| 00:09.19 | Crofton|work | FYI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-M0gkpuWb4&index=42&list=PLGeM09tlguZTP9-9nMQNGiT_2PPFay0Cs |
| 00:46.41 | bluelightning | I saw the videos for ELCE had gone up... would you recommend I watch that one? |
| 01:36.34 | khem` | meta-debian ??? |
| 01:37.16 | bluelightning | yoi |
| 01:37.27 | bluelightning | you'd not heard of this before? |
| 01:37.56 | bluelightning | (bear with me while I get used to the US keyboard enter key position again...) |
| 01:38.02 | khem` | I have .. |
| 01:38.37 | khem` | whats lacking in OE/Yocto that they needed to do this marriage of giants |
| 01:39.12 | khem` | I remember in dusseldorf they talked about it |
| 01:40.11 | khem` | I myself will soon publish meta-openwrt |
| 01:40.22 | bluelightning | security updates is one of the major justifications I've heard for meta-debian |
| 01:40.27 | khem` | but thats just additional packages that openwrt has |
| 01:41.18 | khem` | He is saying Yocto project doesnt have LTS |
| 01:41.33 | khem` | 2 years is what he thinks |
| 01:41.39 | khem` | and debian is 5+ |
| 01:41.52 | khem` | some arguments might be relevant |
| 01:43.06 | bluelightning | I don't doubt they have reasons, I'm just not sure I'd have gone down the same path |
| 01:44.50 | khem` | hmm took a look at this layer |
| 01:44.53 | *** join/#oe jchonig (~quassel@firewall.honig.net) |
| 01:44.57 | khem` | I wouldnt use it |
| 01:45.20 | khem` | they are preparing sources from debian source debs |
| 01:45.28 | khem` | but then building it differently |
| 01:45.39 | khem` | so neither OE not debian build rules |
| 01:45.49 | khem` | are used exclusively |
| 01:46.24 | khem` | so I would call it debOEn |
| 01:46.26 | khem` | :) |
| 01:46.39 | khem` | a new jargon |
| 01:46.43 | bluelightning | hah |
| 01:46.57 | khem` | I would have rather encouraged them to take poky and supported it LTS |
| 01:47.06 | khem` | and be done with it |
| 01:47.12 | bluelightning | right, agreed |
| 01:47.23 | khem` | have a mechanism to import the security updates |
| 01:47.44 | khem` | may be a class to inform about whats not yet imported |
| 01:47.50 | khem` | and done |
| 01:47.59 | bluelightning | right, if we need to do a comparison of the patches in debian and ours, even automated - by all means we could do that |
| 01:48.23 | khem` | CE group could have done that and contributed the class |
| 01:48.40 | khem` | and also come up and said we want to support 1.6 release for 10 years |
| 01:48.45 | khem` | no one would have said no |
| 01:49.43 | khem` | closes the video |
| 01:50.19 | Crofton | the annoying thing is my understannding is they didn't talk to anyone with OE or Debian |
| 01:50.29 | Crofton | They think they get five years for free |
| 01:50.36 | Crofton | bu then they fall off a cliff |
| 01:51.24 | Crofton | My take is they kicked the can down the road five years and do not really expect to do 10 years |
| 01:57.14 | khem` | whatever it is if they are expecting a system holding maintained for 5+ years its an effort |
| 01:57.21 | khem` | its better to join hands |
| 01:57.43 | khem` | then to create something that falls on you fully to maintain |
| 01:57.51 | khem` | as it ages the burden beomes more |
| 01:58.28 | bluelightning | seems to me we ought to put forward some kind of official position on this, even if it's only a comment |
| 01:59.17 | Crofton|work | yeah |
| 01:59.22 | khem` | I would think we will welcome any contribution to maintained layers from the CE project |
| 01:59.42 | Crofton|work | yep |
| 01:59.49 | khem` | and also they are welcome to participate in mailing lists |
| 01:59.53 | khem` | and ask questions |
| 02:00.05 | Crofton|work | my take is we would not be happy on something that depended on maintaining debian for 10 years |
| 02:00.36 | khem` | definitely |
| 02:00.45 | Crofton|work | which is my underrstanding of their plan |
| 02:01.19 | Crofton|work | like I said, in five years their basis dries up |
| 02:02.42 | Crofton|work | I'm going to forward the talk to the YP AB board with the explanantion that this uses a layer to scrape debian patches to do the maint work |
| 02:02.53 | Crofton|work | But I expect that at five years they have a problem |
| 02:03.06 | Crofton|work | is that an accurate assesment? |
| 02:03.19 | Crofton|work | has low expectations anyone on the AB with really care |
| 02:03.32 | khem` | I think the value proposition of OE is diminished for them |
| 02:03.42 | Crofton|work | How so? |
| 02:03.54 | khem` | by not participating |
| 02:04.12 | Crofton|work | We certainly would provide at least moral support for someone supporting a release for longer |
| 02:04.16 | Crofton|work | ah yes, exactly |
| 02:04.37 | khem` | so whoever at AB has some links into them can guide them |
| 02:04.44 | khem` | and provide some recourse |
| 02:04.48 | khem` | if they are willing to take |
| 02:05.28 | Crofton|work | what sucks is we have no resources to help them, other than encouraging them to particpate |
| 02:05.41 | Crofton|work | and hope maybe some other users are interested in LTS |
| 02:05.57 | Crofton|work | but most OE users doing LTS are also selling the support |
| 02:13.27 | khem` | I guess we are sufferring the typical embedded system fragmentation even in this day and age |
| 02:13.32 | khem` | its mindset |
| 02:13.41 | khem` | that needs to change for collaboration |
| 02:13.59 | khem` | they still think our problem is so special that it needs a special solution |
| 02:14.11 | khem` | its a wrong foot forward |
| 02:14.26 | khem` | sure shot "leg before wicket" if you know cricket :) |
| 02:15.30 | Crofton|work | I do :) |
| 02:51.34 | *** join/#oe Crofton (~balister@pool-71-171-14-127.ronkva.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:12.43 | *** join/#oe uwe__ (~uwe_@dslb-088-067-189-228.088.067.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
| 03:29.18 | *** join/#oe t0mmy (~tprrt@ram31-2-82-228-88-46.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 05:06.26 | *** join/#oe AndersD (~anders@h83-209-191-235.dynamic.se.alltele.net) |
| 05:31.56 | *** join/#oe heeen (heeen@endboss.org) |
| 06:22.13 | *** join/#oe roric (~roric@h196n19-vrr-a31.ias.bredband.telia.com) |
| 06:25.33 | *** join/#oe tasslehoff (~Tasslehof@77.40.182.98) |
| 06:35.58 | *** join/#oe morphis (~morphis@p50862AAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:37.15 | tasslehoff | After moving to 2.0 I can't ssh into my system. The logs show this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/160616 |
| 06:49.26 | *** join/#oe morphis (~morphis@p50862AAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:50.05 | tasslehoff | disabling PAM in sshd_config, and I can log in again. but I suspect that is not The Fix. |
| 06:51.16 | tasslehoff | and now I see that I have a bbappend that adds my own sshd_config, so I'll dig in my own backyard first. |
| 06:54.48 | *** join/#oe AndersD (~anders@h83-209-191-235.dynamic.se.alltele.net) |
| 07:16.08 | *** join/#oe Guest46 (~textual@pool-173-55-9-27.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) |
| 07:16.48 | *** join/#oe Guest46 (~textual@pool-173-55-9-27.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) |
| 07:24.15 | *** join/#oe rob_w (~rob@unaffiliated/rob-w/x-1112029) |
| 07:46.52 | *** join/#oe bluelightning (~paul@pdpc/supporter/professional/bluelightning) |
| 07:47.03 | mckoan | good morning |
| 07:57.41 | *** join/#oe jbrianceau_away (uid10952@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vnrxttwnvivjzdzr) |
| 08:02.48 | *** join/#oe phdeswer (~phdeswer@91-159-55-220.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 08:12.14 | *** join/#oe jeroen_ (~jeroen@D57E080A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 08:18.33 | tasslehoff | has a working ssh again, and shuffles back to his dark corner |
| 08:19.52 | *** join/#oe noraply (~nora@sestofw01.enea.se) |
| 08:25.15 | *** join/#oe florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 08:43.08 | *** join/#oe diego_r (~diego@host65-246-static.10-188-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:45.35 | *** join/#oe ao2 (~ao2@2001:1418:117::1) |
| 08:45.57 | *** join/#oe yann|work (~yann@LFbn-1-1026-146.w86-247.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:52.31 | *** join/#oe ftonello (~quassel@81.145.202.106) |
| 09:04.11 | *** join/#oe maxin (~maxin@194.136.86.45) |
| 09:27.47 | *** join/#oe t0mmy_ (~tprrt@217.114.201.133) |
| 09:30.23 | *** join/#oe jku (jku@nat/intel/x-aapklutrlotkonmq) |
| 09:31.17 | *** join/#oe heeen (heeen@endboss.org) |
| 09:37.53 | *** join/#oe jackmitch|home (~Thunderbi@cpc2-slam8-2-0-cust880.2-4.cable.virginm.net) |
| 10:03.51 | *** join/#oe rburton (~Adium@35.106.2.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 10:09.35 | *** join/#oe heeen (heeen@endboss.org) |
| 10:18.54 | *** join/#oe jonathanmaw (~jonathanm@82-70-136-246.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 10:34.16 | *** join/#oe ldnunes (~ldnunes_@177.194.194.57) |
| 10:42.31 | *** join/#oe rob_w (~bob@unaffiliated/rob-w/x-1112029) |
| 11:48.43 | *** join/#oe caiortp (~inatel@131.221.240.204) |
| 11:56.03 | *** join/#oe ftonello (~quassel@81.145.202.106) |
| 12:10.10 | *** join/#oe ddom (~ddom@p5093c375.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:13.17 | *** join/#oe tsramos (tsramos@nat/intel/x-yhuvnbjaichzjtzz) |
| 12:16.34 | *** join/#oe mr_science (~sarnold@gatekeeper.gentoogeek.org) |
| 12:16.34 | *** join/#oe mr_science (~sarnold@gentoo/developer/nerdboy) |
| 12:21.03 | *** join/#oe ao2 (~ao2@2001:1418:117::1) |
| 12:38.32 | *** join/#oe morphis (~morphis@p50862AAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:43.34 | *** join/#oe phdeswer (~phdeswer@91-159-55-220.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:06.09 | *** join/#oe jonathanmaw (~jonathanm@82-70-136-246.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 13:12.10 | *** join/#oe tsramos (~tsramos@134.134.137.73) |
| 13:19.22 | *** join/#oe tsramos (~tsramos@192.55.55.37) |
| 13:52.58 | *** join/#oe dv__ (~quassel@chello062178118086.5.14.vie.surfer.at) |
| 13:55.40 | *** join/#oe Nilesh_ (uid116340@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-skuqztrslqysipjb) |
| 13:55.48 | *** join/#oe NileshKokane (uid116340@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kudnlemfipfaznrt) |
| 14:20.40 | *** join/#oe ftonello (~quassel@81.145.202.106) |
| 14:23.22 | *** join/#oe _morphis (~morphis@fiona.nas-admin.org) |
| 14:39.51 | *** join/#oe trondeau (~trondeau@c-174-62-214-216.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) |
| 14:51.16 | *** join/#oe LetoThe2nd (~jd@unaffiliated/letothe2nd) |
| 15:06.43 | *** join/#oe jku (jku@nat/intel/x-ygrzdspzvppvawru) |
| 15:06.52 | *** join/#oe belen1 (Adium@nat/intel/x-dnekswnwazbijrak) |
| 15:13.14 | *** join/#oe khem` (~khem@unaffiliated/khem) |
| 16:04.08 | *** join/#oe tsramos (tsramos@nat/intel/x-emjglrpontmaviui) |
| 16:13.17 | *** join/#oe ftonello (~quassel@81.145.202.106) |
| 16:15.33 | *** join/#oe belen1 (~Adium@192.198.151.45) |
| 16:17.49 | *** join/#oe oldtopman (~oldtopman@unaffiliated/oldtopman) |
| 16:40.53 | *** join/#oe waTeim (~jeffw@cpe-65-190-63-66.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 16:51.55 | *** join/#oe rob_w (~rob@unaffiliated/rob-w/x-1112029) |
| 16:54.00 | *** join/#oe bluelightning (~paul@222-155-155-99.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 16:54.00 | *** join/#oe bluelightning (~paul@pdpc/supporter/professional/bluelightning) |
| 16:54.35 | *** join/#oe Jackie (~quassel@106.120.101.38) |
| 17:02.11 | *** join/#oe berton (~fabio@201.22.227.56) |
| 17:41.29 | *** join/#oe eFfeM (~frans@c73189.upc-c.chello.nl) |
| 17:59.48 | *** join/#oe jonathanmaw (~jonathanm@82-70-136-246.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 18:02.06 | *** join/#oe nerdboy (~sarnold@gatekeeper.gentoogeek.org) |
| 18:02.27 | *** join/#oe nerdboy (~sarnold@gentoo/developer/nerdboy) |
| 18:17.56 | *** join/#oe Jay7 (~jay@2.94.19.54) |
| 18:29.42 | *** join/#oe t0mmy (~tprrt@217.114.201.133) |
| 18:32.17 | *** join/#oe belen2 (~Adium@192.198.151.45) |
| 18:41.27 | *** join/#oe hrw (~hrw@redhat/hrw) |
| 18:45.05 | *** join/#oe jackmitch|home (~Thunderbi@cpc2-slam8-2-0-cust880.2-4.cable.virginm.net) |
| 18:48.18 | *** join/#oe cbrake (~Thunderbi@cable2-pool191-cs-134.doycomm.com) |
| 19:04.47 | *** join/#oe rtollert (~rtollert@130.164.62.197) |
| 19:12.45 | *** join/#oe jeroen_ (~jeroen@5ED6B7F1.cm-7-7c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 19:23.02 | *** join/#oe _morphis (~morphis@fiona.nas-admin.org) |
| 19:27.17 | *** join/#oe rtollert (~rtollert@130.164.62.121) |
| 19:28.00 | *** join/#oe darkschneider (~gab@93-32-51-166.ip32.fastwebnet.it) |
| 19:37.30 | *** join/#oe maxin (~maxin@dsl-espbrasgw1-54f9c9-95.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:39.00 | *** join/#oe khem` (~khem@unaffiliated/khem) |
| 19:39.03 | *** join/#oe jchonig (~quassel@firewall.honig.net) |
| 19:48.42 | *** join/#oe khem` (~khem@unaffiliated/khem) |
| 20:24.25 | *** join/#oe rtollert (~rtollert@130.164.62.197) |
| 20:36.53 | *** join/#oe yann|work (~yann@nan92-1-81-57-214-146.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:43.45 | *** join/#oe oob (~paulg@173.239.178.230) |
| 21:16.27 | *** join/#oe morphis (~morphis@p50862AAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:32.34 | *** join/#oe flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 21:33.32 | *** join/#oe florian_kc (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 22:00.34 | *** join/#oe belen_ (~sailfish@17.114.2.81.in-addr.arpa) |
| 22:16.56 | *** join/#oe erbo (~erik@li444-24.members.linode.com) |
| 22:43.15 | *** join/#oe ant_home (~ant__@host84-223-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 23:18.30 | *** join/#oe scot (~scot@130.164.62.160) |