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| 01:14.28 | wpwrak | cladamw: heya ! i have a new idea for things like QFP |
| 01:15.02 | cladamw | wpwrak, good morning ! yes. |
| 01:15.19 | wpwrak | cladamw: i found IPC 7351. they have actually very nice formulas for going from the package definition to footprints |
| 01:16.00 | wpwrak | so instead of defining the footprint parameters directly, we could probably just calculate them from the package parameters |
| 01:16.17 | wpwrak | that should avoid all the ugly guesswork |
| 01:17.23 | wpwrak | also, IPC 7351 defines variations of parameters. so for each package, you could get at least three differently sized footprints. of course, fped could also make these three variants. |
| 01:17.55 | wpwrak | these variations may explain why we get so different patterns from different companies, even though all claim to use exactly the same standards |
| 01:19.28 | wpwrak | doing things this way will benefit from fped having a few new features which i'm adding these days. i think i have solved the nastier bits already, but there's still 1-2 more days of work to do. |
| 01:20.05 | wpwrak | so i'm not sure if it makes sense for you to work on qfp.fpd at the moment, since it should become obsolete very soon |
| 01:20.36 | wpwrak | (well, not entirely obsolete. but its internal logic would change a lot) |
| 01:20.44 | cladamw | (obsolete) hmm ... good and also bad. :) |
| 01:22.02 | cladamw | so Fped will meet IPC 7351 and try to have features with three variations option ? |
| 01:22.46 | cladamw | will new Fped impact all your existing *.fpd ? |
| 01:22.55 | wpwrak | (IPC) yes, that's the idea |
| 01:23.02 | wpwrak | all the old things will still work |
| 01:24.04 | wpwrak | it's just that a few new features will make it a lot easier to construct the things according to IPC7351. for example, i've added a rounding function. and i'm extending the functionality of tables. |
| 01:24.21 | wpwrak | have you read the whole README yet ? |
| 01:24.34 | cladamw | i see, but i think that i still can work on SOIC and else, just later to change a little. |
| 01:24.46 | cladamw | you committed new info on README ? |
| 01:24.59 | cladamw | checking ... |
| 01:25.10 | wpwrak | SOIC may be quite similar to QFP. SSOP certainly will be. so that would come after. |
| 01:25.24 | wpwrak | yes, there's a bit of new stuff in README |
| 01:25.36 | wpwrak | lemme push all the changes (the last bit is still incomplete) |
| 01:25.51 | qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: test/floor: add two real-life-like rounding problems (mil to mm) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/9115444 |
| 01:25.52 | qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: add %iprint, to track variables during instantiation (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/3c39600 |
| 01:25.53 | cladamw | wpwrak, btw, i don't like the marker inside outline frame. |
| 01:25.53 | qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: introduce keyed tables (?var syntax; WIP) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/3488cf8 |
| 01:25.55 | qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: test/tsort: fix permission (wasn't excecutable) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/101bd11 |
| 01:26.01 | cladamw | wpwrak, sure. |
| 01:26.57 | wpwrak | (marker) it's a tricky thing. i put it there so that it doesn't get in the way. e.g., if you want to put some pad / TP near the component, then the marker on the silk would get in the way |
| 01:26.58 | cladamw | a marker like for dip, qfn or qfp is good |
| 01:27.45 | wpwrak | (marker) but of course, there's the problem that it is hidden when you place the component |
| 01:28.03 | cladamw | yes, it's a tricky, but i just like to tell you that smt machine use a outer marker better than inside the area of footprint it picks and places it. :-) |
| 01:28.30 | wpwrak | (smt machine) ah, that's interesting. didn't know that |
| 01:29.04 | wpwrak | maybe we should make it really small then :) |
| 01:29.52 | cladamw | since a inner marker is useless and smt technician will use fiducial and offset for placing (i.e. smt needs to calibrate offset.) no good. |
| 01:30.27 | cladamw | wpwrak, no problem ,when i build new *.fpd, I'll always make marker to be outside. :) |
| 01:30.36 | cladamw | and smaller. |
| 01:31.01 | wpwrak | regarding naming, components would have names like QFP32-MS026BBA-B. QFP for the general shape, 32 for the number of pins, MS26BBA for the JEDEC standard that defines the package parameters, and B for the density |
| 01:31.27 | cladamw | aha ... sounds good naming |
| 01:31.40 | wpwrak | density is how the package parameters get translated to the footprint. A makes a large footprint, B a medium one, C a tiny one |
| 01:33.48 | cladamw | this three features makes me remembered that om ivorin used C tiny one for phone footprints. :-) |
| 01:34.46 | wpwrak | yeah, the OM phones were very tightly packed :) |
| 01:35.25 | wpwrak | now, the new features in fped: |
| 01:35.44 | cladamw | it was reasonable, but for a referenced-likely plateform hw, an alternative option to choose function in Fped is good direction. |
| 01:36.19 | wpwrak | - first, when you change the current row in a table and if that table influences what package is being defined (like in qfn.fpd or qfp.fpd), then fped will try to automatically select that package for you |
| 01:36.44 | wpwrak | so you no longer need to go up to the list of packages and synchronize with the table all the time |
| 01:37.39 | wpwrak | (density) fped would simply generate all the variants. then it's up to designer of the pcb to choose which footprint size they like. |
| 01:38.28 | wpwrak | - next feature: i added a function called floor(). it rounds its argument to the next lowest integer. e.g., floor(2.1) would be 2 |
| 01:39.17 | wpwrak | you can also use it to do things like rounding to 0.1 mm as follows: given a dimension X, you would the the rounded value with floor(X/0.1mm)*0.1mm |
| 01:39.40 | wpwrak | the nice thing is that it doesn't matter whether X is in mm or mil |
| 01:39.49 | cladamw | okay. |
| 01:39.52 | wpwrak | s/the the/get the/ |
| 01:40.13 | cladamw | do i need to update Fped now to use ? or one ~ too days later ? |
| 01:40.55 | wpwrak | - and the next feature (unfinished): you can tell fped that a column in the table doesn't define a variable but synchronizes with a variable defined elsewhere instead |
| 01:41.32 | wpwrak | this currently only works in a script, not in the GUI (the GUI should do the right thing, but you can't edit this) |
| 01:42.24 | cladamw | alright, so i think that i update new Fped once you let me know it's done. :-) |
| 01:42.47 | wpwrak | this mechanism would allow you to do two things: 1) split a large table into multiple tables, and 2) if you have parameters that apply to multiple entires in the table, you can assign a unique key and use that |
| 01:43.00 | cladamw | (unfinished feature) that one yes i feel it's nice. I like it. :-) |
| 01:44.03 | wpwrak | it's basically what is called an "inner join" in relational databases |
| 01:44.28 | cladamw | btw, do you know that how many people used your Fped so far ? |
| 01:45.01 | cladamw | (inner join) i can imagine its work. :) |
| 01:45.40 | wpwrak | it'll be useful for the IPC calculations, because there are sets of parameters that change a bit with chip dimensions, but each set applies to many dimensions. so instead of repeating the set of parameters a dozen times, you'd just have one entry in a separate table and put the index in the table with all the chips |
| 01:46.42 | wpwrak | there are examples of the floor() function in the regression tests, here: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/fped/source/tree/master/test/floor |
| 01:46.57 | wpwrak | and for the tables, a few examples here: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/fped/source/tree/master/test/keys |
| 01:49.23 | wpwrak | the syntax ?variable_name in a table means that this column is a key. so in the first example, the first table sets "a" to the values 1 or 2 and in the second table, only the corresponding entries are selected. the end result is a translation from english to german :) |
| 01:51.17 | cladamw | (inner join) nice "Mapping" method. :) |
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| 01:53.00 | wpwrak | yeah :) i've been thinking of this for a very long time. and now i finally figured out how to do it :) |
| 01:54.43 | wpwrak | the implementation is not extremely efficient (fped first produces all the combinations and then rejects the ones that don't match), but modern PC are fast :) |
| 02:00.30 | cladamw | i thought Fped in the end can generate mostly footprints that industry use then it's enough, in the other hand Fped becomes not only for footprint generations&review purpose, could be also for next your generation tool of 2D or 2.5D ancestor. |
| 02:04.17 | wpwrak | yes, for simple 2D it's quite nice. for 2.5D, i'm not convinceed. i have a 2.5D design made with fped, but it's a bit confusing |
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| 02:05.52 | wpwrak | (simple 2D) as long as you don't need things like tangents, measure angles, and so on. e.g., making M1 front and rear plates was fun and easy. roh probably suffered a lot more with qcad ;) |
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| 05:54.53 | qi-bot | [commit] Adam Wang: added SOIC footprints: 8, 14 and 16 pins. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/f077efe |
| 05:58.19 | qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: gui_frame.c: display a question mark before variables used as key (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/326a480 |
| 05:58.20 | qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: support switching variables between assignment and key (WIP) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/4c3dea7 |
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| 07:43.36 | LunaVorax | Hi everyone |
| 07:46.15 | xiangfu | LunaVorax, Hi |
| 07:48.20 | viric | hello |
| 07:49.01 | viric | hm question about the linux scheduler... what can give a loadavg of 90, and 'top' showing 99% idle? |
| 07:54.42 | LunaVorax | Hi xiangfu |
| 07:55.49 | lindi- | viric: processes in disk sleep |
| 07:56.18 | viric | they are counted in loadavg? I suspected so. |
| 07:56.42 | lindi- | viric: yes, it is the average number of processes that are not in S state |
| 07:57.02 | viric | ah, *not in S* |
| 07:57.06 | viric | I thought it would be in R state |
| 08:14.07 | viric | lindi-: and if that happens with disk not doing activity? (by HD led) |
| 08:14.33 | lindi- | viric: it can be a bug? |
