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| 00:49.36 | ljp-z | *yawn |
| 01:04.23 | ljp-z | guess I am the only luser.... ;) |
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| 01:07.05 | chouimat | ree |
| 01:07.51 | ljp-z | hey.. |
| 01:08.14 | ljp-z | its another luser like me that has no life |
| 01:08.38 | ljp-z | ;D |
| 01:09.48 | chouimat | ljp-z: I'm getting bored and beside it''s rainy like hell here |
| 01:10.45 | ljp-z | i am watching history channel, irc with my z and dev on my laptop ssh to my dev box |
| 01:11.13 | chouimat | and I will lost my palm m125 next week ... but I will got a nice little Zire71 ;) |
| 01:12.43 | ljp-z | you are planning to lose it? |
| 01:13.50 | chouimat | ljp-z: I just developed an app on it and I don't have time to test it on a more recent device so we sold it to the customer |
| 01:14.04 | ljp-z | hmmm |
| 01:14.34 | chouimat | ljp-z: did you saw the spec of the zire71? |
| 01:14.39 | ljp-z | got qtopia building on buildroot here |
| 01:14.50 | ljp-z | no I havent |
| 01:15.24 | chouimat | omap 144mhz |
| 01:15.31 | ljp-z | thinking I should create a 5000d image |
| 01:17.38 | chouimat | ljp-z: 320x320 65536 colors display ... integrated camera |
| 01:18.02 | ljp-z | a camera? what resolution? |
| 01:18.31 | chouimat | 640x480 max |
| 01:20.24 | chouimat | ljp-z: I have the spec pdf here |
| 01:20.32 | ljp-z | those are cheap |
| 01:20.49 | chouimat | ljp-z: 450cad |
| 01:22.52 | ljp-z | oh I guess I was looking at the $99 zire |
| 01:23.33 | ljp-z | and realplayer |
| 01:26.25 | chouimat | ljp-z: nice little thing just to bad only 16mb of ram |
| 01:28.17 | ljp-z | like my 5000d |
| 01:28.47 | chouimat | ljp-z: 16/16 rom? |
| 01:31.00 | ljp-z | i think so |
| 01:40.56 | ljp-z | opera onsharp has difficulties with qt docs |
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| 04:02.40 | noda | Moo! |
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| 11:49.36 | yeiazel | where can I see/read an overview of the things specific to the kernel in a PDA ? what the patches do, etc ? |
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| 13:29.09 | ljp_laptop | kergoth really needs to get homie net |
| 13:29.33 | ljp_laptop | so I can pester him all the time |
| 13:34.02 | HCl | hmm |
| 13:34.16 | HCl | how do you setup lircd on the zaurus? |
| 13:34.23 | HCl | i dont seem to be able to get it to work.. |
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| 13:51.19 | HCl | hm |
| 13:51.32 | HCl | i got this semi self made qtopia program.. |
| 13:51.51 | HCl | and it refuses to link against the buildroot's libraries.. it works with sharps.. any idea? |
| 13:54.46 | ljp_laptop | whats the error? |
| 13:55.04 | HCl | tons of unresolved symbols against standard qt |
| 13:56.34 | ljp_laptop | qt or qte? |
| 13:56.58 | HCl | qte |
| 13:57.10 | ljp_laptop | opie? |
| 13:57.27 | HCl | yea.. |
| 13:57.33 | HCl | /home/HCl/src/drawings/main.cpp:29: undefined reference to `QPEApplication::QPEA |
| 13:57.37 | HCl | pplication(int &, char **, QApplication::Type)' |
| 13:58.10 | ljp_laptop | #include <qpe/qpplication.h> ?? |
| 13:58.13 | HCl | so er... wtf? :/ |
| 13:58.18 | ljp_laptop | qerr |
| 13:58.23 | ljp_laptop | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:58.29 | HCl | it is included. |
| 13:58.40 | HCl | the source isnt bad, it links against sharp's libraries |
| 13:58.45 | HCl | just not against oz's |
| 13:58.50 | ljp_laptop | ohmm |
| 14:00.44 | yeiazel | where can I get some information about the embedix kernel patch ? |
| 14:01.14 | ljp_laptop | from zaurus.com |
| 14:04.26 | *** join/#openembedded mickeyl|away (mickeyl@gandalf.tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de) |
| 14:04.56 | mickeyl|away | yeiazel: you might want to read arm-linux mailing list archives |
| 14:06.14 | yeiazel | I'm afraid I don't have enough time to browse the ml archives :/ |
| 14:07.32 | HCl | where's kergoth when you need him. |
| 14:07.35 | mickeyl | well then... you won't have success diving into that then |
| 14:07.49 | mickeyl | you can't learn things without time |
| 14:08.10 | mickeyl | HCl: he has no internet @ home. what's your problem? |
| 14:08.32 | HCl | mickeyl: i got a program that'll link against the standard sharp libraries, but not against the buildroots |
| 14:08.57 | mickeyl | exact error please |
| 14:09.06 | yeiazel | I don't really want to 'learn'. it's just for a line or two on a slide during a presentation |
| 14:09.26 | mickeyl | yeiazel: oh. ok then. i recently came over a good website... wait a minute |
| 14:09.28 | yeiazel | just want to know what it's made for |
| 14:09.30 | yeiazel | ok |
| 14:09.33 | HCl | /home/HCl/src/drawings/main.cpp:29: undefined reference to `QPEApplication::QPEA |
| 14:09.35 | HCl | pplication(int &, char **, QApplication::Type)' |
| 14:09.59 | mickeyl | the whole gcc line please |
| 14:10.09 | HCl | what i execute? |
| 14:10.12 | mickeyl | yes |
| 14:11.01 | HCl | arm-linux-gcc -o drawings main.o sketches.o colorbutton.o colortoolbar.o toolbar.o drawarea.o pencil.o colordialog.o drawtool.o bucket.o eraser.o drawtoolbutton.o colorpick.o moc_sketches.o moc_colorbutton.o moc_colortoolbar.o moc_toolbar.o moc_drawarea.o moc_pencil.o moc_colordialog.o moc_drawtool.o moc_bucket.o moc_eraser.o moc_drawtoolbutton.o moc_colorpick.o -L/tmp/buildroot/output/staging/target/lib -lqpe -lqte -lpng12 -ljpeg -lz |
| 14:11.36 | HCl | with -L/opt/Qtopia/sharp/lib (where i keep the sharp libs) it'll link. |
| 14:12.06 | mickeyl | hmm... do you have access to the source? |
| 14:12.10 | mickeyl | seems so |
| 14:12.16 | HCl | ofcourse, its my program |
| 14:12.47 | mickeyl | yeiazel: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/ is pretty good |
| 14:13.29 | yeiazel | thanks |
| 14:13.50 | mickeyl | HCI: strange. that constructor is there. shouldn't give a reference error. |
| 14:13.59 | mickeyl | class QPEApplication : public QApplication |
| 14:13.59 | mickeyl | { |
| 14:14.00 | mickeyl | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:14.00 | mickeyl | public: |
| 14:14.00 | mickeyl | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:14.00 | mickeyl | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:14.02 | HCl | i know... yet it does.. |
| 14:14.18 | HCl | strange thing is it links fine against sharp's |
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| 14:15.48 | HCl | so yea... wtf? |
| 14:16.34 | ljp-z | hmmm |
| 14:16.58 | yeiazel | I don't find an answer to my question... that is... "what does the embedix patch do ?" :/ |
| 14:17.13 | yeiazel | or 'what is embedix ?' would be better |
| 14:18.26 | ljp-z | it does numerous things specific to zaurus devices |
| 14:20.25 | HCl | mickeyl: any ideas. |
| 14:20.36 | yeiazel | ie ? |
| 14:20.40 | HCl | i know it shouldnt give a reference error, but it does. |
| 14:20.54 | yeiazel | I have understood rmk, np, but not really embedix :/ |
| 14:24.49 | yeiazel | (I'm not a kernel hacker, nor a developer...) |
| 14:28.20 | ljp-z | hmm cant seem to write to sd on sharp rpm that runs nonroot |
| 14:28.31 | HCl | found the problem... oz libraries are compiled with gcc 3.2, my program with gcc 2.9 |
| 14:28.43 | HCl | why the hell arent they backwards compatible.. |
| 14:29.17 | ljp-z | hehehe. caise they arent |
| 14:29.23 | ljp-z | cause |
| 14:30.39 | HCl | i guess this means i should get a gcc3.2 to work on my zaurus. |
| 14:32.46 | ljp-z | then you wont get to run any sharp rom apps |
| 14:33.13 | HCl | well, that'd be already the case then, dont you think? o.o |
| 14:33.26 | HCl | i already run a system compiled with gcc3 on my zaurus |
| 14:33.47 | HCl | but gcc has been a bitch with installing.. |
| 14:37.10 | ljp-z | so then, install xtools on desktop |
| 14:37.24 | ljp-z | bbiab |
| 14:37.32 | HCl | xtools? |
| 14:38.48 | mickeyl | yeiazel: where's the problem? each extraversion is more device-specific. rmk-np just doesn't contain the necessary stuff for the zaurus custom chips. |
| 14:39.27 | yeiazel | ok, then it's just some improvements regarding embedding linux ? |
| 14:39.45 | yeiazel | does it also contain stuff for the sound chip, etc ? |
| 14:39.48 | mickeyl | well... wouldn't say improvement - it's a neccesity. |
| 14:39.51 | mickeyl | yes |
| 14:39.54 | yeiazel | ok |
| 14:40.00 | mickeyl | rmk would not run on Zaurus. period |
| 14:40.08 | yeiazel | ok, thanks |
| 14:40.12 | mickeyl | or if it would run you wouldn't have a touchscreen etc. |
| 14:40.18 | yeiazel | oh ok |
| 14:40.21 | mickeyl | :) |
| 14:40.43 | yeiazel | that would fit the presentation :) |
| 14:40.52 | mickeyl | SD, LEDs, Battery loader |
| 14:40.58 | mickeyl | keyboard |
| 14:41.02 | mickeyl | that's about it. |
| 14:41.06 | yeiazel | ok |
| 14:41.19 | yeiazel | but embedix is not only for zaurus, right ? |
| 14:42.08 | mickeyl | embedix as a product seems not to be, but then again each device needs seperate patches |
| 14:42.28 | yeiazel | ok |
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| 15:59.56 | ljp-z | crazy |
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| 16:26.04 | ljp_laptop | hmmmpft |
| 16:26.09 | mickeyl | ? |
| 16:27.33 | ljp_laptop | do you know if opie has anything specific for c700 ? |
| 16:28.39 | mickeyl | harlekin implemented a bit in qpeapplication.cpp re. sizing |
| 16:32.18 | ljp_laptop | oh. if thats all. thats good |
| 16:32.57 | ljp_laptop | warwick told me they might use tslib in next version of qte |
| 16:33.31 | mickeyl | wise move |
| 16:33.48 | ljp_laptop | I asked him about using kernel keymap, but hasnt answered yet |
| 16:44.24 | gruemelmonster | and there is a bigger iconset for it... |
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| 18:30.11 | ljp_laptop_ | ok, uemacs builds in buildroot |
| 18:30.34 | mewyn | eep |
| 18:32.42 | ljp_laptop_ | yes, you too can now enjoy uemacs on your device! |
| 18:32.58 | pb_ | yay |
| 18:33.08 | ljp_laptop_ | forget vim! forget joe! forget nano and pico! pale imitation! |
| 18:33.31 | pb_ | (ljp foams at the mouth) |
| 18:33.54 | ljp_laptop_ | hehehe |
| 18:34.10 | ljp_laptop_ | its the uemacs from kernel.org |
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| 18:51.47 | ljp_laptop_ | hmm, needs to make a proper ipkg now |
| 19:00.28 | _Psycho | talking about ipkg, where is my image ! |
| 19:00.35 | _Psycho | ill demande justice ! |
| 19:01.12 | ljp_laptop_ | heh. right here. but I doubt it works yet |
| 19:01.32 | _Psycho | hehe ill wait ;) |
| 19:01.36 | ljp_laptop_ | and it needs uemacs first |
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| 20:02.03 | Dessimat0r | whats going on with OpenEmbedded these days? Has development stalled? |
| 20:02.14 | ljp_laptop_ | no |
| 20:02.17 | Dessimat0r | ah |
| 20:04.48 | Dessimat0r | its just that the last released bzImage + initrd.bin was on the 28th March (http://www.openzaurus.org/official/3.2/). Looking back ages, there used to be a new release every week |
| 20:05.12 | treke|home | It just means the next release is taking longer |
| 20:05.22 | Dessimat0r | ah |
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| 20:09.09 | ljp_laptop_ | actually, all opie and oz/oe developers have moved on to pocketpc development |
| 20:09.23 | treke|home | oh yeah. There is also that |
| 20:09.27 | Dessimat0r | :/ |
| 20:09.28 | ljp_laptop_ | we realize that this linux stuff is just a fad |
| 20:09.44 | treke|home | we've all bought dell axims |
| 20:10.55 | Dessimat0r | Liar ;) |
| 20:11.09 | Dessimat0r | I won't believe it, heh |
| 20:11.37 | Dessimat0r | PocketPC is still a piece of trash |
| 20:11.46 | treke|home | your loss |
| 20:18.33 | Dessimat0r | what are they actually developing over on PocketPC, then? |
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| 20:22.38 | treke|home | Dessimat0r: porting OPIE apps and libraries over to it |
| 20:22.49 | treke|home | Dessimat0r: so they can dump the linux/qte base |
| 20:24.06 | Dessimat0r | ah |
| 20:24.11 | Dessimat0r | i see ;) |
| 20:25.22 | ljp_laptop_ | ya, opie and qte suxors |
| 20:25.49 | treke|home | I think they finally gave up on the instability of the linux kernel and drivers |
| 20:26.24 | ljp_laptop_ | ya, we want to work on a system that we can't change |
| 20:27.38 | Dessimat0r | I understand now |
| 20:27.40 | Dessimat0r | ;) |
| 20:29.34 | treke|home | good |
| 20:29.49 | Dessimat0r | Has anyone tried flashing PocketPC onto the Zaurus? |
| 20:31.24 | ljp_laptop_ | no. we dont even like the zaurus device |
| 20:32.01 | ljp_laptop_ | too powerful. users dont need that much |
| 20:32.29 | ljp_laptop_ | you could try, though |
| 20:32.43 | ljp_laptop_ | woot! uemacs ipks! |
| 20:34.20 | ljp_laptop_ | finally, I _real_ editor |
| 20:34.37 | ljp_laptop_ | a, not I |
| 20:34.57 | ljp_laptop_ | ok, back to where I was last.... postinst |
| 20:35.23 | Dessimat0r | You say you think the Zaurus has too much power for the average user, then you say that you have all bought Axims, which have around the same spec, but without a keyboard |
| 20:35.41 | treke|home | Dessimat0r: Exactly. No worthless keyboard |
| 20:36.08 | Dessimat0r | But the keyboard is not worthless - its an invaluable input tool ...? |
| 20:36.17 | Dessimat0r | I mean, its the fastest method of entry |
| 20:36.19 | treke|home | Nope. |
| 20:36.19 | treke|home | worthless |
| 20:36.32 | pb_ | Dessimat0r: sounds like you have been taken in by Sharp's propaganda there. |
| 20:36.44 | pb_ | Dessimat0r: need to learn to see through that kind of thing. |
| 20:37.03 | Dessimat0r | But I once had a Palm m100 without a keyboard, it was much slower |
| 20:37.07 | Dessimat0r | to enter data |
| 20:37.38 | ljp_laptop_ | exactly. gets people to slow down and really think about what they are doing |
| 20:37.40 | Dessimat0r | I mean, I used the m100 much more than the Zaurus I own today.. ;) |
| 20:37.47 | Dessimat0r | lol |
| 20:38.42 | treke|home | the problem with they keyboard is you have to reposition your grip on it to switch between using the stylus and using the keyboard |
| 20:39.36 | HCl | YAY! |
| 20:39.58 | ljp_laptop_ | hmmm |
| 20:40.12 | ljp_laptop_ | I would be more amazed with gcc4 working on the zaurus |
| 20:40.32 | treke|home | it probably is faster for extended input sessions, but from my use varely rarely do large amounts of data get inputed at any one time |
| 20:40.45 | ljp_laptop_ | slacker |
| 20:40.48 | mickeyl | c7x0 is another situation though |
| 20:40.56 | mickeyl | no need to reposition there |
| 20:40.58 | Dessimat0r | gcc4? there is no gcc4 |
