| 00:10.17 | treke | maybe you should leave also |
| 00:10.26 | tux_mike | woo! the system! |
| 00:10.37 | kergoth | where's your head at? |
| 00:10.46 | kergoth | treke: not a bad idea, cept theres nothing to do at home either |
| 00:10.58 | treke | kergoth: dont get used to working late |
| 00:11.01 | kergoth | i should buy a tv card, so i have tv |
| 00:11.09 | treke | its too easy |
| 00:11.14 | tux_mike | kergoth: and perhaps a DSS system? :) |
| 00:11.16 | kergoth | treke: why not? I'll just switch to a late schedule. flex hours |
| 00:11.36 | kergoth | tux_mike: not a bad idea. the apartment supports that, no need to get a dish, just pay the cost for the reciever or rent it |
| 00:12.06 | tux_mike | cool |
| 00:12.13 | tux_mike | i love my dss |
| 00:12.16 | kergoth | yeah, less to worry about |
| 00:12.35 | tux_mike | is it dish networks or directv? |
| 00:12.48 | kergoth | i think its directv |
| 00:12.52 | tux_mike | woo! |
| 00:13.11 | tux_mike | puke |
| 00:13.14 | treke | eh |
| 00:13.15 | treke | it works |
| 00:13.20 | tux_mike | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:14.24 | kergoth | tux_mike: in the morning, i assume? heh |
| 00:14.54 | tux_mike | well, i got here at 2 and he was here |
| 00:15.02 | treke | kergoth: how many speakers do you have on your pc? |
| 00:15.07 | tux_mike | and it's 7:15 and he's still here |
| 00:15.13 | tux_mike | has this man no life?! |
| 00:15.38 | kergoth | treke: long story. i had 4 speakers, but my sb live went bad, so i'm using this onboard crap.. so the other two speakers dont do me any good anymore |
| 00:15.42 | kergoth | i had my box open right |
| 00:15.45 | kergoth | and i went to school |
| 00:15.48 | kergoth | this was years ago |
| 00:15.56 | treke | ok |
| 00:16.00 | kergoth | and came home, and the soda that was on the desk was dumped into the box |
| 00:16.03 | kergoth | fucking cat |
| 00:16.03 | kergoth | :D |
| 00:16.07 | treke | so 4 |
| 00:16.14 | kergoth | toasted a geforce 2 gts, sb live, ram |
| 00:16.17 | kergoth | man that blew |
| 00:16.31 | kergoth | 4 but only 2 in use |
| 00:16.32 | kergoth | why? |
| 00:16.33 | kergoth | heh |
| 00:17.01 | treke | kergoth: because I'm trying to figure out if the surround sound wintv works in linux :p |
| 00:17.11 | kergoth | ah |
| 00:19.25 | tux_mike | kergoth: is there a way to clear all vars in a class object in py? |
| 00:21.06 | kergoth | tux_mike: just set their values in the constructor rather than initializing their values |
| 00:21.20 | treke | hrmm this is going to be fun |
| 00:21.23 | kergoth | tux_mike: then you can call the constructor directly whenever you need to reset the variable contents |
| 00:21.27 | kergoth | i.e. |
| 00:21.30 | kergoth | def __init__(self): |
| 00:21.36 | kergoth | \tself.myvar = [] |
| 00:21.40 | kergoth | what have you |
| 00:21.52 | treke | kergoth: email me your address |
| 00:22.07 | kergoth | treke: email addy? |
| 00:22.09 | cyn | kergoth: in all fairness, that was the fucking owners fault :P |
| 00:22.13 | treke | kergoth: no |
| 00:22.25 | kergoth | treke: nono, whats *your* email addy |
| 00:22.28 | kergoth | treke: i got the question |
| 00:22.28 | treke | oh |
| 00:22.31 | kergoth | eheh |
| 00:22.31 | treke | greg@treke.net |
| 00:22.33 | kergoth | cyn: yeah yeah i know |
| 00:22.38 | kergoth | cyn: i shouldnt have left the box open :) |
| 00:22.44 | cyn | fortunately I've only fried a keyboard thus far |
| 00:22.50 | treke | I was gonna say, I dont think UPS does delivery via email yet |
| 00:22.54 | kergoth | i go through keyboards like you wouldnt believe |
| 00:22.56 | cyn | I fried my laptop with propel fitness water about a year ago |
| 00:22.58 | kergoth | they just hate me |
| 00:23.07 | cyn | but I bust it open and cleaned it real good and let it sit for 3 days and it was fine |
| 00:23.16 | cyn | thank god |
| 00:23.23 | cyn | not too much had gotten in |
| 00:23.43 | cyn | so now my laptop's on one side of the L desk and my drink stays on the other side ALWAYS |
| 00:23.50 | cyn | ... which is how I managed to fry my kb haha |
| 00:24.04 | cyn | but better a $20 kb than a ~$1000 laptop |
| 00:24.31 | kergoth | ah thats right |
| 00:24.32 | kergoth | heh |
| 00:24.39 | kergoth | damn moving |
| 00:25.39 | treke | hehe |
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| 00:50.37 | kergoth | yay |
| 00:50.48 | kergoth | addhandler works, .oe and .oeclass files can now define custom event handlers |
| 00:50.52 | kergoth | :D |
| 00:55.41 | *** join/#openembedded nagROM (~sdfs@cpe-66-189-42-24.ma.charter.com) |
| 00:57.35 | ljp_laptop | thats inconceivable! |
| 01:02.02 | nagROM | anything happening with oz lately? |
| 01:07.00 | ljp_laptop | nope |
| 01:07.14 | Thelonius | nagROM, oz killed someone this weekend |
| 01:07.17 | Thelonius | in a drunken rage |
| 01:07.30 | nagROM | uhh again? |
| 01:07.33 | ljp_laptop | no, that was opie. opie gone bad.. hahahahhaaa |
| 01:08.39 | nagROM | nice. |
| 01:09.11 | nagROM | the whole zaurus scene seems to be pretty dead. |
| 01:09.37 | nagROM | it blew up for about a week when the new sharp rom was released.. then it died again. |
| 01:09.56 | ljp_laptop | naaa, kergoth doesnt talk as much cause he got a new job |
| 01:10.49 | nagROM | yeh, was just reading about that. congrats to him, wherever he is. |
| 01:10.54 | kergoth | :D |
| 01:11.09 | nagROM | haha. |
| 01:12.00 | nagROM | must be a bit of a culture shock moving from minnesota to texas. |
| 01:12.36 | ljp_laptop | ya, he needs c'boy hat! |
| 01:13.09 | treke | 2and your visa |
| 01:13.09 | kergoth | ljp_laptop: still no news on the visa? |
| 01:13.25 | nagROM | do they make you wear chaps to work? |
| 01:13.32 | kergoth | hehe |
| 01:13.33 | ljp_laptop | no ;( |
| 01:13.38 | kergoth | ljp_laptop: that sucks |
| 01:13.50 | ljp_laptop | ya, it will happen, in time.... |
| 01:13.53 | kergoth | nagROM: no dress code, flex hours. pretty decent. |
| 01:14.10 | ljp_laptop | setting up sprinkler systems in the mean time |
| 01:14.14 | nagROM | hah, i've been unemployed for the past 6 months. |
| 01:14.29 | nagROM | it's the best fun i've had in a while. |
| 01:16.28 | ljp_laptop | aron said his visa to the US took months |
| 01:16.52 | kergoth | aha |
| 01:16.56 | kergoth | the oe bk repos |
| 01:17.03 | kergoth | i've pushed 51 changesets in the past week |
| 01:17.04 | kergoth | jeeze |
| 01:18.01 | ljp_laptop | busy, eh? |
| 01:18.13 | kergoth | apparently :) |
| 01:20.46 | tux_mike | http://homepage.nekobox.org/~spades/pics/2minutes.png which of these packets are not like the others? |
| 01:21.17 | ljp_laptop | you guys see this? http://zaurbot.homelinux.net/ |
| 01:21.51 | tux_mike | lol |
| 01:22.54 | kergoth | thats pretty cool :) |
| 01:23.00 | kergoth | somebody had a lot of time on their hands |
| 01:24.01 | ljp_laptop | hehehe |
| 01:48.03 | kergoth | I need an XM radio at home so i dont have to drag my xm boombox to/from work |
| 01:48.17 | Thelonius | man you gotta love people and their projects |
| 02:05.45 | *** join/#openembedded Com[Plex] (ANGRYMAN@65.217.160.228) |
| 02:07.22 | kergoth | hey Com[Plex] |
| 02:09.22 | tux_mike | not too bad, almost doen with 200L of my parser |
| 02:19.58 | beattie | is there an irc chanel for standard zaurus rom questions? |
| 02:20.06 | kergoth | beattie: #zaurus |
| 02:20.17 | beattie | thanks |
| 02:21.52 | kergoth | np |
| 02:23.56 | Com[Plex] | sup kergoth |
| 02:24.40 | Com[Plex] | trying to flash my zaurus, it works for a while, then spontaneously boots and says an error occured, press control d for normal startup |
| 02:24.46 | kergoth | weird |
| 02:25.38 | Com[Plex] | reset, now it doesnt boot. |
| 02:25.50 | Com[Plex] | gonna try writing the rom onto the cf card again |
| 02:27.34 | Com[Plex] | used the P+d thing and that woke it up, but flashing from within that did the same as before |
| 02:27.49 | Com[Plex] | sucks, considering I just sold it.. |
| 02:28.04 | kergoth | forget to full reset after flashing or somethin? |
| 02:28.46 | Com[Plex] | no no, i did the full reset, and after a full reset it wont boot at all. no power up to screen |
| 02:29.08 | kergoth | does the power light come on with AC on immediately after hitting full reset? |
| 02:29.18 | Com[Plex] | uh. let me check |
| 02:29.36 | Com[Plex] | 5-7 seconds |
| 02:32.06 | Com[Plex] | okay, I tossed the cf card in my other zaurus and Im trying to fsck it. |
| 02:32.16 | Com[Plex] | whats the command again, /dev/huh? |
| 02:32.48 | kergoth | hda1 |
| 02:32.55 | Com[Plex] | bus error |
| 02:33.29 | Com[Plex] | hang on |
| 02:33.41 | kergoth | remember to un mount it first :) |
| 02:33.49 | Com[Plex] | no such devoce |
| 02:33.52 | Com[Plex] | yeah, i did that |
| 02:33.55 | kergoth | dont use cardctl eject |
| 02:33.59 | kergoth | or eject from teh applet |
| 02:34.01 | kergoth | just umouont |
| 02:34.03 | kergoth | umount |
| 02:34.12 | Com[Plex] | umounted first, then I ejected it from applet |
| 02:34.18 | kergoth | dont eject it |
| 02:34.22 | kergoth | its no longer accessable then |
| 02:34.31 | Com[Plex] | oh.. |
| 02:34.38 | Com[Plex] | it said Bus error before.. |
| 02:34.43 | kergoth | odd |
| 02:36.24 | Com[Plex] | umount /dev/hda1 ? or /mnt/cf ? |
| 02:36.31 | kergoth | either |
| 02:36.35 | Com[Plex] | trying agina |
| 02:36.45 | Com[Plex] | bus error |
| 02:36.54 | kergoth | odd |
| 02:37.21 | Com[Plex] | im gonna terminate opie and try again |
| 02:38.04 | *** join/#openembedded Aun (~megadump9@66-65-9-59.nyc.rr.com) |
| 02:38.05 | Com[Plex] | bus error |
| 02:38.34 | kergoth | heh, not your day today eh? |
| 02:38.44 | kergoth | ibot: monday |
| 02:38.44 | | somebody said monday was when everything breaks for no apparent reason, creating so many problems it takes you until friday to get back to normal. a good reason to want to go out and kill people, or a day that no work should be performed due to this phenomenon, or a day requiring the use of large amounts of drugs |
| 02:46.46 | Aun | hello, I'm trying to get my open zaurus to USB with linux. every thing is ready on the linux end but "ifup usbd0" doesn't work... sais "couldn't read interfaces file" any ideas? |
| 02:47.00 | kergoth | #openzaurus is the oz support channel |
| 02:47.05 | kergoth | #openembedded is developer discussion |
| 02:47.19 | Aun | oh, sorry. |
| 02:47.33 | Com[Plex] | retubf a different cf card for the flash. |
| 02:47.45 | kergoth | retubf? :) |
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| 03:46.54 | mewyn | ohno! a lost terminal! |
| 03:47.48 | kergoth | find it |
| 03:48.00 | ljp_laptop | quick! |
| 03:48.43 | mewyn | ok... where the hell did i leave my notes |
| 03:49.00 | mewyn | prolly in my pants pocket... now where did i leave my pants |
| 03:49.26 | kergoth | i never want to hear a guy say that in a channel i'm in. |
| 03:49.29 | ljp_laptop | shoulda had a zaurus |
| 03:49.30 | kergoth | just a policy of mine |
| 03:49.40 | ljp_laptop | hhehehe |
| 03:49.45 | mewyn | i'm wearing other pants |
| 03:49.55 | mewyn | i changed out of one pair for another :P |
| 03:52.21 | Thelonius | lol |
| 03:55.17 | treke|home | kergoth: damn it |
| 03:55.42 | treke|home | you have a problem with people not wearing pants? |
| 03:55.56 | treke|home | thats like racist or something |
| 03:56.20 | beattie | gotta honor diversity |
| 03:57.48 | beattie | even perverts |
| 03:59.06 | treke|home | kergoth: damn. not poldhu support for 2.5 :( |
| 04:02.24 | beattie | hmmmmmm, make clean;make dep;make zImage dose not pick up CONFIG_CMDLINE from .config like I expect....hhhh |
| 04:10.05 | kergoth | beattie: forget make oldconfig? |
| 04:10.15 | kergoth | beattie: the .config -> include/config changes wont occur without it |
| 04:15.01 | chouimat | re |
| 04:15.09 | kergoth | hey chouimat |
| 04:15.30 | mewyn | hrm |
| 04:15.32 | chouimat | kergoth: fucking great show .... |
| 04:15.40 | mewyn | 257 lines now |
| 04:17.18 | chouimat | kergoth: ozzy played 3 horus |
| 04:18.59 | kergoth | chouimat: nice |
| 04:19.14 | treke|home | kergoth: cool. I made the swallow drivers my bitch |
| 04:19.47 | mewyn | and finally, 263. lets see how many errors i get |
| 04:20.40 | ljp_laptop | ozzy... is he still in Rainbow? ;) |
| 04:23.10 | treke|home | fuck still doesnt work. just like in ck1 |
| 04:24.29 | mewyn | fuck. python's scope seems wonky |
| 04:25.04 | chouimat | ljp_laptop: hehe |
| 04:25.10 | kergoth | mewyn: how so? |
| 04:25.38 | mewyn | well, it's thinking a variable i have created outside a function is local |
| 04:25.49 | kergoth | mewyn: use the 'global' command |
| 04:25.52 | kergoth | global var1 var2 |
| 04:26.07 | mewyn | can i do global var1 = value? |
| 04:26.14 | kergoth | dunno |
| 04:26.27 | kergoth | global var1 makes any reference to var1 in this scope reference the global var1 |
| 04:26.30 | kergoth | so global var1 |
| 04:26.31 | kergoth | var1=this |
| 04:26.33 | kergoth | would work |
| 04:27.05 | mewyn | i need to put global in the function, or at the definition of the var? |
| 04:27.18 | kergoth | in the function |
| 04:27.31 | kergoth | put global space varnames within the scope that you will be accessing them from |
| 04:27.54 | mewyn | foo |
| 04:27.56 | mewyn | pita |
| 04:28.19 | kergoth | mewyn: it just assumes that its dealing with local scope unless informed otherwise, from what i've seen |
| 04:28.27 | kergoth | mewyn: i havent read any books on this, just going from experience |
| 04:28.29 | mewyn | can i put as many as i want on one line? |
| 04:28.30 | treke|home | wonder if I can plug my wcf12 into a cf->pcmcia adapter and use that tnoight |
| 04:28.58 | kergoth | mewyn: yeah, comma seperated |
| 04:30.33 | beattie | kergoth: that is what I tried, guess what seems to have been it :) |
| 04:30.48 | beattie | make oldconfig |
| 04:30.58 | kergoth | heheh |
| 04:34.55 | mewyn | kergoth: i may just as well switch to C for this |
| 04:34.58 | chouimat|Zzzz | night |
| 04:35.19 | beattie | still no serial console though, guess I'll try all possible strings next |
| 04:37.17 | mewyn | i'll also need to get a serial cable for my Z. |
| 04:37.22 | mewyn | do they still sell those? |
| 04:37.38 | kergoth | afaik myzaurus.com still links to that z thin cable |
| 04:37.51 | beattie | the Sharp one sucks |
| 04:37.58 | kergoth | yup, that it does |
| 04:38.32 | mewyn | well, i'm gonna go to bed. i'll figure more of this suff out tomorrow |
| 04:38.51 | beattie | mine seems to have stopped feeding power |
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| 04:47.26 | beattie | kergoth: do you have any plans to do anything with the 2.4.18 or 2.4.19 kernels any time soon? |
| 04:47.47 | kergoth | I expect we'll toss the stock sharp 2.4.18 into the 3.2.5 release along with opie 1.0, just as a holdover |
| 04:48.10 | kergoth | then use the superior 2.4.19 w/ better drivers in the 3.3.x series and 3.4 |
| 04:48.38 | beattie | ok, cause I can't get anything out of the serial ports |
| 04:48.59 | beattie | works find in oz3.2 and sharp 3.1 |
| 04:49.12 | beattie | s/find/fine/ |
| 04:49.25 | kergoth | odd |
| 04:49.32 | beattie | very |
| 04:49.55 | beattie | could well be something stupid I'm doing but... |
| 04:50.51 | beattie | I got the kernel sources straight from Sharp, I'm gonna see if I can compile and boot that |
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| 05:07.25 | SoopaTRON | hi, do you guys remember the page for prepping a compact flash disk to reflash an ipaq to opie |
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| 05:21.43 | TCMAN | hi |
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| 07:11.41 | Speedy2 | Yo |
| 07:12.26 | Twiun | hey |
| 07:12.32 | Speedy2 | Hey |
| 07:12.35 | Speedy2 | How's it going? |
| 07:22.43 | Speedy2 | Great, glad to hear it |
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| 08:31.32 | Thelonius | is open embedded XIP capable? |
| 08:56.59 | Twiun | I don't think that's dependent on the build system - more on the individual software |
| 08:57.23 | Twiun | hey mithro |
| 08:57.49 | Thelonius | i thought XIP was the system itself |
| 08:58.16 | Thelonius | or should I ask opie/gpe devs? |
| 08:58.40 | Twiun | afaik, XIP is a compilation time option of the kernel - but I don't know if a software has to be specifically changed to support it |
| 08:59.15 | Thelonius | k |
| 08:59.33 | Twiun | there are also times when XIP makes little sense |
| 08:59.38 | TCMAN | good night |
| 08:59.40 | Thelonius | like when |
| 08:59.41 | *** part/#openembedded TCMAN (~dominik@adsl-68-120-131-199.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 09:00.05 | Twiun | like when you have enough ram and the ram is faster than the flash |
| 09:00.10 | Thelonius | like when would the traditional, uncompress to ram, then execute be better than the typical XIP? |
| 09:00.20 | Thelonius | ahh |
| 09:00.26 | Twiun | XIP is a compromise :) |
| 09:00.30 | Twiun | speed/space |
| 09:00.31 | Thelonius | i see your perspective |
| 09:00.33 | mithro | heyy Twiun |
| 09:00.45 | Thelonius | don't the newer machines have faster flash |
| 09:00.54 | Twiun | Still slower than ram ;) |
| 09:00.59 | Thelonius | touche |
| 09:01.08 | Thelonius | but what about the process of uncompressing? |
| 09:01.11 | Twiun | but granted, sometimes XIP is justified |
| 09:01.44 | Twiun | unless you don't compress your XIP filesystem, you still have the same issue |
| 09:01.50 | Twiun | and then you need more flash |
| 09:03.53 | mithro | whats XIP? |
| 09:05.12 | Twiun | eXecute In Place |
| 09:05.26 | Twiun | runs the proggy without loading it into ram |
| 09:07.13 | mithro | ahh |
| 09:10.08 | Thelonius | Twiun, is there a way we can test application and r/w timings between XIP and tradition methods? |
| 09:11.03 | Twiun | I'm sure there is but I personally wouldn't know how to do that |
| 09:15.21 | Thelonius | neither.. |
| 09:15.48 | Twiun | you'd also lose jffs2 if you used XIP apparently |
| 09:15.48 | Thelonius | the only thing i don't like about linux, is the stigma it gets in most corporate settings |
| 09:16.22 | Twiun | some corporate settings - I haven't had that much problem |
| 09:16.34 | Twiun | granted, some places are windows only shops |
| 09:17.09 | Twiun | but most of my work is on the backend, and windows just isn't suitable |
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| 10:11.46 | cmartin | hi mickeyl |
| 10:12.52 | mickeyl | servus cmartin |
| 10:15.45 | cmartin | mickeyl: noticed simpad.sourceforge.net says "The new homepage is now located under www.opensimpad.org!" ;-) |
| 10:16.00 | mickeyl|lunch | cmartin: that's good news :) |
| 10:16.01 | mickeyl|lunch | bbl |
| 10:16.13 | cmartin | mickeyl|lunch: lunch sounds good - bbl too |
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| 11:25.09 | mickeyl | cmartin|lunch: ein automatischer redirect wäre auch schön |
| 11:25.22 | mickeyl | cmartin|lunch: support hardware forums ist sehr gut! |
| 11:26.12 | cmartin | mickeyl: yes, a redirect would be nice |
| 11:26.43 | cmartin | mickeyl: i set the hardware forum up this morning |
| 11:27.27 | mickeyl | cmartin: good idea |
| 11:27.28 | cmartin | i get all kinds of mails asking if wlan card xy works |
| 11:27.47 | mickeyl | yeah |
| 11:27.57 | Twiun | hey mickeyl, cmartin |
| 11:28.02 | mickeyl | another FAQ is the "how can i connect via usb" |
| 11:28.04 | cmartin | hi Twiun |
| 11:28.13 | mickeyl | hi Twiun |
| 11:29.04 | cmartin | mickeyl: do you want to write it or should i? |
| 11:30.29 | mickeyl | cmartin: please do |
| 11:30.42 | mickeyl | cmartin: btw - i reverted to the ucb1x00 in buildroot |
| 11:30.56 | mickeyl | cmartin: works now as it should. will deal with tslib handling later |
| 11:32.17 | mickeyl | cmartin: btw., I must help with the forthcoming OZ 3.2.5 release, so I won't be able to do something SIMpad specific in the next one or two weeks |
| 11:32.48 | cmartin | mickeyl: ok |
| 11:33.14 | mickeyl | if OZ 3.2.5 is out we should do a Open SIMpad 0.9 based on OZ 3.2.5 (stable) because that will have Opie 1.0 |
| 11:33.29 | cmartin | mickeyl: so when ein build again i should not activate tslib->qte support? |
| 11:33.46 | cmartin | s/ i |
| 11:33.51 | mickeyl | cmartin: yes. deactivate it. don't know offhand if i already deactivated it in the defconfig |
| 11:34.57 | cmartin | mickeyl: BTW if you google for "simpad linux" you get opensimpad.org on top!! |
| 11:37.18 | cmartin | mickeyl: another thing - i hope i don't get into trouble with my friend that hosts opensimpad.org - hits have gone up to ~ 200-300 a day and 1,2 GB tranfer this month so far. |
| 11:37.21 | *** join/#openembedded ljp_laptop (~ljp@tq0100.peakpeak.com) |
| 11:37.56 | cmartin | s / transfer |
| 11:48.38 | ljp_laptop | http://handhelds.org/scap/port.24111.png |
| 11:49.11 | Twiun | purdy |
| 11:49.20 | Twiun | does it scale to fullscreen too? |
| 11:50.49 | ljp_laptop | fullscreen? |
| 11:51.33 | Twiun | as opposed to maximised window |
| 11:52.39 | ljp_laptop | I dont think the audiowidget does fullscreen |
| 11:53.23 | Twiun | ah, non-issue in that case ;) |
| 11:54.23 | ljp_laptop | I need a movie to work on the video skin |
| 11:57.42 | Twiun | nothing suitable on that pocketpc moview site? |
| 11:57.49 | Twiun | s/moview/movie/ |
| 11:59.10 | ljp_laptop | ya, finding something now |
| 12:12.59 | Twiun | hmmm, looks like bdf spaces, char 0x20 isn't being given a proper width |
| 12:19.00 | zecke_ | cmartin: you can always ask HP ( handelds.org ) if they can host the site |
| 12:21.41 | cmartin | zecke_: thanx if that becomes necessary i will do that (hopefully HH.ORG lets me set up typo3 there). |
| 12:22.22 | zecke_ | cmartin: I think they will |
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| 12:47.33 | cmartin | can anybody tell me why buildroot refuses to use the libjpeg.so under staging (it's always trying to use my /usr/lib/libjpeg.so) when i try to compile konqe? |
| 12:50.16 | schurig | cmartin: so, you still have this problem? I don't |
| 12:53.34 | cmartin | schurig: yes - i even bk pulled an hour ago - so it seems to be a host problem, but i can't get behind the problem |
| 12:54.39 | cmartin | schurig: which konqe snapshot are you using? |
| 12:56.49 | chouimat | morning |
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| 13:04.55 | effy-kun | sup choui |
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| 13:27.06 | chouimat | effy-kun: nothing beside saw a very good show last night |
| 13:34.54 | effy-kun | oh? what show? |
| 13:35.29 | chouimat | effy-kun: Ozzy |
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| 13:49.29 | masticator_ | http://www.internalmemos.com/memos/memodetails.php?memo_id=1632 |
| 13:49.31 | masticator_ | hahahahahaha |
| 13:50.09 | chouimat | hii masticator_ |
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| 13:51.27 | chouimat | masticator_: ouch |
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| 14:07.46 | cmartin | mickeyl: hi again |
| 14:07.50 | mickeyl | hi |
| 14:08.15 | cmartin | mickeyl: i put a USB-NET mini HOWTO in the FAQs - see if I missed something |
| 14:10.10 | mickeyl | cmartin: that looks good |
| 14:10.15 | cmartin | k |
| 14:10.41 | cmartin | mickeyl: BTW usb-net works now on my mdk9.1 also |
| 14:11.01 | mickeyl | aah good to hear |
| 14:11.11 | Thelonius | i think i have just made myself a pocket paper weight, due to something screwing up during the installation of the bootloader |
| 14:11.27 | cmartin | mickeyl: i had to downgrade the original kernel and now i have the 2.4.21 from kernel.org install and it works again |
| 14:12.31 | Twiun | Thelonius: what were you flashing? |
| 14:12.54 | cmartin | mickeyl: the original mdk 2.4.21 kernel was not a stable release and had an ide bug that showed up on some systems (including mine) so i downgraded to 2.4.19 and usb-net didn't work anymore |
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| 14:13.57 | Thelonius | Twiun, bootloader |
| 14:14.57 | Twiun | Thelonius: what device - and which bootloader? |
| 14:15.12 | Thelonius | my URThere amigo |
| 14:15.34 | Twiun | ? |
| 14:15.44 | Twiun | never heard of that |
| 14:15.52 | Thelonius | it is the equivalent of an ipaq h3600 |
| 14:15.57 | Thelonius | with bootstrap-v0.7-rc3-h3600 |
| 14:16.26 | Twiun | ahhh |
| 14:16.41 | kergoth | mornin |
| 14:16.53 | Thelonius | morn kkergoth |
| 14:16.59 | cmartin | Thelonius: why are you using bootstrap-v0.7-rc3-h3600? why not an image from OE buildroot? |
| 14:17.20 | cmartin | works great on my h3660 |
| 14:17.38 | Thelonius | because i don't know what i am doing, so i followed the faq on the site |
| 14:17.45 | mickeyl | lol |
| 14:17.47 | cmartin | k |
| 14:17.49 | Thelonius | cmartin, what image did you use? |
| 14:17.55 | cmartin | my own |
| 14:18.11 | Thelonius | wanna gimme it to try to resurrect my pda |
| 14:18.24 | Twiun | hey kergoth |
| 14:18.44 | cmartin | Thelonius: well, if your problem is the bootloader then my OE image won't help you much |
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| 14:20.03 | cmartin | Thelonius: bootstrap and bootloader are two different thing |
| 14:20.10 | cmartin | s/things |
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| 14:25.54 | cmartin | mickeyl: can you give me a hint to which packages you would expect on the different feed (base, x, opie)? |
| 14:26.51 | mickeyl | cmartin: base rule: base is everything minus the X, evas, picogui, libqte, libqpe, libopie and opie-* packages |
| 14:27.02 | mickeyl | X is everything X, e.g. tinyx |
| 14:27.09 | mickeyl | and opie is qte and opie* |
| 14:27.18 | cmartin | k |
| 14:28.42 | cmartin | mickeyl: when would you move a package from experimental to stable? do you have rule of thumb for that also? |
| 14:29.26 | kergoth | are you referring to branches? going forward the distribution maintainers will make policy decisions on what versions of what packages go into what branches of release |
| 14:29.36 | kergoth | but currently.. theres no central place to manage that informationm |
| 14:29.50 | mickeyl | cmarcmartin: my personal policy has been to move that after 2 weeks |
| 14:29.58 | mickeyl | if no horror stories appear :) |
| 14:30.07 | cmartin | kergoth: i'm talking about our simpad feeds we're setting up at the time |
| 14:30.38 | kergoth | cmartin: so you're referring to unofficial builds |
| 14:30.43 | mickeyl | yes. |
| 14:30.46 | cmartin | yes |
| 14:30.58 | mickeyl | the big picture is as soon as we can merge all non-architecture speficic builds @ openembedded.org |
| 14:31.00 | kergoth | k, just checking |
| 14:31.10 | kergoth | right, in other words, when we get the new buildsystem |
| 14:31.27 | mickeyl | until then, we are using opensimpad.org as the unofficial feed repository. |
| 14:31.48 | kergoth | cool |
| 14:32.33 | zecke_ | mickeyl: why not hh.org? feeds can consume a lot of bandwidth |
| 14:32.45 | mickeyl | zecke_: actually no idea. cmartin ? |
| 14:32.55 | mickeyl | who pays for opensimpad.org ? |
| 14:33.01 | cmartin | me |
| 14:33.06 | zecke_ | ;) |
| 14:33.27 | zecke_ | kergoth: can you setup an account for cmartin at hh.org? |
| 14:35.46 | cmartin | mickeyl: at the time it's not a problem, but if feeds are really very bandwidth consumtious then it may become one |
| 14:36.00 | mickeyl | cmartin: we have two options. hh.org and sf.net |
| 14:36.07 | zecke_ | cmartin: they are even with few people |
| 14:37.16 | cmartin | mickeyl: as i mentioned earlier my transfer volume went up drastically after anouncing the first opensimpad image - this month up till today already 1.1 GB! |
| 14:37.47 | mickeyl | wow... well it would be possible to use hh.org just as the feed repository but letting the rest of your page staying as it is |
| 14:38.10 | cmartin | yes, that's what I was thinking also |
| 14:39.04 | cmartin | i already do that with the images - sf.net - using their mirror possibility ;) |
| 14:39.49 | kergoth | sf's files management for their projects blows |
| 14:39.58 | kergoth | i used to use it for oz, but doing releases became a nightmare |
| 14:40.32 | cmartin | kergoth: do you do all file download stuff at HH? |
| 14:40.54 | kergoth | hehe |
| 14:40.58 | kergoth | our base is still on sf |
| 14:41.05 | kergoth | on their web hosting, not through th efiles interface |
| 14:41.14 | kergoth | then we have mirrors, which are simply volunteers |
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| 14:43.49 | Thelonius | kergoth, is there any way to resurrect a pda that crapped out? |
| 14:44.16 | kergoth | depends on just how crapped it is |
| 14:44.24 | Thelonius | bootldr fsscked up |
| 14:44.34 | Thelonius | when i tried to install it |
| 14:44.37 | kergoth | how fsscked up? you cant get into it at all? |
| 14:44.40 | kergoth | we call that a 'brick' |
| 14:44.47 | kergoth | heh |
| 14:44.51 | kergoth | ibot: brick Thelonius |
| 14:44.52 | | ACTION installs a bad bootloader on Thelonius and turns Thelonius into a brick |
| 14:44.56 | Thelonius | NOOOOOO!!!!!! |
| 14:45.06 | kergoth | note ibot's wording there. bad bootloader. |
| 14:45.07 | kergoth | heheh |
| 14:45.13 | Thelonius | isn't there something that would allow me to flash it or something |
| 14:45.20 | cmartin | kergoth: since i've got you here now - do have any idea why my buildroot still tries /usr/lib/libjpeg.so instead of staging when i build konqe? |
| 14:45.43 | kergoth | cmartin: i'd say its probably still libtool being evil, but how or why i couldnt say. i need to clone a buildroot |
| 14:46.33 | cmartin | Thelonius: JTAG? |
| 14:47.03 | Thelonius | ? |
| 14:47.08 | kergoth | ibot: jtag Thelonius |
| 14:47.09 | | ACTION pries Thelonius 's back open with a screwdriver and flashes a new bootldr to Thelonius . |
| 14:47.12 | kergoth | heh |
| 14:47.31 | Thelonius | how is that funny :( |
| 14:48.21 | kergoth | Thelonius: the folks at CRL unbrick ipaqs for free afaik. ask in #handhelds.org |
| 14:50.21 | mickeyl | :))) |
| 14:50.35 | cyn | hahaha |
| 14:50.54 | cmartin | mickeyl: great tell me how far you get |
| 14:51.21 | Thelonius | kergoth, crl? |
| 14:51.27 | Thelonius | ibot: crl thelonius |
| 14:51.28 | | Thelonius: no idea |
| 14:51.32 | kergoth | ibot: crl |
| 14:51.32 | | [crl] home of handhelds.org or HP Labs, Cambridge Research Lab, One Cambridge Center, Cambridge MA 02142 |
| 14:51.40 | Thelonius | ok |
| 14:51.59 | kergoth | shit |
| 14:52.07 | kergoth | i opened a browser to go somewhere |
| 14:52.12 | kergoth | and promptly forgot where i was going |
| 14:52.14 | kergoth | i hate that. |
| 14:52.21 | mickeyl | how old are you again ? |
| 14:52.51 | cyn | too old to answer that and too young to care |
| 14:53.00 | kergoth | mickeyl: 23, i must be getting old before my time |
| 14:53.11 | mickeyl | :)) |
| 14:53.20 | mickeyl | so young and so skilled... *sigh* |
| 14:53.36 | mickeyl | let's change topics... |
| 14:53.41 | cmartin | cmartin: feeling really old - 33 |
| 14:53.43 | chouimat | mickeyl: bah! |
| 14:54.49 | cmartin | cmartin: never been divorced - but married for almost 13 years!! |
| 14:55.15 | mickeyl | wow... started early, heh? |
| 14:55.28 | cmartin | yep -i was 20 and my wife 18 |
| 14:55.38 | kergoth | woo, i remembered where i was going |
| 14:56.59 | kergoth | roman uploaded v1.4 of linuxkernelconf |
| 14:57.09 | kergoth | need to update both opie and oz's kconfig |
| 14:57.47 | mickeyl | ah nice. anything special new? |
| 14:58.02 | kergoth | yeah, a really cool new function called 'enable' |
| 14:58.09 | kergoth | it lets you enable one config item from another |
| 14:58.12 | kergoth | in other words.. |
| 14:58.22 | kergoth | create a toolchain item that when you check it, enables gcc, binutils, and glibc |
| 14:58.26 | kergoth | :D |
| 14:58.27 | kergoth | very cool stuff |
| 14:58.28 | mickeyl | nice |
| 14:58.37 | Twiun | can you also disable stuff the same way? |
| 14:58.49 | kergoth | not sure |
| 14:58.51 | cmartin | mickeyl: something terribly OT - on my laptop when i halt it , it shuts down and stays at the "Power down" message and never turns off - any ideas? - oh yeah i use ACPI |
| 14:59.00 | mickeyl | Linux? |
| 14:59.07 | kergoth | i have the same behavior. acpi doesnt like me |
| 14:59.17 | kergoth | i should go back to apm |
| 14:59.36 | mickeyl | apm is a sane fallback. most acpi biosses are uncomplete and buggy |
| 14:59.53 | chouimat | wow! Plan9 is now open source |
| 14:59.54 | mickeyl | or even worse... contain windows specific hacks *eek* |
| 14:59.55 | kergoth | does acpi have an interface for battery %? |
| 15:00.05 | cmartin | it's not the bios - with the standard MDK 9.1 kernel it worked |
| 15:00.20 | kergoth | i was wondering that the other day, since my battery applet doesnt warn me on failure anymore :) |
| 15:00.20 | mickeyl | cmartin: then you should compare .configs |
| 15:00.31 | mickeyl | kergoth: hmm... iirc it should |
| 15:00.38 | kergoth | hm, techno version of a girl from ipanima |
| 15:00.40 | kergoth | odd |
| 15:00.47 | kergoth | mickeyl: hmm k |
| 15:00.51 | cyn | acpi is a pain in the ass |
| 15:01.01 | cyn | i have to enable it for the irqs on this laptop to look sane |
| 15:01.08 | cmartin | kergoth: do you use klaptop? |
| 15:01.16 | cyn | but I didn't know that the patch @ sourceforge was much newer than the stuff in the kernel |
| 15:01.20 | cyn | I should make a new kernel with that patch |
| 15:01.25 | kergoth | yeah acpi seems to handle irq routing better |
| 15:01.33 | cyn | coz the 'enabling' I did, didn't work .... entirely... right |
| 15:01.36 | cmartin | kergoth: if so klaptop only allows you to set the warnings in minutes and not % |
| 15:01.46 | kergoth | cmartin: my point is, it worked when i was using apm :) |
| 15:01.50 | cyn | prolly gkrellm |
| 15:02.12 | cyn | hey question for the masses |
| 15:02.21 | cyn | if you had a 1024x480 display sitting next to your main desktop display |
| 15:02.24 | cmartin | kergoth: yes i think apm reports the time left in minutes |
| 15:02.31 | cmartin | also |
| 15:02.31 | cyn | and it was on a relatively slow computer hard-wired to your local lan |
| 15:02.32 | kergoth | brb, late for my meeting |
| 15:02.35 | cyn | what might you use it for? |
| 15:03.39 | kergoth | bah, /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/state doesnt show any useful info anyway |
| 15:03.47 | Twiun | cyn: browsing? |
| 15:03.59 | cyn | keyboard on it is total shit |
| 15:04.05 | cyn | it's a small display too |
| 15:04.23 | cyn | kergoth: really? i have /proc/acpi/battery/0/status and info |
| 15:04.32 | cyn | all kinds of neat info |
| 15:04.44 | cyn | info tells me that my last full capacity EXCEEDED the design capacity, woo |
| 15:05.07 | cyn | uh |
| 15:05.20 | cyn | and status tells me it's discharging hahaha |
| 15:05.29 | cmartin | my info alway says 102% when AC connected |
| 15:05.49 | cyn | Error reading battery status (_BST) |
| 15:05.57 | cyn | guess I shouldn't try to read that but once per boot |
| 15:06.23 | cyn | ya i should redo my kernel on this box |
| 15:06.32 | cyn | it needs that sourceforge version of acpi |
| 15:06.36 | cmartin | i think i'll revert back to apm :( |
| 15:06.48 | cyn | wish I could |
| 15:06.57 | cmartin | cyn: watch out |
| 15:07.05 | cyn | hmm |
| 15:07.23 | cmartin | cyn: i downloaded 2.4.21 from kernel.org yesterday and the patch at sf screwed acpi |
| 15:07.39 | cyn | 2.4.21's only been out like less than 1week right |
| 15:07.43 | cmartin | when acpi was activated it didn't boot |
| 15:07.54 | cyn | or has it been a couple weeks |
| 15:08.06 | cmartin | no, i think less than a weak |
| 15:08.15 | cmartin | s/week |
| 15:08.56 | cyn | yeah 4 days ago |
| 15:08.58 | cmartin | but it works better than the 2.4.19 kernel that shipped with my MDK9.1 - it wasn't stable then |
| 15:09.19 | cmartin | s/2.4.21 |
| 15:11.14 | cmartin | mickeyl: how's your build of konqe doing? |
| 15:11.45 | treke | its been out for a couple weeks |
| 15:12.00 | treke | 2.4.21-pre8 came out two-three weeks ago |
| 15:12.16 | treke | and is identical to .21 |
| 15:12.17 | cmartin | treke: yes but it has only been given stable status for four days now |
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| 15:17.16 | mickeyl | cmartin: just finished. no problems. |
| 15:19.36 | mickeyl | bbl -> going home |
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| 15:37.20 | hardwire | hi |
| 15:37.23 | hardwire | treke told me to get mydamn ass in here |
| 15:37.41 | treke | he follows instructions well |
| 15:37.51 | hardwire | but most ofyou on #openzaurus already know this.. so within parameters of thischannel.. raise your hand if you own a simpad.. |
| 15:38.13 | hardwire | good.. ok.. you there.. whats your name? |
| 15:38.40 | hardwire | hey..*psst*.. is that guy deaf? |
| 15:39.40 | cmartin | hardwire: i own one |
| 15:39.49 | hardwire | yay ;) |
| 15:39.58 | hardwire | first off.. is it easy to cuddle? |
| 15:40.16 | hardwire | say.. if you accedently mistook it for a girlfriend after reading off of it in bed. |
| 15:40.18 | cmartin | what do you mean by "cuddle"? |
| 15:41.13 | hardwire | well.. here's another one.. where can you actually price one out? |
| 15:42.00 | cmartin | somebody on the # mentioned them going for 249 EUR at some outlet store in germany |
| 15:42.13 | Thelonius | damn this simpad page is badass |
| 15:42.17 | cmartin | i paid 400 EUR about 6 months ago |
| 15:42.29 | Thelonius | i am gonna do this to my Gateway Connected Touchpads |
| 15:42.32 | hardwire | and you have the SL4 |
| 15:42.42 | cmartin | Thelonius: which on do you mean? my opensimpad.org? |
| 15:42.57 | cmartin | yes, SL4 |
| 15:43.01 | hardwire | hmm |
| 15:43.13 | hardwire | most places want $600-1000 US for them |
| 15:43.14 | hardwire | heh |
| 15:43.17 | Thelonius | cmartin, yeah |
| 15:43.44 | cmartin | Thelonius: that's my work |
| 15:44.00 | cmartin | hardwire: where do you live? |
| 15:44.05 | hardwire | Colorado |
| 15:44.14 | cmartin | ok, USA |
| 15:44.25 | cmartin | it's gonna be hard to find that there |
| 15:44.44 | hardwire | maybe if its around him I can have him peek in on that store |
| 15:44.53 | cmartin | in germany there goin for about 300-350 EUR at ebay |
| 15:44.55 | hardwire | just need to know the store name and so on |
| 15:45.55 | hardwire | the SLC will work fine with reflashing right? |
| 15:46.41 | cmartin | SL4 and SLC are identical with one exception - SLC has a built DECT module (which will do nothing for you in the USA) |
| 15:46.53 | hardwire | figures |
| 15:46.54 | hardwire | ;) |
| 15:46.59 | hardwire | damn you DECT'ers |
| 15:48.01 | hardwire | http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2736485516&category=42551 |
| 15:48.02 | hardwire | hmm |
| 15:48.23 | cmartin | hardwire: but that's no problem - it's just a function you can't use - BTW it's not supported under linux anyways ;) |
| 15:48.35 | hardwire | didn't think so |
| 15:48.44 | hardwire | no telephony support for DETC in the kernels |
| 15:49.37 | cmartin | hardwire: yes that SL4 would do - the seller says he only ships within Germany though |
| 15:49.37 | hardwire | doews the framebuffer have a reasonable refresh rate? |
| 15:49.50 | hardwire | cmartin: thats not really a problem |
| 15:49.56 | hardwire | the problem is I have nomoney. |
| 15:50.01 | cmartin | oh |
| 15:50.05 | hardwire | hehe |
| 15:51.14 | cmartin | hardwire: i'm not sure about the refresh rate, but some guys on the ML have mentioned using it for streaming video |
| 15:52.08 | hardwire | which could be anywhere from 1fps and up ;) |
| 15:52.13 | cmartin | at the time the x port for the simpad is not very mature - but you could also use our Opie port and use VNC |
| 15:52.16 | hardwire | hmm |
| 15:52.35 | hardwire | I just need Xfbdev to work |
| 15:52.51 | cmartin | hardwire: haven't tested that |
| 15:52.57 | hardwire | I would think it would work |
| 15:53.05 | cmartin | think so too |
| 15:54.01 | hardwire | special risc chip thatcan use the gforce as an fpu ;) shit like that |
| 15:54.14 | hardwire | a battery that weighs a few pounds |
| 15:55.18 | Thelonius | hardwire, there are a bunch of pda's that have that ati chip in it now |
| 15:55.29 | hardwire | yeah.. I noticed that |
| 15:55.53 | hardwire | didn't know if it were usable under linux yet. |
| 15:56.12 | treke | the c700 has one |
| 15:56.19 | treke | dont know if it makes much use of it |
| 15:56.21 | Thelonius | cmartin, if i have a full linux dist. environment running in about 32mbs, what benefits would there be to move to openembedded? |
| 15:56.41 | Thelonius | treke, is the c700 as buggy/slow as everyone claims it is? |
| 15:56.53 | treke | hardwire: keithp was going to write an X driver for it iirc |
| 15:57.00 | treke | Thelonius: beats me |
| 15:57.09 | treke | Thelonius: most people seem to think it is |
| 15:57.36 | cyn | the ram is limiting |
| 15:57.40 | cyn | get the 750 or 760 |
| 15:57.48 | cyn | if yer gunna do much simult. with it |
| 15:58.09 | mithro | get the 760 :) |
| 15:58.26 | cyn | 760 is just more flash and a bigger battery |
| 15:58.32 | cyn | the bigger battery is available seperately |
| 15:58.34 | treke | and a better cpu |
| 15:58.36 | cyn | I'd get a 750 and the battery |
| 15:58.42 | cyn | no, same cpu 750 and 760 |
| 15:58.46 | mithro | the bigger battery is better :) |
| 15:58.51 | cyn | mithro: is available seperately |
| 15:58.52 | treke | better than the 700 though |
| 15:58.56 | cyn | treke: yes |
| 15:59.02 | cyn | bugfix'd |
| 15:59.05 | cyn | same processor minus bugs |
| 15:59.33 | cyn | I'd get the 750 and the battery seperately, and then if i wanted to tote slim i could use the normal battery |
| 16:00.01 | cyn | or I'd have a spare little battery as 'backup' that i could tote with me, for less than the price of the 760 with just the main :) |
| 16:00.06 | cmartin | Thelonius: i didn't get your question - openembedded is linux |
| 16:00.33 | kergoth | openembedded is technically os agnostic |
| 16:00.37 | Thelonius | cmartin, i meant i have full fledge x/gtk etc going |
| 16:00.41 | kergoth | just to nitpick :) |
| 16:00.57 | Thelonius | openembedded is tinyX/qt or gtk2? |
| 16:00.59 | kergoth | i believe chouimat way want bsd kernel builds in the infrastructure |
| 16:01.09 | kergoth | Thelonius: it is a distribution. you can use whatever you like. |
| 16:01.17 | mithro | hey kergoth |
| 16:01.33 | treke | tinyx is significantly smaller than most other X distributions |
| 16:01.37 | cmartin | Thelonius: openembedded has both - you choose - but the TinyX in openembedded doesn't seem to be maintained |
| 16:01.52 | treke | and ususally has newer features than the releases of xfree86 proper |
| 16:02.00 | mithro | we shoulld design a wonder PDA which kicks the Zaurus :) |
| 16:02.06 | Thelonius | heheh |
| 16:02.37 | Thelonius | mithro, i am trying to.... but i can't even get anything but ppc2k2 running on it |
| 16:03.00 | mithro | Thelonius: why would you be able to get ppc2k2 running on it instead of Linux? |
| 16:03.20 | *** join/#openembedded carsten (niehaus@131.173.24.38) |
| 16:03.56 | cyn | hes got some ipaq 3360 equivalent or something |
| 16:04.03 | Thelonius | yeah |
| 16:04.14 | Thelonius | a non-ipaq/hp device |
| 16:04.25 | Thelonius | (a URThere @migo |
| 16:04.52 | cmartin | here's the one Thelonius has http://www.urthere.com/ |
| 16:05.06 | mithro | does it have dual CF slots? |
| 16:06.01 | mithro | the problem with if i design a PDA nobody is going to be able to afford it :( |
| 16:06.18 | Thelonius | mithro, it has a pcmcia slot |
| 16:06.37 | mithro | and it would require technology not developed yet :( |
| 16:06.38 | cmartin | the web site of Thelonius device is not very informative |
| 16:06.46 | beattie | there was the Mylinux thing last year |
| 16:06.48 | Thelonius | my wonder pda, is the pda i have, except the screen has a higher resolution, and have a built in keyboard |
| 16:07.10 | cyn | right, a c750 or c760 |
| 16:07.24 | treke | my wonder pda is a c760 for about 400 bucks cheaper with a second cf slot |
| 16:07.29 | kergoth | the c750/760 is the slickest pda on the market atm imho |
| 16:07.35 | treke | needs mor cf |
| 16:07.52 | beattie | needs a full pcmcia |
| 16:07.55 | mithro | treke: yeah i would love a second CF slot c750/760 with customizeable skins |
| 16:07.56 | kergoth | treke: i'd like to see it w/ a developer sled ala the ibm reference design |
| 16:07.59 | kergoth | treke: :) |
| 16:08.03 | treke | kergoth: I could dig that |
| 16:08.15 | mithro | beattie: you can get a cf -> pcmica convertor |
| 16:08.17 | Thelonius | http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/Palmax/PD-600C_1/@migo_PD600C.htm |
| 16:08.23 | treke | er likes |
| 16:08.25 | cyn | yeah i have one, works fine |
| 16:08.31 | cyn | but pcmcia is too bulky for a pda |
| 16:08.32 | mithro | ie plug in a pcmica card into a cf slot |
| 16:08.39 | Thelonius | cyn, not at all |
| 16:08.45 | cyn | yes, it is |
| 16:08.52 | kergoth | its bulky, but i like the flexibility |
| 16:08.54 | cyn | I have pcmcia cards, I have pdas |
| 16:08.55 | kergoth | so i want both damnit! |
| 16:08.58 | cyn | heh |
| 16:09.01 | beattie | yeah but a cf -> pcmcia is goin to be bulkier than just a pcmcia |
| 16:09.05 | Thelonius | my pcmcia melds perfectly |
| 16:09.07 | kergoth | i really like the formfactor of the c7x0 |
| 16:09.08 | cyn | that's true |
| 16:09.20 | cyn | Thelonius: yeah but that's because your pda is using old tech :P |
| 16:09.24 | Thelonius | yeah, if it has a keyboard and a flip screen, it is money |
| 16:09.26 | Thelonius | hahahah |
| 16:09.27 | treke | kergoth: dynamism made any hints about wanting it back? |
| 16:09.29 | cyn | and it's prolly bricky to boot |
| 16:09.33 | kergoth | treke: not a word |
| 16:09.37 | mithro | i have a friend with a pcmcia card which is also a credit card PDA |
| 16:09.47 | cyn | i've seen that thing |
| 16:09.51 | treke | kergoth: then I think its safe to say you'll be keeping it :p |
| 16:09.57 | Thelonius | is that the rex thing/ |
| 16:10.07 | kergoth | treke: yeah, most liekly. shit man, regardless it'll be obselete by the time they want it, if they do, anyway |
| 16:10.29 | treke | kergoth: Now that the c7x0 is out there, I doubt there is much demand for the c700 with its flaws |
| 16:10.44 | cyn | yea |
| 16:10.56 | kergoth | yeah |
| 16:10.59 | cyn | unless they sell it at a low price point there won't be much demand at all |
| 16:11.17 | cyn | and it'd have to be like 200 lower than the 750 heh |
| 16:11.20 | kergoth | i hope they cut the cost to clear out the stock |
| 16:11.20 | kergoth | yeah |
| 16:11.23 | kergoth | thatd be smooth |
| 16:11.30 | mithro | why would anyone get the c700 over a c750/c760 ? |
| 16:11.35 | cmartin | gotta go, see you all later |
| 16:11.39 | Thelonius | my dream pda would be the c7x0 with bluetooth/a phone/wifi and a pcmcia slot |
| 16:11.47 | mithro | except if they drop the price |
| 16:11.52 | treke | mithro: price is bout the only reason |
| 16:11.52 | mithro | bluetooth is overrated |
| 16:12.02 | *** part/#openembedded cmartin (~cmartin@145.253.165.2) |
| 16:12.07 | Thelonius | oh yeah, and a built in /redesigned keyboard, that creates a joystick |
| 16:12.10 | mithro | but i'm happy with my C700 |
| 16:12.34 | mithro | kergoth: what revision Xscale do you have in your C700? |
| 16:13.19 | cyn | including bluetooth and phone and wifi is silly |
| 16:13.50 | cyn | unless the wifi chip is a combo bt/wifi |
| 16:13.50 | Thelonius | hey, this is my dream |
| 16:13.51 | mithro | wifi could be useful, but a second CF slot would be better |
| 16:13.53 | Thelonius | not yours :P |
| 16:13.59 | Thelonius | cyn, ofcourse |
| 16:14.08 | kergoth | you see that article on the ti chip w/ bt & 802.11 that reduces the interference between the technologies? |
| 16:14.13 | kergoth | pretty spiffy |
| 16:14.18 | Thelonius | it would be that 3mode single chip thing |
| 16:14.38 | Thelonius | kergoth, didn't they make a single chip that did modem/bt/wi-fi all on one chip |
| 16:14.44 | kergoth | dont recall |
| 16:15.07 | beattie | be nice if TI released enough stuff to build a Linux AP, right now Prism 2 is the only solution |
| 16:15.07 | cyn | doubt it |
| 16:15.11 | cyn | they're not related |
| 16:15.24 | cyn | it'd be as big as two chips and you'd have trouble using modem + other two simult |
| 16:15.32 | mithro | kergoth: havn't heard anything about my change-res patch |
| 16:16.12 | mithro | but been busy with exams so i havn't had any more progress - next step is to write a plugin like the rotation one |
| 16:16.53 | mithro | should be in bed now, got exam tommorrow... :( |
| 16:17.35 | mithro | think i did alot better in my Computer Systems, should be high 90% exam then Electronics 2 should be barley 50% |
| 16:17.47 | *** join/#openembedded SuKoShi (~sukoshi@dyn-81-166-55-45.ppp.tiscali.fr) |
| 16:17.57 | *** join/#openembedded lsmith (~vandal@brln-d514804c.dsl.mediaWays.net) |
| 16:18.27 | masticator_ | kergoth: you got a C750? |
| 16:18.35 | kergoth | masticator_: nope |
| 16:18.46 | masticator_ | you get the 5600 working yet? |
| 16:18.50 | kergoth | masticator_: speaking of zauruses, one of these days i'll hack on our 5600 images so i can get you yours back |
| 16:18.53 | kergoth | nope |
| 16:18.55 | masticator_ | lol |
| 16:18.56 | kergoth | hehe |
| 16:18.58 | kergoth | npoe |
| 16:19.06 | masticator_ | no rush |
| 16:19.10 | kergoth | been pretty busy, and no net access at home yet |
| 16:19.11 | mithro | anyone want to send send me a c760? :) |
| 16:19.18 | kergoth | just cause i'm a lazy bastardd |
| 16:19.30 | masticator_ | so how do you like Dallas |
| 16:19.34 | masticator_ | its a shithole, right? |
| 16:19.36 | mithro | i'll get OZ working on it ;) |
| 16:19.42 | treke | kergoth: you call the cable fuckers yet? |
| 16:19.50 | masticator_ | must be hotter than hell |
| 16:20.24 | mithro | masticator_: you mean like the rest of texas ;) |
| 16:20.28 | masticator_ | the only place I can imagine being worse than dallas int he summer is new orleans, and I've been there in the summer |
| 16:21.16 | masticator_ | although if I had to chose between the two I would pick new orleans, the food rocks and you can drink alcohol in the street legally |
| 16:21.47 | kergoth | treke: naw |
| 16:21.58 | kergoth | masticator_: yeah, its humid as hell |
| 16:22.02 | treke | kergoth: lazy ass |
| 16:22.08 | kergoth | treke: yep |
| 16:22.19 | treke | ibot pester kergoth |
| 16:22.20 | | kergoth: Are we there yet? .. Are we there yet? .. Are we there yet? |
| 16:22.30 | masticator_ | kergoth: do you get drenched in sweat the minute you go outside? |
| 16:23.48 | kergoth | masticator_: either that or drenched in rain :) |
| 16:25.32 | kergoth | hmm, kconfig has python bindings. cool. |
| 16:28.43 | carsten | kergoth: http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/zaurus/index.php <-- py for the Z |
| 16:29.08 | masticator_ | the problem with python its friggin big, isnt it |
| 16:29.14 | masticator_ | it has a lot of dependencies |
| 16:29.39 | treke | carsten: pythen is part of openembedded |
| 16:29.49 | masticator_ | ultimately I think we need a built in scripting language, maybe we need to strip python down for certain core tasks |
| 16:29.52 | kergoth | carsten: mickeyl maintains an extensive set of OE python packages |
| 16:29.55 | carsten | treke: /me is just starting with .py :) |
| 16:30.59 | treke | kergoth: hrm, a python preprocessor would rock |
| 16:31.14 | treke | kergoth: something that went through fixed the parts that suck :p |
| 16:31.26 | kergoth | hehe |
| 16:31.39 | beattie`away | off to the employment deprt to find out how bad I'm screwed |
| 16:31.50 | kergoth | i didnt realize lkc had python bindings, writing oeconfig is gonna be a breeze |
| 16:31.59 | mithro | i've seen python run okay in 4k of ram |
| 16:32.32 | mithro | so python can certinaly be striped back easily... |
| 16:33.10 | cyn | hello world runs in 4k of ram, we're saved :P |
| 16:33.16 | mithro | anyway i need to be in bed |
| 16:33.20 | cyn | nite |
| 16:33.31 | mithro | hello world can run in like 40 bytes of ram :) |
| 16:33.34 | masticator_ | theres a ton of stuff in python that we dont need |
| 16:33.44 | cyn | that distro attempts to remove much of it |
| 16:33.45 | treke | or is there |
| 16:34.37 | masticator_ | pyqt looks like crap though, the last time I saw some apps written in it |
| 16:34.39 | kergoth | damnit |
| 16:34.41 | masticator_ | it looks like KDE 1.x |
| 16:34.47 | kergoth | i hate it when i forget to enable the console in 2.5.x |
| 16:34.49 | kergoth | hehe |
| 16:34.54 | treke | kergoth: hehe |
| 16:35.34 | cyn | masticator_: oh but perlTK is so beautiful it brings tears to your eyes? :P |
| 16:35.54 | treke | masticator_: you sure it wasnt just the theme? |
| 16:36.19 | masticator_ | it also ran slow as shit |
| 16:36.31 | masticator_ | especially the startup of the apps |
| 16:36.39 | *** join/#openembedded NetNut404_wrk (~NetNut404@gateway.matrixcos.com) |
| 16:36.52 | treke | yup. startup takes a while |
| 16:38.30 | kergoth | the 2.5.x buildsystem is pretty cool; |
| 16:38.53 | masticator_ | I havent played with any of the new kernels |
| 16:39.40 | treke | kergoth: I got it to compile into .ko's, but it it just complained of no module data |
| 16:39.43 | masticator_ | I stopped building kernels after 2.4 was released |
| 16:40.05 | masticator_ | it was intruding too much on my personal life |
| 16:40.06 | masticator_ | lol |
| 16:40.17 | masticator_ | "honey, come to bed" |
| 16:40.44 | masticator_ | "I'm bulding 2.4.0-ac.pre-3 honey, I'll be a while!" |
| 16:40.51 | cyn | ah |
| 16:40.56 | cyn | see you needed a wifi laptop |
| 16:40.59 | cyn | or a wifi zaurus |
| 16:41.00 | treke | sounds like hardware inadequecy |
| 16:41.10 | Thelonius | lol |
| 16:41.35 | cyn | the zaurus is nice because, ya know, a normal laptop needs too wide a base to be stable, it doesn't balance on the back of someone in motion.... errrrrrr |
| 16:41.50 | chouimat|phone | cyn: :) |
| 16:41.55 | masticator_ | I use my zaurus from the bedroom |
| 16:41.57 | masticator_ | sometimes |
| 16:42.51 | Thelonius | i would zaurus in the shower |
| 16:43.59 | masticator_ | I saw the worst movie last night it was hillarious |
| 16:44.04 | masticator_ | Sorority Boys |
| 16:44.31 | chouimat|phone | masticator_: the one with the guy in a girl dorm? |
| 16:44.44 | cyn | that movie was in no way the worst movie |
| 16:44.44 | masticator_ | several guys in girl dorm |
| 16:44.55 | cyn | it was tacky but at least it was funny at times |
| 16:45.02 | masticator_ | oh it was hillarious |
| 16:45.13 | cyn | oh you mean 'something about mary' "worst" |
| 16:45.18 | masticator_ | but it was up there in stupid |
| 16:45.21 | masticator_ | yes purposefully |
| 16:45.25 | cyn | yeah the gum flavor was good |
| 16:45.32 | NetNut404_Work | anyone have problems with opie alarm not alerting when suspended? I tried the patched binary, and it worked for like a day |
| 16:45.46 | NetNut404_Work | now it's back to the same behavior |
| 16:48.16 | kergoth | packages/kernel-collie/config.in:4:warning: defaults for choice values not supported |
| 16:48.19 | kergoth | packages/kernel-2.4.19/config.in:4:warning: defaults for choice values not supported |
| 16:48.22 | kergoth | packages/kernel-a300/config.in:4:warning: defaults for choice values not supported |
| 16:48.25 | kergoth | eek |
| 16:48.28 | kergoth | guess some things cahnged |
| 16:51.02 | kergoth | finally fixed an annoying bug.. |
| 16:51.10 | kergoth | we had included the lxdialog *binary* in bk, didnt build it |
| 16:51.25 | masticator_ | kergoth: arnold from sharp may be calling you to talk about wirellesstools stuff |
| 16:51.25 | kergoth | which broke builds on build machines that arent x86 :) |
| 16:51.33 | kergoth | masticator_: k, thats fine |
| 16:51.34 | masticator_ | he wants to get the zaurus off wlan-ng |
| 16:51.40 | kergoth | finally. |
| 16:51.56 | masticator_ | I told him to friggin use OZ as a template for the zaurus OS |
| 16:52.16 | masticator_ | would make everyone happy |
| 16:52.24 | kergoth | well, the writeable rootfs shouldnt be used, they need the symlink madness to ensure there's always a clean slate to return to |
| 16:52.32 | kergoth | but beyond that, i think everything else .. |
| 16:52.34 | masticator_ | yeah |
| 16:52.57 | masticator_ | I think OZ should have a small cramFS for the same reason |
| 16:53.04 | masticator_ | its too easy to screw up OZ |
| 16:53.59 | masticator_ | at some point we have to make the transition from hacker os to something people might want to actually use for production shit |
| 16:54.51 | kergoth | we need union mounts |
| 16:54.52 | masticator_ | lets hope I can make our plans a reality by september |
| 16:54.54 | kergoth | or something along those lines |
| 16:55.45 | kergoth | masticator_: without union mounts, its very difficult to gain both full flexibility, and full stability. its a tradeoff, since we dont have the facilitating technology |
| 16:56.51 | kergoth | now its certainly viable to produce multiple forms of images |
| 16:57.06 | kergoth | one that is designed for a writable rootfs, one with a limitation to gain stability |
| 17:00.13 | Thelonius | why would you need a writable rootfs in a consumer device? |
| 17:01.02 | kergoth | Thelonius: the openembedded distribution (as opposed to the openembedded build infrastructure) is designed for optimum flexibility |
| 17:01.20 | treke | Thelonius: not all uses of openembedded are consumer devices |
| 17:01.38 | treke | Thelonius: I want a writable root so I can remove bits I dont want and tweak others |
| 17:02.00 | treke | Thelonius: I want to be able to easilly update software. Those are tougher when the os is not writable |
| 17:02.17 | Thelonius | treke, does the device run as root? |
| 17:02.41 | treke | Thelonius: some do. It isnt necessarry |
| 17:04.56 | Thelonius | oh, because the way i have my environment build is that the absolute core files/operations of the device, are kept in a readonly packcramfs partition, while software is in cramfs (installable via freeze/thaw), while the user area is jffs2 |
| 17:07.29 | Thelonius | i like it because i can rollout service pack type system upgrades |
| 17:08.23 | kergoth | Thelonius: and what if a user wants to update a package in the supposed 'core'? |
| 17:08.52 | Thelonius | through the upgrade process |
| 17:09.09 | Thelonius | which pretty much is a wget the new package |
| 17:09.11 | Thelonius | then dd |
| 17:09.22 | Thelonius | (which it does transparently as root) |
| 17:09.34 | kergoth | and what packages are core? |
| 17:09.52 | kergoth | is pcmcia-cs core? the system can run without pcmcia, yet without it you may not have any connectivity means. |
| 17:09.56 | kergoth | just one example of many. |
| 17:10.01 | Thelonius | gcc/glibc |
| 17:10.05 | kergoth | what? |
| 17:10.06 | Thelonius | stuff like that |
| 17:10.11 | kergoth | uh, gcc isnt in a consumer device |
| 17:10.17 | kergoth | that we call a 'development tool' |
| 17:10.18 | Thelonius | just stuff the machine needs to boot |
| 17:10.30 | kergoth | define boot. |
| 17:17.30 | treke | writable root makes sense from the point of view of users that want to treat their device as regular unix system, which some do want to do |
| 17:18.58 | kergoth | okay, who's got oz bkbits locked? :) |
| 17:19.53 | treke | not i |
| 17:28.43 | kergoth | hrmph |
| 17:28.53 | kergoth | lkc doesnt support defaults for 'choice' blocks anymore |
| 17:29.00 | kergoth | ah well |
| 17:30.57 | Thelonius | kergoth, just the essential linux components to boot the system to a shell |
| 17:32.32 | treke | Thelonius: kergoth's point is that we dont dictate what is needed in a base system. There may or may not even be a shell |
| 17:33.43 | *** join/#openembedded ocr|bj (noidentd@port-212-202-34-201.reverse.qsc.de) |
| 17:34.18 | Thelonius | ook |
| 17:34.55 | *** join/#openembedded ljp_laptop (~ljp@tq0182.peakpeak.com) |
| 17:38.15 | ljp_laptop | something about Lindon makes companies have bad decisions |
| 17:41.55 | bipolar | This new kernel with -ck patches is really nice. my mp3's don't skip anymore :) |
| 17:42.08 | kergoth | :) |
| 17:42.28 | bipolar | kergoth: does the zaurus kernel have anything like this? |
| 17:44.22 | kergoth | anything like ck? well, you can get preempt |
| 17:44.31 | kergoth | i dunno if low latency and some of the other bits would be happy on arm |
| 17:44.43 | kergoth | andrea wants to get aavm working on the rmk trees, to run it on his Z |
| 17:45.17 | bipolar | hehe |
| 17:45.54 | bipolar | maybe something like that would keep my mp3's from skipping every once in a while. :) |
| 17:48.38 | SuKoShi | kergoth: my actual kernel is low latency patched |
| 17:48.59 | SuKoShi | (and preempt too :p ) |
| 17:49.05 | kergoth | schurig: enabling syslog by default for all OE devices is a policy decision that should have been discussed prior to implementation. |
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| 17:51.25 | kergoth | hrmph |
| 17:51.53 | schurig | kergoth: ups, where did I do this? (it was by accident if I did it) |
| 17:52.13 | kergoth | schurig: s/enabling/starting/ |
| 17:52.14 | schurig | kergoth: sending e-mail from foreign computers is a policy decision that should have been discussed prior to |
| 17:52.14 | schurig | implementation |
| 17:52.35 | schurig | ah, starting. Hmm, why does one want to install that beast and than not start it? |
| 17:52.49 | kergoth | beast? its a busybox component |
| 17:52.56 | kergoth | and its only generally needed for debugging |
| 17:53.19 | schurig | ok, then it is normally not installed and then not started. |
| 17:53.28 | kergoth | what? |
| 17:53.34 | kergoth | its busybox. of course its normally installed. |
| 17:53.39 | kergoth | this isnt that complex. |
| 17:54.05 | schurig | busybox is not one huge monolythic file, I changed just busybox-sysklogd, not busybox |
| 17:54.17 | kergoth | the *symlink* is normally installed |
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| 17:54.27 | kergoth | *syslogd* is obviously installed, as an object in the busybox binary |
| 17:54.34 | schurig | I made a postinst script, not a symlink |
| 17:54.38 | kergoth | schurig: you're not listening |
| 17:54.43 | kergoth | schurig: busybox-syslogd installs a symlink, not syslogd. |
| 17:54.55 | kergoth | but yes, the *symlink* *is* installed by default |
| 17:55.28 | schurig | there is no busybox-syslogd. There is a busybox-sysklogd. And it does *NOT* contain a symlink |
| 17:55.38 | schurig | it contains a postinst script. |
| 17:55.41 | kergoth | busybox-sysklogd does contain a symlink. |
| 17:55.44 | kergoth | you want to bet? |
| 17:55.48 | kergoth | i wrote the busybox packaging script |
| 17:56.11 | kergoth | it helps to read the code of which you speak. |
| 17:56.27 | schurig | kergoth: at least not the busybox-sysklogd that is in my feed, that I compiled last night. |
| 17:56.41 | Neo|Work | stupid debian. To get gnuserv I need emacs installed. I use xemacs and don't WANT emacs installed |
| 17:56.49 | schurig | but /etc/init.d/syslog is in the busybox ipk ... |
| 17:57.13 | kergoth | ~/oz/gatekeeper$ cat scripts/busybox-packages/categories |grep sysk -A3 |
| 17:57.13 | kergoth | category sysklogd "Busybox sysklogd" nodepends \ |
| 17:57.13 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:57.13 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:57.13 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:57.37 | kergoth | seems clear enough. |
| 17:57.48 | schurig | # ipkg files busybox-sysklogd |
| 17:57.49 | schurig | Package busybox-sysklogd (0.61.pre-20030423-1) is installed on root and has the following files: |
| 17:57.50 | schurig | /. |
| 17:57.50 | schurig | /sbin/ |
| 17:57.51 | schurig | /sbin/syslogd |
| 17:57.54 | kergoth | exactly |
| 17:57.55 | schurig | and that's it |
| 17:58.10 | kergoth | ls -l /sbin/syslogd for me. |
| 17:58.14 | schurig | ahhh, you don't mean the /etc/rc* symlink. |
| 17:58.19 | kergoth | did i say that? |
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| 17:58.49 | schurig | kergoth: our talk was in the context that busybox's syslogd and klogd get started. |
| 17:59.00 | kergoth | schurig: yes, and you asked if syslogd was installed by default |
| 17:59.05 | kergoth | schurig: syslogd, not the script |
| 17:59.11 | kergoth | schurig: i statedd obviously it is, because its part of the busybox binary |
| 17:59.16 | schurig | kergoth: my point is, that they only get started when you install the busybox-sysklogd package, because the postinst script there creates the symlink in /etc/rc2.d and at some other places. |
| 17:59.18 | kergoth | schurig: seems clear enough to me. |
| 17:59.47 | schurig | and busybox-sysklogd is not installed by default if you think that it is needed for debugging purposes. I install it by default ... |
| 17:59.55 | kergoth | so you're saying we should not include the syslogd symlink by default if it wont be utilized? so the user requires network connectivity to debug.. fun. |
| 18:00.13 | schurig | kergoth: stop talking about symlinks. I have not made any change to any symlink |
| 18:00.24 | kergoth | schurig: did i say you did? |
| 18:00.30 | kergoth | schurig: i think not. listen to what i say, not what you think i say. |
| 18:01.04 | schurig | I have not made ANY change to any symlinks. I'm not getting on why you insist on them. |
| 18:01.26 | kergoth | i'm not insisting on them, i answered your question regarding whether syslogd is installed by default. |
| 18:01.40 | kergoth | you didnt ask if the *startup script* was installed by default. |
| 18:01.48 | kergoth | if you want an answer to a question, it helps to state the question properly |
| 18:01.55 | cyn | busybox is a monolithic binary |
| 18:02.01 | cyn | depending on what it was called at is how it runs |
| 18:02.16 | kergoth | indeed it is. therefore syslogd is always installed regardless of the condition of the busybox links. |
| 18:02.20 | cyn | right |
| 18:02.21 | schurig | kergoth: the point is: is busybox-sysklogd installed by default. |
| 18:02.34 | schurig | of course almost all of use installs busybox itself ... |
| 18:03.02 | kergoth | schurig: normally yes, so that debugging is convenient and does not require something external to the device |
| 18:03.06 | cyn | it doesn't run because you don't want to burn all that space |
| 18:03.14 | cyn | flash or ram |
| 18:03.34 | schurig | if you install busybox-sysklogd, then why would it make sense to not USE it then? Just for the symlink /bin/busybox -> /sbin/syslogd? |
| 18:03.38 | kergoth | right. the memory consumption by something normally only needed for explicit debugging cases. |
| 18:04.03 | kergoth | schurig: and for the /etc/init.d/syslog script, which *should* be in that package, but isnt. |
| 18:04.21 | schurig | kergoth: it's in the big busybox_*.ipk ... |
| 18:04.30 | kergoth | what part of 'but isnt' do you not get? |
| 18:04.36 | kergoth | i know its in the big busybox ipk |
| 18:04.45 | schurig | anyway, it was just busybox-sysklogd that has this strange behavior compared to all other daemons. |
| 18:04.55 | schurig | for them, you install them and they all start. |
| 18:05.20 | schurig | just this one needs extra fiddling. I thought this as a bug (in my context it is one) |
| 18:05.27 | schurig | s/needs/needed/ |
| 18:05.33 | cyn | yeah it's missing the script |
| 18:05.36 | cyn | i believe he mentioned that |
| 18:05.45 | cyn | in agreement with ya |
| 18:05.51 | schurig | cyn: and I added the postinst script, but now kergoth doesn't like that. |
| 18:05.55 | kergoth | once again, whether a thing is started by default is a policy decision. for your device its preferred, for our device it isnt. |
| 18:06.10 | kergoth | this isnt that complex a thing to understand. |
| 18:06.15 | schurig | actually, I could say "If you want a daemon but not start if, do rm -f /etc/rc*.d/*syslog" ... |
| 18:06.20 | Thelonius | kergoth, are you getting paid right now? |
| 18:06.58 | kergoth | schurig: i'm referring to the default behaviors as shipped. i'll just add an rm in the image creation workarounds script as a temporary solution. |
| 18:07.12 | kergoth | schurig: the proper solution is to handle this within a 'first boot' behaviors/wizard/script |
| 18:07.27 | Neo|Work | 70424310 ?r-sr-sr-- 2075 2075 40300 136027500 May 4 1974 mime-colorful-dn.xpm |
| 18:07.28 | Neo|Work | gah |
| 18:08.25 | cyn | definitely don't want syslog enabled as per default |
| 18:08.29 | schurig | kergoth: ok, that's one solution. However, I understood that for you syslogd is a debug-tool. If I got at least this, then you see it as a debug tool, when why do you install busybox-sysklogd by default on each image? |
| 18:08.49 | kergoth | schurig: because then if a user wants to debug a problem, then dont need an *externel* means of installing this new package |
| 18:09.01 | kergoth | schurig: what if the problem they're debugging is in the very *means* they need to obtain it? |
| 18:09.20 | schurig | kergoth: ok, then I'd suggest this: I make an additional busybox-sysklogd-start package, that does the start |
| 18:09.31 | cyn | there's a difference between making it all available, and enabling it per default |
| 18:09.39 | kergoth | schurig: i disagree, otherwise maintaining the number of packages will be a nightmare |
| 18:09.42 | cyn | wouldn't a config file make sense |
| 18:09.53 | kergoth | schurig: particularly if we do this across all similar daemons for consistency |
| 18:10.00 | cyn | /etc/syslogd #uncomment next line to enable syslog at boot #enable='yes' or some shit |
| 18:10.34 | schurig | hehe, I added the "start-me" :-) postinst script because I wanted consistency |
| 18:10.47 | kergoth | cyn: not a bad idea, though its explicit to syslog, and i can see us running into similar circumstances in the future |
| 18:10.51 | kergoth | schurig: yes, i realize that |
| 18:11.04 | schurig | apmd starts, scannerd (for our laser scanner) starts, proftpd starts ... they all started. Just this one not. |
| 18:11.25 | kergoth | schurig: but as a consequence it affected the default state of resources for deployment. |
| 18:12.08 | kergoth | and thereby exposed the lack in our system.. that is, that we have no way of exerting more control on what daemons are started/not on the image at image creation time |
| 18:12.16 | schurig | kergoth: /etc/init.d/ppp has something like: if [ -x /etc/ppp/ppp_on_boot ]; then RUNFILE=1; fi |
| 18:12.35 | kergoth | schurig: right, but i dont want one of those for every single daemon |
| 18:12.42 | schurig | :-) |
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| 18:12.49 | kergoth | we need a more general way of handling the problem |
| 18:13.05 | schurig | kergoth: some opie-settings-sysvinit ? |
| 18:13.08 | kergoth | as i said, i'll work around it in the image creation extras script, for the moment |
| 18:13.16 | kergoth | schurig: thats what i was thinking as well. maybe a first boot wizard runs it |
| 18:13.38 | cyn | well |
| 18:13.51 | cyn | nah nevermind |
| 18:14.09 | cyn | was gunna say have a subdir of etc for daemon starts but that'd be a rework on all other daemons stupidly |
| 18:14.26 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:14.26 | kergoth | yep |
| 18:14.36 | kergoth | sysvinit is already a mess, lets not add more mess to it |
| 18:15.40 | kergoth | Thelonius: yes, i'm at work |
| 18:15.44 | kergoth | :) |
| 18:15.50 | Thelonius | i need to get paid for this stuff too |
| 18:15.51 | Thelonius | :S |
| 18:16.05 | kergoth | Thelonius: stuff=arguing? ;) |
| 18:16.12 | Thelonius | i feel like sobbing... my city will be the death of me if I don't get drafted this year |
| 18:16.39 | Thelonius | kergoth, arguing? nah, i just wanted to contrast my environment to yours, so that I can see the weaknesses of my layout |
| 18:16.53 | kergoth | gotcha. |
| 18:18.04 | schurig | kergoth: btw, can we take of our flame protection suits now :-) |
| 18:18.17 | kergoth | schurig: yay |
| 18:18.35 | schurig | Thelonius: hehe, I'm getting paid for my stuff, too |
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| 18:18.51 | Thelonius | schurig, where do you live? |
| 18:19.16 | kergoth | schurig: i have a really really really basic oemaked |
| 18:19.25 | kergoth | schurig: it monitors a set of oe files for changes and reruns oemake |
| 18:19.27 | kergoth | schurig: hehe |
| 18:19.29 | schurig | Thelonius: Germany. Actually, we'd need developers, but my boss is very reluctant to emply foreigners (or people without the needed work permit, e.g. foreigner from EU is ok) |
| 18:19.51 | schurig | kergoth: without database yet, I guess? |
| 18:20.12 | kergoth | schurig: right, i havent had time to learn that part yet.. |
| 18:20.18 | schurig | hehe |
| 18:20.35 | schurig | kergoth: pydoc freeze & thaw |
| 18:20.46 | kergoth | schurig: i saw today that LKC has python bindings.. should make oeconfig easy |
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| 18:20.50 | schurig | (but that was from memory and I'm not that pythonic that I can do everything from my mind) |
| 18:20.51 | kergoth | cool |
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| 18:20.58 | schurig | cool |
| 18:21.12 | kergoth | i can never recall specifics, always need references onhand for syntax and stuff |
| 18:21.49 | schurig | kergoth: for many thinks I recall specifics, e.g. for many perl things. But I haven't done so much in python yet, just oestuff any our hardware tester for Ramses |
| 18:21.50 | zecke|food | schurig: and I heard one doesn't have to have a degree to work at M&N :) |
| 18:22.01 | kergoth | schurig: ah |
| 18:22.02 | kergoth | brb |
| 18:22.02 | treke | zecke: how you feeling? |
| 18:22.29 | schurig | zecke: right, we had too many people with degrees but without knowledge or the ability to aquire knowledge on their own |
| 18:22.45 | zecke | treke: depends if it is an even hour or odd hour ;) |
| 18:22.53 | treke | hehe |
| 18:23.34 | zecke | treke: currently it is even and one of the 'exits' closed and there is a body fluid traffic jam... |
| 18:26.31 | Twiun | hrmph |
| 18:27.23 | Twiun | Aha! |
| 18:32.17 | Twiun | kergoth: what kind of server should I learn to make for the boot-progress stuff? |
| 18:32.36 | treke | <kergoth> a scotch server |
| 18:33.54 | kergoth | mmm scotch |
| 18:34.27 | Twiun | I'm looking at the linux programmer's manual for inter-process communications |
| 18:35.07 | treke | Twiun: look at how the bootsplash guys do it? |
| 18:35.15 | kergoth | Twiun: i'd recommend looking at stephen's advanced programming in the unix environment |
| 18:35.21 | kergoth | Twiun: the code samples from it are online.. |
| 18:35.31 | kergoth | Twiun: he lays out everything to do to properly daemonize |
| 18:36.03 | Twiun | kergoth: ok |
| 18:36.25 | chouimat | fuck! I'm out of box |
| 18:37.05 | Twiun | kergoth: ok, saved the code, I'll read through it |
| 18:37.44 | kergoth | Twiun: there's probably a 'daemonize' function in the minimal qws server that just follows those steps.. |
| 18:37.48 | kergoth | Twiun: :) |
| 18:38.28 | chouimat | kergoth: I will back on broadband ... july 4 or 7 |
| 18:38.50 | kergoth | chouimat: when do you lose your current access? |
| 18:39.16 | Twiun | kergoth: you mean without using qt calls? |
| 18:39.34 | kergoth | Twiun: yep, its just an excerpt of C code |
| 18:39.40 | kergoth | however thats spelled |
| 18:39.46 | kergoth | ibot: dict excerpt |
| 18:39.56 | kergoth | ah, guess that was right |
| 18:40.20 | Twiun | got to happen sometime :) |
| 18:40.25 | chouimat | kergoth: the computers must be pack for the 24th but since I don't have boxes for them ... I will offline saturday night |
| 18:40.25 | kergoth | :) |
| 18:40.34 | kergoth | chouimat: ah |
| 18:40.49 | kergoth | chouimat: better get some books or something, you're gonna be bored :) |
| 18:41.09 | chouimat | kergoth: hehe I'm moving my brother the 22th so ... |
| 18:43.20 | chouimat | kergoth: I will have a 56k access :( |
| 18:44.21 | kergoth | chouimat: better than nothing at least |
| 18:45.23 | chouimat | kergoth: yyupp ... I wonder how long to compile OZ on that |
| 18:45.30 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:45.44 | kergoth | it downloads like 400mb, doesnt it? |
| 18:45.51 | kergoth | do a make sources before you leave :) |
| 18:46.31 | chouimat | kergoth: which one? www.kantron.net/adsl.htm |
| 18:48.46 | kergoth | i'd go with basic, home if i was picking from those. but personally i dont need the kind of bandwidth i used to |
| 18:49.12 | treke | kergoth: lies |
| 18:49.47 | kergoth | its true, all i need to download nowadays is mp3s and upstream sources :) |
| 18:49.52 | chouimat | kergoth: with my cable connection I do 360KB/s |
| 18:50.07 | chouimat | kergoth: and a static ip ;) |
| 18:53.07 | schurig | wow, is ADSL expensive in the states |
| 18:53.11 | chouimat | schurig: how much for a rammses? |
| 18:53.20 | chouimat | schurig: those price are in .ca |
| 18:53.34 | schurig | ah, CA$ is less than US$? |
| 18:54.02 | chouimat | Sugar: what is 1cad in usd |
| 18:54.04 | Sugar | 1 CAD is 0.74349439 US$ |
| 18:54.14 | chouimat | schurig: ^------------^ |
| 18:54.36 | schurig | chouimat: the 32243712 bytes is the JFFS2 flash file system. I wrote my burner so that he strips #ff bytes from the end of flash sectors (the erase cmd to StrateFlash makes $ff there anyway), so it takes not too long too flash, about 220 seconds |
| 18:55.58 | schurig | Sugar: what is 34.95cad in euro? |
| 18:58.04 | schurig | chouimat: isn't sugar a bot? |
| 18:58.12 | schurig | Sugar: what is 34.95cad in eur? |
| 18:58.41 | chouimat | Sugar: what is 34.95 cad in euro |
| 18:58.43 | Sugar | 34.950001 CAD is 21.983421 EUR |
| 18:59.54 | schurig | chouimat: he doesn't like dialects ... |
| 19:00.14 | chouimat | schurig: do yyouu know the price of the ramses? |
| 19:00.29 | schurig | chouimat: round about |
| 19:00.40 | schurig | chouimat: but I can give you the number of our sales-people |
| 19:00.57 | schurig | chouimat: I'd say it's too big for normal use. It's not a PDA, remember. |
| 19:01.12 | schurig | normal people use as PDA to keep track of addresses and todos |
| 19:01.16 | schurig | i meant |
| 19:01.43 | chouimat | schurig: i know but since i may need a industrial thingy for a heavy use project |
| 19:01.45 | kergoth | geh, i forgot to pull the 'dont strip my tabs in the python env data' fix into the split parser |
| 19:02.49 | chouimat | schurig: we are think by get oa dap tech. computer but since i will need to port linux to it :( |
| 19:04.01 | kergoth | yay, oemake fires higher level pkg failure and success events now |
| 19:04.15 | kergoth | something up with the unsatisfied dep one though.. hrm |
| 19:09.59 | treke | cool. only took three freaking hours to respond to email today |
| 19:11.18 | *** join/#openembedded TeaX (~tx@ppp-142-159.27-151.libero.it) |
| 19:19.03 | NetNut404_Work | ugghhh this does not make any sense |
| 19:19.50 | NetNut404_Work | if /etc/localtime is what sets your timezone on the console.. (chich appears to) |
| 19:20.30 | Thelonius | p |
| 19:20.41 | NetNut404_Work | after rebooting with that file there it makes my time jump off to utc time whenever i suspend |
| 19:22.16 | NetNut404_Work | even though I am listed at pst (like I should be) when I run the date command |
| 19:22.48 | *** join/#openembedded hcarty (~hcarty@dsl093-100-214.wdc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:23.22 | NetNut404_Work | what freakin good is a pda that you can't get to notify you of appointments reliably? |
| 19:23.53 | Thelonius | heheheh |
| 19:24.15 | Thelonius | NetNut404_Work, it makes you look professional |
| 19:24.16 | Thelonius | ? |
| 19:24.57 | NetNut404_Work | lol.. not when you miss your appointment |
| 19:25.54 | NetNut404_Work | doesn't anyone else use their pda's alerts? or do all those people live in the UTC timezone!?!? |
| 19:26.08 | kergoth | uh, most peopel dont fuck with /etc/localtime |
| 19:26.14 | kergoth | mine works just fine. |
| 19:26.19 | kergoth | and this is the WRONG CHANNEL |
| 19:26.24 | kergoth | #openzaurus is user support |
| 19:26.33 | kergoth | #openembedded is *developer* discussion |
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| 19:26.42 | kergoth | read the topics |
| 19:27.01 | NetNut404_Work | yeah.. but that's the channel everyone sleeps in |
| 19:27.12 | kergoth | and? |
| 19:27.59 | kergoth | thats still the proper place for user support. activity changes nothing |
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| 19:28.40 | NetNut404_Work | I am looking for a real answer on how to get this thing to resume from suspend so that you get notified of an appointment, and talking to deaf/ sleeping people does not help |
| 19:29.07 | Twiun | kergoth: those sources were good, but without the book, I'll go back to the previous docs for textual descriptions :) |
| 19:29.34 | kergoth | NetNut404_Work: and thats my problem how exactly? |
| 19:29.46 | kergoth | NetNut404_Work: use proper communications channels, or you wont get help. period. |
| 19:30.41 | NetNut404_Work | been there.. done that bloody useless.. and I won't go into your problems.. |
| 19:31.08 | *** mode/#openembedded [+b *!*NetNut404@*.matrixcos.com] by kergoth |
| 19:31.09 | *** kick/#openembedded [NetNut404_Work!~kergoth@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net] by kergoth (kergoth) |
| 19:31.17 | kergoth | gross idiocy. |
| 19:31.22 | kergoth | apparently rules are difficult to comprehend |
| 19:33.22 | *** mode/#openembedded [-b *!*NetNut404@*.matrixcos.com] by kergoth |
| 19:34.32 | tux_mike | anyone know if QT has a good parser for XML |
| 19:34.46 | kergoth | dunno, you can use it for Z programming anyway |
| 19:34.49 | kergoth | since its disabled |
| 19:34.58 | kergoth | I like xmltree in libopie |
| 19:35.01 | tux_mike | you mean cant |
| 19:35.04 | kergoth | simple, functional |
| 19:35.06 | tux_mike | xmltree? |
| 19:35.07 | kergoth | right, cnat |
| 19:35.11 | bipolar | haha |
| 19:35.13 | *** part/#openembedded hcarty (~hcarty@dsl093-100-214.wdc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:35.14 | tux_mike | cant? :) |
| 19:35.18 | nofpu | there're 2 - 1 is disabled |
| 19:35.24 | bipolar | there ya go :) |
| 19:35.25 | kergoth | and yet, when i say i cant type, i finally get it right |
| 19:35.27 | kergoth | how odd |
| 19:35.30 | tux_mike | any docs on xmltree? |
| 19:35.54 | Twiun | kergoth: how does a fifo sound for the progress stuff? |
| 19:36.12 | Twiun | kergoth: looking for a 'best-practice' thing here |
| 19:36.32 | kergoth | hmm |
| 19:36.44 | nofpu | deriving from QXmlDefaultHandler works ok |
| 19:37.09 | tux_mike | hrm... i think i'll take this xml file and make a new format from it |
| 19:37.39 | tux_mike | the xml file is huge anyway, and if it was to be all read, it would fill up ram quickly |
| 19:38.31 | Twiun | there's two ways to read xml files usually... |
| 19:39.01 | Twiun | dom and sax - dom rebuilds the tree in ram, the other doesn't |
| 19:39.22 | tux_mike | well, i was prolly gonna use expat |
| 19:39.49 | Twiun | no idea what expat uses as a parsing model though ;) |
| 19:40.01 | tux_mike | but, making the file more compact is something i'd like to do for any program on the Z |
| 19:40.54 | Twiun | I was sure there was a xmlz format ;) |
| 19:40.57 | tux_mike | i think expat works like sax, but i'd still need to load the whole file into ram, then replicate all the data in a usable form, which would lend to be about 6-10M |
| 19:41.03 | tux_mike | the file itself is 2M |
| 19:41.14 | Twiun | yikes - what's in that file? |
| 19:41.19 | xson | kergoth: i know you are a judge in the community giveaway, in your opinion which app is going to win the grand prize? |
| 19:41.48 | kergoth | xson: not certain, i've been out of the loop completely for over a month due to the move |
| 19:44.19 | tux_mike | twiun: geocaches |
| 19:44.32 | tux_mike | and i could make it larger |
| 19:44.53 | Twiun | is xml really the right format for this? |
| 19:45.14 | xson | kergoth: ok |
| 19:46.18 | tux_mike | it's an xml based format called gpx |
| 19:46.30 | tux_mike | it's supposed to be more adaptable |
| 19:47.07 | tux_mike | what i'm gonna do is chop it up, and make a binary file for it |
| 19:47.19 | Twiun | sounds like a bloody good idea :) |
| 19:47.32 | tux_mike | and i'm gonna make a program for the Z to find caches and upload them to a GPS |
| 19:47.45 | Twiun | sounds good |
| 19:47.48 | tux_mike | and later i may add more gps options |
| 19:47.51 | *** join/#openembedded cmartin (~cmartin@p5087C088.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:48.31 | cmartin | hi |
| 19:49.16 | tux_mike | twiun: were you the other person in here that said they liked to geocache? |
| 19:49.32 | Twiun | tux_mike: afraid not |
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| 20:02.39 | *** join/#openembedded ljp_laptop (~ljp@tq0103.peakpeak.com) |
| 20:03.38 | cmartin | this so cool - opie-irc on a SIMpad with 800x600 |
| 20:04.07 | ljp_laptop | crazy, man |
| 20:04.08 | Twiun | having fun are we? |
| 20:11.54 | Twiun | kergoth: so, what kind of ipc should I use for our daemon? |
| 20:12.20 | kergoth | hmmm |
| 20:13.37 | icefox | hey there |
| 20:13.39 | icefox | hey kergoth |
| 20:13.47 | icefox | fun at the inlaws |
| 20:13.52 | icefox | but now I am home again |
| 20:13.54 | icefox | yah! |
| 20:14.24 | icefox | got that jffs2 rom app? |
| 20:14.43 | kergoth | Twiun: i'd say a pipe or shm. compare how sysvinit gets spoken to via 'init'/'telinit' as compared to how 'need'/'provide' communicate with simpleinit |
| 20:30.10 | *** join/#openembedded TimRiker (~timr@proxyle02.ext.ti.com) |
| 20:30.51 | Twiun | kergoth: ok |
| 20:33.09 | *** join/#openembedded cmartin (~cmartin@p5087C088.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:38.20 | Twiun | hmmm, simpleinit uses fifos |
| 20:39.07 | kergoth | Twiun: ah |
| 20:39.18 | Twiun | well... one fifo :) |
| 20:39.29 | Twiun | /dev/initctl is where it makes its home |
| 20:39.32 | bipolar | [OT] Does anyone know a way to tell Windows 2000 update to stop trying to install IE6? This is pissing me off. |
| 20:40.32 | ||ugh | bipolar, ah...install Linux over the MS-drek? :r) |
| 20:40.36 | Neo|Work | bipolar: yeah, it's easy. Install IE6 and it'll stop |
| 20:41.10 | bipolar | shit |
| 20:42.02 | bipolar | I don't want any PC here to install IE6 and the automatic update keeps saying it's a 'critical update' and automaticly selecting it for install. bastards... |
| 20:47.13 | *** join/#openembedded beattie (~beattie@dsl093-039-043.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:51.18 | kergoth | bipolar: glad i always keep the automatic update service disabled |
| 20:51.35 | kergoth | ~/oe/packages$ OEFILES="content/ipkg-0.99.84.oe" oemake |
| 20:51.35 | kergoth | NOTE: package content/ipkg-0.99.84-r0: dependency virtual/libc unsatisfied |
| 20:51.37 | kergoth | ^^smooth |
| 20:51.40 | kergoth | heheh |
| 20:51.57 | bipolar | kergoth: thats cool. When can the mortals start using it? :) |
| 20:52.22 | kergoth | hrmm |
| 20:52.45 | kergoth | this may not end up properly failing out the packages that end up depending on ipkg-0.99.84-r0 |
| 20:52.54 | kergoth | I better search the digraph for those cases and remove those packages from the build |
| 20:53.02 | kergoth | otherwise itll bite me later |
| 20:53.09 | treke | kergoth: anything back from the fsf? |
| 20:53.24 | kergoth | treke: on OZ gpl compliance? |
| 20:53.27 | treke | yeah |
| 20:53.39 | kergoth | nah, i told em we'd take care of it, and havent heard anything since |
| 20:53.44 | treke | hehe |
| 20:53.46 | treke | pig fuckers |
| 20:53.49 | Neo|Work | what is your problem with GPL? |
| 20:54.02 | kergoth | Neo|Work: we pull sources from upstream and distribute binaries |
| 20:54.13 | kergoth | Neo|Work: because we dont maintain the upstream url, we cant guarantee they'll stay available |
| 20:54.30 | kergoth | but of course our binaries would still be available regardless |
| 20:54.44 | kergoth | basically it comes down to maintaining a mirror of the upstream sources so we can have them onhand |
| 20:54.55 | Twiun | who was it that was suggesting doing just that on dvd? |
| 20:54.59 | bipolar | hmmmm.... have the build system tarball up the build/ directory and stash it somewhere with a datestamp? |
| 20:55.06 | treke | I was going to make release backups on dvd |
| 20:55.12 | kergoth | bipolar: what about feed updates? |
| 20:55.17 | Twiun | aha! I wasn't sure it was you treke |
| 20:55.31 | kergoth | bipolar: a source tarball at release time doesnt satisfy the requirements for feed ipks that werent in the release |
| 20:55.56 | bipolar | kergoth: thats what I mean. After you build, tar up the build dir and stash it. That includes builds of updates. |
| 20:56.00 | Twiun | kergoth: offload the responsability on package maintainers? |
| 20:56.15 | kergoth | bipolar: you have any idea how much upstream source duplication thatd involve? |
| 20:56.16 | Neo|Work | kergoth: how annoying |
| 20:56.20 | kergoth | bipolar: a mirror is *one* copy of the files. |
| 20:56.21 | bipolar | kergoth: a lot. |
| 20:56.22 | kergoth | heh |
| 20:56.30 | kergoth | Neo|Work: no kidding |
| 20:56.32 | Twiun | kergoth: get oe to notify maintainers that sources aren't available or something? |
| 20:56.47 | treke | get the oe buildsystem to update the source mirror |
| 20:56.52 | kergoth | Neo|Work: tim had to give me shit about getting noticed, since the tux and uclibc buildroot's never got contated re: compliance |
| 20:56.55 | bipolar | lots-n-lots of duplicating. But it's a simple solution. |
| 20:56.59 | kergoth | mirroring is easiest |
| 20:57.07 | bipolar | as long as we have the disk space... heh |
| 20:57.11 | kergoth | bipolar: no, i'm knee deep in new buildsystem |
| 20:57.23 | treke | brb |
| 20:57.24 | kergoth | bipolar: can add mirroring no problem |
| 20:57.54 | SuKoShi | kergoth: how big is it? |
| 20:57.58 | treke | I can mirror |
| 20:58.03 | kergoth | hmm, i need to walk _up_ the tree from the unsatisfied dep, removing as we go |
| 20:58.16 | treke | I have space and bandwidth and a host that is willing :p |
| 20:58.20 | bipolar | ~lart windows update |
| 20:58.28 | kergoth | ~lart bipolar for leaving windows update enabled |
| 20:58.38 | kergoth | ~fishslap ibot |
| 20:58.39 | | ACTION slaps ibot up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 20:58.40 | bipolar | kergoth: I don't have it turned on. |
| 20:58.53 | kergoth | bipolar: dont disable automatic update, disable the service that runs it |
| 20:59.04 | kergoth | bipolar: dont set it to manual, set it to disabled. then it wont be able to start it. |
| 20:59.13 | Neo|Work | kergoth: getting noticed must suck. ;-) |
| 20:59.15 | treke | kergoth: Whenever a maintainer who has mirror updating set up does a build, it sends updated source to the mirror in tarballs labled name-ver-revision |
| 20:59.25 | bipolar | kergoth: the problem is that whenever you run windows update manualy, or have it set to just download updates, it always defaults to installing IE6. |
| 20:59.32 | kergoth | treke: yeah, easy enough |
| 20:59.32 | treke | maybe on a make mirror_update target |
| 20:59.44 | treke | or make mirror_package |
| 20:59.53 | kergoth | there are no targets persay, but we'll accomplish the same thing |
| 20:59.59 | kergoth | i'll make it check for a control file in your homedir |
| 21:00.06 | kergoth | ~/.oemirroring or something |
| 21:00.18 | treke | it should check that the version-revision isnt already mirrored to save bandwidth |
| 21:00.55 | treke | space is cheap |
| 21:01.01 | kergoth | indeed |
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| 21:07.23 | Twiun | and do we need to mirror everything for cvs, or can we mirror in incremental patches? |
| 21:08.16 | cyn | how does debian handle that |
| 21:08.25 | cyn | I mean, they release debs and -source packages |
| 21:10.26 | Twiun | kergoth: ooo, sexy progress indicator for bk resole... new thing? |
| 21:10.42 | treke | cyn: debian mirrors a source tarball |
| 21:10.49 | Twiun | s/resole/resolve/ |
| 21:11.11 | cyn | treke: right but how long do they keep it all/etc. |
| 21:11.17 | treke | cyn: debians package pools dont come out of cvs, they come from whatever the maintainer tars up |
| 21:11.31 | cyn | oh shit right |
| 21:11.31 | cyn | cvs |
| 21:12.36 | Twiun | kergoth: commits@picogui.org? |
| 21:12.43 | *** join/#openembedded zecke (~ich@pD9E7F48E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:13.05 | Twiun | hey zecke |
| 21:13.21 | tux_mike | hrm. where can i get some liquid N2 |
| 21:13.27 | Twiun | hahaha |
| 21:14.44 | cyn | wanna make some icecream or somethin |
| 21:15.59 | *** join/#openembedded TimRiker (~timr@proxyle01.ext.ti.com) |
| 21:16.05 | Twiun | hey tim |
| 21:17.12 | tux_mike | yah, it sounds good |
| 21:17.18 | tux_mike | then freeze dry the ice cream |
| 21:17.19 | tux_mike | :) |
| 21:19.03 | *** part/#openembedded zoid (zoid@nr9-216-68-182-95.fuse.net) |
| 21:21.13 | hardwire | y0. |
| 21:21.23 | ljp_laptop | yo, G |
| 21:21.33 | chouimat | re |
| 21:29.38 | kergoth | damnit, my mouse buttons on my laptop stopped working in X again |
| 21:30.01 | kergoth | Twiun: commits@picogui.org = CIA bot. /join #commits |
| 21:30.08 | ljp_laptop | funny, mine do that sometimes also |
| 21:30.21 | treke | kergoth: what kind of laptop? |
| 21:30.32 | kergoth | dell latitude |
| 21:32.07 | treke | how do you like it? |
| 21:32.57 | kergoth | seems nice. 1400x1050 rez |
| 21:33.22 | *** part/#openembedded xson (~cris@host6-196.pool80181.interbusiness.it) |
| 21:34.22 | Twiun | kergoth: responsive? |
| 21:34.43 | kergoth | seems to be. p4 1.8 |
| 21:34.54 | kergoth | course i use an old 1ghz tbird for my desktop :) |
| 21:34.58 | Twiun | lol |
| 21:35.01 | Twiun | not too hot? |
| 21:35.03 | kergoth | i'm amazed at how much scsi has spoiled me though |
| 21:35.13 | kergoth | playing dvds on this thing is pathetic compared to that box |
| 21:35.25 | kergoth | cpu usage, etc during streaming off and to the ide devices |
| 21:37.16 | kergoth | there we go |
| 21:37.25 | kergoth | fixed the unsatisfied dep behavior |
| 21:37.59 | kergoth | now it kills the package with the unsatisfied dep, and walks back up recursively through the tree, removing anything that references it, and anything that references what references it, etc |
| 21:38.07 | cyn | wow 1400x1050 sounds like a nice damned laptop res |
| 21:38.08 | kergoth | time to hack on other things |
| 21:38.12 | cyn | how big's the screen tho |
| 21:38.17 | cyn | don't suppose 12in or less |
| 21:38.36 | *** join/#openembedded SuKoSh| (~sukoshi@dyn-81-166-2-165.ppp.tiscali.fr) |
| 21:38.40 | kergoth | its model PP01L |
| 21:38.41 | kergoth | look it up |
| 21:38.46 | kergoth | i dont have a damn ruler handy :P |
| 21:39.05 | cyn | WELL I NEVER (met a geek who didn't know the dimensions of his display) |
| 21:39.13 | cyn | this dell or what |
| 21:39.16 | cyn | surely you can tell me that real quick |
| 21:39.21 | cyn | :P |
| 21:39.23 | cyn | ah |
| 21:39.24 | cyn | dell lat |
| 21:39.50 | kergoth | cyn: hey, if i bought it, i'd know :) |
| 21:40.32 | cyn | ah right, work supplied |
| 21:40.38 | cyn | mmm yummy 'free' laptop |
| 21:40.49 | cyn | with expectation to rip windows off it from uppers |
| 21:41.11 | kergoth | cyn: handed to me as a dual boot win2k/rh73, with vmware installed |
| 21:41.15 | kergoth | cyn: :) |
| 21:41.52 | kergoth | hehe |
| 21:41.57 | Twiun | kergoth: that's some good IT department :) |
| 21:42.00 | kergoth | shared mem is powerful, but ugly |
| 21:42.16 | Twiun | and in this context, I feel unecessary |
| 21:42.22 | cyn | wow smart enough to put vmware on there so you don't have to reboot |
| 21:42.25 | cyn | I approve |
| 21:42.45 | Twiun | actually... vmware for linux or for windows? |
| 21:42.48 | Twiun | (or both?) |
| 21:42.55 | treke | I doubt both |
| 21:42.57 | treke | too expensive |
| 21:43.08 | cyn | likely just license for linux |
| 21:43.08 | Twiun | it'd be useful though |
| 21:43.17 | kergoth | hey my mouse buttons started working again |
| 21:43.18 | kergoth | weird |
| 21:43.19 | treke | Twiun: 600 bucks worth the useful? :p |
| 21:43.32 | cyn | yeah if you wanted to stop playing a directX game to do some native linux compiling without rebooting? |
| 21:43.41 | kergoth | heheh |
| 21:43.54 | Twiun | treke: if it's somebody else's money :) |
| 21:44.22 | Twiun | I need to get my glasses fixed... I keep reading mouse==house |
| 21:44.27 | cyn | ok dells site sucks pretty big ass - does that whole 'smallbusiness' division crap, but it seems to be 14.1" |
| 21:45.07 | cyn | Status: In Transit Scheduled Delivery: Jun 17, 2003 |
| 21:45.42 | cyn | murphys law says this comes by during the 20 min window I pick my wife up, and they don't leave it at the apartment office |
| 21:46.03 | Twiun | and they don't leave a card :) |
| 21:47.38 | treke | cyn: frankly I'd prefer a 14 inch to a 15 inch |
| 21:47.53 | cyn | I'd prefer a 12 to anything larger |
| 21:48.00 | cyn | well |
| 21:48.06 | treke | too small |
| 21:48.08 | cyn | if it were a non 4x3 ratio |
| 21:48.13 | cyn | :P |
| 21:48.27 | cyn | I'd rather something more along the lines of 5x3 ratio |
| 21:50.44 | *** join/#openembedded ictyl (bradford@diploid.med.unc.edu) |
| 21:50.59 | treke | kergoth: apm or acpi? |
| 21:51.34 | kergoth | treke: was using apm, acpi atm. but acpi doesnt seem able to obtain my battery status (checked /proc/acpi), so probably going back to apm againm |
| 21:52.04 | treke | kergoth: no battery status in /proc/acpi? |
| 21:52.51 | kergoth | ~/oe/packages$ cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/state |grep voltage |
| 21:52.52 | kergoth | present voltage: 0 mV |
| 21:52.54 | kergoth | nothing useful anyway |
| 21:53.20 | tux_mike | lol |
| 21:56.42 | tux_mike | kergoth: in python are the args to functions passed by val or ref? |
| 21:56.47 | kergoth | tux_mike: everything is by ref |
| 21:56.53 | kergoth | tux_mike: so keep that in mind |
| 21:57.03 | tux_mike | good |
| 21:57.04 | kergoth | if you *need* a local copy, which is more rare than you'd think: |
| 21:57.07 | kergoth | from copy import copy |
| 21:57.14 | kergoth | newobject = copy(oldobject) |
| 21:57.26 | kergoth | its handy once in a rare while |
| 21:57.29 | tux_mike | yah |
| 21:57.36 | tux_mike | but most of it i need by ref |
| 21:57.43 | Twiun | does that do a shallow copy or deep? |
| 21:57.54 | kergoth | Twiun: shallow by default. there's a method to do a deep copy as well though |
| 21:58.14 | Twiun | kergoth: yum. I might start doing some python :) |
| 21:58.23 | kergoth | i really like it |
| 21:58.44 | kergoth | i'd still like to see most of the core oe code done as a C library for portability reasons though :) |
| 21:59.23 | Twiun | I thought python was pretty portable? |
| 22:00.03 | kergoth | well, what i mean is |
| 22:00.06 | kergoth | portable wrt tools |
| 22:00.20 | kergoth | so people can write interesting tools on top of it in other languages |
| 22:00.23 | *** join/#openembedded _fishy (~fishy@e2b213825f9a.ssl.walledcity.de) |
| 22:00.26 | kergoth | more easily |
| 22:00.48 | Twiun | ahhh |
| 22:01.48 | *** join/#openembedded Neo|Work (~neotron@207.188.30.40) |
| 22:01.48 | *** mode/#openembedded [+o Neo|Work] by ChanServ |
| 22:05.29 | _Psycho_ | bleh, i resized my linux parititon last night to make it bigger, and lilo is messed up, i loaded and mount it from the debian install cd, but i cant use lilo, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not found... hmm any quick other suggetion i could use ? |
| 22:05.41 | _Psycho_ | damn thing my buildroot is too big ! |
| 22:05.49 | _Psycho_ | was :) |
| 22:05.59 | hardwire | doooooobie |
| 22:08.23 | _Psycho_ | bah i try something hope it doesnt mess up my debian :) |
| 22:09.32 | kergoth | you havent messed up debian until you find yourself instructing apt to reinstall every package on the system |
| 22:09.35 | kergoth | i hate that |
| 22:09.48 | _Psycho_ | hehe |
| 22:09.58 | _Psycho_ | stupid thing all i want to do it type lilo somewhere =p |
| 22:10.21 | kergoth | hrm, this is annoying, the stderr and stdout output arent multiplexed properly |
| 22:10.21 | *** part/#openembedded ocr|bj (noidentd@port-212-202-34-201.reverse.qsc.de) |
| 22:10.27 | _Psycho_ | oh make a boot disk, i try that, i wonder where im gonna find a disk thought |
| 22:10.30 | kergoth | so it dumps error messages about the build, and then says hey, we started this build |
| 22:10.34 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:11.02 | _Psycho_ | bleh nm i never bought a floppy drive |
| 22:11.03 | _Psycho_ | hmm |
| 22:27.40 | _Psycho_ | god i suck i was using the wrong CD, i should write something on it, having like 6 blank cd with 6 differents version is not good ;) |
| 22:28.49 | _Psycho_ | lost 20 min ! |
| 22:28.50 | _Psycho_ | oh well |
| 22:28.59 | _Psycho_ | I have space now ;) |
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| 22:48.27 | *** join/#openembedded TheMasterMind1 (~aman@h-68-166-76-13.MCLNVA23.covad.net) |
| 22:49.09 | Twiun | TheMasterMind1: hey! |
| 22:52.26 | Twiun | TheMasterMind1: bdf stuff's pushed and I'll stick some fonts up later on |
| 22:54.38 | _Psycho_ | quick question hopefully, where is the file, that keep the modules lib dependency ? like /lib/modules/2.X.X, modprobe and stuff keep seeking in the wrong dir |
| 22:54.40 | _Psycho_ | debian |
| 22:55.16 | kergoth | modprobe looks based on uname -a |
| 22:56.27 | _Psycho_ | ok, i see what you mean, and how can i change it ? |
| 22:56.33 | _Psycho_ | (looking the command atm) |
| 22:56.37 | kergoth | uh, at kernel compile time? |
| 22:56.45 | kergoth | thats the kernel version string in your running kernel |
| 22:56.59 | kergoth | if your modules dont match your kernel, you didnt build the modules and install them when you built the kernel. |
| 22:57.02 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:57.05 | _Psycho_ | when i started the debian install to fix my lilo he changed it |
| 22:57.17 | kergoth | huh? |
| 22:57.22 | _Psycho_ | so i though just putting back my old kernel would work |
| 22:57.25 | kergoth | first, installers are inanimate |
| 22:57.28 | _Psycho_ | yeah i messsed up with the old install earlier ;) |
| 22:57.31 | kergoth | heheh |
| 22:57.32 | _Psycho_ | i guess i just recompile kernel |
| 22:57.35 | _Psycho_ | i wanted a quick fix |
| 22:57.38 | kergoth | you need both the kernel and modules |
| 22:57.42 | kergoth | they must match identically |
| 22:57.44 | _Psycho_ | i have both |
| 22:57.45 | kergoth | if they vary at all, they wont work |
| 22:57.48 | kergoth | no, you dont. |
| 22:58.02 | _Psycho_ | oh god yeah your right, i enver saw my USB mount when i booted |
| 22:58.09 | _Psycho_ | i think i go nap soon |
| 22:59.20 | _Psycho_ | gueessing the old kernel loaded, geesh last time i did the same thing it took me like 1 min to recover |
| 22:59.25 | _Psycho_ | ibot: tuesday ! |
| 22:59.26 | | Tuesday sucks, because it follows Monday (see monday), or a day in which there are no meetings |
| 23:00.07 | _Psycho_ | ok, fixed, at least i know something new |
| 23:04.47 | TheMasterMind1 | Twiun: cool |
| 23:04.49 | TheMasterMind1 | kergoth: wassup |
| 23:05.14 | *** join/#openembedded Namapoos (~soopaman@h24-66-54-32.wp.shawcable.net) |
| 23:05.33 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: nada, hacking on build stuffs still |
| 23:08.34 | Twiun | TheMasterMind1: http://adorphuye.com/~twiun/libFB/ |
| 23:08.48 | kergoth | 18:11 < CIA> openzaurus: repository=buildroot-oz user=twiun@adorphuye.com |
| 23:08.49 | kergoth | 18:11 < CIA> openzaurus: ChangeSet@1.1141 tags= moving tarball and patches to |
| 23:08.52 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:08.54 | kergoth | 18:11 < CIA> openzaurus: * packages/libfb/Makefile: moving tarball and patches |
| 23:08.57 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:09.00 | kergoth | 18:11 < CIA> openzaurus: * packages/libfb-utils/Makefile: moving tarball to dir |
| 23:09.03 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:09.06 | kergoth | CIA is cool |
| 23:09.07 | Twiun | yup, I'm in #commits too :) |
| 23:09.08 | kergoth | :) |
| 23:09.26 | kergoth | i wish we could do the messages from the server, not the client |
| 23:09.47 | ljp_laptop | email? |
| 23:10.01 | cyn | come come now kergoth you can get around a little thing like a http proxy |
| 23:10.05 | kergoth | ljp_laptop: yeah, the bk changeset logs are emailed by the client at push time |
| 23:10.21 | Twiun | right, bedtime for me... have fun :) |
| 23:10.32 | cyn | is it a true proxy or do they restrict to port 80 |
| 23:10.34 | treke | kergoth: so uhm, just go home to push |
| 23:11.00 | kergoth | cyn: there's an http proxy on 80, and an ftp proxy as well |
| 23:11.06 | *** join/#openembedded drw (~drw@ppp-67-37-140-219.dialup.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 23:11.45 | drw | hey everyone |
| 23:11.50 | ljp_laptop | hiya |
| 23:13.03 | drw | ljp_laptop: liking the OP1/2 skin |
| 23:13.07 | ljp_laptop | you in dallas yet? |
| 23:13.15 | drw | saturday |
| 23:13.42 | ljp_laptop | ahh.. ya, I need to get the video skin finished and then make a new background |
| 23:13.48 | drw | gotta go out for a few more drinks w/my friends up here before I leave |
| 23:13.56 | kergoth | good plan |
| 23:14.03 | drw | kergoth: :) |
| 23:14.20 | tux_mike | i'm always amazed at the ebay scams |
| 23:14.54 | Thelonius | wow, those latest scaps are awesome |
| 23:15.20 | drw | ljp_laptop: still waiting on the paperwork to go through? |
| 23:16.47 | ljp_laptop | yes. |
| 23:17.08 | drw | that's one plus for going to texas |
| 23:17.21 | ljp_laptop | ya ya ya |
| 23:17.26 | beattie | kergoth: I have a 2.4.18 kernel that boots and sends console output to the serial port, sort of |
| 23:17.32 | kergoth | sort of? |
| 23:17.33 | ljp_laptop | wait till I get there an scap images form the beach |
| 23:17.42 | ljp_laptop | from even |
| 23:17.59 | _Psycho_ | libatk supposed to build with gcc 3.2 ? |
| 23:18.44 | beattie | well I just get the uncompressing and done booting messages, but it;s a start |
| 23:19.06 | kergoth | ah |
| 23:20.09 | Thelonius | kergoth, is there a way i can figure out a way to get my non-ipaq machine to boot? |
| 23:20.21 | kergoth | er? |
| 23:20.48 | _Psycho_ | god that guys sound like me when i try to explain something in english =p |
| 23:21.09 | kergoth | so your toaster doesnt boot? |
| 23:21.13 | kergoth | i'm not a fucking psychic man |
| 23:21.18 | kergoth | try giving me some actual information |
| 23:21.32 | kergoth | did it boot before? what did it boot? why isnt it booting? what IS IT? |
| 23:21.38 | ljp_laptop | laptop |
| 23:22.10 | _Psycho_ | hey btw i just bought that webcam, have to install that later :) |
| 23:22.20 | _Psycho_ | Logitech quickmessager thingie ! |
| 23:22.59 | Thelonius | kergoth, i am trying to find bootloader information |
| 23:23.03 | _Psycho_ | next time i got some error, i think i will actually show it on the web =p |
| 23:23.17 | _Psycho_ | tried ibot ? |
| 23:23.19 | Thelonius | but I was under the impression that the same processor architecture would have similar boot procedures |
| 23:23.20 | _Psycho_ | ibot: bootloader |
| 23:23.21 | | See bootldr |
| 23:23.27 | _Psycho_ | ibot: bootldr |
| 23:23.28 | | it has been said that bootldr is recommended, stable bootldr is 2.18.54, found at http://www.handhelds.org/feeds/bootldr or at http://cvs.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/bootldr for cvsweb access; more info (options, etc.) can be found at http://www.handhelds.org/handhelds-faq/bootldr.html |
| 23:23.30 | kergoth | Thelonius: its arm. www.arm.linux.org.uk. |
| 23:23.33 | Thelonius | _Psycho_, i have an URThere @migo |
| 23:23.33 | kergoth | Thelonius: rtfm |
| 23:23.41 | kergoth | good docs on linux arm booting there |
| 23:23.48 | Thelonius | alrite |
| 23:30.09 | *** join/#openembedded ciaolinux (~paolo@MSTU83.CIMS.NYU.EDU) |
| 23:32.53 | tux_mike | i wonder if there's a berkleyDB interface for python |
| 23:34.47 | kergoth | i'm sure there is |
| 23:35.31 | tux_mike | hrm... not in the official python stuffs |
| 23:36.09 | kergoth | wonder how i calculate an md5 sum from python |
| 23:36.13 | *** join/#openembedded ciaolinux (~paolo@MSTU83.CIMS.NYU.EDU) |
| 23:36.16 | kergoth | maybe theres an openssl interface or something |
| 23:36.36 | tux_mike | http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-md5.html |
| 23:36.42 | kergoth | ah |
| 23:36.44 | *** join/#openembedded ciaolinux (~paolo@MSTU83.CIMS.NYU.EDU) |
| 23:36.44 | kergoth | heheh |
| 23:36.56 | tux_mike | good thing i have the docs open :) |
| 23:37.21 | tux_mike | kergoth: you play around with any hello world type PyQT apps? |
| 23:37.48 | kergoth | tux_mike: nah pyqt's still on my todo |
| 23:38.14 | kergoth | tux_mike: man, i lost my archive of concept code |
| 23:38.25 | kergoth | tux_mike: \from when i was learning c and perl.. all the old bits of code for doing useful things |
| 23:38.29 | kergoth | :\ |
| 23:38.38 | tux_mike | well, if i ever get this parser working... that's prolly the step after i make my own file format. |
| 23:38.45 | kergoth | cool |
| 23:39.15 | kergoth | I'm adding the first steps to teach our new buildsystem to automatically rerun tasks based on an md5sum of metadata |
| 23:39.26 | kergoth | so if you change the source url var, it'll redownload and rerun the build |
| 23:39.32 | kergoth | hrmmm |
| 23:40.28 | ljp_laptop | thats inconceivable! |
| 23:40.33 | tux_mike | i really hope i'm using the dom parser right |
| 23:40.52 | kergoth | only complex part is making it run the 'undo' tasks for every dependent task of a given task |
| 23:41.28 | tux_mike | so OE is all python based? |
| 23:42.24 | ljp_laptop | should be |
| 23:42.33 | ljp_laptop | helix build is |
| 23:42.33 | kergoth | tux_mike: the oe build infrastructure is |
| 23:42.41 | tux_mike | cool |
| 23:42.58 | tux_mike | man, this dom based parser is a LOT neater than the expat one |
| 23:43.08 | kergoth | tux_mike: its completely extensible. any package .oe file can use either blocks of shell code or blocks of python code to do the work |
| 23:43.30 | tux_mike | cool |
| 23:45.27 | tux_mike | hrm... another makes my list |
| 23:46.08 | *** join/#openembedded bisho (~bisho@136.Red-213-97-191.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 23:46.48 | tux_mike | http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030617/ap_on_hi_te/downloading_music um what the fuck ever happened to DUE PROCESS! |
| 23:51.34 | *** join/#openembedded bipolar (~bflong@00045ADBD3EC.msns.flt.ptd.net) |
