| 00:00.03 | eno | kinda like fink and darwinports on mac os x |
| 00:00.10 | eno | or sunfreeware on solaris |
| 00:00.20 | chacko | Eno, my problem is trying to get clear on build time, and user time... Are you talking about this only for when you build the pkgs, or for the users like me who would use the pkgs you built from a future new stream? |
| 00:00.45 | eno | at this point, only at build time |
| 00:01.33 | chacko | Let us assume you do your proposed 'simple' method for build time. How do you see that work for a user at opkg install time? |
| 00:01.48 | eno | for files or symlinks outside of /opt, it's very hard to say whether it's the responsibility of openslug packages or optware packages |
| 00:02.32 | eno | any optware perl packages should use /opt/bin/perl |
| 00:02.43 | eno | any optware python packages should use /opt/bin/python |
| 00:03.00 | eno | and so on and so forth |
| 00:03.16 | eno | optware should be as self-contained as possible |
| 00:04.04 | chacko | So, let us say, I as an opkg user of perl on slugosbe, will make a symbolic link of /bin/usr/perl to the /opt/bin/perl manually ? |
| 00:04.37 | eno | you don't have to, and usually you don't need to |
| 00:05.39 | eno | you can refer to /opt/bin/perl explicitly, or have /opt/bin in the PATH before /usr/bin |
| 00:05.50 | chacko | So when I type perl on command line, if no regular perl was not available, it would have automatically picked up /opt/bin/perl, since /opt/bin will be in the path after /bin? |
| 00:06.37 | eno | if you want to be absolutely sure about which perl you're using, you should use explicit /opt/bin/perl |
| 00:08.12 | chacko | My view of the usecase for the new opkg pkgs is like this: When one needs perl, he will try to ipkg install perl, and if it is available, done. If not, |
| 00:08.12 | eno | whether you set PATH to /opt/bin:/usr/bin or /usr/bin:/opt/bin is your choice |
| 00:08.33 | eno | in your case, you should set /usr/bin:/opt/bin |
| 00:09.01 | chacko | he will check if opkg perl is available, and then try to install opkg perl. By setting the path to /usr/bin:/opt/bin, the right pkg will be picked up. |
| 00:09.43 | eno | but remember, other user maybe different, some user may require specifically perl 5.8.8, or optware only perl module package |
| 00:10.01 | eno | in that case, he/she might want to set /opt/bin before /usr/bin |
| 00:11.03 | eno | so do you think OPTWARE_TRESPASS_ALLOWED conveys the meaning well enough for other optware developer to understand? |
| 00:13.18 | chacko | In those rare cases, when a user wants to use an opkg perl, even when an ipkg perl is available, yes, those users can manually call the specific /opt/bin one, or put simbolic links... My recommendation to strongly suggest to the users, that they use the native (ipkg) pkgs whenever available, and use the optware only when they are not available. In the case of apache and php, apache was available under ipkg too, but since it inter |
| 00:15.06 | eno | i don't share the view that optware pkgs are not "native" |
| 00:15.53 | eno | when the new optware/slugosbe feed is up, all will be build with the exactly the same toolchain |
| 00:15.55 | chacko | I understand... I used the word native only to distinguish the two sets here for explantion, |
| 00:16.54 | eno | right |
| 00:17.40 | eno | some healthy competition is good |
| 00:17.59 | eno | for both openslug packages and optware |
| 00:18.21 | chacko | So if you use your proposed scheme, then it would be nice to have two additional stuff: (1) before install give a msg when it needed to tresspass outside /opt/ since it will not do that and (2) after install list all the ones tresspasses it did not do!! |
| 00:20.20 | chacko | Just getting a complete detailed lists of the paths that I need to test manually, will reduce the potential for erros significantly... |
| 00:20.28 | chacko | Do you like to talk on the phone? |
| 00:21.25 | eno | i should've made myself more clear, i simply want to forbid trespassing on optware/slugosbe |
| 00:21.48 | eno | and keep the trespassing behavior as is for optware/unslung |
| 00:22.31 | eno | i can search all the pkg.mk files for any trespassing |
| 00:23.31 | eno | and since i don't offer trespassing, i may not please all the users, but at least i won't offend any |
