IRC log for #qi-hardware on 20160428

00:14.28wpwrakthe autodetect doesn't seem to support dual-head. it usually finds one screen, though.
00:26.58DocScrutinizer05I generally despise the basic concept of "autodetect" without interactive override/supervision
00:27.18DocScrutinizer05it's what makes M$ products such unbearable crap
00:29.09DocScrutinizer05any such autodetect aka "smart wizard" always works for 99% of usual cases at best, while failing in a way far beyond what's called 'epic', for the remaining 1+%
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00:30.22DocScrutinizer05actually it seems those 1% fringe cases never are tested in any of such wizards, and the result when confronting the system with a fringe case are completely unpredictable
00:30.23wpwrakoh, you have those overrides, in the form of xorg.conf. something i learned to day, though, is that it now ignores instructions in xorg.conf it doesn't like. that's a feature i hadn't noticed before.
00:31.09DocScrutinizer05yeah, poor documentation of any such "override" path is basicaly concept immanent
00:31.25DocScrutinizer05as is missing QA for the same features
00:31.47wpwrakdocumentation wouldn't help - there's far too much stuff in xorg.conf :)
00:31.57DocScrutinizer05it's the wrong approach on a very very basic level
00:32.34wpwraka visual configurator would be nice. show the cards, show what's connected, try to display something.
00:32.50DocScrutinizer05even the devels think "it's not worth looking into that annoying stuff meant to deal with only <1% of usecases"
00:33.17DocScrutinizer05and that's a immanent result from the "auto wizard" approach
00:33.17wpwrakthe data can be patched together from the x server log, xrandr, and such, but it's messy and very easy to get wrong
00:33.37DocScrutinizer05yep
00:34.23wpwrakin any case, it just surprised me that two screens was so hard. i'm used to triple-head being an epic uphill battle, but dual-head ought to be less painful.
00:36.49DocScrutinizer05KDE knows to handle dual-head in a very seamless manner, when I plug a new moni to my PC. However I dunno where's the limit at which it again fails completely
00:39.04DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2016/04/28/plasma-desktoprj2219.png
00:39.28DocScrutinizer05NB I never configured the system to work dual-headed
00:39.59DocScrutinizer05I just connected a 21:9 moni to a HDI/DP jack I found on backside of this PC
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00:40.17DocScrutinizer05and it instantly switched to dual-headed
00:41.26DocScrutinizer05the screenshot above shows single-moni state though
00:43.14DocScrutinizer05the icons at bottom of a screen symbol are (from left to right): "rotate display 90° counterclockwise",  "toggle primary output"  and  "Show list of available display resolutions"
00:44.48DocScrutinizer05obviously you can rearrange displays by dragging them to where they belong to, and you can enable/disable then with the checkbox. No idea where to switch between multi-desktop and tiled desktop
00:46.12DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2016/04/28/plasma-desktopAc2219.png
00:51.39wpwrakyeah, i don't have fancy "desktop" utilities to rearrange the server configuration. my workflow is more linear: x server finds and sets up the displays, then fvwm uses them. not even sure what fvwm would do if a new screen suddenly appeared.
00:53.21DocScrutinizer05my comment was more about "this dang KDE obviously does something, and maybe it does it correctly most of them time. Alas no idea WHAT it does, but... it's FOSS so the sourcecode should tell, in an ideal world"
00:53.58wpwrakyes, sometimes that haystack can be rather big :)
00:55.17DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2016/04/28/plasma-desktopjk2219.png
00:55.34DocScrutinizer05maybe that helps to reduce the haystack
00:56.54wpwraklooks like a big haystack :) also, the fun bits are probably in some middleware
01:01.26DocScrutinizer05yeah, probably
01:02.19DocScrutinizer05the shitty thin g doesn't even have a cmdline option to open the right subsection for display management
01:03.44DocScrutinizer05would a strace of hitting "Apply" button help you?
01:10.52wpwraknaw, this works at a completely different level than where i am. i don't want to reconfigure a running x server. i need it to start correctly, given a static configuration.
01:11.45wpwrakin any case, what i have seems to work. the missing :0 will probably upset some thing, but there shouldn't be a lot of them.
