| 00:01.07 | Wonka | mwester: frameworkd is now higher prioritized than anything but udev, but still several chars per minute are lost. |
| 00:01.50 | quatrox | got kernel panic! Thinks that Andy's branch is not _that_ stable.... will try to figure out why |
| 00:02.24 | lindi- | quatrox: can you see the panic message? |
| 00:02.52 | quatrox | now I rebooted... will check again |
| 00:03.00 | abatrour | finally got debian running |
| 00:04.52 | mwester | Wonka: I'm not convinced that frameworkd actually reads the serial port. |
| 00:04.55 | *** join/#openmoko Tig| (n=tigger@82.153.215.237) |
| 00:05.16 | Wonka | mwester: it is the only process "lsof /dev/ttySAC1" lists... |
| 00:05.31 | mwester | That's unfortunate then. :( |
| 00:05.46 | mwester | That's what (IMO) something like gpsd is supposed to do. |
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| 00:06.18 | Wonka | mwester: one of frameworkd's subsystems is named "ogpsd" and responsible for gps daemon stuff |
| 00:07.59 | mwester | Open a bug report on the fso bug tracker, I guess. |
| 00:09.07 | quatrox | lindi-: I cannot reproduce it, but it printed something with init_ something and then exit |
| 00:09.11 | Wonka | *sigh* sometimes, zhone eats about 75% CPU, frameworkd another 20%, rest distributed about some other processes - and i'd sure like to know what they are doing then... can't take that much to draw a little information about GPS o.O |
| 00:09.56 | abatrour | ok i got debian installed, now how do i get the gnome interface? |
| 00:09.57 | rooly | quatrox: are you having trouble with python? |
| 00:10.06 | abatrour | all i get is what i think is zphone |
| 00:11.24 | quatrox | suspending takes minutes... will try with the normal kernel |
| 00:14.05 | jc | on the overal gta02 schematic, the 'multimedia coprocessor' is the glamo ? |
| 00:14.11 | *** join/#openmoko vininim (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim) |
| 00:15.09 | jc | I guess it can't be anything else, dumb question |
| 00:17.07 | quatrox | rooly: not yet |
| 00:17.14 | quatrox | didn't learn python yet |
| 00:18.00 | CVirus | you can learn that in 10 minutes |
| 00:18.11 | quatrox | me? |
| 00:18.14 | quatrox | nope |
| 00:18.22 | jc | python is simple :) |
| 00:18.35 | quatrox | 2^10 minutes maybe |
| 00:19.30 | quatrox | but I didn't look at it yet... no time |
| 00:19.38 | jc | but I really hate the fact code indentation is used to create blocks |
| 00:19.52 | quatrox | why? |
| 00:19.58 | quatrox | what is wrong with that? |
| 00:20.14 | quatrox | do you also hate Makefiles? |
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| 00:20.26 | jc | well, for some reason, I find {} a little more readable |
| 00:20.27 | ronny | nothing except peoples expectations |
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| 00:20.37 | ronny | jc: its all just getting used to it |
| 00:20.40 | jc | quatrox as a matter of fact, I do |
| 00:20.51 | quatrox | ohh |
| 00:21.00 | ronny | just like lisp coder can actually deal with the parens |
| 00:21.01 | jc | I had to write a pretty complex makefile for a avr-gcc project with multiple libraries |
| 00:21.11 | jc | I don't like makefiles since then |
| 00:21.26 | jc | I think of theyr format as write-only |
| 00:21.26 | vininim | wow |
| 00:21.33 | quatrox | avr-gcc? I played with that too |
| 00:21.38 | vininim | 2-4 hours with GPS on in my pocket |
| 00:21.38 | ronny | makefiles are designed to hate them once you go complex |
| 00:21.42 | jc | its very fun :) |
| 00:21.45 | vininim | and batter went from 80% to 15% |
| 00:22.04 | vininim | and fr was hot |
| 00:22.12 | jc | but I guess makefiles get the work done |
| 00:22.17 | quatrox | jc: but now my STK500 is full of dust because I upgraded it (bought a freerunner) |
| 00:22.17 | jc | so does python |
| 00:22.25 | ronny | yup |
| 00:22.34 | ronny | and python is pretty readable :) |
| 00:22.44 | jc | its simple, it should be simple and its easy to learn and has lots of libraries to code complicated things simply |
| 00:22.49 | ronny | just view it as executable pseudocode |
| 00:22.52 | jc | certainly a lot more readable than perl |
| 00:22.59 | quatrox | perl is nice |
| 00:23.07 | jc | if you know what all the symbols mean |
| 00:23.56 | jc | python has simple syntax |
| 00:24.00 | jc | as does for example ruby |
| 00:24.01 | ronny | i conclude that all programming languages where an ascii art dollar sign is a sudoku solver are mean insane beasts |
| 00:24.03 | jc | or javascript |
| 00:24.15 | jc | lol |
| 00:24.18 | quatrox | grrr... |
| 00:24.22 | quatrox | but... |
| 00:24.31 | jc | I don't have anything against ascii art :D |
| 00:24.36 | quatrox | anyone tried whitespaces? |
| 00:24.37 | ronny | jc: i woldnt call ruby simple if i was you - it goes into the per direction |
| 00:24.49 | jc | I think python is too conservative in use of symbols |
| 00:24.50 | ronny | *perl |
| 00:25.22 | jc | ruby can be learned pretty fast |
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| 00:25.24 | jc | just as python |
| 00:25.29 | jc | and its neatly object oriented |
| 00:25.41 | ronny | jc: ruby has a damn free-form syntax |
| 00:26.03 | ronny | and they seem to view monkeypatching as the way to save the world |
| 00:26.05 | quatrox | thinks of http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/helloworld.html |
| 00:26.08 | jc | it does, but you don't have to learn 50 symbols to get the idea of a simple for-each loop |
| 00:26.21 | jc | monkeypatching ? |
| 00:26.45 | quatrox | monkeypatching? |
| 00:27.01 | quatrox | like in 'code monkey'? |
| 00:27.03 | quatrox | hmm |
| 00:27.11 | jc | code monkey is.. weird :) |
| 00:27.15 | jc | if you mean the series |
| 00:27.28 | ronny | jc: as in replacing methods of existing classes |
| 00:27.46 | ronny | they extend buildins or other classes |
| 00:27.59 | jc | ronny, oh that, yes I don't like changing meanings of standard operators too much either |
| 00:28.00 | ronny | the problem - collisions that nobody can ever debug |
| 00:28.05 | quatrox | thinks that the only way to patch is binary run time patching |
| 00:28.17 | jc | but when you for example compute with very precise numbers |
| 00:28.39 | quatrox | jc: why would you do that? |
| 00:28.45 | jc | would you like to consistently code addition as NumberClass::Add(Number1, Number2) or rather just a simple Number1 + Number2 ? |
| 00:29.11 | ronny | operators can just be mapped to methods |
| 00:29.20 | ronny | and its the job of the language to do that |
| 00:29.20 | jc | when cpu supported word length is not enough ? |
| 00:29.36 | ronny | both python and ruby do that |
| 00:29.40 | ronny | and its not what i meant |
| 00:29.48 | quatrox | jc: if you need to compute a lot of heavy stuff, add a google class. Google the answer |
| 00:29.52 | jc | also php I think, but I never really did that |
| 00:29.57 | ronny | i meant opening random existing classes and changing their code |
| 00:30.23 | jc | ronny like so that they do something else that theyre supposed to all of a sudden ? |
| 00:30.40 | jc | I think they do a lot of unit testing so they catch all incorrect behavior in time, right ? |
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| 00:31.35 | Fougner | hiya! |
| 00:31.42 | ronny | jc: that doesnt help if a random lib changes some random other behaviour at runtime |
| 00:31.42 | jc | hullo |
| 00:32.02 | jc | reminds me of lisp |
| 00:32.27 | ronny | not really |
| 00:32.29 | jc | ronny, anyway they seriously do that ? |
| 00:32.38 | ronny | jc: yes, its common in ruby |
| 00:32.46 | jc | so like |
| 00:32.47 | quatrox | hmmm... I want to learn Vala, python, ..., |
| 00:32.58 | jc | instead of writing an abstract class for database access |
| 00:33.12 | jc | they write one class that accessess for example mysql |
| 00:33.12 | Fougner | oh, programming :D |
| 00:33.19 | jc | and then someone says 'oh no I don't like mysql' |
| 00:33.28 | quatrox | I hate too much abstraction. Better to get the work done |
| 00:33.32 | ronny | jc: bad example, completely wrong and insane factoring |
| 00:33.35 | jc | and instead of making the database class abstract and making a mysql/sqlite extensions |
| 00:33.57 | Fougner | where is Dave? |
| 00:33.58 | ronny | jc: they just add new behaviours if they actually need them |
| 00:34.00 | Fougner | apt get Dave |
| 00:34.01 | apt | ACTION fetches Dave |
| 00:34.05 | jc | he writes a sqlite class that redirects the mysql classess methods to itself ? |
| 00:34.24 | ronny | jc: BAD BAD BAD - they arent that fscking insane |
| 00:34.35 | jc | ok :)) phew |
| 00:34.43 | jc | you know I actually saw RoR work, so.. |
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| 00:35.17 | Fougner | ey guys, tell me about a good simple C++ IDE in Linux |
| 00:35.28 | ronny | code::blocks? |
| 00:35.30 | jc | ronny so like they have a UTF-8 class that modifies every string parsing class to be utf-aware ? |
| 00:35.33 | ronny | kdevelop? |
| 00:35.39 | Fougner | if you've got some personal experience, please tell me about it too =) |
| 00:35.43 | quatrox | well, you computer geeks can finish the discussion... I must sleep |
| 00:35.55 | Fougner | quatrox, noooooo |
| 00:35.58 | ronny | jc: no, they would just change the string class to enfoce utf-8 |
| 00:36.05 | Fougner | you're one of us now , you must stay =) |
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| 00:36.14 | ronny | jc: but then someone else would change the string class to be ucs4 - and bang |
| 00:36.15 | quatrox | I am not |
| 00:36.38 | ronny | jc: but seriously, i lack good examples for this atm |
| 00:36.44 | jc | ronny, I don't get it, so the string class is originally non-utf aware |
| 00:36.47 | quatrox | I am a hardware person, not software geek |
| 00:37.09 | jc | and they throw in a class that adds some stuff to the string class to be utf-aware ? |
| 00:37.12 | Fougner | quatrox, oh, like what? =D |
| 00:37.22 | jc | well I know ruby only on the basic level |
| 00:37.43 | ronny | jc: those are all fscking bad examples tho |
| 00:38.00 | quatrox | Fougner: not easy to guess |
| 00:38.16 | jc | well those are some practices I actually came across a few times, you really wouldn't beleive it |
| 00:38.40 | Fougner | ronny, thanks for the tip |
| 00:38.45 | Fougner | I'll check em out |
| 00:38.46 | jc | so I expect the worst now :)) |
| 00:38.53 | ronny | hmm |
| 00:39.04 | ronny | i really should add more c++ support to pida |
| 00:39.13 | ronny | right now its kinda nonexistent |
| 00:39.13 | Fougner | o_O? |
| 00:39.58 | quatrox | ronny: Keep It Simple (==ansi C) |
| 00:40.03 | ronny | Fougner: im one of the core devs of the pida ide, right now we dont have any nice support/integration for c++ |
| 00:40.18 | ronny | quatrox: ansi c is seriously hellisch for building complex things |
| 00:40.26 | quatrox | no |
| 00:40.36 | Fougner | ronny, wow that's cool |
| 00:40.41 | quatrox | struct *? |
| 00:40.49 | ronny | well, then why the heck does it tend to generate things like gobject? |
| 00:41.05 | ronny | c seriously lacks support for higher level abstractions |
| 00:41.23 | jc | its not meant to ! |
| 00:41.24 | Fougner | hmm |
| 00:41.26 | quatrox | that is why I also like Vala |
| 00:41.27 | ronny | and mimicing them is kinda fucked up |
| 00:41.33 | ronny | vala is neat |
| 00:41.35 | jc | C is blazingly fast |
| 00:41.49 | Fougner | I'm not a programmer, but I've heard a lot of programmers argue about C/C++ |
| 00:42.00 | jc | its pretty simple |
| 00:42.07 | jc | C is unsuitable for any high level stuff |
| 00:42.10 | Fougner | seems like C is more "basic" where you can do "everything".. C++ is more highlevel than C. |
| 00:42.20 | jc | C statements translate usually to a few assembly instructions |
| 00:42.24 | quatrox | ask our hero mr Linus.... |
| 00:42.26 | jc | even on a thing like avr ! |
| 00:42.34 | Fougner | mr Linus? =D |
| 00:42.38 | Fougner | you mean Torvalds? |
| 00:42.42 | quatrox | si |
| 00:42.44 | jc | you address the memory directly, work with pointers, ... |
| 00:42.54 | ronny | jc: doesnt matter |
| 00:43.08 | jc | you have all variables directly on stack/heap, you basically generate very low level code |
| 00:43.10 | Fougner | jc, sounds like a quite fast language if you can write it correctly |
| 00:43.15 | quatrox | torvalds *linus; |
| 00:43.18 | jc | thats the problem |
| 00:43.21 | ronny | i dont care if i loose 5% of the speed while loosing 60% of the development time |
| 00:43.25 | jc | try doing database access in c |
| 00:43.30 | Fougner | hahah |
| 00:43.37 | jc | you have to worry about allocating strings into memory and stuff |
| 00:43.41 | jc | thats just ugly |
| 00:43.42 | Fougner | oh |
| 00:43.53 | jc | on the other hand if you look at things like perl |
| 00:43.57 | Fougner | so If I want to do a database engine, I'll go for C |
| 00:44.09 | Fougner | if I'll develop a game or something, I'll write it in C++ |
| 00:44.11 | ronny | c is like building a tunnel in a massive wall of granit - with your fingernails |
| 00:44.28 | jc | you have an interpreter that keeps track of what variables it has, how long they are, what you can do with them |
| 00:44.31 | quatrox | well.... the bottleneck is rather because of O(n^5) than because someone uses C++ instead of C |
| 00:44.33 | Fougner | ronny, sounds like impossible =) |
| 00:44.51 | jc | doesn't really let you call a string instead of a function due to misalignment :))) |
| 00:44.56 | ronny | Fougner: but people get by ;P |
| 00:45.23 | ronny | i think managed languages + jit are pretty much the future |
| 00:45.23 | quatrox | string? |
| 00:45.24 | Fougner | ronny, I'm installing pida now =) |
| 00:45.27 | quatrox | like gchar? |
| 00:45.35 | ronny | Fougner: no c++ support tho |
| 00:45.43 | jc | but at the same time, if you know how the hardware works and you know how everything is connected to it C is just so beautiful and simplifies your life a lot |
| 00:45.44 | Fougner | ronny, not at all? |
| 00:45.51 | Fougner | I can write a plugin for it :P |
| 00:46.08 | jc | but thats only if you solve things like flashing leds on avr :D |
| 00:46.10 | Fougner | ronny, I have the intention to learn a smaaall bit of Python too =) |
| 00:46.12 | quatrox | well... I played with my avr-kit |
| 00:46.28 | quatrox | and the best language I could use was asm |
| 00:46.39 | Fougner | you haxxors! |
| 00:46.42 | ronny | Fougner: well, then you might want to take a look at the development version (tonns of changes) |
| 00:46.42 | quatrox | my point is: each language has its advantage |
| 00:46.44 | jc | very beautiful example; |
| 00:46.48 | Fougner | evil naughty haxxors, you are! |
| 00:47.03 | Fougner | ronny, something I'll find useful hmm? ^^ |
| 00:47.06 | jc | if you have several serial buffers connected to each other and on a serial transceiver on a mcu |
| 00:47.24 | jc | bitfields in c are sooooo life saving |
| 00:47.27 | Fougner | ah, fsck it all.. PHP is the shit =D |
| 00:47.34 | Fougner | it pwns eeeeverything! |
| 00:47.35 | ronny | Fougner: i changed much stuff in the plugin stuff, but that starts to get a bit offtopic |
| 00:47.38 | rooly | so... |
| 00:47.38 | ronny | btw |
| 00:47.45 | quatrox | apt: Attack Fougner! |
| 00:47.46 | apt | ACTION grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing Fougner! |
| 00:47.48 | jc | especially if you access the stuff connected on them from many places |
| 00:47.49 | rooly | qte doesn't allow password input on webpages |
| 00:47.58 | Fougner | runs away |
| 00:48.06 | ronny | programms should be mainly for humans to read, only incidentially for computers to execute |
| 00:48.17 | jc | tell that to a 2KB AVR |
| 00:48.27 | Fougner | xD |
| 00:48.33 | jc | hey avr ! |
| 00:48.40 | jc | why dont you printf this fscking string |
| 00:48.42 | ronny | jc: i only talk to those using the shoes with spikes |
| 00:48.45 | quatrox | apt: reprogram ronny with his own code |
| 00:48.55 | jc | well dude I have only 128B of RAM |
| 00:49.04 | ronny | they tend to make funny noise |
| 00:49.09 | jc | and you can't really fit this onto the heap ! |
| 00:49.15 | jc | you have to read it sequentially... |
| 00:49.18 | ronny | jc: the first satelites ran lisp |
| 00:49.26 | Fougner | apt get ronny | >> ronny.person |
| 00:49.27 | apt | ACTION fetches ronny | >> ronny.person |
| 00:49.27 | ronny | and they had not even 512k |
| 00:49.34 | jc | and they cost like $2 |
| 00:49.53 | jc | and you can make uv lamps, remote controllers, timers, multimeters and stuff with them |
| 00:49.59 | jc | that actually work and blink and beep |
| 00:50.01 | quatrox | ronny: that is why Lisp is called Lost in Space Problems |
| 00:50.01 | jc | and its so cool |
| 00:50.18 | jc | and you don't have to pay for a $10 ARM that does STDIO correctly |
| 00:50.27 | Fougner | jc, sounds like a neat thing, where can I get one? =D |
| 00:50.29 | ronny | well, lisp is still one of the most powerfull languages out there |
| 00:50.32 | jc | and introduce a lot of overhead just to use printf() or something |
| 00:50.41 | jc | Fougner like a local electronics store? :D |
| 00:50.44 | quatrox | LOST IN STUPID PARENTHESES!!!! |
| 00:50.53 | jc | :)) |
| 00:50.57 | Fougner | jc, doesn't exist here ^^ |
| 00:50.59 | jc | flame on a rise I see |
| 00:51.10 | quatrox | (lost (in(even(((((more |
| 00:51.13 | quatrox | (((stupid |
| 00:51.14 | ronny | quatrox: those dont matter |
| 00:51.20 | quatrox | (((parentheses(((( |
| 00:51.23 | jc | well if it exists in this hellhole of a country, I don't see why it couldn't anywhere else |
| 00:51.24 | quatrox | ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) |
| 00:51.37 | Fougner | jc, where do you live? :P |
| 00:51.41 | jc | Czech Republic :D |
| 00:51.42 | Fougner | quatrox, haha funny |
| 00:51.45 | Fougner | oh |
| 00:51.47 | ronny | the parens are just one of the stupid arguments of those that are too stupid to get lisp |
| 00:51.55 | Fougner | well, you live in a big city maybe? |
| 00:52.09 | jc | nope, about 100 people or so in this 'city' |
| 00:52.12 | Fougner | code structure anyone? ^^ |
| 00:52.16 | Fougner | oh |
| 00:52.19 | Fougner | hehe, well |
| 00:52.23 | jc | but yeah, I have to go to a near larger city to electronics store |
| 00:52.24 | Fougner | I don't believe you |
| 00:52.31 | Fougner | yeah exacltey |
| 00:52.34 | Fougner | exactley even |
| 00:52.42 | quatrox | did you read this: http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/hellowoorld.html ? |
| 00:52.51 | quatrox | you should |
| 00:53.00 | jc | quatrox you mean the 404 ? |
| 00:53.22 | ronny | did read that |
| 00:53.36 | Fougner | jc, hah, http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/helloworld.html |
| 00:53.55 | jc | oooh yeah I remember those :D |
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| 00:54.10 | *** part/#openmoko nicfer (n=usuario@168.226.105.90) |
| 00:54.21 | jc | I see they ommited the part where the manager couldn't figure out how to end input to mail command :D :D |
| 00:54.31 | jc | I found that soooo funny :D |
| 00:54.32 | quatrox | letter!!! |
| 00:54.52 | jc | ooooh :D |
| 00:54.55 | jc | yeah :D |
| 00:54.57 | jc | cool :D |
| 00:55.06 | jc | I actually did a little basic on a C64 too :) |
| 00:55.20 | jc | but only used poke/peek anyway mostly |
| 00:57.04 | jc | if you like ugly kludges I could give you my latest UV lamp firmware source :D :D |
| 00:57.13 | jc | its a C heaven |
| 00:57.19 | Fougner | uhm, am I a retard just because I can't understand the code completely? =( |
| 00:57.19 | Wonka | apt reinstall world |
| 00:57.24 | ronny | hmm |
| 00:57.33 | ronny | god do i hate win32 |
| 00:57.34 | jc | the pointer to a pointer to function returning an integer kind of heaven :D |
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| 00:58.03 | jc | (button event handling routines :D :D) |
| 00:58.35 | quatrox | Fougner: which code is it that you don't understand? |
| 00:58.44 | quatrox | is it the lisp thing? |
| 00:58.53 | jc | I dont understand it either |
| 00:59.07 | Fougner | quatrox, a lot of it =P |
| 00:59.11 | Fougner | mostly the humour |
| 00:59.19 | quatrox | ohh |
| 00:59.25 | ronny | the lisp one is actually badly written, and doesnt work at all |
| 00:59.28 | jc | Fougner remember the prime 'Keep It Simple, Stupid' directive |
| 00:59.37 | quatrox | ronny: it works |
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| 00:59.58 | ronny | quatrox: they never call it, they just define the function |
| 01:00.11 | jc | really wheres the most basic printf("hello, world!\n'); one ? |
| 01:00.33 | Fougner | jc, KISS =D |
| 01:00.37 | jc | I mean in C, not in pascal, thats a WTF in itself (using pascal) |
| 01:00.37 | Wonka | how the *BLEEP* can openmoko-panel-plugin eat 91% of the time of a 400MHz CPU?!?? |
| 01:00.41 | jc | Fougner no thanks :D |
| 01:00.45 | jc | but yeah... |
| 01:01.09 | Wonka | jc: »don't use printf for chitchat!« |
| 01:01.22 | jc | why not? :D |
| 01:01.29 | Wonka | jc: because. |
| 01:01.47 | Fougner | Q: How can you tell when a lawyer is lying? |
| 01:01.57 | Wonka | Fougner: A: his lips are moving |
| 01:01.59 | jc | A: he's talking |
| 01:02.00 | jc | :D :D |
| 01:02.18 | Wonka | jc: printf would scan the whole string for format sequences... needlessly. |
| 01:02.32 | jc | Wonka unless it gets optimized |
| 01:02.47 | jc | Wonka and subsided with simple sequential output function |
| 01:03.00 | jc | by the compiler |
| 01:03.05 | ronny | not a reasonable asumption |
| 01:03.24 | jc | here the wtfs begin - you shouldn't really introduce kludges to speed things up before you really need them |
| 01:03.30 | ronny | thats a dataflow based optimation that needs knowdegde of the actual data |
| 01:03.46 | jc | nope, the compiler recognized printf() is passed a string literal |
| 01:04.09 | jc | and no other arguments |
| 01:04.12 | Sargun | How funny was it that bug 666 got the number 666? |
| 01:04.13 | jc | therefore it can be optimized ? |
| 01:04.15 | Wonka | it would need to recognize printf() is passed a string literal without % in it |
| 01:04.25 | Fougner | Q: What do you get when you cross the Godfather with a lawyer? |
| 01:04.28 | jc | oh yeah, I forgot about that |
| 01:04.39 | jc | so how do you propose to do a fastest hello world in c ? |
| 01:04.59 | ronny | main(){puts("hello world!");} |
| 01:05.13 | jc | I kinda missed puts :D |
| 01:05.15 | Wonka | write(1,"hello world\n"); |
| 01:05.23 | ronny | ah well, Wonka wins |
| 01:05.28 | jc | oh... |
| 01:06.04 | jc | anyway, printf on ARM fyi is just about 4 instructions for parsing the string and looking for % |
| 01:06.04 | Wonka | »puts() writes the string s and a trailing newline to stdout.« |
| 01:06.12 | jc | when it doesn't find any, its pretty fast |
| 01:06.30 | *** join/#openmoko feitingen (n=feitinge@cakebox.net) |
| 01:06.42 | jc | so like "s\n" ? :D: D |
| 01:06.47 | jc | noo you said string s |
| 01:06.51 | jc | so "s\0\n" |
| 01:07.05 | Wonka | c&p from manpage - manpage stupid. |
| 01:07.06 | *** join/#openmoko widrone (n=drone@unaffiliated/widrone) |
| 01:07.31 | ronny | back to win32 hate for me |
| 01:07.41 | ronny | porting software has never been this much fun |
| 01:07.54 | jc | so why do you do it? :D |
| 01:07.59 | *** join/#openmoko wanders_ (i=andersg@0x63.nu) |
| 01:08.00 | *** join/#openmoko |Marco|_ (i=marco@cakebox.net) |
| 01:08.08 | Wonka | but what i take from it is that puts adds a newline - needing a second syscall or string manipulation, which my write() doesn't. |
| 01:08.27 | jc | thats very true |
| 01:08.28 | ronny | jc: cause noone else can - sucks to be me |
| 01:08.34 | quatrox | ronny: ohh... |
| 01:08.34 | quatrox | C++ is to C as... |
| 01:08.34 | quatrox | "Seasoned professional" is to "First year in College" |
| 01:08.34 | quatrox | ref helloworld.html |
| 01:08.43 | quatrox | Wonka: who needs printf() when we got write() ? |
| 01:08.48 | jc | but how long do you think writing that to a buffer takes compared to actually outputing it to a screen or sending via uart ? |
| 01:08.57 | Wonka | quatrox: that's what i'm saying |
| 01:09.23 | ronny | i already declared Wonka to the winner |
| 01:09.54 | *** join/#openmoko Veggen (n=vegard@213-187-177-230.dd.nextgentel.com) |
| 01:10.09 | jc | well, I have to agree |
| 01:10.21 | jc | its fastest |
| 01:10.35 | ronny | night |
| 01:10.43 | jc | good night |
| 01:10.44 | Wonka | goes fast to bed now |
| 01:10.51 | Wonka | night ronny :) |
| 01:11.12 | Wonka | used too much strace in the last days... |
| 01:11.44 | Wonka | open(), close(), read() and write() on ttyS* and stuff... |
| 01:11.57 | jc | you should go and write some high level language to regain some sanity and social skills :D |
| 01:12.22 | jc | low level stuff is seriously bad for health |
| 01:12.29 | jc | once you get hooked to it, you can't stop |
| 01:12.51 | mwester | wonders why nobody came up with the appropriate syscall() to do the job |
| 01:13.30 | quatrox | Wonka: optimization is only usefull in loops |
| 01:13.42 | jc | something to piss you up and get you to stop hacking hardware |
| 01:13.43 | jc | like |
| 01:14.20 | jc | a GPIO pin hooked to an high inductance connected to a metal coat on your table |
| 01:14.43 | jc | and a shock_operator() syscall toggling it... |
| 01:14.59 | Wonka | apt lart jc |
| 01:14.59 | apt | keeps mailing jc free America Online CDs until he drowns |
| 01:15.06 | quatrox | jc: you forgot race conditions |
| 01:15.14 | jc | huh ? :D |
| 01:15.42 | quatrox | I won |
| 01:15.56 | quatrox | :P |
| 01:16.09 | jc | whats up with the cds? :P |
| 01:16.13 | Wonka | mwester: hm, write() is not syscall enough? |
| 01:16.40 | mwester | nope, one level too high -- need the syscall in assembly to win. :p |
| 01:16.48 | Wonka | *g* |
| 01:16.50 | jc | you can pretty much do it |
| 01:17.05 | quatrox | __asm__ ... |
| 01:17.06 | jc | push args on stack or into registers and issue a software interrupt |
| 01:17.16 | jc | depending on the arch, also |
| 01:17.25 | jc | of course then, you have to know the ABI |
| 01:17.35 | Wonka | bad enough that i need to know C in addition to python/perl/ruby... |
| 01:17.46 | quatrox | jc: don't forget the ever growing stack |
| 01:17.52 | Fougner | TAOISM: Shit happens. |
| 01:17.56 | jc | its not ever growing |
| 01:17.58 | Fougner | CONFUCIANISM: Confucius say, "Shit happens". |
| 01:18.01 | jc | it actually wraps around :D |
| 01:18.03 | Fougner | ZEN: (What is the sound of shit happening?) |
| 01:18.13 | quatrox | jc: it might grow too big and overwrite other things |
| 01:18.24 | Wonka | Fougner: Judaism: why does shit always happen to us? |
| 01:18.25 | jc | like the heap? :P |
| 01:18.35 | quatrox | like the sheap |
| 01:18.57 | Fougner | Wonka, yeah right lol :D |
| 01:19.01 | jc | especially on a 1KB AVR RAM, you get to love growing stacks and heaps :P |
| 01:19.09 | quatrox | stack is pretty similar to heap |
| 01:19.20 | jc | only one collides with the other eventually :D |
| 01:19.33 | quatrox | 1kB or 1kb? |
| 01:19.37 | jc | KB |
| 01:19.42 | quatrox | ? |
| 01:19.52 | jc | really, some have even 1KB RAM :D |
| 01:20.03 | jc | some have 128B |
| 01:20.05 | quatrox | 1000 Byes? |
| 01:20.08 | jc | yup |
| 01:20.16 | mwester | 1024, actually. |
| 01:20.21 | quatrox | nope |
| 01:20.22 | jc | oh yeah, 1024 |
| 01:20.23 | quatrox | that is k |
| 01:20.27 | quatrox | not K |
| 01:20.30 | quatrox | ? |
| 01:20.38 | quatrox | no? |
| 01:20.45 | mwester | something like that, I guess. |
| 01:20.45 | jc | fuck the prefixes :) |
| 01:20.50 | jc | everybody means 1024 :D |
| 01:20.54 | quatrox | kiB |
| 01:21.09 | quatrox | except for Western Digital |
| 01:21.11 | jc | except the bastards who rip us off on 512MB SD cards and 700MB CD-ROMs |
| 01:21.20 | jc | yeah and WD |
| 01:21.20 | mwester | hates marketing people who decided that capacity in KB where K=1000 sells better than capacity in KB where K=1024 as it should. |
| 01:21.28 | *** join/#openmoko hothoofs (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 01:21.37 | rooly | does too |
| 01:21.54 | quatrox | mwester: but if you are a good customer, you get 9 bits in a byte |
| 01:22.01 | jc | anyway I'm too tired to learn the correct prefixing right now :D |
| 01:22.07 | jc | I just mean 1024 every time.. |
| 01:22.27 | jc | actually |
| 01:22.47 | jc | there are some obscure micros today that dont respect standard widths |
| 01:22.54 | jc | like PICs have 14 bit program words |
| 01:23.02 | jc | thats very ugly for program memory stored data |
| 01:23.02 | Fougner | % ar m God |
| 01:23.02 | Fougner | ar: God does not exist |
| 01:23.02 | Fougner | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:23.25 | jc | or at least PIC16s |
| 01:24.06 | quatrox | but PICs are cheap |
| 01:24.11 | jc | so are avr |
| 01:24.11 | jc | s |
| 01:24.22 | jc | and at least here, avrs are cheaper |
| 01:24.29 | jc | and also more usable on linux |
| 01:24.34 | quatrox | AVR is easy to use and fast on GPIO |
| 01:24.37 | jc | oh I mean hackable |
| 01:24.51 | jc | well they have one major advantage over PICs |
| 01:24.54 | quatrox | AVR suck on calculations |
| 01:24.55 | Fougner | %make love |
| 01:24.55 | Fougner | Make: Don't know how to make love. Stop. |
| 01:25.09 | Fougner | % sleep with me |
| 01:25.09 | Fougner | bad character |
| 01:25.12 | jc | you can toggle multiple pin values by outing to PINx |
| 01:25.17 | jc | pics don't have that... |
| 01:25.20 | Fougner | % got a light? |
| 01:25.20 | Fougner | No match. |
| 01:25.32 | jc | also, BSF STATUS,RP0 made me switch |
| 01:25.33 | Fougner | % man: why did you get a divorce? |
| 01:25.34 | Fougner | man:: Too many arguments. |
| 01:26.17 | jc | quatrox what calculations do you think avrs suck on? :P |
| 01:26.24 | jc | except division :D |
| 01:26.29 | quatrox | floating points? |
| 01:26.40 | Wonka | sink them! |
| 01:26.49 | quatrox | fft,... |
| 01:26.52 | jc | ever tried calculating with them on a pic or 8051 ? |
| 01:27.06 | quatrox | well |
| 01:27.19 | jc | not me, I don't use them even on avr |
| 01:27.25 | jc | they can usually be avoided |
| 01:27.50 | quatrox | well, avr is fast on GPIO and slow on math |
| 01:28.02 | jc | avr is very slow on c-style addressing math |
| 01:28.03 | quatrox | rabbit is fast on math and slow on GPIO |
| 01:28.06 | jc | that matters very much |
| 01:28.08 | jc | rabiit ? |
| 01:28.12 | jc | *fasty |
| 01:28.16 | jc | *fast |
| 01:29.22 | quatrox | rabbit was one example... there are many that is much better |
| 01:29.37 | jc | rabbit is some kind of mcu ? |
| 01:29.43 | quatrox | http://www.rabbit.com/products/rab3000/ |
| 01:29.51 | jc | funny name :D |
| 01:30.12 | jc | well for practicality and availability sake, I only use AVRs here... |
| 01:30.23 | quatrox | me too |
| 01:30.28 | jc | pics are also available but bank switching just sucks big time |
| 01:30.31 | jc | can't get over it |
| 01:30.36 | quatrox | and AMD for computations |
| 01:30.44 | jc | amd ? like x86 ? |
| 01:31.17 | quatrox | amd64 |
| 01:31.32 | jc | you use that in embedded? :P |
| 01:31.35 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 01:31.36 | quatrox | nope |
| 01:31.41 | quatrox | no way |
| 01:31.44 | jc | I once tried to get a 486 DX 2 running :D |
| 01:31.47 | jc | its possible |
| 01:31.56 | quatrox | I use it for {k}octave |
| 01:32.01 | jc | I mean on a selfmade board |
| 01:32.07 | quatrox | ohh |
| 01:32.10 | quatrox | cool |
| 01:32.12 | jc | oh, I don't do math :D |
| 01:32.16 | jc | its great really |
| 01:32.21 | jc | 486 is still pretty simple |
| 01:32.23 | Wonka | for calculations, i'd like to take an xc3s... |
| 01:32.24 | jc | and its doable |
| 01:32.31 | jc | datasheet is totally understandable |
| 01:32.40 | jc | and the instruction set isnt too much bloated yet |
| 01:32.57 | quatrox | and the frequency is low enough |
| 01:33.07 | jc | I think it was about 33MHz |
| 01:33.13 | quatrox | it gets very complicated with high freq. |
| 01:33.16 | jc | and it has onboard PLL |
| 01:33.17 | jc | yep |
| 01:33.49 | jc | but in comparison to a 20MHz AVR i/o operations are slower unles you setup dma or something |
| 01:33.58 | jc | x86 instructions take time to execute |
| 01:34.26 | quatrox | 4 or 8 cycles per instructions |
| 01:34.27 | Wonka | i know a company that runs Linux on FPGAs |
| 01:34.40 | quatrox | while atmel uses 1 or 2 |
| 01:34.42 | *** join/#openmoko gurugentoo (n=narf@tamulink-0050.vpn.tamu.edu) |
| 01:34.45 | jc | yep |
| 01:34.52 | jc | well its a load/store arch |
| 01:35.00 | jc | its power is that it has many registers |
| 01:35.10 | jc | but whenever you move in memory, you take 2 cycles |
| 01:35.24 | quatrox | on atmel? |
| 01:35.27 | jc | avr |
| 01:35.30 | quatrox | but |
| 01:35.35 | quatrox | do not forget |
| 01:35.36 | quatrox | that |
| 01:36.09 | quatrox | after first cycle, next instruction is sent |
| 01:36.27 | jc | doesn't matter if data bus hangs the execution |
| 01:36.48 | quatrox | xx |
| 01:36.48 | quatrox | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:36.48 | quatrox | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:36.50 | jc | I think all ld/st instructions are 2 cycles |
| 01:37.18 | jc | yeah and does 4 stage pipelining make an arm any faster ? |
| 01:37.22 | quatrox | in practice it will be like one cycle, IIRC |
| 01:37.39 | jc | really ? |
| 01:37.48 | quatrox | yeah |
| 01:38.14 | quatrox | instruction a is at the first cycle |
| 01:38.48 | jc | oh, I'm so asleep I was just searching for a datasheet on my freerunner filesystem :D :D |
| 01:38.51 | quatrox | then when it starts on second sycle, instruction b is on the first cycle |
| 01:39.00 | quatrox | ahaha |
| 01:39.07 | quatrox | did you find any? |
| 01:39.07 | jc | also, I'm so sleepy to correctly write sleepy |
| 01:39.15 | jc | unfortunately not |
| 01:39.19 | quatrox | :( |
| 01:39.24 | quatrox | hmm |
| 01:40.00 | jc | allright |
| 01:40.02 | quatrox | jc: do you think evince would run nice on the FR= |
| 01:40.03 | quatrox | ? |
| 01:40.09 | jc | all ld/st instrucitions are 2 cycles |
| 01:40.17 | quatrox | yes |
| 01:40.20 | Fougner | I'm not kidding you when I say : I need some sleep |
| 01:40.23 | jc | and lpms are 3 |
| 01:40.40 | *** join/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@210.13.121.62) |
| 01:40.50 | jc | really I was suprised first time I saw avr-gcc code listing :D |
| 01:40.52 | *** part/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@210.13.121.62) |
| 01:41.05 | jc | lpming stuff from flash to ram a lot |
| 01:41.08 | jc | until I got it |
| 01:41.32 | jc | quatrox dunno, I'm not familiar with that much :/ |
| 01:41.45 | quatrox | ok |
| 01:41.51 | jc | although I love evince and I'd love to read datasheets on fr :D |
| 01:42.16 | quatrox | hmm |
| 01:42.19 | quatrox | and gvim |
| 01:42.19 | jc | afaik it uses some pdf rendering library with pango/cairo acceleration that makes it so fast on x86 ? |
| 01:42.32 | quatrox | we need a stripped down version of gvim |
| 01:42.37 | Fougner | nite |
| 01:42.41 | quatrox | nite |
| 01:42.47 | jc | stripped ? |
| 01:42.50 | jc | like reduced in code ? |
| 01:42.55 | Fougner | NO NAKED! |
| 01:42.57 | jc | or like stripped in stripped binary ? |
| 01:42.58 | jc | ooooh :D |
| 01:43.09 | jc | someone needs to get laid :D |
| 01:43.33 | quatrox | stripped in Not support for everything that makes it lag on FR |
| 01:43.43 | quatrox | and stripped down graphics |
| 01:43.56 | jc | so why gvim and not vim ? |
| 01:44.19 | jc | actually I find vi from busybox for basic editing usable |
| 01:44.33 | jc | really it was a very pleasant suprise |
| 01:44.40 | jc | one of the first stuff I ran on my fr |
| 01:44.50 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | well |
| 01:45.00 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | with a keyboard with esc, it is ok |
| 01:45.14 | jc | yep |
| 01:45.15 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | esc, /, and : |
| 01:45.35 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | and I need visual mode |
| 01:45.39 | jc | I didn't find any other keyboard than the terminal one useful |
| 01:45.43 | jc | I think that was matchbox |
| 01:45.46 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | vi does not support visual mode |
| 01:45.53 | jc | visual mode is useful |
| 01:46.10 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | I use it all time at work |
| 01:46.12 | jc | stylus invoked visual mode :D |
| 01:46.42 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | to create folds, to better get the overview in large files |
| 01:46.47 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | hmm |
| 01:46.48 | jc | anyway I think FR isn't usable too much for more complex text editing |
| 01:47.00 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | no? |
| 01:47.02 | jc | but at least key controlled visual mode would be cool though |
| 01:47.06 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | tex? |
| 01:47.26 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | well, at least it has accels |
| 01:47.31 | jc | well you could probably .. dunno.. develop pages on fr |
| 01:47.49 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | so we can kick the FR and calculate how far away it landed |
| 01:48.00 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | and find the position by GPS |
| 01:48.12 | jc | but when programming, all the taping/typo/fixing overhead just pisses you off |
| 01:48.25 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | no.... |
| 01:48.32 | jc | I didn't get into hack mode on FR yet unless hacking FR itself |
| 01:48.42 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | do not program on fr with on screen keyboard |
| 01:48.57 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | I use a iGo BT stowaway keyboard |
| 01:49.01 | jc | and I thought about the text input as part of the hacking process then :D |
| 01:49.18 | jc | I'd love to do a avr gadget |
| 01:49.21 | jc | connectable to usb |
| 01:49.25 | jc | attachable to fr |
| 01:49.29 | jc | with buttons |
| 01:49.34 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | that is easy |
| 01:49.39 | jc | so you can play like NES games or so |
| 01:49.41 | jc | yep I know |
| 01:49.47 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | atmega8 is nice |
| 01:49.48 | jc | avr-usb and HID |
| 01:49.54 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | ahh |
| 01:49.55 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | usb |
| 01:49.59 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | that's right |
| 01:50.01 | jc | its possible even with tiny2313 |
| 01:50.15 | jc | mega8 is too much computing power |
| 01:50.26 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | and no usb |
| 01:50.34 | jc | software usb stack |
| 01:50.42 | jc | once set up, relatively low overhead |
| 01:50.50 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | tiny13? |
| 01:50.52 | jc | except when handling packet interrupts |
| 01:51.01 | jc | dunno the 13 |
| 01:51.23 | jc | only bulk transfers give avrs the creeps |
| 01:51.38 | jc | hid with interrupt endpoints is perfectly possible |
| 01:51.38 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | true |
| 01:51.48 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | ehh' |
| 01:51.56 | jc | so no need to have hardware usb support for more money |
| 01:52.00 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | usb does not use irq, IIRC |
| 01:52.08 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | not before usb 3.x |
| 01:52.13 | jc | on avr it does |
| 01:52.33 | jc | whenever data comes on either lines, interrupt is triggered inside avr |
| 01:52.52 | jc | the timing is very critical then to be synchronized with usb clock so it has to be interrupt driven |
| 01:53.07 | jc | well, thats the data link layer |
| 01:53.09 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | external irq? |
| 01:53.13 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | :( |
| 01:53.17 | jc | yep, from usb data lines |
| 01:53.22 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | you get a spike... |
| 01:53.24 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | and ... |
| 01:53.30 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | better off polling |
| 01:53.41 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | sorry |
| 01:53.46 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | bit banging |
| 01:53.52 | jc | 20MHz avr doesn't have time for that on 12Mbit bus |
| 01:53.57 | jc | oh 1.2Mbit |
| 01:54.13 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | yes |
| 01:54.15 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | :) |
| 01:54.24 | jc | yep the spikes are bad |
| 01:54.30 | jc | thats what bulk endpoints are about |
| 01:54.33 | jc | loooots of interrupts |
| 01:54.41 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | and caps |
| 01:54.52 | jc | but unless you do mass storage emulation you don't need them |
| 01:54.56 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | maybe a BP filter |
| 01:55.04 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | hmm |
| 01:55.08 | jc | filters are not necessary really |
| 01:55.08 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | LP filter |
| 01:55.15 | jc | its pretty simple, the hw interface |
| 01:55.19 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | it is only one cap |
| 01:55.29 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | then you got a LP filter |
| 01:55.39 | jc | well.. if you mean power filtering |
| 01:55.46 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | nope |
| 01:55.58 | jc | I hate filters :/ |
| 01:56.06 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | you got internal resistance and inductance |
| 01:56.10 | jc | can't do the math |
| 01:56.35 | jc | well maybe I could but I'm lazy to try and understand them |
| 01:56.40 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | that is why you need octave (compatible with matlab) |
| 01:57.20 | jc | well since its a relatively slow bus when you are a low speed device, filtering isn't really necessary |
| 01:57.33 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | anyway.... just take a little C there, and it works better |
| 01:57.47 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | little C + little R |
| 01:58.14 | jc | but adding buttons to fr would be cool |
| 01:58.21 | jc | it would just look lame in public |
| 01:58.30 | jc | hacked gadget wrapper around a fr |
| 01:58.41 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | I bought a dog tag BT handsfree |
| 01:58.45 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | it has buttons |
| 01:58.48 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | :) |
| 01:58.58 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | didn't try it yet |
| 01:59.04 | jc | hmm.. so like use the button for jumping in nes mario ? :D |
| 01:59.24 | jc | ok, only 5 remaining now |
| 01:59.45 | jc | I mean like a gaming controller or a qwerty keyboard |
| 02:00.29 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | http://sddigital.co.uk/images/Jabra%20BT3030.jpg |
| 02:00.52 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | make something out of something |
| 02:01.00 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | buy some bt device |
| 02:01.00 | jc | hey actually that could work :D |
| 02:01.06 | jc | is it hard to push them ? |
| 02:01.11 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | no |
| 02:01.18 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | not very hard |
| 02:01.41 | Dave | hmm |
| 02:01.56 | Dave | anyone here have java6 installed? |
| 02:02.01 | jc | on a fr? :D |
| 02:02.12 | Dave | haha no |
| 02:02.14 | Dave | on linux |
| 02:02.16 | Dave | (pc) |
| 02:02.22 | jc | if id had jazelle... |
| 02:02.25 | jc | *it |
| 02:02.28 | jc | but who likes java |
| 02:02.55 | Dave | I'm just confused because the debian package for sun-java6 is installed but java-version is 1.5.0 ... |
| 02:03.17 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | $ eix -I -c java |
| 02:03.17 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | [I] dev-java/java-config (1.3.7@12/02/07 2.1.6(2)@05/25/08): Java environment configuration tool |
| 02:03.17 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | [I] dev-java/java-config-wrapper (0.15@03/24/08): Wrapper for java-config |
| 02:03.29 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 02:03.31 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | not sure what I got |
| 02:03.36 | raster | may java be infected by the fleas of 1000 camels |
| 02:03.50 | Dave | o.O |
| 02:03.53 | Dave | yes yes |
| 02:03.58 | Dave | quatrox: java -version :p |
| 02:04.16 | Dave | raster, I agree, though I regrettably need it for this one project. |
| 02:05.15 | jc | and I need to get a life.. whatever |
| 02:05.22 | Dave | haha |
| 02:05.34 | Dave | jc, this is not a good place to start then :D |
| 02:05.49 | raster | Dave: may that project be infested by the fleas of 2000 camels |
| 02:05.55 | jc | hey at least I'm seeing people :D |
| 02:05.57 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | $ java -version |
| 02:05.57 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | java version "1.6.0_10" |
| 02:05.57 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_10-b33) |
| 02:05.57 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 11.0-b15, mixed mode, sharing) |
| 02:06.22 | Dave | hah |
| 02:06.30 | Dave | hrm |
| 02:06.33 | Dave | yeah |
| 02:06.35 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | what? |
| 02:06.42 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | too new? |
| 02:06.54 | *** join/#openmoko gurugentoo (n=narf@r74-192-209-66.bcstcmta02.clsttx.tl.dh.suddenlink.net) |
| 02:06.55 | *** join/#openmoko Defiant- (i=erik@c134056.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 02:06.59 | Dave | something like that |
| 02:07.09 | Dave | stupid sun |
| 02:07.16 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | yes |
| 02:07.24 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | anyway |
| 02:07.29 | Dave | too bad they're going bankrupt though? |
| 02:07.29 | jc | without sun you'd long be dead |
| 02:07.34 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | you don't need java |
| 02:07.36 | Dave | hahaha |
| 02:07.38 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | use python |
| 02:07.40 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | c |
| 02:07.42 | Dave | yes |
| 02:07.43 | jc | I think thats the ultimate vendor lock-in :D :D :D |
| 02:07.44 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | c++ |
| 02:07.45 | Dave | perl |
| 02:07.46 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | vala |
| 02:07.47 | jc | lol |
| 02:07.55 | raster | c |
| 02:07.58 | Dave | fucking jc |
| 02:08.04 | jc | rofl |
| 02:08.04 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | lisp, whitespaces, ... |
| 02:08.08 | Dave | DON'T GIVE THEM IDEAS! |
| 02:08.17 | Dave | ssssh, Apple could be listening! |
| 02:08.21 | Dave | :x |
| 02:08.24 | jc | but you gotta admit that was a good one :D |
| 02:08.55 | jc | maybe the european union can start a huge space uv lamp project to demonopolize the solar industry |
| 02:09.08 | Dave | \o/ |
| 02:09.21 | raster | buys the sun |
| 02:09.23 | raster | MUHAHAHAH |
| 02:09.26 | raster | its all mine |
| 02:09.29 | raster | MINE! |
| 02:09.55 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | raster: ok, if I own a sphere around it |
| 02:10.25 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | I don't want any gasses or light from your sun in my sphere |
| 02:10.38 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | HA! |
| 02:10.42 | Dave | raster, may I lease a nice part of the corona? |
| 02:10.47 | Dave | ;) |
| 02:11.28 | raster | quatrox|zZzzzZzz: try stop them! :) |
| 02:11.42 | SuN | Ok STOP it, IRC client lighting up like a christmas tree. |
| 02:11.44 | raster | Dave: sure. nice spot for fishing :) |
| 02:11.47 | jc | maybe sun will get sued soon, world economy is running dry |
| 02:11.52 | Dave | :) |
| 02:11.55 | raster | hahahah |
| 02:12.19 | jc | less light, more cars and mcdonalds foods for everyone |
| 02:14.04 | Dave | barf |
| 02:15.00 | jc | so anyway, who's the taoist in openmoko community ? |
| 02:15.11 | rooly | sighs |
| 02:15.12 | jc | really, the 'manual' was a very pleasant suprise |
| 02:15.13 | rooly | blergh |
| 02:15.18 | jc | really got me into the hacking mood |
| 02:15.33 | rooly | 4000 messages to download on my phone via imap |
| 02:17.51 | *** join/#openmoko hari (n=hklein@i59F75ABC.versanet.de) |
| 02:20.23 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | hmm |
| 02:20.36 | rooly | and wifi |
| 02:20.38 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@212-183-112-51.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 02:20.45 | rooly | why is the wifi so slow? is it because the phone itself is slow? |
| 02:21.03 | jc | how do you define 'wifi is slow' ? |
| 02:21.50 | mwester-laptop | wifi is busted in the "stable" kernel. |
| 02:21.53 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | rooly: they wrote a gpio driver |
| 02:21.53 | rooly | all my internet operations seem slow, altho it could quite easily be because of the gui |
| 02:22.05 | jc | ar6k could use some documenting |
| 02:22.23 | jc | and support for forcing 802.11b mode |
| 02:22.36 | jc | needed for example for my broken wap |
| 02:22.36 | rooly | mwester-laptop: i'm using your qte kernel atm |
| 02:22.44 | mwester-laptop | as soon as the 2.6.28-or-so kernel gets a bit more stable, we can switch to it (which will require user-space changes) -- wifi will be much, much better. |
| 02:23.01 | mwester-laptop | rooly: Yep, wifi is borked on that 2.6.24 kernel. |
| 02:23.09 | jc | well you should benchmark with like ftp transfer or something |
| 02:23.29 | jc | (of large files) |
| 02:23.42 | mwester-laptop | can't benchmark it, 'cause it doesn't stay associated with his WPA access point long enough :( |
| 02:23.43 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | ...from lan |
| 02:23.58 | rooly | runs only open networks...thanks to the dmca |
| 02:23.59 | jc | then you maybe got the same problem as me |
| 02:24.03 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | wpa???? |
| 02:24.13 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | disable wpa |
| 02:24.22 | jc | whenever I do large bandwidth data transmission, my link breaks up |
| 02:24.29 | jc | does the same on my laptop with this wap |
| 02:24.31 | mwester-laptop | not a chance. my neighbors are NOT welcome to use my network. |
| 02:24.35 | jc | but only in g mode |
| 02:24.45 | frojnd | Talking about security, will open moko ever support wpa ENTERPRISE ? |
| 02:24.47 | rooly | lol, mwester-laptop, whitelist mac addresses |
| 02:25.06 | jc | I don't mind people using my wifi |
| 02:25.19 | quatrox|zZzzzZzz | mwester-laptop: openvpn? Mac-filter? hidden essid, |
| 02:25.21 | mwester-laptop | mac addresses are incredibly easy to change. That'll just be a challenge, and encourage them. |
| 02:25.22 | rooly | or better yet, have 2 separate networks, a wpa one and an open one with your FR whitelisted |
| 02:25.24 | jc | I know the awful feeling when you just got to find a train home and cant find anywhere to connect to internet |
| 02:26.04 | jc | maybe not really practical here but its evil to have cheap broadband and not share at least a little slice around, maybe qosed low |
| 02:26.24 | rooly | agrees |
| 02:27.11 | averybody | agrees |
| 02:28.05 | mwester-laptop | has a wpa-protected guest wlan -- just ask for the key if you're a guest here. But it's for guests, not the cheapo neighbors. |
| 02:28.07 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | arrrggg... s/av/ev/g |
| 02:28.37 | mwester-laptop | quatrox|zzZzzzzz: you lost the moment. ;) |
| 02:28.48 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | yes |
| 02:28.54 | rooly | sighs |
| 02:28.57 | rooly | 4000 emails |
| 02:28.59 | rooly | ... |
| 02:29.58 | jc | well if they piss you off |
| 02:30.16 | jc | makes sense to blacklist theyr macs then |
| 02:30.30 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | no |
| 02:30.46 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | blacklist is useless |
| 02:30.54 | rooly | yeah |
| 02:30.55 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | use whitelisting |
| 02:31.04 | jc | normal people usually cant change theyr mac addressess |
| 02:31.21 | rooly | but its not hard |
| 02:31.22 | *** join/#openmoko emacsen (n=serge@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/emacsen) |
| 02:31.27 | jc | and you still want other people to have at least limited access |
| 02:31.27 | rooly | you can do it even from windows command line |
| 02:31.29 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | if two devices has same mac, both gets disconnected, right? |
| 02:31.49 | mwester-laptop | I wish you knew these kids. bad lot. they would take any "black list" or "white list" as a personal challenge, and work harder to break in -- and then, just because I deliberately tried to keep them out, they would do some damage if they could. bad bad lot. |
| 02:31.53 | jc | of course not, but they usually just turn the thing on, it tells them it found the signal, they connect and the'yre happy |
| 02:32.14 | rooly | here's an idea |
| 02:32.19 | jc | theyr mac gets banned, they're kicked out by ap, cant associate, windoze tells them it cannoct connect, they give up |
| 02:32.37 | cjb | my AP's essid is "PasswordsSuck". :) |
| 02:32.44 | mwester-laptop | they download kesmit (or whatever it is), and go at it. |
| 02:32.44 | rooly | throw a Faraday cage in between your antenna and their living space |
| 02:32.52 | mwester-laptop | Now that's an idea. |
| 02:33.00 | rooly | then no trouble at all |
| 02:33.03 | jc | script kiddies and phreaks usually find a way |
| 02:33.20 | jc | one mofo totally taken down our school wifi network last week |
| 02:33.27 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | kismet |
| 02:33.31 | mwester-laptop | But just going with WPA like everyone else in the neighborhood is just as good -- my network is invisible in the crowd. :) |
| 02:33.37 | jc | he had some script that sequentially took mac addressess of all associated clients |
| 02:33.39 | jc | asshole.. |
| 02:33.47 | jc | he thinks hes a king |
| 02:33.52 | jc | wifi isn't so hard to take down |
| 02:34.05 | cjb | in countries in Latin America, pretty much every random desktop can change its MAC |
| 02:34.11 | cjb | because they're all clone machines, no brand names |
| 02:34.12 | jc | here to |
| 02:34.16 | jc | but people are dumb |
| 02:34.28 | jc | they dont find the mac field in netcard settings or bios |
| 02:34.36 | jc | and if they do, they dunno what it means |
| 02:35.07 | jc | really, on a village 99% people dunno the chunky looking ugly mobile phone in your pocket is actually a great hacking tool and companion :D |
| 02:35.08 | mwester-laptop | One of the big problems with locking down mac addresses is historical -- Digital Equipment Corporation. |
| 02:35.37 | jc | and what is that ? |
| 02:36.51 | mwester-laptop | DECnet ran directly on top of ethernet, and when you assigned a DEC system its node id number, the last digits of the MAC address had to change to match. So compatability with DECnet drove the requirement for ifconfig to allow MAC addr changing. |
| 02:37.26 | jc | thats braindead |
| 02:37.40 | mwester-laptop | totally. complete violation of all the layering rules. |
| 02:38.15 | jc | network layer address shouldnt have anything to do with link layer address |
| 02:38.44 | rooly | christ...my phone is still downloading emails |
| 02:38.58 | jc | wth |
| 02:39.09 | jc | batteries in my stylus are suddenly shot |
| 02:39.10 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | but it is nice that one can change it, no? |
| 02:39.21 | rooly | thank god i did this over wifi and not gsm dialup |
| 02:39.23 | jc | nice to have freedom, true |
| 02:39.31 | raster | there was one time.. when sgi fucked up |
| 02:39.38 | raster | and delivered a whole batch of machines to a lab |
| 02:39.43 | raster | all with the same mac address set |
| 02:40.05 | raster | they had some nice problems setting up their network until they noticed it was that all the mac addrs were the same |
| 02:40.09 | raster | thank god they could change them |
| 02:40.10 | rooly | hmm...i wonder if gsm dialup will be faster than wifi |
| 02:40.11 | raster | :) |
| 02:40.35 | jc | :D |
| 02:40.38 | jc | thats nasty |
| 02:40.55 | slaxxin | 1 cool prank |
| 02:41.02 | jc | I thought they burned that to a rom inside the controller during manufacture |
| 02:41.22 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | they do |
| 02:41.34 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | but you map the memory |
| 02:41.50 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | and overwrite |
| 02:41.54 | jc | well either you use it or dont |
| 02:42.26 | jc | anyway 2 things I don't like in todays supposedly most universal portocol - usb |
| 02:42.34 | jc | VID/PID allocation - there is no generic one for hackers |
| 02:42.46 | jc | and extreme complexity |
| 02:43.05 | jc | ooh sweet old rs-232 |
| 02:43.09 | jc | so many fun memories |
| 02:43.13 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | usb 3.0 will be slightly better |
| 02:43.22 | rooly | i wonder if there are any real-time chat programs for qte |
| 02:43.26 | jc | now slowly disappearing in a mist of avr-usb ugly hacking and endpoint definitions |
| 02:43.55 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | jc:??????????? |
| 02:44.06 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | no mor max232? |
| 02:44.15 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | *more |
| 02:44.21 | jc | 4050 is cheaper :D |
| 02:44.42 | jc | yes the voltage was a problem |
| 02:44.44 | jc | but only a minor one |
| 02:44.59 | jc | compared to all the stress you have with usb |
| 02:45.02 | mwester-laptop | thinks the serial port will be around for a long while, although the RS232 spec isn't very common anymore. |
| 02:45.16 | jc | you could hook a led onto a CTS /GND line and blink it without any hardware |
| 02:45.18 | jc | that was cool |
| 02:45.53 | jc | also - without any programming - use serial buffers to extend number of controllable pins from 3 to n |
| 02:46.10 | jc | (or use parallel port :D but I didnt come across that) |
| 02:46.24 | jc | well my laptop doesnt have it |
| 02:46.34 | jc | and I really really hate that fact |
| 02:47.01 | jc | hard to program avrs |
| 02:47.13 | jc | usb programmers arent cheap or easy to implement |
| 02:47.30 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | i use my parport to switch on/off lights, etc |
| 02:47.34 | jc | although I see a little sparkle of light in I2C busses from VGA and DVI connectors |
| 02:47.55 | jc | those are easily hookable |
| 02:48.00 | jc | but not entirely safe I guess |
| 02:49.42 | jc | also its a shame you cant hook to it externally on FR |
| 02:49.58 | jc | I think openpandora has external uart |
| 02:50.01 | raster | vga or dvi? |
| 02:50.04 | jc | they're really pro-hacker |
| 02:50.09 | jc | both have it, afaik |
| 02:50.39 | mwester-laptop | What really annoys me is that Andy had a brilliant idea for the GTA03, and Om's unbelievable management nixed it. |
| 02:50.52 | raster | which one? |
| 02:51.34 | mwester-laptop | Take the space used by the debug connector, and put an ftdi serial-usb chip, and a micro connector on-board so that you no longer need a debug board for console access. |
| 02:51.49 | jc | cool |
| 02:52.15 | jc | also it would be possible to use BT uart hooked to uart on the soc |
| 02:52.19 | raster | oooh |
| 02:52.27 | raster | yeah |
| 02:52.30 | raster | that got nixed |
| 02:53.25 | jc | I just hope my effort with glamo pays of anyhow |
| 02:54.14 | jc | I think that would be a major milestone of saving FR to be usable |
| 02:54.26 | raster | tho imho the whole debug connecter is a bit ugly |
| 02:54.33 | jc | the cpu isnt bad at all |
| 02:54.38 | raster | it'd be nice not to need any such thing |
| 02:54.44 | raster | recycle an existing connector |
| 02:54.56 | jc | oh yeah |
| 02:55.01 | raster | jc: it wont change anything |
| 02:55.03 | jc | and the 2.5 mm jack idea is ugly too |
| 02:55.04 | kd8ikt | cmon now mwester then how will they get extra $ from people for a dboard :D |
| 02:55.09 | raster | glamo imho is a lost cause |
| 02:55.17 | mwester-laptop | Yep. If you do it right, you can even drive the jtag with the ftdi chip. |
| 02:55.41 | jc | mwester-laptop thats very inpractical |
| 02:55.51 | mwester-laptop | so is the debug board |
| 02:56.00 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@89.142.234.35) |
| 02:56.05 | jc | jtag is awful state machine that needs extreme clock to debug/program fast |
| 02:56.19 | mwester-laptop | ftdi chip can do very fast clocks |
| 02:56.25 | jc | paralel port jtag adapters take tens of minutes to program few mbit flashes |
| 02:56.46 | jc | usable sloely for rescue purposes... debricking |
| 02:57.00 | mwester-laptop | this isn't a parallel port approach; the ftdi uses gpios, basically. |
| 02:57.17 | jc | its uart right ? |
| 02:57.27 | kd8ikt | maybe OM has something else in mind |
| 02:57.41 | jc | you send debug data output one way and receive it the other |
| 02:57.43 | jc | so maybe fifo ? |
| 02:59.00 | jc | anyway I just like the expression 'bricked' :D |
| 02:59.08 | jc | our language doesn't have anything like that |
| 02:59.40 | jc | I wonder if you could make a house out of all the bricked ndses worldwide |
| 03:00.19 | jc | the temple of lost hope |
| 03:01.09 | jc | yeah I'm really sleepy now and getting stupid ideas |
| 03:01.14 | jc | I think I'll go to sleep :D |
| 03:01.16 | jc | good night |
| 03:01.18 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=charlie@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 03:04.33 | kd8ikt | some guy was tellin me in #openwrt how he has bricked lots of routers and i said "think you woulda learned your lesson the first time ;) |
| 03:05.15 | kd8ikt | :D |
| 03:07.16 | *** join/#openmoko moo--- (n=quassel@oul110-gw10.netplaza.fi) |
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| 03:40.26 | slaxxin | latest om |
| 03:41.10 | slaxxin | updating my user experience;) |
| 03:41.20 | frojnd | Hm.. it just occured to me. How hard would it be to make an utility that would convert voice into txt, so no hand typing sms, no hand chatting on msn... the program that would know your vioce and convert it to txt. |
| 03:41.30 | frojnd | Does that kinda of program even exist on linux ? |
| 03:41.34 | rooly | sure |
| 03:41.52 | rooly | speech to text is rather common, and so is the other way around |
| 03:42.16 | frojnd | rooly: I'd like to test it on the linux box |
| 03:42.21 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=dougt@c-69-181-65-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:42.47 | rooly | i would think it wouldn't work all that well on an international phone |
| 03:43.09 | frojnd | why not ? |
| 03:43.16 | slaxxin | kmouth |
| 03:43.20 | rooly | hundred of different languages to support... |
| 03:43.27 | rooly | unless you decided to modularise it |
| 03:43.54 | frojnd | rooly: true, but I'd like to help to work for my mother language.. |
| 03:43.58 | raster | frojnd: there is a reason that stuff doesnt work mostly |
| 03:44.00 | raster | 1. irs hard |
| 03:44.00 | frojnd | it would be awesome :) and fast |
| 03:44.03 | raster | 2. compute-expensive |
| 03:44.09 | raster | 3. people dont WANT IT |
| 03:44.12 | raster | why? |
| 03:44.21 | raster | i dont want to let everyone on the bus HEAR my sms message |
| 03:44.25 | frojnd | raster: ebkight me, I like it :) |
| 03:44.27 | raster | and they dont want to hear it either |
| 03:44.49 | frojnd | raster: true, but when alone and chatting to a gf somewere abroad |
| 03:44.49 | raster | in fact in many cultures even answering a phone on a bus or train for example is considered very rude |
| 03:44.54 | raster | so hgaving messages spoken out to you |
| 03:45.01 | rooly | it would be useful in some instances, but usually rather annoying, especially if it's picking up background chatter |
| 03:45.04 | raster | and talking to write them is just not going to be accepted |
| 03:45.15 | raster | but the main point is |
| 03:45.19 | raster | it has niche usefulness |
| 03:45.21 | slaxxin | then there are the mistakes |
| 03:45.24 | raster | its not widely desired |
| 03:45.25 | *** join/#openmoko DocScrutinizer (n=jr@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 03:45.34 | frojnd | looks like I'm on my own :) |
| 03:45.38 | raster | thus it just doesnt warrant a lot of the effort/resources/money/time |
| 03:45.39 | raster | :) |
| 03:45.41 | raster | yeah |
| 03:45.44 | slaxxin | the wolf |
| 03:45.45 | raster | its also just not accurate enough |
| 03:46.34 | frojnd | raster: artificial intelligence ;) |
| 03:46.45 | frojnd | lack of that imho |
| 03:47.30 | slaxxin | might work for a fie clerk in an office |
| 03:48.08 | slaxxin | for pulling up files only |
| 03:48.34 | slaxxin | ohmm |
| 03:48.58 | slaxxin | ooo nos boots |
| 03:49.44 | frojnd | nah I gotta go to sleep it's 4:50 am |
| 03:49.47 | frojnd | gn8 |
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| 04:09.21 | kd8ikt | can imagine me sending an sms via voice |
| 04:10.06 | kd8ikt | " *censored* " ;) |
| 04:11.24 | rooly | meh |
| 04:13.12 | kd8ikt | ironman had speech to text ;) |
| 04:13.51 | kd8ikt | holograms and an arc reactors |
| 04:13.53 | rooly | ironman was a bored billionaire |
| 04:14.10 | kd8ikt | but atleast he was a mosochist diy guy |
| 04:14.18 | kd8ikt | gotta respect that |
| 04:14.22 | rooly | he also had a minority-report-esque holographic interface |
| 04:14.45 | kd8ikt | he didnt just throw money at people to do everything for him he actually did stuff |
| 04:15.12 | kd8ikt | hot rods and choppers |
| 04:15.34 | kd8ikt | heh |
| 04:15.55 | kd8ikt | also it was very fictitious |
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| 04:16.39 | raster | and hot women |
| 04:16.46 | raster | its got to be fictitious |
| 04:17.07 | kd8ikt | nah startrek was real! with really beautifull women |
| 04:17.31 | kd8ikt | fic-titi-ous |
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| 04:22.15 | rooly | lol |
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| 04:22.35 | slaxxin | fabricators |
| 04:22.41 | rooly | wait...that emphasis makes me see the pronunciation "fic-shi-shi-oos" |
| 04:24.15 | slaxxin | man i hope this om upgrade is actually improving something |
| 04:24.53 | kd8ikt | how do you get shi-shi from tity? |
| 04:25.42 | kd8ikt | ( . Y . ) |
| 04:26.00 | slaxxin | biggins |
| 04:26.13 | kd8ikt | must be azn or somethin |
| 04:26.48 | slaxxin | lost in translation |
| 04:26.49 | rooly | same way i get "fish" out of ghiti |
| 04:27.03 | slaxxin | oooooooo cajun |
| 04:27.11 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 04:27.24 | rooly | enough, -tion...how hard is that to see? |
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| 04:28.37 | slaxxin | wheeeeeeewwwww |
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| 04:29.31 | slaxxin | a hugh amount of action going on with the om upgrade |
| 04:29.34 | rooly | hmm...is that pronounced using the "hw-" method? |
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| 04:30.15 | slaxxin | no it means that thr previous post went all the way over my head |
| 04:30.40 | rooly | we are on different pages i believe |
| 04:30.46 | slaxxin | lol |
| 04:30.53 | slaxxin | sorry |
| 04:30.59 | slaxxin | <PROTECTED> |
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| 05:00.47 | slaxxin | well settings is the first thing that wont work |
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| 05:37.01 | rooly | sighs |
| 05:37.08 | rooly | no gsm dialup it seems |
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| 05:37.46 | slaxxin | yea i guess shr |
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| 05:38.09 | slaxxin | no action there today |
| 05:38.10 | rooly | at least, i haven't gotten my one try to work yet |
| 05:38.36 | slaxxin | settings refuses to come up |
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| 05:42.28 | rooly | iunno |
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| 06:01.53 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03erin 07org.openmoko.dev * r7da955a109cf 10/packages/ (3 files in 3 dirs): add opd_args file to append arguments for starting opd |
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| 07:11.24 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03roh * r4839 10/developers/roh/CHY48R_test.py: * add more RE details |
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| 07:28.52 | FilipLinux4 | hi all, i see latest android is available at http://people.openmoko.org/sean_mcneil/ ; anyone tried already ? |
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| 07:45.55 | pieterc | I'm flashing android atm... |
| 07:47.46 | Sargun | neat |
| 07:47.47 | Sargun | good luck |
| 07:47.56 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@edu-33.212.zhaw.ch) |
| 07:47.58 | pieterc | thanks ;) |
| 07:48.00 | pieterc | hah |
| 07:52.14 | *** join/#openmoko HauDyr (n=kim@wnn73219.wireless.dtu.dk) |
| 07:55.50 | gromez | what are the improvements in the latest android image ? |
| 07:56.58 | pieterc | don't know, didn't try the last one |
| 07:57.04 | pieterc | but bluetooth doesn't seem to work |
| 07:57.11 | pieterc | -testing it |
| 07:57.13 | pieterc | - |
| 07:58.16 | gromez | in the previous one, bluetooth scanning was ok |
| 07:58.19 | *** join/#openmoko anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5B07FFD9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:58.33 | gromez | but i didn't try to pair with another device |
| 07:58.35 | *** join/#openmoko Proton23 (n=proton@p57BA5B4F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:58.56 | pieterc | when i try to put it on |
| 07:58.59 | pieterc | it gives an error |
| 07:59.09 | pieterc | camera works fine though |
| 07:59.13 | pieterc | -ok, just joking- |
| 07:59.32 | pieterc | there should be a keyboard in it |
| 07:59.34 | pieterc | but i don't find it |
| 08:05.15 | pieterc | hm... |
| 08:05.25 | pieterc | I really don't get how to open the keyboard app |
| 08:09.34 | *** join/#openmoko richy (n=Richy@77.23.96.1) |
| 08:09.43 | gurugentoo | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:09.43 | gurugentoo | the existing phones have actual keys |
| 08:10.29 | pieterc | http://n2.nabble.com/-Android--OnScreen-Keyboard-tp1583918p1583918.html |
| 08:10.57 | gurugentoo | pieterc: I stand corrected |
| 08:11.10 | *** join/#openmoko kwek (n=kwek@188.Red-213-97-48.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 08:11.16 | gurugentoo | cool |
| 08:12.34 | pieterc | yeah... but it doesn't seem to be implemented :( |
| 08:13.03 | gurugentoo | or at least the image you flashed didn't actually have it included |
| 08:13.16 | pieterc | it's the image released by sean |
| 08:14.57 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:15.23 | pieterc | hi |
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| 08:34.18 | vishal | hello everyone |
| 08:34.45 | pieterc | hii |
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| 08:41.35 | pieterc | and android still won't run without power adapter attached |
| 08:44.31 | *** join/#openmoko Isajha (n=Isajha4@wrzb-4d00ced4.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 08:48.09 | vininim | "unlocked freerunner" :D |
| 08:51.34 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@edu-33.212.zhaw.ch) |
| 08:52.38 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03roh * r4840 10/developers/roh/CHY48R_test.py: * fix typo |
| 08:55.39 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03jeremy * rba3f443faec4 10/src/server/phone/dialer/touch/dialer.cpp: [dialer] Use show() instead of showMaximized() when launching "select |
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| 09:03.19 | gecco | goodmorning |
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| 09:09.31 | Hire | someone has tested the new android image? |
| 09:09.51 | pieterc | yes i did |
| 09:09.54 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@140.78.95.51) |
| 09:10.01 | pieterc | Not much usable :( |
| 09:10.06 | Hire | the new kernel doesn't work .. |
| 09:10.09 | pieterc | indeed |
| 09:10.13 | pieterc | use the old one |
| 09:10.21 | pieterc | bluetooth doesn't seem to work |
| 09:10.25 | pieterc | keyboard not implemented |
| 09:10.34 | pieterc | gives 2 errors at startup |
| 09:10.39 | pieterc | doesn't work without the charger |
| 09:10.47 | pieterc | ... reflashing atm ;) |
| 09:11.15 | Hire | i see |
| 09:11.21 | Hire | i want only to test it .. |
| 09:12.02 | *** join/#openmoko theblackbox (n=sam@unaffiliated/theblackbox) |
| 09:12.07 | pieterc | me too actually :) |
| 09:12.24 | pieterc | but even then ... I'll let Sean put in more work ;) |
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| 09:15.03 | vininim | argh, I forgot to format sd card for android. *slaps forehead* |
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| 09:16.14 | pieterc | I rly thought the keyboard would 've been included |
| 09:16.29 | pieterc | -don't forget to attach it to a wallcharger ;) - |
| 09:16.51 | pieterc | I'll go now |
| 09:16.55 | pieterc | studying and stuff |
| 09:16.59 | pieterc | gots to be done too i guess |
| 09:17.01 | pieterc | bye |
| 09:17.19 | vininim | gl, bye |
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| 09:33.26 | Hire | uhm |
| 09:33.46 | Hire | i don't see any improvement on this new image of Android |
| 09:33.54 | Hire | no keyboard, no other apps as Maps |
| 09:34.06 | Hire | i can't accept incoming calls |
| 09:34.35 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03tick 07org.openmoko.dev * r12214176d908 10/conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc: Assassin: Bump up assassin to 268 |
| 09:36.22 | ronny | Hire: the keyboard is supposed to be made by google in january |
| 09:37.03 | Hire | i know it |
| 09:37.19 | Hire | but rui implements a onscreen keyboard that seems to work |
| 09:40.09 | vininim | Hire: it's not in sean image? |
| 09:40.51 | Hire | no |
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| 09:45.23 | vininim | om-daily is really snappy, nice work from the optimization team |
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| 09:53.35 | vininim | heh.. what is the default network config in om-daily, my last script that used work with shr/fdom/2008.9 is not working with it(and it has no terminal o_O) |
| 09:55.54 | *** join/#openmoko budfive5f (n=asdf@cpe-76-95-115-142.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 09:56.02 | budfive5f | anybody using a freerunner with AT&T in the US? |
| 09:56.41 | DocScrutinizer2 | the ones who updated to MOKO10? |
| 09:57.04 | budfive5f | anyone, i guess. I'm still seeing wonky registration behavior after the update |
| 09:58.02 | DocScrutinizer2 | elaborate please |
| 09:58.46 | *** join/#openmoko madwoota (n=mad@64.32.12.159) |
| 09:58.49 | budfive5f | running moko10. qtopia registers just fine every time (takes about 2 minutes). fso does about 20% of the time. android didn't the one time i tried |
| 09:59.30 | DocScrutinizer2 | so seems this is a disri/userland issue, no? |
| 09:59.40 | budfive5f | looked at the fso log, but it's not obvious to me what's broken. wondering what others with at&t are seeing and which SIMs they're using |
| 10:00.32 | DocScrutinizer2 | sorry, can't help beyond MOKO10 |
| 10:00.35 | henk | vininim: it should be 192.168.0.202/28 afair |
| 10:00.44 | budfive5f | it's useland on some level, but i suspect the culprit is the long registration time. fso probably doesn't handle a delay that long properly. if some other SIM produces faster registrations, i'd like to know about it |
| 10:01.06 | henk | vininim: didn't work the first time for me either. try rebooting and replugging it. |
| 10:01.15 | lindi- | budfive5f: it's trivial to add longer timeout to fso? |
| 10:01.20 | henk | vininim: i managed to get it to work after some tries. |
| 10:01.33 | budfive5f | lindi-: yep. tried it. didn't help... |
| 10:01.47 | lindi- | budfive5f: then it's not about long reg time |
| 10:01.59 | lindi- | budfive5f: can you make calls manually? |
| 10:02.43 | budfive5f | lindi-: no. it doesn't register. the FSO log confirms this. I did play with manual registration and it works just fine after a few minutes |
| 10:03.53 | budfive5f | lindi-: AT+CFUN=1 ; AT+COPS=0 ; wait for a few minutes works when registering manually |
| 10:03.59 | DocScrutinizer2 | so this might be #1024? |
| 10:04.26 | lindi- | budfive5f: ok, got a bug report about this in freesmartphone.org? |
| 10:04.43 | budfive5f | lindi-: yeah. i posted one. |
| 10:05.27 | budfive5f | lindi-: i'm sure somebody will look at it. Mostly curious about other people's registration times, and what different types of SIMs control |
| 10:05.43 | budfive5f | lindi-: are all SIMs effectively identical after the GSM firmware update? |
| 10:06.31 | *** join/#openmoko EverSlick (n=clemens@91-113-56-82.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 10:06.56 | lindi- | i doubt |
| 10:07.06 | DocScrutinizer2 | MOKO10 fixed a bug in sim-recognition |
| 10:07.13 | vininim | henk: yeah, rebooting did it, thanks. |
| 10:07.29 | *** join/#openmoko madwoota (n=mad@64.32.12.159) |
| 10:07.42 | DocScrutinizer2 | maybe other side effects |
| 10:07.58 | lindi- | we don't know, the changelog is missing ;) |
| 10:08.26 | DocScrutinizer2 | but there is no known mechanism delaying registration of particular sims |
| 10:08.54 | budfive5f | :) I'm still a bit surprised a user-upgradeable firmware was released at all. Thought it was illegal due to the FCC laws and such |
| 10:09.04 | DocScrutinizer2 | lindi-: *you* are missing it ;-) |
| 10:09.48 | DocScrutinizer2 | we just did it |
| 10:10.08 | DocScrutinizer2 | no issues with FCC |
| 10:10.27 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer2: oh, was it on mailing list already? ;) |
| 10:10.47 | DocScrutinizer2 | our FW is clean. You could hack your own, and that would be worse |
| 10:11.00 | DocScrutinizer2 | lindi-: nope |
| 10:11.03 | Wonka | i suppoe http://madwifi-project.org/wiki/news/20081129/sam-leffler-releases-hal-source is now widely known around here... |
| 10:11.20 | DocScrutinizer2 | but *I* may look at it ;-) |
| 10:11.59 | vishal | hello friends, im using neo for the first time |
| 10:12.13 | vishal | i have installed agpsui test ap and gone in open place i get reception.. |
| 10:12.14 | budfive5f | so is it normal to see a registration take a few minutes? is anybody seeing that? |
| 10:12.43 | DocScrutinizer2 | usually not |
| 10:12.52 | lindi- | budfive5f: now we'll just wait for somebody to implement AT%JAM-THE-NETWORK command :P |
| 10:13.02 | budfive5f | :) |
| 10:13.10 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 10:13.11 | budfive5f | DocScrutinizer2: what's normal? a few seconds? |
| 10:13.27 | DocScrutinizer2 | 30sec maybe |
| 10:13.40 | budfive5f | DocScrutinizer2: thx |
| 10:14.30 | DocScrutinizer2 | depends on network situation. but a few minutes sounds too long |
| 10:14.52 | DocScrutinizer2 | are you remote area? |
| 10:15.08 | DocScrutinizer2 | or urban |
| 10:15.13 | budfive5f | ciry |
| 10:15.17 | budfive5f | city i mean |
| 10:15.41 | budfive5f | my ancient nokia registers almost immediately |
| 10:15.41 | DocScrutinizer2 | hmm, should be much faster usually, unless roaming |
| 10:16.08 | vishal | wat is libubx ? how should i use it? |
| 10:16.45 | DocScrutinizer2 | probably Mickey and maybe Dieter/me might be interested in some logs anyway |
| 10:17.14 | budfive5f | DocScrutinizer2: i posted a bug on fso.org a few days ago. #255 if you care. |
| 10:17.19 | DocScrutinizer2 | have a ticket#? |
| 10:17.28 | DocScrutinizer2 | ahh ok |
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| 10:27.44 | *** part/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@210.13.121.62) |
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| 10:44.33 | DocScrutinizer2 | budfive5f: btw, wich old nokia? |
| 10:44.39 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|ICxyz (n=mickey@92.116.251.219) |
| 10:44.52 | DocScrutinizer2 | s/wi/whi/ |
| 10:45.30 | budfive5f | DocScrutinizer2: nokia 6102 |
| 10:45.43 | DocScrutinizer2 | ah, ok |
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| 10:46.16 | DocScrutinizer2 | (dunno this one) |
| 10:46.26 | budfive5f | DocScrutinizer2: running a few more tests with the moko. seems that i get registration 110 seconds from the AT+COPS=0 command. This seems to be consistent. Very weird |
| 10:46.55 | DocScrutinizer2 | hmm, not exactly a bug |
| 10:47.26 | DocScrutinizer2 | maybe calypso takes a while to scan al 3 bands |
| 10:47.31 | budfive5f | the default registration timeout in fso was 30 seconds. bumping this up to 180 seconds didn't help (only tried this once). Would an expired timeout cause it to never register? |
| 10:47.57 | DocScrutinizer2 | dunno, I'm not FSO |
| 10:48.07 | budfive5f | ah, right. sorry. |
| 10:48.10 | DocScrutinizer2 | ask me FW or HW |
| 10:48.30 | budfive5f | the nokia is triband also, but it was sold by the carrier so maybe it scans the "correct" frequencies first |
| 10:48.38 | methril | morning |
| 10:48.41 | DocScrutinizer2 | mickey|flu|zzZZz: ping |
| 10:49.07 | DocScrutinizer2 | hmm, seems to be a real flu |
| 10:49.44 | DocScrutinizer2 | ahhh, |
| 10:49.52 | DocScrutinizer2 | mickey|ICxyz: ping |
| 10:50.04 | Cervajz | Hello there |
| 10:50.17 | Cervajz | I have a strange problem with latest testing image |
| 10:51.24 | Cervajz | When I set -profile illume in /etc/enlightenment/default_profile then Enlightenment ends with SEGV after start of system |
| 10:51.56 | Cervajz | I want illume keyboard in testing, but this way itsn't working :( |
| 10:53.43 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r20a413624549 10/ (4 files in 2 dirs): ogsmd: connection sharing now works |
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| 11:03.32 | vininim | Is there a mkfs.vfat ipkg? |
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| 11:08.59 | gromez | vininim: dosfstools something like that |
| 11:11.04 | vininim | s 2 |
| 11:12.13 | vininim | that's it, thanks. |
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| 11:21.50 | Wonka | DocScrutinizer2: is there a changelog from moko10-beta2 to moko10? |
| 11:22.35 | DocScrutinizer2 | changes are near ZERO. |
| 11:22.39 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@vpn-global-dhcp3-064.ethz.ch) |
| 11:22.51 | DocScrutinizer2 | version string changed |
| 11:23.36 | Wonka | mhkay... |
| 11:25.08 | Wonka | does anything decide anything based on version string? |
| 11:25.28 | mickey|ICxyz | no |
| 11:26.06 | *** join/#openmoko ptitjes (n=didier@110.73.198-77.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 11:26.14 | Wonka | ok, then my next project will be hacking a little at zhone to make it show more information - like GPS time |
| 11:26.22 | Wonka | and velocity |
| 11:26.29 | mickey|ICxyz | cool |
| 11:26.44 | mickey|ICxyz | i have a wicked plan for zhone |
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| 11:27.09 | Wonka | i know it is only a demo app, but at least the gps stuff is quite cool actually |
| 11:27.13 | DocScrutinizer2 | tell us more ;-) |
| 11:27.18 | mickey|ICxyz | i'll send some ideas forward next week |
| 11:27.20 | vininim | does android really take that long to boot? or tracking isn't working? |
| 11:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko Tig| (n=tigger@82.153.215.237) |
| 11:28.08 | mickey|ICxyz | brabbles about zhone becoming a framebuffer-app resting on a seperate VT |
| 11:28.14 | *** join/#openmoko tomboy64 (n=tomboy64@e178049114.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:28.23 | Wonka | this satellite display thingy in zhone is the wrong way round, btw - satellites with elevation near 90 are not shown in the center of the circle but on the edge... |
| 11:29.16 | Wonka | nother thing: i'd like buttons to reset gps, and to keep gps running when switching away from the gps stuff to something other in zhone. |
| 11:29.38 | mickey|ICxyz | sounds good |
| 11:29.55 | Wonka | and now, i need to leave - bbl. |
| 11:30.02 | mickey|ICxyz | the only thing to consider is whether you want to refactor zhone before patching it |
| 11:30.04 | mickey|ICxyz | since it has absolutely no (software) design |
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| 11:35.33 | vininim | okay, it seems uImage-tracking doesn't work with android, but uImage-android(heh) does. |
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| 11:40.30 | kd8ikt | i'm suprised shr doesnt have git installed ;) |
| 11:41.20 | kd8ikt | be nice to grab the source for things |
| 11:41.20 | CVirus | Nokia N97 is out |
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| 11:49.37 | vininim | heh back to om-daily, since beside not having a keyboard, android isn't connect GSM. |
| 11:49.43 | vininim | *connecting |
| 11:51.05 | kd8ikt | connected for me |
| 11:51.12 | kd8ikt | just couldnt answer |
| 11:51.16 | kd8ikt | :D |
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| 11:53.11 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03charlie * r4841 10/developers/charlie/Wiki/ (7 files): Update personal wiki |
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| 12:58.19 | a-st | Hello :) |
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| 13:04.27 | m0nt0 | hi, where can i find the "defconfig-gta02" file? the kernel guide say that it is inside the check out but i can't find it, may be it has been moved somewhere else, anyone know where i can find it? |
| 13:04.44 | lindi- | m0nt0: it was removed |
| 13:04.51 | m0nt0 | nuuuu |
| 13:05.04 | lindi- | m0nt0: did you do git clone git://git.openmoko.org/git/kernel.git linux-2.6? |
| 13:05.12 | m0nt0 | yes |
| 13:05.17 | lindi- | m0nt0: after something like git branch lindi origin/stable-tracking |
| 13:05.36 | m0nt0 | yes, andy-traking branch |
| 13:06.03 | lindi- | m0nt0: try ./arch/arm/configs/gta02-moredrivers-defconfig |
| 13:06.18 | m0nt0 | ok |
| 13:06.27 | m0nt0 | thank you |
| 13:06.45 | m0nt0 | i was looking for something similar, a preconfigured default file |
| 13:06.49 | m0nt0 | thanks |
| 13:07.21 | lindi- | m0nt0: see #2078 if you want to use SD |
| 13:09.15 | m0nt0 | lindi-: thanks |
| 13:09.43 | lindi- | maybe we should have some sort of #kernelnewbies-openmoko :) |
| 13:10.03 | m0nt0 | :D |
| 13:10.18 | m0nt0 | no we need only to update the wiki pages |
| 13:10.26 | lindi- | m0nt0: but for discussing things |
| 13:10.34 | m0nt0 | ah yes |
| 13:10.54 | m0nt0 | i'd like to work on the bad bad 1841 WSOD bug |
| 13:11.04 | lindi- | m0nt0: http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/kernel.txt is how i test kernels on debian |
| 13:11.09 | lindi- | i have never seen WSOD |
| 13:11.15 | lindi- | hmm, actually once |
| 13:11.24 | lindi- | but that was due to bad kexec |
| 13:11.24 | a-st | Hello, i'm new to openmoko. I heard of it and now i want to try it on my cellphone (xda comet). Is that possible? |
| 13:11.39 | lindi- | a-st: openmoko is not a single software stack |
| 13:11.55 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 13:12.26 | a-st | I would like to have the software/os like on the screenshots ;) |
| 13:12.45 | m0nt0 | lindi-: i'm affected by this bug and now that the winter has come i can't use my FR as a phone because of this, so i'd like at least to see if i can understand something |
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| 13:13.07 | m0nt0 | i don't pretend to solve it but at least to look at the module code |
| 13:13.55 | lindi- | m0nt0: ok |
| 13:14.03 | a-st | lindi-, is that possible to run it on a xda comet? |
| 13:14.09 | lindi- | a-st: never heard of xda comet |
| 13:14.12 | lindi- | a-st: i run debian |
| 13:14.16 | Defiant- | I have the whitescreen with OM2008 kernel but doesn't with the debian one |
| 13:15.02 | lindi- | Defiant-: can you reproduce it? |
| 13:15.16 | a-st | lindi-, the xda comet is a smartphone |
| 13:15.22 | lindi- | a-st: that does not tell me much ;) |
| 13:15.35 | a-st | lindi-, so what do you have to know? |
| 13:15.52 | lindi- | a-st: instruction set |
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| 13:16.00 | lindi- | a-st: whether linux has drivers for it |
| 13:16.43 | Defiant- | lindi-: With OM2008.9 I got the problem almost everytime I went outside. With the current kernel in Debian unstable the problem hasn't occured so far. At least not that I can remember. |
| 13:16.44 | a-st | How can i check that? |
| 13:17.25 | lindi- | a-st: quite open question |
| 13:18.27 | a-st | lindi-, thats the phone: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Atom |
| 13:18.29 | lindi- | a-st: wikipedia has very many xda models |
| 13:18.36 | mickey|ICxyz | openmoko is only working on kernels for their own models. the userland stack is pretty much portable to everything that runs linux, _if_ you can get a kernel running on your device |
| 13:19.26 | lindi- | is there some standalone tool for uploading AGPS data to /dev/ttySAC1? i can see only talks about agps-gui |
| 13:21.07 | a-st | mickey|ICxyz, How do i check if "a" kernel works? |
| 13:21.24 | Defiant- | it boots :) |
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| 13:23.59 | a-st | Is there an howto? Where do i get a kernel? how do i boot it? |
| 13:25.17 | lindi- | a-st: if you want to port linux to a new architecture you need to spend a few months learning things :) |
| 13:25.39 | Defiant- | "a few" |
| 13:27.00 | a-st | lindi-, its an arm architecture |
| 13:27.21 | lindi- | a-st: still :) |
| 13:27.58 | a-st | I thought openmoko also runs on arm |
| 13:28.21 | Defiant- | Its still not the same |
| 13:29.45 | a-st | :( |
| 13:30.02 | a-st | So there is no easy way to get rid of windows mobile? |
| 13:30.55 | Defiant- | Have you tried google linux on htc atom yet? |
| 13:31.08 | Tm_T | google linux? |
| 13:31.33 | a-st | no |
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| 13:32.49 | Defiant- | a-st: Looks like some people are working on it http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Xanadux |
| 13:34.22 | a-st | okay ;) |
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| 13:37.41 | a-st | so i have to wait till then |
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| 13:57.57 | a-st | So it's not a Smartphone...its a Pocket PC |
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| 14:14.52 | wizkoder | hy everybody |
| 14:17.07 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201.45.49.162) |
| 14:17.17 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 14:17.24 | *** part/#openmoko kdean06 (n=Kevin@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 14:17.34 | *** join/#openmoko Zorkman (n=zork@78-22-123-127.access.telenet.be) |
| 14:19.33 | *** join/#openmoko tjikkun (n=tjikkun@195-240-122-237.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 14:20.03 | *** join/#openmoko krau[away] (n=root@200.184.118.130) |
| 14:20.07 | *** join/#openmoko DocScrutinizer2 (n=jr-N810@118-166-69-15.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 14:21.50 | *** join/#openmoko tobyS (i=crazyuse@hartes-php.de) |
| 14:23.27 | Fougner | eey =D |
| 14:23.33 | Fougner | Dave, ! |
| 14:23.49 | *** join/#openmoko Torikun (n=rusher@67.112.215.16) |
| 14:23.55 | Torikun | The G1 Phone kicks ass! |
| 14:24.05 | Torikun | anyone get it? |
| 14:24.45 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@edu-62.202.zhaw.ch) |
| 14:25.02 | *** join/#openmoko sibbe (i=jvtm@omni.byte.fi) |
| 14:25.09 | Tm_T | Torikun: you do? |
| 14:25.23 | Torikun | yup |
| 14:25.36 | Torikun | I had to replace my freerunner with a working phone that runs linux |
| 14:25.46 | wizkoder | I do not have an openmoko machine yet. trying to get the qemu running.... |
| 14:25.57 | Torikun | want my phone for $100 |
| 14:26.29 | Torikun | ? |
| 14:26.30 | Torikun | lol |
| 14:26.30 | lindi- | Torikun: does it run emacs? ;) |
| 14:26.36 | Torikun | dunno |
| 14:26.44 | Torikun | sure it does |
| 14:26.57 | mjr | I think the question is, does it run anything google doesn't want it to... |
| 14:27.10 | Dave | Torikun! |
| 14:27.15 | Torikun | I will sell my openMoko FreeRunner for $100 |
| 14:27.15 | Torikun | lol |
| 14:27.16 | Torikun | Dave: |
| 14:27.18 | Torikun | ! |
| 14:27.25 | Torikun | Android is so awesome |
| 14:27.26 | Dave | so........... ebay? |
| 14:27.58 | SpeedEvil | needs FR. |
| 14:28.11 | SpeedEvil | oh well. |
| 14:28.22 | Torikun | Emacs amazed me actually |
| 14:28.24 | Torikun | so feature rich |
| 14:28.39 | SpeedEvil | Torikun: can it make and recieve calls, and does suspend work? |
| 14:28.44 | bumbl | Torikun: hmm I would take it for 50⬠:p I need a new paperweight |
| 14:28.49 | SpeedEvil | emacs! Yet another software stack. |
| 14:28.49 | Torikun | Yes under Qtopia SpeedEvil |
| 14:29.33 | SpeedEvil | Anyway - I can't do even $100 ATM, so it's irrelevant :) |
| 14:29.37 | Torikun | ah |
| 14:29.38 | SpeedEvil | Plus, no time. |
| 14:29.41 | Dave | Speedevil :( |
| 14:29.43 | bumbl | the curch of emacs will get you SpeedEvil an proseytize you |
| 14:29.47 | Torikun | I live in the US so its GSM |
| 14:29.59 | Torikun | I would hate to use emacs in the console |
| 14:30.11 | bumbl | anywayL |
| 14:30.12 | Dave | hah |
| 14:30.15 | bumbl | vim is better |
| 14:30.32 | Dave | \o/ |
| 14:30.40 | Torikun | nano ftw |
| 14:30.49 | nano- | indeed |
| 14:31.09 | Torikun | oh Hi nano- |
| 14:31.10 | Torikun | lol |
| 14:31.12 | nano- | ofc knows that emacs is better |
| 14:31.22 | bumbl | lol |
| 14:32.36 | *** join/#openmoko surf2me (n=surfer@unixboard/users/surf2me) |
| 14:33.04 | Dave | nano, you suck |
| 14:33.12 | Dave | You wouldn't even build correctly on the freerunner! |
| 14:35.04 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rd3cf8ca82d26 10/fsod/ (6 files in 4 dirs): |
| 14:35.04 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 1.) Fix build errors when compiling with vala 0.5.2 (Thanks playya) |
| 14:35.04 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 2.) Remove vapi/fsod.gidl |
| 14:35.40 | _Bill_ | lol.. every once in a while.. emacs vs vi :P |
| 14:36.02 | _Bill_ | Eight Megabytes And Still Swapping vs Very Infantile |
| 14:39.29 | wizkoder | anybody here that has the qemu running? I had to change the scripts to get at least something working. now qemu starts (u-boot displays the startup screen) but I cannot get past that point |
| 14:40.06 | bumbl | and as always vim wins :p (i use both, but not frequently [vim more frequently because I use vim for editing confs]) |
| 14:40.28 | Dave | hell yeah! |
| 14:40.40 | Wonka | re |
| 14:40.43 | _Bill_ | s/Still/continuosly/ |
| 14:40.49 | _Bill_ | apt: yeah |
| 14:40.50 | apt | rumour has it, yeah is YEAH |
| 14:40.59 | _Bill_ | recalled it wrong the first time |
| 14:41.03 | Dave | o.O |
| 14:41.20 | Dave | Bill, sense not you make |
| 14:41.26 | Wonka | apt commit suicide |
| 14:41.27 | apt | Hehe my survival instinct prevents me from killing myself |
| 14:41.39 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 14:41.57 | bumbl | apt log off then |
| 14:42.12 | *** join/#openmoko anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5B07FFD9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:42.41 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|leipzig (n=mickey@92.116.8.202) |
| 14:42.42 | _Bill_ | dave: taken by the dark side you are.... |
| 14:43.08 | *** join/#openmoko HauDyr (n=kim@79.142.229.123.static.knet.bolignet.dk) |
| 14:43.33 | Lazy_lulu | says "I'm your mother Dave" |
| 14:43.54 | *** join/#openmoko nio_ (n=nio@86.92.255.117) |
| 14:44.00 | Tm_T | hi mother dave, where's our daddy dave ? |
| 14:45.05 | a-st | Does OpenMoko run on a PocketPC (Windows Mobile 6 Pro)? |
| 14:45.29 | Tm_T | a-st: err |