| 08:15.09 | viric | I thought so... I dumped the task states, and some were blocked at reiserfs code calling some timeouts or so |
| 08:15.41 | viric | concurrency bugs in disk code can appear that way in loadavg I imagine |
| 08:15.59 | lindi- | viric: yeah if this is reproducible you might want to test with some other fs |
| 08:16.28 | viric | not reproducible anymore. moo. :) |
| 08:16.36 | viric | thank you a lot |
| 08:16.58 | viric | very enlightening. |
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| 08:34.30 | viric | lindi-: qemu uses 21 threads to do disk IO, for a single VM. |
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| 09:02.31 | jivs | Hello xiangfu, |
| 09:04.45 | xiangfu | jivs, Hi |
| 09:04.58 | jivs | Have u had chance to try the updated guile2 on your system? |
| 09:05.24 | jivs | it should compile fine now. please let me know if there is any issue. |
| 09:06.47 | xiangfu | jivs, great. |
| 09:07.19 | xiangfu | jivs, the build host will report that in next ~30 hours. and I am compiling that now. |
| 09:07.31 | jivs | okay great... |
| 09:12.44 | jivs | thanks xiangfu for the quick merge |
| 09:14.12 | viric | do you use guile2 in the nanonote? |
| 09:29.55 | xiangfu | under nanonote guile is 1.8.7. |
| 09:30.07 | xiangfu | guile2 will included in next release. :) |
| 09:30.09 | viric | ah ok |
| 09:30.30 | xiangfu | viric, I only show people that there is guile in Nanonote. I don't know much about guile. |
| 09:30.52 | viric | my question was more for jivs, I imagined he cares on guile there. |
| 09:31.22 | viric | some time ago, I helped one guile2 maintainer ensure it works in the nanonote. :) |
| 09:31.41 | viric | not for openwrt, but for nix, of course |
| 09:31.45 | jivs | hi viric |
| 09:32.23 | jivs | guile2 runs in nanonote now |
| 09:32.37 | viric | in openwrt in the nanonote you mean |
| 09:34.54 | jivs | it will be included in the next release as xiangfu |
| 09:34.59 | jivs | yes openwrt |
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| 10:14.36 | xiangfu | I got a configure error: configure: error: building Guile 2.0.5 but `/usr/bin/guile' has version 1.8.8" |
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| 10:53.18 | jivs_ | xiangfu: let me rerun that on my system without guile on the host |
| 10:54.15 | jivs_ | it may have bypassed on mine because of that |
| 11:04.15 | cladamw | wpwrak, how to use arc in Fped ? center, start and end point, but how to drag ? I found it always a circle. so must be the steps I made wrong. |
| 11:04.29 | LunaVorax | Oh seriously guys |
| 11:04.48 | LunaVorax | Piwik stats on http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Piwik_stats requires flash? |
| 11:04.50 | LunaVorax | :( |
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| 13:10.37 | wpwrak | cladamw: yo ufirst make a circle. then you drag the radius point |
| 13:11.40 | cladamw | wpwrak, hehe ... i just knew how to use it already but thanks. :-) |
| 13:13.09 | wpwrak | i guessed at much :) |
| 13:18.02 | qi-bot | [commit] Adam Wang: ir.fpd: added IR receiver footprint (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/e92838c |
| 13:19.49 | cladamw | wpwrak, I've not named a good name for this IR, still gaved a TSOP348 same from Vishay's series. we can rename it later. :-) |
| 13:22.38 | cladamw | tomorrow's work to edit JS28F256J3F105 footprint TSOP-56 and TO-252, etc. :) |
| 13:23.30 | cladamw | wpwrak, i go off line. 886 |
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| 15:16.25 | qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: fix whitespace anomalies (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/f2d3986 |
| 15:16.25 | qi-bot | [commit] Werner Almesberger: make variable type changes also commit the value (name) being edited (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/fped/5d76af2 |
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| 15:30.32 | viric | mth: I think the mplayer "-vo v4l2" expects a hw mpeg decoder at its end |
| 15:33.47 | mth | it doesn't check capabilities and settle for just YUV decoding if that's all that is available? |
| 15:34.46 | viric | I don't think so. the docs specify mpeg decoder. |
| 15:34.52 | viric | what about 'vidix'? |
| 15:36.05 | viric | hm isn't vidix what dvdk used? |
| 15:36.14 | viric | I can't remember |
| 15:36.57 | viric | vidix looks like a very old thing |
| 15:37.36 | mth | I haven't looked into dvdk's code yet, I've only heard it described |
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| 15:42.28 | viric | mth: I just found http://gumstix.8.n6.nabble.com/DSS2-Patches-V4L2-Video-Drivers-td652897.html |
| 15:42.38 | viric | unrelated hw, but seems to do something with v4l2 |
| 15:45.27 | mth | it mentions overlays, but it's hard to make out more without deeper study |
| 15:45.32 | viric | yes. |
| 15:45.58 | viric | it's about using a TI omap as display afaiu |
| 15:46.09 | viric | as some image processing unit |
| 15:46.15 | viric | but with v4l2 interface |
| 15:46.26 | viric | I'd like to know what userland tools they have, sending to it |
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| 17:41.50 | qi-bot | The build was successful: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/build-nanonote/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120527-1148 |
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