| 00:01.17 | alphaone | grmpf |
| 00:03.08 | alphaone | And that is no fun |
| 00:06.48 | alphaone | dion: Did you check just sending USBSTAT to the phone? |
| 00:07.30 | dion | sorry no.. will check after 20 mins.. i can't flash it because i think that i will be unable to flash it back. should charge batterry |
| 00:07.55 | alphaone | okay |
| 00:08.02 | alphaone | no problem, just checking |
| 00:08.04 | alphaone | :-) |
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| 02:06.15 | alphaone | good night everyone |
| 02:07.05 | alphaone | and good luck dion trying out USBSTAT ;-) |
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| 05:27.51 | *** join/#openezx jonwil (n=jonwil@220-245-202-116-wa-pppoe.tpgi.com.au) |
| 05:29.56 | jonwil | hi |
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| 08:17.35 | *** join/#openezx netrunner (n=andreas@anvame.net) |
| 08:17.36 | netrunner | hi * |
| 08:17.37 | netrunner | I understood that using openezx currently renders me unable to make phone calls, right? |
| 08:17.37 | netrunner | is it possible to play with openezx without overwriting the vendor-firmware? |
| 08:27.24 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:32.06 | *** join/#openezx dion (n=dion@xen.inhex.net) |
| 08:39.29 | alphaone | netrunner: We are currently working on 2.6 kernel support. You could use boot_usb to play with openezx but then the BP is in flash mode and you won't be able to speak to it. |
| 08:41.14 | jonwil | presumably if the 2.6 USB issue was fixed you could overwrite the stock 2.4 kernel and still use the moto userland (tapisrv etc) |
| 08:41.31 | jonwil | I have no idea if that would work though |
| 08:45.19 | alphaone | So let's fix the issue and find out :-) |
| 09:03.38 | netrunner | it will work if the interfaces that the proprietary programs talk to stay the same. |
| 09:04.48 | netrunner | does it matter which of the phones I use? I thought the a1200 looks neat ... |
| 09:11.00 | dion | hiall |
| 09:11.32 | dion | alphaone: will flash my phone now |
| 10:42.24 | alphaone | dion: cool |
| 10:42.24 | dion | alphaone: i comment all commands in opentapi, except +USBSTAT, change INIT_STATES=MAX_STATES=1. am i right? |
| 10:42.25 | alphaone | That should be right |
| 10:42.25 | alphaone | Yeah |
| 10:42.26 | dion | ok.. will flash phone now |
| 10:47.23 | alphaone | great |
| 10:47.23 | alphaone | Do you have your tapisrv logs online somewhere? |
| 10:47.24 | alphaone | I'd like to post a link to them to the ML |
| 10:47.42 | alphaone | Or you could post to the ML |
| 10:49.08 | stefan_schmidt | morning |
| 10:49.18 | jonwil | hi |
| 10:49.19 | dion | alphaone: brb.. yeah, all logs are online. but possible people.openezx.org is better place.. I can't upload them here, because i have no account |
| 10:49.19 | dion | btw phone is flashed.. |
| 10:49.22 | stefan_schmidt | dion: You like an account? |
| 10:49.25 | dion | stefan_schmidt: i think that yes for sharing openezx-relative stuff |
| 10:49.26 | stefan_schmidt | dion: OK, just send me your SSH2 key and the username for your account. |
| 10:49.26 | dion | stefan_schmidt: ok |
| 10:49.27 | dion | alphaone: looks like i flashed incorrect opentapi. |
| 10:49.40 | alphaone | dion: Incorrect how? It still sends all the commands? |
| 10:49.40 | dion | yeah |
| 10:51.19 | dion | i tried to reboot phone |
| 10:51.20 | alphaone | hmm |
| 10:51.20 | dion | alphaone: oops this was my mistake.. looks like it works |
| 10:51.21 | dion | it sent only one command |
| 10:51.21 | alphaone | opentapi always appends things to the log |
| 10:51.21 | alphaone | Doesn't overwrite |
| 10:51.22 | dion | yeah.. i just remove log |
| 10:51.22 | alphaone | Cool, now we have to see if it stays alive |
| 10:51.23 | alphaone | And I would bet a Club Mate at the 23c3 that it will :-) |
