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| 05:18.01 | qi-bot | Pete Ippel ‽: In addition @fabricatorz @billkendrick @openclipart @sharism @qihardware I'm also planning on giving the presentation on a @Milkymistvj ( 235606080116359168@hypermodern - 40s ago via HootSuite ) |
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| 11:58.53 | paul_boddie | Hello again! I did some Wiki tidying, but is there any information about getting OpenWrt build changes adopted anywhere? |
| 12:02.21 | wpwrak | hmm, not sure we have a formal process. i guess posting to the qi-hw list or discussing the changes here ought to do the trick |
| 12:03.03 | wpwrak | and you can always bother xiangfu :) |
| 12:03.05 | paul_boddie | Currently, they're on the Wiki as that was the easiest place to put them temporarily: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/File:Patches-pygame-sdl.tar.gz |
| 12:03.18 | wpwrak | urgh :) |
| 12:03.47 | wpwrak | wolfspraul: someone here badly needs access to downloads.qi-hardware.com ;-) |
| 12:05.07 | paul_boddie | It looked like libsdl_mixer wasn't linking to the Vorbis libraries, and I think someone misunderstood the logic in the configure script for that package, so there's a change to the build Makefile there. |
| 12:06.18 | paul_boddie | The only thing stopping pygame working was the mention of two undesirable libraries in the build configuration. I was really happy to see pygame in the image supplied on the NanoNote, but was disappointed to see it disappear in later images. |
| 12:14.19 | wpwrak | maybe wait a bit to see if someone who's working on openwrt responds here. people who should be able to help with further steps include mth, ayla, kyak, and xiangfu |
| 12:15.25 | wpwrak | if everyone is away, enjoying a beer while watching scantly clad girls playing beach volleyball, then you could just post to the list |
| 12:18.06 | paul_boddie | But I thought the Olympics were over! :-) |
| 12:18.38 | paul_boddie | I'll probably also post to the list, too, as I was just looking for some quick answers here. |
| 12:19.37 | paul_boddie | The only real answers I need would be related to compiling numpy, but I suspect that the toolchain doesn't support the necessary floating point functionality in target programs. |
| 12:21.25 | wpwrak | dunno. does numpy need something unusual ? |
| 12:22.45 | paul_boddie | It includes <fenv.h> which does exist in uClibc but isn't installed as part of the working toolchain. There seems to be workarounds for Cygwin, but I suspect that these are nasty hacks that only work on x86(-64). |
| 12:23.19 | paul_boddie | I might look at the Vorbis/Tremor stuff for inspiration, however. |
| 12:23.39 | mth | wpwrak: we're using buildroot, not openwrt, for OpenDingux; there are lots of similarities though |
| 12:24.07 | kyak | paul_boddie: probably the best way is to send patches to mailing list, someone will take care and merge them |
| 12:24.19 | wpwrak | hmm, fenv.h even seems to be in POSIX. first time i see it, though |
| 12:24.21 | paul_boddie | mth: I'm using the openwrt-xburst stuff. |
| 12:24.34 | paul_boddie | kyak: I guess I'll do that, then. Thanks! |
| 12:27.22 | mth | paul_boddie: these are the configure flags we use: https://github.com/mthuurne/opendingux-buildroot |
| 12:27.53 | mth | the use of tremor instead of the plain libvorbis is important, since softfloat is very slow |
| 12:28.48 | wolfspraul | paul_boddie: just stay in this channel and/or wait for xiangfu's reply, we will definitely get this folded into the builds... |
| 12:28.58 | wolfspraul | you are at the right place here :-) |
| 12:29.42 | paul_boddie | mth: Thanks for the link! I've noticed that if I play Vorbis in pygame it works well, but if I use the play command the sound breaks up badly. So I imagine that there's a linkage change possible with that program, too. |
| 12:29.46 | mth | direct link: https://raw.github.com/mthuurne/opendingux-buildroot/opendingux-2010.11/package/sdl_mixer/sdl_mixer.mk |
| 12:31.40 | paul_boddie | I think the SDL mixer stuff was combining --disable-music-ogg with --enable-music-ogg-tremor (and also enabling dynamic loading and explicitly using the tremor library), but without looking at the configure logic, I guess that --disable-music-ogg just short-circuits everything and disables all support. |
| 12:32.07 | paul_boddie | wolfspraul: Do you remember any discussions about floating point support? |
| 12:32.18 | wolfspraul | not really |
| 12:32.32 | wolfspraul | I think there is no hw floating point support on the Ben, and software support is slow... |
| 12:32.34 | wolfspraul | something like that |
| 12:33.06 | paul_boddie | I should really search a bit harder in the uClib documentation for such things, I suppose. |
| 12:34.06 | paul_boddie | By the way, I think the result of everyone's hard work putting the device together and getting the software onto it is really amazing. :-) |
| 12:47.28 | wolfspraul | thanks! |
| 12:47.29 | wolfspraul | :-) |
| 12:47.39 | wolfspraul | that was and continues to be extremely hard indeed |
| 12:47.52 | wolfspraul | lots of people helped... |
| 12:48.40 | wolfspraul | btw today is bison day for me. I'm dusting off my old parser knowledge :-) |
| 12:49.09 | wolfspraul | so far it doesn't really work yet, but I know with bison you have to be a little patient at the beginning, and will be rewarded richly over time :-) |
| 12:53.44 | paul_boddie | After trying a few images out at the weekend, I spent some time reading the list archives to see what discussion I might have missed - I only ever vaguely followed the different projects here, I'm afraid - but I regard the result as a genuine success, even if not everybody's goals were met. |
| 12:59.13 | paul_boddie | I'm really looking forward to trying out some projects, possibly fixing up some stuff on the way, and perhaps eventually getting some low-level software or hardware experience. |
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| 13:10.40 | mth | I'm not sure how the openwrt for the NanoNote handles it, but for OpenDingux we have a toolchain that uses softfloat by default |
| 13:10.59 | mth | there is no hw floating point in Ingenic CPUs until I think JZ4760 |
| 13:11.19 | mth | and the in-kernel FPU emulation is much slower still than softfloat |
| 13:25.35 | paul_boddie | I've not really looked at the toolchain configuration yet. I used to use ARM CPUs when they were first around, and the lack of floating point hardware often led to a range of strategies for optimising performance. For pygame, I found that instead of needing numpy, which is a huge bundle of tangential stuff, I can probably use the pixel array support instead, and I suppose there will be similar workarounds for other software. |
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| 14:00.00 | paul_boddie | I guess the uClibc settings of interest are UCLIBC_HAS_FLOATS and UCLIBC_HAS_FPU. |
| 14:01.03 | paul_boddie | And, of course, UCLIBC_HAS_FENV. Maybe that is set as a consequence of the others being set or unset. |
| 14:02.51 | paul_boddie | There seems to be a CONFIG_SOFT_FLOAT setting in the OpenWrt, perhaps similar to the BR2_SOFT_FLOAT in buildroot. |
| 14:05.39 | jow_laptop | yes, that just results in -msoft-float for gcc calls (openwrt softfloat option) |
| 14:07.21 | paul_boddie | Would it give me fenv.h? :-) |
| 14:09.46 | jow_laptop | likely not |
| 14:09.53 | jow_laptop | I only have some C++ related fenv.h here |
| 14:10.31 | jow_laptop | it provides ::fenv_t and ::fexcept_t |
| 14:10.36 | jow_laptop | but no equivalent for C |
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| 14:22.22 | paul_boddie | I'd have to take a look. I swear I saw an fenv.h for C in the uClibc sources as well as the C++ wrapper that appears to get installed, but I'd have to look again and understand what it's for, too. |
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| 23:15.10 | LunaVorax | hi |
| 23:15.54 | pabs3 | hola |
| 23:16.41 | LunaVorax | que tal? :P |
| 23:19.52 | pabs3 | no mucho |
| 23:22.04 | LunaVorax | You don't speak spanish pabs3, right? |
| 23:22.22 | pabs3 | solo un poco |
| 23:22.33 | LunaVorax | That's great because me neither |
| 23:22.38 | pabs3 | :) |
| 23:22.40 | LunaVorax | :P |
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