IRC log for #openmoko-cdevel on 20130124

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04:44.41morphisPaulFertser: yes
04:45.10PaulFertsermorphis: eh, why would it be any better than FSO?
04:45.15PaulFertsermorphis: good morning :)
04:45.21morphisyeah, good morning :)
04:46.21morphisI don't say it's better than FSO but it opens a better path for me to get a device working with a system I like
04:56.24PaulFertsermorphis: i'd appreciate it if you elaborated a bit
04:56.55morphisI did
04:57.22PaulFertserI know too litle about webos internals to understand that idea.
04:58.53morphisit's a really nice system. Yeah it's build on web technologies but for my purpose it's the right operating system since I got my first Palm Pre years ago
04:59.14morphisand in the past months we made really good progress
04:59.32morphisand we're backed up to some level :)
05:01.12morphisPaulFertser: we have to made compromises at some places (like the graphics drivers) but I am ok with that
05:09.02PaulFertsermorphis: what i care is about 1. good enough kernel (current gta02's is "almost there") 2. Solid telephony and related smartphone infra (i'm using fsogsmd, fsodevice, fsousaged, oeventsd, opimd) and i'd need a replacement for all the components.
05:14.18PaulFertserI can't see how you might be getting any of that with webos but if you do, why can't i use that setup on my gta02.
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07:00.39radekpPaulFertser: hi, how about GTA04? ;-)
07:01.20PaulFertserradekp: how does i really make any difference apart from that it has more RAM and a faster CPU?
07:01.22radekpPaulFertser: it has best supported kernel out there...
07:02.05pabs3is the GTA04 stuff in mainline?
07:02.43radekpyup
07:02.52PaulFertserradekp: i'm not so sure. What about the proper zero-clock support like it was in maemo kernel for n900?
07:02.56radekponly little pieces are missing
07:02.59PaulFertserradekp: and how's the power consumption in general?
07:03.08radekpPaulFertser: 14mA in suspend
07:03.30PaulFertserradekp: but gta02 is twice less!
07:03.36radekpPaulFertser: ~200mA on full brightness
07:03.49PaulFertserAlso, i do not think i want suspend on an OMAP platform at all :/
07:03.51radekpPaulFertser: well GTA02 is ~12mA
07:04.25PaulFertserradekp: with deep sleep disabled?
07:04.30radekpPaulFertser: yup
07:05.01PaulFertserradekp: i do no see any reason whatsoever to run with deep sleep disabled.
07:06.13radekpPaulFertser: i have deep sleep enabled, i tried to leave GTA02 with full charged brand new battery - and it laster ~5days
07:07.36radekpPaulFertser: that is around ~10mA
07:07.51PaulFertserradekp: yep, it was claimed the expected time is 140 hours
07:07.57radekpPaulFertser: not that much difference from 15mA
07:08.37radekpPaulFertser: and GTA04 has potential to be even better - one month ago it was at 25mA not it's 15mA
07:08.50radekperm i mean now it's at 15mA
07:09.21radekpA5 variant will have some more HW fixes so it should be even lower
07:12.08PaulFertserradekp: i do not like suspend at all :(
07:12.58radekpPaulFertser: hmm i have to say that N900 without suspend is quite cool, but there is no reason why GTA04 should not do it too
07:13.07PaulFertserExactly
07:13.27PaulFertserradekp: of course gta04 has cooler hardware than gta02.
07:14.05PaulFertserBut what i was sad about is that even decent almost fully investigated bugreports for FSO are getting ignored unless i actually provide a patch myself.
07:14.12PaulFertserI'm a bit tired of fixing fso :(
07:14.15radekpPaulFertser: maybe we can just apply some zeroclock patches, but i dont think i have skill for it...
07:14.44PaulFertserThough i admit i do not do much, not comparable to what some of you folks do of course.
07:15.06PaulFertserI just want to use the phone, and stop debugging ...
07:15.21radekpPaulFertser: hmm if FSO was written in C i'd be interested
07:16.03PaulFertserradekp: C is a really unsuitable language for this kind of task, i'm afraid.
