| 00:29.02 | Shdwdrgn | any ideas why after reflashing OZ the package manager won't find any ipkg files on the CF card? |
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| 00:38.02 | chouimat | ni |
| 00:38.58 | chouimat | ulyx weather |
| 00:38.59 | ulyx | 53 minutes ago, on Sun Feb 16 00:00:00 UTC 2003, the wind was blowing at a speed of 5.14 meters per second (11.51 miles per hour) from the West/Northwest at CYQB. The temperature was -24 degrees Celsius (-11 degrees Fahrenheit), and the pressure was 1033 hPa (30.00 inHg). The relative humidity was 38.9%. The sky was clear. |
| 00:39.20 | chouimat | ulyx fortune bofh-excuses |
| 00:39.21 | ulyx | BOFH Excuse #123: user to computer ratio too high. |
| 00:39.33 | chouimat | ulyx fortune bofh-excuses |
| 00:39.34 | ulyx | BOFH Excuse #418: Sysadmins busy fighting SPAM. |
| 00:43.03 | chouimat | équi |
| 00:47.33 | slowhog | Any ideas on why the hardware keyboard does not function after installed opie-irc? |
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| 00:59.01 | Shdwdrgn | ok even with a clean install of OZ, I installed qt-embedded and qpe-base, then installed konq... and I STILL get a buss error when trying to run it. Any suggestions? |
| 01:05.18 | nofpu | Shdwdrgn: which konq are you installing? |
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| 01:39.17 | sheenmaster | Twiun: you there? |
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| 01:47.25 | ljp_ | wake up! |
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| 01:59.41 | NetGeek | quiet |
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| 02:24.02 | NetGeek | damn it, I leeched the opera and hancom ipk, nut its said it need ope-base 1.5.0 |
| 02:24.13 | NetGeek | under OZ 3.1rc2 |
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| 03:01.13 | *** join/#openembedded JasonNJ (~perlow@ool-43512bbd.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 03:01.36 | JasonNJ | yo kergoth! |
| 03:01.44 | JasonNJ | when did the date end, breakfast this morning? lol |
| 03:02.53 | kergoth | naw, when she left for work this morning. but close enough |
| 03:03.10 | JasonNJ | hahahah you dog |
| 03:03.21 | JasonNJ | gonna continue dating her? |
| 03:03.30 | JasonNJ | or did you wake up in disgust? lol |
| 03:04.20 | JasonNJ | sounds like a successful valentines day |
| 03:04.41 | kergoth | neither. not a bad night overall, may sleep with her again, but I know it wont end up serious or long term |
| 03:04.46 | kergoth | yeah, not bad. couldve been worse |
| 03:05.02 | JasonNJ | attaboy! |
| 03:05.24 | treke | hey kergoth |
| 03:05.34 | kergoth | yo treke, whats goin on |
| 03:05.44 | JasonNJ | I miss the experience of dating different women |
| 03:05.56 | JasonNJ | always interesting each time around |
| 03:06.15 | JasonNJ | not that I would give up marriage though |
| 03:06.42 | treke | kergoth: ordered a new ipaq on ebay. hoping it doesnt take too long to arrive :) |
| 03:06.56 | kergoth | ah nice |
| 03:07.03 | JasonNJ | kergoth: looked at the wiki, interesting ideas. |
| 03:07.30 | JasonNJ | I think the major question going forward is, do we give a shit about Zaurus compatability |
| 03:07.43 | JasonNJ | thats really the bottom line |
| 03:08.01 | kergoth | myself, I think it depends on the maintainance effort involved in maintaining a 'compatible' branch |
| 03:08.13 | JasonNJ | it could take too much work |
| 03:08.25 | kergoth | the new buildsystem will make it much easier, but it'll still require work |
| 03:08.26 | JasonNJ | we might not have enough resources to do that successfully and continue to develop new shit |
| 03:08.34 | *** part/#openembedded kenb (~ken@sa.freeswan.ca) |
| 03:08.43 | JasonNJ | especially, if we go ahead with THE PLAN |
| 03:08.57 | JasonNJ | which is more increasingly likely |
| 03:09.39 | JasonNJ | its gonna come down to what can we afford to spend time and money on |
| 03:09.48 | JasonNJ | or what makes sense to spend the time and money on |
| 03:09.55 | kergoth | indeed. |
| 03:10.27 | kergoth | we'll just need to think about it at each point where we can deviate from compatibility. gcc2 vs gcc3 for example is easy to maintain, not worth ditching compatibility over |
| 03:10.36 | kergoth | qt3, may be another story |
| 03:10.48 | ||ugh | Hey guys. Must be time to get work done...Satruday night after all... |
| 03:10.50 | JasonNJ | yeah qt2/qt3 is a big question mark |
| 03:10.56 | JasonNJ | so is qtopia itself |
| 03:11.03 | JasonNJ | we should ditch qtopia like a bad habit |
| 03:11.05 | kergoth | hehe, work? whats that? |
| 03:11.40 | kergoth | JasonNJ: yes, I brought up ditching the qpe library to the opie devs, they all liked the idea, but agreed it should occur post-1.0 |
| 03:11.52 | JasonNJ | did you hear how Sharp is going to get rid of all the 5500 stock? |
| 03:11.55 | JasonNJ | did ben tell you? |
| 03:12.13 | JasonNJ | all 7000 units are going to HSN |
| 03:12.18 | JasonNJ | I shit you not. |
| 03:12.31 | treke | wtf? |
| 03:13.00 | treke | kergoth: the problem I see with qt3 is that no one has licenses to develop commercial apps for it |
| 03:13.01 | JasonNJ | yup. |
| 03:13.19 | kergoth | JasonNJ: ack |
| 03:13.22 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:13.28 | kergoth | brb |
| 03:13.29 | ||ugh | What is HSN and how cheaply can we get some?> |
| 03:13.30 | JasonNJ | treke: Qt X11 |
| 03:13.37 | JasonNJ | Home Shopping Network |
| 03:13.48 | ||ugh | Oh hell. Thats a nighmare. |
| 03:13.49 | treke | JasonNJ: Those are something like a thousand bucks a pop though |
| 03:14.14 | treke | people who buy things on HSN are the last people who should be using a zaurus |
| 03:14.47 | ||ugh | Ok, who does HSN remainder too... :r) |
| 03:16.40 | JasonNJ | the only good thing about qtopia is that developer seats are 100 bucks a shot |
| 03:16.52 | treke | yup |
| 03:17.14 | JasonNJ | however I dont think there is necessarily a problem with developing commercial Qt X11 because I beleive that is GPL. |
| 03:17.23 | JasonNJ | they had to do it that way because of KDE I think. |
| 03:17.58 | treke | personally I could give a shit about people who arent writting Free Software, but people seem to want the apps they write |
| 03:18.35 | JasonNJ | well, personally I am not majorly concerned about having to buy a commercial license for this group if we need it for a commercial venture. |
| 03:18.38 | JasonNJ | thats not the problem. |
| 03:18.49 | JasonNJ | I dont want to discourage commercial development |
| 03:18.54 | treke | its the users/customers |
| 03:19.02 | JasonNJ | saying that we dont give a shit about comercial developers is a bad attitude |
| 03:19.13 | JasonNJ | thats why OPIE is a fucking disaster. |
| 03:19.25 | treke | thats just my personal oppinion. I know they are necessary |
| 03:19.26 | JasonNJ | we have to be equally concerned about both. |
| 03:23.20 | kergoth | treke: how many changes did you make in buildroot that resulted in a build/compile time change for ipaqism? I'm going to start switching certain core bits like oz-base to mostly if not all runtime checks |
| 03:23.25 | kergoth | JasonNJ: agreed. |
| 03:23.40 | JasonNJ | I dont want us to live in a reality distortion field. thats why Sharp is unable to succeed with the zaurus. They have the opposite problem. |
| 03:23.53 | JasonNJ | Sharp is unable to reconcile the open source developers with the commercial ones. |
| 03:24.21 | treke | kergoth: let me look. The only ones I can think of are the opie config, one section in oz-base, pcmcia-cs |
| 03:24.27 | JasonNJ | they dont realize that its the free software guys which has given the Zaurus any forward movement at all. |
| 03:24.49 | treke | obviously the kernel |
| 03:24.55 | JasonNJ | however, they havent exactly succeeded in bringing in commercial developers either |
| 03:25.17 | kergoth | treke: k. obviously qt and opie both have items that need to stay compiletime, but oz-base, pcmcia-cs I want to be the same |
| 03:25.55 | treke | although it would be nice if they evenually became runtime :) |
| 03:26.06 | treke | yeah just oz and pcmcia |
| 03:27.08 | ||ugh | Part of Sharps problem was having developers compete, comerical ones need to do BIG things that the Free & Open Source guys are not going to clone over night. |
| 03:29.54 | JasonNJ | well, being closed kimono for most of the software stack is a big problem in and of itself that brings some complexity into the situation. |
| 03:30.27 | JasonNJ | a lot of the stuff they keep closed is closed for no good reason. |
| 03:31.56 | ||ugh | We need to make it clear that infrasture needs to be common, and that particular solutions might be a palce where a vendor can make money, if they do a good job. |
| 03:32.08 | ||ugh | infrastructure, sheeh. |
| 03:32.15 | kergoth | right. |
| 03:37.39 | kergoth | ulyx: fortune |
| 03:37.40 | ulyx | Anything worth doing is worth overdoing |
| 03:37.50 | ljp_ | opie is a disaster? |
| 03:38.33 | kergoth | ljp's here! hide! |
| 03:38.47 | ljp_ | I've been here all along, lurking |
| 03:38.51 | JasonNJ | lol |
| 03:39.03 | ljp_ | trying to get demudi all setup and nicey |
| 03:39.29 | ljp_ | and getting helix alsa working |
| 03:39.37 | JasonNJ | ljp: I like the opie guys, I like the opie apps, but because its based on Qtopia it is fatally flawed. The entire infrastructure needs a redesign. |
| 03:39.55 | ljp_ | whats wrong with qtopia |
| 03:40.09 | JasonNJ | qtopia is a botch job designed in a hurry over a summer vacation. |
| 03:40.12 | kergoth | qtopia is absolute crap. go read the libqpe code and just try to tell me otherwise :) |
| 03:40.16 | JasonNJ | it was not designed with any rhyme or reason. |
| 03:40.40 | JasonNJ | OPIE is a valiant attempt to take that foundation and make it halfway decent. |
| 03:40.41 | ||ugh | The whole toolkit world in X11 land is horrid. |
| 03:40.48 | ljp_ | you'd rather have something like gpe? |
| 03:40.56 | kergoth | eh? |
| 03:40.57 | JasonNJ | GPE is horrendous too. |
| 03:41.10 | treke | how about something like kde? but small |
| 03:41.13 | JasonNJ | there is nothing wrong with Qt as a toolset, just that qpe is fugly. |
| 03:41.25 | kergoth | ljp_: the problem isnt the concept of a qt/e based environment. the problem is the implementation |