01:11.46DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.cloud-7.de/snapshots/strace-desktopconfigDisplay.txt
01:11.50DocScrutinizer05anyway
01:13.25DocScrutinizer05prolly worthless without /proc/fd/* listing
01:14.02wpwrakyeah, a lot of binary messages being exchanged with something else. you'd really have to analyze the whole chain of critters to even know what it does. and then that still wouldn't help, since i'm at a completely different interface.
01:14.50wpwrakxrandr was useful, though, to provide an overview of what i should be looking for in the server log :)
01:15.00DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/14069323  s/without.*//
01:15.46DocScrutinizer05I bet even a dbus-monitor gives better info than that strace
01:16.08DocScrutinizer05and I'd not at all feel surprised to find systemd involved once again
01:16.21wpwrak:)
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01:26.23DocScrutinizer05btw please hand me a bucket for vo.... err  /home/jr/.config/ibus
01:27.29DocScrutinizer05wtf is ibus now? seen that at least 3 times during last year - as if dbus wasn't disgusting enough
01:30.01DocScrutinizer05MHM https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/IBus
01:32.22DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~/eagle-7.5> set|grep ibus
01:32.23DocScrutinizer05GTK_IM_MODULE=ibus
01:32.25DocScrutinizer05QT_IM_MODULE=ibus
01:32.26DocScrutinizer05XMODIFIERS=@im=ibus
01:36.51DocScrutinizer05and a `dbus-monitor` made me fall off my chair
01:37.09DocScrutinizer05kcookiejar calls more than the display can cope with
01:37.16DocScrutinizer05http://s7.addthis.com/  what the hell
01:40.40DocScrutinizer05method call sender=:1.62142 -> dest=org.kde.kded serial=504585 path=/modules/kcookiejar; interface=org.kde.KCookieServer; member=addCookies    string "http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Refurbished-Nokia-N900-original-unlocked-phone-GPS-WIFI-5MP-32GB-internal-memory-support-Russian-keyboard/1005214_32275594984.html?aff_platform=aaf&sk=eub6yrrBy:&cpt=1460273616786&af=5483&cv=41107&cn=2o5eqc0pqysr2yl45r2zns7f187ul8ml&dp=v5_
01:40.42DocScrutinizer052o5eqc0pqysr2yl45r2zns7f187ul8ml&afref=http://colossalous.com/aen/&aff_trace_key=15361670cf5b4bc38079114268a9f600-1460273616786-06680-eub6y"    array of bytes "Set-Cookie: isg=8B566AAFD14854C960881B82AD4077B1; expires=Sat, 28-May-2016 01:39:57 GMT; domain=aliexpress.com; path=/"    int64 203423763 method return sender=:1.12 -> dest=:1.62142 reply_serial=504585
01:46.21DocScrutinizer05helped me to identify 4 browser windows I closed and thus reduced my CPU load from 10% to 2%
01:47.26DocScrutinizer05(ballpark figures)
01:51.21DocScrutinizer05nice: http://wstaw.org/m/2016/04/28/plasma-desktopRl2219.png
01:52.23DocScrutinizer05anyway checking dbus isn't feasible, way too much noise there
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03:31.41wpwrakkilling runaway tabs is really easy in chromium: since each has its own process, you just kill anything that burns 100%
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03:34.14wpwrakbtw, my new monitor has an external power supply. in the 1st generation, the backlights failed first. so i went to LED in the 2nd generation. there, the power supply area failed (always caps, but also accompanied by other bits). let's see where they put the bug in the 3rd generation.
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04:14.44whitequarklol
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04:39.20DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: the problem being that this didn't really show up as runaway process in/of browser, the CPU load is mainly with dbus etc I guess
04:40.03DocScrutinizer05(external PSU) same here with this LG 21:9 monitor
04:40.30DocScrutinizer05I'm still undecided if I appreciate or dislike this design
04:41.15DocScrutinizer05on the bright side: it makes simple "UPS" setups pretty easy
04:41.25DocScrutinizer05checks the voltage of that PSU)
04:41.54whitequarkdbus?
