IRC log for #qi-hardware on 20160509

01:27.49whitequarkhow is that relevant for OO?
01:28.00whitequarks/relevant/specific/
01:28.00qi-botwhitequark meant: "how is that specific for OO?"
01:28.43whitequarkfor that matter, the problem with solvespace codebase is that it's full of C-style shit. global variables all over the place.
01:29.14whitequarkif you want to make smug remarks about something you don't understand, take some time to learn what it is, first
02:22.46wpwrakran out of aggression control pills ? :) that was just a remark on the expression "refactoring" having appeared with OO. before you called it "clean up" or such. "refactoring" sounds so much more professional ;-)
02:30.22whitequarkshrugs
02:33.10whitequarkanyway, the reason it's hard to fix is that... it's easy to introduce a single table with global parameters
02:33.33whitequarkbut that's not very useful, because what you really want is to choose a row from that table when you import a sketch, right?
02:33.42whitequarklike to have a single screw-Mn.slvs with variable n
02:34.12whitequarkand solvespace right now has just a single global sketch, and a bunch of other things that make it all but impossible to solve one sketch while having another open
02:34.36whitequarkeverything is coupled, sketches don't exist in separation from UI, all the minute stuff lives in globals
02:34.58whitequarkfixing this is pretty much the next few months work on solvespace.
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03:29.54wpwrakin fped, all you see are "instances". when you click on something, you click on the instance. but what you actually edit is the object. that works pretty smoothly, even if it may sound weird.
03:30.15wpwraknot sure if there's some idea worth stealing for solvespace in there, though
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03:31.48whitequarkso you have an "object" with a dimension say of "a"
03:31.58whitequarkand an "instance" of the "object" with a=10?
03:31.59whitequarkright?
03:32.03wpwrak(for SS) i guess you could have "master" sketches with parameters and then subordinate sketches with the parameters filled in according to tables or such. the subordinates would be read-only.
03:32.38wpwrakyes, in fact, the instance doens't know there's an "a". it just sees the resulting value. ("a" could be any expression)
03:32.43whitequarkyep
03:32.57whitequarksolvespace actually has half of the infra for that. its symbolic algebra system can handle it
03:34.08whitequarkthe problem is that there's only one sketch and it's global and most of the functions to do anything with it refer to that global
03:34.16whitequarkso... within a single process, only one sketch exists
03:35.43wpwrakah, so also the groups are part of that one global sketch ?
03:35.55whitequarkyep
03:36.07whitequarkwhen you import another sketch there's a hack
03:36.24whitequarkit's not actually loaded, rather, when you save a sketch, the geometry is saved alongside it
03:36.40whitequarkand when you import it, it's not re-solved, the saved geometry is imported in one piece
03:36.52whitequarkas well as some entities (circles, points, etc; everything with parameters)
03:37.12whitequarkso it's completely impossible to e.g. import a sketch but with a parameter changed
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03:47.53wpwraki guess something similar to what i go in fped would work there, too. if a sketch uses parameters from a table, you treat it as "object" and only show the "instances".
03:50.15wpwrakyou'd also want a means to have a hierarchy of such tables. so that you can, say, have one set of iterations for dice, and one for their faces
03:50.18whitequarkit's not about treating it from an object
03:50.27whitequarkit's about not being able to ever have more than once instance in a process
03:50.34whitequarktreating it as an object*
03:54.56whitequarkas for hierarchy, yes, that's also planned
03:55.06whitequarksame problem: need more than one sketch loaded
03:56.27whitequarkand a second problem is that the file format is naive and has no nesting
03:56.30whitequarkalso, very inefficient
03:57.25whitequarkI think I'll replace it with a zip archive with bitcode (LLVM's format) files inside, one per sketch
03:58.10whitequarkthis way, it's easy to exchange (just one file!), easy to read (works with any archiver), and easy to put in VCS if you ever need that (just unpack it)
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04:00.19whitequarkso solvespace would just treat the zip archive as a "folder" and existing logic for relative paths being recorded inside sketch files would apply
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09:35.00*** topic/#qi-hardware is Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben/atusb 802.15.4 wireless, anelok and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware
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09:35.03DocScrutinizer05~flashing-cmdline
09:35.03infobot[flashing-cmdline] http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2016-04-09.log.html#t2016-04-09T01:18:12
09:36.56DocScrutinizer05alas it'salso still exploited for a lot of malware spam
09:39.47DocScrutinizer05tries to catch upwith backlog
09:48.40DocScrutinizer05whitequark: c&p oneliner for noobs to get solvespace?