| 03:41.29 | kergoth | ljp_: which turned out to be crap |
| 03:41.47 | ljp_ | well, what do youthik is so bad about it? |
| 03:41.53 | treke | hmmm, what was that other company that was doing a qte environment? |
| 03:41.54 | JasonNJ | treke: a mini kde with a small implementation of the kde libs with a PURE QT application framework would be good, with a sane gui |
| 03:42.07 | kergoth | ljp_: half its classes. just to start with. |
| 03:42.19 | ||ugh | Is there any 'pardigm' in the Qt/OPE toolkit, or is it like the Mac, a steaming pile of function calls? |
| 03:42.20 | ljp_ | Idontthinkit's _too_ bad |
| 03:42.21 | JasonNJ | right now, porting KDE apps to Qtopia is a major bitch. |
| 03:42.52 | kergoth | ||ugh: qt is a very sanely designed api. head over to doc.trolltech.com |
| 03:42.57 | JasonNJ | we need something streamlined and sane. |
| 03:42.57 | ljp_ | well, porting kde to qtopia is like porting kde to qt.. |
| 03:43.12 | kergoth | not really |
| 03:43.21 | kergoth | what we should port is some of the useful kde classes |
| 03:43.24 | ljp_ | sure it is, your loosing stuff |
| 03:43.34 | JasonNJ | yes, a micro-kdelibs |
| 03:43.39 | JasonNJ | the important shit |
| 03:43.39 | kergoth | JasonNJ: yes, one that doesnt suck |
| 03:43.48 | kergoth | JasonNJ: the one used by korg/e is just .. ew |
| 03:43.54 | treke | I cant even really think of much that qpe provides |
| 03:44.15 | kergoth | treke: a process class! but wait, it sucks sufficiently to be useless.. |
| 03:44.21 | kergoth | treke: oh wait, a storage class! err. same story |
| 03:44.24 | treke | other than Config, the Documents system, and QApplication |
| 03:44.25 | kergoth | :) |
| 03:44.36 | treke | kergoth: I dont even think the storage class is available on the zaurus |
| 03:45.00 | kergoth | and the documents system implementation is crap. the idea was sound |
| 03:45.04 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:45.09 | JasonNJ | oh man is the documents thing crap |
| 03:45.20 | JasonNJ | the launcher is just plain BAD |
| 03:45.23 | kergoth | the tab sucks more than the layer itself, but it still sucks in general |
| 03:45.23 | kergoth | yeah |
| 03:45.24 | ljp_ | I canunderstand wht they did that |
| 03:45.28 | treke | launcher is nasty nasty nasty |
| 03:45.28 | JasonNJ | it needs to be lightweigh |
| 03:45.30 | ljp_ | why |
| 03:45.31 | JasonNJ | light weight |
| 03:45.32 | kergoth | the launcher needs to be redone from scratch |
| 03:45.50 | ljp_ | qpe was supposed to be document centric |
| 03:45.57 | kergoth | yes, and the documents implementation is crap. |
| 03:46.01 | treke | ljp_: The idea is good |
| 03:46.08 | ljp_ | 'user doesnt need to know the filesystem' |
| 03:46.10 | JasonNJ | yes the idea is good |
| 03:46.16 | treke | ljp_: As implemented though, its a pain in the butt |
| 03:46.30 | treke | finding the document you want. organizing documents |
| 03:47.16 | kergoth | with regard to finding the document you want, that applies to app links as well |
| 03:47.25 | kergoth | the 'tab' isnt sufficiently useful with regard to that |
| 03:47.33 | kergoth | regardless of what it contains |
| 03:47.36 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:48.13 | treke | although OPIE has done some things I dont get also :) |
| 03:48.34 | treke | like why OTabWidget isnt derived from QTabWidget |
| 03:48.37 | ljp_ | what I thinki happened, is the qpe devs didn't realize people were going to have tons of files |
| 03:49.08 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:49.16 | kergoth | They limited the system |
| 03:49.21 | treke | they didnt realize a lot of things :) |
| 03:49.22 | kergoth | designed it in such a way that it didnt scale |
| 03:49.32 | ljp_ | it works if you dont have alot of files |
| 03:49.34 | kergoth | .. |
| 03:49.36 | treke | they didnt realize people might actually want to reorganize the launcher :) |
| 03:50.03 | treke | they didnt realize that the taskbar utterly breaks down if you have any plugins running |
| 03:50.05 | JasonNJ | the whole .desktop file thing makes so fucking sense either |
| 03:50.16 | JasonNJ | er no fucking sense |
| 03:50.19 | JasonNJ | its stupid |
| 03:50.20 | kergoth | well, .desktop for an applnk makes sense. .desktop for a doclnk .. |
| 03:50.22 | ljp_ | thats based off of kde |
| 03:50.48 | JasonNJ | nah the applink thing I dont like either... I think there needs to be a master configuration file or database for the apps |
| 03:51.24 | ljp_ | I dont. it would get too big |
| 03:51.36 | kergoth | ? |
| 03:51.41 | JasonNJ | how big could it get? |
| 03:51.45 | ljp_ | like windows registry |
| 03:51.47 | kergoth | a db for the data wouldnt take much more space than the numerous .desktop files do now. |
| 03:51.50 | kergoth | period. |
| 03:51.51 | JasonNJ | on a small device? |
| 03:52.00 | kergoth | and searching and parsing hte db is faster than opening numerous flatfiles |
| 03:52.09 | JasonNJ | yeah definitely |
| 03:52.12 | JasonNJ | binary database |
| 03:52.41 | JasonNJ | thats why the palm is so fucking fast |
| 03:52.47 | kergoth | whichi s why we're going with a db to store the info in an intermediary step in our buildsystem as well |
| 03:52.51 | kergoth | it only makes sense |
| 03:53.03 | kergoth | JasonNJ: as long as theres a sane tool to manipulate the db contents for powerusers |
| 03:53.07 | kergoth | JasonNJ: then its all good |
| 03:53.11 | JasonNJ | yes, absolutely |
| 03:53.34 | kergoth | and I'd advocate a commandline tool for registering apps with it |
| 03:53.37 | kergoth | to be called from postinst |
| 03:53.38 | JasonNJ | yep |
| 03:53.42 | kergoth | ala update-alternative,s update-menus |
| 03:53.48 | kergoth | s/,s/,/ |
| 03:56.37 | kergoth | couldnt opie use the debian menus format? /usr/lib/menus/? |
| 03:56.44 | JasonNJ | hmm |
| 03:56.59 | ljp_ | no, cause debian is overrated |
| 03:57.01 | JasonNJ | btw have we been able to figure out the whole package management situation? |
| 03:57.02 | ljp_ | :) |
| 03:57.08 | JasonNJ | is apt still too big? |
| 03:57.08 | kergoth | ?package(opie-advancedfm):needs="opie" section="Apps/heh" |
| 03:57.10 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:57.14 | kergoth | apt is too heavyweight |
| 03:57.20 | kergoth | still not sufficient |
| 03:57.34 | kergoth | we need to rewrite ipkg, or find a way to make apt/dpkg work for embedded systems |
| 03:57.37 | JasonNJ | so we're going to have to roll our own then |
| 03:57.41 | kergoth | JasonNJ: are you on the debian-handheld list yet? |
| 03:57.42 | kergoth | heh |
| 03:57.52 | kergoth | JasonNJ: opie debian packages exist now |
| 03:57.54 | JasonNJ | no, I'm not but I probably should be |
| 03:58.10 | kergoth | I'll bring it up again there |
| 03:58.18 | kergoth | the packaging situation that is |
| 03:58.30 | JasonNJ | I like apt in practice, its the fucking overhead of the database thats a problem |
| 03:58.41 | kergoth | and its wonderful huge fucking .deb cache :) |
| 03:58.46 | kergoth | etc |
| 03:58.47 | treke | that could get to be a problem with oz though |
| 03:58.48 | JasonNJ | yeah the deb cache |
| 03:58.58 | kergoth | treke: ? |
| 03:59.06 | kergoth | the existing ipkg db format is fine |
| 03:59.12 | kergoth | the existing ipkg file format is fine |
| 03:59.14 | treke | kergoth: The huge packages file |
| 03:59.15 | kergoth | its just the tools that blow |
| 03:59.15 | JasonNJ | I am surprised something decent doesnt exist on another OS |
| 03:59.17 | JasonNJ | like QNX |
| 03:59.27 | kergoth | JasonNJ: could talk to cdm |
| 03:59.37 | JasonNJ | yeah but they dont release shit over there |
| 03:59.54 | JasonNJ | CDM is religiously opposed to linux too |
| 04:00.00 | kergoth | yeah, I know |
| 04:00.00 | treke | kergoth: It isnt likely to happen for a long while, but if oe got big enough, the packages file could be large enough to cause problems |
| 04:00.08 | kergoth | I can sympathize with him after the lineo kernel hell |
| 04:00.20 | kergoth | the linux kernel drivers really suck |
| 04:00.27 | JasonNJ | QNX would have gone really far if they open sourced |
| 04:00.38 | kergoth | treke: ah, in which case a binary db file would be the logical step |
| 04:00.39 | JasonNJ | fucking hubris |
| 04:00.41 | kergoth | treke: for parsing speed reasons |
| 04:01.12 | treke | and I imagine the oe feeds could be split up |
| 04:01.22 | kergoth | it'd be possible to transition people from a Packages ver to a new binary db file ver pretty easily |
| 04:01.27 | kergoth | and smoothly |
| 04:01.29 | kergoth | so i woudlnt worry about it |
| 04:01.32 | kergoth | treke: i will be. |
| 04:01.37 | kergoth | treke: splitting themi mean |
| 04:01.43 | kergoth | treke: at least, into bits that are hardware specific, and bits that arent |
| 04:01.56 | kergoth | for some things anyway |
| 04:01.57 | JasonNJ | isnt there any logic we can put on the server to reduce the load on the client? |
| 04:02.02 | kergoth | i wont split to group the packages by content or anything |
| 04:02.13 | treke | its going to be far enough off into the future that it isnt likely to be a problem |
| 04:02.19 | kergoth | JasonNJ: there isnt much to be done, unless you mean dependency calculation |
| 04:02.23 | JasonNJ | yeah |
| 04:02.39 | kergoth | thats not a big deal on the Z or similar devices, it has more than enough power |
| 04:02.46 | kergoth | but yeah, something ot think about |
| 04:02.53 | treke | kergoth: Well I'm thinking that you might need to split by content should oz reach say 11000 packages :) |
| 04:03.02 | kergoth | A pregenrated dependency tree |
| 04:03.03 | JasonNJ | basically, package management is comparing diff files right? |
| 04:03.26 | kergoth | .. i dont know what you mean |
| 04:03.28 | JasonNJ | and then if the diff of the files is out of date from the one you got locally, it downloads the new shit and updates the diff |
| 04:04.00 | kergoth | it downloads the new shit if a package of this name on the server has a Version string greater than the existing one |
| 04:04.13 | treke | and it downloads a complete new package and installs it |
| 04:04.17 | kergoth | assuming the package upstream doesnt have additional Conflicts that would prevent its installation |
| 04:04.42 | JasonNJ | why does apt need such a huge cache? |
| 04:04.54 | JasonNJ | because of the size of the debian database? |
| 04:05.10 | JasonNJ | the number of total packages? |
| 04:05.14 | kergoth | it could be made to not do so |
| 04:05.30 | kergoth | the question is, is it worth it, or is building anew tool the better route |
| 04:05.33 | treke | probably to minimize strain on their server |
| 04:05.37 | kergoth | someone needs to take a look at the situation |
| 04:05.47 | treke | if you uninstall and reinstall a package multiple times, it will just download it once |
| 04:06.11 | kergoth | Any volunteers to play with it, learn its limitations on a Z using debian on the Z from mdz, and determine the effort to fix it? |
| 04:06.19 | JasonNJ | okay, but for the most part, these are small packages on these things |
| 04:06.58 | treke | you dont want to do caching on a pda for sure |
| 04:07.20 | kergoth | yep, you dont cache packages, you download and keep them around only as long as necessary to install them |
| 04:07.31 | kergoth | that much alteration of apt shouldnt be that tough |
| 04:07.35 | kergoth | but what else needs doing? |
| 04:07.56 | kergoth | and how much space in teh filesystem does dpkg + apt-get + apt method stakes? |
| 04:07.59 | kergoth | blah |
| 04:08.06 | kergoth | s/stakes/takes/ |
| 04:08.11 | kergoth | s/takes/take/ |
| 04:08.12 | kergoth | jeeze |
| 04:08.14 | kergoth | i'm tired |
| 04:08.31 | JasonNJ | kergoth: that woman sucked the smart right out of your brain |
| 04:08.42 | JasonNJ | fuck that must of been one hell of a BJ |
| 04:09.12 | kergoth | haha, i need stimulants. caffeine, adrenaline, something |
| 04:09.31 | JasonNJ | she's a succubus! |
| 04:09.47 | kergoth | yea i've been with a few of those |
| 04:09.49 | kergoth | heheh |
| 04:11.24 | JasonNJ | kergoth we cant afford to have you get laid more than once a week |
| 04:11.32 | JasonNJ | could be very bad for your productivity |
| 04:11.33 | JasonNJ | lol |
| 04:12.24 | JasonNJ | how many packages are in the current OZ feed? |
| 04:12.26 | JasonNJ | 200? |
| 04:13.08 | JasonNJ | the unstable feed |
| 04:13.20 | kergoth | ~/buildroot$ ls -l packages/|wc -l |
| 04:13.21 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:13.31 | kergoth | course some of those are x86 builds to build the rest |
| 04:13.34 | kergoth | but not many |
| 04:13.40 | JasonNJ | okay, so lets be wishful and say we need a system that can handle 10 times the amount |
| 04:13.52 | JasonNJ | 2000 packages |
| 04:14.10 | JasonNJ | how big a flat file would be needed to store 2000? |
| 04:14.48 | kergoth | well, it stores the original packagee metadata, file list, prerm/preinst/postrm/postinst |
| 04:14.50 | JasonNJ | also, lets assume stuff like a games feed and non esssential stuff from the base load can be put on separate feeds |
| 04:14.54 | kergoth | so its a bit hard to guage.. |
| 04:14.57 | kergoth | hmm |
| 04:15.13 | kergoth | it only stores the control data for a feed, and for packages not installed |
| 04:15.20 | kergoth | when its installed, more data is retained |
| 04:15.39 | treke | oz is closer to 400 packages that would go into a feed |
| 04:15.51 | kergoth | oh good point, python alone dumps an assload |
| 04:15.59 | treke | and opie |
| 04:16.02 | kergoth | yeah |
| 04:16.09 | kergoth | ncurses 3, ssh 3 |
| 04:16.10 | kergoth | etc |
| 04:16.23 | JasonNJ | ok lets still say 2000 packages though |
| 04:16.53 | JasonNJ | most of which are non essential to the updating and maintaining of the base os |
| 04:17.12 | kergoth | well, the tool only needs to calculate a dependency tree based on the packages its manipulating, which is relatively small in most cases |
| 04:17.15 | JasonNJ | figure there are 400 that are essential |
| 04:17.26 | JasonNJ | or quasi eseential |
| 04:17.50 | kergoth | use of flat file vs db for the package control data itself is a nonissue, converting could be done at any time |
| 04:18.26 | JasonNJ | so what is taking up the memory then, browsing the dependency tree? |
| 04:18.30 | kergoth | once the dependency tree is generated, it only need download and install one package at a time, cleaning up as it goes |
| 04:18.44 | kergoth | not certain, again we need someone to thoroughly analyze apt's faults atm |
| 04:18.55 | kergoth | I've reviewed it, but only at a 50,000 foot level, and briefly at that |
| 04:19.51 | Shdwdrgn | is anyone familiar with "bus error" from konqueror on OZ? I've no idea how to resolve this. |
| 04:19.51 | kergoth | ibot: botmail for mspin: ping me when we're both not away. heh. |
| 04:19.59 | kergoth | Shdwdrgn: you're using an old konq. |
| 04:20.06 | kergoth | Shdwdrgn: use the one in the oz feeds, not from zauruszone. |
| 04:20.20 | kergoth | Shdwdrgn: _always_ always always use the packages in the OZ feeds _first_ if available |
| 04:20.53 | JasonNJ | I should just decommission the fucking thing |
| 04:21.06 | Shdwdrgn | I have the snapshot from 2/11 |
| 04:21.12 | kergoth | Shdwdrgn: yes, thats _ancient_. |
| 04:21.13 | Shdwdrgn | there's a newer one already? |
| 04:21.17 | Shdwdrgn | damn |
| 04:21.19 | kergoth | Shdwdrgn: again, use the one in the OZ feeds. as I said, already. |
| 04:21.23 | kergoth | er |
| 04:21.33 | kergoth | feb 11th? 200_3_? |
| 04:21.36 | kergoth | or 2002? :) |
| 04:21.46 | kergoth | there are an assload of konq packages around |
| 04:22.00 | kergoth | and if you installed konq from unstable while using testing, or something similar, upgrade all of opie. |
| 04:22.08 | Shdwdrgn | oh crap! Nope, it's 3/11/2002... sorry bout that! |
| 04:22.12 | treke | kergoth: the worst part is that they are all the same snapshot :) |
| 04:22.14 | kergoth | yep, figured |
| 04:22.31 | treke | unless someone snuck a new one in at some point |
| 04:22.32 | Shdwdrgn | what's the url for the official feed? |
| 04:22.36 | kergoth | treke: hehe. well, they're built against newer sources.. not that it matters since jack has changed |
| 04:22.41 | kergoth | Shdwdrgn: openzaurus.org |
| 04:22.43 | kergoth | Shdwdrgn: rtfm. |
| 04:22.47 | JasonNJ | the problem is we cant improve konq until we move to Qt3 |
| 04:22.54 | kergoth | Shdwdrgn: click on the big obvious download link, and subsequently click on the feed links |
| 04:22.59 | JasonNJ | because we want to be able to take advantage of the new khtml shit |
| 04:23.03 | kergoth | JasonNJ: yeah |
| 04:23.12 | kergoth | JasonNJ: heard simon talking about that on multiple occasions |
| 04:23.24 | JasonNJ | I think that is reason enough for us to ditch zaurus compatability |
| 04:23.45 | JasonNJ | theres a lot of functionality in Konq that could be reused throughout a PDA system |
| 04:23.54 | treke | kergoth: you have any ideas on how many people are using oz? |
| 04:24.22 | kergoth | treke: we do have download count of image by unique ip, which gives us a rough approximation |
| 04:24.23 | Shdwdrgn | newest thing I see is december... that sound about right? |
| 04:24.29 | JasonNJ | I bet 50 percent of zaurus users at least |
| 04:24.33 | kergoth | Shdwdrgn: use the one in the OZ feeds. |
| 04:24.34 | Shdwdrgn | and that's in the unstable feed |
| 04:24.42 | kergoth | Shdwdrgn: i dont give a shit what version it is |
| 04:24.44 | kergoth | Shdwdrgn: use the one in the feds. |
| 04:24.46 | kergoth | Shdwdrgn: feeds |
| 04:24.51 | kergoth | Shdwdrgn: like i said, 5 times now |
| 04:24.52 | kergoth | heh |
| 04:25.06 | kergoth | hey look, its official, i'm an asshole even when i'm getting laid |
| 04:25.12 | kergoth | pendalar will be surprised |
| 04:25.30 | treke | she must like anal |
| 04:25.45 | kergoth | oi |
| 04:25.48 | JasonNJ | I've never met a chick that liked anal |
| 04:25.52 | kergoth | nor have i |
| 04:25.59 | JasonNJ | its a myth |
| 04:26.00 | treke | well she seems to like kergoth |
| 04:26.13 | kergoth | ~lart treke |
| 04:26.31 | JasonNJ | kergoth: trimmed or forest? |
| 04:26.41 | kergoth | trimmed, thankfully |
| 04:27.03 | JasonNJ | good enough |
| 04:27.14 | kergoth | yeap |
| 04:27.19 | kergoth | shit, i didnt clean today |
| 04:27.28 | kergoth | every fucking week, i plan to clean saturday and end up cleaning sunday |
| 04:27.33 | kergoth | i shoudl just give up and plan to clean sunday |
| 04:27.44 | treke | kergoth: no, because then you would do it on monday |
| 04:27.52 | kergoth | yeah, thats what i was just thinking too |
| 04:27.57 | treke | its a vicious cycle. just be glad it works out in the end |
| 04:27.58 | kergoth | and i sure as hell shouldnt clean on a monday |
| 04:28.03 | kergoth | i'll trip on a vacuum cord and die or something |
| 04:28.08 | JasonNJ | kergoth: is she experienced or awkward? |
| 04:28.45 | kergoth | JasonNJ: semi-awkward. I prefer experienced, but I dont mind teaching |
| 04:28.48 | kergoth | heh |
| 04:29.02 | JasonNJ | semi awkwared and willing to learn is very good |
| 04:29.10 | JasonNJ | it means she hasnt been around too much |
| 04:29.28 | kergoth | point taken |
| 04:29.39 | JasonNJ | my wife was also semi awkward |
| 04:29.52 | JasonNJ | semi awkward is a good foundation |
| 04:30.00 | JasonNJ | sort of like... openzaurus |
| 04:30.05 | kergoth | lol |
| 04:30.17 | JasonNJ | OZ is a chick with a lot of potential |
| 04:30.21 | kergoth | look at that smooth conversational transition from sex to linux |
| 04:30.25 | kergoth | scary |
| 04:30.31 | JasonNJ | she looks good if she cleans herself up and puts on contacts |
| 04:31.04 | kergoth | haha, that so needs to be quoted somewhere |
| 04:31.54 | JasonNJ | I can just see how this date went |
| 04:32.05 | JasonNJ | "hey baby, come back to my place and check out my Zaurus" |
| 04:32.12 | JasonNJ | "shut up and rip my clothes off" |
| 04:32.52 | kergoth | 22:33 -!- kergoth changed the topic of #openzaurus to: OpenZaurus project - now |
| 04:32.56 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:32.56 | kergoth | :P |
| 04:32.58 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:33.01 | kergoth | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:33.18 | kergoth | brb |
| 04:34.09 | JasonNJ | OZ is like the janean garafolo of PDA os'es |
| 04:34.22 | JasonNJ | she's smart, cute, but needs some work |
| 04:35.09 | JasonNJ | nerdy but cute |
| 04:35.43 | JasonNJ | still awkward but can really ride you when you need it |
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| 04:45.20 | treke | the one nice thing about being here late is that I dont have to wear headphones :) |
| 04:56.40 | ljp_ | ?? |
| 04:58.16 | treke | ljp_: since I'm not the boss i cant dictate what music everyone listens to |
| 04:58.33 | treke | when I'm the only person in the building on a saturday, I can |
| 04:58.47 | kergoth | where you work? |
| 04:59.02 | treke | kergoth: A photography school in southern california |
| 04:59.04 | treke | brooks.edu |
| 05:01.28 | ljp_ | ahh school of pron? |
| 05:01.37 | treke | hehe |
| 05:02.44 | ljp_ | my cat likes sleeping on top of my apple monitor |
| 05:14.38 | kergoth | god im bored, im gonna watch a dvd |
| 05:18.20 | ljp_ | grab vi and start pounding out a new opie |
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| 06:17.44 | NetGeek | anyone using opera under OZ 3.1rc2? |
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| 06:23.41 | sheenmaster | does OZ have a key sequence for the backslash? |
| 06:23.54 | sheenmaster | I just used tab to autocomplete it rather than type it, but FlameCalc is getting an operator for "flip" and '\' is a candidate |
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| 07:43.38 | TimRiker | http://www.internetnews.com/wireless/print.php/1583901 |
| 07:48.34 | Shdwdrgn | hey I've got a question for anyone who's programmed on a PDA... Does the infra-red LED respond to ambient light levels in the room? I'm wondering if there's any way to use it to determine, for instance, if you are standing outside in bright sunlight and have no need for the backlight to be on full-blast (and running down your batteries)... |
| 07:49.22 | TimRiker | Shdwdrgn: normally that level of interface is not available in software. |
| 07:50.14 | TimRiker | the hardware could likely be modified to do it, but I suspect that the level of infrared does not relate to the level of visible light at least indoors. |
| 07:50.26 | Shdwdrgn | hmm that's too bad |
| 07:50.48 | Shdwdrgn | well indoors you would probably use the backlight anyway |
| 07:51.08 | TimRiker | ie: bright lit room vs dim room. |
| 07:51.17 | TimRiker | in a dim room you can dim the backlight. |
| 07:51.22 | Shdwdrgn | right |
| 07:51.35 | Shdwdrgn | but an auto-detected light level would sure be handy :-) |
| 07:51.44 | TimRiker | but both would show up as dim to the infrared sensor. |
| 07:52.32 | TimRiker | some of the iPAQs have light sensors. I don't recall which. |
| 07:52.45 | treke | 3800+ iirc |
| 07:52.52 | Shdwdrgn | I already have a Z... too late now |
| 07:52.54 | treke | its nice on the battey :) |
| 07:52.57 | TimRiker | I'm pretty sure the 36xx has one. |
| 07:53.15 | treke | hmm. lemme check the source |
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| 07:54.08 | Shdwdrgn | well if it IS something that could be done with existing hardware, it would certainly add a bit more to battery life |
| 07:54.12 | TimRiker | http://www.pocketpcpassion.com/iPAQ/3100/3100.htm <- says there is even a sensor on the 31xx |
| 07:54.53 | TimRiker | Shdwdrgn: on most Z hardware releases, the word is that dim backlight consumes more power than full brightness. |
| 07:55.12 | TimRiker | hmm... I know that was tru of the 5000, not sure if/when it got fixed. |
| 07:55.28 | SHEENmaster | you could build one, if you care that much |
| 07:55.31 | treke | TimRiker: hmmm looks like your right. Doesnt seem to be a check in ODevice |
| 07:56.21 | SHEENmaster | it wouldn't be complicated, just an rs232 line going to an a/d converter measuring the resistance of a cds cell |
| 07:56.32 | treke | TimRiker: dont get used to it |
| 07:56.52 | TimRiker | ~fishslap treke for spoiling the moment |
| 07:56.53 | | ACTION slaps treke up side the head with a wet fish for spoiling the moment |
| 07:57.09 | SHEENmaster | TimRiker: does that affect the 5500? |
| 07:57.16 | Shdwdrgn | ok another question... I installed Konq on OZ tonight... but god it takes forever even to pull up google. However I tried following the directions to create an Opera ipkg from the flash updates, and have a package which installs and runs (I have to create my own desktop link though) however there are no buttons on the program... Do I have any other choices? |
| 07:57.50 | Shdwdrgn | SHEENmaster: yeah I figured adding an extra sensor wouldn;t be hard from hardware... it's just a matter of figuring out the software that would be difficult for me |
| 07:57.53 | TimRiker | SHEENmaster: not sure. it was documented just a bit before the first 5500's shipped. I never heard if Sharp fixed it or not. |
| 07:58.18 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: I could write the software in Java; I'd do it in C++ if I could get a damn crosscompiler on my iBook2 |
| 07:58.41 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: what kind of setup do you have? |
| 07:58.55 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: broadband? router or proxy? wifi or usb? |
| 07:59.04 | Shdwdrgn | openZaurus flashed onto a 5500... so far no SD card though |
| 07:59.08 | Shdwdrgn | wifi |
| 07:59.23 | SHEENmaster | do you have a router or a proxy? |
| 07:59.26 | Shdwdrgn | browsing speed was fine under opera on the original rom image |
| 07:59.30 | Shdwdrgn | router |
| 07:59.31 | SHEENmaster | (or a really understanding cable company :) |
| 07:59.38 | Shdwdrgn | dsl |
| 07:59.56 | Shdwdrgn | a very very cool dsl provider... they let me run anything I want |
| 08:00.00 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: portmap your router and use its proxy server if it has one |
| 08:00.15 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: I've found dsl to be a bitch. |
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| 08:00.31 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: bell south blocked port 80 and gave me a dynamic ip under PPPoE |
| 08:00.40 | SHEENmaster | ~lart bell south. |
| 08:01.00 | Shdwdrgn | my 'router' is my linux firewall... and yes I have squid running on one of the servers as well... but why would konq need to go through a proxy when opera did just fine without it? |
| 08:01.49 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: I also use my Linux box as a router, though I don't do firewalling. My Z is a lot faster under squid than through routing. |
| 08:02.13 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: it has to do with socket connections over wifi, particularly at longer ranges. |
| 08:02.21 | Shdwdrgn | hmm interesting... I'll give it a shot sending it through squid and see what happens. |
| 08:02.35 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: for a proxy, you Z makes one connection and your server makes one connection |
| 08:03.35 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: for a router, UDP is used |
| 08:03.59 | Shdwdrgn | so it IS possible to get some real-time speed out of konq? It's literally taking 45-60 seconds just to bring up google.com |
| 08:04.01 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: and I think UDP on wifi creates a tcp-like socket to transfer from base to card |
| 08:04.14 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: yeah, it's the dns part |
| 08:04.18 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: do you run a dns server? |
| 08:04.25 | Shdwdrgn | yes |
| 08:04.28 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: configuring your Z to use it would help things |
| 08:04.36 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: rather than routing through to your isp |
| 08:04.50 | Shdwdrgn | my isp doesn;t do anything except provide a connection |
| 08:04.59 | Shdwdrgn | I handle everything from here |
| 08:05.36 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: so you jack into the backend servers for DNS? |
| 08:05.47 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: my cable company at least provides that much. |
| 08:06.12 | Shdwdrgn | I just run my own dns here... I'm not sure what you mean about the backend |
| 08:06.13 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: it's a given, even more so than mail(no thanks, I'll handle my own) |
| 08:06.28 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: your dns needs to lookup from another |
| 08:07.12 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: anyways, the UDP datagrams of dns are probably a part of what slows you down |
| 08:07.31 | Shdwdrgn | if you say so... I have a root.hints file, and other than that I never provided any further info about where to look for info. |
| 08:07.32 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: they are also harder to route, try loading those "advanced connection tracking" modules |
| 08:07.56 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: dhcp probably set the nameserver lookup file |
| 08:08.11 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: or is your ISP nice enough to give you a truly static ip? |
| 08:08.30 | Shdwdrgn | I actually have a block of 8 static ip's... 6 usable |
| 08:08.51 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: care to show appreciation for my advice with one or two? |
| 08:08.55 | SHEENmaster | :-) |
| 08:08.57 | Shdwdrgn | 216.87.84.208-215 |
| 08:09.13 | SHEENmaster | how much do you pay for that? |
| 08:09.14 | Shdwdrgn | haha |
| 08:09.36 | Shdwdrgn | well, the base price from qwest of $32/month for the hardline |
| 08:09.42 | Shdwdrgn | isp costs... |
| 08:09.49 | Shdwdrgn | well, you don;t want to know |
| 08:09.57 | SHEENmaster | lol |
| 08:10.18 | Shdwdrgn | they give me the dsl plus the ip vlock for $20/month |
| 08:10.59 | SHEENmaster | those jackasses I worked for over the summer got free IP addresses |
| 08:11.02 | SHEENmaster | as many as they needed |
| 08:12.22 | SHEENmaster | two or three went to those "PTDTDB Servers" I left behind :-) |
| 08:13.00 | Shdwdrgn | ok it's not a dns issue... when I plug in the wifi my dhcp server is setting up the correct dns entries in resolv.conf |
| 08:13.23 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: eek! dchp on your lan! |
| 08:13.34 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: for shame! |
| 08:13.44 | Shdwdrgn | actually 2 seperate dhcp servers... one for the netowkr, and one for the wifi |
