| 00:00.29 | *** join/#openmoko mattington (n=DevUser@211.100.255.114) |
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| 00:16.53 | kd8ikt | darn charger sucks |
| 00:17.44 | kd8ikt | ripped the headset apart and have been periodicly checking the battery's charge ... nowhere near its intended output like 4hrs of charging |
| 00:17.57 | kd8ikt | :P |
| 00:18.11 | *** join/#openmoko DieMumiee (n=DieMumie@W3e87.w.pppool.de) |
| 00:18.14 | kd8ikt | must be why i got it for a lil over 10$ |
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| 01:15.31 | gmaxwell | Does anyone have their OM self-hosting? :) |
| 01:33.58 | nemik | so how is battery life on the latest builds? |
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| 01:39.56 | slaxxin | 4 devices running on 1 battery= sucks |
| 01:42.22 | else58 | what does the u-boot usb serial console require on the other end (linux + kermit?) |
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| 01:54.53 | slaxxin | for flashing a new os? |
| 01:55.30 | *** part/#openmoko gmaxwell (n=NT4TN@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001) |
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| 02:21.16 | nemik | anyone boot the debian version over SD card? is it much slower? |
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| 02:52.07 | slaxxin | I GET 2 4GIG SDCARDS TOMORROW |
| 02:52.29 | slaxxin | maybe debian will get on 1 |
| 02:52.53 | slaxxin | or maybe on the 2 gig card i have now |
| 02:53.24 | slaxxin | im thinking a 4 gig card would be better for debian |
| 02:55.03 | AntonTakk | is back to using his previous phone full time, fr now lives in the desk drawer, waiting for good (imho) software |
| 02:56.44 | slaxxin | good luck |
| 02:57.06 | slaxxin | u could put fdom on it |
| 02:57.22 | *** join/#openmoko noother (n=noother@unaffiliated/noother) |
| 02:57.28 | slaxxin | at least the gps works an pidgin |
| 02:57.58 | slaxxin | qtopia failed? |
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| 03:01.39 | sgrover | is it typical to only get about an hour or 2 of battery life with Debian and GPS (via TangoGPS) ? |
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| 03:13.00 | balrog-k1n | hehe.. my new kernel sits there spitting jffs2 error for fifteen minutes (still hasn't mounted root) and at one moment says "expect badness.." |
| 03:13.11 | balrog-k1n | ok, good to know.. |
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| 03:42.04 | RayDar | tries (in vain) to install iptables on his GTA01bv4 |
| 03:42.42 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 03:47.04 | rwhitby | RayDar: what's missing? |
| 03:48.20 | RayDar | rwhitby: iptables, I guess "opkg install iptables" == "An error ocurred, return value: 2." |
| 03:48.45 | rwhitby | which distro? it's definitely available for fso-testing on gta01 |
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| 03:50.32 | RayDar | rwhitby: qtopia |
| 03:51.06 | rwhitby | real qtopia, or openmoko OM2008? |
| 03:51.40 | RayDar | rwhitby: real |
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| 03:54.24 | mwester | real qtopia is built on an FSO base image. |
| 03:55.02 | RayDar | interesting. Any idea how I can add iptables to it? |
| 03:55.25 | mwester | The kernel used is recent enough that kernel modules from recent FSO images should probably work. Are you sure that it isn't "kernel-module-iptables" you should be intalling? |
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| 03:57.36 | RayDar | mwester: iptables, I guess "opkg install kernel-module-iptables" == "An error ocurred, return value: 2." |
| 03:57.42 | ieatlint | ok, my mind is blanking... is there a better way in c to convert an integer to a string than something like sprintf? |
| 03:58.04 | RayDar | ieatlint: itoa(integer) |
| 03:58.20 | ieatlint | yeah, and what lib is itoa in then? |
| 03:58.32 | RayDar | stdlib.h or math.h |
| 03:58.35 | RayDar | maybe string.h |
| 03:58.43 | mwester | RayDar: did you do a "opkg update"? |
| 03:59.08 | ieatlint | no, there's nothing in any of those libs that takes an integer and allocates a string filled with it as you describe |
| 03:59.19 | SpeedEvil | printf |
| 03:59.20 | ieatlint | there's atoi, but since that doesn't require allocating data, it's there |
| 03:59.24 | RayDar | mwester: That fails too. I get a lot of "Signature check failed" |
| 03:59.26 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 04:00.00 | mwester | I ignored the signature check failed messages, and it still downloaded the package indexes. |
| 04:00.39 | RayDar | ieatlint: Doh. itoa is not ANSI |
| 04:01.05 | rwhitby | RayDar: where are your feed .conf files pointing to? |
| 04:01.08 | ieatlint | sprintf it is :) |
| 04:01.31 | ieatlint | i spent like 15min looking through glib api trying to find something |
| 04:01.32 | RayDar | rwhitby: I don't know where my feed .conf files are located. |
| 04:01.51 | RayDar | ieatlint: I am afraid with ANSI C, you are stuck with strprintf(). |
| 04:02.27 | mwester | sprintf is evil. use vsnprintf instead. |
| 04:02.45 | ieatlint | i like evil :) |
| 04:02.52 | mwester | RayDar: your feed config files are in /etc/opkg |
| 04:03.02 | RayDar | typically one calls the other in the lib anyway. |
| 04:03.08 | *** part/#openmoko Torikun (n=rusher@astound-69-42-18-131.ca.astound.net) |
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| 04:03.27 | mwester | puts ieatlint into the "evil coder" list. |
| 04:03.36 | ieatlint | i'm controlling the integer to be made into a string, so there's no worries with sprintf here |
| 04:04.03 | mwester | mutters something about "famous last words"... |
| 04:04.10 | ieatlint | :) |
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| 04:05.12 | RayDar | mwester: OK. There are a bunch of feed files in there. I think they all begin with "src/gz om-dev-all http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily-feed/" |
| 04:05.21 | RayDar | mwester: Should I perhaps change that? |
| 04:05.57 | mwester | That server is no more; yes, you should find a set of feeds that actually work. |
| 04:06.55 | mwester | Try the FSO feeds -- but know that by mixing your feeds, it's only a matter of _when_, not if, you'll trash your system. |
| 04:08.00 | mwester | I only suggest FSO because that's the closest feeds to that particular rootfs of which I'm aware. They may break things, and whatever you do, DO NOT do an "upgrade" with opkg -- that's almost certainly break everything! |
| 04:08.02 | kd8ikt | Amen |
| 04:10.04 | RayDar | oh boy, this can be frustrating. Maybe I should just switch to FSO milestone 3. Does anyone know if it has working GPRS, GPS, and iptables? |
| 04:11.45 | RayDar | int a = 1; char* string; strprintf(string, "%d", a); /* no worries, I control the integer */ |
| 04:13.46 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03marek * r4660 10/trunk/src/host/pye17/ (5 files in 3 dirs): |
| 04:13.46 | CIA-22 | openmoko: make evas bindings compile (gtype/include/enum problems fixed) |
| 04:13.46 | CIA-22 | openmoko: fix edje makefile, so that it also can do its job |
| 04:13.46 | CIA-22 | openmoko: remove autogenerated evas_data.defs file from svn |
| 04:13.46 | CIA-22 | openmoko: known issues: |
| 04:13.47 | CIA-22 | openmoko: These bindings heavily work around "gtype" which is required all over the place. At the moment I have no idea what they are good for. It may provoke unexpected results. |
| 04:14.10 | rwhitby | RayDar: switching from Qtopia to FSO will be a bit of a culture shock, unless you are an experienced Linux user. |
| 04:14.49 | *** join/#openmoko e_s_p (n=evan@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) |
| 04:15.17 | rwhitby | I would suggest you set your feeds to whatever lpotter says you should, and then just wget and manually install individual ipkgs from downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-testing/feeds for those that you need that Trolltech does not supply. |
| 04:16.05 | *** join/#openmoko atul (n=Atul@61.16.248.242) |
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| 04:16.47 | RayDar | rwhitby: I have been using Linx for >8 years. But I bet I am still in for a culture shock. The qtopia images are great if you want a cell-phone but at this point, I am more just in need of a GPS capable Internet connection. |
| 04:17.16 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 04:17.17 | mwester | I found this: http://www.qtopia.net/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=885&forum=16 |
| 04:17.58 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 04:18.13 | ljp | RayDar: wait for 4.4 |
| 04:18.19 | rwhitby | mwester: hmm - qtopia and asu feed mixing ... |
| 04:18.52 | rwhitby | ljp: which feed (if any) is recommended for qtopia images? |
| 04:19.05 | mwester | thinks that a minimal FSO image (without X) would be a better platform for qtopia going forward; then qtopia could use those feeds. |
| 04:19.21 | fragged | Is there VOIP software for Openmoko yet? Furthermore are there services that allow you to send text messages via VOIP style service? - Being able to spoof my real number would be a big plus |
| 04:19.37 | ljp | depends on the image. they broke opkg in the latest qtopia images when they moved. |
| 04:19.55 | ljp | I manually edited the feed configs and opkg upgrade worked. |
| 04:20.18 | ljp | I wont have an image update until 4.4 gets released, but these will have updated rootfs |
| 04:21.04 | RayDar | ljp: I cannot. I need this for a road trip. |
| 04:21.29 | RayDar | mwester: You are a life saver! Whatever they are paying you, it should be double. Thanks so very much! |
| 04:22.47 | *** join/#openmoko NineX (i=ninex@2001:16b0:1005:0:0:0:0:3) |
| 04:23.00 | ljp | wish I could release 4.4 beta's... |
| 04:23.36 | Dominus | Oh, you can! |
| 04:23.40 | slaxxin | maybe FDOM is in order? |
| 04:23.56 | mwester | ljp: me too! :( |
| 04:24.16 | slaxxin | i would erase fdom for a beta") |
| 04:24.33 | RayDar | dcc get ljp kewtee4.4beta_notqtopia.zip |
| 04:24.49 | slaxxin | we know wheres hes at |
| 04:24.59 | slaxxin | haha |
| 04:25.07 | slaxxin | well mabe |
| 04:25.22 | ljp | brisbane |
| 04:27.27 | slaxxin | just shake an bake us an image off YOUR machine an we will test the hell outa it |
| 04:28.32 | RayDar | Well, that's the first time I saw opkg actually do something.... it seems like it installed iptables (and dependencies) but there doesn't seem to be an iptables command. argh |
| 04:29.57 | *** join/#openmoko jOERG_zzZZzz (n=jr@p5493D274.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:30.12 | rwhitby | RayDar: where did you install it from? |
| 04:31.22 | rwhitby | the one from fso-testing installs /usr/sbin/iptables ... |
| 04:31.31 | *** join/#openmoko iormz (n=oramirez@189.153.196.149) |
| 04:32.47 | RayDar | rwhitby: I was in the /etc/opkg folder (I sure hope that isn't what you were asking). The files were downloaded from http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2008.8/neo1973/ |
| 04:33.16 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@adsl-71-141-89-228.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) |
| 04:34.00 | RayDar | rwhitby: per the instructions on http://www.qtopia.net/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=885&forum=16 as found by mwester |
| 04:34.16 | rwhitby | RayDar: I couldn't recommend using OM2008.8 repositories with Qtopia. |
| 04:34.48 | rwhitby | but there should be a /usr/sbin/iptables executable in that one too |
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| 04:39.02 | *** join/#openmoko froksen (n=froksen@87.54.254.190) |
| 04:39.29 | iormz | hi |
| 04:39.39 | iormz | I am having issues with python-textutils_2.5.2-ml0_armv4t.opk |
| 04:39.52 | iormz | it is giving the error code 17 |
| 04:41.11 | RayDar | I am about to pull my hair out. |
| 04:42.31 | RayDar | opkg install iptables iptables-utils kernel-module-ipt-masquerade kernel-module-iptable-nat |
| 04:42.32 | RayDar | Package kernel-module-ipt-masquerade (2:2.6.24+git75969+a1e97c611253511ffc2d8c45e3e6d6894fa03fa3-r1.01) installed in root is up to date. |
| 04:42.32 | RayDar | Package kernel-module-iptable-nat (2:2.6.24+git75969+a1e97c611253511ffc2d8c45e3e6d6894fa03fa3-r1.01) installed in root is up to date. |
| 04:42.32 | RayDar | root@om-gta01:/etc/opkg# opkg install iptables-utils |
| 04:42.33 | RayDar | An error ocurred, return value: 2. |
| 04:42.34 | RayDar | root@om-gta01:/etc/opkg# opkg install iptables iptables-utils |
| 04:42.36 | RayDar | An error ocurred, return value: 3. |
| 04:43.19 | RayDar | Looks like I got two of them. |
| 04:44.30 | rwhitby | RayDar: just wget the files and opkg install from local files |
| 04:44.56 | rwhitby | since dependencies are never going to work when you mix images and feeds |
| 04:53.47 | RayDar | Wow. It is impossible to describe the level of frustration I am feeling. I know I shouldn't throw the phone against the wall, but it is SO tempting. |
| 04:55.18 | ieatlint | just go find some skater kids and beat on them |
| 04:55.51 | *** join/#openmoko e_s_p (n=evan@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) |
| 04:56.34 | RayDar | I'm not a big fat cop. |
| 04:56.59 | raster | yet |
| 04:57.02 | ieatlint | hey, it's oddly satisfying even if you aren't a cop |
| 04:57.18 | ljp | leave the skater kids alone |
| 04:57.21 | ieatlint | hey raster.. |
| 04:57.32 | raster | ieatlint: boo |
| 04:57.34 | raster | crap |
| 04:57.45 | raster | i'm going to have to implement an at-clone that groks the rtc. |
| 04:57.46 | ieatlint | finally learnt how to do/use edjes today, bravo... much easier than toolkits :) |
| 04:57.49 | raster | fuckers |
| 04:58.06 | *** join/#openmoko rooly (n=rooly@host-125-92.lalacap.clients.pavlovmedia.com) |
| 04:58.09 | raster | ieatlint: should be getting better over time - adding mroe layout options/tools etc. |
| 04:58.27 | ieatlint | well, for UIs with just buttons and such, it's great... |
| 04:58.35 | raster | hehee |
| 04:58.38 | ieatlint | obviously there's a lot more that widget toolkits offer |
| 04:58.38 | raster | if u need to do more... |
| 04:58.45 | ieatlint | ewl included |
| 04:58.57 | ieatlint | you incinuating i should add it myself? |
| 04:59.21 | raster | no |
| 04:59.27 | raster | its on the plan |
| 04:59.31 | raster | already |
| 04:59.43 | raster | just not a top priority |
| 04:59.45 | ieatlint | damn, i'll just take my infinite loops elsewhere |
| 05:00.13 | RayDar | OK. That does it. I am going to switch to FSO and deal with it's headaches for a while. |
| 05:02.31 | RayDar | This is probably a mistake. |
| 05:03.04 | RayDar | It's amazing how something can be so tantilizingly close to working and yet be a universe away from what you need. |
| 05:04.32 | *** join/#openmoko safiiru (n=l0gout@S0106001310a007d9.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 05:05.04 | safiiru | Anyone's opinion on if 2008.9 is working very well? |
| 05:05.35 | rooly | it's working rather well |
| 05:05.57 | *** join/#openmoko atul (n=Atul@61.16.248.242) |
| 05:05.58 | safiiru | :) That's good. I think I may give that a try tonight. |
| 05:06.06 | safiiru | How's the battery usage btw? |
| 05:06.19 | rooly | with suspend, at least a day |
| 05:06.36 | rooly | qtopia and om2007 both don't have propper suspend modes |
| 05:06.47 | rooly | but 2008.x all have relatively working suspend mode |
| 05:06.58 | ljp | huh? qtopia suspends just fine |
| 05:07.07 | rooly | stands corrected |
| 05:07.11 | ljp | :) |
| 05:07.18 | rooly | i never found the 'suspend' option anyway |
| 05:07.21 | rooly | anywho, |
| 05:07.27 | ljp | it s the system that suspend may be winky |
| 05:07.43 | rooly | there are a few tidbits and buglets tho: |
| 05:07.58 | RayDar | reboots his newly flashed FSO Milestone 3 |
| 05:07.59 | rooly | don't suspend right after wakeup, or wakeup right after suspend (hit the power button) |
| 05:08.00 | ljp | rooly: it suspends on its own, but its in the power manager apps |
| 05:08.17 | safiiru | If you were waiting for someone to call you for a job interview, would you rest easy knowing the FR would come out of suspend and ring? |
| 05:08.34 | raster | safiiru: hell no |
| 05:08.36 | safiiru | haha |
| 05:08.41 | rooly | for me, it would |
| 05:08.48 | rooly | i test that a few dozen times at each install |
| 05:08.58 | rooly | if not, i accept low battery life |
| 05:09.08 | safiiru | Ok, that's just one of my test questions for weather I should swap phones and bring my FR to work as my normal phone. |
| 05:09.08 | raster | i have in my tests found about 1/20 times is wont resume from suspenjd |
| 05:09.09 | rooly | i have a spare phone anyway |
| 05:09.15 | raster | from soem heavy testing |
| 05:09.16 | rooly | safiiru: no |
| 05:09.26 | raster | thats a 5% chance u wont get the job u were goign to get... |
| 05:09.32 | raster | thats not really good |
| 05:09.33 | raster | :) |
| 05:09.36 | rooly | the point release is working |
| 05:09.50 | rooly | i've found that 1/20 or over time, it just won't suspend, but the screen will blank |
| 05:10.03 | raster | there's that problem too |
| 05:10.12 | raster | qtopia is halting the suspend |
| 05:10.17 | rooly | also, the lock button stops locking over time |
| 05:10.21 | raster | well mroe accurately qpe |
| 05:10.30 | raster | u request a suspend and it basically cblocks it |
| 05:10.39 | rooly | what's this qtopia app "_ignore_"? |
| 05:10.56 | raster | i think calypso gsm issues as the calypso is not playing nice and powering-down to passive/inactive mode |
| 05:11.31 | rooly | how hard would it be to implement a feature in apm |
| 05:11.47 | rooly | where, while charging, it doesn't enter sleep mode |
| 05:11.58 | raster | not the job of apm |
| 05:12.03 | raster | really |
| 05:12.15 | raster | in 2008.08/09 |
| 05:12.17 | raster | use ompower |
| 05:12.24 | raster | u can put suspendson hold any time |
| 05:12.25 | rooly | ahh, well in ompower then |
| 05:12.29 | raster | its documented on the wiki |
| 05:12.35 | raster | any app can do it |
| 05:12.45 | rooly | then the charging app |
| 05:12.52 | rooly | just, dont' suspend while charging |
| 05:12.59 | raster | well there is no charging app |
| 05:13.07 | raster | as such i dont think u want the charging to stopit |
| 05:13.19 | raster | u want a usb conenction to an external host to do it |
| 05:13.37 | raster | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Ompower |
| 05:13.49 | *** join/#openmoko swc|666 (n=swc|666@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821) |
| 05:13.52 | rooly | not necisarrily...since a usb connection is not always equal to charge mode |
| 05:14.04 | raster | thats my point |
| 05:14.13 | raster | and charge is not always a usb conenction |
| 05:14.17 | raster | eg wallcharger |
| 05:14.32 | raster | u possibly want "no suspend" when plugged into a pc |
| 05:14.39 | raster | so u can ssh in/out in peace |
| 05:14.46 | raster | and with wallcharger - u can suspend |
| 05:14.52 | raster | charging is slower if u dont suspend |
| 05:15.02 | rooly | or just do like winmo and turn off sleep while charging |
| 05:15.23 | raster | andy was particularly upset with the idea that you shouldnt suspend when charging in any way |
| 05:15.28 | raster | as "it charcges more slowely" |
| 05:15.32 | raster | thats why nothing was every implemented |
| 05:15.36 | *** join/#openmoko cvdstap (n=cvdstap@a80-126-48-177.adsl.xs4all.nl) |
| 05:15.50 | raster | andy was very unhappy with turnign off suspend while charging |
| 05:15.51 | raster | i agreed |
| 05:15.57 | raster | err |
| 05:16.04 | raster | agreed that it'd be nice to not suspend while plugged in |
| 05:16.08 | raster | for ssh/usbnet goop |
| 05:16.11 | raster | but i just left it alone |
| 05:16.21 | raster | the mechanisms are in lpace to be able to encofrce such a polciy if u want |
| 05:16.36 | rooly | i could probably do it via some kind of little daemon |
| 05:16.58 | raster | yes |
| 05:17.01 | raster | go write it |
| 05:17.02 | raster | :) |
| 05:17.29 | rooly | hmm, poll apm or the battery status |
| 05:17.34 | rooly | probably the battery |
| 05:17.49 | rooly | and if charging, throw a power-on to ompower |
| 05:18.09 | sgrover | having trouble with qtopia and email via wifi... |
| 05:18.22 | sgrover | qtopia is refusing to see my server. |
| 05:18.30 | sgrover | I get "unknown error". |
| 05:18.44 | SpeedEvil | tcpdump? |
| 05:19.03 | *** join/#openmoko ArteK_Work (n=Miranda@80.50.33.246) |
| 05:19.11 | raster | rooly: as i said. all possible |
| 05:19.12 | raster | :) |
| 05:19.13 | rooly | writes this script in bash right now |
| 05:19.21 | rooly | i'll just poll the user-space battery data |
| 05:19.23 | raster | i might add stuff like that to illume some day |
| 05:19.28 | raster | or e |
| 05:19.32 | rooly | and if "charging", throw a power-on to ompower |
| 05:19.34 | raster | as the battery is actually from core e |
| 05:19.41 | sgrover | SpeedEvil: was that to me? Wouldn't tcpdump be a little extreme on the FR? |
| 05:20.09 | SpeedEvil | sgrover: I was meaning on teh server. |
| 05:20.17 | SpeedEvil | sgrover: to work out what it's trying to say |
| 05:20.49 | sgrover | ahh. that would make too much sense... :) Let me check the server logs... |
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| 05:28.41 | rooly | wtf |
| 05:28.48 | rooly | my ssh refuses to work now |
| 05:29.58 | rooly | oh yeah |
| 05:30.00 | rooly | firewall |
| 05:31.06 | *** join/#openmoko freelock_ (n=john@194.sub-70-215-166.myvzw.com) |
| 05:32.51 | rwhitby | RayDar: you might want to get an fso-testing image, which is later than milestone3 and has the feeds preconfigured |
| 05:33.48 | RayDar | rwhitby: I see that the feeds are indeed not configured. |
| 05:34.08 | RayDar | scours the web for this test image that rwhitby speaks of. |
| 05:34.44 | rwhitby | RayDar: url that I gave before |
| 05:34.53 | rwhitby | downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-testing/... |
| 05:38.01 | *** join/#openmoko noaXess (n=noaXess@gw.ptr-80-238-209-47.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 05:38.23 | raster | begins work on funeral |
| 05:38.55 | RayDar | rwhitby: http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-testing/feeds/ doesn't have images, just .ipk files |
| 05:39.07 | RayDar | raster: Finally burying that old Palm Vx of yours? |
| 05:39.17 | raster | hahah |
| 05:39.17 | raster | no |
| 05:39.40 | raster | just an app that is meant to be a second-accurate (not minute) kidn of at/atd with wake from suspend ability |
| 05:39.41 | rwhitby | RayDar: that's why I didn't put ../feeds in the URL this time |
| 05:39.50 | rwhitby | look in the ../images dir |
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| 05:39.57 | *** join/#openmoko alephnull_ (n=alok@122.167.73.233) |
| 05:39.59 | raster | i'll oribably make it talk dbus |
| 05:40.00 | RayDar | rwhitby: doh. My mistake. I found them. |
| 05:40.12 | *** join/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@210.13.121.62) |
| 05:40.14 | rwhitby | raster: call it lazarus |
| 05:40.48 | raster | rwhitby: that so reminds me of the amiga |
| 05:40.58 | raster | nah |
| 05:41.01 | raster | funeral |
| 05:41.08 | raster | as its really intended to "wake" |
| 05:41.09 | raster | :) |
| 05:41.10 | rwhitby | ok, it's your funeral ;-) |
| 05:41.46 | raster | since i can find no existing app that has a timer5 queue that can run stuff |
| 05:41.56 | raster | and do rtc wakes |
| 05:42.08 | raster | unless someone has something to point to? |
| 05:44.01 | RayDar | thinks fondly of the Amiga4000T he has gathering dust. |
| 05:44.38 | raster | sighs thinking of his 1200 gathering dust |
| 05:44.52 | raster | sighs some more thinkign of his vic20 gathering dust |
| 05:45.29 | RayDar | thinks of the brand new A1200 he won at a conference and never used. |
| 05:45.36 | *** join/#openmoko tjikkun (n=tjikkun@195-240-122-237.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 05:45.48 | LetoTo | still has his A1000 |
| 05:45.54 | raster | oooh |
| 05:45.55 | LetoTo | it refuses to break down |
| 05:45.57 | raster | a1000 |
| 05:45.58 | RayDar | still has his A1000 too. |
| 05:46.16 | ceda | RayDar: did you get GPRS via usb bla bla to work? |
| 05:46.30 | RayDar | With a whopping 2MB RAM! |
| 05:46.33 | RayDar | ceda: Hell no! |
| 05:46.56 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 05:46.59 | ceda | hehe, ok. any reason to why not? |
| 05:47.06 | RayDar | ceda: I needed to install iptables but I couldn't do it on the qtopia image I had. |
| 05:47.10 | LetoTo | i had the 8mb extension :) |
| 05:47.16 | raster | shoudl have put an amiga into a phone |
| 05:47.40 | RayDar | is warmed by all the Amiga users here |
| 05:47.47 | ceda | RayDar: ah well, using Qtopia is another story. To me that feels like using a normal locked in phone |
| 05:47.49 | raster | :) |
| 05:48.10 | ceda | came from the Atari world |
| 05:48.17 | raster | remebders his days of copper list hand-crafting and blitter-games fondly |
| 05:49.02 | leinirAWAY | ceda: Any idea what makes you feel that way? :) |
| 05:49.08 | mwester | remembers when someone invented dirt. |
| 05:49.22 | mwester | :p |
| 05:49.51 | leinirAWAY | (since technically it's just a case of there being no X server :) ) |
| 05:49.51 | ceda | leinirAWAY: there's no iptables support built in =) |
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| 05:50.32 | RayDar | ceda: Right now I am installing a "test" FSO image as I continue to chase Cerberus along the banks of the river Styx. |
| 05:50.55 | *** part/#openmoko prjktdtnt (n=trash@67-93-61-132.lcc.clearwire-dns.net) |
| 05:51.20 | leinirAWAY | ceda: in the kernel, or? |
| 05:51.33 | ceda | raster: I dreamt up an idea of a transparent keyboard that uses the entire screen (mockup at http://wendt.se/software/openmoko/screens/keyboard-layer.png). Would it be possible to create something like that without having to bend X? |
| 05:51.36 | RayDar | ceda: I wouldn't mind the feel of a normal phone, but with all sorts of power underneath. |
| 05:51.40 | leinirAWAY | arh, crap, sorry, gotta run out! |
| 05:51.56 | raster | ceda: saw it. |
| 05:52.04 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=user@61.16.248.242) |
| 05:52.05 | raster | basically not practical except for a few apps |
| 05:52.14 | ceda | leinirAWAY: no, I don't have any good reasons. It's just that it's more fun to play with the other images |
| 05:52.17 | raster | lots of gotchas in getrting it to work |
| 05:52.25 | raster | ie need xevie event redirection layer |
| 05:52.37 | raster | (x does it - but it really is 1 app only that does that like a wm and compositor) |
| 05:52.40 | raster | u need compositing |
| 05:52.48 | RayDar | You're an xevie event redirection layer! |
| 05:52.54 | raster | and then u need a way for apps to say "yes u can overlay me - i dont use the mouse anyway" |
| 05:52.58 | raster | and then where u can overlay on the app |
| 05:53.06 | raster | its a big list of gotchas |
| 05:53.13 | raster | so as such... not until regular kebds are spotless |
| 05:53.20 | raster | most aps wont be able to use it |
| 05:53.31 | raster | as basically the kbd will cover important things like entry boxes |
| 05:53.33 | raster | buttons |
| 05:53.37 | raster | etc. etc. |
| 05:53.40 | ceda | I get all of the technical issues, and I see that it's hard to do |
| 05:53.54 | raster | there is nothing missing in x |
| 05:54.10 | ceda | but I don't see how it would be bad to use it in a browser to input URLs for instance |
| 05:54.15 | raster | beyond a way to say what can be covered (region of window) and thats a matter of properti4es being put on the windows |
| 05:54.17 | ceda | or in a browser to put in your blog entry |
| 05:54.43 | ceda | the kbd would appear only when you focus an input field just like the keyboards work today |
| 05:54.48 | raster | because a press on the screen may mean a key press |
| 05:54.53 | raster | or u want to press the button under it |
| 05:54.55 | raster | for example |
| 05:55.00 | raster | or uw ant to drag and scroll |
| 05:55.02 | raster | etc. |
| 05:55.25 | raster | u still need compositing |
| 05:55.32 | raster | and that in itself is just not practical on the FR |
| 05:55.33 | ceda | I was thinking that when the keyboard's there, all input is keyboard and you'd have to close it down before you can use the app underneath it |
| 05:55.34 | raster | due to speed |
| 05:55.54 | raster | at qvga - maybe |
| 05:55.56 | raster | but not vga |
| 05:56.11 | raster | u could tunr compositing on selectively only trhwn kbd is up |
| 05:56.15 | raster | and off again afterwards |
| 05:56.20 | raster | (to allow the window to update underneath) |
| 05:56.25 | raster | but that'd also cause flicker |
| 05:56.32 | raster | as such lots of gotchas |
| 05:56.45 | ceda | in deed |
| 05:56.56 | *** part/#openmoko Infinyte (n=Infinyte@66-146-252-212.gtmc.net) |
| 05:56.58 | raster | something to worry about once all the normal kbd stuff is exhausted i think |
| 05:57.37 | ceda | well, it'd be one thing that would sting all the other smartphones users in their eyes .... |
| 05:57.40 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@140.78.42.103) |
| 05:57.49 | ceda | such as iPhone users :) |
| 05:58.00 | *** part/#openmoko tedo (n=cta@HSI-KBW-091-089-242-202.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) |
| 05:58.26 | raster | i doubt it |
| 05:58.52 | raster | it wont get u anything really much except the app window not shrinkign to make room for kbd |
| 05:59.07 | raster | in portrait (normal) usage that most people use thnigs in |
| 05:59.16 | raster | it doesntr buy you anything in terms of kbd size/space |
| 05:59.25 | raster | as i said |
| 05:59.26 | rooly | raster |
| 05:59.27 | raster | nice idea |
| 05:59.29 | ceda | raster: one last question/go: would it be possible to do without composition - take snapshots and write on that snapshot |
| 05:59.31 | raster | got lots of caveats |
| 05:59.36 | ceda | a poor man's solution so to speak |
| 05:59.40 | rooly | has anyone fixed the little typo in the python __init.py__ script? |
| 05:59.46 | raster | will need lots of help from toolkits and apps to do things like specify where the kbd can go |
| 05:59.56 | raster | and it'd be possible |
| 06:00.02 | raster | but u'd not see any updates of what u are typing |
| 06:00.06 | raster | not possible |
| 06:00.49 | mpr | why would the application need to have a say in where the kbd can go? |
| 06:00.50 | ceda | not even periodically, like every two seconds, or after 500 ms of keyboard silence? (take a new snapshot) |
| 06:01.01 | *** join/#openmoko Kame2 (n=manuel@port-92-196-90-59.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 06:01.25 | mpr | just always overlay it over the whole screen, the user can hide it if he wants to interact with the app |
| 06:01.39 | raster | mpr: so the kbd doesnt cover important things u need to see/interact with |
| 06:01.42 | ceda | (I also wonder what mpr just said - the idea is to cover everything until you're done typing) |
| 06:01.55 | rwhitby | rooly: what's the trac number for that bug? |
| 06:02.08 | rooly | i don't know |
| 06:02.13 | raster | ceda: to do that u'd need to clear the screen,w ait for app to redraw (unknown - u have no idea when the app will have finished redrawing.. UNLESS u do compositing), then draw on top agaiun |
| 06:02.15 | ceda | raster: but I see the issue of editing text |
| 06:02.16 | rooly | i'm just wonderin |
| 06:02.21 | raster | also grab x so no one draws or does anything |
| 06:02.29 | mpr | well if it's transparent you can see through it, and if you want to interact with the app then don't keep the kdb open. :) |
| 06:02.35 | raster | ceda: yes |
| 06:02.43 | raster | editing will just not be practical unless u can see it |
| 06:03.01 | ceda | yep |
| 06:03.20 | raster | mpr: the problem is your fingers are busy possibly covering up what u are typing |
| 06:03.29 | raster | u want apps to be able to hint where to put it so thigns dont get covered |
| 06:03.43 | raster | also that will only work very well if the reghion its on is fairly un0-busy |
| 06:03.46 | raster | ie a big entry box |
| 06:03.46 | ceda | the basic reason to why I like it was that it could provide a way to type fast and use the entire space available = larger areas to hit |
| 06:03.58 | raster | if its a web page with tonnes of buttons, text, images etc. |
| 06:04.01 | raster | seeing the kbd will be hard |
| 06:04.13 | mpr | yeah but things like a big entry box are exactly where I imagine a thing like that would be useful |
| 06:04.14 | raster | and u have to make it work on all possible window content |
| 06:04.20 | raster | so u need it partly translucent to see |
| 06:04.22 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@c-cf64e455.04-302-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 06:04.26 | raster | but that also reduces functionality |
| 06:04.36 | raster | its a good idea in limited circumstances |
| 06:04.40 | raster | eg the terminal - it's good |
| 06:04.43 | raster | u dont "edit" tyext much |
| 06:04.45 | raster | u type |
| 06:04.53 | sgrover | anyone know the right incantation for tcpdump to give me the traffic between my FR and server, and be readable in WireShark? |
| 06:04.59 | raster | u dont go selecting and scrolling and pressing other buttons or checkboxes etc. |
| 06:05.07 | raster | its also good if the terminal has a solid single color bg |
| 06:05.11 | raster | if that bg is someting else |
| 06:05.12 | raster | ... |
| 06:05.19 | sgrover | I can see 3 lines of traffic - but can't quite tell what they are doing (hence wireshark) |
| 06:05.24 | raster | but u need to knwo where it is useful |
| 06:05.26 | raster | and where it is not |
| 06:05.33 | raster | and thus apps need to hint where in their window it'd be useful |
| 06:06.08 | mpr | I'd see popping the full-screen kbd up when filling in a textarea and then hiding it again to click checkboxes etc. on a form |
| 06:06.10 | *** join/#openmoko CM_work (i=893deae1@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b312b40ae529d3b9) |
| 06:06.34 | *** join/#openmoko prjktdtnt (n=trash@67-93-61-132.lcc.clearwire-dns.net) |
| 06:06.37 | raster | but the kbd is OVER the checkboxes |
| 06:06.39 | raster | and the other things |
| 06:06.41 | mpr | it can take a minute to fill in a textarea w/ the fr so it's not much overhead to bring up and hide the kdb :) |
| 06:06.42 | raster | it will be hard to see |
| 06:06.54 | mpr | no it's not after you click the qwerty in the upper left corner :) |
| 06:07.05 | mpr | takes half a second to hide or show the kbd, no big deal |
| 06:07.21 | raster | no no |
| 06:07.22 | raster | errr |
| 06:07.23 | raster | ok |
| 06:07.25 | raster | take that kbd image |
| 06:07.28 | rooly | raster: |
| 06:07.28 | ceda | raster: so _when_ we get composite working nice with the glamo *hmm* I can come back and provide some € and have it implemented? |
| 06:07.33 | raster | put it over your favorite porn photo |
| 06:07.37 | raster | then see how easy it is to read |
| 06:07.50 | rooly | does ompower prevent only suspend, or screen blanking too |
| 06:07.57 | ceda | I mean, I rarely use the mouse to select words or skip in a text field (be it a TEXTAREA in html/wordpad, eclipse or the terminal) |
| 06:07.59 | mpr | do you read your physical keyboard to know what to press?-) |
| 06:08.02 | raster | ceb whhen? never will. the glamo literally is missing gfx ops to do xrender properly |
| 06:08.08 | mpr | u'll learn the key positions quickly |
| 06:08.26 | raster | mpr: a lot of peolpe do |
| 06:08.37 | raster | they look at it to know where to p;position their figners to start |
| 06:08.38 | ceda | raster: if you could send me your favorite porn photo I'd mock up the image and show that it's useful, still ;) |
| 06:08.40 | mpr | yeah, but those people aren't buying freerunners :) |
| 06:08.45 | raster | u dont have any tactile feedback at all |
| 06:08.56 | raster | so visual feedback is the most omportant thnig |
| 06:08.59 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@vpn-global-dhcp3-064.ethz.ch) |
| 06:09.04 | raster | anyway |
| 06:09.12 | raster | it has lots of gotchas |
| 06:09.13 | mpr | yeah I'm not claiming it'd be superior in all ways |
| 06:09.18 | raster | its is not universally usable |
| 06:09.25 | mpr | just saying that could be better than smaller kbd in some cases |
| 06:09.32 | raster | i can say that i dont intend to implement it :) |
| 06:09.39 | raster | i dont have the time |
| 06:09.40 | ceda | gotta go to work |
| 06:09.44 | mpr | e.g. finger use when you don't have a stylus at hand etc. |
| 06:09.53 | raster | as to implement it properly means a whole bunch of {"not yet workign or not ever going to happen" things |
| 06:09.59 | raster | like compositing |
| 06:10.07 | raster | hints on where to put it |
| 06:10.08 | raster | etc. |
| 06:10.21 | mpr | still saying that those hints wouldn't be necessary :) |
| 06:10.23 | raster | and until all the prerequisites are in place |
| 06:10.27 | raster | no point worrying about it |
| 06:10.32 | raster | i am saying they are |
| 06:10.52 | mpr | well then you're thinking of a different usage scenario than I am :) |
| 06:10.54 | raster | u at least need hints the other way |
| 06:10.58 | sgrover | Anyone know offhand what resolution qtopia runs at? |
| 06:10.59 | raster | letting apps knwo what WILL get obscured |
| 06:11.07 | raster | so aps dont go placing important stuff there |
| 06:11.09 | mpr | they don't need to know that. :) |
| 06:11.24 | mpr | the apps shouldn't change their layout _at all_ |
| 06:11.41 | mpr | bringing up the kbd shouldn't even cause a redraw event to go to the app in the ideal case |
| 06:11.56 | rooly | http://rafb.net/p/bb8y4R92.html |
| 06:11.57 | raster | with compositing it wouldnt |
| 06:12.00 | raster | the compositing system woudl do it |
| 06:12.01 | rooly | http://rafb.net/p/Z0bk1A21.html |
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| 06:14.23 | yabo | Hai |
| 06:14.35 | yabo | Python on Qtopia anyone? opkg wont work for me.. |
| 06:14.35 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=toi@212-123-1-140.iFiber.telenet-ops.be) |
| 06:15.30 | raster | mpr: as such - the idea there is nothing more than this: (if u basically disallow interaction with rthe app beyond typing for it for anything under the kbd): |
| 06:15.36 | raster | 1. DONT resize app window when showing kbd |
| 06:15.46 | raster | 2. have compositing work |
| 06:15.58 | raster | 3. have the kbd have a theme with a transparent bg. |
| 06:16.01 | raster | :) |
| 06:16.11 | ceda | exactly |
| 06:16.19 | raster | if u are throwing out all the important other bits |
| 06:16.22 | *** join/#openmoko OdyX (n=OdyX@23-195.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 06:16.23 | raster | like being able to select text |
| 06:16.28 | raster | or place the cursor while kbd is up |
| 06:16.31 | raster | being able to scroll etc.; etc. |
| 06:16.48 | raster | then there is no need to have an exevie layer (tho i will add one ot e anyway) |
| 06:16.50 | ceda | why would moving the cursor not be possible? |
| 06:16.58 | ceda | I mean with CTRL+right arrowk key |
| 06:17.00 | raster | ceda: he keyboard is on top |
| 06:17.09 | raster | well not with your fingers |
| 06:17.13 | raster | u cant press where u want it |
| 06:17.19 | raster | u need to use cursor-keys |
| 06:17.22 | ceda | but I never do that anyway |
| 06:17.27 | sgrover | yabo: they guys seem deep in discussion on some coding / design issues. support questions are getting lost in the flood.. :) |
| 06:17.34 | mpr | yeah, 1&2&3 exactly |
| 06:17.41 | yabo | oh, sgrover.. hihi :-))) |
| 06:17.53 | raster | and of coruse 1+2+3 means.. compositign needs to work/be sane |
| 06:17.57 | ceda | raster: I use the mouse to click buttons. I don't use it to place the cursor, select text in an input etc |
| 06:18.08 | mpr | and I think that "either keyboard or app interaction, take your pick by clicking the qwerty icon" is a perfectly valid usage model |
| 06:18.10 | raster | and that itself isnt really something the Fr is going to be good at. |
| 06:18.15 | raster | your'e wait9ing for a new hw platform |
| 06:18.25 | yabo | anyway, Could someone help me install Python on my fr? I am using Qtopia, and i am getting long errorcodes when i try opkg |
| 06:18.59 | raster | that is the biggest crux of the problem - if u are willing to throw out inptu events goign anywhere other than the kbd |
| 06:19.32 | ceda | raster: ok. Thanks for answering. |
| 06:19.36 | ceda | *really should be going* |
| 06:20.20 | rooly | crap |
| 06:20.20 | raster | e already has a composite manager module |
| 06:20.21 | rooly | not working |
| 06:20.21 | mpr | yeah, I agree the transparency could be a showstopper for implementing that concept on the fr |
| 06:20.22 | raster | u can use xcompmgr |
| 06:20.36 | mpr | was just arguing against your other points :) |
| 06:20.36 | raster | it already supprots argb desiitnation dinwos - turn the option on |
| 06:20.43 | raster | and just have your theme use semi-trans gfx |
| 06:20.46 | raster | already all works |
| 06:20.59 | raster | only thing then that would need doing is the "dont resize apps" option |
| 06:21.23 | raster | i've already been considering that along with a draggable kbd |
| 06:21.27 | raster | ie it pops up from bottom |
| 06:21.31 | raster | and u can drag it to the top of the screen |
| 06:21.36 | raster | if u dont like it at the bottom |
| 06:21.40 | raster | thus just repositioning it |
| 06:21.52 | raster | this woudl go together with a "dont resize" option |
| 06:21.55 | *** join/#openmoko Elive_user39 (n=Elive_us@83.218.165.40) |
| 06:21.58 | Elive_user39 | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:22.08 | raster | as now it doesnt resize u may want to move the kebd out of the way of where u are seeing your entered text |
| 06:22.19 | mpr | yeah, kbd overlay w/ no resize would be useful |
| 06:22.27 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=user@61.16.248.242) |
| 06:22.32 | raster | and that'd without semi-transparency |
| 06:22.36 | raster | just solid windows |
| 06:22.52 | mpr | yeah, would be useful nonetheless |
| 06:23.15 | mpr | though sometimes the resize is better, so there'd have to be some kind of option somewhere to choose which one to do |
| 06:23.37 | *** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host81-159-1-3.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
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| 06:24.15 | raster | mpr: yes |
| 06:24.15 | rooly | maybe it is working... |
| 06:24.19 | raster | i'd make it an option globally |
| 06:24.23 | *** part/#openmoko Elive_user39 (n=Elive_us@83.218.165.40) |
| 06:24.30 | raster | and then apps can set hints fi they prefer to be resized or overlayed |
| 06:24.31 | mpr | and then the hard question, which one to make default :) |
| 06:24.40 | raster | then u'd also have an option to respect the apps hints or not |
| 06:24.53 | raster | i'd rather everything be a hard choice for a user as to what option to use |
| 06:25.00 | raster | not some complicated incantation of commands |
| 06:25.03 | raster | or having to write apps |
| 06:25.07 | raster | or install/uninstall packages |
| 06:25.08 | mpr | yeah |
| 06:25.17 | raster | just choose your poison - the way you like it |
| 06:25.22 | raster | in quick gui |
| 06:25.26 | mpr | but still you have to decide which one is the default w/ no hints and no user configuration |
| 06:25.30 | mpr | defaults are important |
| 06:25.45 | *** join/#openmoko ritz (n=ritesh@123.236.183.154) |
| 06:25.46 | rooly | yup, it's working |
| 06:25.50 | rooly | raster, saw my scripts? |
| 06:26.04 | mpr | i.e. is the global setting 'resize' or 'overlay' right after flashing the image |
| 06:26.15 | raster | rooly: yup. a "hack" - but would work |
| 06:26.16 | raster | :) |
| 06:26.38 | rooly | i'm testing the plugged in part again |
| 06:26.44 | rooly | just to make sure |
| 06:26.47 | raster | (well hack only because its done in /bin/sh ... and you dont use a generic batter/power class and go to specific freerunenr-only devices) |
| 06:26.48 | rooly | give it a minute... |
| 06:26.59 | raster | mrpthat would also be a user option |
| 06:27.04 | raster | user selects default mode |
| 06:27.09 | mpr | when? |
| 06:27.15 | rooly | well...i only own a freerunner |
| 06:27.15 | raster | app can have a "well i prefer this mode anyway" hint |
| 06:27.16 | mpr | some kind of pop-up during first boot? |
| 06:27.26 | rooly | does the battery talk to dbus? |
| 06:27.32 | raster | and then users can also have a "fuck the apps - do it my way always" mode |
| 06:27.38 | mpr | yeah |
| 06:28.02 | rooly | okay...seems to still be working... |
| 06:28.13 | rooly | does the usb0 stay 'up' when not connected? |
| 06:28.22 | mpr | but what's the value of the global option when the user gets the device to their hands for the first time? |
| 06:29.12 | *** join/#openmoko ritz (n=ritesh@123.236.183.154) |
| 06:29.24 | mpr | opensource people don't usually pay enough attention to default settings since everything in configurable, and as a result in a default desktop each application has some weird defaults which have to be configured by hand to make things usable |
| 06:29.51 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 06:29.59 | rooly | like kde... |
| 06:30.02 | rooly | bleghs |
| 06:30.11 | rooly | i'm sorry |
| 06:30.13 | *** join/#openmoko ritz (n=ritesh@123.236.183.154) |
| 06:30.16 | rooly | i had to take a crack at it |
| 06:30.19 | rooly | cringes |
| 06:31.30 | yabo | Could someone help me install Python on my fr? I am using Qtopia, and i am getting long errorcodes when i try opkg install with the unofficial repositories |
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| 06:43.12 | RayDar | wow. I finally got GPS working. |
| 06:43.19 | RayDar | tookahelluvalottawork |
| 06:43.37 | rwhitby | RayDar: with fso-testing image? |
| 06:44.15 | RayDar | rwhitby: Yessir |
| 06:44.56 | *** join/#openmoko doc|home (n=doc@S01060018f8599145.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 06:45.24 | gambler | how accurate is it RayDar |
| 06:46.30 | RayDar | gambler: Right now, I have it connected to an external antenna which is outside. It's dead-on and doesn't seem to be drifting much. |
| 06:46.34 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-171-194.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:47.27 | gambler | RayDar, why the antenna |
| 06:47.38 | gambler | unless your going to use it like that? |
| 06:47.56 | RayDar | gambler: I had heard that the first time it gets a fix it will take forever using the internal antenna. |
| 06:48.24 | RayDar | gambler: Yeah, I am probably going to use it like that. I have the antenna. It is sure to give better reception in the car. |
| 06:49.00 | RayDar | This GPS program that comes with the FSO is so lacking when compared to my Palm OS app. |
| 06:49.47 | gambler | I am really curious to know how it works without the antenna...Im having issues obtaining a device atm. |
| 06:50.47 | raster | mpr: the default value from first run - irrelevant iu thinmk |
| 06:51.00 | raster | once we are at that point ic onsider the problem solved |
| 06:51.01 | raster | :) |
| 06:51.10 | raster | u could have a first-run wizard |
| 06:51.19 | raster | (frankly we need one anyway - e has the infra for one) |
| 06:51.30 | RayDar | gambler: OK. I took off the external antenna. |
| 06:51.30 | raster | but then how lengthy do u make such a first-setup? |
| 06:51.34 | raster | how many things do u ask? |
| 06:51.42 | raster | do u collect things into macro config blobs? |
| 06:52.57 | mpr | you considering it irrelevant is the problem :) |
| 06:53.12 | mpr | even though the resize/overlay thing is good either way |
| 06:53.21 | mpr | but speaking more generally :) |
| 06:53.35 | mpr | and yeah I'm quite strongly against first-run wizards as well |
| 06:53.41 | mpr | just make the defaults sensible |
| 06:53.53 | raster | why is that bad? |
| 06:53.57 | raster | the options are there |
| 06:54.02 | raster | u dont like it one way - change the option |
| 06:54.08 | raster | problem is solved |
| 06:54.20 | raster | and u do need first-run wizards |
| 06:54.28 | raster | they just need to not be a 432 screen afair |
| 06:54.32 | raster | affair |
| 06:54.38 | raster | eg |
| 06:54.40 | mpr | it's bad if defaults are not optimal and everyone has to change something in the settings to make the device work well |
| 06:54.41 | raster | like set the time/date |
| 06:54.42 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03marek * r4661 10/trunk/src/host/pye17/ (Makefile evas/Makefile evas/evas.override): |
| 06:54.42 | CIA-22 | openmoko: disabled edje binding - can't work without other libs being built first |
| 06:54.42 | CIA-22 | openmoko: added linker information |
| 06:54.42 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 2 functions that are not implemented yet overridden |
| 06:54.42 | CIA-22 | openmoko: known issues: |
| 06:54.44 | CIA-22 | openmoko: evas crashes on "import evas" |
| 06:54.58 | raster | defaults will never make everyone happy |
| 06:55.00 | raster | ever |
| 06:55.02 | mpr | of course |
| 06:55.23 | mpr | but they can provide a working start point which everyone can then tweak to their needs |
| 06:55.28 | raster | i dont think its something to bother even debating until the optiosn are there |
| 06:55.31 | raster | and all the nuts and bolts work |
| 06:55.34 | raster | once its there |
| 06:55.42 | raster | and its just a question of defaults - worry about it then |
| 06:56.23 | *** join/#openmoko El_Senator (n=El_Senat@wartburg.auh.dk) |
| 06:57.02 | mpr | that worrying just is often left undone and devs say "ship it" with some completely random defaults :) |
| 06:57.12 | raster | thats fine |
| 06:57.22 | raster | as packagers can then ship different defaults |
| 06:57.24 | raster | eg |
| 06:57.25 | raster | fso |
| 06:57.26 | raster | om |
| 06:57.30 | *** join/#openmoko dracozna (i=thomas@cc408686-b.leek1.gr.home.nl) |
| 06:57.31 | raster | etc. |
| 06:57.32 | raster | :) |
| 06:57.56 | mpr | ..or not, most probably the defaults the upstream devs chose just go as-is to om factory images :) |
| 06:58.28 | raster | at that point "not my problem" |
| 06:58.36 | raster | chances are i'll make defaults somethnig *I* like |
| 06:58.38 | raster | and think is usable |
| 06:59.15 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@c-cf64e455.04-302-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 06:59.16 | mpr | well that's all that I expect, just that at least some thought is put to them at some point. :) |
| 06:59.16 | raster | chances are given my experience that i'll likely make a lot of people happy with that |
| 06:59.31 | *** join/#openmoko leinir (n=leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
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| 07:00.16 | raster | mpr: oh sure! |
| 07:00.19 | raster | dude |
| 07:00.28 | raster | u dont t5hink i'd make software i write at LEAST usabel for me? |
| 07:00.32 | raster | (out of the box) |
| 07:00.38 | raster | i'm a lazy bastard |
| 07:00.45 | raster | i dont want to have to write some custom config for myself |
| 07:00.51 | raster | and then b e the only one with that |
| 07:01.01 | raster | invariably - iun e land, e comes with what i like as the default |
| 07:01.04 | raster | not everyone likes it |
| 07:01.14 | raster | i know - that - thus i make so much stuff a config option |
| 07:01.32 | raster | but its normally a pretty usable default - and based on me actually using the stuff while developing it |
| 07:01.42 | raster | (eg i use e 24/7 - havew done so for years.) |
| 07:02.04 | raster | so it wont be arbitrary |
| 07:02.10 | mpr | yeah, I think the point has been made and no disagreement exists. :) |
| 07:02.12 | raster | but for example it'll have slopyp focus - not click to focus |
| 07:02.16 | raster | as i just despise click to focus |
| 07:02.40 | mpr | and yes I've been happy with your defaults so far, being a loud proponent of your 2008.8 image over the official ones and all. :) |
| 07:02.53 | raster | :) |
| 07:02.55 | beni_ | morning |
| 07:03.06 | raster | i do realise i need to make ti easier to package more defaults |
| 07:03.09 | raster | and make it easier to select |
| 07:03.17 | raster | eg first thing u get a window |
| 07:03.24 | raster | "which default profiel do u want?" |
| 07:03.29 | raster | "raster's" |
| 07:03.32 | raster | "om's" |
| 07:03.35 | raster | "mpr's" |
| 07:03.40 | raster | "yo momma's" |
| 07:03.42 | raster | ... |
| 07:04.06 | raster | (and just pre-can a selection of favorite ones by default so peoepl can choose from one of N pre-setup starting points) |
| 07:04.14 | *** join/#openmoko NineX (i=ninex@NineX.eu.org) |
| 07:04.42 | mpr | not a very high priority imo |
| 07:04.49 | mpr | just make the default profile good. :) |
| 07:04.58 | raster | imho more important than many other things :) |
| 07:05.05 | raster | its all alreayd there anyway |
| 07:05.10 | raster | profile handling etc. |
| 07:05.21 | *** join/#openmoko leinir (n=leinir@amarok/usability/leinir) |
| 07:05.28 | *** join/#openmoko yabo (i=d9c73682@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-07c060d499613316) |
| 07:06.08 | mpr | yeah, but if the default's good then it's easier to just change a few options that bother you than find out whether mpr's profile or yo momma's is better |
| 07:06.37 | raster | sure |
| 07:06.40 | raster | then just use default |
| 07:06.55 | raster | but if you've seen screenshots of mpr's profile and like what u hjear |
| 07:06.58 | raster | select it first go |
| 07:07.03 | raster | save the tweaking |
| 07:07.09 | mpr | sure |
| 07:07.17 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.196.134.191) |
| 07:07.33 | mpr | but not very relevant before we even have more than a few options to configure :) |
| 07:08.00 | mpr | when the option count goes in the dozens or more then the profiles would indeed become useful |
| 07:08.19 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:09.00 | raster | mrp actually e has 100's of options |
| 07:09.08 | raster | thats why |
| 07:09.11 | mpr | illume not so much :) |
| 07:09.19 | raster | u have been exposed to a mere fraction of them |
| 07:09.25 | raster | illume has only a few |
| 07:09.30 | raster | but it relies on certain e setup |
| 07:09.37 | raster | ther4es stuff that u just dont get access to |
| 07:09.45 | raster | because its been de-configured and removed |
| 07:09.48 | raster | eg virtual desktops |
| 07:09.55 | raster | screen rotate/resiolution |
| 07:09.59 | mpr | I do use e17 as well and have seen the config screen, so yes I do see why you're implementing profiles |
| 07:10.04 | raster | keybindings (auxpower) |
| 07:10.08 | mpr | just talking from the perspective of fr at the moment |
| 07:10.08 | raster | screenlock options |
| 07:10.17 | raster | i'm being more general |
| 07:10.20 | raster | :) |
| 07:10.49 | yabo | Hello |
| 07:11.00 | yabo | i am trying to install python, but i cant do it |
| 07:11.02 | raster | my fso image right now has e with dropshadows, different theme, virtual desktosp etc. etc. |
| 07:11.04 | yabo | opkg fails |
| 07:11.11 | raster | even illume will grow many more options over time |
| 07:11.13 | yabo | i am on a freerunenr with qtopia |
| 07:11.15 | raster | inf act illume needs to be split |
| 07:11.18 | yabo | could someone help me out please? |
| 07:11.23 | *** join/#openmoko hklein (n=hklein@i59F7048D.versanet.de) |
| 07:11.28 | raster | its justa big lump to save dev time |
| 07:11.36 | raster | it really needs splitting into smaller sub-units |
| 07:11.40 | raster | like the gagdets |
| 07:11.59 | raster | the boxes with +'s at the bottom just need to go out of illume and be some desktop gadget |
| 07:12.03 | raster | same with launcher icons |
| 07:12.03 | *** join/#openmoko neldoreth (n=ascot@unixboard/users/neldoreth) |
| 07:12.16 | raster | its simplelock screenclock too should be a module |
| 07:12.33 | raster | power management (suspend/shutdown, etc.) shoudl be come a powermanagement module on its own |
| 07:12.45 | raster | the keyboard in illume should be split |
| 07:12.55 | raster | the core vkbd handling rolled back into e17 itself |
| 07:13.04 | raster | and many other things |
| 07:13.30 | raster | give it time and it will grow a boatload of options |
| 07:14.24 | mpr | is the plan to do those changes to illume or just to work on e and forget illume? |
| 07:15.05 | raster | illume is in e svn |
| 07:15.13 | raster | so things will shuffle about |
| 07:15.24 | mpr | but you're running e and not illume on fso? |
| 07:16.01 | raster | illume is a module for e |
| 07:16.04 | raster | its just a plugin |
| 07:16.06 | raster | illume is not a wm |
| 07:16.11 | raster | it is not a different/separate app |
| 07:16.16 | mpr | yesyes, but you're not using the illume module. :) |
| 07:16.17 | raster | it si just a module for e |
| 07:16.23 | raster | i am using illume |
| 07:16.27 | mpr | oh |
| 07:16.31 | raster | why wouldnt i be? |
| 07:16.44 | raster | otherwise e would be exactly like on the desktop |
| 07:16.47 | raster | no different |
| 07:16.48 | raster | no vkbd |
| 07:16.59 | raster | no "top panel" |
| 07:17.03 | raster | no gsm signal gadget |
| 07:17.13 | mpr | misunderstood from your earlier comment that you were using the pure desktop version |
| 07:17.29 | mpr | so you have virtual desktops etc. visible through illume? |
| 07:17.35 | raster | yes |
| 07:17.42 | mpr | neat |
| 07:17.54 | raster | i stuck the pager in the top row of gadgets (that slides out when u press the top bar) |
| 07:17.55 | mpr | is your fso-based image public?-) |
| 07:18.03 | raster | nup |
| 07:18.07 | raster | i dont release it |
| 07:18.13 | raster | and its not built this way |
| 07:18.21 | raster | i had to change profiel and theme manually |
| 07:18.31 | *** part/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peeps@cpe-67-9-161-48.austin.res.rr.com) |
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| 07:29.27 | yabo | Halp! |
| 07:29.32 | yabo | Python on Qtopia anyone? |
| 07:29.37 | *** join/#openmoko zmedico (n=zmedico@gentoo/developer/zmedico) |
| 07:29.49 | raster | icanhazcheezburger? |
| 07:29.58 | yabo | icanhashalpplez? |
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| 07:31.40 | |FiLiP| | RayDar: what PalmOS GPS are/were you using ? |
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| 07:46.04 | RayDar | |FiLiP|: GeoNiche http://www.RayDarLLC.com |
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| 07:51.41 | Daramarak | What can a mokoless guy do to help the community out? I have to wait until October, and I want to contribute. |
| 07:53.56 | raster | yabo: unfortunately.. looks like no one knows about python+qtopia |
| 07:54.07 | yabo | aw.. |
| 07:54.28 | yabo | which distros do opkg work on? |
| 07:54.35 | yabo | or python.. |
| 07:54.40 | raster | openembedded |
| 07:54.52 | *** part/#openmoko ChandleWEi (n=chandle@210.13.121.62) |
| 07:54.55 | raster | tho thats mroe a distro-building thnig |
| 07:55.30 | *** join/#openmoko yabo (i=d9c73682@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9425527d16bb6558) |
| 07:55.36 | yabo | hm |
| 07:55.50 | yabo | are there any more? |
| 07:56.00 | yabo | i like how qtopia is easy |
| 07:56.17 | yabo | how is debian? |
| 07:56.23 | raster | there are multiple distributions for the freerunner |
| 07:56.28 | raster | they all build from openembedded |
| 07:56.33 | raster | so they all use ipkg/opkg |
| 07:56.39 | RayDar | yabo: I am using FSO. It's interesting. |
| 07:56.55 | yabo | oh yes? |
| 07:57.53 | *** join/#openmoko Sonicadvance1 (n=Sonic@24-116-252-18.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 07:58.01 | yabo | python works on fso or? |
| 07:58.10 | yabo | im ready to try anything.. |
| 07:58.57 | RayDar | yabo: python is installed by default on FSO. I can't say whether it works or not. |
| 07:59.14 | yabo | oh |
| 07:59.33 | *** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.167.73.233) |
| 07:59.52 | yabo | what about debian? |
| 08:00.15 | RayDar | dunno |
| 08:00.18 | yabo | oh yes, how does FSO look btw? |
| 08:00.22 | yabo | likes neat guis :p |
| 08:02.06 | RayDar | yabo: It's pretty, but spartan. To get an real work done, you gotta use ssh. |
| 08:02.22 | mpr | on debian you can just apt-get python |
| 08:02.32 | yabo | cool |
| 08:02.56 | yabo | but |
| 08:03.00 | yabo | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FSO |
| 08:03.13 | yabo | is not very helping as far as installing fso goes |
| 08:03.43 | yabo | is it like the others? get uimage and rootfs and use dfu-util to flash? |
| 08:03.46 | *** join/#openmoko HauDyr (n=kim@wnn73219.wireless.dtu.dk) |
| 08:03.57 | hadara | yabo: most of the stuff in FSO is written in python so it most certainly works |
| 08:04.13 | raster | yabo: debian does not fit on flash |
| 08:04.17 | raster | u have to run off sd-card |
| 08:04.26 | yabo | i want fso |
| 08:04.27 | raster | fso USES python for the phone framework |
| 08:04.29 | raster | so yes - it works |
| 08:04.39 | RayDar | yabo: Yeah. They make a lot of things super-secret. I would recommend getting the .jffs2 and .bin files from http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-testing/images/ and flashing them with dfu-util |
| 08:04.50 | yabo | oki, thanks |
| 08:05.12 | yabo | fso-image-om-gta02.jffs2 |
| 08:05.15 | yabo | is the most recent one? |
| 08:05.21 | RayDar | yuppers |
| 08:05.37 | RayDar | get the uImage.....bin at the bottom too |
| 08:06.47 | yabo | okies, thanks a bunch |
| 08:10.08 | *** part/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 08:10.13 | *** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 08:11.52 | *** join/#openmoko mrmoku (n=mok@ppp-88-217-56-239.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 08:13.40 | sirkha | will the openmoko charge when off? |
| 08:13.48 | sirkha | err freerunner? |
| 08:14.05 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-200-69.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 08:16.57 | *** join/#openmoko tschaka (n=tschaka@p5B0EA865.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 08:23.46 | *** join/#openmoko sakkara (n=sakkara@80.121.180.94) |
| 08:25.27 | *** join/#openmoko yabo (i=d9c73682@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-233aa35e470cc21b) |
| 08:25.52 | *** join/#openmoko sakkara (n=sakkara@80.121.180.94) |
| 08:26.18 | yabo | meh |
| 08:26.32 | yabo | no enough time to flash it now |
| 08:26.38 | yabo | takes like 10min to install rootfs right? |
| 08:27.54 | Tuju | http://dfu-programmer.sourceforge.net/ does this have anything to do with dfu-util? |
| 08:28.18 | Tuju | since dfu-util is in openmoko svn, i'd guess they are different projects. |
| 08:31.53 | *** join/#openmoko zogg_ (n=zogg@78-62-16-160.static.zebra.lt) |
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| 08:43.29 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@leased-line-250-127.telecom.by) |
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| 08:46.06 | zogg_ | w00t, compiled powertop |
| 08:46.25 | zogg_ | anybody ever tried using it? |
| 08:50.15 | RayDar | Is powertop like sloppypartybottom? |
| 08:50.55 | zogg_ | shall i google the word? :)) |
| 08:50.57 | *** join/#openmoko tobmaster (n=tobmaste@gw.sinnerschrader.com) |
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| 08:54.47 | *** part/#openmoko alphabeat1 (n=nick@60-241-37-3.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 08:54.55 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@monitor.interfree.it) |
| 08:58.36 | zogg_ | whoah, 9 hits! |
| 08:58.51 | zogg_ | however, it has more in common with this http://www.lesswatts.org/projects/powertop/ |
| 08:59.00 | *** join/#openmoko anno^da_ (n=anno^da@p5492BA08.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 09:00.59 | RayDar | gotta go |
| 09:03.22 | *** join/#openmoko NineX (i=ninex@NineX.eu.org) |
| 09:07.56 | *** join/#openmoko Stroller (n=Stroller@213-152-39-89.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) |
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| 09:09.59 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 09:12.52 | Shlee | Are sms's stored on the flash or SD cart? |
| 09:13.14 | Shlee | on qtopia/om? |
| 09:13.53 | leinir | ...or on the sim :) |
| 09:14.22 | Shlee | If they are stored on the sim.... I cannot find an option to move them around (or backup to sim) |
| 09:14.32 | Shlee | but sim would be good.. so I can format/upgrade |
| 09:14.58 | max_posedon | I didn't foundout how store sms on sim, and contacts also... ( |
| 09:15.19 | leinir | contacts you just have to look into the Options menu :) |
| 09:15.22 | leinir | (hint - select all) |
| 09:15.25 | Shlee | nods. |
| 09:15.32 | leinir | sms i don't know, though :) |
| 09:16.54 | max_posedon | leinir, thanks) |
| 09:17.42 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 09:19.28 | Shlee | this whole sms thing is a little annoying :( |
| 09:19.35 | Shlee | id love a export to xml thing. |
| 09:20.06 | max_posedon | Shlee, As I tested, sms stored on sim my default. |
| 09:20.14 | max_posedon | *by* |
| 09:21.07 | *** join/#openmoko t_s_o (n=tso@135.84-49-129.nextgentel.com) |
| 09:21.21 | Shlee | removes sim from phone and tests.. |
| 09:25.35 | *** join/#openmoko NineX (i=ninex@2001:16b0:1005:0:0:0:0:3) |
| 09:29.47 | Shlee | ok, qtopia sms's are stored on the flash... |
| 09:30.08 | Shlee | :( |
| 09:30.31 | ronny | they put a sqlite db there |
| 09:30.37 | ronny | i hate them for that |
| 09:30.39 | *** join/#openmoko DPThought (n=tilli@mail.collax.com) |
| 09:31.01 | Shlee | They should move onto sd by default.. **makes a ticket** |
| 09:32.32 | lindi- | Shlee: why? |
| 09:33.12 | rwhitby | so that people who forget to backup before reflashing don't loose their SMS database ... |
| 09:33.15 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 09:33.49 | lindi- | i think the reflashing is the problem :/ |
| 09:34.20 | rwhitby | indeed - imaging reinstalling your Debian system every couple of days ... |
| 09:34.31 | rwhitby | s/imaging/imagine/ |
| 09:35.13 | max_posedon | Shlee, run "System Info" from Applications, and open last tab |
| 09:35.14 | lindi- | hmm, what controls when openmoko will charge from usb? it is connected to usb charger now but stays at 84% |
| 09:35.19 | max_posedon | named "sim" |
| 09:35.25 | lindi- | i grepped frameworkd source code and it doesn't mention charging much |
| 09:35.32 | max_posedon | you will see, that sms stored on sim, *also*. |
| 09:35.46 | lindi- | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:36.41 | lindi- | i have seen this before, 84% is somehow magical here |
| 09:38.33 | *** join/#openmoko icman__ (n=icman@123-240-172-254.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 09:38.44 | rwhitby | tests whether "make qemu" still works ... |
| 09:38.47 | *** join/#openmoko NineX (i=ninex@do-ninex-v6.cdp.pl) |
| 09:38.48 | *** join/#openmoko mr_nice (n=nice@91-65-152-238-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 09:38.51 | Shlee | Remove the by default and replace with - if perferable. |
| 09:39.00 | lindi- | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:40.18 | Shlee | preferable |
| 09:41.44 | *** join/#openmoko giantHogweed (n=Frank@Pb88c.p.pppool.de) |
| 09:43.53 | rwhitby | Hmm - openmoko daily testing image for gta01 doesn't work with qemu - it just immediately reboots to u-boot menu continuously |
| 09:44.10 | rwhitby | let's try fso-testing ... |
| 09:47.46 | *** join/#openmoko thrashold (n=milko@3mhz.net) |
| 09:49.49 | *** join/#openmoko igor321 (n=igor@140-118.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 09:50.22 | thrashold | Hello, I'm trying to play with debian on the Neo1973, can anyone suggest an audio player to use? I'm trying mpd with some frontends, but I'm still struggling to find how to use mpd, and I can't get a right click to shutdown my frontend. :) |
| 09:50.40 | *** join/#openmoko maiki (n=maiki@c-76-102-6-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 09:51.51 | *** join/#openmoko kth5 (n=kth5@edge.smeet.de) |
| 09:58.28 | *** join/#openmoko sledgeas (n=leleiva@galahad.fbk.eu) |
| 09:58.31 | sledgeas | hello |
| 09:58.54 | sledgeas | what happens if i remove sim and sd card while FR is running? which processes should i stop before? |
| 09:59.13 | sledgeas | (i mean, FR is usb-powered) |
| 10:00.55 | sledgeas | (Om2008.8) |
| 10:01.22 | max_posedon | sd card should be unmounted |
| 10:01.40 | max_posedon | also I suggest power off the gsm module. |
| 10:01.43 | thrashold | sledgeas: Unless someone states that hot-swapping this is not dangerous, I would suggest you not to try. But still, you should unmount the card, and stop the gsm power. |
| 10:01.49 | Shlee | ok, the qtmail application includes a qtopia_db.sqlite on the flash.. this should atleast let you backup the sms from a Qtopia release *hopefully* |
| 10:02.00 | *** join/#openmoko mrmoku (n=mok@ppp-93-104-122-42.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 10:02.10 | DPThought | Can i use midi as ringtones on fso? Or does someone know a source for the monkey island theme in SID? If not i can allways convert it to mpp3, but would be cool if i would not need to :) |
| 10:03.12 | sledgeas | max_posedon, thrashold: my Om(2008.~9) does not allow me to umount /media/mmcblk0p2 even -f, says device is busy, but i don't use any shells cd`ed into that dir. and which is the gsm daemon? `find /etc | grep gsm' gives nothing |
| 10:04.30 | max_posedon | sledgeas, you can try find app, that used your flash with "fuser" or "lsof", but I didn't know is they included in Om(2008.~9) |
| 10:04.52 | sledgeas | fuser exists |
| 10:05.22 | sledgeas | fuser /media/mmcblk0p2 gives nothing :( |
| 10:07.01 | *** join/#openmoko Richy (n=richy@91-64-139-182-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 10:07.58 | sledgeas | max_posedon: .. |
| 10:08.33 | sledgeas | opkg install lsof .... |
| 10:08.55 | *** join/#openmoko Bill_ (n=Bill@217-159-236-172-th.kjj.estpak.ee) |
| 10:09.08 | zogg_ | k, so i want to recompile kernel. Anyone share some directions? |
| 10:09.13 | zogg_ | please? ^.^ |
| 10:09.36 | *** join/#openmoko playya_ (n=playya@p579B8444.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:09.57 | sledgeas | lsof also gives nothing |
| 10:10.02 | *** join/#openmoko fale (n=fale@89-96-108-175.ip12.fastwebnet.it) |
| 10:10.29 | max_posedon | sledgeas, use lsof | grep "/media/mccblk0p2" |
| 10:11.12 | max_posedon | If it return nothing, it mmcblk0p2 can be unmounted. |
| 10:11.25 | sledgeas | yeah, thanks, worked ;) |
| 10:11.26 | sledgeas | strange |
| 10:11.37 | sledgeas | udhcpc locked on /media/mmcblk0p2/lib/modules ! |
| 10:11.43 | sledgeas | where i keep my debian |
| 10:11.43 | sledgeas | :) |
| 10:14.07 | sledgeas | thanks, pal ;) |
| 10:14.18 | sledgeas | now, what is the gsm daemon on Om2008.~9 ? |
| 10:16.49 | mjr | it's qtopia's integrated gsm stack |
| 10:16.55 | igor321 | hi anyone got a phone from pulster these days? |
| 10:17.18 | max_posedon | sledgeas, you shouldn't stop gsm daemon, I think |
| 10:17.26 | max_posedon | just power off the gsm module |
| 10:18.11 | *** join/#openmoko Varox (n=Varox@p4FD46675.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:23.01 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-171-194.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:25.28 | kth5 | are thos ethe latest images for my gta01bv4? http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2007.11/images/neo1973/ |
| 10:26.03 | kth5 | or can i use any gta02 rootfs jffs2 as well and pick just the uimage and u-boot from here? |
| 10:26.29 | *** join/#openmoko univac_ (n=univac@abza196.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 10:28.17 | sakkara | igor321: i got mine last week |
| 10:29.28 | *** join/#openmoko rddDavid51 (n=roudoudo@gar31-1-82-224-8-235.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:36.09 | thrashold | kth5: I was trying to compile my own with no success. Then I installed Debian and I'm happy. :) |
| 10:36.54 | igor321 | sakkara: from the 15.9. batch? |
| 10:38.22 | rwhitby | kth5: latest images for gta01 are in fso-testing |
| 10:38.40 | sakkara | igor321: yes |
| 10:38.44 | rwhitby | or downloads.openmoko.org/daily (but those are untested) |
| 10:38.59 | igor321 | sakkara: did they send you an email right before shipping? |
| 10:39.17 | rwhitby | kth5: you can't use a gta02 rootfs |
| 10:44.02 | *** join/#openmoko Xecuter (n=yo@c82C345C1.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 10:44.05 | Xecuter | hi! |
| 10:44.55 | *** part/#openmoko shaz (n=shazaliv@116.58.100.82) |
| 10:45.27 | Xecuter | i've update the splash-screen, but now things wont boot, i have to manually go into NOR flash and choose boot |
| 10:45.40 | Shlee | cp ./home/root/Applications/qtmail/qtopia_db.sqlite ./media/card/sms.sqlite |
| 10:45.48 | Shlee | fffs |
| 10:46.22 | Xecuter | it might not be the splash thats faulty, i installed debian and did something with the boot... |
| 10:47.11 | sakkara | igor321: yes, they did |
| 10:47.12 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03marek * r4662 10/trunk/src/host/pye17/evas/ (Makefile evas.override): |
| 10:47.12 | CIA-22 | openmoko: remove gtk dependency |
| 10:47.12 | CIA-22 | openmoko: beautify makefile |
| 10:47.56 | igor321 | sakkara: thanks for the info, i paid and still haven't received that email, so i'm contacting them now |
| 10:48.33 | *** join/#openmoko emonkey (n=emonkey@84-74-82-151.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:49.15 | *** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.167.119.124) |
| 10:50.56 | sakkara | igor321: when did you pay? maybe you're in the next batch... |
| 10:51.11 | igor321 | sakkara: 28.8. |
| 10:51.16 | igor321 | you? |
| 10:52.05 | sakkara | 3.8. |
| 10:52.15 | igor321 | i see :) |
| 10:52.22 | sakkara | ^^ |
| 10:52.27 | igor321 | it ain't easy to get this phone |
| 10:52.33 | sakkara | yeah... |
| 10:52.59 | CIA-22 | openmoko: 03julian_chu 07org.openmoko.dev * r271411ec6e60 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [om-locations] Switch back to master branch |
| 10:53.03 | sakkara | but if you get it later, there will be more bugfixes :o) |
| 10:53.04 | *** join/#openmoko Daramarak (n=user@138.80-203-148.nextgentel.com) |
| 10:53.08 | enriko | hey |
| 10:53.20 | enriko | where did you guys ordered the phone from |
| 10:55.40 | igor321 | pulster.eu |
| 10:56.07 | igor321 | sakkara: yeah i know but i was anxious to play with it |
| 10:56.45 | igor321 | either the demand is really great or they're producing real small batches of them |
| 10:56.56 | igor321 | i placed my order 4 months ago! |
| 10:58.07 | kth5 | thrashold: rwhitby: thx for the info :) |
| 10:58.30 | *** join/#openmoko Daramarak (n=user@138.80-203-148.nextgentel.com) |
| 10:59.14 | enriko | i ordered from golden delicious in germany |
| 10:59.24 | enriko | they first sent to the wrong address |
| 10:59.32 | enriko | then they got it back and sent it again |
| 10:59.32 | sakkara | igor321: yeah, i think the payment counts for pulster... |
| 10:59.38 | enriko | it came in 2 days |
| 11:00.59 | igor321 | sakkara: yeah, i just couldn't pay sooner cause they didn't send me the "transfer details" mail before 25.8. |
| 11:01.05 | igor321 | i don't really mind |
| 11:01.18 | igor321 | just want to make sure they've received my payment |
| 11:01.40 | igor321 | as you said the more i wait the more bugfixer are out |
| 11:01.47 | igor321 | fixes* |
| 11:02.35 | igor321 | has anyone an idea as to how many gta02s have been sold? |
| 11:02.56 | SpeedEvil | igor321: >1K |
| 11:03.01 | sakkara | hm, they didn't send you a payment recieve mail? |
| 11:03.11 | igor321 | sakkara: nope |
| 11:03.23 | SpeedEvil | igor321: about 700 I think through the main store - who knows through other stores. |
| 11:03.24 | igor321 | that's my main concern |
| 11:03.28 | sakkara | i got mine 2 days after payment... |
| 11:03.49 | sakkara | maybe there was a problem |
| 11:04.03 | beni_ | can i upgrade from 2008.8-update to 2008.9 with opk? or do i really need to flash the eintire rootfs? |
| 11:04.11 | igor321 | sakkara: but you said you paid on 3.8. and got it on 15.9. ? |
| 11:04.33 | *** join/#openmoko cbrake (n=cbrake@oh-69-34-21-229.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 11:04.55 | sakkara | got my FR on 15.9. |
| 11:04.59 | igor321 | SpeedEvil: why are they producing such small quantities? can't they outsource or something |
| 11:05.14 | sakkara | they told me, i will get it with the 15.9. batch |
| 11:05.22 | SpeedEvil | igor321: They have the capacity |
| 11:05.46 | SpeedEvil | igor321: I guess it's that they don't want stuck with unsold ones so they're being cautious. |
| 11:05.46 | igor321 | sakkara: so you got the mail two days later? |
| 11:06.15 | igor321 | SpeedEvil: i feel they're a bit too cautious, as i've ordered my fr 4 frickin months ago |
| 11:06.30 | *** join/#openmoko rjack (n=ritucci@adsl-ull-139-7.51-151.net24.it) |
| 11:06.54 | *** join/#openmoko `pwgen` (n=ew@k3.natout.cs.aau.dk) |
| 11:07.07 | Daramarak | Smaller batches means that they have to recall fewer units if something should be amiss |
| 11:08.00 | *** join/#openmoko HauDyr (n=kim@wnn73219.wireless.dtu.dk) |
| 11:08.22 | igor321 | not very businessy, i guess the gta02 is still development model |
| 11:08.31 | sakkara | igor321: yes, mail 2 days after payment... |
| 11:08.34 | igor321 | i hope they play it differently with gta03 |
| 11:09.05 | Daramarak | While developing it has to be that way. |
| 11:09.11 | igor321 | sakkara: just sent them an email, hope they were busy and didn't notice, cause it says confirmed on my banks site |
| 11:09.39 | Daramarak | sakkara: Where did you order from? |
| 11:09.54 | igor321 | Daramarak: yeah, i guess terms like "mass production" have confused me |
| 11:10.29 | *** join/#openmoko xMDKx (n=mdkcore@nat/mandriva/x-291bf0ed4052ac81) |
| 11:11.15 | xMDKx | hi |
| 11:11.33 | Daramarak | igor321: They also might be unsure how many units to produce before the market is saturated. |
| 11:12.49 | igor321 | Daramarak: i'm sure they are, but making batches of 500 or less is VERY conservative, like i've said, i made my order 4 months ago |
| 11:13.35 | Daramarak | igor321: They might have underestimated how popular this unstable gadget would be. |
| 11:14.15 | sledgeas | max_posedon: how do i power off the gsm module? lsmod gives out only ipv6 |
| 11:14.32 | max_posedon | sledgeas, from qtopia or openmoko? |
| 11:14.38 | sledgeas | om2008.~9 :) |
| 11:14.56 | igor321 | Daramarak: they seem to have underestimated the unstable is fun crowd ;) |
| 11:15.36 | max_posedon | slaxxin, just in settings, where you can power on/off wifi/gps/etc. |
| 11:15.56 | sledgeas | ok gotcha ;) autocomplete :) |
| 11:16.38 | sledgeas | max_posedon: it does not exist.. only wifi, bt, gps.. |
| 11:16.52 | sledgeas | i need to power off gsm |
| 11:17.00 | Daramarak | igor321:Yeah :) In this forum you got 2 categories, people complaining about not getting their FR soon enough. And the other half have received it, and cannot get it to work. Amazing how the second group doesnt seem to discourage the first. |
| 11:17.35 | igor321 | Daramarak: amazing indeed :) |
| 11:17.59 | *** join/#openmoko tholin_ (n=tholin@c-cf64e455.04-302-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 11:18.11 | max_posedon | sledgeas, hm.. right now I'm using qtopia, May be I don't remember exactly how to do this in openmoko. In Qtopia in Devtools it is just a "application". |
| 11:18.25 | sledgeas | Mm. |
| 11:18.50 | Daramarak | igor321: You got yours now? |
| 11:18.58 | max_posedon | sledgeas, You can try check the wiki, may be there you can find "echo"-command to turing gsm off. |
| 11:19.18 | sledgeas | looking |
| 11:19.19 | igor321 | Daramarak: nope, i'm in the first category |
| 11:19.32 | igor321 | hope it won't be 5 months :) |
| 11:20.23 | lindi- | TAsn: do you still hear the robo voice? |
| 11:20.27 | max_posedon | sledgeas, root@fic-gta01:~$ echo "1" > /sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/power_on |
| 11:20.51 | max_posedon | (this is for power on, now I think you easy find out how power off) |
| 11:21.33 | Daramarak | igor321:Me too, have to wait until the 20th of October, but Pulster threw in a pouch and headset as a compensation. |
| 11:22.05 | *** join/#openmoko jprinsloo (n=jprinslo@nat/novell/x-ce5083dbee62dd75) |
| 11:22.25 | sledgeas | max_posedon: found at the same time as you :) i hope this has turned the gsm subsys off entirely, as to any operations to sim are cancelled.. |
| 11:22.28 | igor321 | Daramarak: of OCTOBER? damn.... you see, the batches are really incredibly small |
| 11:22.35 | TAsn | lindi-, yes. |
| 11:22.41 | TAsn | even opened a bug. |
| 11:23.32 | TAsn | lindi-, hehe that's a bit out of the blue, what made you think about it? |
| 11:23.34 | lindi- | TAsn: searching for robo voice at bugs.openmoko.org did not find it |
| 11:23.57 | TAsn | i thought it's fso related so i put it in their trac |
| 11:24.06 | TAsn | didn't even know about bugs.openmoko ;] |
| 11:24.10 | TAsn | i will look there. |
| 11:24.52 | lindi- | TAsn: http://trac.freesmartphone.org/search?q=robo+voice&wiki=on&changeset=on&ticket=on does not find anything either |
