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| 11:51.33 | viric | damn, this sheevapug tells me that reading /dev/mem is an operation not permitted |
| 11:52.27 | viric | ah only the specific register offset. |
| 11:52.57 | viric | wpwrak: that's why you wrote once a program that mmaps and reads or modifies a register, isn't it? mmap may work |
| 11:56.25 | Fallenou | you can mmap() /dev/mem |
| 11:56.31 | Fallenou | I think that's the way it's supposed to be used |
| 11:56.52 | *** join/#qi-hardware alexander (~alexander@85.211.117.64) |
| 11:57.08 | alexander | Anyone tried out http://delysid.org/tuneit.html ? |
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| 12:57.24 | viric | Fallenou: ok |
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| 13:50.23 | wpwrak | viric: my program uses mmap, yes. it's here: http://svn.openmoko.org/developers/werner/poke/ |
| 13:51.47 | wpwrak | and i have at ton more programs that do similar things. some are in the ben-blinkenlights project |
| 13:53.30 | viric | :) ok |
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| 13:55.21 | viric | normal. |
| 13:55.46 | viric | I was just trying to find accessible gpìo in the sheevaplug schematics, playing with some 'efuse' things there... |
| 13:56.24 | viric | what do you think of the sheevaplug initiative by globalscale, with open source, schematics, bom, layouts, cam files... |
| 13:56.27 | viric | ? |
| 13:56.54 | viric | do you find the marvell pieces too hidden? |
| 13:57.45 | wpwrak | oh, no idea. haven't paid much attention to the sheevaplug. |
| 13:58.12 | wpwrak | if they publish all that, then it would certainly sounds a like a good thing |
| 13:58.18 | viric | ah ok |
| 13:58.22 | viric | they did, and since years ago |
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| 13:58.44 | viric | I'm using the sheevaplug since long |
| 13:58.54 | viric | http://www.plugcomputer.org/downloads/plug-basic/ |
| 13:59.02 | viric | ^that's for the one I own |
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| 13:59.45 | viric | wpwrak: if you ever need a low power server, you could support them by buying one :) |
| 14:00.08 | viric | I'd like to know how many blobs they have around |
| 14:02.39 | viric | mh their wifi seems to have blobs: http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/libertas (same as OLPC) |
| 14:06.30 | wpwrak | for "low-power servers", i have a bunch of linksys wireless routers :) and most of the wallwart-type devices probably don't have the right plug for argentina (or australia) anyway. the sheevaplug is among them. |
| 14:06.36 | viric | ah well |
| 14:06.57 | viric | the sheevaplug has 512MB of flash and 512MB of RAM |
| 14:07.07 | viric | and 1.2GHz. That bands out all linksys routers |
| 14:07.16 | wpwrak | i do use the ben a lot, though. with the 8:10 card slot, it's perfect for talking to DIY electronics :) |
| 14:07.46 | viric | sure; the sheevaplug isn't that good for electronics; I can't find a single gpio pin with a connector. |
| 14:08.27 | viric | And the sheevaplug is sold with 3 power connectors (european, US, and british) |
| 14:09.09 | wpwrak | neither of which looks even remotely like ar/au :) |
| 14:09.58 | viric | but |
| 14:10.12 | viric | the 'sheevaplug' side is a usual connector |
| 14:10.14 | roh | viric: they also die faster than any router |
| 14:10.30 | viric | http://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/sheevaplug/images/img_0007s.jpg |
| 14:10.49 | viric | roh: bah, the stupid power supply. But you can replace it with a $6 external supply, 5A 3A. |
| 14:10.52 | viric | 5V 3A |
| 14:11.10 | wpwrak | viric: ah, okay. so one could use a cable. or, with luck, find a fitting adapter |
| 14:11.11 | roh | viric: well.. rather buy hardware with no broken psu and heat concept. |
| 14:11.28 | viric | roh: they overheat only at 220V iirc |
| 14:11.36 | viric | I think 120V countries are happy :) |
| 14:12.14 | roh | still fail. |
| 14:12.28 | viric | what still fails? |
| 14:12.35 | roh | no. i meant its a fail. |
| 14:12.39 | roh | broken design. |
| 14:12.43 | viric | ah yes |
| 14:12.46 | viric | sure. |
| 14:12.54 | viric | but you can open and fix it. |
| 14:13.11 | viric | also the nanonote has a bad speaker volume. |
| 14:13.31 | roh | and since i know that also the psu of other devices die over time... i'd rather use one with either a proper one or no internal one. especially if i want to leave them unattended |
| 14:14.01 | viric | it's very easy to remove the internal power supply |
| 14:14.10 | viric | http://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/sheevaplug/images/img_0008s.jpg |
| 14:15.02 | viric | What was available at the time of the sheevaplug appearance, that could perform similarly? |
| 14:15.47 | viric | The plug had big advantages about many devices of its time |
| 14:16.04 | roh | actually i dont like the case at all. |
| 14:16.11 | viric | :) |
| 14:16.41 | roh | especially since i do not want mechanical strain on power sockets. a psu which is directly on the plug is seldomly a good idea |
| 14:17.07 | viric | It comes with both a direct wall-plug connector, and with a cable. |
| 14:17.20 | viric | (in the package) |
| 14:18.04 | viric | but I see you have a personal trouble with it. I won't insist. :) |
| 14:20.05 | roh | yes. its just a very bad design. without a proper usecase which it can do really good. |
| 14:20.52 | viric | I know three people who own them, people who don't deal with embedded devices usually, and they are very happy with it as a home usual linux server, where they deploy their public services |
| 14:21.11 | roh | if you use its cpu, it gets really hot and dies. if you want stability.. its no good because of the overheating psu again.. it has a harddisk-connector, but no space for a harddisk.. its completely not-thought-through in my opinion |
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| 14:21.19 | viric | People who have not bought any other open hw |
| 14:21.29 | viric | I use the cpu |
| 14:21.39 | roh | and with its flaws it should simply not be built till they are fixed (atleast the heat and reliability issues) |
| 14:21.55 | viric | The psu I have replaced. Mine builds a lot, like a build farm, cpu 100% often |
| 14:22.05 | viric | I mean... 90% of the day at 100% cpu |
| 14:22.23 | viric | all with a usb hd. All fine. Some of my friends use it with a SD card. |
| 14:22.31 | GNUtoo-desktop | hi, what about the dreamplug? |
| 14:22.40 | viric | GNUtoo-desktop: I find it expensive. |
| 14:22.56 | viric | And provides little over the sheevaplug, for my taste |
| 14:23.02 | GNUtoo-desktop | ok, can it do hostapd? |
| 14:23.20 | viric | I think so |
| 14:23.31 | viric | it has the same wifi board as the olpc |
| 14:23.59 | GNUtoo-desktop | ok so it's libertas |
| 14:24.02 | viric | yes |
| 14:24.05 | GNUtoo-desktop | I was unsure about that |
| 14:24.20 | GNUtoo-desktop | then if I buy one I backport libertas_tf_sdio and it would work |
| 14:24.25 | viric | hm in fact I talk about the guruplug wifi card. I expect the dreamplug has the same. |
| 14:24.33 | GNUtoo-desktop | ah ok |
| 14:24.38 | viric | GNUtoo-desktop: I'm not sure it's _sdio, or _usb. |
| 14:24.46 | GNUtoo-desktop | I need to verify that's it's compatible with libertas_tf_sdio |
| 14:24.53 | GNUtoo-desktop | which is not in mainline |
| 14:25.03 | GNUtoo-desktop | but for instance there are newer drivers for marvell |
| 14:25.09 | GNUtoo-desktop | that probably lacks AP |
| 14:25.45 | viric | you seem to know better than I :) |
| 14:26.20 | GNUtoo-desktop | yes but I'm unsure if they changed the wifi chip at some point or exactly what chip it is |
| 14:26.45 | viric | ah |
| 14:27.06 | GNUtoo-desktop | basically if it works with libertas_sdio it works with libertas_tf_sdio |
| 14:27.16 | GNUtoo-desktop | but only libertas_tf_sdio provides AP |
| 14:27.35 | GNUtoo-desktop | and the tf_sdio version is not in mainline |
| 14:27.57 | viric | somehow I think it'll be _usb |
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| 14:31.39 | roh | well.. its seems i should stay with different hw for what i need in services at home. |
| 14:32.51 | viric | GNUtoo-desktop: the little references I find, indicate that people configure the kernels as guruplug |
| 14:36.12 | GNUtoo-desktop | ok let me look.... |
| 14:36.33 | viric | GNUtoo-desktop: http://www.plugcomputer.org/405/us/guru-plug/kernel/uImage-guruplug.config guruplug is libertas_sdio |
| 14:36.59 | GNUtoo-desktop | ah they use devicetree |
| 14:37.01 | GNUtoo-desktop | ok |
| 14:37.12 | viric | devicetree? |
| 14:37.18 | GNUtoo-desktop | I was looking in mainline |
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| 14:37.34 | GNUtoo-desktop | as you probably know arch/arm/config doesn't scale |
| 14:37.37 | GNUtoo-desktop | *configs |
| 14:37.52 | GNUtoo-desktop | so they came up with a new system to replace the board init c files |
| 14:37.59 | GNUtoo-desktop | it's called devicetree |
| 14:38.34 | GNUtoo-desktop | s/new/I mean that using device tree for arm is new, not that device tree is new |
| 14:39.08 | GNUtoo-desktop | oops |
| 14:39.13 | GNUtoo-desktop | I said wrong stuff |
| 14:39.25 | viric | ah |
| 14:39.30 | GNUtoo-desktop | I meant it's to replace C files like board-kirkwood.c |
| 14:39.33 | GNUtoo-desktop | not the config |
| 14:39.36 | viric | is it upstream? |
| 14:39.41 | GNUtoo-desktop | yes |
| 14:39.50 | viric | since when? |
| 14:40.01 | GNUtoo-desktop | since recently |
| 14:40.20 | viric | 3.4? |
| 14:40.36 | GNUtoo-desktop | arch/arm/boot/dts |
| 14:40.40 | GNUtoo-desktop | git log and see |
| 14:40.59 | viric | ah ok |
| 14:41.23 | viric | I wasn't aware. |
| 14:42.02 | GNUtoo-desktop | since june 2011 in fact |
| 14:43.00 | viric | I never understood much about initializing complex boards |
| 14:43.48 | GNUtoo-desktop | ok |
| 14:43.53 | GNUtoo-desktop | I did board init already |
| 14:44.07 | GNUtoo-desktop | but not from scratch |
| 14:44.18 | GNUtoo-desktop | basically I took old code and ported it to mainline |
| 14:44.25 | GNUtoo-desktop | and also did device tree for the same device |
| 14:45.04 | GNUtoo-desktop | basically I had to md the memory reagion of the printk buffer to see logs in uboot |
| 14:46.08 | GNUtoo-desktop | btw what else could replace a dreamplug? |
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| 14:46.26 | GNUtoo-desktop | it needs to be compact.... |
| 14:46.37 | GNUtoo-desktop | is there any compact x86 with PCI? |
| 14:46.41 | viric | ah nice. |
| 14:47.05 | GNUtoo-desktop | maybe I should look in coreboot-supported boards |
| 14:47.09 | viric | there are pico-itx atom boards and so |
| 14:47.21 | GNUtoo-desktop | ok |
| 14:47.28 | viric | but I know very little about these things :) |
| 14:48.13 | GNUtoo-desktop | ok |
| 14:48.14 | viric | pci, to hold any pci card? |
| 14:48.17 | GNUtoo-desktop | yes |
| 14:48.24 | GNUtoo-desktop | I prefer ath9k chips |
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| 14:48.40 | viric | ah, can be that minipci of laptops and so |
| 14:49.29 | viric | a simple search pointed me to http://www.portwell.com/products/detail.asp?CUSTCHAR1=NANO-8044 |
| 14:51.07 | GNUtoo-desktop | yes at think penguin they sell ath9k minipci |
| 14:51.56 | GNUtoo-desktop | I guess it uses a BIOS tough |
| 14:52.07 | GNUtoo-desktop | I try to avoid that if possible |
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| 14:53.20 | viric | x86 board without bios? |
| 14:53.26 | viric | that won't be very popular :) |
| 14:53.48 | lindi- | GNUtoo-desktop: what do you want PCI for? |
| 14:54.25 | GNUtoo-desktop | wifi ath9k card |
| 14:55.12 | lindi- | GNUtoo-desktop: I think we use miniPCIe |
| 14:55.15 | lindi- | GNUtoo-desktop: with http://www.pcengines.ch/alix6b2.htm |
| 14:55.32 | GNUtoo-desktop | ok |
| 14:55.57 | lindi- | hmm, not that exact model I think |
| 14:55.59 | GNUtoo-desktop | is that compatible with v4? |
| 14:56.10 | GNUtoo-desktop | viric, chromebook have no BIOS either |
| 14:56.14 | lindi- | GNUtoo-desktop: v4? |
| 14:56.14 | GNUtoo-desktop | ok |
| 14:56.20 | GNUtoo-desktop | it's compatible with v3 at least? |
| 14:56.32 | lindi- | that's some PCIe version number? |
| 14:56.38 | GNUtoo-desktop | coreboot v4 |
| 14:56.44 | lindi- | GNUtoo-desktop: ah, no idea |