| 20:40.58 | ljp_laptop_ | probably the sam eas your desktop/laptop |
| 20:41.07 | ljp_laptop_ | exactly |
| 20:41.12 | Dessimat0r | heh |
| 20:41.31 | treke|home | mickeyl: seems even more dramatic a difference there |
| 20:41.36 | HCl | well, at least i can develop programs in the train now :P |
| 20:41.45 | ljp_laptop_ | hmmm, M$ decided I nned to start receiving MSDN magazine |
| 20:41.47 | treke|home | although I've not had the opportunity to use a 700 |
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| 20:42.06 | mickeyl | treke: well... me neither ;) |
| 20:42.19 | mickeyl | treke: oh i tried one on CeBIT |
| 20:42.25 | mickeyl | treke: and i really liked it. |
| 20:42.33 | treke|home | mickeyl: It seems to me that you'd need to use either one hand to support it and the other to type, or set it on a desk of some kind |
| 20:42.50 | ljp_laptop_ | I might be getting a loaner c700] |
| 20:43.10 | mickeyl | treke: right. desk usage preferred. or you make the tablet-pc-move and use it without the keyboard ;) |
| 20:43.38 | mickeyl | ljp_laptop_: try to convince them to get you a c750... |
| 20:43.41 | mickeyl | :) |
| 20:43.47 | ljp_laptop_ | :) ok |
| 20:44.02 | ljp_laptop_ | although they have c700's.. |
| 20:44.12 | mickeyl | ljp_laptop_: i want to believe that the c750 is fast enough for qt3... that's why. |
| 20:44.43 | ljp_laptop_ | I would try gcc3 for it, but I dont think qtopia will compile with it |
| 20:44.59 | treke|home | ljp_laptop_: tell warwick to get to work on qt/e 3.1 |
| 20:45.35 | mickeyl | qt/e 3.1 is available isn't it? |
| 20:45.39 | mickeyl | tell him to work on 3.2 :) |
| 20:46.05 | ljp_laptop_ | I asked him why qtopia is not for qte3.. he said performance issues with qte3 |
| 20:46.28 | Dessimat0r | So.. you'd prefer to use Opie, but on the PocketPC OS, instead of Linux? |
| 20:46.34 | mickeyl | yes. and I still hope that is not the full story :) |
| 20:46.45 | mickeyl | eeek |
| 20:46.47 | ljp_laptop_ | probably not |
| 20:46.53 | treke|home | I dont think he understands that we were just pulling his pecker |
| 20:46.58 | Dessimat0r | heh |
| 20:47.00 | ljp_laptop_ | hehehee |
| 20:47.03 | ljp_laptop_ | I hate linux |
| 20:47.12 | ljp_laptop_ | everything is a file! good god |
| 20:47.21 | treke|home | ljp_laptop_: tell him to fix qte then |
| 20:47.37 | ljp_laptop_ | they are currently working on qte4 |
| 20:48.04 | ljp_laptop_ | most likely will skip qte3 with qtopia |
| 20:48.20 | Dessimat0r | ah, so it was all a lie? You had me confused then, heh |
| 20:48.32 | ljp_laptop_ | no lie. we hate linux |
| 20:48.34 | treke|home | ljp_laptop_: Just so you know, if they dont make qte4 work, we will kill you |
| 20:48.34 | mickeyl | which still doesn't mean we must follow this route |
| 20:48.37 | Dessimat0r | ah |
| 20:48.47 | Dessimat0r | I hate Linux as well |
| 20:48.54 | treke|home | ljp_laptop_: So uhm what are they gonna do when qt4 comes out? |
| 20:48.59 | treke|home | release qte5? |
| 20:49.05 | Dessimat0r | I tried Gentoo, but its infuriating |
| 20:49.19 | treke|home | infuriating isnt the proper word |
| 20:49.21 | ljp_laptop_ | I would say, branch opie for qte3 and see if there's performance issues |
| 20:49.24 | Dessimat0r | heh |
| 20:49.26 | treke|home | the word you want is "crap" |
| 20:49.27 | Dessimat0r | yeah |
| 20:49.38 | mickeyl | ljp_laptop_: that's what i mean. |
| 20:49.46 | Dessimat0r | You all used to be a bunch of Debian evangelists, too ;) |
| 20:49.48 | mickeyl | let's do it and then judge. |
| 20:49.52 | ljp_laptop_ | I think the problem is with qtextedit |
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| 20:50.03 | mickeyl | qtextedit? where is that used ? |
| 20:50.19 | ljp_laptop_ | there is already a qte3 branch started I think, or is that gcc3 |
| 20:50.24 | TheMasterMind1 | treke|home: right on |
| 20:50.27 | treke|home | ljp_laptop_: I would think it would a better idea to fix qtextedit rather than skip qte3 all together |
| 20:51.05 | ljp_laptop_ | well, not real sure it is qtextedit |
| 20:51.22 | Dessimat0r | http://syllable.sourceforge.net/ looks like a good 'successor' to Linux, as a desktop OS |
| 20:51.24 | mickeyl | ljp_laptop_: well... I will take a look at it. i noticed that I suck in fixing other's bugs so I will do what I can best and that is writing new stuff. |
| 20:51.34 | Dessimat0r | The people who make it heat Linux |
| 20:51.37 | Dessimat0r | *hate |
| 20:51.59 | treke|home | Dessimat0r: good for them |
| 20:52.01 | ljp_laptop_ | bsd? |
| 20:52.03 | ljp_laptop_ | :D |
| 20:52.12 | Dessimat0r | they made hteir own kernel and shit |
| 20:52.14 | Dessimat0r | *their |
| 20:52.18 | Dessimat0r | not based on anything |
| 20:52.20 | ljp_laptop_ | ahh bsd |
| 20:52.37 | Dessimat0r | and no sucky XFree86 ;) |
| 20:52.49 | Dessimat0r | How long ago did you try it? |
| 20:52.56 | mickeyl | imho the last invention since linux was beos. |
| 20:53.09 | treke|home | Dessimat0r: some time last year |
| 20:53.11 | Dessimat0r | PalmOS 6 looks sweet |
| 20:53.15 | mickeyl | and that fscking j.l.g killed it |
| 20:53.18 | Dessimat0r | ah, its greatly evolved since then |
| 20:53.33 | Dessimat0r | http://syllable.sourceforge.net/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/baseinstall/new_04.jpg |
| 20:53.45 | ljp_laptop_ | I still have a beos partition/drive, but not in any box |
| 20:54.10 | mickeyl | ljp_laptop_: that was really cool. after all, the first GUI API written in C++. |
| 20:54.14 | Dessimat0r | So how far has Syllable come along, in terms of features, since Syllable 0.4.0? It's been a over year since it was released - do you feel that a year's worth of development is evident in it? |
| 20:54.17 | Dessimat0r | Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't! In all truth if you install Syllable 0.4.4 alongside AtheOS 0.3.7, you'll see a lot of differences. Syllable has far more drivers, more GUI widgets and more applications. Things like Raw Sockets, DHCP, CD-ROM & DVD support, video overlays are a big improvement. The major parts of AtheOS/Syllable, such as the appserver & kernel, have been largely static though. We've all been sp |
| 20:54.40 | Dessimat0r | heh |
| 20:54.45 | treke|home | it does things the way I like it |
| 20:54.52 | ljp_laptop_ | I was just starting beos app dev, when they dropped the whole beos |
| 20:54.55 | Dessimat0r | So basically you're aiming to provide an alternative operating system based around the same usage guidelines as Windows, but with the openness and freedom of Linux? Ie, no messy text-based configuration, but still open source? |
| 20:54.55 | Dessimat0r | Yes. I feel that Linux is a bit of a mess. It works, but you can see the duct tape holding it together; in some places there are gaping holes. Linux is usable along as you stick to the defaults and don't tinker with it. If you touch something you don't understand completely, it'll break in odd ways. Trying to fix Linux isn't my idea of fun! I don't think Syllable will have the same usage guidelines of Windows, but |
| 20:55.37 | mickeyl | ljp_laptop_: sounds familiar to me. i was just reading through the media kit basics for designing a midi/audio sequencer application but then... |
| 20:55.53 | treke|home | Dessimat0r: Rather than pasting the entire article |
| 20:55.57 | treke|home | Dessimat0r: just post a link |
| 20:56.08 | Dessimat0r | good idea |
| 20:56.10 | Dessimat0r | heh |
| 20:56.13 | Dessimat0r | http://www.neonerds.net/viewthread.php?tid=184 |
| 20:56.16 | treke|home | most of us have these things called web browsers |
| 20:56.39 | Dessimat0r | yeah, i was just making out points ;) I was only gonna post those two paragraphs |
| 20:57.47 | Dessimat0r | I wish that someone would shoot the ALSA developers |
| 20:58.19 | ljp_laptop_ | mickeyl: my first project was porting the emacs for beos to the new os.. |
| 20:58.56 | mickeyl | emacs... oh well ;) |
| 21:01.00 | Dessimat0r | http://www.palminfocenter.com/images/possible_palm_os6_ss_l.jpg |
| 21:01.20 | mickeyl | Dessimat0r: this is nice |
| 21:01.26 | Dessimat0r | yup |
| 21:01.32 | mickeyl | we can learn a lot from Palm re: gui design for small screens |
| 21:01.35 | Dessimat0r | I drooled when I first saw it ;) |
| 21:01.37 | mickeyl | opie is still too chunky |
| 21:01.56 | ljp_laptop_ | ya, scrollbars too fat.. |
| 21:02.01 | ljp_laptop_ | titlebar too fat |
| 21:02.03 | treke|home | mickeyl: I dont imagine that will change til qt/e is dumped :p |
| 21:02.10 | mickeyl | treke: why not? |
| 21:02.20 | mickeyl | treke: IMHO it is just a matter of a proper qt/e style |
| 21:03.03 | treke|home | style could partly do it. The titlle bare and menu bars need to be done away with also |
| 21:03.35 | mickeyl | treke|home: true that. we have the chance to fix all these problems in opie 2.x |
| 21:03.44 | Dessimat0r | something I've noticed, is that there are no 'design standards' for OPIE apps |
| 21:03.52 | Dessimat0r | it seems like a botched job in places |
| 21:04.13 | mickeyl | Dessimat0r: true. there has been no one volunteering to create one. also on the todo list for post-1.0 |
| 21:04.29 | mickeyl | as well as a few higher-level widgets supporting a decent opie-style |
| 21:04.43 | mickeyl | e.g. combined icon/listview |
| 21:04.55 | mickeyl | standard overlay box etc. |
| 21:05.09 | treke|home | mickeyl: What i'd like to see in Opie2 would be something like an ODialog that handles scrolling automatically |
| 21:05.37 | mickeyl | treke: yes. very important! |
| 21:05.41 | mickeyl | also the use of standard qt message boxes is totally ridicolous. they even don't word wrap |
| 21:05.58 | treke|home | so that we can be rid of these dialog that are half covered by the input methods |
| 21:06.04 | mickeyl | yes |
| 21:06.22 | mickeyl | please if you have a minute, add your ideas to the following two pages: |
| 21:06.25 | mickeyl | http://opie.handhelds.org/wiki/index.php/OpieFutureFeatures |
| 21:06.38 | mickeyl | http://opie.handhelds.org/wiki/index.php/NewLibOpie |
| 21:06.50 | mickeyl | these are atm. our most important roadmap pages |
| 21:07.00 | treke|home | hmmm |
| 21:07.03 | mickeyl | well... more ideas than roadmap... but a glimpse of the future ;) |
| 21:07.26 | treke|home | Outliner using optional same database as todos and special category <-- I could probably do that once the todos db is done |
| 21:08.43 | Dessimat0r | I'd support ditching Linux, and building a new OS from the ground up for embedded systems, but then you'd have loads of problems, like lack of expertise, and driver support |
| 21:09.13 | Dessimat0r | much like what Palm and Microsoft did |
| 21:09.31 | treke|home | Dessimat0r: Why bother? I can think of a couple of things that are linux problems, but not much |
| 21:10.55 | treke|home | 1) Power management is still a bit trouble some |
| 21:11.02 | treke|home | 2) Repartitioning memory |
| 21:12.40 | ljp_laptop_ | 3) lack of cool people to work on it |
| 21:12.43 | Dessimat0r | heh |
| 21:13.28 | Dessimat0r | would you say the ideal thing to do would make it look and feel like PalmOS? Could you actually do this using Linux? |
| 21:13.44 | treke|home | Dessimat0r: Someone already has |
| 21:13.58 | mickeyl | Dessimat0r: of course you can if you really want that |
| 21:14.05 | Dessimat0r | ah |
| 21:14.13 | mickeyl | Dessimat0r: the framebuffer is all yours. implement whatever GUI you like to |
| 21:14.31 | mickeyl | pretty good base library: directFB etc. |
| 21:15.04 | treke|home | http://www.linuxda.com/images/screenshots/Schedule.gif |
| 21:15.10 | treke|home | http://www.linuxda.com/images/screenshots/Memo.gif |
| 21:15.40 | mickeyl | nice. tiny but clean |
| 21:15.50 | Dessimat0r | This is black and white - the Zaurus has a colour screen ;) Even Palms with colour screens make use of it, heh |
| 21:16.03 | treke|home | Dessimat0r: Of course they do |
| 21:16.16 | treke|home | Dessimat0r: That was written for devices without color screens |
| 21:16.21 | Dessimat0r | ah |
| 21:16.23 | treke|home | do you somehow believe they couldnt colorize it? |
| 21:16.31 | Dessimat0r | no no, not at all |
| 21:16.34 | Dessimat0r | I was just saying |
| 21:16.52 | treke|home | that was written to work on the PalmIII, they didnt have much hardware to work with |
| 21:16.55 | Dessimat0r | ah |
| 21:18.24 | treke|home | They also dont use QT which eliminates certain issues for them |
| 21:19.06 | Dessimat0r | I see ;) |
| 21:19.12 | mickeyl | well... qt is not the root of all evil. basing a product on a demo is the root of all evil :D |
| 21:19.29 | Dessimat0r | yeah, because QT isn't open.. :/ |
| 21:19.34 | treke|home | mickeyl: Right. QT isnt the problem, it just brings some backage |
| 21:19.35 | treke|home | Dessimat0r: QT is open |
| 21:19.48 | treke|home | s/backage/baggage |
| 21:19.52 | mickeyl | yup |
| 21:20.06 | Dessimat0r | Hrm, I always thought it was closed. Has it got a restrictive license? |
| 21:20.12 | treke|home | Dessimat0r: No |
| 21:20.16 | mickeyl | Dessimat0r: actually it is dual licensed. |
| 21:20.19 | Dessimat0r | ah |
| 21:20.42 | treke|home | mickeyl: At the momemnt it's one of the best options |
| 21:21.28 | mickeyl | treke: yes. and i must confess most parts of qt are really designed (as opposed to qpe...). so i like to program in a luxury environemnt with reasonable abstractions. |
| 21:22.26 | mickeyl | I'm a strong supporter for the Qt/E backend. But if I can decide on my own, I'd ditch the complete QPE backend and write that new. |
| 21:23.29 | mickeyl | true, but that is nothing we can't cure with g++3 and prelink. |
| 21:23.37 | treke|home | well |
| 21:23.50 | treke|home | g++3 and prelink are better, but it still isnt cured :p |
| 21:23.54 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 21:24.06 | mickeyl | ok, then c++ itself must be improved, but that's a whole other story |
| 21:24.12 | treke|home | yup |
| 21:27.40 | Dessimat0r | mmm.. BeOS would be sweet, but its soul belongs to Palm |
| 21:29.09 | treke|home | closed source os |
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| 21:35.02 | ljp_laptop_ | os bigot |
| 21:35.11 | treke|home | not at all |
| 21:35.13 | Dessimat0r | lol |
| 21:35.26 | treke|home | I have nothing at all against beos as an os |
| 21:35.47 | treke|home | I dont like using it, but thats personal preference |
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| 22:27.53 | mickeyl | n8 |
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| 22:56.52 | Twiun | hi guys |
| 22:58.49 | Dessimat0r | yo |
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