| 00:23.45 | chacko | Eno, I did understand that. What I am suggesting is, since under those conditions it would be an 'incomplete install' compared to the unslung install, WE NEED TO LIST THOSE INCOMPLETE ONES RIGHT THERE. Otherwise, it woulf be difficult for most mortals to do this easily :) |
| 00:25.17 | eno | i don't think we should consider optware/unslung trespassing behavior standard, rather it should be the exception |
| 00:25.17 | chacko | Yes, you prevent some harm being done... But an incomplete install is a similar harm for the one who is trying to istall it, no? |
| 00:25.47 | chacko | I assume there will two feeds, and slightly different step or name to install using your new feed? |
| 00:25.58 | eno | the installation is complete without /usr/bin/ stuff |
| 00:26.09 | eno | yes |
| 00:27.32 | eno | it will be an entirely separate feed called optware/slugosbe |
| 00:27.32 | chacko | You think of the installation as just the pkgs and files, I consider everything done by the ipkg install (including the symbolic links setups, etc) as part fo the isntall :) That is where we a different view, I think. |
| 00:28.20 | eno | the optware/slugosbe has three bootstrap options: |
| 00:28.34 | eno | 1. from a special openslug package |
| 00:29.05 | chacko | continue |
| 00:29.05 | eno | 2. a bootstrap shell script like ds101-bootstrap |
| 00:29.15 | eno | 3. manual feed setup |
| 00:29.24 | chacko | I have no idea bout 2. :( |
| 00:29.59 | eno | think of 2 as the automation of 3 |
| 00:30.04 | chacko | Do you see the need for a user to get at the time of install, the 'prevented' tresspasses? |
| 00:30.13 | eno | no |
| 00:30.16 | eno | :-) |
| 00:30.58 | chacko | Some pgk may have tens or hundres of symbolic links needed for proper operation !! |
| 00:30.58 | eno | they only need /usr/bin/env which is provided by openslug already |
| 00:31.42 | eno | tens or hundreds of symlinks are maintenance nightmares |
| 00:32.10 | chacko | You look at a pkg like the netpbm? |
| 00:32.21 | eno | if you can give an example, i maybe can give you a counter-example as how to workaround the need of that many symlinks |
| 00:32.41 | chacko | Most development pkgs have similar situation |
| 00:33.37 | chacko | Are you against listing those 'incompletes' because it is difficult for you to do, or you do not see any value for the user? |
| 00:34.09 | eno | i have not seen enough value for the users, it's also not easy to do |
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| 00:36.45 | chacko | As a user, I will be hardpressed to try a pkg install, if I do not not even know the some links are not allowed, and not done under some condition, but do not know which. Perhpaps some clever guy will write a script, which will compare the unslug install list and the slugosbe install list, and show the diff. I HOPE! |
| 00:37.47 | eno | if you setup your PATH correctly, why do you need symlinks? |
| 00:38.18 | eno | i'm looking at openslug netpbm package file list right now |
| 00:38.28 | chacko | I think the problem can be simplified, if you push this no tresspass test to run time!! |
| 00:38.55 | eno | i don't understand why you need symlinks for netpbm |
| 00:41.52 | chacko | All those /usr/bin/xxx are symlinks to netpbm, in my install here. |
| 00:43.15 | chacko | Doing this at run time should be relatively easy (? my guess :) ) since you have complete control over the pkg install software for this stream ?? |
| 00:43.21 | eno | then if we have an optware netpbm package, all /opt/bin/xxx are symlinks to /opt/bin/netpbm |
| 00:43.36 | eno | what is the problem? |
| 00:44.53 | eno | let me tell you, symlink files across different feeds will cause endless pains |
| 00:45.48 | eno | i don't want to solve a problem that does not really exist |
| 00:46.53 | chacko | I hope you are right that a problem does not exist. I really mean this :) |
| 00:47.37 | chacko | If there is a problem then we will find out, and eventually somebody will try to solve it ... |
| 00:48.01 | eno | i'll push this build time OPTWARE_TRESPASS_ALLOWED Makefile variable for now |
| 00:48.58 | eno | we'll reconsider the runtime option if there're enough feedback asking for it |
| 00:49.10 | chacko | BTW, the symblinks in netpbm, the way you mentioned, shoud work fine, since for me thoser exes will be picked up from the /opt/bin path ok. |
| 00:49.45 | chacko | OK, thanks. |
| 00:49.55 | eno | thanks for the discussion |
