| 00:26.50 | kristianpaul | what's the "best" way to catch up a 64bytes word given trought a uart/serial link to then be loaded in to a memory mapped register for further analisys |
| 00:27.26 | kristianpaul | my first concer was how i do indentify the 64bytes word, and i guess i shall include a EOL string (\n right?) |
| 00:27.30 | kristianpaul | and thats it? |
| 00:27.59 | kristianpaul | i know looks easy but i wanted to confirm, the more simple the more dangerous small problems i may found.. |
| 00:32.42 | *** join/#qi-hardware jluis_ (~jluis@2001:5c0:1000:a::15d9) |
| 00:38.08 | *** join/#qi-hardware dvdk (~dvdkhlng@g225033017.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 00:40.30 | *** join/#qi-hardware Jay7 (jay@2.92.212.41) |
| 00:47.09 | wpwrak | kristianpaul: depends a bit on how much overhead you can accept |
| 00:47.29 | wpwrak | if you don't care, use hex encoding plus a newline |
| 00:47.55 | wpwrak | then you'll know that, if you don't receive 8 digits, it's invalid |
| 00:50.24 | wpwrak | err, 16 digits :) |
| 00:50.29 | kristianpaul | overhead woulr not much |
| 00:50.48 | kristianpaul | the 64bytes string will go to a double sha256 operation |
| 00:51.03 | kristianpaul | that at the moment takes 8 seconds !! |
| 00:51.05 | wpwrak | bitcoins ? :) |
| 00:51.17 | kristianpaul | yeah |
| 00:51.34 | *** join/#qi-hardware uwe_ (~uwe_@dslb-088-066-186-052.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 00:51.44 | wpwrak | oh dear, the most efficient way to earn yourself right into poverty ;-) |
| 00:52.08 | kristianpaul | money is sign of poverty anyway.. |
| 00:53.04 | wpwrak | that i'd consider a novel interpretation :) |
| 00:53.48 | kristianpaul | but i do like bitcoing as a exchange an hopefully alternative for trading.. |
| 00:54.24 | kristianpaul | s/exchange/currency |
| 00:54.25 | qi-bot | kristianpaul meant: "but i do like bitcoing as a currency an hopefully alternative for trading.." |
| 00:54.28 | wolfspraul | I'm wondering whether they can be used to reward data relay in a p2p network |
| 00:55.01 | wolfspraul | say I bring a packet of data from A to B, I get some (tiny) amount of bitcoins |
| 00:55.09 | wpwrak | kristianpaul: they may already have evolved beyond that point |
| 00:55.33 | wolfspraul | but there would need to be additional algorithms to determine partial deliveries, auction delivery prices |
| 00:55.52 | wpwrak | wolfspraul: you'd face some stiff gratis competition |
| 00:56.00 | wolfspraul | great |
| 00:56.07 | wolfspraul | that's the point, to establish the network at the lowest possible cost |
| 00:56.08 | kristianpaul | wpwrak: do you pay in argentina somwhere with bitcoins already? :) |
| 00:56.25 | wolfspraul | add up all the yearly revenues of all worldwide mobile carriers |
| 00:56.27 | wolfspraul | how much is that? |
| 00:56.31 | wolfspraul | let's say 500 billion USD |
| 00:56.35 | wolfspraul | even more probably |
| 00:56.56 | wolfspraul | is that the most efficient way to create a global mobile network? |
| 00:57.04 | wpwrak | kristianpaul: pretty soon, i'll probably have to grow potatoes or such to be able to trade. if you haven't noticed, argentina is deindustrializing at breakneck speed. |
| 00:57.20 | wolfspraul | not sure, but I think any serious p2p effort can only take off after you introduce *some* concept of reward |
| 00:57.28 | kristianpaul | deindustrializing, yeah i heard rumours |
| 00:57.37 | wolfspraul | the totally altruistic ones we already have for years, and it will forever be a tiny niche only imho |
| 00:57.39 | wpwrak | kristianpaul: yesterday, they killed book imports (also private ones, not just for companies) |
| 00:57.51 | kristianpaul | book !!! |
| 00:57.55 | kristianpaul | WHATT |
| 00:57.59 | wolfspraul | fon tried the sharing stuff, that was good for a while |
| 00:58.04 | kristianpaul | wow |
| 00:58.16 | wolfspraul | but imagine you can make a few bitcoins simply by installing some package on your openwrt router |
| 00:58.20 | wpwrak | kristianpaul: well, stalin killed the intellectuals. the populist government of argentina found a better way. |
| 00:58.33 | wolfspraul | you could suddenly have millions of people installing this package :-) |
| 00:58.40 | wolfspraul | and establishing a p2p network as a side effect |
| 00:59.03 | wpwrak | wolfspraul: the "altruistic" ones just use the default settings :) |
| 00:59.15 | wolfspraul | yes but is it growing? |
| 00:59.27 | wpwrak | dunno. does it have to ? |
| 00:59.32 | wolfspraul | the actual movement is in the exact opposite direction |
| 00:59.38 | kristianpaul | wpwrak: what's the size for the smallest box you got from digikey? |
| 00:59.41 | wolfspraul | sure, it doesn't :-) |
| 00:59.49 | wolfspraul | you can also turn off your computer now and do something else :-) |
| 01:00.53 | wpwrak | 1) find/invent name of popular download ("britney spears naked", death_of_toulouse_terrorist.wmv, whatever). 2) put your data into it. 3) fire up you p2p client. 4) wait half an hour. 5) tell your friends. |
| 01:01.43 | wpwrak | kristianpaul: no idea ;-) not terribly small. maybe shoebox-sized. but i generally order things for a value around USD 400-800 |
| 01:02.14 | kristianpaul | 800usd !! |
| 01:02.17 | kristianpaul | oh well |
| 01:02.20 | wpwrak | wolfspraul: what i mean is that it may be sufficiently big that you don't care about trends for the next few years |
| 01:02.40 | wolfspraul | free networks? |
| 01:03.00 | wpwrak | kristianpaul: shipping used to be more expensive. now, it would make sense for maybe around USD 200 already |
| 01:03.45 | wolfspraul | I think the chance for them to catch on has passed. that's why I think the next wave/chance may come when some means of payment are embedded right on top of the routing protocols |
| 01:03.51 | wpwrak | wolfspraul: well, torrent, kadmelia, etc. |
| 01:04.10 | wolfspraul | ah, I mean the first connection |
| 01:04.18 | wolfspraul | free wifi spot |
| 01:04.45 | wolfspraul | the net is striving, no doubt |
| 01:05.27 | wpwrak | oh, access. yeah, wireless access is still an issue. |
| 01:05.54 | wolfspraul | yes |
| 01:06.14 | wpwrak | the problem is a lack of sense of pointless heroism |
| 01:08.30 | wpwrak | e.g., if everyone just opened their wireless network, and the few who get sued by some asshole, would just try to injure/murder their assailants in the courtroom, heroically sacrificing their own lives, the whole situation may quickly settle at a new equilibrium |
| 01:08.45 | wpwrak | but since people don't do that, this will never happen ... |
| 01:10.47 | mth | if we can get a majority to care about sane copyrights, the laws would be changed and there would be no base for such a lawsuit |
| 01:11.44 | wpwrak | mth: isn't democracy the process of fairly electing the most efficient liar ? |
| 01:12.30 | mth | sometimes; I guess the trick is to force them to lie so convincingly that it is indistinguishable from telling the truth |
| 01:12.40 | mth | in the sense that they'll do the right things for the wrong reason |
| 01:13.37 | wpwrak | once they have your vote, and it's a representative democracy, why would they bother ? |
| 01:13.54 | mth | because there is always a next election |
| 01:14.08 | wpwrak | how many times can they be reelected ? |
| 01:14.26 | mth | I don't think we have a limit in the Netherlands |
| 01:14.47 | mth | but popularity doesn't last very long usually, so they are replaced after 10 years or so |
| 01:14.50 | wpwrak | and would one more term net them more profits than making the best (for them) of the current term ? |
| 01:15.03 | mth | sometimes much sooner than that |
| 01:15.05 | wpwrak | ten years isn't too bad |
| 01:16.15 | mth | here politicians usually get well paying jobs after their political career, not before or during |
| 01:16.49 | wpwrak | yup. so nobody can accuse them of being corrupt :) |
| 01:17.48 | mth | it's not ideal, but it's better than having someone like Berlusconi or the "campaign donations" of the USA |
| 01:18.25 | wpwrak | well, have politics in italy every been sane ? |
| 01:18.30 | wpwrak | s/y/ |
| 01:18.31 | qi-bot | wpwrak meant: "well, have politics in ital ever been sane ?" |
| 01:18.45 | wpwrak | close :) |
| 01:20.17 | wpwrak | and the USA simply have mastered the art of carrying the label of "democracy" without the ruling class suffering its disadvantages |
| 01:20.27 | mth | not that I can remember, but it used to be one government after another, lasting about a year each, while Berlusconi was around for a very long time, mostly figuring out how to stay out of jail rather than running the country |
| 01:21.14 | wpwrak | so in terms of running the country, not much changed. only the distractions did |
| 01:22.55 | *** join/#qi-hardware wolfspraul (~wolfsprau@114.241.246.140) |
| 01:23.07 | mth | Belgium didn't do so bad when they were without a government for over a year, maybe a government isn't really required most of the time |
| 01:24.39 | wpwrak | did they still implement new EU laws during that interregnum ? |
| 01:27.36 | mth | I think the old government was still running day to day things, just not allowed to make major changes |
| 01:27.48 | mth | at least that's how it works here, not sure about Belgium |
| 01:28.25 | wpwrak | oh, then nothing had really changed. they were just freed from pretending to make changes |
| 01:28.50 | mth | in some cases, the drive to make changes is what is causing problems |
| 01:29.04 | mth | for example, we've had one minister of education after another making big changes |
| 01:29.20 | wpwrak | while in truth, everything significant is now decided at the EU level anyway. and more and more even in secret negotiations |
| 01:29.23 | mth | the teachers and book writers couldn't keep up at all |
| 01:29.38 | wpwrak | ah yes, the overzealous can be an annoyance |
| 01:30.17 | mth | also, new systems were introduced before the previous one could be properly evaluated, so there was little opportunity to learn anything from the results |
| 01:30.19 | wpwrak | if they do this consistently, you may want to consider simply ignoring them :) |
| 01:31.07 | mth | ignoring doesn't really work if they use earmarked budgets or change the state exam requirements |
| 01:31.39 | wpwrak | if they decide to implement sanctions for following set of rules for time t, there will be a new set of rules t+1 by the time this even reaches the courts :) |
| 01:32.07 | wpwrak | s/for fo/for not fo |
| 01:32.07 | qi-bot | wpwrak meant: "if they decide to implement sanctions for not following set of rules for time t, there will be a new set of rules t+1 by the time this even reaches the courts :)" |
| 01:32.48 | wpwrak | well, with earmarked budgets, you have to please the decision makers directly anyway |
| 01:34.38 | wpwrak | the only problem occurs if all they crave is submission and compliance. everything else, girls, boys, drugs, money, or fake praise could be provided easily |
| 01:36.59 | wpwrak | i mean, if they weren't deeply corrupt, there weren't in politics :) |
| 01:37.46 | mth | I think a lot of the people who enter politics are actually there because of their ideals, but if they stay too long they'll be corrupted |
| 01:39.40 | wpwrak | yeah. i guess are nice to see them through the first few weeks. until they can find a comfortable place at the troughs and settle in |
| 01:40.55 | wpwrak | i think the only remotely hopeful concept is direct democracy. as long as the people can stop any madness relatively quickly, that should stop at least the wildest escapades |
| 01:41.17 | mth | I don't think direct democracy will work for most issues |
| 01:41.27 | mth | 90% of politics is about how much money to spend where |
| 01:41.28 | wpwrak | of course, this requires a high level of education. or else it just falls prey to populism even quicker than anything else |
| 01:41.43 | mth | if you ask people if they want more teachers, nurses etc, they'll all say "yes" |
| 01:41.49 | mth | but it's always a tradeoff |
| 01:42.41 | mth | modern society is simply too complex to have a reasonable understanding of everything, even if you're smart and educated |
| 01:42.48 | wpwrak | it seems to work well in switzerland. they have teachers. they have nurses. they have plenty of other things, too. |
| 01:43.05 | wpwrak | and direct democracy doesn't mean you have to vote on every little detail |
| 01:43.48 | wpwrak | if the administation has some idea and not enough people disagree with it, then it passes without involving everyong |
| 01:43.53 | wpwrak | s/ong/one |
| 01:43.54 | qi-bot | wpwrak meant: "if the administation has some idea and not enough people disagree with it, then it passes without involving everyone" |
| 01:44.17 | mth | California is nearly bankrupt because the people votes that the government should take care of X, Y and Z, but neither of the parties wants to raise taxes to pay for that |
| 01:44.47 | wpwrak | perhaps a problem of education ? |
| 01:45.19 | wpwrak | the US have a large span between the top and the bottom of their voting society (and then some even lower) |
| 01:46.05 | wpwrak | as i said, i don't think direct democracy works without proper education. and proper education implies a reasonably balanced society |
| 01:46.46 | mth | if you want everyone to make informed decisions, it's not just about giving them a good base education, they have to follow current events as well |
| 01:47.11 | wpwrak | that is easier today than it ever was |
| 01:47.21 | mth | I think some direct democracy can work, but it won't be able to replace the government |
| 01:47.39 | wpwrak | besides, you can inform they before they have to vote. specifically on the issue at hand |
| 01:47.40 | mth | it's easy to get access to any info you want, but not to digest it |
| 01:48.06 | wpwrak | there we come back to the education :) |
| 01:48.23 | wpwrak | and of course, those things do get discussed in the media before they voted on |
| 01:48.51 | mth | what I mean is, it would require many hours per week per voter to make informed decisions if you want to run a country on mostly direct democracy |
| 01:48.58 | wpwrak | and yes, you need an administration to take care of daily business |
| 01:49.44 | wpwrak | people probably spend some hours per week anyway, dealing with politics in one way or another |
| 01:49.58 | *** join/#qi-hardware dvdk (~dvdkhlng@g225045144.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 01:50.11 | mth | true, but I usually follow only the subject I am interested in, not everything that goes on |
| 01:51.00 | wpwrak | you're not obliged to vote on everything. also, there can be several levels of votes. communal, regional, national. |
| 01:51.52 | mth | the main problem I have with politics as it works here today is that almost every party seems to have the goal to become as large as possible |
| 01:52.09 | mth | while they should just have a vision and whoever likes that vision can vote for it |
| 01:52.16 | wpwrak | if the neighbouring town wants to rename a street to "harry potter avenue", there's no reason to involve the rest of the country. even if it may be a hot topic in that town. |
| 01:53.09 | wpwrak | yeah. it seems that very little significant has been added to politics after Machiavelli |
| 01:54.13 | mth | it happens to some charities as well: they become institutions focused on their own survival and growth, rather than their original goal |
| 01:54.55 | mth | people in the shopping district will ask you to donate to some cause, but they're just hired, they don't believe in the cause themselves |
| 01:55.06 | wpwrak | as an engineer, i doubt the concept of charities. particularly long-lived ones. |
| 01:55.15 | mth | the lack of enthusiasm shows when you ask them a little about the cause |
| 01:56.08 | wpwrak | charities try to manage a problem. engineers try to solve it. of course, managing is usually more profitable. |
| 01:56.43 | mth | not every problem is solvable though, or solving might take a really long time |
| 01:57.32 | wpwrak | true. but i'm worried about the focus shifting more and more towards managing problems. |
| 01:58.19 | wpwrak | and "a long time" is often measured in legislature periods. if it can't be started, executed, and cashed in politically, then it's not worth doing |
| 01:58.50 | wpwrak | (all that within those ~4 years typically available) |
| 01:59.20 | mth | there are cases where this is an issue: in NL, the data about drug addicts is collected by organizations that help addicts, while in some other countries it is collected by people who fight drugs |
| 01:59.40 | mth | the bias has an impact on whether high or low estimates are reported |
| 02:00.48 | wpwrak | hmm. for the ones "fighting drugs" (they're not), i guess it's high when a new government takes control, and low right before the next elections ? :) |
| 02:01.41 | mth | I don't know if there is such a sawtooth, but it does lead to lower numbers overall |
| 02:02.10 | mth | at least, that's what some people think, there are no hard numbers to prove it |
| 02:02.46 | mth | it's hard to find people that are both independent and knowledgeable |
| 02:03.14 | mth | because often to become knowledgeable on a subject, you spend a lot of time on it as part of some organisation |
| 02:03.23 | wpwrak | yeah :) |
| 02:04.39 | wpwrak | anyway, i doubt europe will contribute much towards improving the global drug situation soon. governments a generally too far on the right for that. |
| 02:05.23 | wpwrak | maybe south america, after the world cup, when brazil no longer has to project a clean image |
| 02:05.24 | mth | left and right is just a wave, it might swing to the left again pretty soon |
| 02:05.50 | mth | NL was progressive in their drugs policy once, but has stagnated for decades now |
| 02:06.05 | wpwrak | yes, NL is a bit of a disappointment there |
| 02:06.09 | mth | I'm not a fan of drugs, but legalization solves more problems that it causes imo |
| 02:06.21 | wpwrak | i guess a lack of regional support played a role in that |
| 02:06.44 | mth | they ran an experiment with semi-legalization, but forgot to conclude that experiment by evaluating and drawing conclusions |
| 02:06.56 | mth | instead, they just let the experiment run on and on |
| 02:07.27 | wpwrak | i saw the importance of that in the 1980es in switzerland. back then, it was very lax on drugs. the consequence: all the addicts of europe, mainly heroin, flocked to zurich. |
| 02:07.43 | mth | 30 years ago the neighbours were a big issue, but nowadays some other EU countries are more relaxed about drugs than NL is |
| 02:08.34 | mth | I'm not sure everything should be legalized, but at least stuff like weed and mushrooms should be |
| 02:08.42 | mth | they're not more harmful than alcohol |
| 02:09.45 | wpwrak | i'd say legalize everything. treat it like medicine. if you want cocaine on a prescription, fine, here's your week's package |
| 02:09.55 | wpwrak | it would stop being cool before you know it |
| 02:10.20 | wpwrak | there'd be zero motivation to get non-addicts hooked |
| 02:10.27 | mth | the problem might be with stuff that is addictive after even a small number of uses |
| 02:10.36 | mth | people are going to try stuff |
| 02:10.47 | wpwrak | and those who have become addicted would have a much better chance of running halfway normal lives |
| 02:10.48 | mth | not sure though if that would be more people if it's legal |
| 02:11.28 | mth | in any case, legalization would cut off a lot of funding from organized crime |
| 02:11.43 | wpwrak | there may even be means to cure an addiction. that's a sector with very little research. for obvious reasons |
| 02:11.56 | wpwrak | (crime funding) exactly |
| 02:12.21 | wpwrak | do you have much drug-related violence in NL ? street robberies and such ? |
| 02:12.47 | mth | robberies not so often, but violent revenge between criminals is an issue |
| 02:12.59 | mth | we've had several cases of that here in Eindhoven |
| 02:13.11 | mth | houses shot at with automatic weapons etc |
| 02:13.12 | wpwrak | ah, as long as they kill each other, i wouldn't worry a lot :) |
| 02:13.30 | mth | usually it's only the criminals that get hurt, but it's still dangerous for bystanders |
| 02:13.42 | wpwrak | yeah |
| 02:14.34 | mth | and there are problems like illegal growing of cannabis, where they tap power illegally and often create fire hazards |
| 02:15.01 | wpwrak | in south america, very violent robberies by addicts are a big issue. they're virtually always have firearms and are more than willing to use them at the slightest difficulty, real or imagined |
| 02:15.03 | mth | apparently there is not so much profit in it if they actually have to pay for the electricity that the lamps burns |
| 02:15.16 | wpwrak | heh ;-) |
| 02:15.23 | wpwrak | that's kinda sweet |
| 02:15.35 | mth | here addicts mainly steal bicylces :( |
| 02:15.42 | mth | well, better than armed robbery |
| 02:18.26 | wpwrak | so, a lot less urgency to do something about it. of course, then there's mexico, where drug crime has more or less reached the proportions of a civil war |
| 02:19.14 | mth | a lot of that is probably export though, so a different approach to drugs elsewhere could improve the situation in Mexico |
| 02:19.26 | wpwrak | i wonder what would happen if the mexical government would simply legalize everything, including trade. war with the US ? how would the nearly 50% people of mexican origin living in the south of the US react to that ? |
| 02:20.01 | wpwrak | well, the problem of mexico are obviously the US. not just for drugs, of course |
| 02:20.02 | mth | I don't think they would get invaded, but they might get isolated economically |
| 02:20.26 | wpwrak | that may be an improvement :) |
| 02:21.35 | wpwrak | as long as the US don't try to sink chinese freight ships ... |
| 02:22.15 | *** join/#qi-hardware zear (~zear@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:8a2:20d5:2abe:b43b) |
| 02:22.52 | mth | why would they do that? they've lost a lot of their own manufacturing, they need Chinese goods now |
| 02:24.07 | wpwrak | yes. so if they isolate mexico, mexico would still have access to pretty much everything they need |
| 02:25.18 | wpwrak | it would require a lot of rearranging of local industry, plus it would complicate life for families depending on payments from relatives who have crossed the border. but it doubt it would be an existential threat. |
| 02:25.47 | wpwrak | plus, they could then collect taxes on drug transit :-) |
| 02:29.44 | wolfspraul | wpwrak: I want to promote boom a little to other open hardware projects |
| 02:29.55 | wolfspraul | probably in private mails, maybe also some lists if that is appropriate |
| 02:30.24 | wpwrak | wolfspraul: kicad-using projects, i hope ? :) |
| 02:30.25 | wolfspraul | I don't expect any quick results, but this is a tool that I believe is solid and will stay for the long run. so it's good to tell people early about it. |
| 02:30.41 | wolfspraul | first the idea |
| 02:31.00 | wolfspraul | just saying, I feel we don't talk about it enough as an independently valuable open source software |
| 02:31.09 | wolfspraul | my question: what is the version? |
| 02:31.11 | wpwrak | maybe once it's been used for a while in M1 |
| 02:31.26 | wpwrak | there's no current version you'd want to recommend |
| 02:31.30 | wpwrak | the new one isn't finished yet |
| 02:31.40 | wolfspraul | the one we had last year, was that 1.0 ? 0.1 ? I think some kind of versioning is important so others (like me) can talk about it |
| 02:31.46 | wolfspraul | sure sure |
| 02:32.24 | wpwrak | the old one is slow, hard to configure, and since digi-key changed their database interface, it has only manually provided data for its database anyway |
| 02:32.48 | wpwrak | naw, it has no version :) old vs. new it is :) |
| 02:33.17 | wolfspraul | will it never have a version? |
| 02:33.25 | wpwrak | and it's a lot more like version 0 than 1 ;-) it was basically a proof of concept. not a tool for production use |
| 02:33.41 | wolfspraul | yes of course, I know. I used it. |
| 02:33.58 | wpwrak | (version) dunno. maybe a git commit hash :) |
| 02:34.06 | wolfspraul | but also as long as you just talk about it as some sort of 'only in my garage goofing thing', then most people will not bother to even look |
| 02:34.29 | wpwrak | sure. but it's not at a point where they'd go "wow" |
| 02:34.41 | wolfspraul | the concept is very strong |
| 02:34.46 | wolfspraul | and fills a void |
| 02:35.11 | wpwrak | i think most projects simply do manual sourcing once and then just try to resist change |
| 02:35.17 | wolfspraul | or are you aware of similar efforts? |
| 02:35.23 | wolfspraul | oh sure, that's what they do |
| 02:35.40 | wolfspraul | and that's one reason where there is so little (let's say 0) reuse between open hardware projects |
| 02:35.45 | wpwrak | for me, the main feature is that it tells me if there's a problem in my shopping list |
| 02:36.03 | wpwrak | the automatic component selection is sort of an added benefit |
| 02:36.24 | wpwrak | (reuse) hmm, not sure if the problem is the BOM |
| 02:36.39 | wolfspraul | one of them |
| 02:36.44 | wolfspraul | often overlooked even |
| 02:37.46 | *** join/#qi-hardware zear (~zear@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:8a2:20d5:2abe:b43b) |
| 02:37.58 | wolfspraul | but sure we are on the same page. I just wanted to ask about versioning, and your answer is clear. |
| 02:38.10 | wpwrak | it's probably more like this order: 1) overall platform (e.g., avr vs. arm vs. 8051 or whatever). 2) tool suite. 3) design goals and capabilities. 4) component libraries. 5) and then perhaps BOM processing |
| 02:38.36 | wolfspraul | I think a software that has no version number barely exists to many. |
| 02:39.00 | wolfspraul | think about the perspective of an outside roaming the interwebs for interesting new things |
| 02:39.06 | wpwrak | we can invent versions at some point in time :) |
| 02:39.20 | wolfspraul | yes. got it. |
| 02:39.20 | wpwrak | even retroactively |
| 02:39.21 | wolfspraul | thanks! |
| 02:41.17 | wpwrak | for me, the development process is generally more fluid. i try to avoid creating long periods where things don't work. so at the end of the day, you should have something that's either the same as in the morning, or a little better |
| 02:42.31 | wpwrak | this makes the "recommended version" pretty much always the latest |
| 02:43.19 | wolfspraul | that works only for 1-person projects or if you have a very strong test suite |
| 02:43.36 | wpwrak | you can always do risky development in a branch |
| 02:43.38 | wolfspraul | 'works' in the sense that stable/functioning software is what creates value, not broken new features |
| 02:43.56 | wolfspraul | I agree we are in no rush about boom versioning |
| 02:44.06 | wpwrak | i think the main issue with a fluid model is that it's difficult to create "newsworthy" items |
| 02:44.10 | wolfspraul | I can talk about it without version number as well, no problem. |
| 02:44.32 | wpwrak | releases are good for that. ten highlights. that gets more attention than a small piece every week |
| 02:45.05 | wpwrak | are you thinking of any specific opportunity to pimp it ? |
| 02:45.53 | wolfspraul | no, just thinking how to talk about it as an independently valuable piece of software |
| 02:46.07 | wolfspraul | then I realized it has no version numbers :-) |
| 02:46.47 | mth | if it's in git, it has a unique ID |
| 02:47.39 | wpwrak | the memorable aa2fe3ef1644a2ba92f06bd7d1180d0532a7c4f6 at the moment ;-) |
| 02:48.17 | wolfspraul | the version numbers I meant are not auto-generated |
| 02:48.30 | wolfspraul | they have to do with the author's pride in his or her work |
| 02:48.53 | wpwrak | funny. i don't think heise newsticker ever referred to a new release by its git hash. maybe there's some oddball way to get press attention :) |
| 02:48.56 | wolfspraul | you can look at any creative field, and creators care about when their baby is released, how, etc. |
| 02:49.18 | wolfspraul | if the creator already doesn't care, then surely nobody else will either |
| 02:49.19 | mth | step 1 is to have something to find the source belonging to a binary, step 2 is to only pick those revisions that are good |
| 02:49.32 | mth | if you can't have step 2, having only step 1 is still worth something |
| 02:49.46 | wpwrak | s/not care/it too avantgarde/ :) |
| 02:50.16 | wpwrak | s/it/is |
| 02:50.17 | qi-bot | wpwrak meant: "funny. i don't think heise newsticker ever referred to a new release by iss gis hash. maybe there's some oddball way to get press attention :)" |
| 02:50.21 | wpwrak | bah |
| 02:52.31 | *** join/#qi-hardware wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) |
| 04:34.42 | *** part/#qi-hardware orsonzhai (~zhai@1.202.15.210) |
| 05:45.22 | *** join/#qi-hardware xiangfu (~xiangfu@fidelio.qi-hardware.com) |
| 06:11.01 | *** join/#qi-hardware xian9fu (~xiangfu@fidelio.qi-hardware.com) |
| 07:36.49 | *** join/#qi-hardware LunaVorax (~LunaVorax@cau33-2-82-227-183-10.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:35.41 | *** join/#qi-hardware viric (~viric@unaffiliated/viric) |
| 08:41.59 | *** join/#qi-hardware LunaVorax (~LunaVorax@cau33-2-82-227-183-10.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:13.04 | *** join/#qi-hardware kyak (~kyak@95-26-250-74.broadband.corbina.ru) |
| 10:13.05 | *** join/#qi-hardware kyak (~kyak@unaffiliated/kyak) |
| 10:45.42 | *** join/#qi-hardware DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 10:51.08 | *** join/#qi-hardware GNUtoo (~gnutoo@host155-102-dynamic.10-188-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:54.50 | qi-bot | [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Merged LinkAction class into its base class. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/57ad81e |
| 10:54.51 | qi-bot | [commit] Maarten ter Huurne: Added missing #includes. (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/d2413d8 |
| 11:18.28 | *** join/#qi-hardware pasteur90 (79404363@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.64.67.99) |
| 11:29.14 | *** join/#qi-hardware zear_ (~zear@2001:0:5ef5:79fb:8a2:20d5:2abe:b43b) |
| 12:20.56 | *** join/#qi-hardware Ayla (~paul@186.132.123.78.rev.sfr.net) |
| 12:31.14 | *** join/#qi-hardware LunaVorax (~LunaVorax@cau33-2-82-227-183-10.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:07.26 | qi-bot | The build has FAILED: http://fidelio.qi-hardware.com/~xiangfu/building/Nanonote/Ben/openwrt-xburst.full_system-20120323-0957 |
| 13:24.32 | *** join/#qi-hardware wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) |
