IRC log for #sporewiki on 20160317

01:19.08MonetI'm somewhat fascinated by Wool Carder Bees.
01:19.51MonetThey look cute when they clamp onto flowers, leaves and stems to snooze.
01:23.34Monethttps://www.lumixgexperience.panasonic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/gallery/Zarniwoop/P1040155.jpg okay I find that adorable
01:25.17The_Randomness:p
01:25.42MonetIt looks like it's made a little pillwo for itself.
01:26.05The_RandomnessYeah, it sort of does
01:26.18The_RandomnessDid you know that there are stingless bees?
01:26.31MonetNot sure
01:26.51MonetWorld make sense though; a bee can only use its sting once.
01:27.52The_RandomnessWell, sort of stingless, they still have them, but they can't use them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingless_bee
01:29.51MonetHm, some reading suggests the whole "bees teir their stinger out" is mostly with creatures with comparatively thick skin
01:30.13MonetThe stinger is more effective and less life-threatening it sees whe nused against other insects
01:31.06Monethttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bee_sting#/media/File:Thermal_effects_of_Insect_bite_by_Volkan_Yuksel_IR001666.jpg and if the left is what a beesting does then I feel sorry for any insects that get hit with that.
01:31.56The_Randomnessyeah
01:32.27The_RandomnessFor us it's a (minor) nuisance (unless you are allergic to beestings), but it's probably bad news for insects and small animals
01:33.38MonetYeah.
02:06.50Monetgoodnight
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02:30.54DrodoEmpireHi
02:33.50ZF101Hello all.
02:59.52Wormy_http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Da_Reckoning#Protectors_of_the_Milky_Way
03:00.05Wormy_Can't believe it took me till 3 in the morning
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08:53.35JepardiHi
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10:45.03GhelaeHello.
10:47.03Wormy_hi
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11:04.35Wormy_It's like a Grimbolsaurian fish http://phys.org/news/2016-03-mysterious-tully-monster-vertebrate.html
11:05.09Wormy_Uhhh  Ghelae http://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hires/2016/56e98c85021ee.png
11:05.53Wormy_There's a bloody fossilised Grimbolsaurian
11:08.14GhelaePanspermia, of course.
11:09.28GhelaeOh, there's an idea. Would reptilian-insectoids like the Grimbolsaurians have evolved from something like placoderms rather than the unarmoured lobe-finned fish that gave rise to vertebrates on Earth?
11:10.42Wormy_Hm, quite possibly.  Their mandibles are indeed extensions of bony plates, and their skin is quite well armoured in parts.
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11:14.16Wormy_Bony plates were an advantage for bottom-feeders, so on the surface, they probably had to change in order to feed on land, becoming more like insect jaws
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11:53.32Wormy_OluapPlayer:  Look at this fossil http://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hires/2016/56e98c85021ee.png
11:53.49Wormy_hi
11:54.03OluapPlayerwut dat
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11:56.52Wormy_Looks like a Grimb
11:57.19Wormy_aside from the tail thins
11:57.24Wormy_*fins
12:01.06OluapPlayerLooks more like a squid to me
12:01.07OluapPlayerSquid Grimb
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12:06.43Wormy_Liquid_Ink:  I had fun with these titles http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Da_Reckoning#Protectors_of_the_Milky_Way
12:09.06Ghelae"The Venerable and Amaranthine Wormulus II the exalted Idol and Father of and for the Delpha Coalition of Planets"
12:10.38Wormy_The well respected and never ending worshipped/honoured figurehead and father of the nation
12:10.55OluapPlayer"The pretty cool guy who did all the things"
12:11.18Wormy_He is no longer the man in charge, but he still the man of eternal respect
12:11.25OluapPlayerHe isn't?
12:11.39OluapPlayerI was gonna ask, why is Lunarai emperor now?
12:12.12GhelaeHas that always been his title, or is it to make up for him no longer being called "Emperor"?
12:13.36Wormy_It is to make up for him no longer being Emperor.  The DCP is gradually changing it's government, but Lunarai will do so slowly.  The DCP people still have great love, admiration and respect for the god-like former Emperor
12:14.20OluapPlayerWhy and when did Wormulus step down? I don't recall any news of this
12:14.26GhelaeI like the idea that the peace at the end of the GXS came with the demand that Wormulus could no longer be emperor, so the DCP decided to obey that demand in word but absolutely not in spirit.
12:15.56Wormy_It's a little bit different to that.  In the Great Xonexian Schism, the Emperor realises the DCP is out of control and is not the thing he founded.  But he is trapped, so that is why Lunarai was created, to put an end to the DCP government when the time was right
12:16.55Wormy_Lunarai stops the DCP's Andromeda campaign.  Now the Civilisation has become more powerful than the DCP, it immediately assimilates all DCP territories.  Much of the DCP's government is destroyed in that moment
12:17.28Wormy_Somehow the Emperor and them lot survive, but Lunarai is now leader and negotiates a truce with the Xonexi allies
12:17.49OluapPlayerSchism stuff then
12:17.51OluapPlayerShould've figured
12:18.01Wormy_But yeah, Wormulus could never return to power for the DCP to remain in the Grand Commonwealth
12:18.30Wormy_I had this story long before GXS
12:18.40Wormy_It's one way to funnel it I guess
12:19.00Wormy_Actually, it's a bit refreshing.  For example, I can put Eclipsos in the same room as the Emperor
12:19.08Wormy_*former Emperor
12:19.47OluapPlayerI'm no longer up to date with the Milky Way's affairs after Project Exodus
12:19.50OluapPlayerI must have missed it
12:20.09Wormy_Well, I haven't actually written it yet :P
12:20.19OluapPlayerIT'S ALL YOUR FAULT THEN
12:20.41Wormy_I started here though http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Fiction:Great_Xonexian_Schism/Inheritance
12:20.43GhelaeThe DCP is all Wormy's fault, yes.
12:21.25OluapPlayerYes, Wormy hijacked the wiki with his super-powerful lanky-leg bugs
12:28.26Wormy_I think the Emperor probably wanted to end GXS at the Milky Way Campaign and not invade Andromeda, but found himself powerless to stop it.  The DCP had become so protectionist it was ready to police everyone
12:28.57Wormy_And it believed it had more power than it had, that it could control the Civilisation
12:30.00Wormy_Yeah, think of the DCP becoming a runaway train at that point of history.  The very order it had tried to maintain became a delusion
12:30.23Wormy_bbl
12:31.06Wormy_awayIt's a bit like how the US and other Westerners thought they could control the economy in a machine-like fashion and it could reach stability on it's own.
