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| 05:58.18 | pabs3 | rah: I mailed Sean about that, they had some hardware trouble and are doing replacement for that. he said it would be a month or so to bring back git/svn.om.o |
| 06:00.00 | pabs3 | personally I hope lists.om.o, wiki.om.o are backed up by non-OM folks |
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| 10:52.11 | rah | pabs3: I thought I emailed Sean about that :-) |
| 10:52.24 | rah | pabs3: does laforge@openmoko.org not work? |
| 10:52.56 | pabs3 | rah: I don't think Harald works there any more, so presumably not? |
| 10:53.23 | rah | pabs3: is laforge not Sean? |
| 10:53.32 | pabs3 | no :) |
| 10:53.35 | rah | odd |
| 10:53.46 | pabs3 | Sean Moss-Pultz <sean@openmoko.com> |
| 10:54.03 | rah | Sean is named as the technical contact in the WHOIS database, with an email address of laforge@openmoko.org |
| 10:54.42 | pabs3 | yeah, laforge is Harald Welte, not Sean |
| 10:54.48 | rah | right |
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| 11:33.18 | DocScrutinizer | and admin is Roh |
| 11:33.30 | DocScrutinizer | and/or gismo |
| 11:34.07 | DocScrutinizer | what'S status of om infra? I haven't checked and nobody pinged me |
| 11:35.09 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, at least wiki seems fine |
| 11:35.29 | DocScrutinizer | mail as well, though nobody except me is probably using it anymore ;-P |
| 11:37.01 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, mailto:xxx@openmoko.org shall work, it's @openmoko.com that been the corporate mail and been down since ages |
| 11:38.54 | DocScrutinizer | best way to tackle problems with OM infra is to a) ping me, b) ping roh, c) leave a note at admin-trac |
| 11:39.06 | DocScrutinizer | c) seems to be no option ;-) |
| 11:40.36 | DocScrutinizer | I seem to remember infra "moved" from sean/OM_inc to Harald/LaF0rge some 9 months ago |
| 11:40.51 | DocScrutinizer | mickeyl should know details |
| 11:41.50 | DocScrutinizer | anyway if you want me to take care, please ping me with exact description of WHAT is down or defect, and since WHEN |
| 11:46.26 | DocScrutinizer | pabs3: what's "non-OM folks"? |
| 11:47.45 | pabs3 | DocScrutinizer: git.openmoko.org, svn.openmoko.org and docs.openmoko.org are down |
| 11:48.02 | pabs3 | DocScrutinizer: people outside of OM Inc |
| 11:48.15 | DocScrutinizer | so everybody except Sean ;-D |
| 11:48.49 | DocScrutinizer | yes, wiki is backed up by our admins roh and gismo |
| 11:48.57 | pabs3 | DocScrutinizer: here is rah's mail: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2012-March/066676.html |
| 11:48.59 | DocScrutinizer | as well as all the other stuff |
| 11:49.33 | pabs3 | good to hear |
| 11:50.35 | DocScrutinizer | well, I'd think OM domains never were related to FIC |
| 11:51.33 | DocScrutinizer | as mentioned above they were registered by Sean/OM_inc but moved to Harald Welte aka gnumonks some time ago. mickeyl should know details |
| 11:51.43 | DocScrutinizer | admins are roh and gismo |
| 11:51.58 | DocScrutinizer | roh can be found at freenode frequently |
| 11:52.16 | DocScrutinizer | though recently not so much in this very channel anymore |
| 11:53.03 | DocScrutinizer | I have no idea about git and svn, thought they were shut down years ago, since nothing useful happened on them |
| 11:53.23 | DocScrutinizer | download should live |
| 11:53.50 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise I'd wonder where from you could get "official" schematics etc |
| 11:54.10 | pabs3 | git at least has kernel, qemu etc stuff. IIRC svn had useful stuff in it too |
| 11:54.18 | DocScrutinizer | http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/ is fine |
| 11:55.07 | DocScrutinizer | who maintained kernel on git.om during last 2 years? |
| 11:55.46 | DocScrutinizer | sorry to confess I have no idea about sttaus of git etc |
| 11:56.10 | pabs3 | hardware issues according to Sean |
| 11:56.21 | DocScrutinizer | dated from? |
| 11:57.07 | pabs3 | my first mail to him was 22 Jan, IIRC it was down before then for a while too |
| 11:57.58 | pabs3 | last sunday he said: |
| 11:57.58 | pabs3 | The guys are in the process of buying hardware and reconfiguring the server. It will be at least a few weeks, I would imagine. |
| 11:58.00 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, I guess it was |
| 11:58.56 | DocScrutinizer | buying hardware?? strange, I thought we host on Hetzner rootservers that are leased |
| 12:00.15 | DocScrutinizer | I might try to log in to sita and possibly shakti as well, and see what's going on. But I doubt I could do much |
| 12:00.49 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not sure I have root on mail.om, quite probably not |
| 12:01.30 | DocScrutinizer | anyway I pinged roh and asked him to drop by here and help shed some light on the issue |
| 12:02.18 | DocScrutinizer | please ping me again in a few days when probelms persist and neither roh nor mickeyl answered |
| 12:02.45 | DocScrutinizer | mickeyl: ping |
| 12:02.58 | DocScrutinizer | ~seen mickeyl |
| 12:03.03 | apt | mickeyl is currently on #oe #openmoko #openmoko-cdevel, last said: 'gnight'. |
| 12:03.15 | rah | DocScrutinizer: PaulFertser and lindi- have made commits until relatively recently |
| 12:03.24 | DocScrutinizer | mhm |
| 12:03.38 | DocScrutinizer | so why didn't they ping me the minute it failed? |
| 12:04.08 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: ping |
| 12:04.14 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: ping |
| 12:04.21 | pabs3 | I guess people didn't know you were involved, I certainly didn't |