| 13:57.31 | *** join/#qi-hardware LunaVorax (~LunaVorax@cau33-2-82-227-183-10.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:18.42 | *** join/#qi-hardware zenlunatic (~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:12.05 | *** join/#qi-hardware urandom__ (~user@p548A2274.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:18.54 | *** join/#qi-hardware zenlunatic (~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 15:24.55 | *** join/#qi-hardware Ayla (~paul@84.155.26.93.rev.sfr.net) |
| 15:34.12 | *** join/#qi-hardware Ayla (~paul@84.155.26.93.rev.sfr.net) |
| 15:43.01 | *** join/#qi-hardware zear (~zear@h196n1-g-kt-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 15:43.01 | *** join/#qi-hardware DocScrutinizer51 (~lagrange@lagrange.cloud-7.de) |
| 15:43.01 | *** join/#qi-hardware rektide (~rektide@deneb.eldergods.com) |
| 17:06.16 | *** join/#qi-hardware uwe_ (~uwe_@dslb-088-066-186-052.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:21.55 | *** join/#qi-hardware Ayla (~paul@84.155.26.93.rev.sfr.net) |
| 18:48.08 | *** join/#qi-hardware LunaVorax (~LunaVorax@cau33-2-82-227-183-10.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:53.36 | *** join/#qi-hardware kuribas (~user@d54C43316.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:43.30 | *** join/#qi-hardware B_Lizzard (~havoc@athedsl-429072.home.otenet.gr) |
| 21:25.03 | whitequark | wolfspraul: boom? |
| 21:54.26 | *** join/#qi-hardware LunaVorax (~LunaVorax@cau33-2-82-227-183-10.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:18.16 | *** join/#qi-hardware panda (~hzhang@2001:c08:3700:ffff::423) |
| 22:20.34 | wpwrak | whitequark: http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/eda-tools/source/tree/master/boom/README |
| 22:21.24 | wpwrak | or, for work in progress that doesn't do anything yet, http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/eda-tools/source/tree/master/b2/ |
| 22:23.41 | whitequark | hm |
| 22:23.43 | whitequark | interesting |
| 22:24.32 | whitequark | but it won't work with eagle |
| 22:27.25 | *** join/#qi-hardware jivs (~jivs@cpc17-haye18-2-0-cust235.17-4.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 22:28.04 | wpwrak | well, you could write a BOM format converter |
| 22:28.25 | whitequark | eagle's is space-delimited text |
| 22:28.33 | whitequark | like R0 10K MURATA |
| 22:29.26 | *** join/#qi-hardware dvdk (~dvdkhlng@g225045144.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:31.35 | wpwrak | kicad uses semicolon-delimited text :) (well, it has two formats. that's the one that comes from eeschema. i think pcbnew uses CSV) |
| 22:33.59 | wpwrak | of course, i also want to an interactive interface, to assist in component selection when making the schematics. that wouldn't be possible with anything closed source. |
| 22:34.17 | wpwrak | or at least less convenient to use |
| 22:34.19 | whitequark | well, that may be a reason to switch to kicad |
| 22:34.29 | whitequark | _if_ it is a good CAD for schematic capture |
| 22:34.34 | whitequark | which I never heard of at the moment |
| 22:37.45 | wpwrak | i find it quite tolerable for schematic capture |
| 22:38.39 | wpwrak | we need to redo the symbol library, though. the default one is not very complete and full of small inconsistencies. but that's a relatively minor problem. |
| 22:47.04 | whitequark | hm |
| 22:47.10 | whitequark | ping me when you'll do that |
| 22:47.13 | whitequark | I want to look into kicad. |
| 23:05.39 | *** join/#qi-hardware jow_lapt1p (~jow@ffx.subsignal.org) |
| 23:09.17 | *** join/#qi-hardware Guest14119 (~hzhang@2001:5c0:1000:a::2f3f) |
| 23:14.33 | *** join/#qi-hardware wej (~j@m2.mullvad.net) |
| 23:15.25 | *** join/#qi-hardware urandom__ (~user@p548A42ED.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:37.15 | kristianpaul | notice its digikey basket is empty :-| |
| 23:37.27 | *** join/#qi-hardware _whitelogger (~whitelogg@kaunan.whitequark.org) |
| 23:48.23 | kristianpaul | wpwrak: what kind tweezer should i need to hold a QFN chip? |
| 23:49.09 | kristianpaul | i need to make this order from digikey worth.. so any other iten you consider i'll add it (if this not cost 200USD :-D) |
| 23:50.40 | kristianpaul | i have zero tool related to SMD stuff, atually my soldering iron is just 60W.. i gues it will work |
| 23:57.16 | *** join/#qi-hardware zenlunatic (~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |