| 00:00.23 | cesarb | don-o: yes, that one |
| 00:01.00 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 00:07.45 | *** join/#openmoko gopi (n=gopi@64.213.69.83) |
| 00:08.21 | vallor | hey, is there a skype client for openmoko, or a jvm so I can try that eqo stuff? |
| 00:08.41 | mjr | no, no |
| 00:08.47 | gmaxwell | feh.. my luck has run out.. libgsmd-tool at command mode didn't work. So I tried going back to using callout... that was unresponsive so I tried doing a echo 1 > /sys/devices/platform/gta01-pm-gsm.0/power_on and that hard locked the phone |
| 00:09.12 | mjr | (some have poked at j2me a bit, dunno what's the status on that) |
| 00:09.35 | vallor | hmm |
| 00:09.57 | gmaxwell | there is a sip client in the qtopia image I thought. |
| 00:09.59 | vallor | if this thing turned into a skype platform -- wow, carriers would hate us ;P |
| 00:10.04 | mjr | (also, skype is evil, and some work is being done on the sip side) |
| 00:10.09 | vallor | oh, k |
| 00:10.16 | gmaxwell | vallor, nah, they'd just make deals with skype to screw us equally. ;) |
| 00:10.23 | vallor | ugh |
| 00:10.32 | gmaxwell | Skype = propritary. |
| 00:10.39 | vallor | that's true |
| 00:10.55 | BryceLeo | there's always gizmo |
| 00:10.59 | vallor | sip would be better |
| 00:11.06 | vallor | what's a gizmo? |
| 00:11.08 | BryceLeo | gizmo is sip compatiable |
| 00:11.19 | BryceLeo | http://www.gizmoproject.com/ |
| 00:11.28 | gmaxwell | Skype does a lot of stuff well that many sip softphones don't... |
| 00:11.35 | gmaxwell | for example, it gets through NAT without trouble. |
| 00:11.51 | gmaxwell | Also skype has wideband support. |
| 00:12.14 | mjr | the moko sip stack will have to deal with nats, yes *shrug* |
| 00:12.29 | mjr | everything has wideband support. Well, dunno about asterisk. |
| 00:12.30 | ljp | there is voip on qtopia, but I havent tested it yet |
| 00:12.41 | cesarb | is anyone else having a "undefined reference to `webkit_init'" error in webkit-gtk, or is it just me? |
| 00:12.54 | gmaxwell | mjr, asterisk doesn't. .. and lots of softphones don't either. With skype it 'just works'. |
| 00:13.13 | SpeedEvil | Unless the network admin has banned it - for good reason. |
| 00:13.22 | gmaxwell | mjr, and yes the stack will have to deal with nat .. all sip implimentations do, but most of the time it doesn't work well. |
| 00:13.42 | mjr | doesn't really matter if it "just works", since skype isn't in the running |
| 00:13.59 | vallor | k, sorry to have brought up skype |
| 00:14.02 | gmaxwell | mjr, I'm not advocating skype. Feh. I'd be the last person to do that. :) |
| 00:14.08 | SpeedEvil | The only peope that can do skype is skype. |
| 00:14.24 | SpeedEvil | If you want skype on OM/Neo1973, go bug them. |
| 00:14.48 | gmaxwell | SpeedEvil, and I hope they do not.. god knows I don't want people nagging me to install it on my damn cell phone like they do on my desktop. |
| 00:15.01 | Robot101 | telepathy supports SIP and XMPP, and does ICE/libjingle NAT traversal for gtalk calls on XMPP |
| 00:15.12 | Robot101 | and for SIP we'll add ICE support very soon using our libnice library |
| 00:15.15 | SpeedEvil | Not to mention the annoying web-traffic |
| 00:15.17 | gmaxwell | "Sorry, it's propritary, I have an asterisk server here.. use this sofphone" "But there is a linux version of skype!" "ugh" |
| 00:15.21 | SpeedEvil | Not to mention the annoying http-traffic |
| 00:15.41 | Robot101 | so it'll be the best NAT traversal you can get... :) |
| 00:15.55 | vallor | I've seen talk that these guys can do skype, too: http://www.eqo.com/ |
| 00:15.59 | BryceLeo | ICE is better than stun? |
| 00:16.03 | Robot101 | BryceLeo: yes |
| 00:16.15 | BryceLeo | hmm, i'll have to research it |
| 00:16.16 | BryceLeo | thanks! |
| 00:16.22 | BryceLeo | i've never heard of ice before |
| 00:16.30 | Robot101 | BryceLeo: actually it uses stun, but for each pair of possible addresses on your end and the other end, and tries them all |
| 00:16.46 | BryceLeo | ohh ok, that makes sense |
| 00:17.05 | Robot101 | it sends the stun packets inline so it tests each possibility |
| 00:19.20 | BryceLeo | ok cool, that's pretty sweet |
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| 00:22.50 | gmaxwell | vallor, if they can do skype it's because they've gotten the skype folks to make a client for their platform. |
| 00:22.54 | mwester-laptop | gmaxwell: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=788 |
| 00:23.06 | mwester-laptop | (late reply to your earlier lockup on the neo... |
| 00:23.09 | mwester-laptop | ) |
| 00:23.16 | vallor | gmaxwell: they talk about running their client under jvm |
| 00:23.19 | vallor | on treos |
| 00:23.37 | vallor | at least, that's what a google brings up -- discussion about it on their forums |
| 00:23.42 | vallor | so I've emailed them :) |
| 00:24.41 | gmaxwell | mwester, Ah. gsmd just doesn't seem to work at all for me.. if I stop it and reset the gsmmodem I can usually get callout up.. atcmd mode is just unresonsive for me. |
| 00:24.57 | gmaxwell | I wonder if it's because my sim doesn't have a pin that something is getting confused? |
| 00:25.23 | mwester-laptop | methinks its time to rewrite gsmd, or implement something completely different (a la qtopia?) |
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| 00:26.11 | SpeedEvil | Where might you find that info? |
| 00:26.13 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 00:26.34 | gmaxwell | qtopia didn't seem easy to develop for.. which is why I didn't keep it beyond just taking a peek. |
| 00:27.04 | gmaxwell | but the gsm part of it certantly seemed fairly mature. |
| 00:27.29 | Writchie | mwester: an alternative to gsmd/libgsm is in the works |
| 00:27.46 | gmaxwell | what is the name of the media player? |
| 00:27.51 | mwester-laptop | I agree, I also peeked -- I don't fancy developing in C++ myself. But they can work with the GSM modem, development with openmoko has ceased it seems. :( |
| 00:27.59 | mwester-laptop | Writchie: more info? |
| 00:28.01 | gmaxwell | when I try running it it pops up an error I can't read, I wanted to invoke it from the cli |
| 00:28.30 | Writchie | i've been working on a dbus based replacement with user space mux |
| 00:28.47 | gmaxwell | mwester-laptop: I did some opie apps stuff on zaurus a while back. |
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| 00:30.05 | mwester-laptop | Writchie: let me know if I can help at all. I don't know a lot about the gsm muxing, but at this point I'm pretty familiar with the gta01's serial driver and the switch problems. |
| 00:30.06 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 00:30.54 | BryceLeo | well all i must be out, c ya! |
| 00:30.57 | *** part/#openmoko BryceLeo (i=bryce@gateway/tor/x-041fb0453699f105) |
| 00:31.26 | Writchie | mwester: i'll be able to use lots of help on various components after the basic framework for voice and data calls is in place |
| 00:32.51 | gmaxwell | oh hot damn.. it has gdb on it. |
| 00:33.40 | gmaxwell | oh without debugging symbols this is not so useful |
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| 00:42.53 | ljp | gmaxwell: how is qtopia not easy to develop for? |
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| 01:04.00 | cesarb | ljp: some people dislike c++ |
| 01:04.26 | meshuga | how can i bind the aux button to launch a script? is there an easy way to do that? |
| 01:13.12 | nbd | c++ is to c as lung cancer is to lung ;) |
| 01:15.04 | |R | haha |
| 01:15.21 | gmaxwell | ljp: I wouldn't state it as strongly as nbd, but in doing opie apps I found that I was spending my life passing around pointless (and verbosely named) abstractions and getting them all right was a pain. |
| 01:15.29 | gmaxwell | I'm sure it's easy for people who are used to it. ;) |
| 01:15.41 | gmaxwell | Then again I'd be just as happy coding with python and pygtk. ;) |
| 01:15.58 | gmaxwell | slow as heck but development is easy. ;) |
| 01:16.28 | Writchie | bad c++ is worse than bad c - good c++ can be very much better than bad c++ or even good c |
| 01:16.34 | nbd | sometimes it's a good thing to have programs optimized for fun instead of performance |
| 01:16.35 | Writchie | IMNSHO |
| 01:17.50 | Writchie | c++ is incompatible with open source that is programmed first and never really designed |
| 01:20.23 | gmaxwell | Writchie, any sufficently long lived application will eventually break its design criteria. ;) |
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| 01:21.17 | gmaxwell | the other complaint I had about the qtopia image... no terminal app that I could find. ;) |
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| 01:29.41 | cesarb | Writchie: some parts of C++ are not that incompatible; exceptions and RAII, for instance |
| 01:30.36 | cesarb | Writchie: in fact, sometimes I code in C++ instead of C solely to use exceptions and RAII (and what I throw is something I usually call "unix_exception" containing an errno value) |
| 01:30.49 | cesarb | Writchie: templates, on the other hand... |
| 01:31.19 | cesarb | gmaxwell: I heard you can use a qtopia ssh client instead; my questions as to where I can find one went unanswered so far |
| 01:33.06 | Writchie | cesarb: I agree - i've used exceptions a lot, especially on os2 which had one of first real good compilers. |
| 01:33.23 | Writchie | templates are a good concept but really unimplementable in practise |
| 01:33.45 | Writchie | i think the overuse of templates has largely kept back c++ |
| 01:34.00 | Writchie | due to library issues mainly |
| 01:35.13 | cesarb | Writchie: I think that's not the problem. I think that templates are used as a way of trying to add (in a very obscure manner) new features to the language. The result can be quite obscure |
| 01:35.37 | cesarb | Writchie: things like lambda functions (yeah, there is a lambda library in boost...) are an abuse of the template system |
| 01:35.58 | cesarb | Writchie: as are most template metaprogramming tricks (and in fact template metaprogramming itself) |
| 01:36.33 | Writchie | i could easily live without templates at all |
| 01:36.37 | cesarb | Writchie: the result ends up being like doing an object-oriented system in shell. It has been done (by someone in #debian ages ago), but you can imagine the result |
| 01:36.38 | ljp | normal users would not know what to do with a terminal app |
| 01:36.53 | ljp | and besides.. its a phone |
| 01:36.54 | Writchie | although there are application domains where they are useful |
| 01:36.56 | cesarb | Writchie: well, templates are useful for things like smart pointers and typed containers |
| 01:37.11 | cesarb | Writchie: which is what templates were designed for, in fact -- no wonder it's a natural match |
| 01:37.17 | Mek | it was fun once at a programing competition where they only had a runtime-limit, not a compile-time-limit, someone's program took hours to compile :) |
| 01:37.22 | cesarb | ljp: there's openmoko-image and openmoko-devel-image |
| 01:37.31 | cesarb | ljp: everyone here uses openmoko-devel-image |
| 01:37.42 | cesarb | ljp: but what you are presenting us with is more like openmoko-image |
| 01:37.53 | ljp | so write one |
| 01:37.53 | cesarb | ljp: meant for end-users, not for hackers |
| 01:38.01 | ljp | hackers can also ssh into |
| 01:38.03 | ljp | it |
| 01:38.06 | cesarb | ljp: I can't even get qtopia to compile :( |
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| 01:43.53 | gmaxwell | <ljp> and besides.. its a phone |
| 01:44.37 | gmaxwell | Ehhh.. There are a lot of phones on the market that are ahead of openmoko (even qtopoia) in the "It's a phone" department. |
| 01:45.19 | gmaxwell | I think it's an error to say "It's a phone, users don't need X weird feauture" when the ability to do X weird feature is what makes the product stand out. |
| 01:46.41 | ljp | a term on a phone is at most a niche use case |
| 01:46.54 | cesarb | gmaxwell: agreed, in fact the whole point of the neo is making it do weird things... |
| 01:47.19 | ljp | and anyone can write one if they want |
| 01:48.12 | gmaxwell | ljp, I'd agree the term is more niche, but a ssh client isn't.. and if the client could be pointed at localhost then all is good on both fronts. |
| 01:48.34 | ljp | ssh client is a niche use case as well |
| 01:48.48 | ljp | qtopia doesnt have a ssh client |
| 01:48.58 | ljp | but anyone could write one |
| 01:48.59 | gmaxwell | ljp, I know at least a dozen people locally that have ssh clients on their blackberries.. |
| 01:49.22 | ljp | thats fine, but it didn;t come shipped with one |
| 01:49.34 | ljp | a 3rd party wrote one |
| 01:49.44 | gmaxwell | A niche case among the general public, not a niche case among much of moko's users. |
| 01:49.57 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=fredsiba@p549531A9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:50.15 | ljp | depends on who your target is. |
| 01:50.33 | *** part/#openmoko Writchie|gone (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 01:50.38 | ljp | if OM only targets hackers, then they wont sell many |
| 01:51.15 | ljp | I dont know of one operator that would put a term on a phone |
| 01:51.37 | gmaxwell | funny, I'm not even talking about hackers with the ssh on blackberries. "Technoligy professionals" ... and it's a false comparison when you imply that including a ssh client means not targeting a broader audience that doesn't care about one. |
| 01:52.23 | ljp | ok, then why didnt the blackberry ship with an ssh client? |
| 01:52.42 | gmaxwell | of course carriers wouldn't put it on the devices, they can sell them for $10/month. :) |
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| 01:53.40 | gmaxwell | ljp, so the goal is to feature match some phones that have been on the market for years and no more? Why the heck would anyone buy one then? |
| 01:54.16 | ljp | i dont see how a term app is going to sell more to a mass market audience |
| 01:54.47 | ljp | besides, qtopia is open source.. anyone can write one if they wanted |
| 01:56.20 | *** join/#openmoko Writchie (n=writchie@195.230.118.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 01:56.21 | gmaxwell | ljp, Because trend leaders go "wow look what this has that iphone doesn't isn't that neat" ... and then they go convince other folks to buy it. It's a process that scales, but it works best if you can appeal to the as many niche interests as possible. |
| 01:56.54 | gmaxwell | Every person who is convinced to buy one based on it having easy and obvious support for their nice interest may result in a half dozen sales to more bread and butter folks. |
| 01:57.59 | ljp | but dont you think if term apps on phones meant more phones being sold, there would be term apps on phones? |
| 01:59.38 | gmaxwell | It's a bit different when you're an established force in the market. In the US, at least, the *primary* consideration people have when choosing a phone is which phones their providers offer. |
| 02:00.03 | gmaxwell | And which phones providers offer seem to increasingly have more to do with which phones they can sell additional services to more than anything else. |
| 02:01.30 | gmaxwell | I mean.. for gods sake man. Openmoko comes with a laserpointer and flashlight! And you think a ssh client is too obsecure to include in the default build that has plenty of free space on the flash? :) |
| 02:01.37 | *** join/#openmoko Pengu1n (i=7c108a38@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-f4de05fef4ae11eb) |
| 02:01.40 | Pengu1n | hi there |
| 02:02.01 | Pengu1n | openmoko/flash.sh: line 88: 24918 Terminated $qemu -mtdblock "$script_dir/$flash_base" -kernel "$script_dir/$1" -serial stdio -nographic -usb -monitor null 0<&0U-boot failed to finish writing in 300 seconds, giving up.make: *** [flash-qemu-local] Error 255 |
| 02:02.20 | Pengu1n | I got thiss error while run 'make flash-qemu-local' |
| 02:02.26 | Pengu1n | any comments? |
| 02:03.09 | cesarb | gmaxwell: ah, so THAT's what the silly pen was for! so we could use the "laserpointer and flashlight" argument! |
| 02:03.22 | cesarb | Pengu1n: try again until it works |
| 02:03.48 | Pengu1n | yes, But I'v tried many times. |
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| 02:07.12 | gmaxwell | cesarb, I wish it were a bit smaller, and that the pen part was a bit nicer.. :) oh well. heh |
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| 02:22.01 | sagacis|work | hey! |
| 02:22.56 | gmaxwell | is there some handy mailing list or webpage so I can find out about all changes to the repository? |
| 02:23.12 | sagacis_ | I'm here to verify the Ballmer peak is a very sharp curve |
| 02:23.39 | gmaxwell | sagacis, that graph is missing the other important curve: |
| 02:23.53 | gmaxwell | Percieved programming ability. |
| 02:24.00 | gmaxwell | It's a continously increasing function. |
| 02:24.07 | sagacis_ | gmaxwell: I perceive GREATNESS right now |
| 02:24.20 | kristian-m | gmaxwell oh i thought you mean coffee |
| 02:24.25 | gmaxwell | sagacis, but the damn compiler does not agree? |
| 02:24.27 | sagacis_ | gmaxwell: commitlog@lists.openmoko.org |
| 02:24.35 | sagacis_ | It's wrong. |
| 02:24.42 | sagacis_ | (the compiler) |
| 02:25.17 | sagacis_ | Is there any programmer on the planet who isn't suddenly very familiar with xkcd? |
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| 02:37.02 | cesarb | gmaxwell: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/commitlog/2007-October/thread.html and http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-commits/2007-October/thread.html |
| 02:41.21 | sagacis_ | Has anybody seen the acme foxbox? |
| 02:43.47 | gmaxwell | cesarb, thank you! |
| 02:45.58 | cesarb | gmaxwell: I also like http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/buglog/2007-October/thread.html a lot |
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| 02:55.50 | Writchie | so we can talk to neo and u-boot through vmware virtual machine running on XP but dfu-util doesn't work - device stays in runtime mode! |
| 03:00.04 | rwhitby | correct. I use an NSLU2 connected to the laptop to flash the neo :-) |
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| 03:00.57 | Writchie | i really didn't want to right a windows dfu-util from scratch but its looking like that is the only way |
| 03:13.56 | cesarb | Writchie: you could also rig up a linux live cd |
| 03:15.37 | gmaxwell | you can just boot, for example, the fedora 7 live cd and flash from that. |
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| 03:17.42 | ezekiel-v3 | or probably even a linux vm |
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| 04:52.27 | linux_galore | finding a mobile phone/pda with 3G HSDPA and can play avi/mp3 with a decent screen etc is proving painful O2 Flame is pretty close but has no HSDPA and it sux at playing media (even though it has a huge 3.6" LCD) |
| 04:53.05 | linux_galore | HTC are bringing out something later this year (Dec 2007) thats looks interesting |
| 04:53.46 | gmaxwell | life is much easier if you just decide to lag the tech by 5 years. ;) |
| 04:57.12 | linux_galore | Its funny i can get phones that have everything tech wise but they all have tiny screens and wont play media well |
| 04:57.32 | linux_galore | then you get a phone with a big screen and all the 3G love vannishes |
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| 05:00.35 | linux_galore | gmaxwell: heh, Im a gadget geek so 6 months is a life time |
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| 05:03.23 | linux_galore | Hmm HTC Athena looks pretty, due out later this year http://www.itechnews.net/2007/01/28/t-mobile-ameohtc-athena-price-announced/ |
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| 05:15.23 | linux_galore | what would be cool is a Linux mobile with a 3.6" LCD 720x480 with 3G that has good media support because there is fsk all out there right now |
| 05:16.05 | CM | linux_galore: I wonder what the HDX8 will look like |
| 05:16.49 | doc|home | what size screen does the phone which we do not mention here have? |
| 05:17.14 | linux_galore | Symbian and Microsoft Mobile both seriously suck on the emdia side and what aps they do have are next to useless |
| 05:17.21 | *** join/#openmoko cesarb (n=cesarb@ipanema.nitnet.com.br) |
| 05:17.39 | linux_galore | doc|home: thats 3.5" |
| 05:18.04 | linux_galore | doc|home: but has the same sucky media problems of all the others and no 3G let alone HSDPA |
| 05:18.08 | doc|home | yeah |
| 05:18.15 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=cb22@dsl-245-133-91.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 05:18.22 | doc|home | I wouldn't touch one of those with a ten foot pole |
| 05:18.24 | gmaxwell | Bricked phones can't play media too well. ;) |
| 05:18.29 | doc|home | heh |
| 05:18.53 | linux_galore | also the screen isnt very good resolution to play media let alone read web pages |
| 05:18.55 | doc|home | a 3.5inch screen with the neo's dpi would be nice :) |
| 05:19.21 | gmaxwell | It would need to be matched with a much beefier cpu or hardware codec support. :( |
| 05:19.51 | doc|home | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8 |
| 05:19.54 | doc|home | not too good :/ |
| 05:20.04 | doc|home | "The HXD8 features a 480x272 pixel LCD (which is a widescreen (16:9) ratio) with PWM-controlled backlight" |
| 05:20.10 | linux_galore | you can get a good Linux portable media player with a decent screen and resolution from COWON called the A2 |
| 05:20.38 | doc|home | cowon++ |
| 05:20.39 | linux_galore | plays just about everything |
| 05:20.39 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis_ (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 05:20.43 | doc|home | does it have wifi? :) |
| 05:21.39 | doc|home | hmmm, has the same resolution as the HXD8 |
| 05:21.40 | linux_galore | the Atchos 604 has wifi but it has very poor media player abilities |
| 05:21.53 | gmaxwell | Sadly the COWON does not decode theora. (even though it decodes lots of other stuff) |
| 05:22.00 | doc|home | 480 x 272 pixels, 16M color 4 inch Wide TFT-LCD presents overall operation status at your fingertip, and high-quality images anywhere, anytime. |
| 05:22.09 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 05:22.10 | doc|home | cowon doesn't? the X5 by them does |
| 05:22.22 | doc|home | same |
| 05:22.30 | gmaxwell | doc|home, hm. It *didn't* .. perhaps it does now. That would be good news that I was unaware of.... |
| 05:22.38 | doc|home | I want it as much for web browsing in the cafe as much as anything |
| 05:22.52 | cb22 | yeah, and 480x640 really rocks |
| 05:23.07 | cb22 | my ipaq is 2.8' and 240x320 |
| 05:23.13 | cb22 | gonna be fun using the neo :) |
| 05:23.18 | cb22 | 4 times the res |
| 05:23.34 | linux_galore | its annoying being a video person and you cant find a mobile and pmp all in one and its hard finding one that works well thats seperate too |
| 05:23.34 | gmaxwell | I think the screen on my phase 1 looks ver nice. |
| 05:24.04 | gmaxwell | linux_galore, back to what I said about just lagging 5 years... |
| 05:24.07 | linux_galore | yeah, 640x480 is the bottom line for me |
| 05:24.12 | cb22 | gmaxwell, does it feel 'ghosty' |
| 05:24.25 | cb22 | like if i watch videos on my psp with high motion scenes, they ghost :/ |
| 05:24.32 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508DA8C8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:24.42 | gmaxwell | Hm. lemme see |
| 05:24.44 | doc|home | linux_galore: the HXD8 will disappoint then :/ |
| 05:24.50 | doc|home | 480x272 |
| 05:24.53 | linux_galore | Ive watched stuff on the PSP the screen looks a bit faded to me |
| 05:25.30 | cb22 | yeah, like after a really quick high motion scene, the area that used to be by the object that moved is blackish |
| 05:25.35 | cb22 | ie, black trails |
| 05:25.36 | linux_galore | shame no one has got a Linux firmware update for the PSP |
| 05:25.48 | gmaxwell | I don't think the neo is ghosty.. actually my initial impression of the screen I think was by how sharp the scrolling kernel boot text looked. |
| 05:26.11 | linux_galore | the neo has a very good screen, just a bit small |
| 05:26.31 | cb22 | nice |
| 05:26.52 | linux_galore | I give the OM guys another year, with luck they kick out something nice |
| 05:27.00 | cb22 | think the gta02 will handle quake3? |
| 05:27.03 | gmaxwell | I'm nearsighted as heck so I like to use it about 5" away. ;) so the size is fine.. ;) |
| 05:27.57 | linux_galore | GTA02 is sweet but about 2 years behind on the mobile tech side |
| 05:28.26 | cb22 | not really, compared to some Win Mobile phones atleast |
| 05:28.59 | linux_galore | I can get unlocked sub $200 mobiles here in Australia now with HSDPA and 3G |
| 05:29.02 | gmaxwell | linux_galore, it's utterly bleeding edge from my perspective: I've been using a nokia 3595 (a totally unsmart phone). :0 |
| 05:30.04 | linux_galore | cb22: I notice allot of the forums still comment about the stability problems with Windows Mobile |
| 05:30.25 | linux_galore | ie especially with 3rd part media apps |
| 05:30.38 | gmaxwell | linux_galore, it's a feature.. when you want to avoid calls you can later tell people your phone had silently crashed. :) |
| 05:30.48 | linux_galore | heh |
| 05:31.18 | linux_galore | you can actually get a HTC Atom to play avi files but people complain the phones crash |