| 14:45.36 | Tm_T | Openmoko is operating system |
| 14:46.00 | Tm_T | PPC is another, well, operating system (I believe in this case) |
| 14:46.00 | *** join/#openmoko DerHorst (n=Horst@e176108027.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:47.54 | a-st | Tm_T, i woul like to run the openmoko on my xda comet but don't know hoe |
| 14:48.08 | Tm_T | a-st: and prolly you cant |
| 14:48.20 | *** part/#openmoko Torikun (n=rusher@67.112.215.16) |
| 14:48.52 | a-st | What is the Problem? |
| 14:49.08 | Tm_T | a-st: you need to get drivers for your hardware |
| 14:49.27 | bumbl | a-st: if linux runs on it |
| 14:49.31 | henk | it's like running a distribution specifically made for the xbox on a ps2... |
| 14:49.33 | bumbl | openmoko can run on it too |
| 14:49.35 | Tm_T | bumbl: see what I said =) |
| 14:49.40 | Daramarak | regedit |
| 14:49.52 | Daramarak | sorry :) |
| 14:50.01 | bumbl | Tm_T: :) |
| 14:50.07 | a-st | so its smthing like LFS? :P |
| 14:50.15 | Dave | :p |
| 14:50.28 | Dave | omfg |
| 14:50.31 | Zorkman | openmoko can't run on anything |
| 14:50.31 | Tm_T | a-st: no, it's more like "blind-coding linux from scratch" |
| 14:50.31 | Dave | openmokoxbox |
| 14:50.35 | Zorkman | crawl, or fall maybe.... |
| 14:50.37 | Dave | Zorkman, huhu :D |
| 14:50.39 | Tm_T | Dave: !!! |
| 14:51.08 | Zorkman | plays ACDC - Tm_T |
| 14:51.09 | Tm_T | Dave: openmokoxbox, but you still cant make a call |
| 14:51.24 | Tm_T | Zorkman: that took long time to come (:) |
| 14:51.26 | *** join/#openmoko carlominucci (n=carlomin@ip-87-238-20-61.static.adsl.cheapnet.it) |
| 14:51.26 | *** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.167.87.139) |
| 14:51.27 | Dave | :D |
| 14:51.38 | a-st | So I need a selfcompiled kernel, drivers, what else? |
| 14:51.48 | Tm_T | a-st: you have to CODE drivers |
| 14:51.50 | Zorkman | daredevil-spirit! |
| 14:51.55 | Zorkman | and the tears of a virgin |
| 14:51.57 | a-st | o.O |
| 14:52.02 | Zorkman | at least that makes my FR work |
| 14:52.09 | *** join/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@220-136-176-101.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 14:52.18 | henk | a-st: you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, right? |
| 14:52.24 | Tm_T | Zorkman: my FR works, just need some recharging at times |
| 14:52.27 | *** part/#openmoko charlie137 (n=guillaum@220-136-176-101.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 14:52.29 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey-t (n=emonkey@edu-62.202.zhaw.ch) |
| 14:52.34 | Tm_T | henk: he does, eventually (:) |
| 14:53.04 | nio_ | Zorkman: Do you drop the tears in the little audio jack? |
| 14:53.13 | Tm_T | a-st: unless someone has done those drivers for that hardware |
| 14:53.28 | a-st | oh okay |
| 14:53.34 | a-st | so i'll have to wait |
| 14:53.35 | Zorkman | nah, you need to inject them into the minu usbport |
| 14:53.45 | Zorkman | a-st: or buy a FR :) |
| 14:53.58 | henk | a-st: no. having no clue at all should let you come to the decision to learn, not to wait. |
| 14:54.03 | Tm_T | a-st: waiting wont help, because prolly oone will do those drivers |
| 14:54.28 | *** join/#openmoko Isajha (n=Isajha4@wrzb-4d00ced4.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 14:54.32 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-218-85.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 14:54.42 | a-st | henk, i'm a total n00b in programming xD |
| 14:54.51 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@auth-022.rz.fh-offenburg.de) |
| 14:55.55 | henk | a-st: then try to understand that in the next 2 years you will probably have no chance at all on running software for the freerunner on any other device with different hardware. |
| 14:56.24 | Tm_T | henk: except Linux hardware |
| 14:56.25 | holycow | http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/02/nokia-unveils-flagship-n97-phone/ |
| 14:56.29 | holycow | neato |
| 14:56.33 | Tm_T | holycow: not |
| 14:56.53 | Tm_T | holycow: nothing "new" really, just added keyboard to flopped n96 |
| 14:57.09 | holycow | aha |
| 14:57.10 | holycow | k |
| 14:57.27 | holycow | the keys look incredibly hard to use indeed |
| 14:58.22 | Tm_T | and the price, Nokia, this great finnish company, what do WE get? 990 ⬠pricetag <3 |
| 14:59.33 | holycow | it runs wymbian too i guess |
| 14:59.41 | Tm_T | indeed it does |
| 14:59.54 | Tm_T | nothing new on that either, shame |
| 15:01.10 | *** join/#openmoko walkie (n=walkie@ppp91-76-184-11.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) |
| 15:02.44 | *** join/#openmoko mickey (n=mickey@92.117.68.74) |
| 15:03.31 | bumbl | hmm nokia handies suck |
| 15:03.44 | bumbl | the last good and robust one I saw was the 6230 |
| 15:03.54 | Zorkman | but i heard you can call and send sms's with them :p |
| 15:04.08 | bumbl | Zorkman: that's a fairytale |
| 15:04.10 | Tm_T | Zorkman: lies! |
| 15:04.54 | Zorkman | me thinks a phone is made so you can fiddle in a terminal on a tiny keyboard and not for all that fancy hight-tech so-called "calling" and "texting" |
| 15:05.00 | bumbl | their ads only want to make you believe that nokia is connecting people |
| 15:05.15 | bumbl | Zorkman: i++ full ack |
| 15:05.38 | Tm_T | just want to do his daily irssi sessions with a phone |
| 15:05.46 | holycow | heh |
| 15:06.10 | d-b | agrees with Tm_T |
| 15:06.19 | Zorkman | wait untill my FR connects with the head of a nokia user... :p |
| 15:06.26 | holycow | doesn't see the difference between texting human -> human and human -> machine |
| 15:06.36 | d-b | Zorkman: nar. ssh ->> iphone |
| 15:07.05 | holycow | frankly i preffer machines to humans most of the time anyway |
| 15:07.14 | d-b | !moo |
| 15:09.39 | *** part/#openmoko tmarkus (n=tmarkus@82-171-150-207.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 15:10.38 | pjz | $17 for 8Gb microSD at http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/16079/Transcend-8GB-Micro-SDHC-Flash-Card-17 |
| 15:10.49 | pjz | thought people with a FR might want to know :) |
| 15:11.59 | *** join/#openmoko tg_ (i=tg@digit.drk.hu) |
| 15:14.12 | *** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-078-042-218-058.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 15:16.30 | Fougner | pjz, NO WE DON'T! |
| 15:16.31 | Fougner | =D |
| 15:16.36 | Fougner | apt kill Dave |
| 15:16.37 | apt | ACTION shoots a magneto-ionized pseudopositrino gun at Dave |
| 15:17.55 | wizkoder | the documentation for qmu + openmoko is old :-( I tried now for hours. And its simply not working.... |
| 15:21.23 | bumbl | pjz: doesn't Transcend suck? |
| 15:22.44 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peepsalo@rrcs-97-77-8-59.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 15:23.04 | *** join/#openmoko johncylee (n=john@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 15:26.02 | *** join/#openmoko unlotto (n=unlotto@ip114.rev112.brygge.net) |
| 15:27.46 | Dave | moidah! |
| 15:27.58 | lindi- | wizkoder: can you put online what you did and how it fails? |
| 15:28.41 | wizkoder | I had to change the "env" file, otherwise it did not find any files |
| 15:29.27 | wizkoder | Now I am downloading eveything from the daily/testing directory |
| 15:29.43 | *** join/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) |
| 15:30.10 | wizkoder | When I start the flash.sh it does some things and then tells me "s3c_nand_read: Bad register 0x20" |
| 15:34.57 | wizkoder | how should the 3 files be named that I build the image out of? |
| 15:35.32 | wizkoder | is gta02v5_and_up-u-boot.bin the bootloader? |
| 15:35.58 | wizkoder | and whats this "gta02v5_and_up-lowlevel.bin" ? |
| 15:36.26 | wizkoder | or do I have to use gta01bv4-u-boot.bin ? |
| 15:36.29 | wizkoder | confused :-) |
| 15:39.41 | *** join/#openmoko kennyz (n=kennyz@uralnet.org) |
| 15:41.34 | wizkoder | I have to change the scripts otherwise nothing would work at all. So I have to know which fiels I need, because I have to insert them manually :-( |
| 15:42.01 | wizkoder | -> off to the developer section .-) |
| 15:42.06 | *** part/#openmoko wizkoder (n=markus@host197a.e-pro.de) |
| 15:44.15 | *** join/#openmoko fredrin (n=workingn@r190-135-146-7.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
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| 16:00.17 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r450a65386f0e 10/fsod/src/subsystems/Device/ (5 files in 4 dirs): |
| 16:00.17 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 1.) Add InvalidState Exception when setting states or timeouts |
| 16:00.17 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 2.) Add SetTimeout method |
| 16:00.17 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 3.) Fix another build error in powercontrol |
| 16:04.59 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@122-116-62-89.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 16:06.05 | *** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu_ (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-078-042-218-212.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 16:07.24 | *** join/#openmoko alfatangoxt (n=michele@host15-52-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
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| 16:20.59 | Fougner | Dave! =d |
| 16:21.23 | Fougner | bumbl, transcend is quite crappy, what I've heard.. Sandisk is the label most people want ;) |
| 16:23.21 | *** join/#openmoko thrashold (n=europan@3mhz.net) |
| 16:25.49 | slaxxin | zfgbdfbd |
| 16:25.54 | *** join/#openmoko leachim_dot_eu (n=Leachim@HSI-KBW-078-043-157-026.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 16:26.35 | Zorkman | indeed slaxxin! |
| 16:26.54 | slaxxin | got the latest om |
| 16:27.33 | slaxxin | settings wouldnt work till opkg upgrade |
| 16:28.57 | bumbl | Fougner: yep I have a 8gb san disk µsd |
| 16:29.40 | Fougner | =) |
| 16:29.49 | Zorkman | me too |
| 16:29.49 | Fougner | bumbl, but i have TWO! HAH! |
| 16:29.58 | Zorkman | a friend of mine also has one |
| 16:30.08 | Zorkman | never had any problems (except for the Fr problems :)) |
| 16:30.37 | bumbl | Fougner: i don't need to so why the hell should i buy two |
| 16:30.44 | Fougner | because you're worth it! |
| 16:30.49 | Fougner | haa |
| 16:31.02 | Fougner | bumbl, I'm just fscking around.. don't listen to me |
| 16:31.07 | Fougner | =D |
| 16:31.11 | Fougner | apt install Dave |
| 16:31.12 | apt | ACTION runs yum -y localinstall Dave-4.2-1.noarch.rpm |
| 16:31.18 | bumbl | :) |
| 16:31.20 | bumbl | haha |
| 16:31.26 | Fougner | so, how you doin' bumbl-b? |
| 16:31.35 | Fougner | bzzzzz |
| 16:31.39 | Fougner | AH! |
| 16:31.42 | bumbl | haha |
| 16:31.43 | Fougner | you're the one in my phone! |
| 16:31.51 | Fougner | buzzing around, doin that friggin sound |
| 16:31.53 | bumbl | hello hello |
| 16:31.53 | Fougner | gaaah |
| 16:31.59 | Fougner | xD |
| 16:32.03 | Fougner | just kidding again! |
| 16:38.44 | *** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213.152.39.89) |
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| 16:52.16 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r4fecf8d41e90 10/ (ChangeLog framework/subsystems/odeviced/idlenotifier.py): |
| 16:52.16 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: odeviced: Add two new resources: 'CPU' and 'Display': |
| 16:52.16 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: Requesting the CPU resource will prevent the idle notifier from falling |
| 16:52.16 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: into the 'suspend' state, requesting the Display resource will prevent |
| 16:52.18 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: the idle notifier from falling into the 'idle_dim' (and following) state(s). |
| 16:52.20 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: With these two resource, it now takes only one additional rule to prevent |
| 16:52.22 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: the system from suspending while on a call or a musicplayer is playing. |
| 16:54.17 | Wonka | or recording a GPS track... |
| 16:54.27 | *** join/#openmoko Pander (n=chatzill@192.87.93.150) |
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| 16:58.19 | Pander | hi |
| 16:59.11 | *** join/#openmoko gcwilson (n=gcwilson@32.97.110.58) |
| 16:59.22 | *** join/#openmoko djszapi (n=djszapi@pool-1219.adsl.interware.hu) |
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| 17:06.58 | Fougner | Pander, hi =D |
| 17:07.40 | Pander | Hi F, just some smalltalk: what do you do with a Freerunner? |
| 17:07.43 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|lepizig (n=mickey@92.117.68.131) |
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| 17:12.38 | Fougner | Pander, I like small talk =D |
| 17:12.46 | Fougner | what I do? :P |
| 17:12.49 | Pander | y |
| 17:12.53 | Fougner | I throw em at Dave |
| 17:12.59 | Pander | haha |
| 17:13.01 | Fougner | apt throw mokos at Dave |
| 17:13.01 | apt | ACTION winds up and throws mokos at Dave over the moon. |
| 17:13.15 | Fougner | he's got too many of them |
| 17:13.18 | Fougner | hehe |
| 17:13.20 | Fougner | noo |
| 17:13.33 | Fougner | I've actually got one here at home... just for my geeky purposes |
| 17:13.55 | Pander | same here |
| 17:14.10 | *** join/#openmoko vininim_ (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim) |
| 17:14.21 | Fougner | I don't do anything special with it =) try to find a good distro to use on daily basis |
| 17:15.45 | Fougner | I'm using the GPS sometimes |
| 17:16.31 | Pander | I hope a new release comes out real soon + a new FDOM |
| 17:16.37 | Fougner | hehe |
| 17:16.37 | Fougner | yeah |
| 17:16.43 | Pander | I just build my first opkg this weekend |
| 17:16.43 | Fougner | FDOM is the shit |
| 17:16.49 | rooly | does the FR support gsm dialup in qt? |
| 17:17.19 | Fougner | rooly, I've tried calling in qt-extended, 4.4.2 and it worked, from what I remember |
| 17:17.32 | *** join/#openmoko magbeat (n=maege@84-73-51-236.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:17.38 | rooly | i'm trying, but it doesn't seem to be working |
| 17:17.46 | Fougner | what happens? |
| 17:18.09 | rooly | it quickly switches from 'offline' to 'pending' and right back |
| 17:18.27 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=rudi@dsbg-4db5f67e.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 17:18.37 | Fougner | I'm curious about how to get my messages on the phone, and not on the SIM though |
| 17:21.39 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@dynamic-acs-72-23-220-197.zoominternet.net) |
| 17:21.39 | nemik | dbus could do that i guess |
| 17:25.12 | *** join/#openmoko GNUtoo (n=GNUtoo@host135-150-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:25.35 | GNUtoo | hello,I downloaded the openmoko-fso-illume-image-glibc-ipk--20081120-om-gta02.rootfs.jffs2 image...but there is no zhone? |
| 17:25.49 | *** join/#openmoko samgee (n=samgee@140.35-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 17:26.45 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * rddd95420cdf8 10/fsod/src/subsystems/Device/input/ (input.plugin input.vala): Use get_device(), and remove hardcoding |
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| 17:34.13 | Fougner | GNUtoo, unlucky ;) |
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| 17:43.07 | Arthur_Dent | kills Agrajag- |
| 17:46.01 | GNUtoo | Fougner, ??? |
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| 17:46.15 | Fougner | GNUtoo, ??? |
| 17:46.30 | Tm_T | Fougner: GNUtoo: !!! |
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| 17:50.16 | GNUtoo | ok ok I install it with opkg |
| 17:50.28 | Fougner | Tm_T, =D=D |
| 17:50.43 | GNUtoo | but I wonder why there is no zhone...mabe I have choosen the wrong image |
| 17:51.00 | GNUtoo | or is it deprecated in favor of some other program? |
| 17:53.32 | ronny | GNUtoo: zhone is the fso testing program - its only in full fso images |
| 17:53.45 | GNUtoo | ok |
| 17:54.07 | GNUtoo | so I've choosen the bad image...thanks |
| 17:55.02 | slaxxin | non illume has zhone |
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| 17:56.41 | GNUtoo | ok thanks |
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| 18:10.37 | Deubeuliou | Hi |
| 18:10.44 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@fsf/member/zedstar) |
| 18:11.24 | Deubeuliou | If I want to use Qi and boot on an SD card, what do I have to do ? |
| 18:11.58 | lindi- | Deubeuliou: how do you boot from NAND with it? |
| 18:12.04 | Deubeuliou | I read Qi has no menu. So how can I force it to use the SD care ? |
| 18:12.34 | Deubeuliou | I didn't managed, actually ... I used to, but now it doesn't work. I guessed I messed the nand menu |
| 18:12.39 | Deubeuliou | *I guess |
| 18:13.23 | Deubeuliou | So, if I want to boot on the SD card, I have to use the NAND ? |
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| 18:16.16 | lindi- | Deubeuliou: no, to change the settings you have to understand your current settings ;) |
| 18:16.22 | lindi- | (I don't) |
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| 18:17.49 | Deubeuliou | on the wiki, it's not written how to change Qi's settings |
| 18:17.56 | *** join/#openmoko Wiedi (n=wiedi@newton-air.w.fruky.net) |
| 18:18.33 | Deubeuliou | oh, sorry. It boots on the card by default ... |
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| 18:31.27 | Sargun_Screen | hello |
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| 18:41.48 | GNUtoo | hello, i don't understand what's going on...vala-terminal and openmoko-terminal2 seems the same... |
| 18:42.18 | GNUtoo | before I had a different terminal but it stopped working after an update so i installed both |
| 18:42.24 | GNUtoo | and they seems the same |
| 18:43.36 | Fougner | :O |
| 18:43.44 | Fougner | that's not possible :O |
| 18:43.46 | Fougner | =D |
| 18:43.51 | *** part/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@86.56.82.74) |
| 18:44.29 | Ainulindale | GNUtoo: openmoko-terminal2 was renamed vala-terminal |
| 18:44.38 | GNUtoo | ah ok... |
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| 18:55.04 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r3b8acea05904 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/helpers.py: ogsmd: improve killall function, patch courtesy sdhillon. closes FSO ticket #260 |
| 18:57.33 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07stabilization/milestone4 * r4bc9d5ea4dd8 10framework/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/helpers.py: ogsmd: improve killall function, patch courtesy sdhillon. closes FSO ticket #260 |
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| 19:30.35 | vininim | any reason why exposure is using 100% CPU? |
| 19:30.54 | vininim | busy-waiting? |
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| 20:17.51 | Dave | Speedevil, I summon you! |
| 20:18.13 | SpeedEvil | arrives in a cloud of acid rain, and Dave dissolves. |
| 20:18.38 | sicu | mohahaha |
| 20:18.58 | Wonka | FAIL |
| 20:19.44 | Tm_T | hmmmm |
| 20:19.53 | Tm_T | maybe I have to do a bit casemodding |
| 20:20.56 | *** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/staff/sargun) |
| 20:21.06 | Tm_T | would love to have 2-3x more battery |
| 20:22.44 | Dave | :O |
| 20:22.57 | Dave | mokobatterypack! |
| 20:23.21 | Tm_T | Dave: mm? |
| 20:23.30 | Dave | Speedevil, any clues as to why I have a fix but my gpsdev spams tons of these lines with it? (it's abnormal) $GPTXT,01,01,01,NMEA unknown msg*58 |
| 20:23.41 | sicu | mokojetpack! |
| 20:24.45 | sicu | launch that FR ! |
| 20:26.12 | *** part/#openmoko BluesLee (n=malik197@85.182.50.177) |
| 20:27.09 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 20:27.24 | Dave | holycow! |
| 20:28.37 | holycow | hey! |
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| 20:34.02 | freqmod_qu | I upgraded FDOM to om 2008.testing and now i am trying to get the raster keyboard back. The only problem is that all the illume preferences icons are gone and i don't know how to get in to illume's preferences (modules etc). Does anybody know how to get in? |
| 20:34.09 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.95.252) |
| 20:34.45 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rb1207efa9725 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): |
| 20:34.45 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: ousaged: org.freesmartphone.Usage.Suspend() now returns a value instead |
| 20:34.45 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: of timing out (call did not return before the actual suspend was triggered). |
| 20:34.45 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: As an inherent result, the suspend now occurs asynchronous. |
| 20:34.45 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: This fixes FSO ticket #215. |
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| 20:44.07 | freqmod_qu | found stuff on the wiki, but not on the illume keyboard page |
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| 20:49.51 | Dave | Speeeeeeeeeeeeedeeeeeeeeeeevil |
| 20:50.02 | Fougner | Dave :D |
| 20:51.12 | jonkristian | weee, things are happening:) |
| 20:51.17 | jonkristian | DAVE |
| 20:51.26 | jonkristian | Fougner: ! |
| 20:52.08 | cjb | I wonder when the android build will be worth running |
| 20:52.13 | Fougner | jonkristian, what? what's happening? =D |
| 20:53.23 | jonkristian | Community updates |
| 20:53.23 | jonkristian | I haven't been active for a while |
| 20:54.18 | jonkristian | and softkeyboard in android:) |
| 20:54.50 | Fougner | :O |
| 20:54.53 | Fougner | wow, really? |
| 20:54.59 | Fougner | can you phone with and such? |
| 20:54.59 | jonkristian | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-November/036054.html |
| 20:55.29 | jonkristian | For Android: Walter Chang made a soft keyboard. Rui Castro implemented an OnScreen Keyboard. It was immediately included in Sean's image, to be released at the usual page without mp3 support soon. |
| 20:55.36 | Fougner | jonkristian, where to find images of Android ? |
| 20:55.44 | jonkristian | Might not be out just yet though |
| 20:55.52 | Fougner | not at all? :| |
| 20:56.05 | jonkristian | but it's pretty wicked |
| 20:56.21 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@ip-89-102-255-171.karneval.cz) |
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| 21:01.19 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rd3299e92e30c 10/ (ChangeLog framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py): |
| 21:01.19 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: ousaged: Preliminary implementation of org.freesmartphone.Usage.[Shutdown|Reboot]() -> () |
| 21:01.19 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: Send signal org.freesmartphone.Usage.SystemAction() before suspending, after resuming, |
| 21:01.19 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: before shutting down, before rebooting. This fixes FSO ticket #287. |
| 21:01.40 | GNUtoo | hello, I think I've found the reason why a lot of things doesn't cross-compile for the openmoko...the distros have libs that are too old...so is there another distro with newer libs...are there images of angstrom for the openmoko? |
| 21:01.51 | GNUtoo | s/doesn't/don't |
| 21:01.53 | *** join/#openmoko [Rui] (n=Rui@81.84.169.206) |
| 21:02.31 | GNUtoo | I'm shure they have good reason for keeping old libs... |
| 21:05.18 | GNUtoo | but as the openmoko lacks a lot of apps...i use oe for cross-compiling them...(i needs apps such as xboard,emacs,newer libwebkit etc...) but wesnoth needed work to compile and some apps don't cross-compile such as emacs...mabe they will cross-compile with newer distro? |
| 21:05.27 | *** join/#openmoko reinouts (n=reinout@s559355fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 21:05.47 | bricode | cjb: It's coming. |
| 21:06.45 | bricode | cjb: I'm testing the FR build of Android right now that's on git.koolu.org |
| 21:09.45 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * r9e43362cc005 10/ (Makefile ousage/org.freesmartphone.Usage.xml.in): |
| 21:09.45 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: ousage: document org.freesmartphone.Usage.[Shutdown|Reboot|SystemAction]() |
| 21:09.45 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: TODO: Regen docs |
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| 21:11.25 | slaxxin | has a heyboard? |
| 21:12.25 | bricode | slaxxin: I've included Rui's keyboard. |
| 21:12.35 | bricode | I'm building the image right now and haven't tested it yet. |
| 21:12.48 | jonkristian | bricode: im all up for testing:) |
| 21:13.03 | [Rui] | bricode: think it's useful? thanks :) |
| 21:13.03 | bricode | jonkristian: How about building? |
| 21:13.22 | jonkristian | well, im not yet familiar |
| 21:13.27 | bricode | [Rui]: Seems to be a good leading candidate. I saw that Google wasn't too keen on it. |
| 21:13.43 | jonkristian | oh, how come? |
| 21:13.47 | bricode | jonkristian: There are problems with us actually distributing this image as it contains codecs. |
| 21:13.54 | jonkristian | ah |
| 21:14.05 | *** join/#openmoko norro (n=norro@wikipedia/norro) |
| 21:14.09 | bricode | Google's working on a whole input framework that can be easily localized. |
| 21:14.18 | *** join/#openmoko unlotto (n=unlotto@ip114.rev112.brygge.net) |
| 21:14.31 | bricode | That's in Q1, but we wanted people to play with Android before that on the Freerunner. |
| 21:14.38 | jonkristian | :D |
| 21:14.48 | jonkristian | bricode: instructions on building anywhere around? |
| 21:15.28 | [Rui] | bricode: why? |
| 21:15.29 | bricode | Also provide a way for people to build/make changes easily. Previously it was fairly difficult to build a usable toolchain, get the source, patch it, build it, make an image, then flash it on the FR. |
| 21:15.37 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r42696e4986a8 10/framework/subsystems/ousaged/ (generic.py resources.py): ousaged: refactor resource classes into seperate module |
| 21:15.42 | bricode | [Rui]: Why to what? |
| 21:15.50 | [Rui] | bricode: why? wheren't they keen on it? |
| 21:16.39 | bricode | [Rui]: From http://review.source.android.com/3087 ... |
| 21:16.47 | bricode | I don't know anything beyond that. |
| 21:17.14 | [Rui] | bricode: just curious, because if they had suggestions I'd like to know, anything to get a better a keyboard :) |
| 21:17.37 | [Rui] | bricode: oh you meant Rui Castro's :) |
| 21:17.43 | [Rui] | bricode: sorry my confusion :) |
| 21:18.05 | bricode | [Rui]: Sorry, I thought you were one and the same. |
| 21:18.32 | [Rui] | bricode: np :) I did a keyboard for Om that's why I was curious :) |
| 21:19.59 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178065108.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:20.02 | woglinde | hi |
| 21:20.20 | woglinde | which package I need for the keyboard on the freerunner? |
| 21:20.57 | *** join/#openmoko Schugy (n=chris@Q2400.q.pppool.de) |
| 21:24.09 | *** join/#openmoko lpotter_ (n=ljp@CPE-124-191-144-181.vic.bigpond.net.au) |
| 21:36.33 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-092-075-244-073.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:39.14 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@124-170-128-137.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 21:40.12 | woglinde | raster which package do I need for the freerunner for the softkeyboard? |
| 21:42.49 | Pander | raster: i'm working on a preinst script that will make a patch of your usage of a .dic file compared to the original .dic file, and apply that patch to the new version of a .dic file when a new opkg is being installed. this way, you will keep you personal usage and your personal additions to a .dic file. |
| 21:42.50 | raster | wodwhich one? |
| 21:42.56 | raster | woglinde: which one? |
| 21:43.05 | woglinde | raster hm latest |
| 21:43.21 | raster | woglinde: which keyboard i mean |
| 21:43.24 | raster | there's lots of them |
| 21:43.28 | woglinde | zecke told me ilumne-config-ilumne to install |
| 21:43.35 | woglinde | but thats enough |
| 21:44.22 | raster | and whihc distro/os |
| 21:44.28 | woglinde | om2008 |
| 21:44.42 | woglinde | ups not enough I meant |
| 21:44.56 | raster | Pander: why do that? |
| 21:45.10 | Pander | the .dic file is being altered as you use it, correct? |
| 21:45.21 | raster | no |
| 21:45.25 | raster | the system on is untouched |
| 21:45.30 | woglinde | raster I only need one softkeyboard so I can type in letters |
| 21:45.38 | raster | ~/.e/e/dicts-dynamic/personal.dic |
| 21:45.41 | raster | is modified |
| 21:45.45 | Pander | hmm, when I was browsing the code, I came across code writing .dic |
| 21:45.51 | raster | it is an "overlay" on top of the system one |
| 21:45.53 | raster | so new words |
| 21:46.09 | raster | and existing words + new frequency values are written there |
| 21:46.12 | raster | and saved |
| 21:46.28 | Pander | OK, I thought that was in the original file. makes things easier for me |
| 21:46.45 | raster | woglinde: well illume has its own virtual veyboard built in all the time |
| 21:46.53 | raster | you just need to enable it |
| 21:47.00 | woglinde | raster and how can I activate it? |
| 21:47.03 | raster | (and disable some other one if its being used) |
| 21:47.18 | raster | well you could change theme so you get a "qwertyu" button |
| 21:47.22 | raster | to activate it |
| 21:47.27 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-218-85.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 21:47.29 | woglinde | hm |
| 21:47.32 | woglinde | okay |
| 21:47.40 | woglinde | is there a way from command line? |
| 21:47.50 | raster | no |
| 21:47.58 | woglinde | zecke somehow disabeld it in his specila image |
| 21:48.00 | woglinde | *sigh* |
| 21:48.04 | raster | oh wait |
| 21:48.10 | raster | to change theme from cmd-line |
| 21:48.15 | raster | or call kbd? |
| 21:49.00 | woglinde | hm no kbd binary |
| 21:49.03 | raster | Pander: nup. don't worry. i dont do stupid things like write to system files installed by packages from code - you have ~/.e/ for personal config and modifications |
| 21:49.16 | raster | you can add more dictionaries in there not in packages |
| 21:49.37 | raster | so any dic files in ~/.e/e/dicts/ override the system ones of the same name completely |
| 21:49.51 | raster | also you can add more of them there withouth needing special packages |
| 21:50.09 | raster | woglinde: kbd is built into the illume module |
| 21:50.12 | raster | it isnt a binary that's run |
| 21:50.13 | raster | :) |
| 21:50.18 | woglinde | hms |
| 21:50.21 | woglinde | hms |
| 21:50.45 | raster | as such 2008.x should come with qtopia's keyboard though |
| 21:50.52 | raster | (and thats inside the qpe binary) |
| 21:50.55 | lindi- | portable keyboards would be nice ;) |
| 21:50.55 | woglinde | yeah |
| 21:51.03 | lindi- | (like xvkbd :P) |
| 21:51.03 | raster | and should be automatically shown if the application sets a "i want a keyboard" hint |
| 21:51.05 | woglinde | all apps has its own variant |
| 21:51.14 | woglinde | but for my app it does not show up |
| 21:51.15 | lindi- | xvkbd is standard since '94 or so ;) |
| 21:51.23 | Pander | raster: I've packaged my .dic with license as an opkg. it has a special license BSD and/or CC so I think it has to be distributed seperately from e. or not? anyways, I'm looking for a distributor. enlightenment svn could be possible |
| 21:51.26 | raster | you need to set a window property |
| 21:51.35 | raster | that says "hey - i want a kbd" |
| 21:51.48 | woglinde | raster ah |
| 21:51.54 | woglinde | which one for e? |
| 21:52.12 | woglinde | okay |
| 21:52.19 | woglinde | will look into the doku my self |
| 21:52.22 | woglinde | its a qt app |
| 21:52.49 | lindi- | raster: is there any DM that supports that? |
| 21:53.02 | raster | Pander: if it's bsd - it's compatible with e's license. we are bsd with advert clause (and advert clause has some really lax exceptions so you dont need to advertise - just email authors or ship source (ala lgpl) to meet the advert requirements) |
| 21:53.19 | raster | woglinde: what are you writign your app with? |
| 21:53.34 | woglinde | raster it is already written |
| 21:53.40 | *** join/#openmoko opentrinity (n=opentrin@host200-5-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:53.44 | woglinde | and linked against the qt |
| 21:53.56 | raster | lindi-: wait too many thnigs at once :) dm as in gdm/kdm/xdm/entrance ? |
| 21:54.09 | lindi- | raster: yes |
| 21:54.22 | raster | qogok. then if you have an entry qt should ask for a kbd |
| 21:54.33 | Pander | raster: the authors are behind me, they let me choose BSD or CC, as long as it can be made available as a separate opkg that mentions them as source they are fine with it |
| 21:54.36 | raster | or well the qt that is built from qte on 2008.x |
| 21:54.52 | raster | lindi-: a dm that has a vkbd? |
| 21:55.01 | lindi- | raster: a dm that works with illume keyboard |
| 21:55.20 | lindi- | raster: for example xvkbd is usable with xdm |
| 21:55.33 | raster | Pander: well it's a file - it can always be made into a separate package\ |
| 21:55.45 | tifereth | anyone of you is using eric for python development? |
| 21:56.05 | raster | the question is - do you ant ot installed by default form upstream source and packages - or maintained as a separate src tree and package |
| 21:56.13 | raster | also note i likely will change dic format in the future |
| 21:56.24 | raster | i'll of course need to provide a way to import dictionaries |
| 21:56.45 | raster | lindi-: illume's kbd is part of illume |
| 21:56.57 | raster | and illume is a module you dlopen() for e |
| 21:57.02 | lindi- | raster: ok i take that as a no :) |
| 21:57.02 | raster | so you cant run it on its own |
| 21:57.17 | raster | it isnt a separate process - it's basically inside the enlightenment process |
| 21:57.30 | raster | so... until e is running - illume's kbd isnt going to do much |
| 21:57.35 | lindi- | :( |
| 21:58.03 | lindi- | if I only had infinite extra time i'd write a similar standalone prog |
| 21:59.38 | raster | hehehe |
| 21:59.43 | raster | why do you want one for a dm anyway? |
| 21:59.47 | raster | here is how i see it |
| 21:59.52 | lindi- | to enter password? ;) |
| 21:59.56 | freqmod_qu | hate all the disable of softkeyboard things in the asu theme |
| 21:59.59 | raster | devices like phones are inheernetly personal devices |
| 22:00.03 | raster | they dont have more than 1 user |
| 22:00.08 | freqmod_qu | anybody know how to get the settings icon to work? |
| 22:00.11 | raster | so u dont need a login screen to determine the user |
| 22:00.18 | Pander | On opkg.org are packages being offered as .opk and some as .ipk. What is the preferred extension? |
| 22:00.22 | SpeedEvil | raster: do you happen to know if there is any new 03 hardware boards since the decision to upgrade the SoC? |
| 22:00.23 | lindi- | raster: i might want to let people play around as guest |
| 22:00.28 | lindi- | raster: i want to have rescue account |
| 22:00.35 | lindi- | raster: i want to have account for doing online banking |
| 22:00.40 | lindi- | raster: i want to have account that has sudo privs |
| 22:00.57 | CIA-24 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r845873579b88 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/ (3 files in 3 dirs): ogsmd: unset gsm-standard hooks on modems that offer special call progress URCs |
| 22:00.58 | raster | might |
| 22:01.06 | raster | but chances are - you won't |
| 22:01.11 | raster | do you do that on your desktop? |
| 22:01.17 | raster | doi you literally log out and back in |
| 22:01.20 | raster | just to use sud? |
| 22:01.21 | lindi- | raster: yeah |
| 22:01.22 | raster | sudo? |
| 22:01.28 | raster | or log outr and in just to go visit your bank? |
| 22:01.36 | lindi- | raster: i have two X servers |
| 22:01.36 | SpeedEvil | raster: I might want to give my 8 year old a FR, where I'm the owner. |
| 22:01.44 | lindi- | raster: so no need to logout |
| 22:01.59 | lindi- | raster: and besides i use vnc for everything so logout does not kill apps |
| 22:02.01 | raster | sped i have no idea about gta03 |
| 22:02.04 | SpeedEvil | k |
| 22:02.12 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host204-226-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 22:02.16 | raster | its an ever moving target |
| 22:02.31 | raster | has been for nigh on a year |
| 22:02.46 | lindi- | raster: i'm just saying that i would lose an essential part of debian if i couldn't use multiple users |
| 22:03.00 | raster | lindi-: then the user can get back to your other sessioln and mess with it |
| 22:03.03 | raster | as its stil there |
| 22:03.04 | _charly_ | hi, what's up with the fso-testing feeds? they aren't updated since a few weeks now |
| 22:03.15 | lindi- | raster: guest user? |
| 22:03.26 | lindi- | raster: yeah with guest user i of course need to logout/lock my normal user |
| 22:03.34 | raster | i'm just saying that multiple-users imho for a phone is just not needed |
| 22:03.40 | raster | or at least you dont NEED a DM |
| 22:03.55 | lindi- | true, it's not absolute must |
| 22:04.04 | raster | you simply need a way of launching a new x + new wm with a new login |
| 22:04.12 | lindi- | but it makes a 'security password' much easier to implement |
| 22:04.22 | raster | but you dont need a "no user is logged in you just powered up the phone and you run gdm" |
| 22:04.23 | raster | mode |
| 22:04.30 | raster | 1 user always gets logged in |
| 22:04.45 | lindi- | sorry, i like my xdm login prompt :) |
| 22:05.06 | raster | because you want to turn the thing on and use it |
| 22:05.13 | raster | not have to neter a username |
| 22:05.14 | raster | then password |
| 22:05.24 | raster | then wait for half the system to keep "starting" |
| 22:05.36 | raster | also a limited 128m ram is going to make life hard to keep 2 logins at once "Sane" |
| 22:05.47 | Wonka | raster: autologin a default user or the last logged in user then? |
| 22:05.55 | raster | you can have it secured by things like "lock on startup" |
| 22:06.05 | raster | where the desktop just gets locked with your pin/pw |
| 22:06.11 | lindi- | raster: two logins at once it bit exceptional yes |
| 22:06.12 | raster | wm and everything is runing |
| 22:06.17 | raster | just nothing is accessible |
| 22:06.38 | lindi- | unless the lock app crashes :P |
