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| 02:31.23 | dgdg | hi i have a ipaq 3700 |
| 02:31.47 | dgdg | ive got opie on it |
| 02:32.12 | dgdg | whenever i try to run ipkg update and ipkg upgrade it dosne do anything |
| 02:33.12 | dgdg | anybody? |
| 02:38.30 | dgdg | wow this is a big help |
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| 02:40.41 | dgdg | ok |
| 02:40.58 | dgdg | now when i run ipkg upgrade it says SIGSEGV |
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| 03:06.23 | Zebulon | hi, all, can you tell me me why qpe-gaim won't run ? |
| 03:20.53 | Zebulon | hey anyone ! what's the url to the lastest stuff (5thoe) ? |
| 03:25.22 | chouimat|Zzzz | night |
| 03:30.46 | Zebulon | hello, finally got qqpe-gaim to work, but when I install the msn protocol, it asks for libgnutl7 (I have Ipaq 3850 and Opie 1.0.2) |
| 03:31.08 | Zebulon | do you know where this package is located ? I cannot find it :-( |
| 03:41.59 | Zebulon | Please HELP !!! |
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| 03:48.12 | Zebulon | hello, finally got qqpe-gaim to work, but when I install the msn protocol, it asks for libgnutl7 (I have Ipaq 3850 and Opie 1.0.2), where is this package ? |
| 04:05.05 | Zebulon | hello, finally got qqpe-gaim to work, but when I install the msn protocol, it asks for libgnutls7 (I have Ipaq 3850 and Opie 1.0.2), where is this package ? |
| 04:26.46 | Zebulon | hello, finally got qqpe-gaim to work, but when I install the msn protocol, it asks for libgnutls7 (I have Ipaq 3850 and Opie 1.0.2), where is this package ? |
| 04:27.09 | treke|home | You only need to ask once. |
| 04:27.15 | treke|home | If someone knows they will answer. |
| 04:27.15 | Zebulon | :-) |
| 04:27.35 | Zebulon | arf, ok, I thought I was alone here since I got no answer :-( |
| 04:27.50 | treke|home | And asking again would help how? :) |
| 04:29.13 | Zebulon | well, since I'm not watching my screen all the time, maybe someone entered the chanel in the meanwhile |
| 04:36.16 | Zebulon | well, how helping me with the compaq foldable keyboard ? I follow the instructions in the FAQ but, right at the begining (probing the module) it fails, no kernel module found :-( any idea ? |
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| 06:03.22 | Zebulon | yop all |
| 06:04.16 | Zebulon | I'm trying to make a french foldable keyboard mapping file and I need too know how you call that character in english ":" |
| 06:14.52 | treke|home | colon? |
| 06:55.29 | Bala | Zebulon: it's in the qpe-gaim feed? |
| 06:55.36 | Bala | s/?/./ |
| 07:00.09 | Zebulon | sorry, Bala, what should be in the qpe-gaim feed ? |
| 07:00.28 | Bala | libgnutls7 |
| 07:01.11 | Zebulon | bah, I cannot find it, what is the url of the feed you refer to ? |
| 07:01.32 | Zebulon | I'm looking there : http://opie.handhelds.org/feed/ipaq/5thtoe/ |
| 07:02.59 | Bala | http://qpe-gaim.sourceforge.net/feed/release/ |
| 07:04.01 | Zebulon | neat, thx :-) |
| 07:04.06 | Bala | np. |
| 07:12.12 | Zebulon | Bala |
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| 07:13.40 | Chicken | hi |
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| 07:15.24 | Bala | yes? |
| 07:15.37 | Zebulon | installed it but |
| 07:15.52 | Zebulon | when I install the msn protocol, it complains about not finding it :-( |
| 07:16.31 | Bala | not finding the .so or not connecting to MSN ? |
| 07:17.04 | Zebulon | ~ # ipkg install libgaim-protocol-msn |
| 07:17.06 | Zebulon | ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for libgaim-protocol-msn: |
| 07:17.06 | Zebulon | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:17.38 | Bala | did you "ipkg install libgnutls7" ? |
| 07:17.55 | Zebulon | yeap with the file from the feed you gave me |
| 07:18.11 | Zebulon | ~ # ipkg install libgnutls7_0.8.10-2_arm.ipk |
| 07:18.13 | Zebulon | SIGSEGV |
| 07:18.27 | Bala | do a "ipkg files libgnutls7" |