| 14:56.59 | GNUtoo-desktop | I've already a coreboot desktop btw |
| 14:57.14 | GNUtoo-desktop | I had a coreboot laptop until I rebooted also |
| 14:57.23 | lindi- | GNUtoo-desktop: did you need to buy some server motherboard? |
| 14:57.48 | GNUtoo-desktop | lindi-, no, I did the port on my desktop |
| 14:58.00 | GNUtoo-desktop | for the laptop I'm waiting for the pomona clips for recovering it |
| 14:58.03 | lindi- | GNUtoo-desktop: hmm, that sounds potentially buggy :) |
| 14:58.12 | GNUtoo-desktop | (I was told I could reboot after bucts 0 which wasn't true) |
| 14:58.35 | GNUtoo-desktop | what would be potentially buggy? |
| 14:58.59 | lindi- | GNUtoo-desktop: being one of the first users of coreboot on that hardware |
| 14:59.29 | GNUtoo-desktop | ah ok |
| 14:59.43 | GNUtoo-desktop | I dreamed of having coreboot hardware for years..... |
| 14:59.44 | lindi- | GNUtoo-desktop: do you have vendor and product name from DMI? |
| 15:00.00 | GNUtoo-desktop | then I found that m4a785-m was supported |
| 15:00.07 | GNUtoo-desktop | and I had m4a785-t-m |
| 15:00.09 | lindi- | cat /sys/class/dmi/id/product_name |
| 15:00.11 | GNUtoo-desktop | so I did the port |
| 15:00.27 | GNUtoo-desktop | M4A785T-M |
| 15:00.45 | lindi- | hmm, smolts.org is down today :( |
| 15:01.04 | GNUtoo-desktop | Vendor: coreboot |
| 15:01.16 | GNUtoo-desktop | from dmidecode |
| 15:01.44 | GNUtoo-desktop | I've still some stuff to fix but I'm mostly happy |
| 15:02.16 | lindi- | sounds promising then |
| 15:02.22 | GNUtoo-desktop | like x86_64 usb init issues => I use x86_not-64 |
| 15:02.30 | lindi- | last time I looked there wasn't anything easily available that'd be well supported |
| 15:02.32 | GNUtoo-desktop | and I also use the internal graphic card |
| 15:02.41 | GNUtoo-desktop | however I've 4G of ram..... |
| 15:02.43 | GNUtoo-desktop | we fixed that |
| 15:02.47 | GNUtoo-desktop | and it was hard.... |
| 15:03.02 | GNUtoo-desktop | and graphics works flawlessly |
| 15:03.20 | GNUtoo-desktop | basically what doesn't work is suff that I didn't use or worked arround |
| 15:03.58 | lindi- | ok |
| 15:04.12 | GNUtoo-desktop | http://www.coreboot.org/ASUS_M4A785T-M |
| 15:04.22 | GNUtoo-desktop | I should update and says that 4G works |
| 15:04.25 | GNUtoo-desktop | and put a new hash |
| 15:04.47 | lindi- | even 4 GB is not that much nowadays |
| 15:05.25 | lindi- | but it's still enough for most stuff of course |
| 15:06.07 | GNUtoo-desktop | 4G is enough for me for now |
| 15:06.18 | GNUtoo-desktop | linking webkit uses swap tough |
| 15:06.27 | viric | with gold? |
| 15:06.29 | lindi- | a few virtual machines and it starts to feel really tiny |
| 15:07.31 | GNUtoo-desktop | ok |
| 15:08.53 | GNUtoo-desktop | vm are for servers tough |
| 15:09.11 | GNUtoo-desktop | I use coreboot on my desktop |
| 15:09.34 | lindi- | GNUtoo-desktop: yeah unless you use qubes on your desktop :) |
| 15:09.50 | GNUtoo-desktop | lol ok |
| 15:10.01 | GNUtoo-desktop | I don't need to isolate proprietary stuff anyway |
| 15:10.12 | Guest65339 | What is the status of QEMU for the NN? The link in the mailing list is dead. |
| 15:10.24 | GNUtoo-desktop | since I don't use any(apart the CPU microcode and the VGA option rom) |
| 15:10.51 | GNUtoo-desktop | I'm not even sure if I use the microcode or not |
| 15:10.51 | lindi- | GNUtoo-desktop: qubes is for much more than just isolating non-free stuff |
| 15:15.52 | viric | do you use serial ports in the PC much? |
| 15:16.01 | viric | I somehow think that the uart driver is broken in recent kernels |
| 15:16.14 | viric | with stty, I end up often with I/O Error on /dev/ttyS= |
| 15:16.17 | viric | ttyS0 |
| 15:16.23 | viric | fixed only if I reboot |
| 15:16.35 | GNUtoo-desktop | viric, what computer? |
| 15:16.37 | viric | a PC |
| 15:16.55 | viric | It happened to me in two computers. A pentium IV and a phenom II |
| 15:16.55 | GNUtoo-desktop | because I've no issues at all with my m4a785-t-m reguarding serial |
| 15:17.03 | GNUtoo-desktop | I run that kernel: |
| 15:17.10 | viric | 3.4 and 3.5 kernels |
