| 00:51.06 | wpwrak | kyak: (3rd side) oh, there's no shortage of sides :) |
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| 19:02.40 | whitequark | DocScrutinizer05: hahahahaha |
| 19:02.41 | whitequark | http://web.ead.anl.gov/uranium/pdf/wm01semicond.pdf |
| 19:02.43 | whitequark | you'll love this |
| 19:03.09 | whitequark | VLSI ICs made out of depleted uranium oxide as an intrinsic semiconductor |
| 19:03.15 | whitequark | " The energy band gap (forbidden band gap) for uranium dioxide (UO2) lies between Si and |
| 19:03.18 | whitequark | GaAs at the optimum of the band gap vs efficiency curve (1), indicating that one should be able to use |
| 19:03.21 | whitequark | uranium oxides to make very efficient solar cells, semiconductors, or other electronic device. " |
| 19:04.42 | whitequark | apparently US DoE has a funding programme whose sole goal is to figure out where the fuck to put all the depleted uranium they have |
| 19:05.06 | whitequark | other things it produced: using it as a catalyst for ammonia synthesis; using it as a catalytic converter to decompose pollutants such as dioxins |
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| 22:06.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought they already found a 'good' use for it: ammunition, heavier than Tungsten |
| 22:07.41 | whitequark | they did, also in aircraft |
| 22:07.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | wasn't that waht they used all the time in Iraq war, to crack the tanks? |
| 22:07.53 | whitequark | those gyroscopes use tungsten balls or alternatively DU |
| 22:08.03 | whitequark | they did use it in iraq |
| 22:08.12 | whitequark | given that uranium is a heavy metal more toxic than lead... that was a real shitty idea |
| 22:08.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah |
| 22:09.11 | whitequark | actually that semiconductor idea kind of grew on me |
| 22:09.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway usage of really nasty metal oxides isn't new in electronics. I can't recall if it was beryllium-oxide or whatever that caused the "use hepa masks while mounting this power RF transistor" |
| 22:09.43 | whitequark | looks you could do very interesting things with it. it's a very high k |
| 22:09.50 | whitequark | 20 instead 10 for silicon |
| 22:10.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever is "k" |
| 22:10.08 | whitequark | which means you can make even smaller transistors. currently they use some hafnium oxide |
| 22:10.11 | whitequark | more like к |
| 22:10.16 | whitequark | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-%CE%BA_dielectric |
| 22:10.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm baffled by the "2000some kelvin" tolerance |
| 22:10.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's *awesome* |
| 22:11.04 | whitequark | yes, very refractory |
| 22:11.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | however that's most likely not taking into account any dotation |
| 22:11.32 | whitequark | molybdenum crucibles have near characteristics |
| 22:11.37 | whitequark | and are currently used for growing sapphires |
| 22:12.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | a semiconductor component not crapping out on >300°C, that for sure would be a damn useful thing |
| 22:12.30 | whitequark | re beryllium, yes, nasty stuff |
| 22:12.41 | whitequark | chronic incurable lung disease |
| 22:12.51 | whitequark | and enough to inhale it one time |
| 22:12.59 | whitequark | "The onset of symptoms can range from weeks up to tens of years from the initial exposure. In some individuals a single exposure can cause berylliosis. |
| 22:13.05 | whitequark | that's just downright evil |
| 22:13.57 | whitequark | regarding not crapping out on 300°C, that only takes into account refractory properties of the ceramic. silica is quite refractory itself |
| 22:14.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, and they made power transistors with a complete mounting plate made of beryllium oxide ceramic |
| 22:14.12 | whitequark | and in fact they did make ICs that can work at 600°C from silicon |
| 22:14.32 | whitequark | yeah. and they also used to put those into microwave oven magnetrons |
| 22:14.33 | whitequark | consumer |
| 22:15.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | fools |
| 22:15.31 | whitequark | haha this page http://www.americanberyllia.com/safety.html |
| 22:16.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | when I was a young ignorant idiot I played with mercury. I reconsidered my approach to severely dangerous metals when I was 18 though |
| 22:16.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | not only mercury, also uranium oxide |
| 22:17.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I had access to some "funny" substances back when |
| 22:17.28 | whitequark | mercury is overrated on danger scale I think. very low vapor pressure |
| 22:17.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 22:17.39 | whitequark | still probably a good idea to not touch it if you can |
| 22:17.44 | whitequark | but there's some really inane paranoia around it |
| 22:17.48 | whitequark | it's not gonna kill you in a minute |
| 22:18.03 | wpwrak | mercifully, he changed his opinion on dangerous metals before could finish developing the bomb and get his personal seat in the UN security council |
| 22:18.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | for sure not, But it's quite silly to spill the stuff in your sleeping room |
| 22:18.18 | whitequark | ... someone told me about a video from a russian mercury plant |
| 22:18.32 | whitequark | the plant director was quite fond of mercury, for example he went and put his arm into a tank full of it |
| 22:18.41 | wpwrak | whitequark: do they take a vodka and then jump into the pools ? :) |
| 22:18.49 | wpwrak | hah, good enough |
| 22:19.00 | whitequark | and about another lab which processed mercury amalgams |
| 22:19.05 | whitequark | they had tilted floor and a sink |
| 22:19.08 | whitequark | for all the spilled mercury |
| 22:19.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess jumping into a pool of mercury really hurts badly |
| 22:19.52 | wpwrak | safety tip: only use dimethylmercury and wear gloves ! |
| 22:19.58 | whitequark | lol |
| 22:20.27 | whitequark | despite all that stuff which would give OSHA an aneurysm, they'll only gain long-term neural damage in a decade or two. *shrug* |
| 22:20.42 | whitequark | mad hatters |
| 22:20.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, what really scares shit outa me is methyl mercury in vaccines, as conservation agent |
| 22:21.21 | whitequark | phased out despite no evidence for toxicity |
| 22:21.32 | whitequark | if you're talking about thiomersal |
| 22:21.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah |
| 22:21.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | used in flu vaccines onle a few years ago |
| 22:22.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | no evidence for toxicity?? |
| 22:22.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | duh! |
| 22:24.11 | wpwrak | sometimes, it may just be better to err on the safe side |
| 22:24.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal |
| 22:25.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not used in vacciens for children under age of 6 |
| 22:28.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not generally scared of mercury, I'd dip my hand into a pool of it any time. But I won't ever swallow or inject stuff that contains mercury |
| 22:29.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even homeopathic stuff |
| 22:35.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | but uranium oxide chips, dang that could fly |
| 22:35.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 22:35.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just wonder if they need immanent radiation hardening ;-) |
| 22:38.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh "airplanes", now I get it. >>Weiterhin wird abgereichertes Uran für Ausgleichsgewichte im Flugzeugbau verwendet<< |
| 22:38.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Zur Vermeidung von Kontaminationen und Strahlenbelastung wird das Uran in Gehäuse aus Stahlblech oder Aluminium eingeschweiÃt.<< |
| 22:39.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | rreally funny read: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abgereichertes_Uran |
| 22:45.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway uranium chips will not suffer from deterioration as I wondered: a half life time of 4,468 · 10^9 years |
| 22:47.24 | whitequark | yep, and that's not even depleted |
| 22:47.28 | whitequark | if i recognize the numbers correctly |
| 22:47.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | for chips they plan to deliver to the Russians they could use U237: t1/2 of 6,75 d ;-P |
| 22:48.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | 4,468 · 10^9 years is for U238 |
| 22:48.18 | whitequark | oh |
| 22:48.28 | whitequark | anyway they say that UO2 is good for rad-hard chips |
| 22:48.34 | whitequark | regardless of its own activity |
| 22:48.39 | whitequark | so i guess it will at least cancel out |
| 22:48.53 | whitequark | it's ironic isn't it |
| 22:49.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah |
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| 22:52.55 | whitequark | oh, you mention using DU as a /ballast/ in airplanes |
| 22:53.00 | whitequark | what i mean is using it in /gyroscopes/ |
| 22:53.06 | whitequark | haven't heard of ballast |
| 22:53.17 | whitequark | that sounds like a shitton of DU |
| 22:54.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | those airplane engineers must be completely nuts. Tungsten has 0.14 *higher* specific weight than uarnium |
| 22:54.56 | whitequark | I may be mixing something up |
| 22:55.03 | whitequark | but I'm fairly sure I heard of it |
| 22:55.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | tungsten: 19,3 g/cm3 ; uranium: 19,16 g/cm3 |
| 22:56.17 | whitequark | hmm |
| 22:56.36 | whitequark | no, I'm not mixing stuff up |
| 22:56.37 | whitequark | https://books.google.ru/books?id=qJArAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=depleted+uranium+gyroscope&source=bl&ots=y1JL0HzxK9&sig=2gpWM-hHBbBK7x5huyvm68HxHPI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FZnzVJGbEoaaygPNjYLgCg&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=depleted%20uranium%20gyroscope&f=false |
| 22:56.54 | whitequark | maybe it's very hard to machine tungsten into a ball? |
| 22:57.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly uranium is way easier on casting |
| 22:57.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, exactly |
| 22:57.19 | whitequark | "Depleted uranium is preferred over similarly dense metals due to its ability to be easily machined and cast as well as its relatively low cost." |
| 22:57.22 | whitequark | yeep |
| 22:57.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | idiots |
| 22:58.48 | whitequark | I dunno, tungsten is toxic as well |
