| 00:02.55 | sheenmaster | kergoth: how is c700 support in OZ? |
| 00:03.01 | sheenmaster | kergoth: worth buying one? |
| 00:03.09 | kergoth | sheenmaster: I'll be done in a week or so |
| 00:03.15 | kergoth | sheenmaster: it works now, just working on adding the Zoom support |
| 00:03.23 | kergoth | and need to retest on the fly rotation |
| 00:03.35 | sheenmaster | kergoth: can rotation be disabled? |
| 00:03.39 | kergoth | ? |
| 00:03.46 | kergoth | i dont understand the question |
| 00:03.54 | kergoth | when you flip the screen, it flips the rotation so it stays right side up |
| 00:03.55 | sheenmaster | kergoth: so that it's always 640x480, and never 480x600? |
| 00:04.01 | kergoth | because you flip from horizonal to vertical |
| 00:04.07 | kergoth | but you can rotate between them on command as well |
| 00:04.20 | kergoth | startbutton->rotate |
| 00:04.24 | kergoth | whoosh |
| 00:04.25 | kergoth | heh |
| 00:04.38 | sheenmaster | kergoth: is this done on the kernel level, or is it like that (shitty) rotation on my late 5500? |
| 00:04.51 | kergoth | ? |
| 00:04.56 | kergoth | rotating in kernel would be bad |
| 00:04.59 | kergoth | and foolish |
| 00:05.01 | kergoth | it belongs in user space |
| 00:05.17 | sheenmaster | kergoth: rotated apps on my 5500 has no text, or a font point of 0 |
| 00:05.21 | sheenmaster | kergoth: something like that |
| 00:05.21 | kergoth | ? |
| 00:05.24 | kergoth | the you didnt install the rotation fonts |
| 00:05.29 | kergoth | rotation works just fine |
| 00:05.48 | kergoth | hmm, irssi for the Z is 725,972 bytes |
| 00:05.52 | sheenmaster | kergoth: and the c700 has 64mb/ram, sd, and cf support? |
| 00:05.53 | kergoth | monster |
| 00:06.02 | kergoth | c700 has the same specs as b500 |
| 00:06.06 | kergoth | 64mb flash, 32mb ram, sd, cf |
| 00:06.09 | sheenmaster | shit! |
| 00:06.13 | kergoth | the only diff between the two is the LCD and the formfactor |
| 00:06.15 | chouimat | hmm I'm still amazed by the high quality of that document |
| 00:06.21 | kergoth | c700 has the clamshell, and the amazing 640x480 lcd |
| 00:07.12 | sheenmaster | kergoth: and even the japanese models have a qwerty kb? |
| 00:07.32 | kergoth | hmmm |
| 00:08.06 | sheenmaster | that looks qwerty, but the picture is too blury to tell |
| 00:08.13 | kergoth | its qwerty |
| 00:08.16 | kergoth | just a couple japanese modifiers |
| 00:08.24 | kergoth | but we can surely remap them to whatever teh hell we want |
| 00:09.07 | kergoth | c700 is a really nice unit.. the apps start kinda slow, but prelink will help there |
| 00:09.21 | kergoth | course its not a pxa255, its a pxa250, so has some bugs that are worked around in kernel |
| 00:09.37 | kergoth | some c700 users are disablign the cache errata workaround in the kernel, which boosts performance, but who knows how it'll affect reliability |
| 00:11.26 | sheenmaster | kergoth: eegad! Sadam Husein won the election in Iraq. |
| 00:11.41 | sheenmaster | kergoth: first unanimous election since the days of George Washington |
| 00:12.23 | chouimat | sheenmaster: election in Iraq == George W. Bush is a democrate :) |
| 00:12.54 | Neo|Work | sheenmaster: uhm. he was the only candidate |
| 00:13.12 | sheenmaster | Neo|Work: really!? I didn't know! |
| 00:13.34 | kergoth | heh |
| 00:14.04 | Neo|Work | sheenmaster: well good, then now you know. ;-) |
| 00:14.10 | chouimat | Neo|Work: no they had 3 candidates: Shaddam Hussein, Sadam Hussein and Sadam husein |
| 00:15.07 | sheenmaster | chouimat: I lost my arm for voting for the wrong one. |
| 00:15.19 | sheenmaster | chouimat: I lost my other arm for blaming the educational system. |
| 00:18.36 | chouimat | hmm marzipan chocolate |
| 00:23.24 | kergoth | ~/coding/userspace/oz/linux-corgi/gcc2.95$ ipkgfiles output/ipks/irssi-text_0.8.6-1_arm.ipk |grep -v /$ |
| 00:23.27 | kergoth | -rwxr-xr-x root/root 719500 2003-02-18 18:27:33 ./usr/bin/irssi |
| 00:23.30 | kergoth | spiffy |
| 00:23.33 | kergoth | wonder how thatll run on the c700 |
| 00:25.45 | sheenmaster | what was that site selling a new 5500 for $200? |
| 00:25.52 | kergoth | should be in the topic of #zaurus, iirc |
| 00:25.53 | sheenmaster | someone was talking about it yesterday |
| 00:26.02 | kergoth | yep, its in the topic |
| 00:27.13 | sheenmaster | no, that's a different ad |
| 00:27.23 | kergoth | ah |
| 00:35.20 | ljp | channel nazi |
| 00:35.52 | ljp | heh whoops |
| 00:41.14 | kergoth | heh |
| 00:41.39 | kergoth | okay time to architect a spiffy on-the-fly deviceism handler for the base system |
| 00:41.50 | kergoth | so we have less buildtime changes based on device |
| 00:42.30 | chouimat | channel nazi??? |
| 00:44.50 | ljp | ya |
| 00:45.09 | chouimat | what that? |
| 00:45.59 | ljp | someone that yells at someone for being off topic |
| 00:46.14 | chouimat | ok |
| 00:49.28 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: packages-h3600 is now used by all oz-base builds |
| 00:49.35 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: slowly but surely getting there |
| 00:49.36 | kergoth | heh |
| 00:49.56 | treke|ho2e | cool. I'll do a new bk pull tonight |
| 00:52.22 | kergoth | hmm |
| 00:52.28 | kergoth | lets see, the per device handling needs a few items |
| 00:52.34 | kergoth | fstab handling, modules handling |
| 00:52.47 | kergoth | i.e. collie_tc35143af only autoloads if its a collie |
| 01:00.16 | kergoth | hmmm |
| 01:02.05 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: problem? |
| 01:02.49 | *** join/#openembedded billytwowilly (~chris@h24-86-147-220.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 01:05.01 | kergoth | chouimat|tv: just getting rid of buildtime machine specific things in oz packages |
| 01:05.10 | kergoth | chouimat|tv: making things runtime, to consolodate the packages |
| 01:05.23 | kergoth | and just pondering the best way to do it |
| 01:06.04 | kergoth | I'm thinking of ditching dev.tar, making it a series of mknod commands run after mounting /dev |
| 01:06.23 | kergoth | that'll save 143k of uncompressed space, and make it eeasier to handle devfs at runtime |
| 01:07.05 | kergoth | actually even better, I'll make it, on boot, read a device table file of the same format as mkfs.jffs2 parses |
| 01:07.10 | kergoth | hah, thatll be smooth |
| 01:08.06 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: how many of the devfs links in linuxrc are actually required to boot the rest of the rc scripts? |
| 01:08.15 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: just console, right? |
| 01:08.31 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: probably just console. I havent experimented |
| 01:08.43 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: k, the links could easily go in a rcS devfs script |
| 01:08.47 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: which would be cleaner |
| 01:08.48 | treke|ho2e | wait. are there links in linuxrc? |
| 01:08.54 | treke|ho2e | I thought I took those out |
| 01:08.54 | kergoth | no, it creates links |
| 01:09.05 | kergoth | oh |
| 01:09.06 | kergoth | you did |
| 01:09.08 | kergoth | nevermind :) |
| 01:09.23 | kergoth | good |
| 01:09.35 | treke|ho2e | I did that when I found devfs.sh :) |
| 01:09.53 | kergoth | whew, one less thing to worry about |
| 01:10.05 | kergoth | hhmmm |
| 01:10.18 | kergoth | handling inittab differences could prove to be a bitch |
| 01:10.25 | kergoth | quite a large bitch in fact |
| 01:10.50 | *** join/#openembedded dep (~chatzilla@h24-77-50-229.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 01:10.55 | kergoth | hmm |
| 01:10.58 | treke|ho2e | at least in the case of ipaq, the stock inittab could be used. Still not going to help in general |
| 01:11.09 | kergoth | well devfs vs nondevfs for example |
| 01:11.18 | kergoth | suppose symlinks could deal with that |
| 01:11.20 | kergoth | for the getty lines |
| 01:11.42 | treke|ho2e | yeah. Symlinks are kind of a hack, but it might be worthwild |
| 01:11.53 | kergoth | considering init doesnt have a way to do what i want to do |
| 01:11.59 | kergoth | what i want, is a dir like /etc/rc#.d |
| 01:12.06 | kergoth | except shit in there is kept running, it respawns them |
| 01:12.23 | kergoth | then you put a getty-runner script in there that adapts to devie |
| 01:12.25 | kergoth | device |
| 01:12.39 | kergoth | basically its rc#.d but for respawned items |
| 01:12.41 | kergoth | hm, i should do that |
| 01:12.43 | kergoth | could be useful |
| 01:13.58 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: have you ever looked to see what is actually different about zaurus and ipaq opie builds? |
| 01:14.06 | kergoth | library/ stuff |
| 01:14.12 | kergoth | everything else is runtime, not compiletime |
| 01:14.18 | kergoth | because everything else can use libopie's ODevice |
| 01:14.22 | kergoth | where libqpe cant |
| 01:14.39 | *** join/#openembedded ukozfan (~gary@host217-35-61-117.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 01:14.44 | treke|ho2e | ah. libqpe cant depend on libopie? |
| 01:15.01 | kergoth | well, doesnt libopie stuff use libqpe classes? |
| 01:15.07 | kergoth | you'd have a fun circular dependency |
| 01:15.08 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: DEVFS :) |
| 01:15.10 | kergoth | whee |
| 01:15.12 | treke|ho2e | hmmm. good point :) |
| 01:15.36 | treke|ho2e | perhaps ODevice could be moved out of libopie into its own library |
| 01:15.38 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: i need that inittab respawning spiffiness to fix the opie spawn mess and implement a sane gui bootmenu handler |
| 01:15.44 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: that would be cool |
| 01:15.48 | kergoth | libodevice |
| 01:16.05 | kergoth | then libqpe could use it, and we coudl ditch every compiletime difference |
| 01:16.07 | treke|ho2e | that would clean up libqpe a tiny bit |
| 01:16.13 | kergoth | yeah |
| 01:16.21 | kergoth | thats a good idea, email opie-devel |
| 01:16.24 | kergoth | see what the guys think |
| 01:18.12 | treke|ho2e | I'm guessing theres no reasonable way of doing something similar with qt |
| 01:18.34 | kergoth | you'd have to remove the use of qt classes completely from odevice |
| 01:18.46 | kergoth | which you could do.. |
| 01:18.49 | treke|ho2e | and probably hack up qt quite a bit |
| 01:18.55 | kergoth | yeah, hack qt to use it |
| 01:19.04 | treke|ho2e | maintanance nightmare :) |
| 01:19.09 | kergoth | hah, you'd have a qt that can adapt to any device of that arm arch |
| 01:19.10 | kergoth | dood |
| 01:19.13 | kergoth | have you _seen_ qt/e? |
| 01:19.21 | kergoth | its a maintainance nightmare _now_ |
| 01:19.21 | kergoth | :) |
| 01:19.22 | treke|ho2e | a bit |
| 01:19.27 | kergoth | ifdef heaven |
| 01:19.34 | kergoth | heheh |
| 01:20.02 | treke|ho2e | at least with libopie the patches dont need to be updated every time trolltech fixes something :) |
| 01:20.17 | kergoth | true that |
| 01:20.22 | kergoth | but on the plus side |
| 01:20.30 | kergoth | we'd have an intricate knowledge of what they are fixing as they fix it |
| 01:20.34 | kergoth | because it'd break the patches |
| 01:20.46 | kergoth | so even when they dont release changelogs we know whats up :) |
| 01:20.47 | kergoth | hehe |
| 01:21.06 | treke|ho2e | another change you might want to make is to disable the zaurus define on kismet |
| 01:21.14 | kergoth | ah yeah |
| 01:21.18 | treke|ho2e | you lose support for the buzzer, but it works on more platforms |
| 01:21.23 | kergoth | will do |
| 01:21.29 | treke|ho2e | I think thats a fair tradeoff :) |
| 01:21.29 | kergoth | I already merged our pcmcia-cs configs |
| 01:21.50 | treke|ho2e | cool. |
| 01:21.50 | kergoth | now the pcmcia module for pxa/xscale is different i'm sure, so thatd be a compiletime change to the config.. |
| 01:22.02 | kergoth | until I make pcmcia use the new device-specific handling stuff |
| 01:22.29 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: how so? Wouldnt it just be adding a new entry? or did you rename the pcmcia driver? |
| 01:22.49 | kergoth | what do you mean adding a new entry? |
| 01:23.06 | kergoth | i mean the pcmcia file in /etc/default/ |
| 01:23.10 | kergoth | the autoload of the pcmcia module |
| 01:23.18 | treke|ho2e | right now oz is using i8something or other for the driver while the ipaq uses sa1100_cs |
| 01:23.18 | kergoth | not the card specific stuff, the core pcmcia support |
| 01:23.25 | kergoth | Z uses sa1100_cs |
| 01:23.29 | treke|ho2e | oh |
| 01:23.36 | kergoth | i had it wrong in the first place, but it never mattered because we compiel it in monolithically a nyway |
| 01:23.39 | kergoth | its not a module :) |
| 01:23.40 | treke|ho2e | never mind :) |
| 01:23.42 | kergoth | so nobody noticed |
| 01:23.49 | kergoth | but obviuosly c700 isnt sa1100_cs |
| 01:23.52 | kergoth | which is what i'm referring to |
| 01:23.56 | kergoth | it''ll be a pxa driver |
| 01:24.28 | treke|ho2e | the nice thing on ipaq, is that the xscale modules generally use the same driver names |
| 01:24.53 | kergoth | yeah |
| 01:26.10 | treke|ho2e | which does lead to another question. Auto loading modules |
| 01:26.18 | kergoth | yeah |
| 01:26.22 | kergoth | we need fstab, and modules handling |
| 01:26.28 | kergoth | inittab is minor for now |
| 01:26.45 | kergoth | so fstab, modules, pcmcia all need to use some form of device identification functions |
| 01:27.58 | kergoth | yeah, devfs also, to deal with h3600_ts and friends |
| 01:28.56 | treke|ho2e | devfs is pretty easy though, its being handled by a shell script to hide the differences |
| 01:29.39 | kergoth | what i mean is, dont create /dev/h3600_ts symlink if we are on a zaurus |
| 01:29.40 | kergoth | :) |
| 01:29.50 | kergoth | but yeah in general devfs vs no devfs can be handled pretty easily |
| 01:30.09 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: right, you just run that part of the script if your on the right type of device |
| 01:30.17 | kergoth | yup |
| 01:30.42 | treke|ho2e | question is, how much space is this going to cost the user once there are more devices |
| 01:31.04 | kergoth | its text.. few lines of shell script.. not much |
| 01:31.08 | kergoth | considering its on a compressed media |
| 01:32.13 | kergoth | but worst case we can split it out |
| 01:32.24 | kergoth | devdetect-zauruses_blah_arm.ipk |
| 01:32.26 | kergoth | hehe |
| 01:32.31 | kergoth | or some shit |
| 01:32.43 | treke|ho2e | that could be useful in the long run |
| 01:33.18 | treke|ho2e | thats one of those things that isnt going to be a big deal in the beginning, but over time it could make the system a bit of a mess |
| 01:33.24 | kergoth | yeah |
| 01:33.31 | kergoth | whichi s why i want to do this cleanly from the beginning |
| 01:33.34 | kergoth | just need a sane implementation |
| 01:33.56 | kergoth | theres two pieces. device identification, and then the device specific bits of hte individual startup scripts that utilize those identification routines |
| 01:34.34 | kergoth | first is relatively easy.. devdetect could be in /etc/default/devdetect, which gets sourced when needed |
| 01:34.48 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: here;s a question. Right now I'm keeping the h3600_ts stuff. The only thing that's really important for is familiar/X11 compatibility |
| 01:34.53 | kergoth | the latter is a pain.. each package will include device specific bits in their startup script |
| 01:35.34 | Dessimat0r | ibot seen AndyQ |
| 01:35.34 | | andyq <~AndyQ_w@pc-62-31-42-4-hy.blueyonder.co.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #openembedded, 8h 2m 47s ago, saying: 'gtg bbl'. |
| 01:35.39 | kergoth | we could do something like /etc/dev.d/collie/pcmcia, gets called instead of /etc/init.d/pcmcia if you're on a collie device |
| 01:35.44 | treke|ho2e | And even then it really only matters to the X server. Perhaps I should just patch opie to use /dev/touchscreen |
| 01:35.47 | kergoth | but in that case, we'll have entire startup script duplicates |
| 01:35.59 | kergoth | rather than just bits within the script |
| 01:36.40 | chouimat|tv | hmmm 256MB CF for 139 CAD |
| 01:37.21 | Dessimat0r | CF prices are plummeting |
| 01:37.30 | Dessimat0r | soon they will replace everything |
| 01:37.31 | Dessimat0r | hehe |
| 01:37.35 | chouimat|tv | later kergoth`bbl |
| 01:37.58 | chouimat|tv | Dessimat0r: last time I checked a 256MB was 230CAD |
| 01:38.37 | Dessimat0r | kergoth`bbl: it is probably better having duplicates on the compressed filesystem anyway, since there will be portions in each script that are the same |
| 01:40.45 | treke|ho2e | kergoth`bbl: The only startup *script* that should need to be modified per device would be devfs.sh, the rest of the script we should try and tailor around a config file with the differences |
| 01:41.09 | chouimat|tv | treke|ho2e: something like BSD rc.conf? |
| 01:42.07 | treke|ho2e | chouimat|tv: Not sure, but something that specifies what modules to use for things like pcmcia. What script to call for creating devfs links. What modules we should autoload |
| 01:42.48 | chouimat|tv | treke|ho2e: in rc.conf, I define what I want to run on my station etc .. |
| 01:43.20 | treke|ho2e | chouimat|tv: probably not. this shouldnt be user edited. |
| 01:43.41 | chouimat|tv | you also but thing like ifconfig_dc0="inet xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx" |
| 01:44.07 | *** join/#openembedded moray (8d1d40168f@mma29.dar.cam.ac.uk) |
| 01:44.47 | chouimat|tv | treke|ho2e: and the rc scripts parse that file to do the work? |
| 01:44.52 | chouimat|tv | remove the ? |
| 01:45.16 | treke|ho2e | chouimat|tv: isnt that basically how it happens now for the network? |
| 01:45.34 | chouimat|tv | yup |
| 01:46.18 | treke|ho2e | something like that but for device differences |
| 01:46.27 | *** join/#openembedded Shdwdrgn (~shdwdrgn@216.87.84.210) |
| 01:46.38 | *** join/#openembedded noda (~noda@modemcable063.97-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 01:46.40 | noda | Moo! |
| 01:46.56 | chouimat|tv | it's like the bsd rc.conf (the concept) |
| 01:47.00 | treke|ho2e | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:47.00 | treke|ho2e | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:47.00 | treke|ho2e | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:47.00 | treke|ho2e | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:47.00 | treke|ho2e | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:47.02 | treke|ho2e | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:47.05 | treke|ho2e | ...."Have you mooed today?"... |
| 01:47.21 | billytwowilly | can anyone fill me in on what's happening with openembedded? any new platforms supported? |
| 01:47.22 | chouimat|tv | ulyx: fortune bofh-excuses |
| 01:47.22 | ulyx | BOFH Excuse #379: We've picked COBOL as the language of choice. |
| 01:47.54 | chouimat|tv | guys we are going to rewrote OE in cobol .... |
| 01:48.17 | noda | Awesome idea! |
| 01:48.49 | chouimat|tv | lol |
| 01:49.17 | chouimat|tv | noda: try RPG400 :) |
| 01:49.20 | noda | lol, speaking of which... time for me to learn some brainfuck :) |
| 01:49.38 | sheenmaster | noda: how long before M$'s "shared source" shit comes with all whitespace removed? |
| 01:49.48 | noda | lol |
| 01:50.05 | sheenmaster | noda: remember that cfog program for DOS? |
| 01:50.18 | chouimat|tv | noda: hehe, we need a port of brainfuck, to write our init scripts in it :) |
| 01:50.23 | noda | Nope, before my time that. All I knew that ran on DOS was Windows 3.1 and The Lion King, sorry :) |
| 01:50.26 | sheenmaster | noda: it replaced all variables with random letter combos and stuff like that |
| 01:50.34 | noda | chouimat|tv: rofl, not too hard to write, I could cook one up in an hour :) |
| 01:50.38 | noda | Ooh fun :) |
| 01:50.42 | noda | An obfuscator you mean |
| 01:50.48 | sheenmaster | noda: before your time, lol |
| 01:51.02 | sheenmaster | noda: (I'm 16, with only 8 years of experience) |
| 01:51.16 | noda | I'm 19, only 6 years of experience :P |
| 01:51.18 | chouimat|tv | sheenmaster: oh! a baby :) |
| 01:51.21 | noda | Not with C though :) |
| 01:52.13 | sheenmaster | chouimat|tv: lol |
| 01:52.15 | sheenmaster | ~lart chouimat|tv |
| 01:52.34 | sheenmaster | noda: "y x *" |
| 01:52.39 | chouimat|tv | 29 in 3 days, with 22 years of experience |
| 01:52.39 | sheenmaster | noda: in my language |
| 01:52.49 | noda | sheenmaster: reverse polish? :P |
| 01:52.54 | noda | sheenmaster: I'm doin' brainfuck :P |
| 01:53.04 | noda | (since I can't get any other kind :P) |
| 01:53.19 | sheenmaster | noda: "x y *" in RPN-compatibility mode |
| 01:53.31 | sheenmaster | noda: once I get per-line parsing finished, until then it's |
| 01:53.32 | sheenmaster | x |
| 01:53.32 | sheenmaster | y |
| 01:53.33 | sheenmaster | * |
| 01:53.39 | sheenmaster | lol |
| 01:53.44 | noda | Heh |
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| 01:55.12 | chouimat|tv | hi tim |
| 01:56.57 | chouimat|tv | noda: sadique :) |
| 01:57.56 | chouimat|tv | noda: je me demande quoi m'offrir pour ma fete, j'ai 500$ de trop |
| 02:00.17 | *** part/#openembedded TimRiker (timr@rikers.org) |
| 02:00.35 | *** join/#openembedded mrwoody (paolo@241-pool3.ras12.nynyc-t.alerondial.net) |
| 02:00.49 | chouimat|tv | hi mrwoody |
| 02:00.58 | mrwoody | hi chouimat|tv |
| 02:01.05 | mrwoody | chouimat|tv: how is the webpal toy? |
| 02:01.05 | *** join/#openembedded billytwowilly (~chris@h24-86-147-220.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 02:01.39 | ljp | meow |
| 02:03.56 | *** join/#openembedded billytwowilly (~chris@h24-86-147-220.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 02:05.06 | chouimat|tv | ljp:oooooooooiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnk |
| 02:05.06 | *** part/#openembedded billytwowilly (~chris@h24-86-147-220.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 02:06.01 | noda | All RIIIGHT, I think I've done this script.... |
| 02:06.09 | sheenmaster | noda: hehe, I haven't used flowcharts since I was 8 years old. |
| 02:06.23 | noda | sheenmaster: 3 * 4: >+++>++++<[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<[-<<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]] |
| 02:06.28 | *** join/#openembedded billytwowilly (~chris@h24-86-147-220.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 02:06.33 | noda | I think flowcharts aren't exactly to be left out of the picture :P |
| 02:06.42 | noda | Now let's see... |
| 02:06.48 | noda | Oh, whoops, forgot the output... |
| 02:07.01 | *** join/#openembedded billytwowilly (~chris@h24-86-147-220.ed.shawcable.net) |
| 02:07.13 | sheenmaster | noda: lol, who wants to bet that intel will have a 1ghz brainfuck processor.... |
| 02:07.32 | ljp | chouimat|tv: you need more sleep |
| 02:07.42 | chouimat|tv | ljp: no beers |
| 02:08.11 | noda | I'm sure there's a UNIX command that converts from putchar(10) to "10"... anybody know what it could be? |
| 02:09.50 | ljp | ummm, echo ? |
| 02:10.08 | ljp | echo 10 |
| 02:10.50 | noda | ljp: Make a program: int main() { putchar(10); } |
| 02:11.04 | noda | ljp: And then look at the output, pipe it through something so that it says "10" :) |
| 02:12.09 | noda | Bah, I'll write my own. |
| 02:18.05 | *** join/#openembedded mrwoody (paolo@2-pool1.ras12.nynyc-t.alerondial.net) |
| 02:19.10 | noda | Damn, my multiplication didn't work :) |
| 02:27.53 | ljp | ibot 2 + 2 |
| 02:27.54 | | 4 |
| 02:28.53 | noda | >+++>++++<[->>>+>+<<<<]>>>[-<<<+>>>]>[-<<<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]>]<<. |
| 02:29.42 | chouimat|tv | noda: un pocketpc baser sur un mips a 159$ est-ce cher? |
| 02:29.48 | Dessimat0r | 4-2-1+2+3+(-2)+1+1 = 4 |
| 02:29.50 | noda | No idea. brb |
| 02:30.18 | Dessimat0r | ibot 4-2-1+2+3+(-2)+1+1 |
| 02:30.19 | | 6 |
| 02:30.22 | Dessimat0r | nooo |
| 02:30.31 | Dessimat0r | ibot 4-2-1+2+3+(-4)+1+1 |
| 02:30.32 | | 4 |
| 02:33.59 | TheMasterMind1 | ibot die |
| 02:34.00 | | ACTION takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless. |
| 02:34.10 | chouimat|tv | TheMasterMind1: hi |
| 02:34.32 | TheMasterMind1 | hi |
| 02:34.38 | ljp | ulyx die |
| 02:35.44 | chouimat|tv | ibot change 175 cad to usd |
| 02:36.52 | ljp | ibot change me to joe millionaire |
| 02:37.02 | ljp | wwaa |
| 02:38.06 | chouimat|tv | ljp: a casio vr based pda for 116 usd, is it a good deal? |
| 02:38.21 | ljp | hmm |
| 02:38.48 | ljp | whats a casio vr? |
| 02:38.58 | chouimat|tv | ljp casio be-300 |
| 02:39.19 | ljp | run linux? |
| 02:39.39 | chouimat|tv | ljp: wince 3.0 |
| 02:39.50 | chouimat|tv | ljp but they are porting linux on it |
| 02:39.51 | ljp | rip off :) |
| 02:39.56 | ljp | oh |
| 02:40.10 | chouimat|tv | ljp: a little less expensive than a softfield vr3 |
| 02:40.56 | chouimat|tv | ljp: and that device had a CF slot something that the vr3 doesn't have |
| 02:41.38 | chouimat|tv | ljp: www.linux4.be |
| 02:42.26 | sheenmaster | ljp: I'll sell you my vr3 |
| 02:42.34 | sheenmaster | chouimat|tv: or you |
| 02:42.47 | chouimat|tv | sheenmaster: 8mb or 16mb? |
| 02:42.54 | sheenmaster | chouimat|tv: 8mb :( |
| 02:43.05 | chouimat|tv | no thanks |
| 02:43.11 | sheenmaster | chouimat|tv: I have some 8kb serial proms I could throw in... |
| 02:44.14 | sheenmaster | chouimat|tv: I am considering using my vr3 to remote-X apps running on my headless zaurus |
| 02:54.07 | Dessimat0r | ulyx: lart me |
| 02:56.02 | Dessimat0r | ulyx: addlart gets a giant metal axe, and slams the blade into <who>'s forehead, splicing their brain into two segments - one for idiotcy, the other for stupidity. |
| 02:56.03 | ulyx | insufficient "addlart" auth (have 10, need 15) |
| 02:56.07 | Dessimat0r | bah! |
| 02:56.08 | Dessimat0r | lol |
| 02:56.42 | chouimat|tv | Dessimat0r: you have abused it |
| 02:56.54 | Dessimat0r | :( |
| 02:56.58 | chouimat|tv | ulyx: addlart gets a giant metal axe, and slams the blade into <who>'s forehead, splicing their brain into two segments - one for idiotcy, the other for stupidity. |
| 02:56.58 | ulyx | alright |
| 02:57.03 | Dessimat0r | hehe |
| 02:57.55 | Dessimat0r | would you rather have a lartbot that gave out lame larts, or cool, but offending ones? ;) |
| 02:58.39 | *** join/#openembedded caffeine^ (~caffeine^@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 02:58.50 | Dessimat0r | time to burn Kylix Enterprise |
| 02:59.12 | chouimat|tv | Dessimat0r: Kazza? |
| 02:59.19 | Dessimat0r | eMule ;) |
| 03:00.01 | chouimat|tv | Dessimat0r: same (in concept) |
| 03:00.05 | Dessimat0r | yup |
| 03:00.25 | Dessimat0r | i dare not to use Kazaa, I fear that the lameness of its users might overwhelm me ;) |
| 03:00.33 | chouimat|tv | hehe |
| 03:01.09 | Dessimat0r | eMule is the best P2P client i have ever used |
| 03:01.24 | Dessimat0r | based on the eD2k network protocols, of course |
| 03:01.48 | Dessimat0r | WinMX is better for music |
| 03:02.04 | Dessimat0r | seems to be tuned for smaller files |
| 03:03.34 | chouimat|tv | Dessimat0r: can you check for stratovarius elements pt1 (that an album title) |
| 03:04.17 | *** join/#openembedded ljp (~ljp@tf0154.peakpeak.com) |
| 03:04.43 | Dessimat0r | chouimat|tv: k |
| 03:05.36 | Dessimat0r | 29 people have it |
| 03:05.39 | Dessimat0r | its in a rar |
| 03:05.56 | chouimat|tv | Dessimat0r: how big? |
| 03:06.01 | Dessimat0r | ed2k://|file|Stratovarius_Elements_Pt1_www.emgroup.es.fm_por_DEMONIOS_Y_BRUJAS.rar|71570642|36e529aa88cb9df7b16f6ff4f979453d|/ |
| 03:06.15 | Dessimat0r | 68.26mb |
| 03:06.25 | chouimat|tv | Dessimat0r: know a good linux client? |
| 03:06.32 | Dessimat0r | mldonkey |
| 03:06.41 | Dessimat0r | itsi n portage |
| 03:06.48 | Dessimat0r | emerge mldonkey ;) |
| 03:07.08 | chouimat|tv | Dessimat0r: and the rest of gnome :) |
| 03:07.18 | Dessimat0r | hehe |
| 03:08.01 | Dessimat0r | the reason why i like Gentoo so much, is that portage is its 'killer' feature |
| 03:10.28 | kergoth`bbl | okay time to hack on OZ some more |
| 03:10.30 | kergoth`bbl | hmmm |
| 03:12.15 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: hmmmm the doctor chick in smallville is nice |
| 03:12.42 | chouimat|tv | ok I know hjer |
| 03:14.20 | kergoth | yea she is |
| 03:14.39 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: she play in Charmed? |
| 03:14.51 | kergoth | hm |
| 03:15.50 | ljp | yup, portage is nice |
| 03:15.50 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: huh? |
| 03:16.01 | noda | bf is nice :) |
| 03:16.22 | chouimat|tv | Dessimat0r: damn! take time to connect |
| 03:16.34 | chouimat|tv | ~lart noda for using brainfuck |
| 03:18.01 | chouimat|tv | noda: email adress |
| 03:18.22 | noda | chouimat|tv: ? |
| 03:18.41 | chouimat|tv | noda nm |
| 03:19.07 | treke|ho2e | ~lart kergoth |
| 03:21.37 | chouimat|tv | noda : check the joke I'm sending you |
| 03:22.58 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: hmm |
| 03:23.15 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: just wanted someone to lart |
| 03:23.35 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: the device identifyer, should it pull in both device and model, or just drill down to the specific ignoring the device class? |
| 03:23.47 | kergoth | I'm thinking something like.. |
| 03:23.59 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:24.13 | kergoth | which contains a check_device function that gets sourced by the main one |
| 03:24.30 | kergoth | that just sets a device var to a string containing the device type |
| 03:25.36 | kergoth | should i just make it /etc/devdetect/identify.collie, identify.36xx, etc, ignoring the device class of 'zaurus', drilling down to the most specific? |
| 03:25.49 | treke|ho2e | hmmm. |
| 03:26.02 | treke|ho2e | probably 36xx/collie |
| 03:26.13 | kergoth | thats what i was thinking.. i doubt class will be that useful.. |
| 03:26.21 | kergoth | you could do like device=zaurus, model=collie or something |
| 03:26.23 | chouimat|tv | tabarnack |
| 03:26.26 | kergoth | but it seems pretty pointless |
| 03:26.32 | treke|ho2e | 3600/3900 may be very similar, but I'm thinking thats the exception not the rule |
| 03:28.27 | noda | chouimat|tv: Need me to translate it? |
| 03:28.31 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: in "that 70 show" tomorrow FES will get laid |
| 03:28.36 | kergoth | hehe |
| 03:28.37 | kergoth | i saw that |
| 03:28.42 | kergoth | gotta watch that |
| 03:28.56 | chouimat|tv | noda: receive the joke? |
| 03:29.35 | chouimat|tv | noda: too drunk to write it my self for the othes in this channel :) |
| 03:29.48 | noda | chouimat|tv: More important email right now -- about this contest I gotta take if I wanna go to Waterloo |
| 03:30.16 | chouimat|tv | noda: good luck the n |
| 03:31.04 | noda | The contest is in April... but I gotta register soon, and my school was stupid and missed the Feb 14th deadline. I talked with the teacher in charge today, he's a few colours short of a spectrum. |
| 03:31.12 | noda | Guy at Waterloo helped me out :) |
| 03:31.23 | noda | Ooh, Smallville back on :) |
| 03:31.51 | chouimat|tv | noda not here |
| 03:33.46 | effy-kun | who is FES? |
| 03:33.49 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: never noticed that cloe got so nic boobs |
| 03:34.02 | effy-kun | which one is cloe? |
| 03:34.04 | effy-kun | hehe |
| 03:34.30 | chouimat|tv | effy-kun: the blond chick in Smallville |
| 03:34.31 | kergoth | chouimat|tv: yea, she looks damn good in this episode |
| 03:34.50 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: I'm drunk I have a stiffy that won't quit |
| 03:34.53 | kergoth | i'd go for cloe were i clark |
| 03:34.56 | effy-kun | pics pics pics!!! |
| 03:34.58 | kergoth | chouimat|tv: i hate that |
| 03:35.14 | kergoth | how the fuck do you spell cloe anyway |
| 03:35.30 | kergoth | sounds like clowey |
| 03:35.32 | kergoth | bleh |
| 03:35.33 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: hehe, come on cloe and lois together ,he's got enough stamina for both of them :) |
| 03:35.49 | kergoth | haha true that |
| 03:35.50 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: cloé |
| 03:35.57 | effy-kun | kergoth: thought it was "chloe" |
| 03:36.45 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: device identification is in place in a sane fashion |
| 03:36.52 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: now to figure out how to use it in a sane fashion... |
| 03:36.54 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: hehe |
| 03:36.56 | treke|ho2e | hehe |
| 03:37.31 | treke|ho2e | could /etc/inittab be a symlink? |
| 03:37.42 | kergoth | for script in /etc/devdetect/identify.*; do source $script; if check_device; then return 0; fi; done; return 1 |
| 03:37.43 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: power clark |
| 03:38.48 | kergoth | source /etc/default/devdetect; identify_device; if [ $device = "collie" ]; then do some stuff; fi |
| 03:38.51 | kergoth | simple enough? |
| 03:39.30 | kergoth | need a cleaner means of using it from various startup scripts.. hmm |
| 03:41.10 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: can the kernel handle init beig a symlink? |
| 03:41.24 | kergoth | init? probably.. why? |
| 03:41.32 | kergoth | we're actually likely replacing init with a cool new init |
| 03:41.41 | kergoth | that can run startup scripts simultaniously.. multiple scripts at once on boot |
| 03:41.45 | kergoth | speeds up the boot process drastically |
| 03:41.52 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: thinking that something like alternatives could be used for fstab and such |
| 03:41.54 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: got the url to that? |
| 03:42.04 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: yeah, i was thinking about that too.. not sure how to handle it though |
| 03:42.08 | TheMasterMind1 | hmm, to what |
| 03:42.15 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: the init replacement |
| 03:42.16 | TheMasterMind1 | newstyle startup? |
| 03:42.17 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: I want to try it |
| 03:42.19 | kergoth | yea |
| 03:42.20 | TheMasterMind1 | lemme check |
| 03:42.25 | noda | chouimat|tv: ROFL, I love the joke! |
| 03:42.30 | kergoth | I'm revamping shit, i may as well fuck with it |
| 03:42.40 | kergoth | basically, i'm doing oz-base cleanup |
| 03:42.49 | kergoth | finally putting ipkg.conf in ipkg, modules in modutils, blah blah |
| 03:43.00 | chouimat|tv | noda:it's from creamygoodstuff |
| 03:43.11 | kergoth | inittab should be with sysvinit.. |
| 03:43.13 | kergoth | hmmm |
| 03:43.35 | kergoth | really, each individual startup script depends on sysvinit |
| 03:43.36 | TheMasterMind1 | damn, my bookmarks got wiped |
| 03:43.41 | noda | Hrm, is this really a good anti-pot slogan? "One joint contains as much tar as 4 cigarettes"... |
| 03:43.46 | kergoth | yet they belong with the individual packages too |
| 03:43.50 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: what I was thinking was first bootup would use a different init that would set the alteratives to use for your platform |
| 03:44.02 | chouimat|tv | noda: who care do you smoke 25 joint a day? |
| 03:44.03 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: then it would replace itself with the real init and reboot |
| 03:44.06 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: could do that.. even with a script.. |
| 03:44.08 | noda | Exactly! |
| 03:44.09 | kergoth | yeah |
| 03:44.31 | kergoth | noda: that commercial sucks |
| 03:44.38 | kergoth | saw that earlier when watching smallville |
| 03:44.52 | kergoth | hmm |
| 03:44.59 | kergoth | I need a sane way to handle this |
| 03:45.00 | noda | kergoth: Oh don't tell me what happens! I'm... well, as far back as that commercial :) |
| 03:45.02 | kergoth | what we could do.. |
| 03:45.12 | treke|ho2e | of course if we get a new init, it should probably handle that |
| 03:45.15 | kergoth | is split out the sysvinit startup scripts from the individual packages |
| 03:45.18 | kergoth | ala |
| 03:45.19 | kergoth | modutils |
| 03:45.21 | kergoth | modutils-initscript |
| 03:45.29 | kergoth | initscript Depends on sysvinit |
| 03:45.34 | kergoth | modutils-newinitscript |
| 03:45.37 | kergoth | Depends on our new system |
| 03:45.44 | kergoth | god this could become a nightmare |
| 03:45.56 | kergoth | hehe |
| 03:46.18 | kergoth | but shit, with this, you could easily switch between the init types and not make your system explode |
| 03:46.24 | treke|ho2e | thats why we need to figure this out now :) |
| 03:46.24 | kergoth | you'd have to be careful |
| 03:46.28 | kergoth | yes |
| 03:46.29 | kergoth | hmm |
| 03:47.00 | kergoth | okay guys, first thing, do we split out the init scripts from the various packages? |
| 03:47.11 | kergoth | they depend both on the original app package and sysvinit |
| 03:47.21 | treke|ho2e | hmmm |
| 03:47.23 | kergoth | and moving to a new init system, we need new scripts for everything |
| 03:47.29 | kergoth | so the old ones are useless here |
| 03:47.36 | kergoth | which is why i'm even considering it |
| 03:47.48 | kergoth | modutils requires modutils-initscript |
| 03:47.54 | kergoth | modutils-initsript is Provided |
| 03:48.36 | kergoth | by modutil-sysvinit and modutils-thatnewfangledsystem |
| 03:48.44 | kergoth | that way we ensure at least one is loaded at any given time |
| 03:49.04 | kergoth | course its funny making an ipk just for a damn script |
| 03:49.08 | kergoth | but i dont know of a better solution |
| 03:50.12 | treke|ho2e | could let the script sit there unused |
| 03:50.23 | kergoth | just include multiple scripts in the ipk? |
| 03:50.34 | kergoth | wonder if the new system uses the same /etc/init.d or if its a new structure |
| 03:50.39 | kergoth | if its the same, they'll conflict |
| 03:50.51 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: cloe, lois and the doctor chick, the 3 at the same times :) |
| 03:51.00 | treke|ho2e | maybe we just need an initscripts-sysv package |
| 03:51.17 | treke|ho2e | that has all the sysv initscripts for the system in it |
| 03:51.21 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: yeah, but then every time we add a new package that has a script, we need to update it |
| 03:51.27 | kergoth | but maybe thats the solution.. |
| 03:51.27 | kergoth | hmm |
| 03:51.31 | treke|ho2e | yeah |
| 03:51.40 | kergoth | hehe |
| 03:51.42 | kergoth | every solution sucks |
| 03:51.49 | treke|ho2e | or maybe we just need to say this is the init app we are supporting |
| 03:51.52 | kergoth | but we need to do something before revamping init |
| 03:51.59 | kergoth | could do that |
| 03:52.06 | kergoth | but then we're ditching flexibility |
| 03:52.09 | treke|ho2e | not an ideal solution |
| 03:52.09 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: somethiong like bsd init? |
| 03:52.11 | kergoth | and I hate doing that in general |
| 03:52.19 | treke|ho2e | yeah |
| 03:53.18 | kergoth | So far we have two possible solutions. split out each script into its own package, adjusting Depends appropriately, or we create a single master all-the-damn-scripts package |
| 03:53.23 | kergoth | any opinions? |
| 03:53.52 | chouimat|tv | why? why? oh god why? they need to put such beautiful chiks on tv? |
| 03:53.56 | kergoth | either way a number of scripts need to be adjusted to utilize the new devdetect |
| 03:54.07 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: downside to one big package |
| 03:54.14 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: shitload of people need to be fucking with it |
| 03:54.16 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: perhaps each init should provide a make-init-scipt.sh that takes some input and outputs the appropriate format initscript |
| 03:54.27 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: as each maintainer may want to fuck with their script |
| 03:54.45 | treke|ho2e | and the postinst script will create that script |
| 03:54.55 | treke|ho2e | er call |
| 03:55.16 | kergoth | hmmm |
| 03:55.17 | kergoth | thats an idea |
| 03:55.41 | kergoth | upgrades would be interesting |
| 03:55.55 | treke|ho2e | most init systems will need the same basic commands. start, stop, restart, status |
| 03:56.11 | kergoth | if the inputs change, but the user altered the script, how do we check to see that we dont ovewrite their changes? |
| 03:56.15 | kergoth | hm |
| 03:56.31 | treke|ho2e | can ipkg handle something like a first install? |
| 03:56.40 | kergoth | we dont want that |
| 03:57.05 | kergoth | because i as a package maintainer may have fixed a broken script |
| 03:57.14 | kergoth | and we want them to see the improvements |
| 03:58.19 | treke|ho2e | good question |
| 03:58.38 | kergoth | and some inits will need other info |
| 03:58.44 | kergoth | the new init has dependencies |
| 03:58.49 | kergoth | to establish what gets loaded in what order |
| 03:58.57 | kergoth | because it runs them multiple at once, like make -j |
| 03:59.01 | kergoth | deps need to be perfect |
| 03:59.40 | kergoth | aha, you could generate script depends based on ipkg depends |
| 03:59.50 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: check email; |
| 04:00.21 | chouimat|tv | noda: what is the name (real name) of the doctor chick |
| 04:00.22 | treke|ho2e | maybe we should close our eyes and pretend the problem doesnt exist |
| 04:01.01 | kergoth | chouimat|tv: hahah |
| 04:01.38 | kergoth | i need more opinions |
| 04:01.41 | kergoth | now we have 3 possible options |
| 04:01.46 | kergoth | all of which are going to be a pain in the ass |
| 04:01.58 | ljp | no |
| 04:02.05 | kergoth | ~lart ljp |
| 04:02.09 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: liked that joke? |
| 04:02.13 | kergoth | chouimat|tv: yea |
| 04:02.27 | ljp | make it so.... |
| 04:03.26 | kergoth | I dont think I'll bother asking most of the #handhelds.org folks |
| 04:03.37 | kergoth | heh |
| 04:03.53 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: noticed the name of the chick who played the doctor? |
| 04:03.58 | kergoth | chouimat|tv: nope |
| 04:04.07 | ljp | I got home and lost all ambition |
| 04:04.13 | kergoth | ljp: i hate that. |
| 04:04.43 | chouimat|tv | ljp: that happened to me when I was married :) |
| 04:04.48 | kergoth | lol |
| 04:04.49 | ljp | heh I was all hyped up to do code before I left work, too |
| 04:05.08 | kergoth | chouimat|tv: you sober enough to give an opinion on the init script situation? |
| 04:05.11 | kergoth | hehe |
| 04:05.16 | ljp | no |
| 04:05.22 | kergoth | damnit |
| 04:05.31 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: i'm on my 6th beer :) |
| 04:05.38 | ljp | use python |
| 04:05.40 | kergoth | chouimat|tv: damnit |
| 04:05.48 | kergoth | fuck python |
| 04:05.53 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: he didnt say no :) |
| 04:05.59 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: and the sleep pill doesn't kick in yet |
| 04:06.02 | ljp | I thought french speakers drank wine? |
| 04:06.06 | *** join/#openembedded Bala (~Rusaw@hsdbsk142-165-143-64.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 04:07.56 | kergoth | alright, to revamp |
| 04:08.23 | kergoth | we need to adjust our system initialization scripts for 1) to accomidate a new init, and 2) because we have to adjust a number of them anyway to handle device identification |
| 04:08.29 | kergoth | possible solutions: |
| 04:08.33 | chouimat|tv | ljp: I got a nice pinot noir ( valais 2001), oeil-de-perdrix (valais 2001, rose)(swiss wines) a Chateau Haut-Chaigneau 1986 and a Chateau Latour Martignac 1988 here :) |
| 04:08.57 | kergoth | 1) break out init script for each package into a independent package.. i.e. modutils Depends on modutils-init, modutils-init is Provided by modutils-sysvinit and modutils-thatnewfangledinit |
| 04:09.17 | kergoth | 2) break out init scripts for each init into a massive whoa_thats_a_lotta_fucking_scripts package |
| 04:09.52 | kergoth | 3) generate a init script of appropriate format based on the init used in the current system, and using templated information similar to our key/value info stored in the .oe files in the openembedded buildsystem |
| 04:10.04 | chouimat|tv | ljp: the 1986 worth this year bout 200$, the 1988 is about 150$ |
| 04:10.26 | ljp | hmm |
| 04:10.44 | chouimat|tv | ljp: will enjoy them a lot :) |
| 04:10.57 | ljp | I can never keep alcohol around very long |
| 04:11.16 | chouimat|tv | ljp: it's a gift from my mother ... |
| 04:11.36 | ljp | drinking? |
| 04:11.42 | kergoth | lol |
| 04:12.06 | ljp | ya, my mom drives me to drink also |
| 04:12.15 | chouimat|tv | ljp: well my mother was going back to switzerland and she will loose those bottles and 4 others (she give them to my sister and my brother) |
| 04:12.28 | ljp | aaaahhh |
| 04:13.30 | chouimat|tv | ljp: my parents are wine amateurs so ... |
| 04:15.21 | kergoth | come on, somebody give me an opinion on the init script situation |
| 04:15.35 | ljp | make it so! |
| 04:15.37 | kergoth | so i can implement |
| 04:15.52 | ljp | sounds good, do it, whatever it is |
| 04:15.59 | ljp | :D |
| 04:16.02 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: explain |
| 04:16.33 | ljp | ditch the scripts |
| 04:16.38 | ljp | use python |
| 04:16.40 | kergoth | chouimat|tv: ! |
| 04:16.44 | kergoth | chouimat|tv: scroll up |
| 04:16.56 | chouimat|tv | how much time |
| 04:17.23 | ljp | 2 beers ago |
| 04:17.35 | chouimat|tv | oljp5 minutes then :0 |
| 04:17.52 | kergoth | hm |
| 04:17.52 | treke|ho2e | chouimat|tv: dont you mean yesterday? :) |
| 04:18.01 | kergoth | i forgot, need to ditch the oz-base Provided /root/.profile |
| 04:18.37 | kergoth | in favor of including /etc/skel information, copying it into /root/ in postinst if they arent already there |
| 04:19.01 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: I will yup for a device dependent config file and generic scripts that use that file for device specific value |
| 04:19.31 | kergoth | device detection is already done |
| 04:19.35 | kergoth | i dont need help with that |
| 04:19.39 | kergoth | :) |
| 04:19.41 | treke|ho2e | thats so two hours ago |
| 04:19.47 | kergoth | hehe |
| 04:19.48 | kergoth | exactly |
| 04:20.04 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: look at bsd rc scripts they use a machine specific rc.conf |
| 04:20.39 | kergoth | okay okay |
| 04:20.42 | kergoth | thats the easy part |
| 04:20.45 | kergoth | thats nothing |
| 04:20.55 | kergoth | the real question is a compeltely different issue |
| 04:20.58 | kergoth | how to package scripts |
| 04:21.08 | kergoth | scroll up, but not as far this time :) |
| 04:21.25 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: sorry I'm watching babylon 5 |
| 04:22.08 | kergoth | argh |
| 04:22.08 | kergoth | hehe |
| 04:22.47 | treke|ho2e | lot of good he is :) |
| 04:22.56 | treke|ho2e | if he isnt drunk or abusing the bot he's watching tv |
| 04:23.13 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: package the generics script and the rc.conf for a given device and you will get 500D-init, c700-init,webpal-init etc ... |
| 04:23.30 | chouimat|tv | treke|ho2e: shaddap |
| 04:24.08 | chouimat|tv | treke|ho2e: I'm alone for 3 years so I drown my solitude in alchool |
| 04:28.58 | kergoth | I DONT care about your device identification ideas |
| 04:29.04 | kergoth | I'm so _done_ with that |
| 04:29.26 | kergoth | My question involves alternate init's and how to pakcage the associated scripts |
| 04:29.35 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: send me an email and I will answer it in detail |
| 04:30.01 | kergoth | ok |
| 04:30.13 | kergoth | god i resorted to asking an actual important implementation question in #zaurus |
| 04:30.17 | kergoth | somebody shoot me |
| 04:30.31 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: who? |
| 04:30.52 | ljp | ulyx kill kergoth |
| 04:30.59 | kergoth | who what? |
| 04:31.02 | ljp | ibot kill kergoth |
| 04:31.04 | | ACTION slits kergoth's throat |
| 04:31.06 | kergoth | thanks |
| 04:31.13 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: how about a generic scripts ipk and a device specific one i.e a bsd rc.conf file |
| 04:31.17 | ljp | sure, nm |
| 04:31.58 | kergoth | you're so not listening |
| 04:32.05 | kergoth | I DONT CARE ABOUT DEVICE SPECIFICS RIGHT NOW |
| 04:32.10 | chouimat|tv | i'm trying |
| 04:32.18 | kergoth | give up, i'll ask you tomorrow |
| 04:32.43 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: send me the email, I need to analyse this |
| 04:33.01 | kergoth | k |
| 04:33.07 | Bala | id' just use option 1. then... it seems the least hassle. |
| 04:53.04 | mewyn` | woo |
| 04:53.26 | kergoth | mewyn`: ? |
| 04:53.42 | kergoth | oh right |
| 04:53.43 | kergoth | hehe |
| 04:53.48 | chouimat|tv | kergoth: still waiting :) |
| 04:54.17 | mewyn` | Ewen I know what to do with this one. Hewy cwapface. Bwow it out yowh eawoh. |
| 04:54.36 | kergoth | ? |
| 04:54.43 | kergoth | you sound like the priest in the princess bride |
| 04:54.55 | mewyn` | www.homestarrunner.com |
| 04:54.56 | kergoth | maiwwwage. maiwwwage is what bwings us togever todawwy |
| 04:57.18 | mewyn` | it's perticularlly from this strongbad email: http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail50.html |
| 05:16.02 | chouimat|zzzz | night |
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| 05:37.53 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: Man this show is lame. superman has devolved into a whiny little bitch |
| 05:38.03 | *** part/#openembedded TimRiker (timr@rikers.org) |
| 05:42.15 | kergoth | treke|ho2e: hehe. fucker has _two_ beautiful women who want him.. does he do anything about it? fuck no. |
| 05:42.54 | treke|ho2e | kergoth: I'm not going to mention the fact that it looks like he was born when his mother was approximatly 13 |
| 05:43.27 | kergoth | lol |
| 05:43.36 | kergoth | and i keep watching the show |
| 05:43.44 | kergoth | bitching at him to grow some balls and DO SOMETHING |
| 05:44.00 | kergoth | as the chicks give him opportunity after opportunity |
| 05:44.03 | kergoth | heh |
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| 05:50.03 | mewyn` | what show? |
| 05:50.12 | kergoth | smallville |
| 05:50.18 | mewyn` | ah |
| 05:50.40 | kergoth | great show, frustrates the fuck out of me tho |
| 05:50.43 | mewyn` | well, superman would prolly kill a girl |
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| 09:20.25 | schurig | Whaaaa. Someone put SOX into the BK tree of OZ at the same time I was doing this :-( |
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| 09:24.01 | Twiun | mornin' |
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| 11:05.00 | vir182 | using openzaurs 3.1rc2: can aynone explain me why i can't create a link on my CF? ln -s /mnt/cf/usr/lib/libxine.so.1.0.0 /mnt/cf/usr/libxine.so.1 ? |
| 11:05.00 | mickeyl | ext2fs? |
| 11:05.00 | vir182 | vfat |
| 11:05.40 | mickeyl | so you answered your own question. |
| 11:05.58 | vir182 | hmm, i didnt know vfat did not allow that, dang |
| 11:06.18 | vir182 | now i understand why ppl would use ext2 for the CF |
| 11:06.55 | vir182 | well i guess some ipkg will not work on vfat then because they keep complaining about unable to set link ;-) |
| 11:07.00 | vir182 | thx for the info |
| 11:19.13 | chrisb|work | vir182: it is possible to fix up the links manually after the install. it would be great if ipkg took care of it automatically tho. |
| 11:20.29 | vir182 | chrisb|work i worked it already out. i gonna fill up a bg report about this |
| 11:21.08 | vir182 | i only was wondering whhy linking was not possible. seems iworked too long on unix machines becvause i didnt remember links were not possible on vfat FS ;-) |
| 11:22.36 | schurig | vir182: that's why MS invented the *.lnk files and made the explorer handle them. It's on application level, not on OS level like on Unix |
| 11:22.48 | schurig | BTW: original Unix didn't have Symlinks either |
| 11:23.22 | chrisb|work | vir182: I usually fix up the links on root, as at least one of the symlinks from root is to a real file. I would be using ext2 but my SD card doesn't like it. |
| 11:23.43 | vir182 | well, till now i nworked on Soliars and linux. both are not orginal unixes |
| 11:24.37 | chrisb|work | Soliars?! hehe |
| 11:25.03 | chrisb|work | Think I might prefer that to Slowlaris |
| 11:25.38 | vir182 | hehe, well Solaris ;-) |
| 11:26.39 | chrisb|work | Can add that to other insulting OS names - Windross etc. |
| 11:27.54 | chrisb|work | Wonder if anyone's thinking of making ipkg vfat-aware? Or is it a packaging issue? |
| 11:28.17 | pb_ | What do you think would need doing to make ipkg vfat-aware? |
| 11:28.28 | pb_ | I don't think it really needs to know about the underlying filesystem. All it does is untar files. |
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| 11:30.36 | chrisb|work | it could use the -h flag on tar.... |
| 11:31.04 | chrisb|work | or does that only work with 'tar c' and not 'tar f'? |
| 11:31.14 | chrisb|work | i mean 'tar x' not 'tar f' of course |
| 11:32.51 | pb_ | I think that only applies to creation. |
| 11:33.41 | pb_ | Normally, that would be undesirable. Library packages, for example, typically include one binary and two symlinks to it. The -h option would cause three copies of the binary to be shipped, which would obvious consume three times as much disk space. |
| 11:34.50 | chrisb|work | Yup, it would be better to allow one copy in the tar file to become 3 on my vfat partition, or better still to fix up the symlinks on /root automatically using ipkg-link |
| 11:37.15 | pb_ | chrisb|work: I suspect you really don't want three copies on your vfat partition either. These libraries can be up to several megabytes in size. |
| 11:37.58 | chrisb|work | None of the ones I've seen so far have been that big. But yes, it's not ideal. |
| 11:38.22 | chrisb|work | Problem is, ipkg-link doesn't have all the data to do it proerly. |
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| 12:45.23 | vir182 | is there a page which describes the packages in the package system? like ta debian page. |
| 12:49.07 | schurig | vir182: unfortunately not yet |
| 12:49.12 | schurig | vir182: patches welcome :-) |
| 12:49.46 | schurig | However, you can look at the generated "Packages" file in an ipk feed. |
| 12:50.55 | vir182 | schurig thx |
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| 13:04.23 | noda | Moo! |
| 13:05.59 | mickeyl | hi noda |
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| 13:07.17 | mickeyl | schurig: pkgconfig has been added to oz-buildroot. |
| 13:10.47 | schurig | mickeyl: fast guy! |
| 13:11.43 | mickeyl | schurig: very easy. my packages/autoconf directory is a good template for auto* based tools for the build system. |
| 13:12.04 | mickeyl | only had to adapt the name, source and version lines. |
| 13:12.17 | mickeyl | schurig: you tested sox? i can't get it to work on my Z |
| 13:12.43 | mickeyl | schurig: it compiles and runs and all, but fails to play with a strange error |
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| 13:36.05 | schurig | schurig: I tested sox. Hmm, I tested yesterday MY sox. While I was doing it (and not yet had it committed!), Kergoth was doing one, too |
| 13:36.16 | schurig | What error do you have? |
| 13:36.36 | mickeyl | i added it, btw. |
| 13:36.36 | schurig | mickeyl: Ups, I have to add a filter to ksirc ... |
| 13:36.45 | schurig | mickeyl: you, you added it? Ok, sorry |
| 13:36.50 | mickeyl | hehe, never mind |
| 13:37.02 | schurig | so, what's the error? |
| 13:37.03 | mickeyl | however, i get the following error... |
| 13:38.19 | schurig | mickeyl: versuch mal: sox test.wav -t ossdsp /dev/dsp |
| 13:39.59 | mickeyl | # sox _show.wav -t ossdsp /dev/dsp |
| 13:40.01 | mickeyl | sox: User options overriding size read in .wav header |
| 13:40.04 | mickeyl | sox: bad input format for file _show.wav: data size 254 is invalid |
| 13:40.23 | mickeyl | _show.wav ist definitiv ok und ich hab _keine_ user options |
| 13:40.28 | schurig | mickeyl: dann nimm halt ein anderes *.wav, z.B. eines von KDE |
| 13:40.43 | mickeyl | neinnein, als haette ich das nicht probiert |
| 13:40.53 | mickeyl | immer die gleiche meldung |
| 13:41.11 | schurig | Mein sox war nicht mit "--without-gsm" konfiguriert |
| 13:42.13 | schurig | mickeyl: upps, was again in german mode |
| 13:42.18 | mickeyl | ups... me too |
| 13:42.40 | schurig | mickeyl: it would have been good of you if you hadn't committed your non-working sox. In that case we would have a working one by now :-) |
| 13:42.41 | mickeyl | ok, has nothing to do with the config parameters. i even extracted a binary package from sox.deb (debian) - same behaviour |
| 13:43.12 | mickeyl | i doubt it, but feel free to override with your sox |
| 13:43.15 | schurig | I could send you my sox binary (it's still from my now-deleted sox package) |
| 13:43.21 | mickeyl | yes, please! |
| 13:43.29 | mickeyl | ==> mickeyl@handhelds.org |
| 13:44.47 | schurig | I sent it to your university account (the one that is in /whois) |
| 13:45.18 | mickeyl | yep, that's the same. thanks |
| 13:46.37 | Shdwdrgn | aargg! I can't wait for the SD card to arrive. Yet another crash, I had to pull the battery out to get my Z to reboot this time, and of course everything's been dumped from ram. |
| 13:52.33 | mickeyl | schurig: hmm... didn't arrive yet... got the address right? it's mickey@tm.informatik..., not mickey_l_@tm.informatik... |
| 14:01.39 | schurig | mickeyl: maybe the @gandalf. was too much |
| 14:02.15 | mickeyl | schurig: normally, it should handle this. however, our network has a lousy sysadmin.. :( |
| 14:02.37 | mickeyl | this is why i have my important services hosted on my own station... |
| 14:02.49 | schurig | i've resent it to @tm ... |
| 14:45.21 | mickeyl | schurig: d'oh! your binary makes more than mine... it doesn't play the wav [only klicks on the buzzer], but it doesn't spit out the error... feel free to override sox/Makefile |
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| 15:15.45 | schurig | mickeyl: the real difference is that I download the source & diff from debain |
| 15:16.02 | schurig | and I use less trailing semicolons at the end if staging-install :-) |
| 15:16.28 | schurig | I'll update the package soon |
| 15:18.42 | mickeyl | schurig: ok. however, i feel there's sok |
| 15:19.03 | mickeyl | still something weired with the buzzer driver... i will write some oss test programs if i have time. |
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| 15:20.22 | schurig | mickeyl: there is also a "playwave" binary from libsdl-mixer1.2. That works also nice. Can you test that on the Z? |
| 15:22.02 | schurig | mickeyl: what's the meaning of "sok" in "I feel there's sok"? |
| 15:22.27 | mickeyl | schurig: hehe... I feel there's something weird with the buzzer... |
| 15:22.40 | mickeyl | checking libsdl-mixer on my Z now |
| 15:23.15 | schurig | It may not be in the *.ipk, but it's in my build/libsdl-mixer1.2 |
| 15:23.37 | schurig | hmm, it IS in the ipk :-) |
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| 15:24.12 | mickeyl | # playwave _show.wav |
| 15:24.14 | mickeyl | Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed) |
| 15:24.14 | schurig | Here I have a real "loud"speaker. In fact, it's a silentspeaker |
| 15:24.33 | schurig | too bad for you. It works on my hardware |
| 15:24.34 | gaurdian | is there an ipk of gcc that works somewhere ? |
| 15:25.12 | schurig | gaurdian: only binaries for ARM (that run on Zaurus) are in *.ipk's. But yes, there are toolchains for arm that run on x86. |
| 15:25.36 | gaurdian | I ment for the Z, the one at ZSI dident seem to work |
| 15:26.12 | gaurdian | just wondering if it had been fixed |
| 15:26.18 | schurig | gaurdian: I've got mine from http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/lartware/compile-tools/ |
| 15:26.30 | gaurdian | ok thanks |
| 15:26.33 | schurig | It's ancient, but it works without bugs :-) |
| 15:27.36 | gaurdian | thats a cross compiler for a x86 system right ? I want one for the Z itself |
| 15:27.42 | schurig | gaurdian: I'm using the last one on the page |
| 15:28.16 | gaurdian | ahh |
| 15:28.23 | schurig | gaurdian: it has to be extracted at the correct place (gcc has hardcoded symbolic links in it!) |
| 15:28.24 | schurig | cd /usr/local/arm; \ |
| 15:28.24 | schurig | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:28.38 | schurig | and later: PATH=/usr/local/arm/2.95.3/bin:$PATH |
| 15:29.07 | schurig | gaurdian: that's a compiler that run's on x86 and produces code for the Z (and any other ARM target). |
| 15:29.29 | gaurdian | Yea, but I am looking for a gcc that runs on the Z itself |
| 15:29.35 | schurig | gaurdian: there is also a compiler thar runs on Z and produces code for the Z. Compiling *ON* your Z ... a little bit slow, but hey, it works |
| 15:29.59 | gaurdian | yea, I assume it will be slow..but no biggie |
| 15:30.14 | gaurdian | where is that at schurig |
| 15:30.32 | schurig | gaurdian: ok, if you really want that, then look into the ipk feed of OZ, there is some gcc-2.94.4-arm package in the build system, I have never tested it |
| 15:30.45 | schurig | gaurdian: try www.openzaurus.org and click your way throught |
| 15:30.51 | gaurdian | I dont always have a cross compile setup avaliable |
| 15:31.33 | schurig | gaurdian: e.g. http://www.openzaurus.org/official/unstable/feed/ |
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| 15:36.35 | qutopia009 | hi guys i am using OZ3.1rc2 and i am having really hard time working with the system it seems to be slow |
| 15:36.35 | qutopia009 | any ideas? |
| 15:36.35 | qutopia009 | i m using it on SL5500 |
| 15:37.17 | chrisb|work | qutopia009: what is showing in your process list in systeminfo? |
| 15:37.41 | qutopia009 | 12 processes |
| 15:38.07 | chrisb|work | qutopia009: sort them by time, which ones are at the top (i.e. most time used)? |
| 15:38.09 | qutopia009 | it happens alot when i insert a card or work with the package manager |
| 15:38.29 | qutopia009 | kapm-idled |
| 15:39.01 | chrisb|work | qutopia009: are you mostly installing packages to CF or SD? |
| 15:39.21 | qutopia009 | SD |
| 15:39.29 | chouimat | morning |
| 15:39.34 | qutopia009 | but even if i don't i would tap and then wait 15sec |
| 15:39.42 | chrisb|work | qutopia009: does it run slow the whole time? |
| 15:39.51 | chrisb|work | chouimat: afternoon |
| 15:39.51 | qutopia009 | u can say that |
| 15:40.04 | qutopia009 | especially if i have the wireless card in |
| 15:40.17 | chrisb|work | qutopia009: which wireless card? |
| 15:40.23 | qutopia009 | MA701 |
| 15:40.25 | qutopia009 | netgear |
| 15:41.26 | chrisb|work | qutopia009: I have seen similar behaviour, mostly on RC2 without upgraded packages. I think it got better when I upgraded some stuff to the unstable feed, but then some other stuff got worse ;-) |
| 15:41.46 | qutopia009 | ic |
| 15:41.53 | qutopia009 | so i should wait till a final release |
| 15:41.58 | chrisb|work | qutopia009: I have a Symbol wifi card |
| 15:42.06 | *** join/#openembedded mark (~mark@s.westcott.freeuk.com) |
| 15:42.09 | qutopia009 | i am having the same prob with OZ3.0 |
| 15:42.18 | chrisb|work | qutopia009: I don't know - you should ask one of the developers |
| 15:42.24 | qutopia009 | ok will do |
| 15:42.36 | qutopia009 | thanks for the help gotta run |
| 15:42.38 | *** part/#openembedded qutopia009 (~tri@128.238.79.94) |
| 15:43.11 | chrisb|work | qutopia009: no prob |
| 15:44.35 | chrisb|work | ljp: are you an OZ developer? |
| 15:45.13 | ljp_work | opie |
| 15:45.22 | ljp_work | mopie opie |
| 15:45.32 | chrisb|work | mopie? |
| 15:45.40 | ljp_work | hehehe |
| 15:45.46 | ljp_work | flopie opie |
| 15:45.55 | chrisb|work | ah, Earth humour |
| 15:46.06 | ljp_work | not earth humor |
| 15:46.10 | ljp_work | :D |
| 15:46.38 | chrisb|work | brb |
| 16:53.17 | *** join/#openembedded Harlekin (~max@pD9545E09.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:55.11 | *** part/#openembedded schurig (~schurig@p5080AC6A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:57.07 | *** join/#openembedded melanie (~melanie@elf.thecommune.org.uk) |
| 16:59.43 | chouimat | ibot wake kergoth`zzz |
| 16:59.44 | | i haven't a clue, chouimat |
| 17:02.44 | melanie | ibot seen icefox? |
| 17:02.45 | | icefox is currently on #zaurus (1h 42m 56s) #openembedded (1h 42m 56s). Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 1h 43m 29s |
| 17:05.49 | icefox | hi |
| 17:10.58 | *** join/#openembedded Dessimat0r (~root@public1-birk1-3-cust91.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 17:11.20 | kergoth | yo |
| 17:11.34 | Dessimat0r | lo ;) |
| 17:11.51 | chouimat | hi kergoth Dessimat0r |
| 17:12.18 | TheMasterMind1 | sup kergoth |
| 17:12.27 | TheMasterMind1 | hows the simpleinit stuff going |
| 17:12.37 | chouimat | kergoth: http://ulyx.homeunix.org:12000/harkonnen.jpg |
| 17:13.00 | Dessimat0r | Seems that I'm banned from QuakeNet for no reason |
| 17:13.01 | kergoth | chouimat: heh, thats pretty damn cool |
| 17:13.23 | Dessimat0r | ah, how they love to Kline whole ISPs |
| 17:13.43 | TheMasterMind1 | chouimat: what is it? |
| 17:13.56 | kergoth | chouimat: look at the possible init solutions? |
| 17:13.59 | chouimat | TheMasterMind1: know giger? |
| 17:14.14 | TheMasterMind1 | nope |
| 17:14.33 | chouimat | kergoth: I thought of something but I'm not happy with it |
| 17:14.41 | kergoth | chouimat: every solution sucks |
| 17:14.43 | kergoth | chouimat: :) |
| 17:14.45 | chouimat | TheMasterMind1: the creator of the Alien monster |
| 17:14.52 | TheMasterMind1 | i see |
| 17:15.00 | kergoth | I think generating the scripts from some form of metadata seems most sane.. |
| 17:15.04 | kergoth | but a pain to manage |
| 17:16.36 | TheMasterMind1 | sounds painful |
| 17:17.28 | chouimat | kergoth: use some generic scripts and make them parse the metadata on boot |
| 17:17.54 | TheMasterMind1 | that makes it slower though no? |
| 17:18.16 | chouimat | not really look at bsd |
| 17:18.34 | kergoth | well all we need to handle is differing init types |
| 17:19.23 | TheMasterMind1 | ok, well all of them basically need to run a set of commands for start, stop and restart but they're in different formats for each init type |
| 17:19.39 | chouimat | kergoth: create a rc.conf file with something like arch='xscale' devicetype='c700' and the init scripts know wat todo with that |
| 17:21.03 | Dessimat0r | I got the Zaurus working on linux ;) |
| 17:21.15 | Dessimat0r | connected to my linux b0x |
| 17:22.21 | Dessimat0r | is there anything like Putty, but for Linux? |
| 17:22.31 | chouimat | Dessimat0r: openssh |
| 17:22.34 | Dessimat0r | ah |
| 17:22.48 | Dessimat0r | emerging now |
| 17:23.22 | Harlekin | Dessimat0r: lol |
| 17:24.38 | chouimat | kergoth: what do you thing? |
| 17:38.37 | *** join/#openembedded DaJoker (~joker@ip68-10-51-20.rn.hr.cox.net) |
| 17:42.46 | chouimat | ulyx: weather |
| 17:42.46 | ulyx | 59 minutes ago, on Wed Feb 19 17:00:00 UTC 2003, the wind was blowing at a speed of 1.03 meters per second (2.30 miles per hour) from the North/Northeast at CYQB. The temperature was -5 degrees Celsius (23 degrees Fahrenheit), and the pressure was 1017 hPa (30.00 inHg). The relative humidity was 85.8%. There were overcast clouds at a height of 549 meters (1800 feet). The visibility was 3.2 kilometers (2.0 miles). |
| 17:42.47 | ulyx | Current weather is Light Snow . |
| 17:43.44 | kergoth | chouimat: device specifics are already easily handled. |
| 17:43.48 | kergoth | chouimat: i'm _done_ with device speicifcs |
| 17:43.58 | kergoth | chouimat: the question is how to handle a startup script that works with multiple inits |
| 17:44.05 | kergoth | chouimat: including sysvinit, jinit, minit, and simpleinit |
| 17:44.19 | mewyn` | chouimat: how about looking out a window? |
| 17:45.31 | kergoth | chouimat: I created /etc/default/devdetect, which includes a function 'identify_device', that calls the check_device script in each /etc/devdetect/identify.* script, which sets device= the correct device we're on |
| 17:45.44 | kergoth | chouimat: in this way its handled at runtime, and there is no hardcoded value in rc.conf at build time |
| 17:54.16 | kergoth | chouimat: ideas on the multiple init situation? |
| 17:54.30 | chouimat | kergoth: put the init type in rc.conf :) |
| 17:54.34 | kergoth | ew |
| 17:54.39 | kergoth | ~lart chouimat for being evil |
| 18:03.05 | chouimat | kergoth: do what you think is best :) |
| 18:03.11 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 18:03.23 | kergoth | fuck if i know |
| 18:03.27 | kergoth | I hate all the options |
| 18:03.45 | chouimat | kergoth: so choose a init and fuck the rest |
| 18:03.57 | kergoth | and ditch flexibility? |
| 18:04.04 | kergoth | openembedded should be able to let you select which init you want |
| 18:04.10 | kergoth | and I dont want it to be limited to buildtime |
| 18:04.57 | chouimat | kergoth: we also need that choosing init at buildtime |
| 18:05.04 | kergoth | yes |
| 18:05.07 | kergoth | but not _only_ buildtime |
| 18:05.15 | kergoth | i dont want selecting init to change every other package in the system's init script |
| 18:05.20 | kergoth | that'll be a fucking nightmare |
| 18:05.23 | kergoth | we'll need a seperate feed for each init |
| 18:05.24 | kergoth | bleh |
| 18:05.25 | kergoth | fuck that |
| 18:06.14 | chouimat | kergoth: no, differents packages-init |
| 18:06.34 | kergoth | so you think each init script should have its own package/ |
| 18:06.41 | kergoth | option .. whatever it was.. |
| 18:06.42 | chouimat | ie. opie-sysvinit |
| 18:06.51 | kergoth | yea, thats a shitload of packages in the feeds |
| 18:06.55 | kergoth | and could confuse users |
| 18:06.57 | kergoth | i can see the questions now |
| 18:07.04 | kergoth | "hi, what are all these sysvinit packages?" |
| 18:07.10 | kergoth | "should i install them?" |
| 18:07.18 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:07.38 | kergoth | that solution has maximum flexibility and isnt prone to failure |
| 18:07.42 | kergoth | but the users.. |
| 18:07.43 | kergoth | hmm |
| 18:07.55 | chouimat | kergoth: and we need to modify aqpkg to check the init used and just show the correct one. |
| 18:07.57 | kergoth | generating init script based on metadata is as flexible, but more complex |
| 18:08.04 | kergoth | chouimat: hehe, thats evil |
| 18:08.13 | kergoth | chouimat: they cant install them anyway for the wrong one |
| 18:08.15 | kergoth | i.e. |
| 18:08.21 | chouimat | kergoth: or put all init script in differents directory |
| 18:08.29 | kergoth | opie-jinit will Depend on jinit which Conflicts with sysvinit |
| 18:08.38 | kergoth | so it cant be installed accidentally |
| 18:10.25 | chouimat | kergoth: that solution is the correct one and we put something in the faq about that ... tell the ansking use to RTFM :) |
| 18:10.31 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:10.44 | kergoth | so |
| 18:10.47 | kergoth | opie Depends: opie-init |
| 18:10.53 | kergoth | opie-sysvinit Provides: opie-init |
| 18:10.56 | kergoth | opie-sysvinit Depends on sysvinit |
| 18:10.58 | kergoth | and life is good |
| 18:11.01 | kergoth | eh? |
| 18:11.36 | chouimat | kergoth: yup but opie virtual-depends: opie-init in that case |
| 18:11.50 | kergoth | yes, opie-init isnt a real package |
| 18:12.00 | kergoth | that way opie always has an init script installed |
| 18:12.26 | chouimat | and fuck the users |
| 18:12.32 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:12.43 | kergoth | well, as long as we document it fully, i think we'd be okay |
| 18:12.55 | kergoth | worst case we can pull alternate init and *-init packages into seperate feeds |
| 18:12.58 | kergoth | to hide em |
| 18:13.31 | chouimat | kergoth: I think that oz must stick to an init systems and nevermind the others |
| 18:13.44 | kergoth | could do that |
| 18:13.53 | kergoth | as long as we keep the infrastructure sufficiently flexible |
| 18:14.03 | chouimat | the others will be used by us the developers |
| 18:14.04 | kergoth | OZ would only include one in its feeds and builds |
| 18:14.06 | kergoth | yeah |
| 18:14.27 | chouimat | kergoth: like the ramses, ads thingy in build root |
| 18:14.41 | kergoth | yeah, the default ads config could use sysvinit.. or what have you |
| 18:14.55 | kergoth | okay, i think i like that solution |
| 18:15.10 | kergoth | that reminds me |
| 18:15.16 | kergoth | I need to write a _shitload_ of new scripts |
| 18:15.19 | kergoth | for the new init |
| 18:15.34 | chouimat | kergoth: yup but take your time |
| 18:15.39 | kergoth | the current scripts simpleinit comes with are redhatish |
| 18:15.41 | kergoth | need to adapt to debian |
| 18:15.44 | kergoth | yeah, I will |
| 18:15.57 | kergoth | chouimat: http://www.atnf.csiro.au/people/rgooch/linux/boot-scripts/ |
| 18:21.46 | *** join/#openembedded treke|laptop (~ggilbert@12.107.12.130) |
| 18:41.10 | treke|laptop | lets give #z a break :) |
| 18:41.12 | kergoth | we need a way to define what arch a machine is |
| 18:41.13 | kergoth | i.e. |
| 18:41.24 | kergoth | Architecture: armv4l would be able to be installed on both say, h3600 and collie |
| 18:41.33 | kergoth | Architecture: arm on any arm device |
| 18:41.43 | kergoth | so architecture, architecture version, or machine |
| 18:41.54 | pb_ | kergoth: "any arm device" is pretty useless, since no binary will work on both armv4l and armv4b. |
| 18:42.06 | chouimat | kergoth: mips had severals variants |
| 18:42.29 | kergoth | pb_: good point. maybe arml and armb for binaries that'll work on v4 or v5 or what have you |
| 18:43.02 | kergoth | obviously we need a policy on this |
| 18:43.05 | pb_ | yeah, seems reasonable. |
| 18:43.06 | chouimat | arch-cpu-device i.e mips-vr4131-be300, mips-vr4181-vr3 etc .. |
| 18:43.16 | treke|laptop | it would make sense for othe platforms |
| 18:43.35 | pb_ | chouimat: that seems too specific: virtually no packages actually have dependencies on the specific device (or even specific cpu model in most cases) |
| 18:43.38 | kergoth | chouimat: not just arch and cpu, as i said earlier arch version as well |
| 18:43.38 | treke|laptop | 80386 for most any intel ia32 cpu vs 80686 |
| 18:43.40 | kergoth | right, exactly |
| 18:44.02 | kergoth | I think architecture, architecture version, and machine type is a good breakdown |
| 18:44.11 | kergoth | machine type gives you the highest granularity you'll need |
| 18:44.24 | kergoth | the question is, do we do arch-archver-machinetype, arch-archver, arch, in teh field |
| 18:44.24 | pb_ | agreed, seems reasonable. |
| 18:44.37 | kergoth | or do we store the association of machine type to arch versions to arch somewhere? |
| 18:45.12 | pb_ | You could just have a list of "acceptable Arch: fields" in /etc/ipkg.conf or somewhere, and call out all of armel, arm4el, arm4el-collie explicitly. |
| 18:45.16 | chouimat | kergoth: need to take of dual endian arch too |
| 18:45.31 | chouimat | s/take/take care |
| 18:45.34 | kergoth | chouimat: we just said that |
| 18:45.37 | kergoth | chouimat: scroll up |
| 18:45.52 | kergoth | chouimat: pb's comment on any arm device being useless |
| 18:46.15 | chouimat | kergoth:ok |
| 18:46.56 | chouimat | kergoth: also ad the os |
| 18:47.00 | chouimat | s/ad/add |
| 18:47.03 | kergoth | ? |
| 18:47.15 | kergoth | oh, you wnat to use ipk on a bsd or something? |
| 18:47.31 | kergoth | well then we'd need a new field, not just outlining a policy on the use of an existing one ;) |
| 18:47.44 | pb_ | I don't think adding the OS makes sense. Binaries don't actually depend on an OS, they depend on a libc ABI, and that's already encoded in the Depends: libc6 or whatever. |
| 18:47.57 | kergoth | ah right |
| 18:48.31 | pb_ | admittedly, I think the debian-netbsd folks do put something like "netbsd-i386" in their Architecture: field, but that is mostly just fallout from the way debian does package management. |
| 18:49.14 | treke|laptop | grrr. this buildroot is a lost cause :) |
| 18:49.22 | pb_ | specifically, that the Architecture: in dpkg needs to match the one in the archive, and the packages for i386-linux and i386-netbsd clearly need to end up having different archive filenames or disaster would ensure. |
| 18:52.40 | chouimat|away | bbl need to take some fresh air ... |
| 18:55.15 | kergoth | hmm, okay so we have an idea for a policy on architecture, now need to adapt ipkg to check the architecture field |
| 18:55.32 | kergoth | so any machine specific packages wont be inadvertantly installed on that device |
| 18:55.36 | kergoth | i like that method |
| 18:55.47 | kergoth | we can ditch the quadrillion different feeds in favor of a few |
| 18:55.48 | treke|laptop | ~lart TheMasterMind1 |
| 18:55.56 | treke|laptop | paging the mastermind. paging the mastermind |
| 18:56.02 | TheMasterMind1 | yes |
| 18:56.03 | chouimat|away | huh? |
| 18:56.11 | TheMasterMind1 | i am listening |
| 18:58.15 | kergoth | I should upload this somewhere |
| 18:58.17 | kergoth | for users wanting to help out |
| 18:58.18 | kergoth | heh |
| 18:58.36 | treke|laptop | yeah thats gonna happen |
| 18:58.37 | chouimat|away | kergoth: I will be back in about 2 hours |
| 18:59.45 | kergoth | bleh |
| 18:59.54 | kergoth | I suppose I should start writing the openzaurus/openembedded policy manual |
| 19:00.19 | mewyn` | policy 1: users cannot access drives in "My Computer" |
| 19:00.24 | mewyn` | wait... wrong policy |
| 19:00.59 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:01.24 | treke|laptop | grrr. scheduled delivery for my ipaq is the 24th. God I hate ups ground |
| 19:03.37 | *** join/#openembedded [Lg]Ender (~Ender@dnvr-dsl-gw36-poolc157.dnvr.uswest.net) |
| 19:05.48 | *** join/#openembedded [Lg]Ender (~Ender@dnvr-dsl-gw36-poolc157.dnvr.uswest.net) |
| 19:05.55 | mewyn` | kergoth: you know of any repositories of good kernel patches? |
| 19:08.26 | *** join/#openembedded schurig (~schurig@p5080AA70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:08.29 | mickeyl|bbl | re |
| 19:08.30 | kergoth | ibot: seen onyx4 |
| 19:08.31 | | onyx4 <onyx4@adsl-63-194-216-219.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #openembedded, 14d 22h 8m 16s ago, saying: 'lol'. |
| 19:08.33 | kergoth | ibot: seen onyx4|work |
| 19:08.33 | | onyx4|work <~Onyx4@sgigate.SGI.COM> was last seen on IRC in channel #openzaurus, 33d 19h 1m 40s ago, saying: 'tronical has already done a autoconf patch to disable a lot of those things, guess I need to ask him to add dvdnav to it'. |
| 19:08.37 | kergoth | hmm |
| 19:08.43 | schurig | find | xargs Hi ! |
| 19:08.46 | kergoth | no wonder the unstabl efeed needs updating |
| 19:08.51 | kergoth | hey mickeyl, schurig |
| 19:09.01 | mickeyl | kergoth: hiho. how are you? |
| 19:09.04 | kergoth | not bad |
| 19:09.16 | kergoth | working on splitting out the init scripts |
| 19:09.21 | schurig | kergoth: did you loose your job? |
| 19:09.21 | kergoth | to easily handle inits other than sysvinit |
| 19:09.37 | kergoth | ? |
| 19:09.40 | kergoth | nope |
| 19:10.02 | kergoth | schurig: nice to see you promoting patcher on LAK :) |
| 19:10.17 | schurig | The topic here or on #openzaurus said "An oz developer has been laid". I'm not 100% sure,but isn't this phrase used when someone get's sacked? |
| 19:10.20 | mickeyl | kergoth: ah cool... anything specific in mind or just out of generality. |
| 19:10.28 | kergoth | schurig: thatd be laid off |
| 19:10.37 | kergoth | schurig: laid means something altogether different |
| 19:10.38 | schurig | hehe, and promoting OZ there, too :-) |
| 19:10.40 | mickeyl | schurig: Ha! :-D |
| 19:10.48 | kergoth | saw that |
| 19:10.49 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:10.54 | kergoth | mickeyl: I want to use simpleinit |
| 19:10.55 | schurig | hmm, then mickeyl was right. He said it had to do with women ... :-) |
| 19:11.18 | kergoth | mickeyl: http://www.atnf.csiro.au/people/rgooch/linux/boot-scripts/ |
| 19:11.30 | schurig | kergoth: I'd also like to would to move away from sysvinit |
| 19:11.31 | kergoth | mickeyl: need(8) based init system, far superior to syssvinit |
| 19:11.43 | kergoth | i was looking at jinit, sysvinit, minit, simpleinit |
| 19:11.49 | kergoth | may need to alter one of them slightly |
| 19:11.57 | kergoth | the key is, to alter our packaging to accomidate it |
| 19:11.58 | kergoth | so |
| 19:12.03 | kergoth | opie Depends on opie-init |
| 19:12.09 | kergoth | opie-init is Provided by opie-sysvinit adn opie-simpleinit |
| 19:12.20 | mickeyl | kergoth: hmm... ho! this sounds interesting. any reason why it isn't adopted in the big distributions? |
| 19:12.22 | kergoth | each of which contain the init script for the package and init in question |
| 19:12.29 | kergoth | mickeyl: /me shrugs |
| 19:12.51 | kergoth | mickeyl: its fast. boots multiple scripts at once on bootup |
| 19:12.59 | kergoth | mickeyl: tracks dependencies to ensure things dont explode |
| 19:13.36 | mickeyl | kergoth: pretty cool. |
| 19:13.49 | kergoth | yeah.. now to write new scripts for eveyrthing |
| 19:13.55 | kergoth | he provides some examples |
| 19:13.58 | kergoth | but they're redhatish in nature |
| 19:14.10 | mickeyl | kergoth: making things lean and mean II: i had a talk with the uclibc maintainer a few days ago... did you consider this for OE yet? |
| 19:14.28 | kergoth | andersee? yeah its been considered |
| 19:14.32 | kergoth | just nobody has gotten around to adding it to buildroot |
| 19:14.41 | kergoth | ;) |
| 19:14.41 | mickeyl | kergoth: cool. i think i'll experiment with it then |
| 19:14.49 | kergoth | feel free, chouimat|away keeps requesting it |
| 19:14.55 | kergoth | but i have enough shit on my plate atm |
| 19:14.57 | schurig | mickeyl: it has been adopted in "big" distributions: gentoo has it :-) |
| 19:15.09 | kergoth | gentoo uses simpleinit? |
| 19:15.28 | kergoth | i didnt realize |
| 19:15.39 | mickeyl | schurig: ever tried gentoo? any experience? |
| 19:15.39 | schurig | if not exactly simpleinit, then something very similar |
| 19:15.41 | kergoth | thought they used sysvinit like the rest of the world |
| 19:15.43 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:15.55 | kergoth | there are two main inits i'm looking at |
| 19:15.58 | kergoth | theres jinit and simpleinit |
| 19:16.08 | kergoth | simpleinit still uses an inittab for respawning items on ttys |
| 19:16.16 | schurig | kergoth: for example, /etc/init.d/gpm has one shell function: |
| 19:16.17 | schurig | depend() { |
| 19:16.18 | schurig | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:16.18 | kergoth | jinit alteres 'need' to havea --respawn function |
| 19:16.18 | schurig | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:16.18 | schurig | } |
| 19:16.32 | kergoth | and jinit therefore doenst have an inittab at all |
| 19:16.37 | schurig | and it starts with "#!/sbin/runscript" |
| 19:16.39 | kergoth | schurig: ah, yep, a need(8) based system |
| 19:16.58 | kergoth | you know what init its using? |
| 19:17.08 | kergoth | I want to review them all to determine which to adopt |
| 19:17.13 | kergoth | well, we could easily add them all |
| 19:17.15 | kergoth | with proper packaging |
| 19:17.16 | schurig | But they have an /etc/inittab as well. |
| 19:17.23 | schurig | It's used despite of sysvinit :-) |
| 19:17.26 | kergoth | problem with inittab |
| 19:17.34 | kergoth | is that a package cant add respawn of an item on a tty |
| 19:17.51 | kergoth | without hacking up a flatfile |
| 19:17.52 | kergoth | heh |
| 19:18.12 | schurig | for example, in /etc/inittab they have an entry "l2:2:wait:/sbin/rc nonetwork" and "l3:3:wait:/sbin/rc default". |
| 19:18.58 | kergoth | sounds like 'default' and 'nonetwork' are 'personalities' ala simpleinit.. |
| 19:18.58 | schurig | and from then on it's need based |
| 19:19.03 | kergoth | cool |
| 19:19.12 | kergoth | it sounds like they're using simpleinit, or a modified version of it |
| 19:19.56 | kergoth | i question keeping around inittab, but i see why they'd do it |
| 19:20.21 | kergoth | so we can swipe half of gentoo's startup scripts |
| 19:20.21 | kergoth | :D |
| 19:20.26 | kergoth | with alteration anyway |
| 19:20.54 | Dess|DragonballZ | gentoo 0wnz |
| 19:20.54 | schurig | hehe, I wanted to swipe half of gentoo build script features |
| 19:20.56 | schurig | :D |
| 19:20.59 | schurig | with alteration anyway |
| 19:21.00 | kergoth | yea |
| 19:21.05 | Dessimat0r | I'm on Gentoo atm ;) |
| 19:21.13 | kergoth | OZ/OE is going to be a weird gentoo/debian |
| 19:21.14 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:21.22 | kergoth | gentoobian |
| 19:21.26 | kergoth | god i'm bored |
| 19:21.31 | schurig | Dessimat0r: can you tell me how I can find out in gentoo in which package /sbin/runscript is? Is it some comamnd line option to emerge? |
| 19:21.35 | Dessimat0r | portage for OE? |
| 19:21.48 | schurig | kergoth: heh, and the sources & patches I too usually get from Debian :-) |
| 19:21.48 | kergoth | Dessimat0r: not exactly, we're incorporating aspects of it |
| 19:21.51 | Dessimat0r | ah |
| 19:21.55 | kergoth | yeah |
| 19:22.14 | schurig | Dessimat0r: go to www.openembedded.org, our idea think tank (nothing has been decided yet!) |
| 19:22.26 | Dessimat0r | Man, people are gonna get confused between Outlook Express and OpenEmbedded ;) |
| 19:22.32 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:22.38 | schurig | ? |
| 19:22.44 | Dessimat0r | same initials |
| 19:22.47 | Dessimat0r | OE/OE |
| 19:22.48 | Dessimat0r | hehe |
| 19:22.50 | Harlekin | Ö |
| 19:23.23 | schurig | ahhh |
| 19:23.43 | [Lg]Ender | lol |
| 19:23.50 | schurig | kergoth: have you seen #gentoo-embedded ? |
| 19:23.57 | kergoth | nope |
| 19:24.08 | schurig | here, in this network |
| 19:24.22 | mickeyl | Ö is also the title of an album by grönemeier |
| 19:24.28 | mickeyl | german popsinger |
| 19:25.54 | schurig | kergoth: the /sbin/runscript belongs to gentoo's baselayout package |
| 19:26.06 | kergoth | schurig: ah, and is there an init package? |
| 19:26.10 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:26.22 | kergoth | if so, what package is it |
| 19:26.46 | schurig | kergoth: sbin/init is baselayout, too |
| 19:26.56 | treke|laptop | kergoth: probably gonna put together a new patch tonight that updates a few things |
| 19:27.09 | kergoth | schurig: grr |
| 19:27.25 | kergoth | schurig: wheres the baselayout packages i can peek at? |
| 19:27.28 | kergoth | treke|laptop: cool |
| 19:28.20 | schurig | kergoth: you can view their rc-scripts via webcvs: http://cvs.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/gentoo-src/rc-scripts/ |
| 19:28.52 | kergoth | schurig: they have the rc scripts in one big package? |
| 19:29.42 | schurig | kergoth: not all, just some, e.g. hostname, numlock, etc |
| 19:29.51 | kergoth | schurig: eww |
| 19:30.03 | kergoth | schurig: gentoo should really be using interfaces and ifupdown :) |
| 19:30.08 | kergoth | i mean, net.eth0? |
| 19:30.09 | kergoth | ew |
| 19:30.34 | schurig | baselayout consist of this rc-scripts and sysvinit, see it's ebuild(s) at http://cvs.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/gentoo-x86/sys-apps/baselayout/ |
| 19:32.18 | schurig | interfaces? You mean redhattisch /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth? Or what? |
| 19:32.22 | kergoth | no |
| 19:32.26 | kergoth | i mean, /etc/network/interfaces |
| 19:32.36 | kergoth | and the use of ifupdown instead of calling ifconfig and dhcpcd directly |
| 19:32.53 | schurig | by the way: If you long for SIZE, then you should abandon ifconfig and simply use the "ip" utility. It's smaller and more powerful. (I have not verified the smaller claim) |
| 19:32.55 | numatrix | Do network setup program bug reports go to mantis? |
| 19:33.21 | kergoth | schurig: we're using busybox ifconfig, last i checked |
| 19:33.25 | kergoth | numatrix: yes |
| 19:33.34 | kergoth | schurig: course, we could use busybox ip too |
| 19:33.36 | kergoth | schurig: :) |
| 19:34.13 | kergoth | schurig: gentoo's scripts strikes me as a hack around the use of sysvinit.. |
| 19:34.20 | kergoth | why not just switch to an init that supports this stuff natively/ |
| 19:34.57 | kergoth | though I do like their use of shell functions rather than case statements |
| 19:34.59 | kergoth | seems cleaner |
| 19:35.17 | kergoth | but then depends on a parser for them, cant be called directly |
| 19:35.28 | kergoth | well can, but only if you have said parser |
| 19:36.00 | kergoth | okay, I say switch to a need(8) based init |
| 19:36.03 | kergoth | drop sysvinit |
| 19:36.10 | kergoth | but use gentoo's startup scripts as a base |
| 19:36.40 | kergoth | opinions? |
| 19:36.54 | kergoth | we could use gentoo's scripts directly alongside sysvinit, but it strikes me as pointless |
| 19:36.55 | schurig | kergoth: I guess they do this twofold thing so that they a) use internally the better need(8) based system but stay b) compatible with external applications (like Oracle or whatever) that uses sysvinit stuff |
| 19:37.29 | treke|laptop | I dont think wee need to wory about oracle compatibility :) |
| 19:37.39 | kergoth | schurig: simpleinit could run normal init scripts.. just without 'need' lines in say oracle's scripts, the dependencies wouldnt be correct |
| 19:37.59 | kergoth | regardless it could be done cleanly |
| 19:38.13 | schurig | kergoth: how don't rely on Oracle so much, so we could get rid of sysvinit. HOWEVER if ever some external software vender produces some auto-routing app with a GPS thingy which uses some daemons, then their *.ipk might need sysvinit. Could we then make some "empty" compatibility sysvinit? |
| 19:38.26 | kergoth | .. |
| 19:38.29 | kergoth | they wouldnt need sysvinit |
| 19:38.34 | kergoth | they'd just drop a script into /etc/init.d |
| 19:38.38 | kergoth | yeah, we coudl do it |
| 19:38.39 | schurig | ok, got that |
| 19:38.44 | kergoth | just create sysvinit compatibility script |
| 19:38.46 | kergoth | in /sbin/init.d |
| 19:38.52 | kergoth | that calls the /etc/init.d shit if it exists |
| 19:38.59 | kergoth | and runs at the end of the boot process |
| 19:39.07 | kergoth | to ensure the lack of dependencies wont break thenm |
| 19:39.08 | kergoth | them |
| 19:40.23 | mickeyl | kergoth: this -fomit-frame-pointer thing scares me. any deeper insight how this b0rke libc? |
| 19:40.30 | kergoth | so yeah, we just include a sysvinit compatibility startup script with the simpleinit package |
| 19:40.38 | kergoth | mickeyl: no idea.. didnt dig in depth.. |
| 19:43.15 | schurig | mickeyl: I think it's a fault to compile a library with -fomit-frame-pointer anyway. Doing so would make it impossible to do any serious debugging with gdb/gdbserver |
| 19:43.37 | kergoth | according to pb thats a problem in gdb |
| 19:43.40 | kergoth | that it requires the fp |
| 19:43.48 | schurig | it might even be the case that glibc does internal things with the frame pointer to be threadsafe |
| 19:44.28 | mickeyl | schurig: that sounds possible, yeah |
| 19:44.33 | schurig | kergoth: without a framepointer NO debugger would use how big the amount of space for static variables is and couldn't therefore walk the stack down to generate a backtrace |
| 19:44.41 | schurig | s/use/know/ |
| 19:45.04 | kergoth | schurig: talk to him, not me, I lack the knowledge of how the framepointer is utilized |
| 19:48.30 | schurig | kergoth: I patched my version of modutils so that I don't see so much modules.conf is newer than modules.dep. Happens due to time differences between my devel box and my hardware platform (where I haven't yet written the i2c driver to the clock chip) |
| 19:48.43 | schurig | should we patch this globally? |
| 19:48.51 | schurig | mickeyl|tv: what do you watch? |
| 19:48.54 | kergoth | schurig: yeah i saw it, and changed my local modutils to apply it globally |
| 19:48.57 | kergoth | schurig: ill push it in a few |
| 19:48.57 | schurig | StarGate? |
| 19:49.08 | mickeyl|tv | schurig: sex and the city - videotaped from yesterday :) |
| 19:49.19 | schurig | würg |
| 19:49.23 | mickeyl|tv | hahaha |
| 19:49.38 | mickeyl|tv | my wife loves it and I am a sweety and watch it with here |
| 19:49.49 | *** join/#openembedded noda (~noda@modemcable063.97-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 19:49.51 | noda | Moo! |
| 19:49.56 | kergoth | yo noda |
| 19:49.58 | mickeyl|tv | her even |
| 19:50.04 | mickeyl|tv | bbl |
| 19:50.09 | schurig | noda: you must have a "Moo!" script in your irc client |
| 19:50.16 | noda | schurig: No, I'm too lazy :) |
| 19:50.29 | schurig | tehn you have quick fingers |
| 19:50.33 | noda | I choose prolonged inconvenience over one-time learning. |
| 19:50.36 | noda | Yep :) |
| 19:50.45 | noda | >100WPM. I don't really know how fast they are. |
| 19:51.04 | TheMasterMind1 | i wonder what my wpm is |
| 19:51.04 | schurig | 100 words per month? Ok, I take that with the quick fingers back. |
| 19:51.10 | TheMasterMind1 | any linux proggies to check |
| 19:51.15 | kergoth | I havent timed myself in ages, i figure i'm probably around 80 |
| 19:51.17 | noda | TheMasterMind1: gtypist |
| 19:51.22 | noda | Actually, I'll time myself now |
| 19:52.00 | schurig | system terrorist: every week a hit |
| 19:52.51 | kergoth | jeeze i need to switch the hostap ML to digest mode |
| 19:53.21 | noda | Raw speed: 114wpm. Adjusted speed: 109.71wpm. |
| 19:53.33 | kergoth | heh, damn |
| 19:53.34 | noda | But I don't agree with the adjusted speed. I put spaces instead of newlines :P |
| 19:53.42 | schurig | kergoth: did get my PCMCIA working yesterday morning. The first app (after the wlan0 was up) then was kismet |
| 19:53.43 | TheMasterMind1 | ooh |
| 19:53.44 | TheMasterMind1 | 80wpm |
| 19:53.50 | TheMasterMind1 | i got 80.57WPM |
| 19:53.50 | kergoth | schurig: nice |
| 19:54.08 | schurig | kergoth: and today I've got my MMC slot to work, mounted a 64 MB mmc card. |
| 19:54.13 | TheMasterMind1 | whoa, 112wpm |
| 19:54.15 | TheMasterMind1 | sweet |
| 19:54.19 | schurig | kergoth: mmc is now part of -rmk6-pxa1 |
| 19:54.24 | schurig | so it was a no-brainer |
| 19:54.25 | kergoth | schurig: ah.. what mmc layer? |
| 19:54.30 | kergoth | schurig: handhelds or that other one? |
| 19:54.44 | schurig | no idea |
| 19:54.44 | kergoth | i assume its the other |
| 19:55.25 | schurig | so I still have USB host, i2c and APM. Isn't life rich of adventures? |
| 19:55.29 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:55.31 | TheMasterMind1 | aw, only 54wpm |
| 19:55.36 | TheMasterMind1 | with the long one |
| 19:55.44 | noda | I don't believe in typing tests. Whenever I make a mistake I lose a half-second because I usually make tons of mistakes and rely on my backspace key -- which is much faster. |
| 19:55.54 | noda | I was using speed lesson 3 (Charles Dickens) |
| 19:56.29 | *** join/#openembedded tronical (~simon@fauia27.informatik.uni-erlangen.de) |
| 19:56.34 | TheMasterMind1 | yea |
| 19:56.36 | TheMasterMind1 | i can type fast |
| 19:56.40 | TheMasterMind1 | good enough for me |
| 19:56.46 | schurig | TheMasterMind1: I can type fast, too. |
| 19:56.48 | TheMasterMind1 | i'm faster at unix command and stuff anyway |
| 19:56.49 | schurig | xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
| 19:56.56 | schurig | It's just so boring for readers |
| 19:56.59 | treke|laptop | the thing I dont like about the tests is I screw up because I cant read and type something well :) |
| 19:57.04 | TheMasterMind1 | heh yea |
| 19:57.19 | kergoth | hmm |
| 19:57.27 | schurig | treke|laptop: so memorize the text |
| 19:57.48 | schurig | Q: Why do you know Charles Dickens by heart? A: because I like typing tests |
| 19:58.06 | kergoth | move modules and init.d/modutils from oz-base to modutils, modutils Conflicts with oz-base (<=3.1-rc1-pre-3), should make it upgrade oz-base first, then modutils, right? |
| 19:58.17 | noda | TheMasterMind1: You're not the only one who's faster on unix commands :P |
| 19:58.22 | noda | Or typing in vim... |
| 19:58.31 | kergoth | I need to ensure they upgrade in the right order, because the old oz-base provides files the new modutils provides |
| 19:58.44 | kergoth | but i dont want an explicit interdependency, because they're independent packages |
| 19:59.03 | kergoth | isnt handling upgrades fun? |
| 19:59.41 | schurig | hehe, so our new buildutil should know something like UPGRADE_BEFORE_ME=... |
| 19:59.42 | TheMasterMind1 | wtf, stupid gtypist |
| 19:59.45 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:59.47 | treke|laptop | upgrades are overrated |
| 19:59.47 | TheMasterMind1 | what are you supposed to do with it wraps |
| 19:59.51 | TheMasterMind1 | press enter or what |
| 19:59.59 | TheMasterMind1 | i have an error at the end of every line |
| 19:59.59 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 20:00.09 | TheMasterMind1 | other than that i did well |
| 20:00.10 | noda | TheMasterMind1: Ditto. Sucky, eh? |
| 20:00.13 | TheMasterMind1 | ya |
| 20:00.20 | treke|laptop | hehe I keep screwing up beause iI make a mistake and hit esc x :) |
| 20:00.20 | Dessimat0r | what you need is to make a dependency tree of all required dependencies |
| 20:00.25 | noda | And when you make a mistake, you have to somehow align your entire mind back to where it was, even if you're thinking a line in advance... |
| 20:00.30 | noda | Really disconcerting. |
| 20:00.30 | kergoth | Dessimat0r: eh? |
| 20:00.32 | TheMasterMind1 | treke|laptop: lol |
| 20:00.35 | kergoth | Dessimat0r: what do you think pacakage management systems do? |
| 20:00.36 | schurig | kergoth: BTW, I didn't see you heavily modifiing the OE wiki |
| 20:00.37 | noda | I don't think typing tests are made for fast typers :P |
| 20:00.48 | kergoth | schurig: most of it looks pretty much how i'd like to see it |
| 20:00.48 | noda | Oh, speaking of the OE wiki, I have a question... |
| 20:00.51 | treke|laptop | ah shoot misspelled it, ESC-b-cw |
| 20:00.55 | kergoth | schurig: I'll tweak a couple things |
| 20:00.58 | Dessimat0r | fucking hell, none of my trousers fit anymore |
| 20:01.03 | kergoth | schurig: i added a couple NOTE:'s from me for clarification |
| 20:01.09 | treke|laptop | Dessimat0r: so dont wear any |
| 20:01.10 | noda | I don't understand why we need a db if we're using .oe files, or why we need files if we're using a db. |
| 20:01.16 | Dessimat0r | lmao |
| 20:01.29 | schurig | noda: we don't NEED a db. Gentoo doesn't use one. And it works. |
| 20:01.31 | kergoth | noda: operations on the db are faster |
| 20:01.34 | kergoth | noda: think of it as a cache |
| 20:01.43 | schurig | noda: however, if we use on (like RPM), then many things will be faster |
| 20:01.59 | treke|laptop | Dessimat0r: that is the first step to making your trousers fit |
| 20:02.13 | noda | Okay, but implementing it will be another whole layer's worth of bugs... I dunno, I'm wary :) |
| 20:02.21 | Dessimat0r | treke|laptop: using a database instead of files? |
| 20:02.27 | kergoth | noda: eh? not really |
| 20:02.28 | schurig | noda: when I did qpkg -f /sbin/init, I heard heavy disk activitiy. I fear the thing did heavy grepping. In rpm, it's a query to a Berkely Database |
| 20:02.29 | treke|laptop | Dessimat0r: no, laughing your ass off |
| 20:02.32 | Dessimat0r | lol |
| 20:02.37 | kergoth | noda: all it has to do is pull in key/value pairs from a text file into a table |
| 20:02.41 | kergoth | noda: simple parser |
| 20:02.57 | noda | Okay. |
| 20:03.20 | noda | So this is instead of, say, coding an editing interface for the db files themselves. |
| 20:03.51 | schurig | Hmm, my qpkg -f example was a bad example. I'm not going to put file paths into a table. /me is too sleepy, me thinks |
| 20:03.57 | kergoth | yeah, its cleaner, dont need a shitload of utils to work with the system |
| 20:04.17 | noda | Okay. But the flipside is that if we ever DO make utils, we'll have to make them for two interfaces -- the db and the files. |
| 20:04.32 | kergoth | ? |
| 20:04.36 | schurig | noda: no. Why for the files? |
| 20:04.38 | kergoth | at which point we can drop the flatfiles |
| 20:04.42 | noda | Ah. |
| 20:04.45 | kergoth | because we have the utils |
| 20:04.49 | kergoth | theres no need for both |
| 20:04.54 | noda | Gotcha. |
| 20:05.01 | schurig | the files are just there because they are handled good by tools like bitkeeper. |
| 20:05.19 | noda | So (to wrap my mind around it) the files are there because they are a simple interface to the DB. |
| 20:05.31 | schurig | And you can point you web browser at them, much better than to chunks inside a binary database :-) |
| 20:05.32 | kergoth | and because you can diff against textfiles |
| 20:05.39 | kergoth | user can email a diff against it easy |
| 20:05.40 | kergoth | that too |
| 20:05.56 | noda | Well if users want to email diffs against files, then we'll need to keep files forever, even if we DO make utils. |
| 20:06.06 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 20:06.25 | TheMasterMind1 | oof, xml |
| 20:06.25 | kergoth | noda: at which point we dropped the flatfiles and they can no longer supply simple diffs |
| 20:06.26 | numatrix | Hmm, I just upgraded to the unstable feed and when I enabled screen clicks and keyboard clicks, I get no sound. Plus, there's an item about a collie module missing when I boot. |
| 20:06.30 | kergoth | whats the problem? |
| 20:06.35 | kergoth | we are going with this for a reason |
| 20:06.38 | schurig | noda: my idea was that some parser get's over those files and creates the key/value pairs and stores them into the db. The parser could also store the path/URI of the file itselt and it's mtime, so that it can check later it has to reparse or not, but that's sugar. |
| 20:06.41 | kergoth | at no point did we ever say we're adding utilities |
| 20:06.44 | kergoth | thats your assumption |
| 20:06.48 | schurig | All tools (usually pyhton) get the data out of the db |
| 20:07.02 | TheMasterMind1 | can someone tell me what we're talking about |
| 20:07.11 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: openembedded infrastructure |
| 20:07.15 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: http://openembedded.org |
| 20:07.16 | kergoth | TheMasterMind1: read up |
| 20:07.18 | noda | Okay. I'm just a data normalization freak, I can't stand to see the same data in 2 files. |
| 20:07.36 | kergoth | by doing it this way we get the best of both worlds. |
| 20:07.44 | noda | ...and the worst :) |
| 20:07.48 | kergoth | ? |
| 20:07.57 | kergoth | no, the best of one complements the worst of the other |
| 20:08.03 | kergoth | in total our needs are met |
| 20:08.15 | schurig | noda: hmm, why do those shitty compilers create *.o files? We have the same data in the *.cpp file, doesn't we? :-) |
| 20:08.20 | noda | I hope so. You're probably right, you guys are smarter than me :) |
| 20:08.22 | kergoth | haha |
| 20:08.25 | kergoth | nice analogy |
| 20:08.56 | noda | schurig: Yeah, good analogy. Makes sense :) |
| 20:09.43 | schurig | Suppose we create a cgi that let you get package info, like packages.debian.org. It's much faster (and easier!) to get those stuff out of a DB than to parse and reparse files again. |
| 20:09.50 | schurig | That's my main reason for a DB. |
| 20:09.59 | noda | Yes, but we have to make sure the DB is in sync. |
| 20:10.00 | schurig | Functionality wise I could do all from the files. |
| 20:10.00 | kergoth | yep |
| 20:10.09 | kergoth | noda: easilyi done. shit even gnu make timestamps could do that |
| 20:10.15 | kergoth | noda: if its older, update |
| 20:10.17 | kergoth | .. |
| 20:10.34 | noda | I know, but what if people are lazy and don't update it :) |
| 20:10.38 | TheMasterMind1 | hmm, why not use something like sqllite or cdb, etc |
| 20:10.44 | TheMasterMind1 | with the python module to access it |
| 20:10.45 | noda | Or xml... |
| 20:10.53 | kergoth | .. |
| 20:10.56 | kergoth | ~lart TheMasterMind1 |
| 20:11.02 | kergoth | what do you think we're talking about? |
| 20:11.05 | noda | Yeah, I think TheMasterMind1's got something there. If you want to do database queries, db isn't exactly the best interface. |
| 20:11.12 | kergoth | oi |
| 20:11.13 | schurig | If the URI for the flat file and it's mtime is as well stored into the db, then the db can be auto-updated. |
| 20:11.13 | kergoth | idiots |
| 20:11.14 | noda | A db file only holds one table, you can't do joins. |
| 20:11.19 | kergoth | SQLITE USES A DB FILE! |
| 20:11.25 | kergoth | its just a fucking sql interface |
| 20:11.27 | kergoth | big deal |
| 20:11.31 | noda | Oh. Cool! :) |
| 20:11.38 | noda | Nice to know :) |
| 20:11.41 | kergoth | heh |
| 20:11.57 | TheMasterMind1 | many *.oe files might look like shell scriptlets |
| 20:12.01 | TheMasterMind1 | thats what threw me off |
| 20:12.03 | kergoth | .. |
| 20:12.05 | Dessimat0r | i was going to install Qtopia Desktop for Linux before, but the amount of dependencies scared me |
| 20:12.08 | kergoth | they match shell format for a reason |
| 20:12.12 | kergoth | they're supposed to look like shell |
| 20:12.18 | treke|laptop | Dessimat0r: the amount of dependencies? |
| 20:12.23 | treke|laptop | Dessimat0r: you mean like qt3? |
| 20:12.25 | schurig | I think berkelydb should be used so that anyone can simply download the OE build environment and start. No need to install some *SQL database, create tables etc. |
| 20:12.32 | Dessimat0r | yeah, about 15 unfilled depencies |
| 20:12.40 | kergoth | Dessimat0r: ? |
| 20:12.43 | kergoth | Dessimat0r: qt != 15 |
| 20:12.53 | Dessimat0r | no ,certain libaries, etc |
| 20:12.54 | schurig | Many things of the table creation can be automated (I once wrote the automatic table update code for bugzilla), but it's still a pain |
| 20:12.59 | kergoth | Dessimat0r: ? |
| 20:13.04 | schurig | using a db makes the entry level way lower |
| 20:13.25 | Dessimat0r | ld-linux.so.2 is needed by qtopia-desktop-1.6.0-1, libGL.so.1 is needed by qtopia-desktop-1.6.0-1 etc |
| 20:13.29 | kergoth | yeah, could use a sqlite layer later quite easily |
| 20:13.34 | kergoth | Dessimat0r: lol |
| 20:13.35 | treke|laptop | haha |
| 20:13.38 | kergoth | Dessimat0r: dood, every linux system has ld-linux.so.2 |
| 20:13.41 | kergoth | jesus |
| 20:13.42 | Dessimat0r | none are in portage :/ |
| 20:13.43 | kergoth | ~lart Dessimat0r |
| 20:13.47 | TheMasterMind1 | schurig: it won't be a db like mysql etc, nothing that requires setting up. sqllite and stuff just access a flatfile |
| 20:13.47 | kergoth | Dessimat0r: who gives a shit? |
| 20:13.49 | schurig | kergoth: in this case I would have to look more at sqllite |
| 20:13.52 | TheMasterMind1 | shit, i feel dizzy |
| 20:13.54 | Dessimat0r | why is it moaning about it then? |
| 20:13.55 | Dessimat0r | hehe |
| 20:14.10 | kergoth | Dessimat0r: its just wants to fuck with you |
| 20:14.15 | kergoth | Dessimat0r: and it knows its easy to do |
| 20:14.15 | treke|laptop | Dessimat0r: because its a fucking rpm |
| 20:14.15 | Dessimat0r | rofl |
| 20:14.15 | noda | Is there a PHP interface to sqlite? (I guess if there isn't I could write the bindings...) |
| 20:14.17 | kergoth | Dessimat0r: :P |
| 20:14.24 | Dessimat0r | lmao |
| 20:14.25 | treke|laptop | Dessimat0r: and you arent using an rpm based distro |
| 20:14.27 | kergoth | noda: yes |
| 20:14.29 | schurig | holger baselayout # qpkg -f /lib/ld-linux.so.2 |
| 20:14.29 | schurig | sys-libs/glibc * |
| 20:14.39 | Dessimat0r | I'll just force it to install without dependencie |
| 20:14.42 | Dessimat0r | *s |
| 20:14.44 | noda | Cool. That'd definitely be a Cool Thing for the website :) |
| 20:14.45 | Dessimat0r | and see what happens |
| 20:14.46 | Dessimat0r | hehe |
| 20:14.46 | schurig | Dessimat0r: sure there is ld-linux.so.2 on gentoo! |
| 20:14.53 | kergoth | lol |
| 20:14.56 | noda | rofl |
| 20:14.58 | treke|laptop | libGL comes with most any xfree86 instal |
| 20:14.59 | kergoth | hey, lets beat up Dessimat0r some more |
| 20:15.01 | kergoth | ~lart Dessimat0r |
| 20:15.07 | treke|laptop | ~kill Dessimat0r |
| 20:15.13 | | ACTION slits Dessimat0r's throat |
| 20:15.45 | schurig | hmm, what was again that english word for this herb "Baldrian" ? |
| 20:17.16 | Dessimat0r | ahh, i see whats up, Gentoo uses no rpms, and so none of the dependencies are fulfilled, while the libaries are actually there |
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| 20:23.01 | schurig | kergoth: what do you mean with "base system ala debian" ? |
| 20:23.13 | schurig | Is that something like oz-base ? |
| 20:23.25 | kergoth | er, where is this? |
| 20:23.31 | kergoth | hell if i know what i meant.. |
| 20:23.32 | schurig | In this case I agree, OE should not have something like this. Some people might want OE for a washing-machine controller :-) |
| 20:23.55 | schurig | I thought the "bug1" comments are from you, its at the end of the BuildSystem wiki page |
| 20:24.22 | schurig | the last line, actually |
| 20:24.22 | kergoth | ah yeah, i was soliciting comments yesterday |
| 20:24.28 | kergoth | bug1, nelson, monmotha, etc |
| 20:24.44 | kergoth | yeah i dont think he realizes that OZ/OE already doesnt have a base package |
| 20:24.52 | kergoth | that everything is handled via the package manager |
| 20:24.52 | kergoth | heh |
| 20:25.40 | Dessimat0r | ah crap, the KDE desktop has 'frozen' |
| 20:25.40 | schurig | I'm not sure if the "C library" suggestion gives us many things. I guess we have a faster start in python. |
| 20:25.55 | kergoth | agreed |
| 20:26.07 | kergoth | a c library on the target maybe yes, but for the _build_ packaging tools? .. |
| 20:26.11 | kergoth | heh |
| 20:26.36 | treke|laptop | ~lart trolltechsftpsite |
| 20:26.41 | schurig | some target's may use ipkg, others just want to have root file images as cramfs and no alterations whatsoever. |
| 20:27.07 | kergoth | yeah |
| 20:38.06 | noda | WOO! I've just finished my flow charts for finding the nth prime :) |
| 20:38.14 | kergoth | fun |
| 20:38.18 | noda | ...now to write this out in brainfuck :) |
| 20:38.27 | kergoth | evil |
| 20:38.45 | noda | Erm. s/names/positions/, this is brainfuck :P |
| 20:38.54 | kergoth | hehe |
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| 20:39.12 | noda | This will be SO cool when I finish it :) |
| 20:40.19 | Dessimat0r | noda: i thought that finding the nth prime was impossible (quickly) |
| 20:40.40 | noda | Dessimat0r: quickly? Hell yes. Here all I can use is, thinking in C: |
| 20:40.51 | noda | char *p = malloc(30000); |
| 20:40.56 | Dessimat0r | ah |
| 20:41.23 | noda | And then one of the following: p++, p--, *p++, *p--, while(*p) {, }, getchar(p), putchar(p) |
| 20:41.35 | Dessimat0r | can it be done without using trail and error? |
| 20:41.38 | Dessimat0r | *trial |
| 20:41.56 | noda | Well, I'm sure I'll make some typos, and they'll be DAMNED hard to debug, but if I get the "subroutines" correct, I should be dandy. |
| 20:42.03 | Dessimat0r | hehe |
| 20:42.09 | noda | (i.e., "find lowest y that divides into x", etc) |
| 20:42.34 | noda | It's all within my abilities though! I KNOW I can do this! :) |
| 20:42.53 | noda | ...not tonight though, I have homework that *isn't* due at the end of the semester to do tonight :P |
| 20:44.30 | Dessimat0r | heh |
| 20:45.31 | Dessimat0r | semesters = term and half-terms over here ;) |
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| 21:03.53 | Harlekin | hey Cloud |
| 21:04.08 | kergoth | hi cloud |
| 21:05.08 | ljp_work | hello cloud |
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| 21:06.49 | ljp_work | boring day or what?! |
| 21:09.58 | schurig | kergoth: I didn't had BK write access from home, so I just sent you another ssh pub key |
| 21:10.04 | kergoth | schurig: k |
| 21:12.03 | treke|laptop | schurig: you could do more than one key I think |
| 21:12.14 | mickeyl | d'oh! |
| 21:12.26 | mickeyl | cd /usr/local/projects/openzaurus/build/tcpdump-3.7.1; autoconf; |
| 21:12.26 | mickeyl | configure.in:1: error: possibly undefined macro: dnl |
| 21:12.26 | mickeyl | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:12.26 | mickeyl | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:12.26 | mickeyl | configure.in:510: error: do not use LIBOBJS directly, use AC_LIBOBJ (see section `AC_LIBOBJ vs LIBOBJS' |
| 21:12.27 | mickeyl | make[2]: *** [/usr/local/projects/openzaurus/stamps/.tcpdump.binary] Fehler 1 |
| 21:12.51 | kergoth | sounds liek patch time |
| 21:12.52 | mickeyl | kergoth: did you adjust the paths so that $(STAGING_BINDIR) is preferred ? |
| 21:13.01 | kergoth | BINDIR is first in PATH |
| 21:13.04 | kergoth | look in Vars.make |
| 21:13.15 | kergoth | echo $(PATH) in your binary target to see |
| 21:13.35 | mickeyl | ok, checking. this worked earlier, so I'm wondering... |
| 21:16.29 | schurig | mickeyl: do your BINDIR/auto* use the right data files? |
| 21:16.48 | kergoth | yeah, he sets the prefix on the configure line to staging, iirc |
| 21:20.56 | schurig | kergoth: assuming you added the key, what would the bk clone command be "bk clone http://schurig@openzaurus.bkbits.net/buildroot buildroot-oz" ? |
| 21:21.09 | kergoth | openzaurus@openzaurus.bkbits.net |
| 21:23.40 | kenb | Ensure BK_USER=schurig in your environment variables. |
| 21:25.58 | schurig | it is |
| 21:29.17 | kergoth | schurig: done |
| 21:30.08 | schurig | kergoth:thanks. Already cloning :-) |
| 21:30.17 | kergoth | :) |
| 21:30.38 | schurig | I wish there would an option to make BK not become slower and slower over time |
| 21:30.53 | kergoth | hehe |
| 21:31.07 | ljp_work | dont run it on windows |
| 21:31.08 | kergoth | what, like only retrieve history back to a certain changeset? |
| 21:31.25 | kergoth | you can always bk export, but then you get no history at all, and no SCCS :) |
| 21:31.48 | schurig | sometimes when I do a "bk pull", it pulls the stuff and applies the patches. But then the check takes ages. |
| 21:33.01 | kergoth | hehe |
| 21:33.04 | kergoth | i hate that |
| 21:33.07 | mickeyl | becoming slower is an inherent problem of repositories storing differences... no way out there or storing full info on checkpoints... hmm... feature suggestion |
| 21:33.35 | kergoth | well, bitkeeper being peer based rather than client server results in this |
| 21:33.59 | schurig | Hmm, maybe one should from time to time start with a new repository, e.g. one for OE from 2.x to 2.99, one for 3.x to 3.99 and so on |
| 21:34.13 | TheMasterMind1 | that would be hell |
| 21:34.36 | schurig | and somehow I have the feeling that bk at check time also looks around in build/* and it's subdirectories. HEAVY disk activity. |
| 21:34.57 | schurig | TheMasterMind1: why? |
| 21:35.04 | TheMasterMind1 | nm |
| 21:36.16 | ljp_work | so it can publish your files |
| 21:37.17 | treke|laptop | build and source are ignored |
| 21:38.29 | treke|laptop | if it wasnt you'd have a nasty changeset :) |
| 21:39.15 | noda | Moo! |
| 21:39.57 | TheMasterMind1 | heh |
| 21:40.31 | kergoth | schurig: you tried cloning the linux 2.4 or 2.5 bk trees? |
| 21:40.38 | kergoth | schurig: now _thats_ one hell of a history |
| 21:40.46 | kergoth | hehe |
| 21:41.03 | schurig | kergoth: yes, I cloned the usb-2.4 and usb-2.5 trees. And once Linus' tree. |
| 21:41.26 | kergoth | HEHE |
| 21:41.28 | kergoth | er |
| 21:41.29 | kergoth | damn caps |
| 21:41.35 | kergoth | takes a while |
| 21:42.12 | schurig | on Linus' tree I would not even use "bk citool". It's slow on our tree, but slower there. |
| 21:42.18 | kergoth | yep |
| 21:42.34 | kergoth | maybe they should use our idea |
| 21:42.46 | kergoth | cache the data from parsing the files into a lil db |
| 21:42.50 | kergoth | :) |
| 21:42.51 | chouimat|away | TABARNACK! |
| 21:45.40 | noda | kergoth: fyi: sqlite doesn't use berkeley DB files. |
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| 21:46.40 | schurig | may be. But it has nice python bindings (and bindings to various other languages) |
| 21:46.53 | kergoth | hm, guess i was mistaken |
| 21:46.57 | noda | Yeah, looks like sqlite is more what we need than berkeley db :) |
| 21:47.09 | kergoth | so what format is it then? |
| 21:47.21 | kergoth | something of its own i guess eh |
| 21:47.27 | noda | Yep. |
| 21:47.39 | pb__ | kergoth: yeah, some custom binary format. |
| 21:48.11 | kergoth | regardless, its spiffy :) |
| 21:48.15 | mickeyl | yep |
| 21:48.23 | pb__ | indeed :-) |
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| 21:55.02 | schurig | old versions of sqllite used gdbm |
| 21:55.06 | schurig | http://www.sqlite.org/formatchng.html |
| 21:55.09 | kergoth | ahh |
| 21:58.18 | chouimat|away | DAMN! |
| 21:59.02 | treke|laptop | kergoth: do I need to make any changes to the oz-base Makefile for the new devdetect stuff, or is it not ready for prime time? |
| 21:59.48 | kergoth | treke|laptop: you'll want to add identify.blah for each machine type |
| 21:59.56 | treke|laptop | doing that right now |
| 22:00.13 | treke|laptop | wasnt sure if I should start removing the stuff from my ifdef CONFIG_TARGET_IPAQ |
| 22:00.20 | kergoth | nah, leave it for now |
| 22:00.23 | kergoth | just add the identifcation bits |
| 22:00.25 | kergoth | i'll do the rest |
| 22:00.33 | treke|laptop | ok. |
| 22:03.16 | kergoth | treke|laptop: i'm revamping half our init scripts and how they're packaged, so i'll make them use the new ident bits when i do so |
| 22:03.36 | treke|laptop | kergoth: you come up with any sort of solution? |
| 22:03.44 | chouimat | anyone got a lexar 128MB 4x CF? |
| 22:07.36 | ljp_work | whats a CD? |
| 22:07.39 | ljp_work | err CF |
| 22:07.46 | schurig | compact flash |
| 22:07.50 | ljp_work | hehe |
| 22:07.57 | ljp_work | I know. |
| 22:08.02 | ljp_work | I'm a little bored |
| 22:08.17 | noda | ljp_work: It really wasn't so funny the hundredth time... but it's getting funnier now :) |
| 22:08.28 | schurig | then do some creative stuff, e.g. invent a method to change water into heavy oil |
| 22:08.41 | noda | Or write a function to calculate the nth prime number in brainfuck! :) |
| 22:08.57 | ljp_work | actually, I am cleaning up my alsa stuff for helix, so I can submit it |
| 22:09.03 | noda | Ooh fun :) |
| 22:09.24 | noda | ljp_work: What do you use as a mixer program for alsa? alsamixer? |
| 22:10.09 | ljp_work | ya, or alsamixergui |
| 22:10.15 | chouimat | grrrr just bought an used casio be-300 but since I don't have windows I can't reset it to factory default ..... :( |
| 22:10.20 | noda | Will check it out |
| 22:10.48 | ljp_work | I still have yet to set up my multichannel card for the multi channels |
| 22:11.04 | noda | What's your card? |
| 22:11.08 | schurig | I like this: Q: Is SQLite threadsafe? A: Yes. Sometimes. |
| 22:11.15 | kergoth | schurig: lol |
| 22:11.29 | noda | Ooh. I don't have fltk, damn :) |
| 22:11.30 | kergoth | schurig: do they have locking? if so, is it by row or by table? :) |
| 22:11.51 | noda | Locking? It's possible to have multiple accesses to the db at once? |
| 22:11.56 | schurig | kergoth: by file. A all tables and records are in ONE file |
| 22:12.08 | schurig | kergoth: http://www.sqlite.org/faq.html |
| 22:12.13 | kergoth | ah |
| 22:12.14 | kergoth | gotcha |
| 22:12.21 | schurig | (7) |
| 22:12.24 | noda | schurig: We prefer your condensed, semi-digested comments :) |
| 22:12.27 | kergoth | hehe |
| 22:14.00 | treke|laptop | hmmmm. think I may be moving my oz builds to our new server |
| 22:14.15 | treke|laptop | dual p4s :) |
| 22:15.08 | noda | Ooooh :) |
| 22:15.25 | treke|laptop | comes up as 4 cpus :) |
| 22:15.49 | noda | Oh, hyperthreaded cpus? |
| 22:15.58 | treke|laptop | yup |
| 22:16.05 | noda | Awesome :) |
| 22:17.44 | schurig | THAT must be a warm laptop :-) |
| 22:17.54 | treke|laptop | hehe |
| 22:17.59 | treke|laptop | big lap also |
| 22:18.04 | ljp_work | ohh, ogg has some diffs for helix, finally |
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| 22:24.58 | ljp_work | noda: rme digi96 PST |
| 22:25.27 | noda | Ah. |
| 22:26.24 | ljp_work | rme has a light pipe in/out that has 8 channels |
| 22:26.35 | noda | Oh, it's a professional-type card? |
| 22:26.39 | ljp_work | 8 in/ 8 out |
| 22:26.42 | ljp_work | yup |
| 22:26.52 | treke|laptop | kergoth: its amazing. an oz build made it from clone to built all without trouble :) |
| 22:26.53 | noda | Sweeeet :) |
| 22:27.16 | ljp_work | ye, rme makes them built like tanks, too. thick pc card |
| 22:28.29 | kergoth | treke|laptop: nice |
| 22:29.21 | ljp_work | I should really find my light pipe |
| 22:29.34 | ljp_work | I think I loaned it to a friend a long time ago |
| 22:29.38 | treke|laptop | yeah, you've had enough of your crack pipe |
| 22:29.42 | ljp_work | hehe |
| 22:29.53 | ljp_work | ya, smoking light is much better for ya |
| 22:42.23 | schurig | going to bed |
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| 22:54.07 | kenb | treke: lucky you. I haven't had a fulling building bk in over 2 weeks |
| 22:54.26 | treke|laptop | kenb: then check it out right now :) |
| 22:54.38 | kenb | I just did, hoping. |
| 22:54.46 | kenb | tslib fails to build :( |
| 22:54.48 | treke|laptop | if not, I can tar mine up |
| 22:54.53 | treke|laptop | oh, well I dont build tslib |
| 22:54.55 | kenb | and oz-base |
| 22:54.57 | kenb | *** Error: CONTROL/conffiles mentions conffile /etc/modules which does not exist |
| 22:55.11 | kenb | Yea, I dropped tslib for now too |
| 22:55.16 | kergoth | not surprising |
| 22:55.23 | kergoth | I forgot to update conffiles :) |
| 22:56.11 | kenb | I dunno where to even get them from |
| 22:56.17 | kergoth | ? |
| 22:56.19 | kergoth | you dont |
| 22:56.23 | kergoth | those files arent in oz-base anymore |
| 22:56.25 | kergoth | they're where they belong |
| 22:56.32 | kenb | okay... |
| 22:56.39 | kergoth | ipkg.conf is in ipkg, /etc/modules is in modutils, resolv.conf is in libc6 |
| 22:56.58 | kenb | so I need to ensure I have them enabled then |
| 22:57.08 | kergoth | and you wait for me to update the conffijles |
| 22:57.10 | kergoth | conffiles |
| 22:57.14 | kenb | ah |
| 22:58.14 | kergoth | hm, /etc/nsswitch.conf and /etc/host.conf should probably be conffiles eh? |
| 22:58.28 | kenb | yea :) |
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| 23:02.22 | kergoth | kenb: bk pull; bk -r co -q; and try again |
| 23:02.34 | kergoth | kenb: think i got em all |
| 23:02.37 | kenb | k |
| 23:02.47 | kenb | 1I just did a make clean on my tree too |
| 23:03.47 | kenb | I suppose now it'll be a few hours to build stuff |
| 23:04.25 | kenb | Is buildroot smart enought to rebuild packages if bk updates them ? |
| 23:04.33 | kergoth | nope |
| 23:04.40 | kenb | :( |
| 23:04.54 | kergoth | it can be done, with some careful generation of md5sums based on sources, build steps, etc portions of hte makefiles |
| 23:04.55 | kenb | So the only true safe way to do things is to make clean before you start |
| 23:04.59 | kergoth | but its not worth implementing |
| 23:05.05 | kergoth | kenb: make clean every package touched byt he bk pull |
| 23:05.09 | kergoth | kenb: you could even script it |
| 23:05.10 | kenb | esp. not if OE is going to something new. |
| 23:05.14 | kergoth | right |
| 23:05.19 | kergoth | the new system will be able to handle it |
| 23:05.22 | treke|laptop | ccache will save you some time anyways |
| 23:05.28 | kenb | Just thinking of setting up an autobuilder. |
| 23:05.41 | kergoth | kenb: yeah, thatd be nice for our unstable feed |
| 23:05.43 | kergoth | treke|laptop: true that |
| 23:05.44 | kergoth | i love ccache |
| 23:05.53 | kergoth | okay gotta move inittab to sysvinit |
| 23:05.54 | treke|laptop | theres also no nice way of updating say opie :) |
| 23:05.58 | kenb | ker :I have big horsepower boxes here to run it on |
| 23:06.01 | Harlekin | anything needed to set ccache up? |
| 23:06.11 | kergoth | Harlekin: just install it and prefix your gcc commands with it |
| 23:06.16 | kergoth | Harlekin: oz buildroot autoruns it if you have it |
| 23:06.20 | kergoth | i should make opie's do that too |
| 23:06.28 | Harlekin | hmm |
| 23:06.31 | treke|laptop | ccache is soooo nice |
| 23:06.35 | Harlekin | so no easy way |
| 23:06.47 | kergoth | Harlekin: oz buildroot makes opie use it |
| 23:06.50 | kergoth | hehe |
| 23:06.59 | Harlekin | i was more thinking about kde |
| 23:07.01 | kergoth | export CC="ccache arm-linux-gcc" make |
| 23:07.03 | kergoth | .. |
| 23:07.09 | kergoth | er throw a ; in there |
| 23:07.09 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:07.19 | kergoth | Harlekin: just prefix the cc vars |
| 23:07.35 | mickeyl | alternative: ln -s /usr/local/bin/ccache /usr/local/bin/g++ and set it to be first in path. |
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| 23:08.01 | Harlekin | or edit the debian scrit |
| 23:08.01 | kergoth | mickeyl: ah, if ccache is called without a gcc arg is defaults to g++? |
| 23:08.15 | xai | does anyone know of an embedded linux course? |
| 23:08.16 | mickeyl | kergoth: no, i left out the ln -s gcc :) |
| 23:08.50 | mickeyl | kergoth: it checks argv[0] and calls the appropriate program in /usr/bin |
| 23:08.51 | kergoth | mickeyl: oh, it obeys gcc/g++ as argv[0]? |
| 23:08.55 | mickeyl | yep |
| 23:08.55 | kergoth | :) |
| 23:08.56 | kergoth | cool |
| 23:14.42 | mewyn` | bi should really study for my japanese test |
| 23:20.21 | mickeyl | night all |
| 23:21.32 | TheMasterMind1 | WTF |
| 23:21.42 | TheMasterMind1 | apt-get dist-upgrade is removing all my pakcages!!!!!! |
| 23:21.43 | TheMasterMind1 | ahhh |
| 23:21.57 | treke|laptop | is libc6 being held back :) |
| 23:22.10 | TheMasterMind1 | i already have libc6 from unstable |
| 23:22.32 | TheMasterMind1 | i didn't look too closely as what it was doing it seems, just said yes |
| 23:22.40 | TheMasterMind1 | i didn't think i saw any removes |
| 23:23.26 | treke|laptop | hehe |
| 23:24.06 | TheMasterMind1 | how do i force the installation of a package |
| 23:24.12 | TheMasterMind1 | regardless of dependencies |
| 23:24.30 | kergoth | dpkg --force-all |
| 23:24.37 | kergoth | or theres the depends one.. dpkg --force-help |
| 23:27.11 | kergoth | okay split out inittab and rc and rcS from oz-base into sysvinit |
| 23:27.51 | kergoth | lets see, what next |
| 23:29.05 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:29.09 | kergoth | oz-base is getting so small :) |
| 23:29.35 | kergoth | once i split out the |
| 23:29.43 | kergoth | 'core' init scripts, it'll be almost nonexistant |
| 23:29.52 | kergoth | just a few /etc/ files |
| 23:29.53 | kergoth | heh |
| 23:32.15 | kergoth | yea thats next, split out the init scripts into a 'base' init script package |
| 23:32.25 | kergoth | oz-base-init |
| 23:32.30 | kergoth | which is provided by oz-base-sysvinit .. etc |
| 23:32.33 | kergoth | fun fun |
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