04:41.57whitequarkchromium doesn't use dbus
04:42.14DocScrutinizer0519V@2.1A
04:42.15whitequarkchromium uses SysV IPC for everything and also shared memory
04:42.26DocScrutinizer05sure
04:42.48DocScrutinizer05but *I* don't use *chromium* ;-D
04:43.19DocScrutinizer05still with konqueror
04:43.27whitequarkah, idk about konqueror
04:44.06DocScrutinizer05and konqueror, as a true KDE app, uses dbus for literally everything
04:44.33DocScrutinizer05particularly to connect to kcookiejar
04:44.41whitequarkokay that's a very stupid design
04:45.05DocScrutinizer05possibly
04:45.20whitequarkbtw
04:45.24whitequarkSMD reflow with a blowtorch
04:45.28whitequarkit works quite well
04:45.51DocScrutinizer05then otoh it separates functional blocks, so you could integrate the rendering part incl cookies and all into arbitrary other apps
04:46.03DocScrutinizer05o.O
04:46.14DocScrutinizer05blowtorch? EEEW
04:46.52DocScrutinizer05I bet soldering works quite well, I just wonder how well the silicon chips will work after such torture
04:46.55whitequarkdidn't have a hot air gun or even a skillet yesterday, so did it by using a ts8000 map/pro (propylene) bernzomatic torch as a "hot air gun"
04:47.11whitequarknote i didn't put anything into the flame, i just used the hot exhaust
04:47.28DocScrutinizer05hmm
04:47.33whitequarkwhat surprised me was how sedate it is, it actually took quite long to get the board to reflow temp
04:47.56whitequarkI literally had an easier time ruining a board with a proper SMD rework station
04:48.39whitequarkSMD rework station: localized heat, relatively low power, annoying to use--prone to inattentively overheating the PCB and delaminating
04:49.02DocScrutinizer05I'd probably consider pizza carton plus my beloved ATTEN 858D
04:49.04whitequarkblowtorch: moves MASSIVE amounts of air, 1-2kW of power (iirc), heats up the entire board relatively evenly
04:49.22whitequarkand you need 1-1.5 minutes to get it to 220 (measured with IR thermometer)
04:50.59whitequarkmy main concern is the water vapor in the exhaust
04:51.53DocScrutinizer05LOL  http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/deadly-wiring-fault-atten-858d-hot-air-rework-station/
04:52.35DocScrutinizer05(water) quite justified
04:53.28DocScrutinizer05whitequark: any hint on this lil 'problem'?  http://paste.opensuse.org/5201752
04:53.42DocScrutinizer05how the heck are those guys loading kernel modules?
04:54.02whitequarksudo modprobe
04:54.14whitequarkmodprobe is in sbin and sbin is not in non-root PATH
04:54.55DocScrutinizer05hmm
04:55.15DocScrutinizer05wow you're right
04:55.48DocScrutinizer05usb_storage            53147  0
04:55.49DocScrutinizer05scsi_mod              128229  1 usb_storage
04:55.51DocScrutinizer05\o/
04:56.25DocScrutinizer05Apr 28 06:55:23 UbiqPKD kernel: SCSI subsystem initialized
04:56.57DocScrutinizer05(PKD = Phillip K. Dick ;-D)
04:57.48DocScrutinizer05https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubik
04:58.43DocScrutinizer05Ubiquiti router
04:59.32DocScrutinizer05thought my account was semi-rooted, with all root-usual dirs in PATH
04:59.52DocScrutinizer05this shell is a bitch anyway
05:00.28DocScrutinizer05thanks!
05:00.50whitequarkyw
05:03.38DocScrutinizer05still no USB memstick showing up anywhere
05:03.48whitequarkehci_hcd?
05:04.26DocScrutinizer05this critter has an USB jack that's tagged "for future uses"
05:04.37DocScrutinizer05lemme see
05:04.49DocScrutinizer05modprobe ehci_hcd?
05:05.41whitequarkyes
05:07.47DocScrutinizer05RROR: Module ehci_hcd not found
05:07.56DocScrutinizer05modinfo
05:08.27whitequarkhmmm ohci_hcd maybe?
05:09.53DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/33335387
05:11.22DocScrutinizer05they don't ship the driver, or it's no *hci*_hcd
05:11.49DocScrutinizer05which wouldn't be too strange, given this is MIPS64 arch iirc
05:11.58whitequarkwhat does lspci say?
05:12.13DocScrutinizer05-su: lspci: command not found
05:12.27whitequarkmmm no pci
05:12.31whitequarkno idea
05:12.33whitequarkask ubnt?
05:12.43DocScrutinizer05I bet this router has no pci ;-)
05:12.57whitequarkyou'd be surprised
05:13.01DocScrutinizer05yeah, ask ubnt, that's prolly the best advice
05:13.04whitequarkI've seen MIPS SoCs with internal PCI
05:13.06whitequarkmore than once
05:13.10whitequarkeven ARM SoCs
05:13.15DocScrutinizer05:-D
05:13.50whitequarkcouldn't believe my eyes the first time. turns out atheros makes wireless PHYs with native PCI
05:14.08whitequarkthey just put the entire thing on a SoC when going from "PC addon card" to "SoC based router"
05:14.09DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/55024875
05:15.34DocScrutinizer05I guess I'll check the USB with a ttyUSB/ACM during boot
05:16.09DocScrutinizer05wouldn't be surprised to find it's the bootloader console
05:16.44whitequarkit might not even be USB
05:16.50whitequarkjust using the USB connector
05:17.00DocScrutinizer05hmm, it's tagged 'USB' anyway
05:17.30DocScrutinizer05or rather, the USB symbol on device plate
05:17.51DocScrutinizer05in manual it's "USB, not used. For future use" OWTTE
05:24.17DocScrutinizer05https://dl.ubnt.com/guides/edgemax/EdgeRouter_ER-8_QSG.pdf  >> USB  Reserved for future use.<<
05:25.14DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/55151657
05:25.28DocScrutinizer05sorry
05:25.55DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2016/04/28/plasma-desktopmn2219.png
05:25.58whitequarkI have an ERL device and it has a RJ45 connector
05:26.02whitequarkexcept it's actually serial
05:26.31DocScrutinizer05yep, "Console"
05:27.07DocScrutinizer05I still wonder where to get a cable for that BS
05:28.08whitequarkjust make it
05:28.13whitequarkdon't you have an RJ45 crimper?
05:28.26DocScrutinizer05btw I inverted/rotated the fans mechanically so they do sane high airpressure case mode instead of the brainfucked vacuum vleaner mode :-)
05:28.43whitequarknot sure if there's a difference
05:28.47DocScrutinizer05hmm, I have a db9 jack ;-)
05:29.09whitequarkfor example I did a 1kW chiller, was a bit surprised to discover that the evap has a fan that pulls air through it
05:29.12whitequarknot pushed
05:29.12whitequarkpushes
05:29.17DocScrutinizer05might cut a regular patchcable
05:29.17whitequarkbut it works very well nonetheless
05:30.32DocScrutinizer05well, overpressure is much easier to do nice things like http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20160426_001.jpg
05:31.06DocScrutinizer05btw that been the reason for watching temperature. Seems my mod cools better than the original setup
05:31.19DocScrutinizer05and keeps inside of device absolutely dustfree
05:32.49DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/55024875  vs  (ok, arbitrary) https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/205223410-EdgeMAX-Show-CPU-temperature
05:36.20DocScrutinizer05anyway two similar fans are causing really annoying interference, my ears suffer
05:37.26DocScrutinizer05a rack is mandatory to operate this thing
05:37.36DocScrutinizer05closed type, with door
05:37.52DocScrutinizer05will benefit my PC and UPS as well
05:40.38DocScrutinizer05(fan push/pull) it's mainly a matter of placing filters before where you know air *enters* the case. You can't do that in vacuum cleaner mode (the usual PC mode)
05:41.12DocScrutinizer05the ERpro has ventilation slots *everywhere*
05:41.33DocScrutinizer05now air comes out there, keeping all dust outside
05:42.30DocScrutinizer05in factory config air entered everywhere and came out at the tiny fan apertures
05:43.03DocScrutinizer05I know how devices look inside after doing this a 6 months in my home
05:43.43DocScrutinizer05particularly annoying for laptops which you have a 'lot of fun' cleaning the heatsinks
05:44.01DocScrutinizer05killed 3 laptops with this
05:46.52DocScrutinizer05but *finally* with this nice router my LAN feels sort of secure, with each device having its own eth* IF with its own firewall rules and all
05:47.24DocScrutinizer05learning about ARP-poisoning drove me nuts
05:47.45DocScrutinizer05good luck with ARP poisoning my LAN now ;-P
05:48.41whitequarkhaha yes I pwned the entire Windows domain in high school with ARP poison
05:48.52whitequarkwouldn't get domain admin had they not use LM hashes though
05:49.20DocScrutinizer05LM?
