| 00:23.22 | *** join/#qi-hardware xiangfu (~xiangfu@fidelio.qi-hardware.com) |
| 00:33.30 | *** join/#qi-hardware cladamw (~adamwang@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw) |
| 01:13.28 | *** join/#qi-hardware rejon_ (~rejon@jp.fabricatorz.com) |
| 01:39.16 | qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu: m1-files. remove mjpg-streamer. useless for m1 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/e1dab76 |
| 01:40.07 | *** join/#qi-hardware rejon_ (~rejon@114.250.253.88) |
| 02:02.29 | *** join/#qi-hardware panda|x201 (~hzhang@221.219.114.216) |
| 02:28.10 | *** join/#qi-hardware cladamw (~Adam@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw) |
| 03:17.06 | *** join/#qi-hardware rejon_ (~rejon@li408-40.members.linode.com) |
| 04:21.10 | *** join/#qi-hardware xwalk (~crosswalk@rrcs-98-102-156-195.central.biz.rr.com) |
| 04:31.28 | *** join/#qi-hardware xiangfu (~xiangfu@fidelio.qi-hardware.com) |
| 04:34.38 | *** join/#qi-hardware pabspabspabs (~pabs@d122-111-240-235.per801.wa.optusnet.com.au) |
| 04:38.19 | qi-bot | [commit] Xiangfu: m1/patches/rtems: refresh (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/b6b61b1 |
| 04:44.44 | *** join/#qi-hardware pabs3 (~pabs@d175-38-164-68.per801.wa.optusnet.com.au) |
| 05:19.42 | *** join/#qi-hardware cladamw (~adamwang@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw) |
| 05:22.08 | *** join/#qi-hardware rejon_ (~rejon@123.122.251.152) |
| 05:44.15 | *** join/#qi-hardware rejon_ (~rejon@123.122.251.152) |
| 06:00.17 | *** join/#qi-hardware kristoffer (~kristoffe@c-c3dde555.010-30-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 06:00.58 | *** join/#qi-hardware phirsch_ (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-187-114.netcologne.de) |
| 06:01.57 | *** join/#qi-hardware jurting (~jommpa90_@ip-163-222-241-92.dialup.ice.net) |
| 06:03.21 | *** join/#qi-hardware phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-187-114.netcologne.de) |
| 06:25.05 | *** join/#qi-hardware jluis|work (~jpddb@83.247.136.72) |
| 06:25.15 | qi-bot | The build has FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.minimal-20120513-1405 |
| 06:26.28 | *** join/#qi-hardware phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-187-114.netcologne.de) |
| 06:52.59 | *** join/#qi-hardware wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@114.241.254.50) |
| 09:14.02 | *** join/#qi-hardware rejon (~rejon@123.122.251.152) |
| 09:34.38 | *** join/#qi-hardware cladamw (~Adam@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw) |
| 09:43.51 | *** join/#qi-hardware jivs_ (~jivs@nat-sta-slph1.tvu.ac.uk) |
| 09:45.49 | *** join/#qi-hardware rejon_ (~rejon@111.192.211.72) |
| 10:00.59 | *** join/#qi-hardware pabs3 (~pabs@d175-38-164-68.per801.wa.optusnet.com.au) |
| 10:26.57 | *** join/#qi-hardware rejon_ (~rejon@111.192.211.72) |
| 10:30.30 | *** join/#qi-hardware Ayla (~paul@ACaen-252-1-221-29.w86-215.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:52.04 | *** join/#qi-hardware rejon_ (~rejon@jp.fabricatorz.com) |
| 11:31.33 | *** join/#qi-hardware pabs3 (~pabs@d175-38-164-68.per801.wa.optusnet.com.au) |
| 11:32.41 | *** join/#qi-hardware GNUtoo-desktop (~GNUtoo@host63-133-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 11:35.07 | *** join/#qi-hardware DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 11:40.12 | *** join/#qi-hardware cladamw (~Adam@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw) |
| 11:50.43 | *** join/#qi-hardware cladamw_ (~adamwang@host-222.80-43-115.dynamic.totalbb.net.tw) |
| 12:16.46 | *** join/#qi-hardware xiangfu (~xiangfu@fidelio.qi-hardware.com) |
| 13:13.43 | *** join/#qi-hardware Martix (~martix@4.177.broadband3.iol.cz) |
| 14:33.13 | *** join/#qi-hardware kristoffer (~kristoffe@c-c3dde555.010-30-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 14:43.30 | *** join/#qi-hardware rejon_ (~rejon@jp.fabricatorz.com) |
| 14:47.42 | *** join/#qi-hardware emeb (~ericb@ip72-223-81-94.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 16:05.08 | *** join/#qi-hardware Ayla (~paul@ACaen-157-1-145-188.w90-62.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:22.34 | *** join/#qi-hardware Ayla (~paul@ACaen-252-1-185-118.w90-62.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:47.28 | *** join/#qi-hardware phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-187-114.netcologne.de) |
