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| 13:36.48 | iamarto | hello everyone |
| 13:36.55 | iamarto | I have a tricky question |
| 13:37.10 | iamarto | I've always trusted Intel HD graphics chips on laptops |
| 13:37.14 | iamarto | because they don't heat up |
| 13:37.24 | iamarto | my 7 year old sony vaio works like new |
| 13:37.28 | iamarto | never had problems with it |
| 13:37.40 | iamarto | because obviously Intel HD graphics chipsets require no fans on board |
| 13:37.56 | iamarto | however, in 2015.. I was wondering, did Nvidia or ATI did anything new in new laptops |
| 13:38.01 | iamarto | to avoid heating up? |
| 13:38.11 | iamarto | Or should I stick with Intel HD 5500? |
| 13:38.15 | pcercuei | not really the best channel to ask that |
| 13:38.26 | pcercuei | "hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben/atusb 802.15.4 wireless, anelok and other community driven hw projects" |
| 13:38.53 | iamarto | it's related to hardware? |
| 13:39.21 | pcercuei | open hardware |
| 13:39.33 | eintopf | in my opinion, if you are no a real hardcore gamer then intel is enough. They have good power management and nice mainline linux support |
| 13:39.57 | eintopf | so intel is more open than nvidia :/ |
| 13:40.15 | eintopf | ati mainline support is also well, but not so well like intel. They do more than nvidia |
| 13:40.18 | eintopf | nvidia do nothing |
| 13:40.18 | iamarto | I am not a hardcore gamer but I often like to play BF4 |
| 13:40.35 | eintopf | then you are a windows user? |
| 13:40.36 | iamarto | I heard that HD 4400 plays BF4 but I will get the superior 5500 perhaps |
| 13:41.00 | iamarto | do more than nvidia in terms of what? |
| 13:41.02 | iamarto | FPS? |
| 13:42.23 | iamarto | me? I use both windows and Lubuntu |
| 13:42.39 | iamarto | with i3wm |
| 13:43.22 | eintopf | nvidia is good in opengl |
| 13:43.29 | eintopf | and opengl is what the name says open |
| 13:43.45 | eintopf | but I think BF4 (battlefield 4) is direct x |
| 13:43.50 | eintopf | closed things from m$ |
| 13:44.11 | eintopf | only good for gaming... |
| 13:44.17 | iamarto | i dont want to enter into this debate but obviously windows is the better gaming platform in all OSs. |
| 13:44.27 | eintopf | the complete windows os is just there to playing games, I believe :) |
| 13:44.41 | iamarto | yes |
| 13:44.49 | eintopf | yes, and I agree with that |
| 13:45.03 | eintopf | but what are games? Games are there for consuming |
| 13:45.33 | eintopf | :-) |
| 13:45.39 | iamarto | So the conclusion that Nvidia and ATI didn't fix their heating chips on laptops |
| 13:45.50 | iamarto | or they don't have chips without fans.. |
| 13:46.05 | eintopf | I think they do something, but performance is always related to do heating |
| 13:47.01 | iamarto | when I try to ask questions on ##hardware channel it says can't send to channel |
| 13:47.03 | eintopf | Sorry I don't know :( My notebook has an intel graphic and contains only one fan |
| 13:47.16 | eintopf | I think for both, cpu and graphic, over some heating pipes |
| 13:47.28 | iamarto | what about the APUs? Any Good? |
| 13:47.36 | eintopf | to talk about open hardware and graphicscards -> that doesn't exist |
| 13:47.53 | eintopf | there are no really open hardware accelerator which you can buy |
| 13:48.36 | whitequark | iamarto: you need to register with nickserv to talk on ##hardware |
| 13:48.40 | whitequark | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:48.41 | eintopf | each of them selling graphics cards with binary blobs |
| 13:49.53 | eintopf | I would ask in #drm (if this channel exists) maybe somebody can give you a buying guide which fits your use case |
| 13:59.40 | ysionneau | opengl does not mean that anything is open beside the API |
| 13:59.49 | ysionneau | you can have completely closed source opengl implementations |
| 14:00.21 | ysionneau | and the windows opengl implementations for ATI/Nvidia are not open source AFAIK |
| 14:01.12 | whitequark | of course not |
| 14:06.33 | eintopf | mhh, opengl describes an interface only. The manufactures need to implement them in some way into their hardware. But whats part of opengl that decides some open community (don't know the name now) |
| 14:06.43 | whitequark | khronos |
| 14:06.45 | eintopf | khronos group |
| 14:06.46 | eintopf | yes |
| 14:07.00 | eintopf | but they have also some interface "vendor specific" |
| 14:07.46 | eintopf | I think the vendor specific things are only there because it's hard for companies to getting something "fast" into the opengl standard |
| 14:08.09 | eintopf | then they introduce they own fancy stuff into a vendor specifc call at first |
| 14:09.33 | eintopf | but general that means, there is a open flow to bringing things into opengl |
| 14:18.04 | ysionneau | not sure it's *that* open |
| 14:18.15 | ysionneau | big companies are part of the khronos group |
| 14:18.25 | ysionneau | could I be part of it? Can I be part of the discussions? |
| 14:18.30 | ysionneau | Are discussions on a public mailing list? |
| 14:18.38 | ysionneau | I'm not sure at all :) |
| 14:22.05 | eintopf | I think "yes", but you need money _maybe_ |
| 14:25.23 | eintopf | for mailinglist not, but to visit conferences and I think you need to pay money to be part of this group |
| 14:32.17 | ysionneau | that's very open :) |
| 14:33.00 | ysionneau | that excludes all poor people, which is a big big part of the planet |
| 14:33.52 | eintopf | I don't think so, if you visit websites and learning about opengl on mailinglist and making good reviews of upcomming stuff |
| 14:33.56 | eintopf | then nvidia want U! |
| 14:34.03 | eintopf | s/want/wants/ |
| 14:34.03 | qi-bot | eintopf meant: "then nvidia wants U!" |
| 14:34.45 | ysionneau | that is nonsense to me :/ |
| 14:38.18 | eintopf | I can see that everywhere in opensource things, some great guy/girl doing nice programming -> big companies wants them -> he/she doing closed stuff but can feed his/her family |
| 14:39.33 | eintopf | I think that's one reason why google summer of code exists :) |
| 14:41.11 | pcercuei | and then, there are some who do open-source stuff and still feed their family :) |
| 14:42.29 | ysionneau | and then you have people who work for big financial companies who feed their family and destroy others and make sure inegalities are growing :) |
| 14:42.56 | ysionneau | bug I guess we are moving away from "opengl not very open" topic :p |
| 14:43.35 | ysionneau | It's just a group of powerful companies that have to agree about such things for interoperability purpose |
| 14:48.09 | eintopf | it's not companies |
| 14:48.14 | eintopf | as well universities |
| 14:48.24 | eintopf | s/not/not just/ |
| 14:48.44 | eintopf | students, hobby opengl fpga hackers |
| 14:49.17 | eintopf | oh, a own fpga graphic card architecture... like openrisc |
| 14:50.15 | eintopf | s/a own/an pwn/ |
| 14:50.15 | qi-bot | eintopf meant: "oh, an pwn fpga graphic card architecture... like openrisc" |
| 14:50.20 | eintopf | grml, an own |
| 14:50.32 | ysionneau | to become a contributor to Khronos group you have to pay $15,000 per year |
| 14:50.36 | ysionneau | I don't call this open |
| 14:51.00 | eintopf | then you are member only |
| 14:51.13 | eintopf | what they people communicate it's not closed |
| 14:51.37 | ysionneau | but you don't get to vote :p |
| 14:52.41 | ysionneau | this just has nothing to do with any openness |
| 14:52.43 | ysionneau | it's just business |
| 14:53.00 | wpwrak | but it's open and non-discriminatory. any white upper-class christian is welcome :) |
| 14:53.18 | ysionneau | it's non-discriminatory to anyone who can pay $15,000 :D |
| 14:53.25 | ysionneau | (per year) |
| 14:53.41 | ysionneau | that just rules out 99% of the planet |
| 14:53.49 | ysionneau | + some 9s |
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| 14:54.08 | eintopf | when you like to build a direct x graphic card, then you need to ask microsoft to get more details about their direct x stuff, that's different in opengl |
| 14:54.44 | whitequark | actually, no |
| 14:54.45 | eintopf | and then you _must_ pay microsoft because you using their direct x |
| 14:54.49 | whitequark | also no |
| 14:54.53 | whitequark | mesa implements directx |
| 14:54.55 | whitequark | directly |
| 14:55.15 | whitequark | (and the devs say it was easier than implementing opengl) |
| 14:56.02 | eintopf | I can believe that the direct x API is open, because you need as dev the api how to use it |
| 14:56.32 | eintopf | mhh |
| 14:57.07 | eintopf | whitequark: also wine use direct x directly? I believed before that they use some opengl <-> direct x mapping |
| 14:57.13 | whitequark | wine does not |
| 14:57.21 | pcercuei | there is a branch that does |
| 14:57.35 | whitequark | it won't be useful very often because nvidia does not use mesa |
| 14:58.07 | eintopf | a yes, I know the question always from my packet-manager to decide which mesa-lib should be used (or something like that) |
| 14:58.19 | eintopf | s/a yes/ah yes/ |
| 14:58.19 | qi-bot | eintopf meant: "ah yes, I know the question always from my packet-manager to decide which mesa-lib should be used (or something like that)" |
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