05:50.38whitequarklanman hash
05:50.48DocScrutinizer05never heard of
05:51.03DocScrutinizer05would googling for lanman help?
05:51.19whitequarkit's a hash algorithm that first changes the password to uppercase then splits it in two 7-character hash
05:51.27whitequarkpasswords over 14 characters or non-ASCII are prohibited
05:51.30DocScrutinizer05ROTFL
05:51.35whitequarkexactly
05:51.46whitequarkyou don't even need rainbow tables, you can probably crack it with an abacus
05:51.54DocScrutinizer05yeah
05:52.08whitequarkI did use rainbow tables though, I got ~40% of all passwords in the domain
05:52.19whitequarkwithin... two minutes
05:52.27DocScrutinizer05but with proper ARP cache poisoning you can snoop all traffic in your LAN anyway, so...
05:52.27whitequarkthe rest used NTLM which took more work
05:52.36whitequarkyes, that's how I got the domain admin hash
05:52.43whitequarkand the rest I pulled from the domain controller using l0pht
05:52.49whitequarkgood fun
05:53.01DocScrutinizer05hehe
05:53.33whitequarkI reported that to the admin so I haven't even been reprimanded, another guy RATted the domain though and got expelled
05:53.49whitequarkand/or because he was an asshole, the latter part may have had more weight tbh
05:54.01DocScrutinizer05my LAN no ARP query or reply can reach any device except the one device which knows there are no ARP replies expected regarding gateway
05:54.19DocScrutinizer05expected to come from anybody but the router itself
05:54.57DocScrutinizer05so any ARP poisoning will rather result in an immediate ban of the offender instead of succeeding
05:57.52whitequarkhttp://lab.whitequark.org/notes/2016-04-28/smd-reflow-with-a-blowtorch/
05:58.04DocScrutinizer05one school director said "how can we expect our pupils to develop a sense for security when we forbid any hacking in our school network?"
05:58.44DocScrutinizer05this guy had rewarded you
05:59.09DocScrutinizer05thanked you publicly and appointed you for admin
05:59.28whitequarkyeah, some sanity still remains in this world
05:59.37whitequarkin the US they'd probably put you in jail
05:59.43DocScrutinizer05yeah
06:07.27DocScrutinizer05nice little report ^^^ :-)
06:07.45DocScrutinizer05did you try brute force VPS?
06:09.20DocScrutinizer05I guess any arbitrary cooking pot with lid, any arbitrary stove, and a 5cl of Galden, plus some wire bent to keep the PCB a 2cm above the pot's bottom, should do
06:11.02whitequarkno, still not... I've had enough meatspace troubles that I didn't do any PCB in many months, not one since I received galden
06:11.14whitequarknext one, I think
06:11.34DocScrutinizer05to gain perfection you may have to tune the amount of Galden in relation to pot size, and the power and duration of heat applied via stove
06:13.13whitequarkI think I can even cool down forcibly the top of the vessel
06:13.16whitequarksince I now have the chiller
06:13.24DocScrutinizer05great! :-)
06:13.32whitequarkohhhhh I just realized, galden vapor phase soldering is basically the same as a diffusion pump
06:13.35whitequarkmechanically
06:13.52DocScrutinizer05I heard of folks using a steel bowl with ice and water inside, for lid of pot
06:14.55whitequarkthe advantage of my position in HK is I can afford to design nice things rapidly because of taobao
06:15.01whitequarkhave you seen my chiller?
06:15.11DocScrutinizer05I had an extremely weird idea: using Galden instead of water in a steam pistol, and then really 'spray' the PCB with Galden vapor
06:15.18whitequarksteam pistol?