| 11:25.19 | Tig| | igor321: why don't you just cancel your order and get it from a reseller that has them in stock? |
| 11:25.31 | TAsn | lol |
| 11:25.32 | igor321 | Tig|: already paid |
| 11:25.35 | *** join/#openmoko janroot (n=jprinslo@nat/novell/x-2e577f882530016a) |
| 11:25.37 | TAsn | i didn't call it robo voice there |
| 11:25.42 | TAsn | it's distorted voice |
| 11:25.42 | TAsn | ;] |
| 11:26.08 | lindi- | http://trac.freesmartphone.org/search?q=distorded+voice&wiki=on&changeset=on&ticket=on => No matches found. |
| 11:26.26 | Tig| | igor321: ask them to refund it if they can't get it to you in a reasonable time, 5 months is ridiculous imho when you could go to https://www.truebox.co.uk/trueboxportal/index.php?wk=OpenMoko and get one today |
| 11:26.54 | *** join/#openmoko kth5 (n=kth5@archlinux/developer/kth5) |
| 11:27.04 | TAsn | #151 |
| 11:27.12 | TAsn | search for distorted |
| 11:27.14 | thrashold | I turn the USB to hostmode, and when I type lsusb on the device, it hangs. There is nothing connected to the USB. What's causing this? |
| 11:27.39 | thrashold | That's on Debian and ASU, on Neo1973 |
| 11:27.47 | lindi- | TAsn: ok so no extra info yet |
| 11:27.53 | lindi- | TAsn: we need to figure out how to record a sample call |
| 11:27.54 | TAsn | lindi-, nope |
| 11:28.00 | TAsn | lindi-, ;] |
| 11:28.12 | TAsn | i wish i had another phone that can record. |
| 11:28.22 | igor321 | Tig|: i don't even think that a refund is possible, and the price is really low with them, so i think i'll be waiting some more |
| 11:28.28 | lindi- | TAsn: we could do it internally |
| 11:28.39 | TAsn | lindi-, i think there's an app for my symbian phone. |
| 11:28.52 | TAsn | lindi-, we could, but we don't know how ;] |
| 11:29.12 | lindi- | TAsn: zhone shows 0 as signal level now and i hear the voice |
| 11:30.32 | lindi- | now it even says "No Service" |
| 11:30.54 | TAsn | the robo voice? |
| 11:30.57 | lindi- | yep |
| 11:30.58 | TAsn | or a regular voice |
| 11:31.01 | TAsn | i c. |
| 11:31.07 | TAsn | well i also get it when i have full signal. |
| 11:31.58 | TAsn | cya |
| 11:32.05 | TAsn | i gtg, i have a test now. |
| 11:32.09 | TAsn | wish me luck. ;] |
| 11:32.36 | thrashold | So I must have power on the USB, for it to work? |
| 11:34.16 | lindi- | thrashold: probably |
| 11:34.25 | lindi- | thrashold: and the ohci module loaded |
| 11:34.54 | thrashold | OK, so I have to make another cable then... And find a mobile source of 5V... |
| 11:35.16 | thrashold | When I provided 5V it didn't hang.. |
| 11:36.08 | *** join/#openmoko christooss (n=matic@BSN-95-237-77.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 11:36.33 | SpeedEvil | thre: you got gta01? |
| 11:36.38 | SpeedEvil | ra: |
| 11:36.51 | thrashold | SpeedEvil: Yes |
| 11:37.04 | SpeedEvil | just checking |
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| 11:41.45 | *** join/#openmoko akriegisch (n=adi@86.59.64.47) |
| 11:43.33 | thrashold | I just wanted to turn my Neo into a remote shutter controller for my camera :) But it seems I can't do it without an external power supply :) |
| 11:43.56 | *** part/#openmoko TeXitoi (n=texitoi@30.39.68-86.rev.gaoland.net) |
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| 12:00.51 | thrashold | Can I turn the screen orientation without restarting X? I could in Om2007.X:) |
| 12:01.40 | max_posedon | FDOM has application that can do it. |
| 12:02.43 | gromez | thrashold: xrandr -o <number> |
| 12:04.12 | *** join/#openmoko imreh (n=imreh@alxp91.physics.ox.ac.uk) |
| 12:04.45 | thrashold | Well, thanks. :) Unfortunately that doesn't seem to work in Debian, will have to research this :) |
| 12:05.30 | kth5 | weird, i just flashed the latest release image with uboot and uImage on my gta01 and it seems the touchscreen doesn't work. it makes the click sound when it get's hit by the stylus but doesn't do anything |
| 12:06.01 | gregdude | Hi! is anyone here involved with the OM GSM developement? was was trying to find out about the meaning of some parameters returned alongside the cell information |
| 12:06.59 | hklein | gregdude, which ones? |
| 12:07.30 | sakkara | Daramarak: pulster.de |
| 12:08.16 | gregdude | hklein, the time_alignmnt of Neighbour Cell Information |
| 12:08.46 | akriegisch | thrashold: Debian uses fbdev instead of accellerated xglamo server. |
| 12:08.58 | hklein | sorry, dunno, maybe related to GSM time slots, or the hysteresis to not switch forth and back between towers |
| 12:09.04 | akriegisch | thrashold: xglamo isn't ready for primetime on debian yet. |
| 12:09.32 | gregdude | just i cannot seem to find anything in the documentation anywhere, maybe it has a different name usually... |
| 12:10.15 | gregdude | i try to map the GSM cells with the OM, and trying to use all available info for the triangulation.... |
| 12:10.36 | thrashold | akriegisch: I see, thanks :) |
| 12:11.32 | gregdude | i don't think the recieved field strength alone is enough, probably.... |
| 12:11.59 | *** join/#openmoko renato_ (n=renato@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:14.05 | SpeedEvil | gregdude: you only get the align of the cell you're logged into |
| 12:14.11 | SpeedEvil | gregdude: you can't force it to switch |
| 12:15.30 | gregdude | SpeedEvil: i'm not trying to force to switch. I know the "tav" (timing advance) is only for the serving cell, but with 550m resolution that's not helpful in a city |
| 12:15.35 | *** join/#openmoko MrShleee (n=MrShlee@122-49-141-83.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 12:16.01 | SpeedEvil | gregdude: you know of at%EM... |
| 12:16.09 | gregdude | SpeedEvil: the Time Alignment is a parameter returned for the 6 closest cells, and I was wondering of it's meaning |
| 12:16.12 | SpeedEvil | gregdude: you get a filled table of stuff? |
| 12:16.17 | SpeedEvil | gregdude: dunno |
| 12:16.38 | gregdude | SpeedEvil: yeah, wiki's your friend, know all the codes, but not all their meaning. ;) |
| 12:16.38 | SpeedEvil | gregdude: there are leaked docs on the chipset. |
| 12:16.49 | SpeedEvil | gregdude: but not the firmware in that chipset. |
| 12:17.24 | SpeedEvil | http://www.xkcd.com/ Relevant cartoon is relevant. |
| 12:17.50 | gregdude | SpeedEvil: that is line 9 in AT%EM=2,3 |
| 12:17.58 | *** join/#openmoko ken_ (n=user@84.92.70.37) |
| 12:18.01 | gregdude | yeah, totally :)) |
| 12:18.03 | SpeedEvil | gregdude: yes - that |
| 12:18.32 | gregdude | SpeedEvil: so if you wanna find the location of a tower what would you do? |
| 12:19.04 | SpeedEvil | gregdude: I would guess that it's the offset from this stations timeclock the recieved signal of the other stations. |
| 12:19.14 | SpeedEvil | gregdude: to enable rapid switching. |
| 12:19.19 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@vpn-global-dhcp3-251.ethz.ch) |
| 12:19.24 | SpeedEvil | gregdude: however - I don't know. |
| 12:19.50 | SpeedEvil | gregdude: your problem then is you dont' know the time accurately at the other stations - so you can't do anything with the info. |
| 12:20.03 | SpeedEvil | gregdude: what might be inetersting is comparing FRs in identical locations. |
| 12:20.19 | *** join/#openmoko Shlee (n=MrShlee@122-49-160-222.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 12:20.33 | gregdude | SpeedEvil: FR? |
| 12:20.55 | SpeedEvil | FreeRunner |
| 12:21.40 | gregdude | SpeedEvil: sure :) (i got all phone codes in my head now) |
| 12:22.18 | gregdude | SpeedEvil: so phones that are connected to the same network, but with different timing? |
| 12:22.36 | SpeedEvil | gregdude: see what the commonalities are. |
| 12:23.37 | gregdude | SpeedEvil: yeah, that would show better how the network works.... |
| 12:25.02 | gregdude | SpeedEvil: if you have only one, though, how would you find the positions? Recording a lot of cellID/signal/GPS position combos, all over the place and try fit them? |
| 12:25.21 | rwhitby | gregdude: http://www.geocities.com/gsmmobilereport/gsmradiolink.htm - Time Alignment section |
| 12:26.05 | *** join/#openmoko qvantel (n=qvantel@61.16.248.242) |
| 12:26.59 | rwhitby | it allows the BTS to control the timing advance of the mobile station, ensuring that all signals from all mobile stations arrive at the BTS in the correct timeslots irrespective of the propagation delay of each mobile station |
| 12:27.32 | gregdude | rwhitby: cheers, i think i stumbled upon this one before... yeah, the timing advantage you get in AT%EM=2,1, and it can be 0-63 |
| 12:27.54 | rwhitby | yep, 63 corresponds to 35km - the max range of a GSM cell |
| 12:27.59 | *** join/#openmoko tomer (i=3e5a7b05@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e2807fb399ddfd59) |
| 12:28.22 | gregdude | rwhitby: the Time_Alignment is only listed for the neighbouring cells, and I recorded up to 4936.... |
| 12:29.25 | rwhitby | it's probably only listed for cells that have received a RACH from the phone |
| 12:29.48 | gregdude | rwhitby: the timing advantage would be useful, but in the city you have so many cells that usually none of them goes above 0 (>550m).... |
| 12:30.23 | rwhitby | yeah, only good for long distance locations, and you need to know where the towers are anyway to use it |
| 12:30.40 | *** join/#openmoko pwerken (n=pwerken@a-eskwadraat.nl) |
| 12:31.25 | gregdude | rwhitby: I was hoping that Time_Alignment is something similar too and could be used to locate the towers, but since I have no clue what the number means.... :) |
| 12:32.40 | rwhitby | I don't have my GSM physical channel specs handy, but you could probably match it up with something in there. |
| 12:33.58 | gregdude | been through almost everything i can think of on the 3GPP website (that is refefenced from the wiki) but still no luck... 05.10 should have the syncronization |
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| 12:40.53 | *** part/#openmoko charlie137 (n=charlie@firewall.tw.openmoko.org) |
| 12:45.20 | thrashold | Does the intereference from the SD slot ruin the GPS if I have an external antenna attached? |
| 12:45.39 | mjr | no |
| 12:45.47 | *** join/#openmoko jtickle (n=jtickle@ip-152010152154.ess.appstate.edu) |
| 12:45.59 | gregdude | no, it works just fine |
| 12:53.58 | beni_ | what is that qpe process on OM2008 ? |
| 12:54.04 | beni_ | it eats lots of CPU |
| 12:54.21 | beni_ | slowing down the whole phone |
| 12:55.06 | rwhitby | beni_: qtopia classifying files on your sd card |
| 12:55.20 | rwhitby | there's details on the mailing list and wiki about how to stop it |
| 12:55.25 | rwhitby | some Storage.conf file I think |
| 12:55.50 | *** join/#openmoko lsobral (n=sobral@200.184.118.132) |
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| 12:57.23 | beni_ | i just killed that rpocess *G* |
| 12:58.15 | aliases123 | hi does gprs work on 2008.9 ? |
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| 13:07.00 | beni_ | suspend/resume seems to work more reliably now on my phone. |
| 13:07.02 | beni_ | cool |
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| 13:46.15 | Daramarak | beni_: sounds great, that have been one of the major annoyances of the people on the channel |
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| 13:53.26 | beni_ | Daramarak: yes, i was very annoyed too |
| 13:53.36 | beni_ | but unfortunately i found some issues. |
| 13:53.45 | beni_ | after a few cycles i dont have SSH access anymore |
| 13:53.47 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:53.49 | *** join/#openmoko wipf (i=wipf@vpn130a.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de) |
| 13:53.59 | beni_ | currently i cannot investigate further since i have no terminal installed |
| 13:54.07 | beni_ | i try to get ssh working so i can install one |
| 13:54.18 | beni_ | but even after battery out/in i cannot log in. |
| 13:54.33 | beni_ | i get a password dialog and then the connection hangs |
| 13:55.17 | *** join/#openmoko yamitenshi (n=yamitens@82-171-112-152.ip.telfort.nl) |
| 13:55.19 | beni_ | someone knows if tangogps has a bug tracker online? |
| 13:55.52 | yamitenshi | hey, is it possible to use Qtopia apps with the FSO image? |
| 13:55.54 | CIA-22 | freesmartphone.org: 03ainulindale 07libframeworkd-glib * r7b5afc2fc30a 10/src/ (frameworkd-glib-dbus.c frameworkd-glib-dbus.h): Applied quickdev error handling patch for dbus internal errors. Thanks quickdev ! |
| 13:56.41 | yamitenshi | milestone 3 that is |
| 13:56.43 | beni_ | and now: |
| 13:56.44 | beni_ | beni@gargamel:~$ ssh moko |
| 13:56.44 | beni_ | ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.202 port 22: No route to host |
| 13:57.18 | Tig| | yamitenshi: you can install them but things like the dialer will not work |
| 13:57.36 | Tig| | because they don't know how to talk to the framework |
| 13:57.38 | bipak_ | beni_: check if the device on the host machine is still up |
| 13:57.50 | bipak_ | beni_: if you unplug the usb cable the device dissapears |
| 13:58.08 | yamitenshi | Tig|: no problem, it's just that I've recently switched to FSO, and I'm working on an IRC client for my FR written with Qtopia, and it would be a shame to see all that work go to waste :) |
| 13:58.16 | beni_ | the device comes up correctly. |
| 13:58.26 | Tig| | well that should work |
| 13:58.27 | beni_ | seems that the phone has some problem to route packages back |
| 13:58.28 | yamitenshi | besides, I just prefer developing with Qt/Qtopia over GTK+ or EWL |
| 13:58.41 | Tig| | yamitenshi: well a qt app should work |
| 13:58.48 | beni_ | i try a reboot |
| 13:58.53 | yamitenshi | beni_: you sure dropbear is running on your fr? |