09:49.03DocScrutinizer05prolly starting with "git create" or whatever
09:49.18DocScrutinizer05or even "mkdir"
09:51.14whitequarkhttps://github.com/whitequark/solvespace#building-for-linux
09:51.21DocScrutinizer05:-)
09:51.36whitequarkassumes you already git cloned it
09:51.59whitequarkfor 'noobs' i guess the easiest way is to get a package tho
09:52.09whitequarkhttps://github.com/whitequark/solvespace/releases/download/nightly.2016-05-07/solvespace_2.1_amd64.deb
09:52.52DocScrutinizer05hmm, k. maybe I find a way to handle this .deb on my RPM system
09:53.23whitequarkhm I thought y ou had a adebian-based system
09:53.33DocScrutinizer05nope
09:53.39whitequarkI don't have any easy instruction for rpm systems
10:05.49DocScrutinizer05wtf? sh: rpmbuild: command not found
10:06.49DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/91443329  now let's see
10:09.47DocScrutinizer05T (me does a sign with both hands):  http://paste.opensuse.org/72872722
10:10.30whitequarkthats completely unsurprising
10:10.41whitequarkwait
10:10.56whitequarkyou don't need the -dev packages for the binary package
10:12.00whitequarkin all likelihood you only need to install libgtkmm-2.4 libpangomm-1.4 libjson-c libspnav
10:12.07whitequarkeverything else is pulled in by these
10:15.53DocScrutinizer05https://software.opensuse.org/search?q=libgtkmm-2.4  I pass
10:16.30DocScrutinizer05wait
10:16.32DocScrutinizer05https://software.opensuse.org/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=libgtkmm
10:17.15DocScrutinizer05https://software.opensuse.org/package/libgtkmm-2_4-1
10:17.51whitequarkyea thats right
10:18.21whitequarkhttps://software.opensuse.org/package/libpangomm-1_4-1
10:19.10DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/76200840
10:20.02DocScrutinizer05zypper in libpangomm-1_4-1  -> Nothing to do.
10:20.33DocScrutinizer05you'll have decent install instructions for RPM based systems in a few minutes, eh? ;-)
10:20.42whitequarkwell ideally i would build rpms
10:20.49whitequarkthatd cover most distros anywhere
10:21.32DocScrutinizer05now back to the roots:  Problem: nothing provides libGLEW.so.1.10()(64bit) needed by solvespace-2.1-2.x86_64
10:22.32whitequarkoh right also glew
10:22.34DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/14919743
10:22.44whitequarkyeah you need 1_10
10:24.24DocScrutinizer05WAAAH!  http://wstaw.org/m/2016/05/09/plasma-desktoprT2219.png
10:25.46DocScrutinizer05sorry, not going to install OO5
10:26.07whitequarkwhat
10:26.17whitequarkoh, only OO5 includes that
10:26.24whitequarkok. then your only choice is to build from source
10:26.39DocScrutinizer05nevermind
10:27.13whitequarkhmm?
10:27.22DocScrutinizer05should rather head out and have a 3 beers and a long scooter, not necessarily in that sequence
10:27.37DocScrutinizer05scooter ride*
10:28.38whitequarkah well
10:28.41DocScrutinizer05I bet any git checkout of solvespace wouldn't include the libGLEW either
10:29.01whitequarkit won't, libglew is an external library
10:29.07whitequarkbut it will build with libglew1_9
10:29.08DocScrutinizer05:nod:
10:29.12DocScrutinizer05ooh
10:29.13whitequarkit just doesn't work with an existing binary lib
10:29.22whitequarkbecause it changed the ABI. the API is the same though
10:29.36DocScrutinizer05so we're back to square one ;-)
10:30.21DocScrutinizer05>>[2016-05-09 Mon 11:51:36] <whitequark> assumes you already git cloned it<<
10:30.44DocScrutinizer05which is a pretty optimistic assumption
10:31.11DocScrutinizer05git noob^hhater here
10:32.02whitequarkyou actually need git and not a tarball because there's a lib included as a submodule
10:32.24DocScrutinizer05fine with that, just NFC how to do
10:32.50DocScrutinizer05never touched git except via c&p of cmdlines
10:32.54whitequark$ git clone http://github.com/whitequark/solvespace
10:33.03DocScrutinizer05mkdir first maybe?
10:33.11whitequarkit will create a `solvespace` directory
10:33.15DocScrutinizer05ok
10:33.19whitequarkthen cd solvespace
10:33.27whitequarkthen follow https://github.com/whitequark/solvespace#building-for-linux exactly except for apt-get command
10:33.59whitequarki'm not sure where opensuse places developer files
10:34.04whitequarkmaybe in the gtkmm package?
