| 00:01.22 | *** join/#picogui ahnkana_lurgyman (ahnkana@128.138.195.66) |
| 00:01.26 | ahnkana_lurgyman | heheh |
| 00:01.32 | ahnkana_lurgyman | yea for two people on one name |
| 00:01.51 | ahnkana_lurgyman | ~particle of the day |
| 00:01.56 | | excited anti-neutron |
| 00:02.05 | KSoze | ~particle of the day |
| 00:02.05 | | ionized anti-electron |
| 00:02.16 | KSoze | ~particle of the day |
| 00:02.17 | | excited positrino |
| 00:02.27 | KSoze | ibot: i said "day"! |
| 00:02.28 | | KSoze: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox? |
| 00:02.36 | ahnkana_lurgyman | lol |
| 00:02.46 | KSoze | ibot: no, i just mean you can't switch particles of the day, in mid day. |
| 00:02.47 | | KSoze: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface. |
| 00:03.50 | KSoze | ibot: there is no such thing as a "positrino", a "anti-electron" is a positron, and it cannot be ionized. |
| 00:03.50 | | I think you lost me on that one, KSoze |
| 00:04.22 | KSoze | ibot: quite spouting shit about particles you just make up, or I'll open a can of whoop-ass on you. |
| 00:04.23 | | You are moron #2, KSoze |
| 00:04.57 | *** join/#picogui lurgyllama (eiuahkjdhf@128.138.195.66) |
| 00:06.22 | ahn_ITLL | captain_proton: if and when you see this, we have a question regarding your liking of apicy foods...and a posible stealing of evan's kitchen in the middle of the week |
| 00:06.43 | ahn_ITLL | darth_balls: hope that is okay with you |
| 00:18.03 | *** join/#picogui frumin (~frumin@dialup-63.212.147.91.Dial1.Detroit1.Level3.net) |
| 00:38.27 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:40.01 | Xent | hey scanli |
| 00:40.02 | Xent | er... |
| 00:40.06 | Xent | yeah... |
| 00:40.24 | Xent | hehehe |
| 00:43.49 | *** join/#picogui Augustine (~brandon@h-66-167-167-140.DNVTCO56.covad.net) |
| 00:50.05 | lurgyman_ITLL | Augustine: hi there |
| 01:00.29 | Xent | today has been one of my crappier days... |
| 01:19.47 | *** join/#picogui Soopaman (~soopaman@h24-66-55-163.wp.shawcable.net) |
| 01:46.24 | *** join/#picogui caffeine (~khedspet@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 02:04.24 | *** join/#picogui kidder (~s@h24-65-171-188.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 02:36.29 | KeyserSoze | ibot: seen scanline? |
| 02:36.33 | | scanline is currently on #picogui (6h 36m 53s) #elinux (6h 36m 53s) #openembedded (6h 36m 53s) #bzflag (6h 36m 53s). Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 1h 58m 6s |
| 02:36.47 | Xent | hey KeyserSoze |
| 02:46.06 | merlin262 | bleep |
| 02:47.35 | *** join/#picogui Talez (bleh@d3t4.arach.net.au) |
| 02:48.53 | merlin262 | hi kergoth |
| 02:49.50 | kergoth | hey |
| 02:50.01 | kergoth | man irc is dead tonight |
| 02:50.14 | Xent | kergoth: which is good... I have homework that needs doing ;o) |
| 02:50.32 | kergoth | I have a house to clean |
| 02:50.33 | kergoth | yet |
| 02:50.38 | kergoth | I think i'll just sit here instead |
| 02:50.41 | Xent | hehehe |
| 02:50.48 | Xent | kergoth: know anything about the pumping lemma? |
| 02:50.53 | kergoth | fraid not |
| 02:50.59 | Xent | damn... |
| 02:51.05 | Xent | anyone know anything about the pumping lemma? |
| 03:01.16 | Xent | ah.. figured it out... except the proof seems slightly contrived ;) |
| 03:04.13 | KeyserSoze | when life gives you pumping lemmas, make pumping lemonade! |
| 03:04.23 | Xent | and... this next proof is about the same as my last one... that's no good |
| 03:05.49 | Xent | KeyserSoze: I had to prove the language such that all strings are of the form ww (where w is some string of 0s and 1s) is not regular... |
| 03:06.05 | Xent | this next one is proving it for languages ws where s is the reversal of w... |
| 03:07.14 | lurgyman | scanline: i alarmed you for no reason |
| 03:07.18 | Xent | I could go into all the steps of the proof... but there's some background that's needed... and that would take extra time ;o) |
| 03:07.35 | lurgyman | sg1 season 2 volume 1 is hiding in plain sight....in the case |
| 03:07.58 | merlin262 | they've found the remains of the astronauts |
| 03:08.02 | merlin262 | :( |
| 03:08.35 | Xent | merlin262: that's sad |
| 03:09.36 | merlin262 | I know |
| 03:11.17 | KeyserSoze | is scanline around? |
| 03:12.56 | Xent | scanline: are you around/ |
| 03:12.57 | Xent | ? |
| 03:13.36 | KeyserSoze | i thought maybe someone who was physically near him would know better than I do. |
| 03:14.38 | Xent | damned portable phone... taking out my 802.11b access... |
| 03:17.35 | KeyserSoze | can two 802.11 computers talk to each other? or do they always need a switch of some sort? |
| 03:17.44 | Xent | they can |
| 03:17.47 | Xent | ad-hoc |
| 03:17.59 | kergoth | yep, adhoc |
| 03:18.07 | kergoth | or use hostap with one of them in master mode |
| 03:18.11 | kergoth | turn one of hte machines into an access point |
| 03:18.12 | kergoth | hehe |
| 03:18.54 | Xent | kergoth: I tried that with my zaurus... and I could get it working... but when I switched back to adhoc I could get it working as an adhoc network (this was 3.0) |
| 03:19.04 | *** join/#picogui caffeine^ (~caffeine^@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 03:19.08 | kergoth | .. |
| 03:19.15 | kergoth | could...but...could.. |
| 03:19.16 | KeyserSoze | should one of those could's have a "n't"? |
| 03:19.19 | kergoth | did you need a not? |
| 03:19.21 | kergoth | hehe, yeah |
| 03:19.41 | Xent | hehehe.. |
| 03:20.02 | kergoth | so which worked and which didnt? |
| 03:20.02 | Xent | the one that has working in it should be a couldn't |
| 03:20.15 | kergoth | .. |
| 03:20.19 | Xent | master didn't work as an ap |
| 03:20.26 | merlin262 | I love how people on slashdot just make fun of other peoples projects |
| 03:20.27 | kergoth | you need a user space daemon. |
| 03:20.27 | merlin262 | blehhhhhhh |
| 03:20.31 | Xent | adhoc worked fine |
| 03:20.34 | Xent | ah |
| 03:20.40 | kergoth | hostap isnt much use without its accompanying user space utils |
| 03:20.43 | kergoth | for Master anyway |
| 03:20.50 | kergoth | I havent bothered packaging that up spiffily |
| 03:20.53 | Xent | what do the user space utils do? |
| 03:21.05 | Xent | (apart from make it work ;P) |
| 03:21.05 | kergoth | go read up |
| 03:21.09 | kergoth | google for hostap |
| 03:26.35 | KeyserSoze | i still haven't figured out why libjpeg didn't crosscompile correctly, when i tried to do it seperately for picogui. i gave up on that, to try the OZ buildroot, which didn't work for me either. |
| 03:27.43 | KeyserSoze | it wouldn't read the CD's I burnt, I'm gonna try to do the upgrade over NFS this time. |
| 03:28.04 | KeyserSoze | i couldn't put them locally, the disk was full. |
| 03:28.44 | KeyserSoze | although, i could attach another SCSI disk, and put them on it. i guess that's the next thing to try, if it doesn't work over NFS. |
| 03:49.48 | Xent | ah... finished that homework... |
| 03:52.26 | Xent | apple-pears, the freaks of the fruit world... |
| 03:56.05 | *** join/#picogui kungfuftr (~kungfuftr@81-86-112-55.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 03:56.11 | kungfuftr | um... howdy |
| 03:56.28 | kungfuftr | seen trippy? |
| 03:57.35 | *** join/#picogui gonkey{iBook} (~brandon@h-69-3-123-122.DNVTCO56.covad.net) |
| 03:57.58 | kungfuftr | anyway, can anyone tell me where the current perl API for picogui is located? |
| 04:04.05 | KeyserSoze | kungfuftr: if you get picogui from CVS, cli_python should be there along with cli_c |
| 04:04.16 | *** join/#picogui laodamas (christop@bakr23-130.resnet.colorado.edu) |
| 04:04.20 | KeyserSoze | is was before, at any rate. |
| 04:04.33 | kungfuftr | yup... got thsoe, can't see anything for perl though |
| 04:05.00 | KeyserSoze | there's no cli_python directory at the same place as the cli_c directory? |
| 04:05.15 | kungfuftr | both top level of the tarball |
| 04:05.27 | KeyserSoze | oh, but it's empty? |
| 04:06.08 | kungfuftr | 2 secs |
| 04:07.22 | kungfuftr | well, unless i'm confused as to where needs should be... there's no cli_perl |
| 04:07.44 | KeyserSoze | oh, crap. i thought you said python :) |
| 04:07.55 | KeyserSoze | there is no cli_perl, AFAIK. |
| 04:08.02 | KeyserSoze | i only knew of a cli_python, and cli_c. |
| 04:08.57 | kungfuftr | apparently there is one for perl but it's not the best. If i can get pgserver running correctly i was thinking about having a bash at it. |
| 04:10.54 | KeyserSoze | well, I *know* there isn't a cli_bash. :D |
| 04:11.06 | kungfuftr | heh, me and my uk-isms |
| 04:13.00 | kungfuftr | PicoGUI lets you choose any language for client development. The C client library is most mature, though there's a new Python library that already works quite well. There is a Perl client library, but it needs a rewrite. |
| 04:13.04 | kungfuftr | as to quote |
| 04:14.06 | KeyserSoze | huh, news to me. |
| 04:14.15 | KeyserSoze | scanline's the one you need to talk to. |
| 04:15.25 | kungfuftr | ta |
| 04:15.48 | kungfuftr | now it's just a case of compiling pgserver over and over again until it runs... pah |
| 04:18.31 | *** join/#picogui laodamas (christop@bakr23-130.resnet.colorado.edu) |
| 04:24.19 | KeyserSoze | here's the instructions i followed: http://www.picogui.org/wiki/view/Main/BuildingAndConfiguring |
| 04:30.32 | *** join/#picogui ahnkana_ (~Gnu@aden2-135-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 04:32.21 | Xent | KeyserSoze: I just realized something... |
| 04:32.33 | KeyserSoze | what? |
| 04:32.37 | Xent | totally off topic about what you guys are talking about... related to what I'm reading for my leadership class |
| 04:33.06 | KeyserSoze | leadership class? that's funny. |
| 04:33.08 | Xent | right now it's talking about stereotypes and leadership... and how if the stereotypes conflict then people are hesitant to follow |
| 04:33.09 | *** join/#picogui scanline (~micah@aden2-42-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 04:33.16 | Xent | leadership in recreation... it's a PE course.. |