| 00:51.03 | chacko | The name OPTWARE_TRESSPASS_ALLOWED probably my be clearer with OPTWARE_WRITE_OUTSIDE_OPT_ALLOWED |
| 00:52.53 | chacko | So, how is the new build coming? Many problems? Good progress? |
| 00:53.46 | eno | ok, i'll use OPTWARE_WRITE_OUTSIDE_OPT_ALLOWED, it's longer but more explicit |
| 00:54.27 | eno | $ ls -l slugosbe/builds/*.ipk | wc -l |
| 00:54.27 | eno | 436 |
| 00:55.18 | chacko | What is the total under unslung (that is 436 out of howmany)?? |
| 00:55.27 | eno | when i checked in the OPTWARE_WRITE_OUTSIDE_OPT_ALLOWED change, we are ready to open the feed |
| 00:55.50 | eno | $ ls -l nslu2/builds/*.ipk | wc -l |
| 00:55.50 | eno | 677 |
| 00:55.55 | chacko | Wow!! Good job!! |
| 00:56.31 | eno | perl and thus all perl packages are not built for slugosbe |
| 00:57.00 | eno | that's 44 packages |
| 00:57.58 | chacko | I tried to open a DCC to you but does not work... Could you please try a private DCC to me? |
| 00:58.02 | eno | lot more can be fixed to build gradually by excluding -I/opt/include from CPPFLAGS |
| 01:01.43 | chacko | I saw your window, saw your msg, can you see my replies there? |
| 01:03.52 | chacko | Eno, still there? |
| 01:03.55 | eno | no |
| 01:04.30 | chacko | Hmm... I wonder I need to open any ports in my router/firewall? I am very new to irc... |
| 01:04.30 | eno | could be the network setting or irc client setting of either of us |
| 01:05.14 | eno | i'm not that familar with irc either, but i've used msg with others |
| 01:05.42 | eno | i'm chatting from irssi running on the slug |
| 01:06.01 | chacko | Thanks, I will check it out ... |
| 01:06.42 | chacko | When you have the feed open, please send me an email, you have my email address t4ch... |
| 01:06.54 | eno | alright, will do |
| 01:07.19 | chacko | And how to get started too, I am not very savvy with the feeds :) Thank you |
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| 01:38.24 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4827 10optware/trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): added OPTWARE_WRITE_OUTSIDE_OPT_ALLOWED, and set to true ONLY on nslu2 |
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| 04:28.01 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4828 10optware/trunk/make/gawk.mk: gawk: made to work for slugosbe |
| 04:59.06 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4829 10optware/trunk/make/py-sqlite.mk: py-sqlite: use $(HOST_STAGING_PREFIX)/bin/python2.4 for slugosbe |
| 05:06.00 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4830 10optware/trunk/make/mailman.mk: mailman: use $(HOST_STAGING_PREFIX)/bin/python2.4 for slugosbe |
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| 05:41.45 | CIA-8 | 03mwester * r643 10kernel/trunk/patches/2.6.20/88-dsmg600-dflt-cmdline.patch: dsmg600-setup: updated patch on 2.6.20 branch |
| 05:44.34 | CIA-8 | 03mwester * r644 10kernel/trunk/patches/2.6.19/series: series: Add via-velocity Big Endian patch back into 2.6.19 kernel. |
| 07:09.15 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4831 10optware/trunk/make/py-clips.mk: py-clips: -> 1.0.4.320; added py25 subpackage; working on slugosbe |
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| 07:25.16 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4832 10optware/trunk/make/py-mssql.mk: py-mssql: 0.7.4 -> 0.8.0; added py25 subpackage; working on slugosbe |
| 07:37.32 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4833 10optware/trunk/sources/py-mssql/setup.py.patch: py-mssql: 0.7.4 -> 0.8.0; added py25 subpackage; working on slugosbe |
| 07:38.40 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4834 10optware/trunk/make/ (5 files): a couple more py-: added py25 subpackage; working on slugosbe |
| 07:40.04 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4835 10optware/trunk/Makefile: marked SLUGOSBE_BROKEN_PACKAGES so far |
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| 08:59.35 | rwhitby | eno: good call on the prohibit overwriting outside of /opt thing. You're right - Optware should not overwrite SlugOS/BE. If we were *ever* to consider that, then the alternatives functionality would be the way to do it. |
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| 14:25.39 | marceln | Does anyone no why screen doesn't work as a normal user under unlsung 6.8? |
| 14:25.55 | marceln | I get an error "No more PTYs.". |