06:15.19whitequarkwhats that
06:15.28DocScrutinizer05well, Dampfstrahler
06:15.47DocScrutinizer05come in different sizes
06:16.04DocScrutinizer05just a pot to boil water and a nozze where vapor escapes
06:16.14DocScrutinizer05nozzle even
06:16.32whitequarkohhhhhhh
06:16.34whitequarksteam cleaner
06:16.44DocScrutinizer05those things come in handheld for e.g. cleaning windows
06:16.49whitequarkyeah I know
06:16.54whitequarkjust never heard as 'pistol'
06:17.02DocScrutinizer05well, I ,ade that up
06:17.14whitequarkI think that's not unreasonable but you have two problems
06:17.37DocScrutinizer05galden mess everywhere being first
06:17.37whitequarkwell, no, sorry, one
06:17.41whitequarkwhich is galden escaping
06:17.41whitequarkyes
06:17.42whitequarkexactly
06:17.52whitequark2nd was me misunderstanding thermodynamics for a moment :)
06:18.18DocScrutinizer05that's fixing itself :-)
06:19.00DocScrutinizer05for the mess issue, maybe a huge basin with a glas lid and two holes for your arms would do
06:21.16whitequarkwhats the benefit?
06:21.35whitequarkyou can prolly do that but i don't see why would i want to
06:22.11DocScrutinizer05err, more punctual heating, compared to a complete vapor bath which might be a) not feasible for large board, and b) not even intended, so ther components don't get unsoldered
06:23.11DocScrutinizer05it's the mega hot air
06:23.36DocScrutinizer05way better heat transfer, no overheating
06:24.35DocScrutinizer05the latter obviously thanks to precisely defined vapor temperature
06:25.16whitequarkthats true that the process is much more versatile
06:25.19DocScrutinizer05think of it like the no-touch soldering iron ;-)
06:25.28whitequarkbut i find it hard to imagine where the versatility would justify the drawbacks
06:25.41DocScrutinizer05rework
06:25.44whitequarkhmmm
06:26.15whitequarkI like your idea now
06:26.26DocScrutinizer05wonders if there's already a patent on that
06:26.34DocScrutinizer05;-)
06:28.34DocScrutinizer05some contraption designed faintly similar like an e-cig comes to mind
06:29.00DocScrutinizer05extremely fast ramp-up
06:29.23DocScrutinizer05control amount of Galden vapor directly via the electrical heating element power
06:30.50whitequarkfeeding it seems complicated
06:31.05DocScrutinizer05feeding liquid?
06:31.20DocScrutinizer05yeah, that's what e-cigs are great in
06:31.46DocScrutinizer05I think it works like a petrol lamp, with a wick of sorts
06:32.53DocScrutinizer05DAMN YOU, ERproFANS! they create a 5Hz interference
06:33.05whitequarkyes it has a wick
06:33.09whitequarkbut that holds very little vapor
06:33.24whitequarkif it's ok to manually refill it once in a while then that works
06:33.51whitequarkI'm not sure how much heat (in J) is needed to eg desolder one SMD
06:34.19DocScrutinizer05yep, of course. You have a 20cl tank with a wick, to hold the Galden. Then at top the wick goes around a .. 50W resistor
06:34.39whitequarkGalden's heat of vaporization is 63J/g
06:34.39DocScrutinizer05in a tube that ends in a nozzle
06:34.50whitequarkso with a 50W resistor you can deliver ~1g/s of galden
06:34.59whitequarkand so 50W of heat
06:35.00whitequarkhm
06:35.04DocScrutinizer05make that 200W then ;-)
06:35.10whitequarkthen you need 4g/s
06:35.20whitequarkgthats a lot of galden
06:35.23DocScrutinizer05yep
06:35.42DocScrutinizer05let's just test it :-D
06:35.56DocScrutinizer05I mean, the Galden shouldn't get lost
06:36.14DocScrutinizer05of course you want to catch it and 'recycle' it
06:36.24whitequarkone issue is having too little flow of galden, which makes it decompose to HF and COF2
06:36.34DocScrutinizer05right
06:36.43DocScrutinizer05you don't want that :-/
06:36.55whitequarkeven if you're in respirator
06:36.59whitequarkHF will destroy your board real well
06:37.08DocScrutinizer05yeah sure
06:37.17DocScrutinizer05Galden is nasty like hell when overheated
06:37.18whitequarkyou can control the temp to make sure it never exceeds 300°C even locally, perhaps
06:37.26DocScrutinizer05:nod:
06:37.57DocScrutinizer05there are those really great PTC heater elements in hot glue pistols
06:38.17DocScrutinizer05dunno if those also exist for 250°C
06:38.32whitequarkprobably
06:38.34DocScrutinizer05I never even checked the temperature of the hotglue
06:38.53DocScrutinizer05doesn't feel like >200° on my fingers ;-D
06:39.35whitequarkit should be around 150 for polyolefins, I think
06:39.46DocScrutinizer05sounds about right, yes
06:39.47whitequarkover 200 is for polyimides and such
06:39.50whitequarkexotic
06:40.11DocScrutinizer05NFC what material that hotglue sticks are
06:41.02DocScrutinizer05btw where are you located now, after your 8000km move? (I asked that before, but forgot)
06:41.13whitequarkHK
06:41.16DocScrutinizer05aaah
06:41.22whitequarkhotglue sticks are polyethylene usually
06:41.27whitequarkwhich is a polyolefin
06:41.43DocScrutinizer05yup, feels like PE
06:42.04DocScrutinizer05even smells like PE
06:42.25whitequarkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot-melt_adhesive#Materials_used
06:42.33whitequarkthere's actually a dazzling range of compounds
06:43.20whitequarkwow, even silicone rubbers
06:43.22whitequarkamazing
06:43.29whitequarkFLUOROPOLYMERS?!
