| 00:00.06 | Mortimus | 84?F |
| 00:00.16 | Mortimus | 29?C |
| 00:00.27 | summatusmentis | ugh... bad |
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| 00:03.59 | zecke | night |
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| 00:42.23 | CoreDump|home | mickeyl posted in a german forum that phones might ship in the first week of july |
| 00:43.35 | don-o | here it is! http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/006005.html |
| 00:43.47 | don-o | Sean Moss-Pultz: "New Oceans" |
| 00:44.10 | don-o | probably within an hour of the one week mark. |
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| 00:46.45 | don-o | 400 Neos ready. 600 more ready by next week. |
| 00:47.42 | don-o | openmoko.com opens July 9th. two models at $300/$450 |
| 00:47.45 | summatusmentis | don-o: <3 <3 <3 |
| 00:48.31 | summatusmentis | now I have to make a decision, wait till october, or buy GTA01bv4 in august |
| 00:48.56 | don-o | uh, if you think its going to ship on time, i have a bridge to sell yuo. |
| 00:49.12 | don-o | $50 discount. yea! |
| 00:49.21 | summatusmentis | don-o: lol, ok, that's fair |
| 00:49.37 | summatusmentis | but presumably it's pretty similar hardware, just a couple of things added? |
| 00:49.43 | summatusmentis | "P.S. It seems that in all this restructuring, someone has been |
| 00:49.43 | summatusmentis | eavesdropping on us. It could be a spy. Or it could be a ninja. Only |
| 00:49.43 | summatusmentis | time will tell. So stay tuned ;-)" what does that mean? |
| 00:51.21 | CoreDump|home | hrmm 450$ for P2 |
| 00:51.24 | summatusmentis | it looks as though a topic change is in order? |
| 00:55.09 | don-o | $450 for a P2 "sometime in the future" |
| 00:55.17 | don-o | or $300 for a real device now. :) |
| 00:55.17 | summatusmentis | CoreDump|home: you have GTA01b4? |
| 00:55.31 | don-o | where now = july 9 :) |
| 00:55.42 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 00:56.05 | CoreDump|home | summatusmentis: yes |
| 00:56.37 | summatusmentis | heh, tell you what, you sell me yours in august for $300, and then you only have to spend $150 on the GTA02 |
| 00:57.53 | CoreDump|home | nope. The P1 has been a gift. I will not make any money with it =) |
| 00:58.21 | summatusmentis | how righteous of you :-P |
| 00:59.20 | summatusmentis | you all have fun discussing this |
| 00:59.24 | don-o | yes a topic change is definitely in order. |
| 01:01.10 | summatusmentis | wait, their plan is still release in october, sounds like they're optimistic about stabilization of GTA02 |
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| 01:06.33 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:07.19 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Anyone can buy for $300/$450, starting June 9. <> Mass market in October. |
| 01:07.35 | don-o | SpeedEvil: July 9th |
| 01:07.42 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Anyone can buy for $300/$450, starting July 9. <> Mass market in October. |
| 01:07.55 | don-o | cool. |
| 01:08.54 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-75-14.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 01:20.27 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: what are you adding ? |
| 01:20.38 | linux_galore | ?? wiki |
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| 01:26.10 | SpeedEvil | linux_galore: I was editing the page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 in accordance with the latest email |
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| 01:29.50 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: July 05, cool bananas |
| 01:30.14 | SpeedEvil | 09 |
| 01:31.13 | linux_galore | says 05 on the wiki thats all |
| 01:31.47 | summatusmentis | hrm... I know we're all bitter, skeptical, etc. is it likely that they'll stick to the october timeline? |
| 01:31.58 | SpeedEvil | Oops. |
| 01:32.14 | SpeedEvil | That date is also correct, but I forgot to put the important date in :) |
| 01:32.25 | SpeedEvil | IMO - unlikely. |
| 01:32.32 | don-o | summatusmentis: how in the h-e-double-hockey-sticks could someone make an educated guess about that. |
| 01:32.42 | don-o | SpeedEvil: im with you, im thinking january 08 |
| 01:32.51 | SpeedEvil | That's what - 3 full months of dev time. |
| 01:32.53 | linux_galore | so if you grab a GTA01 do you get first in line for the GTA02 ? |
| 01:32.55 | summatusmentis | don-o: true... hrm |
| 01:33.10 | don-o | the delay this time was hardware errors. |
| 01:33.18 | don-o | not fab problems |
| 01:33.22 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: doesn't look like it, but it also doesn't look like they'll be releasing a dev version of GTA02 |
| 01:33.24 | don-o | my guess is more will be found |
| 01:33.36 | SpeedEvil | The hardware errors have massively delayed the software dev time though. |
| 01:33.39 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: that is, no waiting list etc. |
| 01:34.23 | linux_galore | hmm shouldnt have released the early specs for the GTA02, my brain is stuck in a decision loop now |
| 01:34.34 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: me too, me too |
| 01:34.48 | SpeedEvil | Ebay. |
| 01:34.48 | don-o | yeah the gta02 specs make me feel like im buying 'old tech' |
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| 01:35.11 | summatusmentis | I'm leaning towards waiting for GTA02, but if october happens, then that'll coincide w/ leopard release, and I'll already be a poor college student |
| 01:35.15 | SpeedEvil | And presumably they are likely to be willing to give away/discount if you dev a lot. |
| 01:35.15 | linux_galore | sort of oooh shiny I want one, ooh next one is better, but I want one now, yeah but if you wait you can get a better one.....aaaaaaaaaaaaargh |
| 01:35.21 | don-o | but it can be a quad-core directx 10 cell phone and it wont matter if its not in production. |
| 01:35.39 | SpeedEvil | Next shiny one may have HDSPA/UMTS/3G/WIMAX/... |
| 01:36.01 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: next shiny being 02? or whatevers after that? |
| 01:36.47 | unknown_lamer | don-o: old! |
| 01:36.55 | SpeedEvil | 04 maybe |
| 01:36.59 | SpeedEvil | or 05 |
| 01:37.15 | linux_galore | $300 for the basic model is a good price |
| 01:37.20 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 01:37.24 | don-o | im waiting until the neo-cortex interface is available. :) |
| 01:37.34 | unknown_lamer | I paid $350 for a used piece of crap that barely works now |
| 01:37.37 | don-o | linux_galore: yeah im stoked its $50 less |
| 01:38.35 | linux_galore | the thing is you would easily be able to sell the GTA01 when then GTA02 comes out to some Linux geek |
| 01:38.57 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: why wouldn't the linux geek just buy the 02? |
| 01:39.28 | linux_galore | good example is my Zaurus 5600, I paid $250 for it and people are still paying $200+ on ebay because they are hard to get |
| 01:40.03 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: because its here in Australia and they dont have to order it and its cheaper |
| 01:40.49 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: well, I guess that makes sense |
| 01:41.00 | summatusmentis | personally, if i were gonna buy one, I'd buy new |
| 01:41.01 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: Linux gadgets are pretty rare in AU and have to often be ordered from off shore |
| 01:41.02 | summatusmentis | I think i'm gonna wait, my reasoning being: 1)there are a couple of key things in 02 I feel like i need 2)polished interface 3)I'll be in a spot where my current phone doesn't work, I might be able to get out of contract |
| 01:41.17 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: essentially same in the US |
| 01:41.54 | SpeedEvil | What do you need in 02? |
| 01:42.15 | summatusmentis | well, need isn't the right word, but wifi, and accelerometers |
| 01:42.20 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: yeah, 6-8 months wont kill me either I already have a fairly new Nokia N95 |
| 01:43.02 | linux_galore | no wifi is a big deal buster for me because all my network stuff is wifi now |
| 01:43.24 | linux_galore | (Nokia wifi is a total no brainer to use) |
| 01:43.53 | SpeedEvil | Add accellerometers - 1 3 axes for $40 fitted. |
| 01:43.53 | summatusmentis | I've got a working phone, and i might be in a better position to purchase in 6-8 months |
| 01:46.23 | summatusmentis | wifi? |
| 01:46.24 | aloril | P1.5 will likely have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/000012.html http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F (WiFi status for P1.5 will be known for sure when P1 becomes available and also what kind of discount for P1.5 is given for P1 buyers) |
| 01:46.38 | summatusmentis | what is p1.5? |
| 01:46.43 | SpeedEvil | History |
| 01:47.00 | SpeedEvil | It was a name given to what is now P2. |
| 01:47.08 | summatusmentis | ah, ok |
| 01:47.23 | SpeedEvil | On the assumption - whihc turned out to be incorrect - that P1.5 would not be final shipped hardware to the mass market. |
| 01:47.28 | SpeedEvil | It seems like that's the plan. |
| 01:48.00 | summatusmentis | I see, makes sense |
| 01:48.27 | CoreDump|afk | n8 |
| 01:48.33 | summatusmentis | good night ColdFyre |
| 01:48.40 | summatusmentis | CoreDump|afk** |
| 01:48.46 | summatusmentis | sorry ColdFyre |
| 01:48.48 | ColdFyre | good night |
| 01:48.49 | ColdFyre | heh |
| 01:49.28 | summatusmentis | :-P Sorry |
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| 01:50.22 | paulproteus | zomg, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/006005.html ! |
| 01:50.25 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Anyone can buy for $300, starting June 9. <> Mass market in October for $450. |
| 01:50.36 | paulproteus | SpeedEvil, How about July 9 instead? |
| 01:50.39 | paulproteus | (-; |
| 01:50.46 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Anyone can buy for $300, starting July 9. <> Mass market in October for $450. |
| 01:50.58 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: that's the scond time you've done that :-P |
| 01:51.22 | SpeedEvil | I brought back the topic on history to edit in the mass market price - but I've only got an 80 line long edit window. |
| 01:51.30 | SpeedEvil | So got the wrong one. |
| 01:51.49 | summatusmentis | yeah, no worries |
| 01:52.19 | paulproteus | We're way too excited about an actual date we think will happen to be bothered by typos. |
| 01:52.34 | summatusmentis | paulproteus: :-) |
| 01:52.47 | paulproteus | summatusmentis, For real! (-: |
| 01:53.18 | summatusmentis | oh, I know |
| 01:53.27 | summatusmentis | I'm not even on a waiting list or anything and I'm excited |
| 01:53.44 | summatusmentis | paulproteus: I'm waiting till GTA02 and I'me xcited |
| 01:53.46 | summatusmentis | excited* |
| 01:53.51 | paulproteus | lol, they'll sell a T6 screwdriver with the advanced kit! |
| 01:55.38 | paulproteus | What's with that bizarre eavesdropping note? |
| 01:56.15 | summatusmentis | I've been wondering the same thing |
| 01:56.44 | SpeedEvil | I'm guessing it refers to the blogging |
| 01:57.23 | paulproteus | At first I was guessing it was a reference to AT&T's NSA wiretapping and its relationship to the iPhone. |
| 01:57.36 | paulproteus | But then I realized it was probably not something so obscure. (-: |
| 01:57.48 | summatusmentis | LOL |
| 01:58.14 | *** join/#openmoko gcb77 (n=gbarta@c-24-16-154-132.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 01:58.28 | paulproteus | So he said there are, like, 1000 of them going to be ready? |
| 01:58.34 | paulproteus | Isn't that clearly not going to be enough? |
| 01:58.49 | summatusmentis | he also said more waiting to be given the go signal |
| 01:58.56 | paulproteus | Oh, I guess 600 more before next week, and even more after next week. |
| 01:58.57 | summatusmentis | if nothing else, it'd be a little bit of a wait |
| 01:59.43 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 01:59.46 | paulproteus | Interesting move on making GTA01 cheap and not discounting GTA02. |
| 02:00.06 | SpeedEvil | I hope in a way that 01 stays available. |
| 02:00.10 | paulproteus | I always think it's funny when commercial news sites write news articles that are just summaries of public mailing list posts. |
| 02:00.21 | paulproteus | SpeedEvil, You mean post-02, you'd want 01 to be available? |
| 02:00.24 | summatusmentis | well, GTA01 is a dev machine |
| 02:00.27 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 02:00.30 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: why? |
| 02:00.40 | SpeedEvil | For - forex - embedding into stuff. |
| 02:00.44 | summatusmentis | the iPod nano effect? |
| 02:00.48 | summatusmentis | oh |
| 02:01.18 | SpeedEvil | No - for example making a car touchscreen thing built into the car. |
| 02:01.29 | happycube | yeah |
| 02:01.44 | summatusmentis | I think the screen'd be a bit small, but that makes sense |
| 02:01.47 | SpeedEvil | I don't want accelerometers, 2D accel, wifi for that. |
| 02:01.48 | paulproteus | SpeedEvil, I guess 01 is preferable because it's cheaper and good enough for that? |
| 02:01.50 | happycube | lots of hacker things you can do with 01 |
| 02:02.02 | paulproteus | So I do feel a little silly. July 10th I'm going to start working at a company that happens to have some GTA01s (I don't know which subrevision), and I was thinking that's *so cool*, but then the day before I start I'll just be able to go on the web and buy one. |
| 02:02.12 | SpeedEvil | And if I decide I want wifi, I can glue a hub and a USB stick on, powered by the car. |
| 02:02.26 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: that's very true |
| 02:02.29 | paulproteus | SpeedEvil, "Powered by the car" is a pretty good point. (-: |
| 02:02.47 | summatusmentis | paulproteus: well, wait a couple of days, see what revisions, then see if they'll give you one |
| 02:03.35 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: most media device screens I have are the same size at a lower res than the openmoko, good example is my really expensice Nokia N95 |
| 02:03.35 | linux_galore | expensive* |
| 02:03.41 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: well, yeah, but not in a car setting |
| 02:03.41 | SpeedEvil | I'm not really sure 640*480 has a benefit. |
| 02:03.52 | SpeedEvil | Over say - a 200dpi display |
| 02:04.03 | SpeedEvil | I can see the benefit over QVGA |
| 02:04.07 | paulproteus | I guess I can take the pressure of the sales at this early stage when they'll get swamped, or something. |
| 02:04.41 | paulproteus | SpeedEvil, What is the dpi at 640x480? |
| 02:04.46 | SpeedEvil | 300 |
| 02:04.53 | SpeedEvil | or 283 or something |
| 02:04.58 | SpeedEvil | 293 I think |
| 02:05.15 | paulproteus | That's pretty intense. |
| 02:05.22 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 02:05.38 | SpeedEvil | You can view a 80*25 xterm, if you have it 15cm from your eyes. |
| 02:05.41 | paulproteus | BTW, does anyone have any idea what to do with the accelerometers? |
| 02:05.50 | SpeedEvil | Lots. |
| 02:06.17 | SpeedEvil | The ones announced for the GTA02 are very insensitive - I hope they will choose to re-roll them. |
| 02:06.27 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (i=muciipec@p54953006.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:07.13 | linux_galore | hmm 3.5" would be nicer but if you look at the iPhone the dpi is only 160 |
| 02:07.24 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware and then search for Accel |
| 02:07.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973]] |
| 02:07.42 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: re-roll them? |
| 02:07.46 | paulproteus | SpeedEvil, I mean, does any Free Software exist right now to make useful use of accelerometers? |
| 02:07.52 | SpeedEvil | AIUI - no. |
| 02:08.00 | SpeedEvil | It would all need developed. |
| 02:08.08 | SpeedEvil | Much of it is not complex. |
| 02:08.20 | linux_galore | paulproteus: there is a company that makes portable lab test devices based on Linux |
| 02:08.58 | summatusmentis | but if a base system gets done, then from there it's pretty straightforward? |
| 02:09.05 | summatusmentis | paulproteus: one idea mentioned here earlier was scrolling by rocking the phone whichever way you wanted |
| 02:09.28 | paulproteus | OOH! |
| 02:09.33 | paulproteus | ETCH-A-SKETCH! |
| 02:09.40 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: reading the phone orientation - the way gravity is pointing with respect of the centre of the phone - is easy |
| 02:09.47 | SpeedEvil | Much more gets complex |
| 02:09.58 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: HTC have a very interesting way of changing main menu's , the screen rolls a bit like the cube effect in beryl |
| 02:10.10 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: left right |
| 02:10.19 | SpeedEvil | Etch-a-sketch, that little 'roll a ball round a maze' game, |
| 02:10.56 | SpeedEvil | yo-yo simulator, emergency call after crash option, ... |
| 02:11.03 | gcb77 | it should make a good pedometer too |
| 02:11.06 | paulproteus | SpeedEvil, Hey, with 3D you could do portable TuxRacer where you sway it... |
| 02:11.14 | linux_galore | lol |
| 02:11.26 | linux_galore | or shake the openmoko to go back to main menu |
| 02:11.27 | SpeedEvil | Remember - you only get 2 dimensions of movement |
| 02:11.32 | paulproteus | But really, I'm most excited for Etch-a-Sketch. |
| 02:11.36 | paulproteus | omg, I can't wait. |
| 02:11.57 | SpeedEvil | pitch and yaw 'tilt' with respect to the ground |
| 02:12.02 | LoDown | i'm super pumped... |
| 02:12.31 | LoDown | i really want v2 with the wifi...but october seems so far away... |
| 02:12.42 | linux_galore | I can imagine someong doing the "wanking" gesture with his openmoko and someone taking offense, Im just telling my phone to go back to the main menu lol |
| 02:12.57 | SpeedEvil | Would you swap bluetooth for wifi? |
| 02:13.03 | SpeedEvil | LoDown: |
| 02:13.14 | LoDown | hmmm |
| 02:13.18 | LoDown | yes...prolly... |
| 02:13.19 | paulproteus | That's a really tough choice... |
| 02:13.27 | LoDown | i would use wifi more then bluetooth |
| 02:13.29 | SpeedEvil | True - it's a plausible one though. |
| 02:13.40 | SpeedEvil | It's possible that it's going to be a relatively simple mod. |
| 02:13.46 | linux_galore | the problem with wifi is there are now many cheap portable devices that work with it versus bluetooth |
| 02:13.50 | SpeedEvil | Swap out the bluetooth module, replace a wifi module. |
| 02:14.08 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - and it sucks lots of power |
| 02:15.16 | paulproteus | SpeedEvil, Is it at all feasible to just turn it off for all but 0.25s of every second? |
| 02:15.30 | *** join/#openmoko t[cc]smar (n=[cc]smar@gw.ptr-62-65-142-223.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 02:15.44 | aevin | if you attached the neo onto your wrist while jogging, would it be very uncomfortable because of its weight(+size) ? |
| 02:15.50 | paulproteus | and/or useful? |
| 02:15.54 | *** join/#openmoko FourDollars (n=FourDoll@59-104-128-153.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 02:16.32 | paulproteus | aevin, I would guess so based on what I've seen, but you should probably hear from someone who's actually seen one. |
| 02:16.41 | aevin | for that jogging scenario, i wouldnt mind a landscape interface, e.g for that planned Coach program |
| 02:16.57 | paulproteus | (BTW, the "company" that has Neos that I'm joining is Creative Commons. There's no big-corporation conspiracy or anything.) |
| 02:17.15 | paulproteus | (as far as I know. But maybe the ninjas know better.) |
| 02:17.28 | *** join/#openmoko aesci7E (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 02:17.46 | aevin | paulproteus: do you know what CC is using it for? |
| 02:18.02 | SpeedEvil | paulproteus: to an extent. You run into problems with the itnernet not expecting devices to do that. |
| 02:18.18 | SpeedEvil | So when the radio is off, packets get dropped on the floor. |
| 02:18.20 | paulproteus | SpeedEvil, Well, TCP will figure it out, eventually, hopefully... (-; |
| 02:18.32 | SpeedEvil | Not TCP as we know it. |
| 02:18.34 | SpeedEvil | However. |
| 02:18.34 | paulproteus | aevin, Not really, actually. |
| 02:18.49 | paulproteus | SpeedEvil, If you're lucky, you'll pick up on one of the retransmits, no? |
| 02:18.51 | SpeedEvil | You can do something with a local proxy server that store and forwards your packets |
| 02:18.53 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 02:19.12 | SpeedEvil | If you have the radio on under 50% of the time then retransmit interval will grow exponentially |
| 02:19.19 | paulproteus | Oh, good point. |
| 02:19.21 | paulproteus | That'll suck. |
| 02:19.42 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@144.137.208.23) |
| 02:19.42 | SpeedEvil | You need to have some local proxy that can store and forward. Which isn't hard to do. |
| 02:19.56 | SpeedEvil | But it of course means that it's harder to use random wifi points efficiently. |
| 02:20.07 | paulproteus | SpeedEvil, Of course. |
| 02:20.17 | SpeedEvil | However. |
| 02:20.17 | linux_galore | one issue will be having to have different menu layout as the phone is flipped from landscape etc |
| 02:20.44 | SpeedEvil | If you have the radio up 1s/15, that saves really quite a large amount of power. |
| 02:21.14 | SpeedEvil | On the downside. |
| 02:21.21 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 02:21.41 | SpeedEvil | I know the USB can't be used in slow mode. Anyone know where the wifi will be connected? |
| 02:21.43 | linux_galore | applications will be a bit annoying to develop too because of the landscape/portrait flipping feature |
| 02:22.36 | aevin | linux_galore: yes, perhaps some apps will have two sets of GUIs. |
| 02:22.52 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: I found bt pretty fast for transforming stuff |
| 02:23.07 | linux_galore | transferring * |
| 02:23.08 | SpeedEvil | But - very short range. |
| 02:23.19 | SpeedEvil | And there are no BT accesspoints. |
| 02:23.47 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: Im thinking of transferring to a laptop etc that already has wifi |
| 02:23.58 | SpeedEvil | That'd work. |
| 02:24.01 | aevin | at least I hope we can make a huge on-screen keyboard, perhaps translucent, covering half the bottom of the screen in landscape mode. |
| 02:24.07 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: you can actually network via bt->laptop->wifi |
| 02:24.13 | SpeedEvil | I know |
| 02:24.18 | SpeedEvil | it's not technically hard. |
| 02:24.24 | SpeedEvil | Just there are no pre-built solutions. |
| 02:24.30 | aevin | so if the phone is wrist mountable, i can type on it quite easily. |
| 02:24.32 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: it actually very easy Ive done it |
| 02:24.45 | aevin | fingerwise |
| 02:24.47 | SpeedEvil | You can't buy a BT access point that plugs into your network, I mean. |
| 02:25.01 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: you can |
| 02:25.11 | SpeedEvil | Where? |
| 02:25.21 | SpeedEvil | Sold as a BT access point, and not reconfigured? |
| 02:25.25 | paulproteus | (Turns out you can quiz rejon on why CC has them on #cc, and it has to do with him getting OpenMoko to release non-software components of the platform under CC licenses.) |
| 02:25.44 | SpeedEvil | non-software? |
| 02:25.59 | SpeedEvil | icons/themes? |
| 02:26.08 | aevin | paulproteus: yes,i've read his posts on the community ML about the icons etc. |
| 02:27.13 | *** join/#openmoko poningru (n=poningru@ip72-209-65-174.ga.at.cox.net) |
| 02:27.34 | aevin | i support the idea, but i guess every "artist" would decide for themselves what license to use. |
| 02:27.49 | paulproteus | aevin, Oh, I actually haven't been on community. |
| 02:28.35 | aevin | it's the biggest list. i'm not subscribing to it, just reading the archive through Gmane : http://dir.gmane.org/index.php?prefix=gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko |
| 02:28.57 | aevin | oops. the buglog ML is the biggest :-P |
| 02:29.45 | paulproteus | lol, great. (-: |
| 02:30.13 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 02:30.49 | summatusmentis | stupid weather is making my internet all screwy |
| 02:31.08 | aevin | summatusmentis: having a radio link? |
| 02:31.17 | summatusmentis | sattellite |
| 02:31.32 | summatusmentis | I guess that's radio |
| 02:31.36 | aevin | how's the rate for the uplink? |
| 02:31.42 | aevin | yes, it sure it :) |
| 02:31.56 | aevin | no wires to the satellites;-) |
| 02:32.07 | *** join/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 02:32.17 | summatusmentis | umm... I think it's pretty bad, actually. I'd have to check I'm not entirely sure what upload speeds are |
| 02:32.44 | summatusmentis | aevin: lol, I'm not ver knowledgable w/ wireless technology, and terminology |
| 02:36.17 | SunZhiyong | I am in china, how can i get a phone after July (. |
| 02:37.02 | summatusmentis | SunZhiyong: as far as I know, you should just be able to order it |
| 02:37.09 | aevin | SunZhiyong: I think we are suppose to be able to order them from a webshop at www.openmoko.com |
| 02:38.24 | SunZhiyong | oh, thank you, |
| 02:39.23 | aevin | SunZhiyong: all we know is found here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/006005.html (you may skip the first 10 paragraphs if you're in a hurry) |
| 02:39.51 | *** join/#openmoko AlexZhang (n=alex@58.61.45.63) |
| 02:40.14 | *** join/#openmoko quitte_ (n=quitte@stgt-d9bebc3c.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 02:40.41 | aevin | it'll be interesting to see how the sale goes. if they'll be able to supply the demand. |
| 02:41.55 | aevin | i guess there's a lot of people paying attention to the openmoko project, but i guess it's not nearly as many that is actually commited enough to buy a phone (especially the GTA01, when they know that GTA02 is only some few months off) |
| 02:42.14 | happycube | i think i'll order an 01 monday :) |
| 02:42.26 | paulproteus | aevin, It will be interesting, that's for sure. |
| 02:43.08 | summatusmentis | I think I'll order an 02 in october |
| 02:43.10 | aevin | paulproteus: yes. it'll kind of determine/reveal the strength of the project. |
| 02:43.26 | aevin | we need many devs! |
| 02:44.22 | aevin | although, it's also possible to just develop on a desktop machine with qemu/zephyr or similar too, of course. |
| 02:49.26 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 02:49.48 | SunZhiyong | V02 looks more better than 01 not only the processer but also an accelerator more, :), but the price is more expensive |
| 02:50.08 | summatusmentis | SunZhiyong: that about sums it up :-) |
| 02:51.41 | gcb77 | I've been trying to get the makefile to work and I keep running into a problem with ltrace |
| 02:51.46 | SunZhiyong | When will she has a DC, now nearly every phones has one. |
| 02:51.46 | gcb77 | Seems it can't find gelf.h |
| 02:52.31 | summatusmentis | SunZhiyong: ? |
| 02:53.15 | SunZhiyong | both V02 and V01 do not have DC, am i right? |
| 02:53.59 | linux_galore | the price for the 02 is actually pretty good for what it is |
| 02:54.03 | SunZhiyong | It would be more better if there could be one on the further version. |
| 02:54.23 | linux_galore | well the estimated is anyway |
