irclog2html for #openjtag on 20050909

`01:56.57`	`*** join/#openjtag [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2)`
`06:25.07`	`*** join/#openjtag ep1220 (n=NN@gate.epatec.at)`
`08:10.17`	`*** join/#openjtag ka6sox (n=ka6sox@nslu2-linux/ka6sox)`
`08:12.42`	`ep1220`	`ka6sox: Still awake or already awake ;-)`
`08:14.25`	`ka6sox`	`still`
`08:14.33`	`ka6sox`	`not sleeping much these days...`
`08:14.49`	`*** join/#openjtag odoc (i=odoc@is.borntobooze.de)`
`08:14.58`	`ep1220`	`hopefully paid work :-)`
`08:15.17`	`ka6sox`	`some.`
`08:15.43`	`ka6sox`	`I had to go to a funeral last weekend so there went my time for finishing the layout.`
`08:15.43`	`ep1220`	`I was wondering what Your plans about the FTDI jtag are`
`08:15.53`	`ep1220`	`sorry, to hear this`
`08:16.12`	`ka6sox`	`but I like the FTDI JTAG solution better than most.`
`08:16.27`	`ka6sox`	`its plenty fast and should be easy to implement.`
`08:16.36`	`ka6sox`	`(software wise)`
`08:16.45`	`ep1220`	`Well, speed depends on what You do.`
`08:16.55`	`ep1220`	`JTAG clock is high`
`08:17.13`	`ep1220`	`but You loose time on USB communication`
`08:17.43`	`ep1220`	`When You have to switch read/write direction it gets slow`
`08:18.28`	`ep1220`	`eg. if You poll for a change in a bit . You get one poll per millisecond`
`08:18.31`	`ka6sox`	`in our case its downright painful to program a Xscale with 256KB of Bootloader from a wiggler.`
`08:18.45`	`ep1220`	`How long ?`
`08:18.50`	`ka6sox`	`40 minutes`
`08:19.00`	`ep1220`	`Argh ..`
`08:19.21`	`ka6sox`	`498bits is a lot to push through`
`08:19.58`	`ka6sox`	`no MIPS shortcuts`
`08:20.23`	`ep1220`	`With FTDI You could get 1K/sec (slowest modes)`
`08:21.07`	`ka6sox`	`1K bits/sec or words per second?`
`08:21.15`	`ep1220`	`Bytes`
`08:21.33`	`ka6sox`	`so under 6 minutes to program it...a big savings`
`08:21.57`	`ep1220`	`If You use the CPU as well (and have RAM working) , you can get as fast as the FLASH can go`
`08:22.04`	`ka6sox`	`makes bootloader developement a lot les painful.`
`08:22.24`	`ep1220`	`With out RAM I estimate 16KBytes/sec`
`08:22.29`	`ka6sox`	`that has been discussed...I would like to see what that might do.`
`08:22.57`	`ep1220`	`Yuo do not need to shift 498 bits, but only 16 bits per word.`
`08:23.20`	`ep1220`	`Plus a little overhead (like baseaddress, num of words )`
`08:23.25`	`ka6sox`	`ya`
`08:23.51`	`ka6sox`	`how would you propose to fill the ram?`
`08:24.04`	`ka6sox`	`(to be flashed?`
`08:24.32`	`ep1220`	`There is a FLASH Prog stub in X-scale cache.`
`08:25.13`	`ep1220`	`It takes data from JTAG (approx 40 clocks to transfer 32bits)`
`08:25.23`	`ep1220`	`and stores into RAM`
`08:25.32`	`ep1220`	`This can be done with minimal handshake`
`08:25.39`	`ka6sox`	`cool`
`08:25.45`	`ep1220`	`Then prog from RAM to FLASH`
`08:26.11`	`ep1220`	`If there is no RAM, only internal registers can be used as buffers.`
`08:26.23`	`ep1220`	`Well, maybe also the onchiop data-chache (?)`
`08:27.18`	`ka6sox`	`k`
`08:27.43`	`ka6sox`	`sounds like a reasonable method for programming up the bootloader partition.`
`08:28.20`	`ka6sox`	`and might lead to some fixes to RedBoot to enable FatSlugs (our name for NSLU2's with more memory added)`
`08:29.01`	`ep1220`	`the bootloader is 256K ?`
`08:29.26`	`ka6sox`	`yes..with the ethernet code`
`08:29.52`	`ep1220`	`Do You know how many people would be interested in this ?`
`08:30.09`	`ka6sox`	`5 that I personally know of.`
`08:30.17`	`ka6sox`	`3 who are doing work on bootloaders.`
`08:30.31`	`ka6sox`	`I"m interested because of fattening slugs.`
`08:31.01`	`ka6sox`	`(and I presume others would be interested too for the same reason.`
`08:31.28`	`ka6sox`	`I'm sure there are others too.`
`08:32.29`	`ep1220`	`I could have built a small run of FTDI base-PCBs. Also include circuit to have it like 1.5-3.3V compatible`
`08:33.09`	`ka6sox`	`I would buy one now.`
`08:33.14`	`ep1220`	`I guess DLP2232 plus this board + parts would come at something like 65-70USD`
`08:33.40`	`ka6sox`	`especially if it allows us to make things easier to program.`
`08:33.48`	`ka6sox`	`been holding things up.`
`08:34.32`	`ep1220`	`Could You contact the others if this price range is OK ?`
`08:34.46`	`ep1220`	`I could make the PCBs only.`
`08:35.35`	`ep1220`	`Or try to see if price comes down if I buy parts in slightly larger quantitities and sell on PCB+parts`
`08:36.11`	`ep1220`	`One thing: the speed-up is for XScale only.`
`08:36.29`	`ep1220`	`ARM and MIPS woudl be slower.`
`08:39.37`	`ka6sox`	`MIPS has eJTAG and if we could crack that it would be faster too.`
`08:39.46`	`ka6sox`	`I'm also thinking about PPC`
`08:39.59`	`ep1220`	`Do not know PPC JTAG.`
`08:40.05`	`ka6sox`	`(we currently use a BDM for programming it)`
`08:40.24`	`ep1220`	`MIPS does not allow to load code into a cache.`
`08:40.50`	`ep1220`	`You can only load WORDs of Code "on demand" thru JTAG`
`08:41.04`	`ep1220`	`the FTDI is not good at this.`
`08:41.30`	`ep1220`	`But likely FLASH prog thur JTAG chain would be faster than with wiggler`
`08:42.12`	`ka6sox`	`agreed`
`08:42.41`	`ka6sox`	`okay most people here read the logs so your price has been mentioned and people will start chiming in.`
`08:42.42`	`ep1220`	`To realy speed-up MIPS You need a FPGA`
`08:42.43`	`ka6sox`	`:)`
`08:43.27`	`ka6sox`	`our S3 boards can do that..`
`08:44.12`	`ep1220`	`but also need an adapter PCB to add JTAG header`
`08:44.34`	`ka6sox`	`yes`
`08:44.34`	`ep1220`	`the S3 could do 40-60MHz JTAG clock`
`08:44.42`	`ka6sox`	`yep`
`08:45.20`	`ep1220`	`i paid 200$ for the S3eval + USB`
`08:45.29`	`ep1220`	`this is another price range`
`08:46.09`	`ka6sox`	`ooohyeah.`
`08:46.53`	`ka6sox`	`I'm looking forward to the S3e but not until december now... :(`
`08:48.02`	`ep1220`	`the current (smallest) S3 is fast and large enough ...`
`08:48.51`	`ka6sox`	`the disadvantage with the FPGA is reprogramming it for each arch`
`08:49.18`	`ep1220`	`I have a solution were I do not need to reprogram`
`08:49.28`	`ka6sox`	`very nice`
`08:49.45`	`ka6sox`	`the 50k gate ones are big enough?`
`08:50.05`	`ka6sox`	`oops..htinking s2`
`08:52.29`	`ka6sox`	`must sleep now...back in 6hrs...`
`08:52.51`	`ep1220`	`in phone call now, see You later`
`08:52.54`	`ep1220`	`good night`
`08:55.10`	`ka6sox`	`good discussion here...very helpful`
`09:48.08`	`dyoung`	`Did I miss it all again?`
`11:04.19`	`*** join/#openjtag [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2)`
`12:27.33`	`[g2]`	`dyoung ping`
`12:27.50`	`dyoung`	`Yo G Dawg`
`12:28.01`	`[g2]`	`heh.... G Dawg ...`
`12:28.17`	`dyoung`	`Geek Dawg. :-)`
`12:28.40`	`[g2]`	`Ok so I'll probably get boards next week and JTAG is going to be a lot more important :)`
`12:28.49`	`dyoung`	`ok`
`12:29.04`	`[g2]`	`Some send me a Raven and a NIOS kit`
`12:29.14`	`[g2]`	`someone`
`12:29.15`	`dyoung`	`Me too`
`12:29.26`	`[g2]`	`a NIOS kit or Raven ?`
`12:29.31`	`dyoung`	`Ye`
`12:29.31`	`dyoung`	`s`
`12:29.48`	`[g2]`	`which one ?`
`12:29.55`	`dyoung`	`Yep!`
`12:29.57`	`dyoung`	`:-)`
`12:30.40`	`[g2]`	`You got a NIOS kit and a Raven ?`
`12:30.40`	`dyoung`	`Does the raven have a xscale capability?`
`12:30.56`	`dyoung`	`Oh, did you say "someone SEND me a...."`
`12:30.58`	`dyoung`	`<PROTECTED>`
`12:31.05`	`dyoung`	`"Someone SENT me a...." ?`
`12:31.21`	`[g2]`	`Someone sent me`
`12:31.28`	`[g2]`	`sorry`
`12:31.54`	`[g2]`	`it's the ARM version with the 20-pin JTAG connector`
`12:32.18`	`dyoung`	`oh. Bummers. I was hoping someone would SENDme the items. :-)`
`12:32.47`	`[g2]`	`that is not totally out the of realm of possibilities`
`12:33.10`	`[g2]`	`I think this person had a couple NIOS kits laying around`
`12:33.20`	`[g2]`	`but I wasn't going to be too greedy :)`
`12:33.49`	`[g2]`	`I firgure I'm a real open source developer now cause ppl are sending me free hw`
`12:33.54`	`[g2]`	`figure`
`12:34.03`	`[g2]`	`:)`
`12:34.06`	`dyoung`	`I'm a fake developer cus I dont know what I'm doing`
`12:34.25`	`[g2]`	`well you sure fool me :)`
`12:34.48`	`dyoung`	`I'm a good faker`
`12:36.14`	`[g2]`	`So the RV082 might make a nice compile box for Debian BE`
`12:36.29`	`[g2]`	`it's got a 533 and 3 real ethernet ports`
`12:36.40`	`[g2]`	`2 real + 1 into the 8-port hub`
`12:37.03`	`dyoung`	`I was advocating that for a while until lennert pointed out the swap race issue.`
`12:37.31`	`[g2]`	`swap race ?`
`12:38.00`	`[g2]`	`between the swap device and ethernet ?`
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`12:40.34`	`[g2]`	`dyoung I woundn't imagine the swap being any different than going to disk`
`12:41.06`	`[g2]`	`infact, I think the network is even faster than disk access on the slug, certainly faster than my microdrive`
`12:42.00`	`dyoung`	`it was.`
`12:42.19`	`dyoung`	`you need to ask lennert about it.`
`12:42.26`	`[g2]`	`ok thx`
`12:42.43`	`dyoung`	`he used the trick described, and ran into a case where it couldnt swap.`
`12:42.59`	`dyoung`	`somehting about a race for resources.`
`12:43.12`	`[g2]`	`ok I'll ask him`
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