| 08:14.16 | Shdwdrgn | I provide wifi access for my neighbor, but put it into a different subnet to keep him off my computers |
| 08:14.19 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: lol, I just plugged a wap into my lan. Local inbred yokels aren't likely to be wardriving |
| 08:15.09 | Shdwdrgn | I'm more worried about my neighbor getting an outlook virus and having it spread to my samba servers |
| 08:15.10 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: CVS and FoodCity(major gocery chain down here) give me wifi access, just like my school. |
| 08:15.22 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: so M$ writes outlook viruses now? |
| 08:15.27 | Shdwdrgn | hehe... do they KNOW they give it to you? |
| 08:15.41 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: sorry, let me rephrase that |
| 08:15.56 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: hypotheticall CVS and FoodCity(major gocery chain down here) give me wifi access, just like my school. |
| 08:16.12 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: oh, so do Dollar Tree, AutoZone, etc |
| 08:17.26 | Shdwdrgn | hmm... I'm ssh'ed into my Z, I can ping yahoo with reasonable times... 53ms, not bad at all... so why does konq take so damn long to pull up a page? |
| 08:17.44 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: are you on konq or konq-full? |
| 08:17.56 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: I suspect that the former is deprecated. |
| 08:18.00 | Shdwdrgn | konq-full |
| 08:18.10 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: how much space do you have free? |
| 08:18.38 | Shdwdrgn | grrr... konq apparently doesn;t even load images... make it kinda hard to catch up on user-friendly |
| 08:18.48 | Shdwdrgn | not a lot... ram is down to 15M |
| 08:18.52 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: install konq-gif plugin or zoom out |
| 08:19.06 | Shdwdrgn | and it's gonna be a couple weekns before I can afford to get an SD card |
| 08:19.09 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: hehe, I am in the 6mb/ram image |
| 08:19.12 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: with 6 free |
| 08:19.51 | Shdwdrgn | ok looks like google takes about 20 secs to load |
| 08:21.22 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: 2 seconds for me |
| 08:21.28 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: is your neighbor running kazaa? |
| 08:21.49 | Shdwdrgn | I don't know... doubtful though |
| 08:22.06 | Shdwdrgn | he leeches mp3's from me, don;t think he can figure out how to get others |
| 08:22.28 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: wtfh!? The Bastard Neighbor From Hell always knows what his lusers are up to... |
| 08:23.06 | Shdwdrgn | haha |
| 08:23.29 | Shdwdrgn | well if he were trying to file-share, he'd be getting errors because I only allow a few ports to go through |
| 08:24.58 | SHEENmaster | "Honestly officer, how was I supposed to know that my 16kv powerline would go through the CAT5 cable just as he was licking the other cable to 'make sure it was working'!?" |
| 08:25.06 | SHEENmaster | :) |
| 08:25.10 | Shdwdrgn | I had to force dependancies for the gif plugin... but it still doesn't show the image for google... just a black box |
| 08:25.23 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: what are you zoomed to? |
| 08:25.30 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: did you restart konq? |
| 08:25.44 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: how many neighbors have you gone through in the past year? |
| 08:26.42 | Shdwdrgn | 30% |
| 08:26.46 | Shdwdrgn | also tried 20% |
| 08:27.08 | Shdwdrgn | I scare away neighbors... we had 2 move out this fall |
| 08:27.19 | SHEENmaster|dead | Shdwdrgn: that's way to small for gifs |
| 08:27.25 | Shdwdrgn | I build trebuchets... they're starting to get worried about my new one |
| 08:27.35 | SHEENmaster|dead | Shdwdrgn: don't know why, the GIF algorithm is meant for resizable images. |
| 08:27.47 | SHEENmaster|dead | Shdwdrgn: hehe, ttyl; I'm dead |
| 08:28.12 | Shdwdrgn | ok |
| 08:31.00 | Shdwdrgn | yep 50% looks like it works for the images... now if only I could figure out what the holdup was... speed still sucks |
| 08:37.59 | treke | Shdwdrgn: Dont feel too bad. I had two move out this week :) |
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| 10:13.11 | Harlekin | kergoth`bbl: ping |
| 10:13.15 | Harlekin | hi * |
| 10:32.07 | Twiun | mornin' |
| 10:32.36 | Twiun | Harlekin: just tried using wonka for compiling.... |
| 10:32.41 | Twiun | Harlekin: it works! |
| 10:32.52 | Harlekin | cool |
| 10:33.00 | Harlekin | jre or sdk? .-) |
| 10:33.26 | Twiun | sdk, so... jikes -classpath <path to wre.jar>:. someClass.java |
| 10:33.40 | Harlekin | cool |
| 10:33.43 | Harlekin | overall size? |
| 10:34.08 | Twiun | wonka ipk is 1mb, jikes is 800k gzipped |
| 10:34.24 | Harlekin | what is supported? |
| 10:34.27 | Harlekin | java base |
| 10:34.30 | Harlekin | awt? |
| 10:34.50 | Twiun | extracted, wonka is... 2.9mb, jikes is 2.2mb |
| 10:35.06 | Twiun | java base, awt will most likely compile (but not run, obviously) |
| 10:35.14 | Harlekin | yeah |
| 10:35.17 | Harlekin | cool |
| 10:35.24 | Harlekin | mobil development platform .-) |
| 10:35.44 | Twiun | we should be able to use Kopi as a compiler (to save space) but that has higher ram requirements |
| 10:36.06 | Twiun | lol, we could almost run .jsp and servlet services |
| 10:36.10 | Harlekin | 5 mb total is ok for me |
| 10:36.14 | Harlekin | i have a 3870 |
| 10:36.14 | Harlekin | ,.) |
| 10:36.20 | Twiun | hehe |
| 10:36.40 | Twiun | 5mb total for a java sdk isn't too bad |
| 10:36.53 | Harlekin | yes |
| 10:36.53 | Twiun | ok, it's not java2 yet, but we'll get there |
| 10:37.29 | Harlekin | hm, maybe tinykate should get plugins |
| 10:37.49 | Harlekin | so if jikes is installed if has a compile menu for java files |
| 10:38.08 | Twiun | could be an idea |
| 10:38.33 | Harlekin | is has syntax hilighting .) |
| 10:41.01 | Harlekin | there a several syntax files |
| 10:41.07 | Harlekin | in different packages |
| 10:45.39 | Twiun | so... which one will I find java in? |
| 10:45.47 | Harlekin | development |
| 10:45.58 | Twiun | considering my buildroot went to the hard work of producing all these nice packages :) |
| 10:54.27 | Twiun | hmmm, tinykate doesn't seem to like being installed to a fat16 cf |
| 10:55.27 | Harlekin | why? |
| 10:56.09 | Twiun | looks for libtinykate.so.1 on the cf, doesn't find the symlink in /opt/QtPalmtop/lib to libtinykate.so.1.0.0 |
| 10:57.25 | Twiun | got it working by copying libtinykate.so.1.0.0 to libtinykate.so.1 on the cf |
| 10:57.36 | Harlekin | but hten this is a general issue |
| 10:57.42 | Harlekin | with libs |
| 10:58.05 | Twiun | right, but most apps have no problems using symlinks provided in /opt/Qt... |
| 10:58.16 | Twiun | Wonka certainly doesn't |
| 10:59.59 | Twiun | arg. tinykate has javascript but not java syntax... going to check in the buildroot to make sure that's the case |
| 11:00.42 | treke | Twiun: you could try taking the syntax files from nottinykate |
| 11:02.12 | Twiun | found the file in the buildroot... wonder why it didn't get packaged up? |
| 11:02.25 | Twiun | it's a subtle plot! |
| 11:02.29 | Twiun | that's what it is :) |
| 11:02.49 | Harlekin | it has java |
| 11:03.54 | Twiun | the builrdoot just doesn't package it up as part of a standard build in any of the syntax packages :) |
| 11:05.12 | Twiun | but that's ok, I was only joking about the plot |
| 11:06.37 | Twiun | yikes! tinykate is 14m in ram? |
| 11:06.55 | Harlekin | hmm |
| 11:07.00 | Harlekin | needs to be slimed |
| 11:07.09 | Harlekin | do you have ALL syntax files now installed? |
| 11:07.15 | Twiun | I do |
| 11:07.20 | Harlekin | all 20? |
| 11:07.21 | Harlekin | hehe |
| 11:07.26 | Harlekin | reduce the count a bit |
| 11:07.27 | Harlekin | .-) |
| 11:07.28 | Twiun | are all of them cached in ram? |
| 11:07.32 | Harlekin | i think so |
| 11:07.33 | Harlekin | yes |
| 11:07.35 | Twiun | lol |
| 11:07.40 | Twiun | no wonder |
| 11:07.40 | Harlekin | since all of the are loaded on startup |
| 11:07.44 | Harlekin | tinykate needs work |
| 11:07.52 | Harlekin | but nobody maintains it right now |
| 11:07.59 | Twiun | yeah, it's like a lot in oe/oz, it's a work in progress |
| 11:08.23 | Twiun | talking of maintainers... have we found one for kaffe? |
| 11:08.41 | Twiun | beattie was having problems with libtool+kaffe last I remember |
| 11:14.45 | Twiun | mickeyl|feiern: ping when you get back :) |
| 11:16.52 | Harlekin | but i fear most of it i will have to delay after vordiplom |
| 11:17.04 | Harlekin | ups |
| 11:17.52 | Twiun | studying? |
| 11:18.14 | Harlekin | yeah |
| 11:18.24 | Harlekin | next 6 errkd |
| 11:18.26 | Harlekin | weeks |
| 11:19.02 | Twiun | what subject? |
| 11:19.22 | Harlekin | informatik and math |
| 11:19.53 | Twiun | heavyweight stuff :) |
| 11:21.07 | Harlekin | hm |
| 11:21.09 | Harlekin | yeah |
| 11:50.37 | mickeyl | Twiun: pong |
| 11:51.21 | mickeyl | btw., just tried building kaffe 1.0.7 in current buildroot - builds fine here. |
| 11:52.37 | Twiun | that's good, it's python I wanted to chat about :) |
| 11:52.49 | mickeyl | very good :) |
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| 11:53.05 | Twiun | menu.in ring any bells? |
| 11:53.37 | mickeyl | yes. added this recently to get a better config.in structure. anything wrong with it? |
| 11:54.11 | Twiun | you're pointing to it from packages/config.in - and the make system gets awfully confused |
| 11:54.40 | Twiun | ie it barfs |
| 11:54.54 | mickeyl | hmm... awfully confused? well, it builds fine here. |
| 11:55.04 | mickeyl | can you post an error message? |
| 11:55.18 | Harlekin | jpluck is nice |
| 11:55.35 | Twiun | mickeyl: did you commit your python/config.in? |
| 11:55.46 | mickeyl | let me check.. |
| 11:57.18 | mickeyl | Twiun: yeah. everything seems to be right. i fiddled with the manual depends lately. you might want to delete your .depends file and let them regenerate. |
| 11:57.34 | Twiun | ok |
| 11:59.17 | Twiun | lol |
| 11:59.19 | Twiun | QWSDisplayData::readMore() : Protocol error - got 00000000! |
| 11:59.46 | mickeyl | Protocol Error... nice. |
| 11:59.56 | Twiun | and all I was doing was moving a window around :) |
| 11:59.59 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 12:00.13 | Twiun | could be a synchronization issue |
| 12:00.21 | Twiun | I'll look into it some other time |
| 12:16.10 | mickeyl | Didn't follow your progress - what's the status and final goal for Wonka? |
| 12:18.12 | Twiun | progress, well atm I'm working on qt<->awt event propagation. I've successfully used wonka+jikes to compile classes (a 5mb sdk isn't too bad!) and sheenmaster ran his console-based calculator with wonka |
| 12:18.37 | Twiun | wonka doesn't return to the foreground after a suspend though - need to learn how to do that |
| 12:19.02 | Twiun | final goal is full Jeode functionality (and maybe more!) |
| 12:21.24 | mickeyl | so will it be an addon to kaffee or a replacement? |
| 12:24.10 | Twiun | kaffe and wonka are parallel efforts :) |
| 12:24.23 | Twiun | both aim to replace Jeode |
| 12:25.09 | Twiun | think of it as two different implementations of a java virtual machine |
| 12:26.05 | mickeyl | i see. nice. would attract much more java developers to openzaurus/-embedded |
| 12:26.25 | Twiun | exactly - especially with more choice |
| 12:26.27 | treke | that would be a good thing? |
| 12:27.46 | Twiun | I think so, yes. Kaffe and Wonka seem to have different targets - Wonka is also commercially developped (so updates are very frequent) |
| 12:27.50 | Twiun | brb |
| 12:28.08 | treke | I meant the part about attracting java developers :) |
| 12:28.40 | mickeyl | treke: what? attracting java developers? well, dunno. I'm a language agnostic. I try to use the proper language for the job to do (although the answer "python" seems to come up more often than not :-D). While our project definitly needs more C++ developers, i guess attracting more developers in general isn't a bad thing... maybe they'll convert :-D |
| 12:28.59 | treke | grrrr |
| 12:29.13 | treke | its too early to try being funny |
| 12:45.40 | *** join/#openembedded effy (effy@Q108059.ppp.dion.ne.jp) |
| 12:48.20 | mickeyl | anyone part of the tuxbox project ? |
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| 16:56.43 | chouimat | hi |
| 16:56.48 | SHEENmaster|dead | hi |
| 16:56.50 | SHEENmaster|dead | hi |
| 16:57.34 | SHEENmaster | the new ones have 128mb of ram and 32mb of rom! |
| 16:57.45 | SHEENmaster | AND its standard os uses X!\ |
| 16:57.58 | SHEENmaster | (the one and only thing I miss about my VR3) |
| 16:58.16 | chouimat | SHEENmaster:buy one then |
| 16:58.37 | SHEENmaster | if anyone could point me to a damn howto on building a cross compiler, the zaurus could have X apps ported. |
| 16:59.11 | chouimat | SHEENmaster:bytesex.org |
| 17:01.38 | SHEENmaster | chouimat: bless you |
| 17:01.51 | SHEENmaster | chouimat: should I use 2.9 or 3.2 for compiling to the Z? |
| 17:02.07 | chouimat | SHEENmaster: 2.95.3 for c++ |
| 17:02.23 | SHEENmaster | chouimat: it needs to be that specific? |
| 17:02.32 | treke | SHEENmaster: yes |
| 17:02.56 | chouimat | hi treke |
| 17:03.10 | SHEENmaster | treke: glibc version or some shit? |
| 17:03.23 | chouimat | 2.2.4 |
| 17:03.23 | treke | c++ abi |
| 17:06.53 | ljp | x is overkill on pdas |
| 17:07.06 | SHEENmaster | ljp: I am sick of people saying that! |
| 17:07.08 | chouimat | hi ljp |
| 17:07.17 | ljp | well, its true |
| 17:07.29 | SHEENmaster | ljp: my 8mb/ram vr3d handled it |
| 17:07.35 | treke | most x guis suck on pdas |
| 17:07.35 | SHEENmaster | ljp: it and a ramdisk |
| 17:08.00 | treke | ljp: x and qte certainly are overkill |
| 17:08.06 | treke | aer qt/x11 |
| 17:08.30 | SHEENmaster | treke: flwm worked fine, I would appreciate a taskbar or something on the Z |
| 17:08.43 | ljp | qte doesnt use x |
| 17:09.03 | SHEENmaster | ljp: so? wtf is so great about qt? |
| 17:09.10 | treke | qte also has crappy font handling, and poor support for rotation |
| 17:09.29 | ljp | xlib dev is a nightmare |
| 17:09.37 | SHEENmaster | treke: hehe I remember getting rotation to work, once |
| 17:09.40 | treke | so dont use xlib |
| 17:09.46 | ljp | i dont |
| 17:09.56 | treke | SHEENmaster: use a decent X setup :) |
| 17:10.26 | SHEENmaster | treke: I bet the yopy could handle KDE.... |
| 17:10.38 | treke | no it couldnt |
| 17:10.42 | mewyn | no, it couldn't |
| 17:10.44 | treke | not nearly enough room |
| 17:10.56 | mewyn | if it's using a strong arm or xscale, it has no fpu |
| 17:10.57 | SHEENmaster | 128mb/ram with a 512mb/SD |
| 17:11.05 | ljp | kde on pda is way overkill |
| 17:11.20 | treke | kde falls into that crappy ui category |
| 17:11.21 | mewyn | kde on a pda would be too hard to use |
| 17:11.21 | SHEENmaster | ljp: true, I'm just making the point that it could work. |
| 17:11.36 | ljp | kde on small screens sux raw eggs |
| 17:11.43 | SHEENmaster | treke: gnome2 broke in Sid a while back, but I haven't switched back from WindowMaker |
| 17:11.52 | treke | SHEENmaster: your point being? |
| 17:12.03 | mewyn | saying it works would imply that it's /usable/ |
| 17:12.23 | SHEENmaster | ljp: kde on anything below 1024x768 sux raw eggs; I wouldn't mind resolution like that on a pda though.... |
| 17:12.39 | ljp | then get a paltop |
| 17:12.43 | ljp | laptop |
| 17:12.45 | treke | SHEENmaster: you miss the part where it needs to be small |
| 17:12.49 | mewyn | sheen: at that point, its really not a pda |
| 17:13.30 | SHEENmaster | mewyn: it shouldn't "just" be a pda; that's why the vr3 died. Well, that, and I think their entire staff ran off or something. |
| 17:13.38 | chouimat | kde on any non-xinerama setup sucks :) |
| 17:13.48 | mewyn | sheen: you really keep things in perspective. |
| 17:14.03 | mewyn | no, the vr3 died because it was obscure |
| 17:14.21 | mewyn | an "just" a pda means you can play games and use small apps on it |
| 17:14.22 | treke | and a fairly poor pda |
| 17:14.44 | chouimat | not enough advertising |
| 17:14.54 | mewyn | when you start throwing all sorts of shit on it, it's gonna get bogged down, and you start losing the point of having it as a pda |
| 17:14.55 | treke | the vr3 pim apps make qtopia look good |
| 17:14.56 | SHEENmaster | chouimat: ever seen a commercial for the Z? |
| 17:15.04 | SHEENmaster | chouimat: all their ads were "reviews" and /. articles |
| 17:15.29 | treke | SHEENmaster: no, but I've seen the zaurus on store shelves |
| 17:15.31 | chouimat | SHEENmaster:not all peoples read slashdot |
| 17:16.05 | SHEENmaster | treke: I haven't, but I live in TN so I'm used to never seeing anything good on store shelves. |
| 17:16.06 | mewyn | sheen: i've never seen a vr3 on store shelves or in major online outlets. and Sharp does advertize the Zaurus, i've seen ads. |
| 17:18.23 | Shdwdrgn | is there any difference between SD and MMC cards? They look like the same format, and I'm finding them sold on the same pages on websites.. |
| 17:18.38 | treke | Shdwdrgn: they are completly different |
| 17:18.50 | treke | other than the fact that they happen to fit in the same slot |
| 17:19.05 | Shdwdrgn | different internal circuitry then? |
| 17:19.57 | chouimat | different card initialisation etc ... |
| 17:20.53 | Shdwdrgn | hmm... wonder what genuis decided to sell them in the same package then? It's ceratinly confusing if you don't know there's a difference |
| 17:21.11 | mewyn | because most controllers can work with both |
| 17:21.25 | Shdwdrgn | what about the zaurus? |
| 17:21.39 | treke | Shdwdrgn: most anything that reads sd can read mmc |
| 17:23.04 | Shdwdrgn | so then really I could buy either and would be just fine? Is there any reason to use one type over the other? |
| 17:23.08 | ljp | its similiar to the difference between ide and ata, they both fit in the same place |
| 17:26.55 | chouimat | bye |
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| 17:48.49 | effy | does anyone know why you would want to "bit flip" data before sending it out of a port? |
| 17:51.25 | ljp | big endian vs. little endian |
| 17:56.57 | effy | hmmmm, doesnt seem to be that |
| 17:57.06 | MS_away | a hardware port? |
| 17:57.08 | MS_away | gack |
| 17:57.11 | effy | maybe it's the difference between a 0 being low or high? |
| 17:57.24 | MSpin | yeah, it's active low vs active high signals |
| 17:58.13 | Shdwdrgn | hmm... someone mentioned yestarday they had just bought a 256M SD card for $99 online... I just found one for $75. |
| 17:58.36 | effy | hmmm, probably so |
| 17:58.46 | effy | shdwdrgn: what brand? |
| 17:58.51 | larry | Shdwdrgn: where? |
| 17:59.19 | Shdwdrgn | generic brand... http://shop.store.yahoo.com/digi4me/memsecdigcar.html |
| 18:01.32 | Shdwdrgn | so does OZ support the full 256M sticks? |
| 18:07.41 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: SD? |
| 18:07.44 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: I have one. |
| 18:08.06 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: works great |
| 18:09.16 | Shdwdrgn | cool |
| 18:09.37 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: oh, one more thing |
| 18:09.45 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: I formatted the whole card, instead of partitioning it |
| 18:09.48 | Shdwdrgn | I may as well order a 256M stick... no use screwing around about it <grin> |
| 18:10.02 | Shdwdrgn | partitioning? |
| 18:10.10 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: that probably got the "cryptographic music copy protection crap" out've there |
| 18:10.14 | Shdwdrgn | why would there even be an option to partition a memory stick? |
| 18:10.22 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: "option", lol |
| 18:10.30 | Shdwdrgn | hmm |
| 18:10.36 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: I just ran mfs.ext3 on the card and edited /etc/fstab |
| 18:10.48 | Shdwdrgn | ok cool |
| 18:11.17 | Shdwdrgn | now I want to know why my CF card says USB-enabled? I don;t see any USB sockets on it! <grin> |
| 18:12.24 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: hehe, reminds me of my favorite joke: "It said it needed Mac OS 9, Winshit xp, or better so I installed Debian GNU/Linux" |
| 18:12.43 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: my usb cf reader works perfectly in Linux btw |
| 18:12.48 | treke | you know it was funny until you mutilated it |
| 18:13.58 | SHEENmaster | treke: I reserver the right to mutilate any joke I please. |
| 18:15.04 | SHEENmaster | is there a script to make a Packages file for a directory of ipks? |
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| 18:17.01 | treke | yes |
| 18:17.05 | treke | with the other scripts |
| 18:17.39 | SHEENmaster | treke: and they would be where? |
| 18:17.52 | treke | the obvious place |
| 18:18.03 | SHEENmaster | treke: which obvious place? |
| 18:18.08 | *** join/#openembedded lsmith (~vandal@pD9E77933.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:18.13 | Shdwdrgn | hey one question... last night after a lockup, I had to reset my Z, and everything loaded to ram was wiped. I would assume that anything saved to SD will be preserved through a reset and all? |
| 18:18.37 | Shdwdrgn | because I'd REALLY hate to have to re-write 256M of software every time I reset |
| 18:18.44 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: resets, no. reboots, yes. |
| 18:18.54 | SHEENmaster | sorry |
| 18:18.58 | SHEENmaster | sd cards will be fine |
| 18:19.03 | SHEENmaster | ram will not through a reset |
| 18:19.22 | SHEENmaster | and software installed to SD will need to be reinstalled unless you move /opt to the card |
| 18:19.25 | Shdwdrgn | ok... SD is flash, right? So I didn;t see any reason why it would get reset |
| 18:19.49 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: right |
| 18:19.53 | Shdwdrgn | hmm.. /opt on the card seems like it would be best anyway |
| 18:20.16 | Shdwdrgn | is it difficult to make that change, or is it simply creating a softlink? |
| 18:20.25 | SHEENmaster | 1. mv it |
| 18:20.29 | SHEENmaster | 2. symlink it |
| 18:20.39 | Shdwdrgn | sweet |
| 18:20.42 | SHEENmaster | 3. make a packages directory on the romdisk |
| 18:20.56 | Shdwdrgn | huh? |
| 18:20.57 | SHEENmaster | 4. add that packages directory to ipk so you can still install to rom |
| 18:21.15 | SHEENmaster | unless you dodn't give a shit about installing to rom, then just do steps 1 and 2 |
| 18:21.21 | Shdwdrgn | is there a how-to on that somewhere? |
| 18:22.00 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: not that I've seen; I'll probably write one. |
| 18:22.03 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: it isn't that difficult |
| 18:22.06 | Shdwdrgn | well really, once I get the basic software installed into rom, there's not much rom left anyway.... Do I give a shit about 3M of space in rom when I have 256M on the SD card? :-) |
| 18:22.22 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: my thoughts exactly |
| 18:22.37 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: I am considering modding DebianZaurus to mount the sd card as / |
| 18:22.43 | Shdwdrgn | and if I just stick with the base OZ image in rom, it will make upgrades/recovery much easier |
| 18:24.38 | Shdwdrgn | hmm... I should check my spam mail for a coupon from these guys... maybe I have something to get a discount <grin> |
| 18:25.06 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: blackmail discount, or actual offer? |
| 18:25.29 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: I just use filtering; when a particular spammer reaches 1mb they get a bill for $1 |
| 18:25.35 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: no one has paid yet :( |
| 18:25.48 | Shdwdrgn | haha |
| 18:25.52 | Shdwdrgn | I should try that |
| 18:27.06 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: I run my own mailserver, and I have all users sending shit to the "spam" account. |
| 18:27.43 | Shdwdrgn | with shipping... $82.99 for that 256M SD card... I like it! |
| 18:28.23 | Shdwdrgn | I want to know how to set up a baysian filter on mine... I'm running spamassassin now, but haven't had much luck with add-ons |
| 18:29.13 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: I just use the squirrelmail filters. |
| 18:29.25 | SHEENmaster | Shdwdrgn: it has spam addons, but I don't get enough to make them necessary |
| 18:29.51 | Shdwdrgn | <sigh> now I have to wait 7-9 days for shipping |
| 18:30.08 | Shdwdrgn | I run 3 domains from here |
| 18:30.26 | Shdwdrgn | sourpuss.net, gstroop.org, and onther one for my cousin |
| 18:30.53 | kergoth`bbl | Harlekin: pong |
| 18:30.59 | Shdwdrgn | hmm... wife is awake... guess I'd better go say good morning before I get in trouble <grin> |
| 18:31.09 | Harlekin | kergoth`bbl: allready forgot |
| 18:31.40 | kergoth`bbl | hehe |
| 18:39.46 | *** join/#openembedded noda (~noda@modemcable063.97-200-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 18:40.28 | kergoth | hey noda |
| 18:41.01 | noda | Moo! |
| 18:42.04 | *** join/#openembedded caffeine^ (~caffeine^@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 18:42.46 | noda | What's new? |
| 19:03.09 | treke | hmmm. no matter how bad things are going, it can always get worse :) |
| 19:04.27 | noda | treke: Story of my life :) |
| 19:05.09 | noda | kergoth: ping |
| 19:07.29 | kergoth | noda: pong |
| 19:07.50 | noda | kergoth: What do you mean by target selection? I'll have to make a download 'wizard' basically, right? |
| 19:08.23 | noda | Or -- nah, I guess I could just make it an option like the 'Releases' option... |
| 19:08.34 | kergoth | well, we already have selection of version, and mirror. we need version, mirror, and target device |
| 19:08.41 | noda | Right. Gotcha :) |
| 19:08.47 | kergoth | eventually we'll need a miscellanious parameter, i.e. gcc2 vs gcc3 |
| 19:08.54 | kergoth | bleh, cant type |
| 19:09.18 | noda | Oh, btw, would someone please try out http://www.adamhooper.com:4243/oz/ -- do the menus work? :) |
| 19:10.30 | kergoth | yup, they work |
| 19:10.31 | kergoth | in phoenix |
| 19:10.38 | noda | You can click on the sub-menus? |
| 19:10.41 | kergoth | hm, you should leave the submenu shown when you're _on_ a page in that submenu |
| 19:10.48 | kergoth | i.e. i pick install guide, the docs submenu stays displayed |
| 19:10.54 | kergoth | with install guide highlighted |
| 19:10.55 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:11.00 | kergoth | im just a picky bastard, dont mind me :) |
| 19:11.05 | noda | See, when *I* click on Install Guide the click falls through to faq. |
| 19:11.10 | noda | No, that's definitely reasonable. |
| 19:11.21 | noda | Just gotta think up a clever way to do it :) |
| 19:11.27 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:11.40 | noda | So I guess there's some strange bug in gecko that's happened only recently. |
| 19:11.58 | kergoth | also, the font size changes slightly on highlight |
| 19:12.04 | kergoth | I'd ditch that, the color change is sufficient |
| 19:12.05 | noda | Yeah, isn't that neat? :P |
| 19:12.07 | noda | Okay :) |
| 19:12.20 | kergoth | nah, it makes the menu keep readjusting itself to accomidate the font size change |
| 19:12.22 | noda | This is gonna be a whole new style, btw. |
| 19:12.27 | kergoth | draws the eye away from whats important |
| 19:12.29 | kergoth | cool |
| 19:12.29 | noda | It's gonna eventually be very cool :) |
| 19:12.47 | kergoth | just make sure you keep it _simple_ |
| 19:12.49 | kergoth | :) |
| 19:13.07 | noda | Keep it *what*? :P |
| 19:13.19 | noda | I dunno if it'll be the DEFAULT style or not. But it'll be *a* style :) |
| 19:13.46 | kergoth | heh, like our page right now, its simple. clean. to the point. even with the popout menus, its still clean |
| 19:13.56 | kergoth | the eye is drawn to the content |
| 19:13.59 | *** join/#openembedded killefiz (~sven@ach9-d9bba8f9.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:14.05 | kergoth | hey killefiz |
| 19:14.09 | noda | Yeah, this one is just an experiment in css really. So I guess it won't be default :) |
| 19:14.16 | killefiz | hi all |
| 19:14.25 | noda | I *will* be changing the site to use divs instead of a big table though, because that's The Way Things Should Be :) |
| 19:14.29 | kergoth | well just dont make it default without asking me, and we'll be fine |
| 19:14.33 | kergoth | good |
| 19:14.34 | noda | Right, I won't :) |
| 19:14.38 | kergoth | tables and i dont get along |
| 19:14.39 | killefiz | any news from the front? |
| 19:15.09 | noda | kergoth: Btw, those popup menus don't have any javascript, did you notice that? :P |
| 19:15.20 | kergoth | I didnt look, but i figured |
| 19:15.26 | kergoth | given the pages we were looking at last week :) |
| 19:15.32 | kergoth | pretty smooth |
| 19:15.39 | treke|uhoh | javascript is the tool of the devil |
| 19:15.45 | noda | :) |
| 19:15.46 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:15.55 | kergoth | noda: the left menu stretchesssss when the right one is small :) |
| 19:16.08 | kergoth | noda: faq->search is a good example |
| 19:16.09 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:16.25 | kergoth | hahaha |
| 19:16.28 | noda | kergoth: Dammit, I can't click on that one, my browser's broken :P |
| 19:16.29 | kergoth | that has some weird effects on the menus |
| 19:16.37 | noda | I've seen that though. That's a Mozilla bug I think :) |
| 19:16.41 | kergoth | i highlighted a submenu and it stretched farther to the right while i watched |
| 19:16.47 | kergoth | woooosh |
| 19:16.52 | noda | Yep :) |
| 19:16.52 | kergoth | okay im done, back to work |
| 19:16.56 | noda | Doesn't happen every time though. |
| 19:17.21 | kergoth | I should grab the current phoenix daily build |
| 19:18.33 | kergoth | time to fix our broken libc so i can finish the b500/c700 rom |
| 19:18.40 | kergoth | been procrastinating it for a while |
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| 19:24.17 | *** join/#openembedded George- (~Test@m190-mp1.cvx3-a.bre.dial.ntli.net) |
| 19:24.27 | George- | mickeyl: ping |
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| 20:08.38 | chouimat | hi |
| 20:09.20 | carsten | hi |
| 20:24.33 | mickeyl | kergoth: got my botmail? |
| 20:27.58 | *** join/#openembedded George- (~Test@m190-mp1.cvx3-a.bre.dial.ntli.net) |
| 20:29.31 | kergoth | mickeyl: yeah, looking at it now |
| 20:33.53 | mickeyl | kergoth: fine. |
| 20:39.21 | *** join/#openembedded TheMasterMind1 (foobar@h-68-164-249-135.MCLNVA23.covad.net) |
| 21:08.46 | *** join/#openembedded Dessimat0r (~root@public1-birk1-3-cust91.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) |
| 21:08.48 | Dessimat0r | lo all |
| 21:09.19 | George- | hey Dessimat0r |
| 21:10.02 | Dessimat0r | I'm gonna try building ALSA from a CVS snapshop, to see if it solves all my sound problems |
| 21:10.11 | Dessimat0r | *snapshop |
| 21:10.14 | Dessimat0r | shot! |
| 21:10.15 | Dessimat0r | lol |
| 21:10.20 | George- | on your z? ;) |
| 21:10.29 | Dessimat0r | no, on my pc, hehe ;) |
| 21:10.52 | Dessimat0r | its bitchin' about my Turtle Beach Santa Cruz |
| 21:11.32 | Dessimat0r | or Audiologic SonicFury, as its known over here |
| 21:11.35 | Dessimat0r | hehe |
| 21:13.36 | Dessimat0r | thats freakish... if I press the middle button in Konquerer file manager, it takes me to http://Directory |
| 21:21.25 | *** join/#openembedded [George] (~Test@m347-mp1.cvx1-b.man.dial.ntli.net) |
| 21:39.13 | *** join/#openembedded godsmoke (~godsmoke@66.93.85.21) |
| 21:45.51 | [George] | omg |
| 21:45.58 | [George] | Don't tell me that the opie.net.wox.org feed has JUST been updated |
| 21:46.00 | [George] | ARGH! |
| 21:59.37 | *** join/#openembedded Gatu|ZZzzZZzz (~gatu_kon@ppp-62-245-160-123.mnet-online.de) |
| 22:13.42 | godsmoke | hey, anybody around? |
| 22:13.48 | godsmoke | or is it just dead in here? |
| 22:14.04 | carsten | no |
| 22:14.32 | sheenmaster | I'm here. |
| 22:14.36 | sheenmaster | I was dead earlier. |
| 22:14.47 | sheenmaster | #zaurus is usually filled with flamewars, go there for some fun. |
| 22:15.02 | gaurdian | bah....I am NOT the one flaming :) |
| 22:15.11 | godsmoke | hmm ... who is running kismet on OZ 3.1rc2? I forget what packages I have to get rid of, and which ones I have to downgrade |
| 22:15.21 | godsmoke | flamewars about what? |
| 22:15.24 | treke|uhoh | its Zxcvb , the troll |
| 22:15.37 | sheenmaster | godsmoke: just upgrade hostap |
| 22:15.41 | gaurdian | true enough..that was a REAL streatch there |
| 22:16.19 | godsmoke | sheenmaster: uhh ... kergoth, I specifically remember saying I had to get rid of 2 packages, and then downgrade one package |
| 22:16.39 | godsmoke | sheenmaster: my hostap was already updated, because the feed is weeks old |
| 22:16.39 | sheenmaster | godsmoke: the wifi problem? |
| 22:16.45 | godsmoke | problem? |
| 22:17.06 | sheenmaster | godsmoke: I thought you were talking about the wifi card compatibility issue w/ rc2 |
| 22:17.12 | godsmoke | no |
| 22:17.18 | godsmoke | I'm talking about a kismet issue |
| 22:17.27 | godsmoke | and how can you have a non-updated hostap? |
| 22:17.30 | sheenmaster | godsmoke: oh, I want that resolved as well |
| 22:17.38 | godsmoke | I mean, the rc2 feed is old |
| 22:17.47 | godsmoke | sheenmaster: it has been, but it's a little workaround |
| 22:17.52 | sheenmaster | godsmoke: the hostap in rc2 is missing some card definitions |
| 22:17.53 | godsmoke | kergoth told me how |
| 22:18.01 | godsmoke | sheenmaster: oh? |
| 22:18.08 | sheenmaster | godsmoke: lemme know when you figure out what needs to be done |
| 22:18.12 | godsmoke | ok |
| 22:18.13 | sheenmaster | godsmoke: I love warwalking |
| 22:18.27 | sheenmaster | godsmoke: It's even more fun to see where people are browsing during class. |
| 22:18.50 | Twiun | hey guys |
| 22:18.54 | godsmoke | hi |
| 22:20.29 | Twiun | sheenmaster: did you get my answer re Wonka sdk? |
| 22:21.23 | sheenmaster | Twiun: no |
| 22:21.30 | sheenmaster | Twiun: is there one? |
| 22:22.40 | Twiun | sheenmaster: no, but I tested jikes with the runtime jar from wonka and it compiled my classes without problem |
| 22:23.12 | sheenmaster | Twiun: jikes? |
| 22:23.41 | Twiun | sheenmaster: http://oss.software.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/jikes/ |
| 22:24.11 | sheenmaster | Twiun: no working cross compiler :-( |
| 22:24.18 | sheenmaster | Twiun: are you porting that as well? |
| 22:24.45 | Twiun | sheenmaster: no, no, it's already compiled for the ARM |
| 22:24.57 | sheenmaster | Twiun: great, with an ipkg? |
| 22:25.11 | Twiun | sheenmaster: nope, it's just a single executable |
| 22:25.28 | George- | Twiun: ping |
| 22:25.30 | Twiun | I don't want to bundle it with wonka as it's 2.2mb |
| 22:25.36 | Twiun | George-: PoOoOong |
| 22:25.43 | George- | Twiun: does wonka work yet? :) |
| 22:25.59 | sheenmaster | Twiun: k, if you make an ipkg I would appreciate it; I'm starting a feed for stuff that should be in OZ but isn't. |
| 22:26.03 | Twiun | George-: it's not yet complete for gui work |
| 22:26.05 | sheenmaster | Twiun: like nethack |
| 22:26.09 | George- | Twiun: k |
| 22:26.26 | ljp | whats a gui? |
| 22:26.36 | sheenmaster | George-: I'd call it 1% usable in GUI and 99% usable in console |
| 22:26.42 | sheenmaster | ljp: Graphical User Interface |
| 22:27.00 | sheenmaster | ljp: as opposed to a Command Line User Interface |
| 22:27.00 | Twiun | sheenmaster: well... where should the jikes binary reside? (it's not a qt app afterall) should I symlink it to javac? blah, blah, blah... there's lots of questions that go with a jikes package |
| 22:27.16 | George- | ljp: lol, stop acting as if you don't know anything ;) |
| 22:27.26 | sheenmaster | Twiun: yes you should symlink to javac and wonka should symlink to java |
| 22:27.49 | Twiun | sheenmaster: what happens if someone needs both Wonka and Jeode installed? |
| 22:27.58 | Twiun | sheenmaster: or even kaffe as well? |
| 22:28.11 | sheenmaster | Twiun: then leave it as jikesc or whatever |
| 22:28.27 | sheenmaster | Twiun: and bitchslap them for being little bitches and taking the name java |
| 22:28.33 | Twiun | hehehe |
| 22:28.41 | sheenmaster | Twiun: what are ipkg makers of Java software supposed to do? |
| 22:29.06 | Twiun | sheenmaster: there aren't any guidelines - most hardcode 'evm' as the jvm |
| 22:29.15 | sheenmaster | Twiun: that sucks shit |
| 22:29.18 | Twiun | sheenmaster: seeing as that's what Jeode's executable is called |
| 22:29.28 | sheenmaster | Twiun: oh, do you mind if I include Wonka in my feed? |
| 22:29.48 | sheenmaster | Twiun: (I know you can't stop me, but I don't like to abuse OSS licenses.) |
| 22:30.08 | Twiun | sheenmaster: not at all - but wait a few mins so that I disable the gui classes (no nasty surprises if someone tries them) |
| 22:30.28 | *** join/#openembedded caffeine^ (~caffeine^@clt74-76-015.carolina.rr.com) |
| 22:30.28 | Twiun | instead of me receiving complaints about it |
| 22:30.33 | sheenmaster | Twiun: k |
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| 22:31.42 | sheenmaster | Twiun: I'll also link to your page and mention that it's for console-use-only. |
| 22:32.39 | Twiun | sheenmaster: thanks |
| 22:33.12 | sheenmaster | Twiun: thank you! I'll include kaffe as well if I can find a working version. |
| 22:33.33 | sheenmaster | Twiun: the site is http://zaurus.frob.us/ but I haven't posted the packages yet. |
| 22:33.59 | sheenmaster | Twiun: maybe http://zaurus.frob.us/feed/ , but I don't think that's necessary |
| 22:34.14 | Twiun | sheenmaster: dns hasn't propagated yet :) |
| 22:34.44 | sheenmaster | Twiun: ah damnit |
| 22:34.59 | *** join/#openembedded chouimat (~dieu@modemcable120.184-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 22:34.59 | *** mode/#openembedded [+o chouimat] by ChanServ |
| 22:35.00 | sheenmaster | Twiun: http://frob.us/ http://www.frob.us/ http://sheenmaster.frob.us/ ? |
| 22:35.17 | chouimat | ulyx weather |
| 22:35.18 | ulyx | 50 minutes ago, on Sun Feb 16 22:00:00 UTC 2003, the wind was blowing at a speed of 8.75 meters per second (19.56 miles per hour) from the West/Southwest at CYQB. The temperature was -20 degrees Celsius (-4 degrees Fahrenheit), and the pressure was 1039 hPa (30.00 inHg). The relative humidity was 40.3%. There were a few clouds at a height of 7315 meters (24000 feet). |
| 22:35.18 | sheenmaster | Twiun: It's been up for more than a month, is your dns server on mars? |
| 22:35.37 | Twiun | sheenmaster: frob.us works, it's the zaurus entry that doesn't seem to |
| 22:35.46 | sheenmaster | chouimat: might wanna make it say what city/state/vountry that's for. |
| 22:36.02 | sheenmaster | Twiun: I have a wildcard entry in bind |
| 22:36.11 | sheenmaster | Twiun: does http://www.frob.us/ work? |
| 22:36.28 | chouimat | sheenmaster:nope |
| 22:36.42 | Twiun | sheenmaster: yup |
| 22:37.14 | Twiun | sheenmaster: and http://sheenmaster.frob.us/ gives a dir listing |
| 22:37.22 | sheenmaster | Twiun: then use http://frob.us:80 as a proxy server to access http://zaurus.frob.us/ |
| 22:37.34 | sheenmaster | Twiun: as well it shoould |
| 22:38.38 | sheenmaster | Twiun: g2g |
| 22:40.21 | Twiun | SHEENmaster|dead: aye, it worked... have to say though that *I* haven't got my Z on the web (too fiddly as it's always on the cradle) so the feed's index page isn't much use :) |
| 22:42.16 | Twiun | SHEENmaster|dead: ok, you can use http://adorphuye.com/~twiun/wonka/open-wonka_0.9.4-smw2_arm.ipk in your feed, it'll barf (with helpful debug) on anything that uses the AWT |
| 22:48.07 | TheMasterMind1 | i want the vim script that makes vim go back to the line you were at when you closed the file |
| 22:48.25 | chouimat | hi TheMasterMind1 |
| 22:48.31 | TheMasterMind1 | hi |
| 22:48.51 | chouimat | anyone saw kergoth today? |
| 22:49.00 | TheMasterMind1 | ~seen kergoth |
| 22:49.05 | | kergoth is currently on #opie (20h 4m 59s) #uclibc (20h 4m 59s) #picogui (20h 4m 59s) #tuxscreen (20h 4m 59s) #zaurus (20h 4m 59s) #elinux (20h 4m 59s) #openembedded (20h 4m 59s) #openzaurus (20h 4m 59s). Has said a total of 1152 messages. Is idling for 2h 9m 59s |
| 22:49.05 | ulyx | kergoth was last seen 2 hours, 9 minutes and 57 seconds ago, saying mspencer: from what i hear anyway |
| 22:53.19 | *** join/#openembedded Kenpo (Kenpo@p62.246.113.222.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 22:53.43 | Kenpo | good evening |
| 22:53.55 | TheMasterMind1 | hi |
| 22:54.22 | Twiun | hey |
| 23:12.17 | godsmoke | hey TheMasterMind1, you around? |
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| 23:52.33 | TheMasterMind1 | godsmoke: ya |
| 23:55.14 | godsmoke | TheMasterMind1: are you running kismet on your Z? |
| 23:55.57 | TheMasterMind1 | ya |
| 23:57.22 | godsmoke | and what version of OZ are you using? |