| 14:26.08 | marceln | It works fine as root. |
| 14:39.52 | kolla | sounds familiar |
| 14:40.50 | mwester | marceln: check permissions on the /dev/pty* entries? |
| 14:40.53 | marceln | Do you have the same error |
| 14:41.07 | kolla | marceln: I havent used unslung for years now.. :P |
| 14:41.25 | kolla | do as mwester says, I was about to suggest the same :) |
| 14:41.30 | marceln | $ ls -lad /dev/pty* |
| 14:41.30 | marceln | ls: /dev/pty*: No such file or directory |
| 14:41.34 | mwester | BTW: someone contributed the patch to turn on improvd pty handling for Unslung; it was just never included because nobody volunteered to test same. |
| 14:41.37 | marceln | No pty's |
| 14:42.18 | mwester | :o Ouch! |
| 14:43.15 | marceln | Sorry wrong host |
| 14:43.39 | marceln | crw-r--r-- 1 root root 2, 3 Jan 1 1970 /dev/ptyp3 |
| 14:44.54 | kolla | right.. |
| 14:45.19 | kolla | on my gentoo systems it is typically... |
| 14:45.20 | kolla | crw-rw---- 1 root tty 2, 3 2006-12-24 14:27 /dev/ptyp3 |
| 14:45.55 | kolla | as long as it is rw for a group that you're member of, it should work |
| 14:46.57 | marceln | Probably screen has some for of suid/sgid |
| 14:47.08 | marceln | DO you have screen installed |
| 14:48.07 | kolla | screen is g+s yes, and group is utmp |
| 14:48.24 | kolla | but again.. this is gentoo... |
| 14:48.56 | kolla | I can check openslug though... |
| 14:49.42 | kolla | there it's different :) |
| 14:49.44 | marceln | I checked the makefile of screen: |
| 14:49.44 | marceln | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:49.51 | kolla | crw--w---- 1 root tty 136, 0 Dec 26 15:49 /dev/pts/0 |
| 14:49.58 | kolla | and no pty's |
| 14:50.12 | marceln | Is a 2.6 kernel |
| 14:50.44 | marceln | The default makefile installs screen suid root! |
| 15:08.31 | CIA-8 | 03marceln * r4836 10optware/trunk/ (make/screen.mk sources/screen/postinst): OPTWARE: make screen suid root so that it will work as user |
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| 17:06.18 | eno | http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/DS101/MorePTYS ? |
| 17:07.54 | eno | i remember following the above instruction and got more PTYs on unslung |
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| 17:11.23 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4837 10optware/trunk/make/py-rdiff-backup.mk: py-rdiff-backup: correctly rm old ipk dir |
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| 17:25.44 | mwester | I think the DS101 URL instructions for more pty's requires the newer /dev/pts mechansim -- which is not enabled on Unslung. If someone is willing to test, I can try to find that info and get it turned on in Unslung's future releases. |
| 17:32.43 | mwester | Correction to my earlier statement: it appears that the newer /dev/pts mechanism *was* part of the build for Unslung 6.8 -- so following the instructions in the URL posted by eno *should* work on Unslung 6.8 as well. If someone can confirm that it works ok, and do a "burn-in" test for a while, I'll make that part of the next Unslung release. Seems trivial, just needs someone to test. |
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| 18:21.49 | CIA-8 | 03bzhou * r4839 10optware/trunk/make/py-xml.mk: py-xml: added py25 subpackage; made working on slugosbe |
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| 21:02.18 | rwhitby | http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2006/42/ <- NSLU2 story |
| 21:11.59 | mwester | ~seen [g2] |
| 21:12.06 | jbot | [g2] <n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2> was last seen on IRC in channel #openslug, 4d 3h 15m 24s ago, saying: 'jelle what happens when you type ls --color=auto ? '. |
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| 21:59.13 | NAiL | ~seen likewise |
| 21:59.41 | jbot | likewise <n=Leon_Woe@82-171-189-134.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 1d 3h 22m 51s ago, saying: '~seen flappie'. |
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| 22:52.33 | chacko | Hello |
| 22:53.52 | chacko | On slugos/BE, /proc/diskstats exist and show disk i/o summary here. On my unSlung6. there is diskstats, and nothing comparable... Any suggestions where this might be? |
| 22:54.37 | chacko | I meant: on unSlung, there is NO diskstats ... |
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