| 17:10.29 | *** join/#qi-hardware B_Lizzard (~havoc@athedsl-416166.home.otenet.gr) |
| 17:43.17 | *** join/#qi-hardware B_Lizzard (~havoc@athedsl-416166.home.otenet.gr) |
| 18:08.47 | *** join/#qi-hardware LunaVorax (~LunaVorax@ABordeaux-651-1-188-15.w109-214.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:10.20 | *** part/#qi-hardware LunaVorax (~LunaVorax@ABordeaux-651-1-188-15.w109-214.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:10.55 | *** join/#qi-hardware LunaVorax (~LunaVorax@ABordeaux-651-1-188-15.w109-214.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:12.58 | LunaVorax | Hello everyone! |
| 18:13.19 | *** join/#qi-hardware B_Lizzard (~havoc@athedsl-416166.home.otenet.gr) |
| 18:32.31 | *** join/#qi-hardware phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-89-130.netcologne.de) |
| 18:34.48 | *** join/#qi-hardware phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-89-130.netcologne.de) |
| 18:57.22 | *** join/#qi-hardware _whitelogger (~whitelogg@kaunan.whitequark.org) |
| 19:11.53 | *** join/#qi-hardware xwalk (~crosswalk@user-12l3484.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 19:47.31 | *** join/#qi-hardware xwalk (~crosswalk@user-12l3484.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 19:52.52 | *** join/#qi-hardware antgreen (~user@CPEf0def1ad1e4e-CM0019477f82fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:58.12 | *** join/#qi-hardware Ayla (~paul@ACaen-252-1-185-118.w90-62.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:11.51 | *** join/#qi-hardware Textmode (~boneidle@adsl-syd-4-20.ozonline.com.au) |
| 20:13.56 | *** join/#qi-hardware viric (~viric@unaffiliated/viric) |
| 20:26.45 | *** join/#qi-hardware phirsch (~smuxi@xdsl-89-0-89-130.netcologne.de) |
| 22:07.24 | *** join/#qi-hardware ezdagor (4cb28826@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.178.136.38) |
| 22:08.43 | ezdagor | Ok. Got the new OpenWRT image on the Nanonote. I noticed that the KS7010 driver is included in the Kernel. I see that the iw tools are installed, but I have no ways of using dhclient (or any other dh program) installed. So, How I do connect to a network using the KS7010 card? |
| 22:21.23 | *** join/#qi-hardware uwe_ (~uwe_@dslb-088-064-209-125.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:59.25 | *** join/#qi-hardware rejon_ (~rejon@jp.fabricatorz.com) |
| 23:03.22 | whitequark | does "ip link" show any wireless cards? |
| 23:12.44 | wolfspraul | good morning everybody |
| 23:12.47 | wolfspraul | coffee first :-) |
| 23:13.06 | wolfspraul | kristianpaul: wpwrak : let's take the pcb-diy thread here? feels a little off-topic in #milkymist |
| 23:13.40 | wolfspraul | first I am wondering about (my) goals in this |
| 23:13.47 | wolfspraul | definitely not to kill some time and "do something myself" |
| 23:14.21 | wolfspraul | I think my main goals are very fast turnaround (is 4 hours a realistic goal?), and low capital needed (let's say < 1000 USD) |
| 23:15.38 | wolfspraul | now for the first board, maybe an atben clone? or should it be more ambitious and try something new right away? |
| 23:16.35 | wolfspraul | I see lots of holes in the atben pcb - are those all vias? |
| 23:24.32 | DocScrutinizer | quite probably |
| 23:24.55 | DocScrutinizer | what else could they be? |
| 23:25.41 | wolfspraul | :-) |
| 23:25.44 | wolfspraul | sure |
| 23:27.11 | DocScrutinizer | I don't exactly understand what you're planning to do |
| 23:27.50 | DocScrutinizer | build a doublesided PCB with vias in <4h, with <1000 USD? |
| 23:28.20 | wolfspraul | no no |
| 23:28.28 | wolfspraul | one by one |
| 23:28.46 | wolfspraul | Werner has a nice pcb-making process that I'd like to learn as well and document |
| 23:29.06 | wolfspraul | I think it can come in handy in a variety of situations, especially because of the ability to do quick turnarounds |
| 23:29.33 | DocScrutinizer | the nicest PCB making process I know is "order it at a professional PCB maker" |
