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| 08:09.56 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 09:22.14 | ade|desk | howdy folks |
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| 11:16.15 | stefan_schmidt | hi all |
| 11:16.20 | Hopscotch | moin |
| 11:19.56 | florian_kc | hi all |
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| 15:56.40 | koen | does it mention qtopia being evil and proprietary? |
| 15:57.30 | koen | or http://lists.trolltech.com/qtopia-interest/2006-11/msg00000.html#msg00000 ? |
| 15:58.03 | lkcl | he he o allo koen where do i remember you from? |
| 15:58.11 | lkcl | not yet - i haven't got that far. |
| 15:59.00 | koen | does it mention the neo1973? |
| 15:59.22 | lkcl | yep. right at the top. |
| 16:01.16 | lkcl | http://hands.com/~lkcl/linux.phones.txt - bear in mind that this is a work-in-progress. oh. i just posted a request-to-open-the-debate over that utterly shit mux idea that some insane person had at motorola, to kernel-discuss@handhelds.org. ok - that's just my opinion, you understand. bear in mind that i did start, before i ran out of time and money, nine months ago, a userspace equivalent service. |
| 16:05.33 | koen | try using haralds gsm thing |
| 16:05.45 | koen | should be opened up soon |
| 16:05.59 | ao2 | lkcl, Neo1973 is form FIC not FIP :) |
| 16:06.02 | lkcl | the main thing i'm looking for is historical information and accurate stuff on the openezx ports, because i've been tracking xda-developers for nearly three years but haven't focussed on the motorola stuff, other than at the peripheral, at all. plus, i would like to ensure that everyone keeps talking - greenphone, neo1973, htc, openezx - we all have exactly the same issues to face. |
| 16:06.02 | koen | and s/FIP/FIC/g |
| 16:06.04 | lkcl | ack - ta :) |
| 16:06.17 | koen | heh |
| 16:06.20 | koen | greenphone |
| 16:06.21 | lkcl | i have lots of urls to put in... |
| 16:08.21 | LoneStar | so, if you have a chance to create a linux phone, what will you use to replace qtopia? |
| 16:09.00 | koen | right now openmoko looks like the best bet |
| 16:09.25 | ao2 | lkcl, also the second moto phone you mention should be A780 not E780 |
| 16:09.44 | lkcl | ao2: ack! |
| 16:10.18 | LoneStar | isn't the second A768? |
| 16:11.13 | lkcl | somebody work it out and let me know :) |
| 16:12.29 | ao2 | both A780 and A768 exist, the point is that E780 does not :) |
| 16:13.01 | LoneStar | :D |
| 16:16.05 | nh_work | koen: did you read the Inq article on the neo1973? |
| 16:16.25 | koen | nh_work: the totally crap one? |
| 16:16.36 | koen | "2.6.18 kernel", "apt-get" |
| 16:16.37 | nh_work | koen: yeah, I was wondering how much of it was factually true. |
| 16:16.51 | nh_work | koen: IE, the bluetooth 2.0 part, and the battery part... |
| 16:17.14 | koen | http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2006/11/08/congratulations-madam-its-a-phone-2/ |
| 16:18.41 | koen | they have 2.17.7 in svn and will use ipkg as the package format |
| 16:19.15 | nh_work | glad bluetooth is in |
| 16:19.16 | koen | 2.6.17.7 that is |
| 16:20.01 | nh_work | koen: Inq is claiming 12mw battery |
| 16:21.03 | nh_work | koen: I did some fancy measurements of the screen and am guessing the phone is roughly 4.4"x2.2"x0.7" |
| 16:22.14 | koen | 11x5.5x2 ? |
| 16:23.08 | nh_work | 111mmx55mmx18mm is what I figured out last night. |
| 16:24.23 | koen | nice size for a hockey puck ;) |
| 16:24.28 | nh_work | lol |
| 16:24.52 | nh_work | It's a little bit wider than I would have liked. height is probably fine. |
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| 17:18.45 | lkcl | updated http://hands.com/~lkcl/linux.phones.txt - need your help/input on filling out the techie stuff on the openezx phones, cos i don't know nuffink about the history. i'm just off to do some hoovering to get a break and rest my fingers, so if you feel more comfortable, email me (lkcl@lkcl.net) or just write at me and i'll look through the irc logs and answer in a bit. |
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| 17:21.59 | LoneStar | will GTK+ consumes more resource than qt as a phone GUI? |
| 17:22.37 | koen | LoneStar: only if you drink the TrollTech kool-aid |
| 17:22.40 | florian_kc | LoneStar: no... well, but you maybe want to compare it with QT/E |
| 17:23.52 | koen | lkcl: opie has been post 1.0 for some years now |
| 17:39.31 | blkhawk | HAh1 |
| 17:39.51 | lkcl | ahh now i remember you, mr koen - and it was from at least a year ago, with the openembedded.org stuff. yeh, 0.8.4 was what i was recommended to try |
| 17:40.16 | koen | so I'm using KDE 2006.10 by your reasoning? |
| 17:40.21 | koen | or GNOME 2006.10 ? |
| 17:40.39 | blkhawk | i just realized that the alarmclock function of my a780 triggers every 12 hours for aome strange reason if i did not aknowlege it the first time |
| 17:41.05 | koen | lkcl: hint: opie is not a distribution |
| 17:41.31 | koen | lkcl: please do some research before stating nonsense |
| 17:42.27 | lkcl | ok - that's why i am soliciting input from people (this time :) ) cos i want to get things right |
| 17:42.58 | lkcl | ok it's familiar that's 0.8.4, right? |
| 17:43.18 | koen | dunno |
| 17:43.26 | koen | it too hard to check apperently |
| 17:43.42 | lkcl | google shows people releasing familiar 0.8.4. |
| 17:43.52 | lkcl | long-awaited etc. etc. :) |
| 17:44.11 | florian_kc | *cough* |
| 17:44.57 | koen | buggy, outdated, ran by morons is more accurate |
| 17:45.37 | lkcl | oh dear! |
| 17:47.53 | koen | ade|desk: trying so hard to be compatible with debian that debian is now using angstrom :) |
| 17:48.02 | ade|desk | lol |
| 17:48.41 | florian_kc | heh |
| 17:48.41 | koen | I wonder if FIC will use eabi now that it works on armv4t |
| 18:28.10 | LaF0rge | re |
| 18:28.28 | koen | LaF0rge: wb |
| 18:28.50 | ljp | actually, GTK+ does seem to consume more resources, especially if you dont have 128 MB ram |
| 18:29.09 | ljp | somepeople dont actually like facts |
| 18:29.49 | LaF0rge | koen: it works on armv4? still, I don't think we'll do the switch... that will cause too many unnceccessary problems at this late stage of development |
| 18:30.13 | koen | LaF0rge: on armv4t |
| 18:30.47 | koen | LaF0rge: it still needs the 'bx' insn |
| 18:31.58 | koen | LaF0rge: it's nice to have more options, even if you don't use them at the end :) |
| 18:32.15 | LaF0rge | koen: yes. the next generation maybe... |
| 18:32.57 | koen | LaF0rge: the patch to fix armv4t: http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/gcc/gcc-4.1.1/unbreak-armv4t.patch |
| 18:33.43 | koen | LaF0rge: arm ltd and csl are trying to push everyone to armv6, so that's why it was 'broken' for so long |
| 18:36.32 | [g2] | LaF0rge is there USB on the FIC phone ? |
| 18:36.52 | [g2] | and congrats btw ! |
| 18:37.41 | [g2] | koen you saw mickey|AMS|zzZZz blog post that it as BT ? |
| 18:37.54 | koen | yes |
| 18:38.50 | LoneStar | LaF0rge, late stage of what? |
| 18:38.52 | [g2] | so the 1st thing I want to do is what I've been wanting to do with the A780. A BT remote control for the audio player |
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| 18:44.49 | koen | LaF0rge: it's open, so people like me can rebuild moko for eabi :) |
| 18:45.31 | LaF0rge | koen: yes, you can. |
| 18:46.09 | LaF0rge | g2: yes, it has usb host and device mode (host mode without power supply) |
| 18:46.36 | koen | the nokia770 wiki has enough docs on how to build a usb power inserter |
| 18:47.48 | [g2] | LaF0rge awesome, so host just doesn't supply the 500ma per USB spec as the phone is battery operated |
| 18:47.55 | koen | sneak in distcc and you'll have nice cluster in mainland china :) |
| 18:48.23 | koen | [g2]: it supplies 0V and 0mA |
| 18:49.26 | [g2] | koen so if you plugged an externally powered hub in devices would work fine |
| 18:49.37 | [g2] | as the hub would supply the power |
| 18:49.49 | koen | the hub wants 5V from the host as well |
| 18:49.57 | koen | iirc it requires a special cable |
| 18:50.13 | [g2] | or a MintyBoost :) |
| 18:50.39 | [g2] | or a Energi to Go (mini USB variant) |
| 18:50.53 | [g2] | both supply 5V from 2AAs |
| 18:52.11 | [g2] | so the miniusb is just the + and - usb signals |
| 18:52.12 | LaF0rge | g2/koen: i'm trying to get a battery-powered usb hub manufactured |
| 18:52.26 | LaF0rge | one that automatically recharges once it's attached to a powered host port again |
| 18:52.47 | [g2] | LaF0rge Energizer already sells a 5V 2 AA battery one for $19.99 at Target |
| 18:53.03 | LaF0rge | g2: no, that would be a li-ion battey with dc/dc upconverter |
| 18:54.30 | [g2] | LaF0rge http://www.techtium.com/products.htm |
| 18:55.05 | [g2] | that's a main chip in the Energizer product I took apart yesterday |
| 18:56.09 | [g2] | actually, with USB and power it could bolt right into the FIC |
| 18:56.28 | [g2] | bingo SIRF III for the FIC on ttyUSB0 |
| 18:58.11 | koen | 2 gps's? |
| 18:58.17 | koen | isn't that a bit overkill? |
| 18:59.09 | [g2] | koen I have yet to see the sensitivity of the FIC GPS |
| 18:59.33 | [g2] | the SIRF III modules from USGlobalSat are rated at -159dB |
| 19:00.07 | koen | with a gps you can navigate using cell towers |
| 19:00.12 | koen | that even works indoors |
| 19:00.13 | [g2] | I get 7-8 Sats inside the house and have been on bike rides through the woods in pretty dense foiliage with good coverage |
| 19:01.09 | koen | it's all concrete and steel over here |
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| 19:12.15 | Hopscotch | http://www.cdaniel.de/download/hotspotwue.png |
| 19:12.15 | [g2] | Hopscotch there's a script for extracting the GPS coords from kismet logs |
| 19:12.15 | koen | and for the awk challenged we have gpsbabel |
| 19:12.15 | Hopscotch | yeah, but kismet doesn't log _all_ koordinates where it hears a hotspot |
| 19:12.16 | [g2] | gpsbabel is fine and does other conversions |
| 19:12.16 | koen | I use gpsbabel to sanitize the gpx files from maemo-mapper |
| 19:12.16 | koen | something like maemo-mapper would rock on the FIC |
| 19:12.16 | [g2] | Ok well we'll get the party started in the next couple days |
| 19:12.16 | [g2] | I'll tell you guys the web site after I launch it in the next week |
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| 20:26.10 | nh_work | [g2]: well, I emailed Sean, I'll have to see if he gets back to me. :) |
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| 20:36.11 | [g2] | nh_work what tz are you in ? if you can get 1 I'll order 1 too :) |
| 20:37.00 | nh_work | [g2] I'm in CST. I just emailed him asking about it. :) |
| 20:37.40 | [g2] | nh_work ok so you are in the US |
| 20:37.46 | nh_work | [g2] yeah, how about you? |
| 20:37.49 | [g2] | shipping around stuff is easy |
| 20:37.51 | [g2] | NC |
| 20:38.34 | nh_work | [g2]: Are you at all involved in it? |
| 20:39.42 | [g2] | nh_work dunno what you mean by "it" |
| 20:40.20 | nh_work | [g2]: the neo1973/openmoko stuff |
| 20:41.23 | [g2] | nh_work my understanding is that only LaF0rge and mickey|AMS|zzZZz are |
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| 20:41.56 | nh_work | [g2]: ah, ok. |
| 20:41.56 | [g2] | I've used OE for nearly the last 2.5 years on XScale so I'm pretty familiar with OE and the setup |
| 20:43.01 | [g2] | ok 26 months |
| 20:43.01 | [g2] | that's more like 2.25 years |
| 20:43.03 | nh_work | [g2]: I've got gpe running on my palm pilot, but other than that I don't have too much experience with it. I've done some GTK development before though. |
| 20:43.17 | [g2] | I'm on the embedded side |
| 20:43.18 | koen | [g2]: 2.1666666666666666666 |
| 20:43.32 | koen | :p |
| 20:43.55 | nh_work | [g2]: I had to use vxworks for a while, does that count as embedded experience? ;) |
| 20:45.00 | [g2] | nh_work I think having embedded experience is great. However, embedded linux is quite different |
| 20:45.30 | nh_work | [g2]: definitely. I'd probably be more interested in application development anyway. |
| 20:45.31 | [g2] | LaF0rge imho had a very good post about stuff from vendors in the last week or two |
| 20:46.04 | [g2] | I thought he was mostly spot on with the comments from his post |
| 20:47.26 | nh_work | [g2]: I wish motorola was more open with their phones. I like the openness of the FIC phone, but it's pretty big and I'm not fond of the lack of buttons. |
| 20:47.49 | nh_work | the 640x480 screen and gps are nice features though. |
| 20:48.13 | [g2] | nh_work I think motorola is moving in the right direction, but it takes time for large organizations to change. It's a cultural issue |
| 20:49.56 | koen | as soon as fic ships 100k phones/month people will notice |
| 20:51.03 | [g2] | koen ppl have already noticed as the announcement of the silicon valley linux phone venture |
| 20:51.20 | [g2] | (which sounded like vaporware) |
| 20:51.31 | [g2] | and a "me too" announcement |
| 20:51.45 | [g2] | IMHO this puts a lot of pressure on Trolltech |
| 20:52.30 | koen | [g2]: http://lists.trolltech.com/qtopia-interest/2006-11/msg00000.html#msg00000 |
| 20:53.44 | ljp | and your point is? |
| 20:56.15 | nh_work | g2: I wanted a greenphone when it was announced, but the price is too steep. :( |
| 20:56.18 | [g2] | koen that's a funny thread |
| 20:56.51 | [g2] | ljp I think the point is the GreenPhone is a mess regarding licensing |
| 20:58.08 | ljp | no. its just that sdk license needs to clarify what is meant by "Licensed Software" |
| 20:58.45 | ljp | nh_work: well maybe TT will throw around some free ones |
| 21:00.30 | lkcl | allo ljp |
| 21:00.41 | ljp | hi |
| 21:01.11 | lkcl | you get my email? am writing an article about linux phones - wanted to solicit your input. |
| 21:01.23 | lkcl | http://hands.com/~lkcl/linux.phones.txt - work-in-progress. |
| 21:02.08 | lkcl | looong article :) |
| 21:03.04 | nh_work | ljp: free hardware is always appreciated. :D |
| 21:03.55 | [g2] | lkcl is that for linux devices ? |
| 21:04.12 | lkcl | yep. |
| 21:04.23 | [g2] | lkcl awesome |
| 21:04.39 | [g2] | do you write a lot there ? |
| 21:05.13 | lkcl | once so far. i think. i wrote an article 1st jan 2005 for the htc devices |
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| 21:09.57 | nh_work | er... someone on the opensource.motorola.com forums posted that they flashed an a1200 firmware to the E2... |
| 21:34.11 | [g2] | lkcl nice article |
| 21:35.35 | lkcl | ta. needs more work though! in particular, i'm looking for hints from openezx users and developers on historical info and technical development history of the motorola phones. urls for me to read would do. i've done the HTC history; i want to d othe same for openezx |
| 21:40.54 | stefan_schmidt | lkcl: The news on the website give you some historical hints. Wiki is mostly up-to-date |
| 21:41.29 | stefan_schmidt | lkcl: And of course you can write me a mail and ask. |
| 21:41.54 | lkcl | hurrah! thank you stefan |
| 21:43.20 | stefan_schmidt | lkcl: Just write me a mail with the questions and I try to answer or give an url. |
| 21:44.55 | stefan_schmidt | And of course chocolate and hardrock. :) |
| 21:46.33 | [g2] | anybody know where the ts07.10 spec is ? |
| 21:46.38 | nh_work | stefan: why happier than yesterday? :) |
| 21:48.22 | stefan_schmidt | nh_work: Made good progress at work an my minor subject psychology course was interesting. :) |
| 21:48.35 | nh_work | good! :) |
| 21:49.00 | stefan_schmidt | [g2]: You mean which standard group? |
| 21:49.12 | stefan_schmidt | [g2]: Should be ITU, or not? |
| 21:49.28 | [g2] | stefan_schmidt I didn't see it in the GSM standards |
| 21:50.00 | stefan_schmidt | [g2]: hmm, isn't thee a link in the wiki about it? |
| 21:50.23 | [g2] | stefan_schmidt heh.. That's be a crazy place to look :) |
| 21:51.05 | stefan_schmidt | [g2]: You just need to know where... |
| 21:51.28 | [g2] | cleary the search box isn't helping |
| 21:53.35 | stefan_schmidt | [g2]: http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/html-info/27010.htm |
| 21:53.37 | [g2] | stefan_schmidt thx I found the reference |
| 21:53.52 | stefan_schmidt | [g2]: From http://wiki.openezx.org/Mux_cli |
| 21:53.54 | stefan_schmidt | :) |
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| 22:00.41 | stefan_schmidt | hi dionua |
| 22:00.55 | dionua | stefan_schmidt: hi |
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| 23:20.10 | florian | re |
| 23:20.25 | [g2] | w |
| 23:20.30 | [g2] | doh! wb |