| 07:18.58 | Zebulon | says : not installed |
| 07:19.11 | Bala | so its segfaulting when you try to install it... |
| 07:19.19 | Bala | so its not getting installed.. |
| 07:19.41 | Zebulon | arf |
| 07:19.43 | Bala | perhaps a ipks version mismatch or something?? i dont know.. i dont have an iPaq... |
| 07:19.58 | Bala | s/ipks/ipkg/ |
| 07:20.54 | Zebulon | mmmm, should I force the install ? |
| 07:21.21 | Bala | you could.. but i supect it wont work.. it probably needs that library |
| 07:22.04 | Zebulon | well the libgnutls7 refuses to install :-( |
| 07:22.11 | Bala | sorry im not much help |
| 07:23.11 | Zebulon | well it's weird, everything else installed ok, gaim is in my apps launcher window, I just can't create accounts 'cause I can't install protocols :-( |
| 07:23.23 | Bala | hmmm |
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| 11:43.12 | Chicken | re |
| 11:48.29 | Twiun | howdy |
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| 14:33.50 | chouimat | morning |
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| 15:48.00 | MysticFr | hi all ! |
| 15:49.26 | MysticFr | trying fbvncserver on my 3850, works great, except that I display "readonly" no input :-( anybody knows about that ? |
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| 19:00.45 | dawalin | hello?! |
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| 20:14.48 | *** join/#opie TimRiker (~timr@proxyle01.ext.ti.com) |
| 20:15.48 | TimRiker | anyone using the debian op-fb packages? Things start ok with "qpe" but then I can't start anything. Icons change, but strace shows no exec. it does read the .desktop files. thoughts? |
| 20:17.21 | treke | Might not be packaged with quickexec in mind |
| 20:17.31 | treke | are all the binaries links to quickexec? |
| 20:24.02 | TimRiker | how do I tell? |
| 20:24.03 | pbuckley | what version TimRiker |
| 20:24.31 | TimRiker | pbuckley: of which? it's an up to date debian unstable system. |
| 20:24.45 | pbuckley | of qpe |
| 20:25.02 | pbuckley | well let me put it this way.. what version of libpng are you using |
| 20:26.27 | TimRiker | pbuckley: the file is from: op-taskbar-fb 1.0.1.1snapshot20030828-2 |
| 20:26.49 | pbuckley | =/ |
| 20:26.54 | pbuckley | shrug... |
| 20:27.01 | pbuckley | i know there is a bug with libpng3 |
| 20:27.12 | pbuckley | and its symptoms are like what youare describing |
| 20:27.17 | pbuckley | but hell i dont know |
| 20:27.21 | pbuckley | heh |
| 20:27.30 | TimRiker | libpng3? hmm. |
| 20:27.54 | TimRiker | qpe is linked with libpng12.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpng12.so.0 (0x407fd000) |
| 20:28.34 | pbuckley | hmm |
| 20:28.36 | pbuckley | 12 should work |
| 20:28.38 | pbuckley | =/ |
| 20:29.20 | TimRiker | I can navigate the menus, and taskbar applets work, but I can't start any applications. |
| 20:30.00 | TimRiker | strace shows qpe reading the .desktop files, but then not running (exec*) anything. |
| 20:45.19 | ljp | opie? |
| 20:45.49 | ljp | is there a quicklaunch binary? |
| 20:46.00 | ljp | and say, addressbok->quicklaunch |
| 20:46.49 | ljp | treke: you keep calling quicklaunch, quickexec |
| 20:47.22 | ljp | hmm, oh.. debian opie package |
| 20:57.02 | TimRiker | where do I look for that? |
| 20:59.40 | ljp | that would be in opie cvs, but if debians opie is 1.01, it might not be quicklaunch |
| 20:59.54 | TimRiker | hmm. I can set apps for "fast load" but that still does not cause an exec. |
| 21:00.26 | TimRiker | I can exec calculator (for example) outside of qpe and it runs, but it does not connect to qpe correctly. I suspect missing env variables. |
| 21:06.53 | treke | make sure OPIEDIR and QTDIR are set right |
| 21:23.52 | TimRiker | treke: they are set, but I'm not sure they are correct. I have: |
| 21:24.39 | TimRiker | LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/opie/plugins/inputmethods |
| 21:25.08 | TimRiker | QTDIR=/usr/share/qte2 QTEDIR=/usr/share/qte2 OPIEDIR=/usr |
| 21:28.07 | ljp | ummm. you sure about that LD_LIBRARY_PATH? |
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| 21:32.09 | TimRiker | ljp: well, input methods don't show up without that. |
| 21:32.31 | treke | LD_LIBRARY_PATH should have $OPIEDIR/lib in it I think |
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| 21:32.49 | treke | though I guess that would be /usr/lib |
| 21:33.40 | TimRiker | well, debian policy requires that things get integrated into the OS layout and not gross =) things like /opt/opie/{bin|lib|etc} |
| 21:34.35 | treke | I suspect you'll need to check with the maintainer |
| 21:34.43 | TimRiker | yeah, hence the OPIEDIR being /usr. I might try qtdir there too and see. I would think there would be a qpe package and it would have and opie shell script to set all this mess up. |
| 21:35.13 | TimRiker | QTDIR/QPEDIR/OPIEDIR are all Bad Things. |
| 21:38.37 | treke | package management exists to make our lives easier, putting things all over the place and using environmental variables is just a mess |
| 21:39.01 | ljp | heh |
| 21:40.26 | ljp | try having 10 qtopia trees, 5 opie trees without using env variables |
| 21:40.50 | treke | You can do that. |
| 21:41.06 | treke | no problem whatsoever |
| 21:41.19 | ljp | riiiiight |
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| 21:41.38 | treke | ljp: Make opie figure out it's path. |
| 21:42.29 | treke | of course, the file system structure used for development and used for users are completly different |
| 21:42.39 | treke | a user will only have one opie install, so why put it in /opt |
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| 21:42.59 | ljp | cause its OPTional |
| 21:43.38 | treke | Most everything in /usr is optional. Should we eliminate it altogether? |
| 21:44.32 | ljp | I dont think optional packages such as kde, or gnome belong in /usr |
| 21:44.49 | pb_ | well, like treke said, if you follow that logic then virtually nothing would belong in /usr. |
| 21:45.03 | pb_ | emacs? x11? gcc? all those are optional. |
| 21:45.13 | ljp | no, because there are not really other packages as large as kde and gnome |
| 21:45.21 | ljp | emacs is not optinal :) |
| 21:45.45 | pb_ | as far as I'm concerned, gnome isn't optional. |
| 21:46.07 | treke | Thanks to the joys of automation, the size of the package is mostly irrelavant. A reasonable package manager can hand a 10,000 file package or a 10 file packages just the same. |
| 21:46.17 | ljp | perhaps emacs should go into /opt |
| 21:46.25 | treke | and with gnome, it's really not a single package, but hundreds of little packages |
| 21:46.37 | treke | too bad kde doesnt do the same thing |
| 21:46.38 | pb_ | ljp: what tangible benefit do you derive from putting stuff in /opt? |
| 21:46.52 | pb_ | other than a general feeling of satisfaction, which doesn't count. |
| 21:47.00 | ljp | easier to find |
| 21:47.22 | ljp | why not just put everything into one directory / |
| 21:48.01 | pb_ | personally I'd be quite happy with losing the distinction between /bin and /usr/bin as well. |
| 21:48.23 | treke | don't they do that with hurd? |
| 21:48.32 | pb_ | yeah, I think so. something like that, anyway. |
| 21:49.15 | ljp | anyway, opt is easier to type then usr |
| 21:49.19 | ljp | :) |
| 21:50.11 | ljp | you never cd to /usr/ |
| 21:50.24 | treke | nope |
| 21:50.31 | pb_ | I don't think I do. shells have this wonderful thing called $PATH. |
| 21:51.25 | treke | I go to /home, /stuff, and /etc, but dpkg happily manages /usr for me |
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| 21:52.19 | ljp | you guys hear about Qt Solutions? |
| 21:52.49 | pb_ | not me |
| 21:53.01 | treke | It's about time we get a sollution for the qt problem |
| 21:53.07 | ljp | hehe |
| 21:53.23 | ljp | http://www.trolltech.com/products/solutions/index.html |
| 21:55.05 | ljp | th epie menu is a bit odd |
| 21:55.11 | ljp | the pie, even |
| 21:56.01 | treke | gee. that looks, uhm, interesting |
| 21:56.50 | pb_ | those crazy trolls. |
| 21:57.05 | treke | Of course, that is assuming you pay trolltech an assload of money |
| 21:57.17 | pb_ | I guess that means I'm safe. |
| 21:57.51 | treke | yup |
| 22:02.03 | ljp | and I suppose the companies you guys works for gives away everything for free |
| 22:02.23 | treke | Yes. |
| 22:02.49 | treke | Dont expect us to get excited over something that is of no use to any of us. |
| 22:04.01 | treke | "cool, trolltech is releasing stuff to people who pay them 3+k per year" |
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| 22:05.16 | ljp | obviuosly you never read that page |
| 22:05.38 | treke | I did read that page |
| 22:10.30 | Disconnect | ljp: actually. my company does give away everything for free.. |
| 22:11.16 | Disconnect | (and we've contributed back in some way or another to most of the projects that we work with. extensions for bigbrother - OS but not free, sorta - bug reports, patches, etc...) |
| 22:12.11 | Disconnect | most of our products aren't OSS but thats mainly because the gov't would have us arrested for trying it ;) |
| 22:12.40 | Chicken | gn8 |
| 22:14.51 | Disconnect | (and most of the internal products we use wouldn't do you any good without the corresponding ends at us customs anyway) |
| 22:17.34 | Disconnect | and as I think about it, I can't think of an external product that we haven't given source to someone for, for free, at one time or another. (generally to get it running on a new platform, serve as a reference implementation, etc..) |
| 22:20.08 | ljp | so your saying your company has no income |
| 22:20.14 | ljp | ? |
| 22:22.41 | Disconnect | (the timing is interesting, since I was just commenting to a coworker that if/when we do up the mobile-device status check app, we're gonna have to think amazingly hard about whether we want zaurus (qt or opie) support.. |
| 22:24.07 | Disconnect | which is funny, since the phone SDKs are free or mostly free (what costs is getting into their OTA loading library.. which we don't need) .. the palm is free, wince is free (we've already got the tools) etc.. then you get to the Z and its either support commercial qt (for what, $3k or more?) or gpl the whole mess .. or both, if you want to work with opie.. |
| 22:25.04 | ljp | qtopia developer licenses are $200 |
| 22:25.40 | Disconnect | http://www.trolltech.com/products/embedded/pricing.html |
| 22:25.49 | Disconnect | $3400 |
| 22:25.52 | ljp | thats for qt embedded |
| 22:26.18 | Disconnect | wow PLUS runtime fees. it gets better.. |
| 22:26.28 | pole | ;,,; |
| 22:26.40 | pole | what "whole mess" with gpl? |
| 22:26.46 | ljp | and... how much does your company gross per year? |
| 22:26.50 | pole | you got the tools, so why complain? |
| 22:27.16 | Disconnect | ljp: last I checked, >20mil USD |
| 22:27.30 | ljp | then $3500 is a pittence |
| 22:28.24 | Disconnect | ljp: heh. sure. "hey boss.. we can support the most under-used pdas on the planet! all we need to do is gpl the app (customs would skin us) or spend 10x the licensing cost of any other mobile environment, PLUS runtime fees!" |
| 22:29.16 | Disconnect | ok. so $200 instead of $0 .. better than $3k, worse than $0 |
| 22:29.35 | ljp | if you are wanting to ship a device with qte, you get into runtimes and the qte OEM license |
| 22:29.37 | pb_ | Disconnect: out of interest, why would gpl be a problem? |
| 22:29.58 | ljp | because then you can sell commercial apps for it |
| 22:30.03 | ljp | cant |
| 22:30.29 | Disconnect | ljp: actually, the app is free. just like the rest. |
| 22:30.42 | pb_ | ljp: ah, not even if the apps are GPL? |
| 22:30.55 | ljp | gpl is fine |
| 22:31.00 | Disconnect | pb_: because it talks to USCS servers/networks. their security guys don't know a lot, but they know what they hate ;) |
| 22:31.09 | pb_ | Disconnect: aha. |
| 22:31.34 | Disconnect | pb_: the gpl-licensed qt can be used to create commercial apps. the apps just have to also be gpl (you can sell gpl apps, you just can't be assured of ever having more than one customer ;) ..) |
| 22:31.49 | pb_ | right, that's what I thought. |
| 22:32.14 | quaqo | Bye all... |
| 22:32.21 | ljp | one customer.. |
| 22:32.43 | Disconnect | ljp: ..the first guy who buys it and reqs source can give it away after that. |
| 22:32.56 | ljp | I seem to have dols guiet a few gpl apps |
| 22:33.01 | ljp | sold, even |
| 22:33.10 | ljp | err and quite |
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| 22:33.40 | ljp | and not one of them asked for sources |
| 22:35.02 | Disconnect | so its entirely possible to sell it forever and never release sources (if they are never requested) .. |
| 22:35.21 | pb_ | Disconnect: right, and there are plenty of corporate customers who wouldn't want to give the binaries away to other people (presumably their competitors) even if they were GPLd. |
| 22:35.37 | Disconnect | sort of like a backwards BK (larry says that for a sufficient sponsorship, he'll gpl BK .. in this case, the 'sponsorship' is those first few sales) |
| 22:36.24 | Disconnect | pb_: yep. this doesn't qualify tho. (and come to think of it, our main product can't ever be gpl because a lot of the IP is owned by USCS) |
| 22:37.12 | Disconnect | well.. can't ever in this version. we're looking at a full rewrite next year, which will be 100% ours. and we may gpl it as a marketing game, since its service-based ;) |
| 22:39.33 | Disconnect | but in any case - consider: for free (not counting developer time, which will be minimized through the creative use of libraries) we can build our app for wince, palm, qpe, gtk, win32. to make a zaurus app costs money.. this puts the Z development cycle where wince was back when it was 100% separate from win32 dev licensing. (now, as I recall, its either free or free-with-win32-dev. I'll check.. brb.) |
| 22:41.11 | Disconnect | yah its part of visual studio now. |
| 22:41.33 | ljp | and I suppose visual studio is free |
| 22:42.26 | Disconnect | when was the last time you were in a dev shop that built consumer apps and didn't have visual studio? |
| 22:43.06 | Disconnect | 99% of our work is unix. we still have 2 licenses. and (to us) it is, USCS covered that because it was their requirement that we do up a win32 client for part of one app. |
| 22:43.36 | Disconnect | besides, as I recall, bootblaster (and some other apps) were done up free with gcc. |
| 22:43.43 | ljp | ok, and how can you say development is free for those platforms, when you have to buy visual studio for how much?? |
| 22:45.26 | Disconnect | because thats one option. the other is: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=4848 |
| 22:45.58 | ljp | but your company owns and uses visual studio |
| 22:46.15 | ljp | ownes as in licenses. :) |
| 22:47.27 | Disconnect | for desktop work. for the embedded project[s] we're more likely to use gcc - that (plus java) covers wince, gtk, smartphones (java, possibly wml for dumb smartphones), palm (gcc or java). |
| 22:49.02 | Disconnect | the Z is in the position of wince "way back when" - the hardware is relatively expensive and there is a developer tax. its got a mild bonus from the large pile of preexisting gpl software. |
| 22:49.32 | ljp | developer tax |
| 22:50.06 | Disconnect | and its further screwed by opie - want a commercial app for opie? sorry, no such animal. gpl patches in opie's libqt mean your TT license is invalid. unless you get lucky and a version linked against the TT gpl lib works against the modified opie lib.. |
| 22:50.40 | Disconnect | developer tax. be a developer, get taxed $200 (a year, right?) |
| 22:51.50 | ljp | not a year |
| 22:52.12 | ljp | so, if you are planning on selling your app, why shouldnt TT also get paid> |
| 22:52.14 | ljp | ? |
| 22:52.30 | Disconnect | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:53.22 | Disconnect | because there is a difference between selling the app and gpling it. |
| 22:54.21 | Disconnect | on this mobile app, for example. we get zero from the client. (we get paid by USCS based on the amount of traffic..) we don't even get paid by USCS for clients who use it. the goal is that clients who use it will run more traffic through, but chances are thats not going to happen - most of them already run their max through us. |
| 22:54.32 | ljp | umm, ok. if you are making money off off TT's work, not should TT not make money also? |
| 22:54.44 | Disconnect | so this app -might- make us $100 a year. |
| 22:55.23 | ljp | so your company is into loosing money then |
| 22:55.23 | Disconnect | having it run on more than just palm is our idea, because (when we get started - prolly in the summer) we'll have time to do it right and do it multiplatform. |
| 22:55.39 | *** join/#opie pattieja (~pattieja@63-252-5-1.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 22:56.23 | Disconnect | no, we're into not violating the contract. doing -anything- that runs on a mobile device (and yah, I could prolly convince them that something that only ran under familiar/qpe counted) keeps our contract. doing it right is because we want to. |
| 22:57.52 | Disconnect | when I buy my Z, I pay TT for their work. will I get a refund if I flash it with X11? |
| 22:59.13 | Disconnect | (for that matter, since I've got OZ/opie and the gpl qt on there right now, the same thing applies.. paid for it because I couldn't buy the device bare, now I want my 'windows refund' ;) ...) |
| 23:02.59 | ljp | you pay Sharp |
| 23:03.10 | Disconnect | and sharp didn't pay TT? |
| 23:03.15 | ljp | yes |
| 23:03.30 | Disconnect | thats like saying its not a windows refund because I paid dell, not microsoft. |
| 23:03.41 | ljp | so you get a refund if you format your windows hardrive and install linux? |
| 23:03.53 | pbuckley | you should =p |
| 23:03.54 | Disconnect | actually, I did get one. thanks for asking. |
| 23:04.00 | ljp | riiight |
| 23:04.18 | Disconnect | (it was luck - bought the thing in cali, on a business trip) |
| 23:05.45 | *** join/#opie lsmith (~vandal@p213.54.241.173.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 23:06.59 | ljp | so, you think if you put another engine in a car, you should get a refund |
| 23:09.31 | George- | ljp!!! |
| 23:09.57 | Disconnect | ljp: hardware mods are a bit different.. btw, where is the runtime license? I can't find it on the site. (which is irritating, since I have one..) |
| 23:11.25 | ljp | runtimes for qte? |
| 23:11.40 | ljp | george |
| 23:11.57 | George- | Disconnect: don't forget that ljp works for tt now and he's been drilled into attempting to make them as much money as possible |
| 23:12.01 | Disconnect | Qt/Embedded Runtime License -- the thing that sharp had to buy before they send me a pda with QTE on it. |
| 23:12.04 | Disconnect | George-: yep |
| 23:12.16 | George- | then again, all of his points are valid |
| 23:12.17 | ljp | emale sales@ trolltech.com |
| 23:12.40 | ljp | no space before trolltech.com |
| 23:13.14 | George- | die... potter... |
| 23:13.31 | ljp | your arms dont reach this far, george |
| 23:13.43 | George- | DIE!!!!! |
| 23:14.22 | ljp | no |
| 23:16.07 | ljp | what other stuff |
| 23:16.42 | Disconnect | ljp: I gotta run, but btw the point you missed is that sharp is the one that would be expected to issue a refund. (now, that doesn't mean they wouldn't come after TT for it, but thats a side issue - more likely they'd just reuse that license on another device. most likely they'd just do nothing if it was just 1 or 2..) |
| 23:16.52 | Disconnect | ljp: hancom*, netfront, etc |
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| 23:29.34 | *** join/#opie stigger (~jeff@p079-n1-gos.nlc.net.au) |