| 00:02.08 | bluelightning | FYI folks, the OE layer index is now updating properly again |
| 00:08.03 | JaMa | is someone already working on reviving oestats-client? |
| 00:08.42 | JaMa | I'll probably do something like that, I've already e-mailed Jeremy Laine, because it seems that server-side of it is no longer available |
| 00:10.06 | bluelightning | JaMa: remind me, what did that do? |
| 00:11.43 | JaMa | bluelightning: sending reports of failed/successful builds to central db with web interface for query |
| 00:12.23 | bluelightning | JaMa: for failures, we have developed a new web-based error reporting system |
| 00:12.25 | JaMa | bluelightning: maybe you remember it also as tinderclient http://patches.openembedded.org/patch/477/ |
| 00:12.39 | bluelightning | (Andreea posted about it to the ml recently) |
| 00:12.51 | JaMa | bluelightning: ok, I'll check that as well, thanks |
| 00:13.04 | bluelightning | http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/error-report-web/ |
| 00:13.22 | JaMa | I need to extend it to collect more metrics about build times, sstate-reuse-ratio etc |
| 00:13.31 | bluelightning | coupled with meta/classes/report-error.bbclass |
| 00:13.47 | bluelightning | Michael is in the process of setting up an instance on yoctoproject.org as we speak |
| 00:14.09 | JaMa | great I'll test it as well |
| 00:14.13 | bluelightning | yeah I vaguely recall tinderclient |
| 00:14.36 | JaMa | it would be better to base my work on this newer codebase and then we'll see if what I have would be valuable to contibute back |
| 00:15.05 | bluelightning | the immediate intention is to help people report failures, but there's definitely scope to expand it |
| 00:15.17 | bluelightning | needs sleep, g'night |
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| 03:53.44 | kergoth | https://twitter.com/SciencePorn/status/440693140270637057/photo/1 |
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| 07:38.02 | Noor | Hello all |
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| 09:10.32 | mckoan | good morning |
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| 09:47.52 | kroon | mckoan, morning |
| 09:47.58 | kroon | et all |
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| 10:36.59 | bluelightning | morning all |
| 10:49.22 | mckoan | hi bluelightning, all |
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| 11:08.58 | bluelightning | hi mckoan |
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| 14:08.27 | kroon | Will there be meeting minutes of the IRC meeting posted somewhere ? |
| 14:09.50 | bluelightning | kroon: we've been exceedingly bad at doing that recently, sorry... it's one thing I'm going to bring up at this meeting |
| 14:10.08 | bluelightning | kroon: I will try to ensure that we do post them properly this time |
| 14:10.19 | bluelightning | (and get some archives of previous minutes sorted out) |
| 14:12.27 | Crofton|work | I nede to ping ka6sox and get the mirror directory public |
| 14:12.35 | Crofton|work | and fix my uploading scrpt :) |
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| 14:36.32 | kroon | bluelightning, thanks |
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| 15:26.44 | Crofton|work | bluelightning, bot is up |
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| 15:26.54 | bluelightning | Crofton|work: thanks |
| 15:27.13 | Crofton|work | I'll be on the Advocacy call |
| 15:27.26 | Crofton|work | I nned to find someone from OE to attend that one in the future |
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| 16:19.26 | Crofton|work | bluelightning, can you remind the TSC meeting about http://openembedded.org/wiki/OEDAM |
| 16:19.38 | Crofton|work | I'll miss the beginning due to a lunch date |
| 16:23.20 | bluelightning | Crofton|work: will do |
| 16:23.26 | Crofton|work | thanks |
| 16:23.30 | Crofton|work | I am all messed up |
| 16:23.39 | Crofton|work | confused what day meetings are, when I go eat lunch |
| 16:23.41 | Crofton|work | etc |
| 16:23.49 | Crofton|work | bbiab |
| 16:24.03 | mckoan | Crofton|work: too much snow :-) |
| 16:24.11 | Crofton|work | yeah |
| 16:24.15 | Crofton|work | yesterday was a bust |
| 16:24.28 | Crofton|work | mckoan, you have any interest in Yocto Advocacy? |
| 16:24.36 | Crofton|work | talk to me when I get back |
| 16:25.05 | mckoan | Crofton|work: my brother is in Dallas and I couldn't believe when he told me that was snowing there :-| |
| 16:26.01 | mckoan | Crofton|work: what exactly does it mean? |
| 16:26.55 | mckoan | Crofton|work: maybe you are referring to my T-shirt? |
| 16:27.00 | mckoan | :-D |
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| 17:00.19 | RP | is here |
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| 17:02.02 | fray | I'm here as well.. (warning I've got a company meeting I'm attending in parallel.. so I might be a bit slow to respond) |
| 17:02.07 | bluelightning | is here |
| 17:02.10 | bluelightning | #startmeeting |
| 17:02.10 | Crofton-bot | Meeting started Tue Mar 4 17:02:10 2014 UTC. The chair is bluelightning. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. |
| 17:02.10 | Crofton-bot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. |
| 17:02.20 | bluelightning | #chair fray koen RP khem |
| 17:02.21 | Crofton-bot | Current chairs: RP bluelightning fray khem koen |
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| 17:03.20 | bluelightning | so the TSC / workgroup meeting has started |
| 17:03.25 | bluelightning | question to the whole channel - any topics you'd like to raise? |
| 17:03.46 | bluelightning | mean time, does someone else want to chair this time? |
| 17:04.11 | RP | bluelightning: you're doing such a good job ;-) |
| 17:04.37 | bluelightning | I wouldn't want to deprive anyone else though ;) |
| 17:04.51 | RP | bluelightning: its no problem :) |
| 17:05.05 | bluelightning | khem: koen: are you guys here? |
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| 17:06.25 | bluelightning | I'm guessing that's a no |
| 17:07.10 | bluelightning | oh well, I guess I'll chair but someone else can do it next time ;) |
| 17:07.21 | RP | bluelightning: fair enough |
| 17:08.13 | bluelightning | any topics to talk about or should I just start with the (short) list I put in the email? |
| 17:08.38 | fray | short list is fine with me |
| 17:08.57 | bluelightning | ok, so let's start with an overview of where we are in the release |
| 17:09.00 | RP | bluelightning: go for it |
| 17:09.03 | bluelightning | #topic OE-Core release status |
| 17:09.10 | bluelightning | RP: I'll hand this one to you ;) |
| 17:09.16 | RP | We're basically just before feature freeze |
| 17:09.34 | bluelightning | RP: for clarification, is it this sunday or friday? |
| 17:09.38 | RP | there are a couple of things I know are pending, the major one being the 3.14 kernel |
| 17:09.49 | RP | bluelightning: we can go with sunday |
| 17:10.27 | RP | we've got a few autobuilder issues so the merging has slowed down due to that, the issues are being worked upon |
| 17:11.09 | RP | Feature wise, we have done a lot of what we've planned, memory resident bitbake improvements are one area we've not done what I'd have liked but its too late in the cycle for that now |
| 17:11.20 | RP | There are also some patches around toaster I want to get cleaned up |
| 17:11.25 | RP | (and merged) |
| 17:11.37 | RP | Any questions on release status? |
| 17:11.55 | fray | other thing I'm aware of is the archiver refactor.. |
| 17:12.28 | RP | yes, that needs to get resolved |
| 17:12.28 | bluelightning | it kind of sounds like archiver didn't really work all that well before so I don't know whether that counts as feature work or bugfixing... |
| 17:12.58 | bluelightning | (I feel bad about saying it, but I never actually personally used it) |
| 17:13.37 | RP | we'll get that sorted out this week with any luck |
| 17:13.40 | fray | I believe Robert's changes will improve it.. it's something that i don't see used a lot.. but when it's used, it critical it works |
| 17:14.07 | bluelightning | it seems like a useful tool for compliance so I hope people would be able to make use of it |
| 17:14.15 | fray | yes... |
| 17:14.19 | bluelightning | (license compliance, that is) |
| 17:14.52 | fray | the SPDX stuff hasn't gotten much love this release either.. so I expect to spend time in the next release on that myself.. |
| 17:15.00 | fray | (speaking of license compliance work) |
| 17:15.29 | bluelightning | ok, so if there's nothing further on that, let's move on |
| 17:15.44 | bluelightning | #topic OE website / infrastructure |
| 17:16.13 | bluelightning | FYI, Michael has now done all the legwork to get us a fresh new machine for the layer index, and it's now up and running |
| 17:16.24 | fray | (and working very well) |
| 17:16.41 | bluelightning | so the OE layer index is now doing regular updates of the metadata (which wasn't working for the last few months) |
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| 17:17.31 | bluelightning | I'm going to try to look at extensions to it to produce a news feed from metadata updates over the next few weeks |
| 17:17.45 | RP | We should soon have an error reporting server |
| 17:18.08 | bluelightning | right, on yoctoproject.org - an instance of http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/error-report-web/ |
| 17:18.47 | bluelightning | which is the server side of meta/classes/report-error.bbclass / scripts/send-error-report in OE-Core |
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| 17:19.31 | RP | is looking forward to this |
| 17:19.32 | bluelightning | jackmitchell: is there an update on the OE website redesign? has anything happened since the last meeting? |
| 17:21.03 | bluelightning | FWIW I hope we're not still waiting for accounts / passwords to be set up... |
| 17:22.30 | bluelightning | ok, well if there's nothing further on infrastructure... ? |
| 17:23.44 | bluelightning | ok, moving on |
| 17:23.46 | bluelightning | #topic Bug blitz weekend |
| 17:24.27 | RP | I didn't really see any change in the number of patches |
| 17:24.28 | bluelightning | so 21-24 February was our last "bug blitz weekend" as khem titled it |
| 17:25.00 | bluelightning | indeed, I didn't see that much activity; I tried to be around and ask in this channel if anyone was working on things / needed help |
| 17:25.36 | RP | was also around a bit |
| 17:25.40 | fray | same here.. I didn't see much but was around |
| 17:26.24 | bluelightning | I'm not sure whether the problem was people wanting to help but not having time, not knowing where to start, or whether people just weren't that interested |
| 17:26.44 | bluelightning | any feedback would definitely be appreciated |
| 17:26.57 | fray | my case it's been time.. a few people who didn't know where to start I think we helped.. but that's a SMALL sample of everyone who contributes.. |
| 17:27.26 | pb_ | I had a half-hearted look at the bug list but didn't find any that I was all that excited about working on. |
| 17:27.30 | RP | I did spend some time on various things but I tend to spend a lot of time on bugs already :/ |
| 17:27.58 | bluelightning | I think the idea was to try to get new contributors or people who don't normally work on the core to get involved |
| 17:28.27 | fray | ya.. I think I saw one person ask who I hadn't seen (IRC) contributions from.. but that was it.. :( |
| 17:28.43 | bluelightning | I had hoped that employers who get value out of OE would allow time for their engineers to spend on this; I don't think that happened though |
| 17:28.58 | bluelightning | maybe the message didn't reach the right people on that front though |
| 17:29.19 | RP | well, Crofton and I will continue to mention this at advisory board meetings |
| 17:29.22 | pb_ | I think the issue with that is that the employers would want their people to work on something that does bring them at least some value, and a lot of the bugs that are currently open in bugzilla probably don't fall into that category. |
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| 17:30.01 | pb_ | and, of the ones that do, a lot of them are probably "too hard". |
| 17:30.15 | RP | pb_: you can look at the other way and consider that helping resolve a bug is a way of giving back something to the ecosystem that they derive some benefit from |
| 17:30.28 | bluelightning | right, I was basically going to say the same thing |
| 17:30.45 | bluelightning | we're kind of struggling to deal with the number of bugs we have atm unfortunately |
| 17:31.09 | fray | it's always a trade-off of features and bugs.. |
| 17:31.23 | fray | I hate to say it, but maybe the answer is when we get to the next release window.. we focus on bugs over features? |
| 17:31.39 | fray | (we -- the people who are being paid to work on OE) |
| 17:32.01 | bluelightning | I wouldn't object to that myself |
| 17:32.02 | RP | we're coming into the part of the cycle where we stabilise so hopefully that can help try and get the numbers down a bit |
| 17:32.14 | RP | its certainly something to think about |
| 17:32.59 | bluelightning | indeed |
| 17:33.50 | bluelightning | I'm guessing we probably shouldn't try to schedule another bug weekend until after this release's stabilisation |
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| 17:34.19 | RP | well, help with stabilisation is more than welcome! |
| 17:34.31 | mr_science | moin |
| 17:34.37 | bluelightning | hi mr_science |
| 17:34.47 | bluelightning | RP: right |
| 17:35.35 | bluelightning | but do we want to actually schedule another weekend at this meeting? |
| 17:35.38 | bluelightning | (I think the answer is no, for the moment) |
| 17:35.42 | RP | agreed |
| 17:35.44 | mr_science | is bumping the machine_kernel PR still the way to force a kernel rebuild to get into the image? |
| 17:36.05 | mr_science | that's from arago oe-classic, so my guess is probably not... |
| 17:36.13 | bluelightning | mr_science: if you make a material change to the kernel and build the image it should just happen automatically |
| 17:36.40 | mr_science | hmm, i had an existing image build and made my own defconfig |
| 17:36.57 | bluelightning | ok, so I guess we can move on |
| 17:37.12 | bluelightning | #topic OEDAM |
| 17:37.42 | mr_science | nmn, i just figured out what i was missing |
| 17:37.44 | bluelightning | so as Philip has announced, there's an OpenEmbedded Developer's meeting in the US, coinciding with the Embedded Linux Conference |
| 17:37.57 | mr_science | but i can't try it until i get home... |
| 17:38.09 | mr_science | is planning on attending |
| 17:38.19 | bluelightning | http://lists.openembedded.org/pipermail/openembedded-devel/2014-February/094241.html |
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| 17:39.00 | bluelightning | one of the things Philip wants to see (and I agree) is input from people making use of OE that we might not normally hear from |
| 17:40.10 | bluelightning | so if you're able to make it to Santa Clara after ELC, please sign up on the wiki page linked in the above message |
| 17:40.35 | fray | we need to probably remind people of this.. |
| 17:40.43 | fray | (mailing list or otherwise).. |
| 17:41.00 | mr_science | saw it on the list |
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| 17:41.32 | mr_science | i encouraged my supervisor to send the whole software team |
| 17:41.42 | bluelightning | mr_science: cool :) |
| 17:41.44 | mr_science | i guess we'll see... |
| 17:41.49 | RP | is hoping to be there |
| 17:42.00 | fray | I'm hoping to be there.. and perhaps a few co-workers at WR.. |
| 17:42.00 | bluelightning | I'm not sure if I'll make it; I've at least put in the request |
| 17:42.11 | fray | my request goes in later this week.. :) |
| 17:43.38 | mr_science | i will probably send myself... |
| 17:43.50 | mr_science | and oh, btw, i approve |
| 17:43.55 | bluelightning | :) |
| 17:44.07 | bluelightning | ok, so we're out of topics from my list, and we have 16 mins left, so anything else people would like to talk about? |
| 17:45.43 | fray | I just want to thank all of the contributors.. I havn't been following along as much in the day-to-day in this release cycle as I'd like.. but when I do -- it looks really good to me |
| 17:46.27 | RP | fray: I think the view is better when you're not at the coal face :) |
| 17:46.38 | fray | ya.. and I am at this point.. |
| 17:47.50 | RP | sees too many of the problems up close |
| 17:48.20 | fray | I'm not surprised there are issues.. just when I've gone in to "do something".. it's worked each time, or the problem has been known.. |
| 17:48.24 | fray | that to me is a good sign |
| 17:48.31 | fray | (from a quality standpoint) |
| 17:48.31 | RP | I do think OE has come a long way though and the adoption we're seeing in various places is a credit to the strengths of the project and the work people have put into it |
| 17:48.43 | fray | I agree completely |
| 17:48.53 | bluelightning | yep |
| 17:50.07 | bluelightning | I had a number of folks come up to the booth at FOSDEM and give their thanks for the work that everyone's doing |
| 17:57.00 | bluelightning | so, time check - 4 mins remaining |
| 17:57.14 | bluelightning | RP: worth talking about PRINC briefly? |
| 17:57.17 | bluelightning | #topic PRINC |
| 17:57.49 | RP | its deprecated, I plan to send out a patch making it a warning |
| 17:57.57 | RP | the PR server is much better at this kind of thing |
| 18:00.24 | bluelightning | right, a quick grep shows a lot of people still using it as we know |
| 18:00.40 | bluelightning | I think that's time |
| 18:00.44 | bluelightning | thanks all |
| 18:00.46 | bluelightning | #endmeeting |
| 18:00.47 | Crofton-bot | Meeting ended Tue Mar 4 18:00:46 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) |
| 18:00.47 | Crofton-bot | Minutes: oe/2014/oe.2014-03-04-17.02.html |
| 18:00.47 | Crofton-bot | Minutes (text): oe/2014/oe.2014-03-04-17.02.txt |
| 18:00.47 | Crofton-bot | Log: oe/2014/oe.2014-03-04-17.02.log.html |
| 18:01.01 | fray | thanks! |
| 18:04.59 | Crofton|work | back finally |
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| 18:05.26 | Crofton|work | I know I am late, but I would suggest try having a bug day during the week, and making a focused effort to help people fix bugs |
| 18:05.44 | Crofton|work | sort of a help people contribute focus |
| 18:06.51 | fray | thats the thing.. I'd like something like that as well, but I'm just not sure how to do it |
| 18:07.15 | bluelightning | Crofton|work: part of the weekend overlapped the week, I think changing the time alone isn't going to make much difference |
| 18:07.32 | Crofton|work | that is why I suggest a short time period |
| 18:08.06 | Crofton|work | even a bug 4 hours :) |
| 18:08.18 | Crofton|work | jsut to ahve people active in channel at a certain time |
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| 18:15.47 | pb_ | I don't think there was that much of a shortage of people in the channel during the previous bug weekends. I don't remember seeing a lot of folk looking for help and not finding it. |
| 18:16.29 | pb_ | I think the problem is more in getting new contributors enthused in the first place and I'm not sure that a 4-hour bug sprint would help all that much with this. No harm in trying it though. |
| 18:20.36 | Crofton|work | yeah, I am just looking for things we can try |
| 18:21.46 | Crofton|work | my thinking is we can get people to schedule some bug fixing time in small blocks and try to get a critical mass of activity |
| 18:25.21 | bluelightning | Crofton|work: I'm convinced that an important angle is to get people's employers behind the effort |
| 18:25.29 | Crofton|work | yep |
| 18:25.41 | Crofton|work | this is also why I suggest a short period :) |
| 18:27.53 | Crofton|work | Now I have an idea for what to ask the AB |
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| 20:03.36 | chouimat | morning |
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| 21:10.49 | JaMa | too late for TSC meeting, but for bug blitz weekend, I've spent most hours working on world build issues, because for me it was more important contribution even when it's not tracked in bugzilla |
| 21:11.38 | ant_home | JaMa: right, thx again |
| 21:12.24 | JaMa | :) |
| 21:13.37 | pb_ | right, I think that is probably more worthwhile than 90% of what is in bugzilla |
| 21:14.08 | ant_home | must be taking an awful lot of build-time... |
| 21:15.38 | JaMa | currently around 24hours per arch |
| 21:15.55 | JaMa | when there is some major change like added space in do_package task :) |
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| 23:24.47 | kergoth | http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/03/critical-crypto-bug-leaves-linux-hundreds-of-apps-open-to-eavesdropping/ huh |
| 23:26.40 | ant_home | kergoth: worse than A$$le ssl bug? |
| 23:27.14 | ant_home | ah, second line ;) lol |
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