12:56.11TechnobliteratorWormy_away, just read your addition to Da Reckoning
12:56.13Technobliteratorawesome stuff :o
12:59.42OluapPlayerTechnobliterator: I was reading Settlin Da Score again and I stumbled into this
12:59.45OluapPlayer"Grak'tona - NO. YOO IS GONNA PAY FER YA CRIMES AGENST DA CROWN, WHICH INCLUDE: BEIN STOOPID, BEIN DUM, WORKIN WIV UNO AND WEARIN A STOOPID HAT"
13:00.32OluapPlayerFollowed by Hagto'Zhl being offended since he uses an identical hat hur
13:00.42Technobliteratorhahahahaha
13:00.55Technobliteratorthat bit was the best
13:00.57Technobliteratorbbl lecture
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13:30.49HachiCollegeHi
13:36.23Wormy_awayTechnobliterator:  Glad you liked it
13:36.30Wormy_awayhi
13:54.28HachiCollegeSo there was a protest outside of my college just now
13:54.37HachiCollegeA few guys in Anonymous masks
13:54.44HachiCollegeAnd like a load of other people
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13:56.56AdmiralPandahi all
13:57.07HachiCollegeHai cunt
13:57.57AdmiralPandageez rude, besides that's you when D&D comes around
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13:58.10Wormy_awayYoutube recommends me a breastfeeding tutorial
13:58.54HachiCollegeWormy, how many times must we tell you not to use Youtube for your freaky porn
13:58.57AdmiralPandaclearly relevant to your needs and interests
14:01.47Wormy_awayI thought going incognito was enough.
14:04.57AndroImpHi cunta
14:05.08AndroImpcunts even
14:05.11Wormy_awayHachiCollege:  Btw, it is one of those weird days when you find a fossil of your own creation http://phys.org/news/2016-03-mysterious-tully-monster-vertebrate.html
14:05.54Wormy_awayhttp://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hires/2016/56e98c85021ee.png
14:07.08AndroImpAdmiralPanda: https://cdn.liveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2015/Nov/28/LiveLeak-dot-com-608_1448766758-1jUc1w2_1448766764.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bdd29e4f46ded42a06&ec_rate=230
14:07.26AdmiralPandado I look irish?
14:07.43AdmiralPandalike, I have no clue what that's about
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14:10.44AndroImpIRA
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14:35.03dino82_hi
14:36.21OluapPlayerHi dino
14:37.44dino82_:D
14:37.50dino82_How is allz dong? Enjoying nice weather as well?
14:38.26OluapPlayerIt's really hot here, that's what
14:38.27AdmiralPandaallz dong is good
14:46.34Imperioshttp://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/072/339/ec4.jpg
14:47.00Wormy_awayImperios:  Deadluest Warriuor did IRA vs. Taliban
14:49.27Wormy_awayImperios:  http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdkwpg_deadliest-warrior-ira-vs-taliban_sport
15:17.50dino82_@OLUAP:: NicE!
15:17.55dino82_Warm weather!
15:19.11OluapPlayerNo it's not nice, it's too hot hur
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15:39.59GhelaeHello.
15:40.03ImperiosIt's pretty warm here
15:40.12ImperiosAnd by warm I mean 6
15:40.43GhelaeThat's almost as warm as it is here. 8.
15:41.34OluapPlayerMeanwhile it's 31 here
15:41.40OluapPlayerYou don't know the true meaning of heat
15:45.10dino82_nice 31! Now that is kinda hot true haha
15:46.37ImperiosWe are all Northmen here
15:46.48dino82_haha
15:48.06ImperiosAlso, it's sunny here
15:48.10ImperiosNow that is a miracle
15:51.09TekDroidSo that's why. It's March break here and our cafeteria has been overrun with hundreds of hyperactive young children all week. >.>
15:52.25dino82_haha
15:56.17Wormy_awaybrb
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16:06.12Wormy_hi
16:06.21DrodoEmpireHi
16:08.55DrodoEmpiretest
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16:22.39Wormy_http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--UHlSJASF--/18dxl8low79mbjpg.jpg
16:23.20TekDroidO.o
16:23.38Wormy_Cyberdelic
16:55.04Imperioshttp://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/4/4d/Andromedan_Light_Seal.png/revision/latest?cb=20160317165434
17:01.05ImperiosOluapPlayer: What hostile powers are there in underground Koldewnewtl other than the Ordnung, the Northern Rats and the MAlh-rththrhrh things
17:01.26OluapPlayerSouthern rats, not northern
17:01.38OluapPlayerAnd there's the Duergar
17:01.50OluapPlayerI think it's those three
17:02.29OluapPlayerSpeaking of the Dwarf Maulers, I ought to update their model
17:05.49ImperiosI thought of making a minor trader dwarf race whose kingdom was once destroyed
17:06.17ImperiosNow I am thinking who could do that
17:06.29ImperiosLike I am not sure if southern rats are that powerful
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17:18.14OluapPlayerGoddamnit
17:18.22dromGoing to hate myself for a while
17:18.28OluapPlayerImperios: Me and Jo are planning a reboot of the Borealis War
17:18.32ImperiosWHAT THE
17:18.45ImperiosHOW LONG WILL IT BE
17:19.09OluapPlayerinfinite³
17:19.37OluapPlayerIn all seriousness, definitely shorter than the original
17:19.57ImperiosThat says very little hur
17:20.08OluapPlayerwow
17:20.11OluapPlayerfuk u 2
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17:21.29ZF101Hello all.
17:22.04GhelaeHello.
