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| 00:25.14 | *** topic/#qi-hardware is Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben/atusb 802.15.4 wireless, anelok and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware |
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| 04:31.48 | *** join/#qi-hardware DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 04:34.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | wpwrak: it's not a mere technicality as soon as you want to replace libsystemd0 by a dummy |
| 04:35.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | technically lsusb may depend on udev, but not on larger systemd-* src |
| 04:38.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | but according to Pali it's no longer possible to build lsusb for maemo, thanks to missing systemd |
| 04:39.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | this sounds trivial but there was more to it than just "when it depends on XY, then it needs XY" |
| 04:41.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | with the systemd-cabal douchebags I have a hard time trying "never attribute to malice..." |
| 04:43.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~nosystemd |
| 04:43.19 | infobot | it has been said that nosystemd is https://devuan.org http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/ |
| 04:45.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | mth: the question really isn't which is better, usurpd init or sysvinit. The problem is: with poetterware you have no choice anymore |
| 04:47.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | the choice you got is basically devuan and that took over 2 years to reach 1st release candidate. Up to anybody's guess how long it would take a single admin to clean out systemd cancer from their system and then even maintain it |
| 04:49.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, you can replace PID1 by another init process. Still you need systemd running as a parocess for all the attached subsystems like udev, cron, ntp, whatnot |
| 04:54.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and systemd cabal not only feature creeping, they also forcefeed-introduce not-so-subtle semantic changes. (systemd-)Cron suddenly works like anacron, running missed events on resume from suspend, sth that cron never did by itself. login now terminating *all* processes the user started, on logout (nohup needs a patch to tell systemd not to kill it). Resolver now silently uses 8.8.8.8 when there's no working config, NTP also changed |
| 04:54.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | in a weird way. and so on and on |
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| 12:26.42 | whitequark | DocScrutinizer05: you don't need systemd running for systemd-udevd to run |
| 12:26.50 | whitequark | that's what I do on my debian system right now... |
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| 16:58.40 | wpwrak | incredible. gnat attacked at mid-day. those beasts know no limits. |
| 17:14.54 | whitequark | yeah, the FOSS Ada tooling is bad |
| 17:21.40 | wpwrak | ;-)) |
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| 20:45.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | missed that joke |
| 20:46.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | whitequark: thanks for clarification about udev. good to know |
| 20:47.44 | whitequark | DocScrutinizer05: gnat is the gnu ada compiler |
| 20:47.46 | whitequark | and it's bad |
| 20:47.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah :-) |
| 20:50.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | wonders if Ada is worth having a learning session and evaluating it. Heard high security projects like e.g. deep space missions and nuclear power plants use Ada a lot, dor some of its properties |
| 20:50.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/dor/for/ |
| 20:51.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | then otoh all devels seem to hate it |
| 21:16.21 | whitequark | DocScrutinizer05: Ada isn't half bad but it has a LOT of ceremony |
| 21:16.31 | whitequark | and there aren't any good FOSS compilers (or really any except gnat) |
| 21:16.39 | whitequark | so it's not really usable in the broader FOSS scene |
| 21:17.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I see. Thanks |
| 21:17.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Yeah, I guess Ada compilers need heavy and expensive certification |
| 21:18.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | so this would explain why not so much FOSS support for them |
| 21:19.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | any commercial enterprise wouldn't use and thus not improve/contribute to gnat |
| 21:19.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | right? |
| 21:21.22 | whitequark | no idea |
| 21:21.30 | whitequark | I think Ada is just very niche and maybe nearly dead |
| 21:21.37 | whitequark | barely anyone outside of DoD uses it |