| 23:29.41 | wolfspraul | I just wanted to define the eventual goals, see what timeline and capital expenses werner thinks are realistic |
| 23:30.15 | wolfspraul | order from pcb make is slow and expensive for quick prototypes or experiments |
| 23:30.18 | wolfspraul | pcb maker |
| 23:30.29 | DocScrutinizer | sounds to me like "building your own primary cells" |
| 23:30.58 | wolfspraul | I'm not trying to convince you |
| 23:31.06 | wolfspraul | when did you last had one made at a pcb maker/ |
| 23:31.07 | wolfspraul | ? |
| 23:31.18 | DocScrutinizer | err, 7 years ago? |
| 23:31.34 | wolfspraul | alright :-) |
| 23:31.35 | DocScrutinizer | like 50EUR for a eurocard |
| 23:31.42 | whitequark | I second everything DocScrutinizer says |
| 23:31.51 | whitequark | I tried to make PCBs for ~half a year, intermittenly |
| 23:32.04 | whitequark | best I could do is some 1-side PCBs with abysmal resolution and a lot of failures |
| 23:32.13 | whitequark | it's not a 4-hour cheap and stable process |
| 23:32.22 | DocScrutinizer | no way |
| 23:32.32 | whitequark | well, yes, it's kinda cheap, chemicals mostly cost nothing |
| 23:32.38 | *** join/#qi-hardware xwalk (~crosswalk@user-12l3484.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 23:32.44 | whitequark | and you can do it fast after some training, but results will never be stable |
| 23:32.50 | whitequark | and drilling holes is a huge PITA |
| 23:33.06 | DocScrutinizer | the cleaning of colthes, room, waste disposal etc though |
| 23:33.15 | whitequark | (unless you have a CNC machine, in which case just drill out all the excess copper. that's how express PCB making works in industry) |
| 23:33.30 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 23:33.44 | whitequark | DocScrutinizer: well, that can fit in 4 hours if you try hard. not very convenient anyway, and requires a LOT of tries to master |
| 23:34.07 | wolfspraul | whitequark: when you order a pcb from a factory, how long do you wait until you get it back? |
| 23:34.14 | wolfspraul | do you do that a lot? |
| 23:34.15 | DocScrutinizer | esp it takes more that 1000 USD for a proper CNC |
| 23:34.23 | whitequark | wolfspraul: it depends greatly on where do I live |
| 23:34.35 | whitequark | my favorite fab makes a PCB next day and immediately sends it |
| 23:34.36 | DocScrutinizer | iirc we did wait like 4 days |
| 23:34.45 | DocScrutinizer | back when I did pusteflipper |
| 23:34.52 | whitequark | all for $25 or so per 10 pty |
| 23:35.10 | whitequark | but with russian post the turnaround time is 18-25 days |
| 23:35.44 | whitequark | mind you, I often need components from digikey too, so I send gerbers to fab and simultaneously buy components |
| 23:35.56 | DocScrutinizer | yes, you can get them same day, if you're willing to pay for same-day delivery |
| 23:35.59 | whitequark | the digikey -> shipito -> express mail route takes roughly the same time |
| 23:36.11 | whitequark | DocScrutinizer: I'm talking about a chinese company |
| 23:36.15 | whitequark | http://iteadstudio.com |
| 23:36.18 | DocScrutinizer | sure |
| 23:36.27 | DocScrutinizer | I only know about Germany |
| 23:36.37 | whitequark | wolfspraul: where do you currently live? |
| 23:36.42 | wolfspraul | Beijing |
| 23:36.56 | whitequark | oh, then the time will be much less for you |
| 23:37.00 | whitequark | maybe next day |
| 23:37.08 | whitequark | I don't know how fast exactly chinese post works |
| 23:37.31 | DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/dscf3349.jpg http://maemo.cloud-7.de/dscf3350.jpg |
| 23:37.35 | whitequark | iteadstudio makes 2- and 4-layer pcbs, they're pretty cheap and fast |
| 23:37.48 | wolfspraul | even same day probably if I had to |
| 23:38.21 | wolfspraul | but anyway we are missing the point. I didn't want to start a coolest nerd of the month who can do the hardest things at home competition or trashtalk. |
| 23:38.26 | DocScrutinizer | I think we had 5 of those on that eurocard formfactor, and fab cut it up for us, after production |
| 23:38.45 | DocScrutinizer | so basically 10EUR / PCB |
| 23:38.53 | whitequark | wolfspraul: if you just need the work to be done, send it to a fab |