| 12:04.23 | DocScrutinizer | ^^^ what's up with this? |
| 12:04.24 | rah | they're not doing active development right now, I believe due to time constraints |
| 12:05.02 | DocScrutinizer | pabs3: lindi- and paul for sure know |
| 12:05.08 | DocScrutinizer | ;-D |
| 12:05.11 | rah | the absence of git.om.org is a problem for me though, in that I want to use the trees on it to get my GTA01 working |
| 12:05.23 | DocScrutinizer | fair point |
| 12:05.47 | DocScrutinizer | mickeyl is your man |
| 12:06.19 | DocScrutinizer | he knows more about om infra and who's doing what, than I do |
| 12:06.54 | DocScrutinizer | [2012-03-25 14:06:43] [Whois] mickeyl ist seit 52 Tagen, 14 Stunden, 3 Minuten und 43 Sekunden untätig. |
| 12:06.57 | DocScrutinizer | WTF?! |
| 12:07.46 | DocScrutinizer | I'm starting to feel concerned |
| 12:08.21 | rah | indeed |
| 12:22.56 | DocScrutinizer | c) of above: https://admin-trac.openmoko.org/trac/wiki/services -- down |
| 12:24.15 | DocScrutinizer | munin: https://monitor.openmoko.org/munin/bhavani/comparison-week.html -- down |
| 12:26.33 | DocScrutinizer | https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/ ok |
| 12:27.13 | DocScrutinizer | quite obviously one machine is down |
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| 13:04.33 | rah | at least |
| 13:17.30 | DocScrutinizer | roh hit the reset button of the machine that has issues |
| 13:17.54 | DocScrutinizer | might be back right now |
| 13:18.38 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, not yet |
| 13:19.14 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, we're aware, we're working on it. A new hw with less flaws is about to replace this rusty iron |
| 13:19.33 | DocScrutinizer | and no, OM infra is not and never was FIC |
| 13:19.56 | DocScrutinizer | actually it's all already "community" |
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| 14:00.22 | GNUtoo | morphis, hi |
| 14:00.53 | GNUtoo | morphis, do you have an idea for AT+VTS=N on gta04 |
| 14:01.00 | GNUtoo | I need that to work on sound |
| 14:01.11 | GNUtoo | I think I'll use qtmoko forwarder at the end |
| 14:01.17 | GNUtoo | it says no echo at all |
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| 14:01.44 | GNUtoo | so maybe oslec is not needed |
| 14:01.44 | JaMa | morphis: last staging is closed now, do you have some fso changes to push now? |
| 14:16.15 | DocScrutinizer | well, guys. If you're not pinging anybody of the "crew" (me, mickey, roh...) about any problems with OM infra, odds are nobody will take care at all |
| 14:17.03 | DocScrutinizer | rah: roh doesn't monitor the boxes nor the ML anymore on a regular basis. He's doing voluntary admin for this stuff, while Harald Welte pays for it |
| 14:18.30 | DocScrutinizer | rah: nevertheless the vhost will move on new iron eventually, together with other vhosts that are actually used on a regular basis by roh and others, so any hw defect like today will get noticed more in a timely manner |
| 14:19.03 | DocScrutinizer | his box has obviously some fried components, maybe NIC, or PSU |
| 14:19.18 | DocScrutinizer | this* box |
| 14:21.32 | DocScrutinizer | rah: regarding the whole FIC story you might want to read up some old tales and other stuff in the internets. Basically OM never been FIC, and FIC never been directly involved into OM |
| 14:22.43 | DocScrutinizer | OM and FIC shared some HR, some facilities, and some resources for sourcing and assembly/manufacturing which actually been done at a FIC plant for customer OM |
| 14:23.49 | DocScrutinizer | for quite a long time OM had their office in FIC building, and that's what you see on Sean's address in whois, though even this isn't correct anymore |
| 14:25.24 | DocScrutinizer | anyway for now openmoko.org domain is neither FIC nor openmoko_inc, on any level (except Sean still in admin-c, some odd detail) |
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| 14:37.07 | rah | DocScrutinizer: you haven't replied to my email |
| 14:37.27 | DocScrutinizer | it's getting tedous |
| 14:37.46 | DocScrutinizer | I'm not usually following this ML at all |
| 14:37.55 | GNUtoo | DocScrutinizer, hi, is there differences in the NOR bootloader of the gta02 that justify a patch for handling a parameter on hardware/software ECC for NAND? |
| 14:38.19 | DocScrutinizer | ummm |
| 14:38.22 | DocScrutinizer | lemme think |
| 14:38.31 | DocScrutinizer | if I even understand your question |
| 14:38.42 | rah | DocScrutinizer: it sounds to me like the community does not have control of om.org |
| 14:39.08 | DocScrutinizer | rah: depends on your definition of "community" |
| 14:39.17 | rah | DocScrutinizer: it sounds to me like the people who used to be involved in Openmoko Inc. have moved on from the community but still have control over community resources |
| 14:39.21 | DocScrutinizer | I feel like I have quite a bit of control |
| 14:39.41 | GNUtoo | there is that commit message: |
| 14:39.43 | GNUtoo | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:39.48 | DocScrutinizer | you're free to relieve me from that burden ;-D |
| 14:40.09 | GNUtoo | Early verions off uboot used for the gta02 flashed the nand with ecc information incompatible to s3c2440 hardware ecc. Disable hardware error correction by default, unless the bootloader explicitly enables it. |
| 14:40.23 | rah | DocScrutinizer: you just said you don't follow the community mailing list, yet you consider yourself part of the community? |
| 14:40.31 | GNUtoo | should I care about this patch or can I disable hardware ecc for all gta02? |
| 14:41.01 | DocScrutinizer | rah: you want a poll if I'm really "community" or not? |
| 14:41.15 | rah | DocScrutinizer: it might be useful if you shared with the community how we can go about ensuring that hosts which are down are dealt with |
| 14:41.29 | DocScrutinizer | rah: see, you didn't even know about me and my role, still you think *you* are "community"? |
| 14:41.32 | rah | DocScrutinizer: for example, by providing contact details for the hosts' administrators |
| 14:41.57 | GNUtoo | JaMa|Off, same issue for alsa |
| 14:42.00 | GNUtoo | with 3.3 |
| 14:42.10 | DocScrutinizer | rah: 80% of users here in know how to deal with servers down |
| 14:42.11 | GNUtoo | same issue than in linux-next |
| 14:42.22 | rah | DocScrutinizer: then why haven't they? |
| 14:42.28 | DocScrutinizer | dunno |
| 14:42.30 | GNUtoo | in-in-in-in-co-co-co-mi-mi-mi-mi-ng-ng-ng-g..... |
| 14:42.41 | GNUtoo | when playing /usr/share/sounds/female_ringtone.wav |
| 14:42.59 | DocScrutinizer | GNUtoo: sorry, catching up |
| 14:43.18 | GNUtoo | np |
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| 14:44.18 | rah | DocScrutinizer: I think the community has changed from what you knew |
| 14:44.27 | DocScrutinizer | GNUtoo: I think Zecke had a look into ECC in early 2010 or somesuch. I'm not aware of current status |
| 14:44.34 | GNUtoo | ok |
| 14:44.41 | DocScrutinizer | rah: so what? |
| 14:45.03 | rah | DocScrutinizer: I think people who used to be active in the community have moved on and stopped being active, and new people have come along and started participating in the community |
| 14:45.24 | rah | DocScrutinizer: the new people, like myself, do not know how to deal with servers being down |
| 14:45.46 | DocScrutinizer | again, so what? I haven't moved on, as well as a lot of users here haven't |
| 14:45.48 | rah | DocScrutinizer: we need you to tell us |
| 14:46.07 | DocScrutinizer | OK, I did my best to tell you |
| 14:46.15 | rah | DocScrutinizer: preferably in a way that is widely visible, and easily retrieved; ie, in an email to the community mailing list |
| 14:46.39 | DocScrutinizer | alas the page to report issues with OM infra is down itself, so the situation is a bit unfortunate right now |
| 14:47.15 | DocScrutinizer | rah: fair point |
| 14:47.23 | rah | DocScrutinizer: could you write an email to the community mailing list containing contact details for the current om.org host admins? |
| 14:47.31 | rah | please? |
| 14:47.40 | DocScrutinizer | I will ask Roh to do that |
| 14:48.02 | DocScrutinizer | no better info that direct info, no? ;-) |
| 14:49.22 | rah | I am concerned that Roh will not do that |
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| 14:52.07 | DocScrutinizer | rah: however keep in mind that such a mail to community ML will not be visible as soon as ML vhost goes down |
| 14:52.50 | DocScrutinizer | so the situation will be marginally different to what we have now where that info is on https://admin-trac.openmoko.org/trac/wiki/services |
| 14:54.19 | DocScrutinizer | you're however free to send a mail / blog / tweet / whatever, mentioning you managed to meet some of the oldtimers with a clue here on #openmoko-cdevel in freenode IRC |
| 14:54.57 | DocScrutinizer | yell here and somebody will hear you |
| 14:55.06 | DocScrutinizer | that'S a promise |
| 14:55.18 | DocScrutinizer | if nobody answers, pinf me directly |
| 14:55.23 | DocScrutinizer | ping even |
| 14:55.54 | DocScrutinizer | me, or mickeyl, or PaulFertser, or mrmoku`, or.... or... |
| 14:56.24 | DocScrutinizer | basically everybody in here knows who's doing what |
| 14:56.37 | DocScrutinizer | so *this* is the community |
| 14:58.55 | DocScrutinizer | of course you also can send a mail to me, joerg at openmoko dot org |
| 15:00.13 | DocScrutinizer | /whois roh |
| 15:00.53 | DocScrutinizer | I admit we have no 24/7 helpdesk anymore, but then we're all volunteers |
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| 17:33.35 | GNUtoo | morphis, ping |
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| 18:16.16 | rah | Roh has not done that |
| 18:16.21 | rah | DocScrutinizer: I've replied to your email |
| 18:17.43 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, nice. |
| 18:17.59 | DocScrutinizer | I'll not bother anymore. Go pester somebody else |
| 18:20.39 | DocScrutinizer | listen buddy, I'm just volunteering to care about all that stuff (just like all the other guys that do). We're not amused when somebody approaches us with a demanding attitude that implies we behave inappropriate for the duties we are in service for. There are no such obligations on any of us. You obviously haven't wrapped your head around the fact yet that openmoko.org already *is* owned by "community" and none of us owns you |
| 18:20.41 | DocScrutinizer | anything |
| 18:28.56 | DocScrutinizer | if you feel "we are in trouble" then offer to do it better, suggest improvements |
| 18:30.11 | DocScrutinizer | now that you know what's it all about, why don't *you* hang out in this chan 24/7, reading *all* posts and answering questions like yours when the next one drops by complaining about whatever? |
| 18:30.38 | DocScrutinizer | problem solved |
| 18:32.33 | DocScrutinizer | I bet you're also welcome you pay a couple of servers at any arbitrary hoster, and probably Roh will help eventually when he finds time between his daywork to create an account for you on *.openmoko.org so you can mirror whatever you want |
| 18:33.18 | DocScrutinizer | I'd even bet a lot of openmoko.* domains are still free, so you can pick any of those for that serverfarm |
| 18:34.07 | DocScrutinizer | then starr your flavour of community, that's not formed of suspicious lazy asshats like me that formerly were involved in openmoko.com |
| 18:40.31 | DocScrutinizer | anf for the "could you please provide email addr of Roh" part. No I won't, as probably Roh will beat me up disclosing his addr so he gets pestered in such a way |
| 18:42.01 | rah | woah |
| 18:42.18 | PaulFertser | Well, in fact one can easily find his address anyway... |
| 18:42.38 | PaulFertser | Hey DocScrutinizer |
| 18:44.09 | rah | PaulFertser: how can one find his address? |
| 18:45.10 | PaulFertser | rah: ahem |
| 18:45.22 | rah | PaulFertser: what do you mean? |
| 18:47.25 | PaulFertser | rah: i'm not sorry but i'm not sure i should explain how to collect specific information about people that probably wouldn't like this kind of attention. |
| 18:48.09 | rah | what |
| 18:48.10 | rah | the |
| 18:48.11 | rah | fuck |
| 18:48.18 | rah | "this kind of attention"? |
| 18:48.40 | rah | are you all nuts? |
| 18:48.50 | rah | I just want to know who to contact when a host goes down |
| 18:48.52 | PaulFertser | rah: sure thing, at least i certainly am :) |
| 18:49.20 | PaulFertser | rah: I think Joerg explained it now pretty well in the last mail to the community mailing list. |
| 18:49.22 | rah | PaulFertser: you're not a rational person? |
| 18:49.40 | PaulFertser | rah: just drop by here, ask if others can confirm the problem, then ping roh. |
| 18:49.50 | rah | what if roh is not here? |
| 18:50.19 | PaulFertser | rah: a person doesn't need to be on the channel for you to be able to send him private messages. |
| 18:50.28 | rah | what if roh is not here on this network? |
| 18:51.04 | rah | scratch that |
| 18:51.29 | PaulFertser | rah: he's almost always is. |
| 18:51.31 | rah | why do you not want to give out contact details for the named administrators of openmoko.org hosts? |
| 18:51.48 | rah | I can't imagine roh would actually beat up DocScrutinizer |
| 18:52.36 | PaulFertser | rah: i think DocScrutinizer has some rationale behind not telling you his contact details, i'm not sure why he does that... |
| 18:52.59 | rah | if you truly are members of the openmoko community, I would imagine you would want the community to have the best tools at its disposal for the development of free phones |
| 18:53.08 | PaulFertser | rah: of course |
| 18:53.19 | rah | which means hosts the community uses should be appropriately maintained |
| 18:53.33 | PaulFertser | rah: roh told me that the new hardware is coming really soon and that he'll take care of migrating. |
| 18:54.11 | PaulFertser | And before the new hardware comes not much can be done except for the rebooting the machine whenever it's stuck. |
| 18:54.19 | rah | which means that there should be some method of contacting those with responsibility for the hosts, so that they can deal with any problems that arise |
| 18:54.36 | PaulFertser | Yes, IRC worked fine so far. |
| 18:54.42 | rah | no, it hasn't |
| 18:55.08 | PaulFertser | rah: was he really off freenode? Hm, i've never seen him doing that. |
| 18:55.25 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel playya__ (~playya@unaffiliated/playya) |
| 18:55.33 | CIA-51 | SHR: 03shr-devel 07buildhistory * rbb55b6a1ba72 10/packages/ (443 files in 443 dirs): Build 201203251730 of shr 20120325 for machine om-gta04 on opmbuild |
| 18:55.34 | rah | IRC is not a reliable method of contacting system administrators |
| 18:55.49 | rah | email is because it does not require the presence or vigilance of any person |
| 18:56.51 | PaulFertser | I bet he runs an irc client on some stable server so he's always online... |
| 18:57.10 | rah | DocScrutinizer: do you have some rationale behind not telling others roh's contact details? |
| 18:58.27 | rah | why is there such unwillingness to share this information? |
| 18:58.39 | DocScrutinizer | rah: you're not in a position to advise the actually existing community about how we do our business |
| 18:58.53 | rah | PaulFertser: why are you clinging on to the idea of notifying administrators through IRC? |
| 18:58.58 | PaulFertser | rah: why do you have such persistance to get this information from Doc instead of obtaining it from the usual public sources? |
| 18:59.16 | DocScrutinizer | because on your side there's such desire to pester Roh directly, while that's not what he wants |
| 18:59.41 | rah | PaulFertser: the only usual public sources that I know of to determine who administers a machine is the WHOIS database which, in this instance, provides no useful information |
| 19:00.19 | rah | DocScrutinizer: you didn't answer my question; is there some rationale behind not telling others roh's contact details? |
| 19:00.28 | DocScrutinizer | I gave proper instructions how to contact me, and I'll take care about it. If that's not what you want to do or get done, you're on your own. And I wasted way too much time on all this already |
| 19:00.41 | rah | PaulFertser: what public sources are you referring to? |
| 19:00.44 | DocScrutinizer | YES SIR! I ANSWERED IT |
| 19:00.55 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: please stop it |
| 19:01.07 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: ok |
| 19:01.45 | PaulFertser | rah: sorry but i have to stop. Apparently roh wants to deal with requests for maintanence only through proxies. Doc and I volunteer to act as such. |
| 19:01.57 | rah | that's fucking ridiculous |
| 19:02.08 | DocScrutinizer | :shrug: |
| 19:04.38 | DocScrutinizer | I think Roh is well capable of deciding on his own what he wants to publish for contact addr, and I made him aware of your request. Now it's up to him, and NO SIR I WON'T GIVE YOU addr so you can escalate this meaningless nagging |
| 19:05.10 | DocScrutinizer | you are NOT "the community" - WE are |
| 19:06.18 | rah | that's just sad |
| 19:06.25 | DocScrutinizer | suggests a really rewarding reading to rah: |
| 19:06.30 | DocScrutinizer | ~questions |
| 19:06.30 | apt | remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people. <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html> |
| 19:07.17 | rah | you have a little identity with a little community and you feel threatened by someone wanting the email address for a host administrator |
| 19:07.38 | rah | it would be funny if so much valuable information weren't at stake |
| 19:15.54 | DocScrutinizer | if anybody considers this trolling, don't hesitate to act accordingly. I'm out, it's too much stupidity for me right now |
| 19:18.21 | CIA-51 | freesmartphone.org: 03morphis 07cornucopia * rbd38aaf4e86a 10/src/Makefile.am: Generate namespaces for all classes with org::freesmartphone as prefix |
| 19:27.54 | DocScrutinizer | dang all that valuable info at stake, because this guy doesn't get the business card of a random person he knows nothing about but thinks he needs to pester directly, instead of accepting the suggested procedure that has been put onto the mailing list in clear simple words just for this guy's special request |
| 19:28.24 | rah | the suggested procedure has been shown not to work |
| 19:28.35 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:28.43 | DocScrutinizer | have you pinged me? NO |
| 19:28.49 | DocScrutinizer | now shut up or leave |
| 19:29.27 | rah | I misunderstood |
| 19:29.39 | rah | I didn't realise that addressing you personally was the suggested procedure |
| 19:44.33 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel matr0 (~matr0@e178136140.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:13.46 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: pong? |
| 20:15.21 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: umm, I guess it's already timed out :-D |
| 20:15.34 | DocScrutinizer | actually I forgot what it was about |
| 20:15.46 | DocScrutinizer | sorry |
| 20:15.53 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: but yeah I've noticed that git.openmoko.org is unreliable but don't know much what to do about it. my kernel work is in git.debian.org and gitorious |
| 20:16.13 | DocScrutinizer | aah, yup. okay |
| 20:16.15 | DocScrutinizer | thanks |
| 20:16.16 | lindi- | I was never given any push access to git.openmoko.org anyway |
| 20:16.46 | lindi- | but I'd hate to lose the wiki or mailing list archives |
| 20:17.00 | DocScrutinizer | the unreliability is due to some worn out hw in the box. It gets replaced in a short while |
| 20:17.13 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: won't happen :-D |
| 20:17.14 | lindi- | I've made some copies of the wiki but it's difficult since mediawiki export scripts are not very polished |
| 20:18.02 | DocScrutinizer | though I agree (and always did) we should get a mirror somewhere outside the usual infra |
| 20:18.14 | DocScrutinizer | the problem is like you already noticed |
| 20:18.22 | rah | boggles |
| 20:19.52 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: I also got a not so recent wget copy of the wiki, and my mail archive is probably over-complete :-D |
| 20:20.16 | misc | or dump the db after removing the user info |
| 20:21.30 | DocScrutinizer | misc: sure, we could probably do all this, but it's quite a bit of work. And I have no direct access to the wiki machine, or if I have then I don't know the machine config enough to mess with it. I prefer roh to do this |
| 20:22.15 | misc | DocScrutinizer: I suspect mediawiki fundation to have a script to do that ( they do for wikipedia ) |
| 20:22.57 | DocScrutinizer | :nod: maybe if you can find such script, the whole thing can be done in a few hours |
| 20:23.35 | DocScrutinizer | for now, the servers have regular backup schemes running, and nobody is planning to tear them down |
| 20:24.42 | DocScrutinizer | it's just the maintenance is quite some overhead in relation to the actual size of project, so roh is managing all this in his spare time and that sometimes delays things a day or two |
| 20:25.23 | DocScrutinizer | but there's definitely nothing "on the stake" |
| 20:26.08 | DocScrutinizer | and for now harald and roh feel like keeping the arrangement like it is |
| 20:26.25 | misc | the only thing I found is https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data_dumps#Producing_your_own_dumps |
| 20:26.34 | DocScrutinizer | modulo some new iron for the flaky machine |
| 20:26.47 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: is harald still involved? |
| 20:26.48 | misc | but I think I will first try to deploy this on $OTHER_PROJECT wiki to see how it goes |
| 20:26.50 | DocScrutinizer | I think that's known |
| 20:27.15 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: harald is paying the infra |
| 20:27.25 | lindi- | ok |
| 20:27.30 | DocScrutinizer | and basically owning the domains |
| 20:27.42 | lindi- | ok, didn't know any of this |
| 20:28.07 | DocScrutinizer | well, now you know ;-) |
| 20:28.35 | DocScrutinizer | the DNS entries for openmoko.org suggest it though |
| 20:29.16 | DocScrutinizer | >> Name Server:ORGO.PROGSOC.UTS.EDU.AU Name Server:GANESHA.GNUMONKS.ORG Name Server:CORUSCANT.GNUMONKS.ORG Name Server:SUNBEAM.HMW-CONSULTING.DE Name Server:DNS.NETFILTER.ORG |
| 20:29.20 | lindi- | have you thought about declassifying some of the #openmoko-devel logs btw? I'm curious what kind of plans there were in the beginning |
| 20:30.30 | DocScrutinizer | umm, nope. I don't think we can safely disclose these, as we can't get approval by everybody who posted a silly joke in this chan |
| 20:30.45 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: yeah of course you can't publish them completely but at least some interesting quotes would be nice |
| 20:30.51 | DocScrutinizer | besides there are no logs |
| 20:31.04 | lindi- | like when was the first time somebody sent an sms successfully |
| 20:31.16 | DocScrutinizer | all this is public |
| 20:31.24 | lindi- | oh? |
| 20:31.28 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel Orias_Korva (~atilla@d54C4E1E0.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:31.45 | DocScrutinizer | there's much mytery about #openmoko-devel, actually it's been not that interesting |
| 20:31.56 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: well how could I know :P |
| 20:32.06 | DocScrutinizer | sure, that'S why I tell you |
| 20:32.38 | DocScrutinizer | e.g the traffic always been 10..~1% of cdevel |
| 20:32.50 | DocScrutinizer | in the beginning |
| 20:33.00 | DocScrutinizer | since years the channel is dead |
| 20:33.22 | lindi- | yeah just started thinking this since debian is planning to publish some debian-private mails from early history |
| 20:33.39 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel JaMa (~martin@94.230.152.246) |
| 20:33.59 | DocScrutinizer | it's not up to me to decide about that. At that time I've been employee/contractor of OM_inc |
| 20:34.36 | DocScrutinizer | means I also have to obey my NDA |
| 20:35.14 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: well I couldn't know what that says :) |
| 20:35.32 | DocScrutinizer | actually the internal MLs might be way more interesting than #om-devel |
| 20:35.41 | lindi- | yeah |
| 20:36.28 | DocScrutinizer | but if anybody could disclose those, then it's Sean |
| 20:37.27 | DocScrutinizer | even for the internal ML, my ears still ring from wolfgang shouting PUBLIC! MAKE IT PUBLIC!! |
| 20:38.15 | DocScrutinizer | means we later on did exatly same discussions on the public MLs that formerly were done on intML |
| 20:38.47 | DocScrutinizer | we just had to obey some annoying rules like not talking about case and design of GTA04 etc |
| 20:39.16 | DocScrutinizer | which always was a bit of an annoyance when doing internal EE etc discussions on pubML |
| 20:40.03 | rah | where do your discussions take place now? |
| 20:40.11 | DocScrutinizer | here |
| 20:40.43 | DocScrutinizer | there's no "your" anymore. OM_the_inc is out of phone business |
| 20:41.07 | rah | I thought you were the community |
| 20:41.24 | DocScrutinizer | and I have no clue if and what Sean discusses now, where, and with whom |
| 20:42.05 | DocScrutinizer | yes, we are the community, and I talked about "we, the OM_inc" with lindi |
| 20:42.57 | DocScrutinizer | there's no more such "we, the OM_inc" discussions anywhere |
| 20:43.07 | DocScrutinizer | there's only "we, the community" now |
| 20:43.17 | DocScrutinizer | and you either are a part of it, or not |
| 20:43.22 | rah | indeed |
| 20:43.24 | DocScrutinizer | up to you to dcide |
| 20:45.10 | DocScrutinizer | even if you decide you're part of it, you're not in a position to blame anybody else about what we cureently do with wiki or whatever. You may suggest to take responsibility and contribute |
| 20:45.27 | rah | indeed |
| 20:46.11 | DocScrutinizer | but we don't need anybody questioning our attitude and ways we do things |
| 20:47.17 | DocScrutinizer | and if Roh doesn't like to get pestered by random inquiries and thus decides he doesn't publish his email, then that's absolutely legit |
| 20:47.18 | lindi- | I'm ok with people questioning my attitude :) |
| 20:49.22 | DocScrutinizer | we're also not asking your phonenumber and geo-address to send you random packages, just when we think this was the right way to contact you and let you know something |
| 20:50.14 | DocScrutinizer | and if you think that's ridiculous, then sorry dude |
| 20:50.27 | lindi- | I've moved since you last sent me a letter btw :) |
| 20:50.37 | DocScrutinizer | I really got better things to do in my rare spare time |
| 20:50.51 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: I wasn't talking to yu :-D |
| 20:51.25 | rah | DocScrutinizer: true, you do have something better to do with your time: you have to act as roh's proxy :-) |
| 20:51.30 | DocScrutinizer | anyway, you moved :-) better place now? |
| 20:51.46 | DocScrutinizer | rah: yes |
| 20:52.16 | DocScrutinizer | and if you are not comfortable with this, then use the admin-trac and stop pestering us here |
| 20:53.03 | rah | I'm comfortable with using you as a proxy, I just think it's absurd |
| 20:53.28 | DocScrutinizer | that's your cup of tea. I'm not interested in this notion of yours |
| 20:53.51 | DocScrutinizer | that's the way it is, take it or leave it |
| 20:53.55 | misc | well, that's maybe not the most productive way but I can understand that someone may want someone else to act as a buffer |
| 20:54.10 | misc | I mean, we see it for doctor, for businessman, for lots of thing |
| 20:55.24 | DocScrutinizer | rah: maybe you also want the number of the technicians at Hetzner? So you can directly pester *them* about the broken NIC in that box? |
| 20:56.03 | rah | DocScrutinizer: I don't think that's a sensible suggestion |
| 20:56.19 | DocScrutinizer | are you sure you will have much success in doing so, without the proper background info you don'T have |
| 20:57.11 | DocScrutinizer | then what makes you think pestering Roh or Gismo directly is any different from pestering Hetzner helpdesk or even technicians |
