| 00:18.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Wishlist:context_based_to-do_list]] [[User:Minime]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Talk:Wish_List]] [[Current_events]] [[User:Csdexter]] |
| 00:19.46 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@85-211-184-56.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:22.56 | balrog-kun | pavelm: just to check.. did you write the .jffs2 image and not one of the other ones? |
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| 00:38.08 | dietricha | counter |
| 00:38.09 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 17:40:55 (3.737±3.7 days) (1442;227) |
| 00:42.19 | [lankester] | list in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List#Phase_1 is messed up, somebody know why ? |
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| 01:36.25 | pavelm | balrog: yep, I did write jffs2 one... and the same image worked on phase0 ... |
| 01:36.34 | pavelm | good night everyone! |
| 01:37.12 | balrog-kun | good night |
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| 02:08.15 | _llll_ | what does GTA stand for? |
| 02:09.17 | SpeedEvil | Nobody knows. |
| 02:09.34 | SpeedEvil | GSM Test A |
| 02:09.40 | SpeedEvil | Grand Theft Auto |
| 02:09.52 | SpeedEvil | Gerbil Training Aparatus |
| 02:10.21 | _llll_ | k... what does it mean? is this a hardware revision? |
| 02:10.30 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 02:12.59 | _llll_ | ah, i see. sort of |
| 02:14.02 | aloril | we know there will be GTA03, laforge said so in that video in slide |
| 02:14.21 | aloril | but when and what it will be is completely unknown |
| 02:15.21 | aloril | and GTX01, GTX02 too which probably are quite far away (I guess maybe these are what will be announced Q3 or later) |
| 02:17.30 | aloril | well.. it has wrong day anyway ... |
| 02:18.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MFAQCorrection]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Web_Address_Field]] [[Talk:GSM_Communication_Infrastructure]] [[User:Cedel]] [[User:Speedevil]] |
| 02:18.57 | SpeedEvil | I should footnote mroe when I add stuff. |
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| 02:33.09 | holtmann | LaF0rge: Does anybody ever tested the Codec <-> BT PCM interaction? |
| 02:33.50 | holtmann | I do have the headset part working and we are sending data over the air, but there is still something wrong. |
| 02:35.48 | holtmann | Or do I have to do something more than "alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmbluetooth.state restore 0"? |
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| 03:09.37 | holtmann | mickey|fic: Can you get me bridge-utils package onto buildhost? |
| 03:10.21 | holtmann | Forget. I build it by myself. |
| 03:10.44 | holtmann | But in the future it would be nice to have it there. |
| 03:11.57 | holtmann | Why does bitbake bridge-utils has to build u-boot? |
| 03:13.32 | mickey|fic | no idea |
| 03:13.44 | mickey|fic | you can use bitbake -nv to print out the dependency chain (without building) |
| 03:17.53 | holtmann | NOTE: dependencies for bridge-utils are: autoconf-native automake-native libtool-native gnu-config-native ipkg-utils-native file-native fakeroot-native quilt-native virtual/arm-linux-gcc virtual/libc sysfsutils |
| 03:19.02 | holtmann | I wants to build the kernel :( |
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| 03:21.35 | holtmann | ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for task-base: |
| 03:21.35 | holtmann | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:21.44 | holtmann | This is also crap. We don't need blueprobe at all. |
| 03:22.46 | holtmann | I am going to re-flash this device. Where can I find the latest (really latest) image. I need a 2.6.21 kernel. |
| 03:26.07 | bmidgley | holtmann: you're playing with the bt headset? using a gsm call? |
| 03:27.36 | bmidgley | holtmann: i could get you an image I built 5 days ago from trunk... i'm attempting to build the latest now |
| 03:29.26 | mickey|fic | holtmann: try buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/latest |
| 03:31.17 | holtmann | Will try that after lunch. The big problem only seems to get the codec working. Hopefully it is wired up correctly. |
| 03:31.46 | mickey|fic | yeah, knocking on wood |
| 03:32.00 | bmidgley | holtmann: graeme posted a .state file that should route system audio to bt--might be easier than starting and stopping phone calls all the time |
| 03:32.12 | bmidgley | system audio *out* that is |
| 03:33.26 | bmidgley | fwiw, I have not been able to get stereo audio out of the phone... comes out mixed down to mono |
| 03:35.03 | holtmann | I have a local SIM card. So that is fine. |
| 03:35.24 | holtmann | Did you get anything to the BT PCM at all and then over the air. |
| 03:36.21 | bmidgley | I could never get the neo to complete a phone call and I haven't tried graeme's system audio out thing yet |
| 03:36.36 | bmidgley | I had to give back the sim i was borrowing :( |
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| 03:42.38 | bmidgley | Elrond: you were asking about evesdropping on bluetooth |
| 03:45.01 | bmidgley | Elrond: very funny article by one of csr's best... http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.bluez.devel/10041 |
| 03:47.05 | holtmann | mickey|fic: I also need the latest u-boot. Something is wrong with this one :( |
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| 03:58.23 | mickey|fic | holtmann: same server, one directory up. be sure to chose the matching one |
| 04:01.54 | holtmann | Done that before ;) |
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| 04:09.50 | holtmann | JFFS2 error 175 :( |
| 04:10.47 | mickey|fic | sounds like you stumbled over 419 |
| 04:10.49 | mickey|fic | !ombug 419 |
| 04:10.51 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 419, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 04:10.52 | cdbot2 | * * mickey(AT)vanille-media.de: dfu download doesn't clean jffs2 partition |
| 04:10.53 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=419 |
| 04:11.14 | mickey|fic | please go into u-boot boot menu, log in via usb, and nand erase rootfs |
| 04:11.21 | mickey|fic | then flash rootfs via dfu upload again |
| 04:12.11 | holtmann | It is DFU download :) |
| 04:12.22 | holtmann | You download it into the device :) |
| 04:13.07 | mickey|fic | hmm that depends on your point of view ;) |
| 04:13.31 | holtmann | The specification is quite clear about it, but I know that is confuses everybody ;) |
| 04:13.39 | mickey|fic | yeah |
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| 04:18.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Connecting_GTA01Bv2_with_Debug_Board]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Category:Ideas]] |
| 04:20.54 | holtmann | Now it works again. |
| 04:30.05 | holtmann | mickey|fic: Are GSM calls work with the latest build or is gsmd broken. |
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| 05:33.01 | littertiger001 | Hi, When it's playing music, a phone call comes. What will happen? pause music or .. ? |
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| 05:36.45 | littertiger001 | Hi, When it's playing music, a phone call comes. What will happen? pause music or .. ? |
| 05:39.55 | aloril | littertiger001: what do you want to happen? ;-) |
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| 06:06.01 | littertiger001 | If an app wants to play sound, does it have to handle man kinds of events? phone call interrupt eg. |
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| 06:18.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Video_Player]] [[Talk:Hardware:AT_Commands]] [[Address_Field]] [[Talk:Sound_/_Recording_Preview]] [[Dbus_device_API]] [[Wishlist:3D_Viewport]] [[Talk:Help_Viewer]] [[Action_Button]] [[Talk:Event_Field]] [[Phone_Number_Field]] [[Talk:S3c2410_boot_usb]] |
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| 07:32.34 | Sup3rkiddo | can nyp |
| 07:32.59 | Sup3rkiddo | *can anyone take a look at http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=602 and give me a hint, really freaking me out |
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| 07:36.45 | roh | Sup3rkiddo eh.. did you install the resulting ipkg on the machine afterwards? |
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| 07:37.23 | Sup3rkiddo | roh, yeah it works like that...but i thought it would get installed automatically |
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| 07:39.21 | Stephmw | mornin' |
| 07:40.54 | roh | Sup3rkiddo nope. by default only some packages defined in the bb jungle are packed in. but everything gets built into ipks by default |
| 07:41.57 | Sup3rkiddo | roh, oh no wonder...any idea how i could get my packages to be packed in |
| 07:41.59 | pH5 | Sup3rkiddo: if you want to have your packages in your images, you have to make the image recipe (or the task recipes that it depends on) recommend them. |
| 07:42.54 | roh | Sup3rkiddo https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/oe/packages/images/openmoko-devel-image.bb is what pulls all the other stuff with it |
| 07:43.19 | Sup3rkiddo | roh, thanks for the hint |
| 07:43.42 | roh | it references tasks in here https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/oe/packages/tasks/ .. but i have no clue where to add such a package to correctly |
| 07:46.57 | Sup3rkiddo | roh, wait a sec, i dont see python there...but python got installed just be adding it to local.conf.. |
| 07:47.04 | Sup3rkiddo | *by |
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| 07:52.28 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 07:52.40 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 07:54.49 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 08:16.59 | holtmann | LaF0rge: Are any of the Wolfson guys online somewhere. The audio routing is not working. |
| 08:18.13 | roh | holtmann he's in some meeting i think |
| 08:18.55 | koen | holtmann: Graeme is on holiday this week |
| 08:19.08 | koen | holtmann: your best bet is to mail liam |
| 08:19.11 | holtmann | I have the headset working, but no audio is going from the codec to the chip. The audio over the air is perfectly fine. |
| 08:20.36 | holtmann | I need someone online to walk me through it. There must be something really broken with the codec and its settings. |
| 08:20.56 | *** part/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 08:21.01 | koen | lrg <n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 7d 15m 22s ago, saying: 'morning koen, hrw, XorA '. |
| 08:21.09 | koen | liam hasnt been online for a week |
| 08:23.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[System_Info]] [[Talk:Using_Subversion]] [[Talk:Stylus]] [[Talk:Call_Preview]] [[Category:ToDo]] [[Video_Player]] [[Talk:Hardware:AT_Commands]] [[Address_Field]] |
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| 08:35.16 | LuitvD | counter |
| 08:35.16 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 13:42:22 (3.571±3.6 days) (1443;227) |