17:22.53OluapPlayerStill, you were in the original, so I was hoping you'd be part of the reboot too
17:22.57ImperiosI am just kidding hur
17:23.04ImperiosBut yeah I will contribute
17:23.10OluapPlayergud
17:32.16OluapPlayerAlso in case you didn't get my answers before
17:32.17ImperiosAs long as I'll do what I planned to do: Iovera-Geltastra duel
17:32.23OluapPlayerDuergar are a hostile underground race
17:32.28ImperiosI got that
17:32.32OluapPlayerrite
17:32.40ImperiosAnd the reason I ask is that I thought of making a minor trader dwarf race whose kingdom was once destroyed
17:32.46OluapPlayerYes there will be Bitchtits vs Demon Bitchtits
17:33.55ImperiosI think the Malhrghrhrhrs could do that
17:34.47OluapPlayerJust call them Maulers
17:35.18OluapPlayerAnd I'm not sure about that. They eat dwarves but they're just wild animals
17:35.27OluapPlayerNot really intelligent at all
17:36.10ImperiosRight
17:37.39ImperiosSo either the rats, the black dwarves or the kobolds
17:37.57GhelaeIt would make some sense for the Duergar, who are described on their page as being known to hate and kill other dwarven races, to actually have killed another dwarven kingdom.
17:38.16OluapPlayerYeah
17:39.05ImperiosTrue tat
17:40.38ImperiosCould be both actually
17:40.54ImperiosCould be Duergar setting hordes of Maulers
17:41.33OluapPlayerThey use them as war beasts, so yes
17:42.18OluapPlayerSince you're both here, I'll ask before I forget
17:42.39OluapPlayerWould you call a non-sapient dragon a Kelodhros?
17:42.46OluapPlayerOr is the name reserved for sapient ones?
17:43.58GhelaeI would say only sapient ones, unless the non-sapient dragons are descended from sapient ones.
17:44.28GhelaeMuch like a non-sapient deiwos is not so much a deiwos as an ape.
17:46.45GhelaeA lot of goblinoids and giants aren't very intelligent, and certainly wouldn't be called sophont, but I think they still just count as sapient.
17:47.25OluapPlayerI specifically mean dragons with animal level of intelligence
17:48.12GhelaeSo not even goblin-level. Yeah, they wouldn't be called Kelodhres.
17:48.33OluapPlayerGoblins are dumb but they're still sapient
17:49.02GhelaeYes.
17:50.15Wormy_When I imagine Goblins and Giants, I think of Loron.  Sapient, but just dim witted.
17:50.45OluapPlayerThe Fantasyverse is varied but yes, there are many dim witted goblins and giants
17:50.53OluapPlayerMore goblins than giants but still
17:52.24GhelaePretty much. It looks like they're generally capable of making at least basic stone tools, ahead of pretty much every non-human animal on Earth.
17:53.18OluapPlayerFunny now that I see it. Of the 6 named goblin races, only 1 has human-level wit
18:01.31TechnobliteratorImperios, probably about half the length of the original, honestly
18:01.39TechnobliteratorMostly due to us cutting out tons of filler that was in the original
18:02.20OluapPlayerCan't claim anything yet, we don't have a plot plan done
18:02.31OluapPlayerAlso Jo go work on reckoning
18:02.41TechnobliteratorNEVA
18:02.43Technobliteratorwell
18:02.47TechnobliteratorI have some coding to do
18:02.57OluapPlayercode da reckoning dumba
18:03.00Technobliteratorand swimming training later
18:03.04Technobliteratorbut I do want to get at least one Reckoning section done today
18:03.09Technobliteratorprobably for the Andromeda front
18:03.23TechnobliteratorImperios, if I add that section where the Loron use the Planet Eeta thingy, whose planet should they kill?
18:03.33ImperiosA Tertamian world
18:03.53ImperiosNTA that is
18:03.57Technobliteratoralright
18:04.00Imperiosdo you want a named planet?
18:04.07ImperiosLike something important
18:04.08Technobliteratorsure
18:04.11ImperiosOr a generic world
18:04.29TechnobliteratorIt doesn't have to be anything too important
18:04.39TechnobliteratorJust something that Grak'tona goes "NOT WORFY" and eats
18:20.11AndroImpRight lemme give you a name then
18:20.17AndroImpSomething Tertanai
18:20.34AndroImpGimme a random thing related to Greece
18:22.03Technobliteratoruhhh
18:22.05TechnobliteratorAthens?
18:22.06Technobliteratorlmao
18:22.12TechnobliteratorZeus? Hercules?
18:22.16TechnobliteratorAcropolis?
18:22.31AndroImpHeralannis
18:22.32AndroImpThere
18:22.41AndroImpHercules is Roman not Greek hur
18:22.45AndroImpGreek is Heracles
18:25.24Technobliteratorah ok
19:14.38dromWormy_ Technobliterator Ghel: Finally!!! http://i.imgur.com/wAER8ci.gif
19:15.51GhelNext step: make the text change colour too. :P
19:16.02dromHue
19:16.14dromI gotta fix the funky letters first  however
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19:17.27dromFixed!
19:20.29Wormy_The Sherif's Secret Police Helicopters are circling my house.  But they are blue, so it is safe.  Hardly anyone vanishes.   At least they are not NWO helicopters, which are black.  Probably not safe.  And at least they are not mysterious yellow helicopters, no-one knows what those helicopters are, or what they want.
19:21.35MonetHm?
19:22.11OluapPlayerWormy has finally lost it
19:22.27DrodoEmpiregently removes Wormy_'s tinfoil hat
19:22.31DrodoEmpire...We need to talk.
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19:25.56Wormy_But I don't wear tinfoil hats
19:26.27Wormy_Black Helicopters can scan you through 6 metres of lead.
19:26.31DrodoEmpireslaps Wormy_ upside the head instead
19:26.37DrodoEmpireLike that, then? D:<
19:27.39Vincent20100HEy!
19:30.52ImperiosWormy_: Remember: you are beneath notice
19:31.05ImperiosOnly people with serious power are dangerous for powers that be
19:31.37ImperiosOr influence
19:32.03ImperiosSo unless you become a brilliant scientist, the powers that be won't bother you, at least directly
19:33.18Wormy_Don't worry.  The Sherif's Secret Police are on our side.
