IRC log for #sporewiki on 20160808

00:08.31Charles_Bot"Gulf states have set quotas for the employment of nationals, but many companies complain that local graduates lack the skills and work ethic required. “I know of firms that pay Saudis to satisfy the law, but tell them to stay at home,” says one businessman. Under its 30-year-old deputy crown prince, Muhammad bin Salman, Saudi Arabia is planning an
00:08.31Charles_Botambitious transformation, led by the private sector, to diversify away from oil. But it will be a tall order to train Saudi Arabia’s pampered young men to work for a living."
00:08.35Charles_BotOh my
00:09.04MrRankings11Its called the Dannie empire
00:13.57MonetCharles_Bot: It's good intentions. But yeah SA's got a bit of a cultural shift to perform.
00:16.04*** join/#sporewiki MrRankings11 (b85a1483@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.90.20.131)
00:16.06MrRankings11Sorry the thing
00:16.15MrRankings11logged me out
00:16.42MrRankings11Cuz it crashed
00:19.00MonetYou didn't need to post three lines to say that.
00:22.42MrRankings11To l8
00:24.22MonetPosting very short sentences over multiple lines can be an easy way to irritate people on here
00:26.16MrRankings11Ok
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01:31.37MrRajkings11Hi
01:38.11DrodoEmpireHi
01:41.40MrRajkings11So did you check it out?
01:46.01Tek0516Charles_Bot DrodoEmpire: ...you know your Paradox game is going badly when Ecuador is winning against you in a war. >.<
01:46.16DrodoEmpireololol
01:46.25DrodoEmpireCan you link it, MrRankings?
01:51.37DrodoEmpire?
01:55.37MrRajkings11Ok
01:57.08MrRajkings11http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Dannie_Empire
02:05.50DrodoEmpireI think first thing should be to format it correctly
02:05.52DrodoEmpireNo offense
02:06.20MrRajkings11OK
02:06.53MrRajkings11How do I format it correctly
02:07.34DrodoEmpireLook at some other pages in the source editor to give you an idea
02:08.08DrodoEmpirePut "==" to either side of a word or sentence to make it a proper header
02:08.35DrodoEmpireExtra equals signs to either side makes smaller and smaller subheaders
02:09.12DrodoEmpireSo instead of "--history--",it should be "==History==" in the ediotr
02:09.14DrodoEmpire*editor
02:12.02MrRajkings11Thanks
02:12.36MrRajkings11That was one of the main things I was confused about
02:18.08MrRajkings11OK any thing else I need to work on?
02:25.12DrodoEmpirePlenty, but, one thing at a time
02:33.19Wormy_On it like a car bonnet! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-36986089
02:34.19DrodoEmpireJeez
02:35.00DrodoEmpirehttp://spore.wikia.com/wiki/SporeWiki:Fiction_Universe/Universal_Discussion_Board#.E2.80.A2LIVE:_Silvan_Raids_Intensify_on_New_Aratacia - Also, updates here
02:35.07DrodoEmpireWormy_ you may be interested
02:38.11MrRajkings11I am
02:39.09Wormy_replied
02:39.16Wormy_not much, is late
02:39.41Wormy_But the DCP method would be go in full force and cause a bloodbath
02:39.54DrodoEmpireRight >.<
02:39.55Wormy_'night
02:39.58DrodoEmpireNight!
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02:46.45MrRankings11I'm back
02:47.30Tek0516I'm still in disbelief about that HoI4 game. They were be outnumbered to be 5:1 and everything would be over by the two month deadline. Six months later we're evenly matched and I've been forced out of my northern territory. >.<
02:55.18MrRankings11Uh what are you talking about?
03:09.57DrodoEmpireHoI4 dum dum <.<
03:10.05DrodoEmpireAh poo he's gone
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08:07.02Liquid_InkHey
08:12.19GhelaeHello.
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11:05.22Monethi
11:08.43HachimanHello
11:12.24GhelaeHello.
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11:15.51GhelaeHello.
11:17.50Monethi
11:20.19GhelaeSuper-collab progress: http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Creature:Assan
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11:38.37MonetWould the plural of Shaman be Shamen?
11:41.23MonetGhelae: I like the idea of their torsos (and other places) are capable of colour change.
11:42.12GhelaeThat was Random's idea. He wanted expressionless faces, and ended up with aliens that need to go topless to show their emotions.
11:42.42MonetI guess clothing designed to obscure these parts of the body is treated like an attempt to hide how you're feeling.
11:43.13GhelaeA comment he made on the titanpad: "this may have some implications in cold climates, i.e. they may make extensive use of hand gestures and such to compensate for this."
11:43.31GhelaeAnd no, the plural of shaman is not shamen.
11:44.39MonetRight.
11:46.10MonetI can see cultural clashes between the groups who express with their chromatophoric scales and groups who communicate with hand gesures.
11:48.50MonetWithout the proper knowledge, southern cultures could view northerners as deceptive or shifty for hiding their feelings under clothes.
11:52.50GhelaeSounds reasonable.
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12:21.50TreebeardHello
12:22.49HachimanHi
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12:42.31Wormy_Hi
12:42.37TreebeardHello
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12:48.32TreebeardHello
12:48.39HachimanHi
12:49.00OluapPlayerHi
12:49.09MonetHello
12:49.25Wormy_Monet:  You were talking on your livestream about what aesthetics might take over the Ipod trope in the next two decades.  Well there's 3D printing, which is creating designs for clothing and so-on which look like membranes and shells
12:49.27Wormy_hi
12:50.01Wormy_Check this out http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36905314
12:50.05MonetI remember one popular architectural phase atm is/was "blobchitecture"
12:50.47Wormy_I imagine biotechnology and synthetic biology could also shape he future of technology in the next few decades
12:52.08MonetMaybe.
12:52.20MonetThis could end up being some Milan exhibition.
13:00.19ImperiosMonet: "Shamans"
13:00.34MonetGhelae corrected me. I was curious
13:00.43ImperiosA "shaman" is not a "man" who does... sha-related things
13:01.02ImperiosIt comes from some North Asian language I believe
13:01.12ImperiosEvenki if I am not mistakebn
13:01.14Imperios*mistaken
13:03.07Wormy_<PROTECTED>
13:03.35Wormy_<PROTECTED>
13:04.22Wormy_<PROTECTED>
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13:22.32Charles_BotWelp
13:22.59Charles_BotOne of the newsletters we sent out over the weekend was titled "Protecting our Wild Horses"
13:23.05Charles_BotI'm scared to open it
13:23.09Charles_BotRip democracy
13:23.34Charles_BotI'm even more scared to open the responses
13:24.59OluapPlayerWhy?
13:25.10OluapPlayerWhat's wrong with protecting wild horses?
13:26.44Charles_BotIt's one of the things we get the most calls about, usually from grannies who have nothing better to do with their time xD
13:27.09Charles_Bot(There are next to no wild horses in Colorado)
13:28.01Wormy_I don't like horses
13:28.04HachimanCharles doesn't like big horse dong
13:28.15OluapPlayerI don't like horses either but
13:28.17MonetThe only true wild horses are in central Asia. Every other 'wild' breed either escaped from or released form domestication ages ago.
13:28.17OluapPlayerHold on
13:28.29OluapPlayerYeah these are FERAL horses, aren't they?
13:28.34MonetYeah
13:28.56OluapPlayerThought so. I know there is one species of true wild horse in the world but they're not american
13:28.57Charles_BotJust says "wild"
13:29.17OluapPlayerFeral horse = domestic horse living in nature
13:29.34HachimanYeah feral and wild are two different things
13:29.42HachimanBut often get intermixed
13:29.56MonetThis Asian breed is the only breed that is truly a wild animal.
13:30.27OluapPlayerhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przewalski%27s_horse this one
13:30.32OluapPlayerI know them from Zoo Tycoon hur
13:30.43ImperiosOooh the Przewalskis
13:31.17ImperiosEasily the weirdest name for a horse breed ever
13:31.25OluapPlayer>Most "wild" horses today, such as the American Mustang or the Australian Brumby, are actually feral horses descended from domesticated animals that escaped and adapted to life in the wild. In contrast, Przewalski's horse has never been domesticated and remains the only truly wild horse in the world today.
13:31.28OluapPlayerIn short, americans are dumb
13:32.00Monethttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Mustang_Utah_2005_2.jpg this is what "protect the wild horses" trusts usually conjure images of.
13:32.08ImperiosSo like the dingo or something
13:32.46OluapPlayerKind of
13:33.06OluapPlayerPrzewalski's horse is to normal horses what the african wild dog is to the normal dog
13:33.45Charles_BotYeah
13:33.52Charles_BotSo my point stands
13:34.07Charles_Bot"Save the wild horses" makes no sense
13:34.50OluapPlayerOverall it doesn't much. They're just normal horses except no one's taking care of them
13:35.40OluapPlayerThe fact there are enough wild horses that need saving is the problem
13:35.52MonetThe image of the native American Brave on horseback didn't exist until after Europeans arrived and started selling things. the horse-riding brave is a common misconception unfortunately.
13:36.00OluapPlayerThat implies they've been abandoning a lot of horses
13:37.28MonetOluapPlayer: A lot of these wild horse herds emerged during the 18th and 19th century when Europeans expanded across the frontier.
13:37.42OluapPlayerAh
13:37.48OluapPlayerMight explain the large population
13:38.05DrodoEmpireMonet: Well, yes, you're right, but these native nations actually *got* horses well before contact with Europeans
13:38.48DrodoEmpireBecause of feral horses going westward first, and being eagerly adopted by native people
13:40.38MonetRight.
13:40.45OluapPlayerhorses don't need savin        they need explodin
13:40.47OluapPlayerremove neigh
13:41.06MonetYou don't want to see an exploding horse...