| 04:33.18 | Xent | anyway |
| 04:33.25 | Xent | the example they gave was teenagers and leaders |
| 04:33.48 | Xent | teenagers are perceived to be irresponsible, immature, unable to make sound decisions, and impatient |
| 04:34.08 | Xent | and leaders are expected to be very responsible, mature, patient, and able to make good decisions |
| 04:34.28 | Xent | I thought about it... and I was a teenage leader... even before I got my black belt... |
| 04:35.52 | Xent | just had to mention it to someone ;o) |
| 04:36.03 | KeyserSoze | okay :) |
| 04:36.31 | Xent | the point they were making is that people are hesitant to follow a teenager, because they feel that teenagers aren't good leaders |
| 04:37.00 | Xent | and I thought it was kinda cool that I fit that category.. and people wanted to follow me! |
| 04:37.02 | KeyserSoze | well, old people are dumb, no wonder they won't follow a teenager. |
| 04:37.14 | KeyserSoze | who followed you? younger kids? :D |
| 04:37.19 | Xent | not just younger kids |
| 04:37.22 | Xent | older people to |
| 04:37.42 | Xent | I used to teach groups of older people... as well as a couple of times I taught whole classes |
| 04:37.45 | Xent | plus there was grading |
| 04:37.54 | Xent | I used to grade people who were older than me all the time |
| 04:38.08 | Xent | I thought it was neat that they respected my input and listened as if I was an equal |
| 04:38.29 | Xent | (though a lot of it was younger kids ;o) ) |
| 04:43.36 | KeyserSoze | whew, my indigo2 wouldn't power on for a minute there. i thought it was dead. |
| 04:43.45 | KeyserSoze | it's going now, though. |
| 04:43.49 | Xent | did ya kick it? |
| 04:45.08 | KeyserSoze | nope, just tried the power button a half dozen times, checked all the power connections, and then hit the button again. |
| 04:45.19 | KeyserSoze | did you kick it? maybe that's why it didn't work at first? |
| 04:45.54 | Xent | no... |
| 04:46.02 | KeyserSoze | damn you and your unusually strong karate kick! you broke my indy! |
| 04:46.33 | Xent | hehehe |
| 04:47.05 | Xent | I'm thinking some bones... if I really had a good chance... |
| 04:48.51 | KeyserSoze | damnit. i had unistalled NFS on my indy (along with tons of other stuff) to make room for the tarball of the upgrade to 6.5.16. |
| 04:49.04 | Xent | KeyserSoze: ha ha |
| 04:49.08 | KeyserSoze | it didn't fit anyway, and now i want to try the upgrade over NFS, but i can't. |
| 04:50.12 | KeyserSoze | irix isn't as cool as i remember it being back in 1996. |
| 04:50.20 | Xent | hehehe |
| 04:50.24 | kungfuftr | fux0r |
| 04:51.18 | Xent | kungfuftr: whatx0r? |
| 04:51.25 | KeyserSoze | the damn thing won't tell me *what* i need to install first so i can install NFS, it just says i need to "open new distribution to resolve conflict" |
| 04:51.42 | kungfuftr | nah, pgserver is a bitch to compile (for me anyways) |
| 04:51.45 | KeyserSoze | i've got 20 fucking CDs, and it won't tell me which one. |
| 04:53.33 | Xent | KeyserSoze: hmmm... it's on cd 14 |
| 04:53.44 | KeyserSoze | is that a hint? |
| 04:53.50 | KeyserSoze | it doesn't narrow it down much |
| 04:53.51 | KeyserSoze | :) |
| 04:54.02 | Xent | why not? |
| 04:54.04 | KeyserSoze | oh, shit. i thought you said "it's not on cd 14" |
| 04:54.09 | Xent | hehehe |
| 04:54.13 | Xent | no no |
| 04:55.50 | kungfuftr | strcmp(0x080d4f3c, 0x080c9b88, 32, 0x400abb32, 0xbffffce8) = -6 |
| 04:55.50 | kungfuftr | --- SIGSEGV (Segmentation fault) --- |
| 04:55.50 | kungfuftr | XDestroyRegion(0, 0x080d57b8, 0x402737f8, 1, 1672 <unfinished ...> |
| 04:55.55 | kungfuftr | good old ltrace |
| 04:56.08 | kungfuftr | although i have no idea what that's in reference to |
| 04:56.23 | KeyserSoze | ibot: seen scanline? |
| 04:56.24 | | scanline is currently on #picogui (23m 15s) #elinux (23m 15s) #openembedded (23m 15s) #bzflag (23m 15s) |
| 04:56.29 | scanline | wazzup? |
| 04:56.39 | KeyserSoze | scanline: kungfuftr needs your help :) |
| 04:56.39 | kungfuftr | howdy |
| 04:56.39 | Xent | scanline: wb |
| 04:57.14 | kungfuftr | bah... judged even |
| 04:57.14 | scanline | mmkay.. |
| 04:57.48 | scanline | I'm installing windows 2000 inside VMware so I can do a Verilog design for an FPGA-based digital theremin with 256-LED spectrum analyzer |
| 04:57.59 | Xent | kungfuftr: don't bother going into religion right now... I'd say most of us in here are religioned out... |
| 04:58.00 | kungfuftr | okay, having trouble compiling pgserver under me debian box... ltrace shows the above segfault |
| 04:58.03 | scanline | while I tweak the hardware |
| 04:58.13 | Xent | scanline: that's a lot of points to solder ;) |
| 04:58.18 | kungfuftr | Xent-> heh, who said i was talking about religion |
| 04:58.26 | scanline | kungfuftr: a backtrace from gdb would be much more helpful |
| 04:58.34 | scanline | Xent: already did the soldering |
| 04:58.38 | kungfuftr | any specific options? |
| 04:58.48 | Xent | scanline: but still... 256 leds... damn... |
| 04:58.53 | scanline | kungfuftr: just run it like you were, inside gdb.. then get a backtrace |
| 04:59.15 | scanline | Xent: all surface mount :) |
| 04:59.46 | kungfuftr | bah... what's the command again... (within gdb) |
| 04:59.55 | scanline | they're on a small PCB, connected to a pretty big breadboard with 32 transistors, 48 resistors, and some other odds and ends |
| 04:59.58 | scanline | kungfuftr: bt |
| 05:00.03 | kungfuftr | ta |
| 05:00.07 | KeyserSoze | scanline: what's that for? |
| 05:00.12 | scanline | KeyserSoze: good question |
| 05:00.36 | KeyserSoze | so, it's not a part of a larger project? |
| 05:00.43 | scanline | KeyserSoze: this hardware was originally intended to be driven by a PIC microcontroller and built into a successor for Yoshi's case mod lights, but I never got the motivation to write firmware to control it |
| 05:00.59 | KeyserSoze | 256 leds? why don't you use an LCD? :) |
| 05:01.01 | scanline | KeyserSoze: decided an FPGA would be more fun... so I ripped off the PIC-related parts and plugged in an FPGA |
| 05:01.07 | scanline | KeyserSoze: LEDs are more fun :) |
| 05:01.17 | scanline | brighter, more colorful... |
| 05:01.40 | Xent | with 256 leds you could almost make pictures.. |
| 05:01.41 | scanline | this panel I'm using now is all green surface mount LEDs, but it could drive a cool one like I have in yoshi |
| 05:01.49 | KeyserSoze | are they arranged in a grid? will it display picogui apps? |
| 05:01.51 | scanline | and yoshi's panel is only 72 LEDs |
| 05:02.00 | scanline | KeyserSoze: yes, and probably not |
| 05:02.13 | Xent | kungfuftr: there were a couple... gonkulator, merlin262, KeyserSoze and I (though KeyserSoze and I were mostly just reading)... oh yeah... and Soopaman joined in later... |
| 05:02.14 | scanline | I don't know why you'd want to run picogui on a 16x16 pixel grid.. |
| 05:02.30 | KeyserSoze | you should cover your wall with LCDs. then write a driver for picogui to display to them. |
| 05:02.34 | scanline | the LEDs will be controlled by the FPGA |
| 05:02.34 | *** join/#picogui captain_pistachi (~jupiter@aden2-23-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 05:02.40 | KeyserSoze | s/lcd/led |
| 05:02.52 | scanline | so it could display a grayscale image from the built-in SRAM, or do a real-time spectrum analyzer... |
| 05:03.05 | Xent | KeyserSoze: hehehe... make a wall tetris game! |
| 05:03.06 | scanline | I want to try building a digital theremin in the FPGA |
| 05:03.13 | KeyserSoze | an led is what, 3mm? so you'd need a square, with about 600 leds on each side. |
| 05:03.14 | Xent | what's a theremin? |
| 05:03.19 | scanline | I think I can do it with only a capacitor and antenna external to the FPGA |
| 05:03.27 | KeyserSoze | better stick to monochrome, for the first try. |
| 05:03.40 | scanline | Xent: an electronic instrument.. you move your hand around near an antenna to play it |
| 05:03.49 | Xent | interesting... |
| 05:03.50 | kungfuftr | scanline-> um... #0 0x08073e84 in ?? () |
| 05:04.05 | scanline | kungfuftr: compile with debugging symbols on |
| 05:05.25 | scanline | Xent: it's based on the capacitance change between the antenna and ground as you move your hand around... I've seen digital theremins using oscillators made from schmitt trigger inverters |
| 05:06.00 | Xent | scanline: I understood the words oscillator and inverter in that last sentence ;o) |
| 05:06.47 | Xent | hehehe |
| 05:06.48 | KeyserSoze | i had to put in 8 more CDs, before i found the one that had whatever NFS needed. |
| 05:06.59 | kungfuftr | hhhrrrmmm... slightly odd |
| 05:07.01 | Xent | I understand the capacitance changes and stuff like that |
| 05:07.01 | kungfuftr | #0 0x080708d3 in ?? () |
| 05:07.01 | kungfuftr | #1 0x0808e57e in ?? () |
| 05:07.01 | kungfuftr | #2 0x080750a7 in ?? () |
| 05:07.01 | kungfuftr | #3 0x08074f43 in ?? () |
| 05:07.04 | kungfuftr | #4 0x0804ac05 in ?? () |
| 05:07.06 | kungfuftr | #5 0x0804adbe in ?? () |
| 05:07.09 | kungfuftr | #6 0x0804aab8 in ?? () |
| 05:07.11 | kungfuftr | #7 0x401790bf in __libc_start_main () from /lib/libc.so.6 |
| 05:07.12 | scanline | kungfuftr: heh... that's useless |
| 05:07.14 | KeyserSoze | then i had to click "do not installl XXX" 40 times, with about a 2 second pause between them, to *not* install the development stuff I don't want. |
| 05:07.21 | scanline | kungfuftr: you need to compile it with debug |
| 05:07.25 | Xent | but not the actual hardware... |
| 05:07.32 | kungfuftr | have done... that's the thing |
| 05:07.35 | Xent | KeyserSoze: it wasn't 14? |
| 05:07.40 | Xent | I guess I'm not lucky then... |
| 05:07.46 | scanline | kungfuftr: did you see it passing -g to gcc? |
| 05:08.03 | kungfuftr | bah... brb phone |
| 05:09.08 | Xent | scanline: questions about the red dwarf episodes you have... |
| 05:09.13 | scanline | hm? |
| 05:09.19 | Xent | I notice you're missing 4 of them.. any plans on downloading those ones? |
| 05:09.32 | kungfuftr | heh, red dwarf is great |
| 05:09.41 | scanline | Xent: no.... |
| 05:09.45 | Xent | kungfuftr: aren't you on the phone? |
| 05:09.54 | kungfuftr | yup... video phone |
| 05:09.55 | Xent | scanline: where did you get those ones? so that I may find the ones that you're missing ;o) |
| 05:10.04 | scanline | Xent: my roommate and captain_pistachi |
| 05:10.11 | Xent | ah |
| 05:10.25 | Xent | only need 4 more... hmmm... |
| 05:10.36 | KeyserSoze | hmmm. a grid of 3mm leds, that is 800x600, would be 6 feet by 8 feet. |
| 05:10.49 | scanline | hehe |
| 05:10.56 | KeyserSoze | it's nice how there'd be 100 leds in a foot. makes the math easier. |
| 05:10.58 | scanline | assuming monochrome? |
| 05:11.01 | Xent | KeyserSoze: I don't have any walls in my room that large... |
| 05:11.22 | scanline | oh boy, windows in a window... |
| 05:12.17 | Xent | scanline: never run vmware before? |
| 05:12.25 | kungfuftr | right... |
| 05:12.34 | kungfuftr | scanline-> yup... gcc passed -g |
| 05:12.36 | scanline | Xent: I've run it before, just not in a while |
| 05:12.40 | scanline | kungfuftr: funky |
| 05:13.13 | scanline | Xent: I had a disk image with win2k and all my FPGA stuff somewhere, but I can't find it.. so I just installed win2k on a blank disk image and I'm downloading Xilinx WebPack (tm) |
| 05:13.32 | *** join/#picogui dufflebunk (~dufflebun@d57-98-11.home.cgocable.net) |
| 05:13.37 | dufflebunk | Hello |
| 05:13.41 | scanline | hi |
| 05:14.03 | KeyserSoze | can LED's intensity be varied? or are they just on/off? |
| 05:14.08 | Xent | hehehe |
| 05:14.12 | Xent | KeyserSoze: varied |
| 05:14.18 | KeyserSoze | oh, good. |
| 05:14.22 | KeyserSoze | otherwise the display would suck |
| 05:14.39 | scanline | KeyserSoze: you can vary the current to vary the intensity, but that makes the control electronics much messier... you'll almost always just use PWM to vary the apparent brightness |
| 05:14.54 | KeyserSoze | PWM? |
| 05:14.59 | scanline | pulse width modulation |
| 05:15.04 | KeyserSoze | oh, okay. |
| 05:15.09 | scanline | you flash the LED very fast and change the duty cycle to change the brightness |
| 05:15.10 | kungfuftr | scanline-> what libc is neede for pgserver? |
| 05:15.17 | scanline | kungfuftr: one that works |
| 05:15.26 | dufflebunk | I was just reading the picogui site and was wonding (naively) why it would be hard to write a wrapper of sorts so that X programs could be displayed w/ picogui? |
| 05:15.27 | KeyserSoze | the hard thing to do would be get decent resolution on a wall sized screen, with a full color display. |
| 05:15.34 | scanline | dufflebunk: yes |
| 05:15.49 | KeyserSoze | plus, it might look like a bunch of red, green, and blue LEDs, instead of blending the colors. |
| 05:16.03 | scanline | dufflebunk: the easiest way to go about it would be to write a GGI interface for picogui, and run XGGI in it |
| 05:16.09 | kungfuftr | bleh... 2.2.5-14.3 |
| 05:16.10 | KeyserSoze | maybe little fiber-optic things would be needed to merge the output? |
| 05:16.31 | scanline | KeyserSoze: there are a lot of displays in Vegas that just use a red, green, and blue LED close to each other.. from far away it looks fine |
| 05:16.40 | KeyserSoze | how far? |
| 05:16.47 | scanline | KeyserSoze: they do sell single LEDs that have red, green, and blue chips in them, but they're expensive |
| 05:17.00 | KeyserSoze | i'd like it inside your dorm room, so it'd need to work from as little as 4-5' away. |
| 05:17.08 | scanline | KeyserSoze: hundred feet? these are the sort of things they put on the side of a building |
| 05:17.11 | dufflebunk | scanline: Oh... <feels breeze pass above his head> ok. Just an idle though. |
| 05:17.11 | scanline | ah |
| 05:17.26 | KeyserSoze | ah, you don't have enough room for one of those, you'll have to build a smaller one. |
| 05:17.43 | scanline | dufflebunk: it'd be possible, but it's probably more worthwhile to run picogui on top of X rather than the other way around, since there aren't yet any good video drivers that would work without X |
| 05:18.09 | KeyserSoze | you should put your therimone thingamajig on it, so it'd be like a light-bright that you don't touch, just get close to. |
| 05:18.17 | scanline | hehe |
| 05:18.53 | kungfuftr | oh right |
| 05:18.54 | kungfuftr | *** PicoGUI Oops! |
| 05:18.54 | kungfuftr | *** si_signo: 11 (0xb) |
| 05:18.54 | kungfuftr | *** si_errno: 0 |
| 05:18.54 | kungfuftr | *** si_code: 1 |
| 05:18.57 | kungfuftr | *** si_pid: 8 |
| 05:18.59 | kungfuftr | *** si_uid: 1075618808 |
| 05:19.02 | kungfuftr | *** si_status: 1 |
| 05:19.04 | kungfuftr | *** si_value: 1 |
| 05:19.07 | kungfuftr | *** si_int: 1 |
| 05:19.07 | scanline | kungfuftr: that's useless without debug symbols |
| 05:19.09 | kungfuftr | *** si_ptr: 0x1 |
| 05:19.12 | kungfuftr | *** si_addr: 0x8 |
| 05:19.15 | kungfuftr | *** si_band: 8 |
| 05:19.17 | kungfuftr | *** si_fd: 1075618808 |
| 05:19.19 | kungfuftr | useless again probably |
| 05:19.54 | kungfuftr | which debug symbols specifically would you be looking for? |
| 05:20.08 | scanline | kungfuftr: the same ones gdb would need to make a backgrace |
| 05:20.12 | scanline | err, backtrace |
| 05:20.12 | njs | scanline: heh; have you seen the minor meme that's been making the rounds, on using 802.11 cards to make a "theremin" |
| 05:20.21 | kungfuftr | ie? |
| 05:20.22 | scanline | njs: hehe, haven't seen that |
| 05:20.45 | KeyserSoze | i like how Irix's software manager calls what it does "automatic installation". if this is automatic, what on earth would manual installation be? |
| 05:20.50 | scanline | njs: maybe after I get a few hundred meg of tools installed I can see if I can make a theremin with a capacitor, some wire, and a little verilog code |
| 05:20.51 | kungfuftr | scanline-> for example? |
| 05:21.05 | scanline | kungfuftr: the ones that -g puts in |
| 05:21.14 | KeyserSoze | njs: do you have to cover your body with tinfoil for that to work? |
| 05:21.18 | njs | http://linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6597 , started at http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/2003-01-16.html |
| 05:22.23 | scanline | njs: haha, cute |
| 05:22.31 | KeyserSoze | the obvious response to a negative reply to my above question, which I cannot avoid making, is "oh. can i cover my body with tinfoil, anyway?" |
| 05:22.44 | njs | KeyserSoze: no |
| 05:23.17 | scanline | well, I suppose you could sit the laptop and base station somewhere stationary, and walk between them covered in grounded aluminum foil |
| 05:30.21 | kungfuftr | hhhmmm... it's failing when it reaches video drivers... if i try adding in video debugging it doesn't compile... |
| 05:34.13 | kungfuftr | seems to have something to do with function `div_rebuild' in memtheme.c (line 321) |
| 05:34.42 | scanline | kungfuftr: the ltrace showed it segfaulting after calling a function in Xlib |
| 05:34.56 | scanline | have you tried a different video driver, like sdlfb? |
| 05:36.30 | kungfuftr | yeah... brb... trying a few options |
| 05:40.06 | kungfuftr | oh... a flash of life just before it segfaulted |
| 05:40.47 | KeyserSoze | damn. linux has tcp/ip over packet-radio support. |
| 05:40.56 | KeyserSoze | linux kicks ass. |
| 05:42.14 | KeyserSoze | some guys i work with are putting up a radio telescope array (basically a bunch of satellite dishes, scattered around the city, all listening on the same frequency and combining their data) |
| 05:42.30 | KeyserSoze | one of them is a ham, and was telling me about packet radio. |
| 05:43.19 | KeyserSoze | packet radio is easy to use through a serial port, but with tcp/ip support in linux, you can just write a sockets program, and if the box is set up, the data will go accross packet radio, with no changes to the application. |
| 05:43.25 | kungfuftr | buggery |
| 05:53.07 | kungfuftr | slightly more successful |
| 05:55.25 | kungfuftr | nope... it seems for any video driver i try, it'll fail on initalisation |
| 05:55.50 | KeyserSoze | do you still get compile errors, that go away when you recompile? |
| 05:56.15 | *** part/#picogui dufflebunk (~dufflebun@d57-98-11.home.cgocable.net) |
| 05:56.50 | kungfuftr | the only compile error i get is if i try to include Video debugging |
| 06:04.53 | *** join/#picogui wt_ (foobar@24.33.21.148) |
| 06:04.58 | wt_ | anyone here? |
| 06:05.26 | *** part/#picogui wt_ (foobar@24.33.21.148) |
| 06:17.33 | KeyserSoze | man, i wish the designed or the irix software management system was here right now. |
| 06:17.40 | KeyserSoze | i'd put my foot so far up his ass... |
| 06:17.51 | KeyserSoze | well, i wouldn't really put it up his ass. i just kick his ass. |
| 06:18.08 | KeyserSoze | well, you know, metaphorically kick his ass. might be more punching than kicking, I suppose. |
| 06:19.56 | KeyserSoze | there'd be a fair bit of kicking, too. |
| 06:20.18 | kungfuftr | here goes nothing |
| 06:22.44 | kungfuftr | <--- happy man |
| 06:22.52 | KeyserSoze | it worked? |
| 06:22.53 | kungfuftr | the CVS version is running |
| 06:23.01 | KeyserSoze | how'd you do it? |
| 06:23.06 | kungfuftr | no idea! |
| 06:23.10 | kungfuftr | ^_^ |
| 06:23.11 | KeyserSoze | lol |
| 06:23.28 | kungfuftr | now to try and get it working under X |
| 06:25.40 | KeyserSoze | what did you get it working under, if not X? |
| 06:30.04 | *** join/#picogui kungfuft1 (~kungfuftr@81-86-112-55.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 06:30.25 | kungfuft1 | thank heavens for journalling fs |
| 06:30.40 | KeyserSoze | machine crashed? |
| 06:31.20 | kungfuftr | no, pgserver didn't exit properly and was still holding onto my keyboard in tty so anything i typed in was garbage |
| 06:31.49 | KeyserSoze | did you try "reset"? |
| 06:32.29 | kungfuftr | nah, thought it was a good oportunity to get some lilo appendings tested |
| 06:34.47 | kungfuftr | call me a fool but it needed done |
| 06:37.05 | SoopaKungPOW | :D |
| 06:37.10 | SoopaKungPOW | guess who's BAAAACL |
| 06:37.23 | SoopaKungPOW | s/K/L |
| 06:37.28 | SoopaKungPOW | if that works |
| 06:37.29 | SoopaKungPOW | :P |
| 06:37.49 | Xentac | SoopaKungPOW: you want the L first ;o) |
| 06:37.57 | SoopaKungPOW | oh |
| 06:37.59 | KeyserSoze | lol |
| 06:38.08 | SoopaKungPOW | heheh, who cares, i never liked algebra anyway :P |
| 06:38.15 | KeyserSoze | don't you need to end with another "/", too? |
| 06:38.27 | Xentac | KeyserSoze: don't have to, no |
| 06:38.52 | scanline | depends whether you're talking about perl or not ;) |
| 06:39.00 | Xentac | scanline: hehehe |
| 06:40.18 | kungfuftr | s:L$:K:; |
| 06:45.49 | KeyserSoze | who here knows Irix? |
| 06:46.13 | Xentac | KeyserSoze: no... but maybe you could hum a few bars... |
| 06:46.36 | KeyserSoze | I'll give an account on my Indigo2, and paypal money, to whoever can put 6.5.16 (or any recent version) on my Indigo. |
| 06:47.28 | SoopaKungPOW | indigo what is that? |
| 06:47.31 | KeyserSoze | I'll give an account on my Indigo2 to, and paypal money to, whoever can put 6.5.16 (or any recent version) on my Indigo. |
| 06:48.12 | KeyserSoze | SoopaKungPOW: an SGI Indigo2 is a machine that 10 years ago people lusted after, but now is a worthless piece of crap, that I recently paid $150 for, and cannot get working. |
| 06:49.02 | KeyserSoze | I have Irix 6.5.9 on it, and need at least 6.5.10, to be able to do something that I really wanted to do. I can't remember what that is anymore, but I'm still trying to get 6.5.10+ installed. |
| 06:49.37 | *** join/#picogui nemo (nemo@61.95.53.30) |
| 06:49.37 | KeyserSoze | i think it had something to do with SGI "freeware". That's a bunch of open source (mainly linux) apps that SGI compiles and makes available to owners of SGI hardware. |
| 06:50.03 | KeyserSoze | xchat didn't work, and i wanted to upgrade, but couldn't because my base OS was too old. |
| 06:50.30 | scanline | sounds like the problem we had with the gcc in SGI freeware |
| 06:50.42 | KeyserSoze | couldn't upgrade? |
| 06:50.52 | KeyserSoze | or didn't work? |
| 06:50.52 | scanline | the latest gcc depended on a header file our copy of IRIX didn't have, too old |
| 06:51.01 | scanline | so when we upgraded, it broke |
| 06:51.08 | captain_proton | scanline: hm, got a multimeter? |
| 06:51.16 | scanline | captain_proton: yep, lemme dig it out... |
| 06:51.36 | captain_proton | hehe |
| 06:51.58 | scanline | aha, here it is |
| 06:53.01 | kungfuftr | scanline-> any tips on getting cli_c & themetools compiled without install pgserver? (it works now *shrug* used CVS version instead) |
| 06:53.07 | captain_proton | scanline: you get to help me figure this out |
| 06:55.44 | KeyserSoze | the thing that sucks is I tend to accumulate little projects that I try to complete. I get some done (switching to linux, switching to gentoo, my OBD-II software, my picogui navigation software, putting netBSD on my Sun IPX and making it a router, building PCs, etc.), and am left with the ones that are broken (my SGI, building OZ, building picogui for my zaurus, my DEC multia that I want debian on) I then forget about any cool things I' |
| 06:55.45 | KeyserSoze | e previously and focus solely on the broken wreckage of half-completed projects, and wish for the sweet release of death. |
| 06:57.11 | KeyserSoze | i wonder if starting technically-oriented projects in my spare time is a fun hobby, or just a sick obsessive-compulsive behavior. |
| 07:01.22 | KeyserSoze | cool SGI Indigo2 link: http://futuretech.mirror.vuurwerk.net/pcw5-93i2.html |
| 07:01.35 | KeyserSoze | "If a computer could be the stuff of dreams, the Indigo2 is it." |
| 07:14.19 | scanline | kungfuftr: there's a --with-picogui or something option for ./configure |
| 07:15.38 | kungfuftr | yup... found it |
| 07:17.02 | KeyserSoze | scanline: can you use widget templates to make something like a gauge widget (a circular gauge, with a needle, that points at the number it is set to), or a plot widget, to plot data? |
| 07:19.09 | scanline | KeyserSoze: no, those are things you'd do either by writing a new widget or using the canvas widget |
| 07:19.56 | KeyserSoze | would a new widget require changes to pgserver? |
| 07:20.09 | scanline | yes |
| 07:20.43 | scanline | writing new widgets in the current design is hard... it will get easier in the new architecture, but that's still vaporware ;) |
| 07:21.47 | SoopaKungPOW | heheh |
| 07:21.51 | SoopaKungPOW | vaporware rules |
| 07:22.43 | KeyserSoze | are people supposed to write new widgets if they want to do something like make a display with multiple gauges? |
| 07:23.20 | scanline | no, you'd write a gauge widget and use it multiple times |
| 07:23.32 | scanline | or make a client-side "widget" using the canvas |
| 07:23.43 | KeyserSoze | that's what I meant and/or said. |
| 07:26.44 | captain_proton | indigo2s are NOT worthless pieces of crap |
| 07:27.04 | captain_proton | find a maximum impact graphics card for it (has to be an iMPACT) model and it'll run GL faster than a geforce 2 |
| 07:29.01 | KeyserSoze | captain_proton: i have a solid impact card right now. |
| 07:29.11 | KeyserSoze | why would i have to be local? |
| 07:29.18 | KeyserSoze | i'll let you SSH in... |
| 07:29.26 | captain_proton | because i don't want to go through the pain of setting up IRIX remote |
| 07:29.31 | KeyserSoze | the stuff i want is on NFS, and the NFS share is already mounted. |
| 07:30.27 | captain_proton | scanline: perhaps we could wirewrap a test 21150 board? |
| 07:30.31 | KeyserSoze | how would you go about upgrading from 6.5.9 to 6.5.16? i got the 6.5.16 maintenence release from SGI, and when I try to install it it gives me dozens of dependancy errors. |
| 07:30.51 | scanline | captain_proton: ha. 21150? |
| 07:31.12 | captain_proton | scanline: pci chip |
| 07:31.18 | scanline | actually, I should mess with my BIOS |
| 07:31.19 | scanline | ah, right |
| 07:31.30 | scanline | wirewrap... that's a good joke ;P |
| 07:31.33 | scanline | brb |
| 07:32.37 | SoopaSleep | aren't you a nice gui |
| 07:32.44 | KeyserSoze | i would have told her right away that she needed to turn the parallel port back on, but i wasn't home at the time. |
| 07:34.51 | KeyserSoze | kungfuftr: it still didn't build right? |
| 07:35.06 | kungfuftr | nah... still odd |
| 07:37.06 | kungfuftr | the wee bugger refuses to work |
| 07:39.48 | *** join/#picogui scanline (~micah@aden2-42-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 07:40.56 | KeyserSoze | scanline: are there any dependancies for building theme_tools, besides a prior "make install" of pgserver? |
| 07:42.20 | kungfuftr | scanline-> mind if i paste a quick something? |
| 07:42.21 | captain_proton | KeyserSoze: if there are dependency errors, you need to resolve them |
| 07:42.24 | captain_proton | thats what 'conflicts' is for |
| 07:42.33 | scanline | lex, yacc, automake, autoconf.. |
| 07:42.43 | scanline | kungfuftr: if it's long, /msg me with it |
| 07:42.50 | kungfuftr | Making all in thdump |
| 07:42.50 | kungfuftr | make[1]: Entering directory `/home/kungfuftr/picogui/picogui/themetools/thdump' |
| 07:42.50 | kungfuftr | make[1]: *** No rule to make target `../pgserver/include/picogui/constants.h', needed by `symtab.c'. Stop. |
| 07:42.53 | kungfuftr | make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/kungfuftr/picogui/picogui/themetools/thdump' |
| 07:42.55 | kungfuftr | make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 |
| 07:42.58 | kungfuftr | 07:41:28:rilian:~/picogui/picogui/themetools:-> ls ../pgserver/include/picogui/ |
| 07:43.01 | kungfuftr | canvas.h CVS Makefile.am network.h pgkeys.h types.h wt.h |
| 07:43.03 | kungfuftr | constants.h Makefile Makefile.in opengl.h theme.h version.h |
| 07:43.06 | kungfuftr | bugger |
| 07:43.33 | scanline | you just sent it to me and to the channel.. |
| 07:43.45 | kungfuftr | i know |
| 07:43.52 | scanline | mmkay |
| 07:44.21 | kungfuftr | annoying paste thing in irssi which i haven't setup properly on this machine just yet |
| 07:44.22 | scanline | that 'constants.h' is in the pgserver headers, you should be able to specify its location with a ./configure switch |
| 07:44.54 | kungfuftr | yup... already have with ./configure --with-pgserver=../pgserver |
| 07:45.05 | captain_proton | dan is actually using his laptop |
| 07:45.25 | scanline | does ../pgserver/include/picogui/constants.h exist? |
| 07:45.28 | scanline | captain_proton: scary |
| 07:45.46 | kungfuftr | scanline-> yup... that's what the 'ls' shows |
| 07:45.56 | KeyserSoze | captain_proton: why do any conflicts appear though? does it seem logical to you, that when i attempt to install a complete upgrade, i get conflicts? |
| 07:46.25 | captain_proton | KeyserSoze: its irix :P |
| 07:47.01 | KeyserSoze | scanline: what is the ".." supposed to be relative to? the location he was at when he invoked "make"? |
| 07:47.38 | kungfuftr | or the dir it changed into (ie: thdump) |
| 07:47.51 | scanline | it was probably written without relative paths in mind |
| 07:47.59 | scanline | try just giving it the absolute path |
| 07:48.04 | kungfuftr | k... ta |
| 07:48.33 | scanline | foo[:-1] |
| 07:48.44 | kungfuftr | yup... done |
| 07:49.01 | KeyserSoze | damnit. i can't think of what else to do except reinstall 6.5.9, before trying the upgrade again. that will take hours. |
| 07:49.15 | kungfuftr | oh... |
| 07:49.40 | captain_proton | yay for mouse recovery |
| 07:50.34 | KeyserSoze | captain_proton: did you ever burn CDs on a PC for use on an SGI? |
| 07:50.48 | captain_proton | i tried once :P |
| 07:51.01 | KeyserSoze | i tried 6 times, so I've got you beat. :D |
| 07:51.07 | captain_proton | hehe |
| 07:52.25 | KeyserSoze | um, it ought to be degree 3, if you are talking about a 3 dimensional sphere. |
| 07:52.34 | lurgyman | KeyserSoze: uh huh |
| 07:52.40 | lurgyman | it sure ought to |
| 07:53.22 | KeyserSoze | 4ish? |
| 07:53.32 | KeyserSoze | is this for Calc class? |
| 07:53.34 | lurgyman | if you ignored the arcsin |
| 07:53.38 | lurgyman | KeyserSoze: yep |
