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| 13:55.24 | wpwrak | oh, the siren's call ... https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/voltera/voltera-your-circuit-board-prototyping-machine |
| 13:56.13 | wpwrak | resolution is one step too coarse to be really useful, though |
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| 14:51.52 | eintopf | that's what I need instead dealing with chemicals and aquariums |
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| 15:06.07 | larsc | multilayer! |
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| 15:07.42 | wpwrak | i guess that could be feasible: 2 layers on one side, then flip and do 2 layers on the other side. well, maybe you need to update the chemistry a little, but i'd think that it can't be too far from working |
| 15:08.18 | wpwrak | eintopf: and nobody needs an aquarium :) just a flat-bottomed glass container will do nicely for etching |
| 15:10.03 | eintopf | at my university they have some aquarium stuff |
| 15:10.13 | eintopf | or they had |
| 15:10.27 | eintopf | now they have a new machine |
| 15:10.44 | eintopf | milling machine |
| 15:10.48 | xiangfu | wpwrak: Hi |
| 15:10.52 | xiangfu | we made 10 Anelok board. |
| 15:11.01 | xiangfu | haven't make it boot to UI. |
| 15:11.47 | wpwrak | (10 board) kewl ! |
| 15:11.59 | eintopf | cool :-) |
| 15:12.13 | wpwrak | (no UI) not so cool ... were you able to fix the reversed connectors ? |
| 15:13.04 | xiangfu | 5 of them was the correct one. |
| 15:13.20 | wpwrak | nice :) |
| 15:13.32 | wpwrak | and DFU works on these ? |
| 15:13.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | wpwrak: (Voltera) we (neo900) can learn a lot from how the KS is done, at large |
| 15:13.52 | xiangfu | 5 of them was have this reversed issue. but I use them without any problem by using reversed USB cable. :-) that is easy compare to soldering the connector. |
| 15:14.24 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, make videos, videos, videos :) |
| 15:14.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | that too |
| 15:14.43 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: but if you want to learn from a true master, try wemagin (on kickstarter) |
| 15:15.22 | wpwrak | (reversed cable) just don't confuse the cables :) |
| 15:15.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | i'm also trying to learn on how they pulled off (and still (plan to) do) the whole project. Buzzword "move to Shenzen" for example |
| 15:16.29 | wpwrak | xiangfu: btw, for desoldering tricky parts, this works really great: http://www.chipquik.com/ |
| 15:16.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | mentors |
| 15:16.55 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: i wonder how they did the initial financing. lots of development, relocation, and such, that's not cheap |
| 15:17.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 15:17.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's obsolutely non-visible |
| 15:17.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the gial of 70k USD also seems pathetic |
| 15:17.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | goal |
| 15:17.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw |
| 15:18.14 | wpwrak | oh, some projects go to KS only because they want the PR |
| 15:18.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | xiangfu: would you happen to know companies who can do semi-complex steel mech parts in "low" (1000) quantities? |
| 15:18.27 | xiangfu | wpwrak: it stop at here: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/xiangfu/anelok/tmp/Anelok-booting.jpg |
| 15:18.49 | wpwrak | also, a very high goal may look scary. so they may set it as low as they can, but hope to get a lot more |
| 15:19.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and that's exactly the sort of stuff I try to learn |
| 15:19.43 | wpwrak | xiangfu: oh, but that looks great ! are you sure it doesn't work ? :) |
| 15:20.12 | wpwrak | maybe you need to tune the sensor a bit. after all, you don't have a case, so the threshold is way too low |
| 15:20.16 | xiangfu | wpwrak: (chipquik) Yes. right now we have a lab. we have all those tools. |
| 15:21.08 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: what do you mean on 'semi-complex '? |
| 15:21.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | moment please |
| 15:21.48 | wpwrak | DocScrutinizer05: another one: don't set a very long campaign duration. seems that projects that chose > 1 months are less likely to get funded than those that pick 1 month |
| 15:22.10 | xiangfu | wpwrak: (sensor) Yes. I also think this is my problem. because the cursor of the sensor seems not works well. |
| 15:22.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | xiangfu: http://www.gultek.eu/mobile-phone-spare-parts/sliding-unit-assembly/n900.html |
| 15:22.56 | wpwrak | xiangfu: the parameters are set with the expectation that there are about 1-1.5 mm of plastic and adhesive between sensor and finger |
| 15:23.23 | wpwrak | so you'd have to "hover" over the sensor to trigger it correctly. pretty difficult to get this right :) |
| 15:23.55 | wpwrak | you can try to put a ~ 1 mm sheet of plastic on the sensor. that should help a lot. |
| 15:24.11 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: ok. I think it can be done in low quantities. I just worry about the desing file format in china. I need ask around first. |
| 15:24.14 | wpwrak | or you can try tuning the threshold. DEVCFG is your friend :) |
| 15:25.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | yigreat! many thanks! :-) |
| 15:25.30 | xiangfu | wpwrak: thanks. I will try that tomorrow. |
| 15:25.48 | xiangfu | s/desing/design/ |
| 15:26.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | xiangfu: great! many thanks! :-) |
| 15:26.31 | wpwrak | but it looks great. you're well past the difficult phase now |
| 15:26.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | xiangfu: still trying to find a better photo |
| 15:26.41 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: please let me. that is the design file you are using? or we just copy from this N900? |
| 15:27.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | just copy. I can provide originals |
| 15:27.24 | xiangfu | sorry. I mean "please tell me that is the design file format/design software for this part" |
| 15:27.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe that stuff already is available even |
| 15:27.44 | xiangfu | (just copy) ok. |
| 15:28.00 | xiangfu | we just copy this N900? |
| 15:28.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | this particular part yes |
| 15:28.32 | wpwrak | alas, we don't have design files. but we have 3D scans that may be useful to get started: http://neo900.org/stuff/werner/scans/ |
| 15:29.04 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.abxSfI&id=13560310048&ns=1&abbucket=4#detail :D |
| 15:29.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/git/?p=scans;a=blob_plain;hb=HEAD;f=pics/large/n900-disp-open-bottom-top.jpg |
| 15:29.24 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: I don't know if he have 1000 of them. but we can buy some first. |
| 15:29.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | xiangfu: YES! exactly !! :-)) |
| 15:30.20 | wpwrak | and here is a little mesh viewer for the STL files, with a half-decent measurement function: http://neo900.org/git/?p=misc;a=tree;f=meme;hb=HEAD |
| 15:30.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | xiangfu: please see how many you can order for us. Many thanks in advance :-) |
| 15:30.30 | xiangfu | hmm... 23:29. so. they are not online right now. I will ask them tomorrow. see how many they have. |
| 15:30.41 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: Yes. sure. |
| 15:30.47 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: nope. |
| 15:31.06 | wpwrak | (¥ part) yeah ! :) |
| 15:31.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | we might not need a 1000 if we can get less. Maybe we get away with a 400 or sth. any amount is better than no part at all |
| 15:31.34 | wpwrak | "original skateboard" :) |
| 15:32.46 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: on the webpage. it says they have 96 of them. but it may not sure. |
| 15:33.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's very usual |
| 15:33.09 | xiangfu | wpwrak: :) |
| 15:33.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are very low quantities available at several places - maybe |
| 15:34.11 | xiangfu | (http://neo900.org/stuff/werner/scans/) nice documents. |
| 15:36.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/fbb7bbc011 ohmy, what to answer to this? |
| 15:36.42 | wpwrak | nothing, for now :) |
| 15:36.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | did this guy subscribe to newsletter? Or what? |
| 15:37.35 | wpwrak | ah, could be that he's receiving something. |
| 15:38.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | xiangfu: Neo900 project needs a few more rare parts too. Like e.g. the resistive touchscreen aka digitizer. When you happen to run into offers for other N900 spare parts stuff than just the slider mech, please at least drop a note, we might need it |
| 15:39.34 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: ok. |
| 15:39.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks! :-) |
| 15:41.19 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: Yes. just quick search the touchscreen. that is easy to buy from thise semi-complex board (original skateboard :) |
| 15:41.40 | xiangfu | s/from thise /compare to this/ |
| 15:41.41 | qi-bot | xiangfu meant: "DocScrutinizer05: Yes. just quick search the touchscreen. that is easy to buy compare to thissemi-complex board (original skateboard :)" |
| 15:42.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | for a hint: http://originalspareparts.com.ua/phones/nokia/n900#c we need basically all except the electronics/PCB part |
| 15:43.43 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: maybe we just buy the real phone then remove this PCB. |
| 15:44.04 | xiangfu | the whole phone. sorry. (I should goto sleep :( ) |
| 15:44.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | if this is possible then yes. I didn't find any sources for original phones in quantities |
| 15:44.33 | xiangfu | the touch screen is expensive them the whole phone in taobao.com |
| 15:44.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | we can buy single unit for ~100USD |
| 15:45.03 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: I believe we can buy hundred |
| 15:45.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | but we can't find sources for 10 units |
| 15:45.21 | xiangfu | hundreds |
| 15:45.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | hundred would be a great start but we need more, so if we can't get more, we already want to use alternatives from start, like manufacturing the parts |
| 15:46.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | we calculate with a batch of 500 to 1000 |
| 15:46.14 | xiangfu | because old electric devices all goes to China. :D |
| 15:46.35 | xiangfu | I believe all used Server PSU was in China. :) |
| 15:46.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | when we can buy a 500 phones, I'd be more than happy |
| 15:47.16 | xiangfu | ok. I will let you know tomorrow. that is each to find out. 500. |
| 15:47.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | mayn thanks, and don't hurry |
| 15:47.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | many* |
| 15:48.37 | xiangfu | it is all used phone. just quick search |
| 15:49.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | as long as very good condition, used phones are OK |
| 15:49.17 | xiangfu | ok. |
| 15:49.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | we don't expect to find large batches of unused new ones anyway |
| 15:50.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | many N900 phones are refurbished |
| 15:50.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | so all the parts we are interested in might actually be new |
| 15:50.45 | xiangfu | recently I know how they buy old/used devices. it is sell by 'container'. when the ship arrived. they open the container. then named the price. |
| 15:51.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow |
| 15:52.07 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: (N900) Yes. |
| 15:52.47 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: I can buy 5 for 10 N900 first. the Chinese New Year comes in 7 days. so all China will stop. |
| 15:52.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are several sources of parts for N900 in Hong Kong and mainland China, but the quality and actual quantity available is usually questionable and hard to evaluate when I sit here in Europe, You being closer to those sources and speaking their langiuage is our best chance to pull this off |
| 15:53.15 | xiangfu | maybe I can goto Shenzhen after Chinese new year. then we can easy to find out if the device was in good condition and if they have 500 or such. |
| 15:53.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah yes, chinese new year. I know it :-D |
| 15:53.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like an excellent plan |
| 15:54.06 | xiangfu | 18 Feb. |
| 15:54.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | xiangfu: please consider this a honest order from Neo900 UG |
| 15:54.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | eventually you invoice us |
| 15:54.40 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: ok. |
| 15:54.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | your help is much appreciated |
| 15:54.57 | xiangfu | (http://originalspareparts.com.ua/phones/nokia/n900#c) that is a lot of parts. :) |
| 15:55.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, indeed |
| 15:55.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | the "case parts" come in a plethora of colors for ~15USD, even with keymat |
| 15:56.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is ~80% of those many parts |
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| 15:59.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Cell-Phone-Replacement-Parts-Full-Housing_641217698.html |
| 16:00.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | xiangfu: beware, there's also a Nikia N900 *LUMIA* device which is a different product |
| 16:00.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia* |
| 16:01.52 | xiangfu | with Windows inside. |
| 16:01.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://all-spares.com/en/Housing-for-Nokia-N900-White-Copy-AAA.php |
| 16:02.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, with crappy windows inside ;-) |
| 16:03.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://all-spares.com/en/products/Outer-Housing-Parts-for-Nokia-N900-Cell-phones-Black--8b36d6313434d73134303231d1b130b23431b6d0a9563254b23232aa8d0500 |
| 16:04.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.sunsky-online.com/view/233914/Full+Housing+Cover+for+Nokia+N900++Original+Version.htm |
| 16:04.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | etc |
| 16:04.41 | xiangfu | DocScrutinizer05: Yes. |
| 16:05.32 | xiangfu | hve to sleep. |
| 16:05.46 | xiangfu | see you. |
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| 20:28.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | lol, fun fact: superhet tuned to FM 94.3MHz creates a GPS interference |
| 20:35.52 | eintopf | i don't understand :) |
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| 20:51.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~1575.42 / (94.3 + 10.7) |
| 20:51.46 | infobot | 15.004 |
| 20:52.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | so 15th harmonic of LO will interfere with GPS L1 |
| 20:53.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | given the superhet uses high side injection (LO > RF) |
| 20:55.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | just seen a car radio tuned to 94.3MHz making GPS navi fail |
| 21:02.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | you might wonder how a Local Oscillator supposed to generate a sine wave can produce a 15th harmonic, but keep in mind that the LO feeds its signal into a non-linear mixer to create beat frequency with the RF to receive. This mixer will also create non-linear distrotion to the LO signal itself |
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