06:43.32whitequarkholy shit I want that
06:44.51DocScrutinizer05?
06:45.03whitequarkwhat ? ?
06:46.02DocScrutinizer05what for do you need teflon glue?
06:46.38whitequarkvery chemically resistant
06:46.45DocScrutinizer05particularly when it's low temp thermoplast
06:46.45whitequarkthink sealing something that contains acids, acetone, etc
06:47.02whitequarkalso: "PTFE wire repair" http://www.te.com/usa-en/about-te/news-center/S1260-hot-melt-tape.html
06:47.18DocScrutinizer05first and only thing that came to mind: seal bottles with it :-D
06:47.32DocScrutinizer05repair wires is great, indeed
06:50.18DocScrutinizer05awesome stuff, this tape
06:50.26whitequarktold you :)
06:51.02DocScrutinizer05did you see any data, like shrinking/curing temperature, or price?
06:51.38whitequarkfile:///home/whitequark/Downloads/ENG_DS_1-1773867-5_s1260_1115.pdf
06:51.47whitequark"No cracking after
06:51.49whitequark4 hr. at -55°C"
06:51.54whitequarker http://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=1-1773867-5_s1260&DocType=DS&DocLang=EN
06:51.59DocScrutinizer05aah a pdf
06:52.47whitequarkhttp://www.masterelectronics.com/te-connectivity-raychem-brand/s1260tape34inx25ftcl.html?
06:52.50whitequark$70
06:52.56whitequarkfor 25ft?
06:52.58whitequarkseems reaosnable
06:53.02DocScrutinizer05hmmph where?
06:53.15DocScrutinizer05and still no usage manual
06:53.20whitequark2nd link
06:53.23whitequarkjust wrap it and heat?
06:53.57DocScrutinizer05:-(((  >>  (10-roll minimum order, each bagged and  labeled separately)<<
06:54.45DocScrutinizer05The resource you are looking for has been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
06:56.09whitequarkhmm
06:56.19whitequarkhttp://www.masterelectronics.com/te-connectivity-raychem-brand/s1260tape34inx25ftcl.html?p=48691001&utm_source=supplyFrame&utm_medium=buyNow
06:56.23whitequarktry this
06:57.21DocScrutinizer05I found it via fronpage search
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07:05.28DocScrutinizer05Farnell claims to have it, but always redirects me to http://de.farnell.com/pro-power/tts-s12-6014-nat/heat-shrink-tubing-3-81mm-id-ptfe/dp/1726389 for S1260
07:18.50DocScrutinizer05also nice (4:1 shrink)  http://www.ebay.de/itm/RP-4800-NR10-Tyco-Raychem-Black-Heat-Shrink-Tubing-1-2mtrs-/261541039163
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18:42.37eintopfmuuuh
18:55.44DocScrutinizer05~mooo
18:55.48DocScrutinizer05~moo
18:55.48infobotmooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I'm a cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass. I'm a cow, you are too; join us all! type apt-get moo.
19:04.10rohDocScrutinizer05: https://github.com/mtoyoda/sl ;)I
19:10.17DocScrutinizer05sl ?
19:11.34roh*nod*
19:11.59rohapt-get install sl ;)
19:13.10DocScrutinizer05zypper in sl
19:13.14DocScrutinizer05;-)
19:14.12DocScrutinizer05No provider of 'sl' found.
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