| 05:31.37 | *** join/#openmoko abraxa__ (n=abraxa@pD95FDB51.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:32.13 | linux_galore | I can understand why people like the fruit logo phones |
| 05:32.44 | linux_galore | ignoring the fact they dont actually do much |
| 05:33.06 | CM | But they're shiny! ;) |
| 05:33.59 | gmaxwell | the GTA02 will have a lot of internal flash.. boggle. |
| 05:34.19 | gmaxwell | Not enough for media storage though.. so .. are we to fill that with applications? :) |
| 05:34.41 | linux_galore | Marketing Guy "Ok I want a phone with lots of eye candy, animated icons and sliders, then remove all the buttons and to save money cripple everything so it can barely do anything other than sms" |
| 05:35.29 | gmaxwell | Well there is merit in doing a few things and doing them well. |
| 05:35.39 | linux_galore | O2 phones now come with 1G and 2G of built in storage |
| 05:36.56 | linux_galore | yeah but the big question is will the GTA02 make calls heh |
| 05:37.12 | gmaxwell | Hey, I made a dozen calls from my GTA01 today. |
| 05:37.38 | linux_galore | gmaxwell: got a sore throat huh from shouting across town |
| 05:37.59 | gmaxwell | I er.. had to ssh into the phone and kick a bunch of stuff around some.. but I did make and recieve calls with it. |
| 05:38.00 | gmaxwell | :) |
| 05:38.13 | gmaxwell | and I just recieved it. |
| 05:39.05 | linux_galore | Im not sure there is even a 3G chipset with a Linux driver to be honest |
| 05:39.09 | gmaxwell | Once I figure out how the system fits togeather I'll fix the bugs myself. ;) well.. and after I build the OE crosscompiler stuff again. |
| 05:39.30 | gmaxwell | Ah, you're an ausie sucker. ;) |
| 05:40.58 | linux_galore | next year should be interesting, whole load of full screen phones hit the market, first up is the LG VX10000 |
| 05:41.15 | linux_galore | better knows as the LG VX10K\ |
| 05:41.59 | linux_galore | looks like the fruit phone but has a QWERTY keyboard |
| 05:43.08 | linux_galore | then you have the... bugger it, lets make a better fruit phone that thinner and smaller called the Meizu M8 |
| 05:43.50 | gmaxwell | linux_galore, I dunno how anything could be as thin or thinner than the fruit phone and have a replacable battery... |
| 05:44.07 | linux_galore | gmaxwell: Meizu have done it |
| 05:44.37 | gmaxwell | ah |
| 05:44.56 | gmaxwell | linux_galore, enough fruity talk. Do you have a neo? |
| 05:45.09 | linux_galore | gmaxwell: lots of pics on the web, there is also a 16GB version |
| 05:45.20 | linux_galore | gmaxwell: when it works I will |
| 05:45.50 | gmaxwell | hehe Then this must be awfully boring for you, since there are are already a number of other working phones out there... ;) |
| 05:46.10 | linux_galore | as i said Im waiting for the OM guys to make a decent working unit |
| 05:46.42 | linux_galore | gmaxwell: not really I will purchase a phones until OM gets of the ground |
| 05:46.49 | gmaxwell | except for the fact that it didn't actually work the qtopia image seemed very close to production ready. |
| 05:47.12 | gmaxwell | I think my only issue was that it didn't correctly control the mixer.. I'll have to reinstall it and manually throb the mixer and see if that fixes it. |
| 05:47.18 | linux_galore | gmaxwell: yeah, the qtopia image video are making me drool |
| 05:47.47 | gmaxwell | Qtopia is certantly pretty.. but it felt very constrained... kinda.. just a phone. :) |
| 05:48.22 | gmaxwell | It's also somewhat obnoxious that we now have two orthorgonal software platforms to develop apps for... :( |
| 05:48.26 | linux_galore | gmaxwell: qtopia is more mature and has had a fair bit of money thrown at it, Philips use it on their IP wireless phones |
| 05:48.49 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 05:49.30 | linux_galore | gmaxwell: three if you add Poko |
| 05:49.53 | gmaxwell | Oh I know. At lest with only 10 minutes of fooling with it the qtopia image felt like it was only a dozen man hours or so of being able to toss it to my mother and say "enjoy your new phone" |
| 05:51.01 | gmaxwell | Though the openmoko image is also not too far off, it just needs to actually work right. ... or at least, work right without having to kick things around from the CLI constantly. ;) |
| 05:51.47 | linux_galore | sorry not poko I mean poky |
| 05:54.02 | linux_galore | www.pokylinux.org |
| 05:54.15 | linux_galore | GTK based but looks a bit QT'sh |
| 05:54.47 | gmaxwell | oh boy. hehe |
| 05:55.12 | linux_galore | go down a bit on that page and there are screen shots |
| 05:55.46 | linux_galore | there is a video on youtube too |
| 05:57.41 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 05:57.51 | linux_galore | now we just need to port Maemo and everyones head will explode |
| 05:58.19 | gmaxwell | I will stab you. |
| 05:58.20 | gmaxwell | stab sta |
| 05:58.21 | gmaxwell | b |
| 05:59.10 | linux_galore | heh |
| 06:01.02 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host247-227-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 06:04.52 | linux_galore | Poko 3.0 has a PIM suite http://www.pimlico-project.org/ |
| 06:05.23 | *** join/#openmoko Pengu1n (i=7c108a38@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-c44af700b4ffc7af) |
| 06:05.34 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 06:06.20 | Pengu1n | hi there. |
| 06:06.25 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 06:07.00 | Pengu1n | I final successed make qemu-flash-local with a while loop:) |
| 06:07.14 | gmaxwell | hah! |
| 06:07.25 | Pengu1n | then make run-qemu boot into openmoko, wowo, rocks |
| 06:08.08 | Pengu1n | Now, I found that there is no any applet in the top panel, where is bluez/clock and so on? |
| 06:08.18 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis_ (n=summatus@rn083002.morris.umn.edu) |
| 06:08.56 | gmaxwell | Pengu1n, ... boot in while loop. |
| 06:09.38 | gmaxwell | I'm only half kidding.. at least on my GTA01 the tray is unreliable. Removing the battery monitor from the start up fixed it however. |
| 06:11.02 | Pengu1n | How to remove it? |
| 06:11.44 | ljp | gmaxwell: have been working on mixer stuff today |
| 06:12.24 | Pengu1n | I spent more than tow weeks to build and boot the qemu :( |
| 06:14.05 | Pengu1n | gmaxwell: I got those cool applet after reboot....:) |
| 06:14.41 | gmaxwell | Pengu1n, I told you.. while loop. ;) |
| 06:14.52 | gmaxwell | Pengu1n, to make it more reliable remove the battery option from the command line in /etc/matchbox/session |
| 06:15.20 | gmaxwell | ljp, where working is defined as poking at and observing all the interesting ways it can fail to do the right thing.. sure. |
| 06:15.51 | Pengu1n | rootfs has be flashed into a jffs2 image, I could i change the session file? |
| 06:16.18 | gmaxwell | if you're booted.. ssh into it if networking works for you.. or start the terminal app and edit that way. ;) |
| 06:16.39 | Pengu1n | thx. |
| 06:21.54 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 06:24.29 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@c-71-229-150-100.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 06:29.18 | ljp | gmaxwell: no. I mean developing qtopia mixer stuff |
| 06:34.14 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@kensentme.xs4all.nl) |
| 06:37.37 | Henryk | vallor: no, skype is evil anyways, and yes, google for jalimo |
| 06:38.23 | Henryk | (answering only something like 7 hours late) |
| 06:45.08 | *** part/#openmoko _schurig (n=schurig@pD95FA8E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:47.22 | *** join/#openmoko foomil_ (n=nilsense@dslb-088-076-251-133.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 06:47.52 | *** join/#openmoko Ademan (n=dan@h-67-101-42-160.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 06:50.13 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@62.8.133.124) |
| 06:51.34 | Ademan | I noticed that libX11 is mentioned in the dependency tree, does that mean there's a full fledged x server running on the phone? |
| 06:52.55 | ljp | yes |
| 06:52.56 | Henryk | yes |
| 06:53.15 | CM | Yessss!!! ;) |
| 06:53.20 | Ademan | nooo! |
| 06:53.21 | Ademan | lol |
| 06:53.45 | Ademan | i suppose i should do a bit more research before bothering you guys, but, is it Xorg? or something else? |
| 06:54.01 | CM | xorg, using kdrive |
| 06:55.21 | *** join/#openmoko Bart_ (n=Bart@businessplayoud.xs4all.nl) |
| 06:55.29 | *** join/#openmoko jsmanrique (n=jsmanriq@cme-staticIP-212-89-8-169.telecable.es) |
| 06:57.02 | Ademan | cool, so is it likely that i could run X apps remotely? (like ssh into a box at home and run some/a gtk+ app(s)? although i suppose the screen size could be limiting) |
| 06:58.04 | Ademan | ergh, i'm sounding stupid huh... |
| 06:58.49 | Bart_ | is it a good idea to add a wiki page where ppl can sell/buy second hand GTA01's ? |
| 06:58.51 | abraxa__ | Ademan: Yup, people do it all the time for debugging purposes |
| 06:59.24 | CM | Bart_: Sure, why not? |
| 06:59.27 | abraxa__ | Ademan: SSHing into the Neo, I mean... but you can sure SSH out from the Neo as well |
| 06:59.50 | Ademan | abraxa__: yeah i was talking about ssh-ing out, i was wondering since i figure KDrive doesn't support every extension under the sun... |
| 07:00.19 | Bart_ | ok thnx CM. I am looking to buy one and my guess is that there are some unused ones |
| 07:00.21 | Ademan | although i don't really know what extensions your average gtk+ app would really require... |
| 07:01.37 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 07:01.52 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:02.17 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@202.63.103.2) |
| 07:02.40 | CM | Bart_: The only problem with pages like that is that people rarely find them. |
| 07:02.47 | CM | Searching on the wiki sucks.. |
| 07:02.57 | Bart_ | CM: so stick to eBay? |
| 07:03.10 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 07:03.27 | CM | Might be easier |
| 07:03.57 | Bart_ | ok |
| 07:04.21 | CM | Sadly there's no eBay in sweden though.. :P |
| 07:04.41 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@147.87.128.108) |
| 07:04.49 | *** join/#openmoko Esben (n=esben@87.62.18.129) |
| 07:04.57 | Bart_ | world wide eBay :) |
| 07:05.04 | zash` | CM: tradera köptes väll av ebay? |
| 07:05.52 | CM | zash`: Hmm.. Det kanske de gjorde? Har inte provat att sälja något där. Blocket har ju för stor marknad.. Svårt att bryta det |
| 07:05.59 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 07:07.45 | Bart_ | well, looks like I have to get asking around for a unused one :) |
| 07:11.17 | emdete | oups... my neo just died on switching on the gsm. anyone encountered that problem? i just did a echo 0>power_on;echo 1>power_on and it froze |
| 07:12.53 | Esben | emdete: Yes, I have seen it once. But it might have coincided with low battery conditions... |
| 07:13.10 | emdete | Esben: not here - phone is connected to usb all the time |
| 07:13.22 | Esben | ok |
| 07:13.43 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 07:13.55 | emdete | voltage is 4212... |
| 07:15.31 | emdete | has someone already tried gprs by hand already? just with CFUN=1 & PIN in /etc/chatscripts? |
| 07:16.46 | linux_galore | l8ter everyone |
| 07:16.48 | *** part/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-65-23.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 07:16.49 | tuukkah | emdete, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS |
| 07:21.43 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=fobos@213.145.101.2) |
| 07:21.59 | emdete | tuukkah: did that work for you? |
| 07:23.25 | tuukkah | emdete, i've been using various configurations, i think the wiki page documents one of the working ones |
| 07:24.22 | CM | ScaredyCat: :P |
| 07:24.38 | emdete | tuukkah: i wonder where CFUN=1 and PIN entry are... |
| 07:24.45 | CM | ScaredyCat: Good morning, how are you doing? Busy building qtopia? |
| 07:25.01 | tuukkah | this one is not the most convenient though, as it needs you to register using gsmd and openmoko-dialer, then kill gsmd |
| 07:25.14 | ScaredyCat | always building.... more building and then more... |
| 07:25.30 | ScaredyCat | did a full rebuild the other day |
| 07:25.56 | ScaredyCat | 25gb gone already |
| 07:26.03 | tuukkah | emdete, i've also got a configuration where the pppd is run on a laptop over usb, and there i have a complete script with gsm chip resets and registrations |
| 07:26.09 | CM | I've been building the full feed for a while |
| 07:26.17 | CM | Not tried to install everything though |
| 07:29.12 | *** join/#openmoko chris00_297244 (n=chris00_@pD95FF3CC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:29.15 | chris00_297244 | see my ex-girlfriend naked on: www.nackte-ex.de.gg <-my revenge |
| 07:29.25 | ScaredyCat | piss off |
| 07:29.34 | ScaredyCat | your girlfriend is a skank |
| 07:29.35 | Bart_ | gheeeez |
| 07:30.36 | zash` | there is a .gg tld? |
| 07:31.16 | CM | ScaredyCat: Hehe |
| 07:31.46 | zash` | Guernsey apparently |
| 07:31.56 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 07:32.28 | tuukkah | emdete, the registration part is TIMEOUT 10 "AT-Command Interpreter ready" ATZ OK ATE1 OK AT+CFUN=1 TIMEOUT 22 ERROR AT+CPIN=\"1234\" OK AT+COPS OK "\c" |
| 07:32.50 | CM | Wow, rich little island in the channel |
| 07:34.01 | emdete | tuukkah: okay... i include the missing here, thnx |
| 07:35.06 | ScaredyCat | what's curious is it's .de.gg - I mean in the 'I've got a shit domain' that must rate quite high |
| 07:35.50 | cjb_ie | it's to confuse non-techie germans |
| 07:36.17 | ScaredyCat | what, like the .gg becomes invisible? |
| 07:36.51 | tuukkah | hmm, co.uk vs. uk.co =) |
| 07:37.55 | cjb_ie | a friend of mine was very disappointed the other day to find that two-letter domains aren't available in .it - he wanted sh.it :) |
| 07:38.45 | *** join/#openmoko lukhas (n=lucas@rincevent.net) |
| 07:38.48 | ScaredyCat | it wold have already gone... |
| 07:38.51 | ScaredyCat | would |
| 07:38.56 | lukhas | hello |
| 07:39.11 | ScaredyCat | I looks 9 years ago when i reg'd automated.it .... |
| 07:39.20 | ScaredyCat | fuck.it had already gone then |
| 07:39.40 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@p4122-ipbf1306marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 07:40.02 | ScaredyCat | .uk.co.uk :) |
| 07:40.43 | ScaredyCat | the .it registration has to be one of the worst processes ever |
| 07:41.02 | raster | bugger.it |
| 07:41.08 | CM | Who posted yes.or.no here? That was a good one too |
| 07:41.25 | lukhas | do you know how the little icons in the top right corner (battery, gsm, wifi, etc.) are called ? |
| 07:41.48 | lukhas | 'cause it's hard searching for something when you have no idea how the application managing them is called |
| 07:43.02 | *** join/#openmoko luckybharath (n=luckybha@125.16.129.16) |
| 07:43.33 | tuukkah | lukhas, matchbox panel applets i think |
| 07:44.33 | lukhas | thanks |
| 07:44.55 | lukhas | ah yes, bug about the missing panel reported, that's it |
| 07:45.14 | raster | lukhas: they are plugins for mb panel i think |
| 07:45.19 | raster | so not applications each as such |
| 07:45.54 | lukhas | ok |
| 07:45.58 | tuukkah | although matchbox manual talks of panel applications too |
| 07:47.10 | CM | torpor: Heh, I didn't know: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=torpor |
| 07:47.35 | *** join/#openmoko giel (n=giel@twigs.okkernoot.net) |
| 07:47.37 | giel | hi! |
| 07:48.29 | giel | is this the right location to ask some questions about gsmd? |
| 07:48.59 | tuukkah | giel, i'd say so, if not on the mailing lists |
| 07:49.06 | giel | i like irc :) |
| 07:50.09 | tuukkah | same problem :-) |
| 07:50.12 | giel | anyway, i just received my neo1973 yesterday (after a long process of ordering due to company overhead) and i'm trying some stuff now... i can make calls by just issuing AT commands directly to the gsm modem, but i can't seem to get gsmd/libgsmd-tool to work |
| 07:50.39 | giel | with the 2007-08 image, according to the log, gsmd initialized the modem okay, but nothing happened when doing anything from libgsmd-tool |
| 07:51.06 | giel | i updated to the latest version from the ipkg feed, and now when i issue commands with libgsmd-tool, i see gsmd receives them and sends them to the modem, but no answer arrives |
| 07:51.28 | giel | all the initialization that happens when gsmd starts seems to results in answers from the modem, tho |
| 07:52.07 | giel | amd then after some time the modem is declared "dead" by gsmd |
| 07:52.08 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 07:52.25 | tuukkah | giel, well, gsmd usually works for me nowadays |
| 07:52.51 | CM | Yes, update to a newer image. A lot have happened since that first 2007.2 release |
| 07:53.12 | giel | CM: okay, will do |
| 07:53.14 | tuukkah | CM, that would mean a new kernel? |
| 07:53.38 | giel | i think so, i thought i could get away by just updating all gsmd/libgsmd related packages |
| 07:53.41 | tuukkah | oh, and perhaps a different ipkg feed too |
| 07:57.39 | giel | what feed do you recommend? |
| 07:57.46 | *** part/#openmoko luckybharath (n=luckybha@125.16.129.16) |
| 07:58.12 | giel | and what image, for that matter? |
| 07:59.51 | Bart_ | can i run the platform in a virtual machine? |
| 08:01.07 | mbuf | giel, i updated latest September images as mentioned here (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=915#c6), and gsmd works fine after you restart gsmd service |
| 08:01.22 | giel | okay, will try |
| 08:01.24 | giel | thanks! |
| 08:01.53 | giel | not that i need to make phone calls, but it seems nice if it works |
| 08:03.36 | *** join/#openmoko mickeyl (n=mickeyl@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 08:04.14 | zash` | is sms push or pull? |
| 08:05.30 | giel | i'd think push, but that's not based on anything :) |
| 08:06.21 | Bart_ | push |
| 08:06.23 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@kensentme.xs4all.nl) |
| 08:07.17 | *** join/#openmoko donal (n=donal@host217-46-190-241.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 08:07.45 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:08.26 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@84.90.165.129) |
| 08:11.20 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=GoD@196.205.193.120) |
| 08:13.05 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 08:20.22 | *** join/#openmoko giel__ (n=giel@twigs.okkernoot.net) |
| 08:20.57 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-56-27.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 08:21.55 | emdete | tuukkah: your expect "AT-Command Interpreter ready' won't work... do really u use it? |
| 08:22.52 | emdete | tuukkah: chat uses - for conditianal sends. |
| 08:23.22 | *** join/#openmoko xzcvczx (n=nosdr4g@gentoo/user/xzcvczx) |
| 08:23.37 | *** join/#openmoko Elessar_81 (n=Andreas@p5B05BF5F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:23.47 | tuukkah | emdete, do you mean we can't have a minus character in the expected string? |
| 08:23.55 | emdete | tuukkah: yes |
| 08:24.10 | emdete | ..and my neo died again. :/ |
| 08:24.36 | emdete | this is the third time the neo dies when tampering around with power_on and reset :/ |
| 08:25.06 | tuukkah | emdete, that's a known issue and there are workarounds |
| 08:25.27 | emdete | tuukkah: the manual of chat does not say how to escape a '-'... |
| 08:25.36 | tuukkah | do you have the latest kernel? |
| 08:26.00 | emdete | what would be the latest... one moment, i have to boot ;) |
| 08:27.02 | giel__ | hm |
| 08:27.16 | emdete | \ddd would be a solution... but what was the ascii code of - again...? |
| 08:27.17 | giel__ | i still get the same behaviour, i think as noted in the bug #915 |
| 08:27.26 | giel__ | Mon Sep 17 20:36:47 2007 <1> usock.c:97:usock_rcv_passthrough() submitting cmd=0x2e7d8, gu=0x2e8a8 |
| 08:27.29 | giel__ | Mon Sep 17 20:36:47 2007 <1> atcmd.c:545:atcmd_submit() submitting command `AT' |
| 08:27.32 | giel__ | nothing after that |
| 08:27.50 | tuukkah | emdete, that expect does work for me... |
| 08:28.05 | emdete | tuukkah: yes, as long as AT comes |
| 08:28.07 | *** join/#openmoko hisper (n=hansp@ip14.rev112.brygge.net) |
| 08:28.14 | emdete | tuukkah: if not the part behind - is send |
| 08:28.54 | tuukkah | emdete, ok so what i have works but is stupid too =) |
| 08:28.57 | emdete | see the log, mine says: got 'AT' or something, nothing like got 'AT-C....ready' |
| 08:29.23 | emdete | tuukkah: it works fine after modem reset... |
| 08:29.36 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 08:30.22 | tuukkah | emdete, yes, the registration only works after modem reset anyway, i think |
| 08:30.50 | emdete | shure. but if it is not in this state... watch the log :D |
| 08:30.58 | CM | giel__: I guess the most recent builds online are ScaredyCat's at http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ |
| 08:31.28 | tuukkah | emdete, i do believe you and the chat man page :-) |
| 08:31.36 | giel__ | CM: yes, i'm using the builds now as stated in that bug report |
| 08:31.36 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=fobos@213.145.101.2) |
| 08:31.42 | giel__ | 17 sept. |
| 08:31.52 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@81.56.231.222) |
| 08:31.56 | emdete | tuukkah: use \055 instead... works fine |
| 08:32.03 | CM | Ah, ok |
| 08:32.21 | giel__ | CM: you think trying oct 8 from scaredycat might help? |
| 08:32.39 | tuukkah | emdete, cool |
| 08:33.16 | emdete | hm, kernel is 2.6.22.5-moko11 - what is 'current'? |
| 08:33.16 | giel__ | hey |
| 08:33.21 | giel__ | after a modem reset it works |
| 08:33.44 | giel__ | oh, but not really |
| 08:33.45 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu_ (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 08:33.45 | CM | giel__: No promisies, but I'm using the Oct 02 build and it worked for me |
| 08:33.52 | giel__ | CM: ok, will try later |
| 08:34.02 | CM | :) |
| 08:34.39 | ScaredyCat | makes a change |
| 08:35.40 | tuukkah | emdete, i think that kernel version is up-to-date |
| 08:35.42 | Bart_ | looks on eBay :) |
| 08:39.38 | emdete | tuukkah: wow, works... gprs online :D |
| 08:40.53 | tuukkah | emdete, you can also use it to get a laptop online :-) |
| 08:41.26 | emdete | tuukkah: shure... my problem is how to configure everything that ssh-access does still work... |
| 08:41.40 | emdete | shutdown ppp0 on usb0 up? |
| 08:42.07 | tuukkah | i haven't seen such problems. they should be able to be up at the same time |
| 08:42.23 | hisper | hey. i have a problems compiling the last snapshot. Anyone have the same problem? http://celpaste.morb-design.com/pastebin.php?show=m6ece757d |
| 08:42.34 | emdete | tuukkah: no, because my neo is in the internet via pc if usb is up |
| 08:42.49 | tuukkah | emdete, sure, mine too |
| 08:43.03 | emdete | you will get 2 default routes.. |
| 08:43.16 | tuukkah | why does it matter? |
| 08:43.28 | emdete | ugly stuff... |
| 08:43.59 | emdete | ...and the neo does not know when to dial out |
| 08:44.20 | emdete | does it ifconfig-down the usb0 when disconnected? |
| 08:44.47 | tuukkah | i don't think so |
| 08:44.58 | emdete | see... |
| 08:45.20 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@ap164126.wlan.jku.at) |
| 08:46.13 | tuukkah | emdete, perhaps you're missing a ppp option |
| 08:46.21 | emdete | why? |
| 08:46.29 | tuukkah | replacedefaultroute |
| 08:46.57 | tuukkah | on ppp0 up, it says "replacing old default route to usb0 [192.168.0.200]" |
| 08:46.58 | emdete | yes, could do that, than the default route is lost after ppp0 down |
| 08:47.17 | tuukkah | nope. "restoring old default route to usb0 [192.168.0.200]" |
| 08:47.26 | emdete | ...and: the neo does not know when to dial in. i use 'demand' |
| 08:48.02 | *** part/#openmoko Elessar_81 (n=Andreas@p5B05BF5F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:49.39 | tuukkah | i see. so we need a way to ifup and ifdown usb0 based on whether the host computer is there |
| 08:50.31 | Henryk | yes, we need something like ifplugd |
| 08:50.37 | Henryk | or udev or something |
| 08:51.04 | tuukkah | what about use dhcp with a short lease time on the host ?-) |
| 08:53.51 | giel__ | hm |
| 08:54.04 | giel__ | like, half of the time the gsm modem doesn't reply to gsmd |
| 08:54.38 | giel__ | and this locks up the neo from time to time |
| 08:54.40 | mickeyl | yes |
| 08:54.51 | mickeyl | someone needs to rewrite gsmd to talk in a synchronized way w/ the modem |
| 08:55.15 | giel__ | i didn't manage to complete the steps to make an outgoing call |
| 08:55.16 | *** part/#openmoko hisper (n=hansp@ip14.rev112.brygge.net) |
| 08:56.46 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@80.244.212.53) |
| 08:57.39 | emdete | tuukkah: anyway - where does the neo know to dial in if a default route exists? |
| 08:58.41 | tuukkah | emdete, it doesn't know |
| 08:59.14 | tuukkah | that's why i suggested using dhcp with a short lease ;-) |
| 08:59.14 | emdete | see... some if usb0 goes down startup ppp0 would be nice |
| 08:59.19 | emdete | dhcp from pc? |
| 09:00.52 | daMaestro | yes, udev hotplug rules are cool |
| 09:01.16 | emdete | daMaestro: yes somethink like that - including bt pan... :D |
| 09:01.33 | daMaestro | +1 |
| 09:01.53 | daMaestro | i have hotplug rules for when connecting via usb.. (on the host) |
| 09:02.02 | emdete | can you show me? |
| 09:02.08 | daMaestro | sure |
| 09:02.20 | emdete | hopefully i don't loose my neo ;) |
| 09:02.49 | Henryk | on the host is actually easy and probably even documented |