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| 08:44.23 | Azlan | nice active chanell here i see |
| 08:44.48 | LuitvD | it comes and goes |
| 08:44.57 | Azlan | true |
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| 08:45.39 | Azlan | i got 5 diff chanells open for different things, and none of them have decent convos goin - damn mornings |
| 08:46.20 | stefan_schmidt | ~botmail zecke http://www.atoker.com/blog/2007/06/12/webkitgtk-is-coming/ |
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| 08:52.37 | CM | stefan_schmidt: alp is hanging out in this channel too ;) |
| 08:53.37 | stefan_schmidt | CM: Nice, so he and zecke should coordinate the efforts for webkitgtk. But perhaps they have already. :) |
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| 08:55.56 | CM | stefan_schmidt: They should. Looks like a great browser to have on the neo :) |
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| 08:56.52 | stefan_schmidt | CM: I never used it, but only heard good stuff about the engine |
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| 09:29.17 | holtmann | LaF0rge: How busy are you? |
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| 09:32.35 | LaF0rge | holtmann: very, sorry :( |
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| 09:34.04 | LuitvD | LaF0rge: very busy, and enjoying it? |
| 09:34.23 | stefan_schmidt | holtmann: lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) has joined #oe five minutes ago |
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| 09:39.13 | holtmann | LaF0rge: It might be worse to check if the PCM of the Buetooth chip is wired up correctly. I only get silence. So either the wiring is wrong or the codec is not switch on. |
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| 09:39.30 | holtmann | s/worse/worth/ |
| 09:41.30 | LaF0rge | holtmann: I don't think anyone has ever tested the full bluetooth/pcm integration, since audio people don't understand bluetooth and vice versa |
| 09:42.07 | holtmann | Maybe only the codec is off. However I don't know how to fix that. the gsmbluetooth.state file does nothing. |
| 09:42.08 | LaF0rge | holtmann: not sure if it is the best idea to try to debug this at the plugfest, sounds like a bit of a waste of time to me |
| 09:42.43 | holtmann | If we only have to switch on the codec then it is fine. I am not debugging the hardware. |
| 09:43.26 | holtmann | I spoke with the CSR guys and the air traces show that the PCM of the Bluetooth chip is on and working as expected. So the problem is our hardware. |
| 09:44.22 | LaF0rge | holtmann: ok, good to know about the CSR side |
| 09:45.25 | holtmann | That we see air traces with silence also means that the PCM is connected somehow, but it doesn't get anything. |
| 09:45.58 | holtmann | So either IN and OUT are swapped or the codec routing is broken. The first one would be bad. The second should be fixable. |
| 09:46.10 | *** join/#openmoko Herod2k (n=herod@82.84.50.230) |
| 09:50.12 | LaF0rge | i suppose it really might be a codec power/config/routing issue |
| 09:50.12 | LaF0rge | there's the DAC config, the audio routing, the various mixers, the LM amp, ... |
| 09:50.34 | holtmann | I know, but alone by myself, I can't make sense out of it :( |
| 09:50.44 | LaF0rge | I (and probably a number of other people here) would probably have tested it, if they would understand how to get the BT side to the point where it feeds PCM data |
| 09:51.08 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 09:51.33 | LaF0rge | but unfortunately I have to admit that I never ever got any bluez beyond hcidump working on any of my systems (Desktop, Laptop, Moko,...), despite many hours :( |
| 09:52.12 | holtmann | I have to do some cleanups within my packages, but I can then put them online for testing. The only missing part is a UI and so you have to do it with Python, but that is really simple. |
| 09:52.36 | LaF0rge | I've read parts of the kernel code, but I have failed to even get it to pair. apparently you need all kinds of strange desktop things that I don't have for pin entry or so) |
| 09:53.08 | holtmann | I am also going to do a new release this week. To get the fixes from the last two days into a released version. |
| 09:53.17 | LaF0rge | ok, thanks a lot for all your work. |
| 09:53.36 | holtmann | LaF0rge: The pairing part is simple if you know what you are doing. The desktop nowadays has a fancy icon ;) |
| 09:53.58 | LaF0rge | holtmann: I hate all the desktop technologies ;) |
| 09:54.09 | LaF0rge | holtmann: I just want something on the commandline |
| 09:54.18 | holtmann | Hey. I am using command line only here. |
| 09:54.19 | holtmann | The Bluetooth chip init is still a hack, but at least one that works reliable now. |
| 09:54.22 | LaF0rge | holtmann: to me, X just serves as terminal multiplexer |
| 09:54.40 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@220.Red-83-32-166.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 09:54.40 | LaF0rge | holtmann: init: great. |
| 09:54.50 | holtmann | Me too, but lately I had to do UI programming and I hate ;) |
| 09:55.01 | LaF0rge | holtmann: when I'm saying "I", I'm speaking about me personally, on my laptop/desktop systems |
| 09:55.14 | LaF0rge | I own three BT keyboards but have failed to get any to work with any of my linux boxes. |
| 09:55.16 | ewon | I've been getting back into C++ |
| 09:55.40 | holtmann | You can try with the Neo1973 next week ;) |
| 09:55.47 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 09:56.14 | holtmann | The only missing part is the Bluetooth address change, but since Delta somehow delivers valid addresses, it is not worth it to worry about it for GTA01 |
| 09:57.14 | holtmann | lrg: I am trying to connect headsets to the Neo1973 and everything works fine except that the PCM part of the Bluetooth chip doesn't get any audio data from the codec. |
| 09:57.17 | LaF0rge | did you check those addresses are indeed allocated to delta? |
| 09:57.43 | ewon | hmmm, one of those fold-out rubber keyboards with a BT transceiver in it could be useful |
| 09:57.48 | holtmann | Yes they are. If you have a oui.txt installed, most BlueZ will decode it for you. |
| 09:58.20 | holtmann | ewon: Will work, but currently no UI. So you have to use the command line to connect it |
| 09:58.29 | ewon | hmmm |
| 09:58.52 | Sup3rkiddo | anyone knpw how do i add an ipk from qemu? |
| 09:59.28 | holtmann | LaF0rge: And I had to do an ugly hack since /var is tmpfs. That is not good. |
| 09:59.43 | holtmann | We need /var/lib to be persistent. |
| 09:59.54 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 10:00.07 | holtmann | Actually only /var/run should be volatile according to FHS. |
| 10:00.20 | lrg | holtmann: there is a small command line app that starts the codec voice interface (iirc, it's connected to the BT PCM on the neo). XorA has posted this on his page, although I don't know if it's in svn |
| 10:00.44 | lrg | holtmann: unfortunately XorA is on vacation until next Monday |
| 10:01.09 | holtmann | I need a link to it. Anybody? |
| 10:01.44 | holtmann | I was calling alsactl -f /etc/alsa/gsmbluetooth.state restore 0, but that seems not be enough. |
| 10:02.02 | lrg | holtmann: http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/ |
| 10:02.18 | mickey_fic | http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/bluetooth-pcm/bluetooth_pcm.c ? |
| 10:02.58 | lrg | mickey_fic: that's the one |
| 10:03.10 | holtmann | Lets give it a try. |
| 10:03.30 | holtmann | Is there an easy way to cross-compile it within bitbake without having a package? |
| 10:03.30 | lrg | holtmann, mickey_fic: this just opens the voice PCM and starts PCM transfer. |
| 10:03.33 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@bas3-toronto47-1279334471.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 10:03.55 | lrg | holtmann: afaik, not atm ;( |
| 10:04.42 | mickey_fic | holtmann: not really, however you could just call tmp/cross/bin/arm-linux-gcc directly |
| 10:04.47 | lrg | holtmann: fwiw, I'm pretty sure XorA tested it as much as he could at the time |
| 10:04.52 | LaF0rge | mickey: needs staging for alsa-lib |
| 10:04.58 | mickey_fic | ya |
| 10:05.06 | mickey_fic | -Ltmp/staging/arm-linux/lib |
| 10:05.28 | mickey_fic | i can turn this into a bb recipe if needed |
| 10:06.17 | pavelm_zzz | laf0rge: If you want to see bluetooth in action... it is very simple to do on openmoko |
| 10:06.37 | pavelm_zzz | laf0rge: I have example scripts to set up bluetooth gps and bluetooth network on my blog. |
| 10:07.00 | pavelm | laf0rge: And if you have bluetooth keyboard you don't need... I'd gladly play with one ;-)). |
| 10:07.23 | florian | good morning |
| 10:08.08 | ewon | coutner |
| 10:08.10 | ewon | counter |
| 10:08.10 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 12:55:54 (3.539±3.5 days) (1444;227) |
| 10:08.11 | lrg | hey florian |
| 10:09.28 | ewon | \o/ |
| 10:09.57 | holtmann | I have a compiler on one my phones, but no libasound2-dev :( |
| 10:09.57 | holtmann | Will integrate that into the headset daemon in the end. |
| 10:10.25 | ewon | why would you compile on the phone? Do you hate yourself? |
| 10:10.55 | pavelm | holtmann: Wow... do you have really small compiler setup... or really big microSD card that works? |
| 10:11.25 | gamin | LaF0rge: on Debian the maintainer of the bluez-utils has kicked out command-line management of the passkeys/PINs |
| 10:11.59 | gamin | you need to compile yourself /usr/share/doc/bluez-utils/examples/passkey-agent.c |
| 10:13.00 | holtmann | pavelm: In the flash of the v3 hardware. |
| 10:13.03 | koen | holtmann: OE has a '-c devshell' to setup the crosscompile env |
| 10:13.18 | koen | holtmann: I don't know if openmoko supports that (probably not) |
| 10:13.38 | holtmann | mickey_fic,koen: Got it compiled. Lets see if it works. |
| 10:14.50 | holtmann | Lets find a headset. |
| 10:15.01 | koen | I remember sayin gthat that .c file was ugly an not working a few weeks ago |
| 10:15.42 | *** join/#openmoko LWT001 (n=lwt@61.145.139.91) |
| 10:22.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Talk:USB_DFU]] |
| 10:23.19 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 10:29.46 | holtmann | Not working, but maybe because I flashed the new image into it. I can't even get the GSM calls working. So I should have tried with the original image that comes with v4 hardware. |
| 10:33.27 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 10:38.24 | holtmann | Which image version has the GSM phone call part working? I am going to test that image again. Must be the original one that came with v4 hardware. |
| 10:39.28 | balrog-kun | friday's image worked for me |
| 10:40.36 | pavelm | Bye bye, everyone, go to do some swimming. |
| 10:46.39 | holtmann | balrog-kun: With a 2.6.21 kernel? |
| 10:47.22 | holtmann | openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070608074943.rootfs.jffs2 ??? |
| 10:49.19 | balrog-kun | holtmann: yes, 2.6.21.3 |