19:33.28ImperiosON your side
19:33.39Imperios*YOUR
19:33.52ImperiosGlorious Mother Russia is a different world
19:34.02DrodoEmpireImperios: In an argument with one of these "race/biology determines culture" types
19:34.10DrodoEmpireJust... Wow the arguments are so bad >.<
19:34.37ImperiosAsk him about Mongols and the Chinese
19:34.47DrodoEmpireI might hur
19:35.05ImperiosSpeicfically, ask him about why the Mongols cannot do math and/or be doctors hur
19:35.28Wormy_World Government helicopters steal children for good.  Blue helicopters steal children and bring them back more well behaved.  The yellow heilcopters with strange murals are guests of the sky, but uninited guests, which should be treated with fear.  Be quiet, they can hear us already
19:35.31Imperios*More specifically
19:35.33DrodoEmpireBasically my argument is that geography and interactions with other cultures are the primary builders of culture. Race has little to nothing to do with it
19:36.06DrodoEmpireIn response he just says "yeah well how do people end up where they are?" and "well if geography determines culture why aren't you somewhere nicer?"
19:36.08DrodoEmpireIts just
19:36.10DrodoEmpireWhat?
19:36.34ImperiosGod what
19:36.34ImperiosWhat
19:36.39ImperiosI do not understand it
19:36.43DrodoEmpireMe neither
19:37.18ImperiosBeneficial territory is not actually always better territory
19:37.38DrodoEmpireNo not always
19:37.56DrodoEmpireWhen I carefully explain to him that I'm talking about the *origin of cultures*, and then entertain his dipshittery by saying that a bronze-age farmer has little choice to just run off he says "humans are built for long-distance running though why *can't* he run off?"
19:38.12TekDroid...
19:38.13Wormy_I think it's only fair that I am basing this all on the monthly Lovecraftian podcast, Welcome to Nightvale.
19:38.29DrodoEmpireLike the farmer doesn't have, I dunno, crops, a family, and civil obligations :p
19:38.47Wormy_https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ce/dc/83/cedc83ccbadb9c2a82fc840aa1473faf.jpg http://nightvale.wikia.com/wiki/Sheriff%27s_Secret_Police  http://nightvale.wikia.com/wiki/Helicopters
19:38.52OluapPlayerNext time you see, Wormy will have been eaten by a Shoggoth
19:39.21ImperiosAfrica is actually a better place to live in for a single person
19:39.23TekDroidIt's not like the average farmer has weeks or months of food available, plus the resources to build or obtain a new home in a foreign land
19:39.30DrodoEmpireWell that first one escalated quickly
19:39.59ImperiosIt is just that Eurasia and especially Europe will provide a lot of good stuff for a *civilisation*
19:40.00DrodoEmpireTek: Well the average bronze age farmer was destitute but what he had was better than whatever he could gain by running away
19:40.06DrodoEmpireImperios: Precisely
19:40.11DrodoEmpireAnd that's the topic of discussion
19:40.51ImperiosPut a person with the same resources in Sweden and in South Africa and the South African will fare much better, as proven by the Boers
19:41.00TekDroidDrodoEmpire: By the food I meant more specifically the food required for an extensive journey to somewhere else.
19:41.14ImperiosBut when you want to build a country though
19:41.24DrodoEmpireTek: Ahh
19:42.04DrodoEmpireImperios: Yeah for a country you want lots of arable land, the plant and animal species on which to use that land and somewhere that isn't too isolated
19:42.38DrodoEmpireSouth Africa has lots of arable land, but its pretty isolated (without advance sailing technology) and no real native crops to exploit
19:42.44ImperiosThen again sometimes geography will influence culture
19:42.45DrodoEmpire*advanced
19:42.52DrodoEmpireI say it oftentimes does
19:43.01ImperiosAnd then that culture will also influence the growth of civilisation
19:43.28DrodoEmpireRight
19:43.32TekDroidWhat you have available geographically will of course influence how your culture develops
19:43.53DrodoEmpireAnd how you interact with other cultures with other resources influences culture and identity a lot too
19:50.00DrodoEmpire*Or, how a culture interacts
19:56.08ImperiosAs in for example
19:56.18ImperiosGrowing rice
19:56.29ImperiosRice takes a lot of collective effort to till
19:56.55ImperiosCollective farming -> Collective labour -> Strong work ethic -> YOU DOCTOR YET
19:57.32ImperiosRussians however had to spend half of the year doing absolutely nothing because of the winter
19:57.39Imperios...And we kind of still do spend half of the year doing nothing
19:57.50ImperiosAs Oluap may attest
19:58.54DrodoEmpirehur
19:58.54OluapPlayerwot
19:59.01OluapPlayerOh
19:59.06OluapPlayeryes you lazy shit get to work hur
19:59.16DrodoEmpireNow he's trying to wiggle himself out of his original assertion
19:59.42DrodoEmpiresaying that "genetics have an effect on how well a people adapts to an environment". That isn't untrue but that doesn't say much
20:00.05Imperios>genetics
20:00.07Imperios>adapt
20:00.25ImperiosYou know genetics are the means through which you adapt
20:01.06DrodoEmpireYou know what I mean- "Genetics have an effect on how well a group of people can live in an environment"
20:01.10DrodoEmpireDon't be a smartass. :p
20:01.43Imperios>don't be a smartass
20:01.49ImperiosThat's like "don't be me"
20:01.58Imperios(I am referring to myself here)
20:04.03DrodoEmpireI know
20:05.00DrodoEmpireNow he's saying that, due to things like plagues and violence only those with the best genes pass them on and thus culture evolves along genetic lines. This is, charitably-speaking, a half-truth
20:05.32DrodoEmpireWe know that with the rise of agriculture most people would have the chance to marry and have children- passing on their "mediocre" genes to the next generation
20:06.13Imperios''mediocre''
20:06.47ImperiosPretty much, not to mention the social stratification
20:06.49DrodoEmpireI use that term cautiously, to basically mean those that aren't geniuses or outstandingly strong
20:07.10DrodoEmpireThis always happened. The occasional plague would wipe out some of the worse-off genetically but other types of disasters- such as war and floods were indiscriminate on genetics
20:07.12ImperiosNo, I just copied the word to make a Mad Max reference hur
20:07.15DrodoEmpireAhh
20:07.57DrodoEmpireWe know that this genetic proliferation never brought about the end of civilizations, not it alone
20:08.14DrodoEmpireA lack of genetic immunity spelled doom for a lot of American civilizations
20:08.39DrodoEmpireThough the Europeans were also lucky because they arrived during times of strife already within these civilizations, making them more vulnerable
20:08.43ImperiosPRetty much
20:09.07DrodoEmpireThe Incas were in the midst of a devastating civil war when the Spaniards arrived, for example
20:09.36DrodoEmpireAnd the discontent among vassal city states was already at a boiling point when Cortes arrived
20:10.10DrodoEmpireEither way, genetics *does* have some small role but in all but the most dramatic examples its almost irrelevant
20:14.23ZF101So long guys.