13:41.23OluapPlayerAt close range it'd probably be a bad experience
13:42.12MonetWould probably scar you as we're talking 5-700kg of meat (depending on the breed) going boom.
13:42.15HachimanI mean
13:42.19HachimanExploding whales are worse
13:42.48OluapPlayerSure but horses are also fatties
13:42.58OluapPlayerYou'd get crushed under the weight of flying horse meat
13:43.29OluapPlayerflying horse meat sounds like something out of Dwarf Fortress
13:43.47MonetWell maybe not crushed, injured probably, but the point is there'd be a lot of meat that goes flying.
13:44.07MonetThe health hazard depends on the size of the chunk.
13:44.14OluapPlayer[The flying horse meat hits the human in head and the injured part is crushed!]
13:44.49MonetHorses are fatties because they have massive pectoral and thigh muscles and huge lungs.
13:46.37MonetBut back to the first topic yeah, I imagine this "protect the wild horses" idea is more to protect a heart-warming or nostalgic scene than out of concern certain breeds are becoming endangered.
13:47.37HachimanHorses are awful creature
13:47.44Hachimancreatures
13:47.47HachimanI've never met a pleasant horse
13:48.21MonetThey're ridiculously skittish. And can be a pain to handle, but they can also be quite trusting animals.
13:48.52OluapPlayerReminds me, DF actually has wild domesticated horses. Might've been inspired by these feral horses
13:49.03HachimanThe only horses I've ever ridden were either aggressive or fart far too often and shit everywhere
13:49.33MonetThe farting and shitting is a typical herbivore problem.
13:49.42OluapPlayerOf course if you don't cage and tame these feral horses, your dwarves are gonna hunt them for food like any other creature
13:49.52OluapPlayerAnd they do in fact give a lot of meat
13:50.43OluapPlayerDF measures size by weight. The heavier the animal, the more meat and bones it gives. And DF adult horses weight 500 kg
13:50.59MonetThe last bit sounds about right
13:51.11MonetA big draft horse can weigh up to or over a tonne.
13:54.22MonetTake Sampson https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/7b/86/f7/7b86f7503922955e184f119f25140a12.jpg
13:54.37OluapPlayerbig neigh
13:55.01MonetThis titan of a horse was 2.19cm tall and weighted in at about 1.5 tonnes.
13:56.05MonetHe is so far the largest horse in history.
13:57.17OluapPlayerNot a lot of stuff in DF is heavier than a ton. 1.5 is the weight of a hippo or a walrus
13:57.27OluapPlayerI also forgot to mention heavier = stronger in combat
13:58.13MonetMakes sense
13:58.44OluapPlayerDwarves weight 60 kg. Put that vs a 1.5 ton hippo
13:58.55OluapPlayerOnly way the dwarf is, is through combat training
13:59.18MonetMy money's on the hippo biting the dorf in half
14:00.11OluapPlayerA 1.5 ton hippo. Or a 3 ton rhinoceros. Or a 9 ton Giant. Or a 25 ton Dragon
14:01.22MonetI guess for any sucker who signed up for the army would be glad to know that horses like Sampson weren't usually used in combat.
14:01.33OluapPlayerGranted dragons in DF take 1000 years to reach their max size
14:01.52OluapPlayerBaby dragons only weight 6 kg
14:01.58MonetDraft/heavy horses tend to be quite docile and slow for their strength.
14:03.04MonetOh yeah and big horses are also big eaters.
14:03.21OluapPlayerActually that's a reason people don' domesticate elephants in DF
14:03.29OluapPlayerThey need so much food they starve to death
14:03.35OluapPlayerbecause of how big they are
14:04.06OluapPlayerRealism getting in the way of gameplay in that particular case
14:05.21MonetPossibly Saiyan level - there's one horse in Ontario that weighs about as much as Sampson and according to his owner, he eats 2 bales of hay (about 40-70kg) and 75 gallons (283l) of water a -day-
14:05.38OluapPlayerFucking hell
14:06.50MonetOkay more accutately he eats 45kg of grain.
14:07.16MonetThis sounds like a Saiyan-level diet to me.
14:09.13OluapPlayerThe game has sperm whales, which weight 25 tons. And the largest creature period is the GIANT sperm whale which weights 200 tons
14:10.13MonetSo I guess to quantify, this horse is daily eating the equivalent of half a person's weight in grain and drinks 1.6 bathtubfuls of water daily.
14:11.21MonetThe kind of horse that you see in performance shows I think would consume 1/2 to 1/3rd of that sort of quantity.
14:14.36Wormy_I don't know why Tyson misses the huge mistake he makes in his "nation of Rationalia" https://www.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/reflections-on-rationalia/10154399608556613
14:15.17MonetWhen it comes to training I guess like any animal, you have to respect what it can do. In the case of horse-riding you'll have to respect that the beast you want to ride can easily crush you and has a bite that can take your fingers off. And if it wants to lie down and roll in the grass (which can happen without warning) either get off or accept your new life as a pancake.
14:17.25MonetWormy_: Reading the article it sounds more like media jumping the gun.
14:17.53Wormy_I'm not bothered by what the media says, his concept is flawed from the onset
14:20.02MonetIt does appear to rely on Democracy's greatest weakness - that if you want anything done, give time for the three-month argument that will come form trying to get a majority approval.
14:21.45MonetRationalia becomes a place where nothing in government gets done without politicians arguing constantly over whether it's worth it.
14:23.42Wormy_I feel as though trying to base a society on rationality will only create a dogmatic convention and would not be able to move forward from the problems that will create.
14:26.10MonetI suppose in some respects, Neil's not being that intrusive with his suggestion. "Earth needs a virtual country" suggests to me that he doesn't want to replace anything.
14:26.36Wormy_Facts and evidence cannot be spoken about without conjecture and guesswork as well
14:26.55TechnobliteratorOluapPlayer, Hachiman, it took me forever, but I finally started playing my first Pokémon game
14:27.00TechnobliteratorIt's pretty fun
14:28.03OluapPlayerWhich one?
14:28.16TechnobliteratorOmega Ruby
14:28.21OluapPlayerAh cool
14:28.27OluapPlayerWhich starter did you pick?
14:28.44TechnobliteratorI chose a Treecko to start with, but I caught several others already
14:28.55OluapPlayerWhat's your team so far?
14:29.00Technobliteratorbefore it even gave me a tutorial on how to catch them
14:29.06Technobliteratorhold on, lemme find it
14:30.26TechnobliteratorTreecko, Poochyena, Zigzagoon and Seedot
14:31.02OluapPlayerI see
14:31.28OluapPlayerWell I'm gonna let you play blind but I'll say you got good taste for picking Treecko hur
14:32.03Technobliterator\o/
14:32.12MonetWormy_: He's mainly talking about policy. Buuut I will admit that a constitution that has only one line in it will probably be quite open to loopholes.
14:32.13Hachiman>not choosing Torchic for Blaziken
14:32.17HachimanLiterally shit taste
14:32.23OluapPlayer>not wanting based Sceptile
14:32.33Hachiman>not wanting kung fu bird
14:32.40OluapPlayer>not wanting dragon lizard
14:32.43MonetSceptile was fucking boss.
14:33.27TechnobliteratorI'm not sure I'll finish it by the time my holiday is done, but from what I've been told, the main story in Pokemon games isn't that important anyway?
14:33.34OluapPlayerTechnobliterator: I'll just say. If you come across a Pokemon named Ralts, i'd recommend you get it. It's fairly rare and has two powerful final evolutions
14:33.50HachimanBecause it's the base form of Gardevoir
14:34.00TechnobliteratorOh, I'll keep that in mind
14:34.03OluapPlayerAnd Gardevoir is the strongest Psychic-type in Gen 3
14:34.37Technobliteratortbh I've just been catching every unique wild type I came across so far :v
14:34.41OluapPlayerAnd yes the story is not that much of a deal. You fight gyms, get badges and fight the league
14:34.48GhelaeWormy_: That piece does talk about conjecture: people propose policies that they think will be good (conjecture), and then research is conducted to test it.
14:34.53OluapPlayerThe most important parts are the ones involving Team Magma and Aqua
14:34.59TechnobliteratorThinking hey, if it sucks, I can just throw it out
14:35.07TechnobliteratorAh, makes sense
14:35.25OluapPlayerYou're playing Omega Ruby so your opponent will be Team Magma
14:36.03OluapPlayerAnd tbh all these except Treecko are trash hur
14:36.21OluapPlayerYou're not gonna find a lot of good Pokemon early on, except for Ralts, Lotad and Shroomish
14:37.00OluapPlayerLotad for sombrero water duck and Shroomish for plant kangaroo
14:37.41*** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@host-86-158-66-217.spbmts.ru)
14:37.54MonetHi
14:38.25ImpyDroidBack
14:38.28ImpyDroidHi
14:39.30MonetWho cares about the kung-fu duck that needs a special rock to evolve
14:40.27HachimanChicken, and I care because Mega Blaziken is kickass hur
14:40.46MonetKung fu chicken then
14:41.20MonetBlaziken must make some great drumsticks with its thighs.
14:42.28MonetThen again
14:42.47OluapPlayerWell Mega Blaziken is kinda OP since it has Speed Boost. It automatically gets faster ever turn
14:42.47MonetMega-Sceptile has a *tree* for a tail.
14:42.58OluapPlayerBut I still prefer Sceptile from a design perspective
14:43.04OluapPlayerYeah, a tree it can shoot like a torpedo
14:43.35MonetFucking. Boss. XD
14:44.15Wormy_Ghelae:  There's a lot more to reason that just testable conjectures, imo
14:45.47Wormy_And also the idea that everything can be empirically justified by such a manner has to be false, what about more abstreact philosophical issues, like morality and ethics
14:46.57Wormy_Criminal cases where the best available facts are sloppy memories of witnesses
14:47.00Wormy_etc.