| 07:54.12 | lurgyman | silly vector calc |
| 07:54.24 | KeyserSoze | lol. transcendental functions are not needed to find the volume of a sphere. |
| 07:55.06 | ahnkana | ha! mission complete |
| 07:55.11 | ahnkana | PicoBot: ahnkana |
| 07:55.12 | PicoBot | it has been said that ahnkana is just some girl scanline knows from downstairs |
| 07:55.19 | ahnkana | there, better |
| 07:55.26 | lurgyman | KeyserSoze: they are when you have to reduce to a formula for the volume of a barrel to that of a sphere :( |
| 07:55.44 | captain_proton | some girl |
| 07:55.48 | lurgyman | actually, they still really weren't, when you did it my way... |
| 07:55.48 | captain_proton | flattering, that |
| 07:56.00 | ahnkana | it isn't meant to be. |
| 07:56.05 | scanline | hmm |
| 07:56.08 | scanline | PicoBot: scanline |
| 07:56.09 | ahnkana | but i am just some girl |
| 07:56.09 | PicoBot | scanline: sorry... |
| 07:56.17 | scanline | wow, I'm not in there |
| 07:56.21 | ahnkana | scanline knows me. |
| 07:56.27 | ahnkana | i live downstairs |
| 07:56.45 | ahnkana | ahnkana waves back |
| 07:56.48 | ahnkana | opps |
| 07:56.54 | lurgyman | ow |
| 07:57.16 | scanline | damn parallel port |
| 07:57.17 | ahnkana | lurgyman: how does waving at yourself hurt? |
| 07:58.54 | ahnkana | captain_proton: is this better? |
| 07:58.57 | ahnkana | PicoBot: ahnkana |
| 07:58.58 | PicoBot | you are, like, just some girl that scanline, captain_proton, and lurgyman know from downstairs |
| 07:59.11 | ahnkana | there...is that more accurate? lol |
| 07:59.25 | KeyserSoze | PicoBot: ahnkana? |
| 07:59.25 | PicoBot | i guess ahnkana is just some girl that scanline, captain_proton, and lurgyman know from downstairs. |
| 07:59.41 | KeyserSoze | cool, how'd it know to do "you" when you asked? |
| 08:00.06 | ahnkana | ask not me |
| 08:00.13 | scanline | ~sci-fi du jour |
| 08:00.14 | | It's some kind of hyper-charged pseudoelectron inversion field in 10-forward, ensign kirk |
| 08:00.41 | KeyserSoze | captain_proton: do you know what "enlightenDSM" and "telleffect" are? |
| 08:01.54 | kungfuftr | right, bed for me |
| 08:02.11 | captain_proton | KeyserSoze: nope |
| 08:02.16 | kungfuftr | nn, and thanks alot for your help guys... i'll be popping in again i'm sure |
| 08:02.24 | KeyserSoze | they don't sound very important, though. |
| 08:03.07 | lurgyman | bedtime in aden! |
| 08:03.20 | kungfuftr | bedtime in irealdn! |
| 08:03.36 | kungfuftr | ireland even |
| 08:03.38 | KeyserSoze | do you think they'll let me use a rate table at work, that is usually used with $30,000 inertial nav systems? |
| 08:04.13 | ahnkana | bedtime in lower aden as well |
| 08:04.28 | KeyserSoze | what is it by you guus, midnight? |
| 08:04.39 | kungfuftr | 8am here |
| 08:04.40 | kungfuftr | =0P |
| 08:04.41 | scanline | 1:04:40 |
| 08:05.21 | KeyserSoze | huh. i thought there was a 3 hour difference between me and colorado. it's 3:04 here |
| 08:05.34 | lurgyman | KeyserSoze: no, we're in Mountain Standard |
| 08:05.36 | lurgyman | not Pacific |
| 08:05.56 | captain_proton | and you're not in atlantic |
| 08:06.02 | lurgyman | that curious place between Central and Pacific where noone lives |
| 08:07.04 | KeyserSoze | i'm in Eastern. Mountain is only 2 from Easter? |
| 08:07.12 | lurgyman | yup |
| 08:07.24 | lurgyman | Pacific is 3 from Lent |
| 08:07.43 | KeyserSoze | damnit, Jeppesen in Colorado sent me an email, asking what my schedule was, for when I am available for a phone interview. i thought the time change was 3 hours. i hope i didn't sound too stupid. |
| 08:07.55 | lurgyman | oops |
| 08:09.08 | KeyserSoze | you guys know anything about Jeppesen, since they are near you? |
| 08:09.21 | KeyserSoze | know anyone that works there, or anything? |
| 08:09.24 | captain_proton | scanline: did you ever get the feeling that you were about to be struck by a piano? |
| 08:10.00 | scanline | captain_proton: every time I leave my cave |
| 08:10.00 | KeyserSoze | i guess it doesn't take much preparation on my part. |
| 08:10.49 | captain_proton | okay, bedtime |
| 08:10.51 | captain_proton | 'night all |
| 08:11.05 | lurgyman | 'night fred |
| 09:06.31 | *** join/#picogui scanline (~micah@aden2-42-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 09:06.31 | *** join/#picogui nemo (nemo@61.95.53.30) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:06.31 | *** join/#picogui ahn_sleep (~Gnu@aden2-135-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:06.31 | *** join/#picogui fraggle (~fraggle@tuneless.plus.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:06.31 | *** join/#picogui Dire|comatose (~Admin@100.8.33.65.cfl.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:06.31 | *** join/#picogui merlin262 (~Andrew@crtntx1-ar1-4-60-243-225.crtntx1.dsl-verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:06.31 | *** join/#picogui Xentac (~jchu@amga45cyy30x9.bc.hsia.telus.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:06.31 | *** join/#picogui lorelei (Admin@aden2-92-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:06.31 | *** join/#picogui gonk{work} (~Pineapple@ivan.client.mscd.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:06.31 | *** join/#picogui hikke (piste@drinking.olvi.cx) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:06.31 | *** join/#picogui kergoth (~kergoth@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 09:06.31 | *** join/#picogui njs (njs@12-232-144-227.client.attbi.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 09:06.31 | *** join/#picogui jojo (~jojo@infidyne.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:28.39 | *** join/#picogui lalo (~lalo@200.203.12.232) |
| 15:03.35 | Xentac | hmmm... file might not have power... |
| 15:07.51 | *** join/#picogui caffeine (~khedspet@216-187-196-82.dsl.btitelecom.net) |
| 15:55.48 | *** join/#picogui darth_iBook (~evanshee@stad235-182-dhcp.Colorado.EDU) |
| 16:05.11 | *** join/#picogui ahnkana (~Gnu@aden2-135-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 16:05.56 | Xentac | anyone here heard of esperanto? |
| 16:07.45 | captain_proton | uh, i've heard of it |
| 16:07.47 | captain_proton | can' |
| 16:07.57 | captain_proton | t say i've ever met an esperantan |
| 16:07.58 | captain_proton | =) |
| 16:08.02 | Xentac | hehehe |
| 16:08.17 | Xentac | I believe you call them esperantists ;o) |
| 16:10.00 | Xentac | they are nationality neutral... so there are no people "from" esperanto ;) |
| 16:10.58 | Xentac | ;) |
| 16:11.15 | captain_proton | bleh |
| 16:11.31 | captain_proton | there's no reason to learn esperanto |
| 16:11.49 | captain_proton | all you'll end up doing is becoming some raving lunatic spouting tripe about some "universal language" that nobody speaks |
| 16:11.53 | Xentac | there's no reason to learn latin either, and I took a year's worth of that too |
| 16:12.01 | darth_iBook | lol |
| 16:12.29 | Xentac | there's an online radio in esperanto: http://www.radio-esperanto.com/ |
| 16:12.35 | Xentac | plays esperanto music and everything... |
| 16:12.48 | captain_proton | how rediculous... |
| 16:12.51 | Xentac | google also has an esperanto search |
| 16:12.53 | *** join/#picogui lalo (~lalo@200.203.12.232) |
| 16:13.16 | captain_proton | Xentac: google has a l33t search too |
| 16:14.33 | darth_iBook | Mmmmmm... drag |
| 16:14.43 | captain_proton | yaay |
| 16:14.57 | captain_proton | hrm |
| 16:15.08 | captain_proton | answer me this ahnkana, darth_iBook, scanline and lurgyman |
| 16:15.10 | darth_iBook | A drag force is a militia formed anywhere in Florida |
| 16:15.18 | darth_iBook | ;) |
| 16:15.20 | captain_proton | why in the WORLD have we not gone to salvaggios a lot? |
| 16:15.40 | captain_proton | ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh |
| 16:16.05 | captain_proton | its the bestest deli around |
| 16:16.40 | darth_iBook | hmmmm, expensive? |
| 16:17.03 | captain_proton | not so much |
| 16:17.06 | darth_iBook | hmm |
| 16:17.13 | darth_iBook | when we be going? ;) |
| 16:19.33 | captain_proton | ohh man |
| 16:19.38 | captain_proton | calling it a sandwich is an insult =) |
| 16:20.04 | darth_iBook | ack! that good huh? |
| 16:20.15 | darth_iBook | what would be a more accurate term? |
| 16:20.22 | darth_iBook | uber-sandwich |
| 16:20.24 | darth_iBook | ? |
| 16:20.32 | captain_proton | mmmmmmmmm |
| 16:24.13 | Xentac | captain_proton: I forgot to mention that the second language of the red dwarf is esperanto (that's where I heard about it) |
| 16:24.56 | captain_proton | Xentac: thats just so they can make jokes about rimmer trying to learn it |
| 16:26.02 | Xentac | hehehe |
| 16:26.18 | Xentac | yeah, but in at least one of the episodes they speak it |
| 16:26.46 | captain_proton | uh, no |
| 16:26.59 | Xentac | in the episode Kryton |
| 16:28.16 | captain_proton | in any case, thats no reason to learn it |
| 16:29.34 | Xentac | some just lost on the radio because he didn't know the acronym LCD |
| 16:29.55 | captain_proton | little child daemons |
| 16:29.56 | captain_proton | :) |
| 16:30.01 | darth_iBook | heh |
| 16:30.28 | captain_proton | hm, i should probably get around to doing my OS class programming |
| 16:30.31 | darth_iBook | Liquid Crystal Display? |
| 16:33.38 | captain_proton | hey cool |
| 16:33.52 | captain_proton | importing the CS hosts file made it so i can access course pages as http://www/~person/ |
| 16:37.23 | Xentac | mwahahaha, the engineers hung a VW bug under one of the bridges again |
| 16:39.35 | captain_proton | egads |
| 16:39.47 | Xentac | they've done it a number of times... |
| 16:39.49 | captain_proton | this homework is worth 8% of our grade? its so furkin easy... :P |
| 16:40.12 | Xentac | ah, well then |
| 16:40.15 | Xentac | maybe I'll just go :P |
| 16:40.44 | captain_proton | <-- friendly |
| 16:43.26 | ahnkana | <---awake |
| 16:43.39 | ahnkana | sorta |
| 16:44.18 | darth_iBook | yay for massless pullies and strings |
| 16:44.27 | ahnkana | potatoes! |