| 02:54.24 | summatusmentis | SunZhiyong: DC? power? |
| 02:54.59 | linux_galore | extra $100 or so isnt a big deal |
| 02:55.00 | *** join/#openmoko AlexZhan1 (n=alex@58.61.45.63) |
| 02:55.05 | SpeedEvil | Digital Camera? |
| 02:55.22 | SpeedEvil | there are no current plans in announced versions. |
| 02:55.33 | *** join/#openmoko kiney_ (n=kiney@p54882531.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:56.07 | linux_galore | Im not fussed about the camera, all the camera phones I have used have been pretty limited in this respect |
| 02:56.10 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: I worry that by the time 02 is ultimately out, the features it has will be... outdated comparatively |
| 02:56.14 | SunZhiyong | Digital Camera, yes! |
| 02:56.35 | linux_galore | no zoom on most camera phones |
| 02:56.46 | summatusmentis | digital zoom |
| 02:56.49 | linux_galore | and the macro is totally rubbish |
| 02:57.02 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: do the same with photoshop |
| 02:57.16 | summatusmentis | true |
| 02:57.24 | *** join/#openmoko AlexZhan1 (n=alex@58.61.45.63) |
| 02:57.40 | SunZhiyong | but the phone with DC is more important? |
| 02:57.54 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: and a better job (I use digikam to simulate digtal zoom way beter then the built in option of the phone) |
| 02:58.37 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: it has a usb port. always add one lol |
| 02:58.44 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.54) |
| 02:58.47 | *** join/#openmoko AlexZhan1 (n=alexzhan@58.61.45.63) |
| 02:58.59 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: :-P |
| 02:59.20 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: first 10MP camera phone lol |
| 02:59.33 | summatusmentis | SunZhiyong: it depends on what you want. If the digital camera is important to you, then the neo(current version) might not be what you're looking for |
| 02:59.35 | linux_galore | plug a Nokia D80 into the phone lol |
| 02:59.36 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: LOL |
| 03:00.05 | linux_galore | sorry Nikon D80 |
| 03:00.53 | linux_galore | or maybe FIC build a camera phone module you can add on |
| 03:01.28 | summatusmentis | something like the Zaurus SL-6000 expansion sled could be cool |
| 03:01.54 | linux_galore | GTA01 + Nikon D80 = worlds first 10MP camera phone |
| 03:02.21 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 03:02.46 | *** join/#openmoko darmou (n=darmou@c220-237-49-140.dandn2.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 03:03.08 | SunZhiyong | As far as i know, now 3G network will be suit for Video phone, then a DC would be more important |
| 03:03.13 | linux_galore | kill your battery though because the D80 usb port will want to get power from the phone |
| 03:03.28 | *** join/#openmoko darmou (n=darmou@c220-237-49-140.dandn2.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 03:04.10 | summatusmentis | SunZhiyong: the neo doesn't have, and won't have(in GTA02) any 3G support |
| 03:04.56 | linux_galore | yeah no wifi,dc,3g |
| 03:05.43 | paulproteus | lol, linux_galore re: "world's first 10MP camera phone" |
| 03:06.09 | linux_galore | bet someone will velcro a computer unit to a 01 just for fun |
| 03:06.16 | *** join/#openmoko ravan (n=ravan@202.140.50.194) |
| 03:06.41 | SunZhiyong | o, so sorry to hear that, but i hope some further version would support them, dc, 3g... |
| 03:06.59 | linux_galore | SunZhiyong: 3g on the 02 |
| 03:07.11 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: no... wifi on the 02 |
| 03:07.19 | summatusmentis | unless I missed something drastic |
| 03:07.50 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: yeah but by next year there wont be any 2.5 networks running |
| 03:07.52 | ar1 | see you to morrow |
| 03:07.56 | ar1 | :) |
| 03:08.19 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: you really think it'll take until next year? |
| 03:08.24 | aloril | humm... why I haven't received mails? |
| 03:08.42 | summatusmentis | they're not adding terribly much, I'm assuming there won't be any more hardware issues |
| 03:08.55 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: I live in Australia and we have updated to 3G already and were totally retarded when it comes to that type of stuff |
| 03:08.59 | SunZhiyong | what 2.5g means? |
| 03:09.28 | summatusmentis | SunZhiyong: EDGE, I think |
| 03:09.47 | summatusmentis | or for CDMA 1x |
| 03:10.05 | linux_galore | cdma 1x |
| 03:10.16 | linux_galore | we have turned it off here |
| 03:10.33 | linux_galore | so everyone with an old cdma phone now has a brick |
| 03:10.39 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: there are still parts of the US where that's the only option availabel |
| 03:10.42 | summatusmentis | available* |
| 03:10.47 | ravan | how long ago was the announcement made? |
| 03:11.13 | summatusmentis | ravan: not terribly long |
| 03:11.20 | summatusmentis | ravan: couple hours? |
| 03:11.29 | ravan | summatusmentis: i still didn't get the mail |
| 03:11.38 | linux_galore | its on the wiki |
| 03:11.58 | SunZhiyong | such as w-cdma, that right? |
| 03:11.59 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 03:12.02 | ravan | i found it in the archives |
| 03:12.03 | summatusmentis | I've been watching the archives of the mail(on openmoko.org) |
| 03:12.14 | summatusmentis | SunZhiyong: w-cdma is 3G, afaik |
| 03:12.25 | aloril | maybe there it takes a while before queue clears or there is graylisting or ... |
| 03:13.22 | SunZhiyong | i am sorry, i am layman in mobile phone communication. |
| 03:13.28 | linux_galore | well next year they start installing wimax here in Australia for rural internet access |
| 03:13.52 | linux_galore | $3 billion dollar contract |
| 03:14.03 | paulproteus | linux_galore, Out of curiosity, who is "they", Telus, BigPond, some other actually nice people, etc.? |
| 03:14.25 | linux_galore | paulproteus: its a conglomerate Optus and a few others |
| 03:15.02 | linux_galore | paulproteus: Telstra lost out |
| 03:15.12 | linux_galore | although I dare say they will have a hand in it |
| 03:16.10 | aloril | kind of funny that I did awake at the time mail happened without any alarm or knowledge about it (and continued to sleep after quick look) |
| 03:16.11 | linux_galore | Optus already have a complete nation wide fibre network |
| 03:16.42 | summatusmentis | ugh, I need to get out of the US, get some culture, and faster intarwebz |
| 03:17.04 | aloril | counter_msg counter not updated yet |
| 03:17.04 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to counter not updated yet |
| 03:17.43 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: when Australia was found to be one position before the US for network access our government panicked lol |
| 03:17.59 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: if that doesnt say something |
| 03:18.06 | linux_galore | etc |
| 03:18.16 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: before? as in better than? |
| 03:18.20 | linux_galore | yes |
| 03:18.38 | linux_galore | in the list we are just before the USA |
| 03:18.43 | aloril | it wasn't that much of (P1 counter) ;-) |
| 03:18.59 | aloril | (2 days) |
| 03:19.01 | linux_galore | anyway Im off |
| 03:19.46 | ravan | 08:45 < linux_galore> paulproteus: Telstra lost out |
| 03:21.05 | linux_galore | technically Telstra never loses out because 95% of POTS are on their network |
| 03:21.36 | linux_galore | but in this case it broadband |
| 03:21.43 | linux_galore | it is* |
| 03:21.58 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.102.87) |
| 03:23.30 | linux_galore | http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,21935040-5013041,00.html |
| 03:23.56 | linux_galore | http://www.newsit.com.au/story/0,24897,21935875-5013041,00.html |
| 03:24.08 | linux_galore | the consortium is called OPEL |
| 03:24.59 | linux_galore | anyway I have to get back to the factory |
| 03:28.10 | *** part/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@207.81.133.5) |
| 03:28.25 | *** part/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 03:36.52 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> New Oceans |
| 03:37.09 | rd_ | :) |
| 03:37.11 | aloril | so there is $50 discount for both Neo1973 and hackers lunchbox |
| 03:37.12 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 03:37.13 | daMaestro | counter? |
| 03:37.13 | aloril | "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: counter not updated yet 06:41:23 (0.279±0.3 days) (1628;241) |
| 03:37.15 | rd_ | yeah |
| 03:37.18 | rd_ | 50$ |
| 03:37.19 | aloril | now mail got trough ;-) |
| 03:37.31 | rd_ | i have just read that email as well |
| 03:37.39 | aloril | rd_: hackers lunchbox was supposedly $200, now its $150 more |
| 03:37.59 | aloril | so.. combination is now $100 less, I think I'll go for combination now |
| 03:41.22 | aloril | announce mail still not trough here ;-) |
| 03:45.56 | aloril | hmmm... pondering about this "GTA02 (AKA: The Mass Market Neo 1973) is on schedule to go on sale in October. It will have the following new hardware components:" |
| 03:46.23 | aloril | are they going to mass market that or is that still same hardware as mass market, but marketed only for developers? |
| 03:46.52 | aloril | (script) openmoko-announce: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> [openmoko-announce] New Oceans |
| 03:46.52 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> New Oceans |
| 03:47.10 | aloril | going to keep massmarket separate ... |
| 03:47.11 | rwhitby | am I reading it wrong, or is there no rebate on GTA02 for people who buy GTA01, just a discount on the GTA01 purchase of $50. |
| 03:47.15 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@ppp121-44-217-101.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net) |
| 03:47.16 | rwhitby | aloril: where in the world physically are you? |
| 03:47.28 | aloril | Finland |
| 03:48.28 | aloril | rwhitby: yes, it sounds like that |
| 03:49.02 | *** join/#openmoko nm (n=hongtd@222.252.88.203) |
| 03:49.17 | aloril | took 3h for announce mail to arrive here |
| 03:49.42 | rwhitby | I got one at 7am local time and another copy at 10am local time (GMT+9:30) |
| 03:49.52 | rwhitby | actually 10:50am |
| 03:50.01 | *** join/#openmoko cninja (n=cninja@n218103243026.netvigator.com) |
| 03:50.05 | rwhitby | almost 4 hours lag on the second copy |
| 03:50.17 | aloril | got both quite close to each other (10minute difference) |
| 03:50.22 | *** join/#openmoko _schurig (n=schurig@pD95F8F37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:50.37 | *** join/#openmoko pbx (n=pbx@pool-72-79-214-165.spfdma.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:50.40 | aloril | but their date is about 4h apart |
| 03:50.56 | pbx | Is there going to be an Openmoko presence at OSCON? |
| 03:50.56 | aloril | pbx: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 03:51.05 | pbx | Clever. |
| 03:52.05 | summatusmentis | rwhitby: that is correct |
| 03:52.06 | aloril | rwhitby: I think sean mailed it twice |
| 03:52.13 | roh | rwhitby there seemed to be a smtpd-fuckup which resulted in mails queueing up somehow... hopefully fixed now |
| 03:53.14 | roh | yes. sean didnt recieve his own mail for the same error and tried again |
| 03:53.18 | aloril | Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 05:31:42 +0800 (00:31 EEST) |
| 03:53.20 | aloril | Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:20:13 +0800 (04:20 EEST) |
| 03:53.34 | pbx | So... any human response? OSCON, Portland OR USA, July 23-27? :) |
| 03:54.12 | pjz | rwhitby: how old are you? |
| 03:54.21 | pjz | nevermind, I don't want to know |
| 03:54.21 | rwhitby | 39 |
| 03:54.25 | pjz | oh, really? |
| 03:54.33 | pjz | and never heard of lincoln logs? hrm |
| 03:54.38 | rwhitby | don't live in the US |
| 03:54.42 | pjz | oh |
| 03:54.47 | pjz | makes sense then, I guess |
| 03:54.57 | rwhitby | No Lincoln Logs down under ... |
| 03:54.57 | pjz | less of a log-cabin tradition elsewhere :) |
| 03:55.00 | rd_ | i've never heard of lincoln log too |
| 03:55.04 | rd_ | :D |
| 03:55.09 | aloril | roh: is that October release marketed for "Mom and Dad" or is it marketed for developers? |
| 03:55.50 | pjz | so the current plan is to save my pennies and get a GTA02 Advanced |
| 03:56.07 | paulproteus | Grand Theft Audiovox |
| 03:56.12 | aloril | (script) openmoko-announce: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> [openmoko-announce] New Oceans |
| 03:56.36 | aloril | twice in announce list too it seems ;-) |
| 03:56.50 | pjz | cuz, after all, I've waited 6 months, another 4 is no big deal |
| 03:57.08 | paulproteus | pjz, FWIW I don't feel that way. (-: |
| 03:57.31 | aloril | roh: or should I ask at mailing list about that (October release for developers or "Mom and Dad")? or maybe its too early .. |
| 03:57.55 | rd_ | pjz, the question is that you can get GTA02 in Oct or GTA02 will get delayed :) |
| 03:58.37 | aloril | well, at least we know it won't be earlier than October (except maybe for betatest) |
| 03:58.55 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-144-137-208-23.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 03:59.02 | pjz | plus, nothing to say that the July date won't get slipped too |
| 03:59.57 | *** join/#openmoko juri_ (i=[tNAh+GD@volumehost.com) |
| 04:00.06 | paulproteus | "If it were easy, you know who would have done this long before." - is that supposed to refer to MSFT? |
| 04:00.07 | juri_ | yay! life on the mailing list! |
| 04:00.11 | pjz | but mostly: I can't justify $500 and then $450 4 months later |
| 04:00.12 | aloril | pjz: yeah, though they only need to get "ordering" in order |
| 04:00.49 | pjz | aloril: until they find the next hardware bug. or have another parts shortage. |
| 04:00.58 | aloril | paulproteus: or maybe he is referring to himself or ... in mobile world it would mean Nokia I think |
| 04:01.00 | juri_ | as soon as they can order, i'll buy three. :P |
| 04:01.10 | pjz | aloril: or find that they can't ship international for some reason. |
| 04:01.19 | juri_ | aloril: i would think refering to motorola. but then again, i used to work for them. |
| 04:01.20 | pjz | aloril: or just not to the US. |
| 04:01.24 | paulproteus | lol, juri_, why three? |
| 04:01.51 | aloril | pjz: parts shortage should not be problem, they already have 400 made ;-) |
| 04:01.53 | juri_ | paul: stable, unstable, and broken. i'm setting up as a value added reseller. ;) |
| 04:01.58 | *** part/#openmoko pbx (n=pbx@pool-72-79-214-165.spfdma.east.verizon.net) |
| 04:02.38 | aloril | reason I think Nokia is that they already have partially FLOSS project (just not phone) |
| 04:02.52 | paulproteus | aloril, Right, that makes some sense. |
| 04:02.57 | juri_ | if i have my way, i'll be ordering in the hundred lot by year's end. |
| 04:03.07 | paulproteus | So anyone want my 512MB microSD cards? (-; |
| 04:03.29 | paulproteus | I'm thinking since you can buy 2GiB cards for under USD20, no point in keeping those smaller ones.... |
| 04:03.35 | pjz | oh, the N770 was on woot for $180 or something the other day |
| 04:04.29 | jeddy3 | pjz, from where do you get $500 for gta01b_v4? |
| 04:04.41 | pjz | jeddy3: Advanced kit |
| 04:04.51 | paulproteus | The Neo Advanced will be |
| 04:04.51 | paulproteus | $450. |
| 04:05.10 | aloril | hmm? "P.S. It seems that in all this restructuring, someone has been eavesdropping on us. It could be a spy. Or it could be a ninja. Only time will tell. So stay tuned ;-)" |
| 04:05.27 | paulproteus | aloril, Seriously, I haven no idea what the heck that means. |
| 04:05.34 | jeddy3 | yeah $450 |
| 04:06.03 | aloril | its still $100 less than equivalent thing was originally ($350 + $200) |
| 04:06.07 | roh | aloril i cannot definitively answer that question... that will depend on your mom and dad propably. but yes, it should be a massmarket-device with a working userinterface. at least thats the goal |
| 04:06.35 | pjz | and we know how good we are at reaching goals on time |
| 04:07.11 | pjz | so I'm looking forward to it |
| 04:07.18 | aloril | roh: ah, so plan is to sell trough carriers at that time: "through multiple channels" |
| 04:07.56 | pjz | just in time to enter the iPhone Wars fray |
| 04:08.12 | aloril | roh: though I guess you can't say that yet explicitly ;-) |
| 04:08.33 | pjz | b/c everyone and their brother is going to do an iPhone clone, I'm sure |
| 04:08.50 | pjz | expect to see multiple touchscreen-only phones coming out |
| 04:09.06 | paulproteus | aloril, Me neither; we'll see... |
| 04:09.23 | pjz | Maybe the moonlight guys will step up |
| 04:09.41 | pjz | though running .NET on my phone kinda scares me |
| 04:10.08 | paulproteus | pjz, ? |
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| 04:10.42 | pjz | paulproteus: did you miss the thread that's the mono guys who rewrote microsoft's Silverlight thing saying they're interested in the Neo platform? |
| 04:10.53 | paulproteus | pjz, Erm, I guess I did. |
| 04:11.00 | paulproteus | I hope the MSFT contribute to mono, then.' |
| 04:11.26 | pjz | paulproteus: Subject: An introduction |
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| 04:11.51 | pjz | or maybe the JavaFX guys will step up |
| 04:12.02 | pjz | since they demo'd it |
| 04:13.04 | pjz | actually .NET wouldn't be too bad; means apps in lots of languages could all share a VM |
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| 04:16.08 | pjz | so Sean seems to only get part of this opensource thing |
| 04:16.25 | pjz | he gets the part about the stuff |
| 04:16.46 | pjz | but seems to not get some of the parts that are about the people |
| 04:17.25 | pjz | like: if you want them to follow, you must lead. And to lead, you must speak. So if you want them to follow, you must speak. |
| 04:17.37 | pjz | did anyone catch when he said his next update would be? |
| 04:18.11 | pjz | 'I will update you |
| 04:18.13 | pjz | all after we stabilize GTA02.' |
| 04:18.43 | pjz | in other words... 'More pronouncements from On High in 4 months' |
| 04:22.45 | aloril | pjz: umm.. they don't know yet what will be in those devices? |
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| 04:23.52 | aloril | (script) planet: Harald "LaF0rge" Welte: An update from the OpenMoko world http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/06/28#20070628-openmoko_update |
| 04:26.41 | pjz | aloril: I thought they had the hardware finalized? no? |
| 04:27.18 | aloril | pjz: for devices next year: doubt they yet know it for sure ;-) |
| 04:27.37 | aloril | pjz: no doubt they are developing, testing though |
| 04:27.58 | aloril | or it could be that they are negotiating for some parts still |
| 04:31.59 | pjz | GTA02 is due out in October |
| 04:32.05 | pjz | not next year |
| 04:33.02 | aloril | pjz: ah, but that was told already ;-) |
| 04:33.47 | aloril | read again: "We have three more mobile devices planned for next year (not including GTA02). During the next few months we will be adding serious resources to both FIC and OpenMoko to support these projects. I will update you all after we stabilize GTA02." |
| 04:34.21 | aloril | its about future projects next year *"(not including GTA02)"* |
| 04:37.09 | pjz | sure |
| 04:37.58 | pjz | my point was just that he plans to ignore this community he helped create for, oh, at least another 3-4 months |
| 04:38.24 | pjz | well, 'until GTA02 is stabilize', however long that takes |
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| 04:39.07 | cjb | it's a real shame that v1 won't be out before iPhone; they'll lose a whole bunch of v1 sales. |
| 04:39.13 | pjz | yup |
| 04:39.18 | pjz | they win on pricepoint though |
| 04:39.29 | pjz | though they lose on features |
| 04:39.35 | pjz | lack of wifi is a huuuge feature disadvantage |
| 04:39.43 | pjz | which is probably why they're pushing on GTA02 so hard |
| 04:39.45 | cjb | yeah, that's what I hear from everyone I mention moko to. |
| 04:43.02 | pjz | there's going to be some interesting networking challenges inherent in this phone |
| 04:43.23 | aloril | pjz: didn't read it that way, for example: "Sometime later today or early tomorrow we're going to make another announcement asking for some advice." |
| 04:43.33 | pjz | just simple stuff like where your default route is is going to be interesting |
| 04:43.47 | pjz | aloril: oh, I see. |
| 04:43.50 | aloril | pjz: I think that referred specifically on new devices |
| 04:44.37 | ravan | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:44.37 | ravan | O |
| 04:47.23 | pjz | aloril: I dunno. Saying "we're talking to soemone about part X" seems okay |
| 04:47.40 | pjz | aloril: caveat it all you want; some info is better than no info. |
| 04:47.58 | aloril | other company might not like it .. |
| 04:48.17 | pjz | aloril: so don't name names |
| 04:48.26 | aloril | now saying "we are testing this component" doesn't sound problematic from that viewpoint |
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| 04:48.50 | aloril | pjz: well, just saying what part might name a company ;-) |
| 04:49.24 | duffyd | LaF0rge: I just read your blog entry on planet.openmoko - and yes I *feel* your pain as I'm currently living in Taiwan also |
| 04:49.28 | pjz | aloril: or even 'we've got 80% of the components, another 10% due in in a week, and the last 10% after that" |
| 04:49.56 | duffyd | it's a culture shock for westerners to put it mildly ;-) |
| 04:50.15 | pjz | kind of makes me wonder why they didn't set up offices in .de then |
| 04:50.58 | duffyd | LaF0rge: funny thing is, I came direct from Japan to here and that *heightened* the culture shock ;-) |
| 04:51.16 | duffyd | as you know, to call Japan efficient is an understatement ;-) |
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| 04:54.51 | happycube | it's definitely nice to see such support for openmoko in fic, though |
| 04:56.55 | happycube | weird that taiwan has fewer offerings than abroad though! |
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| 04:57.05 | happycube | (maybe it has to do with china->taiwan importing?) |
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| 04:59.42 | Psi_ | just read the announcement :) |
| 05:00.02 | Psi_ | that's some seriously cool stuff happening :D |
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| 05:01.49 | happycube | psi - indeed! |
| 05:01.59 | Rince | morning all ;) |
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| 05:16.23 | carrar | w00t! |
| 05:16.57 | carrar | man that phone is gonna be just as expensive as the iPhone |
| 05:17.15 | happycube | does almost as much and you're not stuck with at&t for 2 years ;) |
| 05:17.40 | carrar | in this area AT&T has the best and fastest coverage |
| 05:17.46 | carrar | so no problem with that |
| 05:18.09 | carrar | HSPDA all over here |
| 05:18.50 | guaqua | "no problem with that" |
| 05:19.17 | carrar | for got one word |
| 05:19.19 | guaqua | then you probably don't have a problem with sticking to proprietary crap, either |
| 05:20.36 | carrar | not wise to assume |
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| 05:41.36 | Stephmw | mornin' |
| 05:41.59 | Sup3rkiddo | morining |
| 05:42.05 | Sup3rkiddo | counter |
| 05:42.10 | happycube | announcment's out! |
| 05:42.11 | Sup3rkiddo | :D |
| 05:42.28 | Sup3rkiddo | happycube: yeah i know, just checking what aloril has to say |
| 05:42.40 | happycube | ;) |
| 05:42.44 | happycube | !counter |
| 05:42.51 | happycube | speechless, aparently |
| 05:42.55 | aloril | hmm... |
| 05:42.57 | gamin | Sup3rkiddo: aloril "buffer overflow" :D |
| 05:43.10 | Sup3rkiddo | gamin: :P |
| 05:43.14 | aloril | counter not updated yet 05:38:31 (0.235±0.2 days) (1628;241) |
| 05:43.16 | gamin | or null pointer exception... |
| 05:43.24 | gamin | *g* |
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| 05:43.44 | aloril | ah, you had extra space ;-) |
| 05:43.53 | gamin | well, 300$ is nice, 450$ for the GTA2 is too much |
| 05:43.55 | Sup3rkiddo | anyway will there be a discount if i buy the neo now, during the october release |
| 05:43.59 | aloril | counter |
| 05:44.11 | gamin | Sup3rkiddo: they reduced to 300$ |
| 05:44.30 | gamin | RTFA :) |
| 05:44.47 | Sup3rkiddo | gamin: oo...its there in the announcement ? |
| 05:45.16 | gamin | The delays have been expensive for us and annoying for you. We've decided that instead of setting up a complicated return or tracking system to remember who gets a discount for GTA02, we going to give you _all_ a discount on GTA01. We're going to sell the Neo Base for $300. The Neo Advanced will be $450. |
| 05:45.47 | Sup3rkiddo | gamin: i believe its for the developer release now? |
| 05:45.48 | gamin | Sup3rkiddo: with all the many words I missed that too on the first read... |
| 05:46.05 | gamin | yep |
| 05:46.54 | gamin | plus impertinent 70$ for the car holder. |
| 05:47.04 | Sup3rkiddo | i meant if i buy a GTA01, how much discount will i get for the final release? |
| 05:47.05 | gamin | I'll get one from ebay for 10$ |
| 05:47.36 | Sup3rkiddo | now its "begging for allowance hike" period of the year |
| 05:47.43 | gamin | Sup3rkiddo: no discount for the final release, because they dropped the price from 350 to 300 for everybody |
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| 05:48.17 | Sup3rkiddo | gamin: ah ok..i didnt see the 50$ difference |
| 05:48.43 | gamin | Sup3rkiddo: you are really a lazy reader ;P |
| 05:48.45 | aloril | counter_msg (last update 2007-06-28T05:42) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in |
| 05:48.45 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (last update 2007-06-28T05:42) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in |
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| 05:48.47 | aloril | counter |
| 05:48.47 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T05:42) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 4 days 06:11:12 (11.258±1.0 days) (1631;241) |
| 05:49.12 | Sup3rkiddo | gamin: :P yup |
| 05:49.48 | Sup3rkiddo | ok now what was the trick to convert currencies again? |
| 05:51.45 | wiml | sup3r: google will do it |
| 05:51.59 | aloril | giving total 80% for that week, dunno if that is too high, but .. |
| 05:52.11 | wiml | type "300 dollars in rubles" or whatever |
| 05:52.14 | aloril | any comments on probabilities in counter page? |
| 05:52.15 | Rince | do I see it right that you reduced from 1GB flash as planned to 256MB? |
| 05:52.39 | Rince | (in the gta02) |
| 05:52.56 | gamin | nobody planned 1GB flash |
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| 05:53.27 | Rince | how much do you have in gta01? 64MB? |
| 05:53.44 | gamin | 128 |
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| 05:54.04 | Psi_ | hmm. i got two oceans announce emails |
| 05:54.07 | gamin | but I wonder what that crap of 2x 512 SD cards is good for |
| 05:54.08 | Rince | (background: I had a p990i from SE and it was a PITA since it wasn't able to have the web browser and my addressbook online in the same time...) |
| 05:54.43 | gamin | nobody wants to fiddle around with these things. |
| 05:55.31 | Rince | gamin: at least not as long as I have to remove the SIM-Card to reach the slot as I have seen it once... |
| 05:56.05 | Rince | if I'd want another card, I'd buy it myself since it would have more memory on it |
| 05:56.29 | aloril | haha, GPL3 launch date same as iPhone launch date |
| 05:56.50 | rwhitby | Rince: the GTA02 flash was specced as 1GBit (which is 256MBytes) |
| 05:57.15 | rwhitby | (flash chips are specced in bits, not bytes) |
| 05:57.24 | Rince | rwhitby: oh, sorry then, that was my mistake |
| 05:57.25 | Rince | thanks ;) |
| 05:57.49 | rwhitby | it was a common mistake for anyone who hasn't dealt with flash hardware chip specs before :-) |
| 05:58.04 | Rince | Hmm, isn't it 1Gbi == 128Mbytes? Divided by eight? |
| 05:58.38 | rwhitby | pjz: "he plans to ignore this community he helped create for, oh, at least another 3-4 months" is a bit harsh |
| 05:58.53 | wiml | GPLv3 vs. iPhone! They Must Fight! |
| 05:59.01 | aloril | rwhitby: he misread announcement |
| 05:59.13 | aloril | rwhitby: see following discussion |
| 06:00.07 | rwhitby | I think people too easily ascribe something to bad intentions which can just as easily be explained by not enough hours in the day. |
| 06:00.44 | Rince | *nod* |
| 06:00.50 | happycube | between that and the blog they basically have a choice between outreach and cutting the red tape they need to get the things out |
| 06:01.42 | rwhitby | the fact that you see blogs and svn checkins says volumes more than what you get from any other company about a new device |
| 06:01.53 | gamin | what is the customs pay up for mobile phone in the EU? |
| 06:02.13 | Rince | gamin: with support for a new contract: everything between 0 ¤ and 150¤ |
| 06:02.14 | happycube | yup |
| 06:02.33 | Rince | without support: between 200 and 350-400¤, depending on what you want |
| 06:02.42 | happycube | we had a decent idea of gta02 before any announcement ;) |
| 06:03.18 | Rince | you pay 800¤ für the latest N95 from Nokia |
| 06:03.42 | happycube | even the simple nokia 6103 is $199 direct |
| 06:03.51 | rwhitby | I'd trust an SVN checking more than an email announcement of specs any day :-) |
| 06:03.54 | happycube | :) |
| 06:03.57 | Rince | for the "quite common" nokia E70 you pay 500¤ |
| 06:03.58 | rwhitby | s/checking/checkin/ |
| 06:04.07 | happycube | especially since they matched |
| 06:04.58 | Rince | gamin: if you want a good overview: www.momp.de is a quite cheap but good online-store. you check all mobiles with or without carrier-support and can diff the prices |
| 06:05.43 | Rince | http://www.momp.de/handypreise_ohne.php (full price) vs. http://www.momp.de/handypreise_mit.php (reduced price - depending on the agreement with the carrier) |
| 06:06.45 | aloril | Psi_: 2 announce mails was sent, there was some hiccup |
| 06:07.19 | Stephmw | Rince: another datapoint, prototypes normally cost 2x the cost of a consumer device (due to the small production scales), so that OpenMoko are selling them for so little is a *massive* discount compared to other manufacturers |
| 06:07.46 | Stephmw | Rince: of course, that 2x is in the closed-device world ;) |
| 06:07.46 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[UI_Improvements]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
| 06:07.51 | Rince | Stephmw: I know that ;) gamin just asked for prices |
| 06:08.00 | Stephmw | Rince: just giving ya more ammo :) |
| 06:08.06 | aloril | eventually counter is right, this time about announcement (lets hope its right about P1 too) |
| 06:08.45 | Rince | I am still thinking about buyting a gta01_v04 and waiting for the umts models then. Or so ;) |
| 06:09.19 | aloril | anyway, yet another datapoint that its better to add 1 day to estimated news date ;-) |
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| 06:10.46 | rwhitby | ~hail counter |
| 06:10.47 | apt | ACTION bows down to counter and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 06:12.07 | Kero | what a timing; I'm away July 4-8 :D |
| 06:12.22 | Rince | (but that's just becuase right now I have an very old blackberry since my p990i got lost somehow and I have no other mobile right now) |
| 06:13.23 | gamin | so for the EU customs tariff rate is free (if declared mobile phone) or 3.5% (if declared GPS) plus 19% VAT plus shipping |
| 06:14.00 | aloril | P1 range was 2 days short though ;-) |
| 06:14.23 | *** join/#openmoko gcb77 (n=gbarta@c-24-16-154-132.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 06:14.45 | Stephmw | aloril: also time to change the counter's TimeZone to Samoa |
| 06:14.53 | Stephmw | aloril: it's still 7pm there :) |
| 06:14.55 | gamin | so probably in the EU it will be avail for ~300EUR with VAT, customs and shipping... |
| 06:15.03 | Stephmw | gamin: right |
| 06:15.13 | Rince | gamin: sounds reasonable, yes |
| 06:15.25 | aloril | Stephmw: it is even further than that: UTC-12 ;-) |
| 06:15.52 | aloril | thus its +-1 day to cover whole earth for 2007-07-09, not +-0.5 |
| 06:16.15 | Stephmw | if I'm gonna be spending that much on tax, I might as well collect it in person from the EU distribution offices - and get a nice daytrip out of it |
| 06:16.34 | Stephmw | aloril: hmmm, ahhh, I was looking at GMT times |
| 06:16.43 | Stephmw | aloril: and comparing to my non-GMT summertime |
| 06:18.00 | gamin | price: 300$ = 223 EUR; 42.50 EUR VAT; 6.70 EUR customs tariff; shipping 20EUR maybe? |
| 06:20.38 | *** join/#openmoko gcb77 (n=gbarta@c-24-16-154-132.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 06:22.36 | aloril | counter is calculating until 2007-07-09T12:00 UCT (GMT) +- 1 day |
| 06:23.06 | aloril | which should cover whole earth for 2007-07-09 |
| 06:23.56 | *** join/#openmoko Hokky (n=hokky@195.1.22.156) |
| 06:25.38 | gamin | 450EUR (with VAT etc) for the final GTA02 - who will ever buy that, apart from geeks? you can get a laptop for that. |
| 06:26.07 | gamin | just because nokia sells its N800 and apple its iPhone in that price-range... |
| 06:26.10 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning1 (n=blueligh@222-155-210-49.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 06:26.28 | sbeh | i think, that's not you problem |
| 06:26.31 | sbeh | +r |
| 06:29.37 | aloril | Nokia N95 is around 700 € or so and E90 communicator is around 800 € |
| 06:29.52 | adhoc_ | aloril: US$ ? |
| 06:29.57 | aloril | EUR |
| 06:30.04 | aloril | (in Finland) |
| 06:30.45 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 06:33.42 | rwhitby | aloril: don't forget the chatham islands which are GMT+12:45 (and GMT+13:45 during DST) |
| 06:34.23 | xkr47 | counter |
| 06:34.24 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T05:42) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 4 days 05:25:35 (11.226±1.0 days) (1632;241) |
| 06:35.22 | xkr47 | wee |
| 06:35.50 | aloril | rwhitby: ah, yeah, actually even earlier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC%2B14 |
| 06:35.51 | *** join/#openmoko f3ew (n=F3ew@203.199.114.33) |
| 06:36.15 | aloril | well.. I'll just ignore those 2 hours, doubt it will be available that early ;-) |
| 06:36.58 | aloril | xkr47: and counter will move now full speed for 10 days ;-) |
| 06:37.15 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@77-57-23-11.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:37.32 | xkr47 | :) |
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| 06:43.34 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@130.60.39.67) |
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| 06:45.39 | _buz | counter |
| 06:45.40 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T05:42) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 4 days 05:14:20 (11.218±1.0 days) (1633;241) |
| 06:49.12 | baird | I was expecting something like that, though-- it's /always/ happened with computer hardware projects... |
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| 06:54.30 | rwhitby | aloril: yeah, I use chatham islands as the example cause then people are normally freaked out by both the offset being > 12, but also the :45 timezone (which is even weirder than my :30 timezone) |
| 06:54.50 | aloril | hehe |
| 06:57.22 | *** part/#openmoko AlexZhan1 (n=alexzhan@58.61.45.63) |
| 06:58.15 | aloril | guess: 3G or something like that, also guess is that negotiations are going on |
| 07:00.07 | happycube | it sounds like post-gta02 will have a new case design with different UI |
| 07:00.19 | aloril | happycube: yeah |
| 07:01.23 | so_solid_moo | any details on upgrades for people who plump for the gta01? |
| 07:01.24 | _buz | he could have give some info for hxd8 at least |
| 07:01.25 | aloril | GTA03 is obviously 'next' version, but I wonder how GTX01 and GTX02 differ, I guess at least one of those is parallel model with for example keyboard and/or camera |
| 07:01.42 | _buz | so_solid_moo: gta01 is 300$ now, gta02 is 450$ |
| 07:01.45 | _buz | no discounts |
| 07:01.55 | so_solid_moo | ok |
| 07:02.05 | aloril | so_solid_moo: 50$ discount for GTA01B_v4 itself |
| 07:02.42 | so_solid_moo | yeah, I just didn't want to hold out for the gta02, but if it's coming with an accelerator and stuff.. that's a tough choice. |
| 07:03.02 | aloril | so_solid_moo: there could be 100% discount for selected developers (for betatesting), nothing official though, just rumors |
| 07:03.20 | aloril | (maybe those who got P0/P1 for free?) |
| 07:04.10 | aloril | so_solid_moo: well.. GTA01B_v04: 150$ cheaper and at least 3 months earlier, but then has less hardware |
| 07:04.38 | aloril | so_solid_moo: you could get discount by yourself: sell GTA01B_v04 ;-) |
| 07:04.57 | so_solid_moo | hehe |
| 07:05.10 | so_solid_moo | the only thing that worries me is whether gta01 will be able to keep up with openmoko |
| 07:05.11 | xkr47 | Sean is a real storyteller :-) |
| 07:05.29 | jonkristian | After the gta01/02 and up until public release, will the hardware differ? |
| 07:05.29 | aloril | jonkristian: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 07:06.09 | baird | It's a problem for them in trying to avoid 'an Osborne Maneuver' |
| 07:06.26 | aloril | jonkristian: GTA02 is supposedly public release |
| 07:06.57 | aloril | well.. I guess there will be revisions, like GTA02_v02 or GTA02_v03, but what is sold should be final GTA02 |
| 07:07.07 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:07.09 | jonkristian | aloril: Oh, ok, thank you |
| 07:07.12 | *** join/#openmoko ravan_ (n=ravan@202.140.50.194) |
| 07:07.38 | so_solid_moo | neo is still a good deal at $450, imho |
| 07:08.34 | aloril | GPU + WiFi + Accelerators (+ more Flash) == $100 it seems ($300 for GTA01B_v04 is $50 discounted ;-) |
| 07:09.12 | _buz | for 450$ it should have a cam and sane case |
| 07:10.12 | *** join/#openmoko xl0_ (i=user@80.253.205.252) |
| 07:10.15 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 07:10.22 | aloril | $450 is close to iPhone ...but then its features are close too ;-) |
| 07:10.37 | _buz | maybe it can even do copy paste lol |
| 07:11.34 | wiml | if there's a decent developer community & software support, then I think $450 is still worth the money |
| 07:11.36 | *** join/#openmoko GaKKGaKk (n=Viko@ti121210a080-2157.bb.online.no) |
| 07:11.48 | wiml | $300 was better but oh well. |
| 07:13.00 | jonkristian | aloril: This will be in October right? Sorry, I was thinking about the October releaseGTA02 compared to GTA01B_v4 which is to be released in may 9th |
| 07:13.18 | xkr47 | they don't mention the battery in the GTA02 as previously suggested.. is that a mistake ? |
| 07:13.22 | aloril | jonkristian: yes |
| 07:13.26 | xkr47 | s/they/sean/ |
| 07:13.54 | ynezz | counter |
| 07:13.54 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T05:42) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 4 days 04:46:05 (11.199±1.0 days) (1634;241) |
| 07:14.03 | roh | aloril 450$ is not near the iphone since that you can only buy with contract which subsidarys the hardware (up to 250$) |
| 07:14.16 | *** part/#openmoko adhoc_away (n=adhoc@spook.its.adelaide.edu.au) |
| 07:14.25 | aloril | roh: yeah, true indeed, iPhone is about $2000 ;-) |
| 07:14.36 | Rince | wiml: it is defintively a very good price along wiht all that debugging-stuff |
| 07:14.39 | jonkristian | aloril: thanks |
| 07:14.55 | roh | aloril: so it could be about 750$ |
| 07:15.02 | so_solid_moo | Rince: the debugging stuff is extra on both gta's |
| 07:15.24 | Rince | I know |
| 07:15.25 | aloril | jonkristian: see [[Neo1973]] page linked from FAQ (link given earlier) and announce mail linked from Neo1973 page |
| 07:15.50 | jonkristian | aloril: yes, thank you:) |
| 07:15.58 | aloril | roh: yeah, we will see when they announce Europe version, in Finland at least its illegal to Bundle only deals |
| 07:16.06 | roh | so_solid_moo yes. we seperated that since a lot developers will not need it. the most people do not develop on the kernel and low-level drivers or bootloaders |
| 07:16.20 | aloril | actually, its not 3G, all bundling is illegal in Finland for iPhone ;-) |
| 07:16.27 | roh | aloril: hrhr.. patience my padawan |
| 07:16.57 | roh | aloril: i expect them to delay european sales till they have a variant with 3g. edge is mostly useless in europe afaik |
| 07:17.13 | so_solid_moo | roh: I think that's a smart move, btw |
| 07:17.14 | hrw | morning |
| 07:17.17 | aloril | roh: yeah, that makes sense |
| 07:17.29 | roh | morning hrw |
| 07:18.05 | aloril | hrw: looked at your mails yet? announce was made |
| 07:18.08 | roh | unknown_lamer: hunting down breakfast |
| 07:18.18 | hrw | aloril: I know |
| 07:18.30 | hrw | counter |
| 07:18.30 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T05:42) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 4 days 04:41:29 (11.195±1.0 days) (1635;241) |
| 07:19.00 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2F94C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:19.08 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 07:19.34 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@guest54.crihan.fr) |
| 07:22.52 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@222-155-221-22.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 07:23.14 | aloril | morning TRIsoft (seen news?) |
| 07:23.50 | TRIsoft | hi aloril. Sure. Interesting news. Let's hope they get it rolling soon... |
| 07:24.05 | hrw | aloril: post updated |
| 07:24.25 | *** part/#openmoko f3ew (n=F3ew@203.199.114.33) |
| 07:25.21 | *** join/#openmoko Savenger (n=savenger@i577A0D05.versanet.de) |
| 07:26.09 | aloril | hrw: umm.. what post updated? (other than "New Oceans") |
| 07:26.24 | so_solid_moo | planet? |
| 07:26.44 | hrw | aloril: my blog |
| 07:27.26 | aloril | hrw: ah, not yet at planet.openmoko.org |
| 07:27.52 | *** join/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 07:28.16 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-150-179.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 07:28.23 | ravan_ | now that samsung has come up with an 8GB micro SD card, is standard SD slot off the roadmap? |
| 07:28.45 | aloril | ah, yeah won't be visible there because its update I guess |
| 07:28.47 | aloril | http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/06/27/how-to-buy-neo1973-phone/ |
| 07:29.45 | aloril | (or maybe it will, will see soon I guess) |
| 07:29.59 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
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| 07:38.42 | *** part/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 07:38.44 | *** join/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 07:39.28 | *** join/#openmoko steleopard (n=steleopa@218.241.86.114) |
| 07:40.19 | SunZhiyong | hello steleopard |
| 07:40.51 | steleopard | hi |
| 07:41.12 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-020.eplus-online.de) |
| 07:43.04 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby-n800 (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 07:43.18 | *** join/#openmoko cheesy (n=daniel@pd95b5e66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:43.21 | SunZhiyong | Is there any who knows how to use the OE of our phone platform |
| 07:45.44 | steleopard | help me , who knows why the file OE.mtn.bz2 download from http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/ has error when bzip2 it |
| 07:46.10 | hrw | ~oe.mtn |
| 07:46.25 | apt | from memory, oe.mtn is snapshot of OpenEmbedded metadata available on http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/ as files for monotone <0.30 and for >=0.30 |
| 07:46.25 | steleopard | ye |
| 07:46.32 | mikesh | oh, cool, only $300, i love this company ;) |
| 07:46.50 | SunZhiyong | only?? |
| 07:47.06 | hrw | $ is cheap |
| 07:47.15 | hrw | ~change 1 usd to pln |
| 07:47.46 | SunZhiyong | I don't think so, not very cheap at least |
| 07:47.48 | so_solid_moo | $:£ is 2:1 atm :) |
| 07:47.53 | mikesh | it was $350, wasn't it? |
| 07:48.01 | SunZhiyong | $300 |
| 07:48.27 | hrw | mikesh: it was |
| 07:48.32 | aloril | yes, $50 reduction in price |
| 07:48.57 | mikesh | nice :) |
| 07:49.00 | Stephmw | SunZhiyong: compared to other prototype devices, it's cheap |
| 07:50.06 | *** join/#openmoko steleopard (n=steleopa@218.241.86.118) |
| 07:50.06 | xkr47 | 222.88 euro + some shipping.. neat |
| 07:50.20 | *** part/#openmoko steleopard (n=steleopa@218.241.86.118) |
| 07:50.40 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 07:50.59 | *** join/#openmoko steleopard (n=steleopa@218.241.86.118) |
| 07:51.17 | *** join/#openmoko BlackFog (n=office@lehrer.lehrer.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 07:51.26 | BlackFog | morning |
| 07:51.27 | xkr47 | so_solid_moo, quite cool |
| 07:51.52 | steleopard | when i use "make setup" for openmoko. it show that : |
| 07:51.53 | steleopard | bunzip2: Data integrity error when decompressing. |
| 07:51.54 | steleopard | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:51.54 | steleopard | It is possible that the compressed file(s) have become corrupted. |
| 07:51.54 | steleopard | You can use the -tvv option to test integrity of such files. |
| 07:51.54 | steleopard | You can use the `bzip2recover' program to attempt to recover |
| 07:51.55 | steleopard | data from undamaged sections of corrupted files. |
| 07:51.57 | steleopard | make: *** [OE.mtn] Error 2 |
| 07:52.18 | *** part/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 07:52.48 | *** join/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 07:52.49 | hrw | c5bb4fea93e1f441078d745338f5a763 OE.mtn.bz2 |
| 07:53.05 | hrw | aada7d433917cb73a592119b864dee3c OE.mtn |
| 07:53.05 | steleopard | it seems that the OE.mtn.bz2 from http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/OE-this-is-for-mtn-0.31.mtn.bz2 has some problem |
| 07:53.46 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 07:54.09 | SunZhiyong | some question about GPS, is it free, or you should pay for the map |
| 07:55.29 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-19-101.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 07:55.39 | steleopard | I try another one, 0.30,, 0.32, there are the same some problem as 0.31. |
| 07:55.58 | hrw | SunZhiyong: GPS is free. maps is other thing |
| 07:56.10 | xkr47 | SunZhiyong, it depends on the software.. gps just delivers coordinates, and that's free as in beer |
| 07:56.20 | cheesy | SunZhiyong: GPS is free. Maps are free or cost something. Depends on the map. |
| 07:56.59 | Stephmw | *sells |
| 07:57.23 | SunZhiyong | ;), great |
| 08:00.45 | aloril | updated wifi, camera messages |
| 08:01.21 | aloril | wifi? |
| 08:01.21 | aloril | GTA02 (P1+/P1.5) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 08:01.30 | aloril | camera? |
| 08:01.30 | aloril | There is no camera included. With (battery) powered USB hub, you should be able to attach to (almost) any external camera. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware for details on what is included. Also see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (also some model next year probably will gave camera module: http://www.channelweb.co.uk/vnunet/news/2192036/first-open-source-mobile-phone ) |
| 08:02.03 | hrw | usb? |
| 08:02.06 | SunZhiyong | camera module? |
| 08:02.08 | *** join/#openmoko LittleIdiot (n=lite@2001:4d50:100:1:0:0:2:12) |
| 08:02.14 | webjames | just read the announcement, very passionate. gta02 @ $450 more than i thought it would be |
| 08:02.46 | aloril | hrw: faq? command covers rest ;-) |
| 08:04.01 | aloril | SpeedEvil: actually what I see changed is that GTA02 is seemingly going to be marketed for mass market from start, not only for developers initially and later for mass market |
| 08:04.57 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 08:05.31 | webjames | aloril, yes i see what you mean |
| 08:05.43 | webjames | not too long to get the software up to scratch |
| 08:05.46 | LittleIdiot | I've noticed that there are several solder pads on the neo's board. is there one to access i2c? |
| 08:05.53 | aloril | SpeedEvil: that spy note being about blogging: I think that might be quite good guess (laforge, mickeyl) ;-) |
| 08:06.09 | aloril | webjames: probably money thing |
| 08:06.16 | koen | steleopard: check the md5sums as we said, or shut up |
| 08:06.35 | rwhitby | LittleIdiot: I2C is intentionally available on GTA01 |
| 08:06.44 | rwhitby | (on some of those solder pads) |
| 08:06.55 | LittleIdiot | great ;) |
| 08:07.00 | rwhitby | see the wiki for GTA01_Bv4 changes for details |
| 08:09.04 | aloril | steleopard: you need to at least delete that corrupted file |
| 08:09.42 | _buz | i'm not so sure if its a terribly smart move to rush the mass market release |
| 08:09.51 | _buz | you generally get one shot at that |
| 08:10.02 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ]] |
| 08:10.03 | _buz | which you dont want to waste with unfinished software |
| 08:10.46 | nox-Hand | Will have a harder time getting 450 dollars :( |
| 08:10.51 | so_solid_moo | _buz: sonyericsson get away with it :o> |
| 08:10.58 | nox-Hand | Was hoping for 350 for the final one |
| 08:11.14 | _buz | yeah i'm not terribly happy about the 450$ either |
| 08:11.24 | _buz | if that includes vat and shipping i can live with it |
| 08:11.28 | _buz | but if not.... |
| 08:11.47 | SunZhiyong | :( |
| 08:11.54 | nox-Hand | _buz: But then it's more than likely that if I order one they will put 50% import tax ON TOP of it |
| 08:12.09 | nox-Hand | And then I'll be in no fun |
| 08:12.22 | Stephmw | nox-Hand: I''l be thinking of collecting in person + get a nice few days holiday |
| 08:12.36 | nox-Hand | Stephmw: Where, in Japan? |
| 08:12.39 | *** join/#openmoko lun (n=lun@77.105.3.149) |
| 08:12.44 | lun | hi |
| 08:12.49 | nox-Hand | Hi lun |
| 08:12.57 | Stephmw | nox-Hand: last I'd heard they were planning of shipping from within Europe too |
| 08:13.18 | lun | Great news about GTA0x ;) |
| 08:13.22 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-8-211.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 08:13.37 | SunZhiyong | 350 should be a tax off price |
| 08:13.50 | _buz | i would have hoped for some information about future line up |
| 08:13.52 | *** join/#openmoko andi_ (n=andi@dynamic-unidsl-85-197-25-172.westend.de) |
| 08:14.00 | nox-Hand | _buz: I wonder whether one could get enough votes that state "I won't buy at this price, but I will if we can get them for 350" - get a few thousand of them and it might be worth it for them to drop price due to more sales |
| 08:14.04 | nox-Hand | Though unlikely |
| 08:14.06 | lun | Is ordering posible now or after jul 9th ? |
| 08:14.06 | aloril | lun: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 08:14.13 | webjames | _buz 450 was more than i thought it would be |
| 08:14.26 | nox-Hand | lun: after 9th |
| 08:14.39 | lun | nox-Hand, thanks. |
| 08:14.40 | _buz | if they fix that ugly case i might pay 450$ |
| 08:14.52 | nox-Hand | _buz: ugly case? |
| 08:15.01 | webjames | !google 450 USD in GBP |
| 08:15.03 | cdbot2 | 450 U.S. dollars = 225.15761 British pounds |
| 08:15.09 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 08:15.19 | _buz | the case is over sized for what is within |
| 08:15.20 | webjames | !google 300 USD in GBP |
| 08:15.20 | cdbot2 | 300 U.S. dollars = 150.105074 British pounds |
| 08:15.21 | Lorphos | german news item: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/91868 |
| 08:15.39 | _buz | i think the round top/bottom are ridiculous, realy |
| 08:15.51 | webjames | _buz, once they have a mold i'm not sure they'll want to change that |
| 08:16.05 | webjames | _buz, quite expensive |
| 08:16.24 | nox-Hand | _buz: Also highly practical for user hacks :P |
| 08:16.52 | webjames | you could make your own case |
| 08:16.55 | _buz | yeah quite expensive |
| 08:16.58 | carrar | l |
| 08:17.01 | *** part/#openmoko carrar (i=tim@osburn.com) |
| 08:17.03 | _buz | but likely worth it from marketing point of view |
| 08:17.04 | webjames | then submit your design see if they like it |
| 08:17.25 | webjames | _buz maybe you could sell third party cases |
| 08:17.31 | nox-Hand | _buz: Agred, make a highly detailed concept design that fits around current design |
| 08:17.33 | _buz | i suck as desinger |
| 08:17.41 | webjames | shame |
| 08:17.49 | roh | LittleIdiot there is also spi and a irq-capable gpio on pads |
| 08:17.54 | Stephmw | _buz: it'll make seeing your creation even more enjoyable :D |
| 08:18.10 | *** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-150-179.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 08:18.15 | _buz | honestly, take the current design and square it |
| 08:18.36 | _buz | and use that rubbery feeling plastic |
| 08:18.39 | *** part/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 08:18.59 | *** join/#openmoko lrak (n=kbeldan@def92-4-82-224-196-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:19.03 | _buz | or brushed metal if the rf issues can be sorted out |
| 08:19.19 | BlackFog | Lorphos: thx 4 link |
| 08:20.15 | nox-Hand | _buz: I don't know whether it is already, but I am hoping for the sides (edges) to be wider than the rest of the phone - if it was a rubbery substance, you could be able to accidentaly drop it without damaging screen |
| 08:20.51 | _buz | the first of the archos hd players was built like that |
| 08:21.32 | fish_ | if i would buy a openmoko now, how much discount i would get for the next hardware revision? are there already some informations about that? |
| 08:22.26 | Stephmw | _buz, nox-Hand: ... guys, what are you designing? A niche, warzone-capable handset? Or mass-market, consumer-friendly handset? |
| 08:22.38 | nox-Hand | Stephmw: THe first :) |
| 08:22.49 | nox-Hand | Stephmw: Though I like the desing as is :( |
| 08:23.04 | nox-Hand | s/desing/design/ |
| 08:23.42 | Stephmw | nox-Hand: then it's better for you to make your own case then, rather than getting OpenMoko to switch wholescale ;) |
| 08:24.04 | nox-Hand | Stephmw: I never suggested changing casewholescale |
| 08:24.14 | nox-Hand | Stephmw: I want the original case |
| 08:24.53 | Stephmw | nox-Hand: ah yes, that was _buz |
| 08:25.19 | nox-Hand | Hehe :) |
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| 08:26.01 | _buz | i think the phone looks more like a toy than a professional device right now |
| 08:26.18 | _buz | and i heard that ocmment from various people i talked with |
| 08:26.20 | nox-Hand | Wow, the CPU is going to be upgraded from 266MHz to 400MHz and 64mb flash ram to 256mb flash ram :o |
| 08:26.20 | Stephmw | fits right in with the OLPC |
| 08:26.43 | Stephmw | _buz: sure, I don't claim that as it is it's mass-market friendly |
| 08:27.27 | Stephmw | _buz: but really, until they've got the hw sorted, I don't really mind what it looks like |
| 08:27.54 | nox-Hand | Stephmw: I think the next model will be awesome probably |
| 08:28.00 | _buz | if GTA-02 is supposed to be sold to the masses, it should better look like it |
| 08:28.17 | nox-Hand | full QWERTY |
| 08:28.25 | nox-Hand | I don't rightly like touch screen keyboards |
| 08:28.39 | Stephmw | _buz: I handle _lots_ of protos at work, and tbh, I can't understand how some ever succeed (look-wise) |
| 08:28.44 | Stephmw | _buz: but they do |
| 08:28.45 | koen | "Taiwanese people don't trust e-commerce" |
| 08:29.03 | Stephmw | koen: yeah, that was surprising |
| 08:29.08 | _buz | yeah gimme slide qwerty |
| 08:29.14 | _buz | he should buy stuff in hongkong |
| 08:29.22 | _buz | tons of neat mainboard etc on sale there |
| 08:29.27 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@guest54.crihan.fr) |
| 08:29.32 | nox-Hand | rwhitby: haha |
| 08:29.43 | _buz | actually as i understan it, openmoko makes those decisions now |
| 08:29.51 | _buz | fic is only ODM |
| 08:29.54 | Stephmw | rwhitby: I was under the understanding that it's cheaper (mechanically) to not have a keyboard/pad for now |
| 08:30.05 | rwhitby | _buz: actually, you are very correct on that point. |
| 08:30.17 | rwhitby | openmoko is no longer just a software distribution, it is a hardware company too. |
| 08:30.23 | koen | Stephmw: sean said he does not want to make mini-pcs |
| 08:30.34 | _buz | its obviouslly cheaper to not add qwerty |
| 08:30.40 | _buz | but i'd happily pay for qwerty |
| 08:30.59 | _buz | (having said that, i can live with TS, i do so for 3,5 years already) |
| 08:30.59 | Stephmw | koen: I can understand his position - that niche has lots of bad press |
| 08:31.11 | _buz | htc seems to live quite comfortably there |
| 08:31.17 | Stephmw | _buz: have you used the qwerty kbd on a P910? |
| 08:31.20 | *** join/#openmoko jens_ (n=q@C2ab5.c.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 08:31.25 | jens_ | hi |
| 08:31.30 | _buz | that one is totally ridiculous |
| 08:31.43 | rwhitby | I personally cannot move from a Treo650 to a device without a keyboard. But I can see that there are enough people who have not experienced the pure utopia of a Treo device that OpenMoko will have a market for a keyboard-less device ;-) |
| 08:31.43 | aloril | $3000: with price of iPhone you can probably get 2 year updates of Neo1973 (including GTA01B_v4, GTA02, GTA03, ...): http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN2636373120070626 |
| 08:31.47 | Stephmw | _buz: maybe, but I can get a good typing speed on it |
| 08:31.59 | koen | _buz: htc is a (hostile) spinoff of FIC |
| 08:32.09 | _buz | i know |
| 08:32.19 | _buz | maybe thats why fic cant directly compete? |
| 08:33.09 | nox-Hand | aloril: ++ |
| 08:35.33 | aloril | _buz: I think plan has been all the time to sell GTA02 to masses (just that 2 phases for software) |
| 08:38.32 | Lorphos | @BlackFog: The article has new pictures now |
| 08:38.40 | jens_ | where i can find more info about the new mobil phone? e.g. shell access |
| 08:39.27 | BlackFog | Lorphos: cool, thx |
| 08:39.30 | Lorphos | yes there is shell access |
| 08:40.02 | webjames | haha, look at this: "One listing from a self-professed "professional waiter" offered to stand on line for a fee of $100 per eight hours wait." |
| 08:40.04 | aloril | jens_: see MokoMakefile link from FAQ: you can get software now |
| 08:40.17 | webjames | ha! |
| 08:40.18 | Stephmw | ~faq |
| 08:40.19 | apt | i heard faq is frequently asked question... try asking me about "RTFM" |
| 08:40.30 | aloril | faq? |
| 08:40.30 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 08:40.40 | jens_ | thanks |
| 08:41.12 | jens_ | where i find a shop in germany? |
| 08:42.26 | hrw | jens_: now it only will be available directly from FIC/Taiwan rather |
| 08:42.49 | *** join/#openmoko fix_ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-178.upc.chello.be) |
| 08:43.47 | jens_ | i must handle the tax for germany / eu ? |
| 08:43.53 | Lorphos | jens: you can only order it online for now but it will probably be shipped from inside the EU |
| 08:44.14 | jens_ | ok ;) |
| 08:45.09 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A35327.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:45.12 | Lorphos | sean confirmed this a long time ago and laf0rge's latest blog entry also mentions this http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/06/28/#20070628-openmoko_update |
| 08:46.43 | aloril | hmm.. maybe poster doesn't realize that GSM is different part? http://tieguy.org/blog/2007/06/28/gpl-v3-the-qa-part-3-companies/ |
| 08:47.24 | *** join/#openmoko yacc_ (n=andreas@081-003-244-018.dyn.one.at) |
| 08:50.11 | jens_ | works the handy with umts or g3 networks? |
| 08:50.38 | rwhitby | jens_: have you read anything on the wiki yet? |
| 08:50.47 | jens_ | only the faq |
| 08:51.39 | rwhitby | and the page linked from Q4.2 didn't answer that for you? |
| 08:51.50 | jens_ | a moment please |
| 08:52.44 | jens_ | i do not need a provider list. but i see the frequency ranges. |
| 08:53.03 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 08:53.16 | aloril | seems quite relevant post (not about FIC, but still relevant to what happened with new OpenMoko company): http://asay.blogspot.com/2006/11/business-model-innovation-you-have-to.html |
| 08:53.46 | aloril | jens_: also see Neo1973 page linked from FAQ |
| 08:54.32 | rwhitby | aloril: it is true that the wiki assumes that someone already knows the difference between GSM and 3G/UMTS ... |
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| 08:56.28 | ewon | counter |
| 08:56.29 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T05:42) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 4 days 03:03:31 (11.127±1.0 days) (1636;241) |
| 08:56.35 | jens_ | your webpage is primary for end consumers? |
| 08:56.39 | ewon | no |
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| 08:57.12 | Stephmw | hmmm, time for a consumer-friendly webpage? |
| 08:57.21 | rwhitby | end consumer release is not until september at least, right? |
| 08:57.23 | Stephmw | s/webpage/eiki entry/ |
| 08:57.32 | aloril | rwhitby: yeah, I guess there should be separate Q&A about 3G, GPRS, etc.. |
| 08:57.44 | Rince | Geee |
| 08:57.49 | Rince | Heise has already a new article - nice |
| 08:58.02 | rwhitby | url? |
| 08:58.05 | aloril | rwhitby: not until October at least ;-) |
| 08:58.07 | Rince | http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/91868 |
| 08:58.09 | Rince | german only, sorry |
| 08:59.03 | aloril | google can translate it understantably: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fmeldung%2F91868&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools |
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| 09:09.49 | GaKKGaKk | That translation is rather pessimistic about GTA02 |
| 09:10.05 | GaKKGaKk | ... the next hardware revision GTA02 is announced, this is to fail clearly more efficiently ... |
| 09:11.08 | koen | that translation is wrong |
| 09:11.19 | koen | "Für Oktober ist die nächste Hardwarerevision GTA02 angekündigt, diese soll deutlich leistungsfähiger ausfallen " |
| 09:11.38 | gamin | according to isupply the combined hardware and manufacturing costs of the gta_01 are 190$ - http://www.isuppli.com/news/default.asp?id=7308 |
| 09:11.48 | koen | is "the gtao2 has been announced for oktoper, with clearly better specs" |
| 09:11.51 | GaKKGaKk | koen: Wrong, but fun :D |
| 09:12.08 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 09:13.18 | Placid | oh man what a nice thing to read when you check your email in the morning :) |
| 09:14.14 | lardman | Strange translations google gives |
| 09:14.36 | Placid | translations strange gives Google |
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| 09:15.06 | lardman | You'd have thought they'd try to translate entire words before breaking them down into components (e.g. hochauflösenden = high res not highly soluble) |
| 09:15.25 | roh | gamin taking prices apple gets through volumes are not really compareable i think |
| 09:17.08 | gamin | roh put 20% on top. FIC is not a small player. |
| 09:17.10 | GaKKGaKk | GPS-Empfänger is translated to "government inspection department receiver" |
| 09:17.26 | jeddy3 | haha xD |
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| 09:20.05 | roh | gamin i dunno real prices. its the numbers which count. and those like the announced ones are rather low. so beware what could happen when later devices are in mp and the counts go way up |
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| 09:21.05 | rwhitby | I guess they will not say that July 9th won't happen ... |
| 09:21.09 | rwhitby | s/not/now/ |
| 09:21.31 | rwhitby | and then they'll say that orders will never be shipped ... |
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| 09:24.03 | fish_ | is there still nothing known about the discount i get when i buy a developer device "now" and a phase 2 phone in october? |
| 09:25.16 | gamin | fish_: RTFA |
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| 09:26.05 | fish_ | i read the faq.. well, i'll read it again |
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| 09:26.36 | gamin | just the announcement: the phone is "discounted" to 300$ |
| 09:27.25 | gamin | We've decided that instead of setting up a complicated return or tracking system to remember who gets a discount for GTA02, we going to give you _all_ a discount on GTA01. We're going to sell the Neo Base for $300. |
| 09:27.26 | aloril | rwhitby: yeah, they believe it when somebody receives paid phone (and of course then they will complain that they can't buy one because it sold out ;-) |
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| 09:29.29 | aloril | fish_: there is discount system: $50 cheaper for GTA01_v4 and then you can sell it when you buy GTA02 ;-) |
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| 09:35.03 | _buz | mhh so neo costs more to make than i thought |
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| 09:37.31 | _buz | if isupply is right, i retract my claim of it costing less than 150$ to make |
| 09:38.36 | Moo^^ | is iphone competition pressing down the price? ;) |
| 09:39.18 | aloril | they prefer to have developers now instead of later |
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| 09:43.25 | fish_ | well.. i would like to have my neo asap but when i think i'll really want the GTA02 it would be a pretty stupid idea to buy the GTA01 first... |
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| 09:45.09 | xkr47 | fish_, would you consider selling your GTA01 to me for $200 after getting the GTA02 ?-) |
| 09:46.08 | xkr47 | there should be a page in the wiki where you can tell you are selling your moko and for what price you can consider selling it :) |
| 09:46.11 | fish_ | even that would costs me $100 for 3 month playing around.. |
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| 09:50.01 | aloril | fish_: cheapest iPhone contract is something like 2x of that ;-) |
| 09:50.18 | aloril | (and it could as well be 5 months too) |
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| 09:56.34 | mjr | there's news then |
| 09:56.46 | mjr | and heck if I'm not gonna buy the thing |
| 09:56.56 | tg | counter |
| 09:56.56 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T05:42) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 4 days 02:03:04 (11.085±1.0 days) (1637;241) |
| 09:57.45 | aloril | mjr: ditto (also I get host USB cable with it for 'free' ;-) |
| 09:58.05 | mjr | aloril, yeah, that's pretty much the straw there that may break the camel's back ;D |
| 09:58.26 | aloril | its just $100 more than $350 ;-) |
| 09:58.43 | mjr | ...and there's that too, when already in the mood to spend 350 ;) |
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| 10:00.01 | roh | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RcCFrf-NW0 |
| 10:00.31 | roh | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjhzm_hpEbo |
| 10:01.42 | ewon | is wifi certain for GTA02? |
| 10:01.48 | aloril | mjr: 1700mAh battery also not mentioned, but I guess it could be even more by that time ;-) |
| 10:02.01 | mjr | *sigh*, the w word again |
| 10:02.07 | mjr | ewon, as certain as Sean's word it |
| 10:02.07 | mjr | is |
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| 10:02.33 | aloril | mjr: I still would not give 0% probability for EDGE |
| 10:02.49 | mjr | aloril, well, true, I suppose it could sneak in as a minor upgrade |
| 10:03.31 | aloril | mjr: or it could be that are still too unsure to dare mention that (leave it as positive surprise) |
| 10:03.36 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-235-36.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 10:03.41 | mjr | or there's that, yes |
| 10:04.03 | mjr | anyway, better not hold breath :] |
| 10:04.29 | aloril | mjr: anyway, iPhone price ($2000): with that you can buy GTA01B_v4, GTA02, GTA03, ... during next 2 years ;-) |
| 10:04.50 | _buz | calculation of iphone price is off |
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| 10:04.56 | mjr | aloril, and probably will... |
| 10:04.57 | _buz | that would assume you're phone calls for free |
| 10:05.12 | _buz | your |
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| 10:06.33 | mjr | it was supposed to be a birthday gift though, on May 10th ;) |
| 10:06.55 | aloril | hmm.. let see: $500 + $60 * 48 about $2000 for iPhone |
| 10:07.44 | aloril | hmm.. let see: $500 + $60 * 24 about $2000 for iPhone |
| 10:07.58 | Stephmw | aloril: butbut, you're paying for the _experience_ of getting it up the arse by Jobs... |
| 10:08.10 | aloril | $450 + $450 + $450 (guess;-) + $15 * 24 about $300 cheaper |
| 10:08.36 | Stephmw | aloril: seriously though, the OpenMoko cost is also deferred with regards to software... someone's gonna be developing it somewhere (it could even be you!) |
| 10:08.45 | aloril | (actually doubt its going to be $15/month, probably less) |
| 10:09.04 | aloril | Stephmw: of course ;-) |
| 10:09.28 | aloril | Stephmw: thats why get software I want with Neo1973, but can't get it on iPhone |
| 10:09.41 | aloril | Stephmw: so really price is minor point considering this |
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| 10:10.36 | thresh | woohoo |
| 10:10.40 | aloril | Stephmw: so in my opinion Neo1973 wins hugely on features in software side |
| 10:10.40 | thresh | just read the mail by sean |
| 10:10.56 | thresh | congrats! |
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| 10:15.05 | aloril | roh: hehe, so that is explanation of spy remark |
| 10:15.19 | roh | aloil: dunno.. just guessing |
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| 10:18.46 | Stephmw | roh: good find |
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| 10:21.30 | aloril | roh: that "confidential" and "0:12 am" kind of hints about that (and its at right place too) ;-) |
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| 10:38.37 | florian | good morning |
| 10:42.16 | aloril | mjr: congrats on getting married |
| 10:42.54 | xkr47 | oo.. congrats mjr :) |
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| 11:17.05 | aloril | counter_msg (last update 2007-06-28T11:13) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in |
| 11:17.05 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (last update 2007-06-28T11:13) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in |
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| 11:17.25 | aloril | (just added those 'spy' videos) |
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| 12:07.46 | webjames | aloril, those videos sound interesting |
| 12:11.02 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Hardware:AGPS]] [[Talk:IPhone]] [[IPhone]] [[User:Flerchjj]] |
| 12:11.12 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@TheWide.ubyt.sdjls.uniba.sk) |
| 12:11.14 | webjames | hmm.. |
| 12:12.24 | webjames | the speech synthesis sound interesting |
| 12:12.51 | ewon | cpu should just about be beefy enough for something like flite |
| 12:13.02 | ewon | you could even telnet in and freak someone out remotely :) |
| 12:13.20 | ewon | "you stole my openmoko, I'm going to hunt you down and sell your kidneys on the black market" etc. |
| 12:13.23 | schurig | Stephmw: I wouldn't have mind if the Basic phone would have stayed at 350$, but the developer phone would have been made cheaper instead |
| 12:13.25 | webjames | !google define:flite |
| 12:13.27 | cdbot2 | Festival is a general multi-lingual speech synthesis system developed at Centre for Speech Technology Research (CSTR) at the University of Edinburgh. @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flite ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=all&q=define:flite ) |
| 12:13.32 | schurig | Stephmw: after all, you right now need more developers :-) |
| 12:14.33 | webjames | these vids that aloril got on his counter page are interesting |
| 12:14.34 | koen | schurig: but does every developer need jtag? |
| 12:14.36 | DukeOfURL | I'd be interested in speech recognition and speaker identification/verification |
| 12:14.42 | koen | or a shoulderstrap? |
| 12:14.48 | DukeOfURL | audio commands from the user |
| 12:15.40 | DukeOfURL | download the models from a central server |
| 12:15.43 | *** join/#openmoko wewKieface (n=benjamin@87.60.168.173) |
| 12:16.32 | schurig | DukeOfURL: so, search for sphinx, atk, isip, sqpa, stk, things like that |
| 12:16.58 | schurig | DukeOfURL: there are millions of people that produce paper about this topic, but not usable & fast software with a sane license |
| 12:17.11 | schurig | s/paper/tons of papers/ |
| 12:17.51 | DukeOfURL | I'm looking at htk from Cambridge... |
| 12:17.52 | aloril | webjames: thanks to roh for pasting links here |
| 12:18.23 | webjames | thanks roh, the videos are interesting |
| 12:19.10 | schurig | DukeOfURL: there's not even a free corpus (database of recorded speech) that you can use to train a recognizer or to test speaker separation |
| 12:19.27 | schurig | DukeOfURL: there is a project for a corpus in english language, but for other languages: nil |
| 12:19.50 | DukeOfURL | I've purchased the TIMIT corpus for English |
| 12:19.51 | schurig | DukeOfURL: the Universities and Institutes sit on this material and charge you ~ 500-1000 EU per database |
| 12:20.06 | DukeOfURL | yup |
| 12:20.34 | schurig | so, in short, Open Source for Speech recognition sucks currently |
| 12:22.10 | DukeOfURL | The phone has to do the recognition/verification bits before the speech is compressed by GSM |
| 12:22.45 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 12:24.09 | webjames | shame, i'm sure project like this will drive other project forward |
| 12:24.26 | webjames | and vice versa |
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| 13:02.01 | mjr | more verification of iPhone's SIM madness from theregister; "While the iPhone's own shortcomings have been glossed over - the SIM is sealed and locked down" |
| 13:02.39 | SpeedEvil | Its a GSM phone? |
| 13:02.42 | Rince | that's great |
| 13:02.55 | mjr | SpeedEvil, yesyes |
| 13:03.47 | SpeedEvil | Does that mean actually glued in? |
| 13:03.51 | mjr | as Stephmw said, "epoxy resin is every AT&T sales rep's friend" |
| 13:04.02 | *** join/#openmoko suihkulokki (i=rvoipio@nat/movial/x-dcb13e31481caf01) |
| 13:04.27 | mjr | SpeedEvil, that's how I read it, since that sort of information has been leaking out elsewhere as well |
| 13:04.56 | *** join/#openmoko njpatel (n=njp@5ac04797.bb.sky.com) |
| 13:05.15 | Elrond | Hi people. |
| 13:05.33 | webjames | yeah i head something about the sim being in the phone, but elsewhere i heard it does have a sim slot |
| 13:05.40 | webjames | hey elrond |
| 13:05.46 | Elrond | So openmoko was on heise (local IT news) and everybody bugged me about the neo. ;o) |
| 13:05.54 | *** part/#openmoko jsmanrique (n=jsmanriq@cme-212-89-8-169.telecable.es) |
| 13:06.41 | drath | people should just stop buying apple stuff... it's a far worse vendor-lockin than say ms... |
| 13:07.44 | mjr | they are. |
| 13:08.06 | zecke | yeah the iPhone is simlocked |
| 13:08.15 | ewon | it's simlocked? |
| 13:08.19 | ewon | cocks |
| 13:08.30 | [lankester] | goodbuy unlocking :| |
| 13:08.35 | [lankester] | goodbye |
| 13:08.40 | webjames | i am just looking at various data packages in the uk |
| 13:08.48 | webjames | anyone else done that? |
| 13:09.56 | zecke | ewon: check wsj.com |
| 13:10.33 | *** part/#openmoko suihkulokki (i=rvoipio@nat/movial/x-dcb13e31481caf01) |
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| 13:12.29 | webjames | this is interesting: http://www.onecompare.com/mobile-news/311/75698547/how-will-vodafone-compare-with-other-mobile-internet-providers.htm |
| 13:13.33 | webjames | 3 seemed a good deal, but apparently you can't: "[James Olney] that's a shame as i cannot use another hand set. are you sure there is no way of putting the settings into another 3g GPRS phone? |
| 13:13.33 | webjames | [Rahul] 3 sim card has to be used in 3 handset only" |
| 13:18.19 | SpeedEvil | AIUI. |
| 13:18.37 | SpeedEvil | That's not strictly correct. |
| 13:18.47 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A35327.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:19.05 | SpeedEvil | 3 will bar your SIM if you use it in a GSM only phone. |
| 13:19.23 | ecraven | (define (debug request) |
| 13:19.23 | ecraven | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:19.23 | ecraven | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:19.23 | ecraven | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:19.23 | ecraven | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:19.24 | ecraven | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:19.26 | ecraven | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:19.28 | ecraven | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:19.28 | SpeedEvil | As they are then usually charged roaming fees. |
| 13:19.30 | ecraven | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:19.32 | ecraven | damn, sorry... |
| 13:20.22 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it at the moment t-mobile is about the best deal - if you don't have 3G |
| 13:20.24 | SpeedEvil | (UK) |
| 13:20.26 | thresh | lisp! |
| 13:20.44 | SpeedEvil | 1 quid a day for up to 40Mb of data - on pay-as-you-go |
| 13:20.55 | SpeedEvil | (40M fair use) |
| 13:21.10 | SpeedEvil | Or 7.50/month additional on a contract, for up to 1G/day |
| 13:21.24 | SpeedEvil | The cheapest contract though is 20 quid. |
| 13:21.55 | SpeedEvil | I have yet to have a response from them on if it's possible to add 'WebNWalk' to a SIM-only contract. (7.50/mo) |
| 13:22.25 | zecke | ecraven: what kind of lisp/scheme is that? |
| 13:22.59 | ecraven | scheme48 with a bunch of libraries |
| 13:23.05 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gw.aurisp.de) |
| 13:23.12 | ecraven | it's web framework code, something i'm working on |
| 13:23.18 | nox-Hand | Joy, for today the OpenMoko from my grasp lept :[ |
| 13:24.53 | SpeedEvil | Smash? |
| 13:26.02 | aloril | (script) http://www.openmoko.com changed: sizeof(diff -u)=10300 |
| 13:26.35 | aloril | oh, they added announce there |
| 13:26.45 | aloril | it was starting to get outdated ;-) |
| 13:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 13:30.35 | *** join/#openmoko yacc_ (n=andreas@091-141-050-137.dyn.one.at) |
| 13:30.39 | *** join/#openmoko Sarpedo1 (n=caj00001@d50h127.public.uconn.edu) |
| 13:31.02 | aloril | (script) http://www.openmoko.com changed: sizeof(diff -u)=2054 |
| 13:33.14 | *** join/#openmoko HanzZ (n=HanzZ@212.24.149.74) |
| 13:34.25 | aloril | that change could be marked with "m" (spaces added, lower case and similar) |
| 13:34.46 | webjames | SpeedEvil, re SIM-only. yes that would be an excellent deal, at 15 a month. i shall investigate this as well |
| 13:35.07 | SpeedEvil | webjames: I don't think they do - the wording on the website was ambiguous. |
| 13:35.26 | SpeedEvil | However. I think I'm going to go with the PAYG + buying days here and there. |
| 13:36.05 | SpeedEvil | I'm unlikely to use it mobile more than 14 days/mo. |
| 13:36.35 | webjames | SpeedEvil, 3 had live support which answered many of my questions i may ring t mobile up and ask |
| 13:37.02 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Minor correction |
| 13:37.12 | SpeedEvil | OMG - $150! |
| 13:37.15 | SpeedEvil | (joking) |
| 13:37.38 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Hardware:AGPS]] |
| 13:38.23 | aloril | ( s/www.openmoko.com/openmoko.com/ in script because announcement refers to that site, doubt this has any real effect though ) |
| 13:40.14 | thresh | i suppose there would be no discount on P2 to ones who bought P1 |
| 13:40.52 | drath | thresh: that's what the announcement says |
| 13:41.09 | drath | thresh: instead the GTA01 (P1) has been made cheaper |
| 13:41.20 | thresh | oh, i misread |
| 13:41.38 | thresh | thanks. |
| 13:42.16 | nox-Hand | SpeedEvil: Just too expensive at 450 |
| 13:42.53 | webjames | that is a lot.. |
| 13:45.18 | aloril | (script) openmoko-announce: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> [openmoko-announce] Minor correction |
| 13:45.25 | hrw | ~change 450 usd to pln |
| 13:46.09 | webjames | !google 450 usd to pln |
| 13:46.10 | cdbot2 | 450 U.S. dollars = 1 268.09858 Polish zloty |
| 13:46.59 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F2DE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:47.10 | SpeedEvil | !google 450 usd to bars of cold-pressed-latinum |
| 13:47.12 | cdbot2 | Images @ http://images.google.com/images?um=1 | Images @ http://images.google.com/images?um=1 | Images @ http://images.google.com/images?um=1 |
| 13:47.25 | aloril | counter_msg (last update 2007-06-28T13:46) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in |
| 13:47.25 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (last update 2007-06-28T13:46) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in |
| 13:47.43 | CM | aloril: Nice trigger that diffs openmoko.com :) |
| 13:48.15 | aloril | (above minor correction added to counter page) |
| 13:48.42 | aloril | CM: thanks, hopefully that page is not made dynamic (but I should awake and fix it if it happens ;-) |
| 13:48.49 | CM | Hehe |
| 13:49.56 | aloril | at least everybody here will notice if it spams every 5 minutes after webshop opens ;-) |
| 13:50.37 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:52.57 | webjames | !google 450 usd to xau |
| 13:52.59 | cdbot2 | Images @ http://images.google.com/images?um=1 | Exchange Rates - 1998 - Daily series @ http://www.bnro.ro/En/Info/Istoric/Curs_z1998.asp%20class=l | SIMPLICITY Riding Mower Grounds Care Nor @ http://www.equipmentlocator.com/asp/browse/loc/na-en/con/4/industry/gc/type/74/make/simplicity/model/viewall/%20class=l |
| 13:53.09 | *** join/#openmoko _k-s_ (n=gustavo@205.233.52.212) |
| 13:53.17 | webjames | xau is a gold ounce |
| 13:53.48 | webjames | didnt work |
| 13:54.14 | *** join/#openmoko njpatel (n=njp@5ac04797.bb.sky.com) |
| 13:58.08 | aloril | from community mailing list: Sony Ericsson leaves smartphone sufferers spitting: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/28/sony_ericsson_firmware_snub/ |
| 13:58.28 | mjr | ref. earlier, $450 for GTA02 is _not_ a lot, or expensive, IMAO |
| 13:59.00 | Sarpedo1 | A bit more than expected, but not bad. |
| 13:59.10 | mjr | you all whined for wifi, now pay for it ;P |
| 13:59.17 | summatusmentis | well, out of pocket, for a college student... that's a bit steep |
| 13:59.29 | summatusmentis | I'm probably stil gonna do it, but it's up there |
| 14:01.00 | cheesy | mjr: you're right!# |
| 14:01.18 | *** join/#openmoko nexus10 (n=nichols7@213-152-52-109.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) |
| 14:01.48 | aloril | it has CPU upgrade and GPU too: those matter, especially later one could enable various interesting things |
| 14:02.10 | mjr | summatusmentis, 'course there are situations where affording $450 is hard. Point being rather that for the device, it's not a lot. |
| 14:02.37 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-8-211.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 14:03.49 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@216-107-194-166.static.gdt.cust.seg.NET) |
| 14:04.09 | summatusmentis | mjr: yeah, I guess that's true. I'm not overly familiar with 'unsubsidized' prices for phones, as I live in the US, and all companies want to sell you a contract. I know that my Zaurus 3200 was ~$550, so $450 isn't terrible |
| 14:05.07 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 14:05.18 | Lorphos | ?Lorphos |
| 14:05.41 | *** join/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 14:06.30 | hrw | summatusmentis: go to nokia.com then and look at prices |
| 14:07.34 | lalo | halp! Can't build pulseaudio -- do_install gives me something like: .../temp/run.do_install.25528: 692: do_install: not found |
| 14:07.55 | lalo | (I can pastebin the whole thing if it helps) |
| 14:08.16 | *** join/#openmoko AlexZhang (n=alexzhan@61.141.182.80) |
| 14:08.41 | *** join/#openmoko slider_ (n=foo@e182041004.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:11.07 | nexus10 | hi -- has there been any news on when we might see the wifi 802.11g stuff, scheduled IIUC for the mass-market GTA02? I *really* want wifi... |
| 14:11.08 | aloril | GTA02 (P1+/P1.5) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 14:11.49 | cjb | nexus10: october |
| 14:12.11 | nexus10 | cjb: ok, so we won't see a wifi-capable device till the consumer product is ready to ship? |
| 14:12.28 | summatusmentis | nexus10: it's looking like ir |
| 14:12.29 | summatusmentis | it* |
| 14:12.57 | nexus10 | ok, tx all -- I'll have to learn patience ;-) |
| 14:12.57 | aloril | nexus10: I think hope is that software is ready when hardware is ready ;-) |
| 14:13.07 | nexus10 | lol |
| 14:13.22 | summatusmentis | aloril: do you really expect that many more issues w/ the updated hardware? |
| 14:13.42 | aloril | it was excepted that hardware for GTA02 could take some time |
| 14:14.01 | *** join/#openmoko zecke_ (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 14:14.15 | aloril | summatusmentis: hard to say, but it could take some time and some of components are under testing |
| 14:14.56 | summatusmentis | aloril: well, of course, but there's not _that_ much being added. Maybe this is my own ignorace as to manufacturing |
| 14:15.11 | slider_ | 3 months for the complete software-stack seems "optimistic" to me :) |
| 14:15.21 | slider_ | given the current state.. |
| 14:15.35 | aloril | well, I don't know about hardware manufacturing either, but based on what happened with GTA01* it seems every hardware spin is month or so |
| 14:15.52 | koen | gta01's design was outsourced |
| 14:16.01 | koen | gta02 has been designed in-house |
| 14:16.08 | aloril | ah, that could speed up things |
| 14:16.38 | aloril | maybe October happens then hmm.. |
| 14:17.43 | aloril | also they have now much more resources (based on latest announce) |
| 14:17.56 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.54) |
| 14:19.32 | SpeedEvil | slider_: Who knows - pump in lots extra funding - and it might happen. |
| 14:20.09 | aloril | if GTA01B_v4 sells well -> more outside development |
| 14:20.35 | aloril | also I guess they might hire more good hackers to work on software (like RedHat, etc.. have done) |
| 14:20.47 | aloril | and OpenMoko has done with current code team |
| 14:20.55 | lalo | engfeh, my problem is on bugzilla. Why didn't I find it yesterday? :-( |
| 14:21.14 | lalo | sorry |
| 14:23.27 | SpeedEvil | For example - 50K for a complete phase 1 app, ... |
| 14:24.34 | summatusmentis | hell, if that kind of money were being offered, i'd break down, buy a GTA01, and learn to write an app |
| 14:25.19 | SpeedEvil | They would need some sort of arbitration process. |
| 14:25.25 | SpeedEvil | And way of dividing funding. |
| 14:25.44 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: of course of course |
| 14:26.17 | lalo | I'm not sure how good I am, but they're getting my resume anyway, as soon as they have a "jobs" page or something like that :-) |
| 14:27.44 | summatusmentis | lol, my resume consists of reformatting computers, web maintainence, and lifeguarding. Not the most impressive in the world |
| 14:28.40 | Lorphos | so.. is the neo1973 indeed going from Mini USB to Micro USB? |
| 14:29.05 | summatusmentis | what? |
| 14:29.30 | summatusmentis | what in the world is Mirco USB? |
| 14:29.31 | Lorphos | Seans announcement mentions Micro USB |
| 14:29.49 | Lorphos | it's the current small form factor usb plug. mini usb is obsolete |
| 14:31.22 | mjr | since the advanced kit talks about mini |
| 14:32.47 | webjames | see: http://www.gadgetell.com/2007/01/micro-usb-specs-released/ and http://www.dontronics-shop.com/product.php?productid=16141 |
| 14:32.47 | Lorphos | anyway, Mini USB was deprecated for new devices on May 25th |
| 14:33.22 | hrw | Lorphos: really? |
| 14:33.45 | *** join/#openmoko Tronic (i=tronic@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe30fa00-139.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:34.08 | Lorphos | there's a link to the announcement at http://www.usb.org/developers |
| 14:34.52 | Lorphos | Apparently Micro USB has been designed for more insertions before breaking |
| 14:35.19 | webjames | oooo: http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/mobile-phones-to-adopt-smaller-micro-usb-connector/ |
| 14:35.27 | webjames | yeah aparently 10,000 |
| 14:36.16 | webjames | also on that page read the 1st comment |
| 14:36.21 | webjames | sounds a good idea to me! |
| 14:36.41 | webjames | comment from 'bill' |
| 14:39.07 | *** part/#openmoko nexus10 (n=nichols7@213-152-52-109.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) |
| 14:40.43 | Sarpedo1 | Stupid question probably...I finally got the Moko build environment setup on my computer and it looks to be running well ...but how do you get a keyboard to show up? |
| 14:41.35 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p549284CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:41.43 | aloril | click on gray square near upper left corner |
| 14:41.43 | cjb | click on the top white area |
| 14:41.56 | CM | Why is it white btw? |
| 14:42.09 | CM | Also, does the stroke thing work at all? |
| 14:42.29 | CM | The one you get in the drop-down menu when you click on the right sight of that gray thing |
| 14:44.21 | Sarpedo1 | Hrm, not seeing this top white area or gray square...top of the screen is a orange->black gradient with an OpenMoko icon in the upper left |
| 14:45.46 | CM | This micro-SD seems nice: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/06/27/tosh_4gb_msdhc/ |
| 14:47.50 | mjr | yummy; has anyone gotten their hands onto a microSDHC card to try in practice with the Neo yet, tho? |
| 14:48.17 | cjb | mjr: the neo is shipped with one |
| 14:48.22 | thomasg__ | no |
| 14:48.32 | thomasg__ | the neo is shipped with 2x512 microSD (no HC!) cards |
| 14:48.36 | cjb | oops, yes. |
| 14:48.41 | thomasg__ | afaik microSDHC-cards are still not available (world wide) |
| 14:48.41 | cjb | missed the HC. I see. |
| 14:49.02 | thomasg__ | there are 2-3 different SDHC-cards, but it seems there is no microSDHC yet |
| 14:49.16 | drath | thomasg__: only the "advanced" package is shipped with 2x512, the "normal" package comes with only one |
| 14:49.40 | mjr | yeah, that 2x was a typo in the original announce; Sean corrected it a bit later |
| 14:50.10 | thomasg__ | ah, k |
| 14:50.38 | thomasg__ | so or so, the scope of delivery is great for this price! |
| 14:51.03 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AFFA2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:56.32 | *** join/#openmoko Maulkin (n=maulkin@cheddar.halon.org.uk) |
| 14:57.25 | daxxar | What's the flash on the v1? |
| 14:57.38 | daxxar | It says v2 will have 256MB |
| 14:57.54 | Elrond | GTA01: 64MB flash |
| 14:58.24 | daxxar | Thanks |
| 14:58.33 | daxxar | What will need to be stored on the flash, any info yet? |
| 14:58.40 | aloril | detailed information of GTA01B_v4: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Neo1973_Hardware |
| 14:58.52 | don-o | daxxar: openmoko will be stored on the flash :) |
| 14:59.11 | daxxar | The framework and the kernel? |
| 14:59.12 | aloril | daxxar: I think you can boot from microSD too, so nothing is 'needed' ;-) |
| 14:59.17 | mjr | I don't think much _needs_ to be on the flash |
| 14:59.17 | daxxar | aloril: Ah, cool. |
| 14:59.18 | mjr | yeah |
| 14:59.29 | drath | aloril: the bootloader certainly is ;) |
| 14:59.48 | aloril | daxxar: in shipping configuration openmoko distribution must fit completely on flash I think |
| 15:00.10 | mjr | yeah, it really does |
| 15:00.33 | mjr | but what you do with it after, that's another story |
| 15:00.54 | aloril | putting any OS part of microSD is really only for developers/hackes (it being by default FAT{16,32}) |
| 15:01.16 | *** join/#openmoko Cairdazar_ (n=Cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to) |
| 15:01.34 | daxxar | Hm, I guess the SD will be accessible as a 'mass storage device' from the PC? |
| 15:01.35 | mjr | is it? FAT? |
| 15:01.37 | CM | mrj: Heh.. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/06/28/sandisk_announces_8gb_microsdhc/ |
| 15:01.43 | CM | :-D |
| 15:01.57 | aloril | mjr: usually *SD cards become formatted as FAT ;-) |
| 15:02.18 | CM | 8GB in a micro is truly impressive |
| 15:02.22 | mjr | aloril, yeah but I'm pretty much assuming it'd be reformatted in a jiffy... |
| 15:02.37 | *** part/#openmoko Maulkin (n=maulkin@cheddar.halon.org.uk) |
| 15:02.42 | mjr | you do want to be able to install applications and stuff on the SD as well |
| 15:03.05 | mjr | heck, moko could detect an empty FAT and reformat on the fly |
| 15:03.11 | aloril | mjr: of course, but I'm talking about "Mom and Dad" end user that takes it out and puts it to Her/His Windows PC card reader .. |
| 15:03.40 | don-o | gah! after 9 hours of compiling openmoko, the 8gb partition filled up. |
| 15:03.47 | aloril | and they would probably use it for images, videos, etc.. where it matters less |
| 15:04.13 | thomasg__ | CM: it is impressive, but until now they only announce. they announced a 4gb microSDHC in the early 2007 but it's not available until now... |
| 15:04.40 | slider_ | don-o: put INHERIT += "rm_work" into local.conf :) |
| 15:05.17 | don-o | slider_: O RLY? whats that do? |
| 15:05.18 | mjr | daxxar, it's possible to do that; shouldn't happen automatically though, as the microsd would have to be unmounted from Neo first |
| 15:05.29 | aloril | mjr: personally I'll probably partition it 2 parts: one for system and one for home (and not really use internal flash at all) |
| 15:05.41 | daxxar | mjr: Ah, okay. |
| 15:06.04 | *** join/#openmoko cydork (n=vihang@unaffiliated/cydork) |
| 15:06.10 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:06.22 | mjr | well, maybe it could happen automatically. At least when nothing on the card is in use. |
| 15:06.32 | daxxar | Well, I was just thinking; it would need to be fat32 if it's usb mass storage, right? (I mean, to be accessible from win32 without ext2fsd or whats-its-name) But if that's not default behaviour, I guess I'll put mine to ext2 or something else. |
| 15:06.43 | aloril | mjr: it could automatically unmount or ... well virtual storage is harder because access is low level |
| 15:06.47 | mjr | anyway, the kernel does support playing at usb mass storage, and usb network device, and stuff |
| 15:06.58 | slider_ | don-o: it'll remove the temp-files from the complete packages which saves a lot of space |
| 15:07.14 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 15:07.18 | daxxar | Oh well, can't wait till july 9th. :-) |
| 15:07.19 | mjr | aloril, it would be cool to have a virtual FAT there, using ext3 as backend ;) |
| 15:07.46 | *** join/#openmoko ruimoreir1 (n=rmoreira@87-196-117-20.net.novis.pt) |
| 15:07.48 | mjr | but yeah, not exactly trivial |
| 15:08.00 | ruimoreir1 | wow what have i missed |
| 15:08.00 | ruimoreir1 | :D |
| 15:08.29 | aloril | mjr: remember talk about internet connection trough virtual mass storage in past at ML? that was cool idea |
| 15:08.29 | daxxar | Too bad I'll have to shell out $450 extra for the cool hardware in october. |
| 15:08.30 | mjr | ruimoreir1, the mass market revision will have a V8 and an FPGA |
| 15:08.45 | daxxar | Btw, isn't ext2 recommended for flash filesystems that have "limited" writes? |
| 15:09.22 | thomasg__ | since 2.6.21 there should be some new flash-optimated filesystems in the kernel |
| 15:09.25 | mjr | daxxar, it would stress the microsd a bit less, yes, but fast bootup on crash is nice... |
| 15:09.32 | ruimoreir1 | and when willl p2 phones start selling ? |
| 15:09.40 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:09.41 | aloril | (reread file and it will have different content -> communication possible with virtual mass storage device) |
| 15:09.56 | daxxar | mjr: Mkay. :-) |
| 15:10.06 | SpeedEvil | Do the numbers on microSD endurance. |
| 15:10.08 | daxxar | thomasg__: Like what? :-) |
| 15:10.24 | SpeedEvil | It's not that bad actually - assuming wear leveling mostly works. |
| 15:10.38 | mjr | yeah, you probably toss a microSD anyway before it wears out... |
| 15:10.43 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 15:10.55 | *** join/#openmoko Cairdazar (n=Cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to) |
| 15:12.01 | thomasg__ | daxxar, don't know, this are new filesystems, developed for flash-devices. download the kernel sources and look :) still have 2.6.19 here |
| 15:12.06 | SpeedEvil | A million block SD - with a hundred thousand writes per block. That's a million writes/second for a day, or a thousand for 3 years. |
| 15:12.23 | daxxar | thomasg__: Okay, cool, will be neat. :-) |
| 15:12.47 | daxxar | SpeedEvil: Haa, cool. :-D |
| 15:12.50 | daxxar | Oh well, later. :-) |
| 15:13.16 | ruimoreir1 | anyone can buy for $300, starting July 9. -> is this true ? |
| 15:13.21 | hrw | yes |
| 15:13.24 | ruimoreir1 | wow |
| 15:13.33 | mjr | ruimoreir1, to the best of our, and Sean's, knowledge |
| 15:13.42 | ruimoreir1 | :D:D:D:D |
| 15:13.51 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 15:13.57 | hrw | ruimoreir1: but you cant complain about software ;D |
| 15:14.06 | ruimoreir1 | no i wont :D |
| 15:14.30 | mjr | daxxar, note that thomasg__ is talking about filesystems that use a plain flash and do wear-leveling and stuff themselves; they're appropriate for the internal flash, but not really for microsd, which does wear-leveling itself |
| 15:14.30 | SpeedEvil | Probably. |
| 15:15.03 | SpeedEvil | The quality of wear-leveling on microSD is a concern though. |
| 15:15.24 | thomasg__ | this filesystems are optimated to do as less writes per block as possible |
| 15:15.55 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 15:16.07 | mjr | SpeedEvil, well, one can't really correct for that from the outside. Unless it uses a really funky scheme. |
| 15:16.18 | mjr | (funky and known) |
| 15:16.32 | aloril | ruimoreir1: see openmoko.com for whole announcement |
| 15:17.51 | mjr | home now |
| 15:18.59 | juco | hey folks, I'm having trouble figuring out what the target for the base and the advanced kits |
| 15:19.35 | aloril | juco: in that case get base kit |
| 15:19.42 | juco | that's what I was thinking |
| 15:19.59 | juco | if I just want to write applications for the phone, then the base is all I need, right? |
| 15:20.04 | pjz | yeah |
| 15:20.06 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 15:20.09 | juco | the debug board would be for driver development? |
| 15:20.11 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 15:20.20 | pjz | you only really need the advanced kit if you plan on doing bootloader or kernel dev |
| 15:20.24 | SpeedEvil | u-boot development is the only thing you need it for. |
| 15:20.33 | SpeedEvil | This is equivalent to the PC 'bios'. |
| 15:20.39 | SpeedEvil | You don't need it for kernel dev. |
| 15:20.46 | juco | oh, great |
| 15:20.53 | aloril | juco: advanced kit has is needed if: 1) you flash wrong u-boot and brick your device 2) need JTAG for other low level development stuff 3) you want host usb cable and don't buy it elsewhere ;-) |
| 15:21.06 | pjz | SpeedEvil: ...unless you decide to mess with the flash and end up overwriting your bootloader :) |
| 15:21.13 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 15:21.14 | juco | would you mind if I updated the 1973 wiki page with this info? |
| 15:21.21 | pjz | juco: just do it! |
| 15:21.26 | SpeedEvil | juco: what info? |
| 15:21.30 | pjz | juco: but I think it's there |
| 15:21.51 | juco | hmm, I can't find it |
| 15:22.04 | juco | it would be nice if it was linked from the 1973 page |
| 15:22.36 | aloril | pjz: well.. you need to read between lines to see it in [[Neo1973]] page ;-) |
| 15:22.42 | *** join/#openmoko knutst (n=knutst@c757FBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 15:22.57 | aloril | (that getting dirty means u-boot or other low level stuff ...) |
| 15:23.21 | *** join/#openmoko keithp (n=keithp@home.keithp.com) |
| 15:23.23 | SpeedEvil | Oh - I've added it |
| 15:23.37 | juco | ha someone just added it |
| 15:23.49 | juco | I see |
| 15:23.50 | juco | ok |
| 15:24.41 | juco | thanks |
| 15:25.16 | juco | so what happens if someone bricks a device? |
| 15:25.23 | juco | and doesn't have the debug board |
| 15:25.26 | aloril | SpeedEvil: or maybe advanced kernel hacking (which most kernel hackers won't be doing I guess) |
| 15:25.45 | aloril | juco: then you find somebody with debug board ;-) |
| 15:26.02 | summatusmentis | WTF KIND OF DATA PLAN IS $65 FOR UNLIMITED ACCESS????? |
| 15:26.19 | guaqua | i have 10 euros/month for unlimited data |
| 15:26.44 | summatusmentis | guaqua: yeah, $65 + whatever voice costs! |
| 15:26.46 | aloril | juco: should not happen as long as you either: 1) don't flash u-boot 2) make absolutely sure you flash right one |
| 15:27.23 | juco | aloril, I just assumed that new u-boot versions would come out that I will want to flash |
| 15:27.31 | juco | perhaps it is simple enough that that is unlikely? |
| 15:27.47 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 15:28.12 | aloril | hmm I think recent u-boot has some kind of check for 'wrong version' |
| 15:28.13 | juco | summatusmentis, you can get unlimited data with at&t for $20/month |
| 15:28.14 | SpeedEvil | It's unlikely. |
| 15:28.19 | summatusmentis | wait... that's w/ a data card... I don't WANT a data card |
| 15:28.20 | Sup3rkiddo | juco, afaik, uboot should be upgraded only if something goes wrong..very very wrong...if aint broke dont fix it :) |
| 15:28.21 | juco | cool |
| 15:28.24 | SpeedEvil | How often do you upgrade your PC BIOS. |
| 15:28.35 | SpeedEvil | And you can upgrade u-boot. |
| 15:28.44 | summatusmentis | juco: but where I'm gonna be at&t roams, it's western MN, 850MHz range |
| 15:28.44 | SpeedEvil | It's just if it goes wrong, you need the debug board. |
| 15:28.47 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@rrcs-67-52-219-78.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 15:28.52 | *** part/#openmoko knutst (n=knutst@c757FBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 15:28.53 | SpeedEvil | Or to send to someone with |
| 15:29.06 | juco | summatusmentis, at&t should have nationwide coverage without roaming on the 850 band |
| 15:29.09 | aloril | anyway, I have seen in this channel and ML surprisingly often people flashing wrong u-boot .. (and I'm talking about people that know their stuff) |
| 15:29.09 | *** join/#openmoko schurig (n=schurig@pD95F8F37.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:29.12 | *** join/#openmoko knutst (n=knutst@c757FBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 15:29.30 | summatusmentis | juco: ok, I guess that's true... hrm... |
| 15:29.43 | SpeedEvil | aloril: I don't see that it's needed for any kernel hacking - it might be a nice add-on, but it's not needed anymore than you need JTAG access to your PC. |
| 15:29.45 | juco | the $20 is with a contract though |
| 15:29.52 | juco | and their voice contracts are rather pricey |
| 15:29.55 | Sup3rkiddo | any rumours regarding warranty and stuff?, |
| 15:30.15 | aloril | SpeedEvil: not really needed, but I have seen claims that on some level stuff it helps |
| 15:30.17 | SpeedEvil | Best here (uk) is around $(us)48/mo |
| 15:31.06 | SpeedEvil | With 1G/mo fair use limit |
| 15:31.51 | juco | I don't think any carrier in the US announces the limits on their "unlimited" plans |
| 15:32.02 | summatusmentis | juco: that's the SmartPhone connect plan right? |
| 15:32.11 | juco | yeah |
| 15:32.16 | SpeedEvil | In the UK they tend to spell it out. |
| 15:32.29 | juco | probably something to do with truth in advertising |
| 15:32.38 | SpeedEvil | If only because a recent decision from the Advertising Standards Agency has implications for them if they don't. |
| 15:32.42 | thomasg__ | in germany you can get unlimted traffic (data only) for about $US60 |
| 15:32.51 | summatusmentis | juco: will they let me sign up for the SmartPhone plan, if the phone I get through them isn't a smartphone? or can I just bring my neo there and be like, this is the phone I want to use |
| 15:32.55 | Q_Continuum | juco: Verizon got slammed for their hidden 5GB limit, Sprint doesn't have one, not sure about the rest. |
| 15:33.07 | SpeedEvil | Namely that 'unlimited' can mean limited - if there are additional terms and conditions. |
| 15:33.08 | thomasg__ | but this $60 means you also have umts with hsdpa 3.6 mbit |
| 15:33.16 | juco | summatusmentis, you don't need a "smart phone" |
| 15:33.20 | thomasg__ | and it is really unlimited :) |
| 15:33.22 | juco | you can get a voice contract with no data |
| 15:33.42 | juco | and then add the $20/month "media connect unlimited" |
| 15:33.44 | zipola | Big news today, whoa. Cheered me up in the morning. |
| 15:33.47 | SpeedEvil | thomasg__: is it in fact unlimited though. I think you will find they get upset if you max it out 24*7 |
| 15:34.10 | summatusmentis | juco: can that then be used for tethering? |
| 15:34.20 | thomasg__ | SpeedEvil, before a year I had a internet provider who wanted to kick me :) |
| 15:34.20 | juco | they don't have any way of checking |
| 15:34.27 | *** part/#openmoko knutst (n=knutst@c757FBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no) |
| 15:34.35 | SpeedEvil | thomasg__: interneet is a _very_ different place from mobile. |
| 15:34.41 | SpeedEvil | Mobile spectrum is _expensive_ |
| 15:34.49 | thomasg__ | I know that :) |
| 15:34.59 | juco | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:35.03 | thomasg__ | I'm working for one of the biggest mobile provider |
| 15:35.05 | juco | is $20/month |
| 15:35.08 | summatusmentis | ok cool. So I could get 450 voice and unlimited mobile data for $60, which is less than the unlimited data cost w/ the other people |
| 15:35.13 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_1aptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-210-164.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:35.18 | juco | NLIMITED: Cellular Video & MEdiaâ„¢ Net. Plus 200 Text, Video, Picture, Instant Messages (5cents/add'l). |
| 15:35.20 | summatusmentis | what does Max 200 mean? |
| 15:35.24 | summatusmentis | txt |
| 15:35.28 | juco | and mms |
| 15:35.42 | summatusmentis | ouch, only 200 txt... hrm |
| 15:36.00 | juco | $5 extra a month for unlimited with AT&T |
| 15:36.09 | juco | $10 extra a month for unlimited |
| 15:36.20 | summatusmentis | what? |
| 15:36.27 | juco | sms/mms |
| 15:36.31 | summatusmentis | oh, on at&t's network, got it |
| 15:36.42 | summatusmentis | that's what the w/ at&t meant |
| 15:36.50 | juco | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:36.53 | juco | $40/month |
| 15:37.08 | juco | so $20/month extra for unlimted messaging |
| 15:37.28 | summatusmentis | that's dumb, I'd probably just go the $10 extra... hrm |
| 15:37.35 | juco | or MEdia(TM) Max 1500 Bundle |
| 15:37.38 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Neo1973/pl]] [[Development_resources/it]] |
| 15:37.39 | juco | for $30 |
| 15:37.43 | juco | unlimited data |
| 15:37.46 | juco | 1500 messages |
| 15:37.53 | *** join/#openmoko _k-s_ (n=gustavo@205.233.52.212) |
| 15:38.09 | juco | plus the prices they quote are misleading |
| 15:38.15 | summatusmentis | misleading? how so? |
| 15:38.17 | juco | AT&T adds make believe "fees" on to your bill |
| 15:38.46 | summatusmentis | ugh :-/ |
| 15:38.53 | juco | here, I'll tell you what mine are |
| 15:39.02 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-62f695a83de16fc0) |
| 15:39.31 | summatusmentis | extra $20/month or something I'm sure |
| 15:39.46 | juco | so pay "$95" |
| 15:40.10 | juco | and they add an extra $6.63 to that |
| 15:40.21 | summatusmentis | what for? |
| 15:40.33 | juco | my wife's line, on the same plan, is $14, and they add an extra $1.67 to that |
| 15:40.40 | juco | "GOVT FEES & |
| 15:40.40 | juco | TAXES" |
| 15:40.46 | juco | is what they call it |
| 15:40.53 | juco | but it isn't |
| 15:41.16 | juco | services aren't subject to tax in my state |
| 15:41.34 | juco | so whatever they put in that column is not required, its just added by AT&T to charge more money |
| 15:42.06 | summatusmentis | :-/ |
| 15:42.35 | juco | FEDERAL UNIVERSAL SERVICE CHARGE 2.10 |
| 15:42.42 | *** join/#openmoko incinerator (n=sabine@ppp-82-135-81-239.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 15:42.43 | juco | REGULATORY COST RECOVERY CHARGE 0.20 |
| 15:42.52 | juco | TELCOM RELAY SERVICE SURCHARGE 0.11 |
| 15:43.00 | juco | STATE TELECOMMUNICATIONS SALES TAX 5.93 |
| 15:43.12 | juco | 911 SERVICE FEE 0.70 |
| 15:43.16 | summatusmentis | 911 Service fee makes sense |
| 15:43.21 | juco | so they are claiming there is sales tax |
| 15:43.23 | juco | no it doesn't |
| 15:43.37 | ruimoreir1 | does anyone here own a neo 1973 ? |
| 15:43.39 | summatusmentis | well sure, it's finding your cell |
| 15:43.40 | juco | its not like I can opt out of it |
| 15:43.41 | koen | yes, it does |
| 15:43.44 | juco | its part of the cost of the plan |
| 15:43.52 | koen | atherwise 911 is gettng DoSed by prank callers |
| 15:44.06 | juco | no, that's not for me calling it |
| 15:44.32 | summatusmentis | juco: T-Mobile is sounding better and better |
| 15:44.41 | juco | yeah |
| 15:44.46 | juco | if it is available in your area |
| 15:44.50 | juco | they won't sell it here |
| 15:44.51 | don-o | summatusmentis: i cant even find a voice+data plan on tmobile.com |
| 15:44.52 | juco | I can get it |
| 15:44.56 | juco | but I have to buy it in another state |
| 15:45.15 | juco | which means I have a long distance area code |
| 15:45.26 | summatusmentis | see, the thing is, nothing is directly available in the area where i'll be |
| 15:45.37 | guaqua | i thought i was getting screwed by my telco, but i guess this is nothing compared to the stuff you have over there :D |
| 15:45.37 | don-o | juco: arent areacodes pretty much meaningless now? i never think of local/longdistance anymore |
| 15:45.39 | summatusmentis | it's available 3 hours away, in the same state, but not in that ara |
| 15:45.51 | summatusmentis | don-o: on a cell, yeah |
| 15:45.51 | hrw|gone | have a nice evening guys |
| 15:45.52 | juco | ah |
| 15:45.58 | summatusmentis | bye hrw|gone |
| 15:46.07 | juco | guaqua, you think US cell phone companies are bad, you should see landlines |
| 15:46.20 | guaqua | :S |
| 15:46.36 | summatusmentis | unlimited web on T-mobile phone, $6 http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/addons/services/TZonesGroup.aspx?osid=28037040-D2E8-4498-88D8-5B71D32E9BBF&tp=Svc_Tab_TZones&tsp=Svc_Sub_WebApps |
| 15:47.09 | juco | yeah, you can't use that with a neo |
| 15:47.16 | paulproteus | I saw that. I just switched to T-Mobile. |
| 15:47.20 | juco | its through a special proxy |
| 15:47.30 | paulproteus | I read that you can just use the proxy if you have the info. |
| 15:47.32 | juco | you might be able to get the neo to work with it |
| 15:47.35 | paulproteus | I don't recall the URL. |
| 15:47.42 | juco | yeah, it might work |
| 15:47.45 | paulproteus | (that made such a claim that you can just use the proxy) |
| 15:48.52 | juco | oh, cool |
| 15:49.08 | juco | t-mobile us does seem to have good plans |
| 15:49.17 | juco | better than the big carriers |
| 15:49.34 | juco | and I believe they use the at&t towers for nationwide service |
| 15:49.54 | ewon | excellent, GTA02 will be out nicely in time for my move to the US |
| 15:49.58 | ewon | \o/ |
| 15:50.06 | LetoTo | hmm, to buy the non-wifi one or not.....argh |
| 15:50.26 | ewon | I'm going to wait for the wifi one |
| 15:50.39 | ewon | especially if it has an atheros chipset that can do packet injection :) |
| 15:50.53 | thomasg__ | I whish t-mobile germany's services was as cheap as t-mobile us' are |
| 15:52.08 | summatusmentis | paulproteus: looking for proxy info? http://wiki.howardforums.com/index.php/T-Mobile_Data |
| 15:54.06 | summatusmentis | juco: the other option is the blackberry plan w/ tmobile, which apparently can be used on a dif. device |
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| 15:58.14 | Q_Continuum | niiiice |
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| 15:59.13 | Sup3rkiddo | oo |
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| 16:00.00 | Q_Continuum | yaaay netsplit |
| 16:00.00 | Q_Continuum | welcome back people |
| 16:00.00 | Sup3rkiddo | does anyone have a neo with them, want to check if a piece of code works? |
| 16:00.03 | Sup3rkiddo | s/?/. |
| 16:00.35 | Q_Continuum | no, I don't get mine til that batch of 400 or 600 ships :( |
| 16:01.09 | summatusmentis | Sup3rkiddo: there are some devs around, I don't know if they'll want to test or not though |
| 16:01.32 | summatusmentis | I love surviving netsplits |
| 16:01.36 | Sup3rkiddo | summatusmentis, no point in pestering em really |
| 16:02.14 | summatusmentis | Sup3rkiddo: the devs are the only one's who'll have one yet. They aren't available for general sale until Jul. 9 |
| 16:02.58 | Sup3rkiddo | summatusmentis, ah ok..i was thinking some lucky blokes outside the core team got their machines as well |
| 16:03.11 | daxxar | mjr: Oh, right. Does the controller do it? (the sd-flash controller) |
| 16:03.28 | summatusmentis | juco, paulproteus: looking at that... I wonder if someone needs to pay money for anything more than the $6/mo thing on tmobile |
| 16:03.58 | summatusmentis | Sup3rkiddo: well, anyone who's been doing major dev work got a free moko. |
| 16:04.06 | summatusmentis | but other than that, noone has one |
| 16:04.26 | Sup3rkiddo | yeah so logically some of them might be free ;) |
| 16:05.06 | summatusmentis | Sup3rkiddo: I don't follow your logic... |
| 16:05.37 | Sup3rkiddo | summatusmentis, never mind..that *was* a bad logic...half asleep here |
| 16:06.03 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-184-057.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:06.21 | summatusmentis | lol, ok |
| 16:06.53 | Sup3rkiddo | summatusmentis, have you by any chance been playing with libgsmd code? |
| 16:08.05 | summatusmentis | Sup3rkiddo: nope, not really a coder |
| 16:08.25 | mmp | mickeyl: hello, I'm just curious, the video playing in "Moko Ninjustu" video - what was format of the video being played? |
| 16:08.27 | holtmann | lrg: ping |
| 16:08.52 | mmp | (although the real question is whether re-encoding the video can't help neo to perform better) |
| 16:08.52 | Sup3rkiddo | summatusmentis, hmm ok...i call myself a coder over here |
| 16:09.24 | summatusmentis | Sup3rkiddo: I do some minimal coding, but I have no background at all |
| 16:10.08 | Sup3rkiddo | :) |
| 16:10.13 | *** join/#openmoko gcb77 (n=gbarta@67.96.209.70) |
| 16:12.12 | lrg | holtmann: pong |
| 16:12.51 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 16:14.36 | holtmann | lrg: About the Codec<->Bluetooth interaction. Still not getting this working. |
| 16:15.47 | lrg | holtmann: can you send me a codec register dump when you give it a try next. sys/devices/platform/soc-audio/codec_reg. |
| 16:17.42 | lrg | holtmann: best to email it as I'll need to send to XorA |
| 16:19.30 | Sup3rkiddo | can any one enlighten me if this piece of code will work, it build fine and installs fine, but i want to know if it will work..http://rafb.net/p/rffQPU31.html thanks |
| 16:19.36 | Sup3rkiddo | *builds |
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| 16:22.18 | holtmann | lrg: Will take some time to get the headset application up and running again. Anything you tell from the current settings without the running software. Or what I should look out for. |
| 16:24.34 | paulproteus | summatusmentis, You mean, doing VoIP over their proxy? |
| 16:24.37 | BlackFog | bye * |
| 16:24.55 | summatusmentis | paulproteus: no, just data in general |
| 16:25.02 | paulproteus | summatusmentis, Oh, okay. |
| 16:25.05 | lrg | holtmann: it's hard to tell atm as I don't have access to a BT headset, I think it's probably one of the following:- wrong codec path, voice DAI not setup, BT not sending PCM in expected format, |
| 16:25.15 | paulproteus | Yeah, I think I might go try that in a couple of weeks, summatusmentis! |
| 16:25.22 | summatusmentis | obviously you'd have to pay voice, but if you're just paying the $6 for the proxy data... |
| 16:25.29 | summatusmentis | paulproteus: I'll be interested to see if it workd |
| 16:25.31 | summatusmentis | works* |
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| 16:25.41 | lrg | holtmann: I'll be able to compare the reg dump against my expected values. |
| 16:27.02 | holtmann | Is it enough to call alstctl -f /etc/alsa/stereoout.state restore and the the difference. |
| 16:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 16:27.33 | ninHer | hi all |
| 16:27.54 | lrg | holtmann: I'm not 00% sure as XorA wrote all the state files. He's back in tomorrow |
| 16:27.58 | lrg | 100% |
| 16:28.49 | holtmann | Can you remind him to get me a state file for routing either microphone or speaker to the PCM line of the Bluetooth chip. This would help with testing since I don't have a unit with a valid GSM SIM with me. |
| 16:29.34 | lrg | holtmann: will do |
| 16:29.46 | paulproteus | holtmann, If you want I can mail you a SIM for either Vodafone in Italy or Orange in the UK. |
| 16:29.56 | paulproteus | (I was just in both countries for a few days and bought SIMs but am now back in the US.) |
| 16:30.47 | holtmann | I would need one for Canada currently. However debugging with the speaker or microphone is simpler since I don't need a working GSM subsystem. |
| 16:31.29 | ewon | in Ireland can pick up a pay-as-you-go sim card for 10eur or so, in some cases free, is such a thing not available in Canada? |
| 16:31.47 | paulproteus | holtmann, It's likely that the Vodafone SIM will work since it worked for me in the US (it picked up T-Mobile as roaming), but if you don't need it then no worries. |
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| 16:44.26 | Basheri | Is there 3g in openmoko? |
| 16:44.57 | don-o | is there (gsm)3g in the USA? |
| 16:45.22 | Basheri | dunno |
| 16:45.46 | paulproteus | Anyone feel like helping me understand a phone Internet (non-OpenMoko) thing? |
| 16:46.29 | don-o | Basheri: i think you're more likely to get an answer if you ask about GPRS("2g") and EDGE ("2.5g") |
| 16:47.02 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 16:47.17 | Basheri | so no 3g i assume ::PP |
| 16:47.32 | guaqua | paulproteus: ? |
| 16:47.43 | don-o | Basheri: seeing as how we cant even answer what 3G is, it doesnt make sense to ask if the neo has it. :) |
| 16:47.43 | Basheri | Well that sucks =( |
| 16:48.09 | Basheri | :DDDD |
| 16:48.15 | paulproteus | Basheri, iirc T-Mobile was going to unveil some faster Internet access over GSM but I don't recall the details. |
| 16:48.51 | paulproteus | guaqua, I just signed up for T-MobileWeb (this $6/mo proxied Internet access) and my Motorola V180 has a USB cable, and it creates /dev/ttyACM0 when I plug it in. If I "dial" as per http://wiki.howardforums.com/index.php/Tether_with_Linux , would that be using my phone as a modem (sounds like a bad idea) or would it use my existing Internet access (sounds like a good idea)? |
| 16:49.18 | guaqua | depends on how you route it |
| 16:49.36 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 16:50.18 | Basheri | here (in finland) is quite nice 3g-network |
| 16:50.35 | Basheri | well, it's getting better and better |
| 16:50.40 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 16:51.06 | ewon | Ireland has reasonable 3G coverage, but is murderously expensive |
| 16:51.09 | guaqua | if the phones just were cheaper |
| 16:51.17 | don-o | ewon: what sort of "3G"? |
| 16:51.33 | ewon | don-o: good question - EDGE I think |
| 16:51.45 | Basheri | UMTS here <3 |
| 16:52.10 | Basheri | and very reasonable prices |
| 16:52.26 | summatusmentis | paulproteus: looking at that tutorial, it looks as though you setup where you're dialing to |
| 16:52.52 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:53.27 | don-o | "To alleviate this confusion and to highlight the backward compatibility of the system with second generation GSM, the GSM Association now refers to the range of high-speed multimedia services that can be delivered to users via mobile networks using UMTS/W-CDMA systems such as 3GSM, rather than simply the air interface technology." (gsmworld.com) |
| 16:54.40 | summatusmentis | don-o: neither of which are available in the US except in extremely popluated areas |
| 16:54.51 | Basheri | i would very much like to see UMTS support in moko/neo |
| 16:55.05 | summatusmentis | Basheri: afaik, there are no plans for UMTS in the neo |
| 16:55.18 | Basheri | =( |
| 16:55.18 | guaqua | it's expensive to build umts into a phone |
| 16:55.25 | Basheri | true |
| 16:55.37 | Basheri | fair enough |
| 16:55.58 | ewon | how much bandwidth do you need on a phone? |
| 16:55.59 | LuitvD | expensive to ship phones that support it, yes (stupid patents/royalties) |
| 16:56.09 | LuitvD | ewon: really depends |
| 16:56.30 | ewon | personally, anything that has enough bw to ensure smooth web browsing and ssh is enough - although people will probably want vid streaming etc as well |
| 16:56.34 | guaqua | i'd be happy with |
| 16:56.37 | guaqua | 512 kbps |
| 16:56.49 | guaqua | that's enough for any streaming video |
| 16:56.49 | ewon | although I've yet to see a 3G connection in ireland with latency of <100ms |
| 16:56.50 | LuitvD | ewon: you'd need edge at least |
| 16:56.57 | ewon | so ssh can get laggy |
| 16:57.05 | summatusmentis | is there even going to be EDGE available in the neo? |
| 16:57.18 | mmp | summatusmentis: once, yes |
| 16:57.31 | summatusmentis | mmp: what? once? |
| 16:57.32 | Basheri | max. 2 Mbit/s 54,90 €/kk** |
| 16:57.33 | Basheri | :DDD |
| 16:58.04 | LuitvD | Basheri: expensive :| |
| 16:58.09 | Basheri | indeed |
| 16:58.26 | LuitvD | €/kk** ? |
| 16:58.32 | guaqua | per month |
| 16:58.35 | Cairdazar | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8574715471341709984&q=openmoko&total=12&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1 |
| 16:58.35 | Cairdazar | @ 52:50, we are defently going 3g =D |
| 16:58.42 | mmp | summatusmentis: I believe I read something about it... |
| 16:58.50 | mmp | just can't find it right now... |
| 16:58.54 | *** join/#openmoko Korken (n=Korken@90-228-252-246-no13.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 16:58.55 | LuitvD | guaqua: how is 'kk' 'per month' then? :P |
| 16:59.17 | guaqua | kk is an abbreviation for kuukausi, which translates to month in english |
| 16:59.19 | mmp | summatusmentis: but I'm not sure whether it wasn't UMTS... |
| 16:59.34 | LuitvD | guaqua: thnx for the info :) |
| 16:59.35 | summatusmentis | mmp: I didn't think there was gonna be anything above GPRS in the neo |
| 16:59.56 | guaqua | there isn't in neo 1973 |
| 17:00.07 | mmp | summatusmentis: don't take my words too seriously, though:) |
| 17:00.20 | summatusmentis | mmp: :-P |
| 17:00.38 | mmp | In next hw revisions, maybe... |
| 17:00.47 | LuitvD | maybe in GTA02 |
| 17:00.51 | LuitvD | but still uncertain |
| 17:01.07 | LuitvD | there was a plan to go EDGE in P2 or P1.5 |
| 17:01.07 | guaqua | err? |
| 17:01.08 | mmp | summatusmentis: ahh, that was 3g what I read about... |
| 17:01.30 | LuitvD | too bad EDGE is useless here |
| 17:01.33 | LuitvD | (netherlands) |
| 17:01.43 | thomasg__ | well, umts is useless in many countries, too |
| 17:01.55 | thomasg__ | in some also gsm is :) |
| 17:02.01 | mmp | GPRS failsafe can save a day, though:) |
| 17:02.32 | summatusmentis | GPRS isn't gonna be fast enough for much more than web right? |
| 17:02.51 | thomasg__ | thats correct |
| 17:02.56 | guaqua | it's not even fast enough for normal web, really |
| 17:02.57 | cjb | you think GPRS is fast enough for Web? :) |
| 17:03.05 | thomasg__ | gprs class 13 is ok for web |
| 17:03.06 | *** join/#openmoko balrog-kun (i=balrog@174-mo5-1.acn.waw.pl) |
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| 17:03.17 | thomasg__ | used it for years (gprs class 8) |
| 17:03.17 | summatusmentis | cjb: idk, I'm on cdma 1x right now |
| 17:03.39 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 17:04.12 | thomasg__ | the best speed possible is about 1xisdn (about 60 kbit/s) |
| 17:04.23 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-8-211.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 17:04.40 | thomasg__ | in many countries 40 kbit/s might be the maximum |
| 17:04.54 | ewon | the j2me ssh client I have reponds quick enough |
| 17:04.55 | Basheri | :F |
| 17:05.02 | ewon | for emergency hacking, at least |
| 17:05.23 | thomasg__ | I own some symbian devices and use s2putty, its very usable |
| 17:05.45 | ewon | what are my chances of convincing FIC to put in a slidy keyboard into GTA02? |
| 17:05.52 | ewon | ala the HTC devices |
| 17:06.07 | guaqua | GTA02 is the customer Neo |
| 17:06.17 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 17:06.17 | guaqua | and it's the same case as the current dev models |
| 17:06.23 | Korken | Hi! I'm an experienced software developer for Linux (mostly Ubuntu/Kubuntu) and I wish to help making apps for the phone. My question is; Where do I start? I mean who should I contact? I haven't worked in any projects as is say on the page but can I still help making apps for it? Thanks! |
| 17:06.24 | aloril | Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (link to FAQ in wiki) |
| 17:06.27 | PBeck | hi |
| 17:06.29 | Basheri | exastra: same as mine convincing thet to put HDSPA in it ;) |
| 17:06.35 | Basheri | *ewon |
| 17:06.44 | Basheri | *them |
| 17:06.59 | guaqua | Korken: just start :) |
| 17:07.00 | thomasg__ | I would spend 150 extra dollars for having hsdpa phase3 in the neo :) |
| 17:07.21 | guaqua | Korken: hack on the stuff you find interesting and see if someone is already doing it |
| 17:07.26 | Basheri | thomasg__: same here |
| 17:07.30 | Korken | Is it just to get the development phone for $450 and start? |
| 17:07.32 | guaqua | Korken: projects.openmoko.org or something |
| 17:07.35 | SpeedEvil | $300 |
| 17:07.39 | aristos_achaion | Hi--I'm having trouble using MokoMakeFile to set up qemu--I'm running Ubuntu 7.04, and getting the following error every time I try to "make qemu": http://paste.debian.net/31605 |
| 17:07.44 | SpeedEvil | you don't need the full package generally. |
| 17:07.51 | guaqua | you don't even need the phone... |
| 17:07.55 | SpeedEvil | Well - you _can_ develop simply using emulator for $0 |
| 17:08.18 | thomasg__ | need qemu for gcc4. dont want to compile gcc3 here :) |
| 17:08.38 | Korken | I have tried the emulator for some time and now I wish to test it on the phone. :) |
| 17:08.44 | thresh | qemu crashed a lot when i built it with gcc4 |
| 17:09.02 | balrog-kun | aristos_achaion: is DISPLAY set? |
| 17:09.12 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@xdsl-213-196-245-231.netcologne.de) |
| 17:09.14 | balrog-kun | thresh: strange, it isn't supposed to run at all |
| 17:09.30 | thresh | balrog-kun: there are patches lying around enabling to build it with gcc4 |
| 17:09.44 | thomasg__ | hope that there are enough phones for all who want to have one. I could imagine, that all 1000 devices will be sold directly at the 9th |
| 17:09.50 | aristos_achaion | balrog-kun: DISPLAY doesn't appear to be. |
| 17:10.01 | balrog-kun | thresh: ah yes, i think debian has them in by default, but they have a couple of drawbacks (beside being unstable) |
| 17:10.20 | balrog-kun | aristos_achaion: set it :) |
| 17:10.48 | aristos_achaion | balrog-kun: this'll display my n00bness, but, set it to what? |
| 17:11.13 | Korken | But thanks guys/gals! I thought I needed to be in a group or something to develop for it but it seems like I don't need to. Thanks for the info! |
| 17:11.17 | balrog-kun | aristos_achaion: are you in X right now? are you running this in a terminal? |
| 17:11.40 | aristos_achaion | balrog-kun: I'm in X, running in gnome-terminal |
| 17:12.11 | balrog-kun | aristos_achaion: hmm, then DISPLAY should be already set ("echo $DISPLAY" should confirm that by printing ":0") |
| 17:12.24 | balrog-kun | aristos_achaion: this may mean the SDL was compiled without X support |
| 17:13.07 | aristos_achaion | balrog-kun: You'd think that this'd be a more common complaint, then--I can't find this error message documented elsewhere. |
| 17:13.33 | aristos_achaion | balrog-kun: "echo $DISPLAY" definitely just returns a blank line |
| 17:14.58 | balrog-kun | aristos_achaion: well, it is commong but it's not qemu related, it may be documented but if it is, then not in qemu docs, rather in SDL or X docs |
| 17:15.14 | balrog-kun | aristos_achaion: try runnign "export DISPLAY=:0" and then qemu again |
| 17:15.43 | Basheri | Keep the hsdpa in mind! --> |
| 17:15.43 | aristos_achaion | balrog-kun: just tried that, same error. |
| 17:15.59 | balrog-kun | aristos_achaion: if you run "xclock" does it run? |
| 17:16.07 | balrog-kun | in the same terminal |
| 17:16.24 | aristos_achaion | Nope. |
| 17:16.52 | balrog-kun | does it say anything? like "couldn't open display"? |
| 17:16.55 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AFFA2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:17.46 | aristos_achaion | balrog-kun: not much: http://paste.debian.net/31607 |
| 17:18.10 | balrog-kun | aristos_achaion: are you running as root by any chance? |
| 17:18.41 | don-o | what version of automake does openmoko like? |
| 17:18.54 | don-o | my system is missing Automake/Struct.pm |
| 17:19.13 | aristos_achaion | balrog-kun: no, but I am an idiot--I was running su'ed into a different non-root account |
| 17:19.51 | balrog-kun | aristos_achaion: ah ok, then it's the permissions issue (same as if you were running as root) |
| 17:20.09 | Basheri | edit: Keep the hdspa in mind! now really --> |
| 17:20.12 | aristos_achaion | balrog-kun: Thanks. I feel dumb now. |
| 17:20.26 | balrog-kun | aristos_achaion: you need to run "xhost +" as your normal user to be able to run qemu su'ed |
| 17:20.54 | aristos_achaion | balrog-kun: Thanks! |
| 17:25.57 | paulproteus | aristos_achaion, balrog-kun, But it's better to use "sux" with is "su with X", or gksudo - both of those grant X permissions securely. |
| 17:26.08 | paulproteus | xhost + disables X authentication entirely! |
| 17:26.33 | Basheri | hdspa is an important question and should not be forgotten... And NOW -> |
| 17:26.52 | balrog-kun | well, right, xhost + is risky |
| 17:27.16 | SpeedEvil | Basically - everyone wants whatever faster/better phone tech is in their area Basheri, this is assumed. |
| 17:27.32 | SpeedEvil | There are several different models that'd be needed worldwide to do that though. |
| 17:27.50 | paulproteus | balrog-kun, Just use "gksu" and it'll be not risky. |
| 17:28.26 | balrog-kun | paulproteus: i can take some risk :) |
| 17:28.27 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host158-124-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:31.14 | Basheri | SpeedEvil: true, but i'm quite sure that umts will spread more and more and even usa will find it =) |
| 17:33.37 | SpeedEvil | Then there is the issue of frequencies. |
| 17:35.13 | Basheri | ok, ok :P I don't understand too much about these things... Just asked if there'd be hdspa in neo |
| 17:37.12 | Basheri | but it's nice to see that my question/idea didn't get ignored ^^ |
| 17:37.19 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 17:37.51 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (i=muciipec@p54953006.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:38.04 | guaqua | answers depend on the way the questions are phrased |
| 17:38.37 | Basheri | indeed |
| 17:38.46 | drath | well, would be rather bad if there was no correlation between a question and its answer :) |
| 17:39.43 | guaqua | what i meant was... |
| 17:39.52 | drath | heh, yeah, i know what you meant |
| 17:40.35 | drath | not sure how the saying goes in english |
| 17:41.12 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:43.10 | guaqua | yes, well :) |
| 17:46.12 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 17:48.18 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Disassembling_Neo1973]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] |
| 17:52.08 | SpeedEvil | Prolly. |
| 17:52.22 | SpeedEvil | OTOH - $150 isn't that much for many people. |
| 17:53.07 | aloril2 | yeah, but advanced versions might run out fast ;-) |
| 17:53.08 | *** join/#openmoko unique (n=chatzill@ip43071.stuwe.fh-schmalkalden.de) |
| 17:53.17 | SpeedEvil | Ah :) |
| 17:53.19 | Stephmw | I won't be needing one, I'll spend my extra $150 on some more camera gear |
| 17:53.41 | Stephmw | aloril2: you can have my advanced version :) |
| 17:54.36 | koen | Stephmw: that's like 1/10 L lens :) |
| 17:55.50 | thomasg__ | erm, sean was talking about micro-usb in his announcement. will it really be micro-usb or will it stay mini-usb? |
| 17:56.11 | aloril2 | also some might think $300 version is enough cheap, but think they need $450 version which they consider too expensive |
| 17:57.07 | Stephmw | koen: every little bit helps |
| 17:57.26 | dottedmag | aloril2: hey, it's cheaper than nokia n800 :) |
| 17:57.48 | Stephmw | aloril2: right. They should do a Vertu-like version at $8000 |
| 17:57.50 | thomasg__ | it's cheaper than every other smartphone out there |
| 17:58.19 | thomasg__ | well, I'd really like a stainless-steel housing, but guess thats too expensive |
| 17:58.49 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 17:59.19 | drath | imho the only problem with the GTA01 is that there's hardly an use for it once GTA02 is out... |
| 17:59.23 | drath | the price is certainly more than fair |
| 17:59.33 | Stephmw | thomasg__: it'd be interesting to hack a Nokia for instance, to fit the OpenMoko hw into it ;) |
| 17:59.49 | don-o | drath: uh, i still use my black and white cellphone and it'll still be useful after tomorrow when the iPhone comes out . :) |
| 18:00.12 | don-o | s/black and white/monochrome/ |
| 18:00.37 | thomasg__ | Stephmw, Ill gonna see how small a alu-housing for the neo could be, maybe I can someone let build one |
| 18:00.38 | don-o | s/monochrome cellphone/plastic rocketry set/ |
| 18:00.39 | SpeedEvil | I could make you a stainless case thomasg__. |
| 18:00.48 | guaqua | drath: there are all sorts of other use cases for gta01 |
| 18:00.49 | don-o | drat. didnt work the second time :( |
| 18:00.49 | Stephmw | don-o: operators have found ways in the past of obsoleting old monochrome phones |
| 18:00.55 | thomasg__ | SpeedEvil, how expensive? :) |
| 18:00.58 | SpeedEvil | But - the cellular reception may be poor. |
| 18:00.59 | Stephmw | don-o: usually by issuing incompatible simcards |
| 18:01.02 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 18:01.07 | guaqua | drath: for example navigation etc |
| 18:01.10 | drath | guaqua: but those usescases should be worth $300 to you |
| 18:01.18 | don-o | Stephmw: hmm. well this ericsson t39 keeps on ticking. it just wont die. |
| 18:01.28 | guaqua | drath: true that |
| 18:01.42 | Stephmw | koen: plenty of brushed alu phones out there |
| 18:01.42 | SpeedEvil | thomasg__: probably $300ish or so - it's a moderately annoying shape to do in ones. |
| 18:01.49 | Stephmw | koen: it's a question of coverage and thickness |
| 18:02.09 | Stephmw | koen: the vertu phone casings are moslt precious metals for instance |
| 18:02.10 | koen | Stephmw: I remember the first alu powerbooks with piss poor wifi + bluetooth |
| 18:02.39 | Stephmw | koen: oh, of course... but we've learned from those mistakes, right? |
| 18:02.51 | koen | wanna bet? |
| 18:03.21 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 18:03.22 | Stephmw | errr, no? |
| 18:05.21 | *** join/#openmoko MDK (n=mdk@cs181222091.pp.htv.fi) |
| 18:06.39 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AFFA2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:06.46 | thomasg__ | can sb answer my micro/mini-usb question? |
| 18:06.59 | thomasg__ | this: sean was talking about micro-usb in his announcement. will it really be micro-usb or will it stay mini-usb? |
| 18:08.02 | mjr | I bet it was a typo (/braino) |
| 18:08.25 | mjr | since he talked microusb in Basic set right after mentioning microSD, but talked mini-usb in the Advanced set |
| 18:09.22 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 18:09.59 | don-o | whoho. the moko build-train is back on the tracks and compiling for who knows how many more hours. |
| 18:10.23 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-d2f9ccb09630ac10) |
| 18:14.22 | gcb77 | I still can't get past the ltrace configure problem :( |
| 18:14.36 | gcb77 | Must be since I'm running openSUSE 10.2 |
| 18:17.51 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 18:17.53 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@p5481F999.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:17.59 | Elrond | What is micro-usb? |
| 18:18.19 | thomasg__ | a new usb-standard |
| 18:18.34 | summatusmentis | as far as I can tell micro == mini w/ reinforced casing |
| 18:18.46 | thomasg__ | the plug is about 2.5 millimeteres wide |
| 18:19.43 | Elrond | Ahh well. |
| 18:20.04 | _buz | microusb deprecates miniusb from what i understand |
| 18:20.23 | thomasg__ | nokia announced their coming phones with micro-usb. here's a rendering where you can see it: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/06/6500.jpg |
| 18:20.46 | thomasg__ | the phone is about 9.5mm thick |
| 18:21.48 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADB109.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:21.58 | summatusmentis | the little slot at the bottom is micro? |
| 18:22.05 | Elrond | yuck. |
| 18:22.23 | summatusmentis | that phone looks like it's got ubuntu on it |
| 18:22.28 | thomasg__ | hehe |
| 18:22.39 | Elrond | _buz - If it deprecates it, I hope it'll be as mechanically robust (or more) as mini, then. |
| 18:22.51 | thomasg__ | could get my 2nd phone besides the neo |
| 18:23.17 | _buz | iirc they want to get rid of mini ASAP to avoid confusion |
| 18:23.18 | summatusmentis | Elrond: I think the point of micro usb is supposed to be made out of a higher quality metal, being more robust |
| 18:23.33 | thomasg__ | Elrond, imho it will be (as far the size allows). all usb connectors was very robust |
| 18:23.43 | summatusmentis | _buz: confusion between a and b? or between mini and micro? |
| 18:23.48 | Stephmw | Elrond: micro feels much more 'secure' when it's plugged in |
| 18:23.50 | _buz | mini and micro |
| 18:24.05 | pjz | are there electrical specs on micro? |
| 18:24.12 | pjz | will it still supply power? |
| 18:24.19 | Stephmw | I believe so |
| 18:24.21 | _buz | i hope so, would be pretty useless without |
| 18:24.46 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 18:24.49 | pjz | one reason I like mini-usb is that it means no more incompatible chargers |
| 18:24.55 | Elrond | I doubt mini will go away soon. |
| 18:25.08 | Elrond | So the confusion will be expectable. |
| 18:25.09 | empty_mind | counter |
| 18:25.09 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T13:46) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 3 days 17:34:50 (10.733±1.0 days) (1638;242) |
| 18:25.23 | Stephmw | summatusmentis: no, the slot at the bottom isn't the micro usb |
| 18:25.43 | Stephmw | summatusmentis: that's at the top |
| 18:25.58 | summatusmentis | Stephmw: oh, ok |
| 18:26.11 | Stephmw | summatusmentis: it's thicker brother, the 6500 Slide is the same |
| 18:26.47 | Stephmw | and both are S40 devices, Java expandability only. |
| 18:26.52 | summatusmentis | I see |
| 18:27.05 | summatusmentis | Stephmw: I've got a 6265i that's only got java |
| 18:28.14 | Stephmw | summatusmentis: looks like a S40 one too |
| 18:29.16 | summatusmentis | Stephmw: I don't know... it's probably the best phone I've ever had(out of 2, this and a Razr V3m w/ VZW) |
| 18:30.12 | Stephmw | summatusmentis: yeah, it's S40. I'm not surprised you like it, S40 is much more stable than S60 |
| 18:31.26 | summatusmentis | not familiar with S60 at all, but it's a solid phone definitely |
| 18:31.27 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.54) |
| 18:33.53 | happycube | i think there'll still be use cases for gta01... lots of embedded stuff i bet |
| 18:34.02 | ynezz | if you're used to restarts from windows, than s60 is right choice :p |
| 18:34.06 | happycube | lol |
| 18:34.16 | summatusmentis | ynezz: nope, linux here :-) |
| 18:35.30 | *** join/#openmoko Thomaschaaf (n=Thomasch@p548577F1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:35.36 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:35.43 | Thomaschaaf | Hi is anyone using the phone yet? |
| 18:35.43 | aloril | Thomaschaaf: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 18:36.31 | Thomaschaaf | And can you really call with it? |
| 18:36.47 | don-o | Thomaschaaf: is there an apple store that is at friday 6pm? |
| 18:37.06 | don-o | Thomaschaaf: were close but not that close and theyre arent that many timezones. :) |
| 18:37.23 | summatusmentis | Thomaschaaf: you can really call with it, yes. Noone but the devs has it yet |
| 18:37.43 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 18:38.22 | Stephmw | ynezz: haha |
| 18:38.36 | Stephmw | ynezz: S60 just feels like a beta OS to me... |
| 18:38.46 | ynezz | i agree |
| 18:39.02 | Stephmw | dunno if it's architecture or QA |
| 18:39.55 | Thomaschaaf | I live in Europe.. so the iPhone is nothing for me |
| 18:40.16 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@205.233.53.236) |
| 18:40.18 | zell1983 | the iphone is nothing everywhere, it's only hype :D |
| 18:40.29 | Thomaschaaf | I dont like apples :D |
| 18:40.44 | Thomaschaaf | Both the Company and the fruit |
| 18:41.35 | zell1983 | me too |
| 18:41.57 | Thomaschaaf | I bet I'm gonna get beaten now.. but I am a big Vista fan |
| 18:42.27 | Thomaschaaf | But I like linux as well.. but more for servers altough asp is pretty good.. |
| 18:42.34 | bartel | Thomaschaaf: ? |
| 18:42.50 | Thomaschaaf | hehe :D |
| 18:43.15 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 18:43.18 | bartel | you dont like apple but you like MS? |
| 18:43.34 | bartel | !brainwashed |
| 18:43.39 | Thomaschaaf | hehe :D |
| 18:44.17 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 18:44.17 | Thomaschaaf | I dont like that apple makes you buy their hardware.. |
| 18:44.33 | Thomaschaaf | I want to have my own choice of hardware.. |
| 18:44.45 | Thomaschaaf | Well who cares :) |
| 18:44.45 | bartel | great point |
| 18:45.00 | Thomaschaaf | And I hate the mouse :D |
| 18:45.20 | koen | "I want to buy hardware, but I dislike apple for selling it to me" |
| 18:45.46 | Thomaschaaf | No I want to chose the stuff and buy it for OEM prices.. |
| 18:46.25 | Thomaschaaf | and not a cpu which costs me $210 as OEM for $600 |
| 18:46.47 | aloril2 | Thomaschaaf: you like Vista, but prefer FLOSS Linux phone over WinCE phones? |
| 18:47.01 | Thomaschaaf | I havent chosen yet ;) |
| 18:47.11 | Thomaschaaf | I just read about it at winfuture |
| 18:47.40 | _buz | the longer i use linux, the greater my disgust whenever i'm forced to use windows |
| 18:48.06 | ph|ber | why would you be forced to use windows? |
| 18:48.25 | Thomaschaaf | Live CD?! |
| 18:48.31 | _buz | technically i'm only half forced |
| 18:48.41 | koen | because $corporate app needs windows because the linuxport isn't done yet |
| 18:48.50 | Thomaschaaf | HAHA! |
| 18:48.55 | _buz | there is theoretically suse on the work (uni) notebook but it doesnt really work |
| 18:49.02 | Thomaschaaf | SUSE sucks! |
| 18:49.06 | Thomaschaaf | I hate yum |
| 18:49.07 | _buz | acctually, my job could easily be done on linux |
| 18:49.16 | Thomaschaaf | and apt for suse is sucky too |
| 18:49.38 | _buz | (save for the very rare time i need to use stata or mathematica for which we have no liunux licenses) |
| 18:49.55 | koen | in summary: everything sucks, except Thomaschaaf |
| 18:50.17 | Thomaschaaf | I'll take that as a compliment :) |
| 18:50.18 | Thomaschaaf | yey |
| 18:50.39 | _buz | yeah but i dont like suse either ;) |
| 18:51.04 | Thomaschaaf | I like Debian and Ubuntu which is almost the same |
| 18:51.10 | Thomaschaaf | a big almost |
| 18:51.21 | _buz | what usually happens: i have personally notebook running kubuntu next to the windows notebook |
| 18:51.31 | _buz | ~s/personally/personal/ |
| 18:51.51 | Thomaschaaf | well which languages will I be able to program on the phone? |
| 18:51.56 | Thomaschaaf | C I bet |
| 18:51.58 | Thomaschaaf | and C++ |
| 18:52.08 | Thomaschaaf | C#?? |
| 18:52.10 | _buz | python |
| 18:52.11 | Thomaschaaf | with mono? |
| 18:52.13 | Thomaschaaf | perl? |
| 18:52.16 | mmp | Thomaschaaf: whatever you think of |
| 18:52.25 | mmp | ... and write bindings for:) |
| 18:52.32 | Thomaschaaf | I'll write PHP :D |
| 18:52.39 | *** join/#openmoko _fletch (n=fletch@doener.lieferservice.cc) |
| 18:52.41 | Stephmw | _buz: also have to use windows for some things at work... LookOut is the biggest culprit |
| 18:52.48 | Stephmw | _buz: Notes is the other |
| 18:53.03 | _buz | i could never make up my mind just which one is worse |
| 18:53.26 | Thomaschaaf | I'm hungry |
| 18:54.05 | Thomaschaaf | why will the mass market be more expensive than the "small production" ? |
| 18:54.34 | guaqua | see the specs |
| 18:54.34 | Thomaschaaf | forgot the word "price" |
| 18:54.43 | Thomaschaaf | link pleeeeaaasse |
| 18:55.01 | guaqua | see topic |
| 18:55.47 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB038E8.ipt.aol.com) |
| 18:55.59 | Thomaschaaf | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware ? |
| 18:56.33 | guaqua | see the mailing list archive and sean's last post there |
| 18:56.39 | guaqua | in community at least |
| 18:57.11 | aloril2 | mmp: maybe you saw speculation in counter page about future models and 3G? |
| 18:57.51 | aloril2 | (future models: GTA03, etc.. at next year maybe) |
| 18:58.00 | mmp | aloril: yes, that might be that:) |
| 18:58.56 | mmp | but anyway, I'm really curious about what will GTA03 contains |
| 18:58.59 | mmp | contain |
| 18:59.15 | mmp | even GTA02 seems to be overwhelmed with hardware |
| 18:59.28 | Thomaschaaf | LOL "Laser Pointer |
| 19:00.03 | *** join/#openmoko rob_ (n=rob@ACB2E3DD.ipt.aol.com) |
| 19:01.04 | *** join/#openmoko deepank (n=deepank@59.178.45.81) |
| 19:01.14 | balrog-kun | teleporter |
| 19:01.26 | Thomaschaaf | a keyboard would be o great! |
| 19:01.29 | deepank | alphaone: I want to ask you something |
| 19:01.57 | alphaone | deepank: Yeah? |
| 19:02.25 | aloril2 | faq? |
| 19:02.25 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 19:02.43 | deepank | what does the command " ip a add 10.0.0.2/24 dev bnep0 " do? In my notebook it says bnep0 not found |
| 19:03.35 | alphaone | deepank: Thats for the bluetooth networking interface |
| 19:03.54 | alphaone | You need the module bnep |
| 19:04.05 | alphaone | And a bluetooth device |
| 19:04.30 | deepank | alphaone:ok. I was able to get the openmoko phone detected by laptop using hcitool scan |
| 19:04.42 | Thomaschaaf | you have one? |
| 19:04.45 | deepank | and started the pand server on it as you said |
| 19:05.31 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 19:05.34 | gamin | don-o, just read that your t39 still keeps ticking and so does mine ;-) even the battery wont die and is fit as on the first day. Seems that Li-ion does not necessarily need to age... |
| 19:06.54 | *** join/#openmoko Savenger (n=savenger@i577A91DE.versanet.de) |
| 19:07.22 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-144-137-208-23.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 19:08.03 | alphaone | deepank: But you don't have a device bnep0? |
| 19:08.15 | *** join/#openmoko deepank_ (n=deepank@59.178.45.81) |
| 19:08.55 | deepank_ | alphaone: as I understand bnep is the protocol used for transfer of packets and bluez-hcidump is installed in my machine which supports it. |
| 19:08.55 | alphaone | deepank_: But you don't have a device bnep0? |
| 19:09.14 | deepank_ | alphaone:yes |
| 19:10.08 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (i=timr@205.233.55.201) |
| 19:10.12 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@162-117-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 19:10.27 | deepank_ | alphaone: so what should I do? |
| 19:11.03 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-51-182.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:11.11 | alphaone | deepank_: Hmm, I see what you mean. I don't get a device now, either. |
| 19:12.35 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@205.233.53.236) |
| 19:12.39 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 19:13.33 | deepank_ | alphaone:So what should be done to get bnep, something you did back then? |
| 19:13.57 | alphaone | deepank_: There are some kernel versions between my last attempt...I'm not really sure |
| 19:14.39 | deepank_ | alphaone:sounds interesting ... |
| 19:14.43 | alphaone | heh |
| 19:15.11 | alphaone | If I'm not mistaken starting pand should result in a network device being created |
| 19:16.00 | deepank_ | hmm but i did start pand... I will try again |
| 19:16.40 | Thomaschaaf | well I'm off bye bye |
| 19:17.33 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 19:18.27 | alphaone | deepank_: It's not working here either... |
| 19:18.47 | deepank_ | I think pand is a bit outdated now.. can it be the reason? |
| 19:20.06 | deepank_ | alphaone:which kernel version did it work with? |
| 19:20.23 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=billybob@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 19:20.41 | alphaone | deepank_: I had 2.6.17 back then |
| 19:20.58 | prpplague | anyone working on the sdio stack for the s3c24xx? |
| 19:21.13 | *** part/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADB109.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:23.59 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 19:25.47 | balrog-kun | last i checked Linux had no sdio stack |
| 19:26.20 | koen | it has, but as an external patch |
| 19:26.32 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 19:26.34 | balrog-kun | i see |
| 19:26.38 | koen | pierre and marcel are rewriting it |
| 19:27.53 | deepank_ | alphaone:got anything? |
| 19:28.03 | prpplague | koen: yea, i figured someone might be doing some more handy work in prep for the neo with wifi |
| 19:28.20 | deepank_ | alphaone:Is there another way we can do this? |
| 19:28.27 | koen | prpplague: I suspect they'll hookup wifi via spi or usb |
| 19:28.47 | alphaone | deepank_: I'm currently looking into it, give me a second |
| 19:28.47 | SpeedEvil | I hope it's not USB. |
| 19:28.56 | SpeedEvil | USB means that it won't work in slow mode. |
| 19:28.56 | *** join/#openmoko dotx (n=dotX@log77-4-82-246-228-78.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:28.59 | dotx | hello |
| 19:29.02 | prpplague | koen: i think you will find, from experience with the USB interface on the OLPC project, that its not a very good way to go |
| 19:29.24 | SpeedEvil | It would be nice if bluetooth could be moved onto SPI too. |
| 19:29.25 | koen | prpplague: usb is a bad way to go regardless of what you are doing |
| 19:29.28 | alphaone | deepank_: So you're on the GSoC bluetooth networking project? |
| 19:29.52 | prpplague | koen: and as far as spi, max clock on the s3c24xx spi controller is 25mhz and a 1-bit interface that limits you to less than 25megabit transfers, so no 802.11g max of 54megabit |
| 19:30.13 | koen | like it ever does 54Mbit/s |
| 19:30.20 | prpplague | koen: true |
| 19:30.26 | prpplague | koen: marketing |
| 19:30.31 | koen | just do some handwaving and say 'single duplex' |
| 19:30.35 | Stephmw | ~marketting-- |
| 19:30.37 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:30.39 | SpeedEvil | Not to mention that with 44K*2*2 audio out, ... |
| 19:31.29 | prpplague | the 2442 does have a cf interface iirc |
| 19:31.31 | *** join/#openmoko misthupper (n=chatzill@p54B301C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:31.38 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@205.233.53.236) |
| 19:32.15 | misthupper | hello there |
| 19:32.31 | *** part/#openmoko baze (n=baze@p5481F999.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:32.53 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-8-211.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 19:33.02 | SpeedEvil | CF is rather unlikley. |
| 19:33.15 | SpeedEvil | Even embedded. |
| 19:33.20 | SpeedEvil | Annoying number of wires. |
| 19:33.26 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: agreed |
| 19:33.28 | koen | a cf slot would rock |
| 19:33.30 | Stephmw | CF/USB interface? |
| 19:33.34 | koen | all my cameras are cf |
| 19:33.40 | Stephmw | koen: photog peeking out again :) |
| 19:33.41 | *** join/#openmoko deepank__ (n=deepank@59.178.35.58) |
| 19:33.49 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: thats the primary reason we don't use it |
| 19:33.49 | Stephmw | koen: OTG would do too |
| 19:33.52 | koen | yeah |
| 19:34.02 | misthupper | i have only one question, when/where can i buy the phone in germany? |
| 19:34.02 | aloril | misthupper: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:34.10 | koen | Stephmw: *cough* firewire on cam *cough* |
| 19:34.14 | Stephmw | misthupper: same time as everyone else, worldwide |
| 19:34.27 | koen | now, firewire on the neo, that would rock |
| 19:34.29 | Stephmw | koen: yeah, in 2050, maybe |
| 19:34.29 | misthupper | where? |
| 19:34.46 | *** join/#openmoko mnmn (n=chatzill@213.148.30.66) |
| 19:34.57 | Stephmw | when it's released ;) read the faq |
| 19:35.20 | misthupper | i see... |
| 19:36.43 | SpeedEvil | misthupper: July 9, way that it's done is not announced. |
| 19:37.46 | *** join/#openmoko xipietotec (n=jackfros@cpe-67-49-247-144.dc.res.rr.com) |
| 19:38.07 | xipietotec | ....a.) Awesome. b.) damnit on the price raise. |
| 19:38.32 | Stephmw | I liked the price drop, personally |
| 19:38.44 | guaqua | same here |
| 19:38.54 | guaqua | now i'm thinking about it... |
| 19:39.05 | xipietotec | Stephmw, they dropped the dev phones (which are incomplete compared to the mass market), by $50, and raised the mass market by $100. |
| 19:39.07 | *** join/#openmoko deepank (n=deepank@59.178.35.58) |
| 19:39.29 | xipietotec | so I'll just be waiting for the mass market, and get my wifi and SIP...mmm.... |
| 19:39.54 | guaqua | i don't think the price for the mass market was ever published |
| 19:40.05 | SpeedEvil | It wasn't. |
| 19:40.15 | xipietotec | guaqua, yes it was. Mass market for $450, or $600 for the bells and whistles edition. |
| 19:40.29 | thresh | it wasnt, actually |
| 19:40.30 | SpeedEvil | And it was implied back wehnr there were no accels, or 2d accel |
| 19:41.52 | xipietotec | I doubt it |
| 19:42.05 | SpeedEvil | Not yet. |
| 19:42.14 | SpeedEvil | Maybe for 'october' |
| 19:42.28 | guaqua | SpeedEvil: 'october' :D |
| 19:42.29 | SpeedEvil | Which I assume is a codename for the mass market release date. |
| 19:43.03 | kiney_ | counter |
| 19:43.03 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T13:46) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 3 days 16:16:56 (10.678±1.0 days) (1639;242) |
| 19:43.06 | xipietotec | SpeedEvil, I doubt it even then. They can't "lock" the phone. ergo probably no distribution through the major chains at least. |
| 19:43.29 | xipietotec | and to clarify: you guys meant that the mass market price was never published prior to today right? |
| 19:43.36 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 19:43.48 | SpeedEvil | However. |
| 19:43.54 | dotx | anyone know which operating system samsung use with mobile phone ? |
| 19:44.01 | SpeedEvil | The phone can be locked in principle. |
| 19:44.06 | *** part/#openmoko dottedmag (n=mag@dottedmag.net) |
| 19:44.19 | thomasg__ | dotx, samsung uses many os |
| 19:44.21 | cbrake | what is the status of the wifi driver in GTA02? |
| 19:44.30 | xipietotec | SpeedEvil, and unlocked in equal ease. |
| 19:44.38 | SpeedEvil | Not really. |
| 19:44.39 | thomasg__ | win mobile for smartphones, symbian 8 with series60 (by nokia) for some others, a proprietary system for the normal phones |
| 19:44.50 | xipietotec | SpeedEvil, why not? |
| 19:44.53 | SpeedEvil | You would at least need the debug board if it's done properly. |
| 19:45.07 | guaqua | you can hack current phones aswell |
| 19:45.20 | Stephmw | some are harder than others |
| 19:45.20 | guaqua | for example enable disabled bluetooth etc |
| 19:45.26 | SpeedEvil | Consider if you want anyone with a properly prepared phone to be able to download your phones current state with 30s access. |
| 19:45.50 | GaKKGaKk | One small thing... I see there has been talk about microUSB, and maybe some false informtion too. microUSB is really just a smaller, more robust port. it is about half the height of a normal miniUSB port. The RAZR2 has one, and most new phones will. miniUSB: http://www.ctgcom.com/miniusb2.jpg , microUSB: http://www.ceatec.com/2006/imgx/product/0568.jpg |
| 19:45.50 | xipietotec | ? I don't follow SpeedEvil |
| 19:46.06 | SpeedEvil | xipietotec: The current scheme pretty much allows that. |
| 19:46.37 | xipietotec | SpeedEvil, meaning they can swipe all your data? What security is there? |
| 19:46.38 | SpeedEvil | xipietotec: upload the right DFU image, using the proper tool, and you now have complete access to the phone. |
| 19:46.53 | SpeedEvil | By obscurity at the moment. |
| 19:47.11 | xipietotec | that's not exactly good for the open moko |
| 19:47.29 | slider_ | contract phones aren't simlocked in most cases here..this is more of a prepaid-phone problem which might not be neo's target-market |
| 19:47.34 | SpeedEvil | Also - ownere and user are not the same. |
| 19:47.47 | SpeedEvil | Plus - simlocking can happen ont eh Neo. |
| 19:47.56 | SpeedEvil | The phone module is not open source. |
| 19:48.14 | xipietotec | cloneable API though in principal no? |
| 19:48.24 | minime | SpeedEvil, didn't i tell you last night about neo available for sale? ;) |
| 19:48.38 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Press_Coverage]] [[Main_Page]] |
| 19:48.40 | SpeedEvil | If I for example buy a phone and give it to my employees, I don't want them able to install stuff. |
| 19:48.58 | SpeedEvil | Or I want them only able to install pre-signed stuff. |
| 19:49.14 | xipietotec | SpeedEvil, That's what sudo is for =P |
| 19:49.50 | dotx | thomasg__: in SGH-U600 => http://www.samsung.com/fr/microsites/u600/ |
| 19:49.53 | SpeedEvil | xipietotec: not if you can hold down the power button and simply upload a firmware image that will let you edit the filesystem as you desire. |
| 19:50.24 | xipietotec | SpeedEvil, yes...but um, 99.99% of *employees* won't be tossed to do that with company property. |
| 19:50.46 | SpeedEvil | Consider where they have an incentive to. |
| 19:50.53 | SpeedEvil | For example, faking time records. |
| 19:51.17 | xipietotec | any inspection on the phone's root account, etc. would reveal it as false. |
| 19:51.39 | xipietotec | hell, file date creations would. |
| 19:51.46 | SpeedEvil | You plug the phone into your laptop. Upload a custom firmware image to RAM, boot it. You now own the phone. |
| 19:51.54 | *** join/#openmoko noidd (n=red@thievery.criticalintegration.com) |
| 19:51.58 | SpeedEvil | As much as if you boot off a floppy with a standard PC. |
| 19:52.17 | thomasg__ | dotx, afaik this thingy is win mobile powered |
| 19:52.28 | xipietotec | create some sort of boot sequence lock, that requires both a key combo and then password override. |
| 19:52.36 | SpeedEvil | There is currently none. |
| 19:52.57 | SpeedEvil | Passwording u-boot is possible. |
| 19:53.03 | webjames | i want it so if my phones stolen, it's useless |
| 19:53.18 | SpeedEvil | And requiring signed images to upgrade. |
| 19:53.29 | SpeedEvil | Me too. |
| 19:53.44 | prpplague | cbrake: i've not been able to get an update on the wifi |
| 19:53.44 | SpeedEvil | I want to be able to only upload signed images - with me having the signing tool. |
| 19:54.07 | SpeedEvil | I _might_ be happy with some 'locked in' applications - if I got a free neo. |
| 19:54.07 | cbrake | prpplague: have you looked at http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=186068? |
| 19:54.09 | webjames | that means, if they turn it off they can't get access to it again, and if the screen locks on they can't plug it in and get access to it |
| 19:54.37 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:54.40 | prpplague | cbrake: yea, got a copy |
| 19:54.42 | cbrake | prpplague: I'm also looking into the following module: http://www.accton.com/products/product_range/21_weap/WM3236A.AQ.htm |
| 19:54.48 | xipietotec | locking the boot sequence is a good first step, as the phone is both a.) new, and b.) running linux....most phone thieves will not have any off the shelf tools for reformatting, etc., for at least a year after launch. |
| 19:54.49 | prpplague | cbrake: using it as a guide to work on my marvell stuff |
| 19:54.55 | SpeedEvil | Encryption goes part of the way there. |
| 19:55.06 | cbrake | prpplague: moving to #edev |
| 19:55.26 | SpeedEvil | It really could do with some way of passwording JTAG access too though. |
| 19:56.09 | xipietotec | question though....is there software along the lines of the iphone's keypad sequence yet? |
| 19:56.15 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 19:56.30 | *** join/#openmoko deepank_ (n=deepank@59.178.46.227) |
| 19:56.36 | SpeedEvil | The answer to almost all 'is there software' questions at the moment is 'no'. |
| 19:56.50 | xipietotec | ah, gotcha. There will be by launch though....correct? |
| 19:57.02 | SpeedEvil | What's the keypad sequence? |
| 19:57.05 | guaqua | xipietotec: you can help by programming it |
| 19:57.07 | xipietotec | software I meant, lol |
| 19:57.14 | SpeedEvil | software? |
| 19:57.25 | dotx | thomasg__: windows mobile ? But it very lite... |
| 19:57.48 | xipietotec | SpeedEvil, the iphone gets over the non-tactile nature of the touch-screen via word completion and spell correction. |
| 19:57.49 | thomasg__ | dotx, I was wrong, the F600 was the win mobile device |
| 19:58.09 | xipietotec | guaqua, unfortunately, I am not a programmer =\ |
| 19:58.13 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: hmmm, I suppose you could use the accelerometers for gesture recog as security mechanism |
| 19:58.20 | SpeedEvil | xipietotec: There are any number of schemes in progress to do text input. |
| 19:58.29 | SpeedEvil | Stephmw: perhaps. |
| 19:58.29 | dotx | thomasg__: ah oki |
| 19:58.46 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: number of shakes maybe :D |
| 19:58.48 | SpeedEvil | xipietotec: how well it woll work come release time - who knows. |
| 19:58.55 | thomasg__ | don't know what the U600 is, but I guess the samsung proprietary phone (not smartphone) plattform |
| 19:58.56 | xipietotec | otherwise I'd be all over the code like flies on honey =) |
| 19:59.02 | SpeedEvil | Stephmw: Seen Red Dwarf? |
| 19:59.14 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: all of them, I think |
| 19:59.22 | SpeedEvil | Stephmw: Rimmers Salute. |
| 19:59.28 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: bwahahaha |
| 19:59.43 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: or one of his 'variations' |
| 19:59.52 | SpeedEvil | Indeed, for extra security. |
| 20:00.34 | SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q6wZUzCX7E |
| 20:03.35 | xipietotec | I <3 red dwarf |
| 20:03.52 | *** join/#openmoko deepank__ (n=deepank@59.178.49.123) |
| 20:04.50 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - passwording jtag should only be available, when the nand for u-boot can be locked. :-) |
| 20:05.34 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 20:07.15 | alphaone | deepank_: I upgraded bluez to 3.11 and that seems to work |
| 20:07.49 | alphaone | deepank_: Try to change Autostart=true in /etc/bluetooth/network.service |
| 20:08.11 | alphaone | Then after a while a device pan0 should appear. |
| 20:08.41 | Elrond | Did anyone try u-boot-gta01bv3-r10_1636d1c8529c006d106287cfbc20cd0a246fe1cb_0_2302.bin (one the GTA01Bv03) yet? |
| 20:09.20 | deepank__ | alphaone:ok ... i am trying this now |
| 20:09.20 | Elrond | ... on the other hand, I should wait, until the other u-boot issues are fixed. :) |
| 20:09.31 | alphaone | But I have no idea how to get the connection hooked up with that version... |
| 20:10.51 | deepank__ | alphaone: i think we will have to use bluez api for that |
| 20:11.53 | alphaone | deepank_: It seems like it communicates via dbus now. |
| 20:11.56 | alphaone | Nice |
| 20:12.26 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 20:16.07 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 20:17.08 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-77-194.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:19.20 | deepank__ | alphaone:yes it communicates using dbus now |
| 20:20.40 | *** join/#openmoko yacc_ (n=andreas@081-003-255-015.dyn.one.at) |
| 20:20.41 | *** join/#openmoko C7_ (n=C7@77-56-188-114.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:20.51 | webjames | that's good news |
| 20:20.53 | rob__w | Kaloz, do you have a sec |
| 20:22.54 | Basheri | one can not own time |
| 20:23.04 | Basheri | ok, wtf |
| 20:23.13 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-210-164.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:26.17 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@205.233.53.236) |
| 20:27.38 | *** join/#openmoko deepank_ (n=deepank@59.178.49.123) |
| 20:29.39 | summatusmentis | is it worth it at this point? |
| 20:30.13 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - [Your wiki-edit on Neo1973] The debug board might be useful in kernel development, as you get the serial console. |
| 20:32.07 | alphaone | deepank_: If you find out how to setup pan with bluez-3.11 please update the wiki. |
| 20:34.58 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 20:35.01 | *** join/#openmoko slider_ (n=foo@e182035146.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:36.42 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: I should disapprove... someone seems to have uploaded a significant number of Red Dwarf episodes to youtube |
| 20:37.18 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-184-057.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:38.51 | CM | summatusmentis: I finally got qemu to build correctly and run yesteday ;) |
| 20:39.23 | CM | With the mokomakefile that is. Feels worth it |
| 20:39.31 | SpeedEvil | Well - practically. |
| 20:39.37 | SpeedEvil | The quality is horrible. |
| 20:39.39 | deepank_ | alphaone: I will try to do that ... just installed bluez 3.12 now |
| 20:39.48 | SpeedEvil | I'd much rather have DVD. |
| 20:40.58 | *** join/#openmoko Vardyr (n=vardyr@ip24-255-151-241.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 20:46.23 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-24-3-53-185.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 20:49.52 | *** join/#openmoko Tronic (i=tronic@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe30fa00-139.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:54.36 | *** join/#openmoko expose (n=nobody@82.139.196.236) |
| 20:54.44 | expose | hi |
| 20:54.57 | expose | the used toolkit for the UI is gtk+ vers2.x right? |
| 20:55.09 | thomasg__ | yes |
| 20:56.22 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-77-194.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:56.22 | expose | wont that eat up alot of computation power? i mean - it's a mobile phone. wouldnt something especially designed for being lightweight be better? or is gtk patched/altered accordingly to fit those needs in a clean wayß |
| 20:56.32 | expose | ? |
| 20:57.12 | nox-Hand | counter |
| 20:57.12 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T13:46) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 3 days 15:02:47 (10.627±1.0 days) (1640;242) |
| 20:57.51 | expose | so...it makes sense to use a gtk-like-syntax as people already know it, yet...well. i'm not that into the development of neither openmoko nor gtk |
| 21:01.23 | *** join/#openmoko ruimoreira (n=rmoreira@87-196-60-204.net.novis.pt) |
| 21:03.05 | thomasg__ | expose, I'm not, too. I also think that gtk might not be the best choise in sight of the hardware. but I also think, that the developers will get it :) |
| 21:03.45 | expose | yes, that equaly my point of view currently. |
| 21:04.04 | expose | i cannot imagine that they'll use something feeling delayed and laggy if used. |
| 21:04.05 | thomasg__ | personally I'm looking forward to have a nice efl-gui and some etk/ewl-apps for openmoko (saying that as e17 fan :) ) |
| 21:04.23 | SpeedEvil | In many ways - performance is low down on the tree, to developer numbers. |
| 21:06.04 | alphaone | night all |
| 21:07.42 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 21:15.32 | webjames | night alphaone |
| 21:15.53 | don-o | omg the build finished. |
| 21:15.57 | don-o | now i have no idea what to do :) |
| 21:16.23 | deepank_ | night alphaone |
| 21:17.35 | gcb77 | I finally got past the ltrace build problem too.... hoping it will be done soon |
| 21:18.00 | gcb77 | should I post the fix on the wiki? or is this something nobody else has run into? |
| 21:21.13 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 21:26.37 | webjames | arghh well i can't seem to upload |
| 21:32.59 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@205.233.52.212) |
| 21:36.12 | gcb77 | don-o: figure out what to do with the build yet? |
| 21:46.32 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 21:48.58 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Press_Coverage]] |
| 21:50.06 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A36642.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:50.56 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@63.Red-88-12-254.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:57.17 | *** part/#openmoko expose (n=nobody@82.139.196.236) |
| 22:02.30 | *** join/#openmoko Min464 (n=10373019@IGLD-83-130-46-141.inter.net.il) |
| 22:02.32 | Min464 | WOW! Free phone calls - http://callfree.point-serv.com/en/ |
| 22:02.33 | *** part/#openmoko Min464 (n=10373019@IGLD-83-130-46-141.inter.net.il) |
| 22:02.57 | Clint | WOW! |
| 22:03.55 | Kero | if it is just as WOW as the time he stayed here... |
| 22:04.06 | Kero | (she?) |
| 22:04.13 | Clint | it? |
| 22:04.15 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:09.32 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178104182.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:12.25 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A36642.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:14.48 | *** part/#openmoko GaKKGaKk (n=Viko@ti121210a080-2157.bb.online.no) |
| 22:16.54 | don-o | gcb77: nope. any pointers? |
| 22:22.13 | don-o | ERROR: QEMU requires SDL or Cocoa for graphical output |
| 22:22.19 | don-o | ive got libsdl-1.2 installed. |
| 22:22.29 | don-o | ah probably need a -dev package |
| 22:25.50 | *** join/#openmoko lengau (n=lengau@c-76-22-213-228.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 22:26.22 | *** join/#openmoko V0sen[nL]` (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 22:26.53 | bartel | don-o: sdl_config? |
| 22:27.04 | bartel | sdl-config |
| 22:27.17 | bartel | don-o: DISPLAY set? |
| 22:32.35 | *** join/#openmoko Shoragan (n=shoragan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 22:33.38 | *** join/#openmoko alphaone (n=daniel@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 22:34.56 | gcb77 | don-o: make build-qemu |
| 22:35.13 | gcb77 | make flash-qemu-local |
| 22:39.02 | don-o | gcb77: i assumed run would be dependent on build :( |
| 22:50.08 | balrog-kun | gcb77: the -vnc option is handy for remote VMs |
| 22:50.15 | balrog-kun | much nicer than X forwarding |
| 23:00.03 | *** join/#openmoko Tetraden (n=FU-gibts@Qe33b.q.pppool.de) |
| 23:00.10 | Tetraden | hi |
| 23:00.51 | Tetraden | i have a little question... |
| 23:01.13 | CoreDump|home | don't ask to ask, just ask |
| 23:01.56 | Tetraden | what do you think about the fact, that the final neo1973 will cost 100$ more than announced? |
| 23:02.14 | SpeedEvil | Meh. |
| 23:02.41 | SpeedEvil | It's got accelerometers, and 2D hardware accel chip, and wifi. |
| 23:03.08 | CoreDump|home | I say I'll be worth it |
| 23:03.15 | Tetraden | And what the hell are the accellerometers for? in my opinion theyre geek stuff in a mobile phone. noone needs them |
| 23:03.28 | SpeedEvil | Detecting phone movement. |
| 23:03.31 | don-o | make run-qemu => "could not open Flash image openmoko/openmoko-flash.image" |
| 23:03.35 | SpeedEvil | It's another user-interface input. |
| 23:03.39 | cjb | Tetraden: it was announced without wifi, so of course it costs more now. |
| 23:03.59 | cjb | Tetraden: the iPhone has accelerometers too. do you think that Apple's designers are idiots too, then? |
| 23:04.07 | Tetraden | no, it was announced without accellerometers |
| 23:04.28 | balrog-kun | don-o: does this file exist? |
| 23:04.40 | gcb77 | The accellerometers is what allows the image to shift from landscape to portrait when you rotate the phone |
| 23:04.43 | don-o | balrog-kun: i doubt it. question is how to build it. |
| 23:05.03 | balrog-kun | don-o: i thought one of the MokoMakefile targets produces it |
| 23:05.05 | gcb77 | I think it would make a great interface for the keyboard too (tilt to scroll) |
| 23:05.07 | cjb | gcb77: you can do a lot more than that, too, e.g. typing via tilt control. |
| 23:05.13 | balrog-kun | don-o: the one after building qemu itself |
| 23:05.36 | don-o | balrog-kun: do you mean it comes after in the makefile? |
| 23:05.49 | Stephmw | the accelerometers will make the OM version of Etch'a'Sketch really come to life.. |
| 23:05.53 | CoreDump|home | Tetraden: well, you could always get a P1 for the lower price then |
| 23:06.11 | Tetraden | yes, but I essentially need wifi |
| 23:06.19 | balrog-kun | don-o: oh, no, in the MokoMakefile tutorial on the wiki, i have no idea what order it goes in the Makefile |
| 23:06.21 | Tetraden | but no accellerometer toy stuff |
| 23:06.55 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 23:07.00 | balrog-kun | don-o: if that doesn't work, just build the image normally like described in the qemu wiki page |
| 23:07.14 | cjb | Tetraden: accelerometers cost $0.50 each. they aren't why it's more expensive. |
| 23:07.27 | cjb | so, get over it. |
| 23:07.32 | balrog-kun | Tetraden: it's a geek phone |
| 23:07.41 | Tetraden | I really hope so @cjb |
| 23:07.57 | don-o | balrog-kun: all the MokeMakeFile page says after 'make openmoko-devel-image' is "Once you have done this, you can choose to continue using the MokoMakefile to initiate your subsequent builds, or you can go into the build directory and run bitbake commands manually. The choice is yours. |
| 23:08.02 | don-o | [edit] |
| 23:08.05 | don-o | " |
| 23:08.07 | gcb77 | don-o: did you run: flash-qemu-local |
| 23:08.09 | don-o | whoops sorry about the big paste |
| 23:08.12 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@207.81.133.5) |
| 23:08.17 | Tetraden | it was so perfect for my needs before the accelerometer stuff... |
| 23:08.20 | don-o | gcb77: nope. im guessing i should ? |
| 23:08.21 | cjb | balrog-kun: funny thing is, that doesn't even have to be the argument; iPhone has accelerometers too, so they're clearly not something foolish that openmoko has chosen poorly. |
| 23:08.29 | balrog-kun | don-o: see the qemu wiki page then |
| 23:08.32 | gcb77 | don-o: yep, make flash-qemu-local |
| 23:08.40 | balrog-kun | don-o: i can't advocate for anything MokoMakefile does |
| 23:09.33 | balrog-kun | cjb: oh, i had no idea, but yeah, there are uses where they could turn out a very nice addition |
| 23:09.54 | don-o | gcb77: ah its doing a lot of low-level cool-looking stuff |
| 23:10.17 | balrog-kun | i guess people are used to whatever is current standard high-end phone and anything more than that is a toy or geeky stuff |
| 23:10.21 | Tetraden | damn, thats marketing how i hate it. turning all around a few moments before its too late |
| 23:10.35 | don-o | OH MY |
| 23:10.44 | don-o | its booting under qemu. \o/ |
| 23:10.45 | cjb | balrog-kun: yeah, it looks like iPhone uses it a lot, e.g. in the music player you tilt to landscape mode to zoom out to the album view |
| 23:10.47 | Tetraden | but knowing what is going on for months |
| 23:11.14 | cjb | Tetraden: your view seems kinda ridiculous, I'm afraid |
| 23:11.15 | Stephmw | Tetraden: I'm not understanding why you're griping about $1's worth of accelerometers |
| 23:11.22 | SpeedEvil | It's not $1 |
| 23:11.34 | SpeedEvil | It's $5 at least - cost price, probably $8 |
| 23:11.38 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: sorry, was using the $0.50 mentioned earlier... |
| 23:11.40 | cjb | SpeedEvil: I've been offered accelerometers for $0.50 each :) |
| 23:11.51 | SpeedEvil | And double that on the purchase price. |
| 23:11.55 | SpeedEvil | ChanServ: where? |
| 23:11.58 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 23:12.01 | cjb | just saying, it's not the reason it's $100 more |
| 23:12.17 | SpeedEvil | cjb: where? And in what volume? |
| 23:12.42 | cjb | and if you think the only features you get from them are "toy" ones, then all I can say is that clearly Apple disagrees |
| 23:12.43 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 23:12.45 | Tetraden | in my view it is the reason for about 25-40 bucks more |
| 23:12.54 | SpeedEvil | It's certainly not. |
| 23:12.57 | cjb | and if you think Apple's designers are idiots, then that's a good place to end the conversation. |
| 23:13.08 | don-o | i assume the real neo will take 3-5 minutes to boot :( |
| 23:13.09 | SpeedEvil | I did a design for adding in accels to a phase 1 phone. |
| 23:13.16 | balrog-kun | actually all telephony is toys, starting from Bell and his invention |
| 23:13.23 | SpeedEvil | I came up with a total BOM for $20 |
| 23:13.33 | SpeedEvil | At qty=1 |
| 23:13.37 | cjb | SpeedEvil: yeah, I know people who've added an accelerometer to their old-style iPaq |
| 23:13.49 | SpeedEvil | In 1000, it'd be $10 or so |
| 23:13.57 | cjb | sounds about right to me. |
| 23:14.26 | balrog-kun | don-o: well, it won't :p |
| 23:14.26 | SpeedEvil | cjb: was the 0.50 in insane volume? |
| 23:14.35 | cjb | maybe an order of magnitude high. FIC obviously has more purchasing power than you. |
| 23:14.40 | cjb | SpeedEvil: insane for us, yes. |
| 23:14.57 | cjb | not for a sufficiently motivated company :) |
| 23:15.39 | balrog-kun | don-o: last i checked, on my PC it was some 1:25 for qemu and 1:35 for the real Neo, the first boot that sets up all the stuff, and consecutive boots were about 55s vs. 1:05 |
| 23:15.42 | SpeedEvil | I'm just going by published prices. |
| 23:15.59 | cjb | yeah. which are usually double the prices a large company gets from a large manufacturer. |
| 23:16.11 | SpeedEvil | It will be a pity if the accels used are the ones stated in the mailing list. |
| 23:16.25 | cjb | oh, really? I didn't look up the parts. |
| 23:16.30 | cjb | What's wrong with them? |
| 23:16.32 | SpeedEvil | 7 bit range. |
| 23:16.37 | SpeedEvil | +-2G |
| 23:16.43 | cjb | haha |
| 23:16.48 | cjb | make that $0.25 :) |
| 23:16.50 | balrog-kun | i think there's a big chance the mailing list didn't lie :p |
| 23:17.08 | SpeedEvil | You can get 12 bit or so without too much problems. |
| 23:17.24 | SpeedEvil | Using an A/D and one of the accels from the Wii. |
| 23:18.03 | SpeedEvil | From the Wii controller that is. |
| 23:18.07 | cjb | does having two of them help you infer a larger range overall? |
| 23:18.11 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 23:18.14 | cjb | ok. |
| 23:18.30 | SpeedEvil | Having 2 of the 7 bit ones basically means that you can tell if someone is twisting it as hard as they can. |
| 23:18.55 | SpeedEvil | Having 2 of the 12 bit ones means that you can detect a 60 degree/second or so roll about the gravity axes |
| 23:19.35 | Tetraden | that sucks -_- |
| 23:19.52 | SpeedEvil | Either of them give the direction of 'down' quite precisely. |
| 23:19.58 | cjb | yeah, shame. still, it reassures me that they're basically not spending any money on them :) |
| 23:20.12 | SpeedEvil | It's just the 12 bit option gives _lots_ more flexibility. |
| 23:20.30 | SpeedEvil | The 7 bit ones are basically so bad that there is little point in putting two in unfortunately. |
| 23:20.42 | SpeedEvil | (based on simulations) |
| 23:20.57 | SpeedEvil | And basic physics. |
| 23:21.06 | cjb | that's a little odd. you might want to follow up to the mailing list. |
| 23:21.15 | cjb | suggesting that they go with one 12-bit instead or something. |
| 23:21.23 | SpeedEvil | It's not quite that simple alas. |
| 23:21.31 | SpeedEvil | the 7 bit ones go straight on the SPI bus. |
| 23:21.40 | balrog-kun | i think this was already suggested on the list |
| 23:21.41 | SpeedEvil | The 12 bit ones are analog. |
| 23:22.03 | SpeedEvil | The solution I came up with was a PIC, reading them. |
| 23:22.08 | Tetraden | another thing i dont like is the fact, that fic never gave a realistic (and actual) estimated price. |
| 23:22.21 | don-o | kudos to whoever did the transparent overlay when a call is placed. |
| 23:22.24 | SpeedEvil | Which uses around the same amount of power, and coincidentally has several 'free' A/Ds. |
| 23:22.30 | don-o | i hate to say it but its shiney and iPhone-like. |
| 23:22.35 | SpeedEvil | And GPIOs, and fun stuff. |
| 23:23.17 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 23:23.32 | balrog-kun | Tetraden: you must have a bad memory |
| 23:23.34 | SpeedEvil | I unfortunately couldn't find a large SPI RAM. |
| 23:23.45 | SpeedEvil | I would have loved to find a megabyte or so one. |
| 23:24.03 | cjb | SpeedEvil: an SPI flash part? |
| 23:24.11 | SpeedEvil | So the PIC could basically buffer several seconds of audio to it, stream it to the A/D with the CPU off. |
| 23:24.12 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 23:24.14 | SpeedEvil | SPI RAM. |
| 23:24.50 | cjb | ah. can you just use parallel RAM? |
| 23:25.05 | cjb | if you have a PIC. |
| 23:25.07 | SpeedEvil | CPU on, decode 8s of audio to RAM buffer, CPU off, send it out to the A/D, wake CPU up in time. |
| 23:25.18 | SpeedEvil | The advantage of SPI is size and pin count. |
| 23:25.19 | Tetraden | fic told a price of about 350$ for the final neo1973 and it never changed until yesterday. where were the announcements, that it will be more expensive than tought? |
| 23:25.38 | SpeedEvil | There was never a mass-market price announced. |
| 23:25.43 | cjb | Tetraden: I don't recall having seen a price for the wifi neo1973 before yesterday. |
| 23:26.03 | SpeedEvil | You can get SPI RAM chips - admittedly only 32K in 3mm*3mm*1mm or so packages. |
| 23:26.05 | happycube | $350 was always for gta01... and it's $300 now ;) |
| 23:26.11 | cjb | Tetraden: I think you're mistaken about having seen it before. As far as I'm concerned, it's *cheaper* than I'd thought. |
| 23:26.17 | cjb | right, exactly |
| 23:26.32 | don-o | dialing screenshot http://www.flickr.com/photos/donpdonp/654028514/ |
| 23:26.45 | Stephmw | links to the contrary always welcome... afaik they've always been public about everything (if sometimes tardy) |
| 23:27.23 | SpeedEvil | http://www.flickr.com/photos/donpdonp/654028514/ |
| 23:27.27 | SpeedEvil | sigh |
| 23:27.37 | don-o | why sigh? |
| 23:28.07 | Tetraden | the very first information i got about the neo included the apprx. 350$ price and some features including wifi |
| 23:28.09 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A0A5DA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:28.10 | SpeedEvil | I keep mispasting stuff. |
| 23:28.17 | SpeedEvil | Tetraden: from where. |
| 23:28.35 | SpeedEvil | There have been _many_ inaccurate web reviews. |
| 23:28.55 | mjr | hell, wifi has never been confirmed until now |
| 23:28.58 | cjb | Tetraden: when we tell you that we think you're mistaken, the correct response is to find something that proves otherwise. |
| 23:29.07 | cjb | Tetraden: not to just repeat the mistake. |
| 23:29.29 | balrog-kun | Tetraden: $350 is pretty damn exact considering they are going to be $300 and $400 |
| 23:29.31 | ewon | night all |
| 23:29.33 | Tetraden | it was in an interview with harald welte |
| 23:31.19 | mjr | Tetraden, well, hard to comment without seeing the exact thing. Plus, reporters still get things wrong. |
| 23:31.49 | mjr | but *shrug* |
| 23:31.51 | Tetraden | the interview was at the 9th of march 2007 |
| 23:32.06 | balrog-kun | well, $450 |
| 23:32.15 | Tetraden | in a german podcast called "chaosradio express" |
| 23:32.38 | Tetraden | he personally told the wifi feature and the estimated price |
| 23:32.41 | balrog-kun | Tetraden: so what are you saying? that they didn't gave a realistic estimate because they said it was going to be $350 and it's $450? |
| 23:32.51 | balrog-kun | that's ridiculous |
| 23:32.54 | SpeedEvil | 400 |
| 23:33.00 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 23:33.34 | cjb | Tetraden: you do sound like you're acting pretty entitled. FIC doesn't owe you anything; I'm sure Harald gave the best estimate he could at the time. |
| 23:33.44 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 23:34.00 | balrog-kun | to me you're sounding like you're kidding |
| 23:34.17 | Tetraden | 450 is nearly 130% of 350, thats a big difference |
| 23:34.36 | SpeedEvil | It was a 'we want it' |
| 23:34.44 | SpeedEvil | But they diddn't have a plan on the chipset |
| 23:34.53 | mjr | yeah, that's what I thought |
| 23:35.06 | webjames | okay do this: (350+450)/2 they weren't that wrong at all |
| 23:35.12 | cjb | yeah. so, you're complaining that they didn't know what the price would be.. before they knew what chips they were going to use. |
| 23:35.14 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko |
| 23:35.19 | cjb | Get. Over. It. |
| 23:35.23 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 23:35.30 | SpeedEvil | Was posted after March |
| 23:35.45 | balrog-kun | Tetraden: that's like telling someone you're leaving in five minutes and then leaving in 6:30 minutes |
| 23:35.56 | balrog-kun | for me below 20 would still be a realistic estimate |
| 23:36.10 | webjames | they were 50 usd out |
| 23:36.18 | webjames | not a great deal |
| 23:37.38 | webjames | what i found more annoying was the delays, but not long now! |
| 23:37.40 | webjames | :) |
| 23:38.11 | Tetraden | damn im a student, do you know how much 100$ can be? |
| 23:39.16 | mjr | buy GTA01 if you want cheap :þ |
| 23:39.17 | balrog-kun | so effectively you're complaining that they didn't give you an *exact* to cent price 10 months before they actually knew what hardware was going to be in it, you're just trolling |
| 23:39.30 | Tetraden | it is 2/3 of my total income for one month |
| 23:39.36 | Stephmw | hmmm, $100... 30 drinks |
| 23:40.11 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 23:40.46 | mjr | anyway yeah, I don't know german enough to go see if Harald was indeed too confident-sounding and actually said something about a wifi phone at 350, but it's useless to whine now anyhow |
| 23:41.39 | mjr | to me they've done a damn good job, and even offering the 01 at lowered cost |
| 23:42.21 | Tetraden | they were clearly seeing, that the final version will get more expensive. they simply could have told it ore do a new estimate. noone can tell me any corporate on this world is not planning everything for months |
| 23:42.27 | balrog-kun | it was officially state that the final price was going to be $350 and it was pretty damn good prediction as it turned out now in the announcement |
| 23:42.31 | balrog-kun | *stated |
| 23:43.16 | mjr | Tetraden, but in this case we happen to know that they didn't know what was going to go into the GTA02 |
| 23:44.27 | [lankester] | the wifi chip |
| 23:44.32 | [lankester] | was found like 1 month ago I think ? |
| 23:44.48 | [lankester] | geez |
| 23:44.58 | [lankester] | a good .. open .. unlock phone for 450$ |
| 23:45.12 | Tetraden | i cant believe this. its like building a house and dont knowing if it will have doors when its final. |
| 23:45.24 | [lankester] | Tetraden: the first plan was without wifi |
| 23:45.37 | [lankester] | since everybody was asking for it |
| 23:45.45 | [lankester] | they added wifi to the final version |
| 23:45.51 | [lankester] | they are doing this for US |
| 23:46.18 | Stephmw | Tetraden: this is how it's down in the industry |
| 23:46.22 | Stephmw | Tetraden: *done |
| 23:46.23 | Tetraden | wifi is ok, i need wifi too, bu |
| 23:46.30 | SpeedEvil | The initial hardware was _not_ meant for OpenMoko. |
| 23:46.31 | balrog-kun | Tetraden: you're seriously out of good complaints already and you're making up things |
| 23:46.37 | Stephmw | Tetraden: incremental confidence towards final specs and prices |
| 23:46.39 | SpeedEvil | The initial design that is. |
| 23:46.40 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 23:46.57 | mjr | Tetraden, you can read the mailing list archives if you want to see how uncertain the final GTA02 setup has really been for a long time |
| 23:47.12 | [lankester] | now it final |
| 23:47.17 | [lankester] | and now they know the price |
| 23:47.23 | Stephmw | looks like bed-time, gotta go herd some mobilephones tomorrow... they need a good flash |
| 23:47.28 | Stephmw | 'night guys |
| 23:47.31 | mjr | Anyway, if you think you're getting screwed over, don't buy it. This is just unproductive. |
| 23:47.48 | [lankester] | exact |
| 23:47.51 | Tetraden | mjr: i didnt know about the mailing lists until last monday |
| 23:47.53 | [lankester] | go buy a windows mobile phone |
| 23:48.19 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] |
| 23:52.02 | noidd | o an iphone |
| 23:52.09 | noidd | Greetings all. |
| 23:52.13 | [lankester] | too expensive :p |
| 23:52.13 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-4aee3e93545199da) |
| 23:52.15 | SpeedEvil | Tetraden: well - the information has been out there, readily available for several months now. |
| 23:52.22 | [lankester] | for him |
| 23:52.24 | [lankester] | he is poor |
| 23:52.33 | SpeedEvil | Nokia 1110. |
| 23:53.10 | [lankester] | damn I hate symbian |
| 23:53.40 | Tetraden | i already have an HTC device but the several hardware and software issues are driving me crazy |
| 23:53.56 | [lankester] | SpeedEvil: ;) |
| 23:54.12 | noidd | Well, why don't you get on the mailing list with the hardware and software devs and ask them to help you with it? |
| 23:54.22 | noidd | Oh yeah, that's right. You can't. :-P |
| 23:54.34 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby-n800 (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 23:54.44 | noidd | this is the advantage of an open company. |
| 23:54.54 | *** join/#openmoko neostrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D643.dynamic.brdterra.com.br) |
| 23:55.07 | [lankester] | yeah but the close company wont LIE to him 1 years before the product goes out about the price |
| 23:55.10 | [lankester] | :P |
| 23:56.38 | rwhitby | [lankester]: who's been lying? |
| 23:57.09 | Tetraden | no, its not falsehood, its some kind of lack of information and this is really not necsessary in an open project. |
| 23:58.25 | rwhitby | Tetraden: only the software was promised to be open. quite separate from the hardware (which was never promised to be open from the beginning, but is somewhat open (e.g. svn commits) already. |
| 23:58.43 | rwhitby | no-one at FIC/OpenMoko ever promised to be open about marketing or manufacturing or sales. |
| 23:58.52 | SpeedEvil | The software is $0. Make your own phone. |
| 23:59.45 | CoreDump|home | Tetraden: would you please stop trolling |
| 23:59.52 | [lankester] | rwhitby: nobody .. it just that TeringTuby think that :p |
