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| 00:34.30 | chacko | Hi, how does ipkg decide which feeds to check when an ipkg update is done? I am trying to test, eno's new feed .../feeds/optware/slugosbe/cross/unstable. Even though the config has only that one feed, update tries ..../cross/stable first and then unstable. Of course the former does not exist, and errors out. Any ideas? |
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| 03:12.08 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4923 10optware/trunk/ (Makefile make/ntop.mk): ntop: stripped plugins/*.so, gcc4 cross compilation working on slugosbe |
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| 08:28.36 | Jollino | hello |
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| 15:58.27 | CIA-8 | 03oleo * r4931 10optware/trunk/make/ (sdl.mk snownews.mk xfixes.mk xrender.mk): bounce ipk to force uClibc rebuild |
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| 19:23.25 | CIA-8 | 03oleo * r4934 10optware/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): rrdtool: disable -std=gnu99 for uClibc |
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| 19:45.02 | NAiL | morning likewise |
| 19:45.29 | likewise | NAiL: morning NAiL. Just replaced my caps, still the same boot problems here though; harddisk won't spin. |
| 19:47.11 | NAiL | hmm |
| 19:47.15 | NAiL | what PSU are you using? |
| 19:47.34 | NAiL | And does it spin up if you remove the IDE-cable? |
| 19:52.16 | likewise | 60W which came with a ITX casing for the EPIA. |
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| 19:53.21 | likewise | no same problem, sometime the hd starts to spin, then suddenly the 12 volts goes down to 11 or 10 and it stops |
| 19:53.38 | NAiL | ah |
| 19:53.49 | NAiL | I had the same problem when I was using a 60W |
| 19:53.59 | NAiL | the spike is too high for the PSU to handle |
| 19:54.07 | NAiL | using a 2.5" hdd worked fine for me |
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| 19:59.00 | CIA-8 | 03oleo * r4936 10optware/trunk/make/snownews.mk: snownews: strip target binary |
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| 20:04.00 | chacko | Hi oleo, ru there? |
| 20:04.21 | *** join/#nslu2-linux DrZimmerman (n=theo@80-218-47-21.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:08.03 | NAiL | likewise: 3.5" hdd's tend to suck a ginormous amount of power when spinning up, unfortunately. |
| 20:08.18 | NAiL | I believe there's a watt-calculator over at mini-box.org or something |
| 20:09.11 | DrZimmerman | NAiL: hehe there are discs that have a jumper setting to limit the current, but these are often enterprise grade discs in big servers |
| 20:09.21 | NAiL | yeah |
| 20:09.38 | DrZimmerman | and most often scsi |
| 20:09.47 | NAiL | and some support delaying spin-up, to avoid 20+ disks spinning up at the same time :) |
| 20:09.50 | chacko | Nail: I have one of the power meters, it is called Kill A Watt. Is that what you were referring to? |
| 20:09.53 | DrZimmerman | hehe jep |
| 20:10.18 | NAiL | chacko: no, I was talking about a web-based calculator thingy. |
| 20:10.21 | DrZimmerman | and burn the psu :) |
| 20:10.25 | NAiL | exactly |
| 20:10.48 | DrZimmerman | wow |
| 20:10.59 | NAiL | I probably don't use more than ~100W when powering up |
| 20:11.17 | likewise | NAiL: The drive reads 0.5A@12V and 0.6A@5V, so 9 Watts (not counting power-up peaks) |
| 20:11.20 | NAiL | After that, I guess the power is somewhere between 40-70W |
| 20:11.29 | DrZimmerman | i have a dec vax machine with big (very big) discs and it sucks only 900W at normal, i'm curious how much it sucks when the discs are spinning up :) |
| 20:11.59 | NAiL | likewise: yeah, some of my drives claim that too. But I know for sure that some of my drives pull 35+W when spinning up. |
| 20:12.00 | DrZimmerman | likewise: the spinup is then probably between 15-40Watts |
| 20:12.23 | DrZimmerman | likewise: but these are often only ms peeks |
| 20:12.33 | chacko | It is a function of how fast the disk spins up. The older big drives takes a bit of time to spin up, so the increase in power is not as drastic as the newer ones. |
| 20:12.35 | DrZimmerman | but can trigger a psu shutdown :) |
| 20:12.46 | DrZimmerman | yep |
| 20:13.50 | likewise | strange thing is, if the drive spins up OK (for 20 secs or so), the 12 rail drops to 11 or 10. |
| 20:14.50 | chacko | nail: who maintains the optware feeds for unslung? Are you the one? |
| 20:15.10 | NAiL | chacko: nope |
| 20:15.27 | NAiL | I do mess around with them from time to time |
| 20:17.00 | chacko | I was thinking about how to automate the bootstrap of the optware feed for slugosbe -- the initial ddwon load abd install of ipkg-opt. |
| 20:17.50 | likewise | I am going to use my big ATX PSU 12 Volts to drive the PSU in the EPIA... |
| 20:19.18 | chacko | For slugosbe all we need to do is to put the ipkg-opt.pak in the regular slugos/be native feed, and then install that... |
| 20:20.19 | NAiL | likewise: haha |
| 20:21.19 | Jollino | is anyone fluent in init.d scripts on unslung here? :) |
| 20:21.50 | chacko | jollino: I have used them, modified them some time ago... |
| 20:23.08 | Jollino | chacko: i made two, one for my self-written irc bot (which works perfectly) and one for tor; the one for gets executed (i confirmed it by having it write on a file and checking it after boot), but it just does not run tor. i tried both giving the full path and by issuing a cd to its directory and then having it launch ./tor... |
| 20:23.18 | Jollino | it seems that tor isn't run at all, because i have no traces of the boot time in its logs :( |
| 20:25.29 | Jollino | am i missing something? |
| 20:28.08 | chacko | jollino: both of you running the same vers of unslung? I think we need to do a full path in all executables, that is how I have done. |
| 20:28.39 | Jollino | both of me? i'm one. :) |
| 20:29.19 | chacko | What is tor? thought it was another person :( |
| 20:29.34 | Jollino | tohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_%28anonymity_network%29 |
| 20:29.36 | Jollino | this :) |
| 20:29.37 | Jollino | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_%28anonymity_network%29 |
| 20:31.06 | likewise | NAiL: My big PSU can provide 15A@12V, so I tried using it as my external PSU. Same problem. So it seems my internal (12V -> ATX) PSU is broke. |
| 20:31.19 | likewise | broken, rather |
| 20:32.06 | chacko | jollino: perhaps you can open a private channel to me and then post both the scripts, I can take a look -- no promises :) |
| 20:32.50 | Jollino | a query? |
| 20:34.45 | chacko | jollino: on my icechat it is DCC->chat and then select my nickname |
| 20:35.18 | Jollino | oh, alright, a dcc |
| 20:35.31 | chacko | jollino: for some reason I cannot open private channels to you, but I have had others connect to me... |
| 20:36.27 | NAiL | likewise: Does the board boot up fine if you connect your "large" psu to it? |
| 20:36.35 | likewise | NAiL: yes |
| 20:36.41 | NAiL | ok |
| 20:36.58 | NAiL | the 60W one is probably not feeling very well then :-P |
| 20:37.05 | Jollino | chacko: i have some problems offering DCCs too. how about a 'normal' query, or even a temporary channel? :) |
| 20:37.23 | likewise | NAiL: seems the internal PSU cannot provide enough power (on the 12 line presumably), I think the 60W external PSU is fine though. |
| 20:37.58 | chacko | jollino: I am willing to try, i have very limited experience with irc... |
| 20:38.18 | Jollino | chacko: please join #jollinochacko for the time being |
| 20:40.01 | NAiL | likewise: the power brick is probably ok. The 12V->ATX sucks if it's the same as mine :-\ |
| 20:40.30 | likewise | NAiL: Morex Procase D2D v2.0.1 |
| 20:40.43 | NAiL | hmm |
| 20:40.56 | NAiL | Can't remember what the PSU was named. It sucked though :-P |
| 20:40.59 | likewise | NAiL: probably I will go for a picoPSU then |
| 20:41.26 | likewise | NAiL: comes in handy for the EFIKA (in car) project as well :-) |
| 20:42.38 | CIA-8 | 03oleo * r4937 10optware/trunk/make/snownews.mk: snownews: reconfigure if snownews.mk changes |
| 20:44.09 | NAiL | I'm looking at building a carpc later as well |
| 20:44.19 | NAiL | The voompc enclosure looks very nice |
| 20:45.08 | NAiL | together with a 7" touchscreen, accelerometers, gps, 802.11, gsm/gprs, bluetooth ;) |
| 20:47.17 | Jollino | tomtom on steroids? ;) |
| 20:48.06 | NAiL | I'm looking for good accelerometers, but I can't find any with high resolution |
| 20:49.15 | NAiL | It'd be fun with proper datalogging ;) |
| 20:50.44 | NAiL | I won't be buying it until after I buy a new car though :-P |
| 20:51.06 | NAiL | Saving up for a car that is a bit newer than my '86 Ford ;) |
| 20:53.47 | *** join/#nslu2-linux mwester (n=mwester@nslu2-linux/mwester) |
| 20:58.07 | DrProlog | NAiL: what OS do you plan to run on that carputer? |
| 21:00.31 | NAiL | Linu |
| 21:00.32 | NAiL | x |
| 21:01.28 | DrProlog | is there any good software for it on linux? on windows they have road runner, etc, etc.. |
| 21:01.36 | NAiL | gps software? Hardly. |
| 21:02.37 | NAiL | I heard something about Garmin hiring linux devs not long ago though |
| 21:02.47 | NAiL | might be interesting |
| 21:05.51 | NAiL | https://my.garmin.com/iRecruitment/jobdetails.htm?vacancyId=265 infact |
| 21:41.09 | likewise | What is a "cumulative GPA" in this vacancy? |
| 21:41.54 | likewise | In The Netherlands, in the MSc. program we get ranks from 0 to 10, 10 highest, for each course. |
| 21:42.28 | rwhitby | I think GPA of 4.0 is top in the US. |
| 21:59.00 | likewise | rwhitby: thanks. not that I was soliciting. :-) |
| 22:00.33 | chacko | Some U's in US have a 5.0 max based gpa also. |
| 22:01.46 | chacko | rwhitby: Who is doing the bootstrap installation of the ipkg-opt for the new slugosbe optware stream? |
| 22:02.44 | likewise | chacko: so then a 3.0 average is not that good :-) |
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| 22:03.01 | rwhitby | chacko: dunno |
| 22:03.44 | chacko | likewise: but most often it is 4.0 max, and 3.0 for that is considered a B, where A is the top. |
| 22:05.31 | likewise | I have always wondered what my MSc degree and marks are worth in the US. I'm above 75% for my facultative (i.e. specialization) courses, and quite random between 60% and 100% for my other courses. |
| 22:05.36 | chacko | rwhitby: I know eno is doing the cross build stream. Who should I ask? I have some ideas for automating the intial install of the new pkg. I have experimented with a manual bootstrapping, it appears to be working. |
| 22:06.21 | likewise | With HopsNBarley on the Angstrom build, will this mean we will target PowerPC's as well? |
| 22:06.51 | NAiL | Likewise ain't the only one who will work on ppc ;) |
| 22:06.54 | NAiL | urhm |
| 22:06.58 | NAiL | HopsNBarley |
| 22:07.20 | likewise | Well, the IXP42x seems more popular so far. |
| 22:07.38 | likewise | NAiL: but I know there are some who have PPC devices :-) |
| 22:07.45 | rwhitby | likewise: we'll be doing Angstrom for NAS devices, not specifically ixp4xx |
| 22:07.59 | rwhitby | (we already have Optware targets that are PPC, for instance) |
| 22:09.37 | chacko | likewise: There is no easy direct translation. For university admissions, each university have their own translation, depending on where the degree si from. The same 75% from a top University might be considered a gpa of 3.5 or even 4.0. For example when I graduated from engineering in India, that year there were only 2 out of 1200 who got about 70%... So the grading curve has to be normalized. |
| 22:09.49 | NAiL | likewise: yeah. PPC is nice ;) |
| 22:12.40 | chacko | For slugosbe optware, there is already a ipkg-opt.pak. With some minor modifications, if we put that package in the native stream of slugos/be, then just doing an ipkg install of ipkg-opt can be made to setup optware ipkg installation. |
| 22:14.49 | chacko | likewise: I was a Prof at Berkeley long time ago :) |
| 22:15.00 | rwhitby | chacko: we won't be doing that - too easy for someone who doesn't understand what they are doing to install that package by mistake |
| 22:15.25 | rwhitby | wget <bootstrap location>/.ipk, then ipkg install foo.ipk is the way that we do bootstrapping. |
| 22:16.16 | likewise | chacko: I should see which US institute accredited the MSc program I followed. Might come in handy when I move abroad. |
| 22:18.16 | chacko | rwhitby: once people have tried the new stream out and it is working ok, what is the the risk of making the newstream just like the native stream. The only minor problem is that the same pkg may be available from two streams --- but I think that can be address almost like people trying back versions of a pkg. Rod, what is the risk you envision? |
| 22:21.35 | chacko | likewise: Usually the normalization or translation is not formalized or published. Each dept establishes own private guidelines based on the students they have seen previously from a foreign university. If you have a good feeling for the relative standing of your university with respect to the top us schools, then perhaps I can make a guess :) |
| 22:23.17 | rwhitby | chacko: what is wrong with the two command version I just wrote? It's a suitable barrier to weed out the users who cannot even set their PATH correctly to get to the existing ipkg command. |
| 22:23.51 | rwhitby | The risk is user confusion. And that is risk enough not to do what you are suggesting. |
| 22:26.27 | chacko | rwhitby: there is nothing wrong or too complicated about the version given. I think once you get familiar with this, and nobody comes up with some potential risk problems, my view is that this is no dfferent than two streams like a native build, and cross build. The easier we make things, provided there is no risk, the better it is for users, IMHO. |
| 22:27.11 | rwhitby | chacko: 2.5 years of experience with this community says otherwise. |
| 22:28.08 | rwhitby | the difference between the two streams case is that those two streams do not contain the same packages. |
| 22:28.13 | chacko | whitby: That is good enough reason to proceed with caution :) I respect your experience :) |
| 22:28.53 | rwhitby | the confusion is exactly caused by there being two versions of the same package available for the one firmware distribution, and the interactions between packages from different feeds. |
| 22:29.19 | rwhitby | e.g. what happens if someone installs a package that wants to use port 80 from *both* feeds? |
| 22:29.41 | rwhitby | (i.e. apache from slugos and apache from optware/slugosbe) |
| 22:29.44 | chacko | Yes, I do not yet know fully what interaction problems will be there... There is a possibility. |
| 22:30.40 | rwhitby | so someone has to do something out of the ordinary (the wget, ipkg sequence) to make them realise they are doing something non-standard. |
| 22:31.30 | rwhitby | it's called a "small barrier to entry" |
| 22:31.48 | chacko | Well, the way I see it is, the paths will be setups such as ...:/usr/sbin:/opt/sbin so if it is available in the native stream, that will get used, otherwise the optware version. |
| 22:32.04 | NAiL | chacko: Believe me. rwhitby is right when he talks about the community. |
| 22:32.39 | chacko | nail: I am not questioning that at all :) |
| 22:32.53 | rwhitby | chacko: we can't even get optware users to set their path correctly with one feed. who knows what will happen with two feeds. |
| 22:33.26 | rwhitby | hence the small barrier to entry. you're just gonna have to live with typing an extra command, cause that's how it's gonna be. |
| 22:34.06 | chacko | rwhitby: I am not thinking about me, I have alreay done that :) |
| 22:35.17 | NAiL | we simply doesn't want it to be "dead simple". "Dead simple" incurs a lot of support headaches. |
| 22:35.34 | chacko | nail: I understand |
| 22:37.03 | rwhitby | NAiL: ah, but we have chacko in the channel now to handle all the support headaches :-) |
| 22:37.42 | NAiL | While I'd like it to be just "ipkg install optware-support" or something like that since I know what I'm doing, somewhere between 90-95% of the users probably don't. |
| 22:41.50 | chacko | Hey, in almost all places I was, I was the most cautious person; I have a lot of grey hair :) |
| 22:43.55 | chacko | The reason I stuck with unslung for a long time, instead of trying slugos was that I thought linksys/cisco will erect enough cautions barriers instead of the possible uncontrolled changes in the other area :) |
| 22:50.12 | chacko | Another topic: where is the setting to change the slugos/be boot to go from the current turned up disk partition, say /dev/sda1 to use another partion /dev/sda2? I am saving multiple copies of my boot drive image for experiments. |
| 22:51.13 | chacko | I assume this boot startup drive setting is one in the flash somewhere? |
| 22:51.21 | marceln | rwhitby: Is it possible to change "openembedded/packages/linux/unslung-kernel/defconfig" so that the "pwc" module is build? |
| 22:51.22 | marceln | I have build it and get a "kernel-module-pwc_2.4.22.l2.3r63-r16_ixp4xxbe.ipk" so that could be useful for the next release. |
| 22:53.06 | rwhitby | marceln: it is, but I thought there was a pwc package that was more recent than the in-kernel module ? |
| 22:53.25 | chacko | Hi marceln: ! |
| 22:53.29 | rwhitby | chacko: /initrd/linuxrc |
| 22:53.36 | rwhitby | use turnup to change it |
| 22:54.07 | marceln | $ ipkg list | grep pwc |
| 22:54.07 | marceln | setpwc - 1.1-1 - Set and list settings of WebCams with the 'PWC chipset' |
| 22:54.17 | marceln | I can't find a kernel module for it. |
| 22:55.08 | rwhitby | marceln: have a chat to mwester about changing the defconfig |
| 22:55.29 | chacko | rwhitby:I thought of using turnup to do it. But here is my paranoia... I do not know what else turnup might change. But if I can do this manually, I can confine it to things I know :) See I am extra cautious :) |
| 22:55.35 | marceln | Oke. |
| 22:58.25 | chacko | rwhitby: ok I see the /initrd/linuxrc line. For the boot to change, I will have to do this change, when booted without any disk, right? |
| 23:00.52 | rwhitby | chacko: have a read of the turnup script |
| 23:01.56 | chacko | Is there any reference where I can readup on this? Is the UUID used by the booter? Eventually I want to make a script which will on next boot use /dev/sdaN. Where is the turnup script located? |
| 23:02.37 | chacko | sbin/turnup on the disk? |
| 23:06.15 | chacko | rwhitby: Thanks! It looks like turnup already has exactly what I want. I just need to get comfortable with it :) Thanks again. |
| 23:40.20 | NAiL | night all |