| 16:44.37 | darth_iBook | lol |
| 16:44.47 | darth_iBook | sin(potato) = french fries |
| 16:44.51 | darth_iBook | Mmmmmmmm... french fries |
| 16:45.12 | ahnkana | darth_iBook: what is the temp outside? |
| 16:45.20 | darth_iBook | cold but not freezing |
| 16:45.35 | darth_iBook | nice jacket and a hat, possibly gloves, you'll be ok |
| 16:45.44 | ahnkana | i.e. no sandals unless you happen to be scanline |
| 16:45.50 | darth_iBook | correct |
| 16:45.56 | ahnkana | k |
| 16:48.06 | darth_iBook | so many arrows |
| 16:53.44 | gonk{work} | I was gone a long time... |
| 16:55.00 | gonk{work} | there is a good font |
| 16:55.25 | *** join/#picogui prpplague (~JoeBob1@12.148.134.9) |
| 16:55.32 | gonk{work} | hey prpplague |
| 16:56.03 | prpplague | howdy |
| 16:57.39 | gonk{work} | lurgyman: can't find the ones I gave you for sponge day |
| 16:58.59 | captain_proton | its actually quite pleasant outside |
| 17:00.31 | gonk{work} | captain_proton: I was noticing the same things |
| 17:00.38 | gonk{work} | the weather was plesant, but the people here aren't |
| 17:00.47 | gonk{work} | "WHY THE HELL ARE YOU WEARING SHORTS" they keep asking me... |
| 17:01.20 | lurgyman | because it's sunny and warm in hawaii, that's why |
| 17:01.26 | gonk{work} | hmm... |
| 17:01.38 | gonk{work} | lurgyman: normally the stuff you say doesn't make sense, but that takes the potato |
| 17:01.58 | captain_proton | white TUNA intervals |
| 17:02.18 | gonk{work} | ok |
| 17:07.19 | *** join/#picogui lalo_ (~lalo@200.203.12.232) |
| 17:20.11 | gonk{work} | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:20.20 | gonk{work} | the JimBones connected to the JimBones |
| 17:20.31 | gonk{work} | the JimBones connected to the JIMBones |
| 17:20.48 | JimBones | what a quality show that is... |
| 17:20.53 | gonk{work} | the JIMBones connected to the JIMBONES |
| 17:21.07 | gonk{work} | and thats the way it is |
| 17:21.32 | gonk{work} | though... JimBones is probably glad I can't |
| 17:22.22 | captain_proton | yay for tasty juice |
| 17:23.46 | gonk{work} | captain_proton: got any mangos? |
| 17:23.54 | captain_proton | gonk{work}: 'fraid not |
| 17:23.59 | gonk{work} | darn... |
| 17:24.03 | gonk{work} | captain_proton: get your mouse fixed? |
| 17:24.10 | gonk{work} | if not, I could eat it! |
| 17:24.16 | captain_proton | yeah actually |
| 17:24.19 | gonk{work} | oh |
| 17:24.27 | gonk{work} | what was wrong with it? |
| 17:25.09 | captain_proton | i'm still not sure - it won't work if the board is connected fully (two boards inside are connected on a stack of 5 pins), so i had to put a spacer inside for it to make good contact |
| 17:25.34 | gonk{work} | odd that |
| 17:27.39 | lurgyman | captain_proton has apparently decided to drag y'all to salvaggio's by the scruffs of your ears |
| 17:28.55 | gonk{work} | salvaggio? |
| 17:32.08 | lurgyman | no beans were harmed in the curding process |
| 17:58.19 | *** join/#picogui KeyserSoze (~ksoze@12-245-37-229.client.attbi.com) |
| 17:58.37 | gonk{work} | wb KeyserSoze |
| 18:04.49 | *** join/#picogui nemo_ (nemo@61.95.53.30) |
| 18:13.31 | gonk{work} | poke |
| 18:13.59 | verylongnicktose | poke |
| 18:14.13 | gonk{work{ | darn it.... |
| 18:18.00 | captain_proton | you sound really bored |
| 18:18.20 | lurgyman | look! i've turned into a frog! |
| 18:32.40 | gonk{work} | one of but two rap songs I like |
| 18:32.58 | lurgyman | along with omish paradise? |
| 18:33.04 | gonk{work} | how did you know? |
| 18:33.09 | lurgyman | lucky guess |
| 18:34.02 | captain_proton | ohmish paradise :) |
| 18:34.30 | KeyserSoze | bah, resistance is futile. |
| 18:35.13 | *** join/#picogui merlin{igen} (~amccall@crtntx1-ar1-4-60-243-225.crtntx1.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 18:35.28 | merlin{igen} | helllloooo nurse |
| 18:35.29 | merlin{igen} | =D |
| 18:35.45 | gonk{work} | hi merlin{igen} |
| 18:35.54 | merlin{igen} | well, I can see it's dead in here. :( |
| 18:36.15 | merlin{igen} | hey gonkey |
| 18:36.20 | gonk{work} | hi merlin{igen} |
| 18:36.23 | merlin{igen} | how's it going |
| 18:36.37 | merlin{igen} | hope I didn't piss you off yesterday. :) |
| 18:36.49 | gonk{work} | I don't get pissed off about things like that |
| 18:36.55 | merlin{igen} | oh, ok |
| 18:37.06 | merlin{igen} | it was a good conversation tho. |
| 18:37.13 | merlin{igen} | lotsa good points |
| 18:37.16 | gonk{work} | no, it was a pointless one |
| 18:37.25 | merlin{igen} | if you say so |
| 18:37.25 | merlin{igen} | lol |
| 18:37.49 | gonk{work} | it is worthless because as soon as we started talking, we lost our open minds and became more concerned with being right than exposing the truth |
| 18:37.57 | merlin{igen} | ah, yes |
| 18:38.14 | merlin{igen} | that's the problem with IRC conversations |
| 18:38.18 | gonk{work} | and at that point, it is argument for argument's sake |
| 18:38.24 | merlin{igen} | tr00 tr00 |
| 18:38.36 | gonk{work} | and it isn't limited to IRC conversations, I have had many face to face conversations go that way |
| 18:38.45 | merlin{igen} | I haven't really. |
| 18:38.54 | merlin{igen} | IRC is kindof limited... |
| 18:39.46 | captain_proton | see? merlin{igen} knows it |
| 18:39.59 | merlin{igen} | haha |
| 18:40.17 | merlin{igen} | welcome to my world. |
| 18:40.20 | merlin{igen} | confusion rules supreme |
| 18:41.02 | gonk{work} | just... insufficent information for proper brain parsing |
| 18:41.17 | merlin{igen} | ahhh.. brain parsing |
| 18:42.06 | scanline | Yay, I just love sleeping through comp org |
| 18:42.23 | gonk{work} | scanline: good morning |
| 18:42.26 | scanline | morning |
| 18:42.38 | merlin{igen} | scanline: sounds like me during all last semester |
| 18:42.40 | merlin{igen} | hehe |
| 18:42.40 | gonk{work} | scanline: not yet, soon |
| 18:42.50 | scanline | well, it's not long enough in the front for sure |
| 18:43.28 | merlin{igen} | comp. org == assembly programming course? |
| 18:43.35 | merlin{igen} | that's what it was at my school |
| 18:43.46 | scanline | seems like it |
| 18:43.58 | merlin{igen} | yep, I remember sleeping through that as well |
| 18:43.59 | merlin{igen} | lol |
| 18:44.18 | scanline | well, there's also the class web site... |
| 18:44.45 | scanline | as long as the homeworks, quizzes, and exams are all on the web site, who cares about lecture :) |
| 18:44.57 | merlin{igen} | lol |
| 18:45.10 | scanline | though I still have to go to class to turn them in |
| 18:45.22 | scanline | in numerical computation, everything's done via a mailing list |
| 18:46.51 | scanline | https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/lanparty/brandon_2001may18/Img07.jpg |
| 18:47.09 | scanline | that cheapo camera makes everyone look sunburned :) |
| 18:47.34 | scanline | https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/lanparty/brandon_2001may18/Img20.jpg <-- hey, there's Evan |
| 18:47.37 | lurgyman | ah! |
| 18:47.38 | lurgyman | eek |
| 18:48.10 | lurgyman | mrf |
| 18:48.15 | scanline | travis looks almost exactly the same |
| 18:48.19 | gonk{work} | yeah |
| 18:48.20 | scanline | https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/lanparty/brandon_2001may18/Img21.jpg |
| 18:48.26 | scanline | so does brandon, for that matter :) |
| 18:48.35 | captain_proton | scanline: hm, i don't feel like attending astrology today |
| 18:48.50 | scanline | captain_proton: me neither... was going to study for a theory quiz instead |
| 18:48.58 | lurgyman | hmm... hasn't there been a sex change or something? |
| 18:49.03 | lurgyman | oh, the one on the -right- |
| 18:49.09 | scanline | haha |
| 18:49.13 | scanline | the left person is Heather |
| 18:49.27 | lurgyman | another high school type person |
| 18:49.28 | lurgyman | ? |
| 18:49.31 | scanline | yep |
| 18:49.34 | lurgyman | ah |
| 18:49.46 | scanline | this lan party was right after high school graduation |
| 18:49.54 | lurgyman | t |
| 18:49.58 | gonk{work} | scanline: wrong year |
| 18:49.58 | ahnkana | k |
| 18:50.01 | scanline | oh? |
| 18:50.10 | scanline | may 2001 |
| 18:50.22 | scanline | wasn't that graduation? |
| 18:50.25 | gonk{work} | was this the _first_ LAN party? |
| 18:50.28 | scanline | yes |
| 18:50.38 | gonk{work} | oh, ok |
| 18:50.50 | scanline | this was before we had a digital camera, trev used a point-n-shoot 35mm and we scanned them |
| 18:50.58 | ahnkana | but isn't smart enough to know how to post it to the web |
| 18:51.09 | ahnkana | so she can show it to everyone |
| 18:51.10 | scanline | ahnkana: if you DCC it to me I'll put it on navi |
| 18:51.34 | scanline | https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/lanparty/brandon_2001may18/Img15.jpg <-- hey, it's trevor! |
| 18:51.47 | scanline | ahnkana: hahaha, this is cool. Matt showed it to me last night |
| 18:51.56 | ahnkana | i took pierre out |
| 18:52.06 | scanline | :) |
| 18:52.09 | gonk{work} | later captain_proton |
| 18:52.16 | ahnkana | cya captain_proton |
| 18:52.32 | lurgyman | hmm... something is wrong with this picture... |
| 18:52.34 | lurgyman | https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/lanparty/brandon_2001may18/Img21.jpg |
| 18:52.45 | lurgyman | this Heather character doesn't look stoned at -all- |
| 18:52.59 | gonk{work} | lurgyman: if you knew her, you wouldn't say that |
| 18:53.10 | lurgyman | that she doesn't look stoned? |
| 18:53.16 | scanline | https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/people/college/potter1.jpg |
| 18:53.26 | gonk{work} | erm... |
| 18:53.34 | lurgyman | ummmm |
| 18:53.37 | lurgyman | oh dear |
| 18:53.40 | gonk{work} | you wouldn't say that |
| 18:53.58 | lurgyman | because i would get a smack upside the head? |
| 18:54.08 | gonk{work} | with a pot, yes |
| 18:54.18 | scanline | https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/people/irc/scanline.jpeg <-- hey, another old picture of me |
| 18:54.30 | scanline | on a crappy webcam nonetheless |
| 18:55.06 | gonk{work} | ahnkana: great picture |
