IRC log for #qi-hardware on 20150205

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03:12.07wpwraksigh. if she stays much longer, she'll surely start a war ... http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/05/world/americas/argentinas-president-mocks-chinese-accents-during-visit-to-china.html?_r=0
03:51.04wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: (same issues) that would suck :(
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04:37.58DocScrutinizer05well, same issues regarding timing and ignored commands when sent too fast. I wonder how that VISA stuff is handling that
04:39.03DocScrutinizer05I also wonder what's with *OPC and *OPC?
04:40.04DocScrutinizer05>> The *OPC command is used to set the Operation Complete bit (bit 0) in the standard event status register to 1 after the current operation is finished. The *OPC? command is used to query whether the current operation is finished. The query returns 1 if the current operation is finished; otherwise, returns 0.<<
04:41.34DocScrutinizer05sounds like *OPC was the only command allowed during another command still finalizes
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05:14.06DocScrutinizer05and yes, I could read back wav:end? and check if it accepted the new value or still has the old one. I also can read back syst:err? and check for error ' -220,"Parameter error" '
05:16.38DocScrutinizer05but it seems I have to wait/sleep significant fraction of a second before even reading back error (or doing any other command, on that behalf, maybe except *OPC?), so no reasonable procedure for downloading all bytes of wave buffer comes to mind
05:17.50DocScrutinizer05there's http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-683-rigol-ds1000z-ds2000-oscilloscope-jitter-problems/msg576271/#msg576271 and that guy seems to not even vare about timing at all - but then he's using that nasty VISA lib
05:18.04DocScrutinizer05s/vare/care/
05:18.04qi-botDocScrutinizer05 meant: "there's http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-683-rigol-ds1000z-ds2000-oscilloscope-jitter-problems/msg576271/#msg576271 and that guy seems to not even care about timing at all - but then he's using that nasty VISA lib"
05:19.31DocScrutinizer05otherwise he's doing basically exactly what I do, and he ignores the send_cmd(vi, ":ACQUIRE:MDEPTH?"); --> "AUTO" problem
05:20.34DocScrutinizer05there's also
05:20.36DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~> send_cmd ' :WAVeform:PREamble?'
05:20.38DocScrutinizer050,2,400000,1,1.000000e-09,4.747600e-02,0,1.000000e-09,0,125
05:21.25DocScrutinizer05but 3rd parameter "points" (400000) is a simple silly wav:end? - wav:start?
05:22.02DocScrutinizer05and wav:end seems to come up with a default of 6000 (SIC!), no matter of real buffer depth
05:31.37DocScrutinizer05(kirchner) I rather wonder who's going to get assassinated next, suicide style
05:33.18DocScrutinizer05did you say Kirchner is socialist/left-wing? the methods rather feel like worst communism or random arbitrary totalitarian government
05:34.56DocScrutinizer05if it's unclear: I'm referring to ???man
05:35.52DocScrutinizer05the colorable suicide shot in the head
05:37.12DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: maybe you already should think twice before starting public rants about Kirchner. Or get decent bodyguards ;-)
06:04.00DocScrutinizer05hah, nice quote of Wim Wenders: "Do what only you can do! When you think 'somebody else could do this, maybe even better than me' then don't do it, no use in it"
06:05.47DocScrutinizer05I doubt anybody except the super-rich could survive on strictly following this rule, but it's a good guideline nevertheless
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07:08.58DocScrutinizer05s/6000/1200/
07:13.39DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~> send_cmd '*OPC'; send_cmd ':WAVeform:STOP 1200';  send_cmd '*OPC?'
07:13.40DocScrutinizer05command error
07:14.00DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~> send_cmd ':SYST:ERR:next?'
07:14.01DocScrutinizer05-410,"Query INTERRUPTED"
07:15.26DocScrutinizer05NB a ` send_cmd ':WAVeform:STOP 1200'; send_cmd '*OPC' ` works without throwing error
07:16.47DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~> send_cmd '*OPC';  send_cmd '*OPC?'
