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| 03:52.12 | *** topic/#qi-hardware is Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben/atusb 802.15.4 wireless, anelok and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware |
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| 06:02.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://lists.dns-oarc.net/pipermail/dns-operations/2016-June/014965.html krrhrr >> Which in general was my problem when I met the systemd people to talk about this. My use cases were simply ignored as not relevant.<< |
| 06:02.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | start here: https://lists.dns-oarc.net/pipermail/dns-operations/2016-June/014964.html |
| 06:29.57 | kyak | why do i have the feeling that there is some evil master plan behind systemd? |
| 06:41.01 | larsc | the evil master plan is to improve the Linux ecosystem |
| 06:46.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather redhat's ecosystem aka favourable balance |
| 06:47.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | kyak: maybe because you're right? |
| 06:49.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | also: https://lists.dns-oarc.net/pipermail/dns-operations/2016-June/014967.html >>[$Poetteringware fails on XY,] Which is exactly what $Poetteringware was supposed to solve....<< I smell a recurring annoying pattern |
| 06:50.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | even more annoying: often this doesn't change even *years* after introduction of the "new leete shit" |
| 06:56.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | on a more general paraphrased quote: "When your usecase doesn't work with systemd then your usecase is wrong. Systemd is great and there's absolutely no valid alternative to it" |
| 06:57.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope it's obvious that I beg to differ |
| 06:59.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | what really puzzles the shit outa me are those frequent statements like "I completely trust my distro maintainer to handle this for me" |
| 07:02.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | heck, I'd rather trust M$ regarding such stuff, than a distro maintainer making money only from providing support for those professional enterprise grade users that simply can't afford all the educational workshops anymore to keep pace with that avalanche of "new leete stuff that 'usually works' OOTB" |
| 07:05.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~freee |
| 07:05.04 | infobot | [freee] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZTdUmlGxVo0&t=3296 |
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| 07:17.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | (trust distro maintainers) actually it's rather the usual case that stuff like e.g. systemd comes up with new defaults that break shit for a significant number of users, and the distro maintainers don't give a flying F* to fix that |
| 07:19.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | au contraire your local custom settings in preferences are relentlessly nuked during installation of that new stuff. See for example sysreq keys |
| 07:20.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | and when you complain, the answer is "your usecase is, and always been, wrong - to start with. So WONTFIX" |
| 07:21.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | in case of sysreq keys "the user isn't supposed to be able to do this" KTNXBY |
| 07:37.17 | kyak | but that's quite true! average use is not supposed to be able to do that :) |
| 07:42.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | but when I deliberately enabled it on my system, who's bold enough to tell me I did wrong and he's entitled to fix it and educate me? |
| 07:47.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even microsoft got away with fixinf default browser each time MS Explorer got started |
| 07:47.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | finxing* |
| 07:49.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | or the insane "when you don't provide a working resolver/DHCP config, Systemd will be more helpful than dhcpd or any other daemon so far, and defaults to 8.8.8.8 for you" |
| 07:53.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | or cron which "was broken so far, but systemd fixed that for you, now replaying all events old cron would have missed due to e.g. system suspended at the scheduled time" - which provokes the answer "so far the `killall poettering` job was scheduled to a time where I'm supposed to have my system suspended, unless I'm gone insane over all that new crap" |
| 07:59.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | NB they *could* have done The Right Thing[TM], implement a default-off config option for that behavior, like "anacron=1", and even add a new parameter to crontab syntax to deal with jobs that actually want to use the replay feature. But nooooooo. |
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| 09:03.37 | whitequark | larsc: you mean "destroy" |
| 09:03.50 | whitequark | it's going on quite well, there is so much new fun fragmentation... |
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| 11:56.52 | wpwrak | whitequark: let's turn this around: if you're opposing systemd, your are fomenting division and fragmentation ! |
| 12:01.17 | wpwrak | but we have to hand it to poettering that, where init and such used to be a mainly technical area, he succeeded in politicizing it. if he's not out of steam yet, maybe he could lawyerize it in the next iteration. then we would have recovered syntony with overall societal development. :) |
| 13:27.35 | larsc | having to accept the EULA before a deamon starts |
| 13:35.01 | wpwrak | things like this: http://www.pidjin.net/2016/05/18/i-just-wanna-see/ |
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| 14:42.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOLOLOL |
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| 18:28.36 | kristianpaul | so cruel |
| 18:29.20 | kristianpaul | :p |
| 18:32.02 | kristianpaul | :o anelok.com that hovering features is quite handy |
| 18:32.16 | kristianpaul | bit of 404 still but not bad |
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| 19:26.23 | wpwrak | kristianpaul: 404 ? where ? |
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| 21:51.36 | kristianpaul | wpwrak: https://anelok.com/TOUCH |
| 21:51.38 | kristianpaul | https://anelok.com/MEMCARD |
| 21:51.41 | kristianpaul | .. |
| 21:52.15 | kristianpaul | but i read the Under Construction sign so.. |
| 22:07.57 | wpwrak | oh, right. i actually noticed these, too. they're weird, because all the things that are supposed to be there, are. lemme see what produces this ... |
| 22:10.18 | wpwrak | ah, links i planned to use at some point in the future :) i never noticed because i never even tried, but i saw crawlers try them - and now you :) |
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| 22:30.43 | wpwrak | hmm no, it's actually more subtle. it's a side-effect of how i implemented the hovering back then. meanwhile, i'm using a much nicer mechanism, suggested by hellekin, for block diagrams. but i never got around to upgrading this bit (which later inspired the block diagrams) |
| 22:40.03 | kristianpaul | oh lol |
| 22:59.24 | wpwrak | though the block diagram solution doesn't apply 1:1 either, because there i use pop-ups (a bit like on xkcd's "what if", which is actually where i stole that idea), while the anelok front page replaces the image. the latter should be easier, but the difference means that i can't just reuse the same scripts. |
| 23:00.07 | wpwrak | well, i guess that's a battle for another day then :) needs a bit of planning. |
| 23:05.24 | kristianpaul | :p |
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