| 10:49.45 | balrog-kun | holtmann: and yes, exactly this file |
| 10:50.21 | holtmann | 2189 kernel? |
| 10:50.44 | balrog-kun | nope, locally built, non-modular |
| 10:51.43 | balrog-kun | i can put it up on www but i would first suspect thing like the SIM not making contact correctly or something, if calling isn't working |
| 10:51.58 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2217 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/src/contacts-history.c: Check if entry returns NULL for its contact-uid property, before using it in strcmp() and segfaulting |
| 10:52.25 | balrog-kun | holtmann: do you hear the typical GSM interference in speakers nearby when Neo boots? |
| 10:52.44 | holtmann | Never had that, but was never near a speaker. |
| 10:53.12 | balrog-kun | hmm ok |
| 10:53.37 | Vegar | will the SIM contact issues be fixed in GTA02? |
| 10:54.10 | balrog-kun | i open /dev/ttySAC0 under "cu" and issue "AT+CIMI" when i need to check that the SIM works |
| 10:58.25 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-138-183.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
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| 10:59.46 | Elrond | balrog-kun - About the "other people": You're hlaf of them, cause I hope for Bv03 testers. ;) |
| 11:01.26 | balrog-kun | :) |
| 11:07.35 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2218 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/src/moko-journal.c: Call notify_entry_added on pre-existing entries as well as those that are new |
| 11:08.57 | holtmann | balrog-kun: The friday image has a startup sound, but GSM is not working :( |
| 11:09.19 | holtmann | And it is a bad idea to flash the rootfs into the kernel partition :) |
| 11:12.50 | Elrond | *G* |
| 11:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@host86-152-203-168.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:13.11 | Elrond | holtmann - As long, as you don't flash it into the u-boot or u-boot-env partition, everything is okay. :) |
| 11:13.18 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009094136.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 11:13.40 | holtmann | Did already v3 boot loader into v4 hardware. So nothing more worse can happen. |
| 11:13.56 | holtmann | AT+CIMI gives me the IMEI. So system should be up. |
| 11:14.20 | Elrond | holtmann - yuck. You had to use the debug board to get the right u-boot back in there? |
| 11:14.38 | holtmann | In the end I had to give it to Harald to fix it. |
| 11:14.54 | holtmann | The GSM calls are not working. Must be the kernel :( |
| 11:15.08 | Elrond | holtmann - You have the debug board? |
| 11:15.13 | holtmann | yes. |
| 11:15.39 | Elrond | So why didn't you unbrick it yourself? |
| 11:16.15 | holtmann | I did, but somehow totally screwed up the u-boot-env partition and the OCD was not really cooperative. |
| 11:16.32 | Elrond | Hum. |
| 11:17.01 | Elrond | Herod2k - please speak english. |
| 11:17.36 | Elrond | holtmann - I had the hope, that unbricking would be straight forward. :-| |
| 11:18.54 | holtmann | Not that easy. |
| 11:21.07 | holtmann | I give up for today. Will start with brand new phone tomorrow ;0 |
| 11:21.43 | *** join/#openmoko ich (n=ich@gprs-pool-1-020.eplus-online.de) |
| 11:22.35 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A361CC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:23.02 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2219 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (dialer-window-dialer.c dialer-window-history.c): openmoko-dialer: Remove hard coded widget sizes (bug 600) |
| 11:23.22 | Elrond | holtmann - "brand new phone"? |
| 11:23.45 | Elrond | !ombug 600 |
| 11:23.47 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 600, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 11:23.48 | cdbot2 | * * philipp.zabel(AT)gmail.com: openmoko-dialer hardcodes widget sizes |
| 11:23.49 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=600 |
| 11:24.45 | *** join/#openmoko nobody96 (n=nobody99@p5B223049.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:25.00 | nobody96 | moin |
| 11:26.27 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=erdinger@f049185170.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:26.28 | dcordes | what's that LiPS stuff about? |
| 11:27.32 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
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| 11:33.09 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2220 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/src/moko-journal.c: Make sure entry variable is set to NULL for each iteration, to stop overwriting other entries |
| 11:37.07 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@222-155-151-57.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 11:42.50 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2221 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-footer/src/Makefile.am: openmoko-footer: fix distcheck |
| 11:45.37 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning1 (n=blueligh@222-155-137-130.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
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| 12:24.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Media_Content]] [[Talk:Auto-complete]] [[Sample_Native-Finger_Application]] [[Sketchbook]] [[Translation]] [[Talk:Message_Preview]] [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Press_Coverage]] |
| 12:30.33 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:42.58 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.92.99) |
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| 12:57.56 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2222 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-history.c: Update counter when a new entry is added |
| 12:59.17 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2223 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/src/moko-time.c: Swap icaltime_today () for icaltime_from_timet_with_zone (), as the former does not keep the actual 'time', just the date. |
| 13:06.39 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 13:09.55 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2224 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-history.c: Changed history label from 'History-' to 'Call History - ', bug #435 |
| 13:17.22 | Cyphi^ | Hi guys |
| 13:18.08 | cheesy | counter |
| 13:18.10 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 11:20:55 (3.473±3.5 days) (1445;227) |
| 13:18.29 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 13:18.43 | cheesy | 3 days everyday :) |
| 13:19.36 | CM | Information is scarce, but we never run out of hope.. ;) |
| 13:24.29 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 13:24.35 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A548D7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:29.25 | aloril | combined hope is 75%, but it lasts until 2007-07-07 |
| 13:29.49 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 13:53.14 | Elrond | Do we have a wiki page for the GTA02? |
| 13:56.53 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=Free_mac@guest17.crihan.fr) |
| 13:58.01 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.219.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 14:04.28 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@s15244973.onlinehome-server.info) |
| 14:06.09 | aloril | Elrond: no, except what is at [[Neo19739] |
| 14:11.47 | *** part/#openmoko gamin (n=m@car06-3-82-240-156-91.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:19.20 | parag0n | i think i'm going to wait until the gta02 |
| 14:21.24 | xkr47 | heh there should be a "free phone club" just like there are record clubs etc.. you get a new phone model every 6 months and you pay some nice fee and if you don't like it you can send it back :D |
| 14:22.21 | balrog-kun | where's the "free" part in this? |
| 14:23.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo]] [[Talk:Popup_Menu]] [[Talk:Search]] [[Connecting_GTA01Bv2_with_Debug_Board]] [[Clock]] [[Talk:Neo1973_Battery]] [[Wish_List]] [[User_talk:Speedevil]] [[Terminal]] [[Talk:Unit_Converter]] and other changes |
| 14:25.42 | LetoTo | free as in crack? |
| 14:29.14 | *** join/#openmoko theholyduck (n=theholyd@ti231210a340-1872.bb.online.no) |
| 14:29.29 | LuitvD | LetoTo: where? :P |
| 14:29.48 | *** join/#openmoko kiney (n=kiney@p54882016.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:29.52 | kiney | counter |
| 14:29.53 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 10:45:03 (3.448±3.4 days) (1446;227) |
| 14:29.58 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:38.28 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
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| 14:48.27 | *** join/#openmoko duffyd (n=tim@218-162-180-78.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 14:49.29 | duffyd | starting any week now, is that *soon*? |
| 14:50.01 | SpeedEvil | Any week also includes the first week of December 2084 |
| 14:50.09 | duffyd | lol |
| 14:50.11 | Stephmw | hahaha |
| 14:50.25 | SpeedEvil | In astronomical time, it's soon. |
| 14:50.44 | ewon | in geological time, a mere heartbeat. |
| 14:51.08 | duffyd | I wonder if anyone knows *which factory* in China - could probably go there and get one ;-) |
| 14:51.22 | SpeedEvil | There are reputedly 200 made. |
| 14:51.28 | SpeedEvil | In the first batch. |
| 14:51.31 | ewon | that involves going to freaking China |
| 14:51.35 | SpeedEvil | Whihc are undergoing QA |
| 14:52.03 | ewon | which means an angry politburo member shouting at them until they break and renounce capitalism |
| 14:52.03 | duffyd | ahhh |
| 14:52.08 | DukeOfURL | Matbe the QA isn't going that well... |
| 14:52.10 | duffyd | lol |
| 14:52.16 | duffyd | doh, hope not |
| 14:52.39 | duffyd | this is like 'geek gossip' - or waiting for paint to dry or grass to grow :-( |
| 14:52.47 | ewon | easier to just wait for the inevitable chinese knockoff |
| 14:53.03 | ewon | lot of these chinese factories do the customer's run during the day, and their own run at night :) |
| 14:53.19 | duffyd | lol |
| 14:53.33 | duffyd | well if it is anything like Taiwan I would believe it :-) |
| 14:53.34 | SpeedEvil | And done some painting. |
| 14:54.07 | SpeedEvil | They're good at that, true. |
| 14:54.28 | ewon | stupidest fucking creatures alive, but they have their uses |
| 14:54.38 | SpeedEvil | Nope. |
| 14:54.42 | DukeOfURL | SpeedEvil: the space between your new wall and the concrete--are you going to blow insulation into that space? |
| 14:54.43 | SpeedEvil | Chickens. |
| 14:54.51 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: no. |
| 14:55.03 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: 8-10cm glassfibre |
| 14:55.17 | SpeedEvil | gets pushed over the emplaced pegs after slits have been cut in it. |
| 14:55.18 | DukeOfURL | R38 |
| 14:55.21 | ewon | SpeedEvil: a chicken won't get caught on some barbed wire and stand there and wait to die. |
| 14:56.02 | SpeedEvil | Turn a chicken upside down, and it'll sit there for 10-20 mins. |
| 14:56.11 | DukeOfURL | SpeedEvil: should be nice and cozy |
| 14:56.40 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: Hopefully. |
| 14:56.42 | ewon | SpeedEvil: really? nice |
| 14:57.05 | SpeedEvil | ewon: it's some sort of anti-predator thing. 'stop moving, and maybe it won't eat me'. |
| 14:57.12 | ewon | hah |
| 14:57.43 | SpeedEvil | Sheep OTOH tend to get rather upset when you do that. |
| 14:58.04 | ewon | I've been bitten by more than one sheep in my time |
| 14:58.13 | duffyd | btw is there anyone from the southern hemisphere here? |
| 14:58.59 | SpeedEvil | ewon: A lot of it is breeding. |
| 14:59.24 | *** join/#openmoko tr1 (n=tri@p57ADCC79.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:00.26 | SpeedEvil | Your average 'wild' sheep is _way_ different from the ones that have had a thousand years or more of breeding to be placid and easy to handle. |
| 15:00.34 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2225 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (3 files): * openmoko-dialer: remove hardcoded font sizes from dialer buttons (bug 600) |
| 15:01.08 | ewon | SpeedEvil: good point, don't think I'd want to try and dose a wild sheep :) |
| 15:01.23 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. Farm/smallholding/...? |
| 15:02.33 | ewon | <-- once upon a time was an agircultural science student |
| 15:03.10 | ewon | these days, my dad owns a school, which has a small farm on it for said Ag Science students |
| 15:03.15 | ewon | s/owns/runs/ |
| 15:04.19 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@141.60.168.3) |
| 15:07.47 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@61-217-193-173.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 15:09.47 | duffyd | hi LaF0rge - you're in Taiwan! I'm Tim Knapp the guy from the tossug meetup (the Plone guy) |
| 15:10.47 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.54.139) |
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| 15:16.04 | Stephmw | oh noes! mickey's been branded! :) |
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| 15:16.37 | mickey_fic | hehe |
| 15:16.40 | mickey_fic | hi stefan_schmidt |
| 15:16.41 | mickey_fic | oops |
| 15:16.44 | mickey_fic | hi Stephmw as well |
| 15:16.52 | duffyd | mickey_fic: appears you're in Taiwan too :-) |
| 15:16.58 | duffyd | mickey_fic: I'm in Taichung |
| 15:17.11 | mickey_fic | ah fun, what are you doing here? |
| 15:17.32 | duffyd | just learning Chinese. I'm a Plone developer by trade (http://kokorice.org) |
| 15:17.47 | Elrond | SpeedEvil is our major wiki-spam buster. :-) |
| 15:17.58 | duffyd | thought while I was here I could grab myself a Neo :-) |
| 15:18.27 | Sup3rkiddo | how do i install ipks from qemu, will adding the ipks to the rootf tarball and then using the application installer to install it, work |
| 15:18.34 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 15:18.59 | Stephmw | hehe |
| 15:19.00 | Sup3rkiddo | *rootfs |
| 15:19.41 | Elrond | Sup3rkiddo - "ipkg install foo.ipk" inside the running system. I usually scp them into the machine. |
| 15:20.00 | Elrond | Sup3rkiddo - Of course wget'ing from the machine also works. |
| 15:20.36 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:21.20 | Sup3rkiddo | Elrond, thanks for the hint....how do i scp...i guess the qemu system is a self contained one without access to outside world..am i right? |
| 15:22.43 | alphaone | And if you bitbake package-index you can copy the files onto a webserver and use ipkg feeds |
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| 15:25.50 | Sup3rkiddo | whoa...thats a bit too much imho.....any idea how i can install stuff during the make openmoko-devel-image? |
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| 15:34.47 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03alphaone * r2226 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-events-area.c): |
| 15:34.47 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/today-events-area.c: (init_left_hand_side): Check if icon is |
| 15:34.47 | CIA-24 | openmoko: NULL befor unref'ing (prevents segfaulting on older gtk versions) |
| 15:35.18 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 15:37.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2227 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/ (configure.ac data/Makefile.am src/Makefile.am src/alsa.h): * openmoko-dialer: Apply patch from bug 532 (make distcheck and autotools-related improvements) |
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| 15:41.02 | alphaone | Sup3rkiddo: try adding a package to a task that gets included in openmoko-devel-image.bb |
| 15:41.25 | alphaone | But I'm not entirely sure how to do that |
| 15:41.38 | Sup3rkiddo | alphaone, i had already added to the sdk thing in that file... |
| 15:41.46 | mickey_fic | edit task-openmoko.bb |
| 15:41.55 | mickey_fic | add something to either subtask |
| 15:42.09 | Sup3rkiddo | ah..so i was editing the wrong file then |
| 15:42.56 | Sup3rkiddo | done added it to RDEPENDS_task-openmoko-native-sdk |
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| 16:06.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2228 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-stock.c libmokoui/moko-stock.h): |
| 16:06.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.c: |
| 16:06.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.h: |
| 16:06.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Add Dial and History stock items for openmoko-dialer |
| 16:08.19 | *** part/#openmoko jsmanrique (n=jsmanriq@cme-212-89-8-169.telecable.es) |
| 16:09.50 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 16:13.20 | hrw | bye |
| 16:16.46 | CoreDump | hi |
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| 16:18.44 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2229 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2440.patch: use correct PLL dividers for 12MHz (hxd8 has 16.9344, gta02 12 DUH!) |
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| 16:23.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Wish_List]] [[Talk:Templates]] [[Community_Events]] [[Talk:Style_Sheet]] [[Dfu-util/bg]] [[Wish_List]] |
| 16:23.56 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-169-183-182.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 16:33.54 | Sup3rkiddo | oh dang...adding my app name to task-openmoko.bb doesnt work...ie, my app not getting installed in the final build |
| 16:35.50 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: moment |
| 16:36.36 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: Step-by-Step. You have a bb file with builds your app |
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| 16:36.47 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, yup..check |
| 16:36.51 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: bitbake your-app works? |
| 16:37.03 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, yup..ipks are generated properly |
| 16:37.12 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: ok, fine |
| 16:37.54 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: And where do you have added it for task-openmoko? |
| 16:38.19 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, i first added it in the sdk, part...now added it to debug.... |
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| 16:38.58 | Sup3rkiddo | that is task-openmoko-debug |
| 16:39.06 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: Why that categories? I would suggest bas or core for the first try. |
| 16:39.10 | mickey_fic | don't forget to bump PR |
| 16:39.19 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, right |
| 16:39.24 | Sup3rkiddo | mickey_fic, i have to? |
| 16:39.28 | mickey_fic | ya |
| 16:39.30 | stefan_schmidt | mickey_fic: That would be the next step :) |
| 16:39.36 | mickey_fic | sorry :) |
| 16:39.43 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 16:39.43 | Sup3rkiddo | i missed the bumping part |
| 16:39.50 | stefan_schmidt | mickey_fic: np, help from the wizard is always good |
| 16:40.07 | Sup3rkiddo | thanks guys...will pester you again if it doesnt work :P |
| 16:40.14 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
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| 16:48.07 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2230 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/openmoko-standard/ (7 files in 2 dirs): |
| 16:48.07 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * icons: add call history and dial icons |
| 16:48.07 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * icons: rename go-back and go-forward files |
| 16:49.26 | *** join/#openmoko fcarvalho (n=fcarvalh@200.184.118.132) |
| 16:49.28 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@gw1.panoulu.net) |
| 16:49.33 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2231 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-dialer.c: openmoko-dialer: use stock icons in delete/history/dial buttons |
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| 16:54.35 | joseph | anyboyd has an idea how log does it take to boot neo1973 |
| 16:54.51 | atla | i could spread some fud :> |
| 16:55.33 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2232 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/ (configure.ac openmoko-standard/36x36/stock/Makefile.am): icons: fix build and distcheck |
| 16:57.17 | Elrond | joseph - Ask me in about 4 hours, then I can take a stop watch and tell you. |
| 16:57.50 | Sup3rkiddo | come on it aint that bad |
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| 17:03.49 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2233 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (ChangeLog libmokoui/moko-stock.c libmokoui/moko-stock.h): |
| 17:03.49 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.c: |
| 17:03.49 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * libmokoui/moko-stock.h: |
| 17:03.49 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Add call missed/recieved/dialed stock items |
| 17:07.09 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=huhh@3e44aa41.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 17:07.36 | MetaBookfoziS | counter |
| 17:07.37 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 09:26:11 (3.393±3.4 days) (1447;227) |
| 17:10.46 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 17:11.12 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - What trickery do you use to catch all the spam? |
| 17:11.55 | SpeedEvil | A script that barks, and auto-loads the page into FF. |
| 17:12.11 | SpeedEvil | I should write something better. |
| 17:13.16 | Elrond | So you reload the recentchanges every few minutes using that script? |
| 17:13.33 | *** join/#openmoko alUrdun_ (n=jordan@64.180.94.253) |
| 17:14.12 | SpeedEvil | 30s - looking at only the deltas since last time. |
| 17:14.27 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 17:15.37 | Elrond | I tried the rss feed a month ago, but it's horribly outdated. |
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| 17:33.25 | xuxa | Is there any introductory documentation for developing applications for openmoko? I'm looking for a "how to write your first openmoko app" howto... |
| 17:34.52 | Sup3rkiddo | xuxa, i found this helpful http://bec-systems.com/web/content/view/59/9/ |
| 17:35.22 | xuxa | thank you Sup3rkiddo ! |
| 17:35.39 | Sup3rkiddo | xuxa, np :D |
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| 17:44.17 | Basheri | heh, i was about to ask the same question, so thx Sup3rkiddo =) |
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| 17:52.00 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 603 has been created by werner@openmoko.org |
| 17:52.01 | cdbot2 | * * timeout at boot menu while typing ? |
| 17:52.02 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=603 |
| 17:52.09 | *** join/#openmoko ml8128__ (n=ml8128@86.73.139.102) |
| 17:52.10 | Basheri | btw, i've been living under a rock for a while - what's the state of wlan-stuff? |
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| 18:03.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03werner * r2234 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/boot-menu.patch: (log message trimmed) |
| 18:03.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: board/neo1973/common/bootmenu.c, common/Makefile: moved platform-independent |
| 18:03.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: code to common/bootmenu.c (only compiled if CFG_BOOTMENU is set) |
| 18:03.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: include/bootmenu.h: boot menu constants and prototypes |
| 18:03.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: common/bootmenu.c: removed special-casing of first and last menu entry |
| 18:03.26 | CIA-24 | openmoko: board/neo1973/common/bootmenu.c, board/neo1973/gta01/gta01.c (board_late_init), |
| 18:03.28 | CIA-24 | openmoko: board/neo1973/common/neo1973.h: renamed "bootmenu" to neo1973_bootmenu |
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| 18:11.40 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, ping |
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| 18:12.44 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: pong |
| 18:13.26 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, didnt work..i added the app name in task-openmoko-core...and bumped the PR as well.. |
| 18:14.20 | Sup3rkiddo | but in the process set my PR to 4444 accidentally!...now i cant bring it down..can i? |
| 18:15.00 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: I don't know it off-hand if you can downgrade it. |
| 18:15.25 | koen | you can, but now with current openmoko |
| 18:15.43 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: Besides adding it to core and bumping RP I have not much ideas left. Do you read the bitbake manual |
| 18:15.56 | *** part/#openmoko albino (i=albino@72.8.122.74) |
| 18:15.57 | stefan_schmidt | ? |
| 18:16.08 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5492A865.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:16.34 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, just gave a glance enough to write my own correct one..you reckon its my recipe? |
| 18:17.06 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: If the recipe builds fine that should not be a problem |
| 18:17.15 | Sup3rkiddo | can i take it, that bumping PR forces a recompile of uboot |
| 18:17.28 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: Can you upload the recipe somewhere? |
| 18:17.30 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, yeah it does..like i said, ipk is there in arm4t |
| 18:17.35 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5492A865.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:17.58 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, sure...i have even filed a bug report..http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=602 |
| 18:18.11 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: If you upload a diff to svn I test it later tonight |
| 18:18.25 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, diff of? |
| 18:19.07 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: Diff of the stuff you added to our svn. |
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| 18:19.56 | stefan_schmidt | koen: That's why mickeyl works on a new sync |
| 18:20.10 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, ok...but its too negligible...just an extra bb, and a line in task-openmoko.bb |
| 18:20.26 | kiney | counter |
| 18:20.27 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 08:49:46 (3.368±3.4 days) (1448;227) |
| 18:21.03 | koen | stefan_schmidt: I'll be glad to assist, but I need to be asked |
| 18:21.04 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host86-152-203-168.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:21.13 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: OK, the recipe in the bug is the current one? |
| 18:21.26 | koen | stefan_schmidt: roh didn't start spreading FUD this time about merging? |
| 18:21.39 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, wait..i guess it want uploaded properly... |
| 18:21.46 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, will pastebin it? |
| 18:21.54 | stefan_schmidt | koen: yeah, no idea how he handles that. Sorry. |
| 18:22.08 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: pastebin is fine |
| 18:22.48 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: But for using it I would need the source of the extension as well as the recipes point to a folder on your disk. :) |
| 18:23.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Media_Content]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Talk:Picture_Viewer]] [[Application_Menu]] [[Talk:Debug_Board_v1]] [[Talk:Templates]] |
| 18:23.27 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, the location is there on the bb?...promise me not to laugh at the source :| |
| 18:23.36 | Sup3rkiddo | s/bb?/bb |
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| 18:23.53 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: I promise. No problem as I never coded python . ;) |
| 18:24.21 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, pm me your email..i will send it asap |
| 18:24.38 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: stefan@openmoko.org |
| 18:25.44 | stefan_schmidt | koen: Personally I hope we come back closer to OE, but I also can understand mickey about having to much unknown variables. Perhaps a branch is really the way to go. |
| 18:26.37 | koen | stefan_schmidt: I'd buy into the 'too many variables' if openmoko svn was actually working most of the time |
| 18:26.56 | stefan_schmidt | koen: But in the end it is mickey who has to decide. |
| 18:27.11 | koen | stefan_schmidt: after locking down the OE revision the overlay was having serious bugs most of the time that took _weeks_ to get fixed |
| 18:27.18 | stefan_schmidt | koen: Yeah, and know add problems with other progs and libs. :) |
| 18:27.39 | koen | you'll have to thank rwhitby on your bare knees for working around those in the makefile |
| 18:29.52 | stefan_schmidt | koen: I know we have tons of problems. And even some bigger ones then you notice during OE builds. |
| 18:29.56 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, its not a pure python code..but a mock extension module wrapping a function from libgsmd...its written in C, so you might LYAO |
| 18:29.59 | Sup3rkiddo | :P |
| 18:30.27 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: No need to worry. |
| 18:30.44 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, you got mail |
| 18:31.32 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: OK, I need to finish some other stuff before and take a look later |
| 18:32.06 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, sure...take your time..its way past midnight here...so would be swell if you could mail me instead |
| 18:32.45 | stefan_schmidt | Sup3rkiddo: That or I ping you tomorrow on IRC |
| 18:32.56 | koen | stefan_schmidt: lots of OE developers want to help out, but not if openmoko employees (like roh) keep saying OE is shit and insulting them |
| 18:33.00 | Sup3rkiddo | stefan_schmidt, sounds fair...thanks for your time |
| 18:33.10 | koen | emphasis on employees |
| 18:35.41 | stefan_schmidt | koen: I agree. Insulting people is never a solution. Even roh has to learn that we has chosen OE and will stay with it. |
| 18:36.29 | koen | the bit where he accused OE developers of sabotaging the fixed revision was hilarious |
| 18:36.30 | stefan_schmidt | Criticism needs to be based on facts and better proposals not ranting |
| 18:37.52 | stefan_schmidt | Seems I have missed that. |
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| 18:39.45 | Sup3rkiddo | night all.. |
| 18:40.58 | stefan_schmidt | koen: I really understand that you and the other OE devs are frustrated about the current situation. But in the end mickeyl is still one of your team and he tries to give it back to OE. |
| 18:41.17 | stefan_schmidt | koen: Even if it looks not that promising right now. :( |
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| 18:44.05 | stefan_schmidt | koen: But another point, how well is the small AVR32 board supported by OE now? I should get mine the next days. :) |
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| 18:49.27 | koen | stefan_schmidt: not well |
| 18:49.32 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:49.59 | stefan_schmidt | koen: Still on gcc/kernel/etc I guess |
| 18:50.40 | koen | pretty much |
| 18:51.23 | stefan_schmidt | koen: I will not have time for it in the next weeks anyway. :) |
| 18:51.54 | *** join/#openmoko k3ntropy (n=k3sempro@211-74-105-62.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 18:52.01 | koen | with some workaround you can compile apps, but support should improve in a week or 3 |
| 18:52.41 | stefan_schmidt | So I start playing with it once the support is better. |
| 18:53.01 | kiney | counter |
| 18:53.01 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 08:33:29 (3.357±3.4 days) (1449;227) |
| 18:57.08 | ColdFyre | hey guys |
| 18:57.24 | ColdFyre | openmoko seems to have found it's way onto moto a780's |
| 18:57.33 | ColdFyre | (it's on mine now) |
| 19:01.04 | nox-Hand | ColdFyre: Wait, you say you got the Moto A780 to run OpenMoko? |
| 19:01.25 | ColdFyre | yes |
| 19:01.39 | zell1983 | can you do a photo or a picture? |
| 19:01.55 | ColdFyre | when i get home |
| 19:02.26 | ColdFyre | later tonight^ |
| 19:02.28 | nox-Hand | ColdFyre: How well does it run? :) |
| 19:02.44 | ColdFyre | not bad at all |
| 19:02.57 | stefan_schmidt | ColdFyre: Can't be much more then booting into userspace as the QVGA theme is broken and dialing will not work as EZX uses TS07.10 |
| 19:03.16 | ColdFyre | it is not alot of work |
