| 00:32.29 | KeyserSoze | <Dregan> 3y3 4m l33t h4x0r |
| 00:32.29 | KeyserSoze | <Dregan> j0! 3y3 4m t4lking to j00! |
| 00:32.29 | KeyserSoze | <Dregan> fux0red 5cr1pt k1dd13. |
| 00:32.29 | KeyserSoze | <Dregan> -"l33t h41ku" |
| 00:50.28 | scanline | SHM!!! |
| 01:04.56 | KeyserSoze | <IceWizard> What the HELL is up with these candy companies? Little teeny bars are called 'Fun Size'.. Damn, Whats so fun about a smaller candybar?!? |
| 01:23.41 | scanline | oops |
| 01:25.26 | scan[pg] | wheee.... |
| 04:33.53 | file | bleh I've got work |
| 04:33.56 | file | er school |
| 08:05.47 | darth_tutor | morning all |
| 08:12.41 | darth_tutor | hi carpman |
| 08:12.48 | carpman | hey darth_tutor |
| 08:13.02 | carpman | David Gelernter (Yale Professor of Computer Science, and Unabomber target) has a story in the NY Times which states, (1) Operating systems are relics of the past, (2) We should be able to access data anytime/anywhere, by (3) seeing a stream of 3D documents(?), so (4) he's written such software, and (5) that's all you should care about so it doesn't matter that it runs under windows. This is a fantastic (definition: based on fantasy : not |
| 08:13.02 | carpman | ?)) vision of the future by a premier technologist. |
| 08:13.13 | carpman | This proves all my theories about computer scientists. |
| 08:13.38 | darth_tutor | carpman: what theories |
| 08:14.27 | carpman | darth_tutor: that people who label themseves computer scientists willingly, and buy into the philosophies taught in academia are totaly ignorant. |
| 08:14.36 | darth_tutor | ah |
| 08:14.41 | darth_tutor | good theory |
| 08:14.53 | darth_tutor | I'd say Prof. Gelemter is an excellent example |
| 08:15.00 | carpman | indeed |
| 08:28.21 | Xentac | carpman: I have to concur |
| 08:28.28 | kergoth | hey |
| 08:28.34 | Xentac | hey kergoth |
| 08:29.36 | Xentac | anyone running window maker on a debian box should upgrade... there wa a buffer overflow found today... |
| 08:30.06 | kergoth | windowmaker? man,i havent used that in years :) |
| 08:31.51 | Xentac | and more apache and apache-ssl fixes this week... |
| 08:32.12 | carpman | What most people don't realize about buffer overflows in non-network programs is that they can only be exploited if someone has a shell on your box that they can compile an app on. |
| 08:32.42 | Xentac | or if someone can get someone who does to do that... |
| 08:33.04 | carpman | yes, well the point is for just a desktop, the threat is minimal. |
| 08:33.23 | Xentac | point taken |
| 08:33.56 | Xentac | ooooooo... |
| 08:34.03 | Xentac | this is a buffer overflow with images... |
| 08:34.17 | Xentac | it allocates memory based on width and height, without a check |
| 08:34.46 | Xentac | so... joe linux user downloads the greatest WM theme since sliced bread |
| 08:34.53 | Xentac | and... there's your overflow ;o) |
| 08:59.10 | gonkulator{work} | Xentac: what are you talking about? |
| 09:00.11 | darth_tutor | hi gonkulator{work} |
| 09:00.18 | gonkulator{work} | hey darth_tutor |
| 09:00.54 | gonkulator{work} | hmm... |
| 09:00.59 | gonkulator{work} | I should get my iBook out |
| 09:27.43 | gonkulator | and now I ask... what fruits may come |
| 09:27.59 | gonkulator | Asking for apples, banannas come |
| 09:29.42 | gonkulator | Poked by a prizim, the light splits and fades |
| 09:29.49 | kergoth` | ? |
| 09:30.05 | gonkulator | nanometers slower cats and dogs spayed |
| 09:30.22 | gonkulator | kergoth: I am trying to unconfuse myself through crappy poetry |
| 09:30.30 | gonkulator | and I want Xentac to see |
| 09:30.31 | kergoth` | ah |
| 09:33.26 | gonkulator | the falling flower; I saw float back to the branch; was a butterfly; |
| 11:13.09 | carpman | brb |
| 11:13.30 | gonkulator | yay for server splits |
| 11:13.36 | gonkulator | PicoBot: seen scanline |
| 11:13.37 | PicoBot | scanline was last seen on #picogui 9 hours, 49 minutes and 58 seconds ago, saying: oops [Thu Nov 7 01:25:45 2002] |
| 11:14.06 | carpman | there, better |
| 11:14.13 | gonkulator | carpman: all fixed? |
| 11:14.17 | carpman | yeah |
| 11:14.21 | gonkulator | cool |
| 11:14.29 | gonkulator | carpman: what OS are you on right now? |
| 11:14.46 | carpman | gentoo linux |
| 11:14.51 | carpman | Its the only one I have :) |
| 11:15.04 | carpman | well, aside from OZ on my zaurus. |
| 11:15.09 | gonkulator | hmm... |
| 11:15.17 | gonkulator | do you have anything that will get streaming media? |
| 11:15.22 | carpman | what format? |
| 11:15.27 | gonkulator | quicktime |
| 11:15.31 | carpman | nope |
| 11:15.38 | gonkulator | http://ocelot.mscd.edu/~brandon/ |
| 11:16.05 | carpman | gonkulator: have you hooked up the O2 yet? |
| 11:16.21 | gonkulator | carpman: I have to get this server up and tested before I can play with the O2 |
| 11:16.26 | carpman | ah |
| 11:16.28 | gonkulator | but this is the LAST thing I have to do |
| 11:16.34 | gonkulator | I know it works internally |
| 11:17.29 | fragglet | an sgi o2? |
| 11:17.36 | carpman | indeed |
| 11:17.39 | fragglet | oooh |
| 11:17.47 | carpman | I know, sw33t is it not? |
| 11:17.52 | gonkulator | fragglet: it has been sitting over my desk |
| 11:17.54 | fragglet | pretty little blue plastic thing! |
| 11:17.57 | fragglet | gimme gimme gimme! |
| 11:18.03 | carpman | shiny mips!!!! |
| 11:18.20 | fragglet | heheh |
| 11:18.26 | gonkulator | yeah |
| 11:18.28 | gonkulator | it is cute too |
| 11:18.42 | fragglet | we have a room full of o2s at my university |
| 11:18.52 | carpman | Oh, I won't be getting that hardware raid controller, it's linux drivers are, as merlin262 would say, "teh suck" |
| 11:19.07 | carpman | So, I'll just take an adaptec 29160 instead >:) |
| 11:20.38 | gonkulator | fragglet: can you test my streaming media server? |
| 11:21.37 | fragglet | hmm |
| 11:21.39 | fragglet | maybe |
| 11:21.48 | carpman | I think this transaction logging in AoF will be the best solution. Syncs will happen when something changes, not on a timer. |
| 11:21.50 | gonkulator | fragglet: http://ocelot.mscd.edu/!brandon/ |
| 11:21.53 | gonkulator | er, ~ |
| 11:22.05 | gonkulator | http://ocelot.mscd.edu/~brandon/ |
| 11:22.56 | carpman | oh, wait. sasami still has os 9 on it |
| 11:23.17 | fragglet | hmm |
| 11:23.22 | fragglet | does xmms suppor it |
| 11:23.30 | carpman | fragglet: no, it be quicktime. |
| 11:23.41 | fragglet | gah |
| 11:27.08 | carpman | gonkulator: 404 not found from quicktime |
| 11:30.33 | gonkulator | crappers |
| 11:33.40 | Xentac[work] | so... I've been given a choice... |
| 11:33.55 | Xentac[work] | do I take rememberance day off (as a holiday) (nov 11) or boxing day? |
| 11:38.13 | gonkulator | PicoBot: seen carpman |
| 11:38.13 | PicoBot | carpman was last seen on #picogui 11 minutes and 5 seconds ago, saying: gonkulator: 404 not found from quicktime [Thu Nov 7 11:29:15 2002] |
| 11:38.21 | gonkulator | carpman: thanks for trying |
| 11:39.58 | Sophie | afternoon |
| 11:39.59 | gonkulator | Sophie: what OS are you on? |
| 11:40.02 | gonkulator | hi Sophie |
| 11:40.03 | gonkulator | :) |
| 11:40.07 | Sophie | redhat 8 |
| 11:40.14 | Sophie | hiya icky |
| 11:40.26 | Sophie | :P |
| 11:40.34 | gonkulator | darn |
| 11:40.39 | Sophie | why? |
| 11:40.45 | gonkulator | doesn't anyone run windows in here??? |
| 11:40.55 | kergoth` | on my work machine, yeah |
| 11:40.56 | Sophie | i run XP at home. |
| 11:41.09 | gonkulator | kergoth`: are you at work? |
| 11:41.20 | kergoth` | yep |
| 11:41.33 | gonkulator | do you have quick time installed? |
| 11:42.42 | kergoth` | noep |
| 11:42.43 | kergoth` | noep |
| 11:42.45 | kergoth` | nope |
| 11:42.46 | kergoth` | heh |
| 11:47.04 | Sophie | does picobot run a "seen" function? |
| 11:47.46 | fragglet | seenserv |
| 11:48.08 | Sophie | *baffled* |
| 11:48.25 | fragglet | /m seenserv seen blah |
| 11:48.46 | Sophie | ah |
| 11:50.05 | Sophie | gonkulator: do you run an ftp server? |
| 11:50.24 | gonkulator | Sophie: I do at work |
| 11:50.30 | Sophie | o |
| 11:50.36 | gonkulator | but it will be forever warez free |
| 11:50.50 | Sophie | I'm just looking for mp3s |
| 11:51.10 | gonkulator | yeah |
| 11:51.19 | gonkulator | I don't have any of those available at my work FTP |
| 11:55.56 | Sophie | what do you have on your work ftp server? |
| 11:56.01 | Sophie | I know it's not porn |
| 11:56.05 | gonkulator | right now, nothing |
| 11:56.11 | gonkulator | pretty soon, web sites |
| 11:56.11 | Sophie | and it's not warez or mp3s |
| 11:56.13 | Sophie | ph |
| 11:56.17 | Sophie | oh |
| 11:56.19 | gonkulator | work stuff |
| 11:56.31 | Sophie | *snooze* |
| 11:56.38 | gonkulator | uh huh |
| 12:06.58 | Sophie | dammit, my server always acts flakey behind the router |
| 12:08.32 | Sophie | It used to work fine, but Keyser made me go back behind the router |
| 12:08.48 | gonkulator | bastard... |
| 12:08.52 | Sophie | :) |
| 12:19.21 | gonkulator | Sophie: is he miles away? |
| 12:20.58 | Sophie | yep |
| 12:21.06 | scanline | morning everybody |
| 12:21.08 | KeyserSoze | nope |
| 12:21.14 | Sophie | maybe not multiple miles |
| 12:21.21 | Sophie | maybe just one :) |
| 12:21.39 | KeyserSoze | Keyser is Miles here. |
| 12:21.43 | gonkulator | hi scanline |
| 12:21.56 | Sophie | hey baby :) |
| 12:21.58 | KeyserSoze | [dr nick]Hey everybody![/dr nick] |
| 12:22.28 | gonkulator | later darth_balls |
| 12:23.07 | Sophie | I'm looking for a good Samba SWAT howto |
| 12:23.10 | Sophie | for a client |
| 12:24.01 | gonkulator | scanline: I just set up an OS X server machine this morning |
| 12:24.14 | scanline | neat |
| 12:24.43 | KeyserSoze | gonkulator: rackmount? |
| 12:24.54 | gonkulator | KeyserSoze: no, unfortunately |
| 12:24.58 | KeyserSoze | Sophie: isn't SWAT the web-based samba configuror? |
| 12:25.01 | gonkulator | just a rebuild of an older tower |
| 12:25.40 | gonkulator | scanline: are you running gentoo on Yoshi now? |
| 12:25.50 | Sophie | samba web admin tool, methinks |
| 12:26.21 | KeyserSoze | Sophie: have you used Swat? because it's not that hard. |
| 12:26.52 | Sophie | I haven't, no |
| 12:26.55 | Xentac[work] | so... do I take rememberance day off as a holiday (nov 11th, this weekend) or boxing day? |
| 12:26.56 | KeyserSoze | i mean, are they asking for a howto without trying to use it? |
| 12:27.08 | scanline | gonkulator: no |
| 12:27.12 | KeyserSoze | Xentac[work]: that depends. do you box? |
| 12:27.13 | Sophie | Joe asked me to find one, apparently the guy's not too bright |
| 12:27.23 | Sophie | which begs a couple questions :) |
| 12:27.25 | gonkulator | scanline: ok |
| 12:27.29 | Xentac[work] | KeyserSoze: :P not... not normally... I suppose I could try... |
| 12:27.54 | KeyserSoze | scanline: is yoshi your dual athlon machine, and if so, is it running again? |
| 12:28.07 | scanline | yes, and halfway |
| 12:28.11 | scanline | it's only running on one CPU |
| 12:28.47 | gonkulator | scanline: why only one CPU? |
| 12:29.05 | scanline | gonkulator: either one of my CPUs or my motherboard has something wrong with it |
| 12:29.53 | gonkulator | time to re-pencil? |
| 12:29.55 | Xentac[work] | Sophie: call it... ummm.. sophie! |
| 12:30.05 | Xentac[work] | gonkulator: bwahahaha |
| 12:30.07 | scanline | gonkulator: no, I already did that, that's not the problem |
| 12:30.16 | gonkulator | hmm... |
| 12:30.17 | Sophie | is your machine called "Xentac"? |
| 12:30.26 | gonkulator | time to buy Athlon MPs? |
| 12:30.27 | Xentac[work] | Sophie: no, it's aries |
| 12:30.38 | Xentac[work] | it used to be Xentac, but then I thought it was too.... ummm... incorrect |
| 12:31.31 | Xentac[work] | standard geek thing to do... |
| 12:31.31 | gonkulator | and calls the computer that |
| 12:31.46 | KeyserSoze | gonkulator: but what if Sophie can't think of a name? then what do you do? |
| 12:32.03 | gonkulator | KeyserSoze: I ask the next closes female |
| 12:32.06 | Xentac[work] | so... still no suggestions which day? |
| 12:32.26 | Xentac[work] | hehehe |
| 12:32.58 | gonkulator | rhyme? |
| 12:33.38 | Xentac[work] | that's it |
| 12:33.39 | KeyserSoze | smallblock names are nice, because they are two letters and a number, or a letter and two numbers. ie. ls1, ls6, lt5, lt4, l88, l98... |
| 12:34.00 | Sophie | I dreamt about numbers |
| 12:34.12 | KeyserSoze | and to most people they seem random, while to me, I identify aspects of each engine with the computer, so it's easy to remember. |
| 12:34.36 | Xentac[work] | KeyserSoze: yeah... same with the gods for me ;o) |
| 12:34.59 | Xentac[work] | aries - god of war... because my desktop gives me crap |
| 12:35.18 | Xentac[work] | hermes - messanger god... my laptop... cause it goes anywhere... |
| 12:35.21 | Sophie | athena is the goddess of battle, right? |
| 12:35.35 | Xentac[work] | athena - goddess of battle... slight, yet powerful... my zaurus |
| 12:35.39 | Xentac[work] | Sophie: I believe so |
| 12:35.52 | Xentac[work] | (gonky also suggested athena ;o) ) |
| 12:36.00 | KeyserSoze | if I ever get a pentium, i'll name it after a big-block truck engine. it'd have a large displacement (like high clock speed), but bad overall performance because the heads flow pporly (low IPC) |
| 12:36.12 | Xentac[work] | sorry, goddess of wisdom |
| 12:36.15 | Xentac[work] | my server is hades... |
| 12:36.30 | Xentac[work] | hehehe |
| 12:36.32 | gonkulator | KeyserSoze: ROFLMAO |
| 12:36.55 | Xentac[work] | goddess of wisdom and military victory |
| 12:37.43 | DevGirl | Xentac[work]: hades is a man... |
| 12:37.58 | KeyserSoze | DevGirl: someone was looking for you yesterday, and I told picobot to attract you, but you never showed up. |
| 12:38.09 | DevGirl | Xentac[work]: he'll kill you for disrespecting him! >:D |
| 12:38.15 | gonkulator | attract gonkulator worked |
| 12:38.20 | gonkulator | PicoBot: attract gonkulator |
| 12:38.22 | Xentac[work] | DevGirl: sorry... the goddess one was related to athena ;o) |
| 12:38.24 | gonkulator | see |
| 12:38.31 | Xentac[work] | hades is the god of the underworld... |
| 12:38.47 | DevGirl | KeyserSoze: I had already a BIG cucumber yesterday :) |
| 12:38.48 | KeyserSoze | Xentac[work] actually made sense, just not in a temporally ordered IRC thread kind of way. it was hard to follow |
| 12:38.52 | Xentac[work] | hades is also my server name |
| 12:39.08 | Xentac[work] | KeyserSoze: yeah... it's a thought pattern sort of way ;o) |
| 12:39.13 | Sophie | I want to name my PC after someone I look up to, but I also think it's a female PC |
| 12:39.17 | DevGirl | and Ares is the god of war |
| 12:39.31 | Xentac[work] | Sophie: Xent-ina ;o) |
| 12:39.41 | Sophie | and I don't really look up to any females. |
| 12:39.43 | Xentac[work] | DevGirl: aries... this is true... he's my desktop.. fights with me a lot ;o) |
| 12:39.51 | Xentac[work] | Sophie: call your machine Poe or Anylulu! |
| 12:40.22 | KeyserSoze | Sophie: name it after that slow-moving chick from Queen of The Damned. |
| 12:40.23 | DevGirl | Xentac[work]: whithout the i. Ares |
| 12:40.44 | Sophie | how 'bout leelu from fifth element |
| 12:41.01 | KeyserSoze | leelu is cool. |
| 12:41.31 | Xentac[work] | Sophie: good choice |
| 12:41.37 | Xentac[work] | "multi-pass" |
| 12:41.46 | KeyserSoze | Xentac[work]: aries is the astrological symbol, or the car. |
| 12:41.59 | Xentac[work] | alsa the god! |
| 12:42.02 | Xentac[work] | er, also |
| 12:42.02 | KeyserSoze | did leelu have a name in ResidentEvil? |
| 12:42.03 | Xentac[work] | hehehe |
| 12:42.17 | Sophie | she was badass in that movie. |
| 12:42.31 | KeyserSoze | because: thatChickWhoKickedAssInResidentEvil is too long to be a computer name |
| 12:42.33 | gonkulator | PicoBot: class |
| 12:42.34 | PicoBot | no, screw OOP |
| 12:42.36 | gonkulator | PicoBot: class |
| 12:42.36 | PicoBot | well, class is KABOOM! |
| 12:42.41 | gonkulator | w00t |
| 12:42.43 | gonkulator | PicoBot: right you are |
| 12:42.44 | PicoBot | OK, gonkulator. |
| 12:43.20 | KeyserSoze | see y'all later |
| 12:43.31 | Xentac[work] | ta ta KeyserSoze |
| 13:04.50 | Xentac[work] | oh dear god! it's file! |
| 13:05.40 | Xentac[work] | kergoth: good good |
| 13:07.09 | Xentac[work] | well then... shows how much you care... |
| 13:07.27 | Xentac[work] | they're called 490s... anyone ever heard of them? |
| 13:15.07 | gonkulator{work} | hi everybody |
| 13:16.46 | gonkulator{work} | carpman{tallest}: I just set up a 50 GB raid0 and attached it to the net |
| 13:17.46 | Sophie | Xentac.. when are you going to be DJing again? |
| 13:17.56 | carpman{tallest} | gonkulator{work}: hehehe, still no match for navi, tho :) |
| 13:18.11 | file | carpman{tallest}: good, good |
| 13:22.08 | scanline | hi carpman{tallest} |
| 13:22.48 | gonkulator | carpman{tallest}: I just have to get this server to stream some real media and I'll be set |
| 13:23.41 | Sophie | what's another mp3 player for linux? |
| 13:26.35 | gonkulator | mpg123 |
| 13:26.41 | gonkulator | Sophie: mp3blaster |
| 13:26.52 | Sophie | thanks gonkey. |
| 13:27.36 | kergoth | mp3blaster is spiffy |
| 13:27.50 | kergoth | especially when i dont feel like runnin X |
| 13:29.55 | kergoth | hehe |
| 13:30.16 | DevGirl | aha!!! Got you! :D |
| 13:33.57 | DevGirl | aha!!! Got you again! :D |
| 13:33.59 | DevGirl | heh |
| 13:35.07 | kergoth | DevGirl: you're good! |
| 13:35.09 | kergoth | :) |
| 13:35.45 | DevGirl | you're scary, but I'm not afraid :D |
| 13:37.06 | kergoth | hah |
| 13:37.54 | carpman{tallest} | 160 mb/s... ooooooooo yeah |
| 13:41.44 | carpman{tallest} | mmm, 4.17ms access time on this drive too |
| 13:44.05 | Soph_Bank | back soon. |
| 13:47.30 | DevGirl | wb, scan |
| 13:47.35 | scan[pg] | thanks DevGirl |
| 13:59.29 | scanline | http://picogui.org/sshotdetail.php?index=95 |
| 14:00.16 | carpman{tallest} | warning, nift overload, warning, nift overload. |
| 14:00.24 | carpman{tallest} | Nift shutdown... overriden. |
| 14:02.42 | scanline | haha |
| 14:03.16 | scanline | it could still use some tuning and debugging, but it's mostly working |
| 14:03.42 | scanline | I still haven't added support for proper toolbar apps, so PGL wont' run correctly in it |
| 14:03.58 | scanline | Figuring out how to do popup menus in X was kind of a pain... |
| 14:05.22 | carpman{tallest} | scanline: your too damn good :) |
| 14:05.31 | scanline | >:) |
| 14:17.28 | scanline | if it's so easy, where's the fun in it? |
| 14:17.59 | gonkulator | the fun is in watching my boss' amazement |
| 14:18.04 | gonkulator | you did that in 20 minutes!!!! |
| 14:18.10 | gonkulator | sort of thing |
| 14:18.13 | gonkulator | cause he coudn't do it at all |
| 14:18.49 | gonkulator | oh, and I did a DNS lookup to find out what the IP was supposed to be for my server (knowing the hostname) and he was shocked when I told him what the IP should be |
| 14:18.55 | gonkulator | "HOW THE HELL DID YOU KNOW THAT????" |
| 14:19.28 | carpman{tallest} | gonkulator: do the BOFH thing and lock him in a tape safe. |
| 14:19.44 | gonkulator{BOFH} | ok |
| 14:22.02 | gonkulator | yay for mobile computing |
| 14:22.37 | gonkulator | perfect signal in here.... |
| 14:22.43 | file[laptop] | where? |
| 14:22.51 | gonkulator | the office's bathroom |
| 14:22.53 | carpman{tallest} | gives new meaning to 'flush the cache' |
| 14:22.55 | file[laptop] | oh my |
| 14:22.56 | gonkulator | but is in here |
| 14:23.01 | file[laptop] | your scary |
| 14:23.10 | gonkulator | ok, and back to the office I go |
| 14:23.33 | carpman{tallest} | file[laptop]: try the wireless in your bathroom |
| 14:24.23 | file[laptop] | carpman{tallest}: been there done that |
| 14:24.42 | gonkulator | file: but did you talk to us while you went? |
| 14:24.47 | gonkulator{BOFH} | YEAH! |
| 14:24.51 | gonkulator{BOFH} | did you? |
| 14:24.52 | file[laptop] | heck no |
| 14:27.01 | carpman{tallest} | gonulator: you did that at a-kon, if I remember. |
| 14:28.36 | DevGirl | bah |
| 14:28.38 | DevGirl | :D |
| 14:28.46 | carpman{tallest} | DevGirl: Crotch! |
| 14:29.04 | DevGirl | i'm doing shitwork and *YOU* are in the bathroom :D |
| 14:29.14 | gonkulator | DevGirl: I am NOT anymore |
| 14:29.18 | DevGirl | :D |
| 14:29.24 | gonkulator | :p |
| 14:31.23 | carpman{tallest} | PicoBot: emulate kiki |
| 14:31.23 | PicoBot | sure, I will emulate in a... ooh, what is this? oooh, shiny! |
| 14:32.23 | DevGirl | PicoBot: attract me |
| 14:32.28 | DevGirl | wow! |
| 14:32.50 | DevGirl | you put a bigger cucumber to attract me? |
| 14:32.57 | DevGirl | I'm flattered ;) |
| 14:36.30 | carpman{tallest} | well, bbl |
| 14:36.53 | gonkulator | DevGirl: even mentioning that is obscene |
| 14:37.05 | DevGirl | :) |
| 14:40.23 | kergoth | PicoBot: be zippy |
| 14:40.24 | PicoBot | ... I don't like FRANK SINATRA or his CHILDREN. I don't understand the HUMOUR of the THREE STOOGES!! |
| 14:40.34 | DevGirl | hah |
| 14:40.58 | DevGirl | PicoBot: anime |
| 14:40.58 | PicoBot | ^.^ |
| 14:41.01 | DevGirl | :D |
| 14:41.06 | DevGirl | PicoBot: manga |
| 14:41.06 | PicoBot | DevGirl: huh? |
| 14:41.09 | DevGirl | heh |
| 14:42.18 | kergoth | ibot: lart PicoBot |
| 14:42.20 | kergoth | ;) |
| 14:48.36 | gonkulator | PicoBot: attract darth_balls |
| 14:48.36 | PicoBot | gonkulator: sorry... |
| 14:49.02 | gonkulator | PicoBot: attract darth_balls is <action> puts some mangos in his shirtr |
| 14:49.02 | PicoBot | OK, gonkulator. |
| 14:49.08 | gonkulator | PicoBot: forget attract darth_balls |
| 14:49.08 | PicoBot | gonkulator: I forgot attract darth_balls |
| 14:49.13 | gonkulator | PicoBot: attract darth_balls is <action> puts some mangos in his shirt |
| 14:49.14 | PicoBot | OK, gonkulator. |
| 14:49.22 | gonkulator | PicoBot: forget attract darth_balls |
| 14:49.22 | PicoBot | gonkulator: I forgot attract darth_balls |
| 14:49.32 | gonkulator | PicoBot: attract darth_balls is <action> puts some mangos in his (now her) shirt |
| 14:49.33 | PicoBot | OK, gonkulator. |
| 14:50.52 | kergoth | hah |
| 14:54.06 | DevGirl | heh |
| 14:54.10 | Sophie | where's Keyser |
| 14:54.19 | Sophie | ooooh Keyser.. |
| 14:54.25 | gonkulator{BOFH} | Sophie: better go find him |
| 14:54.32 | gonkulator{BOFH} | PicoBot: attract Sophie |
| 14:54.32 | PicoBot | gonkulator{BOFH}: sorry... |
| 14:54.38 | Sophie | lol |
| 14:54.49 | gonkulator{BOFH} | PicoBot: attract Sophie is <action> emulates Keyser |
| 14:54.49 | PicoBot | OK, gonkulator{BOFH}. |
| 14:55.04 | Sophie | cute. |
| 14:55.15 | gonkulator{BOFH} | PicoBot emulate Keyser |
| 14:55.15 | PicoBot | gonkulator{BOFH}: huh? |
| 14:55.20 | gonkulator{BOFH} | PicoBot emulate KeyserSoze |
| 14:55.20 | PicoBot | gonkulator{BOFH}: i'm not following you... |
| 14:55.23 | gonkulator{BOFH} | PicoBot emulate KeyserS |
| 14:55.24 | PicoBot | gonkulator{BOFH}: huh? |
| 14:55.27 | DevGirl | perfect :D |
| 14:55.34 | gonkulator{BOFH} | ROFLMAO |
| 14:55.42 | Sophie | PicoBot: attract Sophie |
| 14:55.42 | kergoth | lol |
| 14:55.46 | DevGirl | heh :D |
| 14:55.52 | Xentac[work] | so... they gave me a nickname at work now... |
| 14:56.01 | gonkulator | whats that? |
| 14:56.15 | Xentac[work] | "Shaggy" |
| 14:56.15 | Sophie | lucky boy. |
| 14:56.19 | kergoth | hah |
| 14:56.21 | Xentac[work] | like, from Scooby Doo |
| 14:56.28 | DevGirl | i have to ask you to don't make PicoBot attract me |
| 14:56.34 | DevGirl | i'm a married woman |
| 14:56.50 | gonkulator{BOFH} | Xentac[work]: have you started becoming a UI designer? |
| 14:56.51 | Sophie | and it's hard to resist PicoBot |
| 14:56.59 | DevGirl | can't have that urge to kiss PicoBot's cucumber when he tries to attract me :) |
| 14:57.06 | Xentac[work] | gonkulator{BOFH}: nope... not yet... |
| 14:57.13 | DevGirl | Sophie: also :D |
| 14:57.36 | gonkulator | Xentac: alright, cause shaggy smokes weed, and so do UI designers |
| 14:57.47 | kergoth | hah |
| 14:57.56 | DevGirl | hehehe |
| 14:57.57 | gonkulator | GOTTA MAKE IT MORE _UUUSABLE_ MAN |
| 14:59.34 | Xentac[work] | gonkulator{BOFH}: yeah, I know |
| 14:59.45 | Xentac[work] | I was called Shaggy because I look shaggy (hair, goatee) |
| 15:00.43 | Xentac[work] | it's not so much UI design... |
| 15:00.46 | kergoth | weed, i havent had that in many a year. all my suppliers moved away |
| 15:00.47 | Xentac[work] | it's usability... |
| 15:00.49 | kergoth | fuckers |
| 15:00.50 | Xentac[work] | SENG |
| 15:01.00 | Xentac[work] | software engineering |
| 15:01.03 | Xentac[work] | those are the weed smokers... |
| 15:01.03 | scanline | ahh |
| 15:01.36 | scanline | those are the people that make OSes and languages that look great on paper but don't do a bloody thing :) |
| 15:01.57 | kergoth | i hate those peple |
| 15:01.59 | Xentac[work] | hehehe |
| 15:02.02 | Xentac[work] | more or less, yeah |
| 15:02.13 | Xentac[work] | they try to make the user-computer interaction more natural |
| 15:02.14 | Xentac[work] | etc etc |
| 15:02.33 | fragglet | and there are some very ugly but useful languages |
| 15:02.34 | scanline | Damnit, if I wanted to drag little pieces of paper around, I wouldn't have used a computer! |
| 15:02.38 | fragglet | perl for example |
| 15:02.43 | fragglet | or brainfuck |
| 15:02.56 | scanline | fragglet: hehe, perl's the canonical example of ugly but useful :) |
| 15:04.34 | gonkulator | where does C fall in that? |
| 15:05.38 | Xentac[work] | not all that ugly and fairly useful...? |
| 15:06.38 | file | "Va Linux Systems, Linux without Limits" "SUCK IT!" "http://www.freebsd.org/" and "Powered by FreeBSD" |
| 15:06.40 | file | :) |
| 15:34.13 | carpman | file: BEHOLD the p0wer of SCSI! |
| 15:34.26 | kergoth | mmm scsi |
| 15:34.59 | carpman | kergoth: Adaptec 29160 and a 9gb Segate Baracuda |
| 15:35.09 | carpman | SCSI Ultra160 0wns. |
| 15:35.18 | kergoth | yehh |
| 15:35.37 | kergoth | currently i'm stuck on ultra fast. .. 40mb/s |
| 15:35.47 | kergoth | cause my multichannel caching raid controller is old as dirt |
| 15:36.04 | KeyserS | sourceforge kicks ass. or maybe, people who start their own little open source projects kick ass. or perhaps both. |
| 15:36.05 | carpman | hehe, my IDE disk is chugging allong, and the segate is doing almost nothing. |
| 15:36.43 | carpman | KeyserS: I'm working on it. That will be in AoF3's desktop system >:) |
| 15:36.57 | KeyserS | so i typed in "network clipboard" in google, and found a sourceforge homepage for a project |
| 15:38.58 | kergoth | carpman: scsi doesnt -look- super impressive on benchmarks for most people.. where it -really- shines is in real world multitasking operations |
| 15:39.01 | kergoth | just blows ide away |
| 15:39.02 | kergoth | i love it |
| 15:39.30 | carpman | well, in my case Ultra160 > UDMA100 anyway, nevermind that I run alot of apps at once. |
| 15:55.26 | file[laptop] | gonkulator{BOFH} |
| 15:55.27 | file[laptop] | ? |
| 16:02.50 | gonkulator{BOFH} | file[laptop] |
| 16:02.51 | gonkulator{BOFH} | ? |
| 16:03.13 | DevGirl | heh |
| 16:03.35 | file[laptop] | odd |
| 16:03.45 | file[laptop] | my proxy is refusing connections now |
| 16:04.04 | scanline | |
| 16:04.05 | file[laptop] | gonkulator{BOFH}: are there such a thing as kits I can buy to install a motherboard? (screws, etc) |
| 16:04.30 | DevGirl | |
| 16:06.24 | Xentac[work] | |
| 16:06.43 | DevGirl | |
| 16:06.50 | gonkulator{BOFH} | |
| 16:06.52 | kergoth | |
| 16:06.53 | DevGirl | |
| 16:06.54 | DevGirl | |
| 16:06.56 | DevGirl | |
| 16:06.57 | gonkulator{BOFH} | |
| 16:07.51 | Xentac[work] | DevGirl: good point |
| 16:08.08 | gonkulator{BOFH} | |
| 16:08.21 | DevGirl | |
| 16:08.34 | gonkulator{BOFH} | |
| 16:10.06 | gonkulator{BOFH} | |
| 16:10.16 | gonkulator{BOFH} | DevGirl: |
| 16:10.33 | DevGirl | yeah, true |
| 16:10.37 | DevGirl | gonkulator{BOFH}: |
| 16:10.42 | gonkulator{BOFH} | |
| 16:10.51 | gonkulator{BOFH} | Xentac[work]: |
| 16:10.59 | DevGirl | kergoth: |
| 16:11.39 | Xentac[work] | |
| 16:11.40 | Xentac[work] | |
| 16:11.45 | Xentac[work] | !!!!!! |
| 16:13.16 | scanline | is hungry! |
| 16:13.48 | DevGirl | ??? |
| 16:13.54 | scanline | :) |
| 16:14.00 | scanline | hi LoneTech |
| 16:14.03 | LoneTech | lo |
| 16:14.03 | file[laptop] | LoneTech! |
| 16:15.00 | file[laptop] | I'm staying home tomorrow - so you'll have to put up with me |
| 16:15.05 | file[laptop] | plus I get off Monday, so everybody beware |
| 16:17.06 | file[laptop] | Xentac[work]: NOOOOOOOOOO! |
| 16:17.44 | DevGirl | |
| 16:18.40 | gonkulator{BOFH} | |
| 16:19.03 | DevGirl | ??? |
| 16:19.24 | kergoth | DevGirl: . |
| 16:20.36 | DevGirl | kergoth: !!!! |
| 16:21.07 | file[laptop] | Xentac[work]: waddup? |
| 16:23.03 | DevGirl | ??? |
| 16:24.11 | Xentac[work] | sonofa! |
| 16:24.18 | Xentac[work] | silly typo |
| 16:24.51 | kergoth | Xentac[work]: your topic sucks |
| 16:24.57 | Xentac[work] | kergoth: shut it :P |
| 16:25.05 | Xentac[work] | scanline: do you store those somewhere? |
| 16:25.11 | DevGirl | hehe |
| 16:25.20 | scanline | Xentac[work]: scrollback buffer, cut&paste |
| 16:25.23 | scanline | :) |
| 16:25.24 | Xentac[work] | ah |
| 16:25.25 | DevGirl | was exactly what i was thinking |
| 16:25.34 | scanline | though ibot and picobot both log this channel |
| 16:29.16 | gonkulator{BOFH} | uh huh... likely story |
| 16:30.15 | DevGirl | :D |
| 16:30.55 | Xentac[work] | ok... |
| 16:30.59 | Xentac[work] | here's a thought for you... |
| 16:31.02 | gonkulator{BOFH} | nnnn |
| 16:31.13 | kergoth | hm, i dont need a thought |
| 16:31.16 | Xentac[work] | why are the F-keys seperate from the rest of the keys on the keyboard? |
| 16:31.16 | kergoth | could i have money instead? |
| 16:31.19 | kergoth | or beer? beer works |
| 16:31.21 | DevGirl | cucumbers are to be eaten, not kissed |
| 16:31.21 | kergoth | or women |
| 16:31.24 | Xentac[work] | what's the origin of that? |
| 16:31.34 | gonkulator{BOFH} | sgi |
| 16:31.36 | Xentac[work] | kergoth: I'd be up for any of those as well... but thought is all I have |
| 16:31.51 | Xentac[work] | didn't apple II's have F-keys? |
| 16:32.00 | Xentac[work] | I know they had silly mouse things... |
| 16:32.43 | kergoth | they were on the left |
| 16:32.49 | kergoth | on the old ibm keyboards at least |
| 16:33.37 | Xentac[work] | but why have they always been seperated? |
| 16:33.44 | Xentac[work] | someone... find out for me |
| 16:33.54 | Xentac[work] | DevGirl: geez... you have some sort of cucumber fetish? |
| 16:33.55 | Xentac[work] | ;o) |
| 16:34.06 | DevGirl | because they are nasty, like the f word :D |
| 16:34.16 | kergoth | f word isnt nasty |
| 16:34.19 | kergoth | its a wonderful versitile word |
| 16:34.21 | kergoth | :) |
| 16:34.21 | DevGirl | bah. |
| 16:34.25 | Xentac[work] | kergoth: bwahahaha |
| 16:34.34 | kergoth | DevGirl: you need to listen to that documentary on the word f*ck |
| 16:34.43 | DevGirl | :D |
| 16:34.52 | kergoth | Xentac[work]: yes |
| 16:34.54 | kergoth | Xentac[work]: precisely |
| 16:36.30 | DevGirl | You can do it, is all up to jou mmmmmmmmkay! |
| 16:37.47 | kergoth | ibot: fark |
| 16:37.47 | | [fark] see farq |
| 16:37.47 | Xentac[work] | "hey you, you mmmmmmmmkay-head!" |
| 16:37.49 | kergoth | ibot: farq |
| 16:37.49 | | I think you meant fuck. dont beat around the bush, man. |
| 16:38.07 | DevGirl | ibot: fuk |
| 16:38.07 | | DevGirl: bugger all, i dunno |
| 16:38.09 | DevGirl | ibot: fuck |
| 16:38.09 | | hmm... fuck is one of those words you should avoid in this channel |
| 16:38.14 | DevGirl | :D |
| 16:38.14 | Xentac[work] | "hey baby, wanna mmmmmkay?" |
| 16:38.31 | DevGirl | Xentac[work]: watch South park BLU |
| 16:38.34 | DevGirl | :D |
| 16:38.45 | kergoth | ibot: no, fuck is a wonderful, versitile word, that you should use as often as you can. |
| 16:38.45 | | okay, kergoth |
| 16:39.08 | darth_tutor | kergoth: listening to George Carlin? |
| 16:39.41 | darth_tutor | DevGirl: what are you singing? |
| 16:39.53 | scanline | you bunshole! |
| 16:40.30 | kergoth | bullpoo. |
| 16:40.54 | darth_tutor | gah! |
| 16:41.07 | kergoth | folven? |
| 16:41.07 | DevGirl | darth_tutor: see South park BLU |
| 16:41.13 | scanline | hehe |
| 16:41.19 | kergoth | south park rocks |
| 16:41.22 | darth_tutor | scanline and gonkulator{BOFH} know folven |
| 16:41.28 | kergoth | ah |
| 16:41.32 | DevGirl | kergoth: the movie rocks even more :D |
| 16:41.35 | darth_tutor | he was a math teacher at out HS who said mmmmmkay about every other word |
| 16:41.37 | kergoth | DevGirl: yes |
| 16:41.42 | kergoth | darth_tutor: hah |
| 16:41.47 | darth_tutor | dustin and bob started keeping track during math |
| 16:41.56 | darth_tutor | one time he said it like 27 times in a half hour |
| 16:42.01 | kergoth | haha |
| 16:42.06 | darth_tutor | it got so annoying |
| 16:42.18 | darth_tutor | he also 'taught' c++ |
| 16:42.21 | DevGirl | darth_balls: i did something like with a teacher who said "né?" |
| 16:42.24 | gonkulator{BOFH} | kergoth: this fucking isn't a laughing matter |
| 16:42.31 | scanline | kergoth: folven was also the teacher I had when I wrote a compiler for class, and I had to stay after and explain how it worked |
| 16:42.33 | DevGirl | and one who said "my friends" |
| 16:42.45 | darth_tutor | scanline: lol |
| 16:42.48 | kergoth | lol |
| 16:43.05 | darth_tutor | folven was the only teacher to occuse me of plagiarism |
| 16:43.14 | scanline | haha |
| 16:43.26 | kergoth | darth_tutor: so that means he's the only one who caught you right? |
| 16:43.27 | kergoth | :) |
| 16:43.33 | darth_tutor | ha! |
| 16:43.42 | darth_tutor | actually it was the other kid who copied my program |
| 16:43.52 | darth_tutor | but it took Folven forever to figure that one out, if he ever did |
| 16:43.55 | DevGirl | darth_balls: bullpoo! |
| 16:44.02 | kergoth | hah |
| 16:44.04 | scanline | CROTCH! |
| 16:44.10 | scanline | these benchmarks are still weird... |
| 16:44.15 | darth_tutor | cuz I could explain all the code and this kid had no idea why he'd written what was there |
| 16:44.33 | scanline | 79561 ns blit none 128x128 |
| 16:44.37 | scanline | 8955351 ns multiblit (1x1 tile) none 128x128 |
| 16:44.40 | scanline | 1289794 ns multiblit (32x32 tile) none 128x128 |
| 16:44.45 | scanline | strange... |
| 16:44.46 | kergoth | er |
| 16:44.49 | kergoth | thats pretty odd |
| 16:44.56 | gonkulator{BOFH} | folven is a fucking bastard |
| 16:45.02 | scanline | X's tiled pixmap performance sucks |
| 16:46.18 | scanline | what the... |
| 16:46.19 | scanline | 30804 ns pixel none 128x128 |
| 16:46.20 | scanline | 50 ns getpixel none 128x128 |
| 16:48.16 | Xentac[work] | PicoBot: folven? |
| 16:48.16 | PicoBot | xentac[work]: i don't know |
| 16:48.22 | Xentac[work] | PicoBot: folven is a fucking bastard |
| 16:48.22 | PicoBot | OK, Xentac[work]. |
| 17:01.03 | DevGirl | PicoBot: attract merlin262 |
| 17:01.20 | DevGirl | PicoBot emulate merlin262 |
| 17:01.20 | PicoBot | blehhhhhh |
| 17:01.25 | DevGirl | heh |
| 17:01.49 | scanline | hi merlin262 |
| 17:01.56 | DevGirl | hi, merlin262 |
| 17:13.41 | captain_proton | scanline: what do you know about handwriting recognition? |
| 17:25.41 | scanline | captain_proton: I don't know much about handwriting recognition, I know some about character recognition |
| 17:26.09 | scanline | character regognition (like graffiti or xmerlin) is a whole different bag of fish than handwriting recognition |
| 17:37.57 | darth_balls | anyone home? |
| 17:38.10 | file[laptop] | Affirmative. |
| 17:38.30 | darth_balls | can you dl skins for xmms? |
| 17:38.42 | scanline | sure |
| 17:38.47 | file[laptop] | Xentac[work]: waddup? |
| 17:38.53 | file[laptop] | stupid button... |
| 17:39.03 | scanline | darth_balls: http://www.xmms.org/skins.html |
| 17:39.16 | scanline | darth_balls: also, xmms and winamp skins are compatible with each other |
| 17:39.24 | darth_balls | that's what I was wondering |
| 17:39.26 | darth_balls | thanks scanline |
| 17:39.28 | darth_balls | <smooch> |
| 17:39.30 | scanline | np |
| 17:39.32 | darth_balls | ^_^ |
| 17:40.00 | file[laptop] | o.o |
| 17:40.30 | darth_balls | where do I put the skins when they're dl-ed? |
| 17:42.07 | file[laptop] | dear me it's early |
| 17:42.13 | file[laptop] | I thought it was about 2 hours from now... |
| 17:43.58 | darth_balls | scanline: where do the skins go so that xmms can see them? |
| 17:44.02 | scanline | :) |
| 17:44.47 | scanline | darth_balls: I think it's ~/.xmms/skins/, but check on that web page |
| 17:45.32 | darth_balls | sweet |
| 17:46.13 | DevGirl | yay! poke war! |
| 17:46.17 | darth_balls | DevGirl: is there anyway you can put shaolin soccer on navi for me? |
| 17:46.40 | DevGirl | darth_balls: think no, but i can try, dome day |
| 17:46.53 | darth_balls | I found it online, but it takes forever to dl |
| 17:47.00 | darth_balls | scanline: have you seen Rejected? |
| 17:47.06 | scanline | darth_balls: nope |
| 17:47.14 | darth_balls | I have it if you want |
| 17:47.18 | darth_balls | it's one of the funniest cartoons ever |
| 17:47.32 | darth_balls | AJ showed it to me |
| 17:47.43 | darth_balls | I finally got a copy last night, so I'm way excited |
| 17:47.52 | darth_balls | ack |
| 17:47.58 | scanline | hmm, neat |
| 17:48.27 | DevGirl | heh! |
| 17:48.35 | DevGirl | random pokes! |
| 17:48.37 | darth_balls | ack! |
| 17:49.05 | darth_balls | phew |
| 17:49.05 | DevGirl | hehe |
| 17:50.30 | captain_proton | eek |
| 17:50.30 | file[laptop] | hello kergoth |
| 17:50.38 | kergoth | hey |
| 17:56.10 | DevGirl | KeyserSoze: i'm not poking anyone with cucumbers! :D |
| 17:56.31 | DevGirl | but you gave me the idea! |
| 17:59.10 | KeyserSoze | who should own /mnt/cdrom? |
| 17:59.22 | KeyserSoze | root, with a group of cdrom? |
| 17:59.30 | KeyserSoze | or root, with a group of root? |
| 17:59.44 | kergoth | root:root generally |
| 18:00.07 | kergoth | unless you need to block read access to it from people outside the cdrom group, in which case root:cdrom, then chmod 750 |
| 18:00.11 | KeyserSoze | will xmms be able to play audio cd's then? |
| 18:00.24 | kergoth | no |
| 18:00.28 | kergoth | you dont mount audio cds |
| 18:00.34 | kergoth | it accesses the cdrom device directly |
| 18:00.55 | KeyserSoze | do you know how to play an audio cd in xmms? |
| 18:01.10 | kergoth | yeah, you install the audio cd plugin |
| 18:01.12 | kergoth | then you add files |
| 18:01.17 | kergoth | go to the cdrom mountpoint |
| 18:01.20 | kergoth | hit ok |
| 18:01.27 | kergoth | heh |
| 18:03.01 | KeyserSoze | kergoth: i can't seem to add /mnt/cdrom to my playlist as me, I can only do it as root. |
| 18:04.04 | kergoth | then check the perms on your cdrom device |
| 18:04.15 | KeyserSoze | the device, or the mount point? |
| 18:04.20 | kergoth | the device |
| 18:04.41 | kergoth | the 'add of the mnount point' behavior is just a xmms deal, it doesnt -actually- mount it, it just notices that you're trying to add its mountpoint, and accesses the device directly |
| 18:05.04 | KeyserSoze | /dev/cdrom and /dev/cdroms/cdrom0 both have lr-xr-xr-x |
| 18:05.10 | KeyserSoze | and root:root |
| 18:05.36 | kergoth | of course they do |
| 18:05.39 | kergoth | they're symlinks |
| 18:05.45 | kergoth | follow the links to the real device |
| 18:06.05 | Xentac | "follow the yellow symlinks!" |
| 18:06.34 | KeyserSoze | /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/cd has brw-rw-rw- |
| 18:08.44 | kergoth | KeyserSoze: and owner/group? |
| 18:08.51 | KeyserSoze | root:root |
| 18:09.03 | kergoth | bingo |
| 18:09.06 | kergoth | er |
| 18:09.07 | KeyserSoze | but why would that matter? it's rw- for all 3... |
| 18:09.09 | kergoth | other is rw? |
| 18:09.11 | kergoth | bah |
| 18:09.31 | KeyserSoze | i'm gonna add permissions to /mnt/cdrom... |
| 18:26.12 | merlin262 | kergoth is the Wiki working ok for you? |
| 18:26.32 | kergoth | merlin262: dunno, havent had time to go there :) |
| 18:26.53 | merlin262 | I'm the only person who's played w/ it so far... hehe. |
| 18:26.59 | merlin262 | I hope I setup everything right. |
| 18:31.46 | merlin262 | hi scanline |
| 18:31.49 | merlin262 | more screenshots? |
| 18:32.01 | scanline | yeah, there's a new one up |
| 18:32.09 | scanline | popups work, and in general the driver seems usable |
| 18:33.33 | merlin262 | YES |
| 18:33.35 | merlin262 | that looks awsome |
| 18:33.39 | scanline | :) |
| 18:33.44 | merlin262 | did you use the shm pixmaps? |
| 18:33.47 | scanline | yep |
| 18:34.01 | merlin262 | everythign fast and nfity? |
| 18:34.20 | scanline | it could still use some optimization, but it's relatively fast |
| 18:34.43 | scanline | as long as the server it's connected to supports SHM, there should be no reason for it to get awfully slow like it would before |
| 18:35.41 | scanline | there are still some window management issues.. for example, popup windows usually appear at random places it seems, whereas it would be better for them to be centered in the screen, or centered on the app that created them |
| 18:36.20 | scanline | it also still doesn't treat toolbar apps correctly.. as you can see in the screenshot, that menu test which is supposed to be a toolbar app just gets treated like a normal app |
| 18:36.57 | merlin262 | scanline: you need to do the WM hints |
| 18:37.05 | merlin262 | I can help w/ that though |
| 18:37.07 | scanline | cool |
| 18:37.16 | merlin262 | ...if i ever get some time. :( |
| 18:37.23 | scanline | I managed to get far enough into the ICCCM stuff that it responds to close events correctly |
| 18:37.33 | scanline | and I have the OverrideRedirect and grabbing for popups |
| 18:37.34 | scanline | but that's all |
| 18:37.52 | merlin262 | hmmm... just about enuff to do the filemanager |
| 18:38.27 | scanline | oh yeah.. I should probably test this X11 driver at 16bpp |
| 18:39.33 | merlin262 | hey, guru messages work right! |
| 18:39.37 | merlin262 | kewl. |
| 18:39.48 | scanline | yep, and you can even close the debug window :) |
| 18:41.20 | merlin262 | some fucus issues here and there |
| 18:41.25 | merlin262 | it's soo fast. |
| 18:41.42 | scanline | it's not doing a thing with X's focus right now, just using picogui's native focusing |
| 18:41.58 | merlin262 | ic |
| 18:42.22 | scanline | I was thinking about how to do toolbars... |
| 18:42.53 | scanline | you could make an override-redirect window that sticks to one edge of the screen, but that would get complicated when you have multiple toolbars, or you want the WM to know what's going on |
| 18:43.10 | scanline | it'd be interesting to know how the gnome panel handles it |
| 18:43.59 | scanline | another possibility is to create a window covering the root window, that would hold a background widget and toolbars. That would solve the toolbar problem and the root menu problem, but it wouldn't be the best thing for cooperating with whatever other X apps the user's running :) |
| 18:45.00 | scanline | ick... on my laptop, I get a bunch of X protocol errors, and no output :( |
| 18:45.11 | scanline | at least I made the protocol errors non-fatal |
| 18:45.33 | merlin262 | another possibility is to create a window covering the root window, that would hold a background widget and toolbars <--------------- how Gnome does Nautilus, etc... |
| 18:46.07 | scanline | figures |
| 18:46.13 | scanline | well, how about this: |
| 18:46.14 | file[laptop] | sleep? sleep! |
| 18:46.28 | scanline | by default, toolbars would be treated just like normal windows and there would be no root clicks |
| 18:46.43 | scanline | but there would be a config option you could set that would create that window covering the root |
| 18:47.06 | merlin262 | hmmm..... |
| 18:47.11 | scanline | There would also be advantages to using a picogui background widget instead of X's root window |
| 18:47.34 | merlin262 | with a window manager designed for pgserver, we could do lots of neat things. |
| 18:48.00 | scanline | in the panel app manager, toolbar apps are defined as toolbar widgets that are always stuck farther toward the edge of the screen than any app panels |
| 18:48.36 | scanline | the PGL toolbar, pqw, and pgboard are good examples of toolbar apps |
| 18:48.53 | scanline | if we need new application types, the app manager is extensible |
| 18:48.53 | merlin262 | i cant get pgl to compile |
| 18:49.01 | scanline | is res_c installed? |
| 18:51.01 | merlin262 | doh! |
| 18:51.06 | merlin262 | I thought res_c == cli_c |
| 18:51.34 | scanline | res_c is carpman's resource loader library |
| 18:51.56 | scanline | AFAIK pgl doesn't work in rootless yet |
| 18:52.53 | scanline | ah, never mind. it works, just not as a toolbar |
| 18:53.05 | scanline | the toolbar doesn't even show up until you start an app inside it |
| 18:53.13 | merlin262 | ehehe |
| 18:55.53 | scanline | merlin262: there's still some occasional funkiness with the automatic sizing |
| 18:56.06 | scanline | wb darth_balls |
| 18:56.07 | merlin262 | yea, I noticed that |
| 18:56.42 | darth_balls | hi scanline |
| 18:57.11 | scanline | merlin262: though it's not too bad for getting absolutely no sizing information from the apps :) Should be better once it's debugged and I improve the autosizing on the canvas and textbox widgets |
| 18:58.05 | merlin262 | really, for a desktop, there is so much potential her. |
| 18:58.09 | scanline | hehe |
| 18:58.11 | scanline | indeed |
| 18:58.59 | scanline | certainly a lot less graphics glitches than gtk apps |
| 18:59.20 | scanline | this x11 driver is approaching what seems to be the best you can do in X |
| 18:59.28 | merlin262 | hehe |
| 18:59.33 | merlin262 | really, it's extremely smooth |
| 18:59.39 | merlin262 | everything is... which really impresses me |
| 18:59.46 | merlin262 | i've yet to see X apps that could do smooth resizes. |
| 18:59.46 | scanline | what video card are you using? |
| 18:59.49 | merlin262 | g400 |
| 18:59.51 | scanline | ah |
| 19:00.05 | scanline | For me it still gets choppy when scrolling or resizing large windows |
| 19:00.22 | scanline | but that could be my drivers.. I have a GeForce 3 |
| 19:00.44 | merlin262 | it's a lot of video card memory to be pushing around on those sizes |
| 19:00.58 | merlin262 | most WM's will setup to do rubber band drawing after 640x480 or so |
| 19:01.07 | merlin262 | that's how Windows handles it anyway.... |
| 19:01.14 | scanline | ah |
| 19:01.14 | merlin262 | nothing is smooth there |
| 19:01.38 | scanline | actually, you should play with the double buffering and shm options |
| 19:02.05 | scanline | if you start pgserver with --video-x11.doublebuffer=0 it will turn off double-buffering on top level windows... on my system at least, this makes resizing a lot faster, but flickery |
| 19:03.04 | merlin262 | I like the idea that pgserver removes tha pplication side dependendcy on X |
| 19:03.09 | scanline | you can turn off SHM with --video-x11.shm=0. If you're not doing anything that's dog slow without SHM (alpha blending or antialiasing) it might be faster if your card is storing things in video memory |
| 19:03.16 | scanline | yep |
| 19:03.32 | merlin262 | hopefully my distro will have enuff compatible apps, that users can move to a DirectFB driver, get the speed improvements, and keep all functionality. |
| 19:03.56 | merlin262 | "PicoGUI Linux" |
| 19:03.58 | merlin262 | =P |
| 19:04.01 | scanline | hehe |
| 19:04.04 | merlin262 | blehhhh |
| 19:04.31 | darth_balls | anyone know when harry potter comes out? |
| 19:04.39 | DevGirl | soon :D |
| 19:04.42 | merlin262 | soon :D |
| 19:04.43 | DevGirl | really :) |
| 19:04.46 | merlin262 | =P |
| 19:04.52 | DevGirl | really really soon :D |
| 19:05.10 | merlin262 | lol |
| 19:05.46 | merlin262 | scanline: is there an html widget? |
| 19:05.52 | DevGirl | do you believe ppl here TRANSLATED some characters names??? |
| 19:05.54 | scanline | merlin262: I marked the Xft driver (EXPERIMENTAL) in the config menu... the freetype driver plus SHM works way better than it anyway, so I don't think there's any reason to finish it :) |
| 19:06.17 | scanline | merlin262: the textbox widget will do HTML, but I haven't fixed that since I rewrote the textbox |
| 19:06.33 | merlin262 | what would you think about a Gecko widget? |
| 19:06.49 | scanline | maybe doable |
| 19:06.59 | scanline | well hmm... |
| 19:07.01 | merlin262 | hmmmm..... |
| 19:07.15 | scanline | you'd want dlopen()'ed widget support in pgserver for that |
| 19:07.24 | merlin262 | that was my thinking too |
| 19:08.21 | merlin262 | so, did this rootless bit help you get some bugs out of pgserve? |
| 19:08.47 | scanline | didn't find as many bugs as I expected, but I did do a lot of restructuring and code cleanup :) |
| 19:09.16 | merlin262 | code cleanup is always good |
| 19:10.38 | scanline | alpha blending, double-buffering, and antialiasing.. all the essentials |
| 19:11.34 | merlin262 | hmmm.... |
| 19:11.41 | scanline | hmm indeed |
| 19:11.55 | scanline | IIRC gecko double-buffers all its rendering |
| 19:12.23 | merlin262 | overkill |
| 19:12.35 | merlin262 | double buffered pgserver -> double buffered gecko |
| 19:12.53 | merlin262 | s/gtk/gdk |
| 19:12.54 | scanline | hehe |
| 19:13.29 | merlin262 | sick, I know... i know.. |
| 19:13.37 | scanline | yeah |
| 19:14.32 | scanline | maybe the best way to get gecko in picogui is to make a way to embed X windows inside picogui widgets in a way that clients can control |
| 19:14.37 | merlin262 | the only project I've ever thought seriously about, but never started: |
| 19:14.43 | merlin262 | a port of OpenOffice to a native toolkit |
| 19:14.52 | scanline | eek |
| 19:15.17 | merlin262 | I generally get about as far as DL'ing the source code, looking at a few things, and then quitting while I'm ahead. |
| 19:16.00 | merlin262 | scanline: I am planning on porting gaim to picogui though |
| 19:16.16 | merlin262 | ...unless it's already been done.... |
| 19:16.34 | merlin262 | I was working with trying to get gaim going in my toolkit earlier. |
| 19:16.46 | scanline | merlin262: hmm.. I asked the gaim developers about that a while ago.. currently the code is still pretty heavily based on gtk. They're planning on separating backend and GUI but it's not done yet |
| 19:16.59 | scanline | jabber might be better |
| 19:17.05 | scanline | lalo already started a python jabber client for picogui |
| 19:17.10 | merlin262 | scanline: I wish you could see the concept shots I made for my desktop. :( |
| 19:17.18 | scanline | why can't I see them? |
| 19:17.19 | merlin262 | scanline: but sadly, the server they where on got nuked |
| 19:17.22 | scanline | ah |
| 19:17.25 | scanline | that sucks |
| 19:17.43 | merlin262 | my basic idea is to copy Amiga's work bench concept |
| 19:17.50 | scanline | didn't you say earlier that you had an idea for a theme? |
| 19:17.51 | merlin262 | but then to have an Applications bar |
| 19:18.17 | merlin262 | scanline: I know what I want in a desktop theme, but ahven't thought it through yet |
| 19:18.38 | scanline | got a general idea? |
| 19:19.20 | merlin262 | not quite yet, I'd like something new, unique, and business like |
| 19:19.20 | scanline | I want PGL to be flexible enough to handle whatever desktop paradigm you want :) |
| 19:19.20 | merlin262 | functional. |
| 19:19.20 | KeyserSoze | is the difference between a pgNewBitmapContext and a pgNewCanvasContext that I can open a bitmap image in a Bitmap context, and that I can draw (like with pgLine) in a canvas context? |
| 19:19.38 | scanline | KeyserSoze: you draw on both, just that a bitmap context draws on a bitmap and a canvas context draws on a canvas |
| 19:20.10 | KeyserSoze | what's the difference between a canvas and a bitmap? |
| 19:20.30 | scanline | a canvas is a widget, and a bitmap is just a bitmap :) |
| 19:20.44 | KeyserSoze | a bitmap isn't shown on the screen, then? |
| 19:20.46 | scanline | KeyserSoze: there are really three ways you're likely to draw things |
| 19:20.55 | scanline | 1. draw on a canvas in persistent mode |
| 19:21.18 | scanline | In this mode, you draw directly on the canvas, but the server stores everything you draw and can automatically redraw it when necessary |
| 19:21.54 | scanline | this is good for relatively simple drawings with little or no animation |
| 19:22.07 | scanline | 2. draw on the canvas in immediate mode |
| 19:22.31 | scanline | this is good for animation as the server doesn't store anything, but you have to redraw manually which can cause flicker when you resize |
| 19:22.45 | KeyserSoze | when exactly do you have to redraw? |
| 19:22.50 | scanline | 3. Draw in a bitmap, and draw that bitmap onto the canvas in persistent mode |
| 19:23.15 | scanline | this is good for complex drawings that you wouldn't want the server to have to redraw every time you resize the window |
| 19:23.39 | Xentac | hey... I wonder if I'm still away... |
| 19:23.45 | Xentac | oh, guess now |
| 19:23.48 | Xentac | er not |
| 19:24.07 | KeyserSoze | oh. if I use number 1, but have a bazillion calls to pgLine, to draw a complicated vector-based map, and the server decides to refresh the window, will it redo all the pgLines? |
| 19:24.29 | scanline | yes |
| 19:24.39 | scanline | this is for a map right? |
| 19:24.42 | KeyserSoze | yes. |
| 19:24.51 | scanline | i'd recommend drawing on a bitmap then |
| 19:24.57 | KeyserSoze | that does sound best. |
| 19:25.07 | scanline | will this be a scrolling map? |
| 19:25.14 | KeyserSoze | eventually :) |
| 19:25.36 | scanline | k |
| 19:28.27 | scanline | that'd be so cool |
| 19:29.04 | KeyserSoze | sounds like a lot of work |
| 19:29.32 | scanline | not really, the stuff gkrellm does is pretty simple, and PGL would handle all the modularity stuff for me |
| 19:29.58 | DevGirl | bye, boys |
| 19:30.05 | KeyserSoze | bye, DevGirl |
| 19:30.10 | scanline | bye DevGirl[out] |
| 19:33.39 | KeyserSoze | scanline: anything that goes on the screen is in a canvas, correct? and there are immediate and persistent canvasses? |
| 19:33.58 | KeyserSoze | and i can draw (like with pgLine) to either a canvas, or to a bitmap? |
| 19:34.13 | scanline | KeyserSoze: a canvas is just a widget, like a button or a toolbar. There's only one type of canvas, but you can draw on it in different modes |
| 19:35.39 | KeyserSoze | do i need a canvasContext, to draw on a canvas widget? |
| 19:35.56 | scanline | KeyserSoze: to use the pgLine and other PGFX functions, yes |
| 19:36.36 | KeyserSoze | and i need a bitmap context, to draw PGFX to a bitmap? |
| 19:36.47 | scanline | yes |
| 19:37.12 | KeyserSoze | is a bitmap a widget? |
| 19:37.17 | scanline | no |
| 19:42.38 | KeyserSoze | does this section of code make sense? |
| 19:42.38 | KeyserSoze | gcMain = pgNewCanvasContext(wMainCanvas,PGFX_PERSISTENT); |
| 19:42.38 | KeyserSoze | pgBitmap(gcMain,0,0,mi.lxres,mi.lyres,bScribbleBitmap); |
| 19:42.38 | KeyserSoze | pgDeleteContext(gcMain); |
| 19:42.56 | scanline | sure |
| 19:43.11 | scanline | I assume bScribbleBitmap was created with pgCreateBitmap? |
| 19:43.47 | file[laptop] | hey all |
| 19:44.18 | KeyserSoze | scanline: yes, it was. |
| 19:45.03 | file[laptop] | since I'm staying home tomorrow I think I'll stay up a bit longer |
| 19:45.31 | KeyserSoze | scanline: why isn't pgBitmap in pgui-protocol.html? |
| 19:46.16 | scanline | KeyserSoze: all the PGFX stuff (pgBitmap, pgLine, pgNewCanvasContext) is just a cli_c-ism |
| 19:46.33 | scanline | KeyserSoze: bitmap contexts are a frontend for pgRender, and canvas contexts are a frontend to pgWriteCmd |
| 19:46.33 | KeyserSoze | oh. |
| 19:46.51 | scanline | it's confusing the way it's implemented now, it's on the list of things to redesign for cli_c2 |
| 19:47.18 | scanline | KeyserSoze: there are doxygen docs online for cli_c though, and that should have PGFX functions in it |
| 19:47.28 | KeyserSoze | yeah, i'm reading it now |
| 19:49.43 | file[laptop] | scanline: good luck |
| 19:52.03 | KeyserSoze | scanline: can you explain what those 3 lines of code I wrote up above do? |
| 19:53.03 | scanline | KeyserSoze: hehe.. the first line makes a context that can be used to draw in your canvas such that the server stores everything you draw. The second line gives it a command to draw your bitmap in the canvas, the third line frees the context (but doesn't effect the command you sent) |
| 19:54.19 | KeyserSoze | so, DeleteContext is just throwing away a handle to something that the server still keeps? |
| 19:55.05 | scanline | yes. There's actually no server-side equivalent to that context, it's just a way of representing a set of drawing commands in cli_c |
| 19:55.43 | merlin262 | scanline: how do you get the memory usage panel to come up? |
| 19:55.50 | scanline | CTRL-ALT-M |
| 19:56.11 | KeyserSoze | now, does pgBitmap copy over the contents of the bitmap, or give the server a pointer to the clients bitmap? |
| 19:56.28 | merlin262 | 1049 gropnodes? |
| 19:56.52 | file[laptop] | "Just got back from the Microsoft Tablet PC launch event here in Seattle. Aside from a couple of application lock-ups during the demonstration (they claimed internet access was down at the demo center and was causing the difficulties), |
| 19:56.53 | merlin262 | 107 widgets.... |
| 19:56.54 | file[laptop] | hahahahahaha! |
| 19:57.17 | scanline | KeyserSoze: neither. It tells the server to store a command to copy the bitmap, that will be used later. You're never copying the bitmap between client and server in this case |
| 19:57.35 | scanline | merlin262: hehe |
| 19:59.01 | scanline | 21MB? |
| 19:59.06 | merlin262 | yea, memory usage |
| 19:59.08 | scanline | running what? |
| 19:59.12 | merlin262 | I had 12 apps running |
| 19:59.25 | merlin262 | vrcalc, picture view, all the demos, scribble, |
| 19:59.36 | scanline | was this in the X driver? |
| 19:59.50 | merlin262 | yea |
| 19:59.56 | scanline | hmm.. that couldn't be right |
| 20:00.06 | scanline | either there's a memory leak somewhere, or the memory accounting's getting messed up |
| 20:00.56 | merlin262 | the demoapplication jumps it to 3MB |
| 20:00.59 | merlin262 | "demo" |
| 20:01.02 | scanline | it should tell you on exit if there's a memory leak |
| 20:01.16 | merlin262 | take that back 3k |
| 20:01.21 | file[laptop] | ooh... Mash |
| 20:01.32 | scanline | merlin262: ah |
| 20:01.53 | scanline | have you been betting bytes and kb confused this whole time? ;) |
| 20:02.07 | merlin262 | 14015 root 15 0 21532 21M 2076 S 0.0 8.4 0:23 pgserver |
| 20:03.14 | scanline | merlin262: the X11 driver creates a large number of SHM segments, including one the size of every window |
| 20:03.24 | scanline | merlin262: try something like memprof on it |
| 20:03.25 | merlin262 | that would explain it |
| 20:03.43 | scanline | or turn off double buffering and see how the memory changes |
| 20:03.59 | scanline | if double-buffering and SHM are both off, pgserver should use hardly any memory |
| 20:04.23 | Xentac | merlin262: with 12 apps...? |
| 20:04.37 | merlin262 | Xentac: I'm working on killing it a lot harder than that. |
| 20:04.42 | Xentac | ah |
| 20:05.04 | scanline | merlin262: eh, it's always good to be concerned.... anyway, CTRL-ALT-M will tell you how much memory the core of picogui is using (minus the SHM segments) |
| 20:05.46 | merlin262 | Xentac: I have 50 scribbles running right now |
| 20:05.51 | Xentac | merlin262: hehehe |
| 20:05.57 | scanline | merlin262: try resizing a big window with top open |
| 20:06.14 | scanline | merlin262: it looks like it's counting the SHM segments twice |
| 20:06.35 | merlin262 | odd |
| 20:06.41 | scanline | merlin262: ahh.. scribble will use a TON of memory in X, as it creates a pixmap the size of the screen |
| 20:06.43 | merlin262 | for some reason pgserver has gone from 20M to nothing |
| 20:06.52 | file[laptop] | scary |
| 20:07.00 | file[laptop] | but good |
| 20:07.29 | Xentac | it's the super dyamic lossy compression ;o) |
| 20:09.09 | scanline | merlin262: hmm.. I have double-buffering and SHM both on, and at least a dozen copies of scribble open, and top still shows pgserver using less memory than emacs, xmms, galeon, and X |
| 20:09.43 | scanline | and performance still feels nice and smooth |
| 20:09.49 | merlin262 | scanline: I think it was a fluke |
| 20:09.54 | merlin262 | i have no idea what was going on |
| 20:10.01 | scanline | I blame top funkiness... |
| 20:10.12 | scanline | with this many scribbles, pgserver should be using more than 10MB of memory |
| 20:10.30 | scanline | of course, my X server is using 890MB :) |
| 20:10.49 | captain_proton | haha |
| 20:10.52 | scanline | top can't really tell the difference between malloc'ed memory, shared memory, and mmap'ed hardware |
| 20:11.14 | merlin262 | I've got 32 dialogs, 50 scribbles and a bunch of other apps |
| 20:11.23 | file[laptop] | scanline: why don't you make a top that can? |
| 20:11.35 | scanline | file[laptop]: because there's already memprof |
| 20:12.32 | merlin262 | scanline: I think the culprit is the dialog demo app... |
| 20:12.33 | merlin262 | hmmm... |
| 20:12.57 | scanline | I don't see how that would work.... |
| 20:13.03 | scanline | it's just a couple widgets |
| 20:13.10 | merlin262 | perhaps not, i dunno |
| 20:13.19 | merlin262 | maybe top just got confused again |
| 20:13.25 | scanline | I wouldn't trust top |
| 20:13.49 | merlin262 | scanline: in any case picogui is reporting a bit less than 1 MB in use right now |
| 20:13.53 | merlin262 | with 2594 widgets |
| 20:15.27 | scanline | ooh, and 1234 handles |
| 20:15.28 | scanline | the handle code is solid though. Nice O(ln n) red-black tree |
| 20:15.35 | scanline | hehe, neat |
| 20:15.49 | merlin262 | things are a bit laggy right now |
| 20:16.01 | merlin262 | I have over near 200 picogui apps running though |
| 20:16.41 | scanline | picogui's event loop does need tuning.. if you have a couple apps that are really pumping out requests, other apps will get laggy |
| 20:17.07 | merlin262 | I don't think anyone is going to stree pgserver this much though. :) |
| 20:17.19 | merlin262 | well, you wouldn't think so anyway.... |
| 20:19.04 | scanline | I like stress testing :) |
| 20:19.38 | scanline | Does scrolling get slow in big windows for you? |
| 20:20.15 | scanline | On my system, I open up an 1152x864 image in imgview and size imgview to about 800x600, and scrolling gets laggy |
| 20:20.28 | scanline | wait.. |
| 20:20.33 | scanline | it only gets laggy horizontally :-/ |
| 20:21.07 | merlin262 | scanline: what's an ap I can test with |
| 20:21.09 | Xentac | how are X drivers to blame? |
| 20:21.29 | scanline | one thing that would definitely improve performance would be to disable double-buffering when scrolling |
| 20:21.46 | scanline | Xentac: their performance on large pixmaps is sucking on my machine |
| 20:22.06 | Xentac | double buffers you mean? or the X drivers? |
| 20:22.15 | scanline | ? |
| 20:22.26 | Xentac | their is in refernce to what? |
| 20:22.38 | scanline | ah, false alarm.... I kill the scribble pads and my scrolling isn't laggy |
| 20:22.43 | scanline | I guess I was just running out of video memory |
| 20:22.52 | merlin262 | I think I've managed to kill pgserver |
| 20:22.54 | Xentac | hehehe |
| 20:23.04 | KeyserSoze | scanline: can you have two persistent canvas contexts, that both have bitmaps drawn to them? /me thinks that wouldn't work. |
| 20:23.07 | scanline | merlin262: not too hard to do :) |
| 20:23.20 | scanline | KeyserSoze: why not? |
| 20:23.42 | KeyserSoze | i mean for the same canvas widget. one would be on top of the other, right? |
| 20:23.49 | scanline | oh. yeah |
| 20:23.56 | scanline | no need to do that |
| 20:24.04 | merlin262 | nope, take it back, it's just very laggy |
| 20:24.07 | merlin262 | it's all very laggy |
| 20:25.01 | KeyserSoze | can i have two persistent contexts for the same canvas widget, regardless of what is in them? |
| 20:25.16 | KeyserSoze | or would that be weird? |
| 20:25.31 | merlin262 | scanline: I think for normal non sadistic usage, it'll work just fine |
| 20:25.41 | merlin262 | and for sadistic usage, it appears to work well, even if slowly |
| 20:26.22 | scanline | merlin262: so fix it :)_ |
| 20:26.22 | scanline | s/:)_/:)/ |
| 20:26.39 | merlin262 | scanline: I don't think this is fixable |
| 20:26.44 | KeyserSoze | do pgbitmaps have an alpha channel? |
| 20:26.55 | merlin262 | perhaps you could eek out a bit more performance |
| 20:26.56 | scanline | KeyserSoze: sometimes :) |
| 20:27.05 | merlin262 | but, face it, NOONE is going to have 200 apps open at the same time |
| 20:27.15 | merlin262 | at most I have 5-10 |
| 20:27.45 | merlin262 | that said, optimization is always good |
| 20:28.18 | KeyserSoze | scanline: what exactly happens when two persistent canvas contexts are created for the same canvas widget? are they drawn by the server in any particular order? |
| 20:32.50 | merlin262 | now, the one thing is.. even though picogui is slow... other apps are still responsive... |
| 20:32.50 | scanline | KeyserSoze: pgCreateBitmap() doesn't support creating a bitmap with an alpha channel yet |
| 20:32.50 | scanline | KeyserSoze: the drawing commands are stored in the canvas, not in the context, so they are drawn in whatever order you call the PGFX primitives |
| 20:32.50 | scanline | KeyserSoze: there are ways to manipulate the primitives after you create them, but that isn't implemented in PGFX yet so you'd have to use the lower-level interface |
| 20:32.50 | merlin262 | or not... |
| 20:32.50 | scanline | merlin262: maybe it's the X server bogging down not pgserver ;) |
| 20:32.50 | scanline | merlin262: I've crashed my X server with this thing before :) |
| 20:35.14 | merlin262 | but I'd already have a lot of good data if I'd done that before. :/ |
| 20:35.14 | merlin262 | the good thing is scanline, and yuou'lll like this |
| 20:35.15 | merlin262 | I haven't managed to kill the server yet. |
| 20:35.15 | scanline | yay |
| 20:39.54 | scanline | merlin262: so.. you want CVS write access yet? |
| 20:40.00 | Xentac | http://shadow-shack.20m.com/photo6.html <---- check out the forks on the bike in the top picture! |
| 20:40.02 | KeyserSoze | scanline: i only need to draw something to a canvas context once, whether the context is persistent or immediate, correct? and if it's immediate, then I need to pgContextUpdate it to have everything in it be redrawn to the canvas? |
| 20:40.39 | Xentac | most of the images on that page are weird... |
| 20:40.41 | scanline | KeyserSoze: no, if it's immediate there's no memory of what you draw in it, so you'd have to draw everything again |
| 20:43.19 | scanline | hmm... apparently I can't resize picogui windows in enlightenment |
| 20:44.40 | merlin262 | gotta handle the hints right .:) |
| 20:44.52 | merlin262 | scanline: are you using any threading in pgserver? |
| 20:45.01 | scanline | no |
| 20:46.43 | scanline | I thought about threading, and for a short while pgserver was multithreaded, but it did turn into a mess |
| 20:47.02 | scanline | besides, I don't want to make pgserver require threading |
| 20:47.41 | scanline | The only advantage to multithreading would be servicing client requests while its' busy drawing, but that can be handled in other ways |
| 20:48.10 | merlin262 | it does get laggy with a lot of instances open |
| 20:48.17 | merlin262 | you think there's any sane way of optimizing? |
| 20:49.17 | scanline | Well, first I'd want to find out exactly what makes it laggy with lots of apps open... but the problem I've seen most frequently is one app or one driver hogging pgserver's event loop. That can be solved by implementing a simple scheduler in the event loop |
| 20:49.40 | merlin262 | that's what I was thinking |
| 20:50.25 | scanline | I'd bet that having a lot of apps open is a different problem though, since in that case the extra apps aren't doing anything but using memory |
| 20:50.40 | merlin262 | hmm... probably |
| 20:50.53 | scanline | It could just be all those extra backbuffers depleting the X server's memory and making it slow |
| 20:51.07 | merlin262 | the only thing that doesn't make sense, is other X apps are still fairly working right now |
| 20:51.15 | scanline | one thing we might try is only keeping backbuffers in memory for windows that are currently active |
| 20:51.23 | scanline | hmm, that is weird |
| 20:51.43 | scanline | well, picogui apps would be a lot more video-memory intensive |
| 20:52.08 | scanline | I'd suggest trying it with the Xft font engine, a theme with no blending at all, and with SHM and double-buffering both disabled |
| 20:53.03 | scanline | if it no longer gets laggy, the problem's probably having too much video memory laying around |
| 21:00.23 | merlin262 | hmmm... it just died... |
| 21:17.19 | Xentac | hey gonkulator |
| 21:17.26 | gonkulator | hi Xentac |
| 21:18.20 | gonkulator | later Xentac |
| 21:18.20 | Xentac | ta ta |
| 23:35.53 | darth_balls | yay! darth_balls is back! |
| 23:40.31 | scanline | wb darth_balls |
| 23:41.55 | darth_balls | which day of the weekend? |
| 23:42.03 | darth_balls | cuz sunday we're going skiing |
| 23:42.24 | scanline | dunno |
| 23:42.25 | scanline | just a thought |
| 23:42.31 | scanline | I was looking forward to visiting you :-/ |
| 23:42.32 | darth_balls | sure, you're welcome to come |
| 23:42.47 | scanline | it depends on whether gonkulator's available to drive |
| 23:42.48 | darth_balls | if you're down on sunday you can come skiing too ^_^ |
| 23:42.55 | darth_balls | hell yeah you can come |
| 23:43.08 | scanline | :) |
| 23:43.35 | darth_balls | you can see my cool Rachael Leigh Cook skins for xmms |
| 23:43.36 | darth_balls | ^_^ |
| 23:44.11 | darth_balls | it' sad that I enjoy skins that much |
| 23:45.00 | scanline | heh |
| 23:45.02 | scanline | err, |
| 23:45.02 | darth_balls | but, I'd better go to bed, I'm way tired |
| 23:45.03 | scanline | hehe :) |
| 23:45.07 | scanline | good mmgiht |
| 23:45.08 | darth_balls | ^_^ |
| 23:45.11 | scanline | eep |
| 23:45.13 | scanline | I can't type |
| 23:45.13 | darth_balls | what?? |
| 23:45.15 | scanline | good night |
| 23:45.16 | darth_balls | are you ok? |
| 23:45.17 | darth_balls | hehe |
| 23:45.27 | darth_balls | little intoxicated maybe? |
| 23:45.29 | darth_balls | ;) |
| 23:45.31 | scanline | nyet! |
| 23:45.33 | darth_balls | haha |
| 23:45.35 | darth_balls | night |
| 23:45.38 | scanline | unless dew counts... |
| 23:45.42 | darth_balls | could |