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| 10:37.16 | wpwrak | whitequark: (Nemtsov) what's the public reaction ? |
| 10:40.23 | kyak | define "public" |
| 10:41.18 | larsc | 'the peoples' opinion |
| 10:46.19 | kyak | that's quite naive to assume that there is a common opinion |
| 10:55.28 | viric | the opinion of the best people |
| 10:55.34 | viric | :) |
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| 12:03.32 | wpwrak | the public reaction may very well consist of multiple contradictory opinions |
| 12:04.10 | wpwrak | and "public" would be what is in evidence. well, if private reactions would differ widely from public ones, that would also be interesting |
| 12:11.38 | wpwrak | e.g., do most people just shrug it off ? do they think this was a political killing ? do they think he had some shady business ? ... |
| 12:13.53 | kyak | how can one know what most people think? |
| 12:14.38 | kyak | at best, one can know what people around him think |
| 12:14.53 | kyak | and usually these people are similar-minded with him |
| 12:20.55 | kyak | this is very similar when someone concludes that results of elections are bullshit because he, his family and people around him voted for another party |
| 12:24.31 | kyak | even if knew opinions of 10000 people, this can't be exprapolated to 145 mln population of Russia |
| 12:25.32 | kyak | and this is very different from polls in the streets where you can ask opinion of random people |
| 12:25.45 | kyak | people that one actually knows are not random at all |
| 12:29.24 | viric | what's your picture of this killing? You are the most relevant to us, because you are here. :) |
| 12:29.55 | viric | whatever you say will become "one russian I know says ..." |
| 12:36.16 | wpwrak | "according to a source from russia" :) |
| 12:36.43 | wpwrak | kyak: so i take it there were no major public reactions. protest marches or the like ? |
| 12:38.53 | larsc | the guy was organzing a protest march, no? |
| 13:22.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | (Nemtsov) at least I heard he usually had bodyguards and the killing happened in a rare time window where they were not around, so conclusion is that the killers did quite some surveillance of his habits, for several days, to spot that window where it was feasible. |
| 13:24.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | other musing was about distance to Kremlin and whether the short distance rather is an argument pro or contra Putin being involved in this |
| 13:24.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like futile nonsense to me |
| 13:29.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | the question is: is "the public reaction" any relevant, for whom? |
| 13:32.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | Putin doesn't allow opposition to grow too popular. And any bad things happening to opposition seem not to trigger significantly more opposition. So from this perspective the Nemtsov killing is prolly as negligible as the public reaction on it |
| 13:38.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | in my book it's pretty similar to the early 1930s in Germany. Not everybody was already supporting the NSDAP, but the maybe 10% activists dominated everything. And yes, Putin also searching good relations to reactionary/fascist groups in whole Europe - despite (maybe rightfully) blaming Kiew politics for the same fascism. See whom he/separatists invited as observers of "elections" in Krim: Front Nationale and similar groups |
| 13:41.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | funny detail: those extremist groups all over Europe are receiving financing/credits from russian banks since nobody else wants to finance them |
| 13:49.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | somehow Putin seems to me like a thief on the market, pointing in an arbitrary direction and shouting "Catch the thief! Catch the thief!" and then picking the stuff he wants while everybody looks/runs the direction he pointed at |
| 13:53.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | funny idea: maybe Ukraine was better off asking China directly - instead of EU - for money and weapons |
| 14:02.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | would you like watching some "western propaganda"? http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/beitrag/video/2341864/Mensch-Putin%2521#/beitrag/video/2341864/Mensch-Putin! |
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| 15:12.41 | kyak | wpwrak: let's wait till tomorrow. There was an opposition demonstration planned for tomorrow (irrelevant to this kill). It seems that the subject of this demonstration will now be biased |
| 15:13.31 | kyak | from "putin is evil" to "putin is evil, because he is behind this" :) |
| 15:16.21 | kyak | viric: if i were to have my own opinion on this, it must have been supported by proven facts |
| 15:16.56 | kyak | unfortunately, there are no such facts by now, the investigation is in its early stage |
| 15:18.09 | viric | kyak: on that you may be quite alone. Wait for more direct facts to raise an opinion |
| 15:19.20 | whitequark | the investigation, which will be of course fair and unbiased |
| 15:19.44 | kyak | whatever it will be, there are not other options |
| 15:19.59 | whitequark | there are /no/ options, not no /other/ options |
| 15:20.19 | viric | you would know better if you were involved in the killing :) |
| 15:20.27 | whitequark | there is no reason to suspect that the investigation will produce results that can be trusted more than idle speculation on the internet |
| 15:22.46 | kyak | i think you are being too categorical |
| 15:23.28 | whitequark | i was much less categorical until i looked at how the kirovles case proceeded |
| 15:23.46 | viric | whitequark categorical? :D |
| 16:15.07 | wpwrak | kyak: ah yes, the protest should be interesting |
| 16:17.29 | wpwrak | i'm curious because a bit over a month ago, in argentina, a prosecutor who has accused the president (and others) of trying to cover up the amia bombing and who was supposed to speak the next day in congress, was found dead in his apartment, in what looked like a suicide |
| 16:19.20 | wpwrak | the evening after this made the news, there were impromptu protests. then, during the next weeks, there was a lot of extremely confusing maneuvering, with government officials - including the president - jumping to all sort of conclusions, contradicting them selves, contradicting facts, attacking left and forth, |
| 16:20.05 | wpwrak | including the speaker if the cabinet on tv ripping a part a newspaper supposedly containing lies, which were proven as fact the next day, and so on. |
| 16:21.28 | wpwrak | a few days ago, there was then the 2nd protest match, organized by prosecutors, which got some 300 kpeople in buenos aires alone on the street, despite conflicting with work hours and pouring rain. |
| 16:22.42 | wpwrak | and of course there are opinion polls that all agree that most people think that the government is somehow guilty, suspecting it was either a cleverly disguised assassination or an "induced" suicide. |
| 16:24.57 | wpwrak | all that, nota bene, without there ever having been any direct evidence for "foul play", just from the circumstances. so that shows rather clearly what people think of that government. |
| 16:25.38 | wpwrak | now, russians may not be quite so hot-headed, but i would still expect some visible reactions. |
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| 17:30.52 | kyak | wpwrak: i didn't know about this story in argentina. But thinking about it, this "suicide" (whether is quotes or not) is less advantageous for the president and more advantageous to those who want tomake the conflict uncontrollable. |
| 17:31.25 | kyak | argentina is doing quite independent (from usa) things these days |
| 17:31.38 | kyak | so this is something to think about |
| 17:32.08 | kyak | maybe there is even the third side |
| 17:32.19 | kyak | not the argentina president, not the prosecutors |
| 17:41.30 | kyak | i just watched "The Last Supper (1995)" |
| 17:42.03 | kyak | quite interesting :) |
| 17:43.00 | kyak | the world is much more complicated than it seems |
| 17:46.59 | pcercuei | it looks already pretty complicated to me |
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| 22:54.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | wpwrak: (protest march) seems in Mocow they wanna do an (even allowed) funeral procession, anticipated number of participants: 50k |
| 22:56.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | wpwrak: the problem is that in Russia there's quite a number of people who believe literally everything Mr Putin says. The same people who probably killed Nemtsov and do Anti Maidan protests |
| 22:58.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | "advantageous to those who want tomake the conflict uncontrollable" was an explanation that already came up |
| 22:58.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | in Russia for the killing, today |
| 22:59.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | "Islamists objecting solidarity with Charly Hebdo" was another nice one |
| 23:01.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | "make the conflict uncontrollable" -- I guess that been Putin with playing the extreme nationalist card |
| 23:06.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | somebody willing to review and comment on a schematics draft? IR detector, for signals in the kHz range (like CIR, IrDA SIR) http://wstaw.org/m/2015/02/28/plasma-desktopJh1893.png |
| 23:08.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | the resistor dimensioning is just ballpark numbers |
| 23:08.27 | whitequark | audio? |
| 23:09.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | IrDA |
| 23:09.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah, yes. Some additional feature for "advanced signal analysis" |
| 23:10.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | to ADC of audio codec |
| 23:11.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | C1 might be not needed or even spoiling the circuit. Meant for speedup |