| 15:17.16 | GNUtoo-desktop | Linux gnutoo-desktop 3.0.0-24-generic-pae #5trisquel1 SMP Sun Aug 12 12:48:43 UTC 2012 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux |
| 15:17.18 | GNUtoo-desktop | ah ok |
| 15:17.40 | viric | but I simply didn't play much with the serial between 2.6.30 and 3.0 |
| 15:17.45 | viric | so I can't tell. |
| 15:17.50 | GNUtoo-desktop | ok |
| 15:18.05 | GNUtoo-desktop | I use the serial for doing coreboot developement so I know it works for me |
| 15:18.06 | viric | 'i686 athlon i386' ? :) |
| 15:18.25 | GNUtoo-desktop | model name: AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 250 Processor |
| 15:18.42 | viric | you use it from linux userspace? What's at the other end? |
| 15:19.00 | GNUtoo-desktop | what do you mean? |
| 15:19.03 | GNUtoo-desktop | the other computer |
| 15:19.13 | viric | ok |
| 15:19.14 | GNUtoo-desktop | whatever silent laptop running trisquel too |
| 15:19.27 | GNUtoo-desktop | with big enough screen preferably |
| 15:19.32 | GNUtoo-desktop | using picocom |
| 15:19.34 | viric | I don't know; with usb serial adapters, I never get I/O error |
| 15:19.38 | viric | but with the mainboard serial, I do. |
| 15:19.58 | GNUtoo-desktop | I've coreboot<->laptop with laptop beeing usb-serial |
| 15:20.37 | viric | ok |
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| 15:46.10 | LunaVorax | Hi! |
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| 20:17.58 | diginet | hello |
| 20:19.18 | diginet | so I was thinking, what would it take to create a truly open workstation, that was at least on par with something, from say, early to mid 2000s (so at least usable today) |
| 20:20.09 | diginet | You could start with OpenSPARC or LEON, the OpenGraphics OGC1, wishbone bus, the various peripherals on open cores for ethernet and USB. |
| 20:20.27 | diginet | you'd probably need something for sound, there's an opencores clones of a TI DSP that could work |
| 20:21.01 | diginet | I realise this would be by no means easy, but aside from the cost of manufacturing the boards and sourcing the ASICs, how feasible would it be to realize this? |
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| 20:21.30 | viric | by who? |
| 20:21.50 | viric | or you mean, how feasible is it, to find someone to do all this? |
| 20:21.52 | diginet | I dunno, a hobbyist |
| 20:22.17 | viric | lekernel: |
| 20:22.22 | viric | lekernel can answer better |
| 20:22.32 | diginet | What I mean is, based on what we have, how possible would it be for a small team to put something together? |
| 20:22.51 | viric | depends a lot on the small team |
| 20:22.54 | diginet | I just mean the design, not negotiating the manufacture or whatever |
| 20:23.11 | diginet | 5 or so people with a good knowledge of HDL and hardware |
| 20:23.14 | viric | I'm trolling a bit, but sometimes it matters more to find the people who are ready to do something. |
| 20:23.16 | lekernel | diginet: rather start with LM32 (best performance/area of all open source CPUs) and the milkymist tmu (which has a lot of advance on the opengraphics fpga design) |
| 20:23.43 | lekernel | diginet: but anyway, if technical problems don't kill you, marketing will |
| 20:23.52 | diginet | lekernel: yeah, I know |
| 20:24.28 | diginet | lekernel, assuming the the TMU were put into custom silicon, how could it compare, with say, the a graphics chip in smartphones these days? It isn't 3D is it? |
| 20:24.32 | lekernel | diginet: and don't count on the hacker/maker community, all they understand is arduino makerbot and raspberry pi |
| 20:24.32 | viric | luckily there is a number of freedom-fans with money. |
| 20:24.51 | diginet | lekernel: don't get me started on arduino and makerbot |
| 20:24.53 | viric | lekernel: haha |
| 20:25.02 | diginet | Makerbot is made up of a bunch of panhandling charlatans |
| 20:25.48 | diginet | I guess I'm missing something, but outside of the context of their original purpose, I don't see the value in making plastic pieces of junk |
| 20:25.48 | lekernel | diginet: it's not 3d, no, and several other features are missing. I don't know how the performance compares. |