| 19:03.29 | ColdFyre | copy rootfs to a tf card |
| 19:03.32 | nox-Hand | ColdFyre: But do you think you cna use it for anything though? |
| 19:03.37 | stefan_schmidt | http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/gallery/v/openmoko/IMG_8338.JPG.html |
| 19:03.39 | ColdFyre | use a kernel image on my desktop |
| 19:03.41 | nox-Hand | ColdFyre: Calls, sms all that, doesn't work, does it? |
| 19:03.50 | ColdFyre | sms does |
| 19:03.54 | ColdFyre | sound no |
| 19:04.00 | *** join/#openmoko _ASK_ (n=chatzill@189.146.139.22) |
| 19:04.04 | nox-Hand | stefan_schmidt: What phone is that? |
| 19:04.16 | stefan_schmidt | http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/gallery/v/openmoko/IMG_8341.JPG.html |
| 19:04.27 | stefan_schmidt | nox-Hand: E680 another EZX phone |
| 19:04.33 | ColdFyre | i'm gonna mess with it alot more in the next few days |
| 19:04.39 | nox-Hand | stefan_schmidt: Right |
| 19:04.42 | nox-Hand | ColdFyre: Enjoy |
| 19:04.42 | ColdFyre | e680 is pretty must the a780 |
| 19:04.47 | ColdFyre | much |
| 19:04.58 | stefan_schmidt | ColdFyre: I know |
| 19:05.09 | ColdFyre | when the neo comes out i'm getting that though :) |
| 19:05.50 | ColdFyre | people think they are so hot with those ugly blackberries |
| 19:05.57 | stefan_schmidt | ColdFyre: If you are interested in EZX 2.6 kernel hacking join #openezx |
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| 19:11.13 | nox-Hand | So.. does anyone know how to get ahold of the OpenMoko Team? |
| 19:13.29 | nox-Hand | stefan_schmidt: I thought they might, yet I am wondering how to pinpoint one ;) |
| 19:14.03 | stefan_schmidt | nox-Hand: The question is why you want to pinpoint one. What's your question? |
| 19:18.37 | Hopscotch | *rofl |
| 19:18.38 | Hopscotch | * |
| 19:19.10 | nox-Hand | stefan_schmidt: Basically, I am wondering whether they have any need of a person 100% fluent in Danish and English (and here I mean 100% with high grades in both) to do translation. Not just translation of the actual OpenMoko platform, but also whatever press releases might be channeled to Denmark or even suppliers (I would mainly think publicity though) and also help making the manual in Danish if that was needed - good documentation is always |
| 19:19.56 | balrog-kun | you got cut-off at "always" |
| 19:20.26 | Basheri | i hate it when the text cuts off |
| 19:20.35 | *** join/#openmoko phil_ (n=phil@p5B018FE9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:20.35 | nox-Hand | balrog-kun: Odd, what program you in? After always goes ".. is always excellent and popular." |
| 19:21.24 | balrog-kun | nox-Hand: i use irssi but i thought it's the network |
| 19:21.40 | Basheri | nah, it cuts after 'always' here too |
| 19:21.47 | nox-Hand | balrog-kun: Then it has to be this channels settings, other channels do not regularly do that. |
| 19:21.53 | Basheri | yes, the network |
| 19:22.04 | Basheri | or the channel :D |
| 19:22.07 | nox-Hand | balrog-kun: Freenode does not do cutoffs. |
| 19:22.11 | nox-Hand | That's a setting :) |
| 19:22.28 | nox-Hand | Anyway - never mind =D |
| 19:22.36 | balrog-kun | at least one other channel i know, does, i dnnno in general |
| 19:22.42 | stefan_schmidt | nox-Hand: Hmm, for now we don't have much need for translations. But that will change at some point of time. |
| 19:23.21 | stefan_schmidt | nox-Hand: The best would be to mail coreteam@openmoko.org which puts you in a trequest tracker |
| 19:23.32 | stefan_schmidt | s/trequest/request/ |
| 19:23.53 | nox-Hand | Thanks apt ;) |
| 19:24.11 | nox-Hand | stefan_schmidt: Excellent, I will do that. I am up for doing whatever I can to help this project along :) |
| 19:25.02 | nox-Hand | CoreDump|home: Welcome home :) |
| 19:25.10 | stefan_schmidt | nox-Hand: But I fear you have to be patient as translation has a low priority right now. Of course this does not mean that you can't organize with others for that |
| 19:25.25 | CoreDump|home | nox-Hand: heh, thx |
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| 19:25.47 | stefan_schmidt | nox-Hand: IIRC some people already organized something in the wiki |
| 19:26.52 | balrog-kun | theoretically perfect grades in two languages don't always make a perfect translator (but definitely do help) |
| 19:27.18 | nox-Hand | stefan_schmidt: Indeed, yet they are all Danish people, so they _might_ not have as high linguistic skills as someone who is 100% halfbreed (Father English, Mother Danish, I speak/read/write fluently in both languages) |
| 19:27.27 | nox-Hand | And this is _not_ meant as a toe-treader |
| 19:27.42 | balrog-kun | there's part of the knowledge about the process of translation itself, abstract from languages |
| 19:27.44 | nox-Hand | More as in, if they need someone they can feel will definately get it right, I am here to help. |
| 19:29.16 | nox-Hand | stefan_schmidt: Anyway, I am also offering services for just about any task that is need of - except the fact that I can not code, so that area I shall steer clear of for now. Graphics and anything with language etc, I am offering help. |
| 19:29.31 | nox-Hand | stefan_schmidt: You do that, seems a sensible use of time :) Thankyou for your time! |
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| 20:13.31 | Vitaly | counter |
| 20:13.31 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 07:53:18 (3.329±3.3 days) (1450;227) |
| 20:23.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Supported_microSD_cards]] [[Talk:Finger_Toolbar]] [[Talk:Wishlist:Expansion_Back]] [[Talk:ETel]] [[Talk:Main_Page]] [[Talk:Templates]] [[Guitar_Tuning]] [[User_talk:Vw7Oud]] [[Media_Player]] [[GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status]] |
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| 21:00.31 | pjz | FIC is pissing me off |
| 21:00.54 | guaqua | and why is that? |
| 21:01.09 | pjz | January. No, March. April. No, May. End of May. No, sometime, but we won't tell you. blah. |
| 21:01.37 | guaqua | ...don't like it either... |
| 21:01.58 | pjz | they've lost all credibility with me |
| 21:02.05 | Rince | pjz: then why are you still here? |
| 21:02.17 | pjz | b/c I haven't logged out of here in weeks |
| 21:02.26 | pjz | and b/c I don't WANT them to suck so badly |
| 21:02.56 | pjz | maybe better said: I want them to NOT suck so badly |
| 21:03.19 | pjz | I keep hoping I'm going to glance at this window and see some solid news or something |
| 21:06.35 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-24-3-53-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 21:06.36 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 21:06.48 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 21:07.23 | Elrond | pjz - Any other company just would have a) shipped crap hardware b) not told the public about possible new hardware. |
| 21:09.18 | Elrond | On my FIC wishlist is "_short_ status update once every week, say mondays". Annd if it's only "500 phones were created, we don't know where they are, and we don't know, if they're any good." or "Nothing new since last week, we still try to find those phones" ;o)) |
| 21:09.21 | Rince | pjz: I don't know about you, but I have seen P0 hardware twice now. It eixsts and you can have fun with it. For a small definition of "fun" :). But still, there is progress. |
| 21:09.31 | sparq | pjz: I remind you that if this were any other company, you wouldn't even have heard *anything*. FIC only has about 5000, most of whom are doing other htings. |
| 21:09.35 | sparq | things, I mean. |
| 21:10.13 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=rac0r@p54AA5B77.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:10.33 | Rince | I second Elrond - short updates would be lovely. But I see progress and (as a non-developer) I just wait and get surprised by interesting news. |
| 21:10.55 | sparq | pjz: Also, FIC is operating across several countries with various different laws regarding disclosure. If they make promises about products that they have to withdraw, they could be vulnerable to litigation in more than one country. |
| 21:11.18 | pjz | they already made promises they had to withdraw |
| 21:11.30 | pjz | like the original ship date in january |
| 21:11.32 | sparq | pjz: Timetables are one matter. Specs are another. |
| 21:11.46 | pjz | I could care less about P1.5+ specs |
| 21:11.52 | pjz | I just want them to ship P1 hardware |
| 21:12.13 | Elrond | pjz - I have a P0 just next to me (despite I'm currently doing $paid_other_work). And I can tell you two things: 1) You would not want to have bought this hardware. 2) If you have some good reasons, you can get lended a P0 from a nice kind soul. :) |
| 21:12.52 | sparq | pjz: Hardware dev sucks. That's just how it usually goes. |
| 21:12.56 | pjz | don't misunderstand me - I understand that hardware is, well, hard. It takes time to get right. |
| 21:13.17 | pjz | I've been involved in hardware dev projects, more than once. |
| 21:13.20 | pjz | BUT |
| 21:13.47 | sparq | Yep -- and unlike software, they often can't relly say what's going on. I'm sure it will be a very interesting story. |
| 21:13.56 | pjz | 5 mins/wk to tell the community that you've pledged to be involved with what's up is not unreasonable. |
| 21:14.22 | pjz | what could they not talk about? |
| 21:14.29 | pjz | presumably they haven't signed NDAs |
| 21:14.31 | guaqua | what i gathered from the core team was that it's pretty hard to do business with the chinese |
| 21:14.36 | guaqua | and that has been a major issue |
| 21:14.46 | Rince | right from the beginning |
| 21:14.46 | pjz | well, so they should do business elsewhere |
| 21:14.47 | guaqua | china mainland now |
| 21:15.18 | guaqua | pjz: name another vendor who is willing to put the time and effort to get things donr in gpl etc |
| 21:16.02 | guaqua | balrog-kun: i recall harald said something in that fashion...or at least something about the guys at the mainland factory promised something and nothing was actually done |
| 21:16.20 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL_ (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 21:16.21 | sparq | You do business where you must. That's just how it is. |
| 21:16.33 | *** part/#openmoko DukeOfURL_ (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 21:16.40 | sparq | This is why I'm in academia. ^_^ |
| 21:16.49 | guaqua | sparq: ^___^ |
| 21:16.53 | balrog-kun | the NDA's that they have iirc are only the ones with Global Locate and Texas Instruments, (and maybe now with some wifi vendor, dunno) |
| 21:17.27 | Elrond | balrog-kun - remove the wifi vendor. I think, the ar6k thing was very gpl-friendly. |
| 21:17.54 | balrog-kun | Elrond: i see |
| 21:17.54 | pjz | sparq: yeah, in academia just just kowtow where you must :P |
| 21:18.35 | Elrond | sparq - Well, if tey didn't want to say "We have problems with chinese", they could have said "There are some logistics issues with our mainland china factory, we're sorting them out currently" as a short weekly notice. Nothing wrong there. |
