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| 10:53.58 | florian_kc | good morning |
| 11:03.30 | dotmonkey | May say good evening in China:) |
| 11:05.26 | florian_kc | hehe right |
| 11:06.02 | dotmonkey | UGT? |
| 11:06.10 | koen | ~ugt |
| 11:06.19 | purl | hmm... ugt is Universial Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 11:06.19 | florian_kc | purl: UGT? |
| 11:06.20 | purl | extra, extra, read all about it, ugt is Universial Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
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| 15:39.54 | mickeyl | ~pester stefan_schmidt to submit a talk |
| 15:39.55 | purl | stefan_schmidt to submit a talk: Are we there yet? .. Are we there yet? .. Are we there yet? see http://beverlys.net/LJ/BuggingYou.swf |
| 15:41.46 | stefan_schmidt | purl: stefan_schmidt has no flash installed |
| 15:41.56 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: heh, I think about it again. |
| 15:42.22 | mickeyl | let me assure you that your english is good enough for a talk |
| 15:43.10 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: You never heard me only see me writing. :) It should be ok if I prepare me good enough. :) |
| 15:43.17 | mickeyl | heh, right |
| 15:43.32 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: What is the timeslot for a talk? 45 minutes? |
| 15:43.45 | mickeyl | yeah, pretty much |
| 15:44.17 | koen | unless mjg59 is in the room ;) |
| 15:44.23 | mickeyl | *cough* |
| 15:44.24 | stefan_schmidt | that means i could refactor me old german talk. Translate it, remove old cruft and add new one. |
| 15:44.40 | stefan_schmidt | koen: ?, who is mjg59? |
| 15:44.46 | koen | matthew garret |
| 15:44.52 | stefan_schmidt | ah, ok |
| 15:44.54 | koen | he hijacked a nokia talk last year |
| 15:44.57 | mickeyl | talk hijacker |
| 15:44.58 | mickeyl | heh |
| 15:47.02 | koen | two new linux phones |
| 15:47.10 | florian_kc | uh |
| 15:48.04 | SuN | I'm suspecting the second one is simply the A1200. |
| 15:50.52 | stefan_schmidt | ok, two new challenges. :) |
| 15:54.39 | jonwil | do we even know that the Z6 is in fact a linux EZX phone? |
| 15:54.49 | jonwil | MOTOMING is most likely the A1200 MING |
| 15:55.08 | jonwil | wait, misread the article |
| 15:55.39 | jonwil | Z6 is a linux phone |
| 15:56.25 | jonwil | if it looks even remotely good, it becomes my top wishlist choice for a new phone if I was to replace my L6 |
| 15:57.02 | jonwil | none of the current EZX phones with possible exception of E2 ROKR are phones I would want as my main phone |
| 15:57.21 | mickeyl | too bulky for ya? |
| 15:57.48 | florian_kc | hmm... the a1200 is bulky?! |
| 15:57.52 | jonwil | For one, I dont like clamshell phones |
| 15:57.54 | jonwil | period |
| 15:58.00 | jonwil | I prefer candybar phones |
| 15:58.04 | jonwil | or possibly slider phones |
| 15:58.07 | mickeyl | e680 |
| 16:05.43 | jonwil | dont like the look of e680 either, any phone I want has to be candybar or maybe slider and has to have full phone keypad and none of that touch screen stuff |
| 16:06.36 | jonwil | I heard rumor that motorola is going to drop their propriatory phone software (P2K or whatever they call it) and use linux on all their phones |
| 16:16.17 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Got me. I just wrote a talk proposal to fosdem crew. You are cc'ed. |
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| 16:33.15 | mickeyl | cool. however, you should send it to the guys @ embedded room, not to the standard guys |
| 16:33.22 | mickeyl | forward it to |
| 16:34.25 | florian_kc | bbl |
| 16:34.27 | stefan_schmidt | oh, just read the address in the faq. |
| 16:34.29 | stefan_schmidt | cu florian_kc |
| 16:36.48 | mickeyl | philippedeswert@scarlet.be |
| 16:37.06 | mickeyl | because you want to talk in the Embedded Dev Room |
| 16:37.12 | mickeyl | not in the main track :) |
| 16:38.08 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: You already forwarded it? |
| 16:38.18 | mickeyl | no no |
| 16:38.26 | mickeyl | you should do that .) |
| 16:38.27 | mickeyl | :) |
| 16:38.40 | mickeyl | that was just one sentence in a couple of lines |
| 16:38.46 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: ok |
| 16:40.22 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: done |
| 16:40.28 | mickeyl | cool *crossing fingers* |
| 16:57.56 | mickeyl | have fun |
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| 17:17.20 | SuN | Has anyone touched a real E6 yet? |
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| 18:12.57 | blkhawk | anybody watching the macworld keynote? |
| 18:15.49 | mickeyl | i guess we all do |
| 18:16.00 | mickeyl | crazy news |
| 18:16.08 | mickeyl | if it was open, it'd kick us all in the butt |
| 18:17.39 | blkhawk | ya |
| 18:17.44 | blkhawk | thats what i thought |
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| 18:20.37 | blkhawk | lo florian_ |
| 18:20.45 | blkhawk | watching the macworld coverage too? |
| 18:21.58 | file | iphone! yay |
| 18:22.42 | florian_ | re |
| 18:26.20 | blkhawk | widgets? |
| 18:33.37 | SuN | Hm... "open" does not help me make phone calls just yet :) |
| 18:41.18 | florian_ | SuN: but it gives you the chance to help fixing this issue yet ;) |
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| 18:53.16 | ao2 | hallo |
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| 19:28.27 | stefan_schmidt | re |
| 19:28.40 | stefan_schmidt | So, who starts OpenIPhone? :) |
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| 20:04.52 | proberts | hi |
| 20:07.05 | SuN | Hi |
| 20:07.11 | SuN | stefan_schmidt: I'd be afraid to... |
| 20:07.45 | SuN | "We have invented a new technology called multi-tuch. It works like magic, you don't need a stylus, far more accurate than any interface ever shipped, it ignores touches, mutli-finger gestures, and BOY have we patented it!" |
| 20:08.28 | SuN | Funny how it runs OS X. |
| 20:09.02 | SuN | It pisses me off to see how easily trivial "inventions" can be patented. |
| 20:09.38 | proberts | :P So Motorola saw our app today running on the ROKR (hacked API using dev-ezx) and the response we got from the 3rd party development guy was "this is the most amazing Java app I've ever seen" :P |
| 20:10.19 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: hhe |
| 20:10.22 | stefan_schmidt | heh, even |
| 20:10.27 | proberts | SuN: Sony does the same thing. Every time an engineer takes a dump they file for a patent. |
| 20:11.11 | SuN | Yeah :/ |
| 20:11.21 | SuN | Hm.. I wonder how well-designed the iPhone is going to be. |
| 20:11.32 | SuN | It supposedly only has one button. |
| 20:12.09 | SuN | If I consider my personal use case when calling with my E680... I lock the phone, then press answer key, talk, then press hang up key. |
| 20:12.16 | proberts | lol - in grand Mac tradition, they'll probably be 3rd party extra buttons for people who want to do serious work with it. :P |
| 20:12.29 | SuN | Only having one key sounds like cheek calling disaster to me. |
| 20:12.55 | SuN | Unless they disable the touch screen while calling. |
| 20:13.12 | SuN | BUt I see no way of enabling it in case I want to use it during a call anyway. |
| 20:13.45 | proberts | There's some proximity sensor built into it apparently that enables/disables the touch screen. |
| 20:13.53 | SuN | Nifty! |
| 20:14.00 | SuN | Now there's some fancy engineering. |
| 20:14.13 | proberts | Just don't use it if you're eating messy food :P |
| 20:14.57 | proberts | IIRC, Foxcon is the company building them for Apple, so the build quality should be good. |
| 20:16.22 | SuN | Why is it that Apple is apparently the only one that can come up with these kind of concepts? |
| 20:17.00 | proberts | It's about risk. Apple has always been willing to stick their neck out farther than most companies. |
| 20:17.19 | SuN | Is it simply because Motorola has too many people working on creating yet another razr clone? |
| 20:17.45 | SuN | Hm, I've never used a Treo.. because with every model, there always seemed to be something missing. |
| 20:17.50 | proberts | jamesmck: That's also probably a big part of it. |
| 20:18.00 | jamesmck | what amazed me about the first treo I bought |
| 20:18.08 | jamesmck | was every now and then I'd try something and it'd just work |
| 20:18.32 | proberts | We've got a 650 and 700p and I have to say I love the hardware, but the OS/Software seems really dated. |
| 20:18.32 | jamesmck | and things like asking you after a call if the unknown contact you just called should be saved, not at the begniing |
| 20:18.49 | jamesmck | it's dated as hell but it's better than anything else I've used |
| 20:18.55 | jamesmck | I'm dreading having to get a new one |
| 20:18.59 | SuN | My ideal Treo would have been my old Zire71 with a radio, not including the big antenna and perhaps some GUI updates. |
| 20:19.03 | SuN | Oh and wifi |
| 20:19.08 | jamesmck | and 3g |
| 20:19.10 | jamesmck | and .... |
| 20:19.14 | proberts | which model Treo do you have now? |
| 20:19.21 | jamesmck | I have a couple of 650s |
| 20:19.30 | jamesmck | I keep a nokia e61 in my backpack |
| 20:19.35 | jamesmck | and have the treo use it for data |
| 20:19.39 | jamesmck | via bluetooth |
| 20:19.41 | SuN | Heh nice |
| 20:19.54 | proberts | Palm just bought back PalmOS from Axim (sp?) though, so maybe the OS will get updated. |
| 20:19.59 | jamesmck | using the e61 makes me want to throw it in the river |
| 20:20.07 | SuN | I guess their little Linux adventure didn't work out. |
| 20:20.30 | jamesmck | dunno - I thought the point was to virtualize the entire OS over some other os so they didn't have to ever write drivers again |
| 20:21.01 | SuN | Yeah, and just add a 600MHz processor and a brick-sized battery pack. |
| 20:21.03 | jamesmck | and things like - if the phone crashes it automatically reboots, if it does that twice it disables all the system extensions and just goes into basic phone mode |
| 20:21.24 | SuN | Hm, the E61 _looks_ like it has potential. |
| 20:21.27 | jamesmck | what I wish is that someone would make a phone and then give it and a dozen other phones to their engineers |
| 20:21.34 | jamesmck | and make them use them |
| 20:21.40 | jamesmck | no - the e61 drives you mad |
| 20:21.46 | jamesmck | the ui is from hell |
| 20:21.54 | SuN | Typical |
| 20:22.00 | jamesmck | everyone I've ever seen goes into speaker phone rather than hangs up a call |
| 20:22.09 | jamesmck | it takes 0.7s to open a file using JSR75 |
| 20:22.21 | jamesmck | it's basically impossible to send a text message |
| 20:22.31 | jamesmck | without screwing up somewhere in the form |
| 20:22.56 | jamesmck | and it seems not to want to run any other series 60 software |
| 20:22.56 | jamesmck | like for example the nokia irc client |
| 20:23.16 | jamesmck | it's full of mad features like a VOIP over 802.11 feature which can't cope with NAT |
| 20:23.35 | jamesmck | the keyboard is horrible and the screen is only 320x240 |
| 20:23.42 | jamesmck | and it's not even a touch screen |
| 20:23.58 | jamesmck | the guy in the shop was looking at me strangely repeatedly tapping on contacts |
| 20:24.04 | jamesmck | and wondering why nothing happened :) |
| 20:24.05 | SuN | Hah |
| 20:24.15 | proberts | lol |
| 20:24.28 | jamesmck | oh and best of all |
| 20:24.31 | jamesmck | it has no copy and paste |
| 20:24.36 | SuN | Doh! |
| 20:24.38 | jamesmck | you can't dial a number on a web page |
| 20:24.46 | jamesmck | without using a peice of paper |
| 20:25.04 | SuN | http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/01/dsc_0194.jpg |
| 20:25.04 | proberts | jamesmck: Have you used one of the new Blackberry phones? |
| 20:25.15 | jamesmck | I have a perl somewhere |
| 20:25.20 | jamesmck | I've never really tried using it |
| 20:25.23 | SuN | That looks easy enough to develop, why the hell didn't Motorola come up with that? |
| 20:25.34 | jamesmck | because it doesn't have a qwerty keyboard |
| 20:25.44 | proberts | Just wondered how it compared to the Treo. I see a lot of people with the perl and I like the roller ball. |
| 20:25.45 | jamesmck | and so you can't use ssh or putty on it |
| 20:26.04 | jamesmck | which is a good 50% of what my phone does |
| 20:26.13 | jamesmck | I hear good things about them from people who just use email |
| 20:26.26 | jamesmck | obviously they're a pain to integrate cause they don't want to do imap |
| 20:26.33 | jamesmck | and they want to lock down all the applications |
| 20:26.38 | SuN | I'm longing for the day we can flash a stable GPE image to our Mots (with working BP/AP) so I can start working on my ideas. |
| 20:26.45 | jamesmck | :) |
| 20:26.47 | jamesmck | I have gpe on the treo650 |
| 20:26.53 | jamesmck | but it's a bit flakey |
| 20:26.59 | SuN | In what sense? |
| 20:27.04 | proberts | Really? So I guess I won't have Missile Command and Centipede on a Perl any time soon :( |
| 20:27.46 | jamesmck | http://www.madingley.org/treo-linux/pictures/ |
| 20:28.10 | stefan_schmidt | SuN: If you can't wait you can use 2.4 with GPE. It's stable. |
| 20:28.15 | stefan_schmidt | more or less |
| 20:28.27 | SuN | "more or less" here we go ;) |
| 20:28.31 | stefan_schmidt | At least no problem with AP/BP here. |
| 20:28.34 | proberts | Doesn't plan have some Linux-based OS they've been trying to get to work for a few years (Garnet?) |
| 20:28.41 | proberts | s/plan/Palm |
| 20:28.44 | SuN | HMM never realized that. |
| 20:28.50 | jamesmck | it's two after garnet I think |
| 20:28.52 | proberts | darnit - always forget the last / |
| 20:29.02 | SuN | So something like mkphone will work on that? |
| 20:29.35 | jamesmck | y the phone works - the touch screen is a bit jittery |
| 20:29.47 | jamesmck | I was going to adopt the project and get it all working |
| 20:29.56 | jamesmck | I fixed quite a few bugs and got the bootloader working |
| 20:30.06 | jamesmck | but then I realized I'd then have to write all the applications |
| 20:30.16 | jamesmck | to make it usable and I'd probably have something about 1/2 as good as the original treo |
| 20:30.20 | SuN | GPE might benefit from a smartphone fork or something. |
| 20:30.37 | SuN | I dunno.. embrace and extend :) |
| 20:30.51 | SuN | You wouldn't have to think about the app functionality in the beginning. |
| 20:31.02 | SuN | As soon as it's complete... just start extending. |
| 20:31.08 | jamesmck | well I would or else I'd have to carry another treo around to use |
| 20:31.13 | jamesmck | and one for linux |
| 20:31.18 | jamesmck | to play with |
| 20:31.37 | jamesmck | (which is actually what I'm doing now, but only because of the outrageous fees they charge for calling across two networks in the UK) |
| 20:31.45 | stefan_schmidt | SuN: There was a mail about mkphone on openezx-devel today. The guy who wrote it stated he uses it with gpe on his A1200 daily. |
| 20:32.12 | SuN | I read that too. |
| 20:32.18 | SuN | Hm.. it has potential. |
| 20:32.23 | jamesmck | so when I next end up in a phone store what should I buy in order that I get to try your stuff? |
| 20:32.31 | stefan_schmidt | But I'm still no sure if it is worth to extend GPE for phone stuff. It is a PDA system. |
| 20:32.38 | proberts | Yeah - that was interesting. Did he reply yet to your question about OpenMoko? |
| 20:32.58 | SuN | See, mkphone is technically a very nice app, but it's not at all how I imagine using my phone. |
| 20:33.39 | SuN | I'd have no problem developing some nice GTK app that has some form of user-friendliness, I guess. |
| 20:33.41 | SuN | Hm! |
| 20:34.10 | SuN | stefan_schmidt: what do you suggest instead? |
| 20:34.20 | proberts | That'll be the beauty of an open phone platform - everyone can customize their user experience |
| 20:34.46 | SuN | I guess you wouldn't need a lot more than kdrive + a few apps that float around. |
| 20:35.02 | stefan_schmidt | SuN: Wait for OpenMoko and take a look if it fits your needs. If not work on mkphone. |
| 20:35.07 | SuN | Maybe use matchbox as a window manager. |
| 20:35.24 | stefan_schmidt | That's what OpenMoko use. :) |
| 20:35.26 | SuN | How long! :) |
| 20:35.58 | SuN | That's one thing I'm afraid of though, doing any work and realizing OpenMoko has done exactly the same, only better because it's actually funded. |
| 20:36.02 | stefan_schmidt | They announced it for january. I think we will get mid of february. |
| 20:36.36 | proberts | UGH- MkPhone has an ugly GUI |
| 20:36.59 | SuN | I didn't want to say it out loud because I respect the work he's put into it... but it is what I was thinking. |
| 20:37.01 | stefan_schmidt | SuN: Exactly. I have great hopes in OpenMoko. Harald and mickey know what they do. |
| 20:38.22 | SuN | The screenshots look promising, and everywhere where there's room for improvement.. well.. embrace and extend :) |
| 20:38.42 | proberts | SuN: Where did you find OpenMoko screenshots? |
| 20:38.54 | SuN | http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html |
| 20:39.04 | proberts | thanks |
| 20:39.06 | SuN | With the risk that they're nothing like the end result, but anyway... :P |
| 20:39.23 | SuN | I think Apple has a point with their finger-controlled ui. |
| 20:39.32 | proberts | That looks nice. How skinnable is the OpenMoko UI? |
| 20:39.52 | SuN | I imagine it just feeds off a dir of png's, but I don't know the technical details :) |
| 20:40.19 | stefan_schmidt | The prototype I've seen looks pretty much the same. |
| 20:40.53 | proberts | I wonder how long it'll be before multi-touch screens make their way to cellphones |
| 20:41.10 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: They will care about skins. |
| 20:41.51 | stefan_schmidt | Anyway i guess they will ship the first series of phones with a roughly working software. Dialer, etc. And offer firmware updates afterwards. |
| 20:42.40 | webmind | proberts, iPhone has it |
| 20:42.49 | webmind | so that would be today :) |
| 20:42.55 | proberts | Really? Cool! |
| 20:43.27 | webmind | I guess it wouldn't have been a apple product it hadn't |
| 20:45.14 | proberts | AFAIK, that's the first commercial mass-market product with multi-touch? Did Apple put out a multi-touch device before? |
| 20:46.42 | webmind | I think so |
| 20:46.49 | webmind | I don't think they have |
| 20:47.01 | proberts | Oh god.. I just love it when CEOs explain software: "...simple, game-like interface, is written in fast C based native language..." |
| 20:55.12 | proberts | stafan_schmidt: Did you have one of the Nokia Linux tablets? |
| 20:55.29 | proberts | s/stafan/stefan/ |
| 20:55.39 | proberts | :P Remembered that time |
| 20:57.54 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: Yes, I have a N770. Just a month old and now they announce N800. aargh. :) |
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| 21:06.05 | proberts | stefan_schmidt: Do you know anything about a virus someone released targeting it? |
| 21:07.19 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: No idea |
| 21:10.38 | proberts | I heard a rumor (and take it at that, as it came from someone non-technical and third-party) that Motorola is a little freaked out by some virus that just appeared for the N770 and it trying to figure out what to do about immunizing their handsets, including possibly suspending any Linux development until they solve the issue. |
| 21:12.07 | stefan_schmidt | wow, even if there where somekind of virus. What will they do? Use symbian or wince? lol |
| 21:12.22 | proberts | Nothing comes up in Google though about a 770 virus though. |
| 21:12.46 | proberts | :P More likely just go back to P2K |
| 21:12.55 | stefan_schmidt | ah, right |
| 21:13.28 | stefan_schmidt | If I hear something I'll inform you. |
| 21:13.30 | proberts | Doesn't the A1200 have software signing? |
| 21:14.08 | stefan_schmidt | There were rumors about it, but I never seen a proof. |
| 21:14.37 | proberts | Maybe like the selinux it's there but disabled |
| 21:16.04 | stefan_schmidt | Perhaps it's like the boot_usb problem we had. It don't worked on the first try and we guessed about security stuff. But it was only changes load address and some small usb changes. |
| 21:17.05 | proberts | congrats BTW on all the progress :) |
| 21:17.10 | [g2] | stefan_schmidt what's the latest ? |
| 21:18.33 | stefan_schmidt | [g2]: boot_usb working with E2 and A1200, selfcompiled 2.4 booted on E2 and A1200 and first 2.6 booted on E2. :) |
| 21:18.51 | [g2] | proberts Jobs is still stuck back in the late 80's / early 90's when there was a peformance difference between C / C++ |
| 21:19.16 | [g2] | stefan_schmidt thx, how's that A780 ? |
| 21:20.47 | stefan_schmidt | [g2]: We have a fairly good understanding about the AP/BP communication. On the way to fix the issue. |
| 21:21.10 | [g2] | awesome! |
| 21:21.25 | proberts | stefan_schmidt: Did you see the stuff about the Samsung Mizi Linux phones BTW? |
| 21:22.04 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: I've seen the links, but not looked at it to much. |
| 21:23.14 | stefan_schmidt | hmm, perhaps I should take a look at all the linux phones available and blog my whishlist. :) |
| 21:23.20 | proberts | The phones aren't that exciting (US$800+), but I poked through the source on the Mizi FTP server. They're using 2.6, and have an interesting platform emulator that I played with a little. |
| 21:23.58 | stefan_schmidt | sounds indeed interesting |
| 21:24.40 | proberts | (it's also iwmmx gcc with soft-fp like EZX) |
| 21:26.14 | stefan_schmidt | Do they even use a separate BP cpu? |
| 21:28.21 | proberts | I think so - they have a Qualcomm MSM6300 and a Xscale. |
| 21:28.36 | proberts | http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6583352606.html <-- hardware diagram |
| 21:28.42 | stefan_schmidt | thx |
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| 21:31.26 | stefan_schmidt | ok, more or less 'standard' linux smartphone setup. :) |
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| 21:34.59 | proberts | Oh - how do you uninstall an app under EZX? |
| 21:35.40 | proberts | Mizi also has remote debugging, which is nice. |
| 21:37.39 | stefan_schmidt | There is some kind of stupid app manager in the app menu. At least on A780. |
| 21:39.26 | proberts | thanks - I'll have to dig for it on the E2... |
| 21:41.41 | stefan_schmidt | right |
| 21:42.13 | stefan_schmidt | once it runs stable we will attack other drivers |
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| 23:30.01 | proberts | Ugh! No MPKG installer on the RORK E2 v43P |