| 20:25.51 | whitequark | lekernel: IMO the "maker community" is acceptable for poplism, obviously not for real work |
| 20:26.01 | Fallenou | lekernel: don't be negative like that :/ |
| 20:26.01 | whitequark | *populism |
| 20:26.12 | diginet | lekernel: the OGC1 has 3D, that's why I suggested it |
| 20:26.22 | diginet | does the LM32 really beat out Leon though? |
| 20:26.41 | whitequark | lekernel: i.e. show arduino to 10k people, 3 of them will maybe become good EEs. not sure if it works like that, through. |
| 20:26.44 | diginet | what is the predicted clock speed for, say, a 90nm ASIC |
| 20:27.02 | Fallenou | well there is no LM32 asic yet |
| 20:27.06 | lekernel | diginet: last time I checked... they only *claimed* to have 3D. and only a basic framebuffer worked ... |
| 20:27.07 | diginet | I know |
| 20:27.08 | Fallenou | but there is LEON asic |
| 20:27.23 | viric | when I checked OGC1, it was all very preliminar. |
| 20:27.23 | diginet | whitequark: I hate how people think arduino is a replacement for an MCU, I see people using it in the most asinine scenarios |
| 20:27.32 | diginet | viric: you could be right |
| 20:27.45 | lekernel | diginet: yes, LM32 has more performance/LUT than LEON in FPGAs |
| 20:28.03 | whitequark | diginet: I'd rather say they think it's the only MCU in the world, but yes |
| 20:28.04 | diginet | I know nothing of the architecture, is it fairly standard RISC? |
| 20:28.16 | lekernel | yes, it's a very straightforward RISC |
| 20:28.33 | diginet | whitequark: I literally saw a guy who used 6 arduinos to blink an array of LEDs |
| 20:28.43 | whitequark | diginet: yeah, happens all the time |
| 20:29.00 | diginet | http://hackaday.com/2012/03/07/adding-a-lot-of-twinkle-to-this-rebar-sculpture/ |
| 20:29.00 | whitequark | well, it's described on its website as a tool for artists |
| 20:29.06 | diginet | the douche is strong with this one |
| 20:29.08 | whitequark | i.e. non-techie people. I think it perfectly fits its goal. |
| 20:29.22 | whitequark | an artist doesn't, won't and shouldn't care about the MCUs or whatnot |
| 20:29.30 | lekernel | re. LEON they might release an optimized version in the next years. might compete with or beat LM32... but it's not out yet. |
| 20:29.31 | diginet | I'm just sick of the attention whores who derail actual discussion |
| 20:29.42 | whitequark | lekernel: LM32 is used in M1 right? |
| 20:29.44 | lekernel | yes |
| 20:29.56 | diginet | what is the clock speed on the M1? |
| 20:30.11 | lekernel | 80MHz |
| 20:30.26 | diginet | is LM32 competitive with ARM in terms of MIPS/Mhz? |
| 20:30.45 | lekernel | I think so |
| 20:31.02 | lekernel | at least with ARM7... of course the superscalar cores are faster |
| 20:31.20 | diginet | LM32 isn't superscalar? |
| 20:31.37 | lekernel | no, it's a regular 6-stage pipelined RISC |
| 20:31.39 | diginet | what about OpenSPARC T2? |
| 20:31.59 | lekernel | opensparc is super large |
| 20:32.28 | lekernel | iirc it's not superscalar either |
| 20:32.54 | diginet | to be fair a lot of that is all the crypto stuff |
| 20:32.59 | lekernel | but you need a $500+ FPGA to use it |
| 20:33.46 | diginet | at the same mhz, how would a T2 core compare to a cortex-A9 |
| 20:33.52 | lindi- | MHz please :) |
| 20:33.57 | lindi- | and it's frequency |
| 20:34.35 | Fallenou | are you really considering building an ASIC ? |
| 20:34.43 | Fallenou | do you have the money for this ? |
| 20:34.49 | diginet | no, I'm just thinking about it |
| 20:34.52 | lekernel | dunno... check http://www.spec.org/ http://www.eecs.umich.edu/mibench/ |
| 20:34.58 | diginet | or pondering |
| 20:35.10 | diginet | I'm just weird, I like to think about hypothetical projects |
| 20:35.54 | viric | for possible funding? :) |
| 20:36.13 | lekernel | with the right connections in research/academia, you can get ASICs done for free... |
| 20:36.14 | Fallenou | describe your project and put it on kickstarter ;) |
| 20:37.27 | lekernel | but why would anyone do something like that? there are LEON ASICs, free hardware, and no one gives a crap outside the aerospace industry |
| 20:37.43 | diginet | I hate kickstarter though |
| 20:38.04 | Fallenou | yes I would say use LEON asic |
| 20:38.09 | Fallenou | it's already made |
| 20:38.13 | diginet | viric, no I'm not talking about this with the intent of making it, I just think its interesting |
| 20:38.16 | diginet | yeah, but it's slow |
| 20:38.18 | diginet | 200mhz |
| 20:38.25 | Fallenou | aouch |
| 20:38.29 | diginet | and probably inordinately expensive for what you get |
| 20:38.36 | Fallenou | you can have 200 MHz LM32 on Kintex 7 :p |
| 20:38.52 | diginet | LeonV4 is supposed to go up to 1500mhz at 90nm' |
| 20:39.00 | diginet | Fallenou: hey, not bad! |
| 20:39.51 | Guest65339 | rhombus-tech maybe in the future they can fund something? |
| 20:41.06 | diginet | if I had unlimited funds, my dream would be something like the openpandora or clamshell zaurus, in terms of form factor, but with totally free hardware inside |
| 20:41.46 | lekernel | kickstarter is hardcore liberalism. and it makes one thing clear: this approach doesn't encourage great open technology. e.g. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joylabs/makey-makey-an-invention-kit-for-everyone vs. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1091976372/open-source-5-axis-cnc-router-and-plasma-machine-p |
| 20:42.38 | viric | lekernel: yep. |
| 20:42.39 | diginet | I just hate it because of all the stupid hipsters on there |
| 20:42.49 | diginet | and idiots in general |
| 20:43.06 | diginet | something which isn't easily digestible by people who know nothing about electronics will never be funded |
| 20:43.14 | viric | lekernel: the bananas keyboard example can make any engineer with helpful projects sad. |
| 20:43.28 | diginet | thus why the particularly egregious space elevator project got half a million in funding |
| 20:44.36 | diginet | people are interested in nonsense like that Ouya thing |
| 20:44.59 | diginet | or uninteresting raspberry pi esque stupidity |
| 20:45.11 | diginet | plus, I just don't like the panhandling nature of it |
| 20:45.42 | Fallenou | I knew I would start yet another kickstarter troll :p |
| 20:45.50 | Fallenou | sorry for the topic switch |
| 20:47.16 | diginet | sorry, sorry, I just hate it |
| 20:47.51 | diginet | anyway, the problem with stuff that's even nominally "open" like the Pandora are the lack of drivers for half the stuff in the OMAP |
| 20:47.57 | diginet | like the DSPs and HW acceleration |
| 20:48.09 | diginet | if they exist, they're horribly buggy binary blobs |
| 20:48.17 | viric | Maybe there could be some committee ceryifying openness |
| 20:48.22 | Fallenou | forget about omap, there is nothing open inside |
| 20:48.29 | diginet | yeah |
| 20:48.59 | viric | Like there is for "ecological agriculture", or "fair trade" |
| 20:49.01 | lekernel | ouya is just a game in personal connections |
| 20:49.10 | diginet | the thing that bothers me though is this, there are companies which make chips that are well documented, but what happens when they stop manufacturing them? You can't source your own. |
| 20:49.28 | lekernel | http://www.linkedin.com/in/julieuhrman |
| 20:49.45 | diginet | even though it's expensive, if gaisler went out of business, if I had to, I could acquire a LEON asic |
| 20:49.55 | diginet | by sourcing my own |
| 20:50.05 | viric | But even some people don't consider FSF any good about software/hardware freedom |
| 20:50.23 | diginet | rms isn't a fan of OHW last time I checked |
| 20:50.31 | diginet | then again, I'm not a fan of him |
| 20:50.35 | viric | :) |
| 20:50.42 | viric | And the licences? |
| 20:50.50 | diginet | my favourite is zlib |
| 20:50.54 | viric | ok |
| 20:51.08 | diginet | the problem is, FOSS is all for naught if you have no control over the hardware it runs on |
| 20:51.33 | viric | rms was using one of those fuloong computers |
| 20:51.36 | viric | yeloong |
| 20:51.41 | viric | just for the bios, iirc |
| 20:51.43 | diginet | yeeloong |
| 20:51.46 | diginet | he's a nut |
| 20:51.53 | viric | haha |
| 20:52.04 | diginet | he stopped using the OLPC because the organization looked at Windows |
| 20:52.10 | diginet | yes, just because they looked |