| 21:18.36 | SpeedEvil | balrog-kun: And now the video accelerometer chip |
| 21:18.53 | sparq | pjz: Until you get tenure. Then you get to wear your underwear on your head and rub yourself down with Cheeze-wiz, as long as you don't sleep with the undergraduates. |
| 21:19.15 | pjz | guaqua: re: other vendors: just because everyone else is worse doesn't make them perfect |
| 21:19.31 | guaqua | pjz: and that relates to the issue how? |
| 21:19.42 | guaqua | pjz: did i somewhere imply they are perfect? |
| 21:20.05 | Elrond | Ahh, SpeedEvil is right. this smedia thing looks somewhat nda'd. But afterwards we'll have a gpl driver, which kick's part of the nda. ;) |
| 21:20.45 | *** join/#openmoko chreekat (n=b@32.235.125.209.transedge.com) |
| 21:20.46 | guaqua | Elrond: what i'm guessing is that there isn't much they can do about the issues and that the timetable was out of their hands |
| 21:20.50 | pjz | guaqua: no, but your appeal 'name another vendor who...' seemed to imply that because they're better than other vendors they're above criticism |
| 21:21.32 | Elrond | guaqua - Yeah. I have absolutely no problem with that. Heck, my $paidwork is off by months. |
| 21:21.42 | guaqua | pjz: what i meant by that was that there haven't been any other vendors doing phones with gpl so strongly present |
| 21:22.09 | Elrond | guaqua - Let me make this clear: The weekly-update is a wishlist thingy. It would be nice, if it existed, but it's fine without. |
| 21:22.13 | SpeedEvil | A GPL'd driver - which may not fully exploit the hardware |
| 21:22.19 | guaqua | pjz: and i agree that there are many things they should have done differently |
| 21:22.38 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - yeah, possibly. ;-) |
| 21:22.40 | guaqua | Elrond: i'm wishing it too :) |
| 21:22.54 | sparq | Anyway, all we can do is hope FIC works things out, and that their next prodcut comes together more smoothly. If FIC doesn't get it right, someone else will, eventually. |
| 21:23.15 | pjz | I'm just annoyed that they got my hopes up SIX MONTHS AGO |
| 21:24.08 | pjz | the other thing is that a ton of people are jumping on the linux phone bandwagon |
| 21:24.14 | pjz | so FIC's lead may evaporate |
| 21:24.17 | pjz | which is sad |
| 21:24.31 | Elrond | pjz - six months ago was P0 plan. Unless you were on the P0 list, you had no reason for hope at _that_ time. |
| 21:24.51 | pjz | Elrond: 6 months ago was the original P1 plan. |
| 21:24.54 | guaqua | pjz: i only see that as a good thing...it's about the software anyway |
| 21:25.15 | Elrond | Huh, really? |
| 21:25.22 | *** join/#openmoko zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.210.231) |
| 21:25.24 | pjz | guaqua: sure, but there goes my ability to laugh at all my friends by having an open source phone when no one else does :) |
| 21:25.36 | guaqua | initially P1 plan was march? |
| 21:25.47 | guaqua | pjz: true that :) |
| 21:25.54 | guaqua | or was it december? |
| 21:26.22 | guaqua | err february i mean |
| 21:27.16 | pjz | Elrond: yup. http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2986976174.html says 'general availability in January' |
| 21:27.34 | pjz | I take GA to mean P1 |
| 21:27.52 | guaqua | january then |
| 21:27.59 | pjz | yup |
| 21:28.06 | pjz | so: 6 months overdue |
| 21:28.16 | pjz | well, 5 if you're being generous |
| 21:28.30 | sparq | pjz: are you subscribed to the Announce mailing list? |
| 21:28.47 | pjz | sparq: I've been subscribed since, uh, Novermber? december maybe. |
| 21:29.39 | pjz | i was originally going to save some xmas $$$ to get it |
| 21:29.52 | pjz | ...xmas in july I guess... |
| 21:30.11 | pjz | plus it's going to be really sad if the iPhone beats the Neo out the door |
| 21:30.13 | guaqua | i'm thinking P2 might be for next christmas :) |
| 21:31.07 | pjz | only if by 'next' you mean 2009 |
| 21:31.07 | sparq | pjz: I'm just saying, have a heart. The Neo team is very small, and they've got a lot on the line. |
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| 21:32.12 | pjz | sparq: and, according to you, when should I give up? when am I allowed to feel decieved? I've talked up the Neo to a couple friends who now think I'm an idiot. |
| 21:32.38 | pjz | though, you know, I needed more proof to justify my cynicism, so there's that. |
| 21:32.51 | sparq | pjz: Until the hardware hits the stores, it's better to think of the Neo as a bunch of people. If you want to dump on it, you're dumping on people, not a product. |
| 21:32.58 | guaqua | if your friends think you are an idiot, you need better friends :) |
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| 21:35.12 | sparq | FIC never promised to make you look or sound cool. ^_^ |
| 21:35.22 | Rince | **G |
| 21:35.33 | sparq | That wasn't in the spec. ^_^ |
| 21:35.38 | pjz | sure, they just promised to deliver hardware. |
| 21:35.49 | pjz | what i get for taking them at their word. |
| 21:36.12 | pjz | oh well, maybe the openezx guys will come through and finish reverse engineering the moto phones |
| 21:36.31 | pjz | then I can have a fully open stack on them. |
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| 21:40.30 | Elrond | Until it hits the store, you should consider this all "prototype stuff". |
| 21:40.44 | Rince | *nod* |
| 21:42.23 | pjz | I don't mind that... except that they told me it would "hit the store" in January... and it's 5 months later and it still hasn't |
| 21:42.39 | pjz | and there's no good up to date explanation of what's going on |
| 21:42.44 | pjz | or even revised estimates |
| 21:42.46 | pjz | or anything |
| 21:42.52 | Elrond | No, january was "hit the developers via direct marketing". |
| 21:43.06 | pjz | Elrond: january was 'general availability' |
| 21:43.20 | pjz | Elrond: orderable direct from the FIC website, supposedly. |
| 21:43.23 | Elrond | "general availability" for developers, I presume. |
| 21:43.38 | balrog-kun | december was the developer release in that text :) |
| 21:43.49 | pjz | Elrond: dude, did you read the link I just put up here? |
| 21:43.52 | balrog-kun | Xmas :) pity it didn't work out |
| 21:44.22 | balrog-kun | december sounds so unreal, heh |
| 21:44.24 | Elrond | pjz - No, please excuse. |
| 21:44.50 | Elrond | pjz - My browser is occupied with $work. ;-) |
| 21:44.58 | pjz | Elrond: it really said 'general availability' in January. |
| 21:45.10 | pjz | Elrond: with developer-only release in December |
| 21:45.32 | sparq | Heh. The story of the Neo1973: The public wants to get more involved in the hardware development process. FIC lets people get involved. People find out that the development process is difficult, confusing, frustrating, and fraught with delays and not enough information. FIC says, "Welcome to the electronics industry. Now you know why most electronics doesn't really do what you want." |
| 21:45.55 | guaqua | :) |
| 21:46.32 | sparq | I think we just got what we asked for, but that we didn't really know what it would entail. ^_^ |
| 21:46.52 | pjz | I think we got fed a line of good intentions |
| 21:47.51 | sparq | Well, in the mean time, it costs nothing to check out the code from the repository and run it on QEMU. There are still bugs aplenty. |
| 21:47.57 | pjz | guess I can take it as a lesson: place not thy faith in marketing |
| 21:48.05 | pjz | sparq: I've been doing that for months now |
| 21:48.53 | guaqua | if you don't believe in the people involved in this project also trying to do the good thing (tm), you sound like quite a cynic |
| 21:50.25 | Judas_ | I like the idea. But is it dead? Can the open source mobile phone really just be a myth? |
| 21:50.47 | Elrond | Hi hrw! :-) |
| 21:51.05 | guaqua | Judas_: we all decide about that |
| 21:51.14 | guaqua | are we going to let it be a myth? |
| 21:51.28 | Judas_ | Meaning? ... |
| 21:51.52 | hrw | hi |
| 21:52.05 | guaqua | that it's up to the people to actually develop the software and buy the phones |
| 21:52.32 | Judas_ | Count me in on that last thing |
| 21:52.35 | guaqua | if you decide it's a myth, you are probably not one of those people developing and buying :) |
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| 21:53.25 | Judas_ | I might come off as more negative than I am. Was just wondering why the official site doesn't show much info. Will buy this device at once when I am able to (the end-customer version). SSH into your phone? Count me in :D |
| 21:53.57 | guaqua | :) |
| 21:54.03 | pjz | guaqua: it's not up to the people to write the software - it's up to FIC to ship the hardware. |
| 21:54.16 | guaqua | pjz: that's true aswell |
| 21:54.17 | pjz | guaqua: otherwise the people have no motivation to write the software. |
| 21:55.07 | pjz | guaqua: and sure, I believe they're _trying_ to do a good thing. They just don't seem to be _actually_ doing it |
| 21:55.23 | guaqua | true and true. but it's up to the people to write the software anyway. even if FIC shipped the next best thing to sliced bread tomorrow and the people didn't develop the software, open source mobile phone would end up being a myth |
| 21:55.41 | SpeedEvil | It's not a myth if it exists. |
| 21:55.47 | SpeedEvil | Even if it doesn't go mass market |
| 21:55.54 | pjz | guaqua: sure, but there's no point in writing software for vapor-hardware |
| 21:55.54 | SpeedEvil | (which would be bad) |
| 21:56.10 | pjz | guaqua: writing software for qemu just doesn't seem all that interesting |
| 21:56.21 | guaqua | pjz: can't deny your points, they are totally valid :) |
| 21:56.30 | Elrond | Right. |
| 21:56.56 | Elrond | I didn't have a build-env until I got the hardware... and even after having the hardware, it took me weeks to install the build-env. ;-) |
| 21:57.39 | Elrond | (not to mention, that setting up the buildenv isn't really fun (waiting for monotone is just...)) |
| 21:57.55 | pjz | yeah, ick, I wish OE would switch to git |
| 21:58.20 | guaqua | i'd prefer subversion everywhere, but that's just me :) |
| 21:58.25 | pjz | svn is so broken |
| 21:58.32 | hrw | so is git |
| 21:58.34 | pjz | branch/merge is soooo painful |
| 21:58.39 | SpeedEvil | cvs! |
| 21:58.47 | pjz | well, must run |
| 21:58.50 | pjz | later all |
| 21:59.11 | hrw | monotone guys atleast supports 0.26 - 0.35 with one server and databases can be upgraded with mtn upgrade |
| 21:59.25 | Judas_ | This one time I had to configure the IP address on a Ubuntu computer all by myself |
| 21:59.31 | guaqua | monotone is a bitch since it can't be installed from the standard repos on most distros |
| 21:59.57 | guaqua | you can get a binary to get things running though |
| 22:00.00 | cjb | why not? |
| 22:00.01 | hrw | guaqua: then complain to maintainers of monotone in those distros. Debian based ones works |
| 22:00.18 | cjb | yeah, was gonna say, it's always worked for me. |
| 22:00.32 | guaqua | hrw: ubuntu doesn't have a decent version |
| 22:00.34 | SpeedEvil | Wow - number of child deaths on Scotlands roads doubled - to 25 this year |
| 22:00.36 | guaqua | for starters... |
| 22:00.37 | hrw | guaqua: monotone when gets DB of older version will tell you how to upgrade |
| 22:00.38 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 22:00.52 | hrw | guaqua: 0.26+ is working with OE. it is old enough to be in any distro |
| 22:01.09 | Elrond | guaqua - debian's monotone worked. |
| 22:01.16 | hrw | guaqua: monotone when gets DB of newer version will tell you that it will not use it. |
| 22:01.38 | guaqua | i had heaps of trouble with ubuntu defaults when i last tried |
| 22:01.48 | hrw | guaqua: git 1.4 breaks when get archive made with git 1.5 |
| 22:01.55 | guaqua | this is not to say it can't be done, but it |
| 22:01.56 | hrw | and will not tell you WHY it breaks |
| 22:01.58 | guaqua | 's not easy |
| 22:02.13 | Elrond | HEH! I didn't intend to start a VCS-flamewar. |
| 22:02.15 | hrw | git messages which it gives to user suxx |
| 22:02.26 | guaqua | hrw: i know nothing about git so :) |
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| 22:02.51 | guaqua | my point about monotone just was that the versions in the distros are old and the vcs seems to be developing quite fast |
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| 22:03.27 | hrw | guaqua: and OE supports 0.26 which is over year old |
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| 22:03.38 | dcordes | when will the next phase start approx.? |
| 22:03.54 | hrw | guaqua: monotone guys gives you static binary of newest version |
| 22:04.11 | hrw | scripts/package/Makefile: needs update |
| 22:04.11 | hrw | fatal: Entry 'include/linux/sched.h' not uptodate. Cannot merge. |
| 22:04.11 | hrw | 00:03 hrw@home:linux-git$ |
| 22:04.16 | hrw | welcome in git world |
| 22:04.33 | guaqua | hrw: i know. i just also know i had to jump through a couple of hoops last time i did something with it |
| 22:04.45 | hrw | 'fatal: Entry 'include/linux/sched.h' not uptodate. Cannot merge.' - but what to do it left to ones which can read and understand git source? |
| 22:05.28 | Elrond | hrw - git cannot merge locally edited files. You have to commit a local version first. |
| 22:05.35 | Elrond | ... yes, this is a shortcoming of git. |
| 22:05.43 | hrw | Elrond: monotone starts merger in such situations |
| 22:05.58 | hrw | git DISALLOW you to make local changes and update |
| 22:06.02 | Elrond | git can only merge versions in the repos. |
| 22:06.18 | Elrond | You have to put local changes in a local branch. |
| 22:06.28 | Elrond | ... and then merge your lcoal branch with the remote branch. |
| 22:06.37 | hrw | Elrond: please... git and branching... I use quilt for patches not git stuff |
| 22:06.43 | Elrond | Yes, I'd wisth for a cvs/svn style of local edit and update. |
| 22:07.30 | Elrond | I've moved to git for for complex patch sets. ;o) |
| 22:08.25 | hrw | Elrond: I use kernels which have even 50 patches applied |
| 22:09.11 | hrw | today I had to extract patch from vendor kernel sources dump to merge with other kernel sources dump from same vendor to get functionality from both dumps working. |
| 22:10.01 | hrw | took me some time but from 6M patch I came to 330K one |
| 22:10.44 | Elrond | Well, the current yet-another-vcs thingies have the good thing, that everybody can pick a nice one. |
| 22:10.56 | hrw | o yes |
| 22:11.19 | Elrond | I personally like git, but then that's, because I use 40% of its features. |
| 22:11.24 | hrw | cvs, svn, git, mtn, bzr, arch, clearcase, perforce, rcs, mercurial etc |
| 22:12.13 | hrw | I used monotone for about two years, suggested some functionality, user handling improvements |
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| 22:19.08 | Elrond | hrw - Hmm, from my bad memories on when I looked a little at monotone, I think, monotone and git aren't far away. |
| 22:19.16 | Elrond | Anyway, I need to write some latex now. ;-) |
| 22:19.20 | Elrond | Night people. :-) |
| 22:21.03 | hrw | cu Elrond |
| 22:21.16 | hrw | cu all |
| 22:23.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Debug_Board_v1]] [[Coding_Guidelines]] [[Calendar]] [[History]] [[Neo1973_Power_Management]] [[Media_Player]] [[Toolbar]] [[Talk:Main_Page]] [[IPhone]] |
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| 22:25.37 | pergesu | The wiki says that the phase one phone "will be available in may", and the welcome message says any week now. So is it possible to buy a neo1973 yet? |
| 22:25.37 | aloril | pergesu: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 22:26.52 | hads | The topic is current |
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| 22:28.14 | Elrond | pergesu - You're welcome to fix the wiki. :) |
| 22:28.28 | Elrond | ... off now, for real... *grr* This channel is addictive. |
| 22:28.32 | pergesu | Elrond: cool, just wasn't sure |
| 22:28.50 | Elrond | counter |
| 22:28.50 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 06:45:35 (3.282±3.3 days) (1451;227) |
| 22:29.14 | Elrond | (note the info on this page is all guesses!) |
| 22:29.21 | Elrond | Anyway... now I'm off. |
| 22:30.48 | hads | Perhaps there should be a pointer to the announce list in the topic too. |
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| 22:52.24 | ewon | http://cgi.ebay.com/LINUX-DV007-4-0MP-PDA-TRIBAND-N95-PHONE-FREE-1GB-CARD_W0QQitemZ180128598562QQihZ008QQcategoryZ64355QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
| 22:52.36 | ewon | interesting looking linux-powered phone... |
| 22:53.05 | SpeedEvil | There is linux powered, and linux as a usable operating system. |
| 22:53.23 | SpeedEvil | There are many linux devices where the user gains no benefit of it being linux powered. |
| 22:53.29 | SpeedEvil | As it's completely locked down. |
| 22:54.35 | hads | Yeah, my desk phone runs Linux, but that doesn't mean I can do anything with it. |
| 22:55.03 | high-rez | I'd argue a device that is locked down but runs linux provides a far larger advantage that vaporware that runs linux and is completely open. |
| 22:55.06 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03werner * r2235 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/boot-menu.patch: Patch for common/bootmenu.c was garbled, sorry. |
| 22:55.20 | high-rez | s/that vaporware/than vaporware |
| 22:55.57 | SpeedEvil | A device that is totally locked down but runs linux has no advantage other than perhaps stability, over windows, or sybian |
| 22:56.03 | SpeedEvil | err - symbian |
| 22:56.58 | SpeedEvil | Even if the neo never actually materialises, it's quite likely that the source may survive and prosper. |
| 22:57.21 | high-rez | Speed: Agreed. |
| 22:57.33 | high-rez | At least the GSM 07.10 stuff will be usable by others. |
| 22:57.43 | SpeedEvil | The neo in many ways is not my ideal phone. |
| 22:57.56 | SpeedEvil | I mean more than the patches |
| 22:58.02 | SpeedEvil | I mean the core apps developed |
| 22:58.39 | SpeedEvil | My ideal phone would be somewhat smaller, and perhaps a clamshell. |
| 22:59.06 | high-rez | I think the SE S710 is a great form factor, but most hate it. |
| 22:59.16 | SpeedEvil | With a thumb-pointer on the clamshell perhaps. |
| 22:59.16 | high-rez | (it would be awesome if it had qwerty in that FF) |
| 22:59.42 | SpeedEvil | I think I can live without qwerty. |
| 22:59.51 | ewon | I'd prefer the form-factor of an HTC s710 |
| 22:59.57 | ewon | e.g. a slide-uut keyboard |
| 23:00.14 | ewon | but I'm willing to compromise if it means an open phone :) |
| 23:00.18 | high-rez | ewon: and put it on it's side? |
| 23:00.25 | ewon | high-rez: yeah |
| 23:00.47 | high-rez | ewon: Yeah that'd be nice. and drop the buttons on the front of the s710 - not needed, takes up realestate. |
| 23:01.24 | ewon | high-rez: agreed |
| 23:01.45 | ewon | so the neo1973 form-factor, just with a slide-out keyboard |
| 23:02.09 | high-rez | and the physical presence aspect that's currently lacking. |
| 23:02.55 | SpeedEvil | I think that the neo, with an analog thumbstick where the lanyard hole is would be a good compromise. |
| 23:03.02 | SpeedEvil | with maybe a couple of buttons next to it. |
| 23:03.07 | pergesu | how will people write apps for the neo? I heard that you can only write webapps for the iphone...will most openmoko apps be native, or will it have a good enough broswer that you can write web apps the same as for iphone? |
| 23:03.25 | ewon | this looks nice, but looks a lot like vaporware: http://road-gmbh.de/englisch/index.html |
| 23:03.26 | high-rez | native, use gcc |
| 23:03.28 | SpeedEvil | It's basically a little X box. |
| 23:03.37 | SpeedEvil | With a somewhat wierd window manager. |
| 23:03.38 | high-rez | and cross compile. |
| 23:03.39 | ewon | pergesu: with cross-gcc, like god intended |
| 23:03.46 | SpeedEvil | cross-gcc? |
| 23:03.54 | SpeedEvil | God intended for you to use GCC! |
| 23:03.59 | ewon | gcc cross compiler |
| 23:04.12 | ewon | e.g. produced with crosstool, or some other such abomination |
| 23:04.25 | high-rez | ewon: Looks like that nokia communicator. |
| 23:04.32 | ewon | SpeedEvil: are you on crack? |
| 23:04.41 | ewon | you're going to _compile_ on the phone? |
| 23:04.48 | SpeedEvil | Why not? |
| 23:04.58 | SpeedEvil | Ok - sure for big apps, it's a bad idea. |
| 23:05.29 | ewon | disk space, i/o bandwidth, memory, processor speed, pure shitness of inputting code on a touchscreen... |
| 23:05.40 | SpeedEvil | bluetooth keyb. |
| 23:05.40 | high-rez | ssh into it |
| 23:05.47 | high-rez | i just telnet into my greenphone |
| 23:06.03 | ewon | if you're going to ssh into it you might as well just crossgcc and fucking scp the binary accross :) |
| 23:07.23 | SpeedEvil | OTOH - actually executing things should be faster on the phone than the hardware I've got here. |
| 23:07.27 | SpeedEvil | (for emulation) |
| 23:08.41 | high-rez | execution in the vacuum. |
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| 23:18.11 | high-rez | Hmmmm. A coworker just told me about a Ti chipset that does GSM(quad),UMTS, and WiFi all in one chip. |
| 23:18.46 | SpeedEvil | And the problem is docs. |
| 23:18.53 | SpeedEvil | And availability. |
| 23:19.57 | SpeedEvil | Not to mention that some newer chipsets require CPU to do the actual GSM stack |
| 23:20.06 | high-rez | It's supposed to use an at command-set. |
| 23:20.10 | SpeedEvil | Which isn't possible on an open phone |
| 23:20.22 | SpeedEvil | Point at a datasheet. |
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| 23:21.10 | high-rez | Speed: Really? That would seem impossible, really, unless you mean just a firmware... The TDMA timing would seem near impossible to get right in software. |
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| 23:30.28 | Elrond | high-rez - I work on the neo straight via ssh and edit (python) code there and run it. :-) |
| 23:30.54 | Elrond | The 200MHz don't feel worse than the 350MHz of my desktop. ;-) |
| 23:31.46 | Elrond | I don't have a gcc on it, as I didn't want to waste the flash space for it. |
| 23:32.31 | Elrond | .oO(I could deinstall the rssreader. I never use it. ;o) ) |
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