| 22:59.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | for airplane ballast you wouldn't even need to machine the tungsten into any particular shape. fine dust will do |
| 22:59.30 | whitequark | and /burning/ tungsten is especially bad |
| 23:00.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Nach dem derzeitigen Wissensstand gelten Wolfram und seine Verbindungen als physiologisch unbedenklich<< |
| 23:00.48 | whitequark | enwiki says this: Tungsten interferes with molybdenum and copper metabolism and is somewhat toxic to animal life. |
| 23:00.57 | whitequark | and I've been told to avoid white smoke from TIG welding electrodes |
| 23:01.12 | whitequark | which is WO4 |
| 23:01.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I *think* they even used tungsten in antacidic medicine, to kill heliobakter or whatever |
| 23:02.18 | whitequark | well, it just needs to outweigh the costs |
| 23:02.39 | whitequark | and a stomach ulcer is pretty damn bad |
| 23:02.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | in lungs WO4 prolly isn't healthy |
| 23:03.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | oops no that been bismut I guess |
| 23:04.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ... in antacida |
| 23:04.12 | whitequark | ohhhh yes |
| 23:04.19 | whitequark | bismuth is completely inert |
| 23:04.25 | whitequark | pepto-bismol |
| 23:04.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry |
| 23:04.38 | whitequark | there's a ton of that metal in the pills |
| 23:04.50 | whitequark | in fact so much that you can extract a sizable metal slug out of some crushed pills |
| 23:05.19 | whitequark | reduce it with e.g. aluminium in basic solution |
| 23:05.37 | whitequark | http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2012-07/gray-matter-extracting-bismuth-pepto-bismol-tablets |
| 23:05.48 | whitequark | 180 pills = 24g of metal |
| 23:06.55 | whitequark | DocScrutinizer05: regarding drugs, we have something for treating trypanosomiasis |
| 23:06.59 | whitequark | called melarsoprol |
| 23:07.20 | whitequark | it's literally poisoning yourself with arsenic voluntarily and hoping that the parasite dies earlier than you |
| 23:08.18 | whitequark | "Among clinicians, it is colloquially referred to as "arsenic in antifreeze"." |
| 23:08.32 | whitequark | and you put that into your veins |
| 23:09.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ugh |
| 23:10.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | friggin parasites |
| 23:10.02 | whitequark | now the fun part, the parasite actually developed resistance to it |
| 23:13.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh |
| 23:13.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | friggin parasites |
| 23:13.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>Inzwischen ist es Forschern gelungen, einen preiswerten Wirkstoff zu entwickeln, der keine Nebenwirkungen zeigt. Allerdings wurde dieser bisher nur an Mäusen getestet.<< |
| 23:13.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/meldung-forschung-aktuell.678.de.html?drn:news_id=86856 |
| 23:14.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems it didn't pan out, eh? 2010 |
| 23:14.48 | whitequark | why? clinical testing takes decades |
| 23:14.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | err yes, that too |
| 23:15.02 | whitequark | i don't think you can go from mice to retail in just 5 years |
| 23:15.14 | whitequark | ten is more like it, especially if the drug is 'good' |
| 23:15.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I'd expect to hear more recent news |
| 23:15.46 | whitequark | you could try to hunt down the uni or pharma website, they sometimes post info about clinical trials |
| 23:15.55 | whitequark | actually there should be a database of those, somewhere |
| 23:16.23 | whitequark | wait. "Thursday, April 1, 2010" |
| 23:16.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-S |
| 23:16.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | pathetic, if ... |
| 23:16.48 | whitequark | that would be really cruel |
| 23:17.15 | whitequark | oh, no |
| 23:17.18 | whitequark | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20360736 |
| 23:17.20 | whitequark | really on april 1 |
| 23:18.28 | whitequark | also works on leishmania, cool |
| 23:19.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25125080 |
| 23:20.08 | whitequark | yes |
| 23:20.14 | whitequark | more interesting is this: http://journals.plos.org/plosntds/article?id=10.1371/journal.pntd.0001625 |
| 23:20.18 | whitequark | 2012, still "pre-clinically |
| 23:20.30 | whitequark | which means I guess that 2010 study did not get even to phase I |
| 23:22.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | afk, TV calling ;-) |
| 23:32.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((expect to hear more recent news)) actually I did, somebody using some plant or fungus (extract?) to treat malaria |
| 23:33.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | supposed to yield great potential for a cheap and low-risk malaria treatment for the masses |
| 23:33.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think I heard of it in a NANO report some 6 to 12 months ago |
| 23:33.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be related |
| 23:34.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course that stuff was very early TCM-style medicine |
| 23:35.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | the report didn't claim it works, only that it might have potential |
| 23:36.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |