| 00:02.21 | *** join/#openembedded noda (~noda@modemcable063.97-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 00:02.22 | noda | Moo! |
| 00:03.08 | kergoth | yo noda |
| 00:03.13 | kergoth | dead around here today |
| 00:03.21 | noda | Boo. |
| 00:03.27 | kergoth | becoming more familiar with python so i can hack on the new buildsystem |
| 00:03.35 | kergoth | pretty spiffy |
| 00:03.59 | noda | Fun. I think I'll try and learn a bit about it after I do this "calculate the n'th prime" function in brainfuck :) |
| 00:04.19 | noda | I've got almost all of it laid out on paper now. I just hope I haven't made a stupid mistake, it's practically impossible to debug ;) |
| 00:04.29 | kergoth | hehe |
| 00:08.00 | *** join/#openembedded Dessimat0r (Dessimat0r@public1-birk1-3-cust91.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 00:08.03 | Dessimat0r | lo all |
| 00:08.17 | Dessimat0r | ibot seen AndyQ |
| 00:08.17 | | andyq <~AndyQ_w@pc-62-31-42-4-hy.blueyonder.co.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #openembedded, 2d 6h 35m 30s ago, saying: 'gtg bbl'. |
| 00:25.30 | *** join/#openembedded treke|laptop (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130) |
| 00:28.16 | *** join/#openembedded treke|laptop (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130) |
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| 00:33.27 | *** join/#openembedded ljp (~ljp@tf0154.peakpeak.com) |
| 01:37.21 | Dessimat0r | look at the speed, look at the strength, power thats like a sun, a flash of light; its might for right, Moldiver our victory |
| 01:43.24 | TheMasterMind1 | eh |
| 02:26.04 | *** join/#openembedded qutopia009 (~tri@128.238.79.94) |
| 02:30.07 | *** join/#openembedded caffeine (~khedspet@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 02:33.41 | qutopia009 | can somebody explain to me how the package manager works exactly or point me to a site that has an explanation? |
| 02:34.37 | qutopia009 | what i don't get is does the manager discover installed packages off the SD card automatically? |
| 02:35.05 | qutopia009 | and also will the manager tell me if i have a newer package that needs to be updated? |
| 02:36.17 | treke|ho2e | qutopia009: no. It only knows about packages installed with it |
| 02:36.25 | *** join/#openembedded aPoX (apox@apox.warez.com) |
| 02:36.31 | *** join/#openembedded Neo|Away (~neotron@207.188.30.40) |
| 02:37.43 | qutopia009 | so say i flashed my Z and i had packages left in the SD it wouldn't know about them? |
| 02:38.06 | kergoth | ipkg-link mount /mnt/card |
| 02:38.08 | kergoth | now it does |
| 02:38.54 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: hmmm. downside to dpkg: it doesnt do relocations |
| 02:39.17 | qutopia009 | another thing when i install stuff on SD i get alot of failed to link i read that it is normal is that so? |
| 02:39.36 | treke|ho2e | qutopia009: you have to reformat your card to ext2 |
| 02:40.00 | qutopia009 | using the format utility? |
| 02:40.13 | treke|ho2e | mkfs |
| 02:41.25 | qutopia009 | also would the manager indicate if i have a newer package sitting on the CF card? |
| 02:41.50 | kergoth | 'the manager'? |
| 02:42.11 | qutopia009 | package manager |
| 02:42.25 | qutopia009 | i m new at this |
| 02:42.30 | treke|ho2e | we can tell |
| 02:42.35 | qutopia009 | lol |
| 02:42.57 | kergoth | newer package than what? |
| 02:43.05 | qutopia009 | then the one installed |
| 02:43.12 | qutopia009 | *than |
| 02:43.33 | kergoth | .. |
| 02:43.34 | kergoth | um |
| 02:43.45 | kergoth | ipkg _will_ hate you if you have the same package on multiple destinations |
| 02:43.56 | TheMasterMind1 | yea, and i'll hate you too |
| 02:44.04 | kergoth | remove it from flash, _then_ relink the one from sd into flash |
| 02:44.14 | TheMasterMind1 | heh, kergoth likes those _'s |
| 02:44.20 | qutopia009 | let's say i have the stable feed packages installed and i deside to update them with unstable would it tell me what i need to update? |
| 02:44.23 | kergoth | gotta emphasize |
| 02:44.27 | kergoth | qutopia009: yes. |
| 02:44.33 | kergoth | qutopia009: go try it |
| 02:44.39 | qutopia009 | ok will do |
| 02:44.40 | qutopia009 | thanks |
| 02:46.15 | qutopia009 | one more as far as formating my SD card to ext2 can somebody give me the steps? |
| 02:46.33 | qutopia009 | i tried using the formatter but it doesn't have the option |
| 02:50.54 | kergoth | qutopia009: read. |
| 02:51.09 | kergoth | qutopia009: zauruszone.com, card howto |
| 02:51.22 | qutopia009 | ok thanks |
| 02:55.29 | effy-kun | kergoth: I can get half of the documentation to you tonight. |
| 02:55.35 | effy-kun | well, tonight, Tokyo time ;) |
| 02:55.49 | effy-kun | I underestimated the rest of it; it's going to take longer for that other stuff too |
| 02:56.03 | effy-kun | should have looked ahead more before estimating the time it would take |
| 03:05.06 | kergoth | hehe, no problem |
| 03:05.40 | kergoth | you have any idea how many times i've underestimated the time on a release? :) |
| 03:06.43 | effy-kun | thanks for your understanding in this highly sensitive matter |
| 03:06.46 | effy-kun | ;) |
| 03:07.39 | effy-kun | also, if you find any inconsistencies which may inhibit your work, let me know. I'm finding register names, etc. for which there is no explanation of. So I think they may not be consistent with naming in the doc. |
| 03:08.40 | kergoth | understood |
| 03:09.00 | kergoth | I'll compare and contrast with the locomo header in the kernel sources |
| 03:09.48 | effy-kun | btw, do you have the ability to view Japanese fonts on your system? |
| 03:10.00 | kergoth | nope, but i can load them |
| 03:11.48 | effy-kun | hmmmm, cause instead of redrawing tons of diagrams, I'd prefer to just translate the Japanese text, and then you can follow it. There isnt much written in Japanese on the diagrams anyways, and the kanji are not hard to discern |
| 03:12.42 | effy-kun | I could also, if fonts are not available, snapshot the translations and drop it in as a graphic |
| 03:15.53 | kergoth | sure, feel free. do it however its easiest for you |
| 03:18.00 | effy-kun | well, it's gotta be readable by you guys ;) |
| 03:21.09 | *** join/#openembedded noda (~noda@modemcable063.97-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 03:21.10 | noda | Moo! |
| 03:22.24 | effy-kun | too much spam? |
| 03:22.26 | effy-kun | ;) |
| 03:22.31 | noda | Way too much. |
| 03:22.53 | effy-kun | I'm not even on it |
| 03:22.54 | noda | Hrm... ooh! ooh! I just had a BRILLIANT idea... |
| 03:23.12 | noda | People sometimes see my emails on the FAQ's... so I should add something to the stylesheet to change the url or something... |
| 03:23.54 | noda | Bah, what's the point, IE won't be able to handle it :( |
| 03:27.30 | TheMasterMind1 | lol |
| 03:27.52 | noda | I'm looking for ideas for my new style. I want to make it REALLY different and cool... |
| 03:28.04 | effy-kun | is a PIM manager something that handles your multiple email address, associated passwords, and other information? |
| 03:28.06 | noda | Maybe I'll put the nav menu on the *top* of the screen. |
| 03:28.45 | kergoth | woot, my first python program works |
| 03:28.46 | kergoth | hehe |
| 03:28.47 | kergoth | whee |
| 03:28.50 | noda | Congrats :) |
| 03:28.52 | TheMasterMind1 | amazing |
| 03:28.56 | noda | I have to get *python* working on my computer :) |
| 03:28.57 | DaJoker | kergoth: excellent! |
| 03:28.58 | kergoth | its a .oe file parser |
| 03:29.03 | *** mode/#openembedded [+o TheMasterMind1] by ChanServ |
| 03:29.04 | kergoth | for the open embedded buildsystem |
| 03:29.08 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:29.16 | kergoth | still learning, but it works |
| 03:29.20 | DaJoker | python rules |
| 03:29.29 | kergoth | yeah, i like it |
| 03:30.14 | kergoth | its like.. readable perl |
| 03:30.22 | DaJoker | LOL |
| 03:30.22 | TheMasterMind1 | haha |
| 03:30.40 | treke|ho2e | too bad it uses whitespace for blocks |
| 03:30.50 | DaJoker | bah.. that's the best part |
| 03:30.59 | kergoth | heh, the lacking format flexibility is why its readable |
| 03:31.00 | kergoth | :) |
| 03:31.03 | kergoth | both a plus and a minus |
| 03:31.15 | treke|ho2e | er lisp |
| 03:31.18 | DaJoker | ew |
| 03:31.19 | kergoth | ~lart treke|ho2e |
| 03:31.33 | treke|ho2e | I dont think they like lisp |
| 03:31.54 | kergoth | now if only i'd stop adding semicolons to the end of my lines |
| 03:32.02 | DaJoker | hehe.. |
| 03:32.22 | noda | Ack! Python doesn't have semicolons at the end of lines??? |
| 03:32.27 | noda | And they call this a programming language? |
| 03:32.28 | kergoth | okay done with python fun for the day, gotta hack on oz itself |
| 03:32.32 | treke|ho2e | ))))))) is a much better way to end a line |
| 03:32.48 | kergoth | noda: unnecessary, python uses whitespace to delimit |
| 03:32.55 | noda | Ick... |
| 03:33.00 | kergoth | noda: indentation on functions is required to establish a block |
| 03:33.09 | noda | Ick ick ick... |
| 03:33.10 | kergoth | noda: there is no { ... } |
| 03:33.20 | kergoth | as a result you cant put your entire program on a single line :) |
| 03:33.27 | kergoth | forces the programmer to adopt a semisane style |
| 03:33.31 | noda | I'm sure it's a good language, and I guess that's a way to force people to adhere to coding standards, but I don't like it... |
| 03:33.42 | kergoth | try it |
| 03:33.46 | kergoth | I hated the idea too |
| 03:33.47 | noda | Yeah, I will some time :) |
| 03:33.49 | kergoth | then i coded something |
| 03:33.53 | noda | But I HATE the idea :) |
| 03:33.53 | kergoth | and guess what |
| 03:33.55 | kergoth | its been.. an hour |
| 03:33.56 | DaJoker | noda: so you like writing code no one can maintain after your are gone.. |
| 03:33.58 | kergoth | and i can still understand it |
| 03:33.59 | kergoth | :D |
| 03:34.08 | DaJoker | ;) |
| 03:34.19 | noda | DaJoker: Quite the contrary. But I don't think WHITESPACE should determine what my code does. |
| 03:34.42 | DaJoker | it's no more different than having { or } determine it |
| 03:34.57 | kergoth | right, except having to use newlines keeps the code semireadable |
| 03:35.06 | DaJoker | yup |
| 03:35.26 | noda | But not being able to put arbitrary newlines... wouldn't that do the opposite? Do you have to put a backslash before newlines that you put in simply to make your code MORE readable? |
| 03:35.34 | kergoth | you can put more newlines |
| 03:35.43 | kergoth | as many as you want |
| 03:35.46 | noda | Without any special escaping? |
| 03:35.50 | TheMasterMind1 | ja |
| 03:35.50 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:35.52 | kergoth | yes |
| 03:35.58 | kergoth | newline ends a statement |
| 03:35.59 | DaJoker | noda: perhaps first you should go and try to use it before making up your mind :) |
| 03:36.04 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 03:36.05 | kergoth | but that could be any arbitrary number of newlines |
| 03:36.19 | kergoth | consider it end with \n+ to revert to regex |
| 03:36.23 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:36.50 | kergoth | and a block requires indentation, but it doesnt matter _how_ you indent |
| 03:37.00 | noda | Some day. Right now I've still got one final display of competence with brainfuck... |
| 03:37.02 | kergoth | so consider a block any arbitrary nonzero amount of whitespace |
| 03:37.22 | TheMasterMind1 | it gets really weird if you mix tabs and spaces for indenting |
| 03:37.23 | noda | And a block inside a block... guess that means you need *more* indenting? |
| 03:37.29 | TheMasterMind1 | like hardwire did with his code |
| 03:37.30 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 03:37.34 | noda | I hate it when people mix tabs and spaces. |
| 03:37.40 | kergoth | yeah |
| 03:37.42 | DaJoker | noda: yes, more indenting |
| 03:37.59 | kergoth | noda: and if you indent off your terminal... you probably need to redesign the code :) |
| 03:38.02 | TheMasterMind1 | i prefer tabs with ts=4 in vim |
| 03:38.09 | DaJoker | TheMasterMind1: bingo |
| 03:38.10 | kergoth | I prefer real tabs |
| 03:38.21 | kergoth | I got used to real tabs doing linux kernel code |
| 03:38.30 | noda | TheMasterMind1: Exactly. I think the only reason people mix tabs and spaces is because they want to take less space in the file... in which case, only use tabs dammit! |
| 03:38.35 | kergoth | which fluctuates between ts=8 space indentation and tab indentation |
| 03:39.04 | noda | I prefer spaces because everybody codes with a different number of tabs so I might as well set the trend by having code that is legible in any editor instantly :P |
| 03:39.06 | TheMasterMind1 | noda: you bitched at me for using tabs instead of spaces in the oz website php.. |
| 03:39.07 | kergoth | noda: well, again, if they have a problem they probably need to rethink the design :) |
| 03:39.20 | kergoth | ? |
| 03:39.24 | noda | TheMasterMind1: I know, in MY code I only do spaces. |
| 03:39.29 | TheMasterMind1 | noda: heh, alright |
| 03:39.30 | kergoth | people generally dont code with a different number of tabs.. |
| 03:39.37 | noda | Erm, s/number/width |
| 03:39.42 | kergoth | a single tab is almost always thee indent of choice when using tabs at all |
| 03:39.55 | TheMasterMind1 | spaces are a bitch |
| 03:40.01 | noda | Yeah, but some people fluxuate. i.e., these lines are done with tabs, these ones with spaces... |
| 03:40.04 | kergoth | a tab is a tab is a tab. |
| 03:40.09 | noda | So you have to guess at the indentation when editing. |
| 03:40.22 | kergoth | ther eis no 'width' unless in the context of using indent to reformat |
| 03:40.31 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:40.54 | noda | I'll make a broad statement and say that at least 25% of code I've read renders improperly on my computer -- because some lines use tabs, others spaces. |
| 03:41.06 | kergoth | yeah, could be |
| 03:41.14 | kergoth | just pick one for gods skae |
| 03:41.15 | kergoth | sake |
| 03:41.18 | noda | So I have to guess at the width of the tab. And then I have to adhere to their standards when contributing... only, apparently they don't have any. |
| 03:41.22 | kergoth | and put vim and emcas directives in the comments |
| 03:41.23 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:41.32 | kergoth | there is no width to a tab. |
| 03:41.36 | TheMasterMind1 | lol |
| 03:41.37 | kergoth | there is a width of an indent with spaces |
| 03:41.40 | kergoth | a tab is a tab is a tab! |
| 03:41.58 | noda | I wish everyone would just put a nice "indent" command in the README file of their code. So any contributers will keep the same format... |
| 03:42.00 | kergoth | its a ascii character for gods skae |
| 03:42.02 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:42.16 | noda | kergoth: You know what I mean :) |
| 03:42.45 | kergoth | yeah i know |
| 03:43.03 | noda | Oh, tomorrow we'll see how that png-to-svg program runs :) |
| 03:43.08 | kergoth | nice |
| 03:43.21 | noda | My cousin's sick, he couldn't go to work today -- and the program's not installed, so vnc wouldn't help. |
| 03:43.37 | kergoth | ah |
| 03:45.32 | noda | Hey, out of curiosity, how many people start up a screen in their .xinit? :) |
| 04:05.57 | kenb | ibot: oz kernel |
| 04:05.58 | | kenb: no idea |
| 04:06.04 | kenb | ibot: oz buildroot |
| 04:06.04 | | i heard oz bk is bk clone http://openzaurus.bkbits.net/buildroot buildroot-oz; cd buildroot-oz; bk -r co -q; cp def-configs/openzaurus .config; make oldconfig; make or see bitkeeper (free download but non-gpl) or see 'oz snapshot' if you don't want to use bk |
| 04:06.13 | kenb | ibot oz snapshot |
| 04:06.13 | | hmm... oz snapshot is http://openzaurus.sourceforge.net/snapshot/ or updated every 4 hours by Navi or this is a snapshot of the bk oz buildroot tree use it to compile your own OZ if you don't want to use BK |
| 04:16.20 | chouimat|away | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^belche************ |
| 04:22.40 | *** part/#openembedded qutopia009 (~tri@128.238.79.94) |
| 04:28.02 | kergoth | chouimat|away: yo |
| 04:29.59 | Shdwdrgn | hey is there a FAQ on compiling the 2.4.19 kernel? I've seen some people mention it on the mailing list, but can't seem to find any info about HOW they're doing it. |
| 04:30.14 | kergoth | you need to pull its bitkeeper repository |
| 04:30.17 | kergoth | http://linux-cl.bkbits.net |
| 04:30.29 | Shdwdrgn | ah cool |
| 04:31.08 | Shdwdrgn | so what's with the archives on sourceforge the last couple days? I'm browsing along at work, and they just go away for a few hours... |
| 04:31.46 | kergoth | bk clone http://linux-cl.bkbits.net/linux-arm-2.4-collie |
| 04:31.51 | kergoth | dunno, sf is often flaky |
| 04:33.14 | Shdwdrgn | hmm... I can tell I'll need to do a lot more reading before having a clue with what to do with the stuff from bitkeeper... Oh well, more time to play with my Z <grin> |
| 04:33.41 | kergoth | i just gave you the command :) |
| 04:33.45 | kergoth | hehe |
| 04:34.17 | Shdwdrgn | oh... is bk a Z command? I haven't heard of it |
| 04:34.33 | kergoth | no |
| 04:34.43 | kergoth | its a source versioning tool |
| 04:34.44 | kergoth | like cvs |
| 04:36.03 | ljp | but worse |
| 04:36.16 | kergoth | bah |
| 04:36.17 | kergoth | :) |
| 04:37.03 | Shdwdrgn | hmm... ok I don't see bk listed on killfiz |
| 04:37.16 | ljp | its for desktop |
| 04:37.22 | Shdwdrgn | so where does it come from? |
| 04:37.38 | kergoth | www.bitkeeper.com |
| 04:37.45 | ljp | search fpr bitkiller. err I mean .. ya that |
| 04:37.56 | Shdwdrgn | haha |
| 04:39.31 | Shdwdrgn | ok |
| 04:39.40 | Shdwdrgn | things are starting to become more clear |
| 04:40.42 | Shdwdrgn | so bk clone... what exactly does that do? Pull an image of the current build to my Z/ Give me a rom image file to flash? Something else that I'm not worthy of knowing? |
| 04:40.58 | kergoth | nonononononono |
| 04:41.03 | kergoth | THIS IS FOR YOUR DESKTOP |
| 04:41.05 | kergoth | as ljp already said |
| 04:41.12 | Shdwdrgn | oh THAT desktop! |
| 04:41.46 | kergoth | you use bk to pull down the kernel sources to a _desktop_ and crosscopmile a kernel for hte Z with them |
| 04:42.12 | Shdwdrgn | ahhhh |
| 04:42.25 | kergoth | but the 2.4.19 kernel on the Z is not ready for primetime |
| 04:42.26 | Shdwdrgn | so this is gui? Not cli? |
| 04:42.33 | ljp | his eyes wide open! |
| 04:42.33 | kergoth | if it was, i wouldve released it already |
| 04:42.34 | kergoth | eh? |
| 04:42.36 | Shdwdrgn | oh it's still fairly unstable? |
| 04:42.45 | kergoth | compiling is a command line process |
| 04:42.48 | Shdwdrgn | gui rather than command-line |
| 04:43.12 | Shdwdrgn | well I PREFER doing it from command line... but I've seen gui ways too |
| 04:43.18 | Shdwdrgn | uh-oh... |
| 04:44.20 | ljp | bk not gui |
| 04:44.26 | Shdwdrgn | I'm a command-line person... none of my servers have X on them because it's a waste of cycles... So when you start talking desktop apps, I get worried |
| 04:44.53 | ljp | desktop as in machine |
| 04:44.54 | kergoth | i'm not talking desktop apps |
| 04:44.58 | kergoth | i'm talking a desktop _machine- |
| 04:45.01 | kergoth | as in, not a zaurus |
| 04:45.08 | kergoth | a x86 box |
| 04:45.39 | Shdwdrgn | the clounds part and a ray of light shines on shdw's head |
| 04:45.54 | ljp | his eyes wide open! |
| 04:46.07 | Shdwdrgn | or is that a lightning bolt about to strike me? <grin> |
| 04:46.19 | kergoth | ljp: that sounds like that one episode of star trek the next generation |
| 04:46.28 | Shdwdrgn | damn we were talking about that movie at work the other day... |
| 04:46.30 | kergoth | you ever see that? |
| 04:46.46 | Shdwdrgn | oh I was thinking of 'Enemy Mine' |
| 04:46.51 | Shdwdrgn | but you're right, that was TNG |
| 04:46.56 | ljp | yes it is |
| 04:47.16 | ljp | with sails unfurled... |
| 04:47.21 | kergoth | yea |
| 04:47.24 | kergoth | i loved that episode |
| 04:47.31 | kergoth | damak, and jalad at tanagra |
| 04:47.33 | kergoth | or whatever |
| 04:47.33 | kergoth | heh |
| 04:47.48 | ljp | heh ya good one |
| 05:01.47 | TheMasterMind1 | ooh |
| 05:01.51 | TheMasterMind1 | we watched that one in school |
| 05:02.01 | kergoth | really? |
| 05:02.01 | kergoth | heh |
| 05:02.06 | kergoth | thats cool |
| 05:02.11 | TheMasterMind1 | it was like one of three movies we watched the entire school year |
| 05:02.13 | TheMasterMind1 | in english |
| 05:02.21 | TheMasterMind1 | there was a lesson that went along with it too |
| 05:02.28 | TheMasterMind1 | but i forgot what it was about |
| 05:02.36 | TheMasterMind1 | i remember the movie though |
| 05:02.51 | TheMasterMind1 | well, not really a movie |
| 05:02.54 | TheMasterMind1 | but you know what i mean |
| 05:02.59 | kergoth | yea |
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| 06:58.02 | DavvOnZ | ibot feed |
| 06:58.03 | | well, feed is a package repository. See http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/IpkgFeeds, http://www.zauruszone.com/feed, http://openzaurus.org/official/{stable,testing,unstable}/feed, or http://www.zauruii.com/zfi |
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| 09:40.10 | troff|zzzZz | ibot next release |
| 09:40.25 | | i don't know, troff|zzzZz |
| 09:52.04 | Twiun | hey troff |
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| 11:43.05 | od1n | hi# |
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| 12:23.14 | Twiun | hey ljp |
| 12:24.59 | ljp | hi |
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| 13:15.19 | Dessimat0r | 'ELC Releases Embedded Linux Standard v1.0' |
| 13:15.28 | Dessimat0r | is this good for the OpenEmbedded project? |
| 13:15.59 | Twiun | could be interesting |
| 13:16.02 | Twiun | any links? |
| 13:16.28 | carsten | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:17.58 | Dessimat0r | http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=54644&cid=5351623 |
| 13:18.38 | Twiun | hmmm, very constructive |
| 13:18.46 | Twiun | is the guy FOR, or against? |
| 13:18.46 | Dessimat0r | thank you ;) |
| 13:19.58 | Dessimat0r | w00t, -1, Troll |
| 13:20.08 | Dessimat0r | my work here is odne |
| 13:20.10 | Dessimat0r | *done |
| 13:20.12 | Dessimat0r | hehe |
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| 15:08.11 | tamash | hi! can anyone tell me where to get this USB kernel patch for version 2.4.20? |
| 15:14.28 | icefox | For what Authentication what does open vs shared mean? |
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| 17:32.29 | RealUlli | hi :-) |
| 17:32.36 | XavierXeon | jo |
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| 17:52.18 | treke | well I imagine I ought to try booting with all kergoths new stuff in there :) |
| 17:52.59 | *** join/#openembedded pb_ (~pb_@dsl-62-3-66-201.zen.co.uk) |
| 17:53.34 | kergoth | its mostly restructuring more than new stuff |
| 17:53.42 | kergoth | it doesnt _use_ the new dev detection yet :) |
| 17:54.28 | treke | kergoth: yeah, but no clue if the restructuring still results in a booting system :) |
| 17:54.37 | kergoth | hehe |
| 17:54.44 | kergoth | let me know :) |
| 17:54.44 | treke | hell I'm not necesarrily sure any of the work I've done in the past week results in a booting systrm |
| 17:55.11 | kergoth | did we ever get you bk push access? |
| 17:55.12 | kergoth | i dont recall |
| 17:55.31 | treke | nope. Just been working with a local tree |
| 17:55.40 | treke | bk is actually growing on me |
| 17:55.50 | treke | as much as I hate to say it :) |
| 17:55.54 | kergoth | hehe, it does that |
| 17:56.07 | kergoth | bk resolv is nice for dealing with conflicts |
| 17:56.12 | kergoth | its gui tools are smooth, not that i ever use em |
| 17:56.37 | treke | the gui tools dont work too well for me, I do most of my development remotly :) |
| 17:56.47 | kergoth | yeah, same here |
| 18:00.15 | treke | ccache didnt just cut a full rebuild down to 5 minutes.... |
| 18:00.38 | kergoth | lol |
| 18:03.41 | treke | kergoth: btw, image_config is pretty cool |
| 18:04.22 | kergoth | needs some tweaking, but i like it |
| 18:04.36 | kergoth | all the config targets work with it |
| 18:04.43 | kergoth | make image_menuconfig or whatever |
| 18:04.57 | kergoth | make image_defconfig will go with defaults, which enables all the ipks |
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| 18:37.04 | schurig | Moo! |
| 18:37.12 | kergoth | hey schurig |
| 18:37.17 | kergoth | I learned python yesterday |
| 18:37.19 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:37.47 | schurig | and pysqlite? |
| 18:37.56 | kergoth | not yet, starting with ithe basics |
| 18:38.04 | kergoth | i mean, i'm still ending lines with semicolons for gods sake |
| 18:38.07 | kergoth | damn habits :) |
| 18:38.26 | kergoth | I threw a really basic .oe parser into the repos |
| 18:40.38 | schurig | I need to register to some dynamic IP service, bk doesn't like my invented hostname, it wants to have an FQDN. So I could as well get a real fqdn ... |
| 18:40.56 | kergoth | heheh |
| 18:41.05 | kergoth | i'm using easydns for my domains atm, which has a dynamic dns client |
| 18:41.19 | RealUlli | schurig: www.dyndns.org |
| 18:41.38 | treke | kergoth: how much you paying? |
| 18:41.45 | RealUlli | schurig: there is even a client packaged for debian... (afair) :-) |
| 18:41.46 | kergoth | too much :) |
| 18:41.53 | treke | how much is too much :) |
| 18:42.05 | kergoth | i dont remember, let me check |
| 18:42.10 | schurig | dyndns was once (is?) cost-free. The dhclient can talk to it. |
| 18:43.10 | RealUlli | schurig: it depends on the service level you want. |
| 18:43.18 | kergoth | treke: $35.00/yr for the domain, and dns service |
| 18:43.30 | treke | kergoth: that aint bad at all |
| 18:43.41 | chouimat | hmmmmm |
| 18:43.46 | kergoth | nah, i know there are cheaper places, but i trust this place |
| 18:44.00 | RealUlli | schurig: afaik, if you only want a simple hostname under dyndns.(org|info) it's free. :-) |
| 18:44.12 | chouimat | treke: for fun? |
| 18:44.22 | treke | kergoth: theres cheaper, but I want good reliable service as long as the price is reasonable :) |
| 18:44.41 | kergoth | indeed |
| 18:45.03 | treke | chouimat: no clue. I'll come in a couple times a month, notice my computer is performing like ass, and then find out mandb has ben running for 1581 hours |
| 18:46.19 | treke | hmmm maybe not a couple of times a month, since its been supposedly running for 68 days. |
| 18:49.04 | treke | wonder if there is a symlink loop somewhere :) |
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| 18:52.48 | schurig | got the domain, now I need to install some client :-) |
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| 18:57.54 | kergoth | I should get a new domain |
| 18:58.42 | kergoth | i only own openzaurus.org, openembedded.{net,org,com}, and digitalnemesis.net, which is too long |
| 18:58.58 | treke | and you want _more_ |
| 18:59.08 | treke | I only own three and the bills are a pain :) |
| 18:59.39 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:59.46 | kergoth | the openembedded ones hurt :) |
| 19:00.13 | treke | luckilly I'm gonna dump one of mine this year :) |
| 19:00.28 | kergoth | schurig: out of curiosity, why tmpfs vs ramfs? |
| 19:01.43 | schurig | ramfs eats ram, but get's still cached. tmpfs holds the data in the same blocks that are used for cached. So tmpfs is for me. |
| 19:02.11 | schurig | But you cannot do something like dd if=image of=/dev/tmpfs, for this you need ramfs |
| 19:02.27 | kergoth | and tmpfs has slightly more overhead |
| 19:02.32 | kergoth | but tmpfs you can limit size |
| 19:02.47 | schurig | kergoth: more overhead? why? |
| 19:03.07 | kergoth | From what i've heard it uses slightly more ram |
| 19:03.11 | RealUlli | schurig: ipcheck.py is a really nice client (IMHO) |
| 19:03.15 | kergoth | hardly noticable on a device like the Z anyway |
| 19:03.16 | schurig | ramfs has more overhead. And ramfs you can limit in size. Can you limit tmpfs as well (without quota)? |
| 19:04.12 | schurig | In ramfs you set aside, say, 8 MB of ram for the harddisk. So it's size limited by design. But when you access files, the buffer code of Linux copies data from ram and put's it into it's buffer cache (you can verify this with vmstat). So it has more overhead. |
| 19:04.39 | schurig | s/harddisk/ramdisk/ |
| 19:05.05 | pb_ | schurig: I think you may be thinking of /dev/ram, rather than ramfs. |
| 19:06.44 | Twiun | cool... that seems to have gone through ok |
| 19:06.57 | schurig | kergoth: you may be right. It's confusing. |
| 19:07.04 | kergoth | agreed |
| 19:07.19 | schurig | http://www.faqchest.com/linux/KERNEL/kern-01/kern-0104/kern-010495/kern01042614_20610.html |
| 19:07.51 | Twiun | kergoth: I'm sure you or someone else will let me know if I've broken things :) |
| 19:09.20 | schurig | http://www.handhelds.org/pipermail/familiar/2002-January/004963.html is actually better |
| 19:09.55 | schurig | if ramfs doesn't show up when you df, than this could be a reason (for me) not to use it |
| 19:10.21 | treke | doesnt it come up under df -a? |
| 19:10.58 | treke | similar to how /proc doesnt appear in df |
| 19:11.22 | schurig | H.Peter Anvin said in one linux-kernel message, that ramfs does not do any accouning, so it won't give back any usage, and that's waht df is used for. |
| 19:11.38 | schurig | It would show up in "mount" or cat /proc/mounts |
| 19:13.50 | treke | nope, no results in df |
| 19:15.29 | treke | hmmm make image doesnt like me |
| 19:16.20 | treke | looks like it tries getting something out of bitkeeper and fails |
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| 19:22.36 | treke | hmmm. why is wonka being stored in buildroot? |
| 19:25.02 | Twiun | treke you do mean the sources and not that wonka has somehoe been homed off the root dir, right? |
| 19:25.47 | treke | actually it looks like its just qteawt |
| 19:26.14 | Twiun | yeah, the actual wonka sources should be obtained by cvs |
| 19:31.09 | kergoth | treke: does familiar use tmpfs or ramfs for its dynamically sized ramdisks? |
| 19:31.21 | treke | ramfs |
| 19:32.27 | kergoth | okay, just checking |
| 19:32.43 | treke | wait |
| 19:32.45 | treke | tmpfs |
| 19:32.51 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:34.49 | Neo|Work | isn't ramfs the one which has static size? |
| 19:34.55 | kergoth | no |
| 19:35.01 | Neo|Work | rather than tmpfs which has a max size but only uses as much as is needdd... |
| 19:35.05 | kergoth | both ramfs and tmpfs dynamically size |
| 19:35.09 | kergoth | but tmpfs can have a max size set |
| 19:35.11 | kergoth | and tmpfs shows up in df |
| 19:35.33 | Neo|Work | ok |
| 19:35.40 | kergoth | and tmpfs has slightly higher overhead, but who knows if its measurable, much less noticable |
| 19:35.46 | kergoth | :) |
| 19:36.59 | treke | kergoth: lemme put it this way. its in /etc/fstab as tmpfs |
| 19:37.11 | treke | who knows what it's actually mounted as :) |
| 19:37.33 | treke | I said ramfs since I looked at my ipaq, forgetting that it has no resemblence to familiar :) |
| 19:37.40 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:38.28 | kergoth | treke: how are you handling /boot/params? |
| 19:38.34 | kergoth | treke: no oz packages touch it.. |
| 19:38.42 | treke | kergoth: Its unneeded |
| 19:38.55 | pb_ | kergoth: I don't think any familiar packages provide it at the moment either, though this is set to change. |
| 19:38.58 | treke | havent needed to touch it yet, but I will when it comes nvrd time |
| 19:39.38 | treke | bootldr's defaults seem suffiecient the boot the system atm |
| 19:39.50 | pb_ | kergoth: however, we will probably arrange things so that the file is not actually owned by any package. |
| 19:39.51 | kergoth | pb_: ah |
| 19:40.00 | pb_ | treke: see http://handhelds.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=587 for one issue. |
| 19:40.23 | treke | pb_: might be a good idea to do something similar for /etc/passwd |
| 19:41.01 | pb_ | treke: indeed. also /etc/modules; we have just recently experienced the hilarious results that currently ensue when you let ipkg upgrade familiar-base. :-/ |
| 19:41.06 | kergoth | how ab out patching sysvinit? its easy enough |
| 19:41.12 | kergoth | for the console situation that is |
| 19:41.50 | kergoth | pb_: this falls right into the device specific bits at runtime |
| 19:41.51 | pb_ | another file that currently has problems is /etc/ld.so.cache, but I would rather see that one booted off into ramdisk anyway (see http://handhelds.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=528) |
| 19:41.54 | kergoth | since we need to adapt things |
| 19:41.58 | kergoth | like fstab, modules, etc |
| 19:42.17 | pb_ | kergoth: patching sysvinit is certainly necessary, but I'm not sure it is sufficient. |
| 19:42.18 | kergoth | OZ doesnt even include ldconfig by default |
| 19:42.24 | kergoth | just has a really long ass LD_LIBRARY_PATH |
| 19:42.25 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:42.28 | pb_ | heh |
| 19:42.37 | kergoth | but yeah, you'd see a problem with say ssh for example |
| 19:42.43 | kergoth | since the startup scripts dont get that var |
| 19:42.58 | kergoth | but that could be easily dealt with |
| 19:42.59 | pb_ | kergoth: we try to avoid LD_LIBRARY_PATH because of the performance issues with hwcap. |
| 19:43.07 | kergoth | ah, yeah |
| 19:43.20 | pb_ | though we could just as easily patch glibc locally, since we don't actually _use_ hwcap for anything right now. |
| 19:43.27 | kergoth | ldconfig is fucking big |
| 19:43.32 | kergoth | we should make a busybox ldconfig or something :D |
| 19:43.47 | pb_ | kergoth: or link it dynamically, which I still believe is not a totally crazy idea :-} |
| 19:43.54 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:43.59 | Neo|Work | kergoth: dude, it is big. 400 KB on x86. wtf? |
| 19:44.07 | pb_ | Neo|Work: it's statically linked with glibc |
| 19:44.07 | kergoth | Neo|Work: hehe |
| 19:44.10 | kergoth | yep |
| 19:44.18 | Neo|Work | pb_: hurm. it is indeed |
| 19:44.26 | kergoth | as long as /lib is in its rpath, and you dont fuck up your libc, you're golden |
| 19:44.29 | kergoth | heh |
| 19:45.04 | pb_ | kergoth: right. |
| 19:45.04 | kergoth | tiredddd needdd caffeineee |
| 19:45.28 | Neo|Work | I was about to suggest gzexe but that really isn't valuable since it's already compressed |
| 19:46.35 | pb_ | kergoth: the only situation where you might come to a sticky end is upgrades of libc itself. I think you can avoid some of that by strategic coding in the libc postinst (eg invoke ldconfig using /etc/ld-linux.so.2 --library-path ...), and to be honest most familiar/oe users are unlikely to be in the business of upgrading libc in place very often. |
| 19:46.50 | kergoth | ahh good point |
| 19:47.05 | kergoth | thankfully libc isnt a package that should be changing very often |
| 19:47.22 | pb_ | if your flash is anywhere near full (which it often is with only 16MB), attempting to upgrade big libs in place is usually doomed from the outset. |
| 19:47.25 | kergoth | and of course you need a fair amount of free space for in place upgrades anyway, since the libs are usually in use at the time |
| 19:47.29 | kergoth | right, exactly |
| 19:47.29 | kergoth | heh |
| 19:48.22 | kergoth | people try upgrading all of opie while its in flash.. we're talking libc, qt/e, and opie libs in use.. thats like fucking 5 megs alone |
| 19:49.30 | pb_ | yup, quite. it's usually much easier for people to just flash a new root image for major upgrades. |
| 19:53.19 | treke | shoot. this image isnt going to work |
| 19:55.03 | treke | I can say this with authority because there is no kernel installed :) |
| 19:55.31 | pb_ | heh |
| 19:56.52 | RealUlli | pb_: definitely. you just have to make sure you back up everything before you flash... ;-) |
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| 20:20.49 | kergoth | treke: forget to enable it in the image config? |
| 20:22.10 | treke | kergoth: nope. I screwed up my build. rebuilding :) |
| 20:22.14 | kergoth | ah |
| 20:22.31 | treke | the old rm ipks/* rootfs/* -rf didnt work as well as it used to :) |
| 20:22.54 | kergoth | ah |
| 20:23.54 | treke | not a big deal. I dont have all that much time to sit and work on it right now, so ican afford to do make clean |
| 20:36.26 | kergoth | pb_: do you know how to force overwrite of an individual conffile for a specific package version? |
| 20:36.35 | kergoth | pb_: er, do you know if its possible, i mean |
| 20:37.53 | pb_ | kergoth: I don't think you can. |
| 21:02.32 | kergoth | pb_: damn, was hoping.. thatd prevent lots of echo > /that/conffile crap in postinsts.. i hate that |
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| 21:15.35 | treke | kergoth: hrrm. the controldata stuff in ipkg-make-kernel-packages doesnt seem to add my postinst script |
| 21:18.25 | kergoth | treke: you mean your local versions in the dirs you passed on the commandline, or the data in scripts/* |
| 21:18.29 | kergoth | treke: ? |
| 21:20.16 | treke | local version that I passed on the command line |
| 21:20.49 | treke | I'm doing a bit of debugging of the ipkg-make-kernel-packages scripts at the moment. It looks like it sees the file and should be adding it to the control_files list |
| 21:26.44 | treke | hmmm. I think I see the problem :) |
| 21:26.57 | treke | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:26.57 | treke | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:26.57 | treke | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:26.57 | treke | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:27.58 | treke | The last control file processed is always going to be the one that is cat'd, and that's the scripts/* one |
| 21:29.03 | kergoth | the paths on the cmdline were supposed to be the last ones in the list |
| 21:29.07 | kergoth | then it'd take the final one |
| 21:29.13 | kergoth | feel free to alter the logic |
| 21:29.35 | treke | yeah, I did some printf debugging and the scripts comes out last :) |
| 21:31.03 | treke | lets see if this works |
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| 21:54.18 | qutopia009 | how do i format my SD card so that everything gets erased? |
| 21:54.30 | kergoth | whee, big wonka changeset |
| 21:54.45 | kergoth | qutopia009: mkfs. |
| 21:54.59 | kergoth | qutopia009: read the card howto on zauruszone.com, as i believe i told you yesterday |
| 21:55.02 | qutopia009 | i tried that but then i still have folders with data in there |
| 21:55.14 | kergoth | .. |
| 21:55.23 | kergoth | then you screwed it up |
| 21:55.29 | kergoth | umount /mnt/card |
| 21:55.38 | kergoth | mkfs.ext2 /dev/mmcda1 |
| 21:55.40 | kergoth | mount /mnt/card |
| 21:55.49 | kergoth | now /mnt/card is empty |
| 21:55.51 | qutopia009 | ok and that should give me a clear card? |
| 21:55.53 | qutopia009 | ok |
| 21:55.59 | kergoth | yes, thats what the howto says to do |
| 21:56.03 | kergoth | run mkfs on the card after unmounting it |
| 21:56.05 | Twiun | kergoth: glad you liked it :) |
| 21:56.12 | qutopia009 | ok |
| 21:57.34 | kergoth | i have way too many trees |
| 21:58.45 | treke | cut them down |
| 21:58.52 | kergoth | saw that coming |
| 21:58.54 | kergoth | :) |
| 21:59.45 | kergoth | Twiun: takepatch: 465 new revisions, 0 conflicts in 228 files |
| 21:59.49 | kergoth | heh |
| 21:59.54 | kergoth | our tree is getting big |
| 22:00.43 | *** join/#openembedded nelson (~nelson@desk.crynwr.com) |
| 22:00.53 | kergoth | nelson: welcome |
| 22:00.58 | nelson | yo. |
| 22:01.11 | nelson | treke: a little birdie told me that you have OE boot images for the iPAQ. |
| 22:01.32 | treke | nelson: yessir. Making a fresh one now. I dont have any reasonably recent one |
| 22:01.55 | nelson | I'd like to give it a try.... |
| 22:02.14 | nelson | kergoth: what about sd/mmc support? |
| 22:02.23 | nelson | Oh, wait, that was *don't* ask. Oops. |
| 22:02.24 | Twiun | kergoth: I suppose I should really have a separate repository (cvs/etc) for qteawt |
| 22:02.38 | kergoth | Twiun: start a SF project :) |
| 22:03.26 | Twiun | kergoth: I could always use the Zaurus community cvs |
| 22:03.32 | kergoth | yeah, tha ttoo |
| 22:04.02 | kergoth | myself, i dont like relying on sharp or hp |
| 22:04.12 | Twiun | I was about to mention that |
| 22:04.27 | Twiun | anyways, best be off... she really is starting to nag |
| 22:04.36 | treke | at least handhelds.org is a bit independent of hp |
| 22:04.36 | Twiun | g'night |
| 22:04.43 | kergoth | yeah |
| 22:04.44 | kergoth | night Twiun |
| 22:04.55 | nelson | treke: the theory is that it's completely so. |
| 22:05.08 | nelson | treke: only way to prove that theory, though, is to push it. |
| 22:05.50 | treke | no point in pushing until theres good reason to do so :) |
| 22:07.13 | NetNut404_work | anyone here use gpe-mail2? |
| 22:08.06 | pb_ | NetNut404_work: you might have better luck in #gpe |
| 22:09.02 | NetNut404_work | thanks |
| 22:11.59 | nelson | pb_: I got the impression that he's trying to do this under OpenEmbedded.... |
| 22:12.25 | pb_ | nelson: shouldn't make a great deal of difference really. |
| 22:12.35 | nelson | kergoth: by the way, "OpenEmbedded" is better a description than the name of the project. You'd never be able to get a trademark on "OpenEmbedded" for example. |
| 22:13.29 | kergoth | why? too generic? |
| 22:13.41 | NetNut404_work | so what is a good simple program to test to see if gtk is working on my zaurus? |
| 22:13.44 | pb_ | nelson: there have been various initiatives to run GPE under OZ, but none of them (to my knowledge) have really come to fruition. But, in principle, all you need is a working X server and you should be in business. |
| 22:14.06 | kergoth | yeah, theres not a problem. we have a working X server, just not much of a Zaurus X community atm, nobody maintains the packages |
| 22:14.21 | nelson | kergoth: too descriptive. A trademark has to be more than merely descriptive. |
| 22:15.23 | kergoth | well, the logo is being designed atm :) |
| 22:16.01 | pb_ | NetNut404_work: almost any gpe program should work. gpe-mail just happens not to be a good example. |
| 22:16.16 | pb_ | NetNut404_work: maybe try gpe-edit2, which is about as simple as they come. |
| 22:17.27 | NetNut404_work | hmm I am not getting a Buss Error anymore |
| 22:17.55 | pb_ | well, I guess that's progress. |
| 22:17.57 | NetNut404_work | now I get lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0) |
| 22:18.05 | pb_ | NetNut404_work: sounds like you need a newer libc6. |
| 22:18.17 | kergoth | yep, we're still on 2.2.4 due to building oZ w/ gcc2 |
| 22:18.20 | pb_ | try the one from familiar, perhaps. |
| 22:18.26 | kergoth | yeah, the familiar libc should work jsut fine |
| 22:18.43 | NetNut404_work | hmm |
| 22:18.48 | treke | familiar is 2.3.1 iirc |
| 22:20.47 | pb_ | that's right. |
| 22:28.43 | *** join/#openembedded bug1 (~bug1@c17156.sunsh3.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 22:30.05 | *** join/#openembedded chouimat (~dieu@modemcable120.184-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 22:30.05 | *** mode/#openembedded [+o chouimat] by ChanServ |
| 22:30.55 | chouimat | hi |
| 22:31.04 | NetNut404_work | hello |
| 22:32.14 | NetNut404_work | so what version of lib6 is in oz 3.0 by default ? |
| 22:32.30 | kergoth | 2.2.4 |
| 22:32.37 | kergoth | because we do the builds with gcc2, which cant build libc6 2.3.1 |
| 22:33.14 | NetNut404_work | so if I install a newer libc6 will that cause a problem? |
| 22:33.32 | kergoth | shouldnt |
| 22:33.39 | pb_ | the only problem I know of is that familiar libc is built --enable-kernel=2.4.19 |
| 22:33.45 | pb_ | er, 2.4.18 rather. |
| 22:33.51 | pb_ | so, it won't work if you are running 2.4.6 for example. |
| 22:34.18 | NetNut404_work | ah |
| 22:34.28 | pb_ | this is already vexing the jornada guys, so I might change it to 2.4.0 or something next time around. |
| 22:35.11 | treke | what is the jornada running? |
| 22:35.26 | pb_ | 2.4.n, for some small n. Maybe 2.4.16 or so. |
| 22:35.56 | pb_ | You wouldn't think it would be very difficult to update to 2.4.19, but apparently every attempt to do so has ended in dismal failure. |
| 22:36.19 | *** join/#openembedded noda (~noda@modemcable063.97-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 22:36.20 | noda | Moo! |
| 22:36.32 | NetNut404_work | bummer |
| 22:39.06 | kergoth | pb_: odd.. we didnt have any problems upgrading to 2.4.19 on the Z, other than the SD support |
| 22:39.45 | pb_ | kergoth: apparently 2.4.19 on jornada has horrendous stability problems and nobody can figure out what is wrong. |
| 22:40.16 | kergoth | eek, I hate those hard to isolate ones |
| 22:40.43 | NetNut404_work | I hate it when ipkg seems to have gone asleep |
| 22:40.51 | noda | I hate a lot of things :) |
| 22:41.16 | kergoth | NetNut404_work: how much free space do you have free in flash? |
| 22:42.23 | NetNut404_work | /dev/mtdblock4 14464 11488 2976 79% / |
| 22:42.37 | kergoth | should be enough |
| 22:42.43 | kergoth | maybe a bug in the old jffs2.. we are on 2.4.6 after all |
| 22:42.47 | NetNut404_work | finally finished.. although it did not make a difference on my error |
| 22:43.52 | NetNut404_work | /mnt/card/usr/bin/gpe-mail |
| 22:43.52 | NetNut404_work | /mnt/card/usr/bin/gpe-mail: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by /usr/lib/libglib-2.0.so.0) |
| 22:44.05 | NetNut404_work | what does that mean? |
| 22:44.11 | kergoth | NetNut404_work: install glib2 from OZ |
| 22:44.14 | kergoth | NetNut404_work: rather than the familiar one |
| 22:44.37 | noda | Ooh, gpe works on OZ? |
| 22:44.48 | kergoth | he's trying to run it |
| 22:44.51 | kergoth | it should work just fine |
| 22:44.59 | kergoth | we dont have gtk packages yet .. havent bothered to add them |
| 22:45.03 | kergoth | just hasnt been much demand |
| 22:45.04 | noda | Oh... |
| 22:45.11 | noda | gtk or gtk2? |
| 22:45.26 | kergoth | whatever gpe uses /me doesnt pay attention |
| 22:45.31 | pb_ | gtk2 |
| 22:45.32 | kergoth | pb_: gpe use gtk or gtk2? |
| 22:45.33 | kergoth | :) |
| 22:45.34 | kergoth | thanks |
| 22:45.36 | kergoth | heh |
| 22:45.37 | NetNut404_work | kergoth: woudn't that be puting glib2 back to what it was |
| 22:45.43 | kergoth | NetNut404_work: eh? |
| 22:45.45 | kergoth | NetNut404_work: 'was'? |
| 22:45.53 | kergoth | NetNut404_work: OZ includes glib out of the box, not glib2. |
| 22:45.56 | kergoth | so i dont know what you mean |
| 22:46.04 | NetNut404_work | ahh |
| 22:46.15 | pb_ | Virtually the whole of gpe is built against glibc 2.3 nowadays. Trying to run it with glibc 2.2 is going to be very painful indeed, I expect. |
| 22:46.26 | noda | The screenshots look quite a bit like Opie... |
| 22:46.31 | kergoth | yeah, we'd need to build some glibc 2.2 packages for OZ |
| 22:46.37 | kergoth | or finally make the switch to glibc 2.3.1 |
| 22:46.44 | noda | What's holding us back from the switcH? |
| 22:46.48 | kergoth | but again i need to not build the c++ apps w/ the gcc3 toolchain |
| 22:46.51 | kergoth | noda: you cant build 2.3.1 w/ gcc2 |
| 22:46.55 | noda | Oh. |
| 22:46.56 | noda | Ick. |
| 22:47.03 | kergoth | noda: and i havent tried building just hte base with gcc3 and the rest w/ gcc2 cause its a pain |
| 22:47.14 | noda | Yeah, I can imagine. |
| 22:47.16 | treke | kergoth: thats something we need in the buildsysem anyways |
| 22:47.27 | treke | for the kernel in gcc3 builds |
| 22:47.53 | nelson | treke: I hope you remember that I'm holding my breath waiting for your boot rom images.... |
| 22:48.04 | treke | nelson: I do remember |
| 22:48.13 | treke | would you like non booting ones? :) |
| 22:48.26 | kergoth | treke: the new builsystem will facilitate tagging a package as needing a certain gcc version |
| 22:50.09 | NetNut404_work | kergoth: where do I fing glib2 ? not the official feed right? |
| 22:50.34 | kergoth | NetNut404_work: it will be in unstable when i update it.. |
| 22:50.48 | kergoth | NetNut404_work: but it doesnt matter, because your gtk and gpe will have been built against glibc 2.3 |
| 22:51.18 | pb_ | I'll probably spin some new glibc 2.3 packages for familiar over the weekend, now the first 2.3.2 prerelease is out, and I'll try to remember to make those more permissive of kernel version. So that might help with the immediate gpe problem. |
| 22:51.46 | noda | What's new with 2.3.2? Bugfixes? |
| 22:51.55 | kergoth | 2.3.2? suppose we should update our libc6-2.3.1 build |
| 22:52.00 | NetNut404_work | kergoth:so there insn't a glib2 to install currently then? |
| 22:52.12 | kergoth | NetNut404_work: even if there was, you'd still be fucked |
| 22:52.14 | kergoth | NetNut404_work: so deal with it |
| 22:52.32 | kergoth | NetNut404_work: wait for pb's new libc6 2.3.x, or wait for OZ gtk2 and gpe packages |
| 22:52.36 | NetNut404_work | hehe ok.. just makin sure I understood ya |
| 22:53.01 | pb_ | noda: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/libc-alpha/2003-02/msg00164.html |
| 22:53.15 | *** part/#openembedded qutopia009 (~tri@128.238.79.94) |
| 22:53.49 | kergoth | pb_: dare i ask how many mailing lists you're on? |
| 22:53.50 | kergoth | pb_: ;) |
| 22:53.58 | noda | lol |
| 22:54.06 | pb_ | kergoth: lots :-/ |
| 22:54.16 | noda | Ooh, lots of changes :) |
| 22:54.42 | kergoth | oo |
| 22:54.42 | pb_ | kergoth: there's only about ten that I actually read regularly though. |
| 22:54.45 | kergoth | nptl? hmm |
| 22:54.47 | noda | What are NPTL threads? Are they any good? |
| 22:54.49 | noda | rofl |
| 22:54.53 | pb_ | yes, but not on arm. |
| 22:55.01 | noda | I was thinking on x86 anyway |
| 22:55.14 | kergoth | ah, so stick to linuxthreads for the arm packages then, k |
| 22:55.59 | pb_ | yeah. |
| 22:56.13 | noda | Any resource to check them out for x86? (Web page with explanations, etc...) |
| 22:56.17 | pb_ | nptl needs a reserved TLS register, which the arm abi doesn't have. |
| 22:56.26 | kergoth | ah |
| 22:56.37 | pb_ | ibot, search google for nptl |
| 22:56.51 | kergoth | yep, thers a spiffy pdf |
| 22:57.00 | pb_ | bizarrely, ibot doesn't seem to have located that pdf. |
| 22:57.11 | kergoth | yeah, it was first link on my google search.. odd |
| 22:57.13 | pb_ | however, I happen to know that it is located at http://people.redhat.com/drepper/nptl-design.pdf :-) |
| 22:57.25 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:57.27 | noda | people.redhat.com/drepper/nptl-design.pdf? |
| 22:57.29 | noda | Oh, heh :P |
| 22:57.44 | noda | ibot sees completely different stuff than I do on google :P |
| 22:57.45 | | noda: I give up, what is it? |
| 23:05.28 | kergoth | noda: hows the new style coming along? |
| 23:06.39 | noda | kergoth: Kinda stopped right now as my mind wakes up after 8 and a half hours solid of school. |
| 23:06.47 | noda | Including a quiz that I think I did all right on... |
| 23:07.05 | kergoth | ah gotcha |
| 23:07.17 | kergoth | I keep putting off writing all the new startup scripts |
| 23:07.20 | noda | I need some inspiration for the style. But I think I've got a bit of it decided. |
| 23:07.40 | noda | For example, the heading will be much smaller. And the nav may be drop-down menus at the top of the screen. |
| 23:07.55 | noda | And the whole nav menu may "follow' as you scroll down. |
| 23:08.35 | noda | Dunno what to do about the login menu and latest oz stuff though. |
| 23:08.51 | noda | I may drop the latest oz thing, and put the admin login as a similar thing at the bottom of the page, which follows the mouse. |
| 23:09.14 | kergoth | follows _the mouse_? |
| 23:09.21 | noda | Erm, the view. |
| 23:09.24 | kergoth | dood, if anything follows my mouse, i'm going to shoot you |
| 23:09.26 | kergoth | :) |
| 23:09.27 | noda | rofl |
| 23:09.43 | noda | You won't be able to aim at me because it'll be blocking your view! :P |
| 23:10.01 | kergoth | hehe |
| 23:10.18 | noda | Anyway, the idea is, the whole left side of the site will be *gone*, and the height of the header (/footer) will remain the same, giving all that extra space to content. |
| 23:10.28 | kergoth | spiffy |
| 23:10.28 | noda | But I suck at styles. So it'll end up being ugly. |
| 23:10.36 | kergoth | get a GUI/interface guy |
| 23:11.03 | noda | Yeah, I was thinking of that. I do know a couple of people at my school who are in graphic design, and one's my cousin's girlfriend... :P |
| 23:11.24 | kergoth | a zombie writing CSS |
| 23:11.28 | kergoth | wow |
| 23:11.29 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:11.29 | treke | oh no. I've started an undead army of web designers |
| 23:11.30 | noda | kergoth: oh, hey, guess what -- somebody wrote me today to say that my site *crashes* safari and konqueror. |
| 23:11.36 | noda | rofl |
| 23:11.40 | kergoth | lol |
| 23:11.52 | noda | Does anybody here use Safari? |
| 23:12.02 | noda | My version of Konqueror doesn't crash, either on my computer or on my Z... |
| 23:12.04 | kergoth | i've never even heard of it |
| 23:12.16 | noda | kergoth: It's Apple's new browser, based on KHTML |
| 23:12.31 | kergoth | ah |
| 23:22.19 | TheMasterMind1 | have they gotten the changes apple made to khtml into konq cvs? |
| 23:22.32 | noda | Dunno |
| 23:23.49 | nelson | treke: dhtml is a bad idea. modpython is a good idea. |
| 23:24.13 | nelson | treke: nonbooting boot images? I like it! |
| 23:24.42 | noda | Hrm, is that kinda like the solar-powered flashlight? |
| 23:26.55 | *** join/#openembedded melanie|too (~melanie@elf.thecommune.org.uk) |
| 23:28.36 | noda | Whoa, rock on. I just crashed every program on my desktop at the same time :) |
| 23:28.43 | kergoth | smooth |
| 23:29.01 | noda | Note to self: don't manually enter a --startup-id in command-line programs :) |
| 23:30.05 | treke | kergoth: grrrrrr |
| 23:30.15 | kergoth | treke: probs? |
| 23:30.32 | kergoth | the local override of package control data not working still? |
| 23:30.32 | treke | not yet :) |
| 23:30.41 | kergoth | it was a pretty simple concept.. |
| 23:30.41 | treke | just a minor tweek |
| 23:30.42 | kergoth | hehe |
| 23:30.58 | treke | in the current system it outputs exit 0 right before my code :p |
| 23:31.08 | kergoth | er |
| 23:31.10 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:31.18 | treke | in all fairness it hasnt taken much work. Just me being distracted by real work |
| 23:31.28 | kergoth | yea |
| 23:31.34 | kergoth | know how that is |
| 23:31.53 | treke | Boss: cant you see I'm busy doing oe work?! |
| 23:32.05 | kergoth | hehe |
| 23:36.23 | *** join/#openembedded NetNut404 (~NetNut404@gateway.matrixcos.com) |
| 23:36.53 | TheMasterMind1 | wow |
| 23:36.56 | TheMasterMind1 | its netnut |
| 23:37.03 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 23:37.08 | Dessimat0r | wouldn't the undead favour black backgrounds over white ones, and spinning .gif skulls? |
| 23:37.19 | noda | ew |
| 23:37.22 | Dessimat0r | rofl |
| 23:37.30 | NetNut404_work | TheMasterMind1: Heya |
| 23:37.51 | NetNut404_work | TheMasterMind1: Got a replacement zaurus finally for the one that was stolen |
| 23:38.12 | TheMasterMind1 | stolen eh |
| 23:38.13 | TheMasterMind1 | that sucks |
| 23:38.28 | Dessimat0r | yeah :/ |
| 23:38.51 | NetNut404 | yeah I was crushed |
| 23:39.10 | Dessimat0r | Hey, but at least I have 2 Zauruses instead of 1 now ;) Joking ;) |
| 23:39.52 | NetNut404 | so I am still back to trying to get a good mailer working on the Z |
| 23:39.57 | NetNut404 | LOL |
| 23:40.04 | treke | NetNut404: mutt |
| 23:40.57 | NetNut404 | Yaah. but something gui would be nice |
| 23:42.20 | NetNut404 | I will give mutt shot later |
| 23:44.03 | NetNut404 | well heading out of wireless range tayal |
| 23:53.17 | kenb | http://saq.cx/stuff/jap_skirt.html |
| 23:56.14 | chouimat | hi kenb |
| 23:57.11 | *** join/#openembedded kostya (~kostya@sense-sea-focal-dynamic-1-18.oz.net) |
| 23:58.00 | kostya | anyone know why putting my zaurus in the cradle hangs both my zaurus and my Redhat 8 machine? |
| 23:58.18 | treke | kostya: its because you should be using debian |
| 23:58.25 | kostya | hehe--ok |
| 23:58.44 | kostya | so what would be a stop gap until i come to my senses and switch? |
| 23:58.59 | treke | good question |
| 23:59.27 | kostya | It wasn't doing it before--it was working. |
| 23:59.54 | kostya | I was wondering if it was because I didn't have the QTopia Desktop open this time |