| 20:52.20 | diginet | I like the idea of free software, but I hate his politics |
| 20:52.38 | viric | well, FSF is one thing, he is another |
| 20:52.44 | diginet | I prefer my own term: public source software |
| 20:53.55 | diginet | anyway, to me the major difficulty is how to design a GPU that isn't worthless |
| 20:54.22 | diginet | one idea I had was to scrap the idea of a dedicated GPU altogether, and include a more general vector coprocessor |
| 20:54.41 | diginet | the design could be based on the Crays |
| 20:54.54 | diginet | (if one needed inspiration) |
| 20:55.15 | lekernel | diginet: use migen flow :) |
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| 20:57.16 | diginet | migen flow? |
| 20:57.39 | whitequark | diginet: I think you might have some success cloning Mali-400 |
| 20:57.48 | whitequark | from what I know it's a decent GPU, simple and powerful |
| 20:57.53 | diginet | really? |
| 20:58.01 | diginet | wouldn't I be violating patents or something? |
| 20:58.17 | lekernel | http://milkymist.org/3/migen.html - but I must say, it's still quite early, and you need some design experience to be really productive with it |
| 20:58.23 | whitequark | from the architectural point of view, not precise implementation |
| 20:58.43 | whitequark | I bet you'll violate some of the patents even if you'll make a clean-room design |
| 20:58.56 | lekernel | but it is/will be the best tool I can think of to design a GPU |
| 20:59.10 | diginet | yeah |
| 20:59.45 | diginet | going backwards somewhat, another idea I've had, that is much less absurd, is designing a sort of ultimate 2D game console |
| 21:00.20 | diginet | I've looked at things to do homebrew for, SNES, GBA, Neo Geo, but they're all lacking in some way or another, not the least being finite supply of hardware |
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| 21:02.15 | diginet | i.e. something at parity with the Sega Saturn (albeit, minus the tacked on 3D stuff which I don't care about) |
| 21:03.50 | diginet | I imagine something which meets those requirements would be a whole lot cheaper to source |
| 21:04.08 | diginet | and probably less delusional than besting modern smartphones |
| 21:04.19 | diginet | and by probbably I mean completely |
| 21:04.32 | lekernel | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-TV |
| 21:04.50 | diginet | yeah, I've heard of that |
| 21:04.55 | diginet | something like that but better |
| 21:38.30 | Guest65339 | floss is stage one. stage 2 is copyleft hardware. |
| 21:41.47 | Guest65339 | I hate how people murder others for no good reason (for example: there evil bleeps). Just like school... :( |
| 21:43.35 | Guest65339 | Name a 100% free software laptop. there was AI touchbook if you replace the wifi and software. Thats dead now. The next best hope is Rhombus-tech. |
| 21:46.05 | Guest65339 | Rhombus-tech is your best bet for a copyleft hardware computer. other than qi hardware. |
| 21:48.33 | lindi- | Guest65339: murder? |
| 21:49.04 | Guest65339 | not literately |
| 21:50.07 | Guest65339 | metaphor maybe? need to look up the word metaphor |
| 21:50.55 | lekernel | Guest65339: OSHW will never work as long as only simple projects that non-engineers can grasp are fashionable |
| 21:51.47 | Guest65339 | Did you look at Rhombus-tech? |
| 21:52.31 | lekernel | where are the schematics? verilog source of the chip? |
| 21:53.50 | Guest65339 | the first card is arm allwinner a10. Future ones are what you want them to be. They are looking into opencores. |
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| 21:55.02 | lekernel | no one wants them to use open cores. it's strange and usually slow. |
| 21:56.28 | Guest65339 | they were quite interested in the biz and in talks. |
| 21:57.30 | Guest65339 | I am not engineer and I don't see my self doing anything complex. I am willing to lean. I read your moans and improve myself based on them. |
| 21:57.34 | *** join/#qi-hardware Ayla (~paul@pc-144-230-164-190.cm.vtr.net) |
| 21:58.28 | Guest65339 | ...but I understand what you mean. |
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