| 00:20:44 | ljp | anyone know how I could mount a rom file from my linux desktop? |
| 00:25:16 | zecke123 | ljp loopback and nfs? |
| 00:25:42 | zecke123 | mount -oloop -t type romname /mountpoint |
| 00:27:53 | ljp | is the rom cramfs? |
| 00:28:23 | roge99 | ljp: if you have a romimage file you need to extract the initrd.bin from it |
| 02:09:52 | gregday | is there a changelogbetween beta 6 and 7? |
| 02:21:59 | treke | closest thing is the cvs logs |
| 02:46:35 | zecke123 | good nite |
| 04:06:42 | kergoth`home | sakha123: sup |
| 04:20:15 | sakha123 | not much,im juz tryin to write the jabber app for the z |
| 04:20:20 | sakha123 | wassup with u? |
| 04:20:26 | kergoth`home | ah, hows that going/ |
| 04:20:32 | kergoth`home | not much, working on openzaurus beta 3 |
| 04:21:24 | kergoth`home | i should checkout the new opiemail that zecke checked in |
| 04:22:43 | kergoth`home | hey sean |
| 04:23:01 | sean | hi kergoth |
| 04:23:11 | sakha123 | cool, sometimes i fell i shudnt be working on a jabber app, after all there is already 1 avail from thekompany, and the screenshots of that looked pretty sleek |
| 04:23:36 | gregday | but thekompany's stuff is proprietary |
| 04:23:36 | sakha123 | i wudnt be able to match that kinda chic ui or functionality |
| 04:23:48 | sean | competition = good |
| 04:24:28 | sakha123 | sean: ya i know, thatz what keeps me going |
| 04:25:11 | sakha123 | now is the opie running directly on the framebuffer or is there a thin X lib layer? |
| 04:26:12 | kergoth`home | sakha123: direct |
| 04:26:24 | kergoth`home | sakha123: work is being done to allow it to run on either X or FB, but currently its just fb |
| 04:28:21 | sakha123 | cool, i ask because i dont have a Z, but i have a Philips Nino, myself an a guy Steven Hill is porting linux onto the nino ( mostly steven is :p) |
| 04:28:43 | kergoth`home | oh ic.. |
| 04:28:44 | sakha123 | if we get it all working, can we put opie on it? is there any licensing issue etc.? |
| 04:29:05 | gregday | you say Nino and i have this image of Linux running on Chris Farley |
| 04:30:44 | sakha123 | pardon my ignorance, but i dunno who Chris Farley is |
| 04:31:59 | gregday | comedian... on SNL, he played a wrestler named "El Nino" it was hilarious |
| 04:32:43 | sakha123 | oh cool i will check that out sometime |
| 11:13:47 | zecke123 | moin |
| 11:14:28 | Harlekin | qhi |
| 13:54:56 | bipolar | is back (gone 14:51:38) |
| 13:55:04 | zecke123 | hi bipolar |
| 13:55:11 | bipolar | zecke123: Hiya! |
| 13:55:20 | bipolar | zecke123: Did you get the makefile thing working? |
| 13:55:27 | zecke123 | yeah |
| 13:55:32 | bipolar | cool! |
| 13:55:36 | zecke123 | mkmakefile was my friend ;) |
| 13:55:41 | bipolar | hehehe |
| 13:56:14 | bipolar | zecke123: how much do you have done? |
| 13:56:32 | zecke123 | I checked in opieMail but I'll change it in many way read the TODO |
| 13:56:40 | zecke123 | for what? |
| 13:56:56 | bipolar | zecke123: Everything? :) |
| 13:56:59 | bipolar | heh |
| 13:58:06 | zecke123 | it would be working if you've the counterpart for the Desktop but this will be part of my syncProgram |
| 13:58:07 | bipolar | reads some new source code.... |
| 13:58:17 | ljp | where is the TODO? |
| 13:58:41 | zecke123 | in opiemail/ but it's incomplete |
| 13:58:59 | ljp | that's for opiemail? |
| 13:59:03 | bipolar | can anyone get to opie.handhedls.org? |
| 13:59:04 | zecke123 | yes |
| 13:59:26 | bipolar | shit. I cant. wtf |
| 13:59:27 | zecke123 | bipolar: yes |
| 13:59:40 | bipolar | I cant get to anything on hh.org |
| 13:59:55 | ljp | I can.. but it's slow |
| 14:00:07 | bipolar | hehe... Linus is trying out bitkeeper. :) |
| 14:00:41 | zecke123 | but he got slower ;) |
| 14:01:03 | bipolar | ahh... theres hh.org. |
| 14:01:45 | bipolar | stupid dns... |
| 14:03:28 | bipolar | really needs to get the website into CVS. |
| 14:04:14 | zecke123 | bipolar: in $OPIEDIR/README we're referring to qpe.sf.net is it ok? |
| 14:04:27 | bipolar | hmm... should change that. |
| 14:06:33 | bipolar | And the configure script should say "Opie is configured" not "QPE is configured". :) |
| 14:08:02 | bipolar | W00t! my /. post got a +5! yay! I'm *Somebody*! rotfl |
| 14:08:12 | ljp | I found a bug in jumpx |
| 14:08:20 | bipolar | ljp: ? |
| 14:09:30 | ljp | the Alt and Control .. but I'm not sure what its doing exactly |
| 14:10:56 | ljp | doesn't act the same as the 'keyboard' inputmethod |
| 14:11:04 | bipolar | hmm |
| 14:13:08 | bipolar | I wonder how roge99 is making out with the KAB data dumping scripts. |
| 14:13:24 | | roge99 was last seen on #zaurus 9 hours, 51 minutes and 26 seconds ago, saying: nite all [Wed Feb 6 04:21:58 2002] |
| 14:13:24 | bipolar | ibot: seen roge99? |
| 14:16:49 | ljp | if you guys use the updated openssh v3 from ZZ, you might want to strip 'em. |
| 14:17:27 | bipolar | hehe |
| 14:17:52 | bipolar | Whats better about v3? |
| 14:18:11 | bipolar | I don't even have ssh installed on my iPaq. :) |
| 14:18:50 | ljp | security |
| 14:21:31 | ljp | when I do cvs update it isn't seeing that I do not have opiemail.. how do I get that? |
| 14:22:03 | bipolar | ljp: re-checkout |
| 14:22:37 | ljp | that won't try to merge anything will it? |
| 14:23:12 | bipolar | ljp: I don't think so. You might want to tar up your changes to be safe. |
| 14:23:25 | bipolar | I think it will ignore chaged files. |
| 14:32:52 | bipolar | Anyone here know Max Weninger? He's sent me a patch to enable fullscreen mode of mpeg player and for ctrl-c, ctrl-z, and ctrl-d to work in the console app. ljp, do you know anything about that? |
| 14:36:14 | bipolar | shit. He did not send me a diff, he sent me the raw .cpp files! |
| 14:36:24 | ljp | nope... there's a max that frequents #zaurus, I think he might work with thekompany |
| 14:37:06 | bipolar | ljp: Thats not him. He'd have a @thekompany.com domain then. |
| 14:37:28 | bipolar | ljp: Can you take a look at this file for embkonsole if I email it to you? |
| 14:39:12 | ljp | ya.. you hav emy email? |
| 14:39:19 | bipolar | ljp: not on hand |
| 14:39:24 | ljp | ljp@llornkcor.com |
| 14:40:10 | bipolar | sent |
| 14:40:36 | bipolar | can gutenbrowser be used to read any other kind of ebook? |
| 14:41:09 | ljp | not at the moment.. what were you thinking of? |
| 14:41:21 | bipolar | Just curious |
| 14:41:36 | bipolar | I'm also looking at the sword app. |
| 14:41:37 | ljp | it just handles text |
| 14:41:50 | bipolar | I can't get that to compile though. |
| 14:43:21 | ljp | I've seens that, I haven't checked it out, though |
| 14:44:33 | bipolar | the code is fux3rd |
| 14:45:07 | ljp | that's funny |
| 14:45:25 | | scribe was last seen on #handhelds.org 8 hours, 14 minutes and 46 seconds ago, saying: thanks for being my guinny pig [Wed Feb 6 06:30:39 2002] |
| 14:45:25 | bipolar | ibot: seen scribe? |
| 14:45:31 | bipolar | hehe |
| 14:45:36 | | scribe_ was last seen on #zaurus 18 hours, 36 minutes and 49 seconds ago, saying: bipolar: sure, scribe@crosswire.org [Tue Feb 5 20:08:47 2002] |
| 14:45:36 | bipolar | ibot: seen scribe_? |
| 14:46:00 | bipolar | Perhaps an email is in order.... :) |
| 14:47:31 | bipolar | ahh... there is now a feed with qpsword ipks. :) |
| 14:49:50 | ljp | well.. I hate to do this.. but.. I gotto go into work...BAH! |
| 14:50:01 | bipolar | :_( |
| 15:06:23 | kergoth`work | mornin |
| 15:28:48 | Harlekin | re |
| 15:30:18 | bipolar | Harlekin: hiya |
| 15:31:22 | Harlekin | hi |
| 16:26:05 | kergoth`work | sup zecke |
| 16:26:18 | zecke | sup? |
| 16:26:39 | kergoth`work | nada. workin the kinks out of my buildsystem |
| 16:27:28 | zecke | what's worse wasting ram or inodes on the harddisk of a Opie PDA? |
| 16:28:27 | bipolar | zecke: inodes |
| 16:28:36 | bipolar | zecke: theres never enough flash. |
| 16:28:40 | zecke | damn |
| 16:28:56 | bipolar | zecke: just use /tmp :) |
| 16:29:25 | zecke | it's for the mailclient. Currently a MBox getts preparsed and put onto the Opie PDA |
| 16:29:57 | zecke | Then you can simply do a QValueList<NoMBoxEntry> m_box; stream >> m_box; |
| 16:30:15 | zecke | but then all mails we'll be read into the ram |
| 16:30:19 | bipolar | zecke: I'm working on duplicating the persistent ram FS of the Zaurus, if that helps any. |
| 16:30:32 | zecke | no |
| 16:30:59 | zecke | I would prefer having a index which holds the informations Subject, Date, Sender, RefId |
| 16:31:03 | zecke | and Path |
| 16:31:23 | zecke | and then only read one NoMBoxEntry the whole text into ram |
| 17:00:49 | kergoth`work | zecke: it appears that the Makefile built in opiemail isnt building opiemail/lib on its own as a prerequisite |
| 17:03:45 | zecke | but the toplevel Makefile is building it right before. I'm not familiar with tmake :( |
| 17:04:03 | zecke | I also would like to link statically... |
| 17:05:51 | kergoth`work | yeah i'm looking at it.. not sure how to get it doing it |
| 17:10:10 | zecke | leave it dynamic please |
| 17:10:52 | kergoth`work | i meant the prerequisite build prob, i'm not going to mess w/ static vs dynamic, ill leave that to you |
| 17:10:54 | kergoth`work | :-) |
| 17:21:55 | kergoth`work | zecke: got it. |
| 17:22:01 | zecke | kewl |
| 17:22:37 | kergoth`work | had to add the .ui, .h, and .cpp files in lib/ to the opiemail.pro INTERFACES, HEADERS, and SOURCES variables respectively |
| 17:22:39 | kergoth`work | i'll check it in |
| 17:22:48 | kergoth`work | thanks to the implicit rules, it generates the lib first |
| 17:23:01 | zecke | ah good |
| 17:23:31 | kergoth`work | k, checked in the new opiemail.pro |
| 17:23:43 | kergoth`work | i'll have to check out your mail client, havent tried running it yet |
| 17:24:40 | zecke | kergoth`work: it's not that much without prepared mboxes :( |
| 17:25:09 | kergoth`work | zecke: have you decided how you're going to handle that? |
| 17:25:17 | kergoth`work | zecke: what protocols does it support btw? |
| 17:25:19 | zecke | yes |
| 17:25:39 | zecke | it relies on the Desktop to send mails and to get the emails |
| 17:26:08 | kergoth`work | ah cool.. does it sync with a desktop app then? |
| 17:26:27 | zecke | yes this was my entry to the Contest |
| 17:26:36 | kergoth`work | oh cool, good luck :-) |
| 17:26:46 | kergoth`work | what desktop app(s) does it sync with? |
| 17:26:48 | zecke | but it'll support POP3, SMTP, IMAP(?), the own format |
| 17:27:00 | zecke | SyncApp2... |
| 17:27:14 | kergoth`work | i'm looking forward to seeing all the nifty contest submissions when the contest is over |
| 17:27:29 | zecke | I can send you the source ( it good some performance problems easy to resolve) |
| 17:32:46 | zecke | hoefully all apps will be gpled |
| 17:33:44 | kergoth`work | yeah hopefully.. somehow i doubt they all will, but i hope a good amount of them are anyway. would certainly help this project.. |
| 17:38:35 | zecke | but what do we really need? |
| 17:40:04 | Harlekin | what is simons feed? |
| 17:40:30 | zecke | Harlekin: ask him.... |
| 17:40:41 | Harlekin | hmm |
| 17:40:46 | zecke | he's in #kde |
| 17:40:53 | Harlekin | or i will just wait for the new version |
| 17:40:57 | Harlekin | in opie |
| 17:58:09 | mark_ | starts to sort out the pics/ mess |
| 18:20:20 | kergoth`work | sup treke |
| 18:20:43 | bipolar | gotta go grab some grub.... |
| 18:20:46 | treke | nada |
| 18:21:52 | mark_ | god this is so frustrating |
| 18:22:36 | treke | problems? |
| 18:23:34 | mark_ | slow opie cvs |
| 18:27:31 | mark_ | kergoth`work: have you trolled (so to speak) through patches sent to qpe-devel to see if there are any merriting inclusing in opie? |
| 18:28:32 | kergoth`work | sort of.. i monitor it .. I've seen a couple recently that may merit inclusion, but havent had time to work on that |
| 18:29:28 | mark_ | someone has written a sd/mmc monitor for example |
| 18:29:35 | kergoth`work | yep, the guy that did the cdcether patch. |
| 18:29:48 | kergoth`work | that definately merits inclusion, imho |
| 18:30:33 | mark_ | yeh, that was what I was thinking |
| 18:30:39 | treke | damn. have to reflash :( My root partitions corrupt |
| 18:40:20 | mark_ | wb bipolar |
| 18:40:24 | bipolar | :D |
| 18:43:42 | mark_ | gah pics/ is gonna take forever to sort |
| 18:44:30 | | ljp was last seen on #opie 3 hours, 54 minutes and 40 seconds ago, saying: well.. I hate to do this.. but.. I gotto go into work...BAH! [Wed Feb 6 14:49:50 2002] |
| 18:44:30 | bipolar | ibot: seen ljp |
| 18:44:32 | mark_ | kergoth`work: I need an opinion :) - icons, should they be with the packages or in opie-pics? |
| 18:44:54 | bipolar | mark_: In the packages. |
| 18:45:02 | ljp_work | hi! |
| 18:45:07 | bipolar | ljp_work: hahaha I was just looking for you. |
| 18:45:14 | mark_ | bipolar: then they can't be made into inline.h for quicker loading :( |
| 18:45:23 | ljp_work | is there any reason why TERM is defaulted to VT100? |
| 18:45:33 | bipolar | mark_: huh? |
| 18:45:47 | bipolar | mark_: icons? |
| 18:46:19 | mark_ | bipolar: :) - the things in pics/inline are converted (using qtembedd) into raw data in a .h file, and included in libqpe (well thats what the readme says) |
| 18:46:48 | kergoth`work | mark_: i'd leave the inline pics as is |
| 18:46:56 | bipolar | mark_: I thought that was the inline images inside of apps, not icons. |
| 18:47:27 | bipolar | icons= what you tap on to start an app. |
| 18:47:37 | mark_ | bipolar: yes, I know, they are in inline |
| 18:48:18 | bipolar | mark_: then how do other apps have their icons? |
| 18:48:27 | mark_ | bipolar: they just shove them in pics/ |
| 18:48:36 | bipolar | mark_: :\ |
| 18:48:54 | bipolar | But that is a packaging thing, not a code thing. |
| 18:49:18 | bipolar | is in stupid mode.... |
| 18:49:26 | mark_ | bipolar: :) |
| 18:49:33 | mark_ | is not good at explaining stuff |
| 18:50:16 | ljp_work | mark_: you were looking for me? |
| 18:50:42 | mark_ | ljp_work: hmm, was I? |
| 18:50:47 | ljp_work | whoops, I mean bipolar |
| 18:50:57 | ljp_work | god it would help if I could read |
| 18:51:14 | bipolar | ljp_work: yeah. I was wondering if you got to look at that file isent you. |
| 18:51:32 | ljp_work | yes I did. |
| 18:51:42 | bipolar | anything intersting? |
| 18:51:52 | mark_ | kergoth`work: okay, I'll leave it - but i'm gonna create a icons/ dir for other apps to put their icons |
| 18:52:17 | ljp_work | yes and no, I suppose. |
| 18:52:21 | mark_ | kergoth`work: and not include inline/ in opie-pics i suppose |
| 18:52:56 | kergoth`work | hmm |
| 18:53:09 | ljp_work | bipolar: its just remappng them.. that's why I asked about $TERM being default to VT100 |
| 18:53:31 | kergoth`work | mark_: is the pics vs icons seperation necessary? |
| 18:53:37 | ljp_work | bipolar:maybe that's an OZ thing |
| 18:53:59 | mark_ | kergoth`work: in my vision :), I see no actual images in pics/ - they are all in subdirs |
| 18:54:25 | mark_ | kergoth`work: as in icons/ and then apps put their pics in a myapp/ dir |
| 18:54:44 | kergoth`work | mark_: hmmm k, so icons included with opie in opie-pics are in pics/icons/ then? |
| 18:55:03 | ljp_work | bipolar: I'm going to have to look at this more... there's really not much to the patch |
| 18:55:48 | bipolar | ljp_work: k. I was just curious. :) |
| 18:55:55 | mark_ | kergoth`work: yes, but why not have them all inline? |
| 18:56:05 | kergoth`work | mark_: btw the new ipkg will support Provides:, to fix our annoyances dealing with things like the jumpx skins |
| 18:56:05 | mark_ | kergoth`work: (all the icons shipping with opie-pics) |
| 18:56:16 | kergoth`work | mark_: hmm could do that, wonder how much larger thatd make libqpe? |
| 18:56:33 | mark_ | kergoth`work: so what? they take up the same amount of space whereever they go |
| 18:56:54 | mark_ | kergoth`work: and we improve performance and organisation while we are at it |
| 18:57:01 | kergoth`work | mark_: go for it then |
| 18:57:18 | mark_ | kergoth`work: okay, gotta great relatives now, have supper, then i'll come back and do it |
| 18:57:28 | kergoth`work | mark_: cool. have fun |
| 18:57:36 | bipolar | mark_: hehe |
| 18:57:52 | mark_ | kergoth`work: but putting all the icons in inline is silly - so maybe only 'core' ones....... |
| 18:58:25 | ljp_work | guess I'm going to have to learn more about keycodes and keymaps |
| 18:58:25 | mark_ | shall ponder over supper |
| 19:22:32 | | i heard opie was at opie.handhelds.org |
| 19:22:32 | treke | ibot opie |
| 19:22:40 | | treke: i'm not following you... |
| 19:22:40 | treke | ibot opie-feed |
| 19:31:56 | treke | ooh. a nice clean install :) this is nice |
| 19:36:00 | terrys | kergothlunch: LOL ! Is it just me or does putting the OPIE "existance" announcement out on the OPIE list strike anyone else as somewhat.. hmmm.. circular :) All in the interest of coverage I guess... |
| 19:36:22 | bipolar | terrys: hehe |
| 19:38:26 | | konqueror is at http://bolug.uni-bonn.de/files/konq-e/ |
| 19:38:26 | treke | ibot konqueror? |
| 20:01:45 | bipolar | kergoth: Opie needs a splash screen to fill in the time between when the qpe script is started and it actualy comes up. |
| 20:12:20 | Morn | hi Bipolar |
| 20:12:28 | Morn | I think I will try opie out |
| 20:13:17 | bipolar | Morn: you better. :) |
| 20:13:41 | Morn | gets pressured into a software change :-) |
| 20:36:06 | kergoth | bipolar: good idea. sharp did that in their latest rom |
| 20:36:17 | kergoth | terrys: lol.. didnt think about that :-) |
| 20:49:14 | bipolar | finaly gets his persistent ram FS> |
| 20:50:22 | kergoth | nice. |
| 20:56:03 | bipolar | kergoth: no jffs2 though. |
| 20:56:58 | kergoth | true. for some reason, bzflag recommended against use of jffs2 on the mtdram driver .. i dont recall why though |
| 20:58:09 | bipolar | we need a compressed block fs then. a 1.5/1 compresson is always good. :) |
| 20:58:24 | kergoth | yup |
| 21:00:08 | bipolar | time for me to head home. |
| 21:00:15 | bipolar | later all! |
| 21:00:24 | bipolar_away | is away: I'm not here... Really.... |
| 21:01:51 | mark_ | is back |
| 21:02:46 | mark_ | kergoth: jperlow-sharp - is this jason? |
| 21:03:17 | kergoth | mark_: yes. he's been idle all day though. hes working, i think |
| 21:03:41 | mark_ | kergoth: hehe, I'll let him work - try and get him at a good moment :) |
| 21:04:00 | kergoth | good idea |
| 21:04:07 | kergoth | im gonna check out that new arch revision system |
| 21:04:09 | kergoth | it looks nifty |
| 21:04:13 | mark_ | is ipkg? |
| 21:04:34 | kergoth | hm? its like cvs |
| 21:04:39 | mark_ | oh right |
| 21:04:43 | mark_ | sorry, tired |
| 21:04:46 | kergoth | only it looks niftier |
| 21:04:47 | kergoth | hehe |
| 21:04:48 | kergoth | np |
| 21:04:54 | kergoth | what time is it there? |
| 21:05:15 | mark_ | erm, 9:15pm, :) |
| 21:05:25 | mark_ | i was woken at 3am last night by my modem autoredialing :) |
| 21:05:42 | kergoth | eh damn |
| 21:06:03 | mark_ | these icons, which ones deserve to go in inline/ do you think? |
| 21:06:25 | kergoth | hm |
| 21:06:34 | kergoth | good question |
| 21:06:36 | kergoth | how many are there? |
| 21:06:44 | mark_ | checks |
| 21:08:08 | mark_ | about 40 |
| 21:08:33 | mark_ | but that only comes to 70k |
| 21:11:27 | kergoth | hmm. |
| 21:12:00 | mark_ | any idea what performance gain we really get |
| 21:12:18 | kergoth | not off hand. |
| 21:12:45 | kergoth | the question is, is it worth inlining them, or not. basically we're establishing a new policy here for how images are to be dealt with. we should document this once we've decided. |
| 21:13:17 | mark_ | yes, that is the question :) |
| 21:14:50 | mark_ | grrr, its not an easy one |
| 21:14:53 | kergoth | hmm. wonder if there's an easy means for us to benchmark the performance diff |
| 21:14:56 | kergoth | no, its certainly not |
| 21:15:09 | mark_ | but basically |
| 21:15:21 | mark_ | only things shipped with the core of opie can have their images inlined |
| 21:15:28 | kergoth | yep |
| 21:16:26 | mark_ | i can't think of an easy way to benchmark - hmm, or can I |
| 21:16:38 | kergoth | so do we inline every image that is to be included with the core of opie? dare we? |
| 21:16:40 | kergoth | hehe |
| 21:16:46 | mark_ | no |
| 21:16:50 | mark_ | :) |
| 21:17:05 | kergoth | well given that, how do we determine what deserves inlining and what not? |
| 21:17:05 | mark_ | inline all the pics of snake that most people are never gonna install and shove up the size of the library? |
| 21:17:10 | kergoth | point taken |
| 21:17:32 | mark_ | no apps get their pics inlined - only the environment? |
| 21:17:42 | mark_ | (just shoving out thoughts) |
| 21:18:21 | kergoth | was thinking that myself, but i wish we knew exactly what the performance was that we're giving up |
| 21:19:22 | kergoth | or should we inline all pics which will be used as icons in the launcher, but nothing else? |
| 21:23:18 | mark_ | the launcher? as in the start menu thing or the whole environemnt (applications, documents, settings)? |
| 21:25:56 | kergoth | the launcher consists of the apps docs settings application launcher env |
| 21:26:21 | mark_ | right |
| 21:26:26 | mark_ | yeh, thats what my vote goes for |
| 21:26:51 | mark_ | (although that does mean putting all icons in inline/) |
| 21:27:25 | kergoth | well, yeah all the icons for core apps. |
| 21:27:53 | mark_ | but, if pps install other apps with their icons not inlined, is that just going to take away that performance benefit completely? |
| 21:29:08 | kergoth | hm, i wouldnt say that. it will hurt us some, but not enough to completely take away the benefit, imho |
| 21:29:29 | kergoth | i dunno, frankly this isnt a huge deal. whichever way we go we probably wont notice the diff :-) |
| 21:29:42 | mark_ | benchmarks would be handy |
| 21:30:06 | mark_ | right - i'm bored of trying to decide - we inline everything for the core apps that go in the launcher |
| 21:30:40 | kergoth | the icons anyway. we keep app specific sprites and shit in their own subdirs |
| 21:30:42 | kergoth | go for it |
| 21:31:48 | mark_ | if anyone knows of any reason why this event should not take place, please speak now or forever your peace |
| 21:32:22 | mark_ | forever hold* |
| 21:36:00 | mark_ | the packing of it also needs to be sorted out - just putting the whole pics/ dir in it is stupid |
| 21:37:41 | mark_ | oh, can we please get rid of this stupid tux thing |
| 21:37:53 | kergoth | lol.. |
| 21:37:57 | kergoth | i hate that thing |
| 21:38:06 | mark_ | it is the most pointless thing I have ever seen in my life |
| 21:38:18 | kergoth | we should package each apps pics with it, and opie-pics should only contain pics/icons, imho |
| 21:38:30 | mark_ | yep |
| 21:38:33 | mark_ | thats whats happening |
| 21:38:52 | kergoth | good good |
| 21:39:14 | mark_ | there is a whole lot of random stuff in there though |
| 21:39:21 | mark_ | open it up in konqueror and have a look :) |
| 21:45:23 | mark_ | kergoth: i'm gonna need some help working out what belongs where here........ |
| 21:45:34 | kergoth | k, ill take a look\ |
| 21:45:58 | mark_ | konqueror is v usefull, if you have the grpahical previews enabled |
| 21:46:22 | kergoth | yea ill try it when i get done checking out opie |
| 21:46:29 | mark_ | cheers |
| 21:46:31 | kergoth | didnt have opie on this box, had it on a remote devel box |
| 21:46:33 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:46:39 | mark_ | lol |
| 21:47:16 | mark_ | should the pics for an app go inside a pics/ dir in their source dir, so they are seperate from the source files do you think? |
| 21:47:59 | kergoth | I would think so. |
| 21:48:05 | mark_ | okay |
| 21:48:07 | kergoth | that would improve cleanliness, imho |
| 21:48:08 | mark_ | now i'm in a futher dilema |
| 21:48:09 | mark_ | :) |
| 21:48:13 | mark_ | in mine too |
| 21:48:29 | mark_ | some things (like the back, forward arrows) are really pretty usefull to have available to all apps |
| 21:48:33 | kergoth | waits patiently for opie to co |
| 21:49:13 | kergoth | yes, so do we keep those in pics/icons/ and a part of the opie-pics package? |
| 21:49:44 | mark_ | well if we are doing that we might as well inline them |
| 21:50:13 | kergoth | so do we inline every non app specific imagee? |
| 21:50:34 | mark_ | notes that this is ridiculously complex |
| 21:50:42 | kergoth | lol |
| 21:50:46 | kergoth | indeed |
| 21:50:51 | kergoth | far more so than it should be |
| 21:51:24 | mark_ | yes, i suppose we _do_ inline anything we think is gonna be usefull all over the place |
| 21:51:37 | mark_ | if they're in qpe-pics, they might as well be inlined imo |
| 21:51:57 | mark_ | i see no point in doing otherwise, unless memory consumption is an issue |
| 21:52:08 | kergoth | yeah. course we'll need to make developers aware of just what pics are available inlined, since, for example, they couldnt look in the pics/ dir in the sdk to see whats available |
| 21:52:43 | mark_ | is memory consumption an issue? |
| 21:53:29 | kergoth | memory consumption is always an issue. the question is, how large an issue. will inline images be retained in memory, or loaded from libqpe when needed? |
| 21:53:47 | mark_ | well I know its an issue, is it gonna be affected? |
| 21:54:01 | mark_ | hehe, you beat me to it :) |
| 21:54:04 | kergoth | hehe |
| 21:54:32 | kergoth | hmm |
| 21:54:52 | mark_ | i have no idea about that |
| 21:55:43 | kergoth | lets just do it. inline everything thats generally useful and not app specific for the moment, we can alter policy easier later on once the pics/ dir is cleaned up a bit, if need be |
