irclog2html for #openembedded on 20031021

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02:19.02kergoth`bblhey cool, al lowe has the leisure suit larry theme song as cell phone ringtones on his site
02:21.00treke|homehmmm
02:21.16treke|homethat would be cool, I wonder if my phone does the ring tones shit
02:21.28kergothdunno, my nokia looks like it can actually do any midi file
02:21.34treke|homeprobably not
02:21.44kergothgoogle it
02:21.45kergothheh
02:22.10treke|homeI dont have blue tooth or ir on my phone
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02:23.15kergothprobably a serial interface if you can get the cable
02:23.29treke|homeprobably, dont think I want the ring tone that much :p
02:23.37kergothheheh
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02:33.56treke|homew00t
02:34.04treke|homea gtk mozilla front end
02:50.15kergotherr, nokia has a portable gaming device?
02:50.18kergothwhen did that happen
02:51.31kergothheh, it can do multiplayer over BT?
02:51.35kergoththats pretty spiffy
02:51.53kergothbrb, food
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03:13.24treke|homefuck it
03:13.27treke|homenot worth the trouble
03:22.06ljpbetter try to qt mozilla front end
03:22.25treke|homeqt sucks
03:22.27treke|homegtk rules
03:24.39ljpgtk sux
03:24.41ljpqt rulez
03:24.49kergothgtk sucks
03:24.50kergothqt sucks
03:24.53kergothconsole rulez
03:24.55kergoth:D
03:25.03treke|homekergoth's mom sucks
03:25.05ljptheer's qt for console ya know. :)
03:25.19kergoths/console/ncurses/
03:25.21kergothheh!
03:25.56ljpthat _would_ be cool
03:29.19mewyngtk sucks
03:29.22mewynqt sucks
03:29.25mewynconsole sucks
03:29.30mewynMFC rulez
03:30.09ljpyou obviously have never tried writing MFC code
03:30.29ljpMS doesnt even use MFC
03:30.46mewynlol
03:30.59mewyni've never tried it, nor will i ever did
03:31.15kergothum
03:31.18kergoths/ did$/
03:31.22mewynwill
03:31.25mewynsorry
03:31.27kergothheheh
03:31.27mewyngetting tired
03:31.37kergothi'm out of laphroaig :(
03:31.52mewyndon't make me recode your kernel... it will die in horrible ways not even microsoft thought of
03:32.10kergothtreke|home: doh
03:32.21mewynand i, no rum
03:32.24treke|homemewyn: Can't be any worse than lineo
03:33.49mewyntrue
03:34.06mewyneven i could steal code circles around them
03:34.25mewynand that made little to no sense, but hell, i don't give a damn
03:37.14mewynodd
03:37.34mewynmust have come over from japan
03:37.42ljpnope. .au made
03:37.51mewynyou can get anything in ja from a can
03:37.56mewynwell, i mean the idea for it
03:38.11kergothscotch & coke in a can?
03:38.13kergothodd
03:38.26mewyni'd rather have rum and coke in a can
03:38.56kergothheh, scotch belongs by itself damnit
03:38.57kergoth:)
03:39.01mewynyes\
03:39.13mewyni know that and i don't even like whiskeys
03:39.33treke|homekergoth: agreed
03:39.45treke|home*maybe* with ice, but nothing else
03:41.36kergothyep
03:48.16ljpit reminded me of my grampa - golf and scotch
03:48.46treke|homedid grampa prefer his scotch from  a can?
03:48.53ljpno.
03:49.25ljpthe can was convient
03:55.59mewynyes, but i don't think "buh" fits in that word anywhere
03:59.05treke|homehmmm
03:59.13treke|homeI wonder if my payment went through
04:11.00kergothgoddamnit
04:11.07kergothi keep expecting windows to automatically copy on select
04:11.08kergothheh
04:13.32treke|homeman
04:13.49treke|homewtf do people automatically assume that using opengl will magically mape things run fast
04:14.51ljpcause
04:16.02treke|homeand you just want to scream "it's a freaking xdm replacement. who gives a shit"
04:16.23kergothhehe
04:16.38kergothits a fucking api, not a end-all-be-all-solution
04:16.45kergothpeople are stupid, we know this
04:23.30kergoththeft?
04:24.33ljpyou could say that :)
04:24.59kergothheheh
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04:46.36kergother?
04:46.37kergothheh
04:46.38treke|homefunny stuff
04:46.59treke|homekergoth: Penn and Teller show from showtime.
04:47.04kergothah
04:47.10kergothi need some premium stations
04:47.11kergothheh
04:47.12treke|homecompletely and utterly biased
04:47.17treke|homebut funny craps
04:47.27treke|homesame here
04:47.34treke|homeI barely watch the cable I have
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05:01.16W8TVI|zgoing to have to pester tim...
05:01.39W8TVI|zwhat ever he did to bzflag sucked
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08:15.37Twiunmornin' all
08:19.21madeddiehowdy
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09:40.57CIArepository=03buildroot user=11wind@spiritship
09:40.58CIA07ChangeSet@1.1370 fix gawk error if dir exists
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10:06.48lpotterhmmm.. how do I handle two tarballs in buildroot
10:11.05mickeyltwo tarballs?
10:11.35lpotteradding alsa - there;s alsalib and alsadriver
10:12.09lpottermaybe two packages..
10:12.31mickeyltwo packages or see ncurses or python which uses subpackages
10:13.12lpotterhmm, I will also need to run a configure script on firstboot, I guess
10:13.40mickeyllikely. package a S-file then.
10:16.07lpotterqtopia now supports wireless-tools
10:16.14mickeylnice
10:16.20mickeyl(about time)
10:16.21mickeyl:)
10:16.59lpotterwell.. I'll whip 'em into shape
10:18.09lpotterI am adding alsa for the pdAudio cf card I am going to try to get running on zaurus
10:25.56lpotter?
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10:26.15Twiunor how to develop software withough design... you grow it instead
10:26.23Twiunadd plenty of fertiliser
10:26.52Twiunthings like incremental functional specifications... getting specified during development
10:27.11Twiunhoping the developper won't get to the gaps before they're specified
10:27.20Twiuns/developper/developer/
10:30.36mickeylisn't that what they call XP ?
10:30.47mickeylrefactoring, testing, pair programming, etc
10:33.00mickeylbrrr
10:33.03mickeylcold here
10:34.35Twiunnah, XP is a structured method... and you do it with _one_ spec a time
10:35.38mickeylah yeah, you said "specifiying while developing" (which is ridiculous) and not "designing while developing" (which is XP)
10:37.25TwiunI've got 4 specs on the go atm as well
10:37.30mickeyluhm
10:41.28Twiunall at various stages of *cough* design *cough*
10:42.04Twiunand with branching in CVS not allowed (it confuses certain developers) it means it's also hard to separate changes
10:42.31Twiunall this leads to a very strong desire to be elsewhere when the fertiliser hits the rotivator
10:42.43mickeylugh
10:42.46mickeylno fun there
10:42.48mickeylisn't it?
10:43.21Twiunnope... and here I thought development couldn't be worse than the first place I worked
10:44.03mickeylhave an attraction to... uhm... "spontaneous processes", eh? ;)
10:45.14lpottermickeyl: did you see my email to opie-core?
10:45.39mickeyllpotter: yes. i have networking problems and i'm in holiday else i had responded
10:45.49mickeyllpotter: it's a very good and important thing.
10:46.00mickeyllpotter: i recommend frankfurt because of its central place
10:46.09Twiunmore like aspiring to proper processes but failing miserably through poor management and chain of responsibility
10:46.12lpotterand you are in frankfurt
10:46.22mickeyllpotter: oh... yes, now that you say it ;)
10:46.26lpotter:)
10:46.42mickeylTwiun: too bad. going to bear or looking for something else?
10:47.13mickeyllpotter: we just have to wait until holger's back from hospital and we came up with a reasonable agenda
10:47.22Twiunmickeyl: new, shiny contracts are in the post ;)
10:47.37lpotterya, it also depends on when he will be there next
10:49.11mickeylhmm any idea who wrote drawpad?
10:50.17mickeylS.Prud'homme
10:51.34lpotterya, he gave that up, due to other work
10:51.49lpotteryou can maintain it
10:52.02mickeylaw... no
10:52.15mickeylnot vice versa ;)
10:52.28mickeylhowever, I just took a look at the SIGSEGV
10:52.34mickeylwhich is holding 1.0.2 kind of back
10:56.41Twiunmickeyl: shall we wait until 1.0.2 is out of the door before pestering opie devs about the design stuff?
10:57.08mickeylTwiun: yes, i'd think so. it's only a matter of days.
10:57.47Twiunmickeyl: great - it gives him some time to find out more about Opie, before he makes any time commitments
10:57.49mickeylafter 1.0.2 we have plenty of time, because we hopefully won't come up with another 1.0.x release and the first 1.1 things aren't scheduled yet.
10:58.18mickeylgood. time to breathe and to rework things in a sane and thoughtful manner
11:01.00Twiunok - shall I start a wiki node for the job specs?
11:01.11Twiun(regardless of who does it)
11:01.18mickeylyeah, that would be helpful
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11:07.54mickeyllpotter: uhm.. by the way... did you check if your modified fbmem patch applies cleanly?
11:08.07lpotterit doesn;t
11:08.09lpotter:)
11:08.38mickeylk. like i said, the embedix patch seems to already include the pgtable part.
11:08.40lpotterthe phtable.h patch fails because the part it adds onto isnt there
11:08.46mickeylisn't there?
11:08.51mickeylhmm
11:09.04lpotternoncached_buffer
11:09.09lpotteror somethine
11:09.44mickeylhmm... i wonder why it applies without the table part.
11:09.49lpotterpgprot_noncached_buffered
11:10.17lpotterit looks for pgprot_noncached
11:10.25lpotterto add a define
11:10.47lpotterperhaps they made it define that elsewhere
11:12.17lpottermight as well backout that push to that patch
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11:23.19Twiunmickeyl: here's the preliminary text http://opie.handhelds.org/wiki/index.php/OpieGUIDesigner
11:24.40mickeylTwiun: good so far. what is LaF, btw.?
11:24.51TwiunLook And Feel
11:24.54mickeylaah
11:24.55mickeylok :Ö)
11:24.57TwiunI'll create a node ;)
11:25.01mickeylyeah
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11:32.30Twiunmickeyl: there you go http://opie.handhelds.org/wiki/index.php/LookAndFeel
11:34.05mickeylTwiun: nice. I will add a few links to available guides eventually
11:35.17Twiunmickeyl: please do - I stuck the Swing one on there as that's what I know best
11:35.46Twiunfrom memory, Windows has one, Office a separate one, and I'm sure most big apps also have them
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12:44.47lpottermmmm spaghetti
12:44.59Twiuntasty.... just don't like it in my code
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14:07.20schurigTwiun IS mad :-)
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14:50.26Twiunschurig: my sanity takes a quick 10 minute break every hour
14:57.24kergothmorning
14:58.15gb2morning
14:58.25Twiunhowdy kergoth
15:01.07chouimat|angryhi Twiun kergoth
15:01.21Twiunwhat's made you angry today choumat?
15:01.40chouimat|angryTwiun: a dead disk ...
15:02.02Twiunahhhh
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15:33.57kergothhmm
15:35.07Twiunindeed
15:35.59gb2i agree
15:37.41kergoth10:36 < DannyB> gccbot, lart lxrbot
15:37.42kergoth10:36  * gccbot sings all of drivers/block/floppy.c to lxrbot (#13)
15:37.44kergoththats just mean
15:50.21trekemorning kergoth
15:52.18kergothhmmm.. hey Twiun, think we should track md5s in our file manifest for the output packages?  we could enforce that a change to the manifest results in a revision increase, so nothing happens that isnt properly visable
15:52.22kergothhey treke
15:54.14Twiunhmmm
15:54.23Twiunthat's a possibility
15:55.23TwiunI can't think of anything specifically bad with that approach
15:55.47Twiunand any changes to the manifest _would_ indicate minor changes for the package
15:56.08kergothyep.  it wouldnt be possible to accidentally cause a user visable change without incrementing the version
15:56.10Twiunit'd be nice to be able to test for changes in the files referenced too
15:56.11kergothwhich is a Good Thing
15:56.54chouimat.win 2
15:57.24gb2any rebuild will most likely result in the md5sum changing
15:58.07Twiunnot necessarily - the md5sum is tied to the manifest attributes, namely file lists and package attributes
15:58.16Twiunnot package file contents
15:58.28gb2oh
15:58.45kergothyeah. its not perfect, but at least structure changes would force an increment
15:58.49Twiunerm... that should read contents of package files
15:58.52kergothhm.
15:58.54Twiunyeah, definately
15:59.02Twiuns/package/packaged/
15:59.08Twiunwe need a glossary ;)
16:03.32kergothaha, thats cool. the bot on #offtopic on oftc can 'googlefight'.  compares the # of google hits on one string to another
16:03.46kergoth11:01 < gccbot> Nero: 'debian': 4720000, 'gentoo': 363000
16:04.00trekeclearly debian is better
16:04.20kergoth11:04 < gccbot> obiwan: 'linux': 48400000, 'sex': 31600000
16:04.24kergothclearly something is wrong here
16:04.26kergothhehe
16:04.34Twiunnah, that's just matching all the 'debian sucks' websites
16:04.48Twiunkergoth: think it's hitting the google porn filters?
16:05.00mewynlol
16:05.02kergothitd have to be.. i mean, linux cant be better than sex
16:05.19Twiunno, but I don't think it causes as many flamewars
16:05.20mewynbut google's never wrong
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16:38.01mickeylzaurus-general? where's that?
16:38.17trekeone of the zaurus.com mailing lists
16:38.19kergothhosted on zaurus.com
16:38.25kergothi havent been on that list in some time
16:38.26kergothheh
16:38.31kergothmostly user traffic
16:38.39mickeylmmh. uninteresting ;)
16:38.48kergothhm, i think its about time i revamp oeinstall to be slightly more interesting
16:39.49kergothguess it should still obey OEFILES and use the package metadata, but it should iterate through the packages for each package, calling its scripts and determining the filename of the output file for the type in question, then it "installs" that type into the rootfs
16:39.57kergoths/packages/binary packages/
16:40.00kergoths/package/build package/
16:40.04kergothdamn ambiguity
16:42.17kergothguess if you select type 'ipk' but the ipk doenst exist we'd have a problem, so should it call oebuild or oemake to make sure we're built? or just warn/error?
16:43.32mickeylhmm... rather do it explicit
16:43.34mickeylso warn/error.
16:44.12kergothyeah
16:44.13kergothk
16:44.25kergothhm.
16:44.40kergothtar/direct should probably be obeying RDEPENDS.. practically writing a runtime package manager here
16:44.43kergothheh
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16:51.10kergothhm
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16:57.06trekekergoth: Well you might as well just write a package manager :p
16:57.19kergothoh yeah, thats *just* what i want to do
16:57.25trekeafter all, you need a new project...
16:57.37kergothi need a project thats completely unrelated to this crap :)
16:57.51kergothlike getting the fb console moved into userspace
16:57.54kergothor writing a new init
16:57.56gb2perhaps something like beach surveying or something
16:58.00gb2;)
16:58.01kergothhah, theres an idea
16:58.10trekeI like gb2's idea
17:01.39kergothhm, should i put how a type of package is installed into the package's class?
17:01.49kergothso package_ipk contains a install_ipk function as well
17:03.01kergothguess thatd be better than stuffing it into oeinstall proper
17:03.18mickeyl_shouldn't hurt. it's there if we need to customize,.
17:03.33kergothyeah. i like having as much as we can in the metadata store
17:03.39kergothsince you can manipulate it, override it, etc
17:06.59kergothwe should probably be caching entire sets of file metadata
17:07.11kergothso it doesnt have to pull in base.oeclass for every damn .oe
17:07.14kergothin an oemake run
17:07.14kergothheh
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17:59.20kergothwhee.
17:59.29pb_quite.
18:00.24chouimat|outbbl
18:00.53treketell us something we didn't know
18:07.36gb2go go gadget lilo :P
18:09.12Twiunre
18:09.36kergothgrr
18:09.45kergoththe nmap configure has tests that arent in its configure.ac!!
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18:11.46mickeyl_hmm
18:11.52mickeyl_~lart RF fluctuation
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18:21.53mickeyl_"Actually I've made a start on integrating the WEv13 update (scan
18:21.53mickeyl_<PROTECTED>
18:21.57mickeyl_finally
18:22.05kergothorinoco?
18:22.06mickeyl_dave integrates scanning into the orinoco core
18:22.09mickeyl_yep
18:22.11kergothnice!
18:22.18kergothyay for not having to apply a pile-o-patches
18:22.20mickeyl_it was about time, though :)
18:22.25kergothyep
18:22.40mickeyl_now with scanning in the core and monitoring as an official patch from him... nice.
18:22.52mickeyl_only missing is symbol/socket in the orinoco core imho
18:23.09mickeyl_but that may come eventually since pavel is now orinoco co-maintainer.
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18:23.17kergothexcellent
18:23.30kergothwonder what the status is on hostap firmware download support
18:23.42kergothcould get spectrum working there, eh?
18:23.50mickeyl_should be possible, yeah.
18:24.01mickeyl_hermesap is probably dead
18:24.04kergothwould be good to have alternatives
18:24.55gb2kergoth: hostap firmwar download works great
18:25.08gb2i considered looking at making spectrum work in it at one point
18:25.14gb2but it's on my giant TODO list
18:25.51gb2hostap ought to successfully control orinoco cards too
18:25.59gb2won't work as an AP though
18:26.01TheMasterMind1there's an hermesap
18:26.11TheMasterMind1that downloads firmware to orinoco cards and puts them in ap mode
18:26.18mickeyl_hermesap maintainer lost interest.
18:26.29TheMasterMind1yea, but the last release works pretty well
18:26.32gb2it's basically legacy hardware now
18:27.10mickeyl_legacy... well... for pdas i see a couple of years of future for 802.11b CF cards..
18:28.20*** join/#openembedded Speedy2 (JohnJacobs@cip-71-64.bbs.surfcity.net)
18:28.23Speedy2Yo
18:29.23Speedy2kergoth: Ping
18:29.29Speedy2kergoth: Source Navigator
18:30.09Speedy2snav?
18:30.11Speedy2ibot: snav?
18:30.14i guess snav is The Source-Navigator, a source code analysis tool. See: http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/
18:30.15Speedy2ibot: source navigator?
18:30.17i guess source navigator is http://sourcenav.sourceforge.net/
18:30.39kergothSpeedy2: ah, thanks
18:30.46Speedy2How goes it?
18:30.53trekeis that open source now?
18:31.37Speedy2treke: Yes
18:31.42Speedy2It's been so for a while.
18:31.55trekecool.
18:32.06kergothnot bad, been busy
18:32.07kergothyou?
18:32.57Speedy2Busy too
18:33.00kergothtreke: heh, OE is already progressing better than buildroot wrt submissions. just got an email with an nmap .oe
18:33.08TheMasterMind1wow
18:33.12kergothyay for simple metadata formats
18:33.31mickeyl_nice
18:33.37Speedy2ibot: seen _p
18:33.39i haven't seen '_p', Speedy2
18:33.42Speedy2ibot: seen pb_
18:33.42pb_ is currently on #opie (40m 17s) #gpe (40m 17s) #elinux (40m 17s) #openembedded (40m 17s) #handhelds.org (40m 17s) #hhwiki (40m 17s) #openzaurus (40m 17s).  Has said a total of 9 messages.  Is idling for 20m 49s
18:34.01kergothtreke: pulled in the major deviceisms for the minimal images today
18:34.27kergothtreke: sysvinit (inittab, /sbin/init symlink), modutils (modules, modules.conf)
18:34.37Twiunkergoth: btw, strike wonka off the migrate list - too much bitrot
18:34.39kergothsitting pretty well atm
18:34.45kergothTwiun: yeah, figured :)
18:35.13kergothi cant believe nmap
18:35.14Speedy2So I have this Lucent Orinoco Gold 16-bt 5V PCMCIA card...looking to trade it for a 32-bit Cardbus 3.3V card...any takers?
18:35.15Twiunkergoth: I figure we'll go with kaffe, once it gets the GNU Classpath AWT stuff
18:35.20kergoththey shipped a configure script with tests that werent in the shipped configure.ac
18:35.24kergoththats just bs.
18:35.33Twiunoversight?
18:35.37kergothprobably
18:35.57kergothannoying though, worked around it by doing the define that shouldve ended up in config.h, on teh commandline in the cppflags.
18:36.01kergothhack, but what the hell.
18:36.08kergothif someone tries to build on solaris they're in for a nasty surprise
18:36.56*** join/#openembedded zippo (~tomasito@p508C12C2.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:37.06Twiunthat's probably not going to happen too soon
18:37.15kergothhm, itd be cool to hook the opiealarm wakeup at a time bits into the stock 'at' daemon
18:37.19kergoth:)
18:37.27Speedy2re Twiun, mickeyl_
18:37.39kergoththen ya could just use at to schedule an operation, itd wake up, do it, and go back to sleep
18:37.59Twiunhey Speedy2
18:38.07kergoth(go back to sleep would be configurable)
18:38.17kergothanyone want to put this on their todo, or should i tackle it?
18:38.28kergothhehe
18:38.49trekekergoth: cool
18:39.00kergothshould cron wake you up as well for periodic operations?
18:57.46kergothhm, looks like we have about 114 packages atm that dont fail to build
18:57.47kergothnot bad
18:58.32TheMasterMind1and how many that do?
18:58.46kergoth7
18:58.52TheMasterMind1not bad at all
18:58.55kergoth4 of which used to build, but fail now due to autotools changes
18:59.04kergoth3 of which are new packages that havent yet been completed
19:09.03*** join/#openembedded TimRiker (~timr@proxyle02.ext.ti.com)
19:13.25Speedy2Yo Tim.
19:18.40kergothlpotter: so write it then
19:18.41kergoth:)
19:18.50lpotterhmm
19:19.05kergothdidnt feel like working out use of http in python
19:19.09lpotterbefore I've had caffeine? I dont think so
19:19.13kergothhehe
19:19.30kergothbeen reading user friendly lately? had a great one on that.
19:20.19kergothguy says "okay, lets go get some caffeine".. new guy says he doesnt drink coffee.  guy says "the longer it takes you to come to your senses, the longer i'm without my morning coffee."
19:20.24kergothheh
19:20.24kergothgood stuff
19:21.35gb2crap, it's tuesday.