14:47.25Charles_BotWormy_ Imperios Ghelae One thing I just thought of: one of Paris' largest exports - waste
14:47.53GhelaeMorality and ethics is the part where the pure idea of Rationalia falls down. But if we account for that by (somehow) starting from a self-consistent set of ethics, I don't see the problem in principle: policy is decided by what the evidence suggests is the optimum way of ensuring that morality is maximally satisfied.
14:48.02GhelaeAnd criminal cases are a different matter to coming up with the laws.
14:48.04MonetActually based on findings, a court system that strongly discourages racial, social or physical profiling could be rather advantageous.
14:48.14Wormy_"In Rationalia, if you want to fund art in schools, you simply propose a reason why. Does it increase creativity in the citizenry? Is creativity good for culture and society at large? Is creativity good for everyone no matter your chosen profession?  These are testable questions. "
14:48.32Wormy_All these questions come with loaded presumptions
14:48.40GhelaeCharles_Bot: That could well be the case, yes.
14:49.13Wormy_A terrible policy that could slow down art projects in schools
14:49.17Wormy_tyrannical
14:49.44MonetWormy_: The liberal arts aren't exactly held in high regard by the more analytical side of the population.
14:49.59GhelaeWormy_: Those loaded presumptions in "is X good for Y" seem to me to be the assumption that "Y" is good and that other things aren't. You're displaying your ethical system there by implicitly asserting that slowing down art projects is a bad thing.
14:50.00Wormy_I think its a real shame
14:50.27GhelaeIf arts projects are deemed to have positive value, then they shouldn't be so dismissed.
14:50.32Wormy_Yes, I do assert its a bad thing base d on freedom and creativity
14:50.40GhelaeThere you go.
14:51.05MonetThe last time we tried to apply cold rationality to architecture, we got Bauhaus and the International Style.
14:51.24MonetAlso brutalism.
14:51.31Wormy_I think that's *arguably* better than some body of people preventing such funding unless their criteria are met.  Because it surely ain't the people's
14:51.31GhelaeSo say you support funding art in schools. Your argument is that funding art... speeds up art projects, and this is good for freedom and creativity.
14:52.19MonetBasically a cold-logic approach to architectural design tends to spawn the ugliest, most utilitarian or most sterile buildings.
14:52.22Wormy_I can't defend my argument based on evidence perhaps, but there is something I can argue about without necessity of it
14:52.27GhelaeThose should be easy to test. Then your policy is implemented in Rationalia. Assuming the people who decide the laws agree with your ethical judgements.
14:53.54GhelaeAnd if they don't agree with your ethics, then they wouldn't implement your policy anyway.
14:54.19MonetOne thing I recall learning last year is that it's practically impossible to create a society where absolutely everyone feels satisfied and included.
14:54.22GhelaeThat's not a flaw of Rationalia: that's a flaw of any lawmaking body who disagrees with your sense of ethics.
14:54.44MonetThere's always going to be outliers, people who don't fit in, no matter what you do.
14:55.20GhelaeA similar idea to the saying "if you try to please everybody, you end up pleasing nobody".
14:55.32MonetSomething like that.
14:56.17MonetThe problem is that humans are so diverse there's always going to be someone who for some reason doesn't fit in.
14:57.10MonetOr doesn't agree with you. And attemping to be completely liberal might just earn the ire of people who feel the government should have some say in how society should be organised.
14:59.24GhelaeCharles_Bot: What wastes do you imagine might be exported rather than recycled?
14:59.39MonetMost of the more benign attempts at inclusivity have simply tried to minimise the number of people who could be classified as 'deviants'
15:00.44GhelaeGiven that you can't keep everyone happy, there is a certain sense in keeping as many people as possible happy instead.
15:01.14MonetThe dark side is it also shrinks the voice of the outcast minority.
15:03.08MonetHistorically societies have often dealt with the deviants they simply can't convert by either shrinking their number so they can forget about them, turn society against them, or discarding them entirely.
15:03.34MonetAtheism in the West for instance was for a long time considered a form of delirium irrc.
15:03.35Wormy_There's a dark side to "keeping people happy" as opposed to "minimising suffering"
15:04.11Charles_BotGhelae: Whether the waste is going to be recycled or dumped, it's going to be exported either way; Paris has very little in terms of industry or manufacturing on planet, and it's cheaper to process the stuff offworld.
15:04.56Charles_BotWhat's going to determine whether it's recycled or not is how cost-effective the reclamation process is when compared with producing the stuff from scratch
15:05.00GhelaeFair enough.
15:05.28Wormy_"Philosophers should consider the fact that the greatest happiness principle can easily be made an excuse for a benevolent dictatorship. We should replace it by a more modest and more realistic principle: the principle that the fight against avoidable misery should be a recognized aim of public policy, while the increase of happiness should be left, in the main, to private initiative."  Karl Popper
15:05.38Wormy_I think this has key points to the whole discussion
15:05.56ImperiosWormy_: HAPPINESS IS MANDATORY. UNHAPPINESS IS TREASON.
15:06.00Wormy_Even something like "rationalia" could become tyrannical in the wrong hands
15:07.05Monetbbl.
15:07.21MonetWe should archive this discussion when it's done.
15:07.44GhelaeWormy_: Are you thinking of things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere_addition_paradox ?
15:08.06ImperiosHachiman: https://pp.vk.me/c7011/v7011590/1bb1c/wmj6IZyNlJM.jpg
15:08.10Charles_BotGhelae: It's likely that the waste is going to be processed in low-wage areas, while Paris is very high-wage
15:08.12Imperioshttps://pp.vk.me/c7011/v7011590/1bb23/Jb1tfHsHZQ8.jpg
15:08.19Imperioshttps://pp.vk.me/c7011/v7011590/1bb2c/FGrynYlmkTI.jpg
15:08.24Imperioshttps://pp.vk.me/c7011/v7011590/1bb35/2MEuqTadbEU.jpg
15:08.28Imperioshttps://pp.vk.me/c7011/v7011590/1bb3e/sII1ETPqVVY.jpg
15:08.30Charles_BotIt could be sent to Sanctarium, for example
15:08.32Imperioshttps://pp.vk.me/c7011/v7011590/1bb46/Qkrl9jJPrkQ.jpg
15:08.44Charles_Bot??
15:08.50ImperiosThat's to hachi
15:09.05Wormy_Ghelae:  Not really, no.
15:09.16GhelaeIt's a strange universe we have where lifting billions of tonnes of waste out of a gravity well, across interstellar space, and back again is cheaper than simply keeping it on a planet. :P
15:11.51GhelaeWormy_: Right. Well, that was the first thing that came to mind when you mentioned "a dark side to keeping people happy".
15:12.02Charles_BotIRL we ship them across oceans to be dumped in Africa, scavenged by African children for useful materials, and then buy the materials (steel, gold, etc) from them, ship them back, melt them down, and reuse them
15:13.32GhelaeEither way, yes, the moral basis of the society can make it a good place or a terrible place, Rationalia or otherwise. But Rationalia doesn't seem to me to make it worse.
15:13.35Wormy_My concern is that a society based on maximising happiness will merely be trying to create a utopian world, which is unobtainable, and would surely cause some people to suffer as a consequence
15:14.56Wormy_As for Rationalia, it just seems to rely on a very justificationist view of evidence and reason, which you know, is my bias
15:15.27GhelaeCharles_Bot: Yes, we do. But sending something across the ocean is incredibly easy compared to sending it to another solar system. Except for in sci-fi like the SporeWikiverse, which basically avoids the problem with reactionless drives.
15:15.35Wormy_And as policy making goes, a bit tyrannical
15:16.14GhelaeSo I don't think there's a problem with your idea.
15:17.11Wormy_I was hoping to read in Tyson's reflection of rationalia blog post, that he's reflect a bit more on his own arguments rather than the media stygma
15:17.22Wormy_*stigma
15:17.30GhelaeWormy_: I still don't see how it's tyrannical. Contrast Rationalia with a non-Rationalia: in the former, policies are accepted if they work to bring about their desired aim; in the latter, they are accepted for some other reasons.
15:17.35Charles_BotGhelae incredibly easy now because we have the infrastructure and the economies of scale that scrap can hitch a ride on a huge freighter along with tons of other cargo and have it be cost effective
15:18.23Charles_BotThe cost of transport is spread across hundreds of firms which are looking to transport their stuff on one voyage
15:18.39Wormy_Ghelae:  I question how are those other reasons accepted.
15:19.09ImperiosWhat is this Rationalia you speak of
15:19.56GhelaeImperios: Basically what I just described: a hypothetical nation in which policy is decided based on whether there is good evidence in favour of it achieving a desired aim.
15:20.02Charles_BotWe also recycle locally, ship used cars and other waste to a scrap depot by rail, take them apart, and ship them somewhere else to be melted down
15:21.25GhelaeWormy_: Are you suggesting that non-rational reasons are going to be better? There's one way I can think of for that to be the case: if you disagree with the ethical system of the lawmakers, you might be able to get [what you believe to be] a more ethical policy enacted via such means.
15:22.19GhelaeBut on the other hand, if you do agree with some of their ethics, somebody else might be able to get a law enacted that is contrary to them by non-rational arguments.
15:24.12ImperiosCharles_Bot: The question is, how expensive is transporting waste compared to reclycling it locally?
15:24.35ImperiosIt'd probably work but only if the systems in question are close together
15:25.10GhelaeLet's take your example of encouraging creativity by funding art in schools. Somebody might argue that true creativity only emerges due to suffering, and make some emotive poetic arguments that convince the lawmakers that funding should be cut in order to encourage pupils to strive harder.
