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| 02:27.28 | *** topic/#oe is OpenEmbedded Developer Lounge | Web: http://openembedded.org | Repositories: http://git.openembedded.org/ | Primary Repo Mirrors: https://github.com/openembedded | This is not a distro or machine support channel |
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| 06:59.44 | SHW_ | I believe, we must have recipe for almost all widely used applications. |
| 06:59.56 | SHW_ | If yes then where I can find ? |
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| 07:05.22 | LetoThe2nd | SHW_: http://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/recipes/ |
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| 07:12.05 | mckoan | good morning |
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| 07:50.37 | SHW_ | LetoThe2nd, Great ! So can we add recipes from different category to create a distro as per out need ? |
| 07:52.48 | LetoThe2nd | SHW_: well thats the whole point of OE (which you basically just didn't want to see until now because you were so fixated on the "i need to generate a toolchain!" mindset)" |
| 07:53.31 | LetoThe2nd | SHW_: its about mixing and matching layers to pick exactly what you need in your imag4e |
| 07:53.32 | SHW_ | LetoThe2nd, You got me |
| 07:54.35 | SHW_ | LetoThe2nd, But I am concerned about Toolchain because there are some proprietary packages and few non-oe existent packages. which I want to add. |
| 07:55.09 | SHW_ | Since I am much familiar with toolchain for compiling all needed package. So for my comfort zone, I am after Toolchain |
| 07:55.25 | LetoThe2nd | SHW_: so create recipes, bundle them in your custom layer, done. |
| 07:56.21 | SHW_ | LetoThe2nd, It will be new thing to learn then. Accepted. |
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| 07:59.13 | LetoThe2nd | SHW_: the point is that you gain reproductibility. "just a toolchain is my comfort zone" usually implies this workflow: i compile this like taht... and then i compile this other thing like that... and then i need this install script... then that install script... and finally this manual processes her, and there, and voila, see, here's the final image |
| 07:59.33 | LetoThe2nd | which is 100% job security, and 100% maintenance nightmare. |
| 08:01.09 | LetoThe2nd | if you got your stuff correctly prepared in recipes and even apply only minimal SCM, thenyou can basically reproduce any version that you shipped, any time. and its not only one build guru who can do it, but anybody who knows the basics of OE. |
| 08:01.53 | LetoThe2nd | (which maybe doesn't feel equally elite, but is certainly a good engineering practise) |
| 08:02.56 | SHW_ | Yes. 100% Job security is prime and vital goal here to keep the things in pocket. |
| 08:03.12 | SHW_ | Else, automation will make me go out of job |
| 08:03.37 | LetoThe2nd | SHW_: well then better leave OE alone, and grab the first edition of karim yaghmours book. |
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| 08:03.50 | LetoThe2nd | its basically that. |
| 08:03.54 | LetoThe2nd | ;-) |
| 08:04.38 | SHW_ | Man |
| 08:05.03 | LetoThe2nd | in case you didn't notice, there is a semicolon on that smiley |
| 08:05.22 | SHW_ | Now after seeing OE feature, I can't let it go |
| 08:05.48 | SHW_ | (Yes. I first laugh at myself and to your sense of humor) |
| 08:06.32 | SHW_ | Here, I guess devtool will be my friend for **create recipes, bundle them in your custom layer** |
| 08:06.58 | LetoThe2nd | SHW_: but seriously. OE is big and complex, and can be overwhelming. both in learning curve, and also not every project actually needs the power. depending on what you need, buildroot might certainly an alternative |
| 08:07.31 | LetoThe2nd | SHW_: there is *extensive* and *excellent* documentation on how to write recipes in the yocto doc set :) |
| 08:08.32 | SHW_ | LetoThe2nd, I had given first thought to buildroot only but it's first difference with OE is "toolchain creation". Buildroot DO NOT offer any toolchain. Hence I switch to OE. |
| 08:09.32 | LetoThe2nd | SHW_: oh, buildroot certainly does that too. and like i said: your mindset is fundamentally incompatible with any of those tools if you stick to "give me a toolchain!!11!!one!!" instead of "hey just do the complete build, i don't care how" |
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| 08:51.39 | SHW_ | LetoThe2nd, On a honest note, I do understand what you said. But my need is totally different than normal. |
| 08:54.31 | LetoThe2nd | SHW_: on a very honest note, about 80% of people think they have super special usecases, and that its only them. in at least 95% of those cases, it just isn't true. if you are actually willing to elaborate (without readymade prejudice) then i'm willing to listen and see. if you continue to stick to "i'm special, i need a toolchain, why don't you just believe me?" well, then... i'm probably not the one to |
| 08:54.37 | LetoThe2nd | help you. |
| 08:55.03 | LetoThe2nd | no offense meant, thats just my experience. |
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| 08:58.00 | SHW_ | Got you. |
| 09:01.03 | SHW_ | When I create distro (out of toolchain), I deploy it at various hardwares. But some hardware need special tuning for performance then I have to either recompile a package or change some settings. Changing configuration or settings is easy but for recompilation purpose, I have to do that on toolchain |
| 09:02.09 | LetoThe2nd | ok, go ahead. |
| 09:02.16 | SHW_ | And I can not have different Distro version for different hardwares (Company rules). So I must have generic distro which will work on wide range of hardware without compromising performance. |
| 09:04.20 | LetoThe2nd | so you need this: (basic image runs everywhere) -> (magic modification depending on hw type) -> (many images for many hw types) |
| 09:04.42 | LetoThe2nd | and your company rule says that they all have to use the same starting image. |
| 09:04.51 | LetoThe2nd | or what does "distro" mean? |
| 09:05.13 | LetoThe2nd | does it mean "everything we ship has to be based off debian X.Y"? |
| 09:05.33 | SHW_ | (Almost) Yes |
| 09:05.42 | LetoThe2nd | yes to which? |
| 09:06.08 | SHW_ | Yes that it should be compatible with debian X.Y |
| 09:06.22 | LetoThe2nd | well then you're on the totally wrong track with OE |
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| 09:07.18 | LetoThe2nd | maybe take a loot at the infrastructure that linaro uses to crank out various specialized toolchains. |
| 09:07.47 | SHW_ | That is why I want to be with OE to demonstrate them that sticking with some widely used distro for compatibility issue is not a good idea. |
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| 09:08.01 | SHW_ | Let's have our own recipes. |
| 09:08.04 | LetoThe2nd | but if you you want to harness OE into a build apparatus for X patched toolchains to feed a deb package builder, then its just ... wrong |
| 09:08.49 | LetoThe2nd | there's nothing bad with debian, if it fits the need. |
| 09:09.57 | SHW_ | Well LetoThe2nd , I want to propose the company that building a distro from scratch with the help of OE is a very good idea than compiling everything from scratch. |
| 09:10.07 | LetoThe2nd | um. |
| 09:10.26 | LetoThe2nd | OE *DOES* recompile everything from scratch. you just don't do it manually. |
| 09:11.04 | SHW_ | Yes. Exactly. Manual intervention is not there. We can use company's human resources for other tasks then. |
| 09:11.34 | SHW_ | (May be we are going to some other direction.) |
| 09:12.33 | LetoThe2nd | so what i see at the moment is: 1) you have a whatever company rule that just doesn't mesh with OE technology at all. (not "special", but "just something else") and 2) the absolutely standard use case. |
| 09:20.52 | SHW_ | I didn't get you |
| 09:21.42 | LetoThe2nd | what you descibed as you "is"-state just is not special, its just something else than what OE does. (the 1) ) |
| 09:22.17 | LetoThe2nd | and what you descibed as "want to convince"-state is about the standard usecase of OE: create specialized images per hardware. (the 2) ) |
| 09:22.20 | LetoThe2nd | not special at all. |
| 09:23.14 | SHW_ | OK |
| 09:23.21 | SHW_ | So I fall in first 80% |
| 09:23.37 | LetoThe2nd | no |
| 09:24.00 | LetoThe2nd | you would fall into the 80% if you manage o convince people that OE is for you |
| 09:24.28 | LetoThe2nd | right now, you're "just a debian user", be it good or bad, it doesn't matter. |
| 09:26.02 | SHW_ | OK |
| 09:26.34 | SHW_ | So back to OE now. |
| 09:27.26 | SHW_ | I must gather my requirement, download those recipes if available else "create it and bundle it". After all recipes gathered, I must bitbake them to create an image. |
| 09:27.37 | LetoThe2nd | no |
| 09:27.55 | SHW_ | (I was sure, I am missing something.) |
| 09:28.11 | LetoThe2nd | you must download the layers containing the recipes. and add them to your build |
| 09:28.39 | LetoThe2nd | and you must define an image recipe that suits your needs, e.g. defines what you want to go inside. |
| 09:28.54 | LetoThe2nd | then you do: bitbake my-funny-image |
| 09:29.08 | LetoThe2nd | thats it. no manual building of recipes to go in there. |
| 09:29.34 | SHW_ | very well |
| 09:29.35 | LetoThe2nd | SHW_: seriously, there is excellent quickstart documentation on all of this. |
| 09:31.05 | SHW_ | LetoThe2nd, Certainly. I will go through it. Surely. |
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| 09:32.37 | LetoThe2nd | if you happen to be near scotland, on thu, oct 25th in edinburgh is the yocto dev day which offers all of that in a condensed form |
| 09:33.39 | SHW_ | Oh. Thanks. |
| 09:34.27 | LetoThe2nd | we're currently in the process of ironing out some issues with registration, but i'm told that the beginner track (which exatly offers the information you miss) has still free seats. |
| 09:35.50 | SHW_ | Well, I am from Asia. So chances are very slim that I will attend. |
| 09:36.03 | LetoThe2nd | thats sure ;-) |
| 09:37.25 | LetoThe2nd | SHW_: here's the whole presentation shbang from one of the previous events: https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/images/1/1d/Ypdd-2017.02-ELC-Portland.pdf |
| 09:37.38 | SHW_ | any video tutorial do we have ? |
| 09:38.12 | LetoThe2nd | no video worth recommending that i'm aware of |
| 09:38.48 | LetoThe2nd | if anything, the closest should be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJVYxlkHees |
| 09:39.21 | LetoThe2nd | or generally anthing https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZC0bMcgbB8v-CViidufLUw/videos |
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| 09:49.22 | SHW_ | Going through PDF. Seems to be very helpful. |
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| 23:08.30 | ant_home | khem, patch finally sent to the ML |
| 23:10.06 | ant_home | there isn't any easy way to split shared/static afais |
| 23:42.21 | khem | ant_home: thanks I staged it in mut |