| 21:56:40 | mark_ | okay |
| 21:57:16 | kergoth | we're going to need an Opie Policy Manual ala debian's, you know |
| 21:57:17 | kergoth | :-) |
| 21:57:25 | mark_ | lol, yes. i believe you now :) |
| 21:58:11 | mark_ | now we need to decide what counts as usefull else where and what doesnt :) |
| 21:58:48 | kergoth | precisely. we already determined one .. icons used in the app launcher are defined as generally useful. everything else we either need to define standards around, or decide on a case by case basis |
| 22:00:15 | mark_ | case by case - its gonna be not to bad - some stuff is just obvious - next, back, up, down, stop, edit, new etc etc, along with bold/italic/underlined etc |
| 22:00:48 | kergoth | yep. we can do case by case for now. |
| 22:00:57 | mark_ | doc types? also usefull? |
| 22:01:08 | mark_ | thinks yes |
| 22:01:41 | kergoth | doc types? such as? |
| 22:02:07 | mark_ | the icon that shows its a music file, an unknown type etc. |
| 22:02:29 | mark_ | we have even have icons for excel/powerpoint/word :) |
| 22:02:59 | kergoth | ah yes, those will be shown as icons in the launcher, so should be inlined |
| 22:03:21 | mark_ | excel/powerpoint? ytf are we gonna need those? |
| 22:03:39 | mark_ | there are so many useless pics here :) |
| 22:03:49 | mark_ | kergoth: sorry, i'm appearing rude again, i'm not meaning to be |
| 22:03:54 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:03:55 | kergoth | no prob |
| 22:04:15 | kergoth | excel/powerpoint will eventually be useful, but perhaps the excel/powerpoint capable app should supply the doc icons? |
| 22:04:22 | mark_ | precisely |
| 22:04:31 | mark_ | so lets take them out, and shove them where? |
| 22:04:40 | kergoth | ummm |
| 22:04:54 | kergoth | pics/unused? |
| 22:04:56 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:05:10 | mark_ | lol. yeh, coz opie-pics is gonna be a gonner by sunday |
| 22:05:27 | mark_ | :) - if everything is inlined, we dont need it |
| 22:05:31 | kergoth | yup |
| 22:05:55 | kergoth | create a pics/unused. stuff unused pics there in case we need them at some point or decide to change policy |
| 22:06:05 | kergoth | i'm going to start writing this shit up |
| 22:06:16 | kergoth | in case someone in the future dares to venture into pics/ |
| 22:06:17 | kergoth | :-) |
| 22:06:37 | mark_ | hehe |
| 22:07:42 | kergoth | brb |
| 22:09:31 | mark_ | ok |
| 22:17:35 | kergoth | k |
| 22:17:37 | kergoth | hows it lookin? |
| 22:20:18 | zecke | I need a mail icon ;) |
| 22:20:46 | mark_ | kergoth: its going suprisingly okay |
| 22:20:55 | mark_ | kergoth: what about duplicate icons |
| 22:20:59 | kergoth | mark_: excellent. hmmm |
| 22:21:02 | kergoth | mark_: such as? |
| 22:22:08 | mark_ | kergoth: hang on, found some |
| 22:22:18 | mark_ | done and enter.png for example |
| 22:24:55 | kergoth | gah my only concern here is application compatibility with qtopia |
| 22:25:04 | mark_ | mine also |
| 22:25:17 | kergoth | since qtopia will have all these.. for dupes, symlink one to the other |
| 22:25:24 | mark_ | there is no point symlinking |
| 22:25:31 | mark_ | as they are going into a .h file :) |
| 22:25:39 | mark_ | and gonna be exacltly duplicated in there |
| 22:26:15 | kergoth | hmm |
| 22:26:18 | kergoth | well weve got a prob then |
| 22:26:27 | mark_ | yep |
| 22:26:29 | kergoth | cuz what happens if an app tries to use 'done', but we blew awawy 'done'? |
| 22:26:30 | mark_ | bloody TT |
| 22:26:32 | kergoth | yep |
| 22:26:34 | mark_ | exactly |
| 22:26:35 | kergoth | hmm |
| 22:26:39 | mark_ | grrrrrrrr |
| 22:26:45 | kergoth | i wonder... |
| 22:26:57 | kergoth | the symlink could be a simple #define in the .h from one to the other |
| 22:27:05 | kergoth | if we make the code that stuffs them into the .h more intelligent.. |
| 22:27:09 | mark_ | yes |
| 22:27:11 | kergoth | make it handle symlinks sanely |
| 22:27:12 | mark_ | thats qembed I think |
| 22:27:16 | kergoth | then we just symlink it |
| 22:27:26 | kergoth | and it'll create the #define rather than inlining both |
| 22:27:37 | kergoth | i wonder if that would work |
| 22:27:40 | kergoth | wades into the code |
| 22:30:30 | mark_ | have fun there |
| 22:30:33 | mark_ | wades into the docs |
| 22:31:16 | mark_ | finds nothing |
| 22:32:25 | kergoth | yep it just calls qembed from library/mkinlinepics |
| 22:33:01 | mark_ | oh right, i thought you meant the qembed code |
| 22:33:03 | kergoth | we should create a test app that uses .. done for example, but delete done from the inlinepics_p.h and #define it.. rebuild libqpe and confirm that it worked |
| 22:33:11 | kergoth | mark_: no, i'm about to enter there |
| 22:33:12 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:33:20 | mark_ | my bet is that it doesnt deal with them nicely |
| 22:34:55 | mark_ | if commercial devels have relied on stuff being in pics/ though (thinking about other cases), and we dont earmark them as usefull.......... |
| 22:35:12 | kergoth | thatd be stupid of them |
| 22:35:16 | kergoth | they should use Resource::LoadImage |
| 22:35:30 | kergoth | which would handle using the pics regardless of whether they're inlined or not |
| 22:35:44 | mark_ | yes yes, I know, but if we have no opie-pics, they may not be included at al |
| 22:36:17 | kergoth | yeah, some of the ones we move to unused/ could break compatibility |
| 22:36:20 | kergoth | growls |
| 22:36:43 | mark_ | grrr, if only tt had done this properly in the first place |
| 22:36:48 | kergoth | exactly. |
| 22:37:06 | mark_ | tell them off from me when you next have a conf call :) |
| 22:37:34 | kergoth | lol.. we could create an 'invalid' icon in pics/inline/, and symlink any that we move to unused to invalid.. lol.. apps would have funny invalid icons if they were built for qtopia |
| 22:39:46 | mark_ | gah, but if symlinks in inline/. dont work.......... |
| 22:40:03 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:40:04 | kergoth | argh |
| 22:40:27 | kergoth | dont you wish we were just hired by TT and could work on qtopia directly? |
| 22:40:28 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:40:40 | kergoth | oh well, we'll figure this out |
| 22:40:40 | mark_ | hehe |
| 22:40:40 | kergoth | hmm |
| 22:40:50 | mark_ | often has dreams of being hired by TT |
| 22:41:03 | ljp_laptop | heh I just gpt turned dow by TT.. not good enoug, I guess |
| 22:41:45 | ljp_laptop | mark: they're hiring |
| 22:41:48 | mark_ | ljp_laptop: awww :) |
| 22:42:04 | ljp_laptop | but you have to move to Oslo |
| 22:42:31 | mark_ | ljp_laptop: i am no where near skilled enough, and have a little something called school/degree to worry about :) |
| 22:42:55 | kergoth | heh. i've got no degree, and not enough qt and gui programming exp |
| 22:43:09 | ljp_laptop | heh.. I think I couldn't get a work visa there, cause I have no "real " "CV".. |
| 22:43:34 | ljp_laptop | I had an interview with opera software |
| 22:43:40 | ljp_laptop | last year |
| 22:43:55 | mark_ | doesn't even have a v impressive online cv |
| 22:44:23 | ljp_laptop | oh, well. I'd rather be writing stuff I want to work on |
| 22:44:42 | mark_ | but then, i've only beed doing OSS coding for 5 months or somethingn |
| 22:45:07 | ljp_laptop | maybe they just don't want to pay me, and know they'll be getting free code from me.. |
| 22:45:15 | mark_ | hehe |
| 22:45:30 | ljp_laptop | oh well.. a comment I made to them is on their new brochure,, |
| 22:45:41 | mark_ | whats that? |
| 22:46:16 | ljp_laptop | I said, "Trolltech, if you were a woman, I'd, I'd, why, I'd take you out for dinner and a movie" |
| 22:46:25 | mark_ | hrhr |
| 22:46:40 | ljp_laptop | they put it right in the middle, the first thing you look at when you open up the flaps |
| 22:46:45 | mark_ | lol |
| 22:46:50 | mark_ | hehehe |
| 22:47:04 | ljp_laptop | I'm famous, says Aron.. |
| 22:47:16 | mark_ | i need to head off for bed |
| 22:47:29 | mark_ | kergoth: hope you have a nice brainwave about this pics business :) |
| 22:47:55 | kergoth | mark_: I'll have the beginnings of a policy manual for review tomorrow :-P |
| 22:48:03 | ljp_laptop | later.. I gotto go finish my re-insta-frickin-stall |
| 22:48:05 | mark_ | kergoth: excellent |
| 22:48:12 | kergoth | ljp_laptop: have fun |
| 22:48:16 | ljp_laptop | heh |
| 22:48:18 | kergoth | mark_: sleep well. ttyl |
| 22:48:35 | mark_ | remembers to kill wvdial tonight |
| 23:59:49 | treke | tux_mike : er never mind. I made a toolbar :) |