| 00:02.14 | treke | hmmm, two people seem to like arch |
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| 00:30.15 | ljp | yea! meeting over |
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| 00:32.23 | treke | <warwick> Now we've decided how we can screw with zecke beste |
| 00:33.23 | tux_mike | now, why are you screwing with zecke? |
| 00:34.34 | ljp | heh, naa. warwick is still on paternity leave |
| 00:34.56 | tux_mike | treke: btw, i'm really liking OS X |
| 00:35.05 | treke | are you? |
| 00:35.15 | tux_mike | the only gripe i have is that the durn thing won't stay awake when lid closed |
| 00:35.53 | tux_mike | oh, and i want the F-keys to act like real f-keys |
| 00:39.24 | treke | but i can see why some people like it |
| 00:42.43 | tux_mike | it's nice |
| 00:43.07 | tux_mike | fast, and pretty easy to use, yet i can get nitty-gritty with it too |
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| 00:57.11 | treke | the ui wasnt my style, but I'm fairly odd |
| 01:20.15 | treke | btw, qttv is actually pretty cool |
| 01:20.31 | ljp | qttv? |
| 01:20.44 | treke | ljp: qt tv listing app |
| 01:20.51 | treke | http://qttv.sourceforge.net/ |
| 01:21.11 | ljp | ahh. yes... |
| 01:21.38 | ljp | people actually use tv listings instead of channel surfing? |
| 01:28.26 | Shdwdrgn | So I got ahold of a 5500 for a steal today. Flashed to OZ3.2, boots fine, but the glass was broken so of course the touchpad is trashed. Has anyone come up with alternative input devices on the Z? |
| 01:30.42 | Shdwdrgn | and assuming I can come up with something (maybe a simple mouse?) what would it take to get a mouse pointer to show up on the screen? |
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| 03:12.11 | chouimat | night |
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| 04:52.50 | Prakash | ANYONE WORKED WITH CLLF-BW31 EMBEDDED BOARD |
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| 04:53.33 | ljp_home_ | odd |
| 04:53.54 | Prakash | aNY ONE WORKED WITH CLLF BW31 PPC BOARD |
| 04:55.00 | ljp_home_ | I haven't heard of anyone |
| 04:55.34 | Prakash | ok |
| 04:55.45 | ljp_home_ | but that doesnt mean no one has |
| 04:56.02 | ljp_home_ | might ask during US daylight hours |
| 04:58.47 | Prakash | oh |
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| 04:59.06 | Prakash | where are you from |
| 04:59.15 | ljp_home_ | hmm, I think this irc client isn;t ready for prime time yet |
| 04:59.31 | ljp_home_ | I am in Brisbane, but am from the US |
| 04:59.45 | Prakash | ok |
| 04:59.48 | Prakash | nice to meet you |
| 04:59.53 | Prakash | what are you doing |
| 05:01.00 | ljp_home_ | just got internet in my house, I am playing hookie from work :) |
| 05:01.34 | Prakash | ok |
| 05:02.14 | ljp_home_ | dont really have it setup the way I want it yet |
| 05:10.47 | Prakash | oh |
| 05:10.52 | Prakash | Can i get your friendship |
| 05:12.18 | ljp_home_ | I am usually always here |
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| 07:27.48 | lpotter | punk rockers riot in canada |
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| 11:27.49 | Harlekin | lo |
| 11:28.06 | Harlekin | mithro: ping |
| 11:32.55 | Twiun | hey Harlekin |
| 11:32.58 | Twiun | how's things? |
| 11:33.14 | Harlekin | good |
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| 12:30.58 | mithro | Harlekin: pong |
| 12:33.30 | Harlekin | mithro: hey |
| 12:33.37 | Harlekin | are you currently doing gcc3 builds? |
| 12:45.20 | mithro | not at the moment |
| 12:45.22 | mithro | havn't had any time |
| 12:46.06 | mithro | sorry got to run |
| 12:46.07 | mithro | bblr |
| 12:58.03 | Twiun | ibot: seen tronical |
| 12:58.04 | | tronical is currently on #openembedded |
| 12:58.14 | Twiun | ~lart ibot |
| 12:58.19 | Twiun | yikes! |
| 12:58.51 | tronical | hey, ibot is right :) |
| 12:59.24 | Twiun | I was looking to see when you'd last made a sound ;) |
| 12:59.53 | Twiun | there's a guy in #openzaurus looking at opera and konqueror |
| 13:00.04 | Twiun | konq rendering++ feature-- |
| 13:00.12 | Twiun | features |
| 13:00.26 | tronical | ah, I see. he's probably not going to find many features then :) |
| 13:01.35 | Twiun | methinks he's looking at the sharp rom 3.10 opera |
| 13:09.05 | Harlekin | guy, start testing branch |
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| 14:06.54 | cmartin | ibot: seen mickeyl |
| 14:06.54 | | mickeyl <mickeyl@gandalf.tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de> was last seen on IRC in channel #openembedded, 3d 1h 44m 39s ago, saying: 'i can imagine that, really.'. |
| 14:07.15 | Twiun | tronical: see? that's what I was expecting from ibot |
| 14:07.32 | tronical | Twiun: ah, I see |
| 14:07.40 | cmartin | oh, mickeyl has been watching TV for some time now :) |
| 14:07.53 | tronical | must be a good movie :) |
| 14:08.03 | cmartin | he's probably a zombie by now |
| 14:10.25 | cmartin | anybody here use OpenSIMpad on a SIMpad? |
| 14:12.27 | chouimat | morning |
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| 14:12.45 | cmartin | if so check out http://opensimpad.org/peripherals.0.html - i added a peripherals DB to the site where you can report working hardware on the simpad |
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| 14:48.38 | gb2 | http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT6830035793.html |
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| 14:54.41 | Twiun | Aha! the IBM article ;) |
| 14:55.59 | HCl | ibot, oe |
| 14:56.00 | | well, oe is OpenEmbedded (see http://www.openembedded.org ), Outlook Express, or "Opportunistic Encryption" (see http://www.wavesec.org ) |
| 14:57.19 | HCl | where/how can i checkout oe? |
| 14:58.42 | yeiazel | ibot: oe checkout |
| 14:58.43 | | wish i knew, yeiazel |
| 14:58.49 | yeiazel | you dumb, ibot |
| 14:59.48 | HCl | or otherwise.. an opie 1 feed for oz 3.2 would do too |
| 14:59.49 | gb2 | ibot: oe bk |
| 14:59.51 | | i heard oe bk is bk clone http://openembedded.bkbits.net/oe oe;cd oe; bk -r co -q |
| 14:59.55 | HCl | ok.. |
| 15:01.28 | yeiazel | HCl: http://opie.handhelds.org/feed/openzaurus/ |
| 15:02.10 | HCl | ok, great |
| 15:02.31 | yeiazel | seen on http://opie.handhelds.org/download.php... |
| 15:02.47 | yeiazel | 30 seconds after typing "opie.handhelds.org" in tmy browser's address bar |
| 15:03.05 | yeiazel | I'm sure you could have done it yourself |
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| 15:03.15 | yeiazel | :) |
| 15:03.19 | HCl | 1.0.1 was in cvs more recently.. |
| 15:03.23 | HCl | the feed is 1.0.0 |
| 15:03.41 | yeiazel | heh :) |
| 15:04.54 | HCl | ibot, oz buildroot |
| 15:04.56 | | extra, extra, read all about it, oz bk is bk clone bk://openzaurus.bkbits.net/buildroot buildroot-oz; cd buildroot-oz; bk -r co -q; cp def-configs/collie-opie .config (for zaurus 5000d/5500) .. make oldconfig; make; or see bitkeeper (free download but non-gpl) or see 'oz snapshot' if you either cannot or will not use bitkeeper. |
| 15:05.31 | HCl | ibot, oz toolchain |
| 15:05.32 | | hmm... oz toolchain is http://www.openzaurus.org/official/toolchain/, or mkdir /usr/local/arm and extract them in there. |
| 15:10.11 | HCl | i dont suppose anyone has any idea when kernel 2.4.21 supports all the zaurus 5500 features? |
| 15:12.27 | Twiun | HCl: when someone does the work |
| 15:12.42 | Twiun | HCl: we've been trying without success to find someone to do so |
| 15:12.47 | HCl | i see |
| 15:12.54 | fdask | what about 2.4.18 |
| 15:12.59 | HCl | what work has to be done exactly? |
| 15:13.05 | Twiun | .18 is actually more work than .21 |
| 15:13.13 | fdask | :[ |
| 15:13.16 | HCl | fdask: george built a 2.4.18 for the zaurus.. but it stalled after a while |
| 15:13.20 | fdask | 2.6.x? |
| 15:13.23 | fdask | :) |
| 15:13.36 | Twiun | fdask: kergoth had an experimental one I think |
| 15:13.39 | HCl | Twiun: im only interested in sdmmc support really, cause thats where most of my filesystem resides |
| 15:13.55 | HCl | of 2.6? o.o |
| 15:14.08 | Twiun | HCl: don't know the status of that - I think someone was porting the handhelds.org sdmmc stuff |
| 15:14.27 | Twiun | HCl: I might be mistaken about the 2.6 or maybe he was experimenting with in on a desktop ;) |
| 15:14.55 | HCl | heh ;p |
| 15:15.22 | HCl | well.. i suppose i can try a kernel upgrade without having to reflash the entire thing.. |
| 15:15.23 | Twiun | I'm out of the loop a lot now that I keep regular business hours |
| 15:15.34 | HCl | all i want is a kernel above 2.4.12 on the zaurus |
| 15:15.46 | Twiun | ahhh, but updating your kernel wihtout updating your modules is going to be painful |
| 15:15.48 | HCl | and opie 1.0 |
| 15:16.04 | HCl | well.. i'll have to manage.. i just want my zaurus set up right for once |
| 15:16.20 | Twiun | How's your gentoo system? |
| 15:18.00 | HCl | my laptop got fucked over... |
| 15:18.04 | HCl | its kind of working |
| 15:18.15 | HCl | but the moment i'll do an emerge, it'll crash horribly |
| 15:18.21 | HCl | im going to have to reinstall |
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| 15:36.13 | treke | mornin Twiun |
| 15:44.46 | Twiun | hey treke |
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| 16:32.14 | kergoth | hmm, policy question |
| 16:32.23 | chouimat|away | ? |
| 16:32.53 | kergoth | thinking for {pre,post}{inst,rm} scripts, attempt to run them at build time with D set to the path to the rootfs to operate on (ala ipk's offline root var), and if the script execution fails, mark it as being one we should execute at first boot time |
| 16:33.24 | kergoth | i.e. for a script that needs to call an arm binary and cant handle offline root -> if [ -z "${D}" ]; then exit 2; fi |
| 16:34.47 | treke | kergoth: Can you be guaranteed that a script that needs an arm binary will cause an error condition in the script? |
| 16:34.58 | kergoth | treke: thats the policy decision. |
| 16:35.14 | kergoth | treke: if we decide now that if you use an arm binary, you force an exit with error if ${D} is non-empty |
| 16:35.44 | kergoth | obviously attempting to use the postinsts at build time would be configurable |
| 16:36.00 | kergoth | s/build time/oeinstall time/ |
| 16:36.19 | treke | hmmm |
| 16:36.38 | kergoth | nice thing is it would reduce the amount of first boot setup where not necessary |
| 16:36.55 | kergoth | leaving only things like ssh key generation left (though that particular case can be done in its startup script instead) |
| 16:37.29 | treke | yeah, we also have to rember to pay attention to dependencies though when we try doing this |
| 16:38.00 | treke | so we don't run package b and c's postinst scripts if they depend on package a and package a can't be run |
| 16:38.24 | kergoth | well, right now twiun's packages first boot script no longer follows deps, iirc |
| 16:38.30 | Twiun | yup |
| 16:38.43 | Twiun | that's the way the hh guys did it afaik |
| 16:38.44 | kergoth | since we have yet to see a single case where a dependent packages postinst causes failure in another packages postinst |
| 16:38.50 | kergoth | its possible, just quite unlikely |
| 16:39.07 | treke | oh we're ignoring depends again? |
| 16:39.16 | kergoth | for postinst execution, yeah |
| 16:39.16 | Twiun | we have been for some time |
| 16:39.31 | kergoth | reduced headaches trying to follow them in shell |
| 16:39.32 | kergoth | heh |
| 16:39.43 | Twiun | yeah, shell recursion is painful |
| 16:40.29 | kergoth | plus fork overhead is noticable on arm with lots of them.. look at a ./configure run on an arm machine for example |
| 16:40.33 | kergoth | heh |
| 16:41.25 | kergoth | treke: your boot floppy is a perfect example of why this would be nice |
| 16:41.35 | kergoth | treke: in that case, 'first boot' is silly |
| 16:41.37 | Twiun | I did get a working version that didn't use recursion... but it was still painfully slow |
| 16:41.41 | kergoth | i mean, what if i only ever use it once? |
| 16:41.44 | kergoth | or the floppy's read only? |
| 16:41.46 | kergoth | or .. |
| 16:41.47 | kergoth | heh |
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| 17:09.23 | kergoth | hey SuKoShi |
| 17:13.58 | SuKoShi | kergoth: hey :) |
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| 17:27.41 | kergoth | hey pb_ |
| 17:28.14 | treke | your pbness |
| 17:28.16 | pb_ | yo kergoth |
| 17:28.21 | pb_ | yo treke |
| 17:28.26 | kergoth | hows it goin? |
| 17:31.04 | pb_ | yeah, not bad. just another day at the cpu group grindstone. |
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| 18:11.11 | kergoth | god i hate it when packages leave out necessary build things |
| 18:11.16 | kergoth | jpeg has no configure.{in,ac} |
| 18:11.25 | kergoth | gpm has its m4 macros in aclocal.m4 only, not acinclude.m4 |
| 18:11.26 | kergoth | etc |
| 18:28.07 | kergoth | what the.. links' gpm test attempts to link to libfl even though the test c code doesnt use flex. |
| 18:29.23 | kergoth | oh, it needs libfl for javascript |
| 18:29.43 | kergoth | guess i'd better make the flex for target populate staging |
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| 19:20.11 | kergoth | treke: links 2.x crosscompiles now, with javascript, ssl, for FB |
| 19:20.18 | kergoth | :) |
| 19:24.26 | gb2 | links has javascript? |
| 19:24.28 | gb2 | weird |
| 19:24.38 | kergoth | links 2.x has graphical mode |
| 19:24.42 | kergoth | for framebuffer, x, etc |
| 19:24.43 | gb2 | ah |
| 19:25.06 | kergoth | its really quite nice |
| 19:25.21 | kergoth | configure.in:114: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_BIG_ENDIAN |
| 19:25.23 | kergoth | bah |
| 19:30.39 | kergoth | there we go |
| 19:32.15 | kergoth | nice, only samba and centericq left in nonworking |
| 19:32.48 | Harlekin | ? |
| 19:33.15 | kergoth | Harlekin: nonworking/ in the packages metadata repos contains .oe's of packages that dont build properly yet |
| 19:33.18 | kergoth | Harlekin: stuff thats in progress |
| 19:33.32 | madeddie | centericq is less useful now anyway |
| 19:33.37 | madeddie | doesn't work with msn anymore :( |
| 19:33.49 | kergoth | so fix it. |
| 19:33.56 | Harlekin | ah |
| 19:34.01 | kergoth | or rather, wait for gaim to fix it, then follow their lead |
| 19:34.05 | madeddie | hehe |
| 19:34.08 | madeddie | gaim works |
| 19:34.13 | kergoth | well there ya go |
| 19:34.14 | kergoth | :) |
| 19:34.15 | madeddie | i was already trying to import the new libs |
| 19:34.21 | madeddie | they are too different |
| 19:34.22 | kergoth | or wait for gaim's ncurses interface |
| 19:34.24 | kergoth | cause thatll be spiffy |
| 19:34.31 | madeddie | need to recode large parts of centericq for 'm to work |
| 19:34.33 | madeddie | ah |
| 19:34.35 | madeddie | yes, that's be kewl |
| 19:34.39 | madeddie | 'd |
| 19:34.56 | kergoth | centericq is going to need quite a bit of conversion work to bring it up to current autotools versions |
| 19:34.59 | madeddie | anyway, i'm trying to get centericq to work again, but it's code is a bit of a mess |
| 19:35.01 | kergoth | hard to say whether its worth it |
| 19:35.34 | madeddie | probably not, especially if gaim's ncurses interface is coming soon |
| 19:35.52 | kergoth | 'soon' is a relative term |
| 19:35.54 | kergoth | :) |
| 19:35.57 | madeddie | i'll see what's happening on the centericq mailinglist, it's been very quiet lately |
| 19:36.00 | madeddie | hehe, true |
| 19:36.22 | kergoth | samba's going to be a pain |
| 19:36.25 | madeddie | at the moment i'm actually running a windows version on my second desktop, and it runs M$ msn for the moment |
| 19:36.28 | madeddie | samba is huge |
| 19:36.32 | kergoth | just because it has like 128 of its own macros |
| 19:36.34 | kergoth | at least |
| 19:36.41 | kergoth | most of which can be provided via the cache, which is good |
| 19:36.47 | kergoth | but still a pain to work out what ones are needed |
| 19:37.01 | madeddie | well, you got my respect already :) |
| 19:37.10 | madeddie | couldn't have figured out half the solutions you did :) |
| 19:37.24 | kergoth | i feel like i'm wasting room in my brain with build cruft |
| 19:38.06 | madeddie | if only it was possible to move some of your braincontent to cd or dvd, or tape even :) |
| 19:38.15 | kergoth | hehe. thatd be handy |
| 19:38.23 | kergoth | store it for only when you need it |
| 19:38.37 | kergoth | i should add tslib support to gpm |
| 19:38.43 | kergoth | so you can copy & paste in console on your c7x0 |
| 19:38.48 | madeddie | yeah and then lose the on that holds your manners or sexual prowess, that'd suck |
| 19:39.02 | madeddie | on==one |
| 19:39.09 | kergoth | course we'd need to bind a key+tap to the right click |
| 19:39.45 | madeddie | i've yet to even look at c7x0 code, just compiled my first collie kernel, was hard enough :) |
| 19:39.59 | kergoth | avoid lineo kernel code if you value your sanity |
| 19:40.10 | madeddie | hehehe |
| 19:40.15 | gb2 | kergoth: you can trigger paste with a keystroke on the linux console |
| 19:40.21 | gb2 | i used to have F11 be paste |
| 19:40.33 | kergoth | gb2: ah, was hoping itd be that easy |
| 19:40.35 | gb2 | i don't remember why i used F11 and not some other key |
| 19:40.44 | kergoth | so just need to get the tslib input working |
| 19:40.46 | kergoth | spiffy |
| 19:41.36 | madeddie | i just compiled a standard rmk kernel source package, with only some changes in the bluetooth code |
| 19:42.13 | madeddie | it's not working yet though, so i've got some work ahead of me :) |
| 19:42.13 | kergoth | hmm |
| 19:42.20 | kergoth | a stock rmk kernel wont boot on much. |
| 19:42.25 | madeddie | hehe |
| 19:42.25 | kergoth | deifnately not on any zaurus |
| 19:42.30 | kergoth | since lineo never works with the community |
| 19:42.33 | madeddie | indeed |
| 19:42.43 | kergoth | never requests proper machine numbers from the machine registry, never pushes patches upstream |
| 19:42.46 | kergoth | its just sad |
| 19:43.08 | kergoth | gb2: going to add a new oeclass for use in .oe's that are _within_ the upstream sources |
| 19:43.12 | kergoth | S=. |
| 19:43.21 | kergoth | do_clean overriden to oe_runmake clean in addition to wiping tmp |
| 19:43.26 | kergoth | any ideas on what to call it? |
| 19:43.59 | gb2 | hrm |
| 19:44.16 | gb2 | internal? |
| 19:44.28 | kergoth | hmm, might work |
| 19:44.33 | kergoth | cant think of anything that isnt in some way ambiguous |
| 19:44.42 | gb2 | so you'd have the oe for those in the package repo being: "inherit internal\nSRC_URI=..." |
| 19:44.44 | gb2 | and that's it |
| 19:44.44 | gb2 | ? |
| 19:44.52 | kergoth | since most people wont see the immediate difference between the use of OE in an upstream fashion, vs higher level |
| 19:44.55 | kergoth | yeah |
| 19:45.02 | kergoth | then |
| 19:45.09 | kergoth | you have to figure out how to include the .oe from inside the tarball |
| 19:45.12 | kergoth | i havent worked that out yet :) |
| 19:45.24 | gb2 | similar to how rpmbuild -ta works |
| 19:45.39 | gb2 | it extracts just the .spec from the tarball |
| 19:45.43 | kergoth | yeah |
| 19:45.54 | kergoth | but we already extract in do_unpack, but that doesnt happen at parse time |
| 19:45.57 | kergoth | just thinking implementation-wise |
| 19:45.57 | gb2 | tmp/oe/ |
| 19:46.18 | gb2 | yeah, it's a hoop to jump through |
| 19:46.18 | kergoth | or, we just call another oebuild instance |
| 19:46.31 | kergoth | but then we dont have access to the upstream metadata within oebuild showdata on the high level .oe |
| 19:46.38 | kergoth | which may or may not be an issue |
| 19:46.51 | kergoth | plus the stamps would be hokey |
| 19:46.58 | kergoth | all stepping all over each toher |
| 19:46.59 | kergoth | heh |
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| 19:49.36 | kergoth | treke: want to add gnutls to OE for me? |
| 19:54.31 | *** join/#openembedded tboc (thorsten@pD9EAD225.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:05.55 | gb2 | kergoth: dependency resolution could be an issue |
| 20:06.22 | kergoth | regarding upstream oe's being used from a higher level? |
| 20:06.23 | kergoth | yeah |
| 20:06.24 | gb2 | kergoth: perhaps conditionally allowing fetch of upstream source |
| 20:06.29 | kergoth | we really need to do it with include |
| 20:06.37 | gb2 | prior to data expansion |
| 20:06.43 | kergoth | hmm |
| 20:06.56 | kergoth | 'fetch blahblah' command, that occurs immediately? |
| 20:07.05 | gb2 | something like that |
| 20:07.21 | gb2 | it might be nice to prefetch stuff too |
| 20:07.32 | gb2 | so you could be fetching stuff while other stuff builds |
| 20:07.49 | kergoth | thats an idea |
| 20:08.03 | kergoth | we'd need to exert complete control over interdependency amongst packages |
| 20:08.16 | kergoth | i.e. i need his stage to configure |
| 20:08.26 | gb2 | yeah |
| 20:08.53 | gb2 | oefetchd & |
| 20:09.17 | kergoth | well, itd be a part of oemake |
| 20:09.26 | kergoth | oemake already needs the ability to run multiple builds at once optionally |
| 20:09.35 | kergoth | this is just an extension of that, making interdependency more granular |
| 20:09.41 | gb2 | actually.. a fetchdaemon which creates a socket in $DL_DIR wouldn't be all that bad an idea |
| 20:10.07 | kergoth | so when we attempt to grab the source, it figures out who provides it and grabs it from upstream? |
| 20:10.14 | kergoth | or..? |
| 20:11.01 | kergoth | almost done with centericq |
| 20:11.09 | kergoth | not converting it completely, just fixing that which prevents the build |
| 20:11.10 | kergoth | for now |
| 20:11.11 | kergoth | heh |
| 20:11.13 | gb2 | the fetch daemon talks to oemake |
| 20:11.32 | gb2 | and downloads stuff in the background if it's not commanded to do anything else by oemake |
| 20:11.43 | kergoth | yeah, generally autobuild daemon |
| 20:11.46 | kergoth | controllable via xml/rpc |
| 20:11.49 | kergoth | its in doc/TODO |
| 20:11.50 | kergoth | :) |
| 20:11.52 | gb2 | heh |
| 20:11.52 | kergoth | brb |
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| 20:34.21 | kergoth | hm, i think i might work on OE stuff this weekend some |
| 20:34.53 | lpotter | thats inconceivable! |
| 20:35.38 | treke | take a break from OE and write a drinklist for opie |
| 20:36.10 | lpotter | crap. its raining and I forgot my rain jacket at work |
| 20:36.18 | treke | rain jacket? |
| 20:36.26 | treke | You arent going to melt |
| 20:36.28 | lpotter | rain coat |
| 20:36.32 | lpotter | I know |
| 20:36.46 | lpotter | but my tshirt and my feet will get wet |
| 20:37.45 | treke | shoes are good |
| 20:37.57 | treke | though I must say, pants do suck |
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| 20:41.03 | lpotter | http://mirror.bom.gov.au/products/IDR503.shtml#image |
| 20:41.12 | lpotter | looks like its mostly over |
| 20:41.16 | lpotter | for me |
| 20:45.51 | gb2 | http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12145 |
| 20:50.00 | prpplague | gb2: lovely |
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| 21:02.26 | kergoth | i hate it when builds just seemingly decide to spontaniously combust |
| 21:02.28 | kergoth | for no apparent reason |
| 21:03.51 | kergoth | ibot: thursday |
| 21:03.53 | | Thursday sucks, because it isnt friday (See friday). |
| 21:06.39 | *** join/#openembedded prpplague (~billybob@12.148.134.14) |
| 21:07.54 | ljp | but it is friday |
| 21:08.32 | treke | kergoth: http://cr.yp.to/compatibility.html |
| 21:08.46 | treke | this is why package maintainers shouldn't decide all packaging issues |
| 21:10.01 | kergoth | indeed |
| 21:10.20 | *** join/#openembedded andersee (~andersee@codepoet.org) |
| 21:11.07 | kergoth | ugh, bash needs hefty changes to adapt to new autotools |
| 21:11.14 | kergoth | ton of autoheader var templates |
| 21:15.18 | ToyKeeper | Heh. |
| 21:16.37 | Neo|Work | because it's dumb? :-) |
| 21:17.06 | gb2 | most distros follow a lot of it |
| 21:17.20 | ToyKeeper | That page argues for each package the same across distros, which is good... but only solves half the problem. |
| 21:17.50 | ToyKeeper | The packages need to try to work in the same ways as other packages, too. |
| 21:18.13 | treke | ToyKeeper: The page argues for packages being the same across os's even if it's at the expense of being the same within an os |
| 21:18.20 | ToyKeeper | Oddball interfaces are fine so long as there's an equivalent standard interface too. :) |
| 21:19.06 | *** mode/#openembedded [+o TheMasterMind1] by ChanServ |
| 21:19.21 | ToyKeeper | I kinda like having all config in /etc, all services controlled from /etc/init.d/, and so on... |
| 21:26.13 | Neo|Work | of course for example gentoo uses a different init system |
| 21:26.43 | ToyKeeper | Yup. |
| 21:26.56 | ljp | are there sd drivers for c750 and c760? |
| 21:26.59 | ToyKeeper | I'm not sure what was wrong with the sysvinit system. |
| 21:27.13 | kergoth | need(8) based inits give you a few benefits |
| 21:27.25 | kergoth | first, it can run multiple scripts simultaniously at boot time, cutting the bootup time by a fair bit |
| 21:27.53 | ToyKeeper | You could just "mv S99xdm -> S20xdm" too. :) |
| 21:28.13 | kergoth | well, sysvinit limits you |
| 21:28.18 | kergoth | by enforcing old style runlevels |
| 21:28.22 | ToyKeeper | Yeah. |
| 21:28.27 | kergoth | most need based inits allow any arbitrary boot profile |
| 21:28.28 | kergoth | which is spiffy |
| 21:28.44 | ToyKeeper | I just haven't gentooed yet. |
| 21:28.45 | kergoth | course the only need based inits i know of are gentoo's and simpleinit |
| 21:28.55 | kergoth | and gentoo just plops a madness of shell and python on top of sysvinit! |
| 21:28.59 | kergoth | its sysvinit underneith |
| 21:29.02 | kergoth | horrible, horrible hack |
| 21:29.48 | ToyKeeper | Anyhoo, er, how's Texas? |
| 21:30.08 | kergoth | after being baked this summer, i'm thoroughly enjoying it beign october and not freezing |
| 21:30.11 | kergoth | :) |
| 21:30.14 | ToyKeeper | I had to hide in the cover of air-conditioned buildings last time I was there. |
| 21:30.29 | ToyKeeper | It was still hot in january... :( |
| 21:30.40 | kergoth | pb_: whats the name of the repos that has libiberty, bfd, etc in one place again? |
| 21:30.43 | kergoth | pb_: forgot |
| 21:33.11 | treke | ToyKeeper: Moving xdm up only helps if you don't need any of the other stuff to work :) |
| 21:33.33 | pb_ | kergoth: uberbaum |
| 21:33.44 | pb_ | or src if you don't want gcc |
| 21:33.48 | kergoth | indeed, need(8) based inits give you a means of exerting dependency, so youd ont easily get into an unusable situation |
| 21:33.54 | kergoth | pb_: ah, thanks |
| 21:33.54 | ljp | hmm hmm.. anyone know if c650 and c760 have sd? |
| 21:34.00 | ljp | c750 |
| 21:34.13 | treke | ljp: Uhm. No, sharp decided not to put sd in their new models |
| 21:34.31 | kergoth | ~fishslap ljp |
| 21:34.33 | | ACTION slaps ljp up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 21:34.33 | ljp | really? |
| 21:34.48 | ljp | I meant sd DRIVERS |
| 21:35.02 | treke | ~fishslap ljp |
| 21:35.08 | | ACTION slaps ljp up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 21:35.08 | ljp | as in buildroot images can work |
| 21:35.34 | kergoth | ljp: ls packages/sdmmc/ |
| 21:36.10 | ToyKeeper | Hmm. |
| 21:36.17 | ToyKeeper | I should upgrade, now that I have time. |
| 21:37.39 | ljp | I think I farked my gentoo install with emerge glic binutils |
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| 21:40.38 | ToyKeeper | Is there such a thing as decaf espresso? |
| 21:40.49 | ljp | yes |
| 21:40.59 | kergoth | doesnt that defeat the point? :) |
| 21:41.06 | ljp | I think so |
| 21:41.13 | ToyKeeper | Why would they make such a thing? |
| 21:41.23 | kergoth | exactly |
| 21:41.26 | ljp | I knew someone that always had decaf cappacinos |
| 21:41.40 | ljp | spelling bad |
| 21:45.39 | gb2 | there is decaf espresso |
| 21:46.07 | gb2 | all things in the world have opposites |
| 21:46.10 | gb2 | protons |
| 21:46.12 | gb2 | antiprotons |
| 21:46.14 | gb2 | same thing. |
| 21:46.34 | treke | zaurus |
| 21:46.40 | treke | ipaq |
| 21:46.46 | kergoth | i dont think it counts as an antiespresso unless it makes you tired |
| 21:46.56 | pb_ | heh |
| 21:47.18 | treke | all you addicts |
| 21:47.33 | ToyKeeper | I know a guy who gets tired from caffeine. |
| 21:47.51 | ToyKeeper | But it's not exactly "antiespresso"... he's just screwed up. |
| 21:48.13 | kergoth | treke: dosfstools fails due to the debian source, want to take care of it? |
| 21:48.21 | ljp | he just thinks it makes him tired |
| 21:49.17 | treke | hmmm |
| 21:49.21 | treke | why am I getting it from debian |
| 21:49.38 | kergoth | hell if i know |
| 21:50.05 | kergoth | damnit, autoupdate explodes things. guess i should run it once and build a patch from its changes isntead of calling it in the autotools class |
| 21:50.11 | ToyKeeper | 'cause fam/oz are kinda debian-based? |
| 21:50.31 | kergoth | ToyKeeper: well, we made a decision to not rely on their sources unless we absolutely have to (i.e. no upstream) |
| 21:50.36 | kergoth | so thats why its an oddity |
| 21:50.47 | treke | ah yeas, now I remember |
| 21:50.57 | ToyKeeper | Okay. Haven't followed oz/oe for months. Too busy with other work. |
| 21:53.00 | kergoth | 85 packages in the oe metadata repos that use autotools |
| 21:53.05 | kergoth | wonder what percentage need updating |
| 21:53.06 | TheMasterMind1 | kergoth: joy |
| 21:53.08 | kergoth | probably most |
| 21:53.11 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:54.06 | treke | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:54.10 | treke | <ToyKeeper> But it's not exactly "antiespresso"... he's just screwed up. |
| 21:54.12 | treke | <kergoth> treke: dosfstools fails due to the debian source, want to take care of it? |
| 21:54.15 | treke | <ljp> he just thinks it makes him tired |
| 21:54.18 | treke | <treke> hmmm |
| 21:54.20 | treke | <treke> why am I getting it from debian |
| 21:54.23 | treke | <kergoth> hell if i know |
| 21:54.25 | treke | <kergoth> damnit, autoupdate explodes things. guess i should run it once and build a patch from its changes isntead of calling it in the autotools class |
| 21:54.28 | treke | <ToyKeeper> 'cause fam/oz are kinda debian-based? |
| 21:54.31 | treke | <kergoth> ToyKeeper: well, we made a decision to not rely on their sources unless we absolutely have to (i.e. no upstream) |
| 21:54.31 | pb_ | treke: thanks for the recap |
| 21:54.34 | treke | <kergoth> so thats why its an oddity |
| 21:54.36 | treke | <treke> ah yeas, now I remember |
| 21:54.39 | treke | <ToyKeeper> Okay. Haven't followed oz/oe for months. Too busy with other work. |
| 21:54.42 | treke | ftp://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/Linux/LOCAL/dosfstools <-- what I meant to paste |
| 21:54.52 | treke | ~lart logitech for their new trackball style |
| 21:56.15 | treke | ljp: my finger is too big for the mouse :) |
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| 21:58.37 | ljp | sico |
| 22:01.04 | Neo|Work | seen the cool bluetooth kbd / mouse combo they have? |
| 22:01.27 | Neo|Work | it comes with a stand-alone (connectable I suppose} numeric keyboard with a little display on it (works like a calculator for example) |
| 22:01.47 | kergoth | i'd love a bt mouse and keyboard |
| 22:01.51 | kergoth | wonder how tactile the keyboard is |
| 22:01.54 | kergoth | i'm really picky about keyboards |
| 22:01.55 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:02.54 | ToyKeeper | Tried a happy hacker? |
| 22:03.51 | killefiz | happy hacking keyboards rock |
| 22:04.09 | killefiz | way to expensive but great to type on |
| 22:04.12 | ToyKeeper | I mostly replaced my old lexmark select-ease (early split keyboard, no longer made) with a black HH2 USB. |
| 22:04.13 | kergoth | i never bought one since nobody local seemed to carry them, and i'd hate ordering a keyboard without typing on it first |
| 22:04.17 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:04.23 | treke | does happy hacker have a wireless one yet |
| 22:04.39 | killefiz | no |
| 22:04.49 | TheMasterMind1 | hrm |
| 22:04.49 | treke | darn |
| 22:04.52 | TheMasterMind1 | no sysreq key |
| 22:04.52 | treke | I like wireless |
| 22:04.58 | killefiz | it seems to me that happy hacking is more or less dead .. no new products in years |
| 22:05.10 | kergoth | its a keyboard. how many new products do you need? |
| 22:05.18 | treke | hehe, well I think that's kind of the point |
| 22:05.32 | treke | the whole idea is to not put new crap on it :) |
| 22:05.41 | killefiz | kergoth: well - wireless for those who wan't it |
| 22:05.51 | killefiz | (i hate wireless mice/keyboards) |
| 22:06.01 | kergoth | yeah, thats about it though |
| 22:06.02 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:06.03 | ToyKeeper | It's nice having a nice-feeling, small keyboard that also acts as a USB hub. |
| 22:06.30 | Neo|Work | it's only $150 or so |
| 22:06.33 | Neo|Work | sorry, $250 |
| 22:06.46 | ToyKeeper | And it was a lot cheaper than the lexmark I was using. (never did get around to mounting the lexmark's halves hanging from either side of my chair) |
| 22:06.53 | Neo|Work | http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm?page=products/details&CRID=486&CONTENTID=7321&countryid=19&languageid=1 |
| 22:06.59 | treke | I can see how wireless could be too small a market for them |
| 22:07.13 | kergoth | a bt hh would be nice |
| 22:07.41 | TheMasterMind1 | thats cool.. prolly work with like a zaurus and stuff too cuz its bt no? |
| 22:07.48 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: yeah |
| 22:07.52 | Neo|Work | well, depends |
| 22:07.58 | pb_ | ought to, though I don't think there's a full bt-hid driver yet. |
| 22:08.02 | treke | TheMasterMind1: Erm, if your zaurus had bluetooth :) |
| 22:08.08 | Neo|Work | it's connected via USB but if it works with some other bt receiver they it might |
| 22:08.12 | TheMasterMind1 | treke: well, with a bt cf card |
| 22:08.39 | Neo|Work | cool thing is that the numerical keyboard display can be used to, well, display stuff |
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| 22:08.51 | Neo|Work | dunno if it's easy to do for users tho |
| 22:10.22 | pb_ | killefiz: yah, it's a pain when the batteries in my mouse die. I wish someone made a wireless mouse with rechargeable batteries and an inductive charger. |
| 22:11.01 | killefiz | pb_: and embed the charger in you mouse mat? |
| 22:11.09 | pb_ | yeah, that'd be the idea |
| 22:11.46 | ToyKeeper | Uh, they make wireless mice with rechargable batteries. |
| 22:11.46 | killefiz | i have a logitech wireless mouse now. It comes with a docking station |
| 22:12.05 | ljp | I have a generic wired mouse |
| 22:12.06 | ToyKeeper | They even make "3D" ones which work in mid-air. |
| 22:12.15 | kergoth | messages on debian-handheld |
| 22:12.17 | killefiz | that is how i found out that i hate wireless mice ... |
| 22:12.17 | kergoth | amazing |
| 22:12.44 | pb_ | ToyKeeper: right, but all the ones I've seen have to be docked in their mouse house to charge. |
| 22:12.47 | treke | and even more amazing, it's about debian on a handheld |
| 22:12.52 | ToyKeeper | I usually use a usb cirque touchpad, or my notebook's touchpad. |
| 22:14.02 | ljp | yaahoooo today is friday! |
| 22:14.04 | ToyKeeper | touchpads seem much more hand-friendly, and sufficient for most uses (gimp and blender excepted)... |
| 22:14.08 | *** join/#openembedded W8TVI (~root@3639244938.mi.dial.hexcom.net) |
| 22:14.11 | tronical | kergoth: messages on d-handheld? must be spam ;-) |
| 22:14.23 | pb_ | tronical: no, just some dude saying how much he hates openzaurus |
| 22:14.25 | treke | trackballs > * |
| 22:14.28 | tronical | lol |
| 22:14.38 | ToyKeeper | ljp: today is thursday, unless you just passed midnight... |
| 22:15.01 | ljp | oh, I am quite sure its friday |
| 22:15.02 | kergoth | ToyKeeper: ljp is in AU |
| 22:15.07 | pb_ | ToyKeeper: ljp is our man in the future. |
| 22:15.11 | ToyKeeper | Well, that would explain it. :) |
| 22:15.14 | ToyKeeper | I was guessing NZ. |
| 22:15.18 | pb_ | it's handy having him there, because he can tell us what day it will be tomorrow. |
| 22:15.25 | ljp | hehee |
| 22:15.39 | ToyKeeper | I'd love to move to NZ. |
| 22:15.44 | ljp | I can even tell you what the weather will be like tomorrow |
| 22:15.44 | ToyKeeper | I wouldn't love to move to Texas. |
| 22:15.48 | treke | Yes, I thought tomorrow was sunday, but ljp cleared it right up |
| 22:15.56 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 22:16.00 | TheMasterMind1 | thanks ljp |
| 22:16.15 | kergoth | ljp: will tomorrow suck? |
| 22:16.22 | ljp | ya. rain |
| 22:16.31 | treke | kergoth: ibot can tell you that |
| 22:16.34 | treke | ibot, friday? |
| 22:16.36 | | Friday sucks, because it should be the weekend, but you're stuck working anyway. |
| 22:16.37 | ljp | and you'll forget your raincoat and have to ride to work |
| 22:17.26 | Neo|Work | Texas isn't bad |
| 22:17.35 | treke | shot anyone yet? |
| 22:17.36 | kergoth | i'm loving the weather in tx right now |
| 22:17.39 | Neo|Work | can' |
| 22:17.43 | Neo|Work | can't say I have |
| 22:17.50 | Neo|Work | kergoth: it's been a bit cold lately I think |
| 22:18.04 | kergoth | cold.. hah! |
| 22:18.05 | kergoth | :) |
| 22:18.17 | treke | obviously Neo|Work is from the west coast |
| 22:18.21 | treke | and kergoth is from the midwest |
| 22:18.49 | Neo|Work | well, technically I'm from Sweden |
| 22:19.02 | treke | the west coast of sweden? |
| 22:19.13 | ljp | is there a lib that wep needs to work? |
| 22:19.30 | kergoth | only the same lib you need to configure wifi at all |
| 22:19.32 | ljp | heh west coast of sweden is norway |
| 22:20.32 | ljp | hmm. cause on my qtopia images wep doesnt work |
| 22:20.41 | ljp | even from console |
| 22:20.43 | kergoth | does it work if you set it with iwconfig? |
| 22:20.45 | kergoth | ah |
| 22:20.49 | kergoth | are you using ascii or hex? |
| 22:21.13 | ljp | hmm |
| 22:21.21 | ljp | ascii |
| 22:21.22 | kergoth | if you use ascii, you must prefix with s: |
| 22:21.27 | kergoth | iwconfig wlan0 key s:blahblah |
| 22:21.31 | kergoth | default is hex |
| 22:22.46 | ljp | can wireless-tools use a key gen? |
| 22:24.22 | kergoth | you generate the key with a key gen and pass it to iwconfig |
| 22:24.28 | kergoth | it doesnt need support for such a thing directly |
| 22:28.44 | Neo|Work | treke: nope, mid-south center rather |
| 22:30.05 | treke | kergoth: Apparently you may not be an asshole, but a visionary software developer |
| 22:30.17 | kergoth | errrr |
| 22:30.18 | kergoth | what? |
| 22:30.44 | pb_ | news just in, eh? |
| 22:30.48 | treke | from oz-users |
| 22:31.03 | ljp | he's got that bassakwards |
| 22:31.05 | treke | "Tom Lord is very careful about how the project develops. ... He can be abrasive - but most visionary software developers are TBH. |
| 22:31.13 | TheMasterMind1 | TBH? |
| 22:31.56 | _Psycho | The Burning Hell ? |
| 22:45.03 | kergoth | NOTE: Running autoconf |
| 22:45.03 | kergoth | build/apr_common.m4:752: /usr/bin/m4: ERROR: Recursion limit of 1024 exceeded, use -L<N> to change it |
| 22:45.06 | kergoth | autom4te: /usr/bin/m4 failed with exit status: 1 |
| 22:45.09 | kergoth | WARNING: autoconf execution failed. |
| 22:45.11 | kergoth | hmmm. |
| 22:46.00 | pb_ | ah, that old problem |
| 22:47.25 | pb_ | I remember the debian builds of gcc used to be blighted by that at one time. I never did figure out what caused it. |
| 22:47.47 | pb_ | iirc, we made it go away by installing different versions of autoconf at random. |
| 22:47.57 | kergoth | hmmmm |
| 22:50.52 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 22:50.58 | TheMasterMind1 | sounds like autoconf alright |
| 22:51.14 | kergoth | heh, slowing working through all the autoconf builds |
| 22:51.19 | kergoth | using autoupdate for the initial pass |
| 22:51.24 | kergoth | then manually fixing anything it misses |
| 22:51.32 | *** join/#openembedded qip|Virus|da (~Virus@pD9524DEA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:08.25 | *** join/#openembedded BleedingE (whocares@saus04.usc.es) |
| 23:21.37 | *** join/#openembedded bipolar (~bflong@ctt187063.ceinetworks.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 23:22.42 | *** join/#openembedded ||ugh (~hugh@216.240.42.209) |
| 23:22.51 | *** join/#openembedded sieve (~sieve@12.148.134.14) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 23:24.18 | *** join/#openembedded ToyKeeper (vdnpqb@12-252-37-70.client.attbi.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 23:43.26 | *** join/#openembedded W8TVI (~root@3639245756.mi.dial.hexcom.net) |
| 23:44.29 | kergoth | gosh this is time consuming |
| 23:44.54 | kergoth | and this is only the autoupdate piece, then theres the manual fixing |
| 23:44.57 | kergoth | ah well |
| 23:50.25 | treke | treke.net/rt is back up. Waiting for dns to propogate for the subdomain |
| 23:51.08 | TheMasterMind1 | rt? |
| 23:52.09 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: request tracker |
| 23:52.15 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: the bug/task tracking system we'll be using |
| 23:52.39 | TheMasterMind1 | cool |
| 23:56.41 | treke | the server is performing like crap, so I'll try tunning apache later on |
| 23:57.19 | treke | kergoth: you don't happen to remember the root password, do you? |
| 23:58.10 | kergoth | not offhand |