20:17.59*** join/#sporewiki Hachiman (5aff3bd2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.255.59.210)
20:18.05HachimanHi
20:18.20DrodoEmpireHi
20:18.25GhelHi
20:18.30OluapPlayerhi
20:19.15Wormy_hello
20:23.36Monethello
20:37.08ImperiosHi Hachi
20:41.03*** join/#sporewiki Xho (97e0b21a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.224.178.26)
20:42.13OluapPlayerspoon
20:42.16Xhoey b0ss
20:44.27Hachimangibe de pusi pls
20:44.50Xhooh mai
20:45.00XhoWell, a sparkle of an idea has entered my mind
20:45.02XhoAbout a life choice
20:45.30OluapPlayerchoose which one of the hostages dies next
20:45.33Xhou
20:45.56HachimanIf you're gonna remark on that new recommended alcohol units thing
20:46.29XhoNo
20:46.30XhoBut go on
20:46.47XhoNah I was thinking about possibly going to Japan to teach English
20:47.07HachimanOh
20:47.11HachimanThat would be interesting
20:47.12OluapPlayerXho the teacher
20:47.15OluapPlayerThat can't end well
20:47.22XhoB-BAKA
20:51.13Xho" it might be better to ask EA"
20:51.18Xhonigga do u want a game or not
21:05.46OluapPlayerbah boring day
21:07.49Xhou
21:08.32OluapPlayerfix dis
21:09.43HachimanHm
21:09.50HachimanI wonder if fat elves are a thing in the Fantasyverse
21:11.19HachimanLike I know elves are naturally spindly and lithe but then obesity can happen to humans who have a similar physiology to elves
21:13.05OluapPlayerAn obese elf would probably be slimmer than an obese human, but they'd still look fat
21:13.18GhelI don't see why it couldn't happen.
21:13.51GhelAlthough if an Erylia Elf gets overweight and decides they don't like it, they shouldn't find it too difficult to burn calories.
21:14.10HachimanFucking wow
21:14.28OluapPlayerOh god
21:29.43dromAs a Programmer.
21:29.58dromI don't know how to comment on that "Revival" game idea.
21:31.46ImperiosSpeaking of Deiwos
21:31.53ImperiosXho Hachiman OluapPlayer: http://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Creature:T%27zukartu#Friendly Dorfs
21:31.59Imperiosoh wait wrong link
21:32.01Imperioshttp://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Creature:T%27zukartu there
21:32.14OluapPlayerdem cheeks
21:32.16HachimanHis fucking face
21:32.38HachimanJewish dwarves
21:32.39XhoImperios: chop fukkin suey
21:32.56ImperiosHachiman: Armenian actually, but then again most Jewish stereotypes apply to Armenians
21:33.24ImperiosAlso yes look at their relationships
21:33.25ImperiosIs that okay
21:33.53*** join/#sporewiki The_Randomness (~chatzilla@2601:441:0:6:3425:b044:d55:aa79)
21:33.53*** mode/#sporewiki [+o The_Randomness] by ChanServ
21:34.05The_RandomnessHello
21:34.11OluapPlayerI'm not there yet calm your boobs
21:34.13OluapPlayerrandum
21:34.25Hachiman>Everybody's going to the party, have a real good time.
21:34.32HachimanIs that a fucking System of a Down reference
21:34.39HachimanIs that because the main vocalist is Armenian
21:35.19HachimanOh my God
21:35.55HachimanYOU HAVE SERJ TARAKIAN DWARVES
21:36.14ImperiosYes
21:36.36HachimanOkay now I see why you asked if their relations were okay hur
21:36.48HachimanI like them anyway, quite unique
21:36.54OluapPlayerYeah they seem good
21:37.05OluapPlayerAnd the race itself is pretty cool
21:37.11HachimanI like new flavours added to dwarves
21:37.12OluapPlayerCame out of nowhere too
21:37.21OluapPlayer>Imp making full pages in one day
21:37.23OluapPlayerend times are here
21:37.55ImperiosI was inspired by you making humans
21:39.26HachimanThe Khargrim probably find them very odd
21:39.43dromWhat's the name of that macho stronk guy who always wears a grey stylish suit?
21:39.52OluapPlayerThe Kyrsacov probably find them an ugly kind of cute
21:39.57HachimanGonna have to be more descriptive drom
21:39.59dromIn the american "professional wrestling" something
21:40.02OluapPlayerLike a pug
21:40.06OluapPlayerThe pugs of dwarvenkind
21:40.18HachimanI thought Kyrsacov were the pugs of dwarvenkind hur
21:40.43ImperiosPug dwarves that speak in System of a Down quotations
21:40.52HachimanMuch like autistic people irl
21:41.49Imperioslike urself
21:42.05HachimanExcept I don't listen to SOAD hur
21:42.22HachimanMaybe I did once
21:42.38OluapPlayerI don't know what that is
21:42.48OluapPlayerAlso I quoted T'zuzus
21:43.33ImperiosThxs
21:43.33Hachimanolol Clamak's quote
21:43.47ImperiosI thought Xho liked them
21:44.13ImperiosSoaD that is is
21:44.14XhoI do
21:44.18dromHachiman: That old man who both gets amazed and aroused by a very buff man flexing, used for "x masterrace" gifs.
21:45.35dromOh Vince McMahon
21:45.55*** join/#sporewiki Tybusen (8036b3eb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.54.179.235)
21:46.09GhelHello.
21:46.15ImperiosHi
21:46.22Imperioshttp://spore.wikia.com/wiki/Creature:T%27zukartu Take a look
21:46.25TybusenHello
21:46.56OluapPlayerSince we're posting what we did today, http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/0/01/M%C3%A0lh-Thaduorn.png I updated this model
21:49.58drom<PROTECTED>
21:50.09Xholel
21:50.09OluapPlayerEh?
