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| 03:01.06 | *** topic/#qi-hardware is Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben/atusb 802.15.4 wireless, anelok and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware |
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| 14:21.03 | nicksydney | wpwrak: http://mcuoneclipse.com/2015/06/17/tinyk20-new-board-with-micro-sd-card/ |
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| 15:48.51 | wpwrak | oh dear: http://avherald.com/h?article=48833089&opt=0 |
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| 16:13.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 16:13.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | pilot, how dull could you be to not notice a cat sitting on the wing of your UL |
| 16:21.10 | kyak | poor thing |
| 16:21.21 | kyak | but what an adventure! |
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| 16:32.10 | wpwrak | maybe the cat hopped on after he checked. or maybe he was too busy reassuring his girlfriend. she does seem to be a bit tense. |
| 16:38.28 | kyak | so i've got that phone with 2A charger (out of the box). Would it be bad if i charge it with 1A charger? |
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| 17:14.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | possibly |
| 17:14.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends on the charger signaling |
| 17:15.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and whether the phone cares about such thing or simply assumes 2A |
| 17:15.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | absolutely worst case your charger will go up in flames |
| 17:16.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | more likely the charger will cut out on OC prot and no charging happens at all |
| 17:16.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ideally the phone notices and reduces charge current accordingly so charger is happy |
| 17:18.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | simply test it |
| 17:18.32 | kyak | ok, so i better buy another 2A charger :) thanks! |
| 17:18.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | when the charger gets very hot, sth is odd and you should stop the experiment |
| 17:19.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise just see if it charges to full in acceptable time |
| 17:19.36 | kyak | if everything's fine, it should charge for approx. two times longer? |
| 17:20.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's probably safe to assume that all chargers are short / OC resilient |
| 17:20.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | err not even 2 times |
| 17:20.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | the 2A take effect only during initial maybe 30min |
| 17:21.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | after that the charge current dropped to a level that doesn't matter for 1A vs 2A |
| 17:21.23 | kyak | oh, i rememeberd i have an usb-in-the-middle kinf of thing that can show current |
| 17:21.34 | kyak | i'll measure how much it actually consumes |
| 17:21.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 17:22.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | keep in mind that the current depends on discharge level of battery |
| 17:22.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | only from 0% to maybe 15% it will charge with maximum current |
| 17:22.56 | kyak | ok, i got it |
| 17:23.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | after that the charge current drops more or less linearly to 0 when battery full |
| 17:23.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why 2A charger is never twice as fast as 1A |
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| 17:24.07 | kyak | if i don't discharge to less than 20%, i probably won't need those 2A |
| 17:24.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | it is more like 1.2 times |
| 17:24.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, exactly |
| 17:24.44 | kyak | ok, thanks for your advice |
| 17:24.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | the 20% however are a number you need to evaluate by experiment |
| 17:25.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be 30% or even 50% |
| 17:25.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | depends on battery and phone circuit |
| 17:26.21 | kyak | and that's what i'll find out using that usb thing |
| 17:26.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, excellent plan |
| 17:27.02 | kyak | http://portablesolarpanels.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/AboveTEK-USB-Power-Meter-Voltage-Tester-Current-Monitor-USB-20-30-Volt-Amp-Reader-Multimeter-LED-Screen-Portable-Durable-mV-mA-Measurement-Solar-Panel-Voltmeter-Battery-Power-Bank-Ampmeter-Wall-Charge-0-3.jpg |
| 17:27.10 | kyak | it looks liek this |
| 17:27.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) thanks! |
| 17:30.16 | kyak | at 60%, it draws 1.05A, meaning thatit maxes out this charger at this moment |
| 17:30.50 | kyak | i should measure with the 2A one |
| 17:31.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | it may stay at that level down to 0%, when the phone actually notices that it's the charger's maximum |
| 17:31.05 | kyak | which i don't have at hand at the moment -\ |
| 17:31.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | the phone has at least 2 ways to detect this |
| 17:31.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | up to anybody's guess if it actually does any of the both |
| 17:32.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | or up to your tests to prove yay or nay |
| 17:32.46 | kyak | one way i'm guessing is from software, by measuring how charge is changing. .What's the other? |
| 17:33.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | one way is to detect voltage drop of charger when it maxes out. The other is by signaling which is done via D+/- lines |
| 17:33.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | the latter is the more commonly used method |
| 17:34.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually there are two or three different variants of it |
| 17:34.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~#neo900 bd |
| 17:34.34 | infobot | i guess #neo900 bd is http://neo900.org/stuff/block-diagrams/neo900/neo900.html the very fine and detailled Block Diagram, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1445200#post1445200 |
| 17:34.42 | kyak | this usb-in-the-middle thing might affect the D+/- lines though |
| 17:34.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | check the charger chip datasheet |
| 17:34.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O that would be bad |
| 17:35.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | (datasheet) it has a nice sum up of how the signaling works |
| 17:37.18 | kyak | ha, it's up to tests then :) |
| 17:37.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | the voltage drop method basically works like do increase-current until delta-voltage>0.4V; decrease current by one step |
| 17:39.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | this method is _not_ safe. some chagers have no voltage drop and still they overheat |
| 17:40.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | rare but possible |
| 17:41.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | some notebooks are like this, they don't have voltage drop on USB port but simply break on overcurrent |
| 17:41.19 | kyak | it doesn't seem to use this method, the current and voltage are pretty stable |
| 17:42.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, it's not a commonly used method, as I said above |
| 17:42.17 | kyak | it heats up, but doesn't burn hand |
| 17:42.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | most common method is D+/- resistor network. Closely followed by D+/- short |
| 17:42.53 | kyak | i guess when it burns hands, it's too late :P |
| 17:44.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's quite possible that your 1A charger has a voltage drop to 4V or even 3.5V on >1A current, and that automatically reduces the current the phone _can_ draw |
| 17:44.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | can you test the voltage? |
| 17:45.09 | kyak | the usb device shows 5.1- 5.2 V |
| 17:45.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | it *should* be 5V +/- a few |
| 17:45.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's great then |
| 17:46.09 | kyak | so voltage drop is basically a protection from overcurrent? |
| 17:46.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | rather a natural physical consequence of overcurrent |
| 17:46.54 | kyak | ah yeah, makes sense |
| 17:47.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | not always though. See blowfuse |
| 17:48.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | it blows when you connect too many heaters to your mains outlets, without voltage drop from 230V to 150V or whatever |
| 17:48.18 | wpwrak | blowfuses drop the voltage, too ... :) |
| 17:48.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | laptops work in a similar way |
| 17:48.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | some at least |
| 17:53.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://portablesolarpanels.co/product/abovetek-usb-power-meter-voltage-tester-current-monitor-usb-2-0-3-0-volt-amp-reader-multimeter-led-screen-portable-durable-mv-ma-measurement-solar-panel-voltmeter-battery-power-bank-ampmeter/ is a great gadget |
| 17:53.53 | kyak | i'm now getting all the phones i have at home and measuring their charge current :) |
| 17:58.51 | kyak | older nokia phone, charged it in the morning, now it wouldn't even start charging, "battery full". In your face, android! |
| 18:43.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | wpwrak: the cat was *inside* the wing |
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| 19:10.32 | wpwrak | whoa. sloppy fabrication process ! :) |
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| 19:41.12 | wpwrak | but indeed. good spotting ! that also explains why he never saw it coming :) |
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| 20:02.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, another 10h PC nonstop. time for a break |
| 20:03.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | you know sth is wrong with your life when the only two times you leave flat during the week are to buy new milk for coffee |
| 20:04.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm actually grateful we have no delivery service for groceries here |
| 20:09.11 | wpwrak | in joergtown, there is a city-wide pipe system for water (operates only once per week) and one for milk (non-stop), and coffee is traded by 100 kg bags |
| 20:17.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I prefer a third pipe system ;-) |
| 20:17.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | Rohrpost |
| 20:30.39 | whitequark | wpwrak: I've spent quite a few minutes trying to think of a way to safely transfer milk city-wide |
| 20:30.45 | whitequark | until I realized what "joergtown" means |
| 21:06.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hzM8IJnb2M |
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