| 18:55.33 | ahnkana | bye lurgyman |
| 18:55.50 | ahnkana | heh |
| 18:55.54 | ahnkana | PicoBot: ahnkana |
| 18:55.54 | PicoBot | you are just some girl scanline knows from downstairs. she is also here: https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/people/college/potter1.jpg |
| 18:55.55 | scanline | there are some great pictures of people sleeping |
| 18:55.56 | gonk{work} | ahnkana: when did you do that? |
| 18:56.12 | ahnkana | just now |
| 18:56.15 | scanline | PicoBot: scanline is also at https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/lanparty/micah_2002july13/im000545.jpg |
| 18:56.15 | PicoBot | OK, scanline. |
| 18:56.18 | gonk{work} | PicoBot: ahnkana is also one of the niftiest people in aden |
| 18:56.19 | PicoBot | okay, gonk{work}. |
| 18:56.26 | ahnkana | hey! |
| 18:56.27 | gonk{work} | PicoBot: gonkulator |
| 18:56.27 | PicoBot | gonkulator is almost but not quite exactly the opposite of a cheese pizza or the slayer of noobs. or fun to throw snow at or nothing but a tickle-brained assload of jarring craptacular carpet droppings. or controlled from the ground by a radio or moron #4 or moron #5 |
| 18:56.34 | ahnkana | that's a positive opinion1!! |
| 18:56.52 | scanline | PicoBot: probe is also at https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/lanparty/zachevan_2001july1/Jul02004.JPG |
| 18:56.52 | PicoBot | okay, scanline. |
| 18:56.53 | gonk{work} | ahnkana: I have lots of positive opinions about lots of people |
| 18:57.08 | ahnkana | eh |
| 18:57.11 | scanline | PicoBot: jigga is also at https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/lanparty/zachevan_2001july1/Jul02028.JPG |
| 18:57.11 | PicoBot | okay, scanline. |
| 18:57.20 | gonk{work} | PicoBot: gonkulator is also http://picogui.org/people/gonkulator.jpeg |
| 18:57.21 | PicoBot | okay, gonk{work}. |
| 18:57.31 | gonk{work} | dak |
| 18:57.39 | gonk{work} | scanline: you have a picture of Zach |
| 18:57.41 | scanline | https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/lanparty/zachevan_2001july1/Jul02110.JPG |
| 18:57.42 | ahnkana | scanline, that is a great picture of you |
| 18:57.47 | scanline | hehe |
| 18:58.18 | gonk{work} | scanline: I hope it doesn't leave a mark on your disks |
| 18:58.31 | scanline | well, it was zach's party after all.. |
| 18:59.02 | scanline | grr.. the only picture of Jai I have is blurry and from the back |
| 18:59.07 | ahnkana | scanline, for gonkulator, you should also post the scary pic |
| 18:59.12 | gonk{work} | scanline: oh, was that one of Mark at Zach's house |
| 18:59.18 | gonk{work} | scary pic? |
| 18:59.23 | ahnkana | you saw it |
| 18:59.26 | scanline | ooh, this is a classic |
| 18:59.29 | scanline | https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/lanparty/zachevan_2001july1/Jul02111.JPG |
| 18:59.29 | ahnkana | you are green and have 3 eyes |
| 18:59.44 | gonk{work} | oh yeah |
| 18:59.51 | ahnkana | and there are two micahs |
| 19:00.02 | gonk{work} | scanline: these pictures aren't indicitave of Mark's mood 99.8% of the time... |
| 19:00.16 | scanline | true |
| 19:00.18 | scanline | but they're funny |
| 19:00.44 | scanline | https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/lanparty/micah_2002july13/im000484.jpg <-- hey, I had dualhead |
| 19:00.44 | gonk{work} | also true |
| 19:01.46 | ahnkana | if i knew how to play any of those games i'd coe |
| 19:01.52 | ahnkana | s/coe/come |
| 19:02.01 | ahnkana | gonk{work} angel spoke to me today |
| 19:02.04 | ahnkana | i think we are ok |
| 19:02.11 | scanline | https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/a-kon/im000419.jpg <-- I miss the old van |
| 19:02.17 | scanline | ahnkana: great! |
| 19:02.27 | gonk{work} | lorelei: are we ok? |
| 19:02.29 | ahnkana | i'm glad |
| 19:02.48 | ahnkana | methinks she isn't there |
| 19:05.30 | scanline | wow, these a-kon pictures show yoshi before the case mod |
| 19:06.02 | scanline | https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/a-kon/im000390.jpg <-- fan taped to the front :) |
| 19:06.40 | scanline | https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/a-kon/im000428.jpg |
| 19:11.35 | ahnkana | PicoBot: gonkulator |
| 19:11.36 | PicoBot | gonkulator is almost but not quite exactly the opposite of a cheese pizza or the slayer of noobs. or fun to throw snow at or nothing but a tickle-brained assload of jarring craptacular carpet droppings. or controlled from the ground by a radio or moron #4 or moron #5 or http://picogui.org/people/gonkulator.jpeg or https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/evil/st0ned.jpeg |
| 19:11.50 | ahnkana | i like the second one |
| 19:11.50 | ahnkana | hehe |
| 19:13.05 | ahnkana | the picture actually looks pretty good except the guy over your should who isn't micah |
| 19:13.23 | gonk{work} | thats my friend Chris Trott |
| 19:13.36 | ahnkana | his editing looks funny |
| 19:13.39 | gonk{work} | he is really annoying, but |
| 19:13.44 | gonk{work} | actually |
| 19:13.49 | gonk{work} | there is no but |
| 19:13.56 | gonk{work} | he is just really annoying |
| 19:20.23 | ahnkana | me too |
| 19:29.55 | gonk{work} | this channel died... |
| 19:30.58 | ahnkana | really? |
| 19:31.19 | ahnkana | well i think i fixed our fixing |
| 19:31.28 | ahnkana | chris still needs some work |
| 19:32.05 | gonk{work} | deletion works |
| 19:39.06 | ahnkana | na |
| 19:40.22 | ahnkana | at la |
| 19:40.24 | ahnkana | e |
| 19:40.34 | ahnkana | least now he looks interesting |
| 19:40.45 | ahnkana | lorelei: que? |
| 19:41.01 | ahnkana | or wait!!! |
| 19:41.03 | ahnkana | hehe |
| 19:42.40 | ahnkana | gonk{work}? |
| 19:42.45 | gonk{work} | ahnkana? |
| 19:42.55 | ahnkana | what do you think |
| 19:43.19 | scanline | haha |
| 19:43.35 | ahnkana | it's a great solution, don't you think? |
| 19:44.23 | gonk{work} | ahnkana: I don't see the difference in the one I have and the one you sent me? |
| 19:45.30 | ahnkana | chris' eye is different |
| 19:45.36 | ahnkana | look at his eyes |
| 19:45.59 | gonk{work} | ok |
| 19:46.04 | ahnkana | see it now? |
| 19:46.10 | ahnkana | very subtle change |
| 19:46.19 | ahnkana | but now he looks sleightly more rel |
| 19:46.25 | ahnkana | i'll show you later |
| 19:46.28 | ahnkana | i hve class |
| 19:46.33 | ahnkana | cya lata |
| 19:57.50 | *** join/#picogui gonkulator (~brandon@Metro0276.client.mscd.edu) |
| 19:58.30 | *** join/#picogui njs` (~njs@jalapeno.ICSI.Berkeley.EDU) |
| 19:58.45 | njs` | http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/knit/software.html is interesting |
| 20:00.48 | scanline | hmmm |
| 20:02.27 | *** join/#picogui ahnkana (~Gnu@aden2-135-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 20:03.02 | *** join/#picogui darth_iBook (~evanshee@ec237-31-dhcp.Colorado.EDU) |
| 20:12.45 | scanline | njs`: neat project, though looks like it only gives you the option of using the units at compile-time, rather than also at runtime |
| 20:13.11 | darth_iBook | scanline: do you use sdl at all? |
| 20:13.20 | scanline | darth_iBook: I've done a lot with SDL |
| 20:13.25 | scanline | some of the code in SDL has my name on it ;) |
| 20:13.33 | darth_iBook | is there a FillCircle() type command? |
| 20:13.38 | scanline | no |
| 20:13.46 | darth_iBook | didn't think so, just wanted to double check |
| 20:13.50 | scanline | SDL doesn't provide any primitives other than blits and rectangle fills |
| 20:14.04 | scanline | there are libraries on top of SDL you can use to do non-accelerated primitives |
| 20:14.17 | darth_iBook | what do you mean? |
| 20:14.37 | scanline | There are a bunch of libraries that are meant to be used with SDL- SDL_ttf, SDL_image... |
| 20:14.41 | scanline | there's a list of them at libsdl.org |
| 20:14.45 | darth_iBook | oh, ok |
| 20:14.54 | darth_iBook | and those work across platforms the way that SDL does? |
| 20:14.59 | scanline | yep |
| 20:15.18 | darth_iBook | oh, sweet |
| 20:21.11 | njs` | scanline: yeah |
| 20:23.49 | njs` | scanline: I'm not entirely convinced you'll be able to make that switch-off between local and distributed invocations work -- truly "transparent" distributed systems stuff has never worked before, and even if you're switching at compile time it seems like a lot of the code may still have to be written to not care either way, i.e. be written like code for a transparent distributed system. But maybe. |
| 20:48.51 | gonkulator | captain_proton: fascinating |
| 21:06.01 | gonkulator | got it |
| 21:14.08 | scanline | njs`: well, E gets pretty close it seems |
| 21:14.29 | scanline | njs`: the object model and network transparency for PicoGUI will borrow pretty heavily from Python and E |
| 21:17.02 | gonkulator | scanline: my professor reminds me quite a lot of Dan |
| 21:17.34 | scanline | which dan? |
| 21:17.42 | gonkulator | lurgyman: |
| 21:17.56 | scanline | ah |
| 21:17.58 | gonkulator | Keuster |
| 21:18.02 | gonkulator | or something like that |
| 21:18.19 | gonkulator | except he lectures on computer graphics |
| 21:18.25 | gonkulator | and he uses the word "bozo" all the time |
| 21:18.52 | scanline | njs`: isn't CORBA supposed to be transparent? :) |
| 21:18.59 | njs` | scanline: E doesn't aim for transparency, though -- I'm talking about the sort of distinction made at http://erights.org/elib/concurrency/semi-transparent.html |
| 21:19.10 | njs` | scanline: yes; this is problematic. |
| 21:20.39 | njs` | scanline: Fresco is probably about the best case as far as this issue goes, because we genuinely treat CORBA like a network protocol, not as a way to create pretend that everything is in a single process image. But it's still problematic. |
| 21:22.41 | njs` | scanline: and if you want to be able to write code that works in either case, but takes advantage of everything being local when everything is local... well, I'm not sure whether that can be done or not, yet. |
| 21:23.41 | scanline | well, the amount of granularity in your objects would be important.. much easier to make objects fully transparent if they have a very thin interface with each other |
| 21:24.34 | scanline | it would be fine to have the object kernel and layout server on different machines, but you couldn't put one node from the scene graph on a different machine |
| 21:24.49 | scanline | picogui's architecture would make that irrelevant, since you'd just add a new object that generates the nodes in question |
| 21:25.02 | njs` | scanline: are you familiar with the arguments about "how distributed objects are Different"? (just so I know what I can refer to in passing :-)) |
| 21:25.16 | scanline | nope |
| 21:25.44 | scanline | but I'd expect the main arguments would be latency and synchronization |
| 21:28.18 | njs` | scanline: latency is an issue, especially since it tends to strongly influence your design (since you have to jump through extra hoops to retain good performance). Synchronization is irritating, especially if distribution is the only source of parallelism in your design (i.e., you go from no parallelism to parallelism). Probably worse than either of these are trust issues and failure handling. |
| 21:29.23 | scanline | makes sense |
| 21:30.03 | njs` | Trust issues are partially alleviated by proper security (capabilities), but there's still all this nastiness with, say, distributed memory management, that you can largely sidestep if you know that you have control over all the code that's running. |
| 21:30.06 | scanline | njs`: I'd like the new design to optionally make use of threads, so that would add another layer of parallelism |
| 21:30.50 | scanline | still, it seems at least at this point that the new architecture will be simple enough that most of these problems will be easy to deal with |
| 21:31.00 | njs` | And failure handling is the main argument you'll see in the literature; basically, it's a huge, systemic change to your code if you can no longer trust function calls to actually happen :-) |
| 21:31.08 | scanline | basing everything on observers will help with synchronization |
| 21:32.20 | scanline | exceptions, including the destination module disconnecting, could just be propagated up the stack until the application can deal with them |
| 21:33.17 | gonkulator | njs`: sounds like philosophy |
| 21:33.52 | gonkulator | creating ideas based on the possibility that some idea under it might or might not be true |
| 21:34.23 | scanline | sounds more like boolean algebra to me :P |
| 21:34.28 | njs` | Oh, and another one -- splitting things like this exposes more of your internal interfaces, which can make refactoring, optimization, etc. harder (depending on how much you care about that). |
| 21:35.12 | scanline | that's just a matter of designing the boundary between modules correctly |
| 21:35.46 | njs` | Well, yes and no. You're unlikely to get it exactly perfect on your first try, after all :-) |
| 21:36.02 | scanline | yes, but the modules will have very little dependence between each other |
| 21:36.16 | scanline | the object kernel for example, doesn't need to know a thing about anything else in the system |
| 21:36.25 | njs` | (that link I pasted is a fairly decent overview of the same sort of things I'm talking about, incidentally) |
| 21:36.29 | scanline | the layout server only needs to know how to ask widgets for an abstract representation |
| 21:36.45 | *** join/#picogui proton-vizlab (~jupiter@aden2-23-dhcp.resnet.Colorado.EDU) |
| 21:36.45 | scanline | I'll read it later, I have a class with a quiz in 30 minutes :) |
| 21:36.59 | njs` | sure, but maybe you'll want to tweak your abstract representation at some point :-) |
| 21:37.09 | njs` | something to think about, anyway |
| 21:37.15 | njs` | nod. I should go eat lunch, myself. |
| 21:37.19 | scanline | dynamic typing saves the day! |
| 21:37.20 | scanline | :) |
| 21:37.25 | proton-vizlab | scanline: i grabbed a dead mobo in hopes we could scavenge the pci bridge and sockets off of it - the bridge is a pbga package though :P |
| 21:37.33 | scanline | ha |
| 21:37.44 | gonkulator | yay for proton-vizlab! |
| 21:38.06 | proton-vizlab | new hardware? |
| 21:38.21 | gonkulator | s/new hardware/dead mobo/ |
| 21:39.21 | proton-vizlab | scanline: we can at least pull off a socket for use in a prototype |
| 21:39.52 | scanline | well, we could rip off whatever the PCI bridge is connected to and wire up a PCI card to that |
| 21:40.12 | proton-vizlab | huh? |
| 21:42.18 | scanline | rip off the southbridge, hook a ribbon cable up to the right places, and that cable to a PCI plug |
| 21:42.26 | scanline | :) |
| 21:44.16 | gonkulator | whoa... external PCI port! |
| 21:44.28 | gonkulator | s/port/slot |
| 21:44.45 | proton-vizlab | gonkulator: thats (sortof) the idea |
| 21:45.50 | gonkulator | and I thought scanline's internal external 56k modem was cool |
| 22:04.28 | *** join/#picogui gonkey{iBook} (~brandon@plasma.client.mscd.edu) |
| 22:04.33 | gonkey{iBook} | stupid.... |
| 22:06.10 | proton-vizlab | ? |
| 22:06.36 | gonkey{iBook} | they killed my wireless |
| 22:06.47 | gonkey{iBook} | and I have to get back to class (which means unplugging) |
| 22:07.08 | gonkey{iBook} | later everyone |
| 22:22.15 | scanline | wow, that was easy |
| 22:22.24 | proton-vizlab | done already |
| 22:22.25 | proton-vizlab | ? |
| 22:22.28 | scanline | yeah |
| 22:22.33 | scanline | easy easy easy quiz |
| 22:22.37 | scanline | can't believe I was the first one done |
| 22:23.05 | scanline | it was open note, and the questions were almost exactly like the examples in the notes |
| 22:23.22 | proton-vizlab | scanline: we may not be able to rip off the southbridge - i'm not sure this motherboard -has- a southbridge |
| 22:23.39 | scanline | well, what's the PCI bridge connected to? a PCI controller chip of some kind? |
| 22:24.11 | proton-vizlab | i'm not even sure this is a pci bridge anymore |
| 22:24.22 | scanline | oh |
| 22:24.38 | ahnkana | PicoBot: gonkulator |
| 22:24.39 | PicoBot | gonkulator is probably almost but not quite exactly the opposite of a cheese pizza or the slayer of noobs. or fun to throw snow at or nothing but a tickle-brained assload of jarring craptacular carpet droppings. or controlled from the ground by a radio or moron #4 or moron #5 or http://picogui.org/people/gonkulator.jpeg or https://navi.picogui.org:3000/~micah/images/evil/st0ned.jpeg |
| 22:26.46 | scanline | ah |
| 22:27.36 | proton-vizlab | which makes things complicated |
| 22:28.00 | proton-vizlab | but we can at least scavenge for connectors |
| 22:28.07 | scanline | well, I think the best use for the board would be as a guinea pig for the board we build |
| 22:28.22 | scanline | it's more trouble than it's worth to desolder connectors that big |
| 22:28.50 | proton-vizlab | pci? not really...just get a little bit of wick and it'll come right off |
| 22:28.52 | scanline | and as for a wire-wrapped prototype, you'd still need a way to interface with the PCI bridge chip |
| 22:29.02 | scanline | proton-vizlab: are you kidding? |
| 22:29.24 | scanline | solder wick doesn't work nearly that well, there will always be a little solder stuck between the pin and the plating in the hole |
| 22:29.44 | scanline | so you'll have to get multiple pins hot at once, and pry it up slowly with a flatbladed screwdriver |
| 22:29.55 | scanline | it would work, but might also melt the socket... and definitely more trouble than it's worth |
| 22:30.31 | proton-vizlab | where else are we going to get a reliable connector to hook to a pci card? |
| 22:30.37 | scanline | digi-key |
| 22:31.04 | proton-vizlab | erp |
| 22:31.09 | scanline | about $2 each... might be able to find them cheaper elsewhere, as digi-key is a bit expensive for low quantities |
| 22:32.09 | scanline | you'll have to wait for a board to be fabbed anyway |
| 22:32.29 | proton-vizlab | not if we're doing a wirewrapped prototype |
| 22:32.41 | scanline | so how do you plan to use a TQFP chip in a wire-wrapped prototype? |
| 22:32.49 | proton-vizlab | socket |
| 22:32.56 | scanline | those are pretty expensive |
| 22:34.03 | scanline | small TQFP sockets are easily $200 or so.. and being such a big chip it would be even more expensive for one that would fit the PCI bridge |
| 22:34.25 | scanline | there are prototyping adaptors for TQFP chips, but those are also expensive |
| 22:34.35 | scanline | much cheaper just to go ahead and fab a board |
| 22:37.20 | proton-vizlab | harumph |
| 22:37.41 | scanline | I wire-wrapped the Kiwi, but for that I fabbed my own adaptor board |
| 22:38.07 | scanline | that was quite a headache.. would have been better to just fab the thing once and get it over with |
| 22:39.48 | proton-vizlab | okay, i give up on trying to get it to link |
| 22:39.49 | proton-vizlab | :P |
| 22:40.16 | scanline | heh |
| 22:40.26 | scanline | what's the latest problem? |
| 22:40.41 | proton-vizlab | GL, boost, db_cxx and pthread |
| 22:40.49 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:41.14 | proton-vizlab | or perhaps n64 |
| 22:41.33 | proton-vizlab | in any case, i'm coming back to aden |
| 22:41.37 | scanline | n64 would be worth a try |
| 22:41.43 | scanline | picogui should handle 64-bit machines |
| 22:41.45 | proton-vizlab | with this (i think) useless motherboard |
| 22:41.46 | proton-vizlab | :) |
| 22:45.38 | *** join/#picogui SoopaSleep (~soopaman@h24-66-55-163.wp.shawcable.net) |
| 22:46.27 | SoopaSleep | hola beeches |
| 22:53.58 | *** join/#picogui prae (~prae@sherpadown.net) |
| 23:13.58 | lurgyman | SoopaSleep: trees? |
| 23:14.06 | SoopaSleep | ? |
| 23:14.34 | lurgyman | beeches? |
| 23:15.07 | lurgyman | beech trees? |
| 23:15.15 | SoopaSleep | beeches = bitches |
| 23:15.17 | SoopaSleep | :P |
| 23:15.32 | lurgyman | ah |
| 23:16.21 | SoopaSleep | heheh |
| 23:20.50 | fraggle | yay!!!!!!!! |
| 23:25.14 | SoopaNAP | heheh |
| 23:25.17 | SoopaNAP | fraggle is solid |
| 23:25.23 | fraggle | ? |
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