| 09:04.00 | daMaestro | http://f3dora.org/paste/207 |
| 09:04.01 | Henryk | Shoragan: hmm, when trying to build openmoko-devel-image after having built linux-openmoko-devel, I get "ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for task-base: kernel-2.6.22.5-moko11 kernel-2.6.22.5-moko11 kernel-2.6.22.5-moko11 kernel-2.6.22.5-moko11" |
| 09:04.27 | daMaestro | though, i'm pretty sure the iptables rule isn't working because of default denies.. /me fixes |
| 09:04.56 | daMaestro | emdete, that is the fedora 7 script... all i added was the usb0 case |
| 09:04.57 | Shoragan | Henryk, i haven't seen that one yet... |
| 09:05.21 | Shoragan | could you try building linux-openmoko? |
| 09:05.29 | emdete | daMaestro: it's the pc/server part? |
| 09:05.39 | daMaestro | emdete, yes |
| 09:05.45 | emdete | daMaestro: and on the neo? |
| 09:06.01 | Henryk | Shoragan: was already built, trying a rebuild now |
| 09:06.04 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 09:06.04 | daMaestro | emdete, nothing needs to be done (in regards to auto networking when plugging into a host) |
| 09:06.30 | emdete | daMaestro: that was the question. i need a script that shuts down usb0 when not connected |
| 09:06.49 | Henryk | I think to remember that the old 2007.1 OpenMoko software did actually bring the usb0 down upon disconnect, but I may be hallucinating |
| 09:07.06 | daMaestro | emdete, yeah.. sorry. my comments were about host based udev rules |
| 09:07.13 | Henryk | I just tried it on the neo and udevmonitor doesn't show anything on disconnect |
| 09:07.15 | daMaestro | do we even have udev on the neo? |
| 09:07.17 | emdete | daMaestro: anyway helpful :D |
| 09:07.42 | daMaestro | hmm the dialer keeps crashing.. /me updates |
| 09:08.30 | daMaestro | oh blah.. nat is not working due to the host having a bridge.. blah |
| 09:09.43 | *** join/#openmoko hisper (n=hansp@ip14.rev112.brygge.net) |
| 09:13.55 | emdete | sad, it does no up/down with usb0 on pluging |
| 09:14.50 | emdete | does someone know where the hook is to shutdown usb0? |
| 09:15.10 | CM | On the neo or? |
| 09:15.16 | emdete | yes, on the neo |
| 09:15.41 | emdete | (goal is to use the best network connection always usb/bt/gsm) |
| 09:15.52 | tuukkah | yeah i meant running dhcp server on the host and dhcp client on the neo. when the connection isn't there, the dhcp lease will expire |
| 09:16.21 | CM | emdete: Would be cool. I haven't even bothered to get bt or usb routing via my desktop working yet... |
| 09:16.21 | emdete | tuukkah: good workaround. but the i like the plug-event better |
| 09:16.45 | tuukkah | emdete, sure :-) |
| 09:16.47 | emdete | CM: see daMaestro script... i do a similar think here for that |
| 09:17.00 | emdete | CM: and i use a udp-proxy for dns |
| 09:17.22 | emdete | CM: using webkit surfing is really fine :D |
| 09:20.36 | CM | emdete: I just had to recompile my kernel, didn't have iptables |
| 09:23.12 | emdete | CM: hm... bad |
| 09:23.38 | CM | I know, my mistake. Easy to fix though, I've just been lazy |
| 09:23.54 | emdete | :D |
| 09:24.32 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 09:25.00 | XorA | ~zap lrg |
| 09:25.01 | apt | ACTION takes out a cattle prod and gives lrg a good jolt. |
| 09:29.46 | giel__ | the communication between gsmd and the modem seems extremely flakey |
| 09:30.11 | *** join/#openmoko khaije1 (n=niklauz@unaffiliated/khaije1) |
| 09:30.27 | Henryk | Yes, I think that's probably because string processing in C is ugly as hell |
| 09:31.06 | giel__ | ... |
| 09:31.45 | *** join/#openmoko gordonsyme (n=gordon@62.231.57.138) |
| 09:31.56 | giel__ | did someone even manage to use the dialer? |
| 09:33.28 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja (n=zefanja@drsd-4db35fe3.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 09:33.59 | CM | I have, and many others too |
| 09:34.12 | giel__ | hm |
| 09:34.17 | giel__ | then i wonder what's wrong at my side |
| 09:34.37 | Henryk | Shoragan: ok, thanks, openmoko-devel-image built now |
| 09:34.46 | giel__ | i very often see commands coming in at gsmd, and gsmd submitting them to the modem, but no answer returns |
| 09:34.52 | Henryk | giel__: nothing, it's just not very deterministic |
| 09:35.04 | giel__ | Henryk: ok, but i've tried... 10 times at least |
| 09:35.11 | giel__ | one of those times a command might come through |
| 09:35.22 | giel__ | when doing it manually with libgsmd-tool the odds are much higher |
| 09:35.42 | CM | Strange |
| 09:36.09 | giel__ | time to look at gsmd source, 'cause this just sucks |
| 09:36.45 | Henryk | did I mention that C sucks at string processing yet? :-) |
| 09:37.00 | giel__ | it's doable |
| 09:37.13 | giel__ | first, i need more debugging info there |
| 09:37.25 | giel__ | i want to know what's happening and there's just not enough information |
| 09:37.34 | Henryk | giel__: yes, but then you spend most of your energy to do the string processing and not on solving your actual problem |
| 09:37.57 | giel__ | Henryk: that's just some coding effort |
| 09:38.48 | giel__ | but still i wonder what's different here that i just can't get the dialler to work |
| 09:42.09 | *** join/#openmoko GoGi (n=gogi@pippo.ipv6.gogi.tv) |
| 09:42.21 | GoGi | Does MonoMakefile _build_ a bootloader? |
| 09:42.43 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@202.63.103.2) |
| 09:42.52 | emdete | GoGi: u-boot, shure |
| 09:44.17 | CM | GoGi: But as it says everywhere, don't flash uboot unless you have a debugboard |
| 09:44.26 | CM | Especially not home-built ones :) |
| 09:44.34 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host247-227-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:45.15 | GoGi | does this MonoMakefile also build a compiler? |
| 09:45.26 | emdete | GoGi: also yes |
| 09:45.33 | emdete | if you mean mokomakefile btw |
| 09:45.41 | GoGi | ah it does everything |
| 09:45.54 | GoGi | yes, of course |
| 09:46.55 | Henryk | (the mono makefile builds a compiler, too. A C# compilere :-) |
| 09:48.03 | GoGi | :) |
| 09:53.56 | GoGi | neo1973 does have a serial port? |
| 09:54.16 | emdete | yes, usb ;) |
| 09:55.16 | GoGi | only usb? What is this serial port mentioned in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU? |
| 09:55.37 | SpeedEvil | virtual |
| 09:55.48 | emdete | GoGi: usb may emulate a serial port. neo does so when booting and switches to network after that |
| 09:55.56 | SpeedEvil | there is no physical serial port exposed outside of the case |
| 09:56.55 | tuukkah | debug board uses physical serial port for console |
| 09:57.27 | tuukkah | same /dev/ttySAC0 as the gsm chip connection |
| 09:57.31 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 09:57.40 | tuukkah | and /dev/ttySAC1 is for the gps chip connection? |
| 09:57.43 | SpeedEvil | and there are two other serial ports, used. |
| 09:57.50 | SpeedEvil | internally |
| 10:00.08 | emdete | SpeedEvil: what are those used for? |
| 10:00.30 | Henryk | one gps, the other gsm and console multiplexed |
| 10:01.03 | SpeedEvil | The other for RTS/CTS on the GPS serial port |
| 10:02.21 | emdete | SpeedEvil: oups... i'm not an hw expert but aren't RTS/CTS part of a serial port? and: doesn't gsm/console have RTS/CTS? |
| 10:02.42 | Henryk | yes, both |
| 10:04.12 | *** join/#openmoko Tronic__ (i=tronic@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe30fa00-139.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:04.37 | SpeedEvil | the third serial port can either be TX/RX only, or it can be used as RTS/CTS for the second port |
| 10:05.27 | lrg | hey XorA |
| 10:05.47 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:06.00 | SpeedEvil | Which it is in this case |
| 10:06.22 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 10:06.27 | emdete | and how about RTS/CTS for gsm/console? |
| 10:07.13 | SpeedEvil | that's built in to the first port |
| 10:07.31 | GoGi | does this mean that with a debug board I can use the serial ports which are created under qemu with -serial? |
| 10:07.32 | SpeedEvil | it's just a way of saving pins and giving more flexibility |
| 10:07.42 | SpeedEvil | not freely, no. |
| 10:07.54 | SpeedEvil | you can't use the modem if you're using the serial port |
| 10:08.52 | GoGi | I see |
| 10:09.03 | SpeedEvil | And the GPS serial port isn't exposed I think. |
| 10:13.02 | GoGi | Can the GSM chip be turned off? |
| 10:13.23 | mjr | yes |
| 10:13.27 | zash` | echo 0 > /somewhere/power something |
| 10:13.39 | *** join/#openmoko arndtroide (n=arndt@dslb-084-061-166-179.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:13.40 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 10:13.44 | SpeedEvil | you don't do that |
| 10:13.57 | GoGi | ? |
| 10:13.59 | SpeedEvil | you connect to it over serial and send at@poff |
| 10:14.08 | SpeedEvil | the chip is wired over the battery |
| 10:14.15 | SpeedEvil | it's not got a physical power switch |
| 10:14.23 | SpeedEvil | the power sysctl is simply a virtual power button. |
| 10:14.31 | Henryk | yes, in gta01 you can't power off the gsm, IIRC |
| 10:14.34 | SpeedEvil | It does a soft-reset when it goes 0-1 |
| 10:14.47 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-73-152.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 10:14.48 | GoGi | Someone told me that even if you power off a mobile found it can be activated from outside |
| 10:14.55 | GoGi | found=phone |
| 10:14.57 | SpeedEvil | not in this case. |
| 10:15.03 | SpeedEvil | It's truly off when you send at@poff |
| 10:15.09 | SpeedEvil | No current drawn. |
| 10:15.41 | Henryk | SpeedEvil: well, of course except if the modem has crashed and doesn't interpret the power-off command anymore |
| 10:16.07 | GoGi | Can the battery be removed from the phone? |
| 10:16.14 | Stephmw | GoGi: most phones have an airplane mode too - in those cases the GSM *must* be off |
| 10:16.29 | SpeedEvil | GoGi" yes |
| 10:16.32 | *** join/#openmoko lrone (n=lrone@p548F873E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:16.34 | lrone | hi |
| 10:17.00 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: man, apple really has a lot to answer for with non-removable batteries... people start believing it's the normal state of things |
| 10:17.11 | GoGi | hehe |
| 10:17.13 | SpeedEvil | There is actually a point. |
| 10:17.13 | GoGi | That's interesting with the airplane mode. |
| 10:17.22 | SpeedEvil | It makes it lots more robust if you can glue the case. |
| 10:17.42 | Stephmw | and one less type of support calls... but still |
| 10:17.51 | SpeedEvil | More rigid, ... |
| 10:18.24 | SpeedEvil | I'm not saying it's a good idea generally - at least till batteries last 3 years+ with little degradation. |
| 10:19.17 | GoGi | But I had to go into an official building of the administration (in germany) and they insisted that I remove the battery from my mobile phone before entering. Turning it off would not be enough. |
| 10:19.45 | Stephmw | that's gonna be interesting for iphone users |
| 10:19.49 | zash` | haha |
| 10:20.22 | Henryk | GoGi: http://www.bsi.de/produkte/mds/index.htm :-) |
| 10:20.32 | Stephmw | GoGi: and what stopped you from putting it back in after you're past the security check? |
| 10:20.36 | GoGi | But I was allowed to carry both the phone and the battery on me. (They were not afraid that I might turn it on). This tells me that there is a difference between power-off and battery removed |
| 10:20.45 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@145.93.88.116) |
| 10:20.48 | GoGi | Nothing. |
| 10:20.58 | Stephmw | GoGi: a fine example of security theatre |
| 10:21.13 | cjb_ie | GoGi: with battery still in, phone could accidentally turn on in your pocket? |
| 10:21.25 | Henryk | GoGi: in general there should not be a difference, but there might be one. e.g. if somebody modified your phone |
| 10:21.44 | zash` | can the pmu wakeup the phone at specific a time? for alarms and stuff? |
| 10:21.48 | *** join/#openmoko gamin (n=m@car06-3-82-240-156-91.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:22.04 | SpeedEvil | Users may not know how to fully turn their phone off. |
| 10:22.11 | SpeedEvil | zash`: yes |
| 10:22.25 | Henryk | they probably knew what they were doing because intelligence services are generally known to be able to use (and actually use) modified phones that will pretend to power-off but in reality only disable the display and remain fully functional |
| 10:23.09 | Henryk | SpeedEvil: yeah, like the iphone which doesn't really power-off most of the time and still fetches email, resulting in roaming charges for some well-published cases |
| 10:25.30 | buz | you'd notice a not turned off phone as soon as you get near speakers |
| 10:25.36 | *** join/#openmoko Cap_J_L_Picard (n=ewanm89@pool80-120.cs.rhul.ac.uk) |
| 10:26.38 | daMaestro | only with gsm, though |
| 10:26.49 | Jiten | buz: that's only with the GSM network. The sound is caused by the phone sending in small bursts (at the time slots it has been allocated) newer/other networks use other methods. |
| 10:27.20 | buz | you might still get interference though |
| 10:29.08 | Henryk | and they only send occassionally. and speakers don't suffice, normally you'd have to have a powered amp. |
| 10:32.11 | zash` | i cant find documentation stating exactly what happens on recival of sms |
| 10:32.32 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-56-27.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 10:32.40 | SpeedEvil | in what sense? |
| 10:33.21 | zash` | i assume the networks tells the phone in some way |
| 10:34.21 | *** join/#openmoko Lunpa (n=lunpa@rch85-2-88-163-221-31.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:35.47 | SpeedEvil | yes, it does. |
| 10:36.26 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it, it's sent asynchronously to the phone. |
| 10:36.38 | SpeedEvil | the phone can say 'I have no memory left' |
| 10:36.50 | SpeedEvil | it's automatically stored in the SIM memory till it's deletecd. |
| 10:37.33 | SpeedEvil | the modem can be configured to tell when it's got an SMS |
| 10:37.37 | *** join/#openmoko linuxper1 (i=misterb@66.241.137.35) |
| 10:42.52 | *** join/#openmoko fix (n=fix@86.39.154.74) |
| 10:51.23 | giel__ | is monotone.openembedded.org down? |
| 10:53.47 | CM | giel__: I'm synching right now, works fine |
| 10:54.00 | giel__ | bah |
| 10:54.07 | giel__ | then it's my stupid coporate network |
| 10:54.10 | giel__ | always fucks up everything |
| 10:54.12 | giel__ | CM: thanks |
| 11:07.06 | giel__ | ah! |
| 11:07.09 | giel__ | ssh -D ftw! |
| 11:07.14 | giel__ | instasocks! |
| 11:07.17 | CM | Hehe |
| 11:08.17 | *** part/#openmoko hisper (n=hansp@ip14.rev112.brygge.net) |
| 11:08.23 | giel__ | corporate IT was fucking with my network access, but with ssh and tsocks i just tunnel everything now |
| 11:08.28 | giel__ | much easier than ppp over ssh |
| 11:11.45 | CM | Wohoo!! root@fic-gta01:~$ ping www.google.com 64 bytes from 64.233.183.147: icmp_seq=0 ttl=239 time=32.5 ms |
| 11:12.56 | CM | ScaredyCat: I'm a real iptables newbie.. :P |
| 11:13.11 | Henryk | root@fic-gta01:~$ ping www.heise.de PING www.heise.de (193.99.144.85): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 193.99.144.85: icmp_seq=0 ttl=247 time=23.3 ms |
| 11:14.33 | ScaredyCat | ping localhost PING localhost (127.0.0.1) 56(84) bytes of data.64 bytes from localhost (127.0.0.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.026 ms |
| 11:14.33 | CM | ScaredyCat: I've seen that one, but I had to try with dnsmasq and iptables |
| 11:15.13 | CM | ScaredyCat: That's fast |
| 11:15.18 | CM | :P |
| 11:15.28 | ScaredyCat | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Mobile_development |
| 11:16.40 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-138-133.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:17.29 | gamin | Just got my neo delivered, coming without rootfs and kernel. dfu-util can see it. Thus: which kernel and rootfs should I flash? |
| 11:18.06 | gamin | There is quite a choice in http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D |
| 11:26.46 | ScaredyCat | CM uses the 8th mehtinks |
| 11:26.53 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 11:28.46 | CM | No, I'm still on 2:nd, but I've built one today |
| 11:31.29 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__27 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-88c1f0e51cc81161) |
| 11:31.44 | Henryk | oh, and of course "64 bytes from 193.99.144.85: icmp_seq=0 ttl=247 time=41.7 ms [...] root@fic-gta01:~$ route -n [...] 0.0.0.0 10.0.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 bnep0" |
| 11:34.26 | CM | Henryk: I'm trying to get the bluetooth pan working now :) |
| 11:34.47 | SpeedEvil | 'Help, I'm burning'. |
| 11:35.39 | ScaredyCat | more like: Error pairing with pan, eggs not a known type |
| 11:35.49 | Henryk | on the Neo bring up bluetooth and do pand --search -d NAP -p5 --devup /etc/bluetooth/pan/dev-up and in /etc/bluetooth/pan/dev-up put a shell script (e.g. starts with #!/bin/sh) that does udhcpc -i $1 |
| 11:36.47 | Henryk | on the host do pand -s -r NAP -A -E -S (well, maybe you can do without the A, E and S if you don't want to have security) and set the host up to bring up bnep0 automatically (distribution specific) and start a dhcp server on it |
| 11:38.16 | Henryk | (alternatively let /etc/bluetooth/pan/dev-up set up the bnep0 device manually, e.g. ifconfig $1 10.0.0.202 255.255.255.0 up and route add default gw 10.0.0.200 or something like that and don't use dhcp) |
| 11:38.16 | *** part/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 11:38.53 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 11:39.03 | *** part/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 11:40.51 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 11:41.52 | CM | Henryk: Thanks, that helped. (I'm using dnsmasq and iptables on gentoo) |
| 11:42.52 | *** join/#openmoko grma (n=gruberm@212.186.13.45) |
| 11:44.16 | Henryk | CM: yeah, i have a dnsmasq debian setup at the university. on my private laptop i couldn't use dnsmasq because I already run a djbdns for my own needs. and the isc dhcpd is pretty bitchy about requiring the interface to be already up and configured when starting. I have for that purpose set up a bridge interface that I dynamically add the bnep interfaces too. should probably document that in the wiki |
| 11:44.44 | GoGi | what filesystem does the openmoko root image use? |
| 11:44.52 | CM | jffs2 |
| 11:45.28 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-138-133.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:48.40 | GoGi | does mainline linux also support jffs2? |
| 11:49.01 | *** join/#openmoko Ebbedc (n=ebbe@wireless.sdu.dk) |
| 11:49.24 | GoGi | there is a directory called jffs2 but I can't find the entry in menuconfig |
| 11:49.46 | zash` | "JFFS2 has been included in the Linux kernel since the 2.4.10 release." -wikipedia |
| 11:51.09 | Ebbedc | Do anyone know the status of the open GPS driver? And if I can get the gllin driver for temporary use of the GPS? |
| 11:52.39 | Henryk | the problem with jffs2 if i remember correctly is that it can only be used on flash devices |
| 11:53.18 | *** join/#openmoko lostgeek (n=aschenba@xdsl-87-78-254-174.netcologne.de) |
| 11:53.59 | CM | Henryk: I think some guy said he managed to mount the rootfs on a loopback. |
| 11:54.27 | CM | But the problem is that it's so slow to mount. Linearly slower in respect to size iirc |
| 11:54.28 | Henryk | yes, there was some way |
| 11:55.03 | CM | Ebbedc: The status is bad.. the old oabi gllin works in a chroot, but there's still no working eabi blob |
| 11:56.10 | Henryk | see here: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ModifyingRootImage |
| 11:57.29 | Ebbedc | CM: Is there then a place I can get that old gllin? |
| 11:58.09 | CM | It's not allowed to be distrbuted any more |
| 11:58.59 | Henryk | never was :) |
| 11:59.20 | CM | Well, it was on some of the phones from the start |
| 12:01.03 | Ebbedc | Any ETA for the open driver? |
| 12:01.31 | CM | None yet.. |
| 12:01.45 | CM | mickeyl had a eabi version, but it didn't work at all |
| 12:01.47 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 12:02.50 | Henryk | yeah, the eabi just segfaults for me, so I'm using the oabi in chroot |
| 12:03.02 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-138-133.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:03.14 | mickeyl | it could be a dozen reasons *sigh* |
| 12:03.25 | *** join/#openmoko kumpera (n=rodrigo@c91520b2.virtua.com.br) |
| 12:04.34 | *** join/#openmoko Maledictus (n=Malebob@f049003205.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:05.26 | CM | It's really a shame.. The gps was one of my main reasons for getting the GTA01 in the first place |
| 12:05.54 | Ebbedc | Yeah, mine too |
| 12:05.59 | mickeyl | yes, i hate the situation as well |
| 12:06.27 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@66.37.59.194.nauticom.net) |
| 12:06.27 | CM | mickeyl: We know it's not your fault and that you're doing all you can, don't feel blamed. :) |
| 12:06.35 | gamin | where is the oabi driver available from? |
| 12:07.03 | CM | They are not allowed to be distributed |
| 12:07.12 | mickeyl | bbiab, oedem-lunch |
| 12:07.13 | CM | Or it, rather.. |
| 12:08.45 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime__ (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 12:11.40 | *** join/#openmoko mstevens (n=mstevens@saigo.etla.org) |
| 12:11.48 | mstevens | wheee! |
| 12:11.51 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 12:12.18 | mstevens | I just got my phone! |
| 12:13.01 | gamin | mstevens: I did too two hours ago |
| 12:13.12 | mstevens | gamin: I'm just trying to work out what to flash to get it to boot |
| 12:13.30 | gamin | been there, done that already ;-) |
| 12:14.01 | gamin | http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01.jffs2 |
| 12:14.17 | gamin | and http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11+svnr2937-r3-fic-gta01.bin |
| 12:14.41 | gamin | worked for me, though I haven't yet made / tried to make a call |
| 12:15.43 | mstevens | it's pretty though |
| 12:15.53 | gamin | yes indeed. |
| 12:16.07 | gamin | the ear plugs are very shaby |
| 12:16.52 | gamin | that stuff costs 15cents in production. they shoud have gone at least for something that costs 50 cents. - no kidding |
| 12:16.59 | mstevens | does that image, in theory, have dialer? |
| 12:17.07 | gamin | mstevens: yes |
| 12:17.14 | mstevens | I'm not big in headsets anyway so |
| 12:17.16 | Kero | why does MokoMakefile include psplash when I remove it from (all...) bitbake RDEPENDS entries? |
| 12:17.31 | mstevens | I already had my spare SIM ready |
| 12:17.52 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-98-199-135-173.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 12:18.08 | sagacis_ | Yay! Mickey's back. |
| 12:22.13 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.72) |
| 12:23.09 | mstevens | yay it's flashing |
| 12:25.15 | Kero | oh, ran into the(?) webkit bug. Interestingly, earlier updates (after other people reported it) did not. |
| 12:25.55 | CM | Kero: Which bug this time? |
| 12:26.10 | CM | With icu or qmake2? |
| 12:27.04 | Kero | um. webkit itself... ??? |
| 12:27.08 | Kero | that's new :) |
| 12:27.33 | CM | Have a paste? Does it fail in main? |
| 12:27.43 | Kero | yeah main.cpp |
| 12:27.49 | Kero | linking time |
| 12:27.52 | CM | Ok, then do bitbake -c rebuild qmake2-native icu; bitbake -c rebuild webkit-gtk |
| 12:28.02 | CM | That got me past it |
| 12:28.24 | CM | first cd build; source ../setup-env |
| 12:28.50 | Kero | was gonna try the full mokomakefile update cycle, but this sounds easier :) |
| 12:29.05 | CM | Heh, I promise it's faster |
| 12:30.37 | Kero | how is icu involved? is that not an IM protocol/program/whatever ?> |
| 12:31.46 | *** join/#openmoko Maledictus (n=Malebob@f049003205.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:34.54 | CM | Kero: It's for i18n stuff |
| 12:35.43 | CM | mstevens: THe rootfs is a bit slow to flash, but the kernel is quicker :) |
| 12:35.56 | mstevens | CM: kernel done, waiting for rootfs |
| 12:38.34 | Kero | CM: ok. build still takes ages... just these 3 little packages? |
| 12:38.49 | CM | Webkit takes about 1h for me |
| 12:39.03 | CM | amd64 3000+ with 1gb ram |
| 12:39.13 | CM | c++ sucks |
| 12:39.20 | Kero | crap |
| 12:39.41 | Kero | 1.8 GHz Dual core laptop 1GB RAM |
| 12:40.06 | Kero | it's churning, but I really would not have expected to waste so much time. |
| 12:40.21 | Kero | 'coz the only thing I really want is #$%^&*( psplash off my images. |
| 12:40.42 | Kero | so I can figure out why neither X nor dropbear works. |
| 12:40.54 | Kero | (unless those are fixed by now) |
| 12:41.11 | CM | Oh, weird. I hope they replace dropbear with openssh anyway |
| 12:43.19 | giel__ | argh, why does it work for everyone but me :) |
| 12:43.27 | mstevens | Mine won't register with the network |
| 12:43.38 | giel__ | okay, then i'm not the only one |
| 12:43.39 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242354404.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 12:43.48 | gmaxwell | I made a couple of calls yesturday. |
| 12:43.59 | giel__ | i can only make calls with libgsmd-tool |
| 12:44.11 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1242354404.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 12:44.12 | giel__ | the commands the dialer sends to gsmd don't get sent to the modem, somehow |
| 12:44.13 | gmaxwell | But I had to do it by manually throbbing the hardware with the callout command. |
| 12:44.24 | gmaxwell | gsmd is borked for me. |
| 12:44.28 | giel__ | yes. |
| 12:44.31 | mstevens | how do I scroll in the apps list? |
| 12:44.42 | giel__ | think 'iphone' :) |
| 12:44.46 | gmaxwell | giel__, libgsmd-tool doesn't even work for me.. |
| 12:45.02 | giel__ | i'm building environment right now to debug gsmd |
| 12:45.02 | Kero | CM: wouldn't bet on that. whole openssl dep for openssh is relatively big. |
| 12:45.06 | giel__ | i'm too annoyed by this |
| 12:45.09 | giel__ | this has to be fixed. |
| 12:45.23 | mstevens | aha! a terminal |
| 12:46.44 | SpeedEvil | Anyone happen to know if I can get strace to output fill filenames instead of file handles? |
| 12:47.04 | SpeedEvil | Of course it'll only work if the process is traced from the beginning |
| 12:47.21 | gmaxwell | SpeedEvil, I didn't know it could.. I just look for the open calls... |
| 12:47.39 | giel__ | hm, and the media player doesn't work |
| 12:48.41 | gmaxwell | giel__, if you run the mediaplayer under gdb you can see the error that it pops up before crashing. |
| 12:48.54 | ScaredyCat | Kero: ipkg remove psplash -force-depends |
| 12:48.56 | gmaxwell | The error is some complaint about pulseaudio. |
| 12:49.12 | SpeedEvil | gmaxwell: i've got an annoying program that does lots of link and chdir calls, and relative paths... |
| 12:49.19 | SpeedEvil | Oh well. |
| 12:49.58 | giel__ | gmaxwell: ah ok |
| 12:50.57 | CM | Kero: rwhitby said they changed from dropbear to openssh on nslu2, that that's only 8 or 16 mb ramdisk total |
| 12:51.22 | CM | Kero: On the nslu2 that is. openssh was faster too |
| 12:51.23 | Kero | ScaredyCat: can't get into the Neo |
| 12:52.02 | Kero | CM: "relatively" with uSD card I do not particularly care either. |
| 12:52.05 | ScaredyCat | meh |
| 12:56.40 | ScaredyCat | yoink! |
| 12:56.52 | ScaredyCat | good holiday mickeyl? |
| 12:57.27 | ScaredyCat | mickey|portugal: still ? |
| 12:58.14 | mstevens | hmm, can't connect to GSM modem or kill cu |
| 12:58.17 | Kero | CM: compiled! half an hour :) |
| 12:58.30 | CM | Kero: Core2Duo bastard.. :P |
| 12:58.46 | Henryk | Kero: hmm, I think you might have to rebuild some of the task-* packages when changing some depends. Oh, and look for RECOMMENDS too. Still, I don't know this stuff very well |
| 12:58.53 | mickeyl | ScaredyCat: no, i came back sunday night and immediately departed to Berlin where i'm atm. |
| 12:58.56 | mickeyl | for OEDEM07 |
| 12:59.18 | Kero | CM: not sure it used both cores for webki all the time (low CPU speeds listed on my monitors) |
| 13:00.07 | ScaredyCat | ahhh.. |
| 13:00.19 | Kero | Henryk: I would guess task-openmoko in my case. problem is, I messed that up, not knowing how to run bitbake |
| 13:00.35 | mickeyl | and it looks like i'm being dragged to Taipei soon :/ |
| 13:00.41 | Kero | | Cannot find package task-openmoko-linux. |
| 13:01.18 | Kero | there we go still fscked |
| 13:01.18 | gmaxwell | mstevens, I have that happen sometimes. I think gsmd blows the modem's mind or something. |
| 13:01.18 | Henryk | Kero: yeah, we discussed that at OEDEM :) the elitists response is "don't use MokoMakefile" |
| 13:01.32 | ScaredyCat | mickeyl: supposed to be stormy there atm |
| 13:01.47 | Kero | Henryk: do I have a choice? :) |
| 13:01.55 | nbd | if we're not supposed to use mokomakefile, then you guys should make something that's equally easy to use :P |
| 13:02.06 | Henryk | Kero: it's openembedded, so use bitbake |
| 13:02.19 | ScaredyCat | but then they couldn't be elitest... |
| 13:02.32 | mstevens | what value do I need for the ... in AT+CPIN? |
| 13:02.48 | giel__ | your pincode |
| 13:02.49 | giel__ | of the sim |
| 13:02.50 | giel__ | :) |
| 13:03.16 | Kero | Henryk: I looked up bitbake docs earlier today. Had to ask in #oe what "RDEPENDS" stands for. |
| 13:03.34 | nbd | imho something needs to be done about the steep learning curve of openembedded. i'm annoyed with the system every time i try to use it. but maybe that's also because i haven't had one single compile that went through without errors |
| 13:03.43 | Henryk | AT+CPIN="..." where ... is your PIN in ASCII (eg. 1234) |
| 13:03.44 | ScaredyCat | Kero: if you've used mokomakefile then: cd build && . ../setup-env && bitbake -crebuild a-package |
| 13:03.48 | gmaxwell | mstevens, if you don't have a pin you don't need to do that step. |
| 13:04.14 | Henryk | Kero: I saw that. We also had the "some users don't know the difference between DEPENDS and RDEPENDS" at OEDEM :) |
| 13:04.43 | Kero | Henryk: BUILD_DEPS and RUN_DEPS would have made things clearer :) |
| 13:04.47 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 13:04.52 | gmaxwell | mstevens, .. I don't have a pin ... and I think you and I saw the same behavior from gsmd.. so perhaps thats related to it not working.. (presuming it works for anyone) |
| 13:05.09 | ScaredyCat | did you also have "STFU you elitest fucks, if you actually wrote some proper docs we'd use it" |
| 13:05.19 | Henryk | ScaredyCat: you even don't need that: MokoMakefile has clean-package-% and rebuild-package-% |
| 13:05.22 | ScaredyCat | or was that just me |
| 13:05.23 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 13:05.53 | Henryk | ScaredyCat: yes, the missing documentation problem was touched upon |
| 13:05.57 | ScaredyCat | I only used mokomakefile to build the env ... now I just bitbake stuff |
| 13:05.59 | GoGi | why does the mokomakefile start qemu with -kernel xxx.bin? Is the kernel not included in the flash image? |
| 13:06.12 | ScaredyCat | Henryk: good... |
| 13:06.27 | gmaxwell | gogi the kernel is in the kernel image... |
| 13:06.39 | GoGi | gmaxwell: and where is it put on the real hardware? |
| 13:06.42 | ScaredyCat | the number of times I've thought 'I'll RTFM on this one' only to find "this bit not written yet" |
| 13:06.42 | giel__ | gmaxwell: i have a pin and it does not work |
| 13:06.43 | mstevens | progress. I can talk to the modem. "AT+COPS=?" says CME Error: 3, and dialing says "No carrier" and a CPI error |
| 13:06.52 | Henryk | see http://www.openembedded.org/oedem2007.minutes |
| 13:07.36 | gmaxwell | gogi the flash is 'partitioned' when you upload it you use the -a option ot dfu-util. |
| 13:07.52 | Henryk | CME Error 3 is "operation not allowed" |
| 13:07.56 | gmaxwell | to specify 'kernel' for the kernel image.. rootfs for the flash. |
| 13:08.02 | GoGi | yes, but when I use qemu the complete flash is stored in one file is it not? |
| 13:08.24 | Kero | Henryk: I don't know what it is. bitbake, monotone... unfamiliarity with about everything, even though I've worked with "familiar". |
| 13:09.14 | Kero | amazing, I have a new image ! :) |
| 13:09.22 | Henryk | mstevens: are you using cu or gsmd+libgsmd-tool? |
| 13:09.33 | Henryk | (the latter is the preferred) |
| 13:09.57 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 13:10.02 | mstevens | Henryk: cu |
| 13:10.38 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:10.50 | gmaxwell | Henryk, I've never been able to make libgsmd-tool do anything for me.. and I'm using the latest from the builder system. |
| 13:11.01 | gmaxwell | Henryk, yet I can call fine from cu. |
| 13:11.06 | Henryk | gmaxwell: be more specific |
| 13:11.26 | Henryk | libgsmd-tool works just fine, just make sure that gsmd is still running. (It hat a habit of dying, but things got better) |
| 13:11.40 | gmaxwell | Henryk, In AT command mode, for example, libgsmd-tool never responds to any input. |
| 13:11.47 | Kero | also, why do I have to run "bitbake -c rebuild task-openmoko" by hand? Is MokoMakefile keeping a timestamp it shouldn't? I did my best to break the package rather thoroughly (by hand). |
| 13:11.52 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@2001:4830:1633:0:212:3fff:fe70:6222) |
| 13:12.01 | gmaxwell | Henryk, gsmd was running and of course I've tried restarting gsmd.. |
| 13:12.07 | mstevens | yay segfault |
| 13:12.23 | Henryk | gmaxwell: yes it does, it might just take a while. try to use screen or open a second shell to run tail -f /tmp/gsm.log in |
| 13:12.33 | Kero | and what timing issues get `make flash-qemu-local` to fail about half of the times? |
| 13:13.03 | gmaxwell | ah. I was unaware of that. Hm. Why does it take a while? cu "just works" |
| 13:13.06 | giel__ | gmaxwell: which image are you running exactly? i had that with an older one |
| 13:13.07 | *** join/#openmoko Elrond (i=[XUTXEQo@irc.fem.tu-ilmenau.de) |
| 13:13.10 | Henryk | Kero: MokoMakefile is no knowing anything about the bitbake timestamps. it does keep some own stamps, but they are mostly only used to make sure something is built at all |
| 13:13.44 | Henryk | gmaxwell: well, for AT+COPS=? for example the modem takes time to gather the list |
| 13:13.57 | giel__ | Henryk: but for "AT" it doesn't |
| 13:14.12 | Henryk | giel__: probably it already cached the result then |
| 13:14.19 | giel__ | Henryk: AT just says OK |
| 13:14.27 | giel__ | that should work instantly, always. |
| 13:14.34 | Henryk | ah, AT, yes sure |
| 13:14.40 | gmaxwell | Henryk, right, okay.. but why, many minutes after starting will it not respond to AT? |
| 13:14.46 | mstevens | looking at the gsm.log file, I can see lots of "submitting command" but nothing else |
| 13:14.53 | giel__ | yes, i have that as well |
| 13:15.07 | Henryk | mstevens: then it might have died and not knowing that yet. |
| 13:15.22 | giel__ | when i stop gsmd, reset the modem, start gsmd, then libgsmd-tool works most of the time |
| 13:15.26 | giel__ | the dialer does not, however |
| 13:15.36 | Henryk | gsmd will try to 'ping' the modem every 5 minutes or so (by just issuing AT) and then exit when it's dead |
| 13:15.42 | giel__ | commands from the dialer are submitted by gsmd, but never answered |
| 13:15.44 | gmaxwell | also.. when gsmd has not been responding for me, cu doesn't work either until I rest the modem in some cases. |
| 13:15.54 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@85-211-143-106.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 13:15.57 | Henryk | giel__: you need to restart the dialer (best restart the whole x session) after restarting gsmd |
| 13:16.03 | mstevens | timer expired, modem dead... |
| 13:16.03 | giel__ | Henryk: tried that |
| 13:16.05 | gmaxwell | giel__, I made one outbound call with the dialer once! :) |
| 13:16.37 | giel__ | Henryk: i can see the dialer commands ending up in gsmd, but no answer from the modem, ever. |
| 13:16.49 | Kero | Henryk: either way, I do not know enough about mokomakefile, bitbake or any other tool to patch it; neither do I feel the incentive to spend effort to learn that much. Nothing technically challenging, just another system. |
| 13:16.51 | Henryk | yes, the modem is flaky, and no, you can't actually reset it. (the "reset" sysfs file does nothing, and the "power_on" file is actually a soft power on and off |
| 13:17.08 | Kero | I want it to "just work" (TM) |
| 13:17.15 | giel__ | Kero: wrong product :P |
| 13:17.15 | Henryk | Kero: that's more or less perfectly fine. Just lean back and wait |
| 13:17.16 | gmaxwell | fooling with power_on has locked my moko a couple of times. |
| 13:17.31 | Henryk | gmaxwell: that was a wholly different story :) |
| 13:18.08 | gmaxwell | Henryk, what it seems to me is that gsmd manages to send the modem out to lunch.. but I can use cu all evening and not cause problems. |
| 13:19.48 | Kero | Henryk: it's not fine. I want to work on the things that come *after* the build system and a properly functioning (lib)gsmd. I seriously expected these basic blocks to be working by now. |
| 13:20.09 | Henryk | gmaxwell: there is a (as far as I know) not completely diagnosed problem that happens when disabling the modem. that will then reenable the serial console on the same port and something locks the kernel up. a good workaround is to disable the console in the uboot env kernel commandline |
| 13:20.40 | Henryk | Kero: the build system works well. Just ignore gsm for now |
| 13:22.04 | Henryk | anyway, I got to shift my attention away now, I'm still at OEDEM |
| 13:23.30 | rwhitby | Henryk: say hello to the "elitists" from me (make sure there's a smiley on there) :-) |
| 13:24.22 | giel__ | wow |
| 13:24.49 | giel__ | now the matchbox-panel shows a signal strength while the dialer doesn't even know the gsm registered |
| 13:25.11 | giel__ | and if i just kill the dialer it gets defunct and won't go away |
| 13:26.01 | *** join/#openmoko mbuf (n=mbuf@202.63.103.2) |
| 13:26.09 | Kero | psplash gone... |
| 13:26.14 | *** part/#openmoko Ralph (i=root@82.150.203.3) |
| 13:26.18 | Henryk | giel__: the only reliable source of "is it registered" information is /tmp/gsm.log. Also make sure to use a dialer that's newer than 2 weeks |
| 13:26.34 | giel__ | yeah, got latest ScaredyCat image |
| 13:26.39 | giel__ | waiting for my own build |
| 13:27.06 | giel__ | still, it works extremely unreliable, like once every 20 times |
| 13:27.54 | mstevens | what's the best source for recent builds? |
| 13:27.59 | gmaxwell | even on the latest bleeding edge stuff the splash says 'august snapshot' ... and the file names of the images say 'september snapshot' |
| 13:28.32 | Henryk | yes, nobody bothered to change the file names :) or actually official openmoko hasn't put out a snapshot since then |
| 13:28.37 | Kero | wow, I even get a login prompt in qemu! *now* I can debug! |
| 13:28.41 | GoGi | do the "partitions" on the flash have a fixed size each? |
| 13:28.47 | mbuf | gmaxwell, true |
| 13:29.57 | Henryk | GoGi: somewhat, yes. they actually vary slightly due to the possibility of bad blocks |
| 13:30.16 | Kero | pft! dropbear just fell out of /etc/rc*.d, no wonder I couldn't connect. |
| 13:30.23 | Henryk | see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NAND_bad_blocks#Partition_Table |
| 13:30.38 | GoGi | Henryk: can the size be changed? Where is the partition table stored |
| 13:30.39 | GoGi | ? |
| 13:30.49 | Henryk | GoGi: why would you want to do that? |
| 13:31.15 | GoGi | Henryk: just curious |
| 13:31.49 | Henryk | »Those calculations have been implemented as u-boot "dynpart" command. Once you issue "dynpart", the partition configuration is put in the "mtdparts" environment variable. If you "saveenv" the environment, it is saved into the non-volatile environment partition.« |
| 13:34.51 | GoGi | so the flash tool actually reads the u-boot environment? |
| 13:35.57 | Henryk | uboot does the flashing |
| 13:36.22 | Henryk | uboot provides DFU which knows about alternate settings that are mapped to the different partitions |
| 13:36.40 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@208.118.160.90) |
| 13:39.09 | Kero | where do I file a bug on dropbear missing its rc*.d links? OM? OE? |
| 13:40.20 | SpeedEvil | Oops - nokias open phone. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/08/nokia_n81_snub/ |
| 13:40.38 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:41.33 | SpeedEvil | Well - open in the sense of offering nokia services. |
| 13:41.56 | *** part/#openmoko santaclaus (n=fobos@213.145.101.2) |
| 13:42.09 | XorA | SpeedEvil: its well known you can only have an Open system if you have Nokia controlling it |
| 13:43.04 | SpeedEvil | I mean - it's an indication as to how keen they might be to launch a truly open phone. |
| 13:43.27 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@lns-bzn-49f-81-56-215-221.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 13:44.39 | *** part/#openmoko Ralp1 (i=ralph@82.150.203.3) |
| 13:46.27 | zash` | but does it run windows vista? |
| 13:49.56 | Henryk | And ... does it blend? |
| 13:51.28 | *** join/#openmoko krLun (i=Blastur@kr-lun-168-149-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com) |
| 13:52.22 | krLun | i don't get it, what exactly is this "Santa's Sleigh Package Service"? |
| 13:52.48 | krLun | is it a pre-order system for GTA02? .. a lot of people, wikis and blogs seem to refer to it |
| 13:53.05 | cb22 | lol |
| 13:53.08 | SpeedEvil | Sorry. |
| 13:53.10 | cb22 | SpeedEvil, see what you've done :) |
| 13:53.10 | SpeedEvil | My fault. |
| 13:53.17 | SpeedEvil | I thought it would be clear it was a joke. |
| 13:53.28 | SpeedEvil | And that nobody would take it seriously. |
| 13:53.42 | SpeedEvil | There are a lot of people that are way way too literal out there. |
| 13:53.54 | krLun | it's an appropriate name for a pre-order system, since the device looks to be releasing around christmas :) |
| 13:54.16 | SpeedEvil | It's not a pre-order system. |
| 13:54.17 | *** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@pD9EAB32E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:54.21 | krLun | ok |
| 13:54.28 | SpeedEvil | It was intended to convey that the package would be delivered by santa. |
| 13:56.03 | *** join/#openmoko gmaxwell (n=gmaxwell@66.129.238.2) |
| 13:58.54 | *** part/#openmoko Ebbedc (n=ebbe@wireless.sdu.dk) |
| 13:59.10 | *** join/#openmoko wibbit (n=douglasf@SAGW-PRIMARY.ARC.COM) |
| 14:00.49 | *** join/#openmoko Pupeno- (n=Pupeno@dsl-37-170.dsl.netsource.ie) |
| 14:00.57 | giel__ | ha! |
| 14:01.00 | giel__ | mp3 playback! |
| 14:01.06 | giel__ | jerky, but it works |
| 14:01.18 | giel__ | very jerky :( |
| 14:01.36 | mstevens | okay, that image didn't work, the gui doesn't spot it should use more than a tiny corner of the screen |
| 14:01.55 | giel__ | mediaplayer taking 50-60%, pulseaudio taking 25% |
| 14:02.48 | Henryk | giel__: yes, known and fixed problem, fix not yet in the images |
| 14:02.56 | giel__ | ah okay |
| 14:03.03 | giel__ | Henryk: what is the problem? (just curious) |
| 14:03.23 | Henryk | <abraxa_> Please replace your libgstmad.so in /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10 with this one: http://abraxa.dyndns.org:81/random/libgstmad.so |
| 14:03.39 | giel__ | ah |
| 14:03.42 | giel__ | mad fucking up |
| 14:03.52 | Henryk | giel__: some tweaking some parameters, buffer size, allowed latency, or something like that |
| 14:04.09 | giel__ | still, 50% decoding time for mp3 is a bit steep |
| 14:04.16 | giel__ | but i'll check it out |
| 14:04.18 | giel__ | thanks! |
| 14:05.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03chris * r3123 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-task-manager.c src/today-utils.c): |
| 14:05.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/today-task-manager.c: |
| 14:05.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Change button order (bug #818) |
| 14:05.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/today-utils.c: |
| 14:05.10 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Fix compiler warning |
| 14:05.10 | giel__ | ah that's better |
| 14:05.13 | giel__ | not great, but better |
| 14:05.21 | *** join/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 14:05.54 | CM | giel__: Was some alsa state things too iirc. You can get a bit better sound |
| 14:05.58 | giel__ | pbly compiling everything without debugging and with optimizations and without spurious output will help as well :P |
| 14:06.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03chris * r3124 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/openmoko-today2/ (ChangeLog src/today-task-manager.c): |
| 14:06.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * src/today-task-manager.c: (today_task_manager_page_create): |
| 14:06.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Add the separator in the correct place... |
| 14:08.05 | Henryk | CM: yes, It's a good idea to disable "Amp Spk 3D" (or similar) in alsa |
| 14:08.30 | giel__ | ah ok |
| 14:10.30 | giel__ | is all muted |
| 14:12.17 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 14:12.33 | ozarka | So is anyone able to use their Neo as an everyday device? |
| 14:12.37 | ozarka | Even for a few hours? |
| 14:12.55 | ozarka | I put Qtopia on mine and it works for one or two calls |
| 14:12.55 | Henryk | Yeah, those that are using qtopia :) |
| 14:13.05 | ozarka | then it loses signal and won't get it back. |
| 14:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 14:13.39 | mstevens | ozarka: I've just got mine and being playing with the openmoko firmware, no luck with calls yet |
| 14:14.20 | ozarka | I got my device in Aug, and I didn't have much time to spend with it until the last few weeks. |
| 14:15.01 | ozarka | I like Qtopia, and I think it could even be sort of close to usable if the gsm would stay connected. |
| 14:15.22 | gmaxwell | giel__, how did you get the mediaplayer to work? |
| 14:16.02 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 14:16.07 | giel__ | gmaxwell: scaredycat image, scaredycat ipkg feed, ipkg update, ipkg install gst-plugin-pulse |
| 14:16.09 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:16.10 | Henryk | gmaxwell: you have the "error message shows and disappears instantly"? |
| 14:16.28 | Henryk | yeah, do what giel said |
| 14:16.32 | gmaxwell | Henryk, yes. I can keep the error up if I run it in gdb so it breakpoints on segfault. ;) |
| 14:17.01 | giel__ | i'm tempted to run it with just alsa output instead of pulse |
| 14:17.05 | Henryk | gmaxwell: i used that trick before. and then it's easy: just do what it said (e.g. install the plugin) |
| 14:17.13 | giel__ | should shave off a few% cpu usage |
| 14:17.25 | gmaxwell | Henryk, hmph. I thought I had... lemme turn it on and check. :) |
| 14:18.08 | giel__ | hm, i hear gsm noise in the headphones |
| 14:18.13 | giel__ | quite loud |
| 14:18.25 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-182-147.cust.broadway.se) |
| 14:20.02 | *** join/#openmoko aloril (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 14:24.37 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8CE2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:25.06 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 14:26.07 | mstevens | hmm it all works till I try to send Power On |
| 14:27.07 | gmaxwell | Cool. mediaplayer came up now.. loaded a Ogg/Vorbis file into it.. can't figure out how to actually make it play. |
| 14:27.18 | *** join/#openmoko xyzzy_bill (n=bill@adsl-065-005-192-157.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:27.21 | gi-el | ...with the play button |
| 14:27.27 | gmaxwell | (I guess I'd screwed up the gst-plugin-pulse install and installed something else instead) |
| 14:27.37 | gi-el | make playlist, add file, play |
| 14:27.51 | xyzzy_bill | Hey, guys. I'm very close to convincing myself to buy a NEO1973, and joining the coding effort. |
| 14:28.04 | gmaxwell | gi-el, I did that.. the position indicatort indicates 001/001 0:00 / 53375.32 ;) |
| 14:28.06 | mstevens | xyzzy_bill: do it and make calls work! :) |
| 14:28.06 | CM | xyzzy_bill: In how much of a hurry are you? |
| 14:28.26 | xyzzy_bill | The Ubuntu Mobile group currently isn't targetting smartphones. I'm in no hurry... I have another phone. |
| 14:28.30 | gi-el | gmaxwell: hm, i had that and that more or less fixed itself |
| 14:28.34 | gi-el | gmaxwell: try mp3 file? |
| 14:28.37 | CM | xyzzy_bill: The GTA02 is not far away now.. |
| 14:28.50 | abraxa__ | gmaxwell: Vorbis playback isn't optimized yet so it'll stutter/lag/whatever |
| 14:29.02 | xyzzy_bill | CM: Thanks. I can start with emulation, right? |
| 14:29.19 | CM | xyzzy_bill: Yes, download the makefile and build qemu :) |
| 14:29.51 | gmaxwell | abraxa__, Starting would be good. I'm pretty familar with the libvorbis codebase, though not arm assembly... if I could get it working well enough I'd probably stary optimizing it some! :) |
| 14:29.52 | CM | xyzzy_bill: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile |
| 14:29.58 | xyzzy_bill | CM: Ok, sounds good. Any ETA on the GTA02? |
| 14:30.12 | u_l-lap | xyzzy_bill: 1997 |
| 14:30.18 | CM | xyzzy_bill: Well, no exact date yet, but around christmas seems likely |
| 14:30.35 | ScaredyCat | can you hear sleigh bells? |
| 14:30.35 | CM | It's still just rumours and extrapolations |
| 14:30.47 | CM | ScaredyCat: It's snowing already here in Sweden.. |
| 14:30.53 | abraxa_ | gmaxwell: Actually, the bottleneck is gstreamer/pulse, not the decoder itself |
| 14:31.08 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@79-66-56-27.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 14:31.18 | gmaxwell | It would be really good if the software was more generally usable by then.. so if you want to help waiting might not be a great idea. |
| 14:31.52 | *** join/#openmoko semka (n=babushka@homeuser77.43.148.116.ccl.perm.ru) |
| 14:32.03 | gmaxwell | (software seems to mostly work.. but mostly still leaves a big gap. :) ) |
| 14:32.03 | CM | gmaxwell: I agree, but it depends on what level you want to help |
| 14:32.10 | xyzzy_bill | CM: Hmmm... I'm not a patient guy, and like hardware toys... Maybe I'll get the Neo1973 now, and the GTA02 for Xmas :-) |
| 14:32.10 | ScaredyCat | CM: I thought you were permanently under snow |
| 14:32.28 | CM | xyzzy_bill: Hehe.. Even better deal! |
| 14:32.38 | Henryk | gmaxwell: try to exit/restart mediaplayer after changing playlist. and try the prev/next track buttons |
| 14:32.51 | xyzzy_bill | CM: Yeah... being a 43-year-old hacker has some benefits... money. |
| 14:33.07 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 14:33.07 | *** part/#openmoko semka (n=babushka@homeuser77.43.148.116.ccl.perm.ru) |
| 14:33.12 | CM | xyzzy_bill: And 300 USD isn't bad |
| 14:33.29 | abraxa_ | CM: The wait after ordering however... ;) |
| 14:33.33 | CM | Or 450 if you want the debugboard. Depends on what you'll work on |
| 14:33.56 | *** part/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@pD9EAB32E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:34.03 | abraxa_ | CM: dynpart/saveenv didn't help? |
| 14:34.17 | xyzzy_bill | CM: No, it's not a bad deal. I'm fairly good with hardware and software, but I was thinking of not getting the debug board, and focusing on above-driver-level apps. |
| 14:34.26 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: tremor works on the arm |
| 14:35.00 | xyzzy_bill | CM: Would you recommend the debug boar? |
| 14:35.07 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, a good thing since fp emu would make it useless. ;) |
| 14:35.29 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: in times of ancient lore digital innovations paid Monty to port Tremor to a very slow fixed point TI DSP, and Tremor became fast enough to use on a 200Mhz ARM then |
| 14:35.43 | Henryk | openmoko-mediaplayer is till not good at playing ogg. ogg123 actually does work |
| 14:35.51 | u_l-lap | albeit without being able to play files above 190kbit/sish |
| 14:36.00 | u_l-lap | which given that 160 is transparant most of the time ... |
| 14:37.19 | gmaxwell | okay.. added a second ogg file.. hitting next track now causes it to think that its playing but I don't hear anything (interface clicks are still audiable however) .. getting closer.. |
| 14:37.50 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, support for higher bitrates isn't important for quality reasons.. it's important so the player can play files randomly found on the internet. :) |
| 14:38.15 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: aye, but I'm pretty sure there are some physical limits of computational power there |
| 14:38.19 | abraxa_ | gmaxwell: There's nothing you can do to aid that atm |
| 14:38.40 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: but I don't think it is a *huge* issue since the encoder defaults to ~128 and so random files would more likely than not be around there |
| 14:38.51 | CM | abraxa_: Didn't have time time to try yesterday, hope I can today |
| 14:39.02 | abraxa_ | CM: Ahh okay. Good luck! |
| 14:39.15 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, ... far more common than you think, random idiots setting quality to 10. ;) |
| 14:39.37 | gmaxwell | How big are the caches in the cpu in the neo1973? |
| 14:39.38 | *** join/#openmoko aloril (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 14:39.57 | _diego__ | 16k + 16k |
| 14:39.59 | CM | xyzzy_bill: I thought the same, but sometimes it feels safer to have that board. |
| 14:40.05 | xyzzy_bill | CM: Ok! The wife just gave me the OK for the Neo1973 (sans dev board) |
| 14:40.31 | CM | Unless you screw up uboot you'll never need the debugboard |
| 14:40.45 | abraxa_ | xyzzy_bill: lol... |
| 14:40.54 | CM | I've borked my partition table, but LaF0rge showed me how to fix that |
| 14:41.13 | xyzzy_bill | Getting out credit card... making purchase... BTW, is there any starving group of developers here to whom $80 is a generous donation that actually counts? |
| 14:41.20 | gmaxwell | hmm I don't know why higher bitrate modes should have any problems. The unrolled codebooks for q10 should fit ... There isn't a lot different at higher bitrates beyond the fact that the hufftree stuff is a bit bigger. Hmm. |
| 14:41.36 | *** join/#openmoko no_mind (n=shark@59.176.111.177) |
| 14:41.43 | _diego__ | how can i do screenshot in moko? In the latest build, there is no more "screenshot" in the menu |
| 14:41.48 | CM | xyzzy_bill: Just a warning, look at the last sentence here why the guy is selling the car: http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=92518 |
| 14:42.01 | CM | ;) |
| 14:42.42 | gmaxwell | hm. So no sound out of the mediaplayer with these oggfiles.. but it's busily pretending to play and burning cpu in the process.... I assume the clicks I get when I tap things are also via pulseaudio? |
| 14:43.01 | abraxa_ | CM: That is... wow |
| 14:43.07 | xyzzy_bill | CM: LOL!!! Yeah, even you have have money, you still need permision :-) |
| 14:43.18 | abraxa_ | gmaxwell: Yes, the clicks from from PulseAudio |
| 14:43.31 | gi-el | gmaxwell: try alsactl -f /etc/stereoout.state restore |
| 14:43.34 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: istr that the issue with the neuros vorbis decoder was the size of the codebooks and the obscenely slow speed that main memory could be accessed at |
| 14:44.11 | abraxa_ | gmaxwell: If you pause playback, wait like ~10 seconds and resume you'll notice that playback *does* happen but the CPU is just way too slow to handle it in real time |
| 14:44.24 | u_l-lap | pulseaudio! |
| 14:44.37 | CM | xyzzy_bill: Feel free to add yourself is you feel like it: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 14:44.41 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, it was but it was running on a cpu with smaller caches that were also also 1 wait state or something. |
| 14:45.34 | CM | xyzzy_bill: The wiki or here is were the answers are ;) |
| 14:45.38 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: at the same time it was *only* doing audio decoding and the cache on the phone is going to go to hell once you put the music player in the background |
| 14:45.45 | cb22 | Maledictus, ping |
| 14:46.10 | gmaxwell | abraxa_, you were correct.. |
| 14:46.31 | gmaxwell | wee pulse audio using a lot of cpu |
| 14:46.35 | xyzzy_bill | CM: Well, here's another dumb-ass question... what looks better, the black or white Neo1973? |
| 14:46.44 | cb22 | IMHO black |
| 14:46.45 | abraxa_ | xyzzy_bill: black |
| 14:46.47 | u_l-lap | jesus christ |
| 14:46.49 | *** join/#openmoko erflungued (n=erflungu@58.174.200.145) |
| 14:46.51 | u_l-lap | why does pulseaudio exist! |
| 14:46.53 | abraxa_ | Black+Silver can't be beat ;) |
| 14:47.02 | xyzzy_bill | abraxa_: Thanks |
| 14:47.06 | u_l-lap | jack predates it by a good while and is significantly lighterweight and superior in every way |
| 14:47.21 | abraxa_ | u_l-lap: PulseAudio *is* good, just the gstreamer side isn't optimized for embedded |
| 14:47.22 | CM | xyzzy_bill: I have a black one, but if you plan to get a GTA02, you might want a white GTA01 just because they're more rare ;) |
| 14:47.40 | u_l-lap | abraxa_: my friend was poking about with it and he said it was buggy? |
| 14:47.45 | CM | I'll probably buy a gta02 too.. If it's in my budget |
| 14:47.47 | cb22 | Maledictus, if you are around, i cant seem to get the freebsd src tree to compile with your changes |
| 14:47.55 | ozarka | I have the white/orange gta01 and everyone that has seen it says it's ugly. |
| 14:47.57 | u_l-lap | mostly evidinced by it randomly deciding to not work anymore |
| 14:47.59 | ozarka | But I like it. :-) |
| 14:48.06 | CM | ozarka: lol |
| 14:48.07 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, jack expects applications to tightly conform to its coding model though.. |
| 14:48.12 | abraxa_ | u_l-lap: It can be improved, sure - I myself haven't hit any bugs with it however |
| 14:48.24 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: that argument could be made about os x coreaudio and no one complains about it |
| 14:48.33 | ozarka | In Real Life, it looks more like an ice cream bar than a phone. |
| 14:48.47 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: and you could write a libserialjack or some lib that spawned off a thread and handled the audio requests in a seemingly serialized manner |
| 14:48.49 | abraxa_ | ozarka: Nice ;) |
| 14:48.53 | cb22 | ozarka, spraypaint! |
| 14:49.12 | gmaxwell | Ogg123 works fine. ;) |
| 14:49.21 | abraxa_ | u_l-lap: Context switches are expensive on ARM, though, so threads aren't the best idea imo |
| 14:49.24 | gmaxwell | seems that pulseaudio overhead was the difference between working and not. |
| 14:49.40 | abraxa_ | gmaxwell: It's gstreamer (how often did I say that now?) |
| 14:49.40 | *** part/#openmoko lukhas (n=lucas@rincevent.net) |
| 14:50.03 | u_l-lap | abraxa_: then an audio server in general is a bad idea :-) |
| 14:50.06 | gmaxwell | abraxa_, but the process name eating cpu is pulseaudio! ;) |
| 14:50.55 | abraxa_ | gmaxwell: Yeah but that's just a side effect ;) |
| 14:50.56 | u_l-lap | abraxa_: you could eliminate the separate threads and use a fancy buffer + signals but that would be a bit hairer to write |
| 14:51.46 | abraxa_ | u_l-lap: Well, somehow mixing has to occur... ALSA+dmix is too slow, EsounD apparently as well... pulse seems to fare the best out of the bunch |
| 14:52.01 | u_l-lap | abraxa_: jack! |
| 14:52.02 | gmaxwell | and jack is entirely floating point.... |
| 14:52.08 | u_l-lap | oh, damn you fp code! |
| 14:52.12 | abraxa_ | lol |
| 14:52.44 | u_l-lap | as jack is quite lightweight |
| 14:52.45 | gmaxwell | one of the reason jack works so well is that it has a single datatype to contend with. |
| 14:52.58 | u_l-lap | I could do 8-10 channel realtime audio work on my old 300Mhz k6 |
| 14:53.15 | gmaxwell | sure.. which has a fpu.. |
| 14:53.20 | u_l-lap | yeah |
| 14:53.40 | abraxa_ | ...and cache :) |
| 14:53.46 | u_l-lap | but still if it were integerized and sacrificed a tiny bit of quality it could probably run on a 266Mhz ARM |
| 14:55.12 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 14:56.11 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AE560.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:56.45 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: it only looks like fp numbers are used for capture |
| 14:56.47 | *** join/#openmoko linux-bastler (n=linux-ba@p5B12CFA6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:57.06 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat/x-108b7a385e54ccb0) |
| 14:57.22 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, ... all data in jack is floating point. 0_o |
| 14:57.41 | gmaxwell | So.. ogg123 can play a -q10 (400kbit/sec) ogg just file. |
| 14:57.46 | u_l-lap | yay |
| 14:57.50 | gmaxwell | On my GTA01... |
| 14:57.54 | abraxa_ | gmaxwell: How much CPU? |
| 14:58.11 | u_l-lap | oh crap, I forgot aout the internal audio format being 32-bit floating point |
| 14:58.18 | *** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@pD9EAB32E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:58.23 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: are you sure it isn't possible to change the internal audio format? |
| 14:58.28 | gmaxwell | top is saying 80%, though tops readings.. which isn't much higher than a 160kbit/sec ogg. |
| 14:58.38 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, it wouldn't be jack anymore then would it? ;) |
| 14:58.55 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, jack takes advantage of the wide dynamic range of floats to prevent overflow. ;) |
| 15:00.17 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: yeah but it would still be useful as a lightweight audio server if not for pro quality work |
| 15:00.52 | gmaxwell | feh actually.. this other file that I thought was 160kbit/sec is actually ~220kbit/sec.. I told you about these damn random files on the internet. |
| 15:01.17 | gmaxwell | I think vorbis encoders should only allow you to encode at over 160kbit if you beg. |
| 15:01.42 | gmaxwell | --q10 --yes-I-really-want-a-pointlessly-big-file --yes-I-am-aware-of-flac-and-thats-not-what-I-want |
| 15:01.44 | u_l-lap | did anyone ever implement a working vorbis bitrate peeler? |
| 15:02.03 | *** join/#openmoko der_io (n=der@p54A0E482.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:02.27 | *** join/#openmoko thomasgruebler (n=thomasgr@85-124-167-249.work.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 15:02.27 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, Working yes, kinda, but not of reasonable quality. They psymodel tuning is just too finniky for a peeler to work right. |
| 15:02.35 | SpeedEvil | Naah. 220K files are really 160K files, with the 60K being steganographic data. |
| 15:03.03 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e70c934.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 15:03.06 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, with the right mode tuning it could be done, but no one is really working on it. |
| 15:03.40 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: sucks so no progress in the last 2-3 years? |
| 15:03.47 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:03.56 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, I think there are only about a half dozen people in the world who have built a vorbis encoding mode. ... vorbis would really be a lot more impressive if it had the tuning effort behind it that lame has had. |
| 15:03.57 | u_l-lap | or the promised new cdparanoia |
| 15:04.33 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: istr that during the neuros port monty also realized that vorbis had a lot of crap that needed to be removed so he decided to start in one a slimmed down and improved vorbis II |
| 15:04.43 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, well the new codec is being worked on. ::shrugs:: Vorbis is more than good enough for its intended applications. |
| 15:05.06 | gmaxwell | The biggest problems with vorbis are ones you can't fix in tunings.. That it requires far too much fast memory. |
| 15:05.13 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r3125 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (lis302dl.patch series): |
| 15:05.13 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Follow change in 2.6.22: |
| 15:05.13 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (orig r3105): laforge | 2007-10-07 18:54:47 +0200 |
| 15:05.13 | CIA-23 | openmoko: add preliminary lis302 accelerometer input device driver for GTA02 |
| 15:06.09 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, Pretty much yes. The new codec is intended to solve the the 'needs too much fast memory' problem. |
| 15:06.39 | gmaxwell | A design assumption was made for vorbis that future mobile cpus would have plenty of fast memory but slowish cpus. The trend turned out to be the other way around. |
| 15:07.08 | u_l-lap | oops |
| 15:07.14 | u_l-lap | the crystal ball fails again |
| 15:07.53 | gmaxwell | The design trade off turned out to be just fine for desktop cpus (.. where performance didn't matter anyways). :) |
| 15:09.35 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: the performance did matter at the time ... I remember when my machine couldn't do vorbis 0.5ish |
| 15:09.42 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r3126 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (gta02-core.patch smedia-glamo.patch): |
| 15:09.42 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Follow change in 2.6.22: |
| 15:09.42 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (orig r3112): laforge | 2007-10-08 13:26:02 +0200 |
| 15:09.42 | CIA-23 | openmoko: glamo/gta02: The end address of resouces should be minus by one. This patch |
| 15:09.42 | CIA-23 | openmoko: also fixes a typo where glamo-3d uses glamo-2d's resources. (Chia-I Wu) |
| 15:09.46 | u_l-lap | and then I remember having to reencode my entire damn collection a few times |
| 15:09.59 | u_l-lap | good thing my collection wasn't huge back then |
| 15:10.19 | buz | mhh so we do get a 3d driver |
| 15:10.22 | CM | u_l-lap: I wish I had done all mine to flac.. |
| 15:10.47 | buz | most have |
| 15:10.50 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, Well that was just because the code was almost completely unoptimized prior to .. um beta4 or so. |
| 15:11.00 | buz | which is why i dont think we'll see much in the line of new audio formats |
| 15:11.03 | buz | mp3 is good enough |
| 15:11.13 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@139.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:11.30 | u_l-lap | buz: mp3 is NOT good enough |
| 15:11.32 | gmaxwell | buz, What if you could get quality comparible to good 128kbit mp3s in 24kbit/s ? :) |
| 15:11.32 | ScaredyCat | flac wasn't an option when i did mine.. |
| 15:11.40 | CM | buz: Yes, it is. Especially for portal players and such |
| 15:11.43 | u_l-lap | buz: play it on a pair of real speakers (e.g. live audio system) and cringe in terror |
| 15:11.44 | ScaredyCat | all my cd's are somewhere in the loft... |
| 15:11.53 | ScaredyCat | probably covered in spiders |
| 15:11.57 | buz | u_l-lap: you just dont want 128kbit |
| 15:11.58 | CM | ScaredyCat: Same here, or my parents attic.. |
| 15:12.02 | buz | 256kbit is more than good enough |
| 15:12.04 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r3127 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/smedia-glamo.patch: |
| 15:12.04 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Follow change in 2.6.22: |
| 15:12.04 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (orig r3113): laforge | 2007-10-08 13:28:08 +0200 |
| 15:12.04 | CIA-23 | openmoko: glamo: raise frame rate from 40Hz to 60Hz: DCLK ration is now 2:1 instead of 3:1 (Chia-I Wu) |
| 15:12.04 | gmaxwell | ScaredyCat, if not flac then shorten |
| 15:12.08 | buz | even 192 sounds good |
| 15:12.33 | u_l-lap | buz: vorbis reaches transparancy on a decent system at around 160 or 192kbit/s whereas mp3 still has artifacts until you hit 320 and even then on music with a large dynamic range you *still* hear distortion |
| 15:12.48 | buz | yeah or so they say, until you put them in blind test setups |
| 15:13.00 | u_l-lap | maybe not an issue when you're listening on headphones on a computer but I could hear on my live setup |
| 15:13.10 | u_l-lap | I was kind of depressed at how bad 128k vorbis files sounded then |
| 15:13.36 | *** join/#openmoko zefanja (n=zefanja@drsd-4db35fe3.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 15:13.58 | buz | maybe i'm a bad example anyhow, as i always push stuff through equalizer anyhow |
| 15:14.06 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, really all the state of the art encoders (acc, vorbis, lame mp3) are transparent at ~140kbit/sec except for a few bad egg samples. |
| 15:14.13 | buz | but true enough, i cant stand 128kbit |
| 15:14.15 | ScaredyCat | you're both bad examples |
| 15:14.23 | ScaredyCat | 90% don;t give a fuck |
| 15:14.27 | buz | exactly |
| 15:14.35 | buz | which is why mp3 IS good enough |
| 15:14.40 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, usually a high quality playback rig makes perceptual codecs sound *better* because a low quality rig can violate the perceptual assumptions of the codec. |
| 15:15.11 | gmaxwell | In any case... see what I said above. What if you had good quality in 24kbit/sec? ... many people would care. |
| 15:15.19 | buz | flash is incredibly cheap now |
| 15:15.23 | buz | so no, i wouldnt care |
| 15:15.32 | buz | my 1GB shuffle barely ever is filled |
| 15:15.43 | ScaredyCat | you'd still want bigger flash, to get more on it |
| 15:15.53 | ScaredyCat | really? |
| 15:15.54 | gmaxwell | buz: People buy 30/40gb hdd based players by the droves. (fruit brand infact) |
| 15:16.03 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: it didn't for me and my amp has a flat response curve (well, 0.01% THD so not quite) and the speakers were a bit wobbly but no more than +/-3dB between 200Hz and 18kHz |
| 15:16.31 | ScaredyCat | none of the existing players can hold my entire collection... |
| 15:16.35 | ScaredyCat | that's my problem.. |
| 15:16.36 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, who cares about the speakrs? room behavior totally dominates the system behavior. ;) |
| 15:16.46 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: curse you ;-)! |
| 15:16.49 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r3128 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (s3c2410_udc-2440_dual_packet-workaround.patch series): |
| 15:16.49 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Follow changes in 2.6.22: |
| 15:16.50 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (orig r3117): laforge | 2007-10-08 15:40:41 +0200 |
| 15:16.50 | CIA-23 | openmoko: add dual packet workaround to series |
| 15:16.50 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (orig r3116): laforge | 2007-10-08 15:40:11 +0200 |
| 15:16.51 | CIA-23 | openmoko: add patch from werner to work around s3c2440 dual packet mode usb hangs |
| 15:16.54 | ScaredyCat | I want the disk space back, and to move the music out |
| 15:16.55 | u_l-lap | in any case mp3 is evil |
| 15:17.02 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, http://drc-fir.sourceforge.net/ |
| 15:17.27 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: damn that would have been useful when I did live sound |
| 15:17.51 | u_l-lap | instead I had to fiddle with the equalizer by hand and guess what sounded good as I was too poor for fancy equipment to do it for me |
| 15:17.54 | buz | gmaxwell: exactly, which is why decent headphones nearly always sound better than even veryexpensive setups |
| 15:18.34 | gmaxwell | In any case, Monty's current project is "ghost", an ambitious codec which intends to be able to deliver acceptable quality at around the 20-30kbit/sec mark, and have low enough latency to use for wideband VoIP. |
| 15:18.40 | *** join/#openmoko chris^^ (n=kraetzi@p548AE560.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:18.47 | gmaxwell | buz, Yep. :) |
| 15:18.59 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: is that even mathemagically possible? |
| 15:19.15 | buz | and as for the 30GB fruit players, well i have a 3G one which was outrageously expensive in its day and remain unimpressed ;) |
| 15:19.16 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, Yes. It's possible.. carefully hand tuned testing indicates as much. |
| 15:19.22 | u_l-lap | damn |
| 15:19.47 | gmaxwell | u_l-lap, may not be engineering-wise possible to achieve.. we'll see. :) |
| 15:19.54 | buz | if it maxes out a core2 during playing, i sure wont care for it |
| 15:20.14 | gmaxwell | buz, obviously no.. the cpu target is mobile devices. |
| 15:20.22 | gmaxwell | Which is probably the hardest part. ;) |
| 15:20.45 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: btw I think it might actually be possible to make jack use fixed point audio streams but I'd have to ask las |
| 15:21.12 | u_l-lap | gmaxwell: the general jack architecture was built to allow different kind of streams to be routed at least back in the day (and it can do midi now so I imagine the general transport framework is there) |
| 15:21.30 | ScaredyCat | CM: anythingbutipod.com |
| 15:21.49 | buz | next thing i'll buy is likely a zenstone plus |
| 15:21.57 | GoGi | why does mokomakefile rune qemu to build packages? |
| 15:22.03 | buz | nearly as small as the shuffle, but twice as much storage and a display |
| 15:22.24 | xyzzy_bill | CM: I had a iPhone, which got bricked with the 1.1.1 firmware update. I smashed the thing to pieces in front of the "Genius" at the Apple store. |
| 15:22.25 | buz | or a cowon player |
| 15:22.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r3129 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/gta02-core.patch: |
| 15:22.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Follow change in 2.6.22: |
| 15:22.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (orig r3119): laforge | 2007-10-08 16:49:16 +0200 |
| 15:22.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: GTA02: add definitions for gsensor GPIO and IRQ |
| 15:22.38 | CIA-23 | openmoko: GTA02: vbus_draw is a void function, not int |
| 15:22.54 | CM | xyzzy_bill: Hehe.. Way to go! Welcome to OpenMoko ;) |
| 15:23.00 | gmaxwell | xyzzy_bill, You should have filmed the smashing. ;) |
| 15:23.16 | buz | the iphone doesnt film |
| 15:23.20 | buz | oh wait a sec.... |
| 15:23.40 | xyzzy_bill | CM: Thanks... now just gotta wait for the phone... Will look at SW dev in meantime. |
| 15:24.02 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=dr@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 15:24.11 | CM | xyzzy_bill: The easiest way to build everything is using the MokoMakefile |
| 15:24.23 | CM | It even builds qemu and all other tools you'll need :) |
| 15:27.18 | ScaredyCat | I love how apple being fucktards makes others able to quote 'user replaceable battery' as a feature |
| 15:27.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r3130 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/lis302dl.patch: |
| 15:27.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Follow change in 2.6.22: |
| 15:27.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (orig r3120): laforge | 2007-10-08 16:50:08 +0200 |
| 15:27.44 | CIA-23 | openmoko: use new #defines for gta02 gsensor IRQ and GPIO |
| 15:31.22 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:31.29 | *** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@81-208-31-222.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 15:32.06 | abraxa_ | xyzzy_bill: What happened to your AT&T contract? |
| 15:33.32 | xyzzy_bill | abraxa_: They gave me a new SIM, which I put into the $20 go-phone I bought from Best Buy. |
| 15:33.39 | gmaxwell | ScaredyCat, The fruitheads have a product with a user replacable battery? :) |
| 15:34.34 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r3131 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (s3c2410-pwm.patch series): |
| 15:34.34 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Follow change in 2.6.22: |
| 15:34.34 | CIA-23 | openmoko: (orig r3121): laforge | 2007-10-08 18:06:32 +0200 |
| 15:34.34 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Add new S3C2410 PWM core (Javi Roman) |
| 15:36.08 | *** join/#openmoko muhh (n=muh@254-151.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 15:36.20 | muhh | Hi |
| 15:36.48 | muhh | who can edit openmoko wiki pages? |
| 15:37.13 | abraxa_ | xyzzy_bill: Ah, so you're still using the contract? |
| 15:37.18 | abraxa_ | muhh: Everyone :) |
| 15:37.34 | muhh | abraxa_ : I don't want to register just for a simple thing. |
| 15:37.40 | muhh | the point is that : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko:Community_Portal#IRC |
| 15:37.42 | abraxa_ | muhh: What do you want changed? |
| 15:37.52 | muhh | is speaking about this IRC channel. but it's missing the server :-) |
| 15:37.58 | abraxa_ | ohhh |
| 15:37.58 | muhh | I mean there are 100000 irc networks.. |
| 15:38.01 | abraxa_ | Okay |
| 15:38.28 | muhh | it's just "(on irc.freenode.org)" |
| 15:38.29 | Henryk | muhh: there are other networks besides freenode? ;-) |
| 15:38.34 | muhh | :D |
| 15:38.47 | *** join/#openmoko Marcel_M (n=Marcel_M@86.59.65.236) |
| 15:39.05 | Henryk | Isn't that one of the commandments? Thou shalt not have any other network or something |
| 15:39.13 | muhh | anyway I came here for a technical quesiton that I haven't seen answered on the site, probably because it's not on the project. |
| 15:39.15 | muhh | :p |
| 15:39.20 | abraxa_ | muhh: Thanks, it's changed now |
| 15:39.48 | muhh | the thing I'm looking for is if the phone can use 2 sim cards at the same time. It shouldn't be that challenging (for me it is) |
| 15:40.09 | XorA | muhh: gaffa tape two phones together |
| 15:40.16 | muhh | I would loove a phone that can listen to 2 cards at the same time. maybe use one at a time, but listen to both. |
| 15:40.27 | abraxa_ | muhh: Actually it is challenging because that would require 2 GSM modems - and thus drain battery faster |
| 15:40.35 | muhh | XorA lol. u don't imagine how it is useful |
| 15:40.38 | XorA | muhh: thats not techincally possible without having two sets of GSM rf kit |
| 15:41.02 | muhh | abraxa_ 2 modems? really? I thought you just need a special modem that is able to use both codes. |
| 15:41.30 | XorA | muhh: but i2c is avable near the battery so you could make an extended back with a SIM switcher driven by i2c so you could press button on GUI and switch SIM |
| 15:41.41 | muhh | because the frequencies should be about the same. it's just the "software" that read the right packets that should be changed. |
| 15:42.02 | XorA | muhh: one sim couild be 1900, another 800 so freqs might not be near |
| 15:42.02 | Henryk | muhh: probably not, because each modem has its own identification (IMEI) and each sim has its own identification |
| 15:42.23 | Henryk | the provider won't like two sims on one imei |
| 15:42.37 | XorA | that will get phone blocked on some networks |
| 15:42.41 | ScaredyCat | you can get sim switchers |
| 15:43.31 | XorA | a Neo SIM switcher would be cool, because we can control it by I2C |
| 15:43.53 | muhh | so basically a modem could connect to just one network. so I need two modem. |
| 15:44.24 | Henryk | right |
| 15:44.39 | muhh | well, maybe in the future when batteries will be more powerful and modem less power hungry. I'm sure there are businessmen who would love it. And I'll love it at least to make cheap calls to all my friends in different networks. |
| 15:45.00 | Henryk | it might be possible to buy a cheap phone and enslave it over bluetooth. something like that is already requested in the wiki |
| 15:45.07 | XorA | muhh: GSM can support multiple lines on multiple contracts, just wake the providers up |
| 15:45.12 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r3132 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/s3c2410-pwm.patch: Update s3c2410-pwm.patch to apply on 2.6.23-rc9 |
| 15:45.57 | *** part/#openmoko linux-bastler (n=linux-ba@p5B12CFA6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:46.33 | muhh | providers will never change. they don't want to waste money. that's because of interconnection rates. if I pay just a few cents per hour on my network, I'll pay the same amount per MINUTE when connect to another network. if I have a sim of the other network I'll spend less. and networks don't like that. |
| 15:46.34 | Henryk | muhh: you'll have to have a second modem (== phone) anyways, so just take a full blown phone, establish bluetooth connection and just keep it somewhere near your neo (e.g. in your backpack) |
| 15:47.17 | XorA | muhh: I pay the same no matter what network I phone |
| 15:47.33 | muhh | XorA: not here. the prices are very different. |
| 15:49.01 | muhh | Maybe in the future it could be agood idea to have this kind of option on the phone. I'm sure that the advances in thecnology will allow to develop this kind of phone. For sure Nokia & Co will *never* do that because they are in some way controlled by providers. |
| 15:49.03 | cjb_ie | vodafone ireland support two contracts on a single sim - one prepay, one postpay |
| 15:49.17 | *** join/#openmoko root_ (n=root@86.59.65.236) |
| 15:49.18 | muhh | two contract with the same company that's ok for them. |
| 15:50.31 | muhh | here (.ch) for example you have sunrise = 30cents per hour on sunrise or landline. Swisscom 40cents/hour on swisscome/landline. both network change hour with minutes if you phone to the other company's mobile network. |
| 15:50.48 | SpeedEvil | It's a fundamental packing and price problem. |
| 15:51.06 | muhh | yeah. price problem = you can't solve it. |
| 15:51.09 | SpeedEvil | Currently there are no chipsets to do 'two phone' mode cheaper than 2*one phone |
| 15:51.14 | SpeedEvil | And easier |
| 15:51.25 | cjb_ie | there are dual sim adaptors, but they're very kludgey |
| 15:51.26 | *** join/#openmoko tux_440volt (n=subhodip@61.246.161.218) |
| 15:51.29 | SpeedEvil | So you have basically two complete phone chipsets and attendant hardware in the phone. |
| 15:51.47 | cjb_ie | (power cycle the phone to switch sims) |
| 15:51.48 | SpeedEvil | Dual SIM adaptors are a tiny part of the problem - you can't logon to multiple nets with them |
| 15:52.24 | muhh | it could be reallistically built a phone with 2 sim/modem inside. just a single hardware that check both. I mean, if I check the space occupied by an iPhone I can put 2 nokia 3310 on that space. :D |
| 15:52.24 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3133 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta02-core.patch pcf50633.patch): |
| 15:52.24 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * export all pcf50633 symbols as _GPL symbols. |
| 15:52.24 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * replace pcf50633_gpo0_{get,set} with generic pcf50633_gpio_{get,set} |
| 15:52.24 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * complete GTA02 >= v2 GSM power switching support (based on patch by jserv) |
| 15:53.55 | Maledictus | cb22: pong. I think you mean the stuff from the wiki? |
| 15:54.02 | *** join/#openmoko henrikw (n=henrik@56.84-48-193.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:54.57 | cb22 | Maledictus, yeah |
| 15:55.30 | Maledictus | Andrew Turner wrote it. I just used it under a -current where it did work |
| 15:55.43 | Maledictus | have you set TARGET=arm and TARGET_ARCH=arm? |
| 15:55.54 | cb22 | yep, i followed the instructions on the wiki |
| 15:55.57 | cb22 | on 6.2-stable |
| 15:56.16 | Maledictus | hmm, don't know if anyone tried that |
| 15:56.25 | cb22 | -current only? |
| 15:56.29 | Maledictus | There have been a lot of arm work in current |
| 15:56.36 | Maledictus | so I think its current only :) |
| 15:56.45 | cb22 | ok, i'll just cvsup a -current tree down |
| 15:56.52 | cb22 | ty for all the work :) |
| 15:57.02 | Maledictus | np :) |
| 15:57.10 | *** join/#openmoko mstevens_ (n=mstevens@82-71-23-88.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 15:57.17 | mstevens_ | the more I think about this phone the more excited I get |
| 15:57.25 | *** part/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 15:57.50 | Maledictus | Are there any news on the gps front that I missed? especially is the blob still needed for gta02? |
| 15:58.03 | cb22 | mstevens_, +1 |
| 15:58.09 | cb22 | Maledictus, not really |
| 15:58.16 | cb22 | AFAIK they are looking at another chipset |
| 15:58.26 | cb22 | one that speaks NMEA |
| 15:58.40 | Maledictus | hmm, that would be very late if they want to ship em in december |
| 15:58.47 | cb22 | s/are/were/ |
| 15:58.56 | mstevens_ | on the downside, still can't make calls |
| 15:58.57 | Maledictus | ah. any public info? |
| 15:59.02 | cb22 | nope |
| 15:59.09 | cb22 | just memory from irc |
| 15:59.21 | cb22 | maybe roh has some more info |
| 15:59.52 | Henryk | as far as i am informed it is still not finally decided what gps goes into gta02, at least not publically |
| 16:00.07 | SpeedEvil | The latest was that they were evaluating AGPS chipsets on candidate hardware. |
| 16:00.17 | Maledictus | ok. that's K.O. criteria for me :) |
| 16:00.49 | SpeedEvil | I have to think that a decision must have been made by now for it to be saleable by December. |
| 16:01.08 | Maledictus | yep |
| 16:02.20 | Henryk | There will be no end user release by september. |
| 16:02.33 | Henryk | but yeah, the hardware is about to be final in 1 month |
| 16:02.42 | ScaredyCat | eh? |
| 16:02.49 | ScaredyCat | we're in October already... |
| 16:02.59 | Henryk | s/september/december/ |
| 16:03.03 | ScaredyCat | if it was going t be available in September, it missed |
| 16:03.04 | Henryk | there have been samples with both gps chipsets that are being considered |
| 16:03.22 | ScaredyCat | yes, but that's old news |
| 16:03.24 | Maledictus | which are? |
| 16:03.39 | gamin | hammerhead and some other |
| 16:04.16 | Maledictus | hammerhead is the current oneß |
| 16:04.18 | Maledictus | ? |
| 16:04.20 | *** join/#openmoko mstevens (n=mstevens@saigo.etla.org) |
| 16:04.28 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 16:04.56 | mstevens | okay, I need to persuade NetworkManager that plugging in an openmoko is NOT a signal to go "ooh, a new ethernet port, I must disconnect you from the internet and use this new connection" |
| 16:05.00 | gamin | maybe it is a sirf the other? |
| 16:05.12 | ScaredyCat | mstevens: yes, that's annoying :) |
| 16:05.22 | XorA | mstevens: good luck, that bug has been in NM bugftracker for 2 years |
| 16:05.52 | mstevens | XorA: alternatively, I could just switch back to my desktop :) |
| 16:05.56 | *** join/#openmoko xatax (n=kvirc@amarok/developer/xatax) |
| 16:06.15 | ScaredyCat | you can fix it if you're using opensuse |
| 16:06.29 | mstevens | ubuntu |
| 16:06.39 | ScaredyCat | well... |
| 16:06.51 | xatax | Funny.. I came here to find out a bit more about gta02, and the topic killed my hopes :) |
| 16:06.58 | kristian-m | mstevens yea same bug here - at least when plugging in the ethernet port again - ubuntu |
| 16:07.21 | viq | xatax: at least you read it, many people don't ;) |
| 16:07.22 | mstevens | on my desktop I don't use NM so it'll be fine |
| 16:07.25 | Henryk | that's because networkmanager is mostly useless when you really want to use the linux networking stack |
| 16:07.35 | Henryk | i have 4 interfaces up, most of the time |
| 16:07.54 | ScaredyCat | it's a lot more useful if you're using a laptop |
| 16:07.55 | kristian-m | mstevens anyway it sucks in kombination with ifup and ifdown - i hate it |
| 16:08.01 | u_l-lap | ScaredyCat: is it? |
| 16:08.03 | freelock | Configure the usb0 device manually, NetworkMananger should ignore it... |
| 16:08.04 | u_l-lap | I just use debian' |
| 16:08.06 | u_l-lap | s network stuff |
| 16:08.06 | mstevens | Henryk: it usually works on a laptop where you just want "grab the first network you can find", but beyond that... |
| 16:08.09 | ScaredyCat | ell, yes |
| 16:08.15 | freelock | I have no trouble here with NetworkManager on Ubuntu |
| 16:08.22 | u_l-lap | life works out well I have multiple eth0 configs for when I am on my home network or out and aboot and need dhcp |
| 16:08.33 | u_l-lap | then again I'm a fan of using emacs for configurating things |
| 16:08.37 | xatax | mjr: thats actualy the point.. wiki seems a bit .. confused :) |
| 16:08.45 | u_l-lap | why back in my day all we had were text files and we enjoyed it |
| 16:08.48 | xatax | i.e. some pages talk about october 2007 :) |
| 16:09.13 | XorA | Dec 2007 is at earliest it will be available |
| 16:09.25 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k511.webspeed.dk) |
| 16:09.29 | mjr | xatax, yeah well, that's an availability issue, which, as noted, is a dead horse, though you're welcome to fix the wiki :] |
| 16:09.49 | XorA | wikis collect misinforation by design |
| 16:09.57 | *** part/#openmoko jsmanrique (n=jsmanriq@cme-staticIP-212-89-8-169.telecable.es) |
| 16:10.07 | xatax | Ok.. My biggest question is actually, if i buy the gta01.. will the future software run on it? Or will the future software take heaps of advantage from the GPU etc, and support for gta01 will be scrapped? |
| 16:10.10 | ScaredyCat | XorA: didn't we just get december as a no no from Henryk? |
| 16:10.23 | SpeedEvil | It's opensource. |
| 16:10.35 | ScaredyCat | xatax: mickeyl said the 01 will be supported into the future |
| 16:10.39 | SpeedEvil | So if it's supported, at worst, you can fork it. |
| 16:10.41 | Henryk | ScaredyCat: as a end user no |
| 16:10.45 | XorA | <Henryk> but yeah, the hardware is about to be final in 1 month |
| 16:11.21 | mjr | gpu eyecandy better be optional on the gta02 also... :] |
| 16:11.30 | xatax | I sooo wish i could go into the future, and get the hardware today :P then fork the software to work :) |
| 16:11.34 | SpeedEvil | Henryk: are you saying that december won't be hit? |
| 16:11.35 | mickeyl | we're not nokia *cough* |
| 16:11.40 | ScaredyCat | oh we knew that Henryk - we've been taking bets on that since july |
| 16:11.54 | mickeyl | i'm commited to support gta01 as long as the hardware runs |
| 16:11.58 | mickeyl | heh |
| 16:12.03 | mjr | mickeyl, that's good to know |
| 16:12.08 | ScaredyCat | so until the last one dies? |
| 16:12.15 | mickeyl | the last one i own ;) |
| 16:12.15 | XorA | mickeyl: good thing you made shoddy hardware so they only last a month eh!!!! :-D |
| 16:12.21 | mickeyl | hahaha |
| 16:12.21 | Kero | did package libmatchbox get ditched? replaced by? matchbox-wm can not find libmb ... |
| 16:12.22 | mickeyl | right |
| 16:12.30 | ScaredyCat | or have you built in a "die in 1 year" ;) |
| 16:12.35 | mjr | my gta01 sleeps in an oxygen tent for longevity |
| 16:12.35 | gmaxwell | Plus there are a lot of GTA01s out there..if no one here supports them someone will. |
| 16:12.52 | SpeedEvil | There is support, and support. |
| 16:12.53 | ScaredyCat | trolltech... |
| 16:13.05 | xatax | well optionally mickeyl can always just accidentally drop the gta01 to get rid of the supporting promise :) |
| 16:13.29 | gmaxwell | mjr: I expect an oxygen tent would be anti-longevity. |
| 16:13.36 | gmaxwell | mjr: bath of ln2.... |
| 16:13.52 | SpeedEvil | For example, there was lots of interest in reverse engineering GTA01s GPS, when it was supposed to be going into GTA02 too. Now that there is a possibility that there will only be several thousand chips with the GPS chipset, it's gotten pushed down many peoples stacks. |
| 16:14.10 | SpeedEvil | s/chips/phones/ |
| 16:14.17 | mjr | gmaxwell, damn. Now I need to treat it with homeopathic remedies, ie. lots of water |
| 16:14.41 | gmaxwell | mjr, so long as it's deionized water.... ;) |
| 16:15.02 | zash` | break unless self.insurance.valid? |
| 16:15.09 | mjr | gmaxwell, it's wearing a magnetic collar for that! |
| 16:16.03 | gmaxwell | apt: lack of working gps has bummed me out: I'm working on a location aware wikipedia data driven mapping application. :( |
| 16:16.07 | viq | http://excds.ath.cx/fun/images/warranty_void.png |
| 16:16.17 | viq | ;) |
| 16:16.40 | mjr | hehe |
| 16:17.29 | SpeedEvil | gmaxwell: what do you mean by that? |
| 16:17.31 | ScaredyCat | shame it's not a doctored image |
| 16:18.06 | |R | hahaha |
| 16:19.08 | abraxa_ | viq: Seal clubbing is not funny |
| 16:20.35 | SpeedEvil | I'd expect it to be $7.80 at 1K |
| 16:20.36 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 16:20.46 | Henryk | Except of course "Seal" is the name of a club you go to dance to |
| 16:21.12 | ScaredyCat | that's Seal not seal... |
| 16:21.13 | *** join/#openmoko simon_ (n=simon@w208.wist.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 16:22.59 | xatax | Hmmz.. so i quess my next phone wont be openmoko after all :( |
| 16:23.30 | ScaredyCat | depends when you buy your next phone |
| 16:23.45 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 16:24.10 | Henryk | or how long you are willing to continue using your old phone |
| 16:24.28 | xatax | well.. its not how long am i willing to use it, rather how long will it last :) |
| 16:24.29 | *** join/#openmoko Lunpa (n=lunpa@rch85-2-88-163-221-31.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:24.51 | ScaredyCat | you can always get a cheap 20 phone to last you... ;) |
| 16:25.47 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 16:26.14 | xatax | naah i think i'll go with the HP 514 voice messenger until openmoko is a bit more mature |
| 16:26.14 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A56FDD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:26.26 | tuukkah | seems like a good strategy to keep some simple phone and have openmoko as a second, smart phone |
| 16:26.40 | xatax | PS: is there any.. mm.. emulator variant to test the software? |
| 16:27.02 | tuukkah | sure, qemu |
| 16:27.22 | xyzzy_bill | xatax: Tuukkah's suggestion is what I'm doing... I got the $20 go-phone for regular voice, and I'll hack the Neo for smart phone. |
| 16:28.58 | xyzzy_bill | xatax: I'm a total newbie (1 hr of experience so far), but install just seemed to go OK. |
| 16:29.11 | xatax | naah.. not good enough at the moment.. i think ill rather wait for the gta02 hardware |
| 16:29.13 | xatax | i want wifi :P |
| 16:29.26 | xatax | and faster cpu comes always in handy |
| 16:29.40 | xyzzy_bill | xatax: Yeah, I agree. I suspect I'll get another phone with gta02 comes out |
| 16:29.54 | xatax | i aint that rich :P |
| 16:29.56 | xyzzy_bill | xatax: 256meg program memory will also be handy, I suspect. |
| 16:30.28 | gmaxwell | xyzzy_bill, So there is no confusion, thats 256MB flash |
| 16:32.01 | xyzzy_bill | gmaxwell: correct. Is the 64meg flash in neo1973 currently much of a problem |
| 16:32.23 | Henryk | yes, it's starting to be, after the switch to 2007.2 and glibcs |
| 16:32.27 | Henryk | s/bcs/bc/ |
| 16:32.33 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-138-133.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:33.46 | mjr | with a lot of python crap installed, the internal nand _is_ a bit cramped |
| 16:33.58 | Henryk | yeah, and then you install mono and java :) |
| 16:37.08 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=khmhm@3e70c934.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 16:37.34 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:38.04 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8CE2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:39.15 | xyzzy_bill | mjr: Can we supplement with microsd? |
| 16:39.37 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 16:39.38 | mjr | yeah, you can install packages under the card root |
| 16:39.46 | gmaxwell | xyzzy_bill, Speaking from my zaurus expirence having operating system files on removable media is sucky. |
| 16:39.53 | SpeedEvil | The problem is the core software should ideally not takeup more than onboard memory |
| 16:40.03 | SpeedEvil | Leaving 5M or so free for user data. |
| 16:40.06 | mjr | core shouldn't, quite agree |
| 16:40.11 | SpeedEvil | Otherwise, you can't change the card. |
| 16:40.32 | mjr | said python, mono and java crap, on the other hand... |
| 16:40.41 | gmaxwell | SpeedEvil, unless you dupe those files on all your cards... you've got to shut it off to change the cards anyways.. still not very user friendly. |
| 16:42.39 | SpeedEvil | Yes, of course. |
| 16:42.59 | SpeedEvil | But, having large sets of applications break when you do that is bad. |
| 16:43.17 | xyzzy_bill | Well, I thought I'd just get one big card (4 or 8 gig), and never replace it. |
| 16:43.17 | Writchie | micro sd is about as easily replacable as a laptop harddrive ;) |
| 16:43.58 | CM | What is taking up so much space in OM btw, qtopia is around 30mb and OM 43 or so |
| 16:44.04 | Henryk | you don't need a screwdriver though |
| 16:45.08 | Writchie | but most need a guitar pick |
| 16:45.19 | gmaxwell | yea.. hehe having to remove the sim to get to it is .. well it's a cute arrangement. ;) |
| 16:45.35 | gmaxwell | I didn't think 8gByte micro-sd was available yet. |
| 16:45.40 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-139-168-192-245.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 16:45.41 | Writchie | we used to call "wrong" not cute |
| 16:46.31 | *** join/#openmoko Lynet (n=lars_gaa@084202176097.customer.alfanett.no) |
| 16:46.32 | Writchie | actually its a good idea if you intend to actually use it as a primary drive |
| 16:46.38 | gamin | will the gta02 be running everything as root too? |
| 16:46.58 | Writchie | gamin: mine certainly won't |
| 16:47.02 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg (n=thomasg@p57AFD58A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:47.32 | gamin | actually it is more an openmoko question... |
| 16:47.35 | mjr | gmaxwell, a local store here currently guestimates they'll stock 8 giggers early next month, though it's not maximally reliable |
| 16:47.59 | mjr | anyway, not right now, but soonish |
| 16:48.15 | Writchie | gamin: far more important things first |
| 16:48.20 | *** join/#openmoko aloril (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 16:48.41 | gamin | Writchie: like gsmd working? ;-p |
| 16:50.15 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 16:51.31 | mstevens | ooh, qtopia lets me get network... |
| 16:51.58 | gmaxwell | mstevens, You can't get on the network from the OM image?? |
| 16:52.06 | mstevens | gmaxwell: no |
| 16:52.19 | guaqua | mjr: did they have an estimate, how much does eight gigs cost? |
| 16:52.31 | mstevens | still can't make calls though |
| 16:52.54 | gmaxwell | mstevens, Oh I didn't have any problems networking to the OM image. It just has a static IP set... |
| 16:53.12 | tuukkah | ip network or gsm network ?-) |
| 16:53.16 | mstevens | gsm network |
| 16:53.21 | gmaxwell | duh. okay sorry. :) |
| 16:53.31 | tuukkah | well, both should be working already |
| 16:53.41 | tuukkah | making calls, even :-) |
| 16:53.47 | gmaxwell | I was able to SMS from qtopia. :) Couldn't call though. |
| 16:54.54 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@lavalette.guerrier.info) |
| 16:57.27 | mjr | guaqua, 100 € |
| 16:58.13 | mjr | 60 for 6 GB |
| 16:58.16 | thomasg | I have some problems with my own openmoko mirror. I downloaded my http://gstaedtner.net/openmoko/thomasg.conf to /etc/ipkg/ on the neo like everytime, but when I try to install a package from my mirror it doesn't resolve the dependencies. mostly this are files starting with lib... all the necessary deps are in the Packages files. any ideas? |
| 16:58.36 | Henryk | thomasg: you did ipkg update, right? |
| 16:58.42 | thomasg | Henryk: yes, I did |
| 16:58.52 | mstevens | I fail at qtopia |
| 16:59.30 | Henryk | hmm, no idea |
| 16:59.39 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AE560.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:00.20 | thomasg | the config should be correct, the files are on the mirror, the packages files are ok (I guess). I have really no clue what's wrong |
| 17:01.12 | Henryk | thomasg: oh, all the existing files end in -feed.conf. could that be required? i don't know ipkg enough |
| 17:03.27 | thomasg | hm, don't know. but the packages I try to install are found - but the dependencies do not get resolved |
| 17:03.44 | Kero | thomasg: deps should be on packages, not on files. (but maybe I misread you) |
| 17:04.01 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 17:04.36 | thomasg | Kero: that's right, but to get them resolved, they must have an entry in the "Packages"-file |
| 17:04.52 | *** part/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 17:04.57 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:05.06 | Kero | myeah, you mirror, you don't create your own ipkgs |
| 17:05.51 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r3134 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/s3c2410-pwm.patch: Update include regs-timer.h from plat-s3c |
| 17:06.32 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r3135 10/branches/src/target/kernel/2.6.23.x/patches/ (gta02-leds.patch series): Add support for leds on gta02 |
| 17:06.47 | Kero | thomasg: one src/gz per file? just a thought, I do not really expect that to work |
| 17:07.40 | Henryk | yeah, the pre-existing feeds have one line per file |
| 17:08.36 | thomasg | what exactly do you mean? |
| 17:09.45 | Dunedan | Does somebody know a good document which describes the properties and differences of different sim-card series? |
| 17:10.49 | *** join/#openmoko dflores (n=dflores@dips01.vmix.com) |
| 17:12.16 | Kero | you have three lines in http://gstaedtner.net/openmoko/thomasg.conf |
| 17:12.18 | *** join/#openmoko lostgeek (n=aschenba@p50866192.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:16.09 | xyzzy_bill | How long does make openmoko-devel-image take to run? |
| 17:16.33 | xyzzy_bill | I'm only asking because after 30min, it says "NOTE: Running task 139 of 4837" |
| 17:16.47 | Henryk | xyzzy_bill: expect something along the line of 8 to 12 hours |
| 17:16.57 | Henryk | ok, leaving now for dinner, bye |
| 17:17.07 | xyzzy_bill | Seriously? Cripes! |
| 17:17.10 | gmaxwell | xyzzy_bill: Where are the instructions for setting up the crosscompile enviroment? |
| 17:17.23 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 17:17.33 | gmaxwell | I'll see how fast an 8 core xeon box with oddles of ram can do it.. ;) |
| 17:17.36 | xyzzy_bill | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile |
| 17:17.45 | CM | xyzzy_bill: What kind of comp do you have? |
| 17:18.10 | CM | I think roh said it took around 6h to build on his, and that's the fastest I've heard |
| 17:18.26 | xyzzy_bill | CM: It's a rockin 2GHz Core Duo Dell Insprion 9400. However, I am doing a step that probably isn't needed. |
| 17:18.39 | xyzzy_bill | CM: I'm doing the "Updating the environment" sectiono |
| 17:18.51 | thomasg | Kero: yes, what's wrong about that? |
| 17:19.17 | guaqua | xyzzy_bill: you'll profit from adding -j4 to the gcc flags |
| 17:19.19 | *** join/#openmoko white_gecko (i=natanael@atas1.theol.uni-leipzig.de) |
| 17:19.36 | *** part/#openmoko white_gecko (i=natanael@atas1.theol.uni-leipzig.de) |
| 17:19.47 | xyzzy_bill | Guaqua: Yes, I read that. Shouldn't I use -j2 instead (its a Core Duo) |
| 17:20.04 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 17:20.14 | PBeck | hi |
| 17:20.18 | guaqua | -j4 might be faster... |
| 17:20.21 | tuukkah | use -j2 on single-core |
| 17:20.32 | thomasg | my core2quad takes about 2.5 hours for a bitbake openmoko-devel-image from scratch (-j5) |
| 17:20.33 | guaqua | it's about processes and how the scheduler handles threading |
| 17:20.48 | *** join/#openmoko kumpera (n=rodrigo@c91520b2.virtua.com.br) |
| 17:21.13 | tuukkah | guaqua, also the io-bound vs. cpu-bound stages |
| 17:21.13 | CM | xyzzy_bill: To have ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" in my build/conf/local.conf saves me about 1h on glibc |
| 17:21.17 | *** part/#openmoko dflores (n=dflores@dips01.vmix.com) |
| 17:21.27 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3136 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta02-core.patch pcf50633.patch): GTA02: implement USB battery charging control using pcf50633 |
| 17:21.37 | CM | thomasg: Wow, that's quick :D |
| 17:21.50 | Kero | thomasg: nothing, I think. I only notice a single line per /etc/ipkg/*feed.conf |
| 17:21.51 | guaqua | tuukkah: true |
| 17:22.23 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 17:22.46 | xyzzy_bill | CM: Thanks. So, in total, I'm adding: ENABLE_BINARY_LOCALE_GENERATION = "0" |
| 17:22.46 | xyzzy_bill | PARALLEL_MAKE = "-j 4" |
| 17:22.46 | xyzzy_bill | BB_NUMBER_THREADS = "4" |
| 17:23.07 | xyzzy_bill | To the same file, (build/conf/local.conf)? |
| 17:24.28 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@87-194-105-11.bethere.co.uk) |
| 17:25.03 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03laforge * r3137 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta01-backlight.patch gta01-vibrator.patch): |
| 17:25.03 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Modify GTA01 vibrator and backlight driver to work on top of new s3c2410 generic pwm code |
| 17:25.04 | CIA-23 | openmoko: WARNING: this is untested and mainly just committed so shoragan can resolve |
| 17:25.04 | CIA-23 | openmoko: conflicts with his 2.6.23 work. |
| 17:25.05 | CIA-23 | openmoko: If you're bumping OE's srcrev for the kernel beyond this commit, please make sure that |
| 17:25.07 | CIA-23 | openmoko: the vibrator and backlight control has been tested on GTA01Bv4! |
| 17:25.15 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 17:25.37 | SpeedEvil | Noodly be his name. |
| 17:25.48 | CM | xyzzy_bill: Yes :) |
| 17:27.35 | xyzzy_bill | Here's a super-lame question: What IRC client do you guys tend to prefer? I'm using GAIM, but having trouble with the sound. |
| 17:27.54 | gmaxwell | I use xchat. |
| 17:28.40 | xyzzy_bill | gmaxwell: Thanks, I'll try it out. |
| 17:28.50 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 17:28.59 | *** join/#openmoko TobiX (i=tobias@zoidberg.org) |
| 17:30.39 | *** join/#openmoko xyzzy_bill_ (n=bill@adsl-065-005-192-157.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:31.05 | *** part/#openmoko xyzzy_bill (n=bill@adsl-065-005-192-157.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:31.19 | *** join/#openmoko xyzzy_bill_ (n=bill@adsl-065-005-192-157.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:32.31 | ScaredyCat | sound ? |
| 17:32.40 | ScaredyCat | in irc ! |
| 17:32.43 | ScaredyCat | n00b |
| 17:33.39 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 17:33.44 | *** join/#openmoko xyzzy_bill (n=bill@adsl-065-005-192-157.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 17:33.45 | CM | Hehe |
| 17:33.58 | CM | xyzzy_bill: I like irssi a lot |
| 17:34.28 | CM | irssi and screen on some remote server is hard to beat |
| 17:34.47 | guaqua | s/hard/impossible |
| 17:35.13 | CM | guaqua: I've been using it for 5 years or so, and still not found anything better |
| 17:35.13 | viq | Especially if you add to the combo bitlbee, and maybe some plugins, for example for SILC ;) |
| 17:35.27 | guaqua | CM: several years here :) |
| 17:41.10 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 17:41.41 | CM | BitchX has a better name though ;) |
| 17:41.55 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 17:44.16 | CM | Guess the ROAD S101 isn't complete vapourware after all: http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/10/09/oedem-2007-day-4/ |
| 17:47.30 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 17:49.09 | thomasg | CM: I'll believe it if I see it :) |
| 17:49.25 | thomasg | I guess it was 3 years ago, when I first heard about it |
| 17:49.50 | thomasg | and 2 years ago when they said it would cost more than 1500USD |
| 17:50.19 | CM | thomasg: Well, we can hope FIC steals the design and adds a better lcd ;) |
| 17:50.48 | thomasg | hehe |
| 17:50.58 | thomasg | I don't really like the design, but I love the keyboard-design |
| 17:51.38 | thomasg | but the display is OK, my nokia 7710 has the same resolution and size |
| 17:51.58 | CM | It was mainly the keyboard I was thinking of too |
| 17:51.59 | abraxa_ | They sure need to do some graphics design to get this thing out the door... |
| 17:54.01 | thomasg | yes, the UI is really ugly |
| 17:54.36 | thomasg | the nokia 7710 has a nice UI (imho), but its extremely slow :( |
| 18:01.44 | CM | abraxa_: I can't connect to my neo with minicom.. :( |
| 18:01.47 | juri_ | i like the lcars UI for it. feels much more technical. |
| 18:01.56 | juri_ | its also much easier on the eyes. |
| 18:02.33 | ScaredyCat | that looks like a nice device.. |
| 18:02.55 | ScaredyCat | juri_: you mean for the 770 ? not the 7710 ? |
| 18:03.06 | ScaredyCat | (road s101 looks nice I mean) |
| 18:04.42 | thomasg | ScaredyCat: there's also a lcars theme for the 7710 |
| 18:05.03 | ScaredyCat | s/here/her/ |
| 18:05.18 | thomasg | she can be glad, that it's a p910i and not a p990i :) |
| 18:05.22 | ScaredyCat | ahh.. not as trekkie as a 770 with it though |
| 18:05.33 | thomasg | why? |
| 18:05.36 | ScaredyCat | yeah, i hear the 990i is a sack of shit |
| 18:05.47 | thomasg | they 7710 is pretty trekkie :) |
| 18:06.22 | thomasg | but of course it's not as black and shaped as the original communicator |
| 18:06.43 | juri_ | scaredy: yepyep. |
| 18:06.50 | juri_ | whats the 7710? a phone? :P |
| 18:06.54 | thomasg | yes |
| 18:06.58 | juri_ | who needs that? :) |
| 18:07.03 | thomasg | basically the 770 in small + phone :) |
| 18:07.10 | thomasg | and with symbian instead of linux |
| 18:07.15 | ScaredyCat | if my laptop went any slower I think I'd start travelling back in time |
| 18:07.18 | juri_ | ah. pointless. :) |
| 18:07.37 | thomasg | I'd like to see openmoko on it :) |
| 18:07.48 | thomasg | bit the 200 mhz ARM would be way to slow |
| 18:07.50 | thomasg | *but |
| 18:09.42 | juri_ | openmoko needs more devs. i'd like to be one, but i've already got so *many* projects... |
| 18:10.02 | juri_ | openmosix.. xrdp.. qemu.. fai.. my mini-distros.. now wifidog... |
| 18:10.30 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=fredsiba@p549531FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:10.51 | juri_ | i just don't know when to put a project down... GNU GIFT, trac... |
| 18:11.21 | juri_ | a set of video cam drivers.. a wifi driver... |
| 18:11.29 | juri_ | tintin++... |
| 18:12.48 | CM | Ah, mud.. :D |
| 18:13.14 | juri_ | cm: i don't mud. i used it to run the walmart network. :) |
| 18:14.15 | CM | Heh, ok. |
| 18:15.39 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@gateway.drzeus.cx) |
| 18:20.15 | Writchie | what's with this build failure on webkit for last few days? |
| 18:20.32 | *** join/#openmoko Tronic_ (i=tronic@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe30fa00-139.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:20.33 | Mek | when I removed some files it builded fine... |
| 18:21.12 | Writchie | ok i'll try a make clean |
| 18:23.07 | CM | Writchie: |
| 18:23.09 | CM | Wait |
| 18:23.30 | CM | Writchie: Wich error? Is it the i18n or the main.cpp error? |
| 18:23.49 | Writchie | standby |
| 18:24.17 | Writchie | CM: main |
| 18:24.25 | CM | Ok, then do bitbake -c rebuild qmake2-native icu; bitbake -c rebuild webkit-gtk |
| 18:24.37 | CM | No need to rebuild everything :) |
| 18:24.56 | Writchie | CM: tx |
| 18:25.12 | CM | I don't know why that works, but zecke told me to do it and it fixed the build for me :) |
| 18:27.10 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p54AF7EFC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:29.01 | *** join/#openmoko guri (n=guri@77-100-76-243.cable.ubr04.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:30.10 | guri | Hi. I literally just received my Neo1973 and I'm at a loss as to which image I should be flashing it with.... |
| 18:30.22 | SpeedEvil | "personal effects: One yellow metal ring intact on left ring finger, one dildo" |
| 18:30.24 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 18:30.26 | SpeedEvil | mischan |
| 18:30.34 | guri | hahahah |
| 18:30.42 | SpeedEvil | http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/1008072scuba1.html |
| 18:30.50 | SpeedEvil | (mostly worksafe) |
| 18:31.06 | guri | um. so "brand new neo" |
| 18:31.51 | Writchie | SpeedEvil: another darwin candidate methinks |
| 18:32.02 | SpeedEvil | yep. |
| 18:32.18 | gmaxwell | guri, No image will magically work as a normal phone yet.. So you're probably best off running the lastest image available. |
| 18:32.42 | CM | guri: I'm running a build from today right now |
| 18:33.05 | guri | gmaxwell, thank you. yes, I kind of got that far, I was just wondering as I need to match Kernel and FS versions yes? |
| 18:33.19 | gmaxwell | it's not an issue now. |
| 18:33.23 | CM | guri: No guarantees of anything since I built it myself, and "works for me is all I can say about it" |
| 18:33.44 | CM | guri: http://claesmogren.com/~cm/neo/2007.2/ |
| 18:33.55 | gmaxwell | I'm running OpenMoko-qtopia-image-glibc-ipk-P1-September-Snapshot-20071007-fic-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 + svnr2937-r3-fic-gta01.bin |
| 18:34.00 | guri | i'm not after a working fone. this is a personal quest :) |
| 18:34.19 | Writchie | then this is the right place ;) |
| 18:34.24 | CM | guri: Then build your own with the makefile.. ;) |
| 18:34.38 | guri | I work for France Telecom in Device Management, but am so bogged down with Powerpoint these days that I lose all my tech skillzors |
| 18:34.39 | xyzzy_bill | Geeze... I'm in total geek land.... yes! |
| 18:34.52 | CM | But maybe fun to flash some new image first to have something to play with for the next 8h or so |
| 18:35.00 | guri | I have an image running in QEMU as per instructions....just don't want to brick my phone |
| 18:35.07 | guri | having psent 300 odd pounds on it |
| 18:35.12 | gmaxwell | you won't brick the phone flashing kernel and root fs. |
| 18:35.18 | CM | guri: As long as you don't touch u-boot there's no danger at all |
| 18:35.23 | gmaxwell | Only bricking risk is with the u-boot. |
| 18:35.30 | guri | cool. that was what was freaking me out |
| 18:35.33 | Writchie | not true |
| 18:35.34 | gmaxwell | And there is no need to flash uboot on current phones. |
| 18:35.38 | Writchie | beware nand erase |
| 18:35.40 | CM | Stick to dfu-util -a 3 and 5 ;) |
| 18:36.03 | guri | now to see if this Ubuntu install is working with USB |
| 18:36.20 | Writchie | guri: all but dfu-util works |
| 18:36.24 | CM | guri: And don't touch the uboot env either (I messed up my partition table doing that) |
| 18:36.38 | Writchie | guri: mybad - in virtual machines that is. |
| 18:36.45 | Writchie | guri: all works on real hardware |
| 18:37.07 | guri | Writchie, thanks. will give it a go in a bit.....now to get my daughter to go to bed so I can mess |
| 18:37.29 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=fobos@213.145.101.2) |
| 18:37.34 | cb22 | guri, shame, let your daughter stay awake |
| 18:37.43 | guri | I will definitely be back! This is the most helpful channel ever |
| 18:38.07 | gmaxwell | okay, why does make openmoko-devel-image fail randomly?!@# |
| 18:38.20 | CM | gmaxwell: To build or to boot? |
| 18:38.23 | gmaxwell | build |
| 18:38.27 | cb22 | gmaxwell, have you made the sacrifice and prayed to the gods twice? |
| 18:38.31 | CM | Usually webkit breaks |
| 18:38.49 | guri | once I get something up. Thanks again! |
| 18:38.51 | ozarka | Writchie: Why beware nand erase? |
| 18:38.51 | gmaxwell | it's failing at random points when I run it again it gets a bit further and fails someplace else. :) |
| 18:38.59 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:39.00 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 18:39.00 | ozarka | I thought it was necessary? |
| 18:39.07 | Writchie | it will do exactly that to the entire flash including u-boot |
| 18:39.13 | CM | ozarka: Remeber all arguments |
| 18:39.28 | ozarka | so nand erase rootfs is OK |
| 18:39.37 | Writchie | ozarka: yes |
| 18:39.39 | ozarka | but nand erase no args gives me a brick? |
| 18:39.43 | CM | Yes, but it's not needed any more with newer u-boots |
| 18:39.47 | Writchie | u got it |
| 18:40.07 | Writchie | you need to do it right to get your newer u-boot |
| 18:40.12 | ozarka | How do I know how newer my uboot is? |
| 18:40.30 | ozarka | (I haven't updated it since I got the device in Aug) |
| 18:40.41 | ljp | it has the version if you hold Aux and power on |
| 18:40.53 | Writchie | then you need to do the nand erase rootfs |
| 18:40.59 | Writchie | IIRC |
| 18:41.00 | ljp | we got a neo that had a uboot dated from may |
| 18:41.09 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 18:41.17 | CM | What is the last known safe version of uboot? |
| 18:41.20 | ljp | i dont think youneed to nande erare rootfs if you flash a new uboot |
| 18:41.42 | CM | I'm still using the one that came with the 2007.08 release |
| 18:41.43 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus666 (n=fobos@213.145.101.2) |
| 18:41.47 | ljp | i flashed yesterdays, from scaredycats feed |
| 18:41.52 | ozarka | I'm scared to flash my uboot. |
| 18:42.07 | Writchie | ljp: you flashed a new u-boot from the feed? |
| 18:42.08 | cb22 | ozarka, where are you? |
| 18:42.15 | ozarka | Dallas, TX. |
| 18:42.21 | *** part/#openmoko kaje (n=kjkeefe@12.170.196.178) |
| 18:42.31 | cb22 | i'm sure there must be one person in your area with a debug board |
| 18:42.33 | ljp | Writchie: yes |
| 18:42.44 | CM | ozarka: I did flash a bad uboot once, and that destroyed my uboot_env and it's been trouble ever since. (Don't have a debugboard) |
| 18:43.29 | ljp | actually, flashed 3 neos wth the same uboot |
| 18:43.33 | Writchie | with the lack of build stability here i'd be reluctantly to flash a u-boot or use a dfu-util not confirmed as working |
| 18:44.08 | cb22 | Writchie, maybe trying them out in qemu |
| 18:44.12 | Writchie | that is without a debug board handy |
| 18:44.20 | ozarka | Now I have to be scared of dfu-util! |
| 18:44.34 | ljp | this one worked for me-> u-boot-gta01bv4-1.2.0+git3e66c078003607a7d1d214c15a5f262bc1b4032f+svn20070829-r2.bin |
| 18:44.38 | cb22 | ozarka, shouldv'e waited for a 02 :) |
| 18:44.49 | cb22 | they have some anti brick not writable nor flash on them |
| 18:45.07 | CM | ljp: Does that one have the usb-console on by default when you start with aux? |
| 18:45.11 | ozarka | Yeah, but I wanted to be the first kid on my block with a Neo. :-) |
| 18:45.25 | CM | ljp: I need it to rebuild my uboot_env partition table.. |
| 18:45.25 | Writchie | u-boot images should be handled like the bios on your PC |
| 18:45.57 | ljp | CM: has 'Set console to USB' if thats what you mean. |
| 18:46.08 | CM | ljp: As a default option? |
| 18:46.13 | ljp | yes |
| 18:46.18 | ljp | dont know if it works |
| 18:46.28 | CM | Ah, great.. The one I have now only have Boot and Factory reset |
| 18:47.03 | gmaxwell | Man. We are so gonna 0wn those fruity phone bastards. We even had bricking before them! |
| 18:47.43 | |R | hahah |
| 18:47.48 | |R | ~grab gmaxwell |
| 18:47.51 | |R | if there is such a bot here |
| 18:47.52 | |R | :P |
| 18:48.44 | ozarka | Bots must be slacking off. |
| 18:48.51 | CM | |R: Not grab, but lots of other things |
| 18:48.59 | CM | ~fish |R |
| 18:49.00 | apt | ACTION slaps |R around with a large trout |
| 18:49.01 | ozarka | At one time, there were at least three that would have responded. :-) |
| 18:49.03 | |R | hehe :) |
| 18:49.18 | CM | ~prod ozarka |
| 18:49.19 | apt | ACTION zaps ozarka with a high voltage cattle prod |
| 18:49.27 | mwester | ~lart CM |
| 18:49.27 | apt | drops a baby grand on CM |
| 18:49.52 | gmaxwell | CM, do you have a dev board? |
| 18:49.58 | CM | gmaxwell: No.. |
| 18:50.04 | gmaxwell | CM: brave man... |
| 18:50.07 | ozarka | ~reverse tobami |
| 18:50.17 | CM | gmaxwell: But I already have a half-bricked Neo, so no worries |
| 18:51.53 | cb22 | CM, half bricked? |
| 18:52.07 | *** join/#openmoko minime (n=minime@v26038.topnetworks.de) |
| 18:52.24 | CM | cb22: I've managed to break the partition table |
| 18:52.37 | *** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@41.226.251.225) |
| 18:52.37 | CM | cb22: But I can still boot with the Factory Reset option |
| 18:52.48 | cb22 | cant you just flash it? |
| 18:52.48 | CM | Never normal boot.. |
| 18:53.04 | CM | No, the uboot_env contains the bad-blocks table |
| 18:53.05 | Writchie | CM: are you original BB tables in tack |
| 18:53.14 | CM | Writchie: No |
| 18:53.19 | Writchie | ouch |
| 18:53.25 | CM | Writchie: I got a bad uboot once.. |
| 18:53.44 | Writchie | what about the one at the end of the device - are you sure its not readable |
| 18:53.55 | CM | And then when I flashed my kernel it overwrote the uboot_env |
| 18:54.06 | CM | Writchie: Hmm.. Don't know about that one. How can I get to it? |
| 18:54.14 | cb22 | tsk, should've backed up :) |
| 18:54.18 | CM | Anyway, the partitiontable can be rebuilt.. But I need serial console |
| 18:54.23 | Writchie | CM: IIRC there is a backup copy at the physical end of the device |
| 18:54.46 | Writchie | partition table != bad block table |
| 18:54.52 | Writchie | IIRC |
| 18:55.04 | CM | Wow, nice.. |
| 18:55.14 | CM | The uboot ljp recommended worked nicely |
| 18:56.01 | *** join/#openmoko santaclaus (n=fobos@213.145.101.2) |
| 18:56.09 | Writchie | we need a utility to back up the bbt from a device |
| 18:56.23 | Writchie | the factory bad blocks cannot ever be recovered if they are lost |
| 18:56.56 | abraxa_ | CM: Did you get yours fixed? |
| 18:56.56 | Writchie | using them can result in flaky operation |
| 18:57.01 | ljp | IMHO, that should be part of dfu-util |
| 18:57.22 | Writchie | dfu-util seems a bit flaky to me |
| 18:57.40 | CM | abraxa_: No.. I can't get usb-console working |
| 18:57.40 | Writchie | why doesn't it work through vmware |
| 18:58.02 | CM | ljp: I agree |
| 18:58.45 | abraxa_ | CM: I wonder if there's a tool to debug u-boot through a running linux.... e.g. altering the u-boot env from there |
| 18:59.32 | CM | I've connected with mincom before it went bad, but now I just can't get access to the console.. Hmm.. |
| 19:00.03 | CM | I have the set console to USB option in the boot menu, but it does nothing :/ |
| 19:00.28 | Writchie | what device shows when you plug in the usb? |
| 19:01.44 | CM | Writchie: At boot? I do get the /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 19:02.42 | Writchie | CM: but you can't talk to it like with cu? |
| 19:03.22 | CM | Writchie: Nope.. |
| 19:03.33 | Writchie | what error? |
| 19:03.37 | CM | Can't find cu for gentoo btw |
| 19:03.42 | CM | I've only used minicom |
| 19:04.08 | CM | But the problem is that when I select console to usb in the uboot menu it just returns to the menu |
| 19:04.26 | CM | Oh well, factory reset still boots the kernel and rootfs |
| 19:04.32 | xyzzy_bill | I've got the qemu up, just playing with apps... A 4-function calculator ?!? I was insulted when I saw the dumb calculator built into my old iPhone - does Steve think his users are too dumb for a scientific calc? |
| 19:04.55 | Writchie | xyzzy_bill: wellllll |
| 19:05.09 | gmaxwell | xyzzy_bill, Say "Fruit phone" please. The other name ShallNotBeSpoken. ;) |
| 19:05.29 | xyzzy_bill | Sorry... s/iPhone/Fruit phone/g |
| 19:05.32 | gmaxwell | I should copy the gnu octave binaries over from my zaurus and see if they just run. :) |
| 19:05.34 | Writchie | CM: btw cu is part of UUCP |
| 19:05.46 | Fatal | ring ring ring ring ring bananaphone! |
| 19:05.54 | zash` | rPhone! |
| 19:06.04 | zash` | arr!-phone |
| 19:06.33 | CM | Writchie: Hmm.. Can't find that either. I'll look around |
| 19:06.34 | *** join/#openmoko bcollins (n=bcollins@collinsap1.phunnypharm.org) |
| 19:07.10 | Writchie | CM: cu is pretty simple IIRC - you can probably just build it from UUCP sources |
| 19:09.28 | *** join/#openmoko peje (n=peje@12-243.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 19:10.00 | CM | Writchie: Ahh.. It's called taylor-uucp in gentoo |
| 19:12.58 | peje | ah an other gentoo lover out there |
| 19:13.54 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@85.233.59.8.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 19:14.09 | CM | peje: There's several here. Even seen seemant ;) (although he's not saying much) |
| 19:15.27 | xyzzy_bill | Sorry for more stupid newbie questions, but how do you get out of an app (like Black Box) when running qemu? Is there a "Home" key? |
| 19:16.23 | CM | xyzzy_bill: Either click on Today in the menu |
| 19:16.54 | CM | xyzzy_bill: I mean up left on the panel, or press the "power" button (Enter in qemu?) |
| 19:17.09 | CM | Also, hold in the power button or AUX to get some menus |
| 19:17.59 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=fredsiba@p5495011D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:19.24 | peje | anyone workint on motorola a780 and openmoko? |
| 19:19.42 | CM | peje: Yes, the Ångström builds |
| 19:20.45 | peje | yes I did seen, but don't know if its already time to test, or better if I could help there |
| 19:22.22 | CM | I haven't heard much the last month. (Since http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/angstrom-running-on-an-motorola-a780 ) |
| 19:23.42 | *** join/#openmoko intarwebz (n=intarweb@unaffiliated/intarwebz) |
| 19:23.46 | *** join/#openmoko unarzna (i=hk69690@node1.cluster.cs.uta.fi) |
| 19:25.33 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001c104ae594.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 19:31.44 | seemant | CM: i don't say much, it's true |
| 19:31.53 | seemant | just waiting waiting for GTA02 |
| 19:32.03 | ljp | anyone knows which alsamixer slider controls the gsm mic volume level? |
| 19:32.44 | CM | seemant: :) |
| 19:34.44 | CM | ljp: The only slider I can think of is ALC Capture Target |
| 19:35.16 | CM | Most of my channels are muted in alsamixer |
| 19:39.35 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8CE2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:40.55 | ljp | CM: thanks |
| 19:42.29 | *** join/#openmoko cb22_ (n=cb22@dsl-245-161-92.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 19:46.40 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
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| 19:52.12 | GoGi | MokoMakefile fails on me with this error: http://rafb.net/p/1VUvAG22.html |
| 19:54.18 | xyzzy_bill | Hi, guys... now I'm trying to figure out what project I'm most interested in joining or starting. I see the project tree, but is there a roadmap from openmoko for core apps, like browser, phone/contacts/voicemail, application installer, and a music player? |
| 19:55.20 | abraxa_ | xyzzy_bill: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/applications/ shows you what's currently there - anything else is probably open |
| 19:55.43 | abraxa_ | "open" as in "available to be started" |
| 19:56.44 | GoGi | I have taken the error from the logfile now. It is more readable: http://rafb.net/p/h6459045.html |
| 19:57.54 | GoGi | That's obviously also wrong |
| 19:57.57 | GoGi | hmm |
| 19:58.29 | abraxa_ | GoGi: See http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=747 |
| 19:58.43 | *** join/#openmoko LeRrA (n=lerra@h-91-126-56-52.wholesale.rp80.se) |
| 20:00.57 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-162-36.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:03.26 | GoGi | abraxa_: thanks |
| 20:03.43 | *** join/#openmoko madmarkus (n=markus@ip-141-31-178-166.selfnet.de) |
| 20:04.09 | GoGi | I have noticed a strange similarity between gentoo ebuild files and .bb files. Which came from where? |
| 20:04.27 | abraxa_ | Yes, bitbake is based on portage |
| 20:07.44 | ScaredyCat | s/portage/garbage/ |
| 20:07.58 | *** join/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CDCA2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:08.13 | CM | ScaredyCat: Hehe.. Don't be so negative :P |
| 20:08.35 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but which am I being nnegative about :) |
| 20:09.02 | ozarka | Is this the time of the day where we bash bitbake? |
| 20:09.41 | CM | ozarka: Don't forget to bash monotone too ;) |
| 20:09.42 | ScaredyCat | bitbake bashing time is any time you like.. |
| 20:10.27 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-75-238.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:10.27 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F15A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:10.28 | russellb | like ... #!/bin/bash , bitbake ? |
| 20:10.44 | russellb | sorry.. that was bad. |
| 20:11.22 | ScaredyCat | yes, |
| 20:12.15 | viq | Why not bash bash while you're at it? ;) |
| 20:14.32 | russellb | but i like bash :( |
| 20:15.13 | viq | bash what? ;) |
| 20:17.57 | GoGi | when qemu is run with -kernel image.bin, does this mean that qemu directly loads the kernel image from that file and runs it? |
| 20:18.01 | ScaredyCat | bash bitbake |
| 20:19.39 | *** join/#openmoko fgau (n=fgau@pD953AC44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 20:37.32 | *** part/#openmoko vato2 (n=vatoz@rb5db91.net.upc.cz) |
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| 20:40.44 | *** part/#openmoko Risto (n=christop@p508CDCA2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:51.57 | taneli | GoGi: according to man page, yes |
| 20:55.08 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__27 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-cb353db982749014) |
| 20:55.54 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A579A5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:56.20 | GoGi | taneli: If I understand this correctly u-boot and the kernel are also written to the flash. Are they completely ignored when using qemu? And how does the external kernel know where the root filesystem begins? |
| 21:00.05 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@vasut.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 21:00.27 | CM | GoGi: I'm not sure of the details, but basically it expects it to be at a certain place, but it has offsets for the bad blocks. Hence the different partition tables on all Neos, stored in the uboot_env |
| 21:01.05 | GoGi | the kernel can read uboot_env then? |
| 21:01.20 | CM | I think uboot gives the options to the kernel |
| 21:01.23 | CM | As arguments |
| 21:01.42 | CM | But you should ask someone who knows more, or maybe there's some details in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/U-boot |
| 21:04.16 | GoGi | It is strange, because if qemu bypasses u-boot, it can't pass those parameters |
| 21:04.37 | *** join/#openmoko vittor (n=vittor@unaffiliated/vittor) |
| 21:04.48 | Mek | I don't think qemu does bypass u-boot... |
| 21:05.27 | Mek | at least for me qemu does just run u-boot |
| 21:05.57 | gmaxwell | woo.. build done. |
| 21:06.20 | GoGi | Mek: but you are starting it with -kernel xxx.bin? |
| 21:08.13 | *** part/#openmoko vittor (n=vittor@unaffiliated/vittor) |
| 21:08.28 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 21:10.36 | Mek | GoGi: I'm starting it with mokomakefile with "make run-qemu", not sure what that does... |
| 21:10.57 | Mek | that does seem to use -kernal foo.bin yes... |
| 21:11.33 | GoGi | -kernel openmoko/openmoko-kernel.bin, but also -mtdblock openmoko/openmoko-flash.image |
| 21:11.42 | GoGi | but the kernel should be in openmoko-flash.image as well |
| 21:12.01 | GoGi | so why is -kernel needed, especially, when u-boot is not bypassed |
| 21:12.51 | xyzzy_bill | Hey guys... one more dumb question: What do you think of the noise about gPhone? |
| 21:13.02 | xyzzy_bill | Any good rumors? |
| 21:13.22 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
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| 21:13.36 | *** part/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484D94F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:14.09 | abraxa_ | xyzzy_bill: You can bet your butt that it will be a closed platform because google seemingly wants to put ads on it - which means they don't want anyone to remove them |
| 21:14.34 | abraxa_ | With the gPhone being a closed platform it's completely uninteresting for me |
| 21:15.10 | xyzzy_bill | abraxa_: I'm sure you're right. It would be uninteresting for me as well. How come the minimo web browser isn't in the image by default? |
| 21:15.33 | xyzzy_bill | Does it blow out of the 64meg? |
| 21:15.49 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=cb22@dsl-245-161-92.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 21:15.50 | abraxa_ | No idea |
| 21:16.47 | xyzzy_bill | Also, the "Today" app looks cool, but it doesn't seem as nice as a traditional array of icons/folders for application launching. Is the old "Home" history? |
| 21:17.16 | zash` | xyzzy_bill: the +button? |
| 21:18.29 | xyzzy_bill | zash: I just ordered my neo, so I'm just running qemu. What do I type to emulate +button? |
| 21:18.49 | abraxa_ | Well, the list can easily be replaced by another GTK+ widget - e.g. an icon view |
| 21:18.57 | zash` | xyzzy_bill: in the today-screen click the +-tab att the bottom |
| 21:19.03 | abraxa_ | So this could easily be configurable |
| 21:19.28 | xyzzy_bill | ok |
| 21:19.47 | CM | xyzzy_bill: About minimo, I think the people involved just doesn't like it much ;) |
| 21:20.07 | CM | The browser will be webkit based |
| 21:21.31 | xyzzy_bill | Ah... and that's from OS-X? |
| 21:22.06 | zash` | the same as in safari, yes |
| 21:22.17 | zash` | that is a fork of KHTML |
| 21:22.23 | xyzzy_bill | Got it. |
| 21:22.50 | CM | It's definitely having a lot more momentum than gecko at the moment |
| 21:25.32 | zash` | lm_tx: 3D enhance On. |
| 21:25.34 | zash` | woot |
| 21:26.38 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-182-147.cust.broadway.se) |
| 21:27.29 | Mek | hmm.. the only way to shut down a frozen phone is to remove the battery? |
| 21:27.49 | Writchie | pretty much like any other crashed phone |
| 21:27.57 | SpeedEvil | blend. |
| 21:28.09 | zash` | it will? |
| 21:28.29 | SpeedEvil | With a large enough blender, anything will. |
| 21:29.23 | zash` | THE SUPERBLENDINATOR |
| 21:30.22 | cb22 | well* |
| 21:30.27 | cb22 | mmm, lithium soup |
| 21:30.37 | Mek | don't breath :P |
| 21:30.50 | Writchie | they even cook themselves |
| 21:30.58 | cb22 | heh |
| 21:30.58 | zash` | do not apply water |
| 21:31.48 | CM | The iPhone realy blended well.. But the evil black smoke got out |
| 21:33.15 | Robot101 | that was comedy :) |
| 21:33.46 | zash` | "How do I put the black smocke back in the phone?" :D |
| 21:34.27 | *** join/#openmoko KenSentMe (n=jeroen@kensentme.xs4all.nl) |
| 21:35.54 | gmaxwell | CM: fruit phone. |
| 21:38.01 | xyzzy_bill | So I see the core apps: browser, music player, phone/contacts/voicemail, and an icon that looks like e-mail. A photo album is also key. Will all these be stable in the production release? |
| 21:38.20 | abraxa_ | xyzzy_bill: Define "production release" |
| 21:38.40 | xyzzy_bill | The Xmas release |
| 21:38.48 | xyzzy_bill | For the masses |
| 21:39.53 | abraxa_ | GTA02 release on Christmas won't be the consumer release |
| 21:40.02 | xyzzy_bill | Ok. |
| 21:40.29 | abraxa_ | I just see no way to get everything done on the software side till then |
| 21:41.02 | viq | abraxa_: what will it be then, and which one will be the consumer release? |
| 21:41.41 | abraxa_ | It'll be what GTA01 is now - dev preview for those who really want it |
| 21:42.22 | mjr | and gta02 whenever the software is ready will be the consumer one |
| 21:43.10 | viq | ah, so you can get gta02 and later update the software to have the "real thing"? |
| 21:44.33 | GoGi | there will be no gta03? |
| 21:44.46 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8CE2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:45.23 | mjr | not currently planned |
| 21:45.45 | mjr | at least publically |
| 21:46.54 | mjr | also, afaik this numbering scheme is for Neo1973, and one would think they'll not reinvent the model forever |
| 21:47.48 | abraxa_ | GoGi: There will be successors, just none are announced as of yet |
| 21:48.26 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@GMKLXVII.dsl.saunalahti.fi) |
| 21:48.39 | viq | <pure gossip>I heard work on some new models could be announced in december</pure gossip> |
| 21:48.42 | abraxa_ | viq: Yes |
| 21:48.55 | abraxa_ | (as about the upgradability) |
| 21:49.09 | khaije1 | pure gossip? |
| 21:49.34 | abraxa_ | viq: Actually, that was supposed to happen in September already ;) |
| 21:50.12 | viq | khaije1: read: "I think I heard someone say something about it, but I don't know how close to the project that preson is, and it could have changed multiple times since I heard it" ;) |
| 21:50.17 | khaije1 | i'd always heard no new models would be announced until the first consumer release |
| 21:50.38 | viq | abraxa_: well, yes, but that's newer gossip I have ;) |
| 21:50.40 | *** part/#openmoko xyzzy_bill (n=bill@adsl-065-005-192-157.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:50.53 | khaije1 | hahah excellent viq! |
| 21:51.04 | viq | Unless you have newer gossip and it WILL happen in September ;P |
| 21:51.23 | abraxa_ | viq: You're cheating! No fair! |
| 21:51.42 | khaije1 | i get all my gossip from my official sources in the future |
| 21:51.52 | khaije1 | so i'm covered ;-) |
| 21:52.06 | *** join/#openmoko a_thing_ (n=notroot@c-98-193-50-46.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:52.09 | Writchie | seems I remember january - yeah that's it - january - year to be determined later ;) |
| 21:53.20 | viq | Writchie: "a phone of the 21st century!" - they should manage in that time frame ;) |
| 21:54.05 | abraxa_ | viq: Not if google buys FIC, Inc. & OpenMoko, Inc. to release it as gPhone |
| 21:54.06 | abraxa_ | ;) |
| 21:54.12 | Writchie | seems i was going to use neo as a christmas present - deja vu - |
| 21:54.20 | ozarka | <impure gossip>OpenMoko is going to brick all our devices right after the next launch to force us to upgrade.</impure gossip> |
| 21:55.17 | viq | sorry, could not resist... but, er, gPhone, it'd better have a good vibrator... ;P |
| 21:55.32 | Writchie | jury is still out as to whether GTA02 will be better device overall all than GTA01 would have been. |
| 21:55.56 | ozarka | gPhone rumors are just silly. It will be called the betaPhone. |
| 21:56.05 | gmaxwell | Writchie, Why? |
| 21:56.13 | GoGi | Writchie: how? |
| 21:56.18 | Writchie | power consumption |
| 21:56.22 | zash` | didn't they establish that there is no gPhone |
| 21:56.24 | Writchie | gps chip |
| 21:56.26 | ozarka | And what does "would have been" mean? |
| 21:56.37 | viq | what about the GPS chip? |
| 21:56.38 | gmaxwell | ohh.. I'd presume the GPS could be shut off and the cpu downclocked though? |
| 21:56.39 | ozarka | Isnt' GTA01 already out? |
| 21:56.43 | Writchie | meaning had they just continued |
| 21:57.05 | ozarka | Is GTA02 that much of a departure? |
| 21:57.12 | Writchie | GTA02 caused a delay of many months |
| 21:57.25 | ozarka | Does this mean we're allowed to ask about GTA02 now that someone has mentioned it? |
| 21:57.29 | Writchie | well - it doesn't even appear to be frozen yet |
| 21:57.52 | GoGi | If the software is not done yet anyway, it can only be good to improve the hardware simultaneously |
| 21:57.52 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 21:58.17 | Writchie | except when the software isn't done because of work on the new hardware |
| 21:58.26 | GoGi | really? |
| 21:58.45 | ozarka | zash`: I think the gPhone rumors are pretty substantial. |
| 21:58.57 | Writchie | well look at all the advance since P1 shipped - |
| 21:59.31 | ozarka | Writchie: Was that sarcasm? Have there been advances? |
| 21:59.44 | Writchie | sarcasm |
| 22:00.03 | *** join/#openmoko kuyky (n=kuyky@84.90.165.129) |
| 22:00.08 | madmarkus | hi, I'm new to openmoko :-) ver nice, impressive project :D don't worry about the gPhone, you guy are great! |
| 22:00.38 | madmarkus | I just installed the latest snapsnot on my device (wich i've got for testing since today) |
| 22:01.12 | madmarkus | but, unfortunately, the touchscreen semms to be not working. is there any way of recalibrating or testing it? |
| 22:02.02 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z7843.z.pppool.de) |
| 22:02.14 | Henryk | madmarkus: tscal or xtscal or something like that |
| 22:02.30 | zash` | or ts_calbrate |
| 22:03.47 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.12.154) |
| 22:04.05 | *** join/#openmoko twistx (n=twistx@64.30.190.171) |
| 22:07.09 | Henryk | yeah, use the x one though, for x |
| 22:08.06 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador (n=Brescia@adsl-88-186.37-151.net24.it) |
| 22:09.08 | madmarkus | ts_calibrate semms to be good, but i get an calibration faild error :( |
| 22:09.08 | madmarkus | http://nopaste.info/b34fff346b.html |
| 22:10.54 | abraxa_ | madmarkus: Are you sure you're hitting the centers of the crosses? |
| 22:11.17 | abraxa_ | X and Y stay pretty much constant in your pastebin excerpt, which shouldn't be |
| 22:11.18 | madmarkus | yes |
| 22:11.28 | madmarkus | i'm sure :( |
| 22:11.50 | abraxa_ | Can you move the cursor at all? |
| 22:12.00 | abraxa_ | Try ts_test |
| 22:12.59 | madmarkus | no, i dont see an cursor in the normal screen, |
| 22:13.21 | madmarkus | with ts_test, as soon a i touch the screen with the pen, the cross disappears |
| 22:14.58 | abraxa_ | madmarkus: Hmm... makes me wonder if the hardware is broken |
| 22:15.03 | madmarkus | and i get a lot of lines like |
| 22:15.03 | madmarkus | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:15.03 | madmarkus | the -42 moves between -37 and -42, the -61 sometimes down to -63 and the 1 switches with 0.... |
| 22:15.09 | Henryk | madmarkus: ts_* are non-X11 applications accessing the framebuffer directly so you should at least quit x before using them |
| 22:15.33 | Henryk | (or, as i said, use xtscal while under x) |
| 22:17.31 | *** join/#openmoko Benoitb (n=Benoitb@86.76.66.39) |
| 22:18.19 | madmarkus | okay, i'll try to use xtscal under x ...after i remembered how to access |
| 22:18.25 | madmarkus | X from ssh :P |
| 22:18.56 | Henryk | DISPLAY=:0 xtscal |
| 22:20.50 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 22:22.18 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 22:25.01 | madmarkus | tahnk you, Henryk ;-) |
| 22:25.18 | madmarkus | but...i still get the error |
| 22:25.22 | madmarkus | root@fic-gta01:~$ DISPLAY=:0 xtscal |
| 22:25.22 | madmarkus | ts_calibrate: determinant is too small -- 0.000000 |
| 22:25.32 | madmarkus | i also tried another pen |
| 22:26.14 | *** part/#openmoko Benoitb (n=Benoitb@86.76.66.39) |
| 22:26.41 | Henryk | hmm, indeed, that doesn't look good |
| 22:27.07 | *** join/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dan@wsip-70-184-147-28.ga.at.cox.net) |
| 22:27.20 | madmarkus | bad new, does this mean that the hardware has an defect? |
| 22:27.30 | Henryk | best try to get hold of someone hardware-related at openmoko. maybe roh |
| 22:28.23 | madmarkus | hm, okay, thank you so much for your help ! |
| 22:28.46 | Henryk | that's the first time i have heard of such thing, so yeah |
| 22:29.34 | ozarka | madmarkus: Did you take the protective plastic cover off the screen? |
| 22:29.45 | ozarka | Not trying to be a smart ass. :-) |
| 22:30.19 | madmarkus | ozarka: yes, think so :) i dont see any edget, so i assume it is taken off ;-) |
| 22:30.41 | ozarka | Mine worked fine even with the protective plastic. |
| 22:31.27 | Henryk | so you took off the magic plastic that sealed in the magic vapor that would have made it work then! ;-) |
| 22:31.41 | Henryk | you let the magic invisible vapor out :) |
| 22:31.45 | ljp | zecke: ping |
| 22:32.45 | madmarkus | hm... /me tries to find a way to get some new magic vapor ;-) |
| 22:33.10 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@208.118.160.90) |
| 22:33.49 | ozarka | madmarkus: Have you just tried flashing with one image? |
| 22:34.19 | *** join/#openmoko berkus (n=berkus@87-119-191-142.tll.elisa.ee) |
| 22:39.07 | madmarkus | ozarka: with the old one, i didn't get any reaction from the pen as well. so i tried a pretty new one |
| 22:39.21 | madmarkus | (from yesterday) ;-) |
| 22:39.40 | madmarkus | do you think, i should try another one, maybe one of the official ones as well? |
| 22:39.54 | ozarka | Yikes. Sounds like you won (lost?) the hardware lottery. |
| 22:40.04 | ozarka | I don't think it could hurt to try other images. |
| 22:40.35 | ozarka | I've flashed mine with both official ones and qtopia. |
| 22:40.43 | ozarka | But I never had trouble with the touch screen. |
| 22:42.42 | madmarkus | allright, i think i'll try qtopia and a offical one tomorrow, it's time for some sleep now ;) thank you all very much :-) |
| 22:43.09 | Henryk | i don't think it's supposed to ouput "determinant too small" with any image or kernel |
| 22:43.46 | ozarka | Maybe "determinant too small" means "press harder". |
| 22:45.26 | Henryk | no, it would/should not register your press at all if you don't press hard enough |
| 22:47.07 | madmarkus | uhm |
| 22:47.13 | madmarkus | i tried it once again |
| 22:47.16 | madmarkus | same as befor |
| 22:47.22 | *** join/#openmoko zblach (n=zblach@bas2-windsor12-1088702972.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:47.38 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 22:47.53 | madmarkus | no error, even ts_calibrate give me now |
| 22:47.53 | madmarkus | Calibration constants: 2147483647 -12451840 24903680 23068672 0 0 65536 |
| 22:48.04 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@81.56.231.222) |
| 22:48.13 | Henryk | it's part of the calibration calculation, see http://www.koders.com/c/fid48DBC8EDA08CA3C822F7CF53C3F595B0B2DA2C0A.aspx |
| 22:48.20 | madmarkus | but, on the "desktop", i get no reaction from any thing i do with the pen |
| 22:48.55 | Henryk | try ts_test |
| 22:49.18 | Henryk | (yeah, it's not an x application, but don't care about that now :) |
| 22:49.40 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 22:50.10 | *** part/#openmoko ozarka (n=elineber@12.106.220.2) |
| 22:51.06 | madmarkus | same strage behavior as before |
| 22:51.13 | madmarkus | the cross disappears |
| 22:51.32 | madmarkus | the value on the console don't differ much while i move around on the display |
| 22:52.10 | Henryk | what do they say? |
| 22:52.31 | madmarkus | 1191875802.671484: -29960 352 0 |
| 22:52.31 | madmarkus | 1191875803.046533: -30340 352 1 |
| 22:52.49 | Henryk | yeah, that's most likely bogus. |
| 22:52.57 | Henryk | 1191977260.479027: 352 302 1 |
| 22:52.58 | Henryk | 1191977260.509040: 372 265 0 |
| 22:53.11 | madmarkus | hm damit |
| 22:53.29 | madmarkus | semms like the first coordinate is broken |
| 22:53.40 | Henryk | so best try to get hold of an openmoko hardware guy. I just can't say whether it's fastest to stay on IRC or send mail (and to which list) |
| 22:54.17 | Henryk | though most of those that i know are in the middle-european timezone and should be asleep right now |
| 22:54.18 | madmarkus | but...the 352 stay constant... |
| 22:54.36 | madmarkus | allright |
| 22:55.13 | madmarkus | i'll write a mail and maybe some messages tomorroe...i'm from europe to and should sleep now, too ;-) |
| 22:55.25 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 22:57.39 | Henryk | I just knew it! kernel 2.6.23 released. I only compiled and installed 2.6.22.9 on Friday. And each time I install a patch version after a pause (e.g. I had 2.6.22.3 before) the new minor version will be released two days later. (so 2.6.23 is actually two days late, but that's the weekend, that's ok) |
| 22:58.16 | madmarkus | :P |
| 22:58.24 | madmarkus | whack ;-) |
| 22:58.41 | madmarkus | anyway, that you a lot and good night ;-) |
| 22:58.53 | madmarkus | that=thank ;-) |
| 22:58.54 | Henryk | you too |
| 22:59.46 | *** part/#openmoko madmarkus (n=markus@ip-141-31-178-166.selfnet.de) |
| 23:02.29 | *** join/#openmoko Maledictus (n=Malebob@f054208242.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:04.58 | zash` | hm .. "should be asleep right now" |
| 23:08.09 | DukeOfURL | hmmm... just tried make openmoko-devel-image and webkit-gtk wouldn't compile. has anyone else seen this? |
| 23:12.03 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 23:12.28 | freelock | How's openmoko coming along? |
| 23:13.01 | freelock | I've been using qtopia for a few weeks now as my primary phone, and it's been working... though I'd like to switch back to openmoko if the gsmd issues have worked out... |
| 23:14.17 | *** join/#openmoko xamindar (n=xamindar@c-67-188-113-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:19.16 | gmaxwell | freelock, They haven't been worked out yet. |
| 23:19.17 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@umm-yrless170.morris.umn.edu) |
| 23:19.26 | gmaxwell | freelock, It works for you w/ qtopia?? :) |
| 23:19.29 | gmaxwell | What image! :) |
| 23:19.40 | freelock | I started with the first one from qtopia.org... |
| 23:19.50 | freelock | flashed a new one sometime last week... |
| 23:20.14 | freelock | About the only issue I have is about a 2 second delay in the audio switching, before sound comes through the headset |
| 23:20.20 | freelock | (aside from the known pm issues) |
| 23:20.50 | *** join/#openmoko El_Salvador[Away (n=Brescia@adsl-ull-120-157.44-151.net24.it) |
| 23:21.25 | freelock | I just built a new openmoko image, but kind of need the phone to work--my old one died... |
| 23:21.55 | gmaxwell | I do not believe that gsmd is working correctly for anyone at the moment. |
| 23:22.20 | freelock | Thanks... been too swamped with work to keep up... |
| 23:22.25 | freelock | Any GPS news? |
| 23:23.57 | freelock | this is the image I'm using: qtopia-rootfs.2-10020615.jffs2 |
| 23:24.05 | gmaxwell | Thank you. |
| 23:24.28 | gmaxwell | I'm not too excited about using qtopia long term, but I've got a number of friends eager to see it.. and I'd like to show them something working. |
| 23:25.54 | freelock | There's lots of quirks... you can't dial from the history, for example (at least not that I've figured out--I think it expects a hard dial button that doesn't exist) |
| 23:26.18 | freelock | ... but overall it works, and the new image lets you choose a ring profile and a number of other things... |
| 23:27.08 | freelock | Didn't like the keyboard at first, but it's actually not bad for finger typing if you don't have the pen handy |
| 23:35.49 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@139.57.12.154) |
| 23:36.09 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177650160.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:44.15 | *** join/#openmoko aloril (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 23:49.37 | *** join/#openmoko wolfspirit (n=Wolfspir@cpe-65-27-171-201.cinci.res.rr.com) |
| 23:50.15 | wolfspirit | has anyone been able to get wifi working on the neo 1973 via an sd card? does it even support i/o cards? |
| 23:51.00 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelShiloh (n=chatzill@adsl-76-208-209-165.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:51.39 | *** join/#openmoko fobos (n=fobos@78.90.88.72) |
| 23:51.39 | gmaxwell | the sd is minisd. |
| 23:51.53 | gmaxwell | I really doubt a minisd wifi interface exists! |
| 23:53.54 | wolfspirit | http://www.spectec.com.tw/products_detal.asp?dptype=w1sdw823 |
| 23:56.48 | cesarb | wow, how'd they fit the antenna into that? |
| 23:56.52 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__27 (i=disguy__@gateway/tor/x-57d9c401e6a14239) |
| 23:57.02 | cesarb | I'd think the antenna would be bigger than that fingernail-sized card... |
| 23:57.26 | SpeedEvil | You can play games with the dielectric constant. |
| 23:57.33 | SpeedEvil | To some extent. |
| 23:57.54 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: even then! |
| 23:57.55 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-28-87.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 23:58.02 | SpeedEvil | The antenna is only 6cm half-wave at dielextric constant of 1. |
| 23:58.08 | SpeedEvil | In ceramics it's higher |
| 23:58.10 | SpeedEvil | but... |