21:50.24Monet<PROTECTED>
21:52.04dromno, my face when I read the "Revival" game thread and I see no mention of programming
21:52.46OluapPlayerThis is just an idea being tossed around by a bunch of internet strangers, it's not like we plan to get it done immediately
21:55.07MonetI think what Drom means is we haven't even touched on how we can script the game to work
21:55.39OluapPlayerWe don't even know if we're doing it at all yet
21:58.14ImperiosI did not see the game thread yet
21:58.19ImperiosDid it revert to retardation or something
21:58.33OluapPlayerNo? What makes you assume that
21:58.52TybusenI don't even know if we've decided on a direction that the game is going to go
21:59.03OluapPlayerImperios: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdxynV2XEAAGZQ4.jpg
21:59.04TybusenAnd design has to come before the programming
21:59.23Imperiosdrom's comments
21:59.36ImperiosWhat happened there hur
21:59.36MonetTybusen: We're considering an RPG but so far we have eyt oto decide if turn-based or real-time
21:59.48OluapPlayerNothing. His comments are random or something
22:00.04OluapPlayerThe thread's only discussion was how we'd have to remove references to Spore and EA
22:00.18TybusenMonet: From my limited experience as a programmer, I'd think a turn-based RPG is probably easier to implement than real-time
22:01.13OluapPlayerI myself am not taking any serious stance in the idea until/if I actually learn how to make videogames
22:01.18TybusenBut still, it's fine if we haven't decided on implementation yet since design always comes before implementation
22:01.27dromWhen discussion design, discussing about how to IMPLEMENT it is also a good way to go.
22:01.33dromdiscussing even
22:02.06TybusenTrue, we should take into consideration implementation when considering design, but nothing can be implemented if it hasn't been designed yet
22:02.19OluapPlayerHold on I posted the pic to the wrong person
22:02.20OluapPlayerShit
22:02.21OluapPlayerXho: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdxynV2XEAAGZQ4.jpg
22:02.51Xhowow
22:04.03MonetWe have programmers, artists, I guess we need organisation, a direction and understanding of how we're coding this thing
22:04.14Tybusendrom: Since you're a more experienced programmer than I, I've read in a lot of places that C++ is a great language for building games from scratch, though I'm curious as to why Java isn't as good as C++, other than perhaps the extra overhead from Java being an interpreted language
22:04.39dromJava uses lot of overhead, so does C# as well
22:05.15dromC++ is more runtime-efficient because the overhead is rather produced from how you implement your design/algorithms.
22:05.43TybusenSo the overhead is the actual thing holding back a language like Java then?
22:06.13dromProductivity however, is sometimes unpredictable because it can sometimes produce errors that take days to solve. Be it a missing semi-colon or a plus (+) where it is supposed to be a minus (-).
22:06.30dromJava is fuck-ton slow to boot up as well.
22:07.06TybusenI know Minecraft is Java-based but I've heard that they're going to try to move to a C++ engine for Windows 10 versions
22:07.51dromRunning a Java applet runs the runtime library first, then it loads the entire applet into memory.
22:07.52The_RandomnessI don't know about that, but this isn't saying that you can't make games with good performance in languages like Java
22:08.31dromWell yeah. Java can be performance-efficient, but takes long time to load and can be sometimes a hassle.
22:08.45The_RandomnessAlso, with Java you don't need to worry about compatibility issues (most of the time), since it runs the same way on all machines
22:08.49dromAlso, I believe TekDroid knows better than me, becuase he has worked with Java more than me.
22:08.58TybusenOh, I know that there can be good Java-based games (Minecraft being an example, I guess), I've just heard a lot of people say that C++ is better for performance
22:09.28TybusenI feel like I know enough about Java that I could probably make a proof-of-concept turn-based RPG given some time
22:09.31The_RandomnessC++ is better for performance, but you need to make sure that you do everything right along the way.
22:09.34dromC++ is best of performance because it skips overhead an other features such as "Garbage Collection".
22:09.42dromWhat Random says.
22:09.42TekDroidWhat's going on?
22:09.52The_Randomnessugh, languages without garbage collection
22:09.54The_RandomnessI'm sick of C
22:10.03TybusenA discussion on the relative advantages of programming languages for game development
22:10.05dromHeh, I love C/C++
22:10.11TybusenC is garbage
22:10.13dromA hassle to debug however.
22:10.14TybusenI hate it
22:10.31The_RandomnessI'm tired of having to deal with all of this low-level nonsense, at least C++ is tolerable
22:10.34AndroImpPython?
22:10.38The_Randomnesslol
22:10.45dromPython?
22:10.47dromWhat are you?
22:10.51Tybusenprogramming "language"
22:10.57The_RandomnessPython is really bad for big programs iirc
22:11.05TekDroidLower level stuff is of course typically the most efficient.
22:11.14TybusenPython is supposed to be a scripting language, so it can't really handle anything big
22:11.21AndroImpJust wondering
22:11.30AndroImpI only know basic python hur
22:11.37The_RandomnessBut that comes at a cost, you need to be able to make sure that everything you produce is correct, and does not have performance issues itself
22:11.47The_RandomnessWhile with languages like Java the backend is handled for you
22:11.49AndroImpSo right what do you suggest
22:11.52dromThe_Randomness Tybusen: Keep in mind that back when DOS computers were the top-notch technology you could had. People had to program in ASM
22:12.01The_RandomnessASM?
22:12.07dromAssembly
22:12.07TybusenAssembly I think
22:12.10The_Randomnessech
22:12.11TekDroidI have a course right now programming in Assembly
22:12.26The_RandomnessI'd say C++ or Java myself
22:12.32dromThe lowest language possible for humans above pure binary and hexadecimal.
22:12.33TekDroidWell half assembly, but now we're shifting to mostly C.
22:12.39AndroImpC works
22:12.49dromI'd say, fuck Java
22:12.52dromC++ stronk
22:12.52The_RandomnessThere's a big distinction between C and C++
22:12.59AndroImpHow different are C# and C++ BTW?
22:12.59TekDroidDrom: And sometimes its half binary and hex anyway. :P
22:13.00The_RandomnessC is a braindead language zzz
22:13.06TybusenJava is sooooo much easier to use from a dev standpoint though
22:13.17dromThe_Randomness: how so?
22:13.38dromBecuase you've to char* text = (char*)malloc(sizeof(char*))?
22:13.43The_Randomness...
22:13.46The_Randomnessno, more than that
22:14.04dromExplain
22:14.08TekDroidLanguages like C are best when you really want efficiency and speed, while higher level is easier to progrma and debug.
22:14.27Tybusendrom: Actually, that should be sizeof(char), otherwise you're getting data the size of a char pointer :U
22:14.28TekDroid*program
22:14.29The_RandomnessDebugging is a nightmare, I need to do memory management myself, and it's just frustrating to use
22:14.33The_RandomnessNot that I'm bad with C
22:14.42The_RandomnessI'm just tired of using it
22:14.45dromTybusen: Yeah, my mistake.
22:14.58The_RandomnessIPC is pure hell
22:15.04AndroImpI can be your debugging slave hue
22:15.10dromThe_Randomness: Beware the segament faults
22:15.15TybusenStill, I'd honestly use Java over C unless I had to use C just because C is a nightmare from a developer standpoint
22:15.26AndroImpIt is not like my programming is worth anything
22:15.27The_Randomnesssegfaults aren't even the worst things
22:15.37AndroImpJava could work
22:15.37The_RandomnessIt's trying to make things work the way I want
22:15.38TybusenNo garbage collection, extremely finicky error handling
22:15.45TekDroidThe_Randomness: Like I said, we're doing a real-time systems course working with hardware programming in assembly and C. Help.
22:15.46AndroImp...As if I know anything about Java hur
22:15.51The_RandomnessI'd say Java
22:16.02The_RandomnessTekDroid: Yeah, I know, I've taken a similar class myself
22:16.02AndroImpAlso guys I know none of you probably know much about that branch of programming
22:16.02dromThe_Randomness: How about you invoke an BSoD with a dangling reference pointer in C?
22:16.10TekDroidJava is my most knowledgeable language
22:16.15The_RandomnessI don't know how to do that drom
22:16.23AndroImpBut what about a mobile game?
22:16.30AndroImpWould fit a smaller format much better
22:16.33TekDroidAndroImp: What OS?
22:16.38AndroImpAndroid
22:16.43AndroImpANDROID MASTER RACE
22:16.45TybusenI can do a lot more with Java just because I'm much much better with how Java's objects work than any of that C shit
22:16.51AndroImpJUST MASTER RACE THINGS
22:16.52TekDroidPretty sure Android runs on a variant of Java.
22:17.01TybusenAndroid uses Java
22:17.20The_RandomnessBut for my OS class it was pure pain to figure out how to get even a simple chat server-like program to work properly because of the IPC and whatnot it requires
22:17.21dromThe_Randomness: I believe it was to do improper malloc shit and point at a randomn memory address and fill the data with zeros until the entire operative system crashes.
22:17.21AndroImpSweet
22:17.24AndroImpJava it is then
22:17.33TekDroidFor mobile devices it's limited.
22:17.37AndroImp^ That is how stupid I am
22:18.04Xhohttp://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/spore/images/6/6d/KhaadunProgress4.png/revision/latest?cb=20160317221737 Now with the first bit of the helmet
22:18.24TybusenAnd I'd think that the extra overhead from Java isn't a significant problem unless the game you have in mind is really going to push hardware limits
22:18.25The_RandomnessIf I had a choice I would do all of my programming in something like Ocaml or Haskell, because I want to get away from this low-level nonsense
22:19.06dromBut do Ocaml and Haskell have graphical computing and rendering libraries?
22:19.09AndroImpXho: Khaal Dunrogo
22:19.15OluapPlayerkhaaaaaaaaaaaa
22:19.21dromI've never heard of it
22:19.24OluapPlayerAlso looks like a corpse
22:19.24TekDroidThe_Randomness: Oh, and my real-time systems course is so bad that of the 60 students in it only 26 of us passed the midterm. >.>
22:19.29The_Randomnesslol
22:19.39XhoOluapPlayer: Well he's only half alive at the most
22:19.42The_RandomnessI would presume they do, but I haven't looked into it myself
22:19.45dromHahah
22:19.46dromhttps://wiki.haskell.org/OpenGL
22:19.48OluapPlayerhalf-alive
22:19.49dromOh wow
22:19.50OluapPlayerdats not a thing
22:19.58XhoKhaadun - siqis'shazun says stfu
22:20.00dromHaskell does actually have OpenGL
22:20.07OluapPlayeru bullshi
22:20.14TybusenI could probably actually recreate a Pokemon game using Java if I had the time and interest
22:20.19The_RandomnessHaskell is a beautiful language, and I'm going to learn it this summer
22:20.55XhoI had this idea that the more Khaadun kills the more his state of being starts to traverse over to a ghostly kind of form
22:21.15XhoLike the armour he wears starts to sap out his soul
22:21.43TekDroidI really need to learn some databases or networking programming experience soon. Been trying to find a co-op job lately and I swear 90% of them asked for it.
22:22.04dromThe_Randomness Tybusen TekDroid: C# is the most beautiful language I know.
22:22.24TekDroidI don't actually know C# or C++
22:22.28The_RandomnessI have no experience in C#, so I can't say anything
22:22.32TybusenI don't know if this is correct or not but I think C# is not as portable as Java?
22:22.44TybusenI also have zero knowledge about C# as a language
22:22.45The_RandomnessYeah, C# is not as portable as Java
22:22.50AndroImpThey follow different designs
22:23.00AndroImp<PROTECTED>
22:23.05AndroImpDunno about Java
22:23.08dromDepends on the runtime library you compile against
22:23.10AndroImpActually what Java is about
22:23.15AndroImpis Java even
22:23.16TybusenJava is object-oriented
22:23.21dromIf you compile against .NET then you are restricted to Windows
22:23.25TybusenJava's all about objects and classes
22:23.27AndroImpRight so not so different then
22:23.27The_RandomnessImp, how much experience do you even have with programming?
22:23.36AndroImpThe_Randomness: NOOOONE
22:23.43TybusenIIRC C# was kind of designed to be similar to Java
22:23.46AndroImpSeriously though
22:23.49dromIf you compile against to Mono, then you can compile for Linux, OSX and Windows.
22:23.55The_Randomnessah, alright
22:23.55AndroImpSome C# and C
22:24.04AndroImpThat is it
22:24.16AndroImpDo not take me seriously, I am not a specialist
22:24.18dromC# pretty much Java, except it is cleaner
22:24.36dromAnd uh, more related to C++ than how Java does.
22:24.39TybusenCleaner in what sense?
22:25.27AndroImpThe_Randomness: Programming in my course is an auxiliary course - it IS essential to our studies but not our main thing
22:25.30dromGood question. I was hasty with the conclusion. But I found out that it does proper GC
22:25.59AndroImpMost of the programming I know involves changing one pile of text into another pile of text
22:26.07AndroImpFor which Python is somewhat useful
22:26.18dromPLAGARISM
22:27.03dromAndroImp: Let me remind you about this: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1c/c3/4e/1cc34e4e0aaeff76484b3ae963bfc701.jpg
22:27.25The_RandomnessI'm personally a big fan of functional programming
22:28.08AndroImpUnless your game will have something language-related I won't be of much use
22:28.56AndroImpLike parsing player-written text into something understandable by NPCs
22:29.04dromThe_Randomness: That's like "void some_function(struct some_s, int some_int_1, int some_int_2)?"
22:29.16AndroImpWhich, while novel in a sense, will not be useful in a game
22:29.18The_Randomnessnope
22:29.24The_RandomnessLike, functional programming languages
22:29.41AndroImpAs in operating through functions
22:29.59AndroImpNow sorry for a dumb question but that is like C for example
22:30.03The_Randomness........
22:30.08The_RandomnessNo
22:30.13AndroImp^^dumb
22:30.14The_RandomnessC is an imperative language
22:30.17AndroImpRight
22:30.24AndroImpEnlighten me plz
22:30.40The_RandomnessI'm talking about things like Haskell. You cannot change the state of variables.
22:30.48dromThere is D
22:30.55The_RandomnessEverything is done by applying functions to arguments
22:31.02AndroImpOh right
22:31.06AndroImpI get it now
22:31.15AndroImpSorry, I am no specialist hur
22:32.18The_RandomnessIt's fine
22:32.38The_RandomnessSo, a decent analogy for functional vs imperative programming is, let's say you're making a garden.
22:33.40The_RandomnessYou can go through a ton of effort and make a mess in your yard digging stuff up and whatnot, which ultimately changes the state of your yard. This is stuff like C, Java, etc.
22:34.05The_RandomnessOr you can put a lot of effort into getting the materials and plans together for your garden, then putting it together that way
22:34.22The_RandomnessThat is sort of what functional languages are like
22:34.40AndroImpI am not *that* dumb hur
22:34.46The_RandomnessI could go further into this, but it's ultimately uninteresting
22:34.54AndroImpRight got you
22:35.19The_RandomnessI wanted to emphasize the point that they're based on entirely different principles
22:35.39The_RandomnessAnd both have their advantages and disadvantages
22:36.19AndroImprite
22:50.18XhoI just realised that Khaadun's hair colour is incorrect in that image
22:50.44OluapPlayeru fuked up
22:51.52XhoHis hair colour is a pearlescent blonde
22:51.54XhoVerging on white
22:52.58dromThe_Randomness Tybusen TekDroid AndroImp: http://www.csee.umbc.edu/courses/331/fall10/images/languageFans.jpg
22:53.55The_Randomnesslol
22:54.45TybusenI can only speak to the Java and C boxes but tbh that feels about right
22:54.47The_RandomnessHow old is Lisp now anyway?
22:55.24dromOlder than C
22:55.32TybusenYikes
22:55.37The_RandomnessI know that :p
22:55.45dromBorn 1958
22:55.55dromThe first form of LISP emerged 1958
22:56.08dromSome say that people even tried programming AIs in LISP
22:56.36dromGod, no wonder why the mental asylums were full of insane
22:56.46The_RandomnessI'm pretty sure Lisp is still used in that area
22:57.48dromThe_Randomness Tybusen TekDroid AndroImp: http://bjorn.tipling.com/if-programming-languages-were-weapons
22:58.58The_RandomnessI remember seeing a vehicle version of that once
22:59.52dromThere are few iterations of that
23:00.35dromThe_Randomness Tybusen TekDroid AndroImp: http://crashworks.org/if_programming_languages_were_vehicles/
23:00.42drom"Java is another attempt to improve on C. It sort of gets the job done, but it's way slower, bulkier, spews pollution everywhere, and people will think you're a redneck."
23:00.44The_Randomnessyeah, I just pulled that up now
23:01.01dromAs a major C++ programmer, I think that description fits very well.
23:01.19The_Randomness"OCaml is this funny shaped thing that Europeans like for some reason." lol
23:01.26AndroImpded
23:01.27The_RandomnessI now get that part of it
23:07.12dromThe_Randomness: http://i.imgur.com/GHxmrsR.jpg
23:07.36The_Randomnesslol
23:08.10dromLike how ASM, C and C++ do have books, but the rest does not
23:08.24The_Randomnessheh
23:09.53dromTechnbobliterator: http://i.imgur.com/YRoqC.jpg
23:27.17Wormy_love it
23:31.33Wormy_http://imgur.com/gallery/7fZn8
23:32.02dromhttp://i.imgur.com/Mpk5lUg.jpg
23:36.29Wormy_dayumn nature http://imgur.com/gallery/kkxnYd6
23:45.37Wormy_http://imgur.com/gallery/ech9U
23:45.52dromWormy_ Monet: http://i.imgur.com/SqIJVl7.jpg
23:45.55Wormy_http://i.imgur.com/ulWHRjs.jpg
23:46.09Wormy_cute
23:47.35Wormy_http://i.imgur.com/7NDE5aj.jpg
23:50.30Wormy_Technobliterator http://imgur.com/gallery/gJUqhTF
23:50.46Technobliteratorwhy did you link me this
23:50.49Technobliteratoryou made me
23:50.50Technobliteratorso hungry
23:50.52Technobliterator;_;
23:51.15Wormy_It would rot before I could eat it all.
23:52.17dromHachiman AndroImp DrodoEmpire: http://i.imgur.com/fsQwezu.jpg
23:52.40OluapPlayerJo work on Reckoning grrr
23:53.51HachimanOh God
23:55.52dromCharles_Essays DrodoEmpire: American Freedom on four wheels http://i.imgur.com/d8XZUi0.webm
23:58.06Charles_EssaysWow that thing is old

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