| 20:58.15 | DocScrutinizer | or - LOL - even _Harald Welte, wherever he just might be |
| 21:00.44 | DocScrutinizer | are you insisting in private phonenumber of Bill Gates to discuss your windows related problem with him? are you engaging in strange discussions with M$ helpdesk to make them disclose this phone number to you? |
| 21:00.44 | rah | DocScrutinizer: you've told me that Roh and Gismo are the hosts' administrators |
| 21:01.33 | DocScrutinizer | so what? where is written this implies your direct contact to them? |
| 21:02.12 | DocScrutinizer | by whatever means you pick and think are best suited, at the time you choose? |
| 21:02.32 | rah | DocScrutinizer: it doesn't have to be written down for something to be true |
| 21:03.07 | DocScrutinizer | errr, yes and 1 + 1 = 2 |
| 21:03.20 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 21:03.24 | DocScrutinizer | bye |
| 21:03.41 | rah | DocScrutinizer: in my view, it is reasonable and in fact expected, that a host's administrator will respond to emails from that host's users |
| 21:04.44 | DocScrutinizer | see? that'S the reason why you won't get the mail addr from me |
| 21:04.45 | rah | DocScrutinizer: I've never seen that view written down; it's just something that's developed through my experience as both a user and an administrator |
| 21:05.46 | DocScrutinizer | we are running another procedure here, and we don't care to implement yours |
| 21:06.28 | DocScrutinizer | to be precise, *Roh* is handling this differently |
| 21:07.05 | DocScrutinizer | and I won't force anything onto him, and for sure I won't help *you* to do that |
| 21:07.49 | DocScrutinizer | your aproach is exactly that last drop mentioned in |
| 21:07.52 | DocScrutinizer | ~questions |
| 21:07.52 | apt | remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people. <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html> |
| 21:08.02 | DocScrutinizer | you should read that carefully |
| 21:08.35 | DocScrutinizer | then rethink |
| 21:09.09 | DocScrutinizer | once again, we owe you nothing |
| 21:09.27 | DocScrutinizer | you're free to yoin in contributing as a peer |
| 21:09.33 | DocScrutinizer | join* |
| 21:10.52 | rah | likewise, I owe you nothing :-) |
| 21:10.53 | DocScrutinizer | IOW we are not the company you bought your FR from (did you actually?), we are users just like you, just we *do* sth instead of pestering others to do sth in a way we think might be the right one |
| 21:12.28 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel hal14450 (~hal@definitely.playingwithoutafulldeck.com) |
| 21:14.02 | rah | I could never have expected anything from Roh because I had no idea that Roh existed before today |
| 21:15.37 | rah | I don't expect Roh to answer my questions |
| 21:18.09 | DocScrutinizer | ok, there's a well established set of procedures to cope with infra problems, there's been comprehensive info on whyt's going on in infra, both organisational and technical. The topic has been discussed ad nauseum. I now declare this a ban'able subject and request stopping any further discussion on it, before the other half of users in this chan also gets nausea or dizziness |
| 21:19.10 | rah | fascist |
| 21:19.14 | *** mode/#openmoko-cdevel [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 21:19.22 | *** kick/#openmoko-cdevel [rah!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) |
| 21:19.26 | *** mode/#openmoko-cdevel [-o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 21:20.42 | lindi- | sigh |
| 21:22.42 | DocScrutinizer | lindi-: this one was just for personal insult |
| 21:24.47 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer: I don't think I can comment on this without being kicked sorry :/ |
| 21:25.07 | DocScrutinizer | what makes you tink I'd kick you? |
| 21:25.21 | DocScrutinizer | are you going to call me fascist as well? :-) |
| 21:25.50 | misc | we can call you communist dictator if you prefer /o\ |
| 21:25.58 | DocScrutinizer | hehehe |
| 21:26.29 | misc | anyway, I really do not understand why you are so upset, as he seemed to have stopped asking |
| 21:27.50 | misc | ( on the other hand, I missed the start of discussion, so that would explain ) |
| 21:27.57 | DocScrutinizer | well, probably it's been the constant attitude like "you're rogue owners of this valuable info, hand it out to the community! to somebody not related to OM" |
| 21:30.27 | DocScrutinizer | also this alarmed shouting "if that's your best advice, then we are in real trouble" |
| 21:30.54 | DocScrutinizer | while evidently this dude knew nothing about the real facts |
| 21:31.21 | DocScrutinizer | which he compensated by stating false assumptions as facts |
| 21:33.54 | DocScrutinizer | we had several such guys recently. One of them even started to collect money to hire some goons to make me and Paul hand out sourcecode of calypso, or sth like that (we never ever had those srccodes, btw) |
| 21:34.38 | DocScrutinizer | soory when I'm getting a bit upset when I smell similar attitude |
| 21:35.40 | misc | maybe that's the same |
| 21:35.53 | misc | but yes I have seen |
| 21:36.27 | misc | DocScrutinizer: maybe you should have collected the money by giving some obsfucated source code, like the osmocombb after using some perl on it |
| 21:36.34 | misc | and adding fake copyright |
| 21:37.16 | DocScrutinizer | this dude didn't plan to give money to us, he planned to beat us up |
| 21:38.21 | misc | ok, so let's do that. I get paid to beat you, you get 30% for saying that I did the job, and I give some fake tarball |
| 21:39.10 | DocScrutinizer | mad badshit crooks out there |
| 21:39.20 | DocScrutinizer | :-S |
| 21:40.01 | DocScrutinizer | misc: I'm not that amused by this plan either. Dudes like that one you should keep on distance, not make business with them |
| 21:40.03 | misc | even better, we do that, and we then do a movie about it ( cause of course, the plan will not go well ) |
| 21:40.30 | misc | DocScrutinizer: I am really doubtful he will do anything |
| 21:40.54 | DocScrutinizer | for sure he won't - until he sees an easy opportunity |
| 21:40.54 | misc | I know that's easy to say for me because i am not concerned |
| 21:41.29 | DocScrutinizer | assume I actually give him the codes cause I'm a nice guy. 6 weeks later he sends the heat at me |
| 21:42.10 | misc | have you tried to see the cops ? |
| 21:42.18 | DocScrutinizer | meh |
| 21:42.26 | misc | cause I think that might be forbidden |
| 21:42.46 | misc | and usually, receiving a phone call from the cop has a chilling efect :) |
| 21:42.47 | DocScrutinizer | I again got better things to do with my time |
| 21:44.09 | DocScrutinizer | this rah guy only missed to add the second half of "give me Roh's address" "so I can shout at him why the server is down" |
| 21:44.26 | DocScrutinizer | and now I gonna kick myself ;-D |
| 21:44.33 | *** mode/#openmoko-cdevel [+o DocScrutinizer] by ChanServ |
| 21:44.43 | *** kick/#openmoko-cdevel [DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg] by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!) |
| 21:45.06 | misc | think doc is tired |
| 21:46.27 | jake42 | i bet. this has been going on for 10 hours.. |
| 21:46.55 | lindi- | I had a really hectic day today thanks to the daylight savings change :) |
| 21:47.57 | jake42 | who ever invented that |
| 21:49.46 | lindi- | I was playing the mafia game with some friends till 1am or so and suddenly realized that they are going to move the time forward. then I woke up an hour too late because I forgot to adjust my alarm clock (openmoko is not realiable enough..) |
| 21:51.12 | lindi- | so I woke up and noticed that I'm supposed to be playing beach volleyball in 10 minutes. didn't have any time to eat breakfast, just had to hop on my bike and ride as fast as possible to not miss the game |
| 21:51.28 | GNUtoo | lindi-, hi |
| 21:51.37 | lindi- | so eventually I finished my breakfast at 9pm |
| 21:51.39 | GNUtoo | I added that to kernel cmdline: init=/bin/ash |
| 21:51.45 | GNUtoo | but it doesn't show up ash |
| 21:51.51 | GNUtoo | same with bash |
| 21:51.57 | GNUtoo | any ideas |
| 21:52.03 | lindi- | GNUtoo: initramfs? |
| 21:52.03 | GNUtoo | I've a grey zone I can't bisect |
| 21:52.12 | GNUtoo | I've no initramfs handy |
| 21:52.23 | lindi- | GNUtoo: you might want to try initramfs |
| 21:52.28 | jake42 | I don't really see what good should come from DST |
| 21:54.01 | lindi- | jake42: well, nice adventures like this :) |
| 21:54.19 | GNUtoo | does someone have an armv4t initramfs? |
| 21:54.58 | lindi- | GNUtoo: you want to generate one that matches your setup and kernel |
| 21:55.26 | GNUtoo | yes of course but I wanted to repack an existing one |
| 21:55.57 | lindi- | GNUtoo: so you have a broken initramfs? |
| 21:56.05 | GNUtoo | ah now it works |
| 21:56.07 | GNUtoo | no |
| 21:56.39 | GNUtoo | it seems that there is a commit that breaks init=/bin/bash |
| 21:56.56 | lindi- | GNUtoo: initramfs works? |
| 21:57.22 | GNUtoo | no |
| 21:57.26 | lindi- | GNUtoo: "init=/bin/bash" is not the best way to debug if you use initramfs since its code gets executed before bash |
| 21:57.29 | GNUtoo | bin/bash works on certain commits |
| 21:57.33 | lindi- | ok |
| 21:58.33 | GNUtoo | is it possible to bisect in a bisect? |
| 22:00.10 | lindi- | GNUtoo: hmm? |
| 22:09.08 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel DocScrutinizer (~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 22:10.17 | DocScrutinizer | sorry chan |
| 22:14.02 | lindi- | GNUtoo: I need to sleep now |
| 22:15.44 | GNUtoo | DocScrutinizer, about the communist that wants to get proprietary incomplete source code it also made me furious |
| 22:16.07 | GNUtoo | I work hard on nuttx to make free baseband usable |
| 22:16.28 | GNUtoo | *baseband usable with free software |
| 22:17.18 | DocScrutinizer | well, for a completely different topic: when did mickey last time show up here, actively? |
| 22:17.21 | GNUtoo | and there are people who prefer proprietary incomplete source code + binary blobs |
| 22:17.39 | GNUtoo | DocScrutinizer, last time I saw mickeyl was at fosdem |
| 22:17.54 | DocScrutinizer | that's quite some tme ago, no? |
| 22:18.02 | GNUtoo | he was too tired to work on the gta04 |
| 22:18.24 | GNUtoo | 4-5 february 2012 |
| 22:18.41 | DocScrutinizer | and no word since? |
| 22:18.49 | GNUtoo | I don't think so |
| 22:18.57 | DocScrutinizer | concerning |
| 22:19.01 | GNUtoo | I don't remember well tough |
| 22:19.07 | GNUtoo | because the period is long since then |
| 22:19.39 | GNUtoo | what do you mean by concerning exactly? |
| 22:19.55 | DocScrutinizer | I just hope he's well |
| 22:19.59 | GNUtoo | ok |
| 22:20.08 | GNUtoo | me too |
| 22:20.20 | GNUtoo | I think he's just very busy with other stuff |
| 22:20.43 | DocScrutinizer | I hope so - well he got a newborn child :-) |
| 22:21.05 | DocScrutinizer | might be time for teething |
| 22:21.09 | DocScrutinizer | ;-) |
| 22:22.13 | DocScrutinizer | knows nothing about when it's time for teething, anyway just hopes this is a good explanation for mickey being so quiet |
| 23:04.32 | *** join/#openmoko-cdevel lluvia (~lluvia@fsf/member/lluvia) |