| 00:00.45 | *** join/#openmoko NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD2953C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:42.24 | *** join/#openmoko NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD2953C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:01.34 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|office (~Mickey@business-092-079-168-007.static.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:25.31 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree` (~Openfreer@116.228.88.131) |
| 01:29.09 | *** join/#openmoko AndroUser2 (~androirc@74.198.9.22) |
| 02:02.13 | *** join/#openmoko brolin_empey_ (~quassel@66.199.140.123) |
| 02:03.10 | *** join/#openmoko flack-Z (~mamhovelk@95.80.218.52) |
| 02:03.55 | *** join/#openmoko Wonka_ (produziert@chaos.in-kiel.de) |
| 02:03.55 | *** join/#openmoko Wonka_ (produziert@madwifi/support/wonka) |
| 02:04.04 | *** join/#openmoko toer (~tore@179.81-166-86.customer.lyse.net) |
| 02:04.07 | *** join/#openmoko Elleo_ (~Elleo@mikeasoft.com) |
| 03:36.45 | *** join/#openmoko waraqa (~user@94.59.27.9) |
| 03:47.01 | *** join/#openmoko waraqa1 (~user@94.59.106.89) |
| 03:48.26 | *** join/#openmoko krayon (~krayon@pdpc/supporter/28for7/krayon) |
| 03:49.36 | *** join/#openmoko waraqa (~user@auh-as51099.alshamil.net.ae) |
| 04:36.01 | *** join/#openmoko DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 05:43.35 | *** join/#openmoko aloril (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:11.18 | *** join/#openmoko playya__ (~playya@unaffiliated/playya) |
| 06:34.08 | *** join/#openmoko radekp (~radek@82.113.39.213) |
| 06:47.55 | *** join/#openmoko kwek (~kwek@112.Red-88-17-175.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 06:51.51 | *** join/#openmoko NurIch_ (~NurIch_@137.226.154.136) |
| 07:03.12 | *** join/#openmoko waraqa (~user@94.59.20.58) |
| 07:10.01 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (~geaaru@host170-152-static.43-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 07:23.58 | *** join/#openmoko Q-Master (~qmaster@2.94.203.110) |
| 07:30.55 | *** join/#openmoko vilpan (~vilius@88-222-157-136.meganet.lt) |
| 07:36.41 | *** part/#openmoko waraqa (~user@94.59.20.58) |
| 08:10.18 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (~geaaru@host170-152-static.43-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:14.35 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (~geaaru@host170-152-static.43-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:30.02 | *** join/#openmoko valos (~valos@coquelicot-a.easter-eggs.com) |
| 08:30.49 | Wonka | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9-00/ *want* |
| 08:35.47 | *** join/#openmoko pabs3 (~pabs@d122-104-118-227.per9.wa.optusnet.com.au) |
| 08:37.57 | *** join/#openmoko Gabrys (~Gabrys@cxp210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 08:42.00 | *** join/#openmoko yanu (~yanu@178-117-229-179.access.telenet.be) |
| 08:42.00 | *** join/#openmoko yanu (~yanu@lugwv/member/yanu) |
| 08:49.52 | Kamping_Kaiser | 19 days standby? wow |
| 08:51.01 | pabs3 | ? |
| 08:51.18 | Wonka | 10:30:49 < Wonka> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/N9-00/ *want* |
| 08:51.25 | Wonka | that's the context :) |
| 08:52.41 | pabs3 | ah, yep, #maemo and #meego have been buzzing |
| 08:56.46 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 09:48.27 | *** join/#openmoko dos1 (~dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 09:53.01 | *** part/#openmoko krayon (~krayon@pdpc/supporter/28for7/krayon) |
| 10:03.46 | *** join/#openmoko NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD28345.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:13.36 | *** join/#openmoko leavittx (~leavittx@cl-534.mbx-01.si.sixxs.net) |
| 10:19.01 | *** join/#openmoko `antonio` (~antonio@nat-sta-smtc2.tvu.ac.uk) |
| 10:38.32 | vilpan | Wonka: what interests me most in linux-based phones is whether you get the freedom you have with most linux distros, that is access to a huge package repository via a package manager, which basically means unlimited choices for free software. Or is it the standard Nokia way, which lately, becomes more and more like the Apple way: a centralized store, buy commercial apps, lengthy EULAs, etc. |
| 10:38.32 | vilpan | Do you have any informative sources on how this aspect looks on MeeGO? :) |
| 10:39.10 | Wonka | not at all |
| 10:39.24 | Wonka | but wasn't meego supposed to be a debian derivative? |
| 10:40.56 | *** join/#openmoko jivs (~jivs@nat-sta-smtc2.tvu.ac.uk) |
| 10:41.44 | vilpan | Wonka: iirc, maemo was, meego should be based on something else, don't recall exactly |
| 10:46.53 | Kamping_Kaiser | iirc (from my reading of pres releases at the time), meego was meant to be a merger of maemo and intels mobile platform (moblin? something else?) |
| 11:05.20 | *** join/#openmoko Gabrys (~Gabrys@cxp210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 11:08.45 | *** join/#openmoko aloril (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:16.54 | *** join/#openmoko `antonio` (~antonio@nat-sta-smtc2.tvu.ac.uk) |
| 11:24.13 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (~spydon@90-227-32-130-no42.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 11:26.00 | vilpan | Kamping_Kaiser: correct, according to wikipedia. :) Thought, I recall some comments from unhappy maemo devs that the result of the merger was becoming too much Fedora and they were unhappy with shift from Debian. Don't have any practical experience with any of the devices, though, so can't tell how it feels for sure :) |
| 11:27.29 | pabs3 | the N9/Harmattan stuff seems to use debs: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/z/zlib/ |
| 11:27.44 | pabs3 | but I guess the UI software is all MeeGo stuff |
| 11:28.19 | Sazius | as far as I understand N9 will be MeeGo + Nokias proprietary UI, you can install a Terminal app and add any repositories and install what you want there... |
| 11:28.22 | Kamping_Kaiser | pabs3: interesting... i'm sure rpm was meant to be meegos base (as it was for moblin, and the reason i stopped wathing them) |
| 11:28.54 | Kamping_Kaiser | vilpan: the switch to meego/rpm (which i thought was happening....) was one of the two main reasons i didn't end up with an n900 |
| 11:29.17 | Sazius | some info about that: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=22819#post22819 |
| 11:29.30 | Kamping_Kaiser | Sazius: ta |
| 11:29.59 | vilpan | Kamping_Kaiser: I thought, n900 was still maemo, that is still Debian with apt-get goodness :/ |
| 11:30.35 | Kamping_Kaiser | vilpan: dunno what the current ones ship with - i stopped payiing attention :/ |
| 11:32.15 | pabs3 | yeah, N900 was Maemo 5 |
| 11:32.44 | pabs3 | N9 is this MeeGo 1.2/Harmattan/Maemo 6 thing |
| 11:33.13 | pabs3 | with lotsa non-free bits: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/non-free/ |
| 11:33.46 | Kamping_Kaiser | wonder if it still needs proprietary software to charge |
| 11:34.31 | pabs3 | seems so: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/non-free/b/bme/ |
| 11:34.48 | Sazius | this blog post claims that the MeeGo Community Edition guys will start to work on the N9: http://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-linux-and-qt/ |
| 11:35.20 | Kamping_Kaiser | disappointing |
| 11:35.32 | Sazius | that it is "real" MeeGo without Nokias proprietary UI, don't know about drivers and firmwares though |
| 11:35.35 | Kamping_Kaiser | hopefully one day they come to their senses |
| 11:35.55 | pabs3 | Kamping_Kaiser: in any case the PowerVR drivers are going to be non-free |
| 11:36.38 | pabs3 | wonders if glamo 3D ever got worked on |
| 11:37.20 | Kamping_Kaiser | mmm |
| 11:41.13 | Sazius | why is something like libvorbisidec in non-free in harmattan repo? it's in main in Debian... |
| 11:41.35 | vilpan | so what about openmoko? Is suitable for actual every day use by casual users? Or will it ever be? Because openmoko is the closest match to the concept of a "free phone" as I see it |
| 11:41.51 | Sazius | and libjpeg, etc... |
| 11:47.01 | Kamping_Kaiser | hm, Sazius 's link suggests meego is rpm, and just harmattan is debs |
| 11:47.18 | Sazius | yes, this is my impression as well |
| 11:47.36 | Sazius | Nokia got some kind of special permission to still call it "MeeGo" :) |
| 11:49.05 | pabs3 | Sazius: maybe they added some patented stuff? or maybe its a dumb mistake |
| 11:50.13 | Sazius | well patented stuff isn't non-free in copyright-sense :) |
| 11:50.47 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 11:52.08 | Sazius | but yeah strange, but anyway the whole UI that is shipped with N9 and associated code is entirely proprietary |
| 11:53.39 | *** join/#openmoko Elleo (~Elleo@libre.fm/hacker/elleo) |
| 11:53.54 | *** join/#openmoko oln (~oln@ws43177.studby.hig.no) |
| 12:43.44 | *** join/#openmoko aloril (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:51.28 | *** join/#openmoko leavittx (~leavittx@cl-534.mbx-01.si.sixxs.net) |
| 12:57.08 | *** join/#openmoko `antonio` (~antonio@nat-sta-smtc2.tvu.ac.uk) |
| 13:06.13 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree^ (~Openfree`@58.37.74.22) |
| 13:28.18 | *** join/#openmoko `antonio` (~antonio@nat-sta-smtc2.tvu.ac.uk) |
| 13:35.02 | *** join/#openmoko methril (~methril@189.27.135.35.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 13:42.18 | *** join/#openmoko gcwilson (~gcwilson@cpe-70-112-21-183.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 13:53.48 | *** join/#openmoko methril (~methril@189.27.128.155.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 14:09.25 | *** join/#openmoko Gabrys (~Gabrys@host-89-229-43-220.torun.mm.pl) |
| 14:09.59 | *** join/#openmoko `antonio` (~antonio@nat-sta-smtc2.tvu.ac.uk) |
| 14:20.53 | *** join/#openmoko polz (~polz@2001:1470:fffd:202c:4261:86ff:fe87:5051) |
| 14:38.01 | *** join/#openmoko oln (~oln@ws43177.studby.hig.no) |
| 14:41.40 | *** join/#openmoko delx (~nfr@2001:a60:f0e6:0:beae:c5ff:fee0:651e) |
| 14:47.54 | *** join/#openmoko polz (~polz@2001:1470:fffd:202c:4261:86ff:fe87:5051) |
| 14:48.13 | *** join/#openmoko toer (~tore@179.81-166-86.customer.lyse.net) |
| 14:57.31 | *** join/#openmoko Gabrys (~Gabrys@host-89-229-43-220.torun.mm.pl) |
| 15:02.55 | *** join/#openmoko delx (~nfr@2001:a60:f0e6:0:beae:c5ff:fee0:651e) |
| 15:06.58 | *** join/#openmoko [Rui] (~Rui@a85-138-11-5.cpe.netcabo.pt) |
| 15:21.12 | DocScrutinizer | hah, you already spotted N9 |
| 15:24.36 | DocScrutinizer | Kamping_Kaiser: N9 is still using bme for charging |
| 15:24.59 | DocScrutinizer | aah, pabs3 answered that |
| 15:27.26 | DocScrutinizer | Kamping_Kaiser: N9 has a chimera called meego-harmattan that's actually mostly maemo still, and unrelated to the work of #meego-arm group |
| 15:27.53 | DocScrutinizer | meego is RPM, meego-harmattan probably deb |
| 15:28.56 | DocScrutinizer | pabs3: (vorbis) probably directly exploits DSP to playback audio |
| 15:36.11 | Sazius | DocScrutinizer: in my understanding harmattan has MeeGo API, so you can make applications for MeeGo in general and should work on N9 as well |
| 15:36.28 | Sazius | in Qt I suppose |
| 15:36.34 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 15:37.20 | DocScrutinizer | you allegedly can code trans-platform for this but-ugly UI |
| 15:41.03 | *** part/#openmoko nullix (~philippe@217.108.116.29) |
| 15:42.37 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (~fsteinel@fedora/fsteinel) |
| 15:51.44 | *** join/#openmoko jluis (~jluis@217.Red-79-154-207.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 16:00.18 | *** join/#openmoko pespin (~pespin@168.pool85-50-77.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 16:04.19 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (~fsteinel@fedora/fsteinel) |
| 16:12.05 | pabs3 | DocScrutinizer: what about libjpeg? http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/non-free/libj/libjpeg6b/ |
| 16:34.19 | DocScrutinizer | no idea really |
| 16:34.29 | DocScrutinizer | is this a blob? |
| 16:35.14 | DocScrutinizer | wasn't jpeg tainted by patents? |
| 16:35.24 | pabs3 | seems to be, there doesn't look to be any sources there |
| 16:35.38 | pabs3 | recently? wouldn't have thought so |
| 16:35.57 | DocScrutinizer | isn't that patent issue the reason why linux desktops went png for icons? |
| 16:36.50 | pabs3 | maybe you are thinking of gif? |
| 16:37.04 | pabs3 | but yeah, there seem to be some patent rumblings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG#Patent_issues |
| 16:37.21 | pabs3 | never heard of them being a concern though |
| 16:45.15 | Sazius | libjpeg is in main e.g. i Debian, and they are pretty strict with such issues |
| 16:45.33 | Sazius | i.e. not in non-free |
| 16:45.39 | pabs3 | yeah, but not in harmattan it seems |
| 16:45.52 | Sazius | yeah, which is strange |
| 16:45.58 | Sazius | perhaps a mistake? |
| 16:46.29 | pabs3 | perhaps. maybe it passes off to hardware decoding like DocScrutinizer suggested for the vorbis lib |
| 16:47.32 | Sazius | that sounds like a likely explanation |
| 16:50.19 | *** join/#openmoko aloril (~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 16:55.04 | DocScrutinizer | perhaps another hw optimization? |
| 16:55.46 | DocScrutinizer | anyway I wonder how they avoided GPL violations then |
| 16:56.04 | DocScrutinizer | pabs3: exactly |
| 17:05.52 | *** part/#openmoko vilpan (~vilius@88-222-157-136.meganet.lt) |
| 17:08.22 | Sazius | it seems that both libjpeg and libvorbis are BSD-type licenses, not GPL (from very quick cursory web search) |
| 17:23.26 | *** join/#openmoko onen|openBmap (~quassel@vbo91-1-89-87-201-85.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 17:27.31 | *** join/#openmoko Bryanstein (~Bryanstei@shellium/admin/bryanstein) |
| 17:37.56 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (~thomas@pD9E16750.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:41.48 | *** join/#openmoko batchy (~batchy@81-64-249-38.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 17:51.33 | *** join/#openmoko Micki (~mickiirss@178-33-49-99.kimsufi.com) |
| 17:54.29 | *** join/#openmoko Scooty (d5f142aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.241.66.170) |
| 17:54.33 | *** part/#openmoko Scooty (d5f142aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.241.66.170) |
| 17:54.44 | *** join/#openmoko Scooty (d5f142aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.241.66.170) |
| 17:54.49 | *** part/#openmoko Scooty (d5f142aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.241.66.170) |
| 17:56.54 | *** join/#openmoko In (d5f142aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.241.66.170) |
| 17:59.19 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (~user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 18:00.47 | *** part/#openmoko Micki (~mickiirss@178-33-49-99.kimsufi.com) |
| 18:26.30 | *** join/#openmoko Kame2 (~manuel@port-92-196-117-60.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 18:30.13 | *** join/#openmoko TomaszD (~tom@dynamic-78-8-19-182.ssp.dialog.net.pl) |
| 18:30.13 | *** join/#openmoko TomaszD (~tom@Maemo/community/contributor/TomaszD) |
| 18:47.32 | *** join/#openmoko gcwilson (~gcwilson@cpe-70-112-21-183.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 18:59.18 | *** join/#openmoko NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD28345.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:00.05 | *** join/#openmoko jluis (~jluis@2001:5c0:1000:b::945b) |
| 19:02.17 | *** join/#openmoko Orias_Korva (~atilla@d515364DE.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:14.37 | *** join/#openmoko jivs (~jivs@5ad2b6fd.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:19.34 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (~fsteinel@fedora/fsteinel) |
| 19:26.11 | *** join/#openmoko jluis (~jluis@2001:c08:3700:ffff::1d:f055) |
| 19:37.16 | *** join/#openmoko leavittx (~leavittx@cl-534.mbx-01.si.sixxs.net) |
| 19:38.45 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (~thomas@pD9E16750.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:42.46 | *** join/#openmoko jivs (~jivs@5ad2b6fd.bb.sky.com) |
| 19:44.18 | *** join/#openmoko Psi (~ben@ip-58-28-158-238.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 19:56.28 | *** join/#openmoko gcwilson (~gcwilson@cpe-70-112-21-183.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 20:02.24 | *** join/#openmoko kirun (~kirun@78-86-154-194.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 20:21.21 | *** join/#openmoko valos (~valos@mar92-6-82-227-150-198.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:38.47 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (~geaaru@95.236.213.97) |
| 20:46.42 | *** join/#openmoko jivs (~jivs@5ad2b6fd.bb.sky.com) |
| 20:58.44 | *** join/#openmoko mrmoku|i` (~mrmoku@ppp-188-174-79-173.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 21:16.38 | *** join/#openmoko jivs (~jivs@nat66.mia.three.co.uk) |
| 21:48.14 | *** join/#openmoko chomwitt (~chomwitt@ppp-94-66-170-109.home.otenet.gr) |
| 21:52.37 | *** join/#openmoko jluis (~jluis@2001:c08:3700:ffff::1e:8138) |
| 21:54.30 | *** join/#openmoko Fox_Muldr (quakeman@frnk-5f741ad1.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 22:34.44 | *** join/#openmoko NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD28345.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:10.21 | *** join/#openmoko NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD28345.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:23.52 | Kamping_Kaiser | DocScrutinizer: thanks for the added background :) |
| 23:54.49 | *** join/#openmoko Morphous_ (jan@f049161032.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:59.09 | *** join/#openmoko NIN101 (~NIN101@p5DD28345.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |