| 00:01.40 | beattie | any body know if Sharp has released the source to the 2.4.18 kernel |
| 00:06.16 | ljp_laptop | not yet' |
| 00:06.32 | ljp_laptop | bipolar: kergoth is driving to texas |
| 00:07.44 | beattie | hmmmm, still can't get serial console to work, I can turn off the regular console :( |
| 00:08.25 | bipolar | ljp_laptop: heh... do we have a moving map showing his progress? :p |
| 00:10.23 | ljp_laptop | hahaha. not that I know |
| 00:10.30 | ljp_laptop | he needs a gps device |
| 00:11.04 | bipolar | I'm contemplating if I want to buy a c760 or a small laptop... heh |
| 00:12.07 | ljp_laptop | I bought a recertified thinkpad t20 for 675 |
| 00:12.22 | bipolar | damn |
| 00:12.56 | ljp_laptop | tigerdirect.com |
| 00:12.59 | bipolar | I wish the Z c760 was cheaper... it's about that much IIRC |
| 00:15.42 | bipolar | the only problem with the thinkpads is that I hate that little red button they use for the mouse. |
| 00:16.21 | icefox | Anyone here use flac? |
| 00:17.26 | ljp_laptop | ya, nipple mouse |
| 00:18.18 | bipolar | ljp_laptop: it's not intuitive enough to call a nipple.... :) |
| 00:19.28 | Neo|Work | ljp_laptop: nah, it's the "clitoris" rather. :) |
| 00:24.15 | beattie | hmmm have to tryt my tounge on it, see if my lapto responds any better |
| 00:31.08 | ljp_laptop | poor chocolate on it, it will taste better |
| 00:47.59 | andersee | I had to give the Z 5000D back to BZFlag when he moved |
| 00:56.00 | TimRiker | ~spell pout |
| 00:56.00 | | 'pout' may be spelled correctly |
| 00:56.28 | ljp_laptop | hehehe |
| 00:56.43 | TimRiker | andersee: you getting a $199 recert 5500? or a $633 new C760? |
| 00:57.07 | TimRiker | ljp_laptop: when are you moving? still no visa? |
| 00:57.31 | ljp_laptop | waiting... waiting... waiting... |
| 00:57.47 | ljp_laptop | warwick said he's seen it take 2 weeks, and he's seen it take 16 weeks |
| 00:57.57 | TimRiker | hehe. and to think you could be in dallas working now. ;-) well, perhaps not now, I should go home. |
| 00:58.56 | ljp_laptop | hehe. oh well. |
| 00:59.05 | chouimat | hi ljp tim |
| 00:59.40 | ljp_laptop | well, I believe there is a spot on a local beach just waiting for my ass |
| 01:00.47 | andersee | TimRiker: My wife would kill me for spending $633 on a toy. So I'll be sticking with a 5500, that my days may be long upon the earth... :-) |
| 01:06.12 | TimRiker | andersee: hehe. but what if it's a critial tool for your business? ;-) |
| 01:06.20 | TimRiker | er critical. |
| 01:06.29 | TimRiker | ~spell critial |
| 01:06.30 | | possible spellings for critial: crucial critical Croatia cranial crucially Cristal Croatian ritual Cristian criminal corral curtail coital Coral coral critic Gratia cortical racial Gretal critically Crayola crayola Caril Corilla Croatia's crawl crustal initial trivial |
| 01:06.54 | TimRiker | not to mention a criminal tool. |
| 01:07.11 | TimRiker | though ljp_laptop might want a crayola tool. |
| 01:08.34 | TimRiker | icefox: we can give you flak, would that help? |
| 01:08.39 | TimRiker | ~flak |
| 01:08.46 | andersee | TimRiker: Good point. It's certainly a valid a business expense. How else could I read the lkml while sitting on the john? |
| 01:08.57 | TimRiker | exactly! ;-) |
| 01:09.34 | TimRiker | that 640x480 screen should suffice. and a web browser gets you /. and linuxdevices and ... |
| 01:10.03 | ljp_laptop | trolltech |
| 01:10.11 | TimRiker | 4 times thre real estate of the 5500. |
| 01:10.17 | TimRiker | ~4 * 199 |
| 01:10.17 | | 796 |
| 01:10.28 | TimRiker | for less that 4 times the price. ;-) |
| 01:10.33 | TimRiker | s/that/than/ |
| 01:10.56 | chouimat | but 1000CAD is to expensive for me |
| 01:11.26 | andersee | Yeah, for $633, I could buy a laptop with 1024x768 and a 20 GB drive... |
| 01:11.29 | TimRiker | ~change 633 usd to cad |
| 01:12.04 | TimRiker | andersee: but would it fit in your pocket? ;-) |
| 01:13.55 | _Psycho`bbl | mine cost me 920$ in canada, with bank wire fee and stuff (c700) |
| 01:14.09 | _Psycho`bbl | with shipping and everything |
| 01:15.31 | TimRiker | _Psycho`bbl: dynamism? |
| 01:15.58 | _Psycho`bbl | conics |
| 01:16.06 | _Psycho`bbl | was like 570$ US ? forgot |
| 01:16.18 | _Psycho`bbl | but with all the stuff etc, i think my bank had like a 25$ fee too |
| 01:16.35 | TimRiker | ah. brando has them for $500, C750 for $533 and C760 for $633 once he can get them. |
| 01:16.49 | _Psycho`bbl | brando ? |
| 01:16.58 | _Psycho`bbl | dynamism guys ? |
| 01:17.10 | TimRiker | ~dynamism |
| 01:17.16 | _Psycho`bbl | yeah |
| 01:17.25 | _Psycho`bbl | i might change my c700, not sure, its still so great |
| 01:17.56 | TimRiker | dynamism is a site that sells english Sharp Zaurii C700's http://www.dynamism.com/zaurus/ |
| 01:18.07 | _Psycho`bbl | yeah i know =p |
| 01:18.07 | TimRiker | ibot:dynamism is a site that sells english Sharp Zaurii C700's http://www.dynamism.com/zaurus/ |
| 01:18.08 | | okay, TimRiker |
| 01:18.11 | _Psycho`bbl | of course |
| 01:18.17 | _Psycho`bbl | oh was for ibot |
| 01:18.20 | _Psycho`bbl | :) |
| 01:18.30 | TimRiker | yeah. I'm missing the brando link... |
| 01:20.44 | TimRiker | ~brando is a site that sells Sharp Zaurii and other electronics markets exported to the US http://shop.brando.com.hk/ or mailto:brando@brando.com.hk |
| 01:20.44 | | okay, TimRiker |
| 01:21.06 | TimRiker | found it. ;-) |
| 01:21.15 | _Psycho`bbl | oh interesting |
| 01:21.27 | chouimat|busy | TimRiker: congrats |
| 01:21.44 | TimRiker | brando does not change the roms or anything, but if you are going to run OZ anyway, that's fine. ;-) |
| 01:22.23 | chouimat|busy | wow! 21h21 and I didn't eat .... bbl |
| 01:22.36 | _Psycho`bbl | just accesories ? |
| 01:22.41 | TimRiker | ~brando is also C700 $500, C750 $533, C760 $633 USD |
| 01:22.41 | | TimRiker: okay |
| 01:22.52 | TimRiker | _Psycho`bbl: email for zaurii orders. |
| 01:23.07 | TimRiker | ~brando is also use email for zaurus orders |
| 01:23.08 | | okay, TimRiker |
| 01:23.14 | _Psycho`bbl | i see |
| 01:23.28 | _Psycho`bbl | ibot: brando ! |
| 01:23.32 | | i guess brando is a site that sells Sharp Zaurii and other electronics markets exported to the US http://shop.brando.com.hk/ or mailto:brando@brando.com.hk. C700 $500, C750 $533, C760 $633 USD, or use email for zaurus orders |
| 01:24.04 | _Psycho`bbl | anyway, im gonna stick for my c700 for a while i think ;) |
| 01:24.21 | _Psycho`bbl | talking of OZ,anyone fixed the libpng3 in the buildroot ? |
| 01:24.43 | TimRiker | ~brando is sells/exports the Sharp Zaurus and other electronics http://shop.brando.com.hk/ or mailto:brando@brando.com.hk. C700 $500, C750 $533, C760 $633 USD, use email for zaurus orders |
| 01:24.43 | | ...but brando is already something else... |
| 01:24.53 | TimRiker | ibot: no, brando is sells/exports the Sharp Zaurus and other electronics http://shop.brando.com.hk/ or mailto:brando@brando.com.hk. C700 $500, C750 $533, C760 $633 USD, use email for zaurus orders |
| 01:24.54 | | okay, TimRiker |
| 01:25.07 | _Psycho`bbl | i like ibot |
| 01:25.10 | _Psycho`bbl | nice thing |
| 01:25.19 | ljp_laptop | ibot is evil |
| 01:25.19 | | ljp_laptop: I give up, what is it? |
| 01:25.22 | TimRiker | ~who's your daddy? |
| 01:25.23 | | YOU are, Mr Sexy Pants! |
| 01:25.59 | TimRiker | ~die die die |
| 01:26.03 | TimRiker | heh |
| 01:26.06 | TimRiker | ~die |
| 01:26.06 | | ACTION takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless. |
| 01:26.33 | TimRiker | ~lart ljp_laptop |
| 01:27.42 | _Psycho`bbl | ~girl |
| 01:27.42 | | "if you dont believe in the existance of evil, you have a lot to learn" |
| 01:27.53 | _Psycho`bbl | like that one ;) |
| 01:28.51 | _Psycho`bbl | ~girls |
| 01:28.52 | | the root of all evil |
| 01:31.18 | _Psycho`bbl | bbl, have to get ready to go out. |
| 01:36.03 | TimRiker | ~owner |
| 01:36.04 | | hmm... owner is BZFlag |
| 01:36.15 | TimRiker | ~owner is also TimRiker |
| 01:36.16 | | TimRiker: okay |
| 01:37.40 | ljp_laptop | actually, texas has some nice beaches. too bad TI isnt located near those |
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| 03:13.10 | bipolar | ibot: Getting any? |
| 03:13.10 | | I get my bits polished every night by a cron job, bipolar |
| 03:14.16 | chouimat|busy | ibot: ? |
| 03:14.16 | | chouimat|busy: have you tried http://www.tldp.org/ ? |
| 03:14.31 | chouimat|busy | ibot beer |
| 03:14.31 | | rumour has it, beer is ummm, ummm good! |
| 03:14.36 | ljp_laptop | heheh thats funny |
| 03:14.43 | ljp_laptop | cron job |
| 03:15.03 | chouimat|busy | ljp_laptop: :) |
| 03:15.42 | chouimat|Zzzz | nigh |
| 03:17.11 | ljp_laptop | bye |
| 03:18.21 | bipolar | man.... that c760 looks so sweet... |
| 03:18.31 | bipolar | 128MB of flash... wow |
| 03:19.43 | chouimat|Zzzz | ljp_laptop: we weree friday today? |
| 03:22.38 | ljp_laptop | whha? |
| 03:28.01 | bipolar | any word from kergoth on his progress to TX? |
| 03:30.34 | ljp_laptop | nope |
| 03:31.44 | bipolar | oh well. Time for bed anyway. :) |
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| 04:32.14 | mithro | kergoth: you alive at the moment and have a second to help me with build root? |
| 04:33.11 | mithro | treke|home: why? |
| 04:33.20 | treke|home | mithro: he's busy packing |
| 04:34.11 | ljp_laptop | or driving |
| 04:37.32 | mithro | ahh... how come he's connected to the channel :) that would be one cool wireless connection if he was driving... |
| 04:37.43 | mithro | treke|home: maybe you can help me :) |
| 04:37.48 | treke|home | mithro: nope |
| 04:38.39 | mithro | actually it's not a problem with build root it's a problem with glibc-2.2.4 |
| 04:40.07 | mithro | it dies when it gets to the install process |
| 04:40.09 | mithro | * Libc: (libc). C library. |
| 04:40.10 | mithro | install-info: replacing existing dir entry for `libc' |
| 04:40.10 | mithro | make[4]: *** [install] Error 139 |
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| 04:49.21 | mithro | any ideas? |
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| 06:28.10 | treke|home | bleh damn debian |
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| 10:00.03 | schurig | moin! |
| 10:01.22 | Twiun | yo |
| 10:03.00 | schurig | Twiun: morning! |
| 10:03.10 | schurig | mickeyl: morning! |
| 10:03.30 | schurig | just set up my own wiki on my box http://schurig.homelinux.net |
| 10:03.37 | Twiun | woohoo! my Z is finally responding to pings again |
| 10:04.08 | schurig | Twiun: when I smash my Ramses against the wall, it sounds more like "wham" and not like "ping" ... |
| 10:04.11 | Twiun | schurig: you're sure you want your address on a searchable page? |
| 10:04.15 | Twiun | schurig: lol |
| 10:04.19 | mickeyl | morning schurig, Twiun and all |
| 10:04.25 | mickeyl | lol |
| 10:04.49 | schurig | Twiun: why not? That way I can test if my firewall rules are ok :-) |
| 10:05.08 | Twiun | schurig: I was thinking of your postal address mainly - I post my email address up too :) |
| 10:06.06 | schurig | On my old home page I also had my postal address. And that was never a problem. I'd actually find it better if the spammers would send me postal (stamped and all) mail instead of e-mail ... |
| 10:06.26 | mickeyl | hehe, yeah |
| 10:08.28 | Twiun | hrm. wtf does /dev/tty0 output to my ssh connection?? |
| 10:08.53 | mickeyl | try /dev/tty1 |
| 10:09.05 | Twiun | yeah, just did |
| 10:09.07 | Twiun | that worked |
| 10:09.11 | Twiun | but... why? |
| 10:09.17 | mickeyl | hehe no idea.... |
| 10:09.24 | Twiun | tty0 used to be the Z's screen |
| 10:09.30 | mickeyl | never looked in to this serial stuff |
| 10:13.19 | Twiun | I'd love a standard boot loader menu on the Z |
| 10:13.29 | Twiun | hate having to reflash because init crapped on me |
| 10:15.53 | mickeyl | we need a better bootloader |
| 10:16.23 | mickeyl | who volunteers ? |
| 10:16.58 | Twiun | what do we need to know? |
| 10:17.01 | Twiun | ARM assembly? |
| 10:17.06 | schurig | Twiun: yes |
| 10:17.06 | Twiun | what else? |
| 10:17.11 | schurig | Twiun: at least a little bit |
| 10:17.22 | zecke | Twiun: JTAG Controller to be on the safe side |
| 10:17.37 | mickeyl | only a little bit. thing is not to write a new bootloader but to port one of the existing bootloaders. |
| 10:17.38 | schurig | Twiun: if you want a bootloader with a menu, you'd also need to have some idea on the LCD controller in the SA1110 |
| 10:17.48 | zecke | Twiun: knowledge of the GPIO settings... |
| 10:17.49 | mickeyl | bootldr can handle this. |
| 10:17.59 | schurig | zecke: hi! Did you read my e-mail that I sent to your handhelds.org e-mail address? |
| 10:18.08 | zecke | schurig: yupp thanks |
| 10:18.19 | zecke | schurig: this would be privately and not by university |
| 10:18.26 | zecke | schurig: just to orientate myself |
| 10:18.42 | schurig | but most of the stuff for a bootloader can be copied, there are so many existing bootloader available |
| 10:18.54 | zecke | schurig: what you're doing sounds interesting |
| 10:18.59 | schurig | zecke: if you're willing to move you'd even get paid |
| 10:19.14 | zecke | Twiun: blob and crl bootldr are very good and clean boot loaders |
| 10:19.14 | schurig | (normal Internships aren't normally not paid good) |
| 10:19.33 | schurig | zecke: I don't find the crl bootldr a "very clean" one |
| 10:19.53 | Twiun | zecke: all I need to do now is learn ARM assembly (I know a little x86) and get hold of a JTAG controller... oh and the docs for the chips |
| 10:19.53 | zecke | schurig: oh at least it is easy to port it |
| 10:19.54 | mickeyl | zecke: hey, and we even could meet once in a while :-D |
| 10:20.10 | zecke | ahhh |
| 10:20.15 | zecke | mickeyl: ;) |
| 10:20.28 | schurig | and zecke would have access to a fast JTAG device :-) |
| 10:20.33 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 10:21.54 | zecke | Twiun: ARM assembly is fun. I started to learn it but then got sick... |
| 10:22.23 | schurig | zecke: ARM assembly is not THAT bad ... |
| 10:22.37 | schurig | (sorry if this is not ok to you, I know about your health problems) |
| 10:23.07 | zecke | schurig: it is. I've one operation ahead and then I should be 100% restored :) |
| 10:23.49 | schurig | Twiun: the arm assembly language is actually quite orthogonal and logical. |
| 10:24.24 | schurig | Twiun: and despite the fact that the ARM is dubbed as RISC, it's not that elaborate, they have CISC-like stuff in, too |
| 10:24.40 | Twiun | schurig: I suppose I might as well have a quick look at the existing bootloaders :) |
| 10:24.56 | schurig | Twiun: I'd start with blob. |
| 10:25.00 | mickeyl | Twiun: take a look at blob first |
| 10:25.04 | Twiun | will do |
| 10:25.04 | mickeyl | t'is the smallest |
| 10:25.11 | schurig | and easy to read |
| 10:25.26 | schurig | crl bootloader can do more, but is not as easy to read |
| 10:25.31 | mickeyl | schurig: do you (or someone else) now something about power management in general ? I'm having problems on SIMpad because it lacks an apm implementation |
| 10:25.34 | schurig | u-boot is in the middle |
| 10:25.58 | schurig | RedBoot from eCos is the bootloader that can do everything. Very cleverly designed. But the learning curve is steep |
| 10:26.22 | zecke | ok I'll move myself into the sun ;) |
| 10:26.23 | zecke | cya |
| 10:26.28 | Twiun | lol |
| 10:26.30 | Twiun | cya zecke |
| 10:26.33 | schurig | mickeyl: the APM itself doesn't do any "power management". It just is an interface to learn how good or bad the battery is and to suspend the box |
| 10:26.46 | mickeyl | schurig: question is: must i manually suspend subsystems before doing the echo >/proc/sys/pm/suspend or will something magically take care of? |
| 10:26.59 | mickeyl | the ipaq has pm-helpers which do this |
| 10:27.04 | mickeyl | the simpad not, because it doesn't have apm |
| 10:27.06 | schurig | mickeyl: power-management is more, e.g. if you drop the VCC power to your chips while in suspend (I do on the Ramses) then you have to re-program the chips at resume time |
| 10:27.38 | mickeyl | schurig: yeah, as i said, the echo >/proc/pm stuff works good - but my subsystems don't come up again, e.g. cardctl, usbf, etc. |
| 10:27.42 | mickeyl | network |
| 10:28.01 | schurig | mickeyl: you could add pm. Then you can make the kernel call apm-proxy for you and script in /etc/apm/suspend.d and /etc/apm/resume.d would get called by the kernel |
| 10:28.57 | schurig | I found some patch for this somewhere (maybe you google for it). I'm using this patch for ramses |
| 10:29.25 | schurig | I'll also patch apmd so that it detects idle time and will suspend the system after X minutes (configurable) |
| 10:29.37 | schurig | right now I can only suspend via the echo or a key on my keyboard |
| 10:29.40 | mickeyl | schurig: i will leave that for opie |
| 10:30.18 | mickeyl | schurig: so basically if i already have a working proc/pm/ i just need to get apm-proxy ? |
| 10:30.32 | mickeyl | and how do i make this get called by the kernel? |
| 10:30.34 | schurig | mickeyl: the apm patch is from Jamey Hicks (the ipaq guy), search for "bios-less APM driver for ARM Linux" in the ipaq patches and you'll find it |
| 10:30.47 | Twiun | should I look at the latest version of blob, or the latest stable release? |
| 10:30.57 | mickeyl | schurig: i hope it is not an intrusive or big patch |
| 10:31.02 | schurig | the patch I mentioned also creates the /proc/apm entry which is needed by apmd |
| 10:31.17 | schurig | mickeyl: 1200 lines |
| 10:31.18 | mickeyl | that sounds intrusive but i really like to check if that could apply on the simpad |
| 10:31.21 | mickeyl | 1200lines |
| 10:31.22 | mickeyl | doh |
| 10:31.24 | schurig | but not that intrusive |
| 10:31.35 | mickeyl | k - part of hh8 i suppose? |
| 10:31.43 | schurig | it patches just some files |
| 10:31.51 | schurig | mickeyl: no idea |
| 10:32.20 | mickeyl | okay, will look for it. its just that the hh patches are _very_ big .... will take me some time to figure out only to rip apart the apm stuff |
| 10:32.23 | schurig | Twiun: go for the latest version |
| 10:33.02 | schurig | mickeyl: you don't need ALL of those HH patches. Just the apm stuff, e.g. the patch to apm.c, apm_bios.h, pm-devices.h etc |
| 10:33.18 | mickeyl | hehe, exactly the 'etc.' is what I'm afraid of :)) |
| 10:33.23 | schurig | and of course the one to the proper Config.in file so that you actually can select APM |
| 10:33.45 | Twiun | question now is - if I get serious with this dev... who should I talk to to get the NDA for the JTAG cruft? Sharp UK? |
| 10:33.51 | schurig | mickeyl: you'll get used to kernel stuff after some time. I'd recommend "Linux Device Drivers" and "The Linux Kernel" from O'Reilly :-) |
| 10:34.12 | mickeyl | schurig: yeah, i believe that. the thing is.... i don't want to get used to kernel stuff.... i'm much more capable in user land |
| 10:34.26 | mickeyl | guten |
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| 10:59.33 | mickeyl | schurig: do you know if there is a place on handhelds.org where i can get the handhelds-patches to the linux kernel as a patch file or must i use the cvs kernel and diff it back to rmk version?` |
| 11:00.08 | schurig | mickeyl: no. You have to checkout the kernel and do a diff -urN against the linux-2.4.x-rmkY |
| 11:00.20 | mickeyl | mmhhh ok |
| 11:01.12 | mickeyl | at least they have tagged there kernel tree |
| 11:08.35 | zecke | mickeyl: ftp |
| 11:11.52 | mickeyl | where there? |
| 11:14.01 | mickeyl | aaah |
| 11:14.29 | mickeyl | ftp.handhelds.org:/linux/kernel |
| 11:15.02 | mickeyl | no patches against rmk7 though |
| 11:15.05 | mickeyl | only against rmk7 |
| 11:15.07 | mickeyl | rmk6 |
| 11:15.16 | mickeyl | well... won't make such a difference hopefully |
| 11:18.46 | mickeyl | schurig: which graphics subsystem does ramses have? |
| 11:18.52 | mickeyl | e.g. mq200 |
| 11:18.53 | mickeyl | ? |
| 11:29.41 | mickeyl | schrurig: ah that hh12 patch has 591847 lines *cough* I really doubt I can extract the apm implementation out of this mess |
| 11:39.15 | *** join/#openembedded pb_ (~pb@pc2-cmbg4-3-cust239.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:40.24 | mickeyl | schurig: also, i cannot just rip out the apm implementation, i would have to implement the device dependent battery reading functions for SIMpad. that's definitly out of my scope. i want to port opie, not a kernel :) |
| 11:43.11 | *** part/#openembedded gruemelmonster (~Jojo@pD9E500BE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:07.52 | *** join/#openembedded ljp_laptop (~ljp@206.168.3.155) |
| 12:08.41 | Twiun | hey ljp |
| 12:08.56 | ljp_laptop | hi |
| 12:09.56 | mickeyl | yo ljp |
| 12:11.39 | ljp_laptop | what up? |
| 12:13.15 | mickeyl | nothing special. i had a look @ the sound stuff in qt/e. i think we could use this as a basis for a lightweight dedicated opie soundserver. |
| 12:14.15 | ljp_laptop | hmm interesting |
| 12:14.44 | mickeyl | yeah there is a stub for a soundserver but apparently it is not in use |
| 12:15.37 | ljp_laptop | esd |
| 12:15.41 | ljp_laptop | I think |
| 12:16.37 | mickeyl | hmm... maybe there is also a complete soundserver integrated - didn't look completely through. maybe we should try to just port esd if its lightweight enough |
| 12:16.53 | yeiazel | esd sucks |
| 12:16.59 | mickeyl | why |
| 12:17.10 | ljp_laptop | most sound servers suck. jack doesnt |
| 12:17.32 | yeiazel | I'm using it between my laptop and my server (which has a sblive); it takes too much cpu |
| 12:17.52 | yeiazel | and the protocol seems ugly |
| 12:18.13 | yeiazel | it's not secure |
| 12:18.26 | yeiazel | and the sound data is not and cannot be compressed |
| 12:18.45 | scanline | the protocol is ugly :) |
| 12:18.51 | yeiazel | scanline: :) |
| 12:18.58 | scanline | and esd has some pretty mad latency issues |
| 12:19.13 | ljp_laptop | same with arts |
| 12:19.15 | scanline | esd's one strong point is that it's really simple |
| 12:19.22 | mickeyl | well we're not talking about pro audio here, we're talking bout a pda |
| 12:19.35 | ljp_laptop | *gasp*! |
| 12:19.48 | ljp_laptop | yes.. but what if... ;) |
| 12:19.53 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 12:19.54 | mickeyl | i know |
| 12:19.57 | yeiazel | mickeyl: do you think an ugly protocol, with something that takes sooo much cpu and network, would fit a pda ? |
| 12:20.08 | scanline | mickeyl: pro audio or not, you'll care if it takes 0.5 second for a game sound effect to happen |
| 12:20.10 | ljp_laptop | you heard of pdaudio? |
| 12:20.16 | mickeyl | no - i was talking bout the security and latency issue which is not important for a pda |
| 12:20.27 | mickeyl | ljp_laptop: yes |
| 12:20.57 | mickeyl | so then we need to write our own. |
| 12:21.05 | mickeyl | minimal features minimal cpu usage |
| 12:21.07 | ljp_laptop | or use jack |
| 12:21.09 | ljp_laptop | hehehe |
| 12:21.17 | mickeyl | jack jack jack... heared that before... |
| 12:21.37 | ljp_laptop | hahaa. I think apps need to be jackified, though |
| 12:22.04 | mickeyl | no problem. apps need to be rewritten not to use the /dev/dsp directly anyway - no matter which sound server we settle on |
| 12:22.30 | mickeyl | ODevice::playSound( xxx ) will connect to the soundserver. i |
| 12:22.40 | ljp_laptop | well, certain apps we wont have control over |
| 12:23.00 | mickeyl | i have the idea of a predefined sound repository and the possibility to shut it down for certain apps, e.g. opie-mediaplayer which needs direct control |
| 12:23.23 | mickeyl | or xmms or whatever |
| 12:23.25 | mickeyl | even games maybe |
| 12:23.45 | mickeyl | but all the rest of applications could make use of a sound api |
| 12:23.50 | scanline | mickeyl: glutton for pain, are we now? :) |
| 12:24.09 | ljp_laptop | hehe |
| 12:24.51 | yeiazel | ermmmm |
| 12:24.51 | mickeyl | not an option. kergoth decided that to belong to userland |
| 12:25.14 | yeiazel | scanline: emu10k1 does that because the chip has multiple hardware channels |
| 12:25.22 | yeiazel | scanline: mixing is hardware, not software |
| 12:25.22 | scanline | it's something that should go in userland... but I don't think there's a way to do it currently without a lot of latency problems |
| 12:25.34 | scanline | yeiazel: I know, but it works nicely |
| 12:25.51 | yeiazel | sure it works, but you can't do that with all audio chips |
| 12:25.56 | scanline | avoids all the headaches that being forced to use a sound server causes |
| 12:25.59 | mickeyl | yeaizel: actually mixing _is_ software on PDA devices :-D |
| 12:26.16 | mickeyl | scanline: i like the idea myself - but kergoth decides on kernel stuff. |
| 12:26.21 | yeiazel | mickeyl: scanline was talking about emu10k1, I react about emu10k1 |
| 12:26.27 | mickeyl | k |
| 12:26.43 | mickeyl | only read the second part :) |
| 12:26.47 | yeiazel | :) |
| 12:26.50 | ljp_laptop | mixing should be user |
| 12:26.56 | scanline | yeiazel: I was talking about the interface, hardware mixing is just an implementation detail |
| 12:27.10 | yeiazel | scanline: yes... |
| 12:27.11 | mickeyl | hehe "... is just an implementation detail" |
| 12:27.15 | ljp_laptop | unless it has hardware |
| 12:27.17 | mickeyl | well how often did i hear that |
| 12:27.43 | yeiazel | using a soundserver with a really low nice level, like -15 or so wouldn't reduce the latency ? |
| 12:30.22 | pb_ | yeah. should also teach the kernel to DMA directly from the sound server's mixing buffers, rather than needing to bounce the data through kernel memory. |
| 12:31.59 | mickeyl | pb_: hmm.... now its getting complicated. we don't want to patch the sound drivers |
| 12:32.31 | pb_ | if you want low latency, patching the drivers may be your only option. |
| 12:33.24 | mickeyl | typical PDA stuff doesn't need low latency. i don't care about my alarm sound being delivered 10 or 50 ms later than scheduled. |
| 12:33.36 | yeiazel | and doom sounds !? |
| 12:33.54 | mickeyl | i already said that games will continue to use /dev/dsp directly. |
| 12:33.58 | yeiazel | oh |
| 12:33.59 | Twiun | what's the smallest delay that we can perceive? |
| 12:34.00 | yeiazel | ok :) |
| 12:34.04 | mickeyl | everything else doesn't make sense IMHO |
| 12:34.11 | mickeyl | Twiun: good musicians like 5 ms |
| 12:34.14 | pb_ | Twiun: depends on the application. for telephony, delay can be critical. |
| 12:34.23 | mickeyl | Twiun: bad musicians like 50 ms |
| 12:34.24 | mickeyl | haha |
| 12:34.35 | mickeyl | ljp_laptop: what delay can you perceive? |
| 12:34.51 | mickeyl | ljp ==> musician |
| 12:36.49 | Twiun | mickeyl: before I look too much into blob, I'll wait to ask kergoth to see if anyone else is doing this type of stuff |
| 12:37.11 | mickeyl | Twiun: feel free, but I'm pretty sure noone else is doing this |
| 12:37.16 | ljp_laptop | depends on the situation |
| 12:37.24 | mickeyl | keygoth might appear tonite hopefully |
| 12:38.18 | Twiun | mickeyl: aye - I don't want to start another project when I'm juggling so many already :) |
| 12:38.23 | ljp_laptop | perceiving latency is different. |
| 12:39.12 | mickeyl | Twiun: sure. did you get a chance for the banner message yet? |
| 12:39.28 | Twiun | mickeyl: working on it. but it looks butt-ugly |
| 12:39.40 | Twiun | mickeyl: I'm thinking a bitmap or a larger font might be better |
| 12:41.21 | mickeyl | Twiun: yeah! bitmap and larger found would be pretty spiffy, e.g. on devices where the boot is slower than on the Z! |
| 12:41.26 | mickeyl | s/found/font |
| 12:41.34 | mickeyl | Twiun: i have such a device :) |
| 12:41.40 | Twiun | mickeyl: hehe, lol |
| 12:41.45 | mickeyl | Twiun: takes two or three minutes to boot into opie |
| 12:41.51 | Twiun | mickeyl: yikes |
| 12:42.06 | Twiun | mickeyl: would XIP help? |
| 12:42.31 | mickeyl | Twiun: no, it might be a kernel / filesystem issue but as long as it is that way i'd be happy for a splash screen + msg |
| 12:46.41 | mickeyl | anyone familiar with ucb1x00 or sa1100 switches? |
| 12:53.12 | killefiz | mickeyl: any idea on what is wrong when the opie screen is shown upside down? |
| 12:53.33 | mickeyl | killefiz: do you mean upside down or 90 degree rotated? |
| 12:53.40 | mickeyl | killefiz: are you referring to the simpad image ? |
| 12:53.47 | killefiz | mickeyl: no - i mean upside down - yes simpad |
| 12:53.51 | mickeyl | killefiz: don't worry - this is already fixed in cvs |
| 12:53.58 | mickeyl | you can't fix it yourself though |
| 12:54.03 | mickeyl | new image |
| 12:54.03 | mickeyl | :) |
| 12:54.16 | killefiz | what part was the error in? |
| 12:54.22 | mickeyl | libopie1 |
| 12:54.23 | killefiz | btw: wlan works fine for me now |
| 12:54.35 | mickeyl | how bout suspend/resume for ya? |
| 12:54.49 | killefiz | hangs on resume |
| 12:54.52 | mickeyl | killefiz: i will soon provide a feed for the simpad - then you can just correct individual packages |
| 12:55.15 | mickeyl | killefiz: worked here today for the first time. |
| 12:55.29 | mickeyl | but afaik the image you have doesn't have the pcmcia patch in it. mine has. |
| 12:55.30 | killefiz | don't worry - i can build a fresh libopie1 myself. I just haven't managed to create a proper image yet. |
| 12:55.39 | killefiz | kernel patch? |
| 12:55.44 | mickeyl | killefiz: why not? buildroot does everything automatically |
| 12:55.47 | mickeyl | killefiz: yes |
| 12:55.50 | killefiz | make image works now? |
| 12:56.08 | mickeyl | sure - I'm working like crazy |
| 12:56.16 | killefiz | wow - i'll give it a try |
| 12:56.21 | mickeyl | do that :) |
| 12:58.44 | schurig | mickeyl: what do you mean with graphics subsystem? |
| 12:59.22 | schurig | I use the LCD interface of the PXA255 |
| 13:00.03 | mickeyl | oh, so no dedicated graphics interface needed |
| 13:00.20 | mickeyl | schurig: how bout your keyboard interface? how does this work? |
| 13:00.28 | mickeyl | is this ucb1x00 ? |
| 13:06.01 | schurig | no. We have a CPLD on our device. I set row's to high and get an IRQ if column goes low. Then I look with one by toggling the rows. Then I have an internal X/Y position. I use this to go into my key algorithm, and finally I produce an IBM PC104 scancode and send this keycode to the input driver subsystem |
| 13:06.16 | mickeyl | oh nice and clean |
| 13:06.18 | schurig | the CPLD is just an extended GPIO ... |
| 13:06.55 | schurig | I use UCB1400 for sound, touchscreen and some Analog->Digital converters, e.g. voltage of Goldcap, Temperature ... |
| 13:07.32 | schurig | mickeyl: i don't use the GPIOs of the UCB1400 |
| 13:12.18 | mickeyl | k |
| 13:14.38 | schurig | mickeyl: why did you ask? The Simpad doesn't have a keyboard, does it? |
| 13:15.13 | killefiz | is it just me or does opie/backgammon fail to compile everywhere? |
| 13:16.08 | mickeyl | killefiz: update your opie cvs - i fixed it |
| 13:16.25 | mickeyl | schurig: the simpad has a cursor-keypad and two additional switches which i can't get to work properly |
| 13:16.35 | mickeyl | schurig: i have /dev/misc/switches |
| 13:16.51 | mickeyl | schurig: reading from it blocks until i hit one of the switches but i can't find out which one has been toggled |
| 13:17.01 | schurig | mickeyl: do you know the schematics, e.g. where do the switches go to? |
| 13:17.28 | mickeyl | schurig: no idea, they're either connected to the sa1100 or the ucb1x00 |
| 13:17.39 | mickeyl | schurig: i have enabled both in the kernel config - maybe that is wrong |
| 13:18.21 | schurig | mickeyl: hmm, that's weird. For some reason, the decided to have no console on the Simpad. And therefore you can't program a normal "keyboard" functionality for it. |
| 13:18.36 | killefiz | mickeyl: oh - i was under the impression that it was up to date. I deleted build/opie and stamps/.opie* but did not delete source/opie - what is the buildroot way to update it? Deleting can't be the right way |
| 13:18.47 | mickeyl | killefiz: check your sources directory :) |
| 13:20.52 | killefiz | mickeyl: i find the sources there - but i.e. i don't know the opie cvs-server - do i have to go to opie.handhelds.org to find out about how/what to update or can i just do a make cvsupdate PACKAGE=opie or something? |
| 13:21.46 | mickeyl | killefiz: cd sources/opie; cvs update -PdA |
| 13:22.01 | mickeyl | if you are in a cvs directory you don't need to know CVSROOT |
| 13:22.07 | mickeyl | it's gathered automatically |
| 13:22.20 | killefiz | oh - sorry - i've never really _worked_ with cvs |
| 13:24.14 | killefiz | that explains some of my problemes during the last week - i was under the impression that buildroot updates automatically from cvs |
| 13:25.21 | mickeyl | no. it does that only if you clean the sources via make SUBDIRS=blabla clean-sourcetrees |
| 13:25.29 | mickeyl | or clean-sourcetre |
| 13:25.30 | mickeyl | e |
| 13:26.06 | mickeyl | actually to ensure a fresh rebuilt the safest bet is to define yourself a macro which does |
| 13:26.33 | mickeyl | make SUBDIRS=packages/$1 clean; make SUBDIRS=packages/$1 clean-sources; make SUBDIRS=packages/$1 clean-sourcetrees |
| 13:27.04 | mickeyl | my way is to rm -rf stamps and sources by hand but that might be too cumbersome for you |
| 13:28.16 | killefiz | ok that is for stuff from cvs but what about packages that are downloaded as tgz? Does buildroot get new versions automatically for these files? |
| 13:29.37 | mickeyl | no. please lookup Vars.make and Rules.make for the complete logic. |
| 13:29.58 | mickeyl | actually it depends on the stamps and the filename what happens |
| 13:30.14 | mickeyl | if stamps/.package.source exists the it is not downloaded again |
| 13:30.28 | mickeyl | if stamps/.package.sourcetree exists the it is not being extracted into build again |
| 13:30.29 | mickeyl | etc. |
| 13:31.23 | killefiz | thanks |
| 13:32.17 | mickeyl | scanline: ping |
| 13:33.07 | scanline | mickeyl: poing |
| 13:33.32 | mickeyl | scanline: hiho. how do you work with console switches in picogui? |
| 13:33.44 | scanline | ioctl()s and signals.. the usual |
| 13:34.00 | mickeyl | what ioctls? |
| 13:34.10 | mickeyl | is there an ioctl interface to the switches?? |
| 13:34.11 | scanline | I don't remember off the top of my head.. lemme fetch a link to the source |
| 13:34.19 | mickeyl | k |
| 13:34.33 | mickeyl | that would explain why I can't read anything via cat |
| 13:34.37 | scanline | http://navi.picogui.org/svn/picogui/trunk/pg1/server/video/fbdev.c |
| 13:34.46 | scanline | try linux/vt.h |
| 13:35.01 | scanline | all the VT_* ioctl()s |
| 13:36.47 | mickeyl | ah we might talk about different things |
| 13:36.53 | mickeyl | switches = buttons |
| 13:37.02 | scanline | oh |
| 13:37.18 | scanline | the kernel turns those into keyboard events |
| 13:37.30 | mickeyl | not on all devices. |
| 13:38.20 | scanline | I only have experience with the 5000 and 5500 |
| 13:38.29 | mickeyl | k |
| 13:40.57 | schurig | mickeyl: hmm, maybe you open your switsches and then try to set it to raw mode, then try a hexdump |
| 13:41.53 | schurig | mickeyl: is the source for the switches kernel module accessible via http? i would look into this file for you |
| 13:42.08 | mickeyl | schurig: raw mode - how would i do that? |
| 13:42.14 | schurig | ioctl |
| 13:42.21 | mickeyl | schurig: hold on - I'm getting the link for you |
| 13:43.34 | mickeyl | everything interesting is in http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/simpad/simpad-kernel/linux/drivers/misc/ |
| 13:51.58 | schurig | mickeyl: so, you open the switches and read a switches_mask_t in ? |
| 13:52.15 | mickeyl | d'oh - actually no |
| 13:52.22 | schurig | Ok, you do it this way: |
| 13:52.31 | schurig | #include <linux/switches.h> |
| 13:52.44 | schurig | look into your simpadkernel/include/linux/switches.h file |
| 13:52.53 | schurig | or here: |
| 13:52.55 | schurig | http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/simpad/simpad-kernel/linux/include/linux/switches.h?rev=1.1&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup |
| 13:53.08 | schurig | do you see the switches_mask_t structure? |
| 13:53.29 | mickeyl | yes |
| 13:53.50 | schurig | This is what you get back when you open /dev/misc/switches and some switch event happends |
| 13:54.18 | mickeyl | hmm.... get back how? a read just returns 0 bytes |
| 13:54.36 | schurig | really? Interesting. |
| 13:54.51 | mickeyl | yeah |
| 13:55.40 | schurig | do an lsmos, then open dev/misc/switches and do an lsmod. Does the usage count increase while the device is open? |
| 13:56.25 | mickeyl | it's not a module - compile in the kernel |
| 13:56.57 | schurig | oh |
| 13:57.16 | schurig | http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/simpad/simpad-kernel/linux/drivers/misc/switches-core.c?rev=1.2&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup |
| 13:57.23 | schurig | contains the code for this |
| 13:57.36 | schurig | the kernel calls switches_read if you open and read from this device |
| 13:58.00 | schurig | you need to read at LEAST sizeof(switches_mask_t) bytes from it. If you read less, you won't get back any stuff |
| 13:58.05 | mickeyl | aaaah |
| 13:58.07 | schurig | if (count < sizeof(struct switches_mask_t)) |
| 13:58.07 | schurig | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:58.16 | mickeyl | damn i hate that style |
| 13:58.25 | mickeyl | why don't they just return the complete structure if I say read() |
| 13:58.33 | schurig | that device doesn't give you back characters, it gives you back a full record |
| 13:58.59 | schurig | you can do read: |
| 13:59.12 | schurig | read(switches_file, &switches, sizeof(switches)) :-) |
| 13:59.28 | schurig | (with switches_mask_t switches) |
| 13:59.29 | mickeyl | yeah i know - problem is i'm doing this on the python command line :)) |
| 13:59.42 | mickeyl | but i will compile a test program no |
| 13:59.44 | mickeyl | now |
| 13:59.51 | schurig | mickeyl: then a joyful hour with unpack & co |
| 14:00.00 | mickeyl | hehe, nono, will use c++ now |
| 14:00.31 | schurig | hehe, it's always helpful to have a kernel hacker at hand :-) |
| 14:00.45 | mickeyl | yeah, thanks |
| 14:00.46 | schurig | (althought I still doesn't consider myself a kernel hacker) |
| 14:03.25 | ljp_laptop | if I add two lines to a kernel driver.. does that make me a kernel hacker? ;) |
| 14:06.42 | mickeyl | ljp_laptop: if you're patch gets accepted, then yes :) |
| 14:07.58 | *** join/#openembedded TheMasterMind1 (~aman@000-216-490.area4.spcsdns.net) |
| 14:09.54 | schurig | mickeyl: btw: when open and read and no event is there, then your process will be set sleep. So you might want to dig into poll() |
| 14:10.14 | TheMasterMind1 | hrm, i can't tell if this copy of harry potter 5 is real or not |
| 14:11.04 | schurig | mickeyl: ah, forget it, you can open with O_NDELAY to prevent the sleeping |
| 14:11.35 | mickeyl | schurig: actually, for the patch of qkeyboard_qws there will be a qsocketnotifier used |
| 14:12.03 | schurig | ljp_laptop: in this sense I'm not a kernel hacker, my hacks didn't made their way into mainstream linux. They are all based on PXA, and Russel King only accept a handful of PXA patches. And Linux only accepts a handful of ARM patches ... |
| 14:12.36 | *** topic/#openembedded by TheMasterMind1 -> OpenEmbedded - It Sucks Less!(tm) | News at http://openzaurus.org/ | User support questions in #openzaurus | OE Buildroot devs in #buildroot-oe | OZ/OE devs interested in 5% discount on Dynamism prices for C7xx, talk to TMM1 |
| 14:18.30 | mickeyl | schurig: yippe! |
| 14:18.38 | mickeyl | schurig: thanks for the help - its actually doing something :) |
| 14:20.51 | mickeyl | # ./sread |
| 14:20.51 | mickeyl | successfully read 0 bytes |
| 14:20.51 | mickeyl | switches field: 20 20 |
| 14:20.51 | mickeyl | successfully read 0 bytes |
| 14:20.51 | mickeyl | switches field: 20 0 |
| 14:20.51 | mickeyl | successfully read 0 bytes |
| 14:21.41 | *** join/#openembedded mickeyl (mickeyl@gandalf.tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de) |
| 14:21.59 | mickeyl | re. dumb client |
| 14:23.28 | schurig | hehe |
| 14:24.07 | mickeyl | now i "just" have to make a minimal keyboard driver in qkeyboard_qws for that |
| 14:24.17 | TheMasterMind1 | ~brando |
| 14:24.18 | | brando is probably sells/exports the Sharp Zaurus and other electronics http://shop.brando.com.hk/ or mailto:brando@brando.com.hk. C700 $500, C750 $533, C760 $633 USD, use email for zaurus orders, or plus shipping, or no warranty and japanese sortware. |
| 14:24.40 | mickeyl | Sugar: what is 633 USD in EUR |
| 14:24.42 | Sugar | 633 US$ is 540.58197 EUR |
| 14:24.47 | mickeyl | wow |
| 14:24.48 | mickeyl | pretty cheap |
| 14:24.54 | TheMasterMind1 | i'll say |
| 14:25.06 | mickeyl | but i have to pay 15% import tax |
| 14:25.08 | mickeyl | in germany |
| 14:25.14 | mickeyl | or eve more |
| 14:26.45 | TheMasterMind1 | yodobashi is even cheaper it seems |
| 14:27.16 | ljp_laptop | Sugar: what is 633 USD in AUD |
| 14:27.40 | TheMasterMind1 | http://www.zaurus.com/dev/board/index.php?act=ST&f=27&t=3668&s=4910232f425461b25b11cfdabe73000c |
| 14:27.46 | ljp_laptop | sugar doesnt like australia |
| 14:28.17 | TheMasterMind1 | ibot what is 69800 yen in usd |
| 14:28.17 | | TheMasterMind1: what are you talking about? |
| 14:28.27 | TheMasterMind1 | ibot convert 69800 yen to usd |
| 14:28.38 | TheMasterMind1 | hmm |
| 14:28.48 | ljp_laptop | ibot convert 633 usd to aud |
| 14:28.56 | ljp_laptop | fucker |
| 14:29.04 | TheMasterMind1 | sugar what is 69800 yen in usd |
| 14:29.10 | *** join/#openembedded XavierXeon (~mr_x@p5087742E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:29.24 | TheMasterMind1 | Sugar: convert 68900 yen to usd |
| 14:29.39 | TheMasterMind1 | Sugar: what is 69800 YEN in USD |
| 14:29.42 | TheMasterMind1 | *mutter* |
| 14:30.34 | TheMasterMind1 | Sugar: what is 69800 jpy in USD |
| 14:31.06 | TheMasterMind1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:31.07 | TheMasterMind1 | Japan Yen = 595.055 USD |
| 14:31.07 | TheMasterMind1 | United States Dollars |
| 14:31.07 | TheMasterMind1 | wow |
| 14:31.13 | TheMasterMind1 | thats like freaking cheap |
| 14:31.15 | TheMasterMind1 | for a c760 |
| 14:31.43 | XavierXeon | You have to pay far more when it reaches the states (taxes + transport) |
| 14:31.55 | TheMasterMind1 | hrm |
| 14:34.16 | schurig | ibot convert 69800 yen to euro |
| 14:34.27 | schurig | ibot: go home and take a nap |
| 14:34.28 | | schurig: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox? |
| 14:34.37 | scanline | ibot convert 69800 jpy to eur |
| 14:34.46 | XavierXeon | hey mickeyl : i f the dont publish the device here we could see if ew coud a discount when importing more than one |
| 14:34.50 | scanline | hrm |
| 14:34.52 | scanline | ibot convert 69800 yen to eur |
| 14:34.56 | TheMasterMind1 | ibot is old data too |
| 14:34.56 | | TheMasterMind1: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface. |
| 14:35.03 | TheMasterMind1 | xe.com yen->usd is much cheaper |
| 14:35.47 | *** join/#openembedded Speedy2 (johnny@max-fw-161.dallas.net) |
| 14:35.54 | pb_ | ibot, change 69800 jpy to eur |
| 14:36.05 | Speedy2 | Hi Phil |
| 14:36.08 | pb_ | hi Speedy2 |
| 14:36.09 | Speedy2 | ibot seen timriker |
| 14:36.10 | | timriker <~timr@c-67-163-110-34.client.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 7h 14m 49s ago, saying: '~google for steely-eyed, banana-slinging sharpshooters'. |
| 14:36.27 | Speedy2 | 7 hrs ago? He was up that late? Poor dude |
| 14:36.49 | scanline | that's only 1:30 in this time zone... |
| 14:37.00 | Speedy2 | He's in Dallas |
| 14:37.09 | scanline | isn't dallas in MST? |
| 14:37.11 | Speedy2 | No |
| 14:37.12 | Speedy2 | CST |
| 14:37.15 | scanline | ah |
| 14:40.50 | ljp_laptop | ~google for steely-eyed, banana-slinging sharpshooters |
| 14:42.54 | scanline | pet corn dog... freaky |
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| 15:20.09 | zecke | oh the C-760 is awesome |
| 15:21.36 | TheMasterMind1 | zecke: heh |
| 15:23.02 | ljp_laptop | you have one? |
| 15:23.47 | zecke | no |
| 15:23.54 | zecke | ljp_laptop: wanna buy me one ;) |
| 15:24.04 | zecke | damn 128 MB of flash... and a working CPU |
| 15:25.39 | TheMasterMind1 | mnn |
| 15:26.30 | pb_ | sounds cool, indeed. |
| 15:26.47 | zecke | pb_but lacks Bluetooth and wLan... |
| 15:27.18 | pb_ | ah, that's a shame. |
| 15:27.21 | pb_ | how much ram does it have? |
| 15:27.25 | zecke | 64 |
| 15:27.39 | zecke | pb_ japanese do not like bluetooth.... |
| 15:27.48 | zecke | pb_ put you've CF + SD slot |
| 15:27.52 | zecke | dunno about SDIO |
| 15:28.09 | TheMasterMind1 | lol, TI's samples packing list says "THESE ARE FREE SAMPLES. NO PAYMENT IS DUE. PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PROVIDE PAYMENT" |
| 15:28.22 | pb_ | heh |
| 15:28.46 | pb_ | TheMasterMind1: one of the worst things that can happen to an accountant is receiving an unexpected payment. |
| 15:28.52 | TheMasterMind1 | yea, really |
| 15:29.12 | TheMasterMind1 | i'd think they'd be willing to receive payment, especially since they fedex nextday air all samples |
| 15:29.40 | pb_ | they probably figure it'd cost them more in overheads than they lose on the shipping. |
| 15:30.28 | pb_ | zecke: I wonder why bluetooth isn't big in Japan. |
| 15:31.06 | zecke | pb_ me too. it's so powerful |
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| 15:31.23 | ljp_laptop | cause godzilla had blue teeth, and it reminds them of when he destroyed Tokyo |
| 15:31.33 | zecke | lol |
| 15:31.52 | zecke | ljp_laptop they don't think like US americans ;) |
| 15:31.57 | ljp_laptop | damn I loved all those godzilla movies |
| 15:32.31 | ljp_laptop | well... _I> am soon to be AU amercian |
| 15:32.43 | ljp_laptop | er _I_ that shoudl be |
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| 15:48.51 | ljp_laptop | too bad firebird can only use such crappy fonts. otherwise I'd use it |
| 15:52.59 | killefiz | mickeyl: ping |
| 15:54.26 | bipolar | hello everyone |
| 15:56.29 | mickeyl | killefiz: ping |
| 15:56.30 | mickeyl | pong |
| 15:56.30 | mickeyl | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:56.42 | killefiz | i managed to create an image |
| 15:56.49 | mickeyl | good |
| 15:56.52 | mickeyl | does it boot? |
| 15:56.54 | killefiz | one minor thing: pad.c isn't compiled by buildroot - i had to compile it manually |
| 15:57.05 | killefiz | mickeyl: i don't even know yet if it flashed - it's 27MB |
| 15:57.13 | bipolar | killefiz: an OE image? for what device? |
| 15:57.16 | mickeyl | you can't flash that with the current bootloader i'M afraid |
| 15:57.25 | mickeyl | bipolar: SIMpad |
| 15:57.37 | killefiz | mickeyl: i'll give it a try - and if it doesnt work i'll try to find out why it is so big |
| 15:57.44 | killefiz | i found my ne2k! |
| 15:58.03 | mickeyl | ok |
| 15:58.05 | mickeyl | congrats |
| 15:58.06 | mickeyl | :)) |
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| 16:19.57 | chouimat | morning |
| 16:20.28 | mickeyl | hi chouimat |
| 16:22.08 | chouimat | hi mickeyl |
| 16:22.29 | killefiz | mickeyl: my simpad image is always 27991364 bytes - i've deactivated some options under output/.config but it's still of the very same size? |
| 16:23.25 | killefiz | oh - and the bl doesn't even try to flash it - it doesn't give any errormsg |
| 16:23.48 | mickeyl | yep - that's what happened to me |
| 16:24.20 | mickeyl | image size: disable all -modules packages except base-modules |
| 16:25.02 | mickeyl | def-configs/simpad-opie_image should produce a 15MB image (if they're no updates from me pending..) |
| 16:25.24 | killefiz | strange - that is what i'm using |
| 16:26.07 | mickeyl | you did clean the rootfs before didn't you? |
| 16:26.34 | killefiz | clean rootfs? |
| 16:26.37 | killefiz | aehm - no |
| 16:26.42 | mickeyl | tssss |
| 16:26.49 | mickeyl | make image_clean |
| 16:26.53 | killefiz | that explains it |
| 16:28.15 | killefiz | well - it's better now but still 18M |
| 16:28.30 | killefiz | i copied your config again so it should give 15M, right? |
| 16:29.08 | killefiz | 16M worth of kernelmodules |
| 16:29.24 | mickeyl | should - yes - if i didn't forget something else... i tend to work on simpad stuff late in the evening and that makes me forget things... |
| 16:29.38 | killefiz | nevermind - i'll figure it out myself ;) |
| 16:29.42 | mickeyl | :) |
| 16:29.59 | killefiz | irda.o is 4.3M? wtf |
| 16:30.04 | yeiazel | wow :) |
| 16:30.38 | killefiz | it was not stripped |
| 16:30.50 | killefiz | stripping brings it to 94848bytes |
| 16:31.03 | mickeyl | stripping renders .o modules unusable |
| 16:31.29 | mickeyl | play around with --strip-unneeded |
| 16:31.39 | mickeyl | strip it completely and it won't load. |
| 16:31.54 | killefiz | ok - just when i think i'm onto something ;) |
| 16:32.19 | pb_ | you can use readelf or objdump to figure out why it's so big. |
| 16:32.33 | pb_ | debug information can be safely removed, but you need to keep strings and symbols. |
| 16:33.11 | mickeyl | killefiz: you can erase boot/zImage and you can arm-linux-strip libc6 |
| 16:33.30 | killefiz | --strip unneeded brings irlan.o from 1.6M to 38148 bytes but why are they that huge? |
| 16:33.31 | mickeyl | you can also erase zoneinfo |
| 16:34.34 | pb_ | killefiz: are you building with -g? |
| 16:34.50 | pb_ | if so, you should desist. |
| 16:34.59 | killefiz | pb_: i'm building with whatever buildroot defaults to |
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| 16:37.43 | mickeyl | YIPPEE! |
| 16:39.17 | killefiz | mickeyl: what did you do? |
| 16:40.24 | mickeyl | killefiz: I wrote a minimal QWS keyboard handler to support the SIMpad keyboard cross and additional buttons... and to my very surprise... it just plain works hehe! |
| 16:40.35 | killefiz | amazing |
| 16:40.44 | mickeyl | not a bad result for 3 hours coding |
| 16:40.53 | mickeyl | one showstopper less |
| 16:44.08 | mickeyl | so - what's basically missing until the first OpenSIMpad release is support for the battery charger. everything else can come later. |
| 16:44.19 | mickeyl | s/until/for |
| 16:44.34 | killefiz | mickeyl: another missing thing is an official release of the bootloader |
| 16:44.44 | mickeyl | ah yeah, but that's not up to us. |
| 16:54.46 | killefiz | mickeyl: my image is configuring the packages now - the configure process seems much faster than the one on cmartins 2205-image |
| 16:55.16 | mickeyl | might be because there are less packages |
| 16:55.17 | killefiz | 55 packages configured in less then a minute |
| 16:55.29 | mickeyl | Twiun[away] tweaked something here |
| 16:55.30 | killefiz | no - there are only a few packages less |
| 16:55.49 | mickeyl | so you used make image to get the serload-image ? |
| 16:55.54 | killefiz | mickeyl: have you ever stripped your kernel-modules? |
| 16:56.02 | mickeyl | no |
| 16:56.06 | killefiz | mickeyl: yes - i tried flashing the .bin image first |
| 16:56.12 | killefiz | which didn't work ;) |
| 16:56.15 | mickeyl | d'oh - that doesn't work :)) |
| 16:56.21 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 16:56.34 | mickeyl | good that you confirmed my image generation to work - it wasn't tested :-D |
| 16:56.42 | killefiz | the name .serload is misleading - i'm not flashing via serload ;) |
| 16:56.47 | mickeyl | aah well |
| 16:56.48 | mickeyl | :) |
| 16:57.02 | killefiz | could the huge modules be a reason for the simpad taking ages to boot? |
| 16:57.07 | mickeyl | might be |
| 16:57.08 | mickeyl | now idea |
| 16:57.13 | mickeyl | we will optimize later |
| 16:57.24 | mickeyl | did you build an image with tslib or without? |
| 16:58.43 | killefiz | no tslib |
| 16:59.16 | mickeyl | ok. it works better with tslib but it should also work without |
| 16:59.52 | killefiz | what do i have to recompile to get tslib support? qt-embedded and opie or just qt-embedded? |
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| 17:00.10 | mickeyl | recompiling qt-embedded is sufficient |
| 17:00.15 | mickeyl | and tslib of course |
| 17:00.21 | mickeyl | the touchscreen 'feels' better when using tslib. |
| 17:03.32 | mickeyl | actually it seems to be jffs2 which is hanging one or two minutes before starting the INIT process |
| 17:06.56 | carsten_ | do empty lines hurt in .desktop-files? |
| 17:07.01 | mickeyl | no |
| 17:07.09 | carsten_ | I am removing [ko] and [ja] everywhere |
| 17:07.20 | carsten_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:07.20 | carsten_ | -Name[ko]=그림í |
| 17:07.20 | carsten_ | + |
| 17:07.20 | carsten_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:07.20 | carsten_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:07.21 | carsten_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:07.23 | carsten_ | # |
| 17:07.30 | carsten_ | is the result. Ok? |
| 17:07.37 | carsten_ | s/#// |
| 17:07.51 | carsten_ | perl -pi~ -e's/^.*\[ko\].*//' *.desktop |
| 17:07.55 | carsten_ | is there a smarter way? |
| 17:08.03 | mickeyl | wow perl magic |
| 17:08.18 | carsten_ | mickeyl|dinner: I know _nothing_ about py ;) |
| 17:09.46 | pb_ | carsten_: could use sed '/^.*\[ko\].*/d' or some such. |
| 17:10.48 | carsten_ | mmh, the "d" is a good I dea |
| 17:13.35 | carsten_ | s/^.*\[ko\].*// |
| 17:13.46 | killefiz | anyone familiar with the openembedded init procedure? I'd like to know how /etc/init.d/inetd is started. I cannot find it linked anywhere ... |
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| 17:31.21 | mickeyl | killefiz: and? everything working? |
| 17:31.43 | killefiz | no - opie doesn't start - when i start it manually i don't have touchscreen |
| 17:31.56 | treke|home | bad ram |
| 17:31.58 | mickeyl | killefiz: hmmm |
| 17:32.10 | killefiz | i'm compiling with tslib now |
| 17:32.16 | mickeyl | killefiz: what does /opt/QtPalmtop/bin/qpe outputs ? |
| 17:32.41 | killefiz | wait - i'll check |
| 17:32.52 | killefiz | another thing: i get this on serial: |
| 17:32.58 | killefiz | Starting internet superserver: inetd. . |
| 17:33.01 | killefiz | óz.7xîØy..#±ì.bè2è.:.1Qq.2#Ü39ò.;.û.y..#±ì.bè2è.:.1.q.2#Ü39ò.;.û.y..#±ì.bè2è.:.] |
| 17:33.07 | killefiz | which doesn't look right ;) |
| 17:33.36 | killefiz | but at least wlan works |
| 17:33.50 | mickeyl | that is ok |
| 17:34.16 | Sugar | 69800 JPY is 597.75629 US$ |
| 17:34.21 | mickeyl | happens here also - i think that has to do with the getty |
| 17:34.33 | mickeyl | try to connect with 115200 baud and you'll see a login process |
| 17:34.49 | killefiz | cannot open /dev/h3600_ts (No such file ...) |
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| 17:35.12 | mickeyl | killefiz: is this exatc? |
| 17:35.18 | mickeyl | or is it /dev/h3600_tsraw ? |
| 17:35.19 | masticator | sup dudes. |
| 17:35.30 | killefiz | no - it's h3600_ts |
| 17:35.51 | mickeyl | killefiz: d'oh... then something went wrong with the patch. try the tslib built |
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| 17:36.17 | killefiz | will do - you haven't commited that switch-stuff yet, have you? |
| 17:36.45 | killefiz | mickeyl: another thing - the simpad seems to suspend after a minute or two of inactivity |
| 17:36.55 | mickeyl | sure |
| 17:37.00 | mickeyl | that's the default settings |
| 17:37.08 | mickeyl | use opie-light-and-power to change it as you like |
| 17:37.18 | mickeyl | this is working :) |
| 17:37.31 | killefiz | grr - not so easy withouth a touchscreen ;) |
| 17:37.35 | mickeyl | ups... |
| 17:37.35 | mickeyl | :-D |
| 17:37.55 | killefiz | it does resume from the suspend - but networking is gone ... |
| 17:38.35 | mickeyl | yep - no wonder. we don't issue suspend scripts before suspending |
| 17:38.54 | treke|home | btw debian fuxed libpng3 bigtime :) |
| 17:38.54 | killefiz | ok - so that shouldn't be hard to fix |
| 17:39.04 | mickeyl | killefiz: you can try 'ln -s /dev/touchscreen/ucb1x00 /dev/h3600_ts' for the touchscreen |
| 17:40.21 | chouimat | hi TheMasterMind1 |
| 17:40.44 | killefiz | mickeyl: have you checked how big the modules on your pad are? |
| 17:40.54 | mickeyl | yes - pretty big :_D |
| 17:41.08 | mickeyl | we will do something about it later |
| 17:41.12 | treke|home | strip them :p |
| 17:41.13 | killefiz | strip-unneeded seems to work |
| 17:41.24 | mickeyl | killefiz: check if sa1100_ir is loading |
| 17:42.00 | killefiz | mickeyl: no it doesn't |
| 17:42.11 | killefiz | symbol for parameter power_level not found |
| 17:42.16 | mickeyl | well... then you stripped too much :-D |
| 17:42.20 | mickeyl | it loads here |
| 17:42.20 | killefiz | but hostap_cs does load |
| 17:42.45 | ljp_laptop | yaaa! my camera works in linux |
| 17:44.07 | killefiz | seems that some modules work stripped and others wont |
| 17:44.53 | mickeyl | killefiz: i will go for a walk ... bbl... good luck with the tslib image. if opie calibration does not work right after boot, install tslib-tools and calibrate with ts_calibrate |
| 17:44.56 | mickeyl | cu |
| 17:45.33 | chouimat | ljp_laptop: good |
| 17:54.38 | TheMasterMind1 | anyone have a centrino laptop running linux? |
| 17:59.10 | yeiazel | no |
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| 18:01.43 | chouimat | TheMasterMind1: centrino? |
| 18:08.52 | treke|home | TheMasterMind1: dont think it works yet |
| 18:10.05 | TheMasterMind1 | hmmf |
| 18:11.48 | killefiz | TheMasterMind1: see http://kt.zork.net/kernel-traffic/kt20030523_217.html |
| 18:12.15 | killefiz | or even http://kt.zork.net/kernel-traffic/kt20030523_217.html#7 |
| 18:13.20 | TheMasterMind1 | hmm |
| 18:13.35 | TheMasterMind1 | zaurus.com/dev/board has a guy selling his month old c700 for $400 |
| 18:13.46 | TheMasterMind1 | killefiz: sweet, thanks |
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| 18:29.36 | treke|home | bleh. code that compiles for i386 that doesnt want to cross compile |
| 18:29.36 | treke|home | damn it |
| 18:29.47 | Twiun | Oooo, I know that one! |
| 18:29.55 | killefiz | what is the difference between konqueror and konqueror-full? |
| 18:30.01 | treke|home | ssl and javascript |
| 18:30.02 | Twiun | full has js support |
| 18:30.13 | killefiz | ok - i want full then |
| 18:30.20 | Twiun | .. and what treke said :) |
| 18:30.33 | treke|home | Twiun: the funny thing is that there really isnt anything that should break it. but for some reason the cross compiler cant find the definition of pid_t. :) |
| 18:30.44 | treke|home | oh well. I reckon and int will work |
| 18:30.49 | chouimat|away | ok bb later I need to go buy a book |
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| 18:32.54 | Twiun | hrm. cool - finally found how to change the console font, wish more of the CONFIG options compiled though |
| 18:33.02 | treke|home | do |
| 18:33.04 | treke|home | doh |
| 18:33.23 | treke|home | I had inserted an if statement before I declared the variable. no wonder it didnt work :p |
| 18:33.45 | Twiun | what are you coding in? |
| 18:33.49 | treke|home | c |
| 18:34.11 | Twiun | and it didn't throw a compiler error? |
| 18:34.30 | treke|home | it did, but I didnt recognize as that being the cause of the error |
| 18:34.55 | treke|home | havent had to do c in a while, so I didnt recognize that as a problem :) |
| 18:35.15 | Twiun | ahhh |
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| 18:41.08 | TheMasterMind1 | lol |
| 18:41.46 | Twiun | grrr |
| 18:42.26 | Twiun | why is it I can only seem to get the 8x8, 8x16 and 4x6 fonts compiling? |
| 18:44.32 | treke|home | shooot |
| 18:44.46 | treke|home | Twiun: what format? |
| 18:44.57 | Twiun | treke|home: kernel config params |
| 18:45.15 | treke|home | ah. no clue |
| 18:45.15 | Twiun | treke|home: not opie qpf/ttf :) |
| 18:51.52 | Twiun | hrmph |
| 18:52.16 | treke|home | mickeyl|goneWalk: sure enough, hotplug usbnet doesnt work :p |
| 18:58.59 | TheMasterMind1 | ehehe |
| 19:10.04 | TheMasterMind1 | that'd be coool |
| 19:18.04 | treke|home | mickeyl|goneWalk: fixed :p |
| 19:19.52 | Twiun | anyone remember where I can find an explanation of the kapm-idled process's reason for running? |
| 19:23.17 | *** join/#openembedded ljp_laptop (~ljp@tq0208.peakpeak.com) |
| 19:24.26 | treke|home | sends halt's iirc |
| 19:25.17 | Twiun | I remember it was something to do with powersaving |
| 19:25.39 | treke|home | right |
| 19:26.03 | treke|home | when the cpu isnt doing anything it sends halt commands to the cpu to save power |
| 19:26.19 | Twiun | ahh |
| 19:26.59 | Twiun | cool - found what made the Z blank the screen in console mode :) |
| 19:27.32 | ljp_laptop | apm? |
| 19:27.41 | Twiun | yeah, config option |
| 19:27.46 | Twiun | CONFIG_APM_DISPLAY_BLANK |
| 20:00.46 | Twiun | I wonder if we could make the pingizaurus bootlogo a non-scrolling background to the console the same way gentoo does... |
| 20:08.07 | killefiz | good - i managed to reduce boot time for the simpad from ~3 minutes to 47 seconds |
| 20:08.29 | ljp_laptop | wow |
| 20:09.01 | killefiz | all i had to do was turn off jff2-debug ;) |
| 20:09.28 | ljp_laptop | hmmm |
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| 20:13.11 | Twiun | lol |
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| 20:28.58 | SuKoShi | hi |
| 20:29.01 | Speedy2 | Hello. |
| 20:29.28 | Speedy2 | Wow, really? |
| 20:29.32 | Speedy2 | How was it? |
| 20:31.42 | SuKoShi | Quick fun, since i've been there with Troma |
| 20:32.07 | Speedy2 | I see |
| 20:32.16 | Speedy2 | Did you fly into France or do you live there? |
| 20:32.21 | SuKoShi | i'm french |
| 20:32.33 | SuKoShi | i was with buddies from Washington DC |
| 20:32.37 | SuKoShi | (Baltimore) |
| 20:32.53 | Speedy2 | I have a friend who's French. Haven't heard from him in a while though |
| 20:33.07 | Speedy2 | (mail to his hotmail account bounces) |
| 20:33.24 | SuKoShi | where is he from? |
| 20:33.38 | Speedy2 | "North" |
| 20:33.41 | Speedy2 | He went to Esperot |
| 20:33.45 | Speedy2 | Espero? |
| 20:33.49 | Speedy2 | University |
| 20:35.35 | treke|home | hey. anyone know if there is a way to force exec() to return from within the application started by the exec? or is it already to late? |
| 20:50.54 | pb_ | no, the exec'd application completely replaces the calling program. |
| 20:51.04 | Twiun | ack. feck. |
| 20:51.18 | treke|home | pb_: Thats what I figured. oh well |
| 20:51.24 | Twiun | bloody video driver doesn't support other font widths :( |
| 20:51.40 | Twiun | only 4, 8, 12 and 16 |
| 20:52.07 | Twiun | guess I'll have to write in support for 5 and 6 then |
| 20:52.09 | TheMasterMind1 | Twiun: how goes the java project |
| 20:52.35 | Twiun | TheMasterMind1: on hold atm, this other project's getting precedence as I'm getting paid to do it :) |
| 20:53.02 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 20:53.06 | TheMasterMind1 | what other project is that |
| 20:53.47 | Twiun | the company that's contracting me is turning the Z into a medical monitoring device |
| 20:54.05 | treke|home | what company is this? |
| 20:54.21 | Twiun | lol |
| 20:54.36 | Twiun | and the stuff is java-based :) |
| 20:54.41 | treke|home | "shit had to hard reset my pace maker" |
| 20:54.54 | Twiun | nah, nah - only monitoring - nothing else |
| 20:55.02 | Twiun | no active outputs |
| 20:55.20 | Twiun | the Z is easy to wire to gprs |
| 20:55.31 | Twiun | (I assume gprs is what they'll use) |
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| 21:10.25 | *** join/#openembedded sonix` (~sonix@pcp03281031pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:12.04 | sonix` | who is this TMM1 dude? |
| 21:12.44 | sonix` | lol |
| 21:12.48 | sonix` | TheMasterMind1 !!! |
| 21:13.42 | chouimat | hmmm ok know why it's raining like hell today ..... sonix` is now a genius |
| 21:13.57 | sonix` | ofcourse! |
| 21:18.11 | TheMasterMind1 | sonix`: !! |
| 21:18.16 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 21:18.17 | sonix` | TheMasterMind1: !! |
| 21:18.17 | TheMasterMind1 | good job |
| 21:18.26 | sonix` | yo so i want a c750. |
| 21:18.30 | sonix` | now what/ |
| 21:18.41 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 21:18.51 | TheMasterMind1 | from dynamism? |
| 21:18.55 | sonix` | yah |
| 21:19.10 | TheMasterMind1 | some of the other places are cheaper |
| 21:19.24 | TheMasterMind1 | http://www.zaurus.com/dev/board/index.php?act=ST&f=27&t=3668&s=6dfbef50f2dd4d0bdf9578137f293367 |
| 21:19.25 | TheMasterMind1 | read |
| 21:19.35 | sonix` | seen it. |
| 21:19.40 | sonix` | i want warantee |
| 21:19.46 | TheMasterMind1 | kdoke |
| 21:19.57 | sonix` | kdoke? |
| 21:20.10 | TheMasterMind1 | okey dokey |
| 21:20.19 | sonix` | i knew that. |
| 21:20.25 | sonix` | * sonix` is a genius. |
| 21:20.28 | sonix` | see! |
| 21:21.44 | treke|home | ibot, seen zecke? |
| 21:21.44 | | zecke <~ich@pD9E7E6D3.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #openembedded, 5h 49m 52s ago, saying: 'ljp_laptop they don't think like US americans ;)'. |
| 21:24.37 | treke|home | 600 bucks for a c760? nice |
| 21:24.56 | sonix` | shipped to the US? |
| 21:24.58 | sonix` | i doubt it. |
| 21:25.34 | treke|home | too big a pain in the ass if something break |
| 21:25.50 | sonix` | dynamism has a "warantee" |
| 21:26.02 | treke|home | sonix`: still a pain. think turnaround time :) |
| 21:26.07 | sonix` | yeah |
| 21:26.13 | sonix` | but i think the c750 is worth it |
| 21:26.27 | sonix` | not sure if its worth it if you already have a 550. |
| 21:26.28 | treke|home | with my ipaq I've seen two day service |
| 21:26.30 | sonix` | 5500 |
| 21:26.37 | sonix` | what did u break? |
| 21:26.41 | treke|home | ship it monday get it back thursday |
| 21:26.57 | treke|home | er that would be 3 days |
| 21:27.02 | sonix` | :) |
| 21:27.11 | treke|home | sonix`: That was for a cracked screen |
| 21:27.20 | sonix` | how did it break? |
| 21:27.26 | treke|home | dog |
| 21:27.30 | sonix` | :( |
| 21:27.40 | treke|home | hoped up on my lap and landed on the screen |
| 21:27.47 | sonix` | ouch |
| 21:27.51 | sonix` | warantee coverd that? |
| 21:27.57 | treke|home | yes. my balls didnt like it much :) |
| 21:28.05 | sonix` | lol |
| 21:28.06 | treke|home | sonix`: nope |
| 21:28.17 | sonix` | ho wmuch |
| 21:28.29 | treke|home | dont recall. that was about a year and a half ago |
| 21:28.37 | treke|home | I'd have to dig up a receipt |
| 21:28.43 | treke|home | it was cheaper than a new one |
| 21:29.40 | sonix` | cheaper than buying a refurb? |
| 21:29.53 | sonix` | or buying a broken one on ebay and repairing it? |
| 21:29.57 | treke|home | I didnt price refurbs, but probably |
| 21:35.40 | TheMasterMind1 | i'd go for a refurbed c750/760 |
| 21:35.49 | sonix` | refurb? |
| 21:35.49 | sonix` | heh |
| 21:35.52 | sonix` | it just came out |
| 21:36.07 | TheMasterMind1 | yea |
| 21:36.11 | TheMasterMind1 | lol |
| 21:36.26 | TheMasterMind1 | or if dynamism had a demo or returned unit |
| 21:38.28 | treke|home | TheMasterMind1: tell them to recall kergoths and sell it to you |
| 21:38.47 | TheMasterMind1 | haha |
| 21:38.52 | TheMasterMind1 | i dont' want a c700 though |
| 21:39.04 | TheMasterMind1 | buggy_processor-- |
| 21:39.13 | treke|home | fine then tell them to recall kergoths and give it to me |
| 21:39.38 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 21:40.36 | TheMasterMind1 | kergoth@bitkeeper:~$ rm .ssh/treke_rsa.key |
| 21:40.43 | treke|home | hehe |
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| 21:41.09 | treke|home | now even simpler than before :p |
| 21:43.39 | treke|home | oops |
| 21:44.11 | ljp_laptop | opps? |
| 21:44.25 | treke|home | running cvs diff from $HOME instead of $OPIEDIR |
| 21:44.40 | ljp_laptop | ahh |
| 21:44.55 | ljp_laptop | when I do that I get gutenbrowser at sf |
| 21:45.17 | treke|home | hehe |
| 21:45.26 | treke|home | when are you going to update gutenbrowser, anyways? |
| 21:45.57 | ljp_laptop | embedded? |
| 21:46.15 | treke|home | yes |
| 21:46.24 | ljp_laptop | I have many changes to fold into that main tree, and I am procrastinating.. big time |
| 21:46.30 | ljp_laptop | oh. emb? hmm |
| 21:46.51 | treke|home | tim is getting ahead of you :) |
| 21:46.54 | ljp_laptop | it's perfect. no changes required |
| 21:49.01 | ljp_laptop | not sure I know what it needs/wants |
| 21:49.29 | ljp_laptop | the last big change was the ability to open 'War and Peace' |
| 21:49.33 | ljp_laptop | heh |
| 21:52.13 | ljp_laptop | maybe I'll add tkc style to it.. heh |
| 21:53.16 | treke|home | you've got the source for it, right? |
| 21:53.32 | ljp_laptop | me throws in a pizza |
| 21:53.52 | ljp_laptop | I would get sued. |
| 21:54.52 | ljp_laptop | man I have to decide now what I might need to be shipped to me later. |
| 21:55.04 | ljp_laptop | things like mic cables... |
| 21:56.13 | ljp_laptop | hmm, guitars |
| 21:56.23 | ljp_laptop | effects rack |
| 21:56.29 | ljp_laptop | mixer |
| 21:56.45 | ljp_laptop | might not be worth it to ship it all |
| 21:57.34 | ljp_laptop | hey, I have a digi camera now. I can upload photos pf my ass |
| 21:57.54 | sonix` | w00t w00t. |
| 21:58.09 | sonix` | mebbe you can submit some pics to www.goatse.cx |
| 21:59.35 | TheMasterMind1 | tubgirl too |
| 22:19.54 | Twiun | oh joy: |
| 22:19.58 | Twiun | "For those readers who are really interested in the Linux keyboard, the best approach to keyboard.c is from the last line upward. Lowest level details occur mainly in the first half of the file." |
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| 22:26.43 | TheMasterMind1 | Twiun: heh, i looked at kernel keyboard handling once |
| 22:26.45 | TheMasterMind1 | its hell |
| 22:27.02 | TheMasterMind1 | something as simple as keyboard input.. |
| 22:27.15 | Twiun | yah |
| 22:27.27 | Twiun | I _will_ eventually understand how it works, but it's hell |
| 22:27.43 | Twiun | take that LCD blanking config param - even with it switched off, the LCD blanks |
| 22:27.54 | Twiun | although now the green led no longer flashes... |
| 22:28.05 | Twiun | and he runs out on me :) |
| 22:34.28 | Twiun | hey mickeyl |
| 22:34.50 | treke|home | hey mickey |
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| 22:36.21 | mickeyl | re |
| 22:36.24 | mickeyl | hi folks |
| 22:36.27 | mickeyl | <Twiun> I wonder if we could make the pingizaurus bootlogo a non-scrolling background to the console the same way gentoo does... |
| 22:36.40 | mickeyl | Answer: check kergoths kernel 2.4.19 for zaurus - he already implemented that there |
| 22:36.49 | Twiun | mickeyl: ooo, cool |
| 22:37.03 | *** join/#openembedded tiptone (~tiptone@h24-206-180-113.tx.shawcable.net) |
| 22:37.12 | Twiun | mickeyl: I can do without my sd card for a while :) |
| 22:37.33 | mickeyl | Twiun: the kernel module from 2.4.18 works |
| 22:37.43 | mickeyl | it is contained in SharpROM3.1 |
| 22:37.52 | Twiun | mickeyl: the LCD blanking and the keyboard shutdown are my last two hassles... |
| 22:37.58 | Twiun | mickeyl: that;s good to know, thanks |
| 22:38.18 | mickeyl | treke: i really wish the -hh patches would be more seperated... there is a lot of cool stuff in it for all arm-architectures, but i can't just dissect a patch which is over 500000 lines long :(( |
| 22:38.36 | mickeyl | especially not with my lack of kernel knowledge |
| 22:40.54 | tiptone | mickeyl: when developing on the zaurus with python/qt what libraries do you look at |
| 22:41.03 | tiptone | Qt or Qtopia? |
| 22:41.47 | mickeyl | qt for 95% of the stuff. qtpe is just useful for a few integration pieces, e.g. how to display text on the taskbar and stuff. |
| 22:42.38 | tiptone | how do you get an app to display an icon on the taskbar, or is that too in-depth for a quick answer? |
| 22:43.28 | sonix` | tiptone how did u run that app? |
| 22:43.30 | sonix` | using the terminal? |
| 22:44.01 | tiptone | sonix`: i added python to the mime types and made a .desktop file |
| 22:44.06 | mickeyl | tiptone: hehe, that is actually pretty easy if you know why it doesnt function - but took me weeks to figure out :)) |
| 22:44.35 | sonix` | mickeyl will you tell him the answer? |
| 22:44.35 | sonix` | hehe |
| 22:44.36 | mickeyl | mmmh... |
| 22:44.58 | mickeyl | tiptone: you don't get a receipe from me.... I'd rather teach you to find the solution on your own |
| 22:45.14 | sonix` | good answer. |
| 22:45.17 | mickeyl | tiptone: the interesting thing is that... how does the launcher know which icon to display and when ? |
| 22:45.48 | mickeyl | tiptone: you click on an icon and the launcher parses the .desktop file for that icon |
| 22:46.01 | mickeyl | tiptone: so far so good. he checks the name of the executable and runs it |
| 22:46.50 | mickeyl | tiptone: now as soon as an application creates a QPEApplication where argv[0] is == the executable name, the taskbar knows: "Hey, I just ran that executable. Now I know the icon for it from the .desktop file - let's display it" |
| 22:47.04 | mickeyl | tiptone: so far so good.... 20 seconds to breathe |
| 22:47.30 | mickeyl | tiptone: Problem is: If you run a script in Python, the 1st argument is not the name of the script but the name of python ! D'oh! |
| 22:47.43 | mickeyl | tiptone: solution is a one-liner.... can you guess? |
| 22:48.51 | mickeyl | silence... |
| 22:49.13 | tiptone | sorry, phone call |
| 22:49.37 | tiptone | hmmm. sounds like an if statement but i'm drawing a blank |
| 22:49.42 | Twiun | mickeyl: lol, you could've warned me that the 2.4.19 kernel was in bk... |
| 22:49.57 | mickeyl | Twiun: hehe sorry |
| 22:50.03 | mickeyl | tiptone: well forgive me... i'm to become a fucking professor and that is habit forming :-D |
| 22:50.32 | mickeyl | tiptone: the solution is instead of doing QPEApplication.__init__( sys.argv ) |
| 22:50.33 | tiptone | i'm new to linux programming, i love the power but it's a bit overwhelming |
| 22:50.39 | mickeyl | do QPEApplication.__init__( sys.argv[1:] ) |
| 22:50.42 | sonix` | lol! |
| 22:50.57 | tiptone | very nice. |
| 22:51.03 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 22:51.04 | treke|home | mickeyl: usbnet is fixed now |
| 22:51.10 | treke|home | mickeyl: well as fixed as it ever gets |
| 22:51.12 | mickeyl | treke: wow, that is good news! |
| 22:51.14 | treke|home | since it sucks ass |
| 22:51.16 | mickeyl | treke: hehe |
| 22:51.29 | Twiun | I thought usbnet was a step up from usbDnet? |
| 22:51.33 | tiptone | haha, shows how far off i am, i'm launching the app as QApplication |
| 22:51.45 | mickeyl | tiptone: D'oh! that way it can't work anyway |
| 22:51.49 | treke|home | Twiun: no one ever said it was a big step |
| 22:51.55 | Twiun | lol |
| 22:52.08 | tiptone | that's why i asked about the libraries |
| 22:52.22 | mickeyl | yeah |
| 22:52.32 | tiptone | i couldn't figure out the benefit, now it's more clear |
| 22:52.36 | mickeyl | and now you understand my response :) |
| 22:52.39 | *** join/#openembedded Myren (matt@66-44-1-98.s352.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com) |
| 22:52.39 | mickeyl | yep |
| 22:52.46 | tiptone | perfectly, thanks =) |
| 22:52.50 | mickeyl | integration into Qtopia is the keyword here. |
| 22:53.55 | mickeyl | integration into Opie will be soon much better when my python-opie bindings are finished |
| 22:54.11 | tiptone | do i need to import qpe instead of qt? |
| 22:54.24 | mickeyl | from qtpe import QPEApplication |
| 22:54.29 | mickeyl | from qt import * |
| 22:55.45 | mickeyl | btw., next time i write a book i will ensure that it gets translated into english. releasing a german programming book is dumb |
| 22:55.50 | mickeyl | note to self - that is |
| 22:55.57 | treke|home | mickeyl: hehe |
| 22:56.04 | treke|home | mickeyl: not making much off it? |
| 22:56.16 | tiptone | are the opie librarie documented like Qt at Trolltech? |
| 22:56.21 | mickeyl | tiptone: yes |
| 22:56.41 | mickeyl | treke: exactly. actually the problem is it is a specialists book... its called "Python and GUI-Toolkits". |
| 22:56.54 | mickeyl | which makes the audience pretty small |
| 22:57.12 | treke|home | mickeyl: start translating :p |
| 22:57.35 | treke|home | you talk good american |
| 22:57.41 | Twiun | mickeyl: peer/non-peer Compononent/non-component based toolkits? |
| 22:57.48 | mickeyl | hehe thanks. |
| 22:58.51 | treke|home | hrmm. why is this code not working |
| 22:59.07 | mickeyl | Twiun: no the book is featuring a brief introduction into Python, then a chapter about how to write GUI-Toolkit-independent applications and then I feature a complete non-trivial address book application explaining nearly every line for the toolkits wxWindows, GTK+ 2, Tk and Qt. |
| 22:59.26 | Twiun | Oooo |
| 22:59.54 | chouimat | mickeyl: ? |
| 23:00.07 | treke|home | mickeyl: get a portin |
| 23:00.17 | mickeyl | might try that |
| 23:00.25 | mickeyl | chouimat: didn't get the point? |
| 23:01.24 | chouimat | mickeyl: nm |
| 23:01.28 | mickeyl | k |
| 23:01.59 | mickeyl | i might focus on writing articles instead of books... gets payed better |
| 23:02.22 | mickeyl | progressing yet, treke? |
| 23:03.19 | treke|home | mickeyl: hard to tell. just realized the reason i'm not seeing my debug text is because it's in a forked process :) |
| 23:04.05 | mickeyl | treke: aaah i hate that. this is the reason why i wrote the odebug classes in libopie2. you can choose where they come out in runtime between console, syslog, message box and even via UDP-sockets! |
| 23:04.15 | treke|home | cool |
| 23:04.18 | mickeyl | all will be well after opie 1.0 :-D |
| 23:04.33 | treke|home | trying to fix the bug where loging out with autologin just logs you right back in |
| 23:04.44 | treke|home | autoloin on |
| 23:04.47 | mickeyl | d'oh - that's weird |
| 23:05.10 | Twiun | mickeyl: anything I should know about mach-types.h and .fix_mach_types? |
| 23:06.15 | treke|home | mickeyl: its not weird in the sense that opie-login doesnt even attempt handling that case :) |
| 23:06.38 | treke|home | @(@)##@&@(*&@#(*&@#(*@&@# |
| 23:06.43 | treke|home | no wonder its not working |
| 23:06.54 | treke|home | I'm working on opie-login, but I keep uploading copies of libqpe |
| 23:07.36 | mickeyl | Twiun: ah there you catch me... i know pretty much nothing about kernel stuff and i hope to not increase that knowledge... sorry :)) |
| 23:08.07 | Twiun | mickeyl: I was just wondering why my 2.4.19 build stops dead because those two files aren't there... |
| 23:08.20 | Twiun | actually... |
| 23:08.22 | mickeyl | hmm... kergoth didn't touch this for a long time... may tmm can help |
| 23:08.26 | mickeyl | TMM ? |
| 23:08.46 | Twiun | nah, I scared TMM off a while ago :) |
| 23:09.09 | Twiun | Aha! |
| 23:09.20 | Twiun | methinks there's a bug in the makefile |
| 23:09.56 | tiptone | mickeyl: QPEApplication got my GUI looking like the rest of my apps (flat,blue) but no taskbar icon? |
| 23:10.40 | mickeyl | tiptone: did you write a .desktop file? |
| 23:10.52 | Twiun | mickeyl: yup, missing ; in the 2.4.19 makefile |
| 23:11.02 | tiptone | yes, the icon appears in the Applications tab... |
| 23:11.25 | killefiz | mickeyl: turning jffs2-debug off brings the bootup-time down to like 45 seconds with the simpad |
| 23:11.43 | mickeyl | hmm... does the name of your script (exec='yourName') perfectly match sys.argv[1] when creating QPEApplication ? |
| 23:11.51 | *** join/#openembedded Neo|Home (~neotron@12-206-70-34.client.attbi.com) |
| 23:11.59 | mickeyl | Twiun: maybe take that off from somewhere else |
| 23:12.22 | mickeyl | killefiz: good. just fixing kernel-simpad to include a debug-option |
| 23:12.37 | Twiun | mickeyl: with that semicolon in ,it's building just fine |
| 23:13.11 | *** join/#openembedded Neo|Home (~neotron@12-206-70-34.client.attbi.com) |
| 23:13.27 | Twiun | craploads of warnings :) |
| 23:13.31 | killefiz | mickeyl: could you change the def- accordingly. I don't think that we ever want filesystem debug messages |
| 23:14.08 | killefiz | CONFIG_JFFS2_FS_DEBUG=0 |
| 23:14.25 | mickeyl | well... I want these options while I'm developing that stuff. |
| 23:14.29 | mickeyl | i will |
| 23:15.27 | killefiz | i'm sure that you want debug output - but filesystem debug output is not a good idea unless you're doing fs development (imo) |
| 23:15.55 | mickeyl | actually while we had that jffs2 problem i was happy for every debug line i got. |
| 23:16.51 | killefiz | btw: my image works now except for that i don't have apm - i can only turn the simpad off by using the bootloader |
| 23:17.17 | mickeyl | ?? opie-->suspend |
| 23:17.29 | killefiz | mickeyl: nope - doesn't do anything |
| 23:17.32 | mickeyl | if you have a recent opie cvs this should work |
| 23:17.44 | mickeyl | try echo > proc/sys/pm/suspend on the command line |
| 23:18.40 | killefiz | that works - but pressing the "off" switch or using opie or apm -s dont |
| 23:18.58 | tiptone | mickeyl: after def main(args): i did print argv[1:], all i got was a pair of empty braces... |
| 23:19.02 | mickeyl | killefiz: apm -s can't work because the SIMpad doesn't have apm |
| 23:19.14 | mickeyl | killefiz: if the on/off switch doesn't work, the you have a wrong kernel commandline |
| 23:20.01 | mickeyl | tiptone: try to manually give the QPEApplication what it should accept. QPEApplication( ["skriptname"] ) |
| 23:21.10 | killefiz | i have to revoke that opie->suspend does work |
| 23:21.16 | mickeyl | good. |
| 23:22.11 | killefiz | i haven't changed the kernel config except for the jffs2-debug - so my commandline is probably: |
| 23:22.18 | killefiz | mtdparts=sa1100:512k(boot),1m(kernel),-(root) console=ttySA root=1f02 mem=64M |
| 23:22.32 | tiptone | mickeyl: that did it! wonder why argv[1:] isn't right? |
| 23:22.46 | mickeyl | tiptone: no idea - it should get that command line from the launcher |
| 23:23.16 | mickeyl | killefiz: that looks ok. well, the on/off switch is beyond my control. this is mapped directly in kernel and i did not fuck around with that |
| 23:23.39 | killefiz | it has worked before - with cmartins image - strange |
| 23:23.49 | mickeyl | yep, strange. can't reproduce it here. |
| 23:24.13 | killefiz | are your qte-changes available already? |
| 23:24.31 | mickeyl | all in opie cvs. |
| 23:25.10 | killefiz | so it's changed in opie, not in qte? |
| 23:25.21 | mickeyl | no. the Qt/E patches _are_ in the opie cvs |
| 23:26.47 | killefiz | would it be sufficient if i create and install a new libqte2-ipk? |
| 23:26.52 | mickeyl | yes |
| 23:27.10 | mickeyl | ah well... |
| 23:27.12 | killefiz | btw: http://killefiz.de/simpad_feed/ |
| 23:27.14 | mickeyl | you need to add one line |
| 23:27.20 | mickeyl | in /etc/init.d/opie |
| 23:27.24 | mickeyl | if you want the switches to work |
| 23:28.32 | mickeyl | but otherwise all the changes to support the buttons are in libqte2 |
| 23:28.40 | mickeyl | remember to update the opie cvs in your sources directory |
| 23:29.16 | killefiz | it's updating right now - the changed /etc/init.d/opie should be in bk? |
| 23:29.42 | mickeyl | no. $OPIEDIR/root/etc/init.d/opie |
| 23:29.57 | mickeyl | its _all_ in the opie cvs... if i repeat that line again i'll go nuts :-D |
| 23:30.43 | tiptone | mickeyl: know of any guides to writing Qtopia specific apps? or opie specific once you get the bindings ready? |
| 23:30.53 | treke|home | oh man. my computer is trying to thwarte my debugging efforts at every turn |
| 23:31.23 | Twiun | mickeyl: hrm. the 2.4.19 logo isn't what I expected ;) |
| 23:31.25 | mickeyl | tiptone: not really. the opie team wanted to write a guidelines manual for qtopia and opie development but didn't get to it yet. |
| 23:31.47 | mickeyl | Twiun: no? it's the screenie on openzaurus.org isn't it? if it is, i like it |
| 23:32.04 | tiptone | i've been reading GUI Programming with Python: QT Edition |
| 23:32.09 | treke|home | mickeyl: this time I kept uploading a build from one direcotry while building another :p |
| 23:32.29 | mickeyl | treke: ouch. but rest assured... been there done that hate it |
| 23:32.56 | treke|home | 10 more minutes and I give up to clear my head :p |
| 23:33.00 | mickeyl | Twiun: http://openzaurus.org/oz_website/content/screenies - the first OZ screenshot isn't it ? |
| 23:33.19 | mickeyl | treke: take a break. won't help if you're not concentrated. |
| 23:33.51 | treke|home | good idea |
| 23:34.02 | Twiun | mickeyl: that's exactly what it looks like - but that wasn't what I asked about :) |
| 23:34.13 | chouimat | treke|home: go watch a movie or something |
| 23:34.14 | mickeyl | Twiun: oh ok. i find that pretty cute |
| 23:34.23 | mickeyl | Twiun: you thought a complete background picture yes? |
| 23:34.35 | Twiun | mickeyl: right - with text overlaid |
| 23:34.45 | mickeyl | Twiun: aah that would be REALLY spiffy but i doubt if that's possible... |
| 23:34.51 | tiptone | i've got a taskbar icon now, but it doesn't re-maximize the app... |
| 23:35.00 | Twiun | mickeyl: the gentoo bootup does it - that's why I was wondering |
| 23:35.10 | Twiun | mickeyl: lemme get a screenie from by vmware host |
| 23:35.24 | mickeyl | Twiun: ah yes - that's somewhere done with patched init scripts... nice |
| 23:35.47 | mickeyl | tiptone: hmm... no idea on that offhand. experiment a bit :) |
| 23:35.58 | tiptone | i'm playing =) |
| 23:36.26 | mickeyl | tiptone: ah one thing... be sure to open your main window with QPEApplication.showMainWindow(), not with QApplication's setMainWindow() and show() |
| 23:36.38 | mickeyl | makes a difference |
| 23:36.57 | mickeyl | one of the few rules of opie integration that are used but nowhere written up except in the source *sigh* |
| 23:37.01 | *** join/#openembedded TheMasterMind1 (~aman@000-196-647.area2.spcsdns.net) |
| 23:37.40 | Twiun | mickeyl: http://adorphuye.com/~twiun/mysnap.png |
| 23:38.37 | mickeyl | Twiun: ok. admitted. that looks pretty cool. you can steal the code out of patched init scripts or so if you google for framebuffer picture sysinit or so |
| 23:38.54 | mickeyl | most distribution got this fancy stuff now |
| 23:39.05 | mickeyl | not that it would be necessary... but eye-candy is nice :) |
| 23:39.24 | Twiun | yup, and more professional-looking than pingi scrolling up |
| 23:39.40 | mickeyl | yay |
| 23:39.47 | TheMasterMind1 | eheh |
| 23:39.52 | mickeyl | but hey, pingi in 2.4.19 does NOT scroll up :)) |
| 23:40.01 | mickeyl | or does it? tmm ? |
| 23:40.02 | Twiun | true... but he's so _tiny_! |
| 23:40.08 | Twiun | nah, doesn't scroll |
| 23:40.18 | TheMasterMind1 | no its stays |
| 23:40.24 | Twiun | although... 2.4.19 kernel with 2.4.6 initrd... ouch. |
| 23:40.29 | mickeyl | eeek |
| 23:40.30 | TheMasterMind1 | Twiun: heh |
| 23:40.31 | mickeyl | :) |
| 23:40.46 | TheMasterMind1 | we shoudl atleast get the sharp 2.4.18 working with oz and release that |
| 23:40.46 | Twiun | thank god I got my cf reader working in liunux |
| 23:40.51 | Twiun | linux |
| 23:40.54 | TheMasterMind1 | and then start work on .19 again |
| 23:41.19 | mickeyl | TheMasterMind1: I know what kergoth would say: "this is waste of time" |
| 23:41.21 | _Psycho | all my cf reader seem to be ok under linux detect fine but frooze when i mount it /shrug |
| 23:41.32 | mickeyl | and i feel he's right... but that depends on the timeframe for 2.4.19 |
| 23:41.33 | Twiun | mickeyl: because of 2.5? |
| 23:41.39 | mickeyl | no, because of _our_ 2.4.19 |
| 23:41.54 | Twiun | ah |
| 23:41.55 | Twiun | ok |
| 23:41.59 | TheMasterMind1 | .19 will still take a while |
| 23:42.00 | Twiun | grrr. |
| 23:42.08 | Twiun | damn lcd blanking... |
| 23:42.28 | Twiun | hmm. might be the apm this time |
| 23:55.09 | Twiun | TheMasterMind1: know much about the 2.4.6 collie stuff? |