| 13:59.05 | *** join/#openmoko Torikun (n=rusher@gateway.penguincomputing.com) |
| 13:59.25 | Tig| | yamitenshi: it is only things that talk to the hardware (gps accelerometers gsm etc) that need modifying |
| 13:59.39 | yamitenshi | ah, okay :) |
| 13:59.40 | *** join/#openmoko HauDyr (n=kim@knet-gip124.prod.bolignet.dk) |
| 13:59.54 | beni_ | bipak_: yes, it used to run. I cant check if it is still running, since om2008 has no terminal installed by default. Interesting is also that the battery-loading icon didnt change if i unplug the cable |
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| 14:00.14 | *** part/#openmoko Torikun (n=rusher@gateway.penguincomputing.com) |
| 14:00.15 | yamitenshi | Tig|: do you by any chance know if it's possible to cross-compile regular Qt apps somehow, or do I really need to use Qtopia? |
| 14:01.03 | Tig| | yamitenshi: you don't need to do that, you might need to install the qt libs from the feed (if they are not already installed) but then your app should just work :) |
| 14:01.29 | bipak_ | beni_: I mean the interface on your PC |
| 14:01.38 | *** join/#openmoko gcwilson (n=gcwilson@cpe-70-112-190-84.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 14:01.47 | Tig| | yamitenshi: the short cut I would use is just install the qtopia datebook or something like that and it will pull all the required qt stuff needed to make your app work :) |
| 14:02.04 | *** part/#openmoko Daramarak (n=user@138.80-203-148.nextgentel.com) |
| 14:02.23 | yamitenshi | Tig|: and how exactly does the cross-compiling process work? qmake compiles for my pc by default, so I guess I need to specify I'm cross-compiling somehow... |
| 14:02.44 | *** join/#openmoko flat_ (n=bkaplan@unaffiliated/flat) |
| 14:02.45 | yamitenshi | well, that was phrased wrong, but I think you know what I mean :P |
| 14:03.02 | yamitenshi | maybe something in the makefile generated by qmake? |
| 14:03.18 | Tig| | yamitenshi: I am afraid I don't have any cross compiling experience here, someone else might be able to help :) is there no info on the wiki? |
| 14:03.56 | yamitenshi | nope, just for Qtopia, but that's a bit of a different story |
| 14:04.05 | beni_ | bipak_: yes, the usb0 interface on my pc is up and configured. |
| 14:04.52 | bipak_ | ok |
| 14:04.57 | beni_ | ok, now i unplugged usb+battery. booted completely up. waited some minutes. connected usb. and can log in again |
| 14:05.08 | beni_ | something was hanging on the FR.... |
| 14:05.15 | bipak_ | :( |
| 14:05.46 | beni_ | sometimes the "locking" of the screen also does not work properly |
| 14:05.48 | beni_ | (aux) |
| 14:05.50 | yamitenshi | I don't think porting from Qt to Qtopia is that much work, but I have absolutely no experience with Qtopia, and it would be nice to be able to test the app on my PC and then just cross-compiling once it works without having to port it |
| 14:06.02 | beni_ | i think this is the case if the CPU is loaded heavy |
| 14:07.31 | bipak_ | i dont lock it that often |
| 14:07.44 | bipak_ | i lock it with going into suspend ;) |
| 14:08.11 | kth5 | is there anyw ay to capture input values from the touchscreen? |
| 14:08.45 | *** part/#openmoko |FiLiP| (n=filip@d5152E303.access.telenet.be) |
| 14:08.49 | *** join/#openmoko |FiLiP| (n=filip@d5152E303.access.telenet.be) |
| 14:08.50 | kth5 | i'm having issues like described above: sound when i touch somewhere but no reaction whatsoever |
| 14:08.57 | *** join/#openmoko admiral0 (n=admiral0@151.57.155.107) |
| 14:08.59 | *** join/#openmoko Shlee (n=MrShlee@122-49-160-222.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 14:09.09 | jave | anyone using xfce+matchbox on debian? how do I close an app? |
| 14:09.49 | beni_ | bipak_: i need to lock it if i do GPS stuff |
| 14:09.51 | kth5 | jave: i am but i haven't even got close to that stage :( |
| 14:10.04 | beni_ | then i lock it, let the display dim and store it in my pocket while it traces GPS routes |
| 14:10.11 | jave | kth5: how long did you get? |
| 14:10.31 | jave | I rather like it, but there are some issues |
| 14:10.34 | bipak_ | beni_: ah ok |
| 14:10.50 | jave | s/long/fat |
| 14:10.51 | kth5 | i got it to boot up but it doesn't react to any of my clicks onscreen :) |
| 14:10.53 | jave | s/long/far |
| 14:11.17 | Shlee | I've never ever got GPS working... |
| 14:11.32 | *** join/#openmoko Torikun (n=rusher@gateway.penguincomputing.com) |
| 14:11.39 | Shlee | meaning to check that out soon. |
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| 14:13.06 | beni_ | what does qpe do? |
| 14:13.13 | beni_ | what benefits does it bring? |
| 14:13.43 | *** part/#openmoko gcwilson (n=gcwilson@cpe-70-112-190-84.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 14:14.52 | beni_ | does it speed up documents loading? |
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| 14:28.25 | jmichel | A real simple question: I just installed OM2008.9 and I don't know how to shoutdown applications from the interface? |
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| 14:29.32 | viq | jmichel: top menu, in lower left part of it you will have "remove" |
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| 14:34.50 | mm | On one of my three computers, "ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200" works beautifully. The other two say "SIOCSIFADDR: No such device" and "usb0: unknown interface" What can I do? |
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| 14:36.08 | *** join/#openmoko MrShleee (n=MrShlee@219-90-243-114.ip.adam.com.au) |
| 14:36.08 | mwester | mm: install the correct kernel drivers |
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| 14:36.21 | Bill | make sure the modules are loaded correctly |
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| 14:36.28 | max_posedon | mm, just reconnect usb |
| 14:36.55 | mwester | notes that we're a very helpful bunch of folks on this channel. ;) |
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| 14:37.27 | mm | By "reconnect usb" do you mean physically reconnect the cable, or do something in software? |
| 14:37.46 | kth5 | when i use xtscal to calibrate the touchscreen all i get is: ts_calibrate: determinant is too small -- 0.000000 |
| 14:37.52 | max_posedon | mm, first one, "physically reconnect" |
| 14:37.56 | kth5 | then it goes back and starts over |
| 14:37.57 | admiral0 | mwester: hi. do you know if the echo patch(the one to add noise reducing comand) has made it to table? |
| 14:38.06 | admiral0 | *stable |
| 14:38.06 | max_posedon | I need sometimes do this. |
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| 14:38.34 | mm | Just tried that - made no difference. |
| 14:38.55 | jmichel | viq: thx |
| 14:39.26 | max_posedon | mm, then install corect kernel drivers) |
| 14:39.29 | MrShleee | The 2008.9 is giving me issues with the screen turning off (backlight atleast) and not being able to awaken the screen until its suspended... |
| 14:39.32 | MrShleee | anyone else? |
| 14:40.11 | mwester | admiral0: that patch/fix is a user-space issue; it's up to each firmware image to note when and where they added the fix (or not). :( |
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| 14:41.27 | admiral0 | mwester: maybe i'm too tired but i didn't understand |
| 14:42.21 | mm | Ran "modprobe CDCEther" "modprobe usbnet". They look OK. (Kernel is 2.4.31) But it makes no difference. |
| 14:42.24 | mwester | You asked if the echo fix is in stable -- I'm pointing out that the echo fix is not a kernel patch, and thus it is up to each firmware team to add it. |
| 14:42.44 | mwester | I don't think any of the firmware teams can claim "stable" as an attribute of any release yet. |
| 14:42.57 | admiral0 | i know ^^ |
| 14:42.59 | mwester | Certainly "stable" cannot apply to the 2008.x releases... |
| 14:43.27 | MrShleee | admiral0: Anything based on the FSO Milestone 3 or above framework will include the echo patch, the SHR will naturally use it.. the Qtopia release has it as does the 2008.8 |
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| 14:44.48 | mwester | mm: 2.4? Where'd you find that? Use "ifconfig -a" to see if the iface has some other name under 2.4 |
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| 14:45.00 | *** part/#openmoko Bruno_Kante_ (n=Bruno_Ka@i59F66A4A.versanet.de) |
| 14:45.30 | mm | ifconfig -a shows eth0, eth1 and lo |
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| 14:47.43 | mwester | Can you identify what hardware eth0 and eth1 are tied to (dmesg helps sometimes)? Could eth1 be the usb network? |
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| 14:48.11 | admiral0 | MrShleee, mwester: thanks |
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| 14:50.27 | mm | mwester, eth0 and eth1 are RealTek cards |
| 14:51.02 | mwester | Ah, ok. Then the kernel module that does the USB networking is not installed or not loaded. |
| 14:51.03 | mm | mwester, and my other computer that has the same problem is running Ubuntu with 2.6.20 |
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| 14:51.41 | mm | mwester, That should be usbnet, which is installed. How can I test it? |
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| 14:52.19 | mwester | You'll also need the cdc_ether module |
| 14:52.28 | mwester | Start by doing an "lsmod" and make sure they're loaded. |
| 14:52.37 | mm | mwester, CDCEther is installed as well. |
| 14:52.51 | mwester | (modprobe should do that, but apparently not on your system) |
| 14:53.17 | mwester | Then make sure that your neo or FR is running, and not suspended, and plug it in. |
| 14:53.35 | mwester | Check dmesg to see what happened in terms of detection. |
| 14:53.57 | mwester | Use "lsusb" to see what's on the usb bus and look for the id for the cdc_ether. |
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| 14:54.14 | mm | Yes, I have tried the FR many times. I was, at first, making the mistake of having the FR at the NOR boot menu, but now it is properly booted in Om 2008. |
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| 14:55.00 | mwester | bites his tongue so as not to make any wise cracks about "properly booted" and Om 2008 in the same sentence. |
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| 14:56.16 | mm | lsusb has a line "Bus 004 Device 004: ID 1457:5122" which is the FR. So that seems OK. |
| 14:57.00 | l403 | FR? |
| 14:57.25 | mm | FR = FreeRunner |
| 14:57.33 | l403 | ohh :) |
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| 14:58.25 | mwester | mm: what does dmesg say? |
| 14:58.27 | mm | Yes, "FR" puzzled me for a while yesterday. |
| 14:59.55 | jave | nice, now I got a titlebar in matchbox windows! |
| 14:59.59 | madwoota | font engine, read drive ? :) |
| 15:00.03 | madwoota | er, rear |
| 15:00.06 | madwoota | front |
| 15:00.06 | madwoota | ffs |
| 15:00.17 | mm | The interesting thing is that this device "is not claimed by any active driver". |
| 15:00.17 | madwoota | sigh |
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| 15:01.01 | l403 | mwester: i'd say debugmessages |
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| 15:03.31 | mwester | mm: that's the best clue so far. There's a table of USB ids built into each module, and apparently your USB id is not detected. Doublecheck if cdc_ether is listed in "lsmod" |
| 15:04.22 | beni_ | where can i fetch a current epdfview opk? |
| 15:04.45 | mm | Yes, CDCEther is mentioned in "lsmod" |
| 15:04.57 | SpeedEvil | mm: unplug, replug? |
| 15:05.46 | max_posedon | mm, hm, Does your FR now booted in linux? not just in U-boot? |
| 15:05.50 | mm | unplug, replug makes no difference, but it is mentioned in /var/log/messages |
| 15:06.16 | max_posedon | (lsusb doesn't show me any info about FR, but I can successfully ping him) |
| 15:06.28 | zogg_ | yep yep |
| 15:06.35 | mm | Yes, FR is booted in Linux, and it did connect to my third computer (an EEE) when plugged in there. |
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| 15:09.01 | l403 | so, in what cuantity are these phones produced? |
| 15:09.16 | l403 | *quantities |
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| 15:13.32 | mm | Interestingly, I now have this working on my Ubuntu 2.6.20 machine. Maybe the answer is to get around to upgrading, but I would much prefer to solve this as is. |
| 15:15.30 | RayDar | starts round two of the GPS/GPRS/NFS wars. |
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| 15:21.28 | mm | When you plug in a USB device, how does the appropriate module know to claim the device? |
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| 15:22.12 | swc|666 | alias |
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| 15:27.32 | RayDar | I bet someone could make a lot of money by selling an external charger for these batteries |
| 15:27.50 | neldoreth | hi, only want to say that i ordered the invisible shields on 16 and they arrived today, so 6 days later without any payup for the shipping |
| 15:28.11 | Tm_T | ok |
| 15:28.22 | SpeedEvil | raynet: not really. |
| 15:28.31 | neldoreth | and if anyone needs a code, i got two with my order (only one is for bernt cause he gave me onE) |
| 15:28.34 | SpeedEvil | RayDar: it's not really especially cheap to do low-volume chargers. |
| 15:28.39 | RayDar | tries to recover from yet another fully drained battery |
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| 15:37.29 | orz | where can i find some good alsamixer settings? |
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| 15:38.57 | RayDar | The only good alsamixer settings I have are on my desktop. |
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