IRC log for #qi-hardware on 20191025

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03:11.51*** join/#qi-hardware infobot (ibot@c-174-52-60-165.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
03:11.51*** topic/#qi-hardware is Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben/atusb 802.15.4 wireless, anelok and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware
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06:02.18ukleinektalked to someone from silabs recently and they too are waying for thread to gain ground, but up to know if you look for available sensors it's all zigbee
06:02.30ukleineks/kn/n/
06:02.57ukleinekeintopf: and even though I'm a kernel guy a userspace implementation is fine for me.
06:13.18eintopf:-)
06:13.39eintopfbut I think it will not be simple and no idea if zboss can work with your other zigbee device
06:13.58eintopfukleinek: you know what, I give you access to linux-wpan
06:14.32eintopfthen create a repo there for a starting zboss fork to make a user space implementation
06:14.43eintopfwhen I find time, I will help
06:15.04eintopfdeal?
06:16.02eintopfukleinek: I have something experimental for Thread user space implementation
06:16.13eintopfI will show you, you will figure out what I am doing there for sure
06:16.36eintopfhttps://github.com/linux-wpan/openthread/tree/af802154
06:17.21eintopfI use it only for monitor interface to make test stuff, I know people on the mailinglist they using it on node interface... I told them several times a warning because they don't know what they doing
06:17.29eintopfit has limitations...
06:17.55eintopfbut what I did in the af802154 branch, you should follow a similar idea with zboss
06:18.26eintopfhttps://github.com/linux-wpan/openthread/blob/fcb4ce308d9018cf23623f394d650f1c9106d5a7/examples/platforms/posix/radio-af-packet.c
06:18.45eintopfonly 126 lines \o/
06:19.01eintopfI remember, I didn't upstream it because they wanted that I sign some **** from them
06:19.15eintopfand they got afraid about it
06:19.22ukleinekand that's even though you put opening braces on separate lines :-)
06:19.38eintopffollowed their coding style
06:20.00eintopfI still search some other guy who upstream it for me
06:20.11eintopfsome guy who signs this stuff what they want
06:21.44eintopfpeople ask me "hey why it's not upstream" - "oh please upstream it for, I can't and I don't want" - no response back
06:21.54ukleinekeintopf: do you own openthread devices?
06:22.24ukleineklooking on amazon my search for "openthread sensor" only gives usb dongles and philips hue stuff (which is zigbee)
06:22.25eintopfukleinek: no, but with my branch you can test against openthread (Thread implementation) without any hardware involved
06:22.48eintopfukleinek: hue is ZigBee, MAY the new IKEA stuff is Thread, but I think it's ZigBee as well
06:22.52eintopfwith terrible security
06:23.07eintopfI think the IKEA stuff isn't available in Europe yet
06:23.08ukleinekikea is zigbee IIRC
06:23.14eintopfyea :-/
06:23.22eintopfyou need a google home thing
06:23.24eintopfor Nest
06:23.37ukleinekgoogle home = nest, isn't it?
06:23.57eintopfNest is fully integrated nowdays to Google products
06:24.11ukleinekbecause google bought nest some time ago
06:24.12eintopfukleinek: I can give you an internal contact of Nest
06:24.17eintopfand you could ask him
06:24.21eintopfyes
06:24.34eintopfNest (which is nowadays Google)
06:24.34ukleinekhttps://www.ikea.com/de/de/cat/ikea-smart-home-beleuchtung-mit-tradfri-36812/ <- available in Germany
06:24.45eintopfand Google is Alphabet
06:25.46eintopfukleinek: https://github.com/RIOT-OS/RIOT/tree/master/boards/ikea-tradfri
06:25.51eintopfthey are pretty open
06:25.53ukleineklooks for nest sensors < 150$
06:25.57eintopfyou can reflash them
06:26.16eintopfand put something open it and REALLY use open protocols onlyu
06:26.26eintopfThread forks open protocols
06:28.50eintopfukleinek: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/openthread-users
06:28.52eintopfask there
06:31.14eintopfhttps://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/openthread-users/Aring%7Csort:date/openthread-users/l2hozmMfE2M/GqyEgh6rBgAJ
06:31.29eintopfjust a warning what you get there
06:31.42eintopf"Please consider joining the Thread Group as an Affiliate member to gain access to the Thread Specification..." - hahah
06:31.53eintopfI remember it :-)
06:33.36eintopfI think I asked the right questions there
06:34.16eintopfbut I think Google is on the side to open the specification of Thread
06:34.25eintopfbut it seems the ThreadGroup doesn't want it
06:34.49eintopfbut what Google seems can do is doing an open source implementation for the closed spec Thread
06:34.58eintopfwhich sounds for me weird
06:35.14eintopfso Google isn't bad I think
06:35.21eintopfthey just can't do what they want to do
06:39.00ukleinekthe cheapest sensor I found is "Google Nest Temperature Sensor" for $39. For that amount I can get 3 zigbee sensors
06:39.48eintopfseems Nest want to deliver rich people at first
07:05.25ukleinekeintopf: you object to the goolge CLA? After a quick reading it doesn't look unreasonable to me.
07:05.44eintopfyou want to upstream my branch?
07:05.46eintopfgo ahead
07:06.51ukleinekI guess I don't want to upstream. Just looking around to judge if thread is more sensible than zigbee
07:07.04eintopfzigbee is dead
07:07.13ukleinekI guess for zigbee it's the same: You have to be a member to get the specs
07:07.27eintopfyou also need to pay
07:07.35eintopffor using the word zigbee
07:07.36eintopfetc.
07:07.45ukleinekzigbee isn't dead if you look at the available devices on the market?!
07:07.58eintopffor researchers it's dead
07:08.12eintopfis net/irda dead?
07:08.21eintopfor what they recently drop
07:09.00ukleinekthe name isn't a big problem, the open implementation would be called "gizwasp" or similar
07:09.09eintopfyea :D
07:09.15eintopfno
07:09.20eintopfit need to start with z
07:09.37ukleinekwhy that?
07:09.44eintopfbecause zigbee
07:10.02eintopfand bee related
07:10.12eintopfzapbee
07:10.21ukleineketnaviv doesn't start with a V either
08:12.27mthso "eebgiz" then?
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11:28.28eintopf:-)
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13:08.48wpwrakzombee ? :)
13:09.44eintopfthat sounds perfect
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17:23.53eintopfukleinek: you want access now and doing something good?
17:23.59eintopfI will help you when I find time
17:24.13eintopfespecially when you get "something" working
19:02.52*** join/#qi-hardware infobot (ibot@c-174-52-60-165.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
19:02.52*** topic/#qi-hardware is Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben/atusb 802.15.4 wireless, anelok and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware
19:02.52*** mode/#qi-hardware [+v infobot] by ChanServ
19:20.15ukleinekeintopf: I'm still far away from doing something sensible. I own an atusb but nothing else
19:21.12ukleinekthe only thing I did with the atusb for now is https://bugs.debian.org/943381
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22:39.26eintopfukleinek: urgh
22:39.27eintopfsorry
22:57.24eintopfukleinek: there was some use after free resource stuff recently on atusb
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