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| 03:21.12 | Speedy2 | yo |
| 03:21.20 | Speedy2 | You nkow what's a great website? www.spamradio.com . |
| 03:22.25 | mithro-uni | do i have to do a bk -r co -q ? |
| 03:22.36 | mithro-uni | i thought tou didn't have to that anymore? |
| 03:23.32 | ljp | I think so |
| 03:23.59 | Speedy2 | Hey ljp. |
| 03:24.14 | kergoth | you dont have to do a bk get/co/edit when you check files in or create changesets |
| 03:24.18 | kergoth | you _do_ have to when doing a bk pull |
| 03:24.24 | mithro-uni | it doesn't seem to be doing much |
| 03:24.31 | mithro-uni | kergoth: ahh okay :) |
| 03:24.57 | ljp | hey speedy |
| 03:25.16 | mithro-uni | -q means quiet? -- it appears so |
| 03:25.39 | kergoth | yep |
| 03:25.48 | mithro-uni | 5 |
| 03:25.56 | kergoth | -r on any command is to descend through the entire repos instead of the current dir |
| 03:26.50 | Speedy2 | ljp: Check out spamradio.com . I'm laughing pretty hard. |
| 03:26.58 | W8TVI | heh |
| 03:29.41 | mithro-uni | if the co didn't report any errors then it's safe to assume it managed to resolve the edits? |
| 03:30.23 | W8TVI | change your life! |
| 03:31.42 | kergoth | mithro-uni: 'resolve'? |
| 03:31.49 | kergoth | mithro-uni: all co does is checks files out of the repository |
| 03:32.01 | kergoth | mithro-uni: for when a pull adds a new file, so it hasnt yet been checked out |
| 03:32.05 | kergoth | for example. |
| 03:33.09 | ljp | Speedy2: thats twisted |
| 03:33.29 | Speedy2 | ljp: It's grows on your. |
| 03:33.34 | Speedy2 | err grows on you. |
| 03:33.42 | Speedy2 | I've been listening to it for 40 minutes. |
| 03:34.24 | W8TVI | heh |
| 03:42.43 | W8TVI | I googled for it, but couldn't find any... anyone seen a website that shows disassembly instructions for the sl-5500? |
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| 06:27.40 | andersee | W8TVI: Just use "objdump -d". ;-) |
| 06:34.03 | W8TVI | andersee: what? |
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| 06:40.47 | andersee | W8TVI: use objump's builtin disassembler. Should make disassembling your sl-5500 easy. |
| 06:40.56 | W8TVI | :P |
| 06:40.58 | andersee | ;-) |
| 06:41.20 | W8TVI | it wont work on mine... can't get it to power up... so that wont work ;) |
| 06:45.11 | W8TVI | that way I can store lots more reference manuals |
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| 06:54.03 | andersee | W8TVI: get a dremel and install a microdrive slot |
| 06:54.24 | W8TVI | it wont fit in the CF slot? |
| 06:54.46 | W8TVI | theres more room than needed in the CF slot for Cf cards |
| 06:54.46 | andersee | W8TVI: do you already have a CF type II slot? |
| 06:55.21 | W8TVI | well... its bigger than my CF card and CF 802.11b card |
| 06:57.15 | W8TVI | people seem to think that the IBM microdrive will fit in the slot |
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| 07:01.22 | ljp | shove it real hard. it'll fit |
| 07:01.43 | W8TVI | the sl-5500 has a type II slot |
| 07:02.18 | andersee | W8TVI: I thought we were talking about the slot you were cutting for a brain upgrade? |
| 07:02.32 | W8TVI | lol |
| 07:02.52 | W8TVI | I didn't sleep well last night |
| 07:02.58 | andersee | W8TVI: hence the suggestion to use a dremel... |
| 07:03.07 | W8TVI | heavy rain, thunder |
| 07:04.01 | W8TVI | I've heard that the IBM Microdrive works just fine in the zaurus, but it makes alot of heat |
| 07:06.32 | andersee | W8TVI: I've got a microdrive. Stuck it on my sl5500 one day, and sure enough, it works. |
| 07:06.39 | W8TVI | cool |
| 07:06.49 | W8TVI | you use it for a camera? |
| 07:06.51 | andersee | W8TVI: but I've not really had a need to use it in there |
| 07:07.10 | andersee | W8TVI: nah. Was sent to me some time ago for some contract work. |
| 07:07.17 | W8TVI | ah |
| 07:07.28 | andersee | W8TVI: havn't really had a use for it since |
| 07:07.48 | W8TVI | I think that when I get my zaurus back up and running, I'm going to pick my self up one |
| 07:07.56 | W8TVI | $185.00 for a 1GB drive |
| 07:08.06 | andersee | thats what I have |
| 07:08.06 | W8TVI | what size is yours? |
| 07:08.10 | W8TVI | nm |
| 07:09.12 | ljp | isnt that kinda a personal question? |
| 07:09.36 | W8TVI | when I get back working again (or get my plastic back paid off) I might see if you want to get rid of it... |
| 07:13.15 | W8TVI | 256mb is just not enough to hold all my mp3s |
| 07:14.36 | W8TVI | hmmm... |
| 07:21.33 | andersee | W8TVI: IMHO, it is probably much better to store all your tunes on your server and run, i.e. shoutcast and stream them over 802.11b to your Z |
| 07:21.51 | W8TVI | doesn't help when your on the raod |
| 07:21.56 | W8TVI | road even |
| 07:22.17 | W8TVI | thats when I use the thing as an Mp3 player |
| 07:27.40 | W8TVI | well... night |
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| 07:55.11 | T` | anyone here familiar with linux on processors like MIPS or m68k series ? |
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| 10:15.42 | mithro-z | kergoth: you about? |
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| 10:31.20 | mithro-z- | anyone alive? |
| 10:32.29 | Twiun | yeah |
| 10:32.34 | Twiun | just about |
| 10:33.24 | mithro-z- | do you know much about the z kernel? |
| 10:33.34 | Twiun | very, very little |
| 10:35.09 | Twiun | what kernel version? 2.4.6? |
| 10:35.48 | mithro-z- | 2.4.18 i belive |
| 10:36.11 | Twiun | ah... looked in the sources for files ending in .map? |
| 10:36.12 | mithro-z- | just want to change the jap keys to ctl and alt |
| 10:38.10 | mithro-z- | ./drivers/char/corgi_keymap.map |
| 10:38.52 | Twiun | I think that's the file |
| 10:41.37 | TCMAN | good night |
| 10:45.13 | mithro-z- | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:51.12 | mithro-z- | any idea how to find out a keycode of a key? |
| 10:52.51 | Twiun | I think the console utils package has something that does that |
| 10:54.06 | mithro-z- | bblr |
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| 11:24.04 | Twiun | <joke>So, when is OZ/OE going to be supported on the Motorola A760 Linux Smartphone?</joke> |
| 11:24.18 | Twiun | http://theregister.co.uk/content/68/32468.html |
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| 11:55.26 | Harlekin | lo |
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| 12:36.51 | Masticator | who here knows a lot abouy mysql? |
| 12:38.26 | Harlekin | i just know that I ditched mysql a long time ago |
| 12:48.20 | lsmith | Masticator: what do you need to know? |
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| 12:54.23 | Masticator | well |
| 12:54.28 | Masticator | I have an application |
| 12:54.36 | Masticator | with a database |
| 12:54.47 | Masticator | and this morning I find out that a table is missing. |
| 12:54.55 | Masticator | like its not even zeroed out, its blank. |
| 12:55.00 | Masticator | when I try to do a rebuild |
| 12:55.07 | Masticator | I get file not found errors from mysql. |
| 12:55.21 | Masticator | other than going to the previous days backup, any alternatives |
| 12:55.38 | lsmith | hmm i am not much of an admin type .. |
| 12:55.47 | lsmith | there are tools that can help to replair a database |
| 12:56.01 | lsmith | repair even |
| 12:56.22 | lsmith | however this sounds more like someone simply deleted all the contents |
| 12:56.48 | Masticator | its a very large table, I wonder if it choked on backup |
| 12:56.55 | lsmith | sounds like you need to grab the last backup and teach your users not to drop the contents of their tables |
| 12:57.15 | Masticator | lol well nobody but the root could have dropped this table |
| 12:57.23 | Masticator | its manipulated by an application |
| 12:57.28 | lsmith | then slap yourself :-) |
| 12:57.41 | Masticator | well it happened when I was sleeping! |
| 12:57.53 | lsmith | what sort of an excuse is that! ;-) |
| 12:59.07 | lsmith | laters |
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| 13:19.12 | adrift2 | Hi Ben |
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| 13:38.56 | Masticator | table repair worked |
| 13:38.57 | Masticator | thank god |
| 13:39.14 | Masticator | damn mysql brain farts |
| 13:39.16 | adrift2 | sounded scary |
| 13:39.28 | Masticator | it was |
| 13:39.42 | Masticator | huge bulletin board site |
| 13:39.44 | Masticator | egullet.com |
| 13:39.51 | Masticator | sucker was down since 3am apparently |
| 13:40.18 | Masticator | wasnt a minor table too, it was a big one |
| 13:40.23 | adrift2 | tell me about your qtopia rewrite plans |
| 13:40.35 | Masticator | lol ask icefox |
| 13:40.39 | absentia | I oredered Kitchen Confidential ... yesterday. |
| 13:40.51 | adrift2 | icefox? |
| 13:40.53 | Masticator | absentia: you know he posts on eGullet, right |
| 13:41.18 | Masticator | adrift2: until I got money all the plans are just a long list of stuff |
| 13:41.33 | Masticator | right now I am concentrating on financing this operation |
| 13:41.46 | Masticator | hoping to make progress by labor day, mid septemberish |
| 13:42.04 | Masticator | gotta come up with a few million bucks first. |
| 13:42.26 | adrift2 | Masticator: i'm interested to know how you go |
| 13:42.27 | Masticator | absentia: he posts as user "bourdain" on egullet |
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| 13:42.41 | Masticator | adrift much of that is under discussion |
| 13:42.51 | adrift2 | just browsing egullet, funny article on eating dirt |
| 13:42.59 | Masticator | we havent done anything other than define a list of functions and projects |
| 13:43.03 | Masticator | and stuff to be fixed |
| 13:43.24 | adrift2 | Masticator: what about contributing to Opie or GPE? |
| 13:45.11 | icefox | hi Masticator |
| 13:45.23 | adrift2 | As far as I can tell, if you make it Qt based, if it is Qt/E, you pay runtimes to trolltech anyway, if you make it Qt/X11, to develop commercial apps, developers have to buy expensive Qt developer licenses. |
| 13:46.03 | adrift2 | If you contribute to GPE, then you make that project better and can get money for consultancy services |
| 13:46.08 | icefox | Hey what is the name of the registry type application for opie? |
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| 13:47.45 | icefox | http://www.killefiz.de/zaurus/showdetail.php?app=1276 <- nice z app haha |
| 13:49.34 | icefox | The opie download link doesn't show how to get the source... |
| 13:51.19 | mithro | The USAF has only ever lost three Global Hawks, says Northrop Grumman. The first was during the plane's development, when someone accidentally tested the self-destruct program. |
| 13:51.34 | mithro | :P |
| 13:51.47 | icefox | hey it works |
| 13:52.11 | icefox | conf-edit |
| 13:52.16 | icefox | bingo, found it |
| 13:52.46 | mithro | itsn't the Qt/E GPL? |
| 13:52.56 | icefox | wow, cvs snapshots are old... |
| 13:53.00 | icefox | http://opie.handhelds.org/feed/cvs.snapshots/ |
| 13:53.11 | adrift2 | mithro: yep |
| 13:53.17 | Masticator | adrift2: we are considering some of those things... not beyond negotiating with Trolltech either |
| 13:53.53 | adrift2 | mithro: but GPL library means only GPL apps, you couldn't have commercial apps with only GPL licensing |
| 13:54.03 | icefox | sure you can |
| 13:54.12 | adrift2 | Masticator: It has been done before. Mizi have a stack on Qt/E not using Qtopia |
| 13:54.20 | Masticator | yep |
| 13:54.22 | icefox | they are still under the gpl, but they are also commericial |
| 13:54.35 | adrift2 | icefox: sorry, wrong choice of words |
| 13:54.35 | Masticator | as to the Qt/E versus X11 thing, we havent made any decisions yet |
| 13:54.39 | mithro | Commercial apps don't have to be closed source no gpl :) |
| 13:54.49 | adrift2 | I meant you couldn't have closed source apps |
| 13:54.58 | icefox | ah, yah, of course |
| 13:55.01 | adrift2 | mithro: I known |
| 13:55.05 | adrift2 | sorry |
| 13:55.07 | mithro | so theKompany has a qt/e license? |
| 13:55.19 | Masticator | they have qt enterprise |
| 13:55.20 | adrift2 | I would guess they have the SDK license |
| 13:55.38 | Masticator | they can build for any qt platform |
| 13:55.40 | adrift2 | SDK license is cheaper, that is what I would have |
| 13:55.52 | adrift2 | Masticator: true |
| 13:56.08 | adrift2 | they have desktop apps too |
| 13:56.19 | Masticator | we have thought about ways around the devleoper license issue |
| 13:56.33 | adrift2 | Here's what Mizi have done: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6224826378.html |
| 13:56.43 | Masticator | one may be for us to buy several licenses, or have all the apps released by our company |
| 13:56.52 | Masticator | sort of like the way nintendo releases titles for their systems |
| 13:57.03 | icefox | where is conffedit in cvs? |
| 13:57.25 | adrift2 | http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT3664264688.html and another |
| 13:58.09 | Masticator | so if a commercial title is under development, we become responsible for the release of that title |
| 13:58.21 | adrift2 | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6770596476.html and one more |
| 13:58.22 | Masticator | thus having a close developer/manufacturer relationship |
| 13:58.46 | Masticator | it actually fits well within some of our plans to provide back end services for the OS |
| 13:59.21 | Masticator | but again, this is all pipe dream shit until there is money to fund this company |
| 13:59.34 | adrift2 | I guess |
| 13:59.46 | adrift2 | Qtopia has a bit of a head start |
| 13:59.54 | adrift2 | same with what Mizi are doing |
| 14:00.06 | Masticator | its actually much more real than a pipe dream, but I am not making any commitments until we have the funds in hand |
| 14:00.21 | Masticator | you can do anything with actual staff |
| 14:00.35 | Masticator | you would be surprised what people can pull off when they get paid |
| 14:00.37 | adrift2 | good staff |
| 14:00.58 | icefox | arg |
| 14:00.58 | adrift2 | I've worked with some ppl that do nothin productive |
| 14:01.12 | adrift2 | and still get paid ! |
| 14:01.26 | Masticator | lol, we wont be hiring slackers |
| 14:01.27 | icefox | where is confedit.... |
| 14:01.33 | Masticator | only the experts in the field |
| 14:01.37 | *** join/#openembedded prpplague (~billybob@12.148.134.9) |
| 14:01.39 | adrift2 | Masticator: did you get burnt by lineo? |
| 14:01.45 | icefox | <cough> |
| 14:01.47 | icefox | :-D |
| 14:01.48 | Masticator | I didnt work for lineo |
| 14:02.02 | icefox | adrift2: we worked for Sharp |
| 14:02.15 | adrift2 | they didn't not pay you did they? |
| 14:02.50 | icefox | adrift2: read http://www.csh.rit.edu/~benjamin/articles/bad_apples.php |
| 14:03.12 | Masticator | adrift2: what I'm saying is much of what is being done by Opie and Trolltech in regards to the development of qtopia is all spare time shit |
| 14:03.24 | Masticator | Qtopia is not a priority project for Trolltech |
| 14:03.25 | icefox | and yet them pimp it |
| 14:03.29 | icefox | them/they |
| 14:03.31 | Masticator | they dont have a ton of engineers on it |
| 14:04.22 | Masticator | trolltech is not a large organization |
| 14:04.39 | icefox | well they arn't small, but yah |
| 14:04.51 | adrift2 | about 10 developers work on it |
| 14:05.06 | Masticator | not full time though |
| 14:05.19 | adrift2 | only one is not fulltime |
| 14:05.40 | Masticator | if that is the case, that is a recent development |
| 14:05.48 | adrift2 | no |
| 14:06.00 | adrift2 | I think you are miss informed |
| 14:06.19 | Masticator | adrift2, you work for TT? |
| 14:06.28 | adrift2 | nod |
| 14:07.22 | adrift2 | it is true that perhaps only 50% of the time at work is spent hacking at code |
| 14:07.57 | adrift2 | rest is admin shit like email, support requests, bugs, testing and heaps of other stuff |
| 14:11.03 | mithro | adrift2: you wouldn't happen to know much about Corgi's kernel keymaps? :) |
| 14:11.18 | adrift2 | sorry, no |
| 14:11.29 | Masticator | mitro: email mitchy |
| 14:11.37 | Masticator | katayama.michita@sharp.co.jp |
| 14:11.51 | adrift2 | warwick might, he's in Oslo at the moment (more admin type stuff) and might be able to help you next week |
| 14:11.58 | mithro | adrift2: no prob :) worth asking though :) |
| 14:12.14 | mithro | i think kergoth will be able to answer my question |
| 14:12.19 | Masticator | probably |
| 14:13.41 | Masticator | adrift2: the bottom line is we feel qtopia and opie are architectually flawed |
| 14:13.47 | mithro | just want to change a keycode produced by a button |
| 14:13.51 | Masticator | and that a complete redesign is required |
| 14:14.11 | adrift2 | BTW Qtopia has been developed over 3 years. Back 3 years ago there were 4 developers splt over Qt/Embedded and Qt Palmtop development so 3 years ago it would have been true that Qt Palmtop was not developed fulltime |
| 14:14.20 | Masticator | and we don't feel TT has the expertise to design a PDA OS. |
| 14:14.56 | adrift2 | There is now probably over 20 man years development in Qtopia |
| 14:15.40 | adrift2 | hard to measure these things, but TT has a sizable investment in engineering time in Qtopia |
| 14:16.21 | adrift2 | Masticator: Qtopia was somewhat different from things TT has done before |
| 14:16.25 | Masticator | adrift2: I am sure some of our bread and butter will be made in coding Qtopia applictions |
| 14:16.26 | adrift2 | a lot to learn |
| 14:16.51 | Masticator | but we have a distinct vision for what we want to build |
| 14:17.53 | adrift2 | there is a vision for qtopia too, but we also are pragmatic and know we can't do everything immediately |
| 14:18.14 | Masticator | I'm pretty sure our vision is different. :) |
| 14:18.21 | adrift2 | we also have to make money from that time in development which means having income from a product |
| 14:18.49 | adrift2 | you can have an initial design, then improve it with susequent releases |
| 14:19.43 | adrift2 | joel on software talks about second systems. It's a common desire for programmers to want to start a program or system again |
| 14:19.58 | adrift2 | it helps them to understand it |
| 14:20.41 | mithro | Masticator: where is qtopia wrong? At the qtopia or at the qt/e level? |
| 14:20.53 | Masticator | both |
| 14:21.45 | Masticator | second system effect is only important if the second system is inferior to whats currently around |
| 14:21.47 | adrift2 | maybe you should start with GPE as your base, LGPL which I think is more what you would want right? |
| 14:21.54 | Masticator | and I would hardly call Qtopia a player |
| 14:22.08 | mithro | so you are going to rewrite QT/e and Qtopia? |
| 14:22.11 | Masticator | its got installations in the tens of thousands tops |
| 14:22.22 | adrift2 | Masticator: in the embedded linux market, or PDA market overall? |
| 14:22.26 | Masticator | probably just use Qt |
| 14:22.48 | Masticator | PDA/digitial convergence device market |
| 14:23.17 | Masticator | if there are 30,000 qtopia devices in existence that is a lot |
| 14:23.24 | Masticator | and that is a high end estimate |
| 14:24.05 | adrift2 | I couldn't tell you numbers |
| 14:24.15 | mithro | unquie devices? - ie C700, 5500, Simpad, etc......... |
| 14:24.21 | Masticator | well, I have a very good idea of how many Zauri there are |
| 14:24.38 | prpplague | mithro: imho, qtopia is wrong at the licensing level, lol |
| 14:24.45 | adrift2 | 5000D, 5500, 5600? |
| 14:24.56 | Masticator | all linux zauruses |
| 14:25.04 | adrift2 | Masticator: how many? |
| 14:25.05 | Masticator | there are less than 30,000 total |
| 14:25.10 | Masticator | produced |
| 14:25.10 | icefox | hehe |
| 14:25.20 | mithro | Masticator: where you talking devices as in unqiue hardware or devices as in produced |
| 14:25.25 | *** join/#openembedded LordVan (~lordvan@62.218.218.165) |
| 14:25.25 | icefox | a little birdy told me 2K 5600 |
| 14:25.28 | Masticator | PRODUCED |
| 14:25.31 | absentia | hmm |
| 14:25.32 | mithro | less then 30,000? |
| 14:25.35 | absentia | post by chipx86 on slashdot. |
| 14:25.36 | Masticator | yes |
| 14:25.36 | absentia | heheh |
| 14:25.50 | mithro | i find that a bit hard to believe |
| 14:26.01 | Masticator | beleive what you want |
| 14:26.39 | adrift2 | what about C300, C500, c700 etc? |
| 14:26.48 | adrift2 | japanese market? |
| 14:26.54 | mithro | my local reseller has shipped around ~150 Z's in the last 2 years |
| 14:26.55 | Masticator | 10-15,000 tops |
| 14:27.00 | adrift2 | A300, B500 I think |
| 14:27.39 | Masticator | japanese production even more limited than US production |
| 14:27.39 | absentia | I was about to call dynamism for a 750 ... |
| 14:27.45 | adrift2 | what about c700, c750, c760, I heard they can't make enough |
| 14:27.47 | absentia | but now I may go to tkc for a 760 |
| 14:27.51 | absentia | I was just about to pick up the phone. |
| 14:27.54 | Masticator | 22,000 5500's produced |
| 14:28.01 | Masticator | 5000 SL-5000D |
| 14:28.06 | mithro | only need 100 places to ship 150 and you have 15,000 |
| 14:28.10 | Masticator | 2000 5600's |
| 14:28.17 | adrift2 | I heard that orders out strip supply of lcd screens |
| 14:28.19 | Masticator | figure 10-15K japanese units |
| 14:28.36 | Masticator | we're not talking about a huge user base here |
| 14:28.45 | adrift2 | only reason numbers are low is supply of lcd screens if you ask me |
| 14:28.46 | mithro | those LCD screens are brillient :) |
| 14:28.56 | Masticator | adrift2: bullshit |
| 14:29.15 | Masticator | sharp is the largest LCD producer in the world |
| 14:29.15 | adrift2 | whatever |
| 14:29.22 | icefox | adrift2: sales were bad |
| 14:29.23 | Masticator | they sell the same screens to HP |
| 14:29.25 | Masticator | and Sony |
| 14:29.33 | icefox | a best buy guy told me 1/10 were returned |
| 14:29.46 | Masticator | icefox: worse returns than that |
| 14:29.54 | Masticator | close to 100 percent in some stores |
| 14:29.56 | icefox | yah, well he was just one manager |
| 14:29.58 | cyn | best buy sells the zaurus? |
| 14:29.59 | adrift2 | c700 was so slow |
| 14:30.08 | Masticator | cyn: they did at one time |
| 14:30.10 | icefox | cyn: they did for a month, but sales were so bad they pulled it |
| 14:30.11 | cyn | Masticator: keep in mind that best buy has a replacement program that they prolly count as a return |
| 14:30.13 | absentia | my 700 is slow |
| 14:30.18 | absentia | for video and mame |
| 14:30.24 | adrift2 | c700 with sharp rom sucks |
| 14:30.25 | absentia | but I don't have gcc3 versions for those things |
| 14:30.29 | Masticator | all of Sharp's super store partners cut their relationship with the zaurus group last year |
| 14:30.32 | cyn | so you get your pda, use it until a better one comes out, break it and retrn it - people did that shit all that time :( |
| 14:30.36 | Masticator | zaurus is not being sold in retail anymore |
| 14:30.41 | cyn | office depot |
| 14:30.43 | Masticator | the 5600 to enterprise users only |
| 14:30.47 | adrift2 | the pxa250 with cache disabled by kernel in sharp rom is problem |
| 14:30.53 | adrift2 | intel's bug |
| 14:30.56 | cyn | yeah adrift |
| 14:30.59 | absentia | I'm runnig sukoshi kernel on the 700 |
| 14:31.01 | cyn | but it looks bad for the Z |
| 14:31.01 | absentia | there's no difference |
| 14:31.04 | Masticator | OD is the only one left and I beleive it is from old stock |
| 14:31.13 | Masticator | most of the 5500s were liquidated |
| 14:31.16 | Masticator | on QVC |
| 14:31.17 | mithro | adrift2: yeah with the cache renabled, and gcc 3.3 compiled it runs alot better |
| 14:31.30 | absentia | cyn: what do you mean? for all z? or what ? |
| 14:31.48 | absentia | well, I'm still gonna get a 760. |
| 14:31.55 | absentia | now that I found out I can take the back cover off |
| 14:31.57 | absentia | and use a smaller battery. |
| 14:32.01 | mithro | video/mame is still slow under OZ - but thats not having an accelled driver |
| 14:32.08 | pb_ | adrift2: most of the stories you hear about pxa250 cache performance are exaggerated. with gcc2 compiled code you are unlikely to see much difference between writeback and writethrough. |
| 14:32.10 | mithro | s/driver/video driver |
| 14:32.19 | cyn | absentia: I mean it just looks bad for the Z even though its intels bug |
| 14:32.25 | absentia | pb: I couldn't "feel" any difference |
| 14:32.29 | cyn | makes sharp look bad from poor performance |
| 14:32.30 | absentia | and there are 0 benchmarks out ther. |
| 14:32.41 | icefox | I wrote one |
| 14:32.46 | absentia | cyn: ah, ok. perhaps... but I don't think it matters... for most things, it works just fine! |
| 14:32.54 | absentia | ice: was it java based? |
| 14:33.01 | cyn | well. it's pretty slow - and I don't think it's just ram |
| 14:33.10 | cyn | for a 400mhz proc its slow that is |
| 14:33.14 | mithro | the DoctorZ media player works very nicley for video under Sharp Rom |
| 14:33.16 | absentia | I agree 100% |
| 14:33.23 | absentia | I can't figure out where all those MHz are going! |
| 14:33.24 | cyn | but yeah a c750 or c760 would kick total ass |
| 14:33.28 | absentia | to me, it runs like a p75 |
| 14:33.36 | adrift2 | I agree |
| 14:33.38 | cyn | screens why I got it, can't complain |
| 14:33.42 | absentia | yup |
| 14:33.43 | cyn | (about the screen heh) |
| 14:33.43 | pb_ | cyn: most pxa250 "performance problems" are caused by poor choice of compiler. |
| 14:33.51 | absentia | screen #1, keys #2, linux #3.... |
| 14:33.53 | mithro | you don't have a fpu as well |
| 14:34.18 | cyn | pb_: well, when OZ releases a new c700 image compiled by gcc3 it should run golden then |
| 14:34.24 | absentia | anyone here ahve both a 750/760 and a 700 ? |
| 14:34.33 | mithro | nope |
| 14:34.35 | absentia | cyn: there was an image put up with gcc3... |
| 14:34.38 | adrift2 | also a performance problems is app startup time which is due to dynamic linking. They don't use combreloc |
| 14:34.40 | absentia | I didn't notice much of a difference, if any. |
| 14:34.50 | mithro | but if you ship me a C760 i'll make you an image for it |
| 14:34.51 | absentia | I'm gonna get my 760 in.. before I sell my 700 |
| 14:34.59 | mithro | :) |
| 14:35.00 | absentia | since I need to put the stylus from the 760 to the 700 .. since I broke my 700 |
| 14:35.04 | absentia | and I'll do side by side comparisons. |
| 14:35.12 | mithro | yeah that style is SOOOO easy to break |
| 14:35.18 | mithro | i've broken 2 |
| 14:35.20 | absentia | I had kergoth log into my 700 the second day I got it |
| 14:35.29 | cyn | absentia: put up by OZ or some third party ? |
| 14:35.29 | absentia | I had 6 logins, 4 were me, 1 was a friend and the other was kergoth |
| 14:35.30 | absentia | :-> |
| 14:35.47 | absentia | I use a papermate led pencil.... |
| 14:35.50 | absentia | cyn: what put up? |
| 14:35.56 | cyn | the image |
| 14:36.07 | absentia | it was openzaurus/official/experimental |
| 14:36.12 | absentia | kergoth was putting up several images a day/week |
| 14:36.15 | absentia | then he stopped on like apr 26 |
| 14:36.17 | cyn | wait you broke your c700 absen? |
| 14:36.19 | absentia | with a BROKEN image! |
| 14:36.23 | absentia | and it hasn't changed since then |
| 14:36.26 | adrift2 | does OZ use prelinking? |
| 14:36.26 | cyn | that image isn't broken |
| 14:36.34 | absentia | cyn: the stylus... the first night I got it |
| 14:36.35 | pb_ | cyn: let's hope. |
| 14:36.36 | cyn | it's not there now tho |
| 14:36.44 | pb_ | adrift2: not at present, afaik. |
| 14:36.47 | gb2 | it's not that hard to build your own image |
| 14:36.50 | absentia | it didn't have systime or the keyboard... and I think the arrow keys were fubared |
| 14:36.53 | gb2 | i built one for my c760 |
| 14:36.59 | cyn | the arrow keys were rotated |
| 14:37.09 | cyn | like up was left iirc |
| 14:37.13 | absentia | it wasn't a problem ... if you knew where the image was, you knew how to add those things... but a simple rebuild and upload could have made that so much simpler. |
| 14:37.18 | cyn | because it didn't use kernel keymap yet |
| 14:37.24 | absentia | gb2: ya, I want to build my own image |
| 14:37.28 | *** join/#openembedded TimRiker (~timr@proxyle01.ext.ti.com) |
| 14:37.29 | cyn | which wasn't a quick fix |
| 14:37.36 | absentia | I do not like to be dependent on others.... |
| 14:37.40 | absentia | hey, get this.... |
| 14:38.17 | mithro | cyn: my latest image works okay - but the keymap for the rocker doesn't work yet |
| 14:38.21 | gb2 | the keymap still isn't fully fixed |
| 14:38.29 | absentia | I wanted to install samba3.0.0rc1 for ldap support... so I get the code... |
| 14:38.58 | cyn | mithro: heh that's like the main feature I use (ebooks in pda mode) |
| 14:39.09 | cyn | but coo |
| 14:39.11 | mithro | cyn: yeah i know - hence why i mentioned it :) |
| 14:39.22 | mithro | before you ran of and installed it :) |
| 14:39.27 | absentia | but it requires mit kerberos, can't use heimdal... only, I standardized on heimdal! so I go to compile mit on this sun 3800.. says it can't find my c compiler, no problem, it's old... so I install gcc 3.3.... so it configures and starts to compile -- much of the way through, when doing ktelnet... it tells me that GCC refuses to compile varargs.. and I have to update the code to use stdargs. |
| 14:39.30 | mithro | the arrow keys have been fixed a long time |
| 14:39.38 | cyn | I read in laptop mode for a few days for OZ |
| 14:39.45 | cyn | wasn't horrendous |
| 14:39.53 | absentia | I wish someone would put up a clear, concise... english.... howto... how to compile your own distro... etc. |
| 14:39.54 | cyn | but I prefer a thin tall page |
| 14:40.15 | absentia | also, is there a way to get opera compiled with gcc3 for oz? |
| 14:40.18 | mithro | yeah, so do i, but i don't do much reading :) |
| 14:40.28 | cyn | absentia: opera isn't open source |
| 14:40.29 | mithro | absentia: no, but you can use my oz-compat packages |
| 14:40.32 | absentia | what is that small web browser I was in the russian rom? |
| 14:40.42 | absentia | mith: ok, I'll take a peek at that. |
| 14:40.49 | gb2 | is there a magic fix to get opie to do autorotation? |
| 14:40.49 | mithro | which allows you to run Opera + Jeode on gcc3.3 compiled system |
| 14:40.56 | cyn | nice |
| 14:41.10 | absentia | I can't save files with opera anymore... it doesn't give me any choice where to write files... and it won't write to internal rom or cf or sd! |
| 14:41.24 | mithro | gb2: all we need is a program which listens for the keycode produced does the rotation |
| 14:41.35 | absentia | mith: nice!!!! I will definitely have to check that out. that's the only reason why I haven't switched to oz.... opera. |
| 14:41.54 | mithro | it works really nicely |
| 14:42.03 | absentia | I hope to have a 760 by the time oz is released for the c7x0 .. and I'll do it then. |
| 14:42.05 | mithro | the icons are a bit small but other then that it is cool |
| 14:42.10 | absentia | all I know is my c700 is getting worse and worse. |
| 14:42.10 | gb2 | hmm.. i thought i poked at those, guess i didn't push down enough |
| 14:42.37 | mithro | gb2: we don't have the program yet :) it needs to be written |
| 14:43.07 | absentia | hey, quick question... help me understand... what is the "NAND" restore? does that mean there's a ROM image inside the machine that I can restore from? to get back a base japanese install ? |
| 14:43.15 | gb2 | mithro: no.. i was meaning i was doing some keymap hacking and thought i pushed down on one of the microswitches |
| 14:43.19 | gb2 | and didn't see a keycode |
| 14:43.23 | mithro | ahh |
| 14:43.45 | mithro | well there is references to it in the keymap |
| 14:43.51 | liyang | absentia: NAND (in this context) refers to a type of Flash memory. |
| 14:44.04 | gb2 | mithro: i was discussing the c7x0 keymap issues with kergoth a few days ago, and basically he said "we're accepting patches" so i went to plan out completing his keymap work |
| 14:44.55 | liyang | (you'd parse NAND as `not and', in both contexts. ;) |
| 14:45.05 | mithro | gb2: join the club :) |
| 14:45.26 | gb2 | watch in 2 weeks, 5 people will post fixed keymap implementations |
| 14:45.37 | mithro | gb2: do you know much about keymaps? |
| 14:46.12 | gb2 | i know i hate the linux keyboard implementation before mid-2.5, and i spent about 90 minutes mapping out how keystrokes work in Qt |
| 14:46.29 | mithro | #define SLKEY_HINGEMOVED 102 |
| 14:46.38 | mithro | :) |
| 14:46.54 | gb2 | i think it would take me about 8-10h of hacking to fix the c7x0 keymap within opie |
| 14:47.15 | mithro | gb2: you shouldn't need to hack opie really |
| 14:47.19 | gb2 | which file are the SLKEY_* in? |
| 14:47.29 | gb2 | mithro: you need to fix the qpe keyboard interface |
| 14:47.36 | *** join/#openembedded XavierXeon (~xx@pD9E1EAC6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:47.49 | mithro | according to kergoth qt/e just uses the console keymap now |
| 14:47.53 | mithro | so you just need to fix that |
| 14:48.04 | gb2 | i had a long discussion with kergoth about this :P |
| 14:48.11 | mithro | buildroot-oz/build/linux/drivers/char$ vi ../../include/asm-arm/sharp_keycode.h |
| 14:48.14 | mithro | ahh :) |
| 14:48.23 | mithro | gb2: so whats wrong on qpe? |
| 14:48.26 | gb2 | it uses it for generated character values |
| 14:48.26 | mithro | s/on/in |
| 14:48.37 | gb2 | but not for such things as key modifiers (like shift) |
| 14:49.01 | mithro | yeah - they keycode comes direct from the console already shifted? |
| 14:49.08 | gb2 | qt/e needs another table of kernel-keysym -> qt-keysym values |
| 14:49.52 | gb2 | sorta. |
| 14:49.55 | mithro | #define SLKEY_KANA 121 |
| 14:49.55 | mithro | #define SLKEY_ZENHAN 122 |
| 14:50.06 | mithro | i want to define them as Alt and Ctrl |
| 14:50.11 | gb2 | yeah |
| 14:50.23 | mithro | actually i know very little about them :) |
| 14:52.28 | gb2 | it sorta does now |
| 14:52.39 | gb2 | like i said, it needs one table and a little bit of lookup code |
| 14:52.47 | gb2 | and it'll map kernel -> qt |
| 14:53.09 | gb2 | then you can use loadkeys to change your keymap |
| 14:53.47 | mithro | that would be cool |
| 14:53.54 | mithro | what is loadkeys? :) |
| 14:54.05 | gb2 | loadkeys is the way you load keymaps under linux |
| 14:54.09 | gb2 | in general |
| 14:54.16 | mithro | ** [.] Tty driver should load its initial keymap from the kernel, |
| 14:54.17 | mithro | ** thereby ensuring keymap consistency between X, console, and qt/e |
| 14:54.17 | mithro | ** [x] Read kernel keymappings. |
| 14:54.17 | mithro | ** [x] Read kernel keycode -> unicode map. |
| 14:54.17 | mithro | ** [x] Use them, along with the existing keyM, to push events up. |
| 14:54.17 | mithro | ** [ ] Create a new table, from transformed keycode -> qt keycode, rather |
| 14:54.19 | mithro | ** than the existing raw keycode -> qt keycode. |
| 14:54.31 | gb2 | you can use it to do things like swap capslock/ctrl on PC104 keyboards and similar things. |
| 14:54.35 | mithro | i'm assumming the last one is the bit that needs to be done |
| 14:54.42 | gb2 | yeah. |
| 14:55.15 | mithro | that really doesn't sound to hard :) but then i'm not really grasping the complexity i'm guessing :) |
| 14:55.53 | gb2 | it involves grunt work of making the table |
| 14:56.02 | mithro | would the loadkeys work with the corgi hardcodeded stuff? |
| 14:56.02 | gb2 | and probably 5-10 lines of real code |
| 14:56.12 | gb2 | what hardcoded stuff? |
| 14:56.13 | mithro | well i can make you a table if you want :) |
| 14:57.05 | mithro | whats these table need to contain? |
| 14:57.29 | gb2 | we need a mapping from kernel keysym -> qt keysym |
| 14:58.04 | *** join/#openembedded chouimat (~root@160.217.215.205) |
| 14:58.04 | *** mode/#openembedded [+o chouimat] by ChanServ |
| 14:58.33 | mithro | kernel keysym would be the number the scancode the kernel outputs? |
| 14:59.00 | Masticator | this is wack |
| 14:59.11 | mithro | what is wack? |
| 14:59.13 | Masticator | in Canada, mcdonalds has Double Big Macs |
| 14:59.22 | Masticator | and sandwiches called Big Xtras |
| 14:59.35 | mithro | so? |
| 14:59.42 | gb2 | mithro: not quite. |
| 14:59.45 | Masticator | so like, a double big mac is a Quad Pattie? |
| 14:59.52 | *** join/#openembedded chouimat|n7y (~root@160.217.215.205) |
| 14:59.59 | chouimat|n7y | hi |
| 15:00.03 | mithro | we have tripple cheese burgers and double quater pounder with cheese |
| 15:00.07 | gb2 | and it's tricky to find a reference because of how the kernel keyboard system is organized |
| 15:00.18 | Masticator | chouimat|n7y: what the hell is a Double Big Mac? |
| 15:00.24 | Masticator | and a Big Xtra? |
| 15:01.36 | mithro | could we just guess :) |
| 15:01.53 | chouimat|n7y | Masticator double big mac is 4 beef patties and big extra is an hamburger with laituce and tomato |
| 15:02.27 | icefox | Masticator: killer |
| 15:02.32 | Masticator | COOL! |
| 15:03.00 | *** join/#openembedded chouimat|n7y (~root@160.217.215.205) |
| 15:03.08 | mithro | gb2: if you write some code to load the keymap I'll get you the mapping you need :) |
| 15:03.17 | Masticator | the double big mac has 1568mg of sodium |
| 15:03.23 | nightfire | hmm.. is jffs ever going to support writable mmap()? |
| 15:03.28 | Masticator | 693 calories |
| 15:03.30 | Masticator | awesome |
| 15:03.57 | gb2 | mithro: heh. i don't expect that to take long, i was probably going to write a program to emit the table anyway |
| 15:04.05 | icefox | check out the "Hungry Man" dinners |
| 15:04.07 | icefox | >1000 |
| 15:04.21 | nightfire | bacon cheese double whopper > 1000 calories |
| 15:04.33 | nightfire | plus supersized fries & drink =~ 2000 |
| 15:04.42 | mewyn | or the hungry man breakfast. your cholestorol for a week. |
| 15:05.04 | nightfire | "Area man's recommended caloric intake exceeded before 10AM" |
| 15:05.12 | mewyn | this is why i eat at subway most of the time :) |
| 15:05.26 | nightfire | even subway can rack up the calories too though |
| 15:05.52 | nightfire | a 12" chicken w/bacon with lots of sauces = 1200 calories |
| 15:05.52 | mewyn | not if you're careful |
| 15:05.58 | nightfire | true |
| 15:06.09 | mithro | bacon at subway? |
| 15:06.16 | nightfire | yeah |
| 15:06.20 | nightfire | canada only i guess |
| 15:06.32 | mewyn | i buy a 12" club light on the red wine vinegarette, and eat half, save half for later |
| 15:06.38 | mewyn | its only about 300 cal |
| 15:06.45 | nightfire | yeah |
| 15:06.57 | mewyn | add a bag of baked chips and i've got a very satisfying meal |
| 15:06.59 | Masticator | double big mac just sounds obscene |
| 15:07.00 | gb2 | you can easily gain weight at subway |
| 15:07.05 | nightfire | gb2: nod |
| 15:07.06 | gb2 | jerod just ate the lame sandwiches |
| 15:07.31 | nightfire | hehe |
| 15:07.42 | absentia | my goal in '98 was to gain 60 lbs |
| 15:07.52 | absentia | I gained 40 and slowed down.. and then got 50.... |
| 15:07.52 | gb2 | i lost 40lbs last summer |
| 15:07.54 | mithro | gb2: can you see any quick way to get me my ctl :) i need to use screen which requires Ctl |
| 15:08.01 | gb2 | then i lost my motivation and gained it back |
| 15:08.10 | gb2 | i'm just starting to try again |
| 15:08.22 | absentia | how much do you weigh and how tall are you ? |
| 15:08.41 | Masticator | you guys seen this page? |
| 15:08.41 | mewyn | i don't need to gain/loose weight. but once i know how disgustingly bad a food is for me, i stop eating it :) |
| 15:08.46 | Masticator | http://www.tacobell.com/2003recall/ |
| 15:08.52 | absentia | of course |
| 15:08.55 | gb2 | mithro: not a trivial one |
| 15:08.59 | Masticator | dude, I'm voting for schwarzanegger, big time |
| 15:09.07 | Masticator | thats gonna be a lot of crunchy tacos |
| 15:09.11 | absentia | www.drudgereport.com is a decent jumping point... although not too many articles there today. the tacobell thing was there yesterday. |
| 15:09.14 | gb2 | I really shouldn't have eaten 2 donuts for breakfast |
| 15:09.16 | absentia | I think it also made slashdot. |
| 15:09.19 | mithro | gb2: o well... i'll just have to pester you alot then |
| 15:09.21 | mithro | :) |
| 15:09.21 | gb2 | that's not going to help me lose weight |
| 15:09.30 | nightfire | you guys don't have fries supreme in taco bell in the US right? |
| 15:09.49 | Harlekin | Masticator: that is to easy |
| 15:09.50 | Masticator | dunno havent been to a TB in ages |
| 15:10.16 | Harlekin | Masticator: i though the main goal is to have the bills the way nobody knows for who he is voting |
| 15:10.18 | Masticator | good thing they didnt do that election in florida |
| 15:10.23 | Harlekin | florida o florida |
| 15:10.30 | Masticator | fucking octogenarians cant eat anything other than liquids |
| 15:10.40 | nightfire | fries supreme is ignorantly delicious.. fries slathered in sour cream, onions, "beef" paste, nacho cheese |
| 15:11.31 | Masticator | taco bell electoral process is awesome |
| 15:12.23 | Masticator | the problem with it though, is if you are stoned |
| 15:12.29 | Masticator | you can eat a lot of tacos |
| 15:12.39 | nightfire | hehe |
| 15:12.45 | Masticator | and a lot of people in CA are high all the time |
| 15:12.59 | Masticator | which means arnie will be elected for sure |
| 15:13.01 | nightfire | one time when were high we ordered 27 hamburgers at mcdonalds |
| 15:13.05 | nightfire | on the 69 cent day |
| 15:13.09 | Masticator | lol |
| 15:13.16 | nightfire | 3 big bags |
| 15:13.21 | Masticator | done worse than that at White Castle |
| 15:13.21 | nightfire | soaking with grease |
| 15:13.44 | nightfire | white castle? |
| 15:13.54 | Masticator | white castle. |
| 15:14.02 | nightfire | what's that |
| 15:14.10 | Masticator | you order them by the dozen |
| 15:14.15 | Masticator | miniature hamburgers |
| 15:14.16 | nightfire | nice |
| 15:14.19 | nightfire | haha |
| 15:14.21 | Masticator | steam grilled |
| 15:14.28 | Masticator | www.whitecastle.com |
| 15:14.38 | Masticator | in the south, they have a similar chain called Krystal |
| 15:14.42 | Masticator | krystal.com |
| 15:15.04 | Masticator | once I had like 16 when I was really stoned |
| 15:15.10 | nightfire | hmm |
| 15:15.39 | Masticator | they call em "slyders" |
| 15:15.46 | Masticator | for what they do to your digestive tract |
| 15:15.52 | nightfire | hahaha |
| 15:16.03 | Masticator | oldest burger chain in the us |
| 15:16.08 | Masticator | since 1923 I think |
| 15:16.12 | nightfire | do you end up making a b-line for the shitter within 15 minutes? |
| 15:16.48 | Masticator | 1921 |
| 15:17.02 | Masticator | within about a half an hour, yeah |
| 15:17.17 | Masticator | and if it doesnt make you do that, you fart nasty for hours |
| 15:17.21 | Masticator | sometimes DAYS |
| 15:17.27 | nightfire | nice. |
| 15:17.43 | Masticator | and why do people eat there you ask |
| 15:17.49 | Masticator | because its open 24 hours. |
| 15:17.51 | nightfire | oh, i know why |
| 15:17.54 | nightfire | TB does the same thing |
| 15:17.56 | nightfire | but i still go :) |
| 15:18.11 | Masticator | white castles are always in the worst neighborhoods too |
| 15:18.17 | nightfire | in fact, my brother and i am currently building a GPS guided R/C jet to fly taco bell from ottawa to montreal :) |
| 15:18.22 | nightfire | since we have no TB in quebec. |
| 15:18.26 | Masticator | the people taking orders are behind bullet proof glass |
| 15:18.41 | nightfire | haha |
| 15:43.16 | absentia | me has never had white castle burgers |
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| 15:50.07 | *** join/#openembedded gortsleigh (~chatzilla@dsc02-ari-co-5-111.rasserver.net) |
| 15:54.19 | *** join/#openembedded mithro_ (~tim@dsl1-83.gw1.adl1.airnet.com.au) |
| 15:58.49 | *** join/#openembedded Zippo_ (~thomas@p508C3B3D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:00.25 | treke | you know |
| 16:00.37 | treke | bigbosses email borders on spam |
| 16:00.43 | treke | " Important information about your Sharp Zaurus |
| 16:01.03 | treke | n. It's important information about tkc's new projects and has nothing to do with my Zaurus |
| 16:01.18 | pb_ | complain to his ISP. |
| 16:03.00 | XavierXeon | well its very unproffesional spam, the return address is valid |
| 16:18.09 | *** join/#openembedded sieve_work (~klu5ter@12.148.134.9) |
| 16:20.38 | icefox | Qt 3.2.1 is out |
| 16:21.38 | icefox | Qtopia 1.7 is out |
| 16:21.40 | icefox | busy day |
| 16:23.28 | Twiun | yeah |
| 16:23.38 | icefox | yah for n7y |
| 16:24.24 | treke | when is the new gtk coming out |
| 16:25.30 | treke | sweet. hh22 should finally support both MMC and SD |
| 16:36.32 | gb2 | hh22? |
| 16:39.41 | Dr_Who | hard hat linux? |
| 16:40.49 | Twiun | handheld linux I imagine |
| 16:40.50 | *** join/#openembedded mithro (~tim@dsl1-83.gw1.adl1.airnet.com.au) |
| 16:48.45 | *** join/#openembedded Verxion (~root@ip-130-76-32-100.boeing.com) |
| 16:48.52 | Verxion | hay low |
| 16:48.55 | Verxion | anyone around? |
| 16:48.56 | treke | ibot, seen demo? |
| 16:48.57 | | demo <~demo@wlanap2.nz.psg.sk> was last seen on IRC in channel #handhelds.org, 3h 35m 39s ago, saying: 'hi!'. |
| 16:49.16 | treke | aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrggggg |
| 16:51.03 | Verxion | what's wrong treke? |
| 16:51.37 | treke | Verxion: I've been trying to catch demo for the past two weeks. Every time I check I've missed him by a few hours |
| 16:51.41 | treke | :p |
| 16:52.00 | Verxion | bummer! |
| 16:55.13 | Twiun | can't wait for everyone to come back and get this place more lively :) |
| 16:57.33 | treke | Verxion: http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/2/0,3363,sz=1&i=26641,00.gif <-- that's the ipaq I was talking about |
| 17:02.28 | icefox | how does one have a qtopia app start after launcher starts? |
| 17:02.40 | treke | icefox: in opie? |
| 17:02.49 | icefox | opie/qtopia |
| 17:02.55 | icefox | i.e. launcher |
| 17:02.59 | treke | there isnt a standard way |
| 17:03.05 | icefox | bla |
| 17:03.31 | treke | take it up with trolltech |
| 17:03.35 | icefox | will do |
| 17:04.03 | icefox | hehe just make it an init.d |
| 17:04.14 | icefox | item |
| 17:04.23 | gb2 | Verxion: hey |
| 17:04.24 | treke | that may or may not work |
| 17:04.26 | gb2 | ltns |
| 17:04.34 | gb2 | assuming you are who i think you are |
| 17:04.54 | icefox | gb2: talking to me? |
| 17:05.14 | gb2 | icefox: nope. to Verx |
| 17:05.19 | icefox | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:05.51 | Verxion | sorry, had a meeting |
| 17:05.53 | Verxion | just got back |
| 17:06.40 | treke | icefox: if you start it in init.d you risk it starting before the qws server loads |
| 17:06.47 | gb2 | Verx: hey, sup? |
| 17:07.03 | Verxion | nammuch |
| 17:07.04 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:07.07 | Verxion | you? |
| 17:07.12 | gb2 | i'm doing pretty good |
| 17:07.15 | Verxion | (and yes, I am who you think I am) :) |
| 17:07.22 | Verxion | that's good to hear |
| 17:07.25 | gb2 | you haven't been around over there in ages |
| 17:07.33 | Verxion | nope, sure haven't |
| 17:07.39 | Verxion | sold our old house |
| 17:07.43 | Verxion | moved into an apartment |
| 17:07.46 | gb2 | ah |
| 17:07.52 | Verxion | our new house will be done on the 16th |
| 17:07.58 | Verxion | been VERY busy with all of that |
| 17:07.59 | gb2 | really cool |
| 17:08.10 | Verxion | yes, it really is |
| 17:08.16 | gb2 | i moved in with my gf in a really cool apartment |
| 17:08.19 | Verxion | the tiny apartment, however, is not |
| 17:08.20 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:08.25 | Verxion | cool gb! |
| 17:08.26 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:08.40 | Verxion | our entire apartment is smaller than the master bedroom of our new house |
| 17:08.45 | gb2 | wow |
| 17:08.49 | Verxion | and we live in the apt. with 2 dogs and a cat |
| 17:08.57 | Verxion | I am WAY WAY over ready for the house |
| 17:08.57 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:09.03 | gb2 | hehe |
| 17:09.22 | Verxion | so, anyone here tried tkcROM? |
| 17:09.28 | Verxion | is it evil and wrong? |
| 17:09.29 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:10.43 | Verxion | ok, I guess not |
| 17:10.52 | Verxion | what about the test versions of OZ? |
| 17:11.00 | Verxion | I am on a roughly April install of OZ 3.2 |
| 17:11.04 | gb2 | i'm running a recent build on my c760 |
| 17:11.10 | gb2 | built myself |
| 17:11.15 | Verxion | ok, now you just SUCK! |
| 17:11.19 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:11.23 | gb2 | :) |
| 17:11.29 | gb2 | you have a house though :P |
| 17:11.37 | Verxion | I bought a Canon 10d though (with accessories) |
| 17:11.43 | Verxion | so I am toyed out for a while |
| 17:11.46 | gb2 | sweet |
| 17:11.50 | Verxion | lest my wife slaughter me |
| 17:11.50 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:11.50 | gb2 | i have the S400 |
| 17:11.54 | Verxion | oh, cool |
| 17:11.58 | Verxion | my bro just bought that one |
| 17:12.03 | Verxion | he showed me some video from it |
| 17:12.07 | Verxion | I was really impressed |
| 17:12.17 | gb2 | i can make good use of a DSLR, but most of the places i want to take pictures, i want a tiny camera |
| 17:12.17 | Verxion | I mean, it isn't video camera quality |
| 17:12.31 | Verxion | but it is VERY good for such a small camera |
| 17:12.43 | gb2 | yeah, i took a ton of photos from OLS |
| 17:12.47 | gb2 | got a few videos too |
| 17:12.47 | Verxion | yeah, I had a Nikon coolpix before |
| 17:12.54 | gb2 | like bryce saying "It's my fault." |
| 17:12.56 | Verxion | so I sortof miss the small form factor |
| 17:13.10 | Verxion | but I blow my pics up to 16x20 |
| 17:13.13 | Verxion | and they look kickass |
| 17:13.20 | gb2 | cool. |
| 17:13.22 | Verxion | I couldn't do that with a smaller camera |
| 17:13.33 | Verxion | I actually have a gallery that wants my pics |
| 17:13.40 | Verxion | I just have to buy the equipment to make my own mats |
| 17:13.49 | Verxion | otherwise it will be a bit more costly than I would like |
| 17:13.52 | gb2 | doing your own mattes is easy |
| 17:13.57 | Verxion | that is what I hear |
| 17:14.00 | Verxion | I just haven't ever done it |
| 17:14.01 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:14.12 | Verxion | the expense isn't trivial either though |
| 17:14.12 | gb2 | you get the little guide thingies to slice them squarely |
| 17:14.19 | Verxion | to get the right stuff anyway |
| 17:14.33 | gb2 | i guess it's up around $100-200 for a professional jig |
| 17:14.53 | Verxion | right, plus some nice tables |
| 17:14.56 | Verxion | and the material |
| 17:15.00 | gb2 | yeah |
| 17:15.13 | Verxion | and I want to do it right the first time so I am researching it |
| 17:15.14 | gb2 | i keep buying stuff thinking i'll build cool stuff worth selling |
| 17:15.26 | gb2 | i've got boxes of EL wire stowed away for example |
| 17:15.29 | Verxion | rather than buying something and then realizing I want something better |
| 17:15.33 | Verxion | EL wire? |
| 17:15.45 | mewyn | electroluminecent |
| 17:15.49 | Verxion | oh, cool |
| 17:16.01 | gb2 | it's EL material in a coax wire form (fairly thin). |
| 17:16.50 | gb2 | looks like neon |
| 17:16.58 | Verxion | awesome! :) |
| 17:17.14 | gb2 | i was going to build a clock out of it |
| 17:17.22 | gb2 | i have tons of wire, electronics, and polycarbonate |
| 17:17.37 | gb2 | spent about $500 on materials so i'd have stuff to toy with |
| 17:17.46 | gb2 | it's been in boxes for about 15 months |
| 17:17.52 | TimRiker | ~convert ton to pounds |
| 17:17.58 | Verxion | heh |
| 17:18.01 | Verxion | sounds like me |
| 17:18.21 | Verxion | I do that kind of thing all the time |
| 17:18.34 | Verxion | Discontinue use of Happy Fun Ball if any of the following occurs: |
| 17:18.34 | Verxion | Itching |
| 17:18.34 | Verxion | Vertigo |
| 17:18.34 | Verxion | Dizziness |
| 17:18.34 | Verxion | Tingling in extremities |
| 17:18.35 | Verxion | Loss of balance or coordination |
| 17:18.37 | Verxion | Slurred speech |
| 17:18.38 | gb2 | ibot has that wrong.. that's a metric ton, and it even has the metric tonne wrong |
| 17:18.39 | | You are moron #1, gb2 |
| 17:18.39 | Verxion | Temporary Blindness |
| 17:18.41 | Verxion | Profuse sweating |
| 17:18.43 | Verxion | Heart Palpitations |
| 17:18.56 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:19.28 | gb2 | heh |
| 17:19.33 | TimRiker | ~convert metricton to pounds |
| 17:19.40 | gb2 | that is correct |
| 17:19.45 | gb2 | a ton is exactly 2000 pounds though |
| 17:19.47 | Verxion | ~convert englishton to pounds |
| 17:19.59 | Verxion | ~convert tonne to pounds |
| 17:20.07 | Verxion | bah |
| 17:20.12 | gb2 | ah. brton is 2240 |
| 17:20.26 | gb2 | ~convert pint to cup |
| 17:20.36 | Verxion | ~convert gb2 to gb3 |
| 17:20.37 | gb2 | ~convert pint to floz |
| 17:20.49 | gb2 | ~convert cup to floz |
| 17:20.54 | gb2 | weird |
| 17:20.59 | gb2 | it's a mixed bag i guess |
| 17:21.04 | Verxion | yup |
| 17:21.27 | gb2 | british cup is 10 british fluid ounces |
| 17:21.44 | Verxion | how many french ounces though? |
| 17:21.45 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:21.54 | gb2 | heh |
| 17:22.04 | gb2 | the new google calculator thingy is weird |
| 17:22.43 | gb2 | google for "7 liters + 8 ounces in gallons" |
| 17:22.50 | gb2 | and it spits out: (7 liters) + (8 US fluid ounces) = 1.91170436 US gallons |
| 17:22.53 | TimRiker | ~convert shortton to pounds |
| 17:23.01 | icefox | Where is opie console in cvs? |
| 17:23.02 | Verxion | there ya go |
| 17:23.03 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:23.15 | Verxion | icefox: embeddedkonsole |
| 17:24.03 | icefox | I thought that was the shell? |
| 17:24.06 | icefox | I mean the serial thing |
| 17:24.11 | icefox | minicom |
| 17:24.13 | icefox | type thing |
| 17:24.31 | Verxion | http://cvs.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/opie/core/apps/embeddedkonsole/ |
| 17:24.35 | Verxion | oh, sorry |
| 17:24.48 | icefox | opie-console is the package |
| 17:25.03 | icefox | noncore/apps/ |
| 17:25.04 | icefox | found it |
| 17:25.18 | Verxion | there ya go |
| 17:25.25 | Verxion | sorry I misunderstood |
| 17:25.30 | Verxion | been out of this for quite a while |
| 17:25.30 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:26.20 | gb2 | i really should obtain a serial cable for my c760 |
| 17:27.47 | Verxion | life without a serial cable for an ipaq just SUCKS |
| 17:27.47 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:27.57 | treke | why? |
| 17:27.58 | Verxion | but on the zaurus |
| 17:28.02 | Verxion | it isn't such a big deal |
| 17:28.03 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:28.15 | Verxion | treke: You can't convert it to linux! :) |
| 17:28.18 | gb2 | verx: well. it's still somewhat annoying. |
| 17:28.21 | treke | Verxion: sure you can :p |
| 17:28.31 | treke | Verxion: Care to join is in 2003? :p |
| 17:28.31 | Verxion | treke: They finally got CF flashing to work? |
| 17:28.37 | Verxion | treke: Sorry man |
| 17:28.40 | Verxion | liek I said |
| 17:28.41 | Verxion | been busy |
| 17:28.42 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:29.11 | treke | cf flashing has been working for a long while now. Serialless flashing just happened this year though |
| 17:30.04 | Verxion | treke: Cool beans |
| 17:31.45 | TimRiker | ~cool beans |
| 17:31.59 | Verxion | oh |
| 17:32.04 | Verxion | opie works on the axim now? |
| 17:32.28 | treke | Verxion: "works" |
| 17:32.28 | Verxion | timriker: I only use it about twice a year now |
| 17:32.33 | treke | Verxion: In theory it boots |
| 17:32.38 | Verxion | treke: heh |
| 17:32.41 | treke | and opie is supposed to run |
| 17:33.03 | treke | tiny things like sd and a bootloader and apm dont work |
| 17:33.10 | treke | nothing big |
| 17:33.14 | Verxion | ahh |
| 17:33.20 | Verxion | so it is nearly complete |
| 17:33.20 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:33.54 | Verxion | pxa? |
| 17:33.57 | Verxion | damn |
| 17:33.59 | treke | Verxion: xscale |
| 17:34.12 | treke | lower power and faster |
| 17:34.13 | Verxion | :) |
| 17:34.28 | treke | the axim is nice since it's only 300 bucks :p |
| 17:34.29 | Verxion | is pxa the designation for the well built xscale |
| 17:34.35 | Verxion | or is it the number that says that? |
| 17:34.42 | treke | pxa255 is the good one |
| 17:34.44 | Verxion | like the 255 versus some earlier part number? |
| 17:34.54 | treke | pxa250 was the orignal series |
| 17:35.03 | Verxion | ok |
| 17:35.06 | Verxion | it is coming back to me |
| 17:35.14 | Verxion | so what is the verdict on the 255? |
| 17:35.20 | Verxion | is it truly a lot faster at the same clock speed? |
| 17:35.45 | TimRiker | just that the writeback cache works. on the 250 linux runs with writethrough. |
| 17:36.10 | TimRiker | ~pxa250 |
| 17:36.11 | | hmm... pxa250 is at http://developer.intel.com/design/intelxscale/ |
| 17:37.00 | TimRiker | ~pxa250 is also has a broken writeback cache, so linux runs in write-through mode slowing things down. see pxa255 for a fixed chip. |
| 17:37.01 | | TimRiker: okay |
| 17:37.06 | TimRiker | ~pxa255 |
| 17:37.56 | TimRiker | ~pxa255 is http://developer.intel.com/design/pca/prodbref/252780.htm or a pxa250 with the write back cache fixed |
| 17:37.56 | | TimRiker: okay |
| 17:41.38 | TimRiker | ~pxa250 is also http://intel.com/design/pca/applicationsprocessors/specupdt/27853405.pdf |
| 17:41.39 | | okay, TimRiker |
| 17:41.46 | gb2 | have people seen any noticable improvement using gcc3 vs. gcc2.95.3 for xscale code generation? |
| 17:42.01 | icefox | yah |
| 17:42.15 | liyang | How much? |
| 17:43.33 | icefox | I don't ahve sepsifics, but enough to notice |
| 17:43.35 | icefox | also had prelink |
| 17:44.05 | liyang | from recent conversations with an ARM employee, GCC is an utter POS when it comes to compiling code that runs well on the v5 architecture. Didn't occur to me at the time to ask whether he was referring to the old 2.95 or 3.3... |
| 17:49.24 | treke | ok. emailed demo and the guy who has been communicating with Matt Domsch at dell |
| 17:50.22 | Harlekin | liyang: 2.95 is really shit for v5 |
| 17:50.56 | Harlekin | icefox: just that prelink on a pda is not to nice |
| 17:51.12 | liyang | Harlekin: as I would have guessed. But is 3.3 (or 3.2) any better? |
| 17:51.37 | Harlekin | at least a bit |
| 17:51.47 | Harlekin | overall gcc is not a good c++ compiler |
| 17:51.48 | treke | liyang: all qtopia apps are |
| 17:52.33 | gb2 | Harlekin: what's wrong with prelinking on a pda? |
| 17:52.39 | Harlekin | gb2: every tried it? |
| 17:52.41 | Harlekin | .-) |
| 17:52.48 | gb2 | not on a pda |
| 17:52.51 | treke | gb2: increases binary size |
| 17:52.51 | Harlekin | hehe |
| 17:52.56 | Harlekin | treke: that too |
| 17:53.05 | gb2 | it shouldn't hurt things |
| 17:53.10 | Harlekin | treke: but also during prelink run ( prelinking ) you need a lot of extra space |
| 17:53.10 | treke | a bit of a pain since you have to rerun it after you update |
| 17:53.14 | Harlekin | and a lot of time |
| 17:53.15 | treke | yup |
| 17:53.29 | gb2 | well.. |
| 17:53.36 | gb2 | only when you do library changes |
| 17:53.48 | gb2 | for a fixed product, with few changes.. |
| 17:53.53 | gb2 | it seems like a good idea |
| 17:54.08 | Harlekin | or use the intel compiler |
| 17:54.14 | Harlekin | if you want speed |
| 17:54.37 | gb2 | does intel have an xscale targetted compiler? |
| 17:55.08 | liyang | ARM'll have one won't they? |
| 17:56.21 | gb2 | iirc, the intel compiler is only available for ia32 and ia64 |
| 17:57.00 | gb2 | and a rough estimate of the speedup you get over gcc 2.95 is about 15% |
| 17:57.52 | Harlekin | there is one for xscale |
| 17:58.23 | gb2 | gcc3.x does do better than gcc2.95, especially for c++ |
| 17:59.42 | Harlekin | better coming from a low level |
| 17:59.42 | Harlekin | .-) |
| 18:02.08 | gb2 | the intel compiler doesn't like a lot of code though. a whole bunch of stuff often needs little pedantic changes to make it compile |
| 18:07.43 | T` | anyone here familiar with vxworks ? |
| 18:10.26 | gb2 | i dislike vxworks. does that count? |
| 18:11.45 | *** join/#openembedded chouimat|n7y (~dieu@160.217.215.209) |
| 18:11.49 | chouimat|n7y | hi |
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| 19:15.31 | pb_ | joshua_: morning |
| 19:17.15 | joshua_ | morning pb_ |
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| 19:25.14 | treke | morning pb |
| 19:25.32 | treke | ordered a serial cable today, will send it off to you sometime next week |
| 19:26.34 | pb_ | treke: oh, cool, thanks. I was just about to order one myself. |
| 19:27.00 | treke | hehe. Stupid dell wont ship directly internationally :p |
| 19:27.06 | pb_ | heh |
| 19:35.03 | treke | doesnt sound like Matt Domsch has made any progress |
| 19:43.18 | icefox | how does fakeroot work? |
| 19:44.02 | absentia | ok |
| 19:44.08 | absentia | zaurus 750/760 via the kompany now... |
| 19:44.09 | treke | preload a library to make file functions think they are root |
| 19:45.34 | icefox | nothing like a .1B/s download to bring back fun |
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| 19:52.45 | treke | hmmm. axims apparently have the same crappy SD performance as the 3800 |
| 20:08.34 | pb_ | treke: ah, was Matt Domsch working on linux on axim as well? |
| 20:09.22 | treke | pb_: he was doing some work on it accoding to someone on the handhelds@hh.o list. |
| 20:09.32 | treke | He got stuck while working on the bootldr |
| 20:09.40 | pb_ | aha. |
| 20:09.47 | pb_ | well, maybe I should drop him a line. |
| 20:09.48 | treke | Hi Greg, |
| 20:09.49 | treke | I have a call into Domsch to see where the Dell folks stand. Check back |
| 20:09.49 | treke | with me in a few days. |
| 20:09.54 | treke | cool. |
| 20:10.06 | treke | That was from Len Moskowitz |
| 20:10.11 | pb_ | I saw him in Ottawa a few weeks ago. Should have thought to ask him about the Axim at the time. |
| 20:10.22 | treke | he said in april that he was waiting on a part from the manufacturer |
| 20:10.31 | treke | pb_: It sounds like something he is doing in his spare time |
| 20:10.42 | pb_ | right |
| 20:11.50 | treke | I also emailed demo, so hopefully I'll hear from him in a few days |
| 20:12.16 | treke | dunno what internet access is like in slovakia |
| 20:13.07 | *** join/#openembedded LordVan (~lordvan@62.218.218.165) |
| 20:15.15 | absentia | ok, did it... ordered a 760 |
| 20:19.45 | andersee | absentia: order one for me too |
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| 20:22.31 | *** join/#openembedded treke (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130) |
| 20:22.31 | absentia | I think I want to get 2 external battery packs... 1 deluxe leather case, and a 4GB (or at least 1GB) CF card... then I'll be done. |
| 20:24.03 | gb2 | it doesn't seem like you can hotswap batteries on the 760 |
| 20:24.11 | gb2 | not without external power applied atleast |
| 20:27.01 | pb_ | treke: demo was on #handhelds.org earlier, and yesterday. |
| 20:27.16 | pb_ | he seems to have an adequate connection in .sk :-) |
| 20:29.13 | treke | he |
| 20:29.35 | treke | not adequate enough to be on when I am :p |
| 20:30.39 | treke | hmmm. compaq finally dumped the spring loaded stylus on the 2200 |
| 20:31.06 | absentia | ? |
| 20:31.10 | absentia | cllection of what ? |
| 20:31.20 | absentia | what'sa good stylus that will work with and fit in the slot on the 7x0 ? |
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| 20:35.32 | absentia | ~~ |
| 20:36.21 | absentia | ~/m grr, forgot my password |
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| 21:18.35 | *** mode/#openembedded [+o NeoTron] by ChanServ |
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| 21:21.13 | I440r | hi anyone in here know anything about JTAG ? |
| 21:28.20 | pb_ | I440r: what do you need to know? |
| 21:28.48 | I440r | i sorta wanna get ahold of a copy if IEE 1149.1 :) |
| 21:29.07 | pb_ | ah. well, talk to your local ieee distributor. |
| 21:29.22 | I440r | im developing an umbilical 8051 forth - ill have hosts in both dos and in linux (using my linux forth) |
| 21:29.30 | I440r | and would like to investigate doing debug sessions on the target throught jtag |
| 21:29.48 | I440r | $99 is too much right now - but yes - i would buy it if i could |
| 21:30.06 | I440r | i PAY for what i use - i.e. ive registerd s386/d386 AND the interactive disassembler |
| 21:30.15 | I440r | erm A386/D386 even |
| 21:30.30 | I440r | do you know about JTAG ? |
| 21:30.41 | pb_ | some |
| 21:31.07 | I440r | well, thers alot about it taht i know im not going to need, like boundry scan etc |
| 21:31.19 | I440r | but i would like to know about doing code debug through it |
| 21:32.00 | I440r | ive not worked in like 2 years (9/11 fscked me over big time ?/) |
| 21:33.37 | *** join/#openembedded TheMasterMind1 (~aman@h-66-167-234-142.MCLNVA23.covad.net) |
| 21:33.48 | pb_ | hi aman |
| 21:34.04 | I440r | so is this channel about ALL embedded stuff or linux specific ? |
| 21:34.16 | I440r | i wouldnt mind seeing my Forth used on some embedded linux project |
| 21:34.17 | pb_ | well, it's about the openembedded distribution. |
| 21:34.25 | pb_ | for general embedded linux, you want #elinux |
| 21:34.25 | TheMasterMind1 | hey |
| 21:34.48 | I440r | is open-embedded a new OS ? |
| 21:35.39 | yeiazel | it's the next step after openzaurus |
| 21:35.44 | I440r | or a new distro of linux dedicated to embedded stuff ? |
| 21:36.18 | I440r | ive not actually looked at any embedded linux distros, know very little about them |
| 21:36.27 | I440r | but im sure my Forth would be well suited to them |
| 21:36.40 | I440r | 50k and an almost complete replacement for both Libc and libncurses :) |
| 21:37.10 | I440r | and she compiles 800k of source per second on my amd k6-3/550 |
| 21:41.18 | I440r | heh no response - either you disbelieve or dont care :) |
| 21:42.27 | tiptone | yes man i hear you, but what does it DO :) |
| 21:43.09 | I440r | anything - its a compiler. all you gotta do is code the stuff and..... |
| 21:43.21 | I440r | it can also be used as a script processor |
| 21:47.27 | NeoTron | man, this ac is making me cold |
| 21:47.29 | NeoTron | blowing right at me |
| 21:47.47 | pb_ | NeoTron: use the "off" switch |
| 21:47.56 | pb_ | or aim it in a different direction |
| 21:49.17 | NeoTron | doesn't hav aiming and if I turn it off we'll roast. :) |
| 21:50.07 | pb_ | ah. sounds like you need to go sit in a different part of the room then. |
| 21:52.36 | NeoTron | there |
| 21:52.44 | NeoTron | well, then I couldn't reach the computer. :P |
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| 21:58.13 | treke | You know what this calls for? |
| 21:58.14 | treke | A laptop |
| 21:58.29 | pb_ | genius! |
| 21:59.00 | treke | or or or... an ipaq 5555 |
| 21:59.10 | treke | which is conveniently priced identically to a laptop |
| 21:59.19 | pb_ | heh |
| 21:59.32 | *** part/#openembedded I440r (~I440r@dialup-67.29.221.221.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net) |
| 21:59.53 | absentia | I looked at a libretty ... the $1700 thing.. what was the screen, 1280 x 384 or something rediculous... but I could run freebsd on it... but I decided to get a 760 instead. |
| 22:00.08 | pb_ | yeah, I tend to avoid most units that can run freebsd as well. |
| 22:00.25 | absentia | actually, I prefer it |
| 22:00.33 | absentia | but I wasn't gonna spend $1K more for the priv |
| 22:01.23 | W8TVI | dang it... with out my zaurus, I'm lost! can't remeber passwords to anything |
| 22:01.24 | W8TVI | lol |
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| 22:19.44 | ljp | hmm |
| 22:20.07 | W8TVI | m00 ljp |
| 22:45.55 | _Yog_ | any simpad developers around ? Does anyone has a clue how to use the hardware-keys of a Siemens CL4 ? |
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