07:16.49DocScrutinizer051
07:17.27DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~> send_cmd ':WAVeform:STOP 1200'; send_cmd '*OPC';  send_cmd '*OPC?'
07:17.29DocScrutinizer05command errorjr@saturn:~>
07:23.34DocScrutinizer05http://privatepaste.com/8a0dde7eb8
07:27.11DocScrutinizer05wpwrak: I need your magic intuition to make sense out of *OPC[?]
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07:41.21wpwrakDocScrutinizer05: (left/socialist) well, even the nazis were nominally socialist, right ? :) (nisman) a very ugly story indeed. what's a little odd is that the government seems to do its best to make this as damaging to itself as possible.
07:46.01DocScrutinizer05WTF??? works??
07:46.03wpwrak(scope) the *.. commands may be at a different level than the other commands. so yes, maybe *OPC? could do the trick. if it's implemented. did you ever see it return 0 ?
07:46.36DocScrutinizer05http://privatepaste.com/8efced984d
07:46.49DocScrutinizer05(o) no
07:47.22wpwrakah, it works ? maybe it realized that you had asked me for help and thus it decided that further resistance is futile. it has happened before :)
07:48.27DocScrutinizer05well, at least wav:stop 24000000 succeeded, without even spitting out any beeps and weird notes like "invalid param!"
07:52.28DocScrutinizer05http://privatepaste.com/44b15b02f7
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07:56.36DocScrutinizer05note that this still doesn't mean the wav:data? command will work as supposed to, it still may fail to provide uncrippled data
08:11.16wpwrakyeah, there's a lot of trial and error in such things
08:12.40wpwraki think it took a week or so before i had a set of empirical data that would let me use my scope properly, and avoid things like commands partially overwriting each other
08:51.47DocScrutinizer05http://privatepaste.com/8ce540dfab
08:53.42DocScrutinizer05how dull can a simple read() implementation get?
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09:02.31DocScrutinizer05man 2 read; size_t count = (:wav:stop - :wav:start); return value = TMC header bytecount; :wav:start = man 2 lseek SEEK_SET
09:04.11DocScrutinizer05and yes, this would mean the header this shite delivers for start=1 end=24M (#9000000000) indicates "EOF"
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10:09.42DocScrutinizer05hmm http://privatepaste.com/224b7b1854
10:14.02wpwrakso .. that's success ?
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10:51.51DocScrutinizer05ohmy, kinda: http://privatepaste.com/27e6fc60bf
10:52.04DocScrutinizer05data verification pending
10:52.58DocScrutinizer05watch the 2jitter", it's solely caused by Rigol "firmware" slow and random like geotectonics
10:57.58DocScrutinizer05wonders if wireshark would be worth a try on that one
10:58.48DocScrutinizer05anyway here's the dirty stuff I got so far: http://privatepaste.com/163c81b0ae
10:59.55DocScrutinizer05comments welcome, also regarding style
11:08.06DocScrutinizer05also how would I verify that the waveform downloaded is actually what the scope sampled, without gaps or glitches and no bogus values in it?
11:09.42DocScrutinizer05sidenote re speed: seems the bottleneck also applies to ethernet data download, not only to USB file storage
11:11.10DocScrutinizer05I guess it's actually the prolly 5.5bit MCU that is a) slow like molasses and b) has a pretty low priotity low bandwidth bus to access the ASIC's RAM
11:11.55DocScrutinizer05I2C? ;-)
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11:21.31DocScrutinizer05anyway that idiotic thing thinks it needs to comment commands like 'wav:stop NNNN' with a tiny notifier on screen "Stop point changed!" and with a BEEP(!!)
11:22.35DocScrutinizer05while it comments end of download of a chunk with "Can Operate Now" (SIC!) and another beep
11:23.33DocScrutinizer05sure like hell that script needs a "send:cmd ':SYST:BEEP 0' "
11:25.05DocScrutinizer05download of 24MB takes 10:33 now
11:26.50DocScrutinizer05taking into account all the sleep $w after each command, I'd guess the bottleneck bandwidth is identical to that one seen on a fast contemporary USB memstick (80MB/21min)
11:28.58DocScrutinizer05~24000000 / 200000
11:28.58infobot120
11:29.10DocScrutinizer05~633 / 120
11:29.10infobot5.275
11:30.35DocScrutinizer05half of those average 5.3 seconds seems eaten by the 4 commands (:wav:start nnnn; :syst:err?; :wav:end nnnn; :syst:err?)
11:31.31DocScrutinizer05:syst:err seems cruft, aka debug-print
11:32.57DocScrutinizer05but seems to add to stability, prolly due to commands with output (:wav:start nnnn doesn't echo _anything_) serializing operation inside that lame MCU
11:38.52DocScrutinizer05(:wav:start nnnn doesn't echo _anything_) which is prolly part of the problem
11:44.30DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
11:44.52DocScrutinizer05:-D \o/ :-S
11:45.45DocScrutinizer05*my* netcat doesn't know sub-second -w values
11:47.06DocScrutinizer05wait wait, doesn't netcat start timer resp tear down listening port as soon as input on stdin is EOF?
11:47.35DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
11:49.07DocScrutinizer05this starts giving me ideas
11:49.47DocScrutinizer05I wonder if LXI protocil actually neesd a new TCP connection for each new command
11:50.27DocScrutinizer05well, I guess I know how to test that ;-P
11:55.48DocScrutinizer05HMMMMMM
11:55.51DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~> (echo "*IDN?"; sleep 0.5; echo ":SYST:ERR?"; sleep 0.5) | netcat 192.168.4.52 5555
11:55.52DocScrutinizer05RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES,DS1104Z,DS1ZA164357442,00.04.02.SP3
11:55.54DocScrutinizer050,"No error"
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12:09.18DocScrutinizer05wow, weird stuff! http://privatepaste.com/8b132b4314
12:11.03DocScrutinizer05note how :WAV:STOP? reply completely missing between line 2,3
12:16.34eintopfwhat the hell is that? reverse engineering some oscilloscope protocol?
12:20.02wpwrakeintopf: it's DocScrutinizer05 discovering that talking to lab instruments often isn't as nice and easy as one may think ;-)
12:21.19DocScrutinizer05yeah, and no sophisticated perl or c++ or pythoon can really mitigate that, it's the lab instruments that are borked to the bone
12:22.39DocScrutinizer05after 'WAV:START NNNN' no trick substituates the needed sleep 0.2, when next command is 'WAV:STOP NNNN'
12:23.56wpwraksounds very familiar :) if course you can never quite tell where the problem will be, but you can be confident that there are problems :)
12:26.58wpwrakonce your findings begin to stabilize, you may want to report them on eevblog. maybe you can start a discussion there where other people can help you as well.
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12:28.04kyakeintopf: don't tell me you are reading :)
12:29.18DocScrutinizer05http://privatepaste.com/6fcc2c43cf
12:30.20DocScrutinizer05^^^ looks already more decent than what the script is doing
12:30.34wpwrakyou should wait for those *OPC? responses
12:30.55DocScrutinizer05real    0m0.745s
12:31.13DocScrutinizer05maybe I should, maybe it's worthless
12:31.27DocScrutinizer05I still think OPC is cruft
12:31.30wpwrakthere's only one way to find out :)
12:31.39wpwrakbut yes, could be just a dummy
12:35.55DocScrutinizer05there's just a certain speed you can run this Rigol interface with. Doesn't matter if you fill the time with cruft commands like *OPC *OPC? and many tiny sleeps, or you just add 2 sleep 0.2
12:36.11DocScrutinizer05time (echo ":WAV:STAR 1"; sleep 0.2; echo ":WAV:STOP 24000000"; sleep 0.2; echo ":WAV:STAR?";sleep 0.1; echo ":WAV:STOP?"; sleep 0.1; echo ":SYST:ERR?"; sleep 0.1) | netcat 192.168.4.52 5555
12:36.19DocScrutinizer05real    0m0.708s
12:37.51DocScrutinizer05NB *OPC? always returns 1
12:38.31DocScrutinizer05but I dunno how to use *OPC and *OPC? at all
12:39.41DocScrutinizer05the programming manual isn't enlightening: http://wstaw.org/m/2015/02/05/plasma-desktopsm1891.png
12:41.01DocScrutinizer05maybe this only applies for commands that per definition take minutes to complete, like calibration, selftest etc
12:41.44wpwrakyeah, with a scope it's difficult since most commands are "quick"
12:42.05wpwrakcan you command storage operations ? those should take long
12:42.32DocScrutinizer05nope
12:42.39DocScrutinizer05a pity
12:43.36DocScrutinizer05a forced trigger with a time base of 20s/div? ;-)
12:43.46wpwrakprobbaly not
12:44.02DocScrutinizer05ooh, even 50s/div available
12:44.07wpwrakif you send two beeps back to back, does it beep twice or just make a very very slightly longer beep ?
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12:44.47wpwraktrigger is likely to be asynchronous
12:44.55DocScrutinizer05it makes one beep and throws error ;-)
12:45.14DocScrutinizer05actually I wonder how to send a beep
12:47.00DocScrutinizer05there's just SYST:BEEPer <bool>
12:47.10DocScrutinizer05to enable or switch off
12:47.31wpwrakah, seems that *OPC? also synchronizes, see http://na.support.keysight.com/pna/help/latest/Programming/Learning_about_GPIB/Understanding_Command_Synchronization.htm
12:49.12wpwrak(beep) ah yes, thought you could generate one directly
12:52.58DocScrutinizer05I can, e.g. by ':WAV:STOP NNN'  ;-P
12:53.55DocScrutinizer05(keysight) now THAT is some manual, not that rigol shite pathetic
12:54.35DocScrutinizer05then, Rigol seems to lack any input queue
12:55.40DocScrutinizer05otherwise I wouldn't know why "-410,"Query INTERRUPTED""
12:56.19wpwrakalmost a 404 ;-)
12:56.59wpwrak(manual) rule of thumb: there's always a good manual out there, but it's not for the product you have :)
12:58.10DocScrutinizer05indeed
12:58.33DocScrutinizer05keysight U1233a manual is ... non-existent
12:58.50DocScrutinizer05for that purpose
12:59.12DocScrutinizer05but then, there's an android app for that now X-P
13:00.18DocScrutinizer05why would you want to talk LXI SCPI to that critter when you got a nice android app, right?
13:00.22wpwrakwhee ! :-)
13:05.34DocScrutinizer05anyway, during the last years when I heard about Rigol and the stories I always thought it must be sth like Heathkit, or russian surplus. When I unpacked it I thought "no, this is a highly professional tool, yay". Now I start to learn it actually is like heathkit stuff ;-)
13:08.27wpwrakSCPI seems to be a mess everywhere. i don't think i've spoken to a single instrument yet that didn't need some weird quirks, be it rigol, tek, fluke, picotest, ...
13:13.02DocScrutinizer05yes, SCPI is a pathetic spec, from beginning, it seems
13:13.16DocScrutinizer05worse than Hayes
13:13.22DocScrutinizer05aka AT
13:18.11DocScrutinizer05anyway, how would I check the downloaded waveform file for 'correct' data?
13:21.22wpwrakmaybe by saving the same waveform on a USB stick and comparing the two ?
13:21.44wpwrakif that doesn't work, you'll have to record test patterns and see whether what you get looks about right
13:29.00DocScrutinizer05http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/random-media/rigol-temp/
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