07:16.41radekpPaulFertser: well oFono is written in C
07:16.42PaulFertserC++ might have been a good choice but afair it lacked real DBus and glib integration.
07:17.00PaulFertserradekp: i know but where that ofono is? Is it used on any device actually?
07:17.21radekpPaulFertser: i guess it is - i am subscibed to oFono mailing list and it's very active
07:17.41PaulFertserradekp: on which phone e.g.?
07:18.00radekpPaulFertser: i guess it's much more deployed on some USB sticks
07:18.45PaulFertserradekp: well, yes, probably, but i think that the fact nobody uses it on a real cellphone is telling a lot.
07:19.45radekpPaulFertser: i had it running on GTA04 as QtMoko backend - and had zero problems with it
07:20.00PaulFertserradekp: why do not you keep it then?
07:20.16radekpPaulFertser: because imo the Qtopia's phone modem implementation is best
07:21.27radekpPaulFertser: it took me like 2 weeks to adapt it to GTA04 and it works really well - i dont like changing things that work
07:21.47PaulFertserradekp: sounds reasonable
07:22.15radekpPaulFertser: it's written in Qt/C++ and easy to debug...
07:22.58PaulFertserradekp: but qtmoko doesn't really provide proper abstraction for end-user telephony programs, does it? Can i just use it as a daemon and write something like fso.el?
07:23.47radekpPaulFertser: yup that's benefit of oFono/FSO
07:24.26radekpPaulFertser: IMO it could be quite easily to export the qtopia's C++ modem interface to dbus
07:27.21PaulFertserradekp: modem is one thing. I'm using fsogsmd, fsousaged, fsodeviced, oevents, opimd. I'd need an integrated system for all those components.
07:27.59radekpPaulFertser: sure
07:28.15PaulFertserThe FSO architecture looks almost fine, the main thing that's lacking is a sane high-level calls interface (current one is really GSM-specific).
07:28.47PaulFertserProbably a telepathy adapter that's using fsogsmd would be a nice fit.
07:30.08PaulFertserAnd also the way bluetooth earpieces are handled currently (if it works at all, it used to be working but then broken) seems wrong (layer violation)
07:32.31radekpi quite like FSO architecture too and it was very easy to teach QtMoko to run on top of it
07:33.22radekpbut the problem for me is that the API is large and wonder if there is at least one active developer that daily uses phone backed by FSO
07:47.18PaulFertserI use my phone daily but i'm not an active developer. Probably i'm the most die-hard user of FSO out there, using it straight for about 3 years almost every day!
07:47.43PaulFertserI also occassionally do useful bugreports and sometimes even patches. But meh :(
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14:23.36ayakaGNUtoo-hplaptop,  the teacher refuse to change devboard, is there some info about speed of hardware encoding in OMAP
14:25.13ayakaif it is slow enought, maybe he will change his mind, or I have to write a plugin for gst, there is only hardware decode part in gst
14:29.35ayakaI think the 6410 devboard is simple board, I will let teacher lend it to me, I can use that board to pratise writing dts and many thing about arm
14:44.30ayakaGNUtoo-hplaptop, thank you every much
14:53.41GNUtoo-hplaptopayaka, hi
14:54.24GNUtoo-hplaptopayaka, I know that hardware encoding on omap3@600Mhz is slower than software
14:54.35GNUtoo-hplaptopbut here you have slower CPU than omap....
14:55.16GNUtoo-hplaptopayaka, look at this blog:
14:55.17GNUtoo-hplaptophttps://felipec.wordpress.com/
14:55.26GNUtoo-hplaptopthere are performance stuff on omap3 + gstreamer
14:55.32GNUtoo-hplaptoplike graphs and such
15:12.59ayakaGNUtoo-hplaptop,  thank you so much , I didn't recived your message because network problem, but once I notice, I pick up from chat log
15:16.42ayakaI have known how usb and DM9000ae work in that 6410 devboard. but just copy and rewrite from vender's 3.0.1 kernel to 3.7
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15:18.51GNUtoo-hplaptopayaka, my message was to look at https://felipec.wordpress.com/ for the performance of omap3+gstreamer
15:21.10ayakaoh, that is your blog, I have used ssh to visit that blog and finding it
15:22.38GNUtoo-hplaptopno
15:22.42GNUtoo-hplaptopit's not my blog
15:22.54ayakaoh,it is dsp,  does the MFC in s3c6410 is also a dsp in SoC
15:23.06GNUtoo-hplaptopit's about omap DSP and gstreamer
15:23.11GNUtoo-hplaptopfelipec worked with that
15:23.18GNUtoo-hplaptophe improved performance of gstreamer etc....
15:23.22GNUtoo-hplaptopfor the n900
15:23.49GNUtoo-hplaptophe has graphs and figures on the performance of gstreamer on omap3
15:24.17ayakayes, I have got your mesg from channel's log before. maybe it will make teacher change his mind
15:25.26ayakaas there is a bug in gst-plug-good in debian armel(reported), I have just tested vp8 in software encode, but it takes full of cpu and looks like a slide show
15:28.36ayakamy god, it is ms level, I think I have to write a encode plugin for gst
15:34.21GNUtoo-hplaptopvp8?
15:34.34GNUtoo-hplaptopwhy do you use vp8?
15:34.48GNUtoo-hplaptopit's a codec which consume a lot of resources
15:34.51GNUtoo-hplaptoptry mjpeg
15:35.19GNUtoo-hplaptopbtw I'm building an image for an omap3 which has a camera
15:35.32GNUtoo-hplaptopif you want me to do tests I can do some
15:35.59GNUtoo-hplaptopbut you'll have to give me most of the commands to type such as gst-launch v4l2src ! fooenc ! etc...
15:38.19ayakayes, but there is no rtp plugin in gst for mjpeg
15:40.15ayakaand mjpeg need a high bandwidth, there is the cmd I used https://paste.debian.net/228210/  , please change caps
15:41.56ayakasorry, I think there is, as it is jpeg
15:43.56GNUtoo-hplaptopok
15:44.05GNUtoo-hplaptopyes it will need a very high bandwith
15:44.08GNUtoo-hplaptopbut a lower CPU
15:44.44GNUtoo-hplaptopbecause even on an omap3 I doubt that it can do vp8
15:50.45ayakaI have to go, lab will close, thank you and good bye, mjpeg can work(not tested in arm, in x86)
15:50.50ayakaGNUtoo-hplaptop, thank you too much
15:54.18GNUtoo-hplaptopok
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22:26.49ccxCZso I got used N900 from my uncle. before I brick it, is there convenient way to back up all of the data there? (think nandroid or similar low-level tool)
22:28.51ccxCZis reading the shr wiki on n900
22:42.12GNUtoo-x60ccxCZ, hi
22:42.39GNUtoo-x60what do you want to use the n900 for exactly?
22:42.42GNUtoo-x60telephony?
22:42.46GNUtoo-x60or portable computer?
22:49.54ccxCZthe latter
22:50.15GNUtoo-x60ok good
22:50.29ccxCZI still prefer my dumbphone for former :-)
22:50.43GNUtoo-x60because no one fixed the forwarder => sound quality during calls is unusable
22:50.59ccxCZwhat about SIP?
22:51.08ccxCZor voip in general
22:51.44GNUtoo-x60I've no idea, I should look if there is a VOIP program packaged
22:51.47GNUtoo-x60maybe trough pidgin
22:53.52GNUtoo-x60I'll go to sleep
22:54.02GNUtoo-x60some pointers:
22:54.13GNUtoo-x60nokia has or had some factory images
22:54.23GNUtoo-x60download theses just in case
22:54.52GNUtoo-x602) flasher supports cold flashing => no bricking risk unless you're not skilled enough to flash an image
22:55.20GNUtoo-x60I'm yawning, I'll go
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