| 23:12.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | the signal of the pgotodiode is in the 500mV range |
| 23:12.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | photodiode |
| 23:12.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be less |
| 23:12.59 | whitequark | hmm why is it forward biased? |
| 23:13.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | but the circuit is deliberately designed for low sensitivity |
| 23:13.05 | whitequark | aren't photodiodes meant to be reverse biased? |
| 23:13.25 | whitequark | so that you'd have a linear characteristic everywhere |
| 23:13.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | (froward biased) actually it shouldn't be biased at all, but I admit I haven't checked the correct polarity |
| 23:13.42 | whitequark | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Photodiode_operation.png |
| 23:13.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's meant to operate as photocell |
| 23:14.03 | whitequark | hmm |
| 23:14.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | the bias is an effect that's actually not been intended originally |
| 23:14.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | bias via R5 that is |
| 23:15.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | NB R6 is 1k |
| 23:16.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/random-media/IR-photodiode/BPW34+1kR_electron-flash.jpg |
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| 23:18.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, prolly the diode needs to get reversed (again) |
| 23:18.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | originally I had it reverse biased |
| 23:19.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | though "bias" is ~ 1/22 of 2V |
| 23:20.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually of threshold (R3*R4]) which is ~500mV |
| 23:21.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | so 25mV bias |
| 23:22.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | the idea rather is that any voltage the diode produces from "offset" by ambient light average level will adhust the threshold reference voltage on C2 |
| 23:22.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | adjust |
| 23:24.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway regarding polarity of diaode: it shall crate positive voltage on opamp negative input when exposed to light |
| 23:24.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | create* |
| 23:25.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | the BPW34 creates up to 7V (!) over the parallel 1kR load |
| 23:25.46 | whitequark | huh |
| 23:26.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless I messed up with my scope's prpbes ;-) |
| 23:26.36 | whitequark | well... 7mA@7V. 49mW |
| 23:26.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 23:26.47 | whitequark | you could probably power the whole device in sleep mode from just that diode |
| 23:27.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe, I just would need constant electron flashing |
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| 23:28.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | more "normal" values to be seen in http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/random-media/IR-photodiode/DS1Z_QuickPrint2.jpg |
| 23:29.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is my TV remote to BPW34+1kR |
| 23:29.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | with a maybe 15cm distance |
| 23:29.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's exactly the sort of signal the circuit is meant for |
| 23:30.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/random-media/IR-photodiode/DS1Z_QuickPrint3.jpg |
| 23:32.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/random-media/IR-photodiode/DS1Z_QuickPrint5.jpg |
| 23:34.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly the threshold should get adjusted rather to 50mV |
| 23:34.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | not to 500 like in the diagram's notes |
| 23:39.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | so R3 470k and R5 10k would be more like it |
| 23:42.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | we need to check the definitive values for the resistors with the photodiode and mounting we plan for |
| 23:43.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | background: http://neo900.org/stuff/papers/ir.pdf |
| 23:44.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | "2.6 Received signal processing" redesign |
| 23:45.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | we won't use HPF anymore |
| 23:46.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | (except the ~10s timing constant introduced by C2 and R5 for the offset compensation) |
| 23:47.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | we got a excellent S/N ratio on photon level, by the usecase of max 10cm distance between sender and our receiver. So we don't need much of a filter |
