| 00:01.36 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-71-206-249-157.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 00:02.06 | *** join/#openmoko LoDown (n=logan@dsl093-230-108.lou1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
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| 00:16.40 | CodyL | SpeedEvil, why was the shipment delayed a week? |
| 00:17.22 | *** join/#openmoko merriam__ (n=merriam@82-133-115-120.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:17.58 | SpeedEvil | codyl: dunno |
| 00:18.16 | SpeedEvil | it was stated in Seans mail that they won't even be charging CCs till later in the week. |
| 00:18.34 | SpeedEvil | If htye'd have been likely to ship within the week, they'd have mentioned. |
| 00:19.29 | codyl | SpeedEvil, okay thanks |
| 00:19.33 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 00:21.25 | jadams | ckuethe: you've seen monin? |
| 00:21.33 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-318b534182b1069a) |
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| 00:43.08 | paulproteus | I have a Neo1973 with an old software set on it. I don't really want to use serial, and I have a MicroSD card. Is there a MicroSD-only way to upgrade it to the latest snapshot from buildhost? |
| 00:43.38 | paulproteus | Hmm, OTOH the snapshots are sort of old. |
| 00:46.29 | CoreDump|afk | reading the manual on the wiki helps.... |
| 00:47.51 | *** join/#openmoko sublime_ (n=richard@144.90.11.17) |
| 00:48.11 | paulproteus | CoreDump|afk, You mean http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader ? |
| 00:50.03 | *** join/#openmoko NeoStrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D641.dynamic.brdterra.com.br) |
| 00:50.30 | paulproteus | Er, wow, my USB bus has gone berserk. |
| 00:50.34 | *** join/#openmoko so_solid_two (n=nnnmoo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 00:50.39 | paulproteus | lsusb's not really supposed to hang, eh? (-: |
| 00:50.44 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A5732E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:50.44 | CoreDump|afk | no, you don't want to touch the B/L until you really have to (except when you also own the debug board) |
| 00:51.14 | *** join/#openmoko _kaiser_ (n=kaiser@74-140-187-27.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 00:51.36 | CoreDump|afk | neos 0,5A charging mode may crash crappy USB controllers. Avoid cheap USB hubs |
| 00:51.42 | paulproteus | CoreDump|afk, I do have the debug board, but I'm willing not to use it. |
| 00:51.59 | paulproteus | It's connected directly to a motherboard USB port. |
| 00:52.06 | NeoStrider | hello folks |
| 00:52.13 | CoreDump|afk | paulproteus: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dfu-util#Flashing_the_kernel |
| 00:52.20 | CoreDump|afk | NeoStrider: hi |
| 00:52.45 | NeoStrider | coredump...your presence is not very welcome =-P |
| 00:53.06 | CoreDump|afk | ;) |
| 00:53.30 | CoreDump|afk | paulproteus: it boils down to these commands: http://rafb.net/p/xY02JL65.html |
| 00:54.32 | *** join/#openmoko inspecter (n=inspecte@85.75.183.13) |
| 00:58.04 | paulproteus | CoreDump|afk, I think my USB is totally confused, and I'll reboot soon; tty in a bit. (-: |
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| 01:01.20 | *** part/#openmoko sublime_ (n=richard@144.90.11.17) |
| 01:01.48 | *** join/#openmoko sublime_ (n=richard@144.90.11.17) |
| 01:02.31 | inspecter | hi there everybody. the last few days i'm turning into an openmoko big fan, i've read all the details i could find about it, but i'm not much of a hardcore developer so i'll be waiting for the october release. can somebody please let me know if there are any news regarding the built-in scripting languages that you're planning to support? |
| 01:02.32 | aloril | inspecter: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 01:06.45 | sparq | inspecter: basically, if there is a scripting language that works on Linux, it will work on the Neo. |
| 01:07.33 | sparq | inspecter: You may have to install the interpreter yourself, though. |
| 01:09.03 | *** join/#openmoko ajmitch (n=ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch) |
| 01:09.18 | aevin | inspecter: i don't think such things have been decided yet (i know there's a python project + python bindings on projects.openmoko.org). but as you know, people will be able to add/remove whatever software they like, so you could indirectly assume "your" language will be supported somehow. |
| 01:10.23 | *** join/#openmoko mzb (n=ubernut@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 01:10.41 | sparq | inspecter: Much of the OpenMoko development is related to building phone-ish *applications*, but the operating system itself is essentially ordinary Linux. |
| 01:11.23 | sparq | So, if you want to write bash scripts, you're all set! |
| 01:13.47 | inspecter | ok i get it. thanks for the replies. cause i was reading about bash using gtk via gtk-server on the wiki and I thought that this would be the main choice. |
| 01:14.50 | sparq | inspecter: Nope. That's the whole point of having an open source phone -- you can do pretty much whatever you want. |
| 01:16.32 | inspecter | maybe the idea is a bit stupid but for me, working on web development mostly, it would be nice to find a mini size httpd server, sqllite etc. and work with php or mono... |
| 01:16.59 | sparq | inspecter: Sure, you could do that. Have you looked at lighttpd? |
| 01:17.13 | inspecter | only heard of it |
| 01:17.41 | SpeedEvil | In practice - with a 2G MicroSD, you can install pretty much everything |
| 01:17.44 | sparq | It's pretty nice. I use it for my personal website, which gets a fair bit of traffic. |
| 01:19.36 | sparq | inspecter: It's a CPU with a few hundred MHz and a few GB of storage. Think of the laptop you owned (or might have owned) five or six years ago, and that should approximate its capabilities. |
| 01:19.39 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=orzo@70.89.88.195) |
| 01:20.17 | sparq | maybe even a little better, since it doesn't have a hard drive to go bad on you ^_^ |
| 01:20.31 | inspecter | hehe |
| 01:21.22 | *** join/#openmoko naruto_freak (n=cathy@scsoftware.csnc.net) |
| 01:21.54 | inspecter | in that case, count me in! :) i'll go for the october model though cause i need the wifi. |
| 01:25.06 | sparq | Acually, local web applications on the Neo would be a pretty good choise for new developers, since that way they could avoid having to learn how to make their application get along with the OpenEmbedded mini-desktop environment. |
| 01:26.25 | orzo | um |
| 01:26.34 | orzo | have you actually writen local web apps? |
| 01:27.13 | orzo | i have, and i must have been doing it wrong, cause my experience can be summarized: not worth the hassle |
| 01:27.22 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 01:27.31 | orzo | ajax and all |
| 01:27.44 | orzo | it was fairly absurd |
| 01:27.54 | sparq | orzo: Heh. |
| 01:28.07 | sparq | Yes, if you want to do something complicated. |
| 01:28.47 | sparq | But if you want something that could be a simple CGI script, it would be fairly easy. |
| 01:29.32 | *** join/#openmoko fgau_ (n=fgau@pD953A9C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:29.47 | orzo | well I've yet to write software for OpenEmbedded, but I bet a novice would have an easier time than if they opted to write local web aps (also as a novice in that) |
| 01:29.49 | sparq | It wouldn't be ideal from a usability point of view, but for people who just want to develop simple GUIs for their own scripts, a simple local web app isn't a bad choice. |
| 01:30.01 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@207.81.133.5) |
| 01:30.48 | sparq | orzo: A lot more people can write CGI than can write GTK applications. |
| 01:31.09 | orzo | well, maybe i did things the hard way, but I needed, on double click of my app, to start a listening socket and fire up the web browser |
| 01:31.56 | orzo | working on multiple platforms, it got a hairy |
| 01:32.57 | orzo | i was using perl also, maybe that was a poor choice |
| 01:33.20 | orzo | but, as somebody who doesnt do that sort of thing often, i was under the impression perl would be good for it |
| 01:33.46 | sparq | Oh, it is. It's just not a good idea to learn perl while also trying to get a product out the door. |
| 01:34.38 | sparq | Same is true for most languages. |
| 01:35.39 | orzo | well, I feel that i did a lot of stuff that should have already been done considering how people talk about ajax and local web aps all teh time |
| 01:36.40 | inspecter | ok guys thanks for the feedback. I have to go it's 4:30 am here. |
| 01:36.48 | inspecter | bye |
| 01:36.50 | *** part/#openmoko inspecter (n=inspecte@85.75.183.13) |
| 01:36.53 | orzo | without knowing much, you might think it's worked out so much that its basically visual basic and the web service is invisible |
| 01:37.08 | orzo | which can be done imo |
| 01:38.01 | sparq | orzo: I'm afraid not. |
| 01:38.21 | sparq | orzo: It's not that it can't be done, but that it hasn't been. |
| 01:38.26 | orzo | right |
| 01:38.35 | orzo | but with the hype out there, i thought it probably was done |
| 01:38.43 | orzo | before i found out for myself heh |
| 01:38.58 | sparq | It is, if you have lots of money to spend on it. ^_^ |
| 01:39.02 | orzo | heh |
| 01:39.03 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Auckland]] [[P1_Owners]] |
| 01:39.53 | sparq | orzo: Web technologies are often like that. No one bothers to polish them. |
| 01:40.02 | orzo | what did you have in mind for the newbie web coders? php? |
| 01:40.18 | orzo | for writing local web aps i mean |
| 01:41.19 | sparq | I would give them some example scripts in various languages. The script would set up the socket connection and launch a browser window directed to the right URL. |
| 01:41.29 | orzo | hm |
| 01:42.08 | sparq | It would at least let people write programs that display text and pictures and have buttons and text entry boxes. |
| 01:42.52 | *** join/#openmoko MarkTheDaemon_II (n=markthed@phpbb/modifications/MarkTheDaemon) |
| 01:43.35 | orzo | well, for a complete newbie, i think gtk might be more straight forward |
| 01:44.19 | orzo | and launching the browser window on teh right URL has various gotchas |
| 01:44.35 | orzo | thats one thing you'd think would be already written for us |
| 01:44.52 | sparq | gochas? |
| 01:45.36 | orzo | gotchas. Meaning it's not as simple as you'd think. It's brittle and requires some platform detection and such in perl and probably other languages too |
| 01:46.22 | orzo | it will work on your devel box, but maybe not on production... |
| 01:46.25 | sparq | platform detection? if it's an application for the Neo1973, then I'm pretty sure it's safe to make assumptions |
| 01:46.31 | orzo | ya |
| 01:46.54 | sparq | epiphany http://foo.bar & |
| 01:47.15 | orzo | but a principle advantage of local web apps is supposed to be that its just web stuff and you have platform independence for your gui for free more or less |
| 01:47.46 | sparq | Heh. I think we are imagining applications of very different scales. |
| 01:47.57 | sparq | I'm imagining something more like a 50 line bash script. |
| 01:48.09 | sparq | That displays a button that you may click. |
| 01:48.30 | jadams | sparq: I'm going to be writing either rails or camping apps for the phone in ruby |
| 01:48.40 | jadams | but if that's what you're after |
| 01:48.41 | jadams | zenity |
| 01:48.48 | orzo | sparq, well, still in that case, launching the browser seems overkill |
| 01:49.23 | orzo | there are lighter ways to add gui code to bash scripts |
| 01:49.31 | sparq | jadams: Neat! Rails is fun. I use rails+lighttpd for my website |
| 01:49.40 | andylockran | any news on shipping? |
| 01:49.41 | jadams | sparq: I write rails apps for a living :) |
| 01:49.43 | andylockran | been out all day? |
| 01:49.58 | sparq | jadams: Spiffy. |
| 01:50.14 | orzo | i think my order is past 800th so those are probably not even in the states yet |
| 01:50.15 | sparq | jadams: I write python apps for supercomputers. |
| 01:51.12 | jadams | sparq: spiffier :) |
| 01:51.43 | sublime_ | mine is 1843 which makes it hte 23rd order (im special, i know) and i have not recieved any kindof confirmation nor have they billed my card |
| 01:51.46 | orzo | how long does it take for the browser to come up on teh neo? |
| 01:51.50 | sparq | jadams: Heh. Well, it *sounds* cool. I only do it becaues otherwise I'd have to use Fortran. |
| 01:52.40 | sparq | orzo: On my (very slow) QEMU instance, it takes about a second or two. On the real device, it should be better. |
| 01:53.18 | *** join/#openmoko suma (n=suma@12.155.153.2) |
| 01:53.24 | andylockran | I'm 1873... wish I was 100 later :) |
| 01:53.28 | andylockran | anyways - off to bed - night! |
| 01:53.41 | orzo | shouldnt qemu on a fast computer do better than a real device for most things? |
| 01:53.58 | sparq | orzo: God, I hope not, or the Neo is going to suuuuuuck! |
| 01:54.02 | sparq | ^_^ |
| 01:54.02 | SpeedEvil | qemu is really quite slow. |
| 01:54.25 | bonan | I really hope it's qemu thats slow :) |
| 01:54.33 | bonan | s/thats/that's |
| 01:55.08 | orzo | i think the wiki or something indicated qemu ought to be faster except for audio |
| 01:55.33 | sparq | I think it's reasonable if you are emulating X86 on X86, and you have the virtualization patches. |
| 01:55.56 | sparq | orzo: faster than other emulaters, I'd believe ^_^ |
| 01:56.19 | sparq | QEMU is a great emulator |
| 01:57.11 | orzo | well, compiled native for a 2ghz x86 desktop compared to running native on a 266mhz neo, the desktop would win by a very large ratio i'd expect |
| 01:58.17 | orzo | and if thats right, depending on just how big that ratio is, emulation might be faster too |
| 01:58.24 | bonan | Does qemu take advantage of extra cores or cpus? |
| 01:58.51 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind_ (n=matrix@59.176.111.177) |
| 02:00.43 | orzo | i dont realy know how to compare cpus anymore |
| 02:01.02 | bonan | Neither do I |
| 02:01.09 | orzo | i just look at the frequency |
| 02:01.21 | orzo | and hope thats a good enough indicator |
| 02:02.05 | bonan | Our 2.2GHz machines at work outruns this 3.06GHz :\ |
| 02:02.18 | orzo | heh |
| 02:02.33 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@ppp121-44-212-102.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net) |
| 02:02.47 | orzo | are those duals at work compared to a single processor? |
| 02:02.55 | bonan | dual core, yes |
| 02:03.00 | sublime_ | the 2.2 sound like dual cores |
| 02:03.02 | sublime_ | yeah |
| 02:03.07 | orzo | so multiply by cpus |
| 02:03.10 | bonan | AMD X2 |
| 02:03.12 | orzo | 4.4 > 3.06 |
| 02:03.13 | bonan | one cpu |
| 02:03.13 | orzo | heh |
| 02:03.14 | sublime_ | that means 4.4ghz |
| 02:03.16 | bonan | :) |
| 02:03.38 | sublime_ | my laptop cpu blows my desktops P4 out of the water |
| 02:03.43 | sublime_ | sad but true |
| 02:04.07 | orzo | my laptop is a p2 heh |
| 02:04.09 | sublime_ | actually i love it |
| 02:04.23 | sublime_ | dude time for a new laptop |
| 02:04.28 | thomasg | well, multiplying the frequence by the number of cores is nonsence :) |
| 02:04.33 | orzo | heh |
| 02:04.45 | orzo | you got a better simple formula? |
| 02:05.20 | thomasg | well, the frequence doesnt tell anything between different models |
| 02:05.24 | sublime_ | well, technically, i think, only one processor can run one app at a time |
| 02:05.55 | bonan | unless it's multithreaded |
| 02:05.56 | thomasg | running 2 apps at the sametime doesnt speed up one app to the double speed :) |
| 02:06.04 | thomasg | even if it's multithreaded |
| 02:06.24 | sublime_ | what im saying is that both cores cant run the same process |
| 02:06.32 | sublime_ | i think, dont quote me on this |
| 02:06.36 | orzo | well, it will speed up make -j2 |
| 02:06.39 | sublime_ | i could be incredibly wrong |
| 02:06.39 | thomasg | btw: Sun's niagara runs at 10 GHz!!!11 :) |
| 02:07.01 | sublime_ | *goes on new eggto look for the niagara processor |
| 02:07.11 | sublime_ | *creams pants* |
| 02:07.23 | thomasg | 8 cores at 1.2 ghz |
| 02:07.35 | orzo | heh |
| 02:07.40 | thomasg | if you'd like to multiply by threads (when talking about multithreading) the niagara runs at 40 GHz |
| 02:08.00 | thomasg | guess you see how stupid this is :) |
| 02:08.22 | orzo | well, thomasg, how do i compare the 266mhz neo cpu to an x86 computer? |
| 02:08.30 | thomasg | orzo, you can't |
| 02:08.31 | orzo | were would it fall |
| 02:08.38 | thomasg | you can't even compare a pentium 4 with sun's niagara |
| 02:08.39 | orzo | yes you can, doing benchmarks if nothing else |
| 02:08.53 | orzo | of course, you can compare |
| 02:09.12 | orzo | can you do it perfectly, no. Does that mean dont even try? |
| 02:09.48 | orzo | we are runing roughly the same software anyway |
| 02:10.17 | *** join/#openmoko chouse (n=chadh@CPE001057000aad-CM001225d73c82.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:10.26 | orzo | how far back would i have to go in the x86 ancestory to get openmoko running at roughly the speed it would run on a neo? |
| 02:11.41 | orzo | can qemu do virtual timing? |
| 02:12.11 | orzo | i suppose it probably doesnt know enough about the emulated cpu beyond teh instruction set |
| 02:12.29 | orzo | it would be a handy feature |
| 02:12.48 | *** join/#openmoko aesci7E (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 02:16.04 | Qwell | orzo: you really can't compare a P4 to a Niagara. |
| 02:16.20 | Qwell | At some things (floating point transcoding, for instance) the P4 is going to win, hands down |
| 02:16.55 | Qwell | at other things (heavily multi-threaded applications), clearly the Niagara is going to win |
| 02:16.55 | orzo | so |
| 02:17.04 | orzo | you can put weights on everything and come up with a number if you want |
| 02:17.05 | sparq | Indeed. Comparing processors, even with the same instruction set, is a very dicy business. |
| 02:17.55 | sparq | In the end, it comes down to its performance at the task *you* happen to care about. |
| 02:18.20 | *** join/#openmoko cibomahto (n=metsmatt@ip215.coronado-crossing.phx.ygnition.net) |
| 02:18.45 | Qwell | sparq: basically, yeah |
| 02:19.27 | thomasg | imho comparing makes no sence in some cases |
| 02:19.47 | thomasg | of course you *can* compare, but it wouldn't bring nothing |
| 02:19.57 | Arachnid | Sure it would |
| 02:19.58 | orzo | how about put weights on everything and also minimum performance spec on different categories |
| 02:20.04 | Arachnid | you can determine which will be faster at a particular task |
| 02:20.11 | Arachnid | Which should ultimately be all that matters |
| 02:20.12 | Qwell | my toaster is clearly better at making toast than my laptop (that's debatable...) |
| 02:20.30 | Arachnid | 'course, I'm sure there are boundaries outside which you can say that x is better than y at any task |
| 02:20.52 | sparq | You are always welcome to gin up some comparison to suit your particular needs, but there is no garantee that it will be relevant to someone else. |
| 02:21.00 | orzo | so first come up with a minimum tolerable performance for the different categories and then use weights on everything to decide between the alternatives that meet those requirments |
| 02:21.42 | orzo | well, probably only a few different measures would be sufficent |
| 02:21.44 | Arachnid | sparq: Indeed, but that's rather different to saying that comparing processors is futile full stop |
| 02:21.58 | orzo | like, developers care a lot about make and gcc and compiling |
| 02:22.10 | Qwell | But why would you be compiling on your phone? |
| 02:22.13 | Qwell | You wouldn't |
| 02:22.40 | orzo | you would if it turned out to do a better job than your other computer |
| 02:22.41 | sparq | Arachnid: Agreed. I'm just saying that I'm not iterested in random people's benchmarks. ^_^ |
| 02:22.47 | *** part/#openmoko kyashii (n=cathy@scsoftware.csnc.net) |
| 02:22.48 | sparq | interested, I mean |
| 02:23.08 | orzo | also you would if you didnt bother to bring any other computer with you |
| 02:23.10 | Arachnid | sparq: fair enough |
| 02:23.16 | Qwell | orzo: ssh |
| 02:23.31 | orzo | ssh would be expensive i figure |
| 02:23.33 | Qwell | besides, it's not like I'm going to have a cross-compiler for the system ON my phone.. |
| 02:23.38 | orzo | if you arent paying a flat internet rate |
| 02:23.51 | orzo | usually the celular plans charge by teh kilobyte or some such |
| 02:23.52 | Qwell | (I realize I'm arguing semantics here) |
| 02:24.09 | Arachnid | ssh ought to be cheap enough as long as you don't start using ncurses apps |
| 02:24.43 | orzo | i used to code on my ti85 heh |
| 02:24.55 | orzo | so why not a phone |
| 02:25.14 | Qwell | writing code, sure |
| 02:25.22 | sparq | Ahh... I remembe Z80 assembly... |
| 02:25.29 | Qwell | so, what do you need there? an editor... |
| 02:25.36 | orzo | eh |
| 02:25.45 | orzo | you are writing code for the phone |
| 02:26.07 | orzo | the phone is going to run it |
| 02:26.37 | sparq | Qwell: It's an open source phone, so people can and will compile things on the Neo, and there is nothing you can do to stop them ^_^ |
| 02:26.40 | orzo | so either its going to interpret what you wrote, or you are going to compile it on the phone or you are going to send your source somewhere to compile and then download the result back to the phone |
| 02:27.13 | Qwell | a cross-compiled cross-compiler...my head hurts |
| 02:27.22 | Qwell | I thought we were discussing performance differences? |
| 02:27.36 | orzo | heh |
| 02:28.39 | orzo | on the neo i think the biggest concern for performance is probably graphics and ui (and of course audio, but i figure thats going to be sufficent) |
| 02:29.25 | orzo | will teh neo be able to emulate a nintendo with reasonable performance? |
| 02:29.34 | Arachnid | Heh. |
| 02:29.36 | Arachnid | NES or SNES? |
| 02:29.43 | Qwell | you're talking about 2 different things again |
| 02:29.49 | Qwell | a nintendo emulator isn't just graphics |
| 02:29.52 | galexande | yeah, if i have to struggle to get things to update *instantaneously* in response to user input, i will immediately dump all of the openmoko middleware |
| 02:29.55 | galexande | i love neo :) |
| 02:30.37 | orzo | i know it isnt just graphics |
| 02:33.33 | *** join/#openmoko User198 (n=User@c-67-172-119-251.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:34.24 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:34.36 | Skwid__ | hey everyone |
| 02:34.56 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid__ (i=User@c-67-172-119-251.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:35.05 | Skwid__ | hey everyone |
| 02:35.35 | Skwid__ | i'm planning to write a small application for the openmoko platform, should I create a page on the wiki, or is that only for the official applications ? |
| 02:36.07 | *** part/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@207.81.133.5) |
| 02:36.25 | orzo | i dont know |
| 02:36.36 | orzo | what are you writing? |
| 02:36.53 | orzo | (out of curiosity, i dont know the answer to your question regardless) |
| 02:37.34 | Skwid__ | a small application to get a list of the hotspots from a wifidog network, and compute the distance from the GPS coordinates to each hotspot |
| 02:38.57 | orzo | is it possible to use the gsm hardware to hack together some adhoc phone-to-phone communication? |
| 02:39.12 | Skwid__ | i dont know :) |
| 02:39.57 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 02:42.31 | rwhitby | orzo: highly unlikely, since there are no AT commands to do so, and you don't have access to the internals of the GSM modules |
| 02:43.19 | roh | orzo nope. that wouldnt be possible in gsm without disturbing the network |
| 02:43.19 | orzo | by modules, you mean software or hardware? |
| 02:44.09 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 02:45.22 | orzo | roh, even when theres no coverage in your area? |
| 02:46.47 | cibomahto | orzo: the gsm modem is completely locked down, without hacking the firmware on it you only have access to the AT commands rwhitby is talking about |
| 02:47.26 | orzo | you could probably get something to work without disturbing the network.. bandwidth might be really low, but i suppose two phones might be talking to their voice mail on teh network but secretly communicating with each other via bits that will be corrected by error correction |
| 02:47.38 | orzo | heh |
| 02:48.10 | cibomahto | orzo: but i doubt that the hardware could be made to do that anyway, its only designed to talk to the tower- in fact, the transmit and receive frequencies are different, so you probably couldn't even pick up a signal from another handset |
| 02:48.46 | cibomahto | you might get away with something like that i guess, but it would take lots of hacking |
| 02:48.54 | cibomahto | bluetooth would probably be easier :-) |
| 02:48.59 | orzo | heh |
| 02:49.59 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind__ (n=matrix@59.176.111.177) |
| 02:51.26 | orzo | is the do it yourself gumstix stuff equally locked down? |
| 02:51.34 | cibomahto | yeah |
| 02:51.42 | cibomahto | same deal with using prebuilt modules |
| 02:52.20 | BlackBsd | about how big is the svn co of openmoko? |
| 02:52.50 | BlackBsd | i have gotten the openembedded tarball.. |
| 02:53.20 | roh | BlackBsd 340mb is the svn |
| 02:53.33 | Aria | 244mb here, including .svn files |
| 02:53.45 | roh | all in a whole you should have about 6-12gbyte space to build it including oe |
| 02:54.25 | orzo | that prevented me from using my old laptop |
| 02:54.39 | BlackBsd | damn.. i will never get it. |
| 02:54.41 | orzo | seems big |
| 02:54.42 | BlackBsd | my satelite service throttles me... |
| 02:54.52 | Aria | It strikes me as too big as well. |
| 02:55.00 | BlackBsd | and a half broken svn tree is as good as no tree |
| 02:55.27 | orzo | it didnt seem bad for me to co |
| 02:55.38 | roh | Aria its a whole distribution, not only a kernel. including all source-tarballs (the whole thing) |
| 02:56.21 | BlackBsd | thats bigger than the oe snapshot |
| 02:56.22 | orzo | if it's 244mb including .svn files, i figure its roughly 122mb to download via co |
| 02:56.29 | BlackBsd | which was about 150mb |
| 02:57.09 | orzo | wont help my laptop |
| 02:57.18 | roh | pata is avail also |
| 02:57.36 | orzo | well it seems silly to upgrade the lpatop just for this |
| 02:57.46 | Aria | roh: Yes, but having to check out so much to build things is hard. I'm used to a far more modular build system. |
| 02:57.48 | orzo | and if im upgrading it seems silly to just do the hard drive |
| 02:58.01 | BlackBsd | im not having an issue with size |
| 02:58.25 | roh | Aria the svn and mtn are the only huge blocks at start |
| 02:58.32 | Aria | Right. |
| 02:58.41 | BlackBsd | my issue is my isp cuts my speed down then disconnects me every once and awhile if i keep requesting data... |
| 02:58.42 | BlackBsd | it sucks |
| 02:58.47 | roh | Aria all the OE packages download theit tarball and cache it when building |
| 02:58.49 | orzo | i downloaded fine, but it's unfortunate i couldnt build with 2gigs |
| 02:58.51 | Aria | But that's a lot of unneeded overhead. It's a big burden at first. |
| 02:59.01 | BlackBsd | i was thinking about doing this on my mobile laptop |
| 02:59.14 | Aria | Yeah, I know. It's also annoying that OE builds so much host stuff, when I have it working right there outside the tree |
| 03:00.14 | roh | Aria for the host it doesnt't build that much stuff. only whats needed to cross-build the real thing |
| 03:00.29 | roh | meaning cross-cc, bitbake and so on |
| 03:00.37 | Aria | perl_native? |
| 03:00.46 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-244-076.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:00.54 | Aria | And I /have/ bitbake -- that's the thing. Already installed as part of my distro. |
| 03:01.16 | roh | Aria it also builds some deps instead of believing the user to have installed a working version. |
| 03:01.27 | Aria | I know. that's really annoying. |
| 03:01.40 | Aria | (or more, that I can't figure out if that's easy to make optional or not) |
| 03:01.41 | roh | the bitbake we use is patched since normal bitbake cannot handle external repos well enough |
| 03:02.03 | Aria | Aaaye. |
| 03:03.07 | BlackBsd | so did i download an 157mb oe.mnt.bz2 then the oe source with openmoko? |
| 03:03.09 | roh | for example it couln't differnciate if an svn was updated or not and checked it out and tarballed the result every time again |
| 03:03.48 | roh | BlackBsd the oe.mnt.bz2 is just an snapshot of the mnt database to accelerate the checkout |
| 03:04.32 | roh | it gets updated after unpacking, but having a huge chunk speeds that up and lowers the load on the servers |
| 03:05.04 | Aria | (has anyone submitted a patch to the bitbake developers for that?) |
| 03:05.09 | BlackBsd | is the patch being ported back upstream? |
| 03:05.18 | roh | Aria thats in the works |
| 03:05.24 | Aria | Woot. |
| 03:05.28 | roh | of course. things need to go upstream |
| 03:05.32 | BlackBsd | oh, thanks |
| 03:05.39 | BlackBsd | didnt know that |
| 03:05.50 | roh | but first the patch needs to be updated to a more recent bitbake 1.8.x afaik |
| 03:06.16 | roh | i do not have the most recent info to that though. henryk was working on that |
| 03:10.32 | orzo | i hope they sort the orders by something other than order number |
| 03:10.33 | orzo | heh |
| 03:11.17 | sagaci1 | I hope they stick with order number, personally |
| 03:11.19 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind__ (n=matrix@59.176.111.177) |
| 03:11.28 | orzo | because you are in the first 500? |
| 03:11.36 | sagaci1 | I'm in the first 100 |
| 03:12.03 | orzo | well if i were you, i'd hope they use the order numbers too |
| 03:12.08 | Aria | HEhe |
| 03:12.37 | *** join/#openmoko josh_marshal1 (n=josh@cpe-24-162-112-6.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 03:13.36 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 03:14.18 | BlackBsd | sweet, i think my make setup has finished |
| 03:14.30 | BlackBsd | lets run it again to make sure. |
| 03:16.03 | *** join/#openmoko cninja (n=cninja@pcd592106.netvigator.com) |
| 03:16.21 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind___ (n=matrix@59.176.111.177) |
| 03:20.58 | *** join/#openmoko codeshepherd (n=codeshep@61.8.208.15) |
| 03:22.11 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind____ (n=matrix@59.176.111.177) |
| 03:24.08 | sparq | ›®Â |
| 03:24.32 | ferric | hm. |
| 03:24.34 | quinton | that's an odd one |
| 03:25.19 | Aria | Asian encoding? |
| 03:25.25 | Aria | Sure looks it -- Big5? |
| 03:25.27 | summatusmentis | ferric: can I pm you? I have an offtopic question |
| 03:25.31 | ferric | summatusmentis: sure. |
| 03:28.29 | *** part/#openmoko josh_marshal1 (n=josh@cpe-24-162-112-6.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 03:38.43 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wifidog_Hotspot_Finder]] [[User_talk:Myfanwy]] [[Direct.openmoko.com_order_process]] [[User:Myfanwy]] [[User_talk:Agent_X]] [[User:Agent_X]] |
| 03:47.16 | *** join/#openmoko Hoolxi (n=Hoolxi@203.110.163.133) |
| 03:48.05 | *** join/#openmoko jackey (n=jackey@CPE001839cfbf96-CM0014e827107e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 03:48.17 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 03:48.17 | jackey | anyone here? |
| 03:48.25 | jackey | still no response for my order |
| 03:48.26 | ferric | yes |
| 03:48.33 | ferric | jackey: did you ready sean's email? |
| 03:48.38 | ferric | (or the topic?) |
| 03:49.09 | jackey | what email? He sent me an email to read SH1 |
| 03:50.12 | jackey | this is more serious now. |
| 03:50.37 | jackey | i am far behind the schedule. |
| 03:51.15 | jackey | try to become a first Mass Production customer, but ... |
| 03:51.45 | jackey | i just need a debug board, anyone can ship me one, i pay for that. |
| 03:53.14 | jackey | ferric? |
| 03:53.48 | codeshepherd | what games come with openmoko ? |
| 03:54.33 | codeshepherd | and i have a sudoku program.. would like to port it to openmoko.. what should I do? can anyone guide me ? |
| 03:54.53 | jackey | sudoku game? |
| 03:55.00 | jackey | gtk based game? |
| 03:55.44 | BlackBsd | doom3 :-) |
| 03:55.49 | BlackBsd | tux racer |
| 03:55.57 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 03:56.42 | BlackBsd | i see here that the package manager requires kdelibs... |
| 03:56.50 | BlackBsd | 3 that is |
| 03:57.28 | BlackBsd | so other kde apps might run becuase the libs are already present or staticly linked?? |
| 03:59.54 | roh | we don't use kde |
| 04:00.02 | ferric | jackey: i'm sorry - i don't think they're set to handle demand |
| 04:00.04 | *** join/#openmoko bassinbo1 (n=yep@c-76-31-13-187.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 04:00.34 | codeshepherd | jackey: its web based ... |
| 04:00.55 | ferric | jackey: and there's really no way of getting them to go faster. |
| 04:01.07 | codeshepherd | i use php for webbased.. I do have one written using C |
| 04:01.18 | *** join/#openmoko holymoly (n=hello@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 04:01.38 | jackey | ferric, that is why i am a little bit worried about openmoko. |
| 04:03.30 | sparq | errk -- sorry |
| 04:03.34 | jackey | my order number is 2013 |
| 04:03.38 | sparq | cat jumped on my computer. |
| 04:03.50 | *** join/#openmoko wiml (n=wiml@underhill.hhhh.org) |
| 04:04.02 | jackey | i just need to get a debug board and fix something |
| 04:04.26 | roh | jackey n.p. .. just come by, i have one here *duck* |
| 04:04.47 | jackey | i am in Toronto right now |
| 04:05.01 | jackey | but my engineers are in Nanjing, China |
| 04:05.02 | roh | that could be a problem, i'm in berlin |
| 04:05.24 | roh | ;) |
| 04:05.27 | happycube | :) |
| 04:05.30 | jackey | roh, thx |
| 04:05.39 | BlackBsd | wow, 2013 phones sold already. |
| 04:05.43 | happycube | really? |
| 04:05.50 | happycube | where's the figure on that |
| 04:05.55 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=fjfjjfjh@mauve.plus.com) |
| 04:05.55 | thomasg | has nothing to do with that |
| 04:05.55 | codeshepherd | debug board just seems to have a USB hub and some converted.. is it difficult to make it yourself jackey |
| 04:05.56 | BlackBsd | nice |
| 04:05.56 | BlackBsd | i hope this blows up... |
| 04:06.00 | thomasg | the order numbers started at about 1800 |
| 04:06.05 | thomasg | the first known is 1820 |
| 04:06.18 | ckuethe | i've nearly got order #3900 |
| 04:06.20 | roh | BlackBsd thats wrong. its just the ticketnumber, and tickets are not only used for sales. |
| 04:06.35 | happycube | code - no it wires into the debug port and has jtag |
| 04:06.37 | roh | every email asking something hits there |
| 04:06.47 | jackey | codeshepherd, how can i glue one, i have no idea |
| 04:07.01 | happycube | *and serial |
| 04:07.06 | codeshepherd | jackey: i am equally clueless |
| 04:07.49 | roh | codeshepherd the debugboard is a ftdi2232 dual usart which can do jtag on one port and serial on the second combined with an usb-hub for convenience |
| 04:07.55 | BlackBsd | any ideas on a concept visual on the new phone comming out in october? |
| 04:07.56 | BlackBsd | is it going to look the same |
| 04:08.00 | BlackBsd | figures... |
| 04:08.40 | jackey | Sean told me that openmoko can do a mass production then |
| 04:09.10 | jackey | i sent him an email about the volome and what kind of support we can get from openmoko |
| 04:09.10 | wiml | !counter |
| 04:09.10 | wiml | counter |
| 04:09.10 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 03:55:24 (0.163±0.2 days) (1756;248) |
| 04:12.00 | ferric | hrm |
| 04:12.14 | ferric | jackey: you need to wait for the initial hump to get over |
| 04:12.39 | jackey | ferric, i knew |
| 04:13.20 | jackey | we booked a booth in Linux World as San Francisco on Aug. I really want to show the NEO there. |
| 04:14.09 | jackey | wiml, roger that |
| 04:14.25 | *** join/#openmoko josh_marshall (n=josh@cpe-24-162-112-6.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 04:14.37 | jackey | wiml, i am only two hour drivers from where NEO made. |
| 04:15.25 | jackey | i have been complaining lots here, almost everyday, WOA |
| 04:15.43 | wiml | heh. frustrating |
| 04:16.06 | codyl | jackey, bay area or taiwan ? |
| 04:16.17 | jackey | bay area |
| 04:16.34 | codyl | cool. im in mountain view ;-) |
| 04:16.44 | jackey | welcome to join us. Company name: ArcherMind Technology |
| 04:17.21 | codyl | where are you located? |
| 04:17.24 | wiml | I thought all the manufacturing was being done in taiwan? what gets done in the bay area? |
| 04:17.32 | ferric | jackey: complaining here won't make any difference... sean's the only one that can help you. |
| 04:17.39 | ferric | wiml: they get shipped to fremont, ca from china |
| 04:17.42 | ferric | (not taiwan) |
| 04:18.16 | wiml | ferric: that makes sense |
| 04:18.25 | codyl | ah, cupertino |
| 04:18.43 | jackey | ferric, i sent him couple emails already. Hope he can help me to meet my schedule. |
| 04:19.12 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 04:19.14 | jackey | codyl, you will find us very easily. I will reserve a gift for you *^_^* |
| 04:19.30 | ferric | codyl: fremont, not cupertino |
| 04:19.37 | ferric | erm, sorry. wrong answer :) |
| 04:19.45 | codyl | now im just confused |
| 04:20.27 | codyl | jackey, find you * where * ..? |
| 04:22.34 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 04:24.27 | jackey | booth no.: L1420 |
| 04:24.38 | codyl | oh, at LinuxWorld |
| 04:24.41 | codyl | I get it |
| 04:24.51 | codyl | I should register |
| 04:25.17 | codyl | last year's was a bit disappointing |
| 04:26.19 | jackey | codyl, do not count this year |
| 04:27.36 | codyl | are you guys a chinese company ? |
| 04:30.28 | *** join/#openmoko crunchylaptop (n=welch@ool-18b9456b.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 04:30.43 | wiml | anyone know what the reason for the most recent delay is? (from 16-july to the 23-july in the channel msg)? they just want to ship on a monday, or what? |
| 04:32.16 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 04:32.51 | jackey | codyl, yes. Formal company is China MobileSoft, sold to PlamSource with 36M in 2004 |
| 04:33.12 | jackey | sorry, previous company is China MobileSoft |
| 04:33.37 | jackey | PalmSource sold to Access in 2005 with $1.6 Billion |
| 04:34.28 | codyl | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:34.40 | ferric | wiml: the phones are in Fremont, but it takes to print shipping labels, etc. |
| 04:35.03 | jackey | yes, i am |
| 04:35.35 | codyl | jackey, 我会ä¸æ–‡ã€‚ :-) |
| 04:35.52 | jackey | codyl, haha |
| 04:36.02 | jackey | u in bay area? |
| 04:36.07 | codyl | jackey, 对 |
| 04:36.23 | jackey | i heard that google is "MAKING" phone os right now. |
| 04:36.38 | codyl | ya some crap like that..Google is infesting my town.. |
| 04:37.16 | codyl | jackey, im in mountain view |
| 04:37.22 | ferric | heh |
| 04:37.25 | jackey | Google send me an offer before, I did not go. Otherwise I may live in your area too |
| 04:37.27 | wiml | I heard that google is putting up an orbiting laser platform that can index your THOUGHTS. and it uses ajax. |
| 04:39.05 | codyl | jackey, they have tried to get everyone .. its scarey |
| 04:39.42 | codyl | I swear they are going to start tearing down my favorite restaurants to build giftshops on castro street |
| 04:39.43 | juri_ | i may contact them and take them up on it. the economy in my area is kinda falling apart. |
| 04:40.13 | jackey | codyl, it is all business i guess. |
| 04:40.26 | jackey | same shit happen in China everyday |
| 04:40.49 | codyl | jackey, they do pay well - and they have good perks and such |
| 04:41.02 | codyl | jackey, are you from the mainland ? |
| 04:41.06 | ferric | juri_: resist...the...BORG... |
| 04:41.13 | jackey | codyl, yes |
| 04:41.17 | codyl | ferric, exactly |
| 04:41.21 | jackey | i am from Nanjing |
| 04:41.41 | ferric | :) |
| 04:41.57 | juri_ | ferric: my house already looks like the borg are tennants. its just one step further... |
| 04:42.24 | jadams | heh...someone added "can i has some money for a neo?" to the faq...hurrah |
| 04:42.28 | codyl | jackey, cool- ive been learning chinese slowly for the past few years..been nothing but fun |
| 04:42.51 | jackey | are u chinese? |
| 04:43.25 | ferric | juri_: you have the google street team living in your house and the bug with the 8 camera attachment parked outside? |
| 04:43.53 | jackey | most of my friends in US is learning Chinese because they married a chinese gal. |
| 04:44.22 | codyl | jackey, my girlfriend is japanese :-P purely out of interest |
| 04:44.23 | jackey | ferric, u saw that movie too? |
| 04:44.41 | ferric | jackey: what movie? |
| 04:46.09 | juri_ | ferric: i have an 8 camera attachment vehicle already. didnt need no steenkin google. ;) |
| 04:46.28 | jackey | do not remember the name. It was a fake story about a big company stealing codes from young telants via cable |
| 04:47.02 | ferric | what's the newest darpa challenege? |
| 04:47.29 | ferric | jackey: lol... that sounds like a BAD movie. |
| 04:48.02 | jackey | juri_, are you making movie inside your car? |
| 04:48.09 | jackey | just kidding |
| 04:48.50 | ferric | OE.mtn.bz2 is coming :D |
| 04:49.58 | jackey | OE.mtn.bz2, what is that? |
| 04:50.14 | ferric | jackey: openembedded |
| 04:50.27 | ferric | i'm installing makemokofile |
| 04:50.35 | codyl | ferric, used angstrom ? |
| 04:50.36 | daMaestro | ok... so have they shipped |
| 04:50.36 | daMaestro | ? |
| 04:50.50 | daMaestro | or do we really have to wait another week? |
| 04:51.24 | ferric | codyl: no - what is? |
| 04:51.25 | daMaestro | smartly, they have not billed me; or i might be upset ;-) |
| 04:51.37 | jackey | btw, is there any good tools for building system? |
| 04:51.45 | codyl | ferric, are you an embedded linux developer ? |
| 04:52.09 | codyl | http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/ |
| 04:52.15 | ferric | codyl: i'm just starting. |
| 04:53.00 | codyl | I use it for robotics |
| 04:53.12 | ferric | cool. I will check it out. |
| 04:55.15 | jackey | time to sleep, bye |
| 04:56.30 | codyl | jackey, å†è§ |
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| 05:38.43 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Mokopedia]] [[Wish_List]] [[Wifidog_Hotspot_Finder]] |
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| 06:06.52 | CM | There's nothing more frustrating than working with people who only draw pretty diagrams and write specification, but never do any real work at all |
| 06:07.01 | wiml | heh |
| 06:07.33 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 06:07.51 | wiml | I bet it is also frustrating to work with the people who only do the "real" technical work and who don't understand why there are always so many administrative delays |
| 06:08.14 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 06:08.14 | wiml | (I try hard to be one of those people who only has to do the technical stuff... sometimes I succeed) |
| 06:08.23 | CM | Hehe |
| 06:08.48 | *** join/#openmoko lal1 (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 06:09.06 | CM | It's hard, I agree. Always getting dragged into meetings and such.. :P |
| 06:09.32 | CM | zecke|sleep: http://blogs.gnome.org/xan/2007/07/17/epiphany-webkit/ |
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| 06:16.15 | ynezz | anyway it was a good marketing move, that "insanity" post :) |
| 06:16.26 | ynezz | bad words spread faster... |
| 06:16.32 | CM | mickey|slides: How did the OpenMoko talk go? :) |
| 06:16.59 | CM | ynezz: True |
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| 07:13.21 | vlo | Wow, LaF0rge's blog post is quite amazing ... |
| 07:15.01 | keesj | this one? If you want a status update on OpenMoko .. |
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| 07:22.00 | TRIsoft | morning |
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| 07:28.35 | ScaredyCat | the new one keesj |
| 07:28.57 | ScaredyCat | http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/07/17/#20070717-sick-not-insane |
| 07:32.02 | *** part/#openmoko josh_marshall (n=josh@cpe-24-162-112-6.hot.res.rr.com) |
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| 07:39.03 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973]] [[Kernel]] |
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| 08:26.05 | Any_Key | morning all |
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| 08:34.52 | ewanm89_laptop | Morning |
| 08:36.54 | wibbit | mornin |
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| 08:59.22 | Any_Key | I've problem building devel image on Debian unstable with mokomakefile. Error on compiling coreutils-5.3.0, as I recall from errorlog "futimens" in utimens.h has conflicting type declaration |
| 08:59.54 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p57A85656.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:00.05 | Any_Key | is it possible this becours I've dlib2.6 ? |
| 09:00.35 | Any_Key | s/becorse/because |
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| 09:02.41 | kristian-m | Any_Key I've had the same issue using gutsy. - yes its glib |
| 09:03.04 | kristian-m | Any_Key I solved it using a changeroot environment with feisty |
| 09:03.37 | kristian-m | Any_Key if you like you can download the chroot-image from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Test_Openmoko_Emulation_with_chroot_image |
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| 09:08.34 | Any_Key | kristian-m, looks nice, I'll first try to install glib2.4 somehow & recompile |
| 09:10.19 | kristian-m | Any_Key have fun |
| 09:10.39 | Any_Key | kristian-m, already :-) |
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| 09:12.07 | ewanm89_laptop | Anyone have anyidea where openmoko gets the original config from? |
| 09:13.08 | roh | ewanm89_laptop config for what? |
| 09:13.41 | ewanm89_laptop | Well /etc/passwd ans /etc/group atm |
| 09:14.23 | Any_Key | try cd /home/moko ; find ./ -iname etc |
| 09:17.24 | roh | ewanm89_laptop for the built rootfs there is a empty password set for root. or what is the question? |
| 09:18.21 | ewanm89_laptop | roh: I'm trying to add myltiple users. |
| 09:18.47 | roh | heh.. thats a more generic oe question |
| 09:19.15 | ewanm89_laptop | I programs needed to do it, now need to add a default user to the passwd file. |
| 09:19.53 | CM | ewanm89_laptop: Try asking in #oe maybe? |
| 09:19.56 | *** join/#openmoko andylockran (n=andylock@82-36-184-134.cable.ubr03.soli.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 09:20.10 | ewanm89_laptop | A lot of people don't like using root user all the time. |
| 09:20.35 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@host-82-135-95-87.customer.m-online.net) |
| 09:21.56 | ewanm89_laptop | What this tells me is each package has it's own set of /etc files (as expected), so where are passwd and group |
| 09:21.57 | roh | ewanm89_laptop hehe... i'm shure that will be changed later... it just was not necessary for devels |
| 09:22.51 | ewanm89_laptop | roh: I know, I got the plan, I'm just getting the basics in place (someones got to get on and do it). |
| 09:24.02 | ewanm89_laptop | ./build/tmp/work/fic-gta01-linux/linux-gta01-2.6.21.5-moko10-r1_0_0_2360_0/image/etc, ./build/tmp/work/fic-gta01-linux/base-files-3.0.14-r61/install/base-files/etc or ./build/tmp/work/fic-gta01-linux/base-files-3.0.14-r61/image/etc seem likely. |
| 09:24.22 | roh | hehe |
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| 09:39.27 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Template:Languages]] [[Main_Page/cs]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Main_Page]] |
| 09:39.44 | *** join/#openmoko aesci99 (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 09:39.58 | ScaredyCat | A lot of people? eveyone should not want to do that! |
| 09:39.59 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: mokomakefile |
| 09:40.00 | mokobot | i guess mokomakefile is an automted method for downloading, updated, and compiling the latest openmoko code. |
| 09:40.10 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 09:40.27 | ScaredyCat | gah stupis scrolly crap |
| 09:40.46 | ewanm89_laptop | ScaredyCat: What's the problem? |
| 09:40.47 | ScaredyCat | s/gah stupis scrolly crap/something like that/ |
| 09:40.48 | mokobot | ScaredyCat meant: something like that |
| 09:40.57 | ScaredyCat | wtf ! |
| 09:41.01 | ScaredyCat | 2 bots?! |
| 09:41.16 | ewanm89_laptop | Yeah, sorry, but it will be better. |
| 09:41.31 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:41.36 | ScaredyCat | A lot of people? eveyone should not want to do that! |
| 09:41.37 | mokobot | Leaving. (courtesy of ewanm89_laptop). |
| 09:41.37 | *** part/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host86-152-202-37.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 09:41.43 | ScaredyCat | is what I meant.. |
| 09:41.57 | ewanm89_laptop | Ah, I'm working on it. |
| 09:41.58 | ScaredyCat | but i hadn't noticed about 20 hours had passed ;) |
| 09:42.41 | ewanm89_laptop | ScaredyCat: I wanted to stop this with the bot: |
| 09:42.48 | ScaredyCat | I really really hate my p910i :/ |
| 09:42.49 | ewanm89_laptop | apt: source |
| 09:42.50 | apt | To build Debian packages from source code: first, add a deb-src line to your sources.list file. Then "apt-get build-dep _pkg_" and "apt-get -b source _pkg_" to retrieve the build-dependencies, and the source. The resulting .deb files will be in `pwd`. |
| 09:43.17 | ewanm89_laptop | ScaredyCat: See the problem there. |
| 09:43.34 | ScaredyCat | apt apt |
| 09:43.35 | apt | [apt] the debian package manager and nothing to do with ibot, infobot, jbot or perl |
| 09:44.04 | ewanm89_laptop | So I've got a new bot setup (same codebase as apt). |
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| 09:45.56 | Placid | apt help |
| 09:46.26 | Placid | helpful little fellow isn't he. |
| 09:47.26 | Stephmw | heya |
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| 09:48.04 | Placid | herro |
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| 09:50.43 | woglinde | hi |
| 09:51.09 | CM | Morning :) |
| 09:51.40 | ewanm89_1aptop | Morning :) |
| 09:52.15 | woglinde | hm the exam wasnt so good, the questions qas fair, but my knowledge faided a bit |
| 09:54.12 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: mokomakefile |
| 09:54.12 | mokobot | [mokomakefile] an automted method for downloading, updated, and compiling the latest openmoko code. |
| 09:54.24 | woglinde | another bot? |
| 09:54.38 | Placid | heh |
| 09:54.45 | ewanm89_laptop | woglinde: But now it can have our own factfiles. |
| 09:54.46 | Placid | woglinde: what exam? |
| 09:55.28 | woglinde | mobil communication ;) |
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| 09:58.52 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: stats |
| 09:58.52 | mokobot | Since Wed Jul 18 09:50:29 2007, there have been 0 modifications, 1 question, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 0 commands. I have been awake for 8m 23s this session, and currently reference 2 factoids. I'm using about 49508 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 0.52/0.05 child 0/0 |
| 09:59.30 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: forget mokomakfile mokomakefile |
| 09:59.30 | mokobot | ewanm89_laptop: i didn't have anything called 'mokomakfile mokomakefile' to forget |
| 09:59.37 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: forget mokomakefile mokomakefile |
| 09:59.38 | mokobot | ewanm89_laptop: i forgot mokomakefile mokomakefile |
| 10:01.15 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@81.187.73.203) |
| 10:04.13 | ScaredyCat | mokobot: can I has an openmoko is <reply>No |
| 10:04.13 | mokobot | okay, ScaredyCat |
| 10:04.24 | ScaredyCat | can I has an openmoko?? |
| 10:04.32 | ScaredyCat | no ?? 's |
| 10:04.35 | ScaredyCat | :/ |
| 10:04.55 | ScaredyCat | mokobot: can I has an openmoko |
| 10:04.55 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=shark@59.176.111.177) |
| 10:04.55 | mokobot | No |
| 10:05.04 | empty_mind | anyone here with windows and openmoko phone ? |
| 10:05.12 | woglinde | *g* |
| 10:05.28 | ScaredyCat | win-what... |
| 10:05.59 | empty_mind | i want to know if the phone is detected on windows |
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| 10:06.34 | ScaredyCat | it'll probably be detected, by what as.. who knows... |
| 10:06.45 | ScaredyCat | mass storage, bt dongle .... |
| 10:06.56 | empty_mind | hmmm |
| 10:07.24 | empty_mind | and we dont ahve any windows based software in pipeline to make phone sync/function with windows |
| 10:07.28 | empty_mind | and OSX too |
| 10:07.39 | ScaredyCat | no, but we'll need them |
| 10:08.10 | ScaredyCat | well, unless we can just create conduits for outlook etc... and ringtones can be drap/dropped |
| 10:08.18 | ScaredyCat | drag |
| 10:10.30 | *** part/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 10:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@johnkerry.plus.com) |
| 10:13.43 | ewanm89_laptop | I thought we decided mass storage access might be a bad thing security wise. |
| 10:14.44 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass_ (n=chatzill@dyn1241-86.vpn.ic.ac.uk) |
| 10:16.10 | wibbit | empty_mind: Quite a few people have mentioned Funambol, as a method of providing cross platform syncing |
| 10:16.48 | jpcass_ | i looked at funambol last year, it was implemented in java |
| 10:16.59 | empty_mind | wibbit, you dont expect mass market end users to use funambol. Do you ? |
| 10:18.52 | wibbit | empty_mind: I'm not entirely sure if I expect mass market to use the openmoko just yet |
| 10:18.57 | *** join/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 10:19.14 | wibbit | And, as one person pointed out which I think seems quite sound, |
| 10:19.34 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 10:19.39 | wibbit | Not THAT many people sync their phones with their PC's from a contact/backup perspective, and those that do, are either semi enthusiast or business |
| 10:21.27 | ewanm89_laptop | Isn't there a well used cross platform system already available for various clients? |
| 10:22.02 | wibbit | I think the system is SyncML, which is open, it's the actual implementation of it |
| 10:22.40 | ewanm89_laptop | So the integration into kmail, outlook, evolution, thunderbird,... already exists? |
| 10:23.32 | wibbit | Outlook: Don't be daft, Kmail: Probably, Evolution: There are plugins, Thunderbird: Not sure |
| 10:23.49 | wibbit | ewanm89_laptop: I am not really the best person to ask. |
| 10:24.01 | wibbit | ewanm89_laptop: that's not to say Idon't have opinions though :) |
| 10:24.04 | ewanm89_laptop | As I thought then. |
| 10:25.36 | ewanm89_laptop | wibbit: So all these businessmen that want to sync can't use there favourite OS that they force on the rest of the word? |
| 10:25.44 | ewanm89_laptop | Nice. |
| 10:26.25 | wibbit | I am sure the female half of the species is also some what vexed by this possibility. |
| 10:26.46 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 10:26.58 | ewanm89_laptop | wibbit: I did consider it. |
| 10:27.16 | wibbit | However, there ARE options out there, type "syncml outlook" in google, and you get a fair few results |
| 10:28.04 | *** join/#openmoko veroli (n=oliver@BSN-95-206-165.dsl.siol.net) |
| 10:28.12 | jpcass_ | funambol make a syncml plugin for outlook |
| 10:29.32 | ewanm89_laptop | http://www.funambol.com/opensource/project/compatibility.html |
| 10:30.23 | empty_mind | openmoko is listed among service providers arounf funambol http://www.funambol.com/customers/ |
| 10:31.35 | ewanm89_laptop | Maybe the paid devs are working on something. |
| 10:31.45 | *** part/#openmoko p0rg1 (n=jans@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 10:37.20 | ewanm89_laptop | Has anyone got a neo yet? |
| 10:38.47 | XXLT | still using nokia, my mother can call me - so everything is fine :) |
| 10:39.09 | cjb_ie | so long as you don't have to edit a shell script to answer an incoming call :-) |
| 10:39.23 | XXLT | lol |
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| 10:44.45 | ewanm89_laptop | lol |
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| 10:47.04 | jpcass_ | anyone using the qemu emulator to run openmoko on their desktop :- using terminal does your keyboard work? |
| 10:47.35 | ewanm89_laptop | jpcass_: No, you have to emulate usb network and ssh in. |
| 10:47.48 | SpeedEvil | or use the onscreen keyb |
| 10:48.02 | roh | you can emulate a usb-hid keyboard also |
| 10:48.15 | jpcass_ | ewanm: can you tell me how to do that ? |
| 10:48.26 | ewanm89_laptop | roh: I should try that, as usb network isn't working for me. |
| 10:48.51 | jpcass_ | speedevil: can you tell me how to get the on screen keyboard up? |
| 10:48.57 | roh | ewanm89_laptop usb-network in qemu requires a module which is default not built on most distros |
| 10:49.00 | ewanm89_laptop | jpcass_: There is information on the wiki about emulating network. |
| 10:49.20 | ewanm89_laptop | roh: I'm on gentoo, the modules exist. |
| 10:50.24 | ewanm89_laptop | jpcass_: There is a grey rectangle to the right of the menu, this brings up the onscreen keyboard. |
| 10:51.10 | jpcass_ | thanks ewanm got keyboard now. the networking emulation looks tricky...need new kernel modules... |
| 10:51.52 | ewanm89_laptop | jpcass_: Hence why I haven't got it working. |
| 10:51.59 | jpcass_ | ;-) |
| 10:52.13 | ewanm89_laptop | I get an error on the last command to run. |
| 10:53.35 | jpcass_ | at last ps on my emu-moko! |
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| 11:03.17 | kemp | so we don't get a respond to YES_I_DO, is there any way to know that they actually got/processed the order? |
| 11:05.00 | Psi | not really |
| 11:05.15 | kemp | i see... |
| 11:05.21 | Psi | but i would expect them to send more emails if they dont get a responce |
| 11:05.33 | *** join/#openmoko ossman_ (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 11:06.13 | Psi | you could email them and ask, but then, everyone is in the same situation as you |
| 11:06.20 | Psi | so i wouldnt worry |
| 11:06.46 | kemp | Psi: ok, thanks, i'll just sit tight |
| 11:06.59 | jgm | kemp: watch your CC statement is the best idea |
| 11:07.05 | Psi | yeah, good idea |
| 11:07.24 | jpcass_ | i keep getting blank emails- only way i knew to send a YES I DO was by watching the wiki! |
| 11:07.57 | ScaredyCat | *blink* |
| 11:08.12 | Psi | blank emails, thats weird |
| 11:08.53 | jpcass_ | yeah, havent heard anyone else having this problem - might be something in yahoo mail ... |
| 11:09.06 | aloril | (script) planet: Koen Kooi: Webkit-gdk running on neo 400km way using remote-X http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/webkit-gdk-running-on-neo-400km-way-using-remote-x |
| 11:10.12 | ScaredyCat | bet that's fast :P |
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| 11:16.45 | ScaredyCat | you're not really missing that much jpcass_ |
| 11:18.19 | *** join/#openmoko jg1 (n=jgm@149.254.200.218) |
| 11:18.23 | jpcass_ | is it basically 'thank you very much, please wait' |
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| 11:19.24 | ScaredyCat | errm, yeah... |
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| 11:19.30 | ScaredyCat | if you're being polite |
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| 11:37.02 | skuff | hey all |
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| 11:39.07 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Openstreetmap]] [[Main_Page/cs]] [[GPS_Navigation]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Main_Page]] |
| 11:39.17 | ewanm89_laptop | Hey skuff |
| 11:40.11 | skuff | do u know if theres an icq-like project fpr openmoko? |
| 11:40.11 | aloril | skuff: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:41.06 | ewanm89_laptop | skuff: It has been bought up several times, but I don't think anything has been started yet. |
| 11:42.28 | ewanm89_laptop | A port of pidgin keeps getting mentioned. |
| 11:42.38 | Placid | was gonna suggest a port of GAIM/Pidgin |
| 11:42.46 | CM | Or something telepahy based |
| 11:42.53 | skuff | id like to write an ui for libpurple |
| 11:43.01 | Any_Key | I'll repeat question, I've a problem building devel image on Debian unstable with mokomakefile. Error on compiling coreutils-5.3.0, as I recall from errorlog "futimens" in utimens.h has conflicting type declaration |
| 11:43.04 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@p54891509.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:43.11 | Any_Key | any suggestions? |
| 11:43.31 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 11:43.59 | ewanm89_laptop | Any_Key: Without the exact error message I don't know. |
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| 11:44.12 | CM | *sigh* Not.. |
| 11:44.54 | Any_Key | ewanm89_laptop, heh wait a minute/ |
| 11:45.10 | *** join/#openmoko cheesy (n=daniel@pd95b5e66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:45.45 | CM | http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/webkit-gdk-running-on-neo-400km-way-using-remote-x |
| 11:47.27 | Any_Key | ewanm89_laptop, http://pastebin.com/mdfbb425 |
| 11:49.16 | webjames | has everyone seen this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/17/gps_galileo_tieup_could_be_agreed/ ? |
| 11:50.38 | rwhitby | Any_Key: you said Debian unstable, right? |
| 11:50.51 | Any_Key | rwhitby, yeah |
| 11:50.53 | CM | Yes, but does anyone know for sure that there's no updates needed to the hardware? |
| 11:51.10 | cjb_ie | webjames: seems like a reasonable position for the EU to be taking really. |
| 11:51.16 | CM | webjames: I'm assuming old gps chips should work, the frequency and all is the same |
| 11:51.22 | Any_Key | rwhitby, glib2.6 |
| 11:51.49 | SpeedEvil | CM: GPS has a limited in hardware number of satellites - there can be only 30! |
| 11:51.57 | *** join/#openmoko p0rg1 (n=jans@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 11:51.57 | SpeedEvil | (to paraphrase highlander) |
| 11:52.02 | webjames | it's combining the gallio and gps systems, i think to get the advantages of using both you might need a dual receiver |
| 11:52.07 | CM | SpeedEvil: Ouch, what crap.. |
| 11:52.08 | rwhitby | Any_Key: I'd try proving it's not Debian unstable's fault first :-) |
| 11:52.10 | SpeedEvil | There are already 26 |
| 11:52.16 | SpeedEvil | Or is it 28 |
| 11:52.20 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: got a source for that statement? |
| 11:52.39 | SpeedEvil | I'm speaking here of the basic L1 code. |
| 11:52.57 | SpeedEvil | There are 32 possible PRNs - sequences to generate spreading codes. |
| 11:53.04 | SpeedEvil | 2 of these are reserved. |
| 11:53.07 | cjb_ie | so essentially a limited number of bits for satellite id? |
| 11:53.16 | SpeedEvil | Not quite. |
| 11:53.39 | SpeedEvil | The bits are an index into a small configuration table, to setup the psuedo-random generators. |
| 11:53.53 | SpeedEvil | The psuedo-random signal is different per satellite |
| 11:53.59 | SpeedEvil | and there are only 32 defined |
| 11:54.39 | SpeedEvil | The signal is recieved by knowing the PRN sequence per satellite, and comparing the signal recieved with the signal you know must have been sent. |
| 11:54.42 | ScaredyCat | who was it that needed some stuff on computer room ac ???? |
| 11:55.04 | cjb_ie | are there any satellite orbits antipodean to each other? i.e. pairs of satellites that you can guarantee will never both be visible at once from a receiver? |
| 11:55.07 | Any_Key | as I see I has declaration of futimens in /usr/include/sys/stat.h line 370: "extern int futimens (int __fd, __const struct timespec __times[2]) __THROW;" |
| 11:55.23 | Any_Key | on Debian machine |
| 11:55.32 | SpeedEvil | cjb: in principle yes, in practice, that's gonna screw up most recievers. |
| 11:55.53 | SpeedEvil | cjb: as they will only expect one satellite per PRN |
| 11:56.09 | SpeedEvil | I'm not saying that this can't be done for future use, on a slightly different signal. |
| 11:56.28 | cjb_ie | right, so you'd need to generate custom ephemeris for different locations, which would be absolutely horrid. |
| 11:56.29 | Any_Key | and /home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/coreutils-native-5.3.0-r1/coreutils-5.3.0/lib/utimens.h has differrent declaration |
| 11:56.30 | SpeedEvil | But it will not work on current recievers |
| 11:56.38 | SpeedEvil | And different times. |
| 11:56.43 | cjb_ie | unworkably horrid. |
| 11:56.45 | SpeedEvil | Teh satellites are in 12 hour orbits |
| 11:56.48 | rwhitby | Any_Key: no such definition of futimens in stat.h on my Debian stable. |
| 11:57.00 | rwhitby | looks like unstable has bitten you |
| 11:57.03 | SpeedEvil | Also, when both are on the horizon, you could see both |
| 11:58.03 | Any_Key | rwhitby, the problem as I see remainsin ubuntu to |
| 11:58.23 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: right, i forgot to allow for height of orbit |
| 11:58.48 | rwhitby | Any_Key: what glibc is that running? |
| 11:59.02 | SpeedEvil | The 'newer' codes that some of the GPS satellites are transmitting fixes this though. |
| 11:59.05 | SpeedEvil | (the 32 limit) |
| 11:59.14 | SpeedEvil | 30 |
| 11:59.17 | rwhitby | "unbuntu" is not a very specific term when tracking down library version differences |
| 11:59.44 | Any_Key | rwhitby, 2.6-2 in unstable |
| 12:00.19 | rwhitby | unstable again. I'm afraid you're going to have to get used to stuff like this if you run unstable when building openmoko. |
| 12:00.30 | *** part/#openmoko Mark__T (i=86630288@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-466a97039678caf9) |
| 12:00.32 | Any_Key | rwhitby, <kristian-m> said gutsy has the problem |
| 12:00.43 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: right, so will older/current receivers have problems with the newer codes? |
| 12:00.49 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 12:00.55 | SpeedEvil | They simply don't pick them up. |
| 12:01.02 | SpeedEvil | It's a lock and key sort of thing. |
| 12:01.18 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 12:01.20 | SpeedEvil | The reciever has 30 'locks' it can choose between. |
| 12:01.29 | SpeedEvil | Only the signal from the specified satellite fits them. |
| 12:01.35 | cjb_ie | i guess in some cases a firmware fix will resolve it, but in others the hardware will only handle those 30 codes |
| 12:01.41 | Any_Key | rwhitby, looks like I've to downgrade ;-) |
| 12:01.45 | SpeedEvil | In most cases, it's hardware. |
| 12:01.49 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 12:01.51 | SpeedEvil | There are signal changes too. |
| 12:02.16 | Any_Key | rwhitby, or chroot myself to stable |
| 12:02.40 | rwhitby | yeah, chroot to etch would do it. |
| 12:03.12 | SpeedEvil | ^r |
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| 12:04.58 | Any_Key | rwhitby, good, thanks a lot |
| 12:06.35 | cjb_ie | the iphone is a revolution in phone technologies. here are the instructions for using a custom ringtone: http://www.hacktheiphone.com/iphone_ringtone_installation.html |
| 12:07.02 | cjb_ie | this is why we want an open platform... 23 steps to change the ringtone on the iphone, including hacking the firmware. |
| 12:07.11 | cjb_ie | that's just nucking futs. |
| 12:07.54 | skuff | lol |
| 12:08.40 | skuff | all i want is a terminal and ssh on my phone :) |
| 12:09.20 | oelewapperke | and a decent screen and keyboard |
| 12:09.23 | guaqua | i want a reasonable way to develop software - and it's only going to happen with open source |
| 12:12.01 | oelewapperke | and more sensors |
| 12:12.01 | skuff | will there be usb-keyboard support? ... or usb-mouse :P |
| 12:12.01 | woglinde | provide power |
| 12:12.10 | oelewapperke | I would have like 2x4 buttons on the neo |
| 12:12.10 | ScaredyCat | by the power of greyskull.... |
| 12:12.38 | guaqua | skuff: neo has unpowered usb so you powered hub inbetween |
| 12:12.50 | guaqua | skuff: any usb keyboard supported by linux should work |
| 12:13.01 | *** join/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dantaliz@n128-227-99-148.xlate.ufl.edu) |
| 12:13.06 | guaqua | bluetooth is a nicer way though |
| 12:13.13 | oelewapperke | bluetooth keyboard is prolly better |
| 12:13.14 | oelewapperke | for neo |
| 12:13.32 | oelewapperke | http://www.t3.co.uk/__data/assets/image/279644/iTechBluetoothKeyboard_445.jpg |
| 12:13.37 | skuff | cant wait to order the next neo :) |
| 12:13.45 | guaqua | less wires is always better when you are on the move |
| 12:14.03 | skuff | right |
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| 12:14.16 | guaqua | i don't know about the security of the bluetooth keyboards, though |
| 12:14.19 | oelewapperke | sucks that they need batteries |
| 12:14.46 | guaqua | i don't see a problem with that |
| 12:14.58 | woglinde | guaqua if you dont know the pin its safety |
| 12:14.58 | guaqua | rechargeables work well |
| 12:15.15 | oelewapperke | I do wonder about the accelerometers |
| 12:15.16 | guaqua | woglinde: what kind of encryption does it use? |
| 12:15.21 | cjb_ie | woglinde: how easy is it to snoop the traffic and deduce the pin though? |
| 12:15.34 | oelewapperke | gps + accelerometer for "normal" movements rocks |
| 12:15.40 | woglinde | cjb_ie hm |
| 12:15.41 | woglinde | sorry |
| 12:15.46 | woglinde | the pin isnt enough |
| 12:16.00 | woglinde | in first contact the devices handles key |
| 12:16.02 | woglinde | like ssh |
| 12:16.07 | woglinde | and store them |
| 12:16.14 | woglinde | and than they have sesseions keys |
| 12:16.27 | woglinde | depending on the stored key |
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| 12:23.32 | kiney | counter |
| 12:23.33 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in a day 11:48:13 (1.492±1.5 days) (1757;248) |
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| 13:03.10 | *** part/#openmoko p0rg1 (n=jans@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 13:03.22 | ScaredyCat | don't you ob me |
| 13:03.32 | Any_Key | oc |
| 13:03.46 | Any_Key | ko |
| 13:03.49 | Any_Key | ck |
| 13:03.53 | ScaredyCat | ono |
| 13:03.54 | *** join/#openmoko andylockran (n=andylock@82-36-184-134.cable.ubr03.soli.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 13:03.55 | Any_Key | hm |
| 13:04.04 | Any_Key | aaaa OK |
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| 13:11.32 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: seen cjb_ie |
| 13:11.32 | mokobot | cjb_ie is currently on #openmoko. Has said a total of 13 messages. Is idling for 56m 11s, last said: 'woglinde: how easy is it to snoop the traffic and deduce the pin though?'. |
| 13:12.46 | cjb_ie | ewanm89_laptop: 'sup? |
| 13:12.53 | cjb_ie | or were you looking for cjb |
| 13:13.12 | *** join/#openmoko juco (n=vickeryj@12.38.10.116) |
| 13:14.00 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass_ (n=chatzill@johnkerry.plus.com) |
| 13:14.43 | CM | cjb_ie: Heh, so you're not cjb? Confusing.. |
| 13:15.05 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-f91c5bd7929b28f5) |
| 13:15.16 | cjb_ie | i used to be a cjb many years ago, but had too many nick collisions on different irc networks. |
| 13:15.42 | cjb_ie | then i registered cjb.ie and decided this was a good compromise. |
| 13:16.18 | ewanm89_laptop | I was testing the bot. |
| 13:16.22 | ewanm89_laptop | gtg be |
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| 13:18.15 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: seen cjb |
| 13:18.15 | mokobot | ewanm89_laptop: i haven't seen 'cjb' |
| 13:18.24 | ewanm89_laptop | bye |
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| 13:29.28 | ScaredyCat | ewon: |
| 13:29.34 | ScaredyCat | err |
| 13:29.56 | ScaredyCat | seen openmoko deliveries |
| 13:30.02 | ScaredyCat | seen openmoko deliveries? |
| 13:30.04 | ScaredyCat | seen openmoko deliveries?? |
| 13:30.09 | ScaredyCat | sigh |
| 13:30.15 | Sup3rkiddo | seen god |
| 13:30.17 | ScaredyCat | mokobot: seen openmoko deliveries? |
| 13:30.32 | ScaredyCat | sean bean |
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| 13:31.16 | galexande | waiting for godot! |
| 13:31.36 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@rt94.highlink.ru) |
| 13:31.41 | cheesy | mokobot: seen mokobot |
| 13:32.01 | freskog_work | mokobot: seen the light |
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| 13:32.42 | ScaredyCat | s/godot/mokobot/ |
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| 13:33.07 | cheesy | mokobot: seen death |
| 13:34.19 | woglinde | mokobot: destroy your self |
| 13:34.33 | ewon | ScaredyCat: ? |
| 13:34.41 | ScaredyCat | typo ewon |
| 13:34.51 | ewon | k |
| 13:35.22 | CM | FYI: 15:26 -!- mokobot [n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-25.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] |
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| 13:36.26 | ScaredyCat | we don't care.... |
| 13:36.35 | galexande | i cant has bot |
| 13:36.41 | ScaredyCat | we're used to saking questions and getting no answers ;) |
| 13:36.45 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|guadec (n=mickey@81.187.73.203) |
| 13:37.02 | CM | ScaredyCat: Hehe.. Sad but true ;) |
| 13:39.26 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:ExpansionSpacer]] [[Wish_List]] [[Wishlist:Expansion_Back]] [[Introduction/cs]] [[Main_Page/cs]] |
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| 14:51.30 | PBeck | hi |
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| 14:54.45 | Sup3rkiddo | hi |
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| 15:00.01 | don-o | any news of people getting ups tracking codes? |
| 15:00.05 | SpeedEvil | Nope. |
| 15:00.10 | SpeedEvil | Nor getting phones. |
| 15:00.16 | SpeedEvil | Nor getting CCs charged. |
| 15:00.35 | SpeedEvil | Nor hearing wandering minstrels proclaiming the wonders of the Neo1973 throughout the land. |
| 15:00.46 | Fatal | I was just about to make a quick comment that I've never been so eager to see money disappear from my bank :) |
| 15:00.58 | mmazur | ditto |
| 15:01.03 | don-o | ok. the 'projects of interest?' thread on community list has a lot of neat ideas. |
| 15:02.21 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@wlan-client-108.informatik.uni-bremen.de) |
| 15:02.41 | SpeedEvil | Many are covered in some way on the wishlists. |
| 15:03.01 | SpeedEvil | Now at least [[Wish List]] is sort-of-readable again. |
| 15:03.11 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: was it you talking about a touch strip on the side of the case? |
| 15:03.22 | SpeedEvil | I've talked of that in the past. |
| 15:03.34 | SpeedEvil | It is one of the hardware options I intend to implement. |
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| 15:07.35 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: implement only for yourself? or will this case mod be available for sale? |
| 15:08.54 | *** part/#openmoko laljfs (n=noone@213-202-176-54.bas504.dsl.esat.net) |
| 15:09.39 | *** part/#openmoko mafeu (i=3ece5d43@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-56e6a21bbce9e585) |
| 15:10.37 | SpeedEvil | I intend over the several weeks after I obtain a Neo, to offer various stuff for sale. |
| 15:11.14 | DukeOfUrl | SpeedEvil: with an RFID antenna around the perimeter of the inside of the Neo case, what's the maximum distance at which an RFID can be read? |
| 15:11.32 | galexande | heh. |
| 15:11.35 | SpeedEvil | This will vary from simple devices, that plug into the debug port and bluetooth port, and add options like touchpads, accelerometers, and 'stuff'. |
| 15:11.57 | oelewapperke | DukeOfUrl: as that antenna is very sure not to have the correct frequency ... 0 :-p |
| 15:11.57 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfUrl: some 5-10cm or so. |
| 15:12.09 | SpeedEvil | Probably not 20. |
| 15:12.23 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: in doing so, we'd lose bluetooth? |
| 15:12.24 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:12.27 | SpeedEvil | The signal falls off as distance^4 |
| 15:12.30 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: no. |
| 15:12.47 | summatusmentis | oh, I misunderstood what plugging into the bluetooth port meant |
| 15:12.50 | galexande | distance^4? is that because it can only receive what it sends? |
| 15:12.50 | SpeedEvil | Bluetooth module plugs into another socket |
| 15:12.54 | galexande | er, send what it receives |
| 15:13.11 | DukeOfUrl | SpeedEvil: is an RFID antenna a coil or can it be a single strand? |
| 15:13.13 | SpeedEvil | galexande: It's sort-of-that |
| 15:13.25 | SpeedEvil | For low-frequency stuff, it's gotta be a coil |
| 15:13.33 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: interesting... keep me posted will you? |
| 15:14.01 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 15:14.16 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: A page will at some point appear in the wiki if I end up with stuff for sale. |
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| 15:15.37 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: cool |
| 15:15.46 | ScaredyCat | qprox SpeedEvil? |
| 15:17.55 | SpeedEvil | http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/ri-ant-s01c-00.html DukeOfUrl: |
| 15:18.02 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat qprox? |
| 15:18.16 | ScaredyCat | for the touch strip.. ? |
| 15:18.27 | ScaredyCat | qprox do some nice stuff in that line |
| 15:19.16 | SpeedEvil | Ah - no. |
| 15:19.16 | SpeedEvil | AD |
| 15:19.18 | ScaredyCat | http://www.qprox.com/products/qslide_qt411.php |
| 15:19.34 | SpeedEvil | they've got a nice 16 input capacitance A/D for $1.6 in 1000s, over I2C |
| 15:20.14 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:20.36 | Sup3rkiddo | http://www.freeopenmoko.com/ <-- wtf! |
| 15:20.38 | SpeedEvil | !google 1 dollar in pounds |
| 15:20.40 | cdbot2 | 1 U.S. dollar = 0.491086775 British pounds |
| 15:20.47 | galexande | neat, scaredycat |
| 15:20.50 | Sup3rkiddo | oh wait, didnt see the lists |
| 15:21.17 | ScaredyCat | are there any tourists in the US? |
| 15:21.27 | juco | ouch |
| 15:21.33 | mmazur | Yeah, but they're called terrorists. |
| 15:22.01 | don-o | Sup3rkiddo: yeah thats pretty hideous |
| 15:22.13 | juco | "Mark from New York |
| 15:22.13 | juco | I couldn't believe I got my free OpenMoko so FAST! It only took me 2 days of doing surveys to get it too." |
| 15:22.13 | galexande | i've decided that i could use one of these touch slide things to do strafe, and then i could play doom on the neo |
| 15:22.50 | Sup3rkiddo | don-o, hehe, "I got my openmoko fast", i have openmoko too...its the neo which i am lacking |
| 15:23.02 | juco | "Stylus |
| 15:23.02 | juco | Heavy Duty, Pen, Laser, Flash Light" |
| 15:23.16 | ScaredyCat | get that through customs. |
| 15:23.36 | _diego_ | !google 1 dollar in euro |
| 15:23.37 | cdbot2 | 1 U.S. dollar = 0.725478816 Euros |
| 15:23.59 | don-o | !google 1 dollar in baht |
| 15:23.59 | cdbot2 | 1 U.S. dollar = 30.1577249 Thai baht |
| 15:24.00 | juco | "However, when based on Open standards, they will deliver ubiquitous computing and vanish. " |
| 15:24.03 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 15:24.04 | juco | awesome |
| 15:24.13 | juco | I want a vanishing OS |
| 15:24.53 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:25.24 | ScaredyCat | !google 1 dollar in zobs |
| 15:25.26 | cdbot2 | Did you mean: 1 dollar in jobs ? | Images @ http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=1+dollar+in+zobs&safe=off&lr=lang_all&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi | Day and Night - PalmGear.com: Download P @ http://palmgear.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=software.showsoftware&PartnerREF=&siteid=1&prodid=52879&siteid=1%20class=l |
| 15:25.37 | ScaredyCat | yoink! |
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| 15:26.21 | ScaredyCat | what?? |
| 15:26.25 | ScaredyCat | moo |
| 15:26.52 | Sup3rkiddo | ScaredyCat, poor cdbot2 ..don't abuse him :D |
| 15:27.22 | ScaredyCat | can I just point out that if there's anyone reading this who should be charging cc's and packing boxes... if you don't ship by 3:30 today (CA time) I wont get it by Friday... |
| 15:27.31 | SpeedEvil | galexande: I hope to have one through-the-case touchpad, http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/thumb/8/89/FIC-neo1973_small.jpg/200px-FIC-neo1973_small.jpg basically over the FIC logo, up and down to 5mm or so away from the edge of the case, and left and right to more or less the edges of the phone. |
| 15:28.18 | SpeedEvil | And a touch-strip maybe the middle half of each side of the top of the case. |
| 15:28.33 | SpeedEvil | Also, proper dock-port on the back of my phone. |
| 15:30.50 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@desdemona.cns.ualberta.ca) |
| 15:31.20 | ScaredyCat | like the ipod type thing SpeedEvil? |
| 15:31.32 | ScaredyCat | taking audio etc all to 1 port |
| 15:32.33 | ScaredyCat | they do wheel stuff too galexande |
| 15:32.45 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: basically a USB port only. |
| 15:32.48 | galexande | yeah the strip can be configured in any shape |
| 15:36.51 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 15:38.26 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Kheldar]] [[Unresolved_Hardware_Questions]] [[Translation]] [[Wish_List]] [[User:Micktaiwan]] [[Talk:Mebot]] [[Mebot]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[UI_Improvements]] [[FAQ]] [[Disassembling_Neo1973]] [[Neo1973_Hardware]] [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] and other changes |
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| 15:39.22 | daMaestro | grrr 7-23 |
| 15:39.38 | daMaestro | i wonder if i complain every day if it will help things to go better next time |
| 15:40.02 | SpeedEvil | They'll send you the ninjas. |
| 15:40.09 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 15:40.24 | ScaredyCat | well if they're sending ninjas, how about they bring some phones |
| 15:42.45 | galexande | god damn slow-charging credit card |
| 15:43.20 | C7_ | let's send THEM some ninjas to take some work off the shoulders of harald ;) |
| 15:43.38 | galexande | yeah it seems like they should at least have some sort of ecommerce guru |
| 15:43.53 | galexande | maybe a facilities manager wrapped into that |
| 15:45.11 | don-o | for realz. im surrounded by web developers all day and when i read openmoko.com is a perl cgi script i gaged |
| 15:45.21 | Kero | trust me, you don't want an appointed ecommerce guru from within a big company. let alone an xyz manager... |
| 15:45.37 | ScaredyCat | or even just a checkout girl from wallmart |
| 15:45.44 | galexande | oh of course, i don't mean they need to do it corporate style |
| 15:45.52 | Kero | ok. |
| 15:46.07 | galexande | but there are dozens of people like me who are serious programmers but who have been put in charge of ecommerce sites before and wouldn't object to it as the center of a job |
| 15:46.07 | daMaestro | there is nothing wrong with perl |
| 15:46.14 | galexande | but would, like harald, get pissed off if it was added on top of a full plate |
| 15:46.47 | Kero | 'coz I guess Neo can attract an external ecommerce guru, who *does* know his stuff :) |
| 15:46.57 | don-o | daMaestro: perl is fine but it sounds like it was hand-coded without the help of a web framework |
| 15:47.10 | galexande | web frameworks are bullshit :) |
| 15:47.21 | daMaestro | you know, there *is* web development outside of frameworks |
| 15:47.56 | daMaestro | the point: it got the job done? yes? |
| 15:47.59 | galexande | harald's gripes though...he had to deal with merchant bank issues. that's nothing if it's what you're doing, but if you're doing it in a hurry because it absolutely needs to get done and no one else is doing it, it's a huge stressful headache |
| 15:48.07 | Kero | just use the 'proper' framework ? |
| 15:48.41 | Kero | but there must be someone in FIC who knows the merchant bank stuff |
| 15:48.53 | galexande | kero, fic is mostly "b2b" |
| 15:48.55 | Kero | it's not the kind of wheel that needs any reinventing... |
| 15:48.56 | ScaredyCat | arse meet elbow |
| 15:49.17 | galexande | so if they use fic staff then everything will be managed as if they are shipping 30,000 units to at&t |
| 15:49.17 | SpeedEvil | Even an ebay store would have been better. |
| 15:49.46 | ScaredyCat | galexande: as long as they send the bill to at&t :) |
| 15:49.55 | galexande | well an ebay store is just as much work to set up. the problem isn't the approach they chose, but the fact that the same guy was doing it as was doing everything else |
| 15:50.01 | Kero | i'm not saying there's many of those someones, or that it is easy to find them. |
| 15:50.10 | jgm | Yeah there are lots of pre-built ecommerce sites that they could have used. They could even have set up an amazon associate site to handle it |
| 15:50.18 | SpeedEvil | An ebay store is _much_less_ work to setup - if you're willing to do paypal. |
| 15:50.33 | SpeedEvil | Or any other third party payment processor. |
| 15:50.51 | galexande | paypal is probably the least convenient of any merchant banks. it's not hard to set up what they did set up. the hard part is making it all come together. |
| 15:51.03 | galexande | and that's pretty much the same task no matter what frameworks or so on you use |
| 15:51.04 | jgm | A bit worrying that their first thought was "right let's code something from scratch" rather than "how can we use an existing infrastructure to meet our goal quickly" |
| 15:51.15 | SpeedEvil | Ebay/paypal - from the users perspective - just works. |
| 15:51.18 | galexande | why are you all focused on the code |
| 15:51.19 | SpeedEvil | It's really simple to setup. |
| 15:51.20 | galexande | the code was nothing |
| 15:51.27 | galexande | the code is not the hard part of the task, if it was, harald would have done it and smiled about it |
| 15:51.29 | ewon | using RT was a giant, flaming mistake. |
| 15:51.42 | SpeedEvil | It's already setup, and there are no glitches, as it's been used for billions of transactions. |
| 15:51.50 | *** join/#openmoko goloo (n=goloo@host126-46-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:52.18 | galexande | ebay/paypal does nothing about shipping schedules, inventory, shitty merchant banks, good shipping rates, distribution/packing, and so on |
| 15:52.23 | galexande | paypal *is* a glitch |
| 15:53.03 | galexande | if they did paypal then they would have had to hire a lawyer by now to deal with the slashdot weenies who can't comprehend a paypal refund when they send CANCEL instead of YES_I_DO |
| 15:53.04 | SpeedEvil | It fixes the merchant bank thing. And there are trivial solutions to print labels from paypal invoices. |
| 15:53.33 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@81-208-83-247.fastres.net) |
| 15:54.13 | *** join/#openmoko davi (n=davi@80.30.83.12) |
| 15:54.21 | galexande | paypal is one merchant bank with extraordinarily poor rates, an extraordinarily unfortunate contract, and an interface which is not really any more or less convenient than any other |
| 15:54.32 | galexande | their only advantage is that they don't require you to have a pre-existing relationship with them to use them. but FIC is already related to many banks |
| 15:54.50 | Kensan | AFAIK FIC owns a bank in Taiwan. |
| 15:54.57 | SpeedEvil | But many users already know it. And there are tens of thousands of turnkey stores out there. |
| 15:55.09 | mmazur | They soud evil. |
| 15:55.29 | galexande | the store is not the hard part. the store that they have is like 100 lines of perl code |
| 15:55.40 | galexande | it would take 100 lines of perl code just to satisfactorily interface with ebay |
| 15:55.48 | galexande | one way or the other |
| 15:55.49 | SpeedEvil | You don't interface with ebay. |
| 15:56.06 | SpeedEvil | You setup a store, and use one of the many turnkey packages to print your labels. |
| 15:56.13 | juco | what's the problem? |
| 15:56.21 | ScaredyCat | I blame aliens |
| 15:56.34 | juco | it seems like the webfront isn't much of an issue |
| 15:56.36 | SpeedEvil | This is literally an hour or under of work, and pretty much 'just works'. |
| 15:56.46 | SpeedEvil | Takes payment, prints labels, ... |
| 15:57.08 | daMaestro | i would be pissed if i had been charged, and the phone had not shipped as of yet |
| 15:57.10 | *** join/#openmoko FourDollars (n=FourDoll@59-104-128-37.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 15:57.13 | galexande | speed, you should go work for openmoko.com, you are freshly naive about business issues :) |
| 15:57.23 | daMaestro | at this point i am just a non-very-happy potential customer |
| 15:57.41 | daMaestro | i've still not lost any money |
| 15:57.43 | SpeedEvil | I know about the potential issues - it's just that untested code is BAD. |
| 15:57.50 | juco | I don't get it, what's the big deal? |
| 15:58.01 | galexande | untested code is the absolute least of their worries, though. |
| 15:58.10 | duffyd | galexande: I also think he's freshly naive about *Taiwanese* business issues ;-) |
| 15:58.19 | galexande | duffy, indubitably |
| 15:58.28 | ewon | I've emailed laforge with the details of a company I've dealth with before that does ecommerce solutions |
| 15:58.30 | ScaredyCat | Sherlock ? |
| 15:58.33 | duffyd | I live here and it's a madness :-) |
| 15:58.42 | galexande | i loved reading harald's description of taiwenese computer stores, it reminded me of chinatown :) |
| 15:58.53 | jgm | I agree with SpeedEvil here. You can say that they have a number of challenges coming up but that doesn't mean that doing a half-assed job of the ordering system was the right thing to do |
| 15:59.04 | duffyd | galexande: I laughed too. I can only relate too well |
| 15:59.09 | jgm | And little things like online order status are always nice... |
| 15:59.48 | juco | hmm, this is all for development hardware |
| 16:00.36 | duffyd | I'm of the opinion that technology is not the issue here - that's based on Harald's blog entries and my personal experience here :-) |
| 16:01.01 | ckuethe | SpeedEvil: reading the scroolback, there can be 32 PRNs in a navstar almanac |
| 16:01.03 | Kero | jgm: I don't think they did a half-assed job |
| 16:01.06 | SpeedEvil | No - it's trying too hard to get a solution that would work for tens of thousands of phones. |
| 16:01.10 | Kero | we're ordering P1, not P2 :) |
| 16:01.13 | galexande | one thing that might have been nice about using an off-site ecommerce solution would have been better slashdot resistance |
| 16:01.44 | SpeedEvil | ckuethe: Indeed - however 2 of them are reserved and failed, indicating satellites that should not be used for generating positions. |
| 16:01.46 | ckuethe | 15 is not in the almanac right now - up until mar 15, they were doing end-of-life testing on it |
| 16:02.08 | SpeedEvil | ckuethe: or it may be 4- I don't remember, and I can't find where I found the info. |
| 16:02.44 | daMaestro | Kero, if the issues are not address now, p2 wont go any better |
| 16:03.03 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:03.04 | daMaestro | we are expected to be a large part of the development of the platform. |
| 16:03.09 | ckuethe | and PRN32/SVN23 (transmitted as #0 in the NAV stream) went into the almanac on jun 21 |
| 16:03.18 | daMaestro | it is our job to state opinion on things like this |
| 16:03.54 | ckuethe | SpeedEvil: subscribe to the status lists .... |
| 16:03.56 | ckuethe | http://cgls.uscg.mil/mailman/listinfo/nanu |
| 16:04.14 | ckuethe | http://cgls.uscg.mil/mailman/listinfo/gps |
| 16:04.31 | ckuethe | or http://www.celestrak.com/GPS/ |
| 16:04.48 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:05.23 | galexande | october is a ridiculous date and anyone who believes it is high, btw :) |
| 16:05.49 | phrozen77_ | duh |
| 16:05.49 | galexande | (registering my prediction) |
| 16:05.57 | ScaredyCat | dude, like , woooaaahh - you know... |
| 16:06.09 | SpeedEvil | ckuethe: Hmm. |
| 16:06.35 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2350.bb.online.no) |
| 16:06.36 | SpeedEvil | ckuethe: I'm completely sure I'm right, however, as I can't find anything to back it up, I guess I must be mistaken. |
| 16:07.39 | ckuethe | if you read the archives, you'll see that prn15 was totally decommissioned on mar15 |
| 16:07.48 | ckuethe | it'll be recycled |
| 16:08.30 | SpeedEvil | I knew there were 'failed' bits in the nav message - but I also thought there were specific PRNs for failed satellites, in order to make sure they can't interfere. |
| 16:08.44 | ckuethe | there's a way to mark the health of the satellite |
| 16:08.51 | ckuethe | health field should be 0 |
| 16:09.01 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - in the nav message. And also accuracy estimates |
| 16:09.02 | ckuethe | any non-zero bits detail the various failure modes |
| 16:09.28 | ckuethe | also, when a satellite is unhealthy it transmits something other than the usual PRN |
| 16:09.44 | ckuethe | what that is is not published |
| 16:09.53 | ckuethe | because you're not supposed to be able to track it |
| 16:10.23 | Kero | daMaestro: they are learning with P1 what the issues are. So they will solve them before P2, I trust. |
| 16:10.37 | SpeedEvil | You mean one other than the defined 0-31? - using different taps? |
| 16:11.06 | ckuethe | "ON 2 APR 2007, SVN23 WILL RESUME TRANSMITTING L-BAND UTILIZING PRN32. |
| 16:11.06 | ckuethe | AT L-BAND ACTIVATION, SVN23/PRN32 WILL BE UNUSABLE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. |
| 16:11.06 | ckuethe | ADDITIONALLY, NO BROADCAST ALMANACS WILL INCLUDE SVN23/PRN32. Â FUTURE |
| 16:11.06 | ckuethe | NANUS WILL NOTIFY USERS OF ANY CHANGES TO THE ABOVE-STATED STATUS." |
| 16:11.16 | ckuethe | however the broadcast almanac recently began including prn32 |
| 16:11.39 | ckuethe | my oldest active receiver at the moment (sirfstar2) doesn't mind |
| 16:11.53 | ckuethe | haven't tried my oncore or my jupiter yet |
| 16:12.08 | SpeedEvil | You mean 32 - as in 1-32? |
| 16:12.17 | ckuethe | 0-32 |
| 16:12.19 | ckuethe | 0-31 |
| 16:12.39 | ckuethe | but slot 0 in the almanac/emphemeris maps to prn32 |
| 16:12.44 | SpeedEvil | 32 diddn't have a defined tap sequence did it? |
| 16:12.50 | SpeedEvil | oh - right |
| 16:12.59 | SpeedEvil | I see, it's a naming issue |
| 16:13.14 | ckuethe | "ON 27 JUN 2007, AFTER 2200 ZULU, GPS WILL TRANSITION SVN23 (PRN32) INTO THE BROADCAST ALMANACS FOR ALL SATELLITES. Â THIS ALMANAC TRANSITION, ONE SATELLITE AT A TIME, WILL REQUIRE APPROXIMATELY 24 HOURS TO COMPLETE. BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER TRANSITION, SVN23 (PRN32) WILL REMAIN UNUSABLE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. Â FUTURE NANUSWILL NOTIFY USERS OF ANY CHANGES TO THE ABOVE-STATED STATUS." |
| 16:13.25 | SpeedEvil | I thought you meant using non-standard (according to the receivers) tapping |
| 16:14.50 | ckuethe | if i understand correctly, when an SV goes unhealthy, a) it transmits a non-standard code so receivers can't track it, and b) it's set to unhealthy in the health message so receivers don't even bother trying |
| 16:15.11 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@thurgood-marshall.sflc.info) |
| 16:15.25 | SpeedEvil | If it's on a non-standard code - not PRN1-32 - then the reciever |
| 16:15.31 | SpeedEvil | can't track it |
| 16:16.17 | ckuethe | right |
| 16:16.51 | ckuethe | but the health message in the broadcast almanac also says "hey, don't even bother trying to look for prn whatever ... it ain't there" |
| 16:17.24 | ckuethe | and given enough time (12.5min) every satellite will transmit the health of every other satellite |
| 16:19.07 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 16:21.16 | SpeedEvil | Ah - right. |
| 16:21.33 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:21.37 | SpeedEvil | Do you happen to know if the almanacs are synchronised? |
| 16:21.42 | ckuethe | pretty close |
| 16:21.45 | SpeedEvil | Or are they intentionally staggered. |
| 16:21.49 | ckuethe | that's what the time of issue is fore |
| 16:21.57 | ckuethe | they try keep them pretty close |
| 16:22.06 | SpeedEvil | Pity in a way. |
| 16:22.09 | ckuethe | but the time of issue is there so you can be sure you have the latest |
| 16:22.22 | ckuethe | ie, you might be using a 2hr old almanac |
| 16:22.37 | SpeedEvil | Otherwise, with 6 sats up, you could have the full almanac in 12.5min/n |
| 16:23.00 | *** join/#openmoko cel (n=cel@86.59.65.236) |
| 16:23.07 | cel | hi |
| 16:23.25 | ckuethe | hm. i'll have to go through my logs and see if they stagger the page being transmitted |
| 16:23.44 | ckuethe | they may all transmit the same order, in which case it would take the full 12.5min |
| 16:23.55 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 16:24.41 | ckuethe | the data pages have a time of issue, much like dns zones have a serial number ... so you don't have to buffer/decode the whole thing if you've already got the latest (just in case anyone was wondering) |
| 16:25.46 | SpeedEvil | ckuethe: I'm currently trying to work out how you can do warm-start in <<6s |
| 16:25.47 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-25.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:25.59 | ewanm89_1aptop | Hey. |
| 16:26.13 | SpeedEvil | Basically if you know where the bit-edges are to within 0.3ms or so, it's easy. If you don't, it gets real fun. |
| 16:27.01 | *** join/#openmoko mokobot (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-25.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:27.08 | galexande | mokobot, seen my moko |
| 16:27.08 | mokobot | i haven't seen 'my moko', galexande |
| 16:27.10 | galexande | damn |
| 16:27.25 | Qwell[] | mokobot, seen your moko |
| 16:27.25 | mokobot | Qwell[]: i haven't seen 'your moko' |
| 16:27.43 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 16:27.44 | SpeedEvil | Anyone have a moko they can ssh into, and do some quick tests with bzip2? |
| 16:28.27 | summatusmentis | ferric: ping |
| 16:29.36 | don-o | your moko is here http://rubyurl.com/EGm |
| 16:30.19 | ckuethe | SpeedEvil: i have a zaurus... clocked at 91, 208 or 416MHz |
| 16:30.22 | ferric | pong. |
| 16:30.45 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Ma33c.m.pppool.de) |
| 16:30.45 | summatusmentis | ferric: quick question, can I pm you? |
| 16:30.51 | ferric | sure |
| 16:30.53 | SpeedEvil | ckuethe: I'm looking for someone to time bunzip2s of http://www.mauve.plus.com/out.bz2 and out1.bz2 |
| 16:31.15 | SpeedEvil | ckuethe: this is to work out if bzipping chunks of wikipedia is plausible for storage |
| 16:31.28 | SpeedEvil | (120K and 1.2M, 10 and 100 wikipedia entries) |
| 16:31.45 | SpeedEvil | Text only. |
| 16:31.47 | ckuethe | k, i'll get right on that |
| 16:31.55 | SpeedEvil | Thanks! |
| 16:32.37 | jgm | SpeedEvil: worth checking out standard zlib, for text it's very similar in terms of compression and *way* faster to decompress |
| 16:33.10 | SpeedEvil | Comparing over gzip -9 and bzip - there is a big difference. |
| 16:33.18 | SpeedEvil | 10-20% IIRC |
| 16:33.33 | jgm | I'd put 10% in the 'similar' ballpark |
| 16:33.35 | ckuethe | lzma |
| 16:33.42 | jgm | 20% is getting to be a bit further out |
| 16:34.12 | jgm | But we used to use bzip2 in one of our applications and ditched it for zlib, this was compressing XML so somewhat similar. The space/speed tradeoff was pretty compelling |
| 16:35.09 | SpeedEvil | It depends. I was surprised as to how well bzip2 worked. |
| 16:35.56 | SpeedEvil | s/worked/compressed/ |
| 16:35.56 | mokobot | SpeedEvil meant: It depends. I was surprised as to how well bzip2 compressed. |
| 16:36.02 | *** join/#openmoko drear (n=drear@nblzone-208-36.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 16:40.44 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass__ (n=chatzill@johnkerry.plus.com) |
| 16:44.07 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass__ (n=chatzill@dyn1242-150.vpn.ic.ac.uk) |
| 16:45.22 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@131.pool85-50-109.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 16:46.18 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 16:49.03 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 16:54.05 | cjb | SpeedEvil: lzma has better time and compression properties. but yeah, it's amusing how many people try to make XML compressors and quickly come to the realization that they can't beat gzip. |
| 16:54.42 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-204-148.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 16:54.43 | SpeedEvil | It seems so obvious that you can beat gzip. |
| 16:55.05 | cjb_ie | what about bzip2? |
| 16:55.29 | *** join/#openmoko radiorental (n=pauricoc@ip-151-104-122-52.corp.ne.3com.com) |
| 16:55.40 | SpeedEvil | bzip2 - ckuethe has supplied me with figures - takes 4.5 seconds to decompress a batch of 10 wikipedia articles. |
| 16:56.04 | SpeedEvil | Which is 2.?s average time to get to the output. |
| 16:56.23 | SpeedEvil | If that's better enough than gzip is another question. |
| 16:56.57 | cjb | surely not. |
| 16:57.20 | SpeedEvil | It's 10-15% or so. |
| 16:57.25 | SpeedEvil | Perhaps not. |
| 16:57.48 | ckuethe | i s'pose i can test the same set with lzma and gzip and compress |
| 16:58.00 | ewanm89_laptop | SpeedEvil: What is your exact plan for this? |
| 16:58.21 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: basically - canned small wikipedia. |
| 16:58.32 | SpeedEvil | One part is a few hundred meg 'fixed' archive. |
| 16:58.42 | cjb | ckuethe: lzma > bzip2 > gzip. |
| 16:58.55 | SpeedEvil | This has stuff like "1924", "Germany", "Paris" in it. |
| 16:58.56 | cjb | oh. we already have one of those for OLPC. |
| 16:59.01 | ewanm89_laptop | SpeedEvil: So your not grabbing the content live then? |
| 16:59.12 | ckuethe | cjb: on what kind of processor though ;) |
| 16:59.29 | *** join/#openmoko shark_ (n=shark@59.176.111.177) |
| 16:59.39 | ewanm89_laptop | But is the data is already there? |
| 16:59.40 | SpeedEvil | The other part is a dynamic "Paris Hilton", "Plane Crash In Brazil", "Large Asteroid to hit earth tomorrow" entries. |
| 17:00.08 | SpeedEvil | Generated off wikipedia statistics. |
| 17:00.13 | ckuethe | it's easy enough to shove some time $COMPRESSOR < source >/dev/null commands into a file and try at a few different cpu speeds |
| 17:00.13 | ewanm89_laptop | SpeedEvil: Most browsers already support gzip. |
| 17:00.56 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Mokopedia is the basic idea. |
| 17:01.17 | mmazur | mockopedia? :) |
| 17:01.29 | SpeedEvil | Consider also every SMS, email, ... also having live-links into your local encyclopedia. |
| 17:01.49 | galexande | you can without a doubt decompress almost any format substantially faster than the fastest internet connection the phone will ever know |
| 17:02.20 | SpeedEvil | The wikipedia stats I have _Seem_ to indicate that you can get a _much_ better hit-rate by having a 'current events' pack added to the main archive. |
| 17:02.22 | SpeedEvil | Err - no. |
| 17:02.29 | galexande | i can't wait to see what happens when all of these pie-in-the-sky application ideas meet the 2.8" screen :) |
| 17:02.36 | SpeedEvil | This is (say) 4-600M on a phone. |
| 17:02.41 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:02.46 | SpeedEvil | Stored on the SD. |
| 17:02.47 | ewanm89_laptop | Agreed, but you will have a major limit on the amount of data compared to the whole of wikipedia. |
| 17:03.07 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 17:03.16 | *** join/#openmoko andylockran (n=andylock@82-36-184-134.cable.ubr03.soli.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 17:03.17 | galexande | do we have a figure for the size of all of the text on wikipedia (english)? |
| 17:03.26 | cjb | SpeedEvil: I think the OLPC snapshot is 10k articles, 80M of text, 300M of images in those articles. |
| 17:03.31 | cjb | that might be all uncompressed. |
| 17:03.37 | SpeedEvil | Statistics _seem_ to say that 80% or so can be gotten in 500-500M. |
| 17:03.40 | SpeedEvil | 80% of hits |
| 17:03.47 | galexande | heh |
| 17:03.50 | don-o | galexande: LOL. so true. 2.8" of reality. :) |
| 17:04.04 | SpeedEvil | It won't always be 2.8" |
| 17:04.13 | galexande | sure but :) |
| 17:04.45 | galexande | basically, speedevil, i'm railing against the two-pane (index on top, details on bottom) approach. it's totally unmanagable on 3.5" palmtops. |
| 17:04.46 | ewanm89_laptop | If we could grab articles "on the way (caching proxy)" and then compress them best we can for the data connection, then add support for local cache and some common articals on the SD card snapshot. |
| 17:04.49 | SpeedEvil | cjb: how was that made? Is it selected articles? |
| 17:04.52 | galexande | it'll be comical on 2.8" |
| 17:05.03 | SpeedEvil | galexande: I totally pretty much agree with you. |
| 17:05.37 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: the idea is that you might have 5M of articles downloaded overnight. |
| 17:05.41 | galexande | it's so awesome that this project has so many people who aren't already hardened palmtop users |
| 17:05.48 | ewanm89_laptop | Stripping out images and other multimedia unless specifically asked for. |
| 17:05.57 | galexande | because everyone will react to these limitations differently |
| 17:06.11 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: So that you have articles for 'breaking news' stories. |
| 17:06.49 | andylockran | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:06.52 | ewanm89_laptop | But what I want to look up on wikipedia may be totally different to what you want to look up. |
| 17:07.03 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: Oh - I totally agree. |
| 17:07.16 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: that's where it gets tricky. |
| 17:07.24 | ewanm89_laptop | andylockran: I have gremlins in my net connection all the time. |
| 17:07.27 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 17:07.44 | galexande | of course we could just hand out unlimited gprs plans for al, with puppies and ribbons, and use tcp/ip to ask wikipedia.org to provide the info |
| 17:07.52 | ewanm89_laptop | SpeedEvil: So proxy and local caches, with most common articles prestored? |
| 17:08.20 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: Basic idea - mine at least - is: 500M (ish) of core articles. |
| 17:08.41 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: 100M or so pack of 'recent events' articles. |
| 17:09.01 | SpeedEvil | Which gets updated daily or better, in small update packs. |
| 17:09.10 | ewanm89_laptop | The proxy strips multimedia and compresses the artical then caches them, then a local cache on the phone itself too. |
| 17:09.14 | SpeedEvil | So you basically plug it into a dock, and it auto-updates. |
| 17:09.35 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 17:09.47 | SpeedEvil | You're talking about an OM specific proxy. |
| 17:09.54 | SpeedEvil | Hadn't thought of that. |
| 17:10.17 | SpeedEvil | Was assuming it was driven from wikipedia stats. |
| 17:10.43 | SpeedEvil | With the packs distributed by P2P or something. |
| 17:11.19 | pjz | google has a proxy that strips down webpages for mobile devices |
| 17:11.40 | ewanm89_laptop | Then you can use the proxy stats to see what is best for nextday. |
| 17:11.46 | galexande | yeah we're not too far off from wap here |
| 17:12.08 | SpeedEvil | galexande: Oh - I hadn't noticed the recent image on that page. Gotta love that font on a 2.8" device. |
| 17:12.25 | ewanm89_laptop | I know, as opera have a simmilar thing for there mobile browsers. |
| 17:12.36 | galexande | it'll be awesome |
| 17:12.46 | galexande | i bet a lot of the younger geekks will just live with tiny tiny fonts :) |
| 17:13.02 | ewanm89_laptop | Major data saver (for my payasyougo extreme data rates). |
| 17:14.11 | pjz | enh, I gave in and bought unlimited data when I starrted reading ebooks on my cellphone |
| 17:14.24 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 17:14.37 | galexande | ebooks are like the easiest to just cache though :) |
| 17:14.43 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: compressing all the data into one single file is not a good idea. Usually you just want tiny parts data at a time. |
| 17:14.48 | galexande | because you know once you start reading the beginning, you'll want the end sooner or later |
| 17:14.51 | pjz | between that and google maps I pull at least 10MB/mo of data to my cellphone |
| 17:15.00 | galexande | ah google maps |
| 17:15.15 | galexande | if i get unlimited, i intend to really use it. |
| 17:15.39 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: I was basically saying small numbers of files - say 10 |
| 17:15.52 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: as this trades off compression for storage space |
| 17:16.00 | jseghers | Anyone using USB networking with QEMU? |
| 17:16.33 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: I don't know much about compression algorithms but there must be a better solution. |
| 17:16.51 | ferric | how long does makemokofile-devel take? |
| 17:17.03 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: something along the lines of "indexed compression". |
| 17:17.16 | galexande | how big is the jffs2 blocksize? |
| 17:17.20 | ewanm89_laptop | ferric: Depends on hardware. |
| 17:17.24 | Stephmw | Anyone else in London going to Google's London OSJam tomorrow evening, http://osjam.truemesh.com/ ? |
| 17:17.28 | galexande | there are filesystems that are basically as efficient as tar for small files.. |
| 17:17.35 | ewanm89_laptop | Stephmw: I wish. |
| 17:18.07 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: If you keep the data in html one could reuse webkit for the viewer part. |
| 17:18.10 | *** join/#openmoko Tobi (n=tobi@pD9E8613E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:18.17 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: Perhaps. |
| 17:18.23 | Stephmw | ewanm89_laptop: butbut, aren't you going to fly into the UK for the free pizza? |
| 17:18.32 | galexande | i'm really scared webkit will be perceptibly slow |
| 17:18.32 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: I'm more at the 'rough calculations' thing at the moemnt. |
| 17:18.42 | jseghers | I seem to be having a problem getting QEMU and the desktop communicating. When I enter "usb_add gadget:1" in the QEMU monitor, I get a bunch of "dummy_udc dummy_udc: dequeued req ef6fdf40 from ep-c, len 4096, buf xxxx" in the dmesg log |
| 17:18.44 | ewanm89_laptop | Stephmw: I'm in the UK. |
| 17:18.51 | galexande | i just used lynx after a bunch of firefox usage, it was shocking |
| 17:19.03 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: yeah, just throwing around my two cents - feel free to disregard *hehe* |
| 17:20.17 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: though it might be worthwhile to turn to the mailinglist for suggestions about compression algos |
| 17:20.53 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 17:20.57 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: no real point. |
| 17:21.22 | SpeedEvil | Bzip2 is pretty much more or less adequate - or even gzip is only a few percent worse. |
| 17:21.50 | SpeedEvil | The more interesting problem is selection of data. |
| 17:21.59 | SpeedEvil | And how to select that data. |
| 17:22.03 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: somebody has to have some history in that field and maybe could provide some insights. |
| 17:23.17 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 17:24.28 | *** join/#openmoko rob__w (n=bob@X1a08.x.pppool.de) |
| 17:25.56 | ferric | wow. the wish list is mindboggling. |
| 17:26.15 | SpeedEvil | ferric "Wish List" on the wiki |
| 17:26.16 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 17:26.18 | ferric | yes |
| 17:26.35 | SpeedEvil | ferric: At least it's now sorted into some semblance of order (boy was that fun). |
| 17:26.37 | jadams | SpeedEvil: what databases run on openmoko? |
| 17:26.37 | ferric | the possibilities with an open phone are endless. |
| 17:26.52 | ckuethe | jadams: none. they all crawl |
| 17:26.55 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host172-20-dynamic.13-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:27.12 | SpeedEvil | jadams: basically whatever you want. Consider a P100 laptop, and you won't be far off. |
| 17:27.13 | ckuethe | in practise i've been able to run sleepycat db, sqlite and mysql on a zaurus... |
| 17:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 17:27.45 | ferric | even sqlite crawls? |
| 17:27.47 | jadams | SpeedEvil: I was just thinking of it in terms of your 'selection of data' problem |
| 17:27.50 | jadams | re: wp |
| 17:27.54 | cjb_ie | Kensan: i wonder, given that the wikipedia articles are going to have largely similar distributions of chars, and that most compression algs are adaptive... |
| 17:28.37 | SpeedEvil | cjb: I've been doing some preliminary tests on sorting wikipedia articles for best compression. |
| 17:28.42 | cjb_ie | what if, before compression, one were to prepend some sort of header to train the compressor, when generating each compresed file. |
| 17:28.47 | SpeedEvil | Inconclusinve so far. |
| 17:28.50 | jadams | SpeedEvil: why not just write up a Lucene indexer than unzips, indexes, subindexes a zip file, and merges the subindex up to match for the zip file as well? |
| 17:28.58 | jadams | oh, sorting for compression |
| 17:29.00 | cjb_ie | and hence get compressed files which all begin with the same 1k or so of data |
| 17:29.35 | SpeedEvil | It's possible that articles about similar topics may compress better together. |
| 17:29.36 | cjb_ie | so, lop off the 1k, store that separately, tack it back on before decompression |
| 17:30.02 | SpeedEvil | Or start with a decompressor in a forced state. |
| 17:30.24 | *** join/#openmoko morpheus (n=morpheus@DSL01.83.171.160.81.ip-pool.NEFkom.net) |
| 17:30.28 | SpeedEvil | That it's already decompressed 100K or whatever. |
| 17:30.35 | cjb_ie | that'd be a better time-optimisation, possibly, depending how big a data structure it builds. |
| 17:30.40 | galexande | cat TDMA CDMA | bzip2 -c | wc -c 18586 |
| 17:30.44 | galexande | (bzip2 -c TDMA;bzip2 -c CDMA) | wc -c 21465 |
| 17:30.59 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: this has probably all been done before; i'm just idly musing. |
| 17:31.02 | galexande | (TDMA and CDMA are two wikipedia articles that use similar dictionaries) |
| 17:31.07 | SpeedEvil | In practice. |
| 17:31.22 | SpeedEvil | Selection algorithm is _way_ more important than compression. |
| 17:31.46 | galexande | so this means that combining more than one article into a file is valuable just in terms of training the compressor |
| 17:31.47 | SpeedEvil | You could easily 'need' double the space with a bad selection alg. |
| 17:31.58 | cjb_ie | right, so long as you have some good mechanism for figuring out where to find your document. |
| 17:32.14 | cjb_ie | but yeah, you make a very valid point. |
| 17:32.16 | *** join/#openmoko Cyphi^ (n=cyphi@a91-153-112-221.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:32.35 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: non-technical article but still interesting: http://www.cnet.com.au/mobilephones/phones/0,239025953,339271149,00.htm Might be worth examining how they are doing it... |
| 17:32.49 | galexande | speed, what you need is access to the matrix from which they calculate "customers who bought xyz also bought abc" |
| 17:33.00 | galexande | except that wikipedia doesn't keep that matrix :) |
| 17:33.24 | galexande | because you could walk links through that matrix and get a whole forest from a listening habit, like pandora, and that would at least be a fun algorithm :) |
| 17:33.34 | galexande | (reading habit) |
| 17:33.43 | cjb_ie | SpeedEvil: one might also consider that users might refer from one article to another similarly-themed one - which is a big win if you've already decompressed both. |
| 17:33.59 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: But you could build such a matrix if you set up a wikipedia proxy. |
| 17:34.12 | galexande | ewan, sure but it wouldn't be 100% trivial :) |
| 17:34.26 | galexande | mostly in terms of dealing with the load if we actually get any number of people to use our proxy and contribute to our statistics. |
| 17:34.47 | galexande | i wonder if imdb already talks WAP |
| 17:34.51 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: storing and searching all of wikipedia is trivial. As is updating it. Selecting subsets is hard. |
| 17:35.14 | galexande | well you do have enough information to do any algorithhm google can |
| 17:35.32 | galexande | from the robot, i mean, not using their url redirecter feedback |
| 17:35.53 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: But if we do it as I said, data (for openmoko users, our audience) will be collected and therefore the articles will better as time goes on. |
| 17:35.58 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:36.10 | Elrond | Good evening. |
| 17:36.19 | SpeedEvil | But you're going to need to run off wikipedia stats first. |
| 17:36.19 | galexande | ewan yeah but it takes a long time to get up to speed that way, we won't even know what heuristic is best until we've got a thousand users |
| 17:36.31 | SpeedEvil | At least till we get a hundred thousand users or so. |
| 17:36.36 | galexande | heh |
| 17:36.44 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 17:37.19 | *** join/#openmoko shark_ (n=shark@59.176.111.177) |
| 17:37.33 | jadams | any word on reasons D.A.V.E. (BT/WiFi hard drive) wouldn't work on the Neo? |
| 17:37.34 | ewanm89_laptop | Yes, so we need to get the proxy running as soon as possible. |
| 17:37.50 | SpeedEvil | jadams: if it's accessible by linux, it should. |
| 17:37.58 | jadams | SpeedEvil: then screw compression :) |
| 17:38.03 | jadams | I'm carrying that in my pocket constantly |
| 17:38.26 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/fr]] [[Neo1973_Hardware/ru]] [[Wish_List]] [[User:Minime/sketch]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Berlin]] [[Current_events]] [[User:Krzysiekbielicki]] [[Community_Based_Traffic_Information]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Warsaw]] and other changes |
| 17:38.40 | galexande | jadams, any BT hard drive will eventually be hackable to work with neo |
| 17:38.44 | ewanm89_laptop | jadams: But not all of us are. |
| 17:38.48 | galexande | so long as it's willing to degrade to BT 2.0 slow data rate or whatever |
| 17:38.58 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 17:39.03 | ckuethe | hm. lzma may be a bad idea |
| 17:39.14 | ckuethe | my 64M zaurus is swapping.... in console mode |
| 17:39.18 | galexande | hahaha |
| 17:39.26 | galexande | i can't believe you allocated swap space :) |
| 17:39.27 | ewanm89_laptop | lol |
| 17:39.29 | Aria | Oof. Yeah. lzma is ... Oy. |
| 17:39.33 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: I was more hinting at their compression and storage scheme. |
| 17:41.07 | galexande | it's too bad it doesn't take SD, we could get 8GB |
| 17:41.10 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: compression is the easy part. And the easy part to replace. Selection algorithm is really hard. |
| 17:41.28 | SpeedEvil | 8G micro-SD is reportedly sampling. |
| 17:42.22 | galexande | yeah i just found 4gb |
| 17:42.56 | galexande | tell me jffs isn't 32-bit limited :) |
| 17:43.00 | ewanm89_laptop | I think a few things on the wish list should be rethought. |
| 17:43.14 | Aria | Which things? |
| 17:43.28 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: It's a wiki! |
| 17:43.52 | SpeedEvil | And what things. |
| 17:44.00 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 17:44.01 | ewanm89_laptop | Yeah, I could remove them, flashlight (there's one in the stylus). |
| 17:44.22 | SpeedEvil | I'm unlikely to be carrying the stock stylus. |
| 17:44.47 | SpeedEvil | The guidelines I've been following for removing stuff are: |
| 17:45.00 | SpeedEvil | A) Clearly insane - V12/teleporter |
| 17:45.09 | galexande | i feel strongly that the neo should have a flashlight, actually :) |
| 17:45.14 | Aria | Should make a "Blue Sky" page |
| 17:45.20 | SpeedEvil | B) technically impractical - FPGA (moved to wishlist:unlikely) |
| 17:45.21 | Aria | And move the less plausible there. |
| 17:45.21 | ewanm89_laptop | teleport would be nice though. |
| 17:45.22 | galexande | every rechargable device that is carried everywhere should have a flashlight |
| 17:45.35 | Aria | Let people's creativity flow freely, but edit the wishlist to be more specific. |
| 17:45.51 | SpeedEvil | C) Implemented |
| 17:45.59 | SpeedEvil | D) Has its own application page |
| 17:46.13 | galexande | i',m trying to figure out who we talk to at openmoko about developing a more realistic framework for integrating the core phone/pim apps |
| 17:46.27 | SpeedEvil | The flashlight on "Wish List" involves turning the screen all-white |
| 17:46.43 | SpeedEvil | Which is not actually insane. |
| 17:46.59 | Aria | Hah. I want a button for that. I use my cellphone as a light constantly. |
| 17:47.17 | SpeedEvil | I want a nice 1W 100lm LED. |
| 17:47.18 | Aria | And preferably triggerable without looking at it first, so my eyes stay adjusted for dark. |
| 17:47.23 | galexande | that's a pretty marginal flashlight, though, a single white led is so nice |
| 17:47.37 | SpeedEvil | Cree have just made one orderable. |
| 17:47.38 | galexande | i have a stack of white ultrabrights so maybe i'll just solder one on :) |
| 17:47.48 | Aria | Hee. |
| 17:47.54 | SpeedEvil | As bright as 8-10W of 'normal' bulb. |
| 17:48.09 | galexande | hahaha speed those things are insane |
| 17:48.18 | galexande | that much light coming from a point source is terrifying inmy experience |
| 17:48.22 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 17:48.25 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 17:49.20 | SpeedEvil | My current keychain light: https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_69_49&products_id=111&osCsid=4e6ee07261a1050c1117bea473b837fa works well. |
| 17:51.34 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:52.03 | ckuethe | http://pastebin.ca/624990 <--- ls -l of the compression tests |
| 17:52.46 | SpeedEvil | Are there any timings of those? |
| 17:52.48 | jgm | Have you seen the latest emails? The Neos have arrived in FIC US |
| 17:52.57 | zecke | ckuethe: what are you testing? |
| 17:52.59 | ckuethe | http://pastebin.ca/624993 <--- timings of compression tests |
| 17:53.02 | jgm | Our Neos have FINALLY arrived at FIC America headquarters. We are now ready to ship.Thanks to FICA for the confirmation pictures: |
| 17:53.02 | jgm | http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/NeoArrived.mp4 |
| 17:53.05 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 17:53.17 | ckuethe | lzmadec is *$@#^@*#&^$ fast!!!! |
| 17:53.29 | juri_ | jgm: yay! :) |
| 17:53.37 | noidd | should only be a day or two before the first ones then are in the hands of the new devs. |
| 17:53.51 | ckuethe | so we take the pain on compression ... use some beefy x86 or amd64 machine to compress the databases |
| 17:53.55 | SpeedEvil | Given nobodies had CCs charged yet... |
| 17:54.14 | galexande | looking at wishlist is making me despair to contribute anything useful to openmoko |
| 17:54.22 | galexande | my ideas are so divergent |
| 17:54.44 | juri_ | galex: welcome to open source. forget everyone else, do what you want. ;) |
| 17:54.51 | *** join/#openmoko _kaiser_ (n=kaiser@74-140-187-27.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 17:55.18 | ckuethe | if you wanted to write road-mapped phone software you'd go work for motorola or nokia |
| 17:55.33 | juri_ | personally, i'm going to try to reproduce the interface of my n770 on the neo using only opensource software, and use the neo and 770 together to commit street maps to openstreet. ;) |
| 17:55.48 | SpeedEvil | Nice. |
| 17:57.10 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 17:57.57 | SpeedEvil | Check [[Openstreetmap]] on the wiki |
| 17:58.17 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: What do you want todo? |
| 17:58.58 | cjb_ie | juri_: ooh, yet another OSMer? |
| 18:00.28 | ewanm89_laptop | I would contribute to OSM if I had a GPS reciever to use. (I can't even order a neo though). |
| 18:00.36 | ewanm89_laptop | :( |
| 18:00.36 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.54) |
| 18:00.47 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: why not? |
| 18:01.14 | galexande | ewan, i want it to be as simple and braindead as possible |
| 18:01.23 | galexande | it should have every feature that the motorola v66 has, and none that it doesn't, for the dialer |
| 18:01.23 | cjb_ie | ewanm89_laptop: there's probably OSMers near you if you're in the uk, and a lot of them have spare GPSes. |
| 18:01.23 | ewanm89_laptop | SpeedEvil: No Credit Card, Bank account has no direct debit support. |
| 18:01.35 | jpcass__ | im with you galexande. want to configure one for my mum. |
| 18:01.44 | cjb_ie | personally speaking, i have... *counts* 4 GPSes, i think. |
| 18:01.56 | galexande | and every button should be absolutely as huge as possible and every screen should have only a single purpose |
| 18:02.03 | galexande | but that's not really in any of the application mockups i've read about on the wiki. |
| 18:02.14 | cjb_ie | and i'm sure i can't be the only OSMer with that many. |
| 18:02.26 | galexande | i'm excited, this'll be my first GPS :)( |
| 18:02.31 | ewanm89_laptop | When I get my neo (hopes), I'll help contribute. |
| 18:03.06 | ewanm89_laptop | I've used GPS a few times, never had my own reciever though. |
| 18:03.11 | SpeedEvil | galexande: Fork you then. |
| 18:03.31 | ewanm89_laptop | cjb_ie: Where are you? |
| 18:03.39 | galexande | i can't imagine waht would be necessary to have this kind of wish list featureset, and also a super-simpel ui |
| 18:03.41 | cjb_ie | ewanm89_laptop: cork, ireland. |
| 18:03.42 | SpeedEvil | Personally, I think we need both this sort, and the low-res huge print sort, and ... |
| 18:03.44 | galexande | it would be awesome if that happens, though |
| 18:03.55 | SpeedEvil | galexande: most of them are seperate apps. |
| 18:04.04 | SpeedEvil | galexande: which could be enabled or not. |
| 18:04.24 | galexande | speed, yeah, but things like. ... people want to associate a *lot* of flags with each entry in the contact list |
| 18:04.28 | cjb_ie | ewanm89_laptop: i'll confess i cheated slightly; the four includes one i ordered while i was at the OSM conference last weekend. |
| 18:04.38 | galexande | i guess we can just hide it all behind "details" buttons like MS does. |
| 18:05.07 | jadams | galexande: we can always fork contacts for advanced users or vice versa if need be |
| 18:05.20 | jadams | removing features from the interface is obviously the easiest direction |
| 18:05.23 | SpeedEvil | galexande: or better - the DB supports thousands of flags. |
| 18:05.27 | jadams | so let's make it super awesome first :) |
| 18:05.34 | *** join/#openmoko shark_ (n=shark@59.176.111.177) |
| 18:05.38 | SpeedEvil | The UI can be forked |
| 18:05.42 | jadams | right |
| 18:05.46 | ewanm89_laptop | cjb_ie: So it doesn't include the neo you ordered? |
| 18:05.58 | galexande | yeah it's just if i'm forking the UI, i'll fork it within a month of when i get the phone, before anyone else gets a chance to weigh in on it :) |
| 18:06.15 | galexande | i am not even decided to use gtk (i have my own thin layer over X that i use) |
| 18:06.29 | galexande | so my fork will never merge back cleanly |
| 18:06.30 | cjb_ie | ewanm89_laptop: haven't ordered one... gonna wait for the wifi version |
| 18:06.34 | ewanm89_laptop | cjb_ie: Last time I used GPS was in irelad (wicklow mountains). |
| 18:06.51 | ewanm89_laptop | s/irelad/ireland/ |
| 18:06.51 | mokobot | ewanm89_laptop meant: cjb_ie: Last time I used GPS was in ireland (wicklow mountains). |
| 18:06.56 | galexande | oh no |
| 18:07.19 | jadams | I was wondering why that didn't happen more :) |
| 18:07.21 | ewanm89_laptop | cjb_ie: I really want a neo-1973 advanced. |
| 18:08.02 | Kero | yay, movie :) |
| 18:08.04 | jadams | s/happen/\/s\/happen\/\s/happen\// |
| 18:08.08 | galexande | ewan, shortage of guitar picks in britain? |
| 18:08.11 | jadams | well, I'm glad it didn't work :) |
| 18:08.51 | jadams | s/glad/\/s\/glad\/s\/glad\// |
| 18:08.59 | jadams | ok I'm done trying to ruin the world |
| 18:09.10 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: No, I can nick those from the music department at school ;) |
| 18:09.27 | *** join/#openmoko bkruse (i=bkruse@nat/digium/x-01bb2c5f675979b6) |
| 18:15.09 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485D72B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:15.21 | CM | ewanm89_laptop: Why not get a visa card btw? |
| 18:17.13 | *** join/#openmoko Markinoko (n=Markinok@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:19.06 | ewanm89_laptop | CM: I haven't got around to it yet, only turned 18 in April (end of). |
| 18:19.29 | ewanm89_laptop | I will be getting a new bank account shortly. |
| 18:19.45 | CM | :-) |
| 18:21.19 | ewanm89_laptop | I'll order then, but usually my parents will order stuff for me, but they say they have "no comeback" if something goes wrong. |
| 18:21.34 | ewanm89_laptop | If it's international. |
| 18:21.40 | galexande | every teen needs a credit card. thanks to the miracles of compound interest, if you run up a debt at 18 it can pass $1M by the time you retire!! |
| 18:21.41 | galexande | :-) |
| 18:22.11 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: LOL, I have ne money saftely saved away for months. |
| 18:22.17 | juri_ | yay! i now have an x86 copy of qemu, with four ide disks, and 6 scsi disks! :) |
| 18:22.21 | ewanm89_laptop | s/ne/the/ |
| 18:22.23 | mokobot | ewanm89_laptop meant: galexande: LOL, I have the money saftely saved away for months. |
| 18:22.24 | mmazur | That's what student's credits are for. |
| 18:22.44 | ewanm89_laptop | mmazur: As I will be getting soon, hopefully. |
| 18:23.07 | mmazur | ewanm89_laptop, a 1M$ debt? Good for you :) |
| 18:24.00 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@oul110-gw1.netplaza.fi) |
| 18:24.55 | ewanm89_laptop | £27,000 debt just for going to a Uni in london and getting full amount. (no I'm not this high). |
| 18:25.11 | *** join/#openmoko josh_marshall (n=josh@cpe-24-162-112-6.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 18:25.16 | ScaredyCat | where' my cocking email |
| 18:26.31 | radiorental | Has anyone placed an order for the neo'73? did you get a confirmation email? |
| 18:26.58 | ScaredyCat | we're all waiting for ours |
| 18:27.07 | ScaredyCat | neo's that is |
| 18:27.14 | radiorental | did you get a confirmation or anything? |
| 18:27.33 | ScaredyCat | initial one yes, with a ticket number from rt |
| 18:27.39 | radiorental | the website crapped out twice before I was able to complete |
| 18:27.46 | radiorental | ahh.. thanks |
| 18:27.53 | ScaredyCat | then another one asking if I was a windows user... |
| 18:28.03 | SpeedEvil | Have you gotten a "Yes, I really want it" thing? |
| 18:28.04 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 18:28.08 | radiorental | so I should place another order then |
| 18:28.17 | Kensan | radiorental: this might be informativ: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ¨ |
| 18:28.18 | radiorental | no.. didnt get any emails |
| 18:28.22 | radiorental | thanks! |
| 18:28.45 | ScaredyCat | I mean, asking if I was really sure YES_I_DO email, or NO_I_AM_NOT_STUPID_BUT_THANKS_ANYWAY |
| 18:29.04 | radiorental | thanks, read the faq, there's nothing there about ordering issues |
| 18:29.16 | ScaredyCat | no, it's pretty useless.. |
| 18:29.21 | Kensan | radiorental? |
| 18:29.25 | radiorental | I'll place another order, just didnt want to get charged twice |
| 18:29.31 | ScaredyCat | if you got through one time |
| 18:29.35 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@host81-150-196-5.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 18:29.37 | ScaredyCat | then wait 24hours.. |
| 18:29.41 | Kensan | radiorental: that faq is full about ordering issues |
| 18:29.41 | ScaredyCat | for the email.. |
| 18:29.46 | radiorental | I ordered last week |
| 18:29.51 | ScaredyCat | ahh ok.. |
| 18:30.01 | radiorental | damnn |
| 18:30.02 | ScaredyCat | you should have had 2 emails |
| 18:30.10 | ScaredyCat | one with a ticket number |
| 18:30.12 | radiorental | they only built 1000 right? |
| 18:30.25 | ScaredyCat | one asking if you were really sure about buyinh |
| 18:30.48 | ScaredyCat | for the moment radiorental, yes... but there's only a 4 week lead time... |
| 18:30.58 | ScaredyCat | and 2 of those weeks have nearly passed |
| 18:31.06 | juri_ | so, do we know what ticket number consists of the 500 cutoff, or the 1000 cutoff? |
| 18:31.10 | ScaredyCat | (since the initial ordering) |
| 18:31.42 | ScaredyCat | well according to that faq it doesn;t matter what your order number is |
| 18:32.31 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:32.31 | ScaredyCat | Unfortunately you cannot deduce this information from your order number, sorry. |
| 18:32.58 | ScaredyCat | that kinda suggests that they're as organised as chaos theory |
| 18:34.01 | juri_ | nice. ;) |
| 18:35.01 | ScaredyCat | so you might be lucky :) |
| 18:35.20 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 18:35.46 | don-o | did anyone look at my google map satellite shot of FIC america? |
| 18:35.58 | radiorental | Thanks Scaredycat, just placed a new order. When I placed my order there was no option for the orange phone and no confirmation page "You will receive a confirmation email within 24 hours.", sorry if the question seemed stupid |
| 18:36.09 | mmazur | ScaredyCat, that's good news! I have a xxxx number, which means I'm not bound to be in the n-th batch! |
| 18:36.39 | ScaredyCat | no problem radiorental... |
| 18:36.53 | ScaredyCat | I'm in helpful mode at the moment :) |
| 18:36.57 | mmazur | Is there any info on shipping? I've addressed it to where I currently reside, however that's gonna change in a month. |
| 18:37.10 | mmazur | I've assumed they'd make it... |
| 18:37.19 | SpeedEvil | No news. |
| 18:37.27 | SpeedEvil | It's been said they may charge CCs within the week |
| 18:37.58 | ScaredyCat | except for the 2nd note "Before the end of this week you should see a charge on your credit cards." |
| 18:38.33 | ScaredyCat | Before the end of this decade you should see a device." |
| 18:38.45 | mmazur | Yeah, the devil's in the fine print. |
| 18:40.00 | ScaredyCat | can I just say xdebug is 'kin' awesome |
| 18:40.05 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k958.webspeed.dk) |
| 18:42.17 | *** join/#openmoko Dmity_Platonov (n=hawk@user-89-248-176-130.gagarino.net) |
| 18:49.39 | *** join/#openmoko SiO2 (n=sarge@p54B3A759.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:51.12 | xkr47 | nice video on the mailing list to drool over :) |
| 18:51.23 | mmazur | Give link. |
| 18:51.25 | *** join/#openmoko Jason1 (n=ws1@c-24-15-3-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 18:51.33 | *** join/#openmoko digVer (n=digger@pool-71-242-48-237.phlapa.east.verizon.net) |
| 18:51.42 | xkr47 | http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/NeoArrived.mp4 |
| 18:51.42 | xkr47 | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:51.42 | xkr47 | http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dsvyr656c78 |
| 18:51.43 | Jason1 | Hey Guys. Just received my payment confirmation!!! |
| 18:51.49 | galexande | !!! |
| 18:51.49 | xkr47 | wooot!! |
| 18:52.03 | xkr47 | \o/ for Jason1 number 1 |
| 18:52.04 | Jason1 | I am now $300 poorer! Yeah! |
| 18:52.45 | xkr47 | Jason1, you lucky poor bastard! |
| 18:52.46 | Jason1 | Fomr email: |
| 18:52.46 | Jason1 | This means that we will now send out your order ASAP. |
| 18:52.46 | Jason1 | You will receive another status update once the order has been sent out. |
| 18:52.47 | Jason1 | " |
| 18:53.20 | xkr47 | I only have some Penis Enlarge patch mail in my mailbox :P |
| 18:53.48 | Jason1 | AND the cost was $20 less than expected! Shipping was quoted at about $50, and I got it for $33.20 |
| 18:54.12 | Jason1 | xkr47: Hell, they might be more useful than the phone... |
| 18:54.17 | *** join/#openmoko [berserk] (n=[Berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
| 18:54.24 | xkr47 | lol |
| 18:54.38 | Dmity_Platonov | we need open PE |
| 18:55.03 | Jason1 | Dmity_Platonov: I think there are laws against that |
| 18:56.20 | Dmity_Platonov | I think, not in Taiwan. FIC will help us 8) |
| 18:56.21 | edistar | hello! what kind of resolution do you need to run xoo with the neo theme?! |
| 18:56.30 | Jason1 | anybody else got their payment ocnfirmation email yet? |
| 18:56.57 | xkr47 | Jason1, send a mail to the mailinglist already :) |
| 18:57.12 | xkr47 | with a screenshot of the mail :-) |
| 18:57.26 | edistar | I thought mine would be sufficient but it seems that it's nowhere near enough |
| 18:58.09 | galexande | i bet they ran jason1 manually and haven't worked up the confidence to hit go on the batch yet |
| 18:59.04 | Jason1 | It would have sucked if I got a "Sorry your payment could not be processed" :) |
| 18:59.40 | ewanm89_laptop | Or atatch the mail? |
| 18:59.51 | galexande | put your soul on the scanner and send it to us |
| 19:00.07 | *** join/#openmoko docdoc (n=timoteus@d515323B9.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:00.14 | Kero | don't need Jason1's mail, want his phone :P |
| 19:00.17 | Aria | Pics or it didn't happen!!!!one! |
| 19:00.28 | ewanm89_laptop | Kero: LOL |
| 19:00.29 | xkr47 | two33two |
| 19:00.29 | docdoc | iphone or neo? |
| 19:00.29 | summatusmentis | hell, when you get your neo, just attach that to the mail, that we can all have a copy of it :-P |
| 19:00.36 | ewanm89_laptop | Jason1: Is it an advanced? |
| 19:00.37 | Jason1 | Here is the proof: http://www.chooseopen.com/PaymentReceived.png |
| 19:00.53 | Jason1 | ewanm89_laptop: Nope, just the base. |
| 19:00.58 | Jason1 | Kero: LOL |
| 19:01.16 | ewanm89_laptop | So I see :( |
| 19:01.19 | Kero | ah, you're #1820 |
| 19:01.32 | Kero | that explains :) |
| 19:01.38 | xkr47 | summatusmentis, :-) |
| 19:01.38 | Aria | Hehe. I'm 182x too. |
| 19:01.47 | mmazur | Holy crap. |
| 19:01.53 | mmazur | Jason1, I don't like you already! |
| 19:01.59 | Kero | only 184x here... |
| 19:02.14 | ckuethe | 3900 .... |
| 19:02.16 | docdoc | hi |
| 19:02.16 | mmazur | It's not fair. Why was he first :( |
| 19:02.21 | xkr47 | okuethe wins |
| 19:02.24 | galexande | mmazur, because he's better than us |
| 19:02.28 | xkr47 | ckuethe* |
| 19:02.36 | docdoc | when will pre-orders be registrated for V2? |
| 19:02.40 | Kero | Aria: got mongrel + ruby-cgi on my little server; cgi is a tad slow, but can be sped up |
| 19:02.47 | mmazur | #228x :( |
| 19:02.53 | Aria | Kero: Woot |
| 19:03.06 | docdoc | how many did get the neo already |
| 19:03.21 | Aria | docdoc: Just the P0 folks. P1 hasn't shipped quite yet. |
| 19:03.31 | docdoc | is that 2000 over |
| 19:03.35 | Kero | Aria: http://chmeee.dyndns.org/rambling/blog.srb?author=Kero |
| 19:04.11 | Aria | Hehe, Kero. I like you already -- neo and aikido. |
| 19:04.16 | Jason1 | mmazur: I hit refresh a whole bunch and got the first order |
| 19:04.55 | xkr47 | it's like "I've been waiting over 6 months, and I've got the ticket! goodness will come" |
| 19:04.58 | docdoc | how many will be shipped? |
| 19:05.00 | Kero | Aria: think we discussed aikido some ages ago on #ruby-lang :) |
| 19:05.00 | ewanm89_laptop | Jason1: So you're the one that crashed the server. |
| 19:05.10 | Aria | Hehe. I think you're right, Kero |
| 19:05.13 | Aria | Been a while |
| 19:05.17 | Jason1 | ewanm89_laptop: Maybe, maybe not. :) |
| 19:05.36 | ewanm89_laptop | I still can't order one though. |
| 19:05.38 | docdoc | anyone has the neo in its hand already |
| 19:05.39 | ewanm89_laptop | :( |
| 19:05.49 | docdoc | cheers |
| 19:06.00 | Jason1 | docdoc: Nobody should hae the P1 phone yet. |
| 19:06.02 | ewanm89_laptop | docdoc: Only those that developed th very first prototypes. |
| 19:06.09 | docdoc | ok |
| 19:06.31 | docdoc | so shipment should be started from now... |
| 19:06.39 | ewanm89_laptop | docdoc: Yes. |
| 19:06.39 | Kero | Aria: indeed. and still love both aikido and ruby :) |
| 19:06.44 | docdoc | anyone in belgium |
| 19:06.50 | Jason1 | It is only 12 noon in California right now. I am hoping that *maybe* mine will ship today. Still 5 business hours left in the day |
| 19:07.06 | docdoc | ok |
| 19:07.16 | xkr47 | which is nice |
| 19:07.20 | docdoc | is it shipping worldwide? |
| 19:07.23 | ewanm89_laptop | Kero: No rss feed on your post? |
| 19:07.30 | ewanm89_laptop | s/post/blog/ |
| 19:07.30 | mokobot | ewanm89_laptop meant: Kero: No rss feed on your blog? |
| 19:07.30 | docdoc | not mentioned in the faq page |
| 19:07.46 | Jason1 | docdoc: No, mine is goingto Chicago. I bought overnight shipping... |
| 19:08.11 | docdoc | anyone from europe |
| 19:08.28 | docdoc | superb project by the way |
| 19:08.30 | ewanm89_laptop | docdoc: I'm in the UK, but I can't even order :( |
| 19:08.36 | Markinoko | wao, there's even a bot for substitution ! |
| 19:08.38 | Markinoko | impressive |
| 19:08.41 | *** join/#openmoko Tobi (n=tobi@pD9E8613E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:08.45 | docdoc | ewan why noy |
| 19:08.46 | jadams | Markinoko: two of 'em |
| 19:08.49 | docdoc | why not |
| 19:08.51 | ewanm89_laptop | Markinoko: There are 2. |
| 19:08.55 | jadams | but I can't convince them to send each other into an infinite loop |
| 19:09.09 | daMaestro | s/2/99999^9/ |
| 19:09.10 | Markinoko | jadams: I was just thinking that, hehe |
| 19:09.16 | ewanm89_laptop | jadams: And I can kill that. |
| 19:09.29 | jadams | ewanm89_laptop: sure, but it'd have been funn :) |
| 19:09.36 | Kero | ewanm89_laptop: not yet, will have to hook in a library for that |
| 19:09.36 | docdoc | who has tested the dialer? is it in perfect condition? |
| 19:09.41 | edistar | anyone tried emulating the openmoko OS with Xnest? |
| 19:09.46 | hrw | which dialer? |
| 19:09.59 | docdoc | anything else can not yet be expected from dev software |
| 19:10.01 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: They have done so in zoo. |
| 19:10.17 | edistar | the howto tells me that it can be done without xoo? |
| 19:10.18 | docdoc | hrw dialer in openmoko screen at bottom |
| 19:10.18 | Markinoko | edistar: I'm doing that right now |
| 19:10.28 | ewanm89_laptop | s/z/x/ |
| 19:10.28 | mokobot | ewanm89_laptop meant: edistar: They have done so in xoo. |
| 19:10.30 | edistar | Markinoko: with xoo? or without? |
| 19:10.45 | *** join/#openmoko sparq (n=russell@ich.thy.om.orpho.us) |
| 19:10.50 | Markinoko | edistar: you can use xoo, or not. qemu is enough if you have a small screen |
| 19:11.07 | *** join/#openmoko V0sen[nL]` (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 19:11.08 | edistar | how do I do it in qemu then? |
| 19:11.09 | Markinoko | xoo is just for beauty |
| 19:11.11 | docdoc | hrw: you have read the faq, the dialere is already working on the neo |
| 19:11.14 | edistar | just tell it where the rootfs is? |
| 19:11.24 | Markinoko | edistar: chroot |
| 19:11.30 | hrw | docdoc: I have 2 neos ;D |
| 19:11.31 | Markinoko | or maybe not... |
| 19:11.34 | docdoc | i have seen it on youtube also |
| 19:11.34 | edistar | Markinoko: and then? |
| 19:11.39 | Markinoko | hmm, let me check |
| 19:11.40 | ewanm89_laptop | Or let mokomakefile do it for you. |
| 19:11.44 | docdoc | ok |
| 19:11.54 | docdoc | are they PO |
| 19:11.58 | docdoc | or P1 |
| 19:12.00 | hrw | bv3 and bv4 |
| 19:12.06 | docdoc | PA |
| 19:12.14 | docdoc | P1 BV4 |
| 19:12.36 | docdoc | what is the stability of the x11 window |
| 19:12.42 | ewanm89_laptop | hrw: But you were one of the devs chosen to help? |
| 19:12.48 | hrw | yes |
| 19:12.51 | edistar | Markinoko: I just want to try it out quickly ;) and xoo is cut in half.. :( |
| 19:13.02 | docdoc | ok |
| 19:13.03 | Markinoko | edistar: hehe, same here |
| 19:13.08 | ewanm89_laptop | hrw: Lucky ... |
| 19:13.34 | hrw | docdoc: x11 works stable on neo, we have some interesting software for it |
| 19:13.44 | ewanm89_laptop | I use qemu, works very well. |
| 19:13.56 | docdoc | hrw: where you from and how long are you testing the neo yet |
| 19:13.56 | Markinoko | edistar: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU |
| 19:14.13 | phrozen77_ | hm |
| 19:14.30 | phrozen77_ | anyone knows why mokoninja posted a new video on youtube and removed it then? |
| 19:14.40 | hrw | docdoc: Poznań, Poland and I got first neo (phase0 bv3) in March iirc |
| 19:14.44 | docdoc | why use a emulator if you can connect via usb networking? |
| 19:14.49 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@host86-152-26-80.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:14.50 | Kero | how far is usage of dbus on OpenMoko standardized these days? |
| 19:14.53 | docdoc | on a linux pc |
| 19:15.09 | Kero | like, which services are hooked into it ? |
| 19:15.27 | galexande | i think libgsmd is like the only thing actually written that might need it |
| 19:15.30 | ScaredyCat | wait... wait.. let me get this straight.... |
| 19:15.33 | jgm | Kero: think the plan is for lots of them to hook in to it, but there isn't a lot there yet |
| 19:16.12 | jgm | The contacts/calendar backend is (going to be) eds-dbus |
| 19:16.15 | ScaredyCat | the neo's arrived on 17th, and rather than boxing them up, packaging and charging CC's they make a dumb ass video for you tube... |
| 19:16.24 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@67.70.212.228) |
| 19:16.24 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: how do you use qemu? |
| 19:16.37 | Jason1 | ScaredyCat: They chared *my* credit card :) |
| 19:16.47 | ScaredyCat | !!!! |
| 19:16.48 | Markinoko | edistar: the wiki is not enough ? |
| 19:16.48 | hrw | Kero: dialer will be dbus, calendar and contacts are dbus already |
| 19:16.52 | Jason1 | ScaredyCat: Yup |
| 19:16.54 | jgm | ScaredyCat: hey everyone here was moaning that they wanted to hear an update then you get a full video and you're still not happy? Sheesh |
| 19:16.59 | jadams | ScaredyCat: shut yo mouth, the video took like eight minutes to make I'm sure :) |
| 19:17.03 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: Use the instructions on the mokomakefile page. |
| 19:17.20 | jadams | complain if they haven't shipped any by tomorrow noon |
| 19:17.21 | ScaredyCat | 8 minutes... that's 30 neos boxed |
| 19:17.32 | ScaredyCat | bugger that... |
| 19:17.32 | Markinoko | ewanm89_laptop: actually there's even a dedicated page just for qemu |
| 19:17.36 | Jason1 | ScaredyCat: LOL. Slave driver :) |
| 19:17.45 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:17.45 | jgm | I'm hoping that there will be a lot of dbus hooks, although not sure how they would work in practice as I'm just starting to play with dbus myself |
| 19:17.51 | ewanm89_laptop | Markinoko: I know, mokomakefile automates it though :( |
| 19:18.01 | ewanm89_laptop | s/:(/;)/ |
| 19:18.02 | ScaredyCat | Jason1: did you get emial confirmation? |
| 19:18.06 | Markinoko | ewanm89_laptop: well... yeah :-) |
| 19:18.14 | Jason1 | ScaredyCat: http://www.chooseopen.com/PaymentReceived.png |
| 19:18.24 | ScaredyCat | or have you just been charged for 1000 neos :) |
| 19:18.42 | ewanm89_laptop | Markinoko: I've done it both ways, and I'm developing with it, as I can't even order a neo. |
| 19:18.49 | idarwin | jason1, your order#? so we can figure out their rate of billings? :-) |
| 19:18.55 | ScaredyCat | he's the first |
| 19:19.05 | ScaredyCat | CM: you? |
| 19:19.08 | Jason1 | idarwin: I am the first order: 1820 |
| 19:19.16 | ewanm89_laptop | He's a luckt bast...d |
| 19:19.20 | Markinoko | all those questions about email confirmation makes things clear now. we're not enthousiasts. we're fanatics ;-) |
| 19:19.21 | SpeedEvil | First reported order. |
| 19:19.22 | Jason1 | ScaredyCat: CM had an early order number, right? |
| 19:19.26 | SpeedEvil | Or was that confirmed? |
| 19:19.32 | ScaredyCat | he was 2nd iirc |
| 19:19.34 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: sry, I'm a little confused... I did the makefile thing, build a rootfs(?) and what can I do with that now? I can't use xoo.. |
| 19:19.50 | Markinoko | ewanm89_laptop: I'm in the same situation. I need wifi for what I'm working on, so no point in getting a device right now |
| 19:19.53 | idarwin | oops, right. |
| 19:19.58 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: What distro? |
| 19:20.27 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: ubuntu on a separate pc as my lenny box didn't want to install the openembedded pakets.. |
| 19:20.32 | ewanm89_laptop | Markinoko: Can't you get the networking side emulated with usb networking? |
| 19:20.33 | docdoc | C U around |
| 19:20.54 | Kero | ok, eds-dbus for contacts and calendar I knew. dialer seems a good idea; how about gsm(d) ? |
| 19:21.00 | Jason1 | ScaredyCat: CM is missing all the fun |
| 19:21.06 | ScaredyCat | Jason1: shipping no? |
| 19:21.10 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@xdsl-213-168-111-199.netcologne.de) |
| 19:21.19 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: Did you use make openmoko-devel-image? |
| 19:21.28 | Kero | what other 'services' are there (applications, daemons) that are typical enough... mmm... |
| 19:21.29 | ScaredyCat | tracking code, I mean |
| 19:21.30 | Jason1 | ScaredyCat: supposed to get another "Shipping Confirmation" email |
| 19:21.40 | Markinoko | ewanm89_laptop: I could. but I prefer to save some money. I don't mind waiting till october |
| 19:21.40 | ScaredyCat | Jason1: roflmao |
| 19:21.45 | ScaredyCat | nex month? |
| 19:21.46 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: yes |
| 19:21.55 | Kero | plenty of ideas on the WishList and ML that could, in principle, use dbus at some daemon-ish level |
| 19:22.01 | jgm | Kero: I'm playing with a SQLite backend for messages (SMS, IM, voice calls/mails) that would be accessible by dbus |
| 19:22.02 | Jason1 | ScaredyCat: From the email "This means that we will now send out your order ASAP. You will receive another status update once the order has been sent out." |
| 19:22.09 | ewanm89_laptop | Right, do you have GCC 3.x installed? |
| 19:22.17 | aking | heh - there's a video of the packing instructions for a Neo Advanced: http://people.openmoko.org/jouston/AdvancedKit.AVI |
| 19:22.17 | Jason1 | ScaredyCat: Probably :( |
| 19:22.19 | ScaredyCat | Jason1: 3:30pm is last collection |
| 19:22.24 | ScaredyCat | CA time |
| 19:22.30 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: do I still need that? make openmoko-devel-image worked on the ubuntu.. |
| 19:22.31 | ScaredyCat | from the ups site |
| 19:22.32 | Jason1 | ScaredyCat: For UPS? |
| 19:22.36 | ScaredyCat | ya |
| 19:22.43 | Kero | jgm: I'm thinking of making stopwatch as first application. full-screen [5 MIN] on screen and (optional) beeping when done |
| 19:22.44 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: but I think I have, one moment |
| 19:22.48 | Kero | egg-timer |
| 19:22.49 | Jason1 | ScaredyCat: They better get to work then. |
| 19:23.00 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: It's for qemu build (the only part that needs GCC3. |
| 19:23.02 | jgm | Hooks are a big question in my mind. Take the dialer. Say that a user inputs a number to dial, how easy will it be for another application to get in the way and modify the number, change other aspects of the 'phone depending on the number? |
| 19:23.03 | Kero | so that's timer & audio. |
| 19:23.05 | jgm | And how does chaining work? |
| 19:23.06 | *** join/#openmoko fix_ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-178.upc.chello.be) |
| 19:23.09 | ScaredyCat | it really needs to ship today for me to get it friday |
| 19:23.12 | jgm | Kero: did you post to the mailing list regarding that? |
| 19:23.20 | Kero | jgm: not yet. |
| 19:23.22 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: no, I only have gcc 4, do I need gcc 3.x? |
| 19:23.30 | Kero | I've been working on my blog and some things up to yesterday :) |
| 19:23.36 | Jason1 | ScaredyCat: I got overnight shipping, so if it ships today, I could have it tomorrow. Most likely (knowing FIC), it wont ship today (or this week). |
| 19:23.39 | jeddy3 | lets see, we had another 182x here right? Aria, any news? :) |
| 19:23.41 | Kero | so today I start thinking "Neo" for real :) |
| 19:23.50 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: Unfortunatly qemu will only build with 3.x |
| 19:23.57 | Kero | (community or dev ML, btw?) |
| 19:24.24 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: You can have both installed at once. |
| 19:24.40 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: okey, isn't just installing qemu via apt-get enough? or do I need a special qemu? |
| 19:24.49 | jgm | Think it was -devel, let me see if I can find it |
| 19:25.07 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: I installed gcc 3.4 |
| 19:25.28 | *** join/#openmoko codyl (n=codyl@adsl-71-142-81-102.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 19:26.05 | jgm | It was a post yesterday on -devel by Rodolphe Otaro, he linked to this image in it: http://rodolphe.ortalo.free.fr/mokochrono0.png |
| 19:26.12 | C7 | Jason1: i have ticket #1834 and didnt get the mail yet.. but hey .. im waiting since the end of 2006 .. so i think i can wait some more days ;) |
| 19:26.20 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 19:26.42 | galexande | heh i've written thhat program a bunch of times, but not using a gui |
| 19:26.45 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: It's slightly modified to emulate neo hardware. |
| 19:26.58 | Jason1 | C7: hehe. Someone specualted that they may have used my order to "test" the system beforethey try to run the whole batch... makes sense to me. |
| 19:27.02 | Kero | jgm: easy enough like that. but the infrastructure layer is an extra req. |
| 19:27.08 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: will my build stuff work then too or do I need to rebuild? |
| 19:27.09 | C7 | Jason1: ;) |
| 19:27.29 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: I thought that the modified qemu was only to run arm-compiled binaries? |
| 19:27.33 | Kero | jgm: and I want full screen, to show people (e.g. half a room away, giving a presentation) their time is almost up :) |
| 19:27.38 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: Do you know how to use enviroment variables to set it for rest of shell session? |
| 19:27.41 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:27.51 | edistar | export? |
| 19:27.57 | jgm | Yep just thinking it may be good to work together on it rather than us end up with two separate chronometers |
| 19:28.00 | Kero | jgm: and for timing, counting up as well as down seems a loical combo :) |
| 19:28.09 | Jason1 | C7: Soon our endless browser refreshes will pay off when he are the first ones with our Neos. Moohahahahaha |
| 19:28.21 | ewanm89_laptop | Yes, I'm not sure on the specific ones for ubuntu/debian. |
| 19:28.26 | Kero | jgm: lemme start w/ subscribing to -devel then :) |
| 19:28.41 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: What you've built already will be fine. |
| 19:29.03 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: okey :) |
| 19:29.11 | Kero | pft. there's a dozen -devel !! |
| 19:29.47 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: You need it so gcc --version returns 3.x rather than 4.x |
| 19:30.19 | andylockran | hey guys.. good news that cards have started to be charged.. bad news that mine hasn't yet :) |
| 19:30.26 | C7 | Jason1: you'll have yours first.. i'm in switzerland ;) |
| 19:30.44 | Kero | half a dozen, only two that seem interesting. OK :) |
| 19:31.17 | Jason1 | C7: It feels like they are finally starting to make some progress over there. Did you see the video they made of the boxes from China? |
| 19:31.24 | andylockran | yeah, kewl |
| 19:31.25 | andylockran | :) |
| 19:32.05 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: $CC and $HOST_CC need to be set to what ever you get from autocomplete gcc... |
| 19:32.23 | edistar | ewanm89_laptop: okey, thanks |
| 19:32.27 | edistar | I'll see if it works ;) |
| 19:32.45 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 19:33.35 | ewanm89_laptop | make build-qemu flash-qemu-local run-qemu should do it. |
| 19:34.41 | edistar | :) |
| 19:34.50 | ewanm89_laptop | edistar: Works? |
| 19:35.06 | C7 | Jason1: yes i did |
| 19:35.07 | edistar | no, don't have time yet, I'll try in a few hours.. |
| 19:36.54 | Kero | mm, is anyone working on Enlightenment and all its libs for OpenMoko? |
| 19:37.24 | SpeedEvil | Not AIUI. |
| 19:37.34 | SpeedEvil | You can put any WM you want on it prettymuch. |
| 19:37.59 | SpeedEvil | Just remember that it's basically a P100 laptop with a bad graphics card equivalent. |
| 19:38.45 | Kero | yup. and some of those E-libraries claim to be fast without acceleration :) |
| 19:39.07 | Kero | but I have no idea how gtk stacks up to that |
| 19:39.26 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wifidog_Hotspot_Finder]] [[File_transfer]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Vancouver]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] |
| 19:41.57 | *** part/#openmoko elisa (n=janne@kl-tre-fe49dd00-86.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:42.16 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-204-148.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 19:43.43 | andylockran | heya |
| 19:43.55 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@77.47.0.11.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 19:44.56 | *** join/#openmoko IR3 (n=rmoreira@87-196-120-53.net.novis.pt) |
| 19:45.02 | mmazur | I'm a moron. |
| 19:45.11 | Aria | Why? |
| 19:45.14 | mmazur | I got a 'please confirm order' email 4 days ago :( |
| 19:45.18 | galexande | heh |
| 19:45.42 | mmazur | Damn spamfilters. |
| 19:45.52 | mmazur | Dear Valued Customer |
| 19:45.54 | mmazur | That's me! |
| 19:45.54 | Aria | Heh. Oops. |
| 19:46.00 | IR3 | mmazur: you mean .... damn spammers :D |
| 19:46.03 | Aria | At least you're not delayed for the shupping still |
| 19:48.36 | mmazur | Aria, I could hope :) |
| 19:52.52 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@host-82-135-95-87.customer.m-online.net) |
| 19:53.33 | ScaredyCat | who else has had an email ? |
| 19:55.49 | *** join/#openmoko linux-bastler_ (n=ingmarri@p5B12D303.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:55.56 | linux-bastler_ | hello |
| 19:57.22 | Jason1 | hi |
| 19:57.31 | C7 | hi linux-bastler_ |
| 19:57.33 | ferric | hi |
| 19:58.23 | ScaredyCat | . |
| 19:58.51 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=matrix@59.176.111.177) |
| 19:59.20 | woglinde | re |
| 19:59.33 | ferric | Jason1: so you got an email, eh? |
| 19:59.42 | Jason1 | ferric: Yup :) :) :) |
| 20:00.32 | Jason1 | Yeah, there is a recent discussion o nthe mailing list about ringtones. Someone posted a link to the SVN repository with a few that someone have been playing with. |
| 20:00.32 | Jason1 | http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/sounds/ |
| 20:02.20 | Jason1 | ferric: YOu are under #1000, you should be in the 1st batch |
| 20:02.35 | SpeedEvil | You're assuming that most people are responding positively to I_WANT_ONE |
| 20:02.38 | *** join/#openmoko charkins (n=casey@pdpc/supporter/active/charkins) |
| 20:02.54 | ferric | Jason1: when did you get your email and what was the subject? |
| 20:03.42 | Jason1 | ferric: One hour ago. See for yourself: http://www.chooseopen.com/PaymentReceived.png |
| 20:04.00 | DukeOfUrl | I'm RT #1970 but haven't received any communication. |
| 20:05.33 | *** part/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dantaliz@n128-227-99-148.xlate.ufl.edu) |
| 20:05.33 | ferric | Jason1: sweet. :) |
| 20:05.55 | charkins | I'm #1845 and haven't received any yet either, but I'm trying to be patient. :-) |
| 20:06.23 | ferric | shrug. |
| 20:06.41 | ferric | i'm not impatient - there's very little most people will do with the deve preview unless they've already got code written. |
| 20:07.02 | ewanm89_laptop | gtg, I leave the bot running if I can get away with it. |
| 20:07.07 | ScaredyCat | hardware ods ferric |
| 20:07.09 | ScaredyCat | mods |
| 20:07.21 | ferric | ScaredyCat: to do what? |
| 20:07.22 | Jason1 | ferric: We can put it around our neck and walk around Walmart :) LOL |
| 20:07.28 | ferric | Jason1: touche |
| 20:07.31 | ScaredyCat | mokobot: can I has a openmoko |
| 20:07.42 | *** join/#openmoko linux-bastler_ (n=ingmarri@p5B12D303.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:07.45 | ewanm89_laptop | ferric: Some of us have got code, and we can't order the dev preview. |
| 20:07.47 | ferric | you can also use it as a chickmagnet. :) |
| 20:08.05 | Jason1 | ferric: I hear that this thing will suck them right in. |
| 20:08.05 | SpeedEvil | ferric: was the amount accurate? |
| 20:08.07 | ferric | ewanm89_laptop: yes, but those of you are a very small percentage. :) |
| 20:08.08 | ScaredyCat | ferric: expansion modules, cases, battery packs etc |
| 20:08.26 | ewanm89_laptop | ferric: :( :( :( |
| 20:08.28 | ferric | ScaredyCat: not exciting. |
| 20:08.44 | ScaredyCat | I didn't say exciting |
| 20:08.45 | ferric | ewanm89_laptop: if it was upto me, i'd give anyone that wrote any code and published it a free neo :) |
| 20:08.52 | ferric | ScaredyCat: true that. |
| 20:09.00 | ferric | SpeedEvil: amount? |
| 20:09.27 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: can I has a openmoko |
| 20:09.27 | mokobot | rumour has it, can i has a openmoko is No |
| 20:09.35 | SpeedEvil | ferric: the PNG says tha the amount may not be the same as it was on the wabshop. |
| 20:09.39 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: can I has a openmoko |
| 20:09.40 | mokobot | [can i has a openmoko] No |
| 20:09.45 | ewanm89_laptop | mokobot: can I has a openmoko? |
| 20:09.45 | mokobot | somebody said can i has a openmoko was No |
| 20:09.46 | aloril | (script) planet: Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: GUADEC - last day http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/07/18/guadec-last-day/ Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: GUADEC continued http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/07/18/guadec-continued/ Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: GUADEC: preparations to travel http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/07/12/guadec-preparations-to-travel/ Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: Neo1973 now available! http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/07/09/neo1973-now-available/ |
| 20:09.53 | ScaredyCat | mokobot: are you slwo or what |
| 20:10.04 | Jason1 | SpeedEvil: Thats my email... The amount was $20 LESS than projected |
| 20:10.17 | *** join/#openmoko Twey (n=twey@cpc1-brig1-0-0-cust733.brig.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:10.18 | ewanm89_laptop | ScaredyCat: Um, seems to have got lost in my problem earlier. |
| 20:10.29 | ewanm89_laptop | I remade the factfile. |
| 20:10.30 | ScaredyCat | mokobot: forget can i has a openmoko |
| 20:10.31 | mokobot | i forgot can i has a openmoko, ScaredyCat |
| 20:10.36 | ferric | SpeedEvil: it looks like it's lesser |
| 20:10.43 | ferric | yeah, the overnight shipping is $30 |
| 20:10.54 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 20:10.54 | ScaredyCat | mokobot: can I has a openmoko is <reply> No |
| 20:10.55 | mokobot | ScaredyCat: okay |
| 20:11.00 | ScaredyCat | mokobot: can I has a openmoko |
| 20:11.01 | mokobot | No |
| 20:11.09 | ewanm89_laptop | Ah, thanks |
| 20:11.21 | ewanm89_laptop | Night guys. |
| 20:11.25 | ScaredyCat | night |
| 20:11.53 | SiO2 | is openmoko ported to other phones then neo1973? espacially htc phoneds? |
| 20:12.00 | SpeedEvil | The answer to almost all software questions is 'no'. There is very little working software - the dialer just about works. |
| 20:12.07 | ferric | SiO2: treo 650 - somewhat |
| 20:12.16 | SpeedEvil | When that's working - porting will be worked on |
| 20:12.24 | Jason1 | SiO2: someone was running it on another device. A link is in the wiki. DOnt remember the specifics |
| 20:12.37 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-25.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:12.40 | SpeedEvil | ferric: where are you? |
| 20:12.45 | ferric | SpeedEvil: new york |
| 20:12.51 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 20:13.03 | ferric | in other news, makemokofile has been running in my virtual machine since last night. |
| 20:13.08 | ferric | i mean: make openmoko-devel |
| 20:13.21 | ferric | SpeedEvil: and you? |
| 20:13.23 | SiO2 | after tomorow, i can get a new phone for my contract, and i will choose one with linux (and moko too???) because, the gui design is nice of moko :) |
| 20:13.27 | Jason1 | SiO2: http://blog.mikeasoft.com/2007/07/01/openmoko-on-a-treo-650/ |
| 20:13.33 | ferric | oh wow. |
| 20:13.34 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-25.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:13.49 | ferric | SiO2: get the neo, then |
| 20:13.52 | ferric | no other phone is worthy |
| 20:13.55 | SpeedEvil | SiO2: The software is _maybe_ going to be ready sometime in october. |
| 20:14.00 | SiO2 | Jason1, this with treo, i know. but i can't get an treo for cheap |
| 20:14.08 | SpeedEvil | Which is highly optimistic. |
| 20:14.16 | ewanm89_laptop | SpeedEvil: You should make a software factfile. |
| 20:14.30 | KungFuBob | so how are things going |
| 20:14.34 | linux-bastler_ | is anybody of you familiar with emulating the Neo with Qemu? |
| 20:14.43 | ewanm89_laptop | Night then. |
| 20:15.26 | SiO2 | neo is fine, maybe i'll get one ( from the seriesmodell), but i'll try it out with an other phone ;) |
| 20:15.48 | Jason1 | SiO2: Have you run it in the emulator yet? |
| 20:16.03 | Jason1 | linux-bastler_: barely |
| 20:16.09 | SiO2 | Jason1, yes, but veeeerrrry slllooow |
| 20:16.26 | Jason1 | SiO2: Might be that way on the phone too... :) |
| 20:17.33 | SiO2 | :( |
| 20:17.34 | linux-bastler_ | I have the Neo working in Qemu fine but if I want to have the network device I get the following error: Warning: could not find gadgetfs |
| 20:18.25 | linux-bastler_ | I have all done like it's described in the wiki |
| 20:18.40 | ScaredyCat | Jason1: cycle |
| 20:19.43 | C7 | Jason1: no its way faster than on my pc .. ok its still not as fast as it coud be |
| 20:20.17 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.54) |
| 20:20.24 | Jason1 | C7: Excellent. Cant wait to feel the Neo between my fingers |
| 20:20.36 | *** join/#openmoko Sirclown82 (n=Sirclown@adsl-75-53-40-243.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:21.17 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8720.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:21.36 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:21.55 | *** join/#openmoko GvzEvxre (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 20:23.50 | linux-bastler_ | Have anybody in the Channel Qemu working with the emulatet NIC? |
| 20:24.21 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@adsl-dyn55.91-127-114.t-com.sk) |
| 20:24.47 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 20:26.26 | *** join/#openmoko khaije1 (n=khaije1@unaffiliated/khaije1) |
| 20:28.26 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:29.05 | CM | ScaredyCat, galexande: No mail yet :-( |
| 20:29.27 | ScaredyCat | :( |
| 20:29.47 | *** part/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 20:29.47 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 20:30.45 | C7 | CM: me too.. have to get some sleep now |
| 20:31.04 | C7 | night everyone .. and happy "line sitting" ;) |
| 20:31.10 | ScaredyCat | night |
| 20:31.57 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 20:32.05 | *** join/#openmoko lynx (n=lynx@port-87-234-114-48.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 20:35.06 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0FBF0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:35.38 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@craffe.se) |
| 20:36.50 | gdiebel | C7: line sitting is for iLosers |
| 20:36.59 | *** join/#openmoko greentux|fosdem (n=greentux@88.128.40.195) |
| 20:37.16 | *** part/#openmoko greentux|fosdem (n=greentux@88.128.40.195) |
| 20:37.24 | juri_ | repetedly asking "has it shipped yet" in irc channels is for open sourcers. :) |
| 20:37.37 | juri_ | so.. uhm.. has it? :) |
| 20:37.37 | ScaredyCat | has it shipped yet? |
| 20:37.58 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=greentux@88.128.40.195) |
| 20:38.05 | Kero | has what? |
| 20:38.08 | Shoragan | rwhitby, what is the setup-openmoko-developer target of mokomakefile for? |
| 20:38.25 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-25.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:38.57 | ewanm89_laptop | ScaredyCat: Do you like performing bot abuse/ |
| 20:39.03 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 20:39.12 | ewanm89_laptop | s/\//\?/ |
| 20:39.25 | ScaredyCat | but you've disabled the interesting stuff |
| 20:39.44 | ewanm89_laptop | ScaredyCat: Like what? |
| 20:39.47 | Aria | "When will it be here?" "When it's ready." |
| 20:40.03 | ScaredyCat | when people join |
| 20:40.14 | *** join/#openmoko slux (n=slux@host95-22-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:40.29 | slux | hello.. |
| 20:40.30 | ScaredyCat | <nick> is <rreply> blah |
| 20:40.31 | ewanm89_laptop | Um, Probably disabled by default, I'll look into it. |
| 20:40.41 | slux | ~> ./configure --target-list=arm-softmmu |
| 20:40.42 | slux | WARNING: "gcc" looks like gcc 4.x |
| 20:40.46 | ScaredyCat | Jason1?? |
| 20:40.57 | ScaredyCat | mokobot: Jason1 |
| 20:40.57 | slux | :\ i can compile with cc 4.x? |
| 20:41.00 | Jason1 | ScaredyCat: Whats up? |
| 20:41.02 | ewanm89_laptop | not sure on that one, remember I only loaded in a basic config. |
| 20:41.33 | ewanm89_laptop | Jason1: He's messing with the bot. |
| 20:42.38 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=greentux@88.128.40.195) |
| 20:42.57 | ewanm89_laptop | ScaredyCat: I would change settings if you remind me tommorrow, but too much HD thrashing and parents would probably realise and I would have to turn off. |
| 20:43.10 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:43.12 | ScaredyCat | k |
| 20:43.16 | ewanm89_laptop | Shouldn't do that though. |
| 20:43.22 | ewanm89_laptop | Night |
| 20:43.28 | ScaredyCat | night |
| 20:43.47 | ewanm89_laptop | And make as many factfiles as you need. |
| 20:45.34 | andylockran | many people got their cards charged? |
| 20:45.54 | summatusmentis | 1, afaik |
| 20:50.27 | *** join/#openmoko mos (n=mos@c-6fade455.76-0068-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:50.30 | mos | i sell runescape stat editor add my msn mas_mas91@hotmail.com if you want it. |
| 20:51.01 | summatusmentis | !op |
| 20:51.10 | summatusmentis | shit, wrong window |
| 20:51.14 | SpeedFire_ | ^^ |
| 20:51.21 | SpeedFire_ | farewell, spammer. |
| 20:51.49 | *** part/#openmoko mos (n=mos@c-6fade455.76-0068-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 20:52.03 | xkr47 | nn |
| 20:52.25 | summatusmentis | who are the ops in this channel anyway? |
| 20:53.33 | CM | Don't think there's any op besides ChanServ |
| 20:53.41 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:53.50 | xkr47 | who needs ops :) |
| 20:53.59 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:54.07 | SpeedEvil | micke y only |
| 20:54.38 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=greentux@88.128.52.130) |
| 20:54.47 | xkr47 | good night.. naybe tomorrow a few more people have received their order conf.. |
| 20:54.57 | woglinde | hehe |
| 20:54.58 | woglinde | good |
| 20:55.02 | woglinde | more mokos |
| 20:55.05 | woglinde | in the world |
| 20:55.19 | ynezz | xkr47: you received one already? |
| 20:55.29 | SpeedEvil | no - he didn't. |
| 20:55.44 | xkr47 | not last time I checked |
| 20:56.00 | xkr47 | heh SpeedEvil |
| 20:57.46 | Psi | so a few people have received order conf already? |
| 20:57.48 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 20:57.54 | ScaredyCat | 1 |
| 20:57.58 | Psi | haha |
| 20:58.18 | Psi | was he the first ticket number? |
| 20:58.26 | ScaredyCat | ya |
| 20:58.34 | ScaredyCat | that we know of |
| 20:58.43 | CM | Roh said he was first |
| 20:58.56 | ScaredyCat | k, so ya |
| 21:01.34 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=orzo@70.89.88.195) |
| 21:01.47 | ferric | anyone else get email other than that faker Jason? |
| 21:02.33 | orzo | not me |
| 21:02.44 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:03.01 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@p548907E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:06.45 | Jason1 | ferric: I heard that |
| 21:07.04 | *** join/#openmoko [berserk] (n=[Berserk@212-70-208-108.ath.static.tee.gr) |
| 21:07.14 | ferric | hahaha |
| 21:07.17 | ferric | (sorry!) |
| 21:07.28 | Jason1 | hehe |
| 21:08.19 | IR3 | Jason1: i heard you hijacked the phones :P |
| 21:08.20 | ScaredyCat | yeah, must be a fake.... |
| 21:08.45 | ScaredyCat | or Jason1 is paying for all of them.. |
| 21:08.48 | Jason1 | IR3: hehe |
| 21:09.29 | Jason1 | ScaredyCat: I owrked out a deal with FIC to "test" their delivery pipline. They send me the first phone so that I can make sure everything goes smoothly for the rest of you... |
| 21:09.43 | Jason1 | j/k |
| 21:09.44 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-167-204.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:10.59 | Jason1 | I should call UPS and request a package pickup at the FIC-California address |
| 21:11.05 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 21:12.40 | linux-bastler1 | night |
| 21:12.41 | *** part/#openmoko linux-bastler1 (n=ingmarri@p5B12D303.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:13.05 | Jason1 | charkins: Good idea. Now that they charged my card, maybe I can request a local pickup. |
| 21:13.39 | Jason1 | charkins: What part of WI? Im in Chicago |
| 21:14.01 | charkins | I'm in Madison. I'm actually living sorta half time (3-4 days/week) in Chicago. |
| 21:14.12 | charkins | Through the end of the year. |
| 21:14.20 | Jason1 | cool |
| 21:17.56 | *** join/#openmoko Qwell[] (i=qwell@pdpc/sponsor/digium/Qwell) |
| 21:18.23 | *** join/#openmoko Qwell[] (i=qwell@pdpc/sponsor/digium/Qwell) |
| 21:19.13 | ferric | wow - maybe you can do a chicago openmoko dev meetup |
| 21:19.50 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-83-120.w90-18.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:21.07 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass__ (n=chatzill@johnkerry.plus.com) |
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| 21:26.47 | *** join/#openmoko soccerpirate4 (i=8f450331@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-0d23ed7d575390b4) |
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| 21:38.11 | SpeedEvil | Can the wiki do imagemaps? |
| 21:38.25 | Elrond | I doubt it. |
| 21:39.06 | aloril | (script) planet: Jouston Huang: Finally, Neo 1973 is on the way to you http://jouston.no-ip.com/archives/000227.html |
| 21:39.07 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Portland]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups]] [[Wish_List]] [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Montreal]] [[Neo1973_Hardware/ru]] |
| 21:39.36 | woglinde | he elrond |
| 21:39.56 | Elrond | Hi woglinde |
| 21:43.22 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> wiki.openmoko.org <> Buy now for $300 from www.openmoko.com - Direct Link to Buy: https://direct.openmoko.com/ | Delivery unlikely before 2007-07-23 (phones are in the states, and will be delivered cheaply by UPS) If you ordered early, reply YES_I_DO to confirmation email. (no reply) |
| 21:44.01 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> wiki.openmoko.org <> Buy now for $300 from www.openmoko.com - Direct Link to Buy: https://direct.openmoko.com/ | Delivery unlikely before 2007-07-23 (phones are in the states, and will be delivered cheaply by UPS) | If you ordered early, reply YES_I_DO to confirmation email. (will not reply) |
| 21:44.27 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> wiki.openmoko.org | Buy now for $300 from www.openmoko.com - Direct Link to Buy: https://direct.openmoko.com/ | Delivery unlikely before 2007-07-23 (phones are in the states, and will be delivered cheaply by UPS) | If you ordered early, reply YES_I_DO to confirmation email. (will not reply) |
| 21:44.32 | SpeedEvil | There. |
| 21:44.39 | woglinde | hm |
| 21:44.40 | woglinde | *g* |
| 21:45.45 | codyl | whats the change..? |
| 21:46.05 | SpeedEvil | Basically that the phones are in the states, and that they may ship before the end of the week. |
| 21:46.32 | ferric | wow.... that http://jouston.no-ip.com/archives/000227.html |
| 21:46.39 | ferric | is uncomprehensible, almost |
| 21:48.28 | Twey | So what I'm getting from the Developer_preview page is that there'll be hardware upgrades from the developer preview as well as software? So anyone who buys one now is likely to have to (or want to) buy another later anyway? |
| 21:48.39 | *** join/#openmoko luckie (n=luckie@adsl-070-148-012-045.sip.mgm.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:48.59 | *** part/#openmoko charkins (n=casey@pdpc/supporter/active/charkins) |
| 21:49.19 | SpeedEvil | Twey: there are hardware changes. |
| 21:49.26 | SpeedEvil | Probably. |
| 21:49.48 | SpeedEvil | faq? |
| 21:49.49 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) |
| 21:51.36 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 21:52.33 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.54) |
| 21:53.18 | Twey | Heh, it's kind of awe-inspiring to realise that a 'phone nowdays has as much processing power as an average computer a decade or so ago |
| 21:53.23 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A36F77.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:53.25 | XXLT | hi, will umts functionality be included in further neo revisions? |
| 21:53.39 | SpeedEvil | XXLT: faq? |
| 21:53.42 | SpeedEvil | faq? |
| 21:53.43 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) |
| 21:53.43 | Twey | Actually it doesn't feel like a decade at all, where's the time gone? |
| 21:54.14 | SpeedEvil | XXLT: localised phones will turn up after the P2 sells in bunches. |
| 21:59.32 | pjz | I must admit that one super cool thing openmoko will enable is for me to be able to use it as a wifi SIP handset talking to the asterisk server at work |
| 21:59.43 | pjz | s/openmoko/GTA02 |
| 22:00.59 | ferric | heh. bring on the asterisk questions. :P |
| 22:01.02 | *** join/#openmoko drear (n=drear@nblzone-208-36.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 22:03.23 | SpeedEvil | What would be _really_ cool would be if the GSM-random VOIP - call handover could be done. |
| 22:03.41 | SpeedEvil | And back |
| 22:04.27 | ferric | SpeedEvil: you mean Unlicensed Mobile Access? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List#Unlicensed_Mobile_Access_.28UMA.29 |
| 22:04.30 | Shoragan | SpeedEvil, that would need support from the GSM provider |
| 22:04.51 | SpeedEvil | Shoragan: pretty much. |
| 22:05.21 | Shoragan | although you could probably achieve something similar be routing all calls to your mobile through an asterisk server first |
| 22:05.29 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 22:05.39 | Shoragan | which would negate the cost advantage ;) |
| 22:05.40 | SpeedEvil | Not quite. |
| 22:05.56 | SpeedEvil | I want if I walk past an AP I have rights to, it to 'roam' onto there. |
| 22:06.05 | Shoragan | yes |
| 22:06.23 | Shoragan | for that you need to have full control of the connection |
| 22:06.57 | Shoragan | which you can have by using the number of you asterisk box as your phone number |
| 22:07.23 | Shoragan | if it can't reach you via VoIP it will connect to your mobile via GSM |
| 22:07.52 | *** join/#openmoko RbdPngn_ (n=ningerso@uslink-66.173.44-135.uslink.net) |
| 22:07.56 | Shoragan | gsm->voip handover could be done pretty seamless |
| 22:08.21 | Shoragan | but for the other way round, it's too late when you lose WiFi ;) |
| 22:08.29 | LetoTo | shoragan: In your dreams :) |
| 22:09.09 | LetoTo | use the gps. if the phone starts walking, switch to gsm before it is too late :) |
| 22:09.16 | ferric | lol |
| 22:09.20 | Shoragan | good idea |
| 22:09.20 | ferric | LetoTo: brilliant |
| 22:09.38 | Shoragan | gsm call setup takes about 4-6 seconds |
| 22:09.44 | ferric | well the gps needs to know if the phone is going to lose wifi |
| 22:09.45 | Shoragan | that should be enough |
| 22:10.21 | LetoTo | do you need the poll the gps? Or can it just send data when it changes? |
| 22:10.26 | Vegar | wouldn't it be better to use the wifi signal strength to determine when to switch back to GSM? |
| 22:11.10 | Shoragan | Vegar, theoretically yes, but then it is often too late, the wifi strength is not very accurate |
| 22:11.18 | Elrond | LetoTo - You need to poll. |
| 22:11.22 | Vegar | right |
| 22:11.29 | Elrond | LetoTo - It's quite dumb. |
| 22:11.58 | Shoragan | but i have a voice flatrate for gsm anyway, so that handover is not that useful |
| 22:12.04 | ferric | it's probably a combination of wifi signal strength and gps data |
| 22:12.15 | LetoTo | shoragan: what country? |
| 22:12.21 | Shoragan | germany |
| 22:12.30 | LetoTo | you have flate gsm voice? |
| 22:12.38 | LetoTo | not gprs? |
| 22:12.48 | Shoragan | to same network and landline |
| 22:12.55 | Shoragan | and umts flat on a different sim |
| 22:14.02 | Shoragan | so i can call my asterisk box from anywhere and use my SIP account to call anywhere in the world ;) |
| 22:14.33 | LetoTo | oh |
| 22:14.35 | Elrond | hehe |
| 22:14.53 | LetoTo | yeah, i need to setup my pbx to do callback |
| 22:15.14 | LetoTo | then out via a sip provider at rock bottom prices |
| 22:16.08 | ferric | it sucks that you can't buy tmobile phones or the router online yet. |
| 22:17.24 | Shoragan | i've build an openmoko live-cd which you can use to run openmoko in qemu without having to install anything |
| 22:17.26 | Shoragan | http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/~jluebbe/om-live/ |
| 22:17.48 | Shoragan | perhaps it is useful to someone ;) |
| 22:18.09 | Elrond | Shoragan - qemu-neo1973-arm? or qemu-ia32? |
| 22:18.50 | Shoragan | qemu-neo1973-arm |
| 22:19.08 | Shoragan | it's simple a precompiled mokomakefile |
| 22:19.18 | Elrond | ahh :) |
| 22:19.25 | ferric | Shoragan: ack! where were you yesterday - i'm building mokomakefile from scratch on my ubuntu VM and it's taking FOREVER! |
| 22:19.48 | Shoragan | its using the downloaded images though |
| 22:20.00 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@207.81.133.5) |
| 22:20.03 | Elrond | Shoragan - You mean from buildhost? |
| 22:20.08 | Shoragan | yes |
| 22:20.21 | Elrond | Which are two weeks old. ;-) |
| 22:20.37 | Shoragan | but you can simply boot from cd and click "run qemu" |
| 22:20.50 | Shoragan | Elrond, they havn't changed that much anyway |
| 22:21.36 | Elrond | Shoragan - Well, some smallish bugs here and there ;) |
| 22:21.41 | Shoragan | i'll have to try RM_WORK again |
| 22:21.56 | Shoragan | then a full environment may be possible |
| 22:22.17 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:22.22 | Shoragan | hi |
| 22:22.29 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-188-122-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:22.42 | *** join/#openmoko hozer (n=hozer@excalibur.hozed.org) |
| 22:23.29 | hozer | so, um.. is there a 'where are the phones' page on the wiki? |
| 22:23.54 | woglinde | hm? |
| 22:24.02 | gcb77 | Shoragan: what distro did you use? |
| 22:24.06 | Shoragan | debian |
| 22:24.10 | Shoragan | lenny |
| 22:24.20 | gcb77 | Can you ssh into the emu? |
| 22:24.21 | Elrond | Okay... the RTC works in the Neo. :-) |
| 22:24.29 | Shoragan | should work |
| 22:24.37 | Elrond | Finally not anymore 1970 :-) |
| 22:24.46 | woglinde | elrond hm? |
| 22:24.51 | Shoragan | Elrond, just flashed a new kernel? |
| 22:24.52 | woglinde | even after poweroff? |
| 22:24.58 | gcb77 | did you set up the gadgetfs and cdc_ether modules? |
| 22:25.15 | Elrond | Shoragan - Just hacked a bootscript :-) But yes, I saw your kernel fixup. |
| 22:25.27 | Elrond | woglinde - Yep, even after poweroff. Just verified. |
| 22:25.29 | Shoragan | it was alphaone's fix |
| 22:25.39 | woglinde | elrond nice |
| 22:25.45 | woglinde | ah |
| 22:25.49 | woglinde | ~hail alphaone |
| 22:25.50 | apt | ACTION bows down to alphaone and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 22:25.50 | Elrond | woglinde - Oh, or alpaone. Anyway, my kernel is old. |
| 22:26.00 | Elrond | Huh. |
| 22:26.06 | Elrond | Shoragan - Oh, or alpaone. Anyway, my kernel is old. |
| 22:26.54 | Shoragan | Elrond, it was committed on 11.7. |
| 22:27.10 | gcb77 | Shoragan: if you are in need of bandwith, I have a site that can be used as a mirror |
| 22:27.12 | Elrond | Shoragan - My kernel is from buildhost and a month old or so :-) |
| 22:27.23 | woglinde | hm |
| 22:27.24 | woglinde | hehe |
| 22:27.47 | don-o | woot. first report of a CC getting charged. |
| 22:28.00 | hozer | hah |
| 22:28.02 | hozer | where ;) |
| 22:28.18 | don-o | the community mailing list |
| 22:28.30 | *** join/#openmoko GvzEvxre (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 22:29.30 | Shoragan | gcb77, thanks, but that won't be a problem |
| 22:31.20 | Elrond | Shoragan - Oh, and the newer svn has the long-click on panel-openmoko-mainmenu to show finger-main-menu, which I wasnted to try. ;) |
| 22:31.34 | Shoragan | our debian mirror uses about 10TB each month, some ISOs won't matter |
| 22:32.10 | Elrond | hehe |
| 22:32.12 | Shoragan | Elrond, i'll try using my image later |
| 22:32.49 | Shoragan | these are the benefits of being network admin in a student home ;) |
| 22:34.51 | *** join/#openmoko quickdev (n=deluxe@Vc3fa.v.pppool.de) |
| 22:34.54 | quickdev | Hello |
| 22:35.03 | cesarb | SpeedEvil: (very late reply) there is a imagemap extension for mediawiki |
| 22:35.41 | SpeedEvil | cesarb: due to dependacies, the wiki is stuck with an old version of mediawiki |
| 22:36.28 | *** part/#openmoko Markinoko (n=Markinok@bgn92-4-82-238-213-101.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:39.51 | Shoragan | elrond, do you use mokomakefile? |
| 22:40.08 | Shoragan | if so, trying the new menu should be easy ;) |
| 22:42.26 | quickdev | Is it possible to play a ringtone mp3 at the moment? |
| 22:42.55 | codyl | quickdev, the dialer is not full-featured as of yet |
| 22:43.19 | quickdev | I know - or not as ringtone - as standard music file? |
| 22:44.18 | SpeedEvil | You can play mp3 |
| 22:44.20 | Aria | The audio hardware works |
| 22:44.28 | codyl | madplay <filename> |
| 22:44.50 | quickdev | oh..nice :) |
| 22:45.42 | quickdev | so it would be basically usable as mp3 player, if the power management would be working? |
| 22:46.14 | codyl | its usable- if you dont mind command line and virtual keyboard |
| 22:48.01 | SpeedEvil | quickdev: at the moment, the battery lasts maybe 5-7 hours as an MP3 player. |
| 22:48.12 | SpeedEvil | quickdev: as I understand it - I have no hardware. |
| 22:48.31 | Aria | Hell, that's pretty much what my T509 gets. |
| 22:48.34 | SpeedEvil | In principle, this should be boostable to 20+, if the CPU can be slowed down as promised by the datasheet |
| 22:48.37 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:48.39 | Aria | Okay, so it gets 12, but oy. |
| 22:48.44 | cesarb | Is there any way on bitbake to clean old packages? |
| 22:48.55 | quickdev | SpeedEvil: 20+ would be awesome ;) |
| 22:49.09 | cesarb | (i.e. erase the working dir/resulting package only for packages which aren't the most recent ones anymore) |
| 22:49.32 | cesarb | or do I have to periodically purge everything and rebuild to remove the space waste? |
| 22:49.47 | *** join/#openmoko spliffy (n=frost@p54B1D072.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:49.53 | *** join/#openmoko ds1 (n=dpfleger@nat0.xsigo.com) |
| 22:49.56 | galexande | bill my cc, pretty pretty please |
| 22:49.57 | galexande | with sugar on top |
| 22:50.20 | quickdev | SpeedEvil: is basic power management like turning off the screen already working? |
| 22:50.22 | gcb77 | anybody else get charged yet? |
| 22:50.28 | SpeedEvil | quickdev: yes. |
| 22:52.02 | quickdev | and there's a problem with shutting down the cpu atm? :P |
| 22:52.35 | SpeedEvil | quickdev: slowing down. |
| 22:52.42 | SpeedEvil | Shutting it off works just fine. |
| 22:52.49 | quickdev | ah, ok^^ |
| 22:53.01 | quickdev | is 12mhz enough for mp3 playing? |
| 22:53.04 | quickdev | ? |
| 22:53.26 | ds1 | does anyone know how many made it in this shipment |
| 22:53.33 | ds1 | and what order that makes it thru |
| 22:53.45 | gcb77 | cesarb: do you mean cleaning up the source using rm_work? (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile#Tips) |
| 22:54.24 | cesarb | gcb77: no, i mean removing the build packages and their work directories when they become obsolete |
| 22:54.29 | cesarb | s/build/built/ |
| 22:54.30 | mokobot | cesarb meant: gcb77: no, i mean removing the built packages and their work directories when they become obsolete |
| 22:54.35 | cesarb | urgh |
| 22:55.53 | *** join/#openmoko waldmeister (n=waldmeis@i59F741D9.versanet.de) |
| 22:56.08 | don-o | moko ninja to the rescue: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Dsvyr656c78 |
| 22:56.37 | *** join/#openmoko chouse (n=chadh@CPE001057000aad-CM001225d73c82.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:59.35 | Elrond | Shoragan - (mokomakefile) My current desktop has not enough cpu/disk to do a full mokomakefile run. I mostly build console apps there. X11 is just a monster. |
| 22:59.59 | Shoragan | ah |
| 23:00.52 | Elrond | Shoragan - the gui apps I build straight for my desktop, if I really need to debug them for bug. |
| 23:01.12 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-69-10.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 23:01.13 | Elrond | .oO(Still waiting for someone to commit my dialer patch...) |
| 23:01.34 | don-o | openmoko startup sound: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/sounds/startup_openmoko.mp3 |
| 23:01.49 | quickdev | Elrond: what did you improve? :) |
| 23:01.55 | Shoragan | Elrond, bug numer? |
| 23:02.11 | Elrond | #631 |
| 23:02.29 | Elrond | Shoragan - But please test it before commiting :-)) |
| 23:02.47 | Elrond | quickdev - Made it not segfault on some situation. |
| 23:03.03 | Shoragan | nah, i'll just refer to you in the commit message |
| 23:03.06 | *** join/#openmoko fiveplusone (n=six@dyn-160-39-247-233.dyn.columbia.edu) |
| 23:04.24 | quickdev | fine :) |
| 23:04.48 | Elrond | Shoragan - ;o) |
| 23:05.17 | Elrond | I still wonder, why nobody looked at it till now. |
| 23:05.38 | Elrond | I mean, I don't need it commited sooner. Just wondering. |
| 23:05.58 | quickdev | Is the speaker loud enough to play a mp3 song? |
| 23:06.17 | Elrond | quickdev - You mean the one for "external"? Yes. |
| 23:06.57 | quickdev | Elrond: Isn't there an internal speaker? |
| 23:08.02 | Elrond | quickdev - s/external/the stereo ones meant for blastering all the people around you (not to be confused with the ear-speaker, which only blasters your ear, while holding the neo to your ear)/ |
| 23:08.43 | Elrond | The stereo ones and the ear-speaker are really better quality than I was expecting from a phone. |
| 23:09.26 | quickdev | ah :) So I would be possible to hear a song while walking to a friend without ear speakers? |
| 23:09.37 | *** join/#openmoko arw_ (i=familia@190.24.89.71) |
| 23:09.56 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@static-87-79-68-60.netcologne.de) |
| 23:10.11 | Elrond | Well, you probably should hold the neo in your hand for that to be good to hear. But yes. |
| 23:10.31 | *** join/#openmoko ljp (n=lpotter@203.94.178.46) |
| 23:10.56 | webjames | for the startup sound i like the sound on the end of the openmoko videos |
| 23:11.53 | quickdev | Can't we take the windows xp startup sound? *duck* |
| 23:12.51 | ds1 | 1820 was the order that was filled |
| 23:13.32 | ferric | atleast. |
| 23:13.37 | ferric | no on else as come forward. :/ |
| 23:14.18 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A0AF57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:17.01 | *** join/#openmoko F3E8A2F3 (n=F3E8A2F3@c-69-136-66-172.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 23:18.58 | andylockran | I reckon we need a proper sound - submissions on the site too |
| 23:23.56 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r2382 10/trunk/oe/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Update the kernel to the current point release (2.6.21.6). |
| 23:32.06 | Shoragan | Elrond, you could try http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/~jluebbe/om-images/ in your emulator |
| 23:32.10 | linux_galore | somthing I have never done is compare the screen side (physically) between a NEO and a 5G iPOD, the NEO' screen is a bit bigger and with higher res so it should be better to watch Video's by a mile |
| 23:32.24 | linux_galore | s/side/size/ |
| 23:32.24 | mokobot | linux_galore meant: somthing I have never done is compare the screen size (physically) between a NEO and a 5G iPOD, the NEO' screen is a bit bigger and with higher res so it should be better to watch Video's by a mile |
| 23:33.17 | linux_galore | You cant really watch anime on a 5G ipod because the text is too blurry, hope the NEO (GTA02) is better |
| 23:33.41 | SpeedEvil | 2 may be. |
| 23:34.03 | SpeedEvil | 1 - you're probably going to be using QVGA mode |
| 23:35.45 | linux_galore | well the 02 should have more than enough grunt to play video, I wonder if you have to re-encode the resolution |
| 23:36.33 | linux_galore | the GPX2 plays video files in just about any resolution and thats Linux based (and open) |
| 23:36.36 | SpeedEvil | Well - it's claimed that 2 can do some in hardware |
| 23:36.56 | linux_galore | GP2X sorry |
| 23:38.19 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: nick the video player from the GP2X its runs an arm cpu |
| 23:38.35 | SpeedEvil | I thought there was hardware involved in the GP2X |
| 23:38.53 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: yeah it has a second cpu for video |
| 23:38.59 | *** join/#openmoko ckuethe (n=ckuethe@S0106000024c38a18.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 23:39.06 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Games]] [[Wish_List]] [[Wishlist:More/Custom_Input_Method_Widgets]] |
| 23:40.04 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: but not the cpu's in the GP2X are no way as fast as the 02 |
| 23:40.09 | linux_galore | note* |
| 23:40.40 | linux_galore | I would say the 02 has more grunt to be honest |
| 23:40.42 | SpeedEvil | Dinno. |
| 23:41.59 | Elrond | Shoragan - I could try the kernel on the real thing. ;) But tomorrow. I need to get to bed really soon |
| 23:42.56 | Elrond | Good night people :-) |
| 23:47.10 | pigpen | So, if I buy a phone, is the base usable? |
| 23:48.31 | don-o | pigpen: once people receive their phones (in a week), that will become obvious. |
| 23:48.39 | don-o | pigpen: until then, its speculation. |
| 23:48.56 | don-o | pigpen: and its pretty much what im waiting for :) |
| 23:49.50 | pigpen | :) |
| 23:49.52 | pigpen | thanks. |
| 23:50.06 | summatusmentis | I'm waiting for GTA02, at least |
| 23:50.07 | pigpen | My business partner wants me to get a new blackberry. |
| 23:50.26 | don-o | pigpen: its bound to be more reliable than the neo w/ openmoko |
| 23:50.51 | don-o | pigpen: but you'll also be locked in to a carrier and supporting a cruel celluar regime :) |
| 23:50.54 | pigpen | yeah..kinda what I was thinking. |
| 23:51.20 | don-o | someone suggested the slogan "Its not just a phone, its a hobby!" and I think thats true. |
| 23:51.21 | pigpen | Better than my windoz mobile. |
| 23:51.27 | pigpen | Ha! |
| 23:51.33 | pigpen | sounds like my gentoo servers. |
| 23:51.36 | ds1 | my office told me to get a girlfriend not a phone |
| 23:51.38 | don-o | Ha. |
| 23:52.01 | don-o | so far, ive found the phone easier to aquire. |
| 23:52.33 | ds1 | could make for some humor |
| 23:52.47 | ds1 | why my phone is better than hobby/significant other |
| 23:59.39 | linux_galore | we have to be honest though, the NEO wont be fully functional (note the word "fully") for a while |