| 23:38.56 | whitequark | you won't do better |
| 23:38.57 | wolfspraul | I'm going to document and try out werner's process, because I think it can come in very handy. I have enough experience with making pcbs to know that it's valuable :-) |
| 23:39.06 | wolfspraul | of course that is not the point |
| 23:39.15 | whitequark | what is? |
| 23:40.14 | wolfspraul | fast turnaround, for easy tweaking and customization |
| 23:40.46 | DocScrutinizer | dang, it's been 11 years ago |
| 23:41.36 | whitequark | well, I'm pretty sure that you'll fiddle with it for some months, waste a lot of time and eventually decide it's just easier to send to a fab |
| 23:41.39 | whitequark | your choice :) |
| 23:42.12 | wolfspraul | so much positive thinking here :-) |
| 23:42.18 | whitequark | it's messy, slow, hard and stinky process requiring a lot of skill and not scaling at all |
| 23:42.23 | DocScrutinizer | just pure pragmatism |
| 23:42.41 | whitequark | DocScrutinizer: btw, did you buy these modules? |
| 23:42.49 | DocScrutinizer | not yet |
| 23:42.58 | whitequark | I'm curious what you'll do with them |
| 23:43.04 | DocScrutinizer | I bought a lenovo T500 today |
| 23:43.06 | ezdagor | Yep. Shows that "eth0" is a wireless card. |
| 23:43.07 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 23:43.20 | whitequark | ezdagor: cool |
| 23:43.29 | whitequark | ezdagor: try "iw eth0 connect $ESSID" |
| 23:43.32 | whitequark | and look to dmesg |
| 23:43.53 | whitequark | oh, t500 is somewhat ancient, isn't it? |
| 23:45.16 | whitequark | I, personally, like how my samsung rc530 compiles kernel in 1.5 minutes. helps when you tweak something in "Kernel hacking" and the buildsystem suddenly decides it needs to rebuild EVERYTHING. |
| 23:45.16 | whitequark | or with building android |
| 23:45.24 | DocScrutinizer | and en passant managed to help maemo-community-ssu on a path that's manageable for the future, regarding repositories, packaging etc |
| 23:45.50 | whitequark | hmm? |
| 23:47.22 | DocScrutinizer | on every huge community foss project, you get those bleeding edge fanboys. You can't stop them from pushing shite like systemd into your project, just for the leetness, but you can give them a playground / sandbox where they won't kill your entire project with their leet new stuff |
| 23:47.25 | *** join/#qi-hardware methril (~methril@89.100.193.130) |
| 23:48.04 | ezdagor | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:48.12 | DocScrutinizer | we built this sandbox today |
| 23:48.43 | DocScrutinizer | resp we disgned it |
| 23:48.50 | DocScrutinizer | designed* |
| 23:48.57 | whitequark | oh, I see that maemo uses upstart too |
| 23:49.13 | whitequark | I like it more and back when I maintained my own embedded distro, it was used as initd |
| 23:49.18 | DocScrutinizer | yup, though this was an example straight from SHR ;-P |
| 23:50.01 | whitequark | yeah, I share your opinion on systemd |
| 23:50.18 | DocScrutinizer | on maemo it's about worlclock, camera, mediaplayer, and even a complete migration of kernel from ARM to THUMB |
| 23:50.25 | DocScrutinizer | right now |
| 23:50.43 | whitequark | what does systemd have to do with instruction set? |
| 23:50.49 | DocScrutinizer | we provided a playground for all this now, plus all the stuff to come |
| 23:50.59 | whitequark | I always thought it depends on your cpu code, and maybe ABI in some cases |
| 23:51.02 | whitequark | ahh |
| 23:51.05 | DocScrutinizer | systemd was an example unrelated to maemo |
| 23:51.49 | DocScrutinizer | we've seen this initV->systemd migration on SHR recently |
| 23:52.09 | DocScrutinizer | that's why I took it as an example how things can and will go awry |
| 23:52.31 | whitequark | what shr is based on? OE? |
| 23:52.36 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 23:52.48 | whitequark | removes the bookmark |
| 23:54.20 | DocScrutinizer | the funny thing is I triggered that whole "sandbox" thing though I basically never contributed any line of code to maemo-cssu |
| 23:55.06 | DocScrutinizer | so at least there I finally reached my dream position of a mere system architect |