19:21.40gb2which means more DVDs
19:21.43gb2and i'm out of shelves
19:22.12trekeI'm now stacking dvds on top of the tv
19:23.28trekesopranos and indiana jones are next on my list :)
19:23.35gb2indy came out today
19:24.19gb2along with battlestar galactica
19:24.32gb2and a pile of other stuff
19:24.41kergothi dont own a dvd rack
19:24.47kergothso its just like 6 or 7 piles on the floor
19:24.49kergothheh :\
19:25.25gb2i have a wire shelving unit, i want some wooden shelves though, i think they'll handle digipacks better
19:25.33gb2the wire tends to catch on the cardboard :|
19:27.36Speedy2Death to those who use Javascript.
19:45.49pb_They had it coming to them.
19:45.53Speedy2Agreed.
19:46.11Twiunlynx all the way!
19:47.03kergothlinks!
19:47.27kergoth:)
19:48.47Twiunbah, it's modernists like you that give the rest of us a bad name
19:49.02TwiunI bet you even use tab-completion too?
19:49.12kergothhehe
19:49.17kergoththere we go, mgetty+sendfax builds in oe
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19:51.28Twiunjust found some old buildroots ;)
19:51.44TwiunI reckon if I haven't used them in 4 months, I won't need 'em
19:51.47kergothhehe
19:52.01kergothcheck out the versions in cvs on the sf project sometime
19:52.02kergothamusing
19:52.08kergotherr, libmad no longer builds a shared lib
19:52.16kergothnor does libid3tag
19:52.17kergothodd
19:53.23lpotterehh, who cares - sharing's for dirty commy hippies
19:54.55kergotherr yeah it does, just with the wrong soname
19:54.56kergothweird
19:55.05kergothno .so
19:55.07kergothits libmad.0.1.blah
19:55.23kergothlibmad  libmad.0  libmad.0.2.0
19:55.28kergothweird.
19:59.06kergothaha
19:59.10kergothit wasnt inheriting libtool!
19:59.14kergoth:)
19:59.18kergothsame for libid3tag
20:00.14kergothwoo, /me moves them out of nonworking
20:05.43kergothlpotter: incorrectly set toolchain path?
20:05.52lpotternope
20:05.58pb_arm-linux-gcc not installed?
20:06.04lpotternope
20:06.06kergothgccver set wrong?
20:06.10kergoth(since it appends that)
20:06.18lpotternope
20:06.30kergothodd
20:06.34kergothwhat package is failing?
20:06.57lpotterkernel
20:07.18kergothwhy do people  never think about shell code portability?
20:07.22kergothit annoys me to no end
20:07.45pb_I think you've hit the nail on the head there.
20:07.52pb_people just never do think about it.
20:08.19pb_or, more to the point, most people probably have never had any reason to learn the difference between bash and sh.
20:09.02kergothyeah, true
20:09.53kergotheven before i got into embedded shell portability was a big concern,.. but only because i'd done sysadmin work on various unixes.. most people dont
20:10.02pb_after all, most (all?) linux distributions install bash as /bin/sh by default.
20:10.16pb_right, yeah.
20:10.36kergothitd be nice if bash truly behaved like it isnt bash when called as /bin/sh.
20:10.40kergothheh
20:10.50kergothlpotter: blackbox, litestep, ...
20:10.53kergoth:)
20:11.06lpotteryep. I use bb on my box at work, confuses everybody
20:11.13pb_yeah, that might be a nice feature to add.  probably have to make it conditional on POSIX_ME_HARDER or something, though, since it would break acres of shell scripts at a single stroke.
20:12.44kergothpb_: yeah, exactly
20:12.48pb_or whatever the right unit is for measuring quantity of shell scripts, anyway
20:13.38TheMasterMind1lines? bytes?
20:14.07kergothTheMasterMind1: that goes too deep into content
20:14.16kergothnot quantity of scripts, thats quantity of code
20:14.29pb_exactly
20:14.34TheMasterMind1ah, right
20:14.38kergotha herd of shell scripts
20:14.45kergothhehe
20:16.53kergothwoot
20:17.00kergothTheMasterMind1: only 3 remaining nonworking items :)
20:17.09kergothsamba needs a ton of test results in the site
20:17.16kergothcentericq needs a lot of updating to recent autotools
20:17.20kergothreadline is just being a bitch
20:17.35TheMasterMind1so how many more to convert still
20:17.37lpotterhas kde been added to oe yet? ;)
20:17.44kergothlpotter: not yet ;)
20:18.00kergothTheMasterMind1: quite a few.  everything gui really. opie, qtopia, all the qpe apps, all the X apps..
20:18.08kergothTheMasterMind1: oh, and kernels and kernel modules
20:18.11kergothand things that need kernels
20:18.14kergothlike pcmcia-cs and wireless-tools
20:18.27TheMasterMind1ok
20:18.38kergothwe have a kernel oeclass, so adding those should be a breeze
20:19.46lpotterhmm appending where my arm-linux-gcc is to my PATH in the shell, cured that not found problem
20:20.12lpotterodd
20:24.38kergothah,
20:24.46kergothreadline failure was a namespace issue with bits/signal.h
20:24.50kergothfixed
20:25.05kergothgcc -E is such a wonderful debugging tool
20:25.06kergothheh
20:26.12gb2wonderful debugging deluge i suppose
20:26.20gb2you endup sifting through tons of stuff
20:26.48kergothhehe
20:26.49kergothtrue that
20:55.27kergothcentericq's crosscompiling :)
20:55.50kergothcourse i did an evil hack.. our centericq build no longer supports gnutls, since it needs the gnutls macros even if you arent building with gnutls support..
20:55.58kergothjust commented out that call for now
20:56.04trekehehe
20:56.21kergothi need an ifdef in autoconf
20:56.34trekewonder if phpgroupware does any syncing
20:56.34kergothifdef AC_PATH_GNUTLS_BLAHBLAH.. AC_PATH_GNUTLS_BLAHBLAH() ..
20:56.43kergoththen itd be truly optional
20:57.13kergothcrap centericq takes a long time to build
21:00.28kergothi wish g++ wasnt so damn slow
21:00.29kergothheh
21:00.57Twiunwrite a better one ;)
21:01.28kergothoh with all my spare time :)
21:04.12Twiunkergoth: you _did_ want something to do at home
21:04.31kergothwriting a better c++ compiler wasnt exactly what i was lookign for :)
21:04.49chouimatkergoth: bah
21:04.57kergothi'm thinking about pursuing a new need(8) based init, and possibly the fb console in userspace thing
21:05.03kergothmaybe one or two others as possibilities
21:05.25Speedy2kergoth: Ever get a car?
21:05.28Speedy2^ new
21:05.39kergothnah, still driving my old monte carlo
21:05.49kergothwhich, incidentally, now needs a new windshield and who knows what else
21:05.54kergothbleh
21:06.11kergothcourse the windshield is covered by the insurance, but still gotta pay the deductable.
21:06.16kergothoh well
21:07.00kergothspiffy.
21:07.15Speedy2You know...I'm having a hard time understanding how companies can charge $80+ for AC/DC adaptors for notebooks, etc.
21:07.31Speedy2I need to get a car adaptor for my notebook...that doesn't suck.
21:07.43Speedy2I think maybe building one might just be the ticket.
21:07.50Speedy2(as I did previously for my Thinkpads)
21:09.24Speedy2Or...any suggestions for a cheap off the shelf one?
21:10.34*** join/#openembedded andersee (~andersee@codepoet.org)
21:11.31pb_yah, I need to get a new car.  My Renault has succumbed to terminal rust.
21:13.22kergothTheMasterMind1: only samba remains unbuildable
21:13.24kergothTheMasterMind1: :)
21:14.08kergothtreke: get anywhere with the X .oes?
21:14.26Twiunpb_: car's going to wait for me... gotta finish paying off the debts
21:14.34kergothTwiun: same here
21:14.43Twiunkergoth: it was one or the other... the debts won ;)
21:15.12kergothi have like two credit cards that i was late on at various points
21:15.18kergothso their rates jumped to like 25 percent.
21:15.36kergothmy monthly minimum isnt covering the interest, the debt actually increases monthly.
21:15.39kergothheh
21:15.42kergoth!!
21:16.19Twiunahh - I've been late on my CC payments on occasions - they didn't increase the rates
21:16.54kergothi was really late :)
21:17.11kergothjeeze, samba has 61 AC_TRY_RUN() calls
21:23.56W8TVIso does that mean that OE is ALMOST ready to be released?
21:24.44kergoth?
21:24.53kergothit means there are 200 more packages to convert to the new system
21:24.56kergothi dont know what you mean by released.
21:25.01kergoththe OE tools could certainly be released.
21:25.12kergothno incarnation of the OE distribution would be ready
21:25.16Twiunbut then we'd have to deal with all the whining
21:25.19kergothsince opie, x, etc arent in the metadata repos yet
21:25.32W8TVIah
21:25.36W8TVIok
21:25.39kergothi'm almost done with samba :)
21:25.53kergothfound 3 AC_TRY_RUN() calls that cant be overridden via the cache
21:26.01kergothone of which just doenst need to be run when crosscompiling
21:26.06W8TVIread the "Snapshots available at" part and was wondering if thats what it ment
21:26.15kergothW8TVI: snapshots OF OUR BUILDSYSTEMS
21:26.16kergothheh
21:26.17kergoth'/topic
21:26.21kergother, damn '
21:26.44W8TVIis the "roadmap" on the OE website?
21:27.17kergothroadmap?
21:27.28kergothread doc/TODO in the OE repos
21:27.40W8TVII guess that would be the todo...
21:27.43TheMasterMind1we'll make a map after we pave the roads
21:27.52kergothhehe, indeed
21:28.09kergothoh, nm, the third AC_TRY_RUN has a cross default
21:28.37W8TVII was just wondering if there was something that told the intended results of the project and how far along it is in that prosess
21:29.08TwiunW8TVI: there's a blurb in the docs, describing the project
21:29.30W8TVIok
21:29.35kergothin other words
21:29.36kergothrtfm
21:29.38kergoth:)
21:30.10kergothheh
21:30.12kergothsamba builds now
21:30.27TheMasterMind1wow
21:30.29TheMasterMind1no more nonworking eh
21:30.32kergothyay for not having any packages in nonworking
21:30.33kergothyep
21:30.42kergothfixed them all today
21:30.45kergothmust be on a roll
21:30.56W8TVII wish there was an sg20 IRC channel
21:31.05kergothalmost mostly done with the install changes
21:31.07kergothW8TVI: start one
21:31.15kergothW8TVI: register it with chanserv and email the sg20 yahoo group about it
21:31.16kergothheh
21:31.21W8TVIthis networking trouble is really getting to me...
21:31.24W8TVIheh
21:31.44TheMasterMind1kergoth: so add opie, qte, kernel and then we're all set
21:31.55kergothTheMasterMind1: qte's in
21:32.01W8TVII think I'll call it #magna
21:32.08kergothTheMasterMind1: opie and qpe apps arent, as well as X apps
21:32.14kergothTheMasterMind1: treke is hackign on the X bits
21:32.17TheMasterMind1ok
21:32.23TheMasterMind1we need opie bits for opie apps right?
21:32.28kergothyep
21:32.31kergothor qtopia
21:32.32TheMasterMind1and qte opie patches
21:32.37kergothqtopia would actually be better off adding sooner
21:32.41kergothsince i need to revamp opie's buildsystem
21:32.46kergothljp: ..
21:36.29*** join/#openembedded SuKoSh| (~sukoshi@dyn-81-166-46-64.ppp.tiscali.fr)
21:37.54ljp:)
21:38.01ljpyup, it's on the agenda
21:38.14ljpneed to figure out oe forst
21:38.18ljpfirst
21:40.12trekewtf. phpgroupware has a beer brewing module
21:41.58W8TVIibot: ibot
21:41.59ibot is probably a blootbot now, no longer an infobot. run by BZFlag (TimRiker) on his server. see blootbot also http://blootbot.sourceforge.net/ it uses SQLite but can use MySQL or other SQL for storage.
21:47.14*** mode/#openembedded [+o TheMasterMind1] by ChanServ
21:47.22gb2ibot: beer
21:47.23from memory, beer is ummm, ummm good!
21:47.28gb2mmm
21:50.43ljpibot: rum
21:50.45somebody said rum was zum fruehstueck ess ich ein nahashorn auf, hojaho und ne buddel voll von dem zeug
21:54.20*** join/#openembedded w8tvi_ (~w8tvi@1114107410.mi.dial.hexcom.net)
22:00.58W8TVIkergoth: spam sent!
22:00.59W8TVI:)
22:01.42W8TVIibot seen TimRiker
22:01.45timriker is currently on #elinux (2h 52m 42s) #openembedded (2h 52m 42s) #bzflag (2h 52m 42s).  Has said a total of 14 messages.  Is idling for 1h 18m 10s
22:06.36TimRiker~x de en zum fruehstueck ess ich ein nahashorn auf, hojaho und ne buddel voll von dem zeug
22:08.23mickeylhardly comprehensible. in both languages
22:09.22ljpwow, Germans really speak like that? ;)
22:10.36mickeylnot really :)
22:10.48mickeyldepends on the alcohol level though
22:12.42ljphehee
22:19.05chouimat|busyLVM rocks
22:20.59kergothjeeze, our packages repos is up to like 90 megs already
22:21.21ljpthats inconceivable!
22:22.03kergothoh, nm
22:22.06kergothonly 34 :)
22:26.08chouimat|boredljp: tsk tsk
22:26.51ljpis that a long mb or a short mb?
22:27.13chouimat|bored?
22:27.21ljp1024 vs. 1000
22:30.01Speedy2MegaByte vs. What HDD vendors call an MByte...
22:30.09Speedy2(HDD vendors, aka cheap bastards)
22:30.32kergothtechnically 1000 is a megabyte, according to the definition of the mega prefix
22:30.37kergothi always forget the real name of the other
22:31.30kergoth~/coding/projects/user/oe-metadata/packages$ ls -l tmp/deploy/tar/|wc -l
22:31.31kergoth<PROTECTED>
22:31.31kergothheh
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