| 10:51.24 | dion | looks like stays |
| 10:51.25 | dion | uptime is 3 min |
| 10:51.26 | alphaone | Hah, now stefan_schmidt owes me another one! :-) |
| 10:51.26 | alphaone | cool |
| 10:51.26 | dion | http://pastebin.ca/283407 |
| 10:51.29 | jonwil | so now we know the secret to getting an EZX phone to stay alive |
| 10:51.29 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: What? I should never bet with you again. :) |
| 10:51.29 | jonwil | we just need to send AT+USBSTAT=255,1 to BP mux4 |
| 10:51.30 | jonwil | and it will stay alove |
| 10:51.30 | jonwil | alive |
| 10:51.31 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: It'S only usbstat? |
| 10:51.31 | stefan_schmidt | Great work guys. :) |
| 10:51.31 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: Yes |
| 10:51.31 | alphaone | Cool thing |
| 10:51.31 | alphaone | I wonder if weird things happen when you send different USBSTAT commands to /dev/mux4 |
| 10:51.32 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: You can get the phone again today. |
| 10:51.32 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: :) |
| 10:51.32 | alphaone | :-) |
| 10:51.32 | alphaone | Yay |
| 10:51.50 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 10:51.50 | alphaone | But the ML seems to be quite slow |
| 10:52.51 | stefan_schmidt | yeah |
| 10:53.44 | *** join/#openezx ao2 (n=u@2001:1418:117:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 10:53.44 | dion | will back after 20 mins |
| 10:53.51 | *** join/#openezx proberts (n=proberts@cpe-76-167-78-52.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 10:53.51 | proberts | stefan_schmid, alphaone, dion: Any of you guys around? |
| 10:53.51 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: Yes, but you should stay longer then one minute for a reply. :) |
| 10:53.51 | mickeyl | heh |
| 10:53.51 | mickeyl | morning guys |
| 10:53.52 | mickeyl | kudos to your hacking weekends |
| 10:53.52 | mickeyl | i wish we had that a couple of months earlier ;) |
| 10:53.52 | mickeyl | you know... when i had more time :) |
| 10:53.52 | stefan_schmidt | wb mickeyl |
| 10:53.52 | stefan_schmidt | You will get some time again in the future. |
| 10:53.52 | stefan_schmidt | Let us prepare OpenEZX for OpenMoko until that date. :) |
| 10:53.53 | mickeyl | sure thing |
| 10:53.53 | mickeyl | the more kernel stuff has been finished, the easier will it be |
| 10:53.54 | stefan_schmidt | That's our hope. |
| 10:53.55 | netrunner | you all use the a780 or e680 for experimenting? |
| 10:53.55 | dion | mickeyl: hi |
| 10:53.56 | mickeyl | yo dion |
| 10:53.56 | stefan_schmidt | netrunner: Yes, most development is done on E680/A780 atm. But there are also guys working on E2 which is pretty similar to A1200. |
| 10:57.11 | ao2 | mickeyl, has openmoko been tested with linux-2.4 ever? Sure that openezx is about linux-2.6, but we have a somehow working free 2.4 setup already. |
| 10:58.25 | mickeyl | ao2, depends on which parts of OpenMoko you mean. the gsm library has been developed on 2.6. You'd have to ask LaF0rge how compatible that is to existing 2.4 interfaces. The OpenMoko application framework doesn't care about a kernel, just about base software |
| 11:00.27 | ao2 | ah, thanks. |
| 11:04.24 | dion | mickeyl: where i can read about openmoko? what else except gsm lib it have? some GUI? |
| 11:04.43 | mickeyl | dion: openmoko.com, there's a press release and a presentation |
| 11:04.57 | mickeyl | mailing list archives on lists.openmoko.org |
| 11:05.53 | dion | thx.. will read this too.. LOL.. So many things to read and almost no free time |
| 11:19.18 | stefan_schmidt | dion: Welcome in the no-spare-time-club. ;) |
| 11:19.44 | dion | stefan_schmidt: yeah :) |
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| 11:35.36 | stefan_schmidt | hi kenws |
| 12:06.00 | dion | http://wiki.openezx.org/AT_commands looks good. now we need to improve opentapi and try to find what all of them means |
| 12:07.31 | stefan_schmidt | yes |
| 12:08.42 | dion | something like make opentapi daemon and listen some socket.. and write simple client.. |
| 12:09.39 | stefan_schmidt | dion: Yes. I guess alphaone plans something similar. |
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| 12:44.54 | *** join/#openezx florian_kc (n=fuchs@dns.kernelconcepts.de) |
| 12:47.18 | florian_kc | hi all |
| 12:49.07 | dion | florian_kc: |
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| 13:18.35 | stefan_schmidt | hi florian_kc |
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| 13:42.22 | jonwil | I think that AT+C is standard commands generally |
| 13:42.27 | jonwil | AT+E is probobly EZX specific |
| 13:42.32 | jonwil | and AT+M is motorola specific |
| 13:44.35 | jonwil | although there are a lot of AT+C commands in the tapisrv stuff that dont seem to show up on google or in the GSM docs at www.3gpp.org |
| 13:45.45 | stefan_schmidt | jonwil: Yes, it seems Moto use many own extensions with AT+C prefix, ugly. |
| 13:46.24 | jonwil | looks like most of commands ezx bp use is special commands |
| 13:46.33 | jonwil | since most of functions AP needs to trigger on BP are special |
| 13:47.07 | dion | anybody know about nfs locks here? |
| 13:49.38 | jonwil | someone should collect a link to all known documents and info on AT commands |
| 13:49.46 | jonwil | or at least all relavent ones |
| 13:49.54 | jonwil | so far all I know of are the GSM documents |
| 13:49.59 | jonwil | and that one someone else linked to on the ml |
| 13:53.05 | stefan_schmidt | jonwil: Add the 3gpp documents links to the wiki would be good. |
| 13:53.15 | jonwil | I dont have links handy |
| 13:53.20 | jonwil | I just know that they are on www.3gpp.org |
| 13:56.59 | stefan_schmidt | http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/ |
| 13:57.08 | stefan_schmidt | I'll add them later. |
| 13:57.08 | jonwil | thats a lot of specs |
| 13:57.25 | stefan_schmidt | GSM 07.07 is the most interesting. |
| 13:57.46 | stefan_schmidt | And of course the matching ?G version of it. 27.07 |
| 13:57.56 | stefan_schmidt | jonwil: There is much information |
| 13:58.25 | stefan_schmidt | There should be enough. And gsmlib and gsmd is comming with openmoko. |
| 13:58.46 | jonwil | true but the lowest level parts will remain closed off |
| 13:58.54 | jonwil | they have to be in order to remain legal |
| 13:59.18 | jonwil | for example anything that can listen on GSM frequencies and capture data not intended for that handset is illegal I believe |
| 13:59.42 | stefan_schmidt | ah, ok. That you mean. Right, this is closed. |
| 14:03.57 | jonwil | the good thing about openmoko is that it is as open as it is legally possible to get |
| 14:05.30 | stefan_schmidt | right |
| 14:05.40 | stefan_schmidt | I added some links: http://wiki.openezx.org/AT_commands |
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| 18:10.26 | proberts | hi |
| 18:13.27 | nh_work | proberts: heya |
| 18:13.32 | nh_work | how goes it? |
| 18:13.56 | proberts | nh_work: Good. I can screw around with the clocks and voltage more than I probably should be able to ;P |
| 18:14.02 | nh_work | lol |
| 18:14.25 | nh_work | Are you going to overclock the phone for your game? ;) |
| 18:14.26 | proberts | I can also reset the bp in software... maybe that'll be useful |
| 18:15.31 | proberts | No, but the fill rate kept changing, and I found the apm was throttling down the E2 while my app was running, so I needed a way to set the system to max performance and then temp disable any changes. |
| 18:19.17 | proberts | BTW- you can set the voltage to 0x00 :P |
| 18:25.03 | proberts | nh_work: Our kernel has nfs built into it, but when I try to mount any of the exports on my host PC, the mount command hangs. Do you know where of if nfsd writes logs? |
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| 18:29.25 | dion | proberts: try to add -o nolock to mount |
| 18:29.41 | dion | or probably you should start portmap |
| 18:29.53 | proberts | dion: thanks |
| 18:30.04 | nh_work | proberts: let me know if you get it working, that would be extremely useful |
| 18:30.54 | dion | i have success with rootfs NFS.. Probably will fill wiki with info how to get debian/arm.. |
| 18:36.22 | proberts | what is "fota" mode? |
| 18:46.32 | proberts | HEY! I found what the "logger.o" module is for! If you insmod it, then run "/usr/SYStapi/aplog_mode.sh 1" you get mux (by default, others in /ezxlocal/ezx_aplog.cfg) logging output in /ezxlocal/download/mystuff (as logged.map and logging.map) |
| 18:54.14 | dion | proberts: sounds good.. need to test. |
| 18:56.19 | proberts | dion: Now that I can make the stock moto system reboot after bp reset, can you think of any tests to try? I tried this w/o any luck (reset still happened): kill tapisrv, modemlauncher -> reset_bp -> restart with rcd.2 tapisrv script |
| 18:57.20 | dion | i have no idea.. try opentapi after restart and let's see logs |
| 19:20.00 | ao2 | proberts, how to reset bp? and does reset turn it to "normal mode" instead of "flash mode" ? |
| 19:21.49 | proberts | ao2: There's a hook in the apm_bios device to reset the bp with an ioctl. I'm not sure what kind of a reset it does, but here's the code it executes: GPCR(GPIO_BB_RESET) = GPIO_bit(GPIO_BB_RESET); mdelay(1); GPSR(GPIO_BB_RESET) = GPIO_bit(GPIO_BB_RESET); |
| 19:22.21 | ao2 | nice, I'll se if that help wit kernel booted via usb |
| 19:22.39 | ao2 | s/wit/with/ |
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| 19:43.57 | mickeyl | ao2: good luck. being able to (re)launch the BP from usb-boot would be a tremendous help in gathering developers |
| 19:44.08 | mickeyl | IMO |
| 19:44.57 | ao2 | yes, that would be just great, we can use the phone as a phone without touching the internal flash. Let's hope. |
| 19:45.03 | mickeyl | righto |
| 19:45.09 | ao2 | s/can/could/ :) |
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| 22:20.40 | ao2 | proberts, starting from your idea: http://people.openezx.org/ao2/bp_command/ |
| 22:22.03 | ao2 | we can enter passthrough mode from userspace, we can enter reflash mode too, but I wasn't able to put bp in normal mode, yet |
| 22:25.18 | proberts_ | ao2: Is this on your own OS build, or a Moto EZX? |
| 22:26.06 | ao2 | my own build of 2.4 motorola kernel |
| 22:26.36 | proberts_ | Cool. I had to hijack the device with a kernel module under EZX because it only allowed 1 open instance. |
| 22:28.41 | ao2 | I had to create /dev/apm_bios (I'm using original moto system but duplicated on external flash, so to have a writeable rootfs) |
| 22:29.16 | proberts_ | ao2: Is it the AP watchdog timer that times out and resets? |
| 22:30.03 | proberts_ | BTW- when you're digging through the source and find a way to disable CPU throttling, let me know :P |
| 22:31.35 | proberts_ | ao2: There's also a ioctl wrapper called something like "PM_ignoreBpMsg" in libezxpm.so |
| 22:31.40 | proberts_ | (btw) |
| 22:31.46 | proberts_ | ...don't know if that helps at all |
| 22:33.51 | ao2 | I'll take a look, but I'm not very expert about kernel stuff |
| 22:40.07 | ao2 | stefan_schmidt, can I move the 'Kernel hacking' page of the wiki to 'Kernel hacking with linux-2.6' and start a new page about linux-2.4? |
| 22:47.59 | stefan_schmidt | ao2: It's fine with me. Anyway I think it would be fair to note |
| 22:48.28 | stefan_schmidt | ...that we do the 2.4 work just for getting a working 2.6 |
| 22:49.45 | ao2 | I read that as a warning _to_me_ :) And I'll put that on the 2.4 page as well |
| 22:49.54 | stefan_schmidt | ao2: BTW, nice ioctl handler. |
| 22:50.38 | stefan_schmidt | ao2: Not a big warning. :) But you also keep in mind that 2.6 should be the future. |
| 22:51.21 | stefan_schmidt | ao2: If you like to maintain a 2.4 tree for for EZX, you can of course do it. |
| 22:53.07 | ao2 | I don't think I'll do that. 2.6 is far more better and it deserves all the efforts on it, as you said. |
| 22:53.11 | alphaone | That's the fun thing about OSS |
| 22:53.14 | stefan_schmidt | ao2: What happen if you use the ioctl handler for passthrough mode? Does the phone reboot itself? |
| 22:54.01 | ao2 | yes, stefan_schmidt it reboot and goes to first step of passthrough |
| 22:54.11 | stefan_schmidt | ao2: Good to hear. I really like to see somebody work with 2.4, but only for discovering all the secrets in it. :) |
| 22:54.53 | stefan_schmidt | ao2: But it only enter the passthrough if you hold down the power button until it has reached step 1, right? |
| 22:55.17 | ao2 | right, as ususal |
| 22:55.22 | stefan_schmidt | ao2: ok |
| 22:56.06 | stefan_schmidt | ao2: It would be great if you would find a way to change from flash mode to normal mode. Really usefull for people don't like to flash the kernel. |
| 22:56.22 | ao2 | alphaone, many funny things in OSS, which are you referring to in particular? |
| 22:56.56 | stefan_schmidt | ao2: I think he refer to have the choice of using 2.4 or 2.6 |
| 22:57.18 | stefan_schmidt | ao2: alphaone is slow on writing right now, as he uses xchat on our new N770. :) |
| 22:57.35 | alphaone | ao2: Have you tried resetting bp and holding down power to see if it completes the handshake again? |
| 22:57.56 | ao2 | stefan_schmidt, I would not bet on myself on solving the bp problem, but who knows, provvidence is everywhere :) |
| 22:57.57 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: Exactly |
| 22:58.51 | ao2 | alphaone, I'll try to keep power putton pressed |
| 22:59.01 | alphaone | okay |
| 22:59.11 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: You get faster. :) |
| 22:59.31 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: I switched using my notebook again |
| 22:59.33 | ao2 | he prepared the answer before... :) |
| 22:59.39 | stefan_schmidt | ao2: heh |
| 23:00.02 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: Hey, you can't stop using the N770. It's to new. ;) |
| 23:00.03 | proberts_ | How do you guys like the N770? |
| 23:00.17 | stefan_schmidt | proberts_: The display is great. |
| 23:00.45 | alphaone | proberts: Really cool |
| 23:00.48 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: solid design |
| 23:00.59 | ao2 | see you tomorrow |
| 23:01.02 | ao2 | bye |
| 23:01.12 | alphaone | okay, back to the n770 |
| 23:01.20 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: It only needs two buttons on the right side for better supertux playing experience. :) |
| 23:01.27 | stefan_schmidt | bye ao2 |
| 23:01.34 | alphaone | Tpe real slow everyone :-) |
| 23:01.41 | alphaone | Ye |
| 23:01.46 | proberts_ | It looks really cool, but I think the infighting that lead to no telephony was a big mistake. |
| 23:02.09 | stefan_schmidt | proberts_: It to big for telephony in my opinion. |
| 23:02.46 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: Of course internet tablet is a smaller market, but it fits better. |
| 23:02.59 | *** join/#openezx nh_home (n=nh@aurora.msi.umn.edu) |
| 23:03.01 | alphaone | proberts: It's no such a big drawback as long as you have WLAN |
| 23:03.05 | stefan_schmidt | hi nh_home |
| 23:03.14 | nh_home | hi stefan_schmidt |
| 23:03.33 | proberts_ | sorry - meant telephony stuff like 3G modem for EDGE, so you could drop in a SIM and drag it anywhere. |
| 23:03.54 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: Ah, ok. That would be indeed neat. :) |
| 23:03.55 | proberts_ | I do like Nokia stuff though :) |
| 23:04.53 | alphaone | Does the N770 have USB host? |
| 23:05.06 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: Yes, but powerless. |
| 23:05.16 | alphaone | Great! |
| 23:05.23 | proberts_ | stefan_schmidt: What do you not like about Nokia phones? |
| 23:05.51 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: That they use symbian. :) |
| 23:06.01 | nh_home | proberts: I find them ugly too. ;) |
| 23:06.28 | proberts_ | Stefan/nh_home: Don't like S40, S60, or both? |
| 23:06.36 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: The hardware choices are not that bad, but symbian is the killer for me. |
| 23:06.50 | proberts_ | hmm... guess S60 is actually the only Symbian OS |
| 23:07.00 | alphaone | I din't really care for one phone or the other |
| 23:07.08 | proberts_ | Do you like Moto's EZX better than S60? |
| 23:07.29 | nh_home | proberts: actually, the thing that I don't really like about S60 is the new restrictions they've placed on the s60 v3 devices. |
| 23:07.35 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: My brother has a S60. The thrid one in the last 5 months. :) |
| 23:07.55 | alphaone | I just really dislike my Sony Ericsson |
| 23:08.46 | proberts_ | Which phone's OSes do you guys like best? |
| 23:08.52 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: EZX is not really good, but I like the integration between contacts, dates and GPS. |
| 23:08.53 | proberts_ | (OpenEZX excluded ;P ) |
| 23:09.29 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: For just phone I like the old siemens ones. S35 for example. |
| 23:09.30 | nh_home | proberts: I haven't used enough to be well informed. There are things about moto EZX that I like better than my old SE phone, but things I like less too. |
| 23:09.33 | alphaone | Openmoko :-P |
| 23:09.54 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: Just working. The badness starts with S55 for me. |
| 23:10.09 | nh_home | proberts: the S60 v1 interface on my wife's 3650 feels clunky, but the newer S60 devices might be nicer. |
| 23:10.43 | proberts_ | I like my 6680 (S60 v2 FP3?) much better than EZX or P2K, but there's not really a phone I've used that I thought "wow -what a great OS" |
| 23:12.32 | nh_home | proberts_: a lot of people seem to really like newer SE phones like the w810 or k800. |
| 23:12.38 | proberts_ | S60 seem really clunky though. |
| 23:12.57 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: Mostly there are just some small changes needed to let the things work together smoothly. I really hope openmoko will give me the possibility to do the fixes. |
| 23:13.31 | proberts_ | It will be nice to have an open OS for the AP side of things. |
| 23:13.51 | nh_home | definitely. I think we have a chance at making one of the nicest phone OSes around. |
| 23:14.31 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: Yes, for BP I can life with a company hearing what I tell them and fix it themselves. |
| 23:15.30 | stefan_schmidt | nh_home: Right, it is a big chance. If we do the things right and show the possibilities other hardware vendors will jump in. |
| 23:16.03 | nh_home | stefan: Is the gui all gtk? |
| 23:17.05 | proberts_ | It'll be a good op for smaller hardware makers. Unfortunately, I don't think it'll be that useful in the US. The carriers are all about control, not about customer service. |
| 23:17.22 | stefan_schmidt | nh_home: Yes, they use GTK mostly, but write a lot widgets and framework stuff on their own. The problem is that all desktop ideas doesn't fit well with a cellphone handling. |
| 23:17.46 | proberts_ | Or should I say, it'll be useful for customers in the US, since they can possibly get rid of the restricted crap the carrier puts on. |
| 23:17.51 | nh_home | stefan_schmidt: yeah. GTK is somewhat annoying. |
| 23:18.38 | proberts_ | but not useful for hardware vendors. |
| 23:18.38 | nh_home | proberts_: I'm hoping actually that nokia might jump on board if openmoko work well. |
| 23:19.01 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: I'm not a business guy, but perhaps even some of the US vendors change their mind with enough pressure. |
| 23:19.02 | proberts_ | nh_home: Don't Nokia own the major share of Symbian? |
| 23:19.36 | stefan_schmidt | nh_home: It rumors that Nokia already to linux tests with some phones in their labs. |
| 23:19.57 | nh_home | proberts_: I know they own some, but I'm not sure how much. They've occasionally made vague statements about linux on the cellphone though. Supposedly they had linux running on early S60 devices at one point in labs. |
| 23:20.44 | proberts_ | stefan_schmit: I don't think so even if you held a gun to their head. We (consumers) finally won a lawsuit that allows us to legally unlock our phones after a contract expires. It also took legal action to get the carriers to allow number portability. |
| 23:21.09 | nh_home | proberts_: I don't think S60 can reasonably compete with (open) linux on the cellphone though. Linux has way to large of a software/development advantage. |
| 23:21.11 | proberts_ | stefan_schmidt: The carriers are fighting the unlock decision. |
| 23:21.13 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: wow, that's sad. |
| 23:21.33 | proberts_ | stefan_schmidt: Yeah- the major carriers here all suck |
| 23:22.07 | nh_home | proberts_: I'm hoping voip is going to scare one of them enough to betray the others. |
| 23:22.35 | nh_home | I imagine the idea of being able to use a wifi/gsm phone terrifies them. |
| 23:22.46 | proberts_ | stefan_schmidt: The #1 GSM carrier purchased the #2 GSM carrier a couple years ago and are now being sued because they intentionally degraded the signal quality for all of the purchased accounts and told customers they needed a new contract and phone to get better service. |
| 23:23.18 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: ouch |
| 23:24.17 | proberts_ | nh_home: same here. Home voip is *almost* there... We tested a trixbox setup at the office on a spare old laptop. That should have them crapping in their pants. Their largest profit center is commercial PBX... and Trixbox is free. |
| 23:24.24 | stefan_schmidt | nh_home: Yes, GSM/Wifi phones can become a problem for the carrier. It's hard if skype and google working against you. ;) |
| 23:24.52 | file | moo |
| 23:25.17 | stefan_schmidt | file: apt-get moo |
| 23:25.28 | proberts_ | btw- Trixbox is fantastic... if any of you guys ever find yourself bored and want a home PBX system. |
| 23:25.32 | file | eep |
| 23:26.10 | stefan_schmidt | bored, hmm, bored, hmm. What mean bored again? ;) |
| 23:26.22 | file | or install vanilla Asterisk |
| 23:26.26 | file | if you are REALLY bored |
| 23:26.37 | nh_home | proberts_: Here in minneapolis, they are working on installing a citi-wide wireless service for like $20-$30 per month. |
| 23:27.30 | nh_home | proberts: a wifi phone theoretically could work anywhere in the city without needing a GSM carrier. |
| 23:27.30 | proberts_ | stefan_schmidt: When you don't feel like working, are bored of all your Wii/PS3 games, and have watched all the porn available on your P2P :P |
| 23:27.30 | stefan_schmidt | Is trixbox based on asterisk? |
| 23:27.30 | proberts_ | nh_home: Nice. |
| 23:27.55 | proberts_ | (trixbox is a full linux install that sets up a dedicated Asterisk server with CentOS) |
| 23:27.56 | file | Trixbox is Asterisk |
| 23:28.09 | file | and FreePBX in there too |
| 23:28.19 | alphaone | Hmm, that sounds nice |
| 23:28.20 | stefan_schmidt | proberts: No Wii/PS3 and no P2P, just work. But FOSS is fun. |
| 23:28.41 | stefan_schmidt | ah, ok. |
| 23:29.07 | stefan_schmidt | s/FOSS/FOOS work/ |
| 23:29.11 | stefan_schmidt | aargh |
| 23:29.20 | stefan_schmidt | s/FOOS work/FOSS work/ |
| 23:29.22 | proberts_ | They've done a nice job with Trixbox... just pop in the Trixbox disc, it formats and installs headless CentOS, Asterisk, CMS, and a bunch of other cool servers and Asterisk plug-ins. |
| 23:30.19 | proberts_ | There's a cool asterisk plug-in that tracks your phone's bluetooth signature and can figure out where you are and which phone to ring. |
| 23:30.50 | alphaone | .. if he ever happens to be bored again :-) |
| 23:31.05 | proberts_ | nh_home: Are you using voip at home? |
| 23:36.51 | nh_home | proberts_: nope, I just use cell phone at home. :) |
| 23:37.11 | nh_home | proberts_: But I probably would start if my cellphone could do voip over wifi. |
| 23:37.18 | proberts_ | nh_home: BTW- if you run (crap...can't remember the script name, but I added it to Stefan's wiki under E2 "interesting files") you get all the shell env vars necessary to run phone aps. |
| 23:37.43 | nh_home | nice |
| 23:37.46 | proberts_ | nh_home: I have a friend with that setup. He's got a Nokoa E### that has a SIP client built in. |
| 23:38.02 | nh_home | yeah, I almost got one of those. |
| 23:38.25 | nh_home | I ended up deciding that S60 was too restrictive so I went for the E2, which is how I ended up here. ;) |
| 23:40.33 | proberts_ | nh_home: Symbian is actally pretty open. The S60 APIs are free to download from Nokia, and there' |
| 23:40.39 | proberts_ | s a big dev community. |
| 23:41.07 | nh_home | proberts_: The whole digitally-signed apps S60 v3 thing turned me off. |
| 23:41.22 | nh_home | proberts_: I wonder if they ended up changing that. |
| 23:41.52 | proberts_ | Ah - ok. We haven't done any v3 stuff yet. Hmmm... looks like a fight between developers and carriers like Microsoft had. |
| 23:43.08 | stefan_schmidt | wb dion |
| 23:43.28 | nh_home | proberts_: I think the only way to sufficiently get around that is to force the carrier's hand. |
| 23:43.30 | dion | thnx |
| 23:44.11 | dion | s/doint/doing/ |
| 23:44.30 | stefan_schmidt | heh, nice |
| 23:44.38 | proberts_ | nh_home: Well, Sprint customers did end up threatening Sprint with a class action suit, and they're the most open carrier now. |
| 23:45.07 | nh_home | proberts_: really? I knew they used to be bad. I hadn't heard they changed their tune. |
| 23:45.08 | proberts_ | nh_home: So maybe it'll be customers forcing the carriers' hands that do it. |
| 23:45.42 | nh_home | hopefully. I think a well-polished open linux phone could be huge though. |
| 23:45.56 | dion | finally i get debian working over nfs. next step will be setup ntpd because currently we can't read hardware clock |
| 23:46.17 | nh_home | dion: nice! |
| 23:47.01 | proberts_ | For external network access, Sprint is almost unrestricted. (Verizon is the worst...) |
| 23:48.26 | proberts_ | Users went after Sprint because they released a "MS Smartphone" so lock you couldn't run Smartphone apps on it, so "false advertising" (Sprint wanted developers to spend something like $5k per app for a custom certificate and Sprint wanted to charge thier customers more than Handango for the special version) |
| 23:48.46 | nh_home | wow |
| 23:49.35 | proberts_ | sort of the same thing that killed the Zaurus (Sharp Linux-based PDA) in the US |
| 23:52.56 | dion | stefan_schmidt: what about muc_cli? there is patch in patches/incomplete but i never tried it. and looks like there is no wiki page about it |