15:25.13Wormy_Think about what you have as a policy: The state questions the role of art in education, suspends new funding in the arts until its questions are met.  You have a board of people preventing others, right or wrong, for pursuing art and the ideas it entails in school
15:25.44GhelaeSuspending funding if it already exists is a change in policy.
15:26.56GhelaeOr even if not, if the government suspended funding in a non-Rationalia, it could well take time for debates about it to be resolved.
15:27.23GhelaeBut in Rationalia, the debates have a clear point of resolution: the evidence comes in. In a non-Rationalia, people can continue to argue even afterwards.
15:27.29Wormy_The alternative isn't exactly irrational in my opinion.  The ideas behind art in education may be wrong, but it is not impossible for the knowledge of how to improve creativity could change for the better, without the need of an authority to base that judgment on some evidence (which is justification)
15:28.05GhelaeThen what does it base its judgement on?
15:28.13Wormy_Nothing
15:28.50GhelaeSo are you saying the policies are picked at random? How are you proposing policies are decided upon?
15:30.47GhelaeTo go back to my example. You say that funding arts in schools is good for creativity. How does the government choose your argument over somebody else's argument that true art requires harship and that we should cut funding in order to ensure creativity amongst people who choose the arts is maximised?
15:31.07Ghelaehardship*
15:31.43ImperiosIn theory, experimentation
15:31.55GhelaeAnd that is the idea behind Rationalia.
15:32.19Charles_BotImperios: Well, if you're talking about Paris: very expensive. It doesn't have the infrastructure, and wage labor for that kind of work is outlandishly expensive on Paris, and it also has stringent worker laws and environmental regulations. You would need to build the infrastructure from scratch, go through a laborious and lengthy approval process tangled in
15:32.19Charles_Botred tape to adhere by environmental regulations, any industrial plant that adheres by those standards will necessarily be more expensive to run and maintain, likely less efficient, and probably needs to be invented (more cost). Add on top of that wage and labor laws, and the labor market. Working in the scrap industry is going to be a step down for most
15:32.19Charles_Botpeople, below their dignity, skills, and waaay too dangerous. So it's gotta pay well.
15:32.40Wormy_I'm saying evidence isn't the basis for accepting ideas or policies, the problems and criticisms of explanatory theories are
15:32.57GhelaeGo into more detail.
15:32.59Wormy_And people contain explanations, which they can be wrong about
15:33.03ImperiosCharles_Bot: In that case, I imagine that could work
15:33.07ImperiosSanctuarium is pretty close too
15:33.19Charles_BotBut what Paris -does- have is -huge- international shipping infrastructure to keep the planet supplied.
15:34.00Charles_BotProviding freight connections to basically every corner of the Gigaquadrantic market.
15:34.04GhelaeBecause at the moment it sounds like you're throwing around philosophy-of-science topics without considering their applicability to the current situation.
15:34.44GhelaeSo, explain to me how your non-evidence-based suggestion resolves the problem of two competing policy suggestions for improving creativity, one of which is to increase funding of arts in schools and the other is to cut it.
15:34.45Wormy_I think its more like we've lost each other on two different tracks
15:35.08GhelaeYes, we quite possibly have.
15:35.16Charles_BotYeah, Sanctarium would be a possible destination for the scrap if they have the infrastructure
15:35.32Wormy_I'm trying to explain why I think Rationalia is uses evidence as a form of justification policy making, have I understook this correctly?
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15:36.12JepardiHi
15:36.14GhelaeWell, I thought you were trying to explain why you think Rationalia is a flawed idea.
15:36.15GhelaeHello.
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15:36.51GhelaeWith the example that Rationalia could support e.g. cutting arts funding, while that wouldn't happen in some non-Rationalia nation.
15:37.14GhelaeHello.
15:38.22TreebeardHello
15:38.29GhelaeMy argument is that, given some set of fundamental ethics - say, maximising creativity and freedom of expression - Rationalia will be more likely to choose the policy that actually agrees with those ethics.
15:39.11GhelaeBecause evidence provides the most reliable means to ensure that a policy has a desired outcome.
15:39.49Wormy_But this is where I think Rationalia uses a very limited concept of evidence
15:40.01GhelaeOkay.
15:40.40Wormy_And worse, an authority that bases on policies on that limited concept.  Which doesn't seem very rational to me!
15:41.07GhelaeSo, what is your reasoning in favour of a wider concept being applied?
15:44.13Wormy_Well, firstly why is it the only "rational" form of policy making?
15:44.34dino82_hi
15:44.51GhelaeIf you can come up with another form of policy making that is also rational, I'll happily concede that it isn't.
15:46.41GhelaeAlthough the main point is whether or not said other form of policy-making is as good, or better, at enacting functioning policies.
15:47.07Wormy_Namely, that progress can happen without an authority accepting an idea first
15:48.18GhelaeI don't see the idea of Rationalia necessarily relying on an authority. An isocracy that bases its policies on evidence seems just as consistent with the premise.
15:49.10Wormy_So why does that not happen already?
15:50.19Wormy_I don't know whether the arts have improved in schooling or not in the the Western world, but I have no reason to say it hasn't.  And it required no radical change in policy making to enact it
15:50.44GhelaeI don't know what point you're trying to make with that question. There are no isocratic Rationalias, therefore they are not possible, while the lack of existence of technocratic Rationalias doesn't make them impossible?
15:51.10Wormy_Not saying they are not possible, just not necessary
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15:51.51GhelaeOh, so is the point you're making that progress can occur even with non-evidence-based reasoning being used? Well, of course it can. That's how our world has worked throughout its entire history after all.
15:52.37Wormy_Yep, and actually evidence does play a role in such progress:  But it requires other forms of criticism too, and guesswork
15:53.56GhelaeBesides criticism of the ethics, and the proposal of policies that have yet to have evidence behind them, what other criticism and guesswork would make for better policy-making?
15:54.58GhelaeAnd how would it make a government more likely to choose the arguments in favour of increasing arts funding over those in favour of decreasing it?
15:57.21GhelaeOr do you think it would change what happens to funding during the decision-making process? You seem to have implied you think non-Rationalias would provide more funding than Rationalia while the decision-making is still underway.
16:00.01Ghelaebbl dog-walking time
16:03.10Wormy_Well, on the latter point you make I could be very wrong:  A Rationalian government might fund art projects in schools for the purpose of experiment, rather than suspend it
16:07.24Charles_BotOne thing to keep in mind about rationality in the political process: nobody has access to perfect information, least of all voters. This applies to historical experience, policy, current events, etc. Voters typically don't have the tools they need to produce or analyze this information and make decisions based on what they think is rational and the limited
16:07.24Charles_Botinformation at their disposal.
16:08.26Charles_BotSo, in the end, you have everyone voting and acting irrationally and against their own interests, in complete ignorance of how the world actually works
16:09.14Wormy_As for choosing arguments, that's where evidence plays a role.  But all arguments have an explanatory nature, the argument that is consistent with observations has content that couldn't be any different (for lack of a better word), so not easy to change.  If it doesn't account for evidence, or doesn't explain something as a rival argument, then people can refute it
16:10.26Wormy_Charles:  I agree, and even academics can simply be wrong, and that's what people in this hypothetical rationalia would need to be prepared for
16:12.16Wormy_*explain something as well as a rival argument
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16:18.40MonetAwayHello
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16:18.58DrodoEmpireBack
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16:23.03Xhomeow
16:23.07Wormy_hi
16:24.41DrodoEmpireHi Xho
16:25.04MonetAwayhi
16:25.59TreebeardHello
16:39.58dino82_hi
16:44.33Wormy_Ah, and therein I think lays the crux of my problem with it:  Rationalia may be no more-well adapted to create good explanations as our current world, if there is no ultimate foundations for arguments.  It claims to be, but that is debatable
16:44.47DrodoEmpireHm?
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16:45.11GhelOn your first point: a Rationalian government would certainly fund art projects as part of their research. But just as a non-Rationalian government wouldn't change its policy when it's still discussing whether that policy should be changed, a Rationalian government would take as its null hypothesis that the present system is the best. In either case, there would be no change to the funding situation while decision-making is ongoing
16:45.39Wormy_I certainly misunderstood that part
16:46.35GhelAs for explanatory nature: I did suspect that might be your point. But the issue is that the purpose of government is not the same as the purpose of science, even when the latter is funded by the former.
16:47.34GhelA Rationalian government is like instrumentalist science: all that matters is that policy X achieves aim Y; it doesn't care for explanations.
16:47.59GhelBut that doesn't mean all scientists funded by a Rationalian government would be forced to be instrumentalists.
16:48.21Wormy_Well what I like about explanation-based epistemology is that it can be applied to more than just science.  But yeah
16:49.57GhelOh, absolutely; just like epistemology in general is not limited to science.
16:50.53GhelHowever, some aspects of it are less relevant to policy-making.
16:53.16GhelAs for Charles's comments: that limits Rationalia's applicablity to democracy (or vice versa). Presumably voting in such a system, if it exists, would have to be on the basis of what morality they want policies to be based on, and not on the policies themselves.
16:57.46Xhohttp://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/f/f1/KicathBodyProgress2.png/revision/latest?cb=20160808165729 Far from complete but it's taken shape
16:57.54XhoMonet: ^
16:58.20MonetWoah.
16:58.39MonetThat's some pretty good texture work.
16:59.03XhoMost of it's due to the material type
16:59.11XhoWhich would be used for metals
17:04.09Wormy_I'm still unsure about the approach of Rationalia to democracy and decision-making of policies being an instrumentalist one.  since policies themselves can compete with one another in the voter's thought process
17:06.10GhelThe evidence in favour of one policy over another might be insufficient for a completely rational choice to be made.
17:06.54GhelThis suggests that the principle behind Rationalia should be viewed as an idealisation. The idea of a one-word constitution is clearly unworkable, after all.
17:08.24GhelIt just means that non-evidence-based policy decisions should be limited to wherever they're necessary to distinguish between possible policies which are not experimentally distinguishable in their effectiveness.
17:08.40GhelIn other news, the aliens are at it again: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2100319-triple-signal-of-alien-megastructure-star-baffles-astronomers/
17:08.55MonetXho: I like the geometric look of the arm and leg msucles
17:09.39OluapPlayeranorexic kicath
17:09.40OluapPlayeralso spu
17:10.03Xhou
17:10.13Wormy_Another place where evidence may be insufficient is when complications arise between rival explanations and so on (not sure how to apply this here)
17:10.18Wormy_gets excited
17:10.19XhoYeah Kicath look kinda mummified
17:12.57MonetI kind of like it, links to their acrobatic origins.
17:13.56Wormy_I'm actually hoping its something we haven't thought about at all
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17:22.33Wormy_bbl
17:35.28ImperiosGhel: So then Rationalia is more of a legal theory than a system of governance?
17:36.28ImperiosXho: I opened your Kicath link, my sis started screaming
17:36.36Xhotop kek
17:36.38XhoTOP KEK M8
17:38.27XhoKicath Scariest Alien confirmed
17:38.59GhelImperios: I believe the term was coined by Neil deGrasse Tyson, so I don't think the concept was developed out to the necessary level of rigor.
17:39.06Gheldeveloped to*
17:40.50GhelBut yes, I suppose it's not a system of governance on its own.
17:41.45GhelThe idea might have been "evidence makes the laws, not any person", but that's not realistic.
17:41.55ImperiosA legal theory that laws have to be made on the basis of their efficiency
17:42.01GhelYes.
17:42.03Imperios...Which isn't so revolutionary if you tink about it
17:42.47GhelThat part of it is something I'm sure most people would agree on.
17:43.28GhelBut what sets Rationalia apart is that the laws have to be confirmed to be effective.
17:44.33ImperiosThe obvious problem is that confirmation stems from experimentation, so it'd be very sluggish
17:44.35ImperiosI guess
17:45.04GhelThe social sciences are also notoriously difficult to perform reliable controlled experiments with real-world relevance in.
17:46.01GhelThe "controlled" and "real-world relevance" parts are sometimes known to conflict when humans are involved.
17:47.10GhelHowever, at least when the requirement is that evidence is obtained, there is a known endpoint to decision-making.
17:47.23MonetImperios: That's one of the things I concluded earlier. Democracy's great weakness is it takes a long time to get anything passed because it has t obe argued about.
17:47.59ImperiosThen perhaps the solution to the problem would be the oldest trick in the book: "commandments"
17:48.17ImperiosDeduce at least a handful of the most important sociological laws, and then apply them
17:48.22MonetSo Rationalia's primary principle involves has to deal with democracy's biggest flaw.
17:48.37ImperiosMonet: Not "debating" as much as "testing"
17:48.40Monet-involves
17:49.08MonetImperios: The evidence will likely still be debated. It needs to be confirmed, after all.
17:49.42MonetThe scientific community has no shortage of shysters peddling fabricated evidence.
17:49.48GhelThat's what I was about to say. In both traditional democracy and Rationalia, there's a long process before a policy can be decided upon.
17:51.01GhelThe difference is that the evidence will come in at some point. People can argue other points endlessly. Only when the evidence is inconclusive - granted, that will happen often - do you need to resort to other means of decision-making where there might be no end in sight.
17:52.41GhelIt's obviously far from perfect, but I've yet to be convinced that forcing non-evidence-based decisions into the back seat is worse than our current system.
17:54.29GhelObviously, the best way to tell would be to try it out and see whether the results show it to be more or less effective. :P
17:59.56ImperiosThen again, the whole Cold War ultimately summed up to "whose economy works"
18:00.07GhelSee? Science in action.
18:11.18MonetWas thinking
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18:12.01MonetSeems the best way to know if Rationalia could work is if the idea of Rationalia were tested.
18:12.04MonetMeta.
18:25.47MonetImperios: Was your sister screaming at the Kicath or did she coincidentally start screaming?
18:25.58ImperiosTHe former
18:26.38MonetInteresting. How is she with Jurassic Park?
18:28.06ImperiosOluapPlayer Xho: Seen the new Shattering update?
18:29.10XhoHm no
18:44.42DrodoEmpirehttp://spore.wikia.com/wiki/SporeWiki:Fiction_Universe/Universal_Discussion_Board#.E2.80.A2LIVE:_Silvan_Raids_Intensify_on_New_Aratacia
18:44.44DrodoEmpireNew stuff
18:45.09DrodoEmpireNative horsemen attack a big mining operation, native civilizations fight among themselves, all that good stuff <.<
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18:48.39Wormy_lol https://www.facebook.com/uniladmag/videos/2341673132522399/
19:13.54Xhohttp://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/7/7e/KicathBodyProgress3.png/revision/latest?cb=20160808191311 Getting there slower
19:15.41DrodoEmpireOoh nice
19:15.46XhoImperios: http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/9/9e/KicathTorso.png/revision/latest?cb=20160808191523 More screaming inbound
19:16.45XhoThe final version will have less polys than the screenshots do, that model has way too many polys to deal with
19:17.43XhoI might change up the material again, that doesn't look metallic enough to me
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19:18.08HachimanMy IRC froze ages ago and I only figured it out now
19:18.26Xhogg
19:18.39XhoHachiman: http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/7/7e/KicathBodyProgress3.png/revision/latest?cb=20160808191311 full kicath throttle
19:18.55Hachimannoice
19:19.20Xhohttp://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/9/9e/KicathTorso.png/revision/latest?cb=20160808191523 Close up as well
19:19.35HachimanHoles in their necks are like nostrils right
19:19.39XhoYes
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19:22.45DanzaDelMondoHello
19:40.51Imperiosmeme
19:40.54Imperiosmemememe
19:40.57Imperiosmemememememe
19:41.05DrodoEmpireno
19:41.29ImperiosXho: Their faces look a bit jarring
19:41.36ImperiosNot sure if that's good or bad
19:41.37XhoWell
19:41.43XhoThey are aliens
19:41.53DrodoEmpire^
19:44.36ImperiosActually I know why I have that feeling
19:44.40ImperiosTHe mouth needs some... decoration
19:45.07ImperiosLike teeth or perhaps something resembling gums or lips
19:45.07XhoMaybe
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19:48.09ImperiosWhat's that with your internet today
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19:55.22Primisbackayyyy lmao
19:55.30Primisbackand rip pink and cyan villages
19:57.23Primisbackalso
19:57.49Primisbackwhat happens if i destroy 3 tribes but ally the other 2? economic or military?
19:59.14ImperiosPrimisback: What was your original Creature archetype?
19:59.25Primisbackherbivorous, social
19:59.31Primisbackfor cell and creature
20:00.35Primisbacksocial creature
20:01.29GhelawayYou aren't going to start as a military civ from a social start unless you destroy all 5 tribes.
20:02.03Imperios^ that
20:02.39Primisbackso what im thinking: herbivorous cell -> social creature -> kills 2 or 3 tribes tribe -> ??? nation
20:03.17GhelawayI think killing 3 would get you economic, while killing 2 would get you religious, but I'm not certain.
20:03.22Primisbackk
20:03.27Primisbackill go for the final tribe
20:04.29Primisbackomf
20:04.32Primisbacktriple rainbow
20:04.35Primisbackin spore
20:08.56DrodoEmpirehttp://emoji.wikia.com/wiki/Emoji_Wiki                                                no
20:09.07Primisbackfuck
20:09.11Primisbackimplodes
20:11.55Primisbackawww yiss
20:13.31Primisback[storytime]all the tribes i conquered or allied are absorbed into my nation
20:14.15Primisbackomf
20:14.25Primisbacki still got friendly
20:15.04ImperiosThen it's sealed
20:15.07ImperiosYou're a shaman
20:15.17PrimisbackHOW THE FUCK
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20:15.23PrimisbackI TRIED TO GET ECONOMIC
20:15.59Primisbacklets
20:16.01Primisbacktry
20:16.04Primisbacka g a i n
20:17.42Primisbackdoes killing babies count as killing tribe members?
20:18.04DrodoEmpireKilling babies is a war crime
20:18.08Primisbackahem
20:18.08DrodoEmpireAlso a bit fucked up <.<
20:18.16Primisbackin the t r i b a l s t a g e
20:18.30Xho"All's fair in love and war and you're all primitive" - Dominion of the Xhodocto, Whenever AD
20:18.31DrodoEmpireYes, I believe
20:18.43Primisback#primandtheexpandedwords
20:18.49DrodoEmpireThey count towards population so it makes sense
20:19.37Primisbackomw
20:19.41Primisbacki just remembered
20:19.45Primisbacki can let them spawn babies
20:19.51Primisbackthen kill them when they grow up
20:20.03Primisback@.@ how did i not know?
20:21.47Primisbackk
20:23.14GhelawayThe actual destruction of tribes has far more effect than killing individuals.
20:24.14Primisbackk
20:24.36Primisbacki'll just bring it /right/ to the edge, then take the tribe out
20:26.22DrodoEmpireReally you should just be decisive and destroy their hut if you've already destroyed their ability to fight back
20:26.28Primisbackok
20:27.55PrimisbackTHE FUCK
20:28.01PrimisbackI KEEP GETTING RELIGIOUS
20:30.49PrimisbackOMFG
20:31.01PrimisbackNOW ITS REMOVING MY OWN CREATIONS FROM MY OWN ADVENTURE
20:36.01*** join/#sporewiki Monet (~Monet47@cpc90522-gill20-2-0-cust960.20-1.cable.virginm.net)
20:36.06Monethello
20:36.07PrimisbackHi
20:36.16DrodoEmpireHi Monet
20:36.36HachimanDrodoEmpire: dat emoji wiki tho ;DDDD
20:36.47Hachiman:P XD :^)
20:37.03DrodoEmpire>.>
20:37.04DrodoEmpireIts infected Hachi <.<
20:37.13HachimanAlso
20:37.29HachimanI saw someone call a Ouija board a Luigi board the other day
20:37.57Primisbackdies of laughter, then his corpse explodes
20:38.32Primisbackluigi boarder - are you green       *yes*       thought so
20:39.57*** join/#sporewiki DrodoEmpire_ (2f36fa72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.47.54.250.114)
20:40.44Primisbackgg
20:40.46Primisback2 drodoes
20:41.33Primisback-someone get me a really edgy song
20:45.12DrodoEmpire_http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/SporeWiki:Fiction_Universe/Universal_Discussion_Board#.E2.80.A2LIVE:_Silvan_Raids_Intensify_on_New_Aratacia - Another short update
20:47.56Primisbackdrodo
20:48.18DrodoEmpire_Yes?
20:48.22Primisbackcan i dispatch some riot control to them?
20:48.27DrodoEmpire_Uhh
20:49.19DrodoEmpire_I'ma say... no...? I mean, they're on a completely different world, in a country where your police have zero jurisdiction
20:49.34DrodoEmpire_And police in riot gear would be cut to ribbons by a horde of Seruni natives
20:49.48DrodoEmpire_Or any Silvan for that matter- especially ones that have a significant number of firearms
20:50.01Primisbackah, ok
20:50.14Primisbacki meant as reinforcements tho
20:50.20DrodoEmpire_That's what I mean
20:50.33Hachimaninb4 burn the kangaroo fuckers alive
20:50.35DrodoEmpire_I know what you mean, and I'm telling you why it wouldn't be a good idea
20:50.39DrodoEmpire_hur
20:51.15ImperiosDrodoEmpire_: I imagine half of the known universe with less stringent sapient rights is screaming "KILL KILL KILL" at the news
20:51.17DrodoEmpire_Hence why the Drodo police (IDMP) in the region are on horseback, armed with rifles
20:51.38Imperioshorseback
20:51.39HachimanHorseback and not armoured vehicles?
20:51.43ImperiosIs there a model of Drodo horses?
20:51.47DrodoEmpire_Probably, but escalation isn't a good idea
20:51.52DrodoEmpire_Uhh, yes, there is
20:52.03DrodoEmpire_The Drodo have robohorses, which they use all the time
20:52.05DrodoEmpire_._.
20:52.05Primisbackeven with portable shielding and lasers?
20:52.10ImperiosAs in, a PNG
20:52.13DrodoEmpire_Oh
20:52.16DrodoEmpire_No, unfortunately
20:52.38ImperiosDrodoEmpire_: What kind of escalation can be spoken of though? You mean, clans uniting and all hat?
20:52.39DrodoEmpire_The robohorses are heavily armoured, capable of going over a hundred kph, and have personal shielding
20:52.54Primisback>mfw you realize you could make your own riot fiction
20:53.12DrodoEmpire_So they're full-on combat platforms, and are cheaper and more mobile than an APC (which they also use, just not here, not now)
20:53.19HachimanAh
20:53.38ImperiosDrodoEmpire_: Do Drodohorses have weapons of their own?
20:53.44HachimanGotta wonder how they go at over 100 kph while heavily armoured and on four legs
20:53.46ImperiosThe robohorses
20:53.58DrodoEmpire_No, they don't have weapons on them- the soldier carries those
20:54.11ImperiosHachiman: For some reason I imagine fucking thrusters attached to their bodies
20:54.22DrodoEmpire_Hachiman: I imagine really efficient mechanical musculature/hydraulics
20:54.44DrodoEmpire_Imperios: Mostly the fact that the whole Drodo-Silvan relations are *very* shaky, and a particularly brash military action could throw the entire region in to utter chaos
20:54.57DrodoEmpire_So the Drodo are trying (and currently failing) to more contain the situation
20:55.20ImperiosDrodoEmpire_: I can totally imagine them playing clan politics and trying to pit their cultures against one another
20:55.27ImperiosHell I like this entire idea a lot
20:55.41DrodoEmpire_The Silvan make up 80% of the world's population, literally breed like rabbits, and can thus deploy armies of *millions*
20:55.46ImperiosIt's been ages since we had that Avatar scenario
20:55.55Primisbackoh man
20:55.56DrodoEmpire_Yeah, I sorta like the whole Silvan idea *for* that
20:56.04DrodoEmpire_I want to do more with them, for sure
20:56.11ImperiosHow many of them are integrated in Drodo culture?
20:56.15DrodoEmpire_Few
20:56.23Primisbacki'll need to give the DE some weapons
20:56.30DrodoEmpire_Uhh
20:56.31DrodoEmpire_Why
20:56.51Primisbackincase the Silvan get out of hand
20:57.12Primisbackie ionic charges, which pretty much disable them
20:57.17DrodoEmpire_There is a so-called "Silvan Civilization Program" where basically, the Silvan natives that were within a certain area of the walled Drodo cities were rounded up, and put in to smaller, walled cities with substandard conditions and repressive production quotas and laws
20:57.33DrodoEmpire_The Drodo have plenty of weapons, but an arms deal isn't out of the question
20:57.46DrodoEmpire_Basically, imagine the Combine occupation of Earth in HL2
20:57.47Primisbackparalization for maybe a couple hours
20:58.04ImperiosSo basically an imperialist form of assimilation
20:58.05DrodoEmpire_But that's a small minority of Silvan- most live within their own states
20:58.06HachimanNeeds more virus bombs and Exterminatus for heresy and xenos hostility
20:58.29DrodoEmpire_Hachiman: That'd be a humanitarian disaster, but it'd be efficient perhaps
20:58.40MonetAlso there are Drodo living on New Aratacia
20:58.53ImperiosHachiman: As I said, I think half of the Gigaquadrant thinks the same
20:58.56HachimanWell not really efficient because holy fuck an Exterminatus is expensive to undertake
20:58.56Primisback[[test]]
20:59.03DrodoEmpire_yeah true
20:59.12Primisbackso yeah
20:59.14Wormy_"Superfoods: are they worth eating?" ..."Take claims a pinch of salt"  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpizBbCEc64 >  comments > "Why pinch of salt? Don't we eat too much salt already?"  "Well, that quinoa stuff is pretty bland."
20:59.20DrodoEmpire_olol
20:59.49MonetWormy_: Watching it right now
21:01.28DrodoEmpire_But yeah, the Drodo are also reluctant to do strategic bombings- not just for escalation reasons, but also because of collateral damage to Drodo infrastructure like highways
21:01.34DrodoEmpire_Especially difficult with the Seruni
21:01.57DrodoEmpire_Which are basically Afghanistan- divided between hundreds of tribes and untouchable in their mountains, even with artillery
21:02.24ImperiosDrodoEmpire_: Was going to say, if bombed the natives could star a guerilla war
21:02.31DrodoEmpire_^
21:02.52ImperiosLike running off to forests and mountains and partisanning the shit out of the Drodo
21:03.00HachimanDidn't know Silvans has gorillas
21:03.08Hachiman#dicksout4harambe
21:03.14DrodoEmpire_And actually finding *who* is responsible's difficult due to the number and fluid borders of all the tribes
21:03.23DrodoEmpire_hur
21:03.56ImperiosHachiman: What the hell is Harambe even?
21:04.02ImperiosHeard that name used a lot recently
21:04.11XhoDICKS OUT FOR HARAMBE
21:04.21Wormy_Harambe for President
21:04.27HachimanHe's an innocent gorilla who was shot at Cincinnati Zoo for trying to help and protect a kid when they fell into his enclosure
21:04.51ImperiosThat sounds like a BLM satire
21:04.55HachimanI bet they wouldn't have shot him if he was a white chimp
21:05.03Primisback*whips 3-headed dick out*
21:05.09PrimisbackDICKS OUT FOR HARAMBE
21:05.11Wormy_I'm very doubtful "it was trying to help", it dragged the kid around a moat for ages and could have drowned it
21:05.19DrodoEmpire_Well, he was shot because he was manhandling the kid and they figured the tranquiliser wouldn't work fast enough I believe
21:05.22HachimanPrimisback: Echidnas have four heads, fuck you
21:05.24MonetI'm with Wormy
21:05.29PrimisbackHachi
21:05.36DrodoEmpire_Wasn't an easy decision for the Zoo-owners I'm sure
21:05.43PrimisbackIt's 2 heads, but the heads are divided in 2
21:05.44Wormy_Tranquiliser would have killed the child if they hit him by mistake
21:05.44MonetHalf the internet acted like they knew Harambe better than its own handlers.
21:05.47HachimanThem racists killed my nigga Harambe
21:05.51DrodoEmpire_Wormy_ So would a bullet
21:06.06Wormy_Hm good point
21:06.26Wormy_Then again a tranquilser doesn't work straight away, and could have enraged it
21:06.30DrodoEmpire_^
21:06.34DrodoEmpire_That's what I figure
21:06.56HachimanNext thing you know, zoo keeper's gonna put the gun he used to kill Harambe up on eBay like what the guy who shot Trayvon Martian did
21:07.04MonetDrodoEMpire_: Yeah a tranq wouldn't work fast enough. Despite cries theey should have used an 'instant-action tranq'
21:07.12DrodoEmpire_>Trayvon Martian
21:07.23Wormy_Nah, I don't think the zoo officials are at all happy about killing their gorilla
21:07.25DrodoEmpire_ayy lmao
21:07.25Hachimanmy niggayy lmao
21:07.44Primisbackso
21:08.04Wormy_Enclosure should have been more secure.  Hell they shouldn't be in an enclosure in the first place
21:08.10Wormy_I don't like zoos
21:08.15DrodoEmpire_But yeah tl;dr the Silvan are actually sorta dangerous in numbers
21:08.16Wormy_Don't mind safaris, not zoos
21:08.20Primisbackwhat was the name of the homeworld again?
21:08.25MonetThat's the thing.
21:08.36DrodoEmpire_The Drodo capital is New Aratacia, its on the UDB page
21:08.44Primisbackok
21:08.46MonetPeople forget zoos are not purely venues to entertain the public.
21:08.48Primisbacknew aratacia
21:08.49DrodoEmpire_*sorry, the Quadrant colonial world
21:08.49HachimanStill think the parents should have been prosecuted or fined honestly
21:08.57HachimanLike, in honest opinion
21:08.58DrodoEmpire_Not the Drodo Empire's capital
21:09.12DrodoEmpire_Yeah...
21:09.25DrodoEmpire_They could easily be charged for negligence
21:10.34Hachimanhttps://media.giphy.com/media/3o7TKP1WQBw0VqGzGo/giphy.gif "You dropped this"
21:10.56DrodoEmpire_hur
21:11.19ImperiosHachiman: Hm. Was tranquilising out of the picture in that scenario?
21:11.32DrodoEmpire_Like we said, most likely
21:11.32HachimanYes
21:11.51DrodoEmpire_A tranq round would've probably taken too much time to work, and possibly enrage the gorilla
21:11.51HachimanIf they used an insta-action tranq, the gorilla most likely would have died of a cardiac arrest
21:12.01MonetThe boy it was handling could have been injured in the time it would take for Harambe to pass out.
21:12.07HachimanIf they used a slow-working tranq, the gorilla would have most likely gone into a rage
21:12.17DrodoEmpire_Damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't
21:12.42HachimanCould have just shot the kid and went "snitches get stitches" but you know
21:12.54Imperiosright
21:14.32Wormy_I don't even blame the parents, even the most vigilante make mistakes.  I'm sure we all have memories of being lost in a crowd or shop for 2 minutes and panicking
21:14.47Wormy_*vigilant
21:15.02DrodoEmpire_Fair enough
21:15.12Wormy_One might be under the impression that the zoo is a safe environment
21:15.13DrodoEmpire_It *could* have just been a really bad accident, it happens
21:15.36Wormy_That's all it is, no-one to blame really, except perhaps the security
21:15.56HachimanHow about the white patriarchy for shooting an innocent black gorilla
21:16.11Wormy_lol
21:16.25MonetWasn't Harambe a silverback?
21:16.51ImperiosMonet: He was obviously transracial black gorillakin
21:16.58Imperiosblack-gorillakin
21:17.05Imperiosdamn you orthography
21:17.08DrodoEmpire_ey laymo
21:17.44Imperioshttps://i.ytimg.com/vi/xx3SrmLWCoE/maxresdefault.jpg He's literally half black half white
21:17.45Wormy_Perhaps it identified as a human and tried to help the child but didn't know how
21:18.17Primisbacknah, he has pants on
21:18.22Hachimanhttps://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13900361_1263807290326930_4256808856807463831_n.jpg?oh=5c3539a0ef05adcdede9a0ba39584865&oe=585EB379 Meanwhile, I found a good pic of what it means to be an Imperial Guardsman
21:18.34HachimanAnd yes, that is The Emperor
21:18.47ImperiosHachiman: Is that Pius? Did he look *that* badass?
21:18.51MonetWormy_: Well I'm looking forward to the internet's reaction for tonight's Eden
21:19.09Wormy_Oh that show about creating a new society?
21:19.09Imperiosbased on the fact the Emperor's wounded and that there's a guardsman next to him I am going to say Pius
21:19.22HachimanThat is Pius and that was the standard Imperial auxiliary outfit at the time of the Heresy
21:19.27Wormy_I'll have to watch the episode later
21:19.32ImperiosHe looks... Vostroyan
21:19.53HachimanVostroyans based their outfit on old Imperial Army attire as far as I know
21:19.59ImperiosHuh
21:20.15ImperiosDidn't know there were actual Imperial Army designs
21:20.22MonetWormy_: They just showed a ewe being killed on national television. The Ewe wasn't providing milk and lost a lamb recently. It was just eating.
21:20.57HachimanMonet: How'd they kill it?
21:21.02ImperiosKind of makes sense since they're aristocrats
21:21.05Wormy_I see, well they wanted meat and waited for the best opportunity
21:21.25MonetYeah.
21:21.30ImperiosWormy_ Monet Hachiman: I could swear the name was familiar and now I realised why. Behold, the official coat of arms of Kenya: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Coat_of_arms_of_Kenya.svg
21:21.44ImperiosThey remember their hero
21:21.45Hachimanhur
21:21.45Wormy_I feel a bit sorry for that goat which ate the spoiled chickenfeed though
21:21.48MonetHachiman: A bolt-gun was fired against the temple to render it unconscious and they cut its throat...I think.
21:22.09HachimanOllanius is honestly one of my favourite characters in WH40K
21:22.29Wormy_Looks cool
21:22.33HachimanAs is Yarrick for obvious reasons
21:22.33MonetIt happened quickly but it was done by vets trained in humanely killing animals.
21:24.53ImperiosHachiman: https://pp.vk.me/c626324/v626324082/1dd67/vGh2sIgG7EE.jpg
21:25.55MonetThis talk of Harambe reminded me of an account by a man travelling to Zimbabwe. This man asked a local what he thought should be done about the guy that killed Cecil the Lion. The local however only spoke two words as a response.
21:25.59Monet"Whose Cecil?"
21:26.12Wormy_There's now some geological evidence that adds credence to the legend of Emperor Yu's dredging of flooded land at the beginning of Chinese history https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P6MrJ86e8w
21:26.21MonetIt's purely anecdotal but it was interesting.
21:26.46HachimanImperios: Tracer's a cheeky cow
21:27.36Wormy_I am totally triggered a male character's arse crack wouldn't even be exposed
21:28.06HachimanWormy_: You've not seen the objectified hunk of a man that is Roadhog
21:28.18Wormy_(I'm joking)
21:28.31Hachimanhttp://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/overwatch/images/9/94/Roadhog_mud.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160210002801
21:28.50Wormy_I think thats pretty forward thinking, yaknow
21:29.07Wormy_Fupa...
21:29.48HachimanHe's also a minority
21:29.52HachimanThat is, he's Maori
21:30.23ImperiosHachiman: I thought he was an Aussie
21:30.35MonetThat's...awkward
21:31.14HachimanNationality-wise he's Australian; ethnically he's quite probably Maori
21:32.21HachimanI mean, his name is Mako and some of his skins reference New Zealand, such as Kiwi, Islander, and Toa
21:32.32Xho>toa
21:32.33XhoLEGO
21:32.36XhoLEGO EVERYWHERE
21:32.46Imperios>Toa
21:32.56ImperiosOmfg the feels
21:33.01ImperiosMy favourite Lego brand
21:33.04ImperiosToa Gali <3
21:33.06ImperiosToa Lhikan <3
21:33.12ImperiosBorok-Khals <3
21:33.42HachimanYes, Toa; why do you think all the Bionicle wear masks
21:33.57Primisbackyou're watching the family learning channel and now angry ticks fire out of my nipples http://thebest404pageever.com/swf/FLC_ticks.swf
21:34.03XhoBecause power :v
21:34.12XhoNot sure what my favourite Toa was
21:34.17Wormy_I wonder why the Moari stopped exploring the seas after finding New Zealand and colonise Australia and interacted with Aboriginal Australians
21:34.18XhoCan't really remember
21:34.36Wormy_* I wonder why the Moari stopped exploring the seas after finding New Zealand to go onto
21:35.08XhoKopaka was one of my favourites
21:37.20ImperiosWormy_: Panda used to say that they were evenly matched with the Aboriginals so there was no point
21:37.52Hachimanhttps://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13876414_1053050511410411_8370997364862683152_n.jpg?oh=404d46926ad743dadd3d51d4d3eba695&oe=58249E90
21:37.59ImperiosMaybe it was just the local climate which was better suited for agriculture and stuff. Actually, did Maori do agriculture?
21:38.02Hachiman"You can see how pissed Trent is"
21:38.06Wormy_From what I'm reading, they never even met
21:39.15DrodoEmpire_Maori practiced agriculture I believe yes
21:39.16Primisback<PROTECTED>
21:39.31DrodoEmpire_And yeah lots of strange stuff happened like that in history
21:39.51DrodoEmpire_I would bring up GG&S but I don't have it with me- it has a good theory on stuff like this
21:40.00Wormy_Maybe New Zealand's size meant they never felt the pressure to go beyond
21:40.01Primisbackdrodo
21:40.21DrodoEmpire_Prim stop
21:40.22DrodoEmpire_I posed
21:40.24DrodoEmpire_*posted
21:40.25Primisbackoh
21:40.26Primisback:P
21:40.32DrodoEmpire_Bugging me won't make me go any faster
21:40.50Wormy_Polynesians had colonised the Pacific islands but they were all small so probably filled up with people, inspiring a sea faring culture
21:40.54ImperiosYeah that's what I said
21:40.58Imperios*think
21:41.00Primisbackoh
21:41.05Primisbacki didn't know you posted :P
21:41.09ImperiosNew Zealand is huge compared to, say, Hawaii
21:41.22MonetYeah.
21:41.24DrodoEmpire_Yeah, and some polynesians regressed in technology, mostly because the local environment didn't allow them to maintain the tech they arrived with
21:42.11DrodoEmpire_Also there *was* an instance of Maori going to other Islands- notably in 1836, where they arrived at an island which was like the one I described and massacred the inhabitants
21:43.11Wormy_Its kind weird how they discovered New Zealand first over Australia in all the thousands of years they must have treavelled
21:43.15Wormy_*travelled
21:43.29DrodoEmpire_How do you mean?
21:44.31DrodoEmpire_I mean, I know Papua New Guinea and Australia had limited proxy contact via islands set within a strait between them
21:44.40DrodoEmpire_But it was pretty minor stuff
21:45.37Wormy_Well its a matter of luck, but they might have gone West from Fiji and Samoa http://imgur.com/83vzS7F
21:57.43DrodoEmpire_test
22:04.37MonetReading you
22:08.51Wormy_British special forces operating in Syria http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-37013583
22:19.22Hachimanhttp://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Creature:Vaxoneons Oh boy, we finally have an alien race of [insert x here]s
22:21.28DrodoEmpire_gud
22:22.02Hachimanhttp://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Creature%3ASylit Also did a bit more work on the Sylit page
22:22.12HachimanStill working on their history before I add to it
22:22.26HachimanRight now what's there is a bit of a placeholder
22:23.04HachimanHopefully I should be ready to start updating Falco's other pages
22:25.32XhoAcolyte Dood - ready to convert pls
22:25.58TechnobliteratorI'll read these pages later
22:26.11TechnobliteratorBoat wifi is playing up atm
22:26.33Technobliteratoroh, fuck
22:26.51TechnobliteratorI forgot to host the fictionverse read day
22:27.51MonetGit back on dry land.
22:28.21DrodoEmpire_Yeah...
22:28.34DrodoEmpire_Well we did talk on about the Silvan for a while, so that ws
22:28.37DrodoEmpire_*was cool
22:29.27Wormy_Hachiman:  Remember this show?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNKUb9BacRk
22:30.48TechnobliteratorI will host it after my holiday
22:31.54DrodoEmpire_kk
22:32.06HachimanWormy_: I do
22:32.15MonetTechnobliterator: You're lucky. As posh as I make myself seem. I've only been abroad...three times in my life.
22:32.24HachimanFairly sure that PC Plum and Archie were gay for each other
22:32.28Wormy_I only just learned Balamory wasn't a real place :(
22:32.31Technobliterator:o
22:32.55MonetNo wait, four
22:33.04TechnobliteratorI go abroad normally once a year
22:33.30MonetI wondered about going up to Cali this year.
22:34.27TechnobliteratorI just love the weather out here
22:34.40Wormy_Used to go abroad a lot more than I do now
22:34.43TechnobliteratorI always felt more suited to warmer environmentenvironments
22:34.53Technobliteratorwtf is with this keyboard
22:35.03Wormy_Was going to Berlin on a college trip but it got cancelled because not enough students bothered to pay a deposit
22:35.08MonetBut I figured six-and-a-half months straight of project work = dude, just chill. Preparing a solo plane trip to California would just build stress
22:35.17TechnobliteratorHachiman, great work on the page :o I always like how detailed you make them
22:35.23TechnobliteratorThis seems rra
22:35.33Technobliteratorreally faithfu
22:35.43Technobliteratorto Falco's work
22:36.09MonetWormy_: I know the feeling.
22:36.09Wormy_Yeah, it is great work
22:38.45MonetHachiman: Loving the armours worn by Cycklos and Atrox.
22:39.35MonetEnjoying the detail.
22:39.41Technobliteratoroh yeah the armor is fantastic
22:40.05Monet(I never really got to know the Sylits, sorry)
22:40.30HachimanIt's all cool
22:41.40TechnobliteratorThe Sylits were involved in quite a bit of stuff back in the day
22:41.46TechnobliteratorBut they had minor roles, and then after Annihilation they sorta vanished
22:42.00HachimanBecause Falco sorta vanished hu
22:42.02Hachimanhur
22:42.10TechnobliteratorYup
22:42.37XhoMonet: This Kicath model is looking quite corpse like
22:42.57MonetXho: Saw your bust upload.
22:43.30MonetCrest is one of the strongest parts so far
22:44.11MonetRemind me how many humanoid bodies have you made in zbrush?
22:44.41Wormy_Weird "x gon give it to ya" appeared in my search engine
22:45.08Wormy_Who the fuck is x and what does it want to do with me
22:45.26Hachimanolol
22:45.27HachimanDMX
22:45.48XhoNot many
22:45.49HachimanAnd by "gon give it to ya", he means, beat you the fuck up with his posse
22:45.55XhoThe Kicath is the first full body
22:46.13Wormy_Uh oh, I must have made enemies with the Hood
22:46.33MonetXho: If you ever get stuck with getting their digits right I'd be happy to give pointers.
22:48.03Xhorite
22:49.16MonetI've decided I might delve into creature design professionally
22:54.47HachimanWormy_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39EdqUbj92U
22:55.31HachimanAlso I am glad that people like the armour on Cycklos and Atrox
22:55.41HachimanBecause I was worried they'd be kind of eyesore-ish
22:56.14MonetNah they work well
22:56.14Wormy_Oh good, Crash Course
22:56.36*** join/#sporewiki Liquid_Ink (79d0cd9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.208.205.157)
23:00.56Wormy_hi
23:02.47*** join/#sporewiki MrRankings11 (b85a1483@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.90.20.131)
23:02.50MrRankings11Hi
23:08.27Monethi
23:08.49*** join/#sporewiki MrRankings11_ (b85a1483@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.90.20.131)
23:08.55MrRankings11_Hi
23:34.15Wormy_http://imgur.com/gallery/8n4l5 heartworming story http://imgur.com/gallery/HoSKo
23:38.12dromMonet Hachiman: After growning extremely fustrated by how terrible the citizen AI in DF can be sometimes; I've been convinced to write up some fantasy fiction.
23:39.00*** join/#sporewiki Charles_Murray (6c380808@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.56.8.8)
23:39.54Hachimandrom: Nice
23:39.59HachimanWhat kind of fiction?
23:40.24Charles_MurrayDrodoEmpire Wormy_ Monet http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:French_Empire#At_a_Glance Thought of this
23:40.33Tek0516Charles_Murray: Two years into this war and I'm still struggling against freaking Ecuador.
23:40.43Charles_MurrayTek0516 : Welp
23:41.51MonetCharles_Murray: Interesting element.
23:42.07Tek0516Current state of the war https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/9EpJgTuN/hoi4_4.png
23:42.14Charles_MurrayMore information to come as I think and make the symbols
23:42.40Charles_MurrayRule #1 of HoIIV: Never fight a war in South America.
23:42.45Charles_MurrayEver.
23:42.55MonetSeems like something other nations could use but I wonder if that might cause contention over who earns what accolade
23:43.22*** join/#sporewiki ImpyDroid (~Anders@95.140.92.52)
23:43.33ImpyDroidHi
23:43.34Charles_MurrayMonet : Oh these aren't accolades or achievements, but rather traits
23:43.36MonetHi
23:43.50MonetCharles_Murray: That's the word.
23:43.53ImpyDroidMonet Wormy_: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/Tok_Pisin_Road_Work_Warning_Sign.jpg The Papuan language
23:43.58ImpyDroidWhat are you talking about?
23:43.58Charles_MurrayThe fact that France won the GXS seriously impacts is strategic and political thinking
23:43.59Tek0516Charles_Murray: It was 5 divisions to 1. It seemed like an easy victory. I wanted to try a South America game, but now I feel like every failed dictator in history.
23:44.08Charles_MurrayHaaaaaah
23:44.17Charles_MurrayImpyDroid: http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:French_Empire#At_a_Glance
23:44.31Wormy_Definitely a great feature
23:44.34Charles_MurrayAnother trait I'm thinking for France is "Disjointed government"
23:44.52MonetFight -against- SA, but never fight -In- it.
23:44.58Tek0516Charles_Murray: So basically HoI4 national spirits. :P
23:45.12Charles_MurrayTek0516 : I HAVE BEEN REVEALED
23:45.16Charles_MurrayBasically yes
23:45.35Tek0516Monet: South American nation with no naval dockyards. Where else could I go? >.>
23:45.53Wormy_ImpyDroid:  huh, sounds quite rhythmic
23:45.55Charles_MurrayMonet : Anyone is absolutely free to use the template, and the symbols I put out
23:46.15MonetTek0516: Dunno. Argentina?
23:46.31Tek0516Fun fact, Peru and Ecuador actually did fight a war in the HOI4 timeframe. :P The contested state is in-game too, but none of the conflicting claims or the conflict itself is. :/
23:46.59dromHachiman: Well. Apparently it looks like it will be a fantasy-verse reboot of the 'Nomatarians' as the founding race.
23:47.10Charles_MurrayWhat else should I have as an important French national spirit?
23:47.25dromExcept everything else, will be inspirated by my experience in DF.
23:47.54dromWhich gives me one question I could need an answer for.
23:48.14dromWhat kobolds and naga (snakemen) do exist in Koldewelt?
23:48.24dromAs in, what kind(s)?
23:49.26MonetWe have kobolds
23:50.20Wormy_DrodoEmpire_ http://imgur.com/gallery/nxk4K
23:50.40dromOh god
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23:50.49DrodoEmpire_ayy lmao
23:51.05Charles_MurrayDrodoEmpire_ http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:French_Empire#At_a_Glance
23:51.14DrodoEmpire_Yep, looking now
23:52.11dromHachiman Monet: http://i.imgur.com/ixezL6g.png Guess thrice
23:53.25MonetIs Jola a man or a woman?
23:54.34dromwoman
23:54.49MonetI spy lesbianism.
23:55.13dromMonet, you've two guesses left
23:55.32MonetOh
23:55.46Tek0516Charles_Murray: jfc. Up to 134k casualties vs 50k now and got pushed back again.
23:59.19Wormy_I love this http://imgur.com/gallery/S15xHRF

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