10:34.21whitequarkwell, developer files for gtkmm live in the gtkmm pakcage itself
10:35.20DocScrutinizer05so good so far http://paste.opensuse.org/32644947
10:37.19DocScrutinizer05BWAHAHA      CMake 3.1.0 or higher is required.  You are running version 2.8.11.2
10:38.28whitequarkhttps://software.opensuse.org/package/cmake
10:38.30whitequarksays 3.3.2 here
10:41.18DocScrutinizer053.5 even
10:42.32DocScrutinizer05--   No package 'json-c' found
10:42.44DocScrutinizer05I can do that :-)
10:43.36whitequarklibjson-c
10:43.47whitequarkmaybe even libjson-c2
10:44.11DocScrutinizer05which one? got both
10:44.52DocScrutinizer05err nope, sorry
10:45.43DocScrutinizer05grr needs -devel too?
10:46.05whitequarkoh it's -devel
10:46.12whitequarkyes, then you need all of those -devel
10:46.36DocScrutinizer05--   No package 'glew' found
10:47.09whitequarkhttps://software.opensuse.org/package/libGLEW1_13
10:47.56DocScrutinizer05gnagnagna
10:47.59DocScrutinizer05--   No package 'gtkmm-2.4' found
10:48.00DocScrutinizer05--   No package 'pangomm-1.4' found
10:48.51whitequarklibgtkmm... etc
10:49.12whitequarkhttps://software.opensuse.org/package/libgtkmm-2_4-1 https://software.opensuse.org/package/libpangomm-1_4-1
10:49.23DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/33134569
10:50.16DocScrutinizer05-- Build files have been written to: /home/jr/neo900git/solvespace/build
10:50.24whitequark\o/
10:52.16DocScrutinizer05-Wall is a spammer
10:52.44DocScrutinizer05ohmy, prolly 50k warnings
10:52.48whitequarkcan you show me the log? I thought I fixed all that
10:53.12DocScrutinizer05I doubt it will fit into pastebin ;-P
10:54.05DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/68808988
10:54.18DocScrutinizer05yeah, too large
10:54.20whitequark404
10:54.22whitequarkwow
10:54.26whitequarkthat seems extreme
10:54.52DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/58937120
10:56.53DocScrutinizer05this is maybe 0.1% of the log
10:57.11whitequarkhuh
10:58.00whitequarkoh, gcc added some new warnings
10:58.16DocScrutinizer05wc -lc  gives    5607  761776
10:59.14DocScrutinizer05anyway
10:59.16DocScrutinizer05[100%] Linking C executable CDemo
10:59.17DocScrutinizer05[100%] Built target CDemo
11:00.13DocScrutinizer05curiously tries to run CDemo
11:00.51whitequarkthats nothing interesting
11:00.59whitequarkthe demo of the solver separate from solvespace itself
11:01.51DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/83507515 krhrhr yep
11:02.07DocScrutinizer05soooo... what next?
11:02.13whitequark./src/solvespace
11:02.27DocScrutinizer05aaah sudo make install?
11:02.36DocScrutinizer05would prefer to test first
11:02.42DocScrutinizer05k
11:02.55whitequarkdon't need make install
11:02.55DocScrutinizer05\o/
11:03.00whitequarkruns just fine form where it's built
11:03.09whitequarkit has special code to detect that case and find all its usr/share junk
11:03.27DocScrutinizer05tiny colorful itsybitsyteenewheenie window :-D
11:03.51whitequarkdo you have a hidpi display or what?
11:04.05DocScrutinizer05don*t think so :-))
11:04.14whitequarkhmmm then it shouldn't be that tiny
11:04.22whitequarkbut w/e
11:04.27whitequarktutorial http://solvespace.com/tutorial.pl reference http://solvespace.com/ref.pl
11:04.59DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2016/05/09/plasma-desktopQc2219.png
11:05.17whitequarkthats only one of its two windows
11:05.50DocScrutinizer05ooh right
11:06.10DocScrutinizer05and given it's nailed to top of stack, it rather be small :-)
11:07.03DocScrutinizer05even funnier: doesn't show up in window list
11:07.03whitequarkit's only supposed to be on top of the main window
11:07.14whitequarkos x does this right and even windows does
11:07.19whitequarkbut x11 has no way to specify that
11:07.19DocScrutinizer05it's on top of everything, all times
11:07.26whitequarkyes
11:07.32whitequarki'd rather not do that but i can't
11:08.15DocScrutinizer05I will try to do a little fancy and create some khotkeys stuff for it to stay on top of main solvespace window only
11:09.04DocScrutinizer05I easily can unselect the "stay on top" property anyway, so not THAT bad
11:09.33DocScrutinizer05unless... I don't find it in window list to get it to top again
11:09.55whitequarkalt+tab?
11:10.08whitequarkalso you can close and open it via menu in main window
11:10.24DocScrutinizer05no, doesn't even show up in aölt-tab list
11:11.07DocScrutinizer05hmm, so how about you closing it automatically when main window goes to background, and vice versa?
11:11.37DocScrutinizer05sounds like the "easiest" implementation
11:11.50DocScrutinizer05better than some kdesktop scripting
11:11.56whitequarkthats rather nasty
11:12.02whitequarki mean it works very well with my wm, for example
11:12.15DocScrutinizer05mompls, need to talk to evildragon
11:12.31whitequarkwhat
11:18.14DocScrutinizer05#dragonbox-pyra, sourcing of PLS8 modem modules
11:19.04DocScrutinizer05[2016-05-09 Mon 10:38:48] * DocScrutinizer05 tries to sort own options about joining in tomodem purchase with a few (hundred)   [2016-05-09 Mon 13:11:58] <EvilDragon> DocScrutinizer05, Sure, if you need the same parts, reaching MOQs is easier.
11:36.52eintopf:o EvilDragon
11:37.03eintopfthe guy behind gp2x-shop
11:46.41DocScrutinizer05yeah, a nice guy
11:52.41eintopfwhen I was ~14 I was very close to buy some gp2x
11:52.47eintopfbut was too expensive
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13:55.59DocScrutinizer05whitequark: yes, the tiny window is definitely lost in nirvana once I disable the keep-on-top property
13:56.26DocScrutinizer05can't even find a way to disable and re-enable it from main window
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13:57.08DocScrutinizer05something about the window properties make it completely vanish in KDE window manager
13:58.44DocScrutinizer05so unless I minimize *all* other windows (which I didn't) there's no way to get back to that tiny window once it's allowed to go to background
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22:24.16whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: View → Show Text Window
22:24.38DocScrutinizer05hmm, mised that
22:24.51whitequarkwhat I do to it is
22:24.52whitequark<PROTECTED>
22:24.52whitequark<PROTECTED>
22:24.52whitequark<PROTECTED>
22:24.52whitequark<PROTECTED>
22:26.12DocScrutinizer05the last two make the window unaccessable
22:27.08DocScrutinizer05and I don't understand why they are needed anyway, or rather what for
22:27.46DocScrutinizer05(my uneducated guess)
22:28.44whitequarkI did that when porting from Windows to achieve identical behavior
22:31.11whitequarkit doesn't seem like ICCCM has the behavior that I want
23:12.14whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: wait no
23:14.13whitequarkDocScrutinizer05: can you remove the line src/gtk/gtkmain.cpp:1318 and recompile?
23:14.26whitequarkon Ubuntu's WM, this gives the exact behavior that I expect
23:14.31whitequarkdunno if it does on kwin
23:14.51DocScrutinizer05whitequark: wouldn't you want to rather paste me a sed line?
23:16.51DocScrutinizer05like find . -name gtkmain.cpp -exec sed 's\1318\d' \;   or sth
23:18.04whitequarkI have no idea how to do that
23:18.11whitequarkcan you just delete one line by its number?
23:18.16DocScrutinizer05how to do what?
23:18.23whitequarkwhat
23:18.28whitequarkopen the file in an editor
23:18.37whitequarkoh
23:18.40whitequarkhow to do *what*
23:18.48DocScrutinizer05I think so, but the idea actually would rather be to find the right line without a number that's possibly ambiguous or wrong
23:19.03whitequarkit's the current HEAD and the line is "set_keep_above(true);"
23:19.19DocScrutinizer05HEAD?
23:19.30whitequarkthe commit that you cloned yesterday
23:19.34DocScrutinizer05nfc
23:19.49DocScrutinizer05I pasted a cmdline
23:19.59DocScrutinizer05don't expect me to know what I did
23:20.13whitequarkI don't, I already know what you did and it's enough
23:21.19DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~/neo900git/solvespace/build> less src/gtk/gtkmain.cpp
23:21.21DocScrutinizer05src/gtk/gtkmain.cpp: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
23:21.23DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~/neo900git/solvespace/build> less ../src/gtk/gtkmain.cpp
23:21.40DocScrutinizer05now paste a unique string of the line to delete
23:22.00whitequark"set_keep_above(true);"
23:22.56DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~/neo900git/solvespace/build> sed -i "s/set_keep_above(true);//" ../src/gtk/gtkmain.cpp
23:23.37DocScrutinizer05[100%] Built target CDemo
23:24.18whitequarkokay, now run it
23:24.34whitequarkwhat happens on my ubuntu install (gnome) is that both solvespace windows stay on the same "layer"
23:24.38DocScrutinizer05the text window isn't stay-on-top anymore, rest unchanged
23:25.05whitequarkwhen you switch to graphics window after overlapping text window with sth else, does text window come up?
23:25.09DocScrutinizer05so just what could be expected
23:25.37DocScrutinizer05no
23:25.48whitequarkok. lemme install kubuntu then
23:25.59DocScrutinizer05I had to disable and re-enable text-window to find it again
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