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| 00:48.00 | wolfspraul | found this really nice article with lots of good music links... http://www.nilsgey.de/2012/08/16/open-source-instruments-i-give-up/ |
| 00:48.20 | wolfspraul | for now he 'gives up' but there's still good links in there to all sorts of software, samples, etc. |
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| 01:41.42 | pabs3 | wolfspraul: thanks for that, pasted it on the IRC channel of the Debian multimedia team |
| 01:43.10 | wolfspraul | cool |
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| 13:59.08 | hellekin | Can you see a future in 3D printing + GNU radio / Asterisk + FPGA / ASIC, combined? |
| 14:01.38 | kristianpaul | perhaps |
| 14:02.19 | viric | printing a box for your FPGA minicomputer while listening to the radio while your mother rings to your PBX? |
| 14:02.33 | kristianpaul | 3d priting still evolving hard to know |
| 14:03.18 | kristianpaul | and gnu radio eventually need to be more that SDR solution, perhaps a FRD (F of Fpga) ? |
| 14:03.34 | kristianpaul | the ASIC well, i think of all then uses asic right now :) |
| 14:04.27 | pang | how about the internet |
| 14:04.31 | pang | does it have a future? |
| 14:04.55 | viric | china built a big firewall, russia wants a similar firewall... |
| 14:05.03 | viric | other governments to come may also think it's a good idea. |
| 14:05.26 | viric | They will think of any pretext, pederasty, whatever... |
| 14:06.27 | larsc | iran wants a iran-net completely cut of from the global internet |
| 14:07.20 | viric | normal. |
| 14:07.33 | viric | once there is technology for wide networks, why have only one? |
| 14:07.53 | viric | It's like the single channel TV, and then multiple channels. Some more expensive than others. |
| 14:08.22 | viric | And remember that capitalism has the purpose of making scarce what is abundant. |
| 14:08.29 | viric | :) |
| 14:08.41 | pang | how about space travel? |
| 14:08.43 | viric | iow, give value to products. |
| 14:08.53 | viric | and discover new markets. |
| 14:09.31 | larsc | nah, they don't want two internets only the iran-net |
| 14:09.51 | viric | larsc: well, some people may get access to the internet paying more |
| 14:10.08 | viric | as some extraordinary uncommon service |
| 14:10.14 | kristianpaul | an other networks surelly will re-vive |
| 14:10.30 | kristianpaul | remenber HAMs years ago had its own "internet"? |
| 14:10.43 | viric | I don't know for IPv6... but IPv4 is almost fully by US companies |
| 14:10.45 | kristianpaul | the need for comunication is very strong :-) |
| 14:10.51 | viric | is *owned* almost fully by US companies |
| 14:11.01 | kristianpaul | yeah.. |
| 14:11.05 | viric | DNS root servers are also in the hands of a few |
| 14:11.31 | viric | And also big routers. |
| 14:11.37 | kristianpaul | pang: for space travel well, we need ground stations first, navigation systems to get at least low orbit.. |
| 14:11.52 | kristianpaul | for example for gps a free stack that no matter altitude works ;-) |
| 14:12.03 | kristianpaul | gps receiver* |
| 14:12.31 | viric | the first GNUstronaut sent to space. :) |
| 14:12.39 | kristianpaul | lol |
| 14:12.45 | pang | i think we should build a space elevator |
| 14:13.12 | viric | pang: start hiring :) |
| 14:13.24 | pang | and start mining asteroids and stuff, so the chinese can't monopolize all the earth resources anymore |
| 14:13.32 | hellekin | pang: about the future of the Internet, I was thinking about that exactly: how to empower local communities to build their own communications infrastructure that can plug into the net or work locally |
| 14:13.46 | viric | haha |
| 14:13.55 | hellekin | and I see an interest in free hardware for that purpose. I just don't know how to articulate allthat. |
| 14:14.00 | viric | hellekin: the cyberpunk movement is a lot on that |
| 14:14.12 | viric | hellekin: do you know contactcon? |
| 14:14.28 | hellekin | viric: reading Neuromancer brought me to computing :) |
| 14:14.53 | viric | :) |
| 14:14.58 | viric | hellekin: http://contactcon.com/projects |
| 14:15.18 | hellekin | yes, contactcon was a great initiative, but the follow-up was a bit lame. The forum was born in its infancy. Let's see thatprojects page |
| 14:15.29 | kristianpaul | hellekin: is very hard to know |
| 14:15.42 | kristianpaul | people have own paths and desires are hard to control |
| 14:16.10 | kristianpaul | in some other way if they are uses this tech will surive |
| 14:16.13 | viric | the gnunet people have their stack working right over wireless lan, for example. |
| 14:16.33 | kristianpaul | but just before somebody cut the plug is when most realize the uncoming threads? |
| 14:16.39 | kristianpaul | or perhaps first get a workaround |
| 14:16.42 | hellekin | yes, gnunet is definitely on my stack of techs to promote |
| 14:17.10 | kristianpaul | like who many of ** dont by pass cautive portal in the air ports.. |
| 14:17.15 | viric | I remember some mesh network projects, but all quite stoped. |
| 14:17.16 | hellekin | kristianpaul: for somereason I have this silly analogy coming up to mind |
| 14:17.43 | viric | hellekin: the anonymization in gnunet is really good :) |
| 14:18.49 | hellekin | you have this protest in South Africa, people with machetes marching toward a line of robocops. Everybody knows what the technology can do. Just don't realize how much it can do... Until panic spreads in the police ranks, and they fire machine guns in the crowd. Now everybody on both sides realize. |
| 14:19.51 | hellekin | viric: I wouldn't take that part as a best advantage of gnunet. Tor is still much better. But the transport layers of gnunet span everything we can think of, more or less. |
| 14:21.11 | hellekin | back to my analogy: we have very good tech, 3D printing, softcores, free hardware, free software to replace monopolistic infrastructures with decentralized,community-owned ones. How do we get from here to there? |
| 14:21.32 | kristianpaul | improving first |
| 14:21.35 | viric | hellekin: 3d-printing some guns? |
| 14:21.41 | hellekin | what's the switch that makes a criticalmass of people willing to take their tech into their own hands |
| 14:21.45 | hellekin | hehe |
| 14:21.47 | kristianpaul | viric: ir coins? :-) |
| 14:21.50 | kristianpaul | si/ir/or |
| 14:22.29 | viric | the free-hw movement still has lots of troubles convincing ordinary people |
| 14:22.45 | viric | which have too much work fulfilling their daily duties. |
| 14:23.15 | viric | and in many cases the purity on free-hw is too limiting. |
| 14:23.37 | viric | Even all zelots here use mostly closed hw just to stay in this channel, I bet. |
| 14:23.57 | hellekin | so for next year, we're setting up a bus tour in Brazil. Going around villages that don't have high speed Internet access, and bring them wifi mesh,free telephony, online collaborative tools, and 3D printing. How can we add free hardware to the lot? |
| 14:23.59 | kristianpaul | is not convincing, is just offering alternatives, people should take own desitions |
| 14:24.31 | hellekin | one cannot take good decisions without proper information |
| 14:24.33 | viric | kristianpaul: people take decisions based on what looks more convincing to them, too : |
| 14:24.36 | viric | ) |
| 14:24.44 | kristianpaul | hellekin: thats sound like a fancy give a way of items to me :) |
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| 14:24.50 | kristianpaul | how they plan to use? |
| 14:24.56 | hellekin | and proper information about disruptive tech is not necessarily easy to get |
| 14:25.26 | hellekin | kristianpaul: it's an activist network. They need to reach out, and share information between them |
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| 14:25.55 | kristianpaul | so this people already have the *need* for this tech? |
| 14:26.03 | hellekin | have you heard of the sellout of some ancestral Masai land to rich Qatari for hunting lions in Africa? |
| 14:26.16 | kristianpaul | and when you leave is not a cut-off of support :-) |
| 14:26.17 | kristianpaul | nope |
| 14:26.27 | viric | hellekin: that projects page, on technology, has some at least good marketed projects |
| 14:27.01 | hellekin | well in Brazil, a similar situation arises with indigenous populations being spoiled of their lands by mingin and forestryand intensive agriculture |
| 14:27.13 | hellekin | it would not happen if peopleknew more about the situation |
| 14:27.13 | viric | hellekin: the biggest trouble of developing countries are the developed countries, I think. |
| 14:27.24 | hellekin | viric true |
| 14:27.39 | hellekin | kristianpaul: yes support is indeed a big issue |
| 14:28.11 | hellekin | elektra has a lot of experience with that in Africa. When things break, and hackers are not around, they just stop using the stuff |
| 14:28.44 | kristianpaul | i think, we are reposinble for making tech with less need of fancy geek support |
| 14:28.46 | viric | I think that having some people from developed countries trying to help developing countries, while other people from the same developed country fucks them a lot, is a big loop that should be broken inside the developed country. |
| 14:28.50 | hellekin | same goes with wells implanted in Africa: the pump dies, people can't fix it, the well becomes a hole to fill with garbage |
| 14:30.53 | hellekin | viric: it's a very complex situation. There's the inertia of a system that's gearedtoward maximum profit in the shortest time, without proper resource accounting, then you have corruption,malevolence, a lot of ignorance, even among the knowledgeable people, then you have local specificities, etc. |
| 14:31.00 | kristianpaul | viric: agreed |
| 14:31.27 | hellekin | as a funny example, coming from NL and DE, I was apalled at the smallness ofglasses of beer in Brazil |
| 14:32.02 | hellekin | then I realized that it's Winter, and I'm in a tee-shirt, and that in Summer, a pint of beer would heat up pretty fast |
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| 14:34.10 | kristianpaul | this free tech, should work out of the box and include or required instructions to make it work |
| 14:34.25 | kristianpaul | no matter language ;) |
| 14:34.34 | viric | beer? |
| 14:34.38 | kristianpaul | welk perhaps that last one was a bit ronamtic |
| 14:34.42 | kristianpaul | viric: a start ! |
| 14:34.56 | viric | :) |
| 14:36.52 | kristianpaul | ronamtic/romantic |
| 14:37.28 | kristianpaul | hellekin: for yoru particular case, why not start with simple things |
| 14:38.19 | kristianpaul | like building houses, water cleaning systems, energy collection and storage |
| 14:38.38 | kristianpaul | and why not a phone that ideally jsut works, pehrpas like mesh potatoe? |
| 14:39.04 | kristianpaul | for me, 3d printing as we knew it still bit messy for a give a way... |
| 14:39.19 | kristianpaul | gotta go, back later |
| 14:39.37 | hellekin | kristianpaul: in 1979, a couple of weeks before the beginning of the Universal Expo in Tehran, the Russians announced their presence. As usual, the USA decided that they should go too, but they didn't have anything prepared. They called Buckminster Fuller, and he delivered a huge geodesic dome in a kit, with instructions. Local engineers could build it without prior knowledge of the technology, in a matter of hours. That is the kind of goal we should |
| 14:40.03 | kristianpaul | yup :) |
| 14:40.27 | hellekin | the 3D printers are not part of the bundle, but we figured out that if we could have someof themin someof the places,that could be a good start |
| 14:41.49 | hellekin | but telephony is. I hate phones, mostly because I hate interruption. But having a voice partyline is great. And useful, especially in rural zones where your communications can be silenced for political reasons |
| 14:43.08 | hellekin | anyway, I just wanted to share a bit of thinking out loud. Let's find a way to make that pulsate. There must be something... |
| 14:43.26 | kristianpaul | trial and error? |
| 14:43.34 | kristianpaul | getting to manufacture your ideas? |
| 14:43.42 | kristianpaul | well, bye ! |
| 14:45.23 | hellekin | trial and error sounds toomuch like blindness... Will and steering? |
| 14:45.36 | hellekin | Steering the will ;o) |
| 14:46.32 | hellekin | kristianpaul: I just want to create synergies that matter. Manufacturing *your* ideas :) |
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| 17:09.55 | N1ck | Anybody know what the realistic range from a 5W amp and 15dbi omni is? |
| 17:10.24 | viric | 15dbi omni? 'dbi' is a unit that compares to omni. |
| 17:11.03 | N1ck | sorry an omni-directional antenna that offers 15dbi of gain |
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| 17:12.02 | viric | I'd repeat my sentence |
| 17:12.48 | viric | but even if you had given good units, I wouldn't know any 'realistic range' :) |
| 17:13.03 | N1ck | haha ball bustin' are we |
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| 19:57.26 | qi-bot | The build was successful: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.minimal-20120816-1742 |
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| 21:55.23 | kristianpaul | http://www.gnss-sdr.org/documentation/gnss-sdr-operation-realtek-rtl2832u-usb-dongle-dvb-t-receiver |
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