| 22:06.41 | raster | Wonka: then you dont need a "dm" and thus dont need tyhe vkbd in the dm |
| 22:06.42 | raster | :) |
| 22:06.54 | raster | lindi-: and unless the DM crashes... |
| 22:06.55 | raster | :) |
| 22:07.08 | lindi- | if DM crashes you can't login :) it fails safely |
| 22:07.12 | Wonka | raster: and how do you change logged in user then? |
| 22:07.19 | raster | lindi-: but then you have a useless device |
| 22:07.30 | lindi- | raster: sure |
| 22:07.38 | lindi- | raster: but same happens if wm crashes too? |
| 22:07.40 | raster | Wonka: i'm wondering why you really want to |
| 22:07.58 | raster | lindi-: in the case of e- it just restarts itself |
| 22:07.59 | *** join/#openmoko nio_ (n=nio@5571ef58.dsl.concepts.nl) |
| 22:08.06 | Pander | raster: do I need to sort the .dic file alphabetically? |
| 22:08.07 | raster | and will go back to where it was before |
| 22:08.07 | lindi- | raster: xdm has similar logic i think |
| 22:08.08 | raster | :) |
| 22:08.11 | lindi- | raster: it still can fail |
| 22:08.17 | Wonka | raster: personally, i don't - but i can understand others wanting to |
| 22:08.21 | raster | Pander: yes |
| 22:08.21 | lindi- | at least xdm restarts crashes X |
| 22:08.25 | lindi- | s/es/ed/ |
| 22:08.32 | lindi- | grr |
| 22:08.51 | Wonka | xdm retards! |
| 22:09.24 | Pander | raster: last question for today, the .dic file is in all lower case or is it case sensitive? |
| 22:11.07 | *** join/#openmoko krau[away] (n=root@200.184.118.130) |
| 22:11.19 | SpeedEvil | tries to remember the solution to the above problem. |
| 22:11.48 | SpeedEvil | used to use back in the day on a 12M laptop a module that checksummed RAM, and merged pages that were identical. |
| 22:12.19 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 22:12.21 | SpeedEvil | http://mergemem.ist.org/ |
| 22:12.45 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: i would use asmutils |
| 22:12.56 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: ? |
| 22:12.57 | Sargun | Man, I can't wait until GTA 03 |
| 22:13.01 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: essential *nix binaries written in assembler |
| 22:13.07 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: ah |
| 22:13.08 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: they even have init, getty and a shell |
| 22:13.15 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: saves a lot of memory |
| 22:13.25 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: doesn't help so much for 7 xterms |
| 22:13.30 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: true |
| 22:13.33 | Sargun | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone < FR is 130 grams I thought? |
| 22:13.43 | lindi- | SpeedEvil: but it saves memory still |
| 22:13.52 | SpeedEvil | lindi-: as can compressed RAM |
| 22:14.17 | raster | lindi-: as such though - somethnig as simple as a desklock shouldnt crash... or a dm... :) |
| 22:14.34 | lindi- | raster: but it does :) |
| 22:14.42 | raster | Pander: it allows case and uses it - eg for names like John, but you should sort case-insensitve |
| 22:14.45 | lindi- | if it is from SVN head of the project or something like that ;) |
| 22:14.47 | raster | and matches are done cace-insensitve |
| 22:15.20 | Pander | raster: Danke |
| 22:15.50 | lindi- | raster: but in reality i'm just irritated that i can't use illume keyboard without changing my wm :) |
| 22:16.08 | woglinde | lindi- hm |
| 22:16.39 | woglinde | lindi- on the nokia nxx you cant use the softkeyboard for all apps too |
| 22:18.24 | raster | lindi-: hahahahaha |
| 22:18.45 | *** join/#openmoko khorben (n=raw@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-42-160.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:19.08 | raster | lindi-: well for me it's easier as part of e as i directly re-use infra in e but mostly it saves memory and resoruces as you dont have yet-another process to launch that does its own iunit, connects to x, loads its own data and theme/image files from disk itself |
| 22:19.10 | raster | etc. etc. |
| 22:19.17 | raster | (has its own stack, own heap)... |
| 22:19.32 | lindi- | sure it's all about tradeoffs |
| 22:23.31 | *** join/#openmoko datachaos (n=datachao@c9155740.virtua.com.br) |
| 22:24.33 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@93-138-66-251.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
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| 22:26.07 | Sargun | Is the GTA 3 going to have USB 2? |
| 22:26.19 | _charly_ | hmm, strange, two people, two freerunners, two hardware revisions, one office, and one problem at the same time... both freerunners had such an empty battery that uboot refused to boot (booted both of them with nor boot, now they are charging at 1000mA) |
| 22:26.36 | raster | spedthats an.. interesting module |
| 22:27.10 | igor321 | Sargun: no |
| 22:27.11 | Sargun | RAW is neat. |
| 22:27.20 | Sargun | igor321, why not? It's not on the chipset? |
| 22:27.30 | igor321 | no it's not on the soc |
| 22:27.34 | Sargun | Damnit. |
| 22:27.40 | igor321 | which is the same as in gta02's |
| 22:27.46 | igor321 | sorry to ruin your evening, man |
| 22:27.49 | Sargun | I thought they are using a different SoC |
| 22:28.10 | igor321 | only if there was a drastic change of plans |
| 22:28.12 | raster | SpeedEvil: interestring module |
| 22:28.14 | raster | though old... |
| 22:28.20 | raster | must not have been that useful |
| 22:28.46 | *** join/#openmoko bluetoad (n=peter@62.70.2.252) |
| 22:29.17 | Sargun | igor321, Yeah, different SoC, but no USB 2.0 until GTA04 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA03_revisions |
| 22:29.18 | SpeedEvil | raster: it worked very well IME |
| 22:29.43 | SpeedEvil | raster: some things get lost because of legitimate concerns of VM people that many users don't care about |
| 22:30.06 | SpeedEvil | raster: for example - mergemem has potential security problems - by timing page faults, you can tell if your page has been duplicated |
| 22:30.20 | raster | SpeedEvil: like slowdowns due to having something scanning for matching pages in the bg? |
| 22:30.21 | SpeedEvil | raster: On a laptop, where I'm the only user, I don't care about that. |
| 22:30.24 | *** join/#openmoko SirBob1701 (n=SirBob17@98.111.128.42) |
| 22:30.32 | SpeedEvil | raster: IME slowdowns were negative. |
| 22:30.36 | raster | ooooh bollocks |
| 22:30.37 | SpeedEvil | raster: due to lower swapping |
| 22:30.51 | raster | sometimes that level of security insansity annoys me |
| 22:31.09 | raster | so u can "infer" that some other process (user) may have that page duplicated |
| 22:31.09 | raster | yes |
| 22:31.17 | SpeedEvil | And if somethings out of tree, it doesn't get maintained, so if the originator loses interest, it dies. |
| 22:31.19 | raster | man thats a leap imho security-wise |
| 22:31.29 | raster | yeah |
| 22:31.43 | raster | i wonder how many dups it'd find on your average om session |
| 22:31.51 | raster | ie how much memory does it really save |
| 22:32.50 | *** join/#openmoko DieMumiee (n=DieMumie@W36d5.w.pppool.de) |
| 22:32.57 | SpeedEvil | split -c4096 /proc/kcore;md5sum * |awk '{print $1}' |uniq|wc |
| 22:33.00 | SpeedEvil | or something |
| 22:33.58 | lindi- | uh :) |
| 22:34.17 | lindi- | contents of kcore will change while you read it |
| 22:34.41 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@94.36.88.11) |
| 22:34.52 | raster | yeah |
| 22:35.03 | raster | but if al u are after isa "i wonder how many pages are duped" |
| 22:35.05 | raster | as a ballpark |
| 22:35.08 | raster | its good enough |
| 22:35.19 | *** part/#openmoko magbeat (n=maege@84-73-51-236.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:35.54 | SpeedEvil | realises that caching may do bad things. |
| 22:35.59 | SpeedEvil | Copy kcore first |
| 22:37.32 | lindi- | disable interrupts, do it in kernel module </overkillmode> |
| 22:38.29 | raster | hmm |
| 22:38.41 | raster | what happened to .proc/kcore |
| 22:38.43 | raster | its not there |
| 22:38.53 | lindi- | .proc/kcore? |
| 22:39.15 | vininim | "Overall, u-blox' fifth generation chip boasts a 50-channel architecture that enables satellite acquisition in less than 1 second and -160 dBm acquisition and tracking sensitivity" <- awesome, my room is at -150 average it seems |
| 22:39.24 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:39.28 | raster | typo |
| 22:39.30 | raster | :) |
| 22:41.17 | lindi- | true, it's missing here too |
| 22:41.18 | SpeedEvil | raster: don't you have to enable it at compile |
| 22:41.40 | raster | SpeedEvil: never seen it disabled |
| 22:41.41 | raster | :) |
| 22:42.32 | SpeedEvil | s/enable/not disable/ |
| 22:43.17 | raster | hmm damn |
| 22:43.44 | raster | and /dev/mem and /dev/kmem are bing uncooperative with cat |
| 22:43.44 | raster | and wc |
| 22:43.44 | raster | ... |
| 22:44.50 | *** join/#openmoko alfatangoxt (n=michele@host57-242-static.12-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 22:45.06 | quatrox|zzZzzzzz | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:45.26 | lindi- | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:45.27 | SpeedEvil | quatrox|zzZzzzzz: over 9000! |
| 22:45.32 | SpeedEvil | quatrox|zzZzzzzz: or 3.3V or so. |
| 22:45.36 | SpeedEvil | quatrox|zzZzzzzz: optionally lower |
| 22:46.23 | SpeedEvil | optionally on the cards behalf. |
| 22:46.28 | quatrox | SpeedEvil: is 3.3 V max? |
| 22:46.40 | SpeedEvil | Quadduc: 3.3V with tollerance |
| 22:46.47 | SpeedEvil | quatrox: so prolly 3.3+.33 |
| 22:46.56 | quatrox | ahh |
| 22:47.14 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 22:47.24 | quatrox | I ask because I want to do some tests |
| 22:49.00 | quatrox | wonders if his SDHC cards don't like his GTA02 |
| 22:49.36 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009019160.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 22:49.55 | SpeedEvil | finds ext2 performance sucks after creating 30K or so 4K files. |
| 22:50.18 | quatrox | that is not so strange |
| 22:50.25 | Sargun | Ouch |
| 22:50.32 | Sargun | I should put away my laser before I blind myself. |
| 22:50.34 | SpeedEvil | Actually - it's still doing 100/sec - which isn't too bad. |
| 22:50.42 | Sargun | I have a giant purple blotch in the middle of my vision |
| 22:50.54 | SpeedEvil | Sargun: what colour laser? |
| 22:51.05 | Sargun | Green. |
| 22:51.16 | SpeedEvil | Sargun: you need to use a blue laser to counter that. |
| 22:51.19 | Sargun | I was etching stuff into the back of my FR. |
| 22:51.23 | quatrox | complementary colours |
| 22:51.49 | Sargun | SpeedEvil, 125mw fusion from Wicked Lasers. |
| 22:52.03 | quatrox | hmmm |
| 22:52.14 | *** join/#openmoko alphabeat1 (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 22:52.24 | *** part/#openmoko alphabeat1 (n=nick@123-243-190-207.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 22:52.33 | quatrox | Sargun: 125mW? Sounds very powerful |
| 22:53.05 | SpeedEvil | Sargun: ow. |
| 22:53.19 | SpeedEvil | Sargun: actually into your eye? Or just reflections? |
| 22:53.28 | *** join/#openmoko peter__b (n=peter_b@p549792B8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:53.38 | SpeedEvil | 125mw is in the range or prompt sight damage. |
| 22:54.19 | SpeedEvil | wants a 125Mw laser pointer. |
| 22:54.34 | Sargun | no |
| 22:54.43 | Sargun | There is very little reflection |
| 22:54.48 | Sargun | but it still hurts quite a bit |
| 22:55.05 | SpeedEvil | green welding goggles can work very well. |
| 22:55.27 | SpeedEvil | I've got a pair and if I stare direclty into a 10mW red laser beam, all I see is the very faint green emission. |
| 22:55.35 | Sargun | yeah, I'm getting new goggles soon |
| 22:55.35 | ^wd^ | has 100mW green and 200mW red |
| 22:55.41 | ^wd^ | cool toys :) |
| 22:55.59 | Sargun | 200 mw red? That must eat through whatever it hits. |
| 22:56.07 | *** join/#openmoko niki (n=niki@0x5553169c.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 22:56.10 | Sargun | wait, is the FR arm, or armeB? |
| 22:56.14 | *** join/#openmoko peter_b (n=peter_b@p549797C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:56.34 | quatrox | Sargun: It would be better more dangerous if it where blue |
| 22:56.51 | Sargun | Blue lasers are very expensive. |
| 22:57.07 | quatrox | knows |
| 22:57.33 | Sargun | I'd like one |
| 22:57.46 | vininim | How does one enable terminal keyboard on om-daily? |
| 22:57.56 | vininim | (Sliding doesn't cycle to it) |
| 22:58.28 | quatrox | Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission Radiation (LASER) is easy to make |
| 22:58.33 | quatrox | but ... |
| 22:58.40 | quatrox | still very expensive |
| 22:59.05 | SpeedEvil | keeps meaning to set up a gimballed laser pointer. |
| 22:59.13 | vininim | oh illume-config (asking on irc really boost one's wiki search capabilities =P) |
| 22:59.16 | ^wd^ | 200mW laser fuse black (dark) plastic |
| 22:59.17 | SpeedEvil | Pointed at ISS when it comed over in the dark |
| 22:59.26 | SpeedEvil | so I can see myself as a dot on NASA TV |
| 22:59.53 | Wonka | »A Class 3B laser is hazardous if the eye is exposed directly, but diffuse reflections such as from paper or other matte surfaces are not harmful. Continuous lasers in the wavelength range from 315 nm to far infrared are limited to 0.5 W.« |
| 23:00.42 | quatrox | hmm |
| 23:00.52 | ^wd^ | reflections from 200mW sleep eyes for time |
| 23:00.57 | quatrox | I played with a 5 W LASER |
| 23:01.10 | ^wd^ | 5W ? |
| 23:01.13 | quatrox | yeah |
| 23:01.14 | ^wd^ | WANT! |
| 23:01.52 | quatrox | It wasn't mine |
| 23:02.00 | Wonka | i saw a 450W laser once... |
| 23:02.01 | quatrox | too expensive |
| 23:02.04 | quatrox | wow |
| 23:02.05 | Wonka | and what it did to a brick |
| 23:02.37 | Wonka | but you'd need a forklift to move it |
| 23:03.17 | quatrox | is happy as long as the LASER is strong enough to read his bootable FSF membership card |
| 23:03.38 | quatrox | (or any other CD) |
| 23:04.54 | ^wd^ | btw, in dvdrw used 250mW red laser |
| 23:05.23 | quatrox | hmm |
| 23:05.44 | quatrox | then I will collect some old burners |
| 23:05.50 | Dave | What's going down ya'll? |
| 23:06.18 | quatrox | ...and focus the beams |
| 23:06.26 | quatrox | from many LASERs |
| 23:06.40 | viq | focus the beans! |
| 23:06.46 | viq | </random> |
| 23:07.06 | Sargun | should it piss me off that the WiFi is faster than the USB? |
| 23:07.20 | quatrox | no |
| 23:07.40 | quatrox | Sargun: be happy that the WiFi is fast |
| 23:07.55 | ^wd^ | for focus laser from burner u can use native head :) |
| 23:08.21 | quatrox | hmm |
| 23:09.58 | *** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213-152-39-89.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) |
| 23:09.59 | quatrox | wants an 200W UV LASER right outside his door so he don't need keys |
| 23:10.18 | quatrox | (no need to lock the door then) |
| 23:10.46 | ^wd^ | no one need to lock then :) |
| 23:10.50 | Sargun | HAha |
| 23:11.10 | Sargun | anyone who walks in would begin getting burned |
| 23:11.19 | Sargun | I think they would notice the giant laser. |
| 23:11.53 | quatrox | They might hear the fans |
| 23:12.40 | Sargun | or see the giant cooling towers? |
| 23:13.03 | quatrox | you mean the water cooling system? |
| 23:13.27 | quatrox | hmm |
| 23:13.35 | quatrox | nice way to get hot water |
| 23:15.46 | *** join/#openmoko Arg0naut (n=steveois@CPE001c10acab63-CM000a7369b290.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 23:24.37 | *** join/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@130.70.12.164) |
| 23:30.07 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp150-101-64-72.as1.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 23:31.08 | Dave | unrooly |
| 23:31.22 | rooly | sir yes sir! |
| 23:32.16 | *** part/#openmoko FilipLinux4BE (n=Filip@77.109.120.124) |
| 23:35.33 | anttna | light oscillation through stimulated emission of radiation LOSER |
| 23:36.01 | anttna | just thought i'd be correct about how it works |
| 23:36.05 | anttna | sorry |
| 23:36.40 | rooly | then...where's the a come from??? |
| 23:37.17 | quatrox | anttna: actually, it is just standing waves |
| 23:37.32 | quatrox | to put it in simple English |
| 23:37.35 | anttna | loser was deemed to not be a cool name for physcists to be throwing about so it was changed to laser it is kinda right |
| 23:38.02 | rooly | sharks with freakin loser beams attached to their freakin heads |
| 23:38.17 | anttna | rool: :D |
| 23:38.27 | anttna | rooly: :D |
| 23:38.29 | *** join/#openmoko mmaestri (i=be315760@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6729cc94089b9a67) |
| 23:38.57 | quatrox | apt: Grab a LOSER and distroy! |
| 23:39.00 | *** join/#openmoko KenYoung (n=Ken@pool-68-160-33-132.bos.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:39.01 | *** join/#openmoko transylvania (i=leon@lor34-1-82-240-239-234.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:39.20 | anttna | i think they made the right call renaming it |
| 23:39.57 | quatrox | they current name is not incorrect |
| 23:40.00 | quatrox | :) |
| 23:41.15 | rooly | Light oscillAtion through Stimulated Emission of Radiation |
| 23:42.15 | Sargun | LASERS! |
| 23:42.22 | quatrox | remembers he had to calculate doping for LASER on a test some years ago |
| 23:42.45 | anttna | sargun: lol |
| 23:44.18 | anttna | http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/ApplePie |
| 23:44.36 | *** join/#openmoko datachaos (n=datachao@189.27.181.219.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 23:45.37 | anttna | can you cook Sargun? |
| 23:46.19 | SpeedEvil | ponders Sargun fritters. |
| 23:46.39 | Sargun | Yes, why? |
| 23:46.48 | quatrox | apt: cook Sargun |
| 23:46.49 | apt | ACTION throws Sargun in a big pan with veggies inside and cooks Sargun on 350 for an hour |
| 23:46.54 | Sargun | My laser can barely cook. |
| 23:47.05 | anttna | openmoko pie |
| 23:48.48 | *** join/#openmoko tg (i=tg@digit.drk.hu) |
| 23:49.14 | anttna | i flashed daily testing om earlier but couldn't network over usb. Has anyone else tried? |
| 23:51.45 | vininim | anttna: rebooting usually works |
| 23:52.06 | vininim | I have daily-20081201 working here fine |
| 23:52.15 | anttna | no tried that but flashed shr and still no joy so it is something else |
| 23:52.28 | anttna | doesn't see usb0 |
| 23:52.28 | *** join/#openmoko datachaos (n=datachao@189.27.181.219.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 23:52.51 | vininim | might be some configuration issue in host? |
| 23:53.26 | *** join/#openmoko lunartear (n=cayres@ip68-103-160-30.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 23:53.38 | anttna | then if I try it again I get this RTNETLINK answers: File exists |
| 23:57.00 | *** join/#openmoko feitinge1 (i=feitinge@cakebox.net) |
| 23:57.46 | *** join/#openmoko t0h (i=tommi@dsl-kvlbrasgw2-fe0cdf00-1.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 23:58.59 | *** join/#openmoko Staticwave_Ace (n=Ace@d57-135-60.home.cgocable.net) |
| 23:59.13 | quatrox | anttna: make sure no other usb devices is connected to your computer:) |
| 23:59.13 | quatrox | I always forget to disconnect my other phone |
| 23:59.14 | quatrox | which does not provide ssh.... |
| 23